Selects: Cake: So Great. So, So Great

Cake has been around for a long time, but mostly less than great forms. It took the Industrial Revolution, the advent of plentiful sugar, and some good old American know-how to come together to make the cake we know and love today. Find out all about it in this classic episode. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Josh Clark?

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• 0:35Speaker 02

  With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One Bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends. It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com/bankguy. Capital One, N-A, Member FDIC. Hi, everybody. Do you want to learn about cake? It's called cake so great, so, so great. That had to be a Josh title. Cake, colon, so great, period, so, comma, so great. Yeah, that's Josh. This is from November 30th,

• 1:20Speaker 02

  2017. This is supersized because somehow we did 73 minutes on cake, probably because we talked about cake a lot. Beyond just the facts and figures, I know our personal opinions came around in this episode, so I hope you enjoy it as much as you enjoy pie.

• 1:44Speaker 00

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio.

• 1:53Josh Clark?

  Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and there's Charles W., Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry. The three of us are together, which means it's time for stuff you should know about cake.

• 2:04Speaker 03

  Cake, cake, cake, cake, cake, cake, cake, cake.

• 2:07Josh Clark?

  Cake, cake, cake, cake, cake. Cake.

• 2:12Speaker 03

  This made me just frankly want to put my face in a cake.

• 2:16Josh Clark?

  I know. Sheet caking?

• 2:18Speaker 03

  Oh, man.

• 2:19Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 2:20Speaker 03

  I know we had a discussion about cake or pie quite a while ago. I don't remember exactly where you landed on that.

• 2:26Josh Clark?

  I'm surprised you can only think of one.

• 2:29Speaker 03

  What do you, uh, one time we've done that?

• 2:30Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Uh, cake or pie? Both.

• 2:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, same here.

• 2:35Josh Clark?

  Why choose between two wonderful things that you don't have to choose between?

• 2:39Speaker 03

  Agreed.

• 2:41Josh Clark?

  As a matter of fact, every once in a while, you'll hit like the birthday party jackpot, where they'll have like cake and pie and you're like, "Looks like I'm in heaven." But today, Chuck, we're not talking about pie.

• 2:53Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:53Josh Clark?

  Although we can talk about one pie in particular, because we're talking about cake. Turns out, I saw this somewhere, that Boston cream pie is actually a cake.

• 3:03Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 3:03Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Surprise, Boston. Sorry to ruin your day.

• 3:07Speaker 03

  They're probably the ones that are like, that are saying that.

• 3:11Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, probably.

• 3:12Speaker 03

  Maybe, I don't know. So that's a cake, huh?

• 3:14Josh Clark?

  The article on it was written in a thick Boston accent.

• 3:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:20Josh Clark?

  Uh, yeah, it is a cake. I'm not sure why, but I just know it's a cake now. And I want to give a hat tip here. I mean, we both worked off of the How Stuff Works article, but I also found a lot of good stuff on a site called What's Cooking America. Did you run across them?

• 3:36Speaker 03

  I did.

• 3:37Josh Clark?

  They are good, man. They're, they have, you know, clearly their niche is cooking, baking, all things like culinary, but they're, they've got some really well researched articles on their site about like the history of cakes and things like that.

• 3:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's good stuff.

• 3:50Josh Clark?

  Kudos to you. You remember Kudos?

• 3:53Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 3:54Josh Clark?

  The granola bar? Those are great.

• 3:56Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Are those not around anymore?

• 3:58Josh Clark?

  No.

• 3:59Speaker 03

  No?

• 4:00Josh Clark?

  No, those are gone. And then RIP also Bonkers Candy.

• 4:04Speaker 03

  So Kudo went the way of the dodo. I never heard of Bonkers.

• 4:09Josh Clark?

  They were like a fruit chew, but like really had some chew to it, not like Starburst, you know, it just disintegrates. These were like... They were chewy. They were good. They're about as good as it gets really candy wise.

• 4:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, they need, I know you've noticed, they need to chill out here with the sweets at work.

• 4:25Josh Clark?

  Oh dude.

• 4:26Speaker 03

  Like they have Little Debbie Star Crunches and Swiss Cake Rolls and stuff all over the place.

• 4:31Josh Clark?

  I know.

• 4:32Speaker 03

  We don't need that in here.

• 4:33Josh Clark?

  There's like three or four people who are like walking around toothless now. It's just rotten right out of their heads.

• 4:40Speaker 03

  Well, and also.

• 4:42Josh Clark?

  Not you.

• 4:44Speaker 03

  My toothlessness is for different reasons.

• 4:46Josh Clark?

  Yours is from a crusty.

• 4:49Speaker 03

  And I've also noticed though, there's this weird mix in our office now, because they try to get super healthy.

• 4:55Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 4:55Speaker 03

  So there will be like Swiss Cake Rolls next to a bag of like clam chips or something.

• 5:00Josh Clark?

  What chips?

• 5:00Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 5:01Josh Clark?

  Clam chips sound kinda good.

• 5:03Speaker 03

  Seaweed, seaweed strips.

• 5:05Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I know what you mean. Or like just figs.

• 5:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:10Josh Clark?

  You know?

• 5:10Speaker 03

  It's like a Fig Newton without the good tasting part.

• 5:14Josh Clark?

  We take figs and we mash them up, then we wrap them in cellophane and you eat them for $5 apiece.

• 5:19Speaker 03

  And your child spits them out because they know better.

• 5:22Josh Clark?

  Right. No, today, yes, I'm with you. I do think it's gotten a little out of hand. Like it's basically just a huge test of willpower at the office like every moment, you know?

• 5:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't, I don't indulge. I'm not getting into those Swiss Cake Rolls, but it is tough to walk by the miniature candy bar section.

• 5:40Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 5:41Speaker 03

  And not be like, well, just one of those little guys. Look how tiny it is.

• 5:44Josh Clark?

  Right. And then the next thing you know, you've got like 10 wrappers laying around your desk thinking like, what have I done? I know, man.

• 5:50Speaker 03

  It's post Halloween stuff too, so maybe it'll die down.

• 5:53Josh Clark?

  I, I don't, I don't think that's gonna happen, but yeah. But again though, today, I guess if, if you replaced all of those candy bars with cakes that were just sitting around, you'd get zero complaints from me.

• 6:06Speaker 03

  Well, and at my house at Halloween, we gave away two things. We gave away whole slices of pound cake and just figs.

• 6:15Speaker 03

  It's the worst house in the block.

• 6:16Josh Clark?

  Did you, are you a pound cake fan?

• 6:21Speaker 03

  Not typically, like I would never order a pound cake or say, hey, can someone bake me one for my birthday?

• 6:28Josh Clark?

  You wouldn't say like, Clark me a pound cake?

• 6:30Speaker 03

  No, I would never ask someone to Clark me a pound cake, but occasionally, like in my life, someone has had pound cake and said, would you like some pound cake? And it's, you know, it's good, good sugary and dense stuff.

• 6:43Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I like it because you can just eat it with your hand.

• 6:47Speaker 03

  Sure, just pick it up and eat it.

• 6:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it's like cake on the go.

• 6:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, I am not a fan of lemon cakes.

• 6:54Josh Clark?

  Oh, really?

• 6:54Speaker 03

  So like a lemon pound cake, I'm not into.

• 6:58Josh Clark?

  Well, okay, let's just get it out there. What's your favorite cake of all time?

• 7:00Speaker 03

  Oh geez.

• 7:03Speaker 03

  Uh, I'm gonna toss it up between a carrot cake with cream cheese frosting.

• 7:10Josh Clark?

  That's Bill Clinton's favorite.

• 7:12Speaker 03

  Well, you know, as Bill goes, so goes Chuck, uh, which is not true.

• 7:21Josh Clark?

  That was a good COA.

• 7:23Speaker 03

  Uh, the carrot cake with cream cheese frosting or, um, I like a, a red velvet cake.

• 7:30Josh Clark?

  Really?

• 7:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:32Josh Clark?

  Well, that's the southern.

• 7:33Speaker 03

  Buttercream or cream cheese frosting.

• 7:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah, you go either way?

• 7:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, Emily's favorite of all time, hands down, is the Waldorf Astoria red velvet cake, which is red velvet cake with a frosting that is basically only like shortening vanilla and sugar.

• 7:52Josh Clark?

  Oh, that sounds nice.

• 7:53Speaker 03

  It's not a, a cream cheese thing. What's, what's your favorite?

• 7:56Josh Clark?

  Favorite of all time? Well, everybody knows that cake perfection was achieved sometime in the 20th century when Publix grocery stores started selling their yellow cake with buttercream frosting.

• 8:10Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah?

• 8:11Josh Clark?

  There's no better cake on the planet.

• 8:13Speaker 03

  It's like a yellow sheet cake?

• 8:14Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm. It's simple, but it's tasty. It doesn't need any dressing up, but if it does, we'll just put like some, add some more frosting in the shape of balloons on top, right? It's just, it's just perfection. It's a perfect cake. I love it. I can eat it morning, noon and night. I can eat stale stuff I found in the dumpster behind Publix. I can eat the fresh stuff right out of the oven, so hot that it burns my mouth. I would eat it any way that it was given to me.

• 8:42Speaker 03

  Uh, I'm a big frosting and icing guy, too. So a corner piece of sheet cake is pretty much heaven.

• 8:51Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's, that is the tops.

• 8:53Speaker 03

  What, what is Yumi's favorite cake?

• 8:55Josh Clark?

  Yumi's is actually the same as mine. We both are junkies for Publix cake, to tell you the truth. Although, I have to say, she introduced me to the wonder of Japanese cakes. And there's this little-known fact about Japan. It loves to take, I shouldn't say it's little-known, probably a lot of people know this, but it loves to take things that other cultures came up with and then improve them 10,000%. And one of the things that they've done that with is the French bakery. So if you go to Japan, you'll see all these cute little kind of Provence-style French bakeries everywhere that sell the best baked goods you've ever had in your life, right?

• 9:33Speaker 03

  Better than Paris?

• 9:34Josh Clark?

  Yes, oh, by far, by far.

• 9:36Speaker 03

  That's very controversial.

• 9:37Josh Clark?

  I, it is, but I'm telling you, you would, you would just be like, Josh was right. This is better. I'm not kidding. They've, they've improved on it. And they're all very, they're very deferential still. They're like, oh, well, this is, this is crap compared to what the French are making, however you would say that in Japanese. But they're actually wrong. It actually is better. But one of the things that they make that's just top-notch is this, what they call cheesecake. It is not what you or I would call cheesecake at all. It's more like a yellow, spongy cake. I don't know where the cheese thing comes in. Maybe there's a little cream cheese in there. I'm not quite sure. But you and I would call it like kind of a dense, yellow sponge cake. But it is very, very tasty.

• 10:19Josh Clark?

  And that's a kind of a Japanese tradition that I would guess Yumi would say is one of her favorites.

• 10:24Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 10:24Josh Clark?

  And just a little shout-out, there's a place in Tirana. Uh, next time we're there, I'm gonna take you there.

• 10:29Speaker 03

  All right.

• 10:30Josh Clark?

  Uh, actually, that's not true. I brought you a cake from there, from Uncle Tetsu's

• 10:34Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 10:35Josh Clark?

  Cheesecake bakery.

• 10:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:36Josh Clark?

  That's a Japanese cheesecake.

• 10:38Speaker 03

  Oh, that was good.

• 10:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah, they're the bomb.

• 10:41Speaker 03

  All I know is, get out of my face with any coconut or any pineapple.

• 10:45Josh Clark?

  I'll take that.

• 10:47Speaker 03

  You'll, you'll, I'll just slide that over to your desk then.

• 10:49Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 10:50Speaker 03

  Not into it.

• 10:50Josh Clark?

  Keep them coming.

• 10:51Speaker 03

  I don't even like German chocolate cake, really.

• 10:53Josh Clark?

  I love German chocolate.

• 10:55Speaker 03

  Alright, well.

• 10:56Josh Clark?

  Have, have you ever heard that German chocolate cake and red velvet cake are the same? It's actually not true.

• 11:02Speaker 03

  I haven't heard that.

• 11:03Josh Clark?

  I, I had heard that many times, it's not true. But that German chocolate frosting is like, man, that's good.

• 11:09Speaker 03

  I'm not into that. See, I think that's what it, that's what it is that I don't like. I like sort of a tradish, butter creamy, or just good old fashioned birthday cake icing type thing.

• 11:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 11:21Speaker 03

  Piped on.

• 11:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And, and surely you agree, Publix is the pinnacle of that.

• 11:26Speaker 03

  I don't know if I've ever had a Publix cake.

• 11:28Josh Clark?

  Oh.

• 11:28Speaker 03

  I go to Publix three times a week, so next time I'm just gonna...

• 11:31Josh Clark?

  Well, now that you say that, it might be best that you stay away.

• 11:34Speaker 03

  Well.

• 11:35Josh Clark?

  Because you're gonna start adding, they sell it by the slice, which is dangerous.

• 11:38Speaker 03

  Oh, they do? Cause that was, that's the only way I would wanna do it.

• 11:42Josh Clark?

  They sell it by the slice, Chuck.

• 11:43Speaker 03

  Like, I can't bring a whole cake in my house. It's foolhardy.

• 11:47Josh Clark?

  Be sure you look closely because they have, yeah, it would be. They, they sell also the same kind with like a cream cheese frosting. You want yellow cake with buttercream frosting.

• 11:56Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 11:57Josh Clark?

  Just give it a shot and let me know what you think.

• 11:59Speaker 03

  Alright, the funny thing is, we really haven't even started yet.

• 12:02Josh Clark?

  No, do you wanna take a break?

• 12:03Speaker 03

  No, let's, let's at least give out like three facts first.

• 12:06Josh Clark?

  Oh, okay. Well, I think we just gave a lot of facts about what the greatest cakes in the world are.

• 12:11Speaker 03

  Alright, how about this then? I'll start you out with the, the word cake. Apparently is an old Norse word, kaka, which is kinda funny.

• 12:20Josh Clark?

  It is.

• 12:21Speaker 03

  Cause here, I don't know where it came from, but here in America, kaka can mean doo doo.

• 12:25Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 12:25Speaker 03

  Uh, but K A K A is where the original word supposedly came from.

• 12:31Josh Clark?

  Right. Um, and a lot of English words have like Germanic or Norse origins. Did you know that?

• 12:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:37Josh Clark?

  So cake, the word cake is, is of English origin, so is bread. And apparently the bread and the cakes from back in the day, say during the medieval era, they were very, very similar. Probably the only difference was the cake might be slightly smaller.

• 12:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:56Josh Clark?

  And it was definitely sweeter. So cake was like a sweeter version of bread back then.

• 13:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, they'd add a little honey to it, but it's not like what we think of as cake today.

• 13:04Josh Clark?

  But that's not where the first cakes originate. They actually go way, way, way further back than that, right?

• 13:10Speaker 03

  Is that true?

• 13:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it's true.

• 13:12Speaker 03

  Tuk tuk?

• 13:13Josh Clark?

  Uh, that may be a little too far back.

• 13:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think so.

• 13:17Josh Clark?

  So, but basically around the time, um, I believe of Egypt, the pharaonic Egypt, they were making cakes using hot stones and honey and some sort of grain mashed up.

• 13:32Speaker 03

  Right. It seems like, I bet the Chinese were doing it too. Didn't say in here.

• 13:37Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 13:37Speaker 03

  But it seems like anytime you're talking about who did stuff first, it's like Egyptians, Chinese, Greeks and Romans.

• 13:44Josh Clark?

  Pretty much. I mean, you know, ancient civilization.

• 13:47Speaker 03

  But maybe not China, because it doesn't seem like a very cakey culture.

• 13:51Josh Clark?

  No, I'm not sure about Chinese cakes. I don't think I've ever had one.

• 13:55Speaker 03

  I bet you someone knows though. And I bet you there's, like one of the best things in the world is probably a Chinese cake.

• 14:01Josh Clark?

  You know, one of the other things too that I didn't realize that I learned from this article Chuck was that a lot of the cakes you see around the world that you would mistake for, you know, customary or traditional cakes or that culture, they're actually relatively new.

• 14:15Speaker 03

  Oh yeah?

• 14:15Josh Clark?

  That the cake that we know and love and understand is, is very much a 19th century American invention that came out of the Industrial Revolution.

• 14:25Speaker 03

  That's right. Uh, I mean, clearly like in Germany, like you talked about in the 15th century, they were making cakes. They were actually even serving cakes at birthdays. And by all accounts, that's probably the first people to start the birthday cake tradition. But, um, and I think they even put candles on top. Well, no, the Greeks put candles on top, but it wasn't like a... Happy birthday cake.

• 14:51Josh Clark?

  No.

• 14:51Speaker 03

  It was more like, hey, this cake is round like the moon. And we're gonna put candles on it to make them glow. And they're probably huge candles now that I think about it.

• 14:58Josh Clark?

  Yeah, the Greeks gave us the round cake and putting candles on the cake to honor Artemis. To make the cake look like the moon. And Artemis was the goddess of the moon, right?

• 15:08Speaker 03

  Right.

• 15:08Josh Clark?

  So they were like, look Artemis, what do you think of this cake? She'd be like, it needs some frosting.

• 15:13Speaker 03

  That's right. And then the Germans in the 1400s started doing birthday cakes. And then the 1700s were full on like, it's a kid's birthday party. It's got candles. It's a cake. And we'll sing some depressing German song.

• 15:28Josh Clark?

  Right. It makes you reflect on your own existence.

• 15:32Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 15:32Josh Clark?

  And its eventual end.

• 15:36Josh Clark?

  But there, so by the time that people were making birthday cakes in Germany, there was a long, long, long tradition of cakes already. And the word cake had started to originate in medieval Britain. But there was such a thing as a cheesecake already. The Romans created that and called it placenta. Seriously.

• 15:57Speaker 03

  Really?

• 15:58Josh Clark?

  Yeah. The Greeks had created something that was basically a prototype of the fruitcake. Plakus, I believe.

• 16:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, they called it feces.

• 16:06Josh Clark?

  Right. So there were all these kind of cakes and breads and things that were starting to be developed. And I think even that, that pound cake that you're not so hip on, came before the Industrial Revolution too.

• 16:21Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 16:22Josh Clark?

  So there's stuff that you would kind of recognize as cakes. But the idea of a cake, what Americans call a cake and know and love is a cake. That came out of the Industrial Revolution.

• 16:32Speaker 03

  The show sponsored by cake.

• 16:34Josh Clark?

  Cake. Eat some today.

• 16:36Speaker 03

  All right, so let's take a break. We definitely gave away more than three facts.

• 16:40Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 16:40Speaker 03

  We have earned our keep. And we're gonna come back and talk about a little chemistry right after this.

• 16:54Josh Clark?

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• 20:21Speaker 03

  All right, so we're back. And we promised talk of chemistry. And I think we talked about this briefly on one show. I have tried to bake. I did a birthday cake for Emily a couple of years ago, Red Velvet Waldorf Storya Cake. And it was okay. It wasn't pretty, though.

• 20:40Josh Clark?

  What do you mean? Like it was lopsided or there's a horn growing out of it?

• 20:44Speaker 03

  It just, you know, it didn't look like a cake you would buy in a store, but it tasted really good.

• 20:49Josh Clark?

  I'll bet it was made with a lot of love, too.

• 20:51Speaker 03

  Oh, of course. But my deal is, is I'm not a great baker because baking requires you to be very precise with your ingredients because it is chemistry. I'm a much better cook.

• 21:04Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 21:04Speaker 03

  Because I'm a fly by the seat of my pants and throw a little of this in there, throw a little of that in there. And there's a much-

• 21:10Josh Clark?

  Can't do that with-

• 21:11Speaker 03

  No, there's much more forgiveness in general cooking than baking.

• 21:14Josh Clark?

  Yeah, cooking's an art. Baking is a science, for sure.

• 21:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's what they say, right?

• 21:18Josh Clark?

  Yeah, well, that's what I say, too.

• 21:20Speaker 03

  Even though you didn't make that up, right?

• 21:22Josh Clark?

  I think I did.

• 21:22Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 21:23Josh Clark?

  So with a, with a cake, right? What you're doing is producing a chemical reaction. And I knew that.

• 21:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:31Josh Clark?

  But I, I had no idea on this granular level that this article gets into. Just how much of a chemical reaction baking a cake is.

• 21:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, and this helps.

• 21:41Josh Clark?

  It's pretty neat.

• 21:41Speaker 03

  The understanding of it too, to me.

• 21:43Josh Clark?

  So you want to start with a leavening agent, right?

• 21:47Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 21:47Josh Clark?

  That's how you get from batter, which is kind of flat and soupy and wet, to a nice tall cake. The reason it rises is because of a leavening agent. And way, way, way back in the day, they used to use yeast.

• 22:01Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:02Josh Clark?

  They used yeast for everything. They would make some beer, they would make a cake, they'd make some bread.

• 22:06Speaker 03

  They would throw it into the eyes of their enemy.

• 22:09Josh Clark?

  They would, in a fight. A dirty fight. And then eventually yeast kind of fell to the wayside a little bit as they realized that there's other ways to make a cake rise. One of the big ways is to actually introduce air into it. And if you say, you know, beat some eggs, what you're doing, you're not just breaking the eggs down into their, their kind of components or like a mishmash of all of their components. You're also introducing air into that mix, which will eventually, as we'll see, transfers into the cake to make it rise.

• 22:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, and like when you're, when you're following a recipe, if you've never baked a cake before, and it says cream the butter and sugar, or sift the flour, you can't just say, eh, like, I don't have a sifter, so I'll just throw the flour in here. Like, your cake is screwed.

• 23:02Josh Clark?

  Yeah, because it's not just like, oh, that makes the flour pretty.

• 23:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:05Josh Clark?

  Sifting flour introduces air into the whole mix too.

• 23:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is all very important stuff. So you can't, you can't cheat any of these steps.

• 23:13Josh Clark?

  No, you can't. You really need to follow a cake recipe pretty closely.

• 23:16Speaker 03

  I mean, I guess if you're a master baker and you know what you're doing, you can do something in lieu of something else.

• 23:21Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 23:21Speaker 03

  But if you're just an ordinary, non-professional baker at home, just follow the recipe and do what they say.

• 23:28Josh Clark?

  Yeah, because you couldn't say, well, I'm going to substitute this flour for a bunch of salt. Like, not only would it would it taste radically different, like you're affecting the chemical composition of the mixture.

• 23:41Speaker 03

  True, unless you're making a traditional South Georgia salt cake.

• 23:44Josh Clark?

  Right, which you can also use on those snowy days to clear the road, too.

• 23:49Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 23:50Josh Clark?

  So you've got yeast as a leavening agent, you've got introducing air through like whipping something, and I found this mention of a recipe that called for four eggs to be beaten for two hours.

• 24:03Speaker 03

  Holy cow.

• 24:04Josh Clark?

  So you can imagine that everybody was pretty psyched when chemical leavening agents were introduced in the mid 19th century.

• 24:12Speaker 03

  Oh, so that was an old recipe?

• 24:14Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 24:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, and so, in other words, you couldn't just put the mixer on with your eggs and leave?

• 24:18Josh Clark?

  No.

• 24:19Speaker 03

  And go get on social media?

• 24:21Josh Clark?

  No, this was with your arm.

• 24:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:23Josh Clark?

  And, and, yeah, it was not, I mean, I imagine if the person you were working for asked for a cake, you're just like, this is a bad day, this is gonna be a bad day.

• 24:33Speaker 03

  Did you beat for three hours?

• 24:34Josh Clark?

  Right, and the whole reason, again, you're doing this is to introduce some air, right? But if you could use something else, say like sodium bicarbonate, also known as baking soda, and you mixed it, which is a base, and you added another ingredient in there, which is like an acid, say like buttermilk or yogurt or vinegar, right?

• 24:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:54Josh Clark?

  Like in a vinegar cake, that sodium bicarbonate, that base, and that acid are gonna mix together and form a chemical reaction and release CO2.

• 25:05Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 25:06Josh Clark?

  And this is how modern cakes rise. CO2 is released through this chemical reaction, and it goes and bubbles up through the cake and makes the cake rise with it. That's what leavening agents do, is they they take air and they expand it and make it the cake.

• 25:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, like when you slice a piece of cake, not not so much pound cake, because it's way more dense, or other non-flavored cakes, but your standard birthday cake, you slice it up, and you see those, it's, you know, those pockets, those holes, that, you know, those are air holes. Those were where the bubbles were, and we'll get to that a little more, but it's, that's very important stuff.

• 25:46Josh Clark?

  That's a, that's a famous chef's apron, baker's apron, ask me about my air holes.

• 25:53Speaker 03

  Fat source, very important.

• 25:57Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 25:58Speaker 03

  Fats improve the texture of a cake, allow it to be moist, flavorful, because we all know fat tastes great. And butter, you know, people can use shortening, which is good, margarine is good, cooking oil, this can all be used. But for me, just get some real butter, and I say that for all foods. I went on a butter, uh, not a-

• 26:21Josh Clark?

  Kick?

• 26:22Speaker 03

  No, no, no, I am on a butter kick. I went on a butter, a boycott of sorts for a while.

• 26:29Speaker 03

  Like, real butter. But now I'm back on butter.

• 26:32Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, I know what you mean. I tend to think butter is healthier of all of them, too.

• 26:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:38Josh Clark?

  Although olive oil has a beat, it's just such a radically different taste.

• 26:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, sure, I love olive oil.

• 26:43Josh Clark?

  Especially when you're baking with it. Although, have you ever had an olive oil cake?

• 26:47Speaker 03

  Don't think so.

• 26:49Josh Clark?

  I don't remember where I had it, but man, they are good.

• 26:51Speaker 03

  Really?

• 26:52Josh Clark?

  Yes. They're surprisingly good, but it is definitely its own distinct thing, you know what I'm saying? Like, subbing olive oil out for butter's gonna give you a weirdo recipe that no one's going to like, but they might pretend they do if they like you.

• 27:06Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 27:06Josh Clark?

  But they don't really like that.

• 27:08Speaker 03

  Right. And all these fat sources, they can be used sometimes together, or swapped out for butter. But, but again, you gotta know what you're doing. You can't just say, "Well, I'm not gonna use butter, I'm gonna just use the same amount of cooking oil as melted butter."

• 27:22Josh Clark?

  Right, and one of the reasons why swapping something out for butter in particular, too, I mean, butter gives it its richness, it helps improve its moistness and texture, right? Butter's great. But butter also has a tendency to incorporate air. When you cream butter, when you start to mash it around, that's the whole reason. Like, they're not telling you to cream the butter just to make it look good before you add it to the batter, you're actually incorporating air there. So that butter is serving both as a fat and as a leavening agent in that recipe.

• 27:53Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 27:54Josh Clark?

  So if you come across a recipe that calls for butter, that it must be creamed, there's something else going on besides just getting a buttery taste out of your cake.

• 28:02Speaker 03

  That's right. Sweetener, I was about to say sugar, instead of sweetener.

• 28:07Josh Clark?

  Might as well, though.

• 28:08Speaker 03

  But let's be honest, you can use honey and stuff, you can use agave, artificial sweetener, but sugar- Is the best thing to use, in my opinion. It bonds best to water molecules. It's really gonna help, that'll help everything be nice and moist and soft. And you don't want to overdo it, though. You want to use, again, the right amount of sugar because not only could it affect the taste, but it could make the texture, it could be too tough.

• 28:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and sugar's another one, too, where if you see sugar and you sub it out for something else, it can have an impact on that chemical reaction.

• 28:42Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 28:43Josh Clark?

  Because it does all those things you were talking about. Like, one of the things it does is it, the crystalline structure of sugar actually cuts through the batter to help release CO2 more easily. And, like you said, it binds to water, which means it does two things. It locks it in so that it keeps moisture in. But it also, sugar also robs that water from some of the proteins and the starches that give the cake its structure, which means that they're not going to be able to become tough and dense, like you were saying, because sugar's already grabbed onto that water molecule.

• 29:18Speaker 03

  Right.

• 29:18Josh Clark?

  And sugar in particular, you're not going to get the same thing with, like, stevia or honey. Like, it's not going to have the same effect. It's crystalline sugar, and it doesn't have to be white refined sugar. You'd have the same effect, I think, with, like, turbinado cane sugar, too.

• 29:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, and you can, I mean, if you don't want to use sugar and you want to use honey, look up a recipe that is specific to honey, and they will help account for that.

• 29:42Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 29:43Speaker 03

  In certain ways, but it's still, to me, you know, white sugar. Do it.

• 29:47Josh Clark?

  Right. And then they, sugar also gives it that nice golden brown color through the Maillard reaction.

• 29:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, that and the eggs, for sure.

• 29:56Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 29:57Speaker 03

  Well, we're at eggs.

• 29:59Josh Clark?

  Sugar. And eggs.

• 30:02Speaker 03

  Eggs are big.

• 30:03Josh Clark?

  Uh, yeah.

• 30:04Speaker 03

  Especially if they're ostrich eggs.

• 30:05Josh Clark?

  Eggs, I know. Eggs have proteins in them, right?

• 30:09Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:10Josh Clark?

  And there's a couple of things in there. Those proteins help give structure to the cake.

• 30:17Josh Clark?

  I believe.

• 30:17Speaker 03

  Yes, absolutely. The emulsifiers in the yolk, they help. It's also kind of serves as a binding agent. There are a lot of things, including flour, that help bind things together. But those eggs and those yolks very much do. Because there are certain things in cake, sometimes that don't want to mix.

• 30:33Josh Clark?

  Yeah, like the water.

• 30:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, and the egg comes together and says, well, you know, can't we all just kind of stick together here? Literally.

• 30:40Josh Clark?

  Nice.

• 30:41Speaker 03

  Yes. That wasn't meant to be a pun, I meant that.

• 30:43Josh Clark?

  And I think the two big emulsifiers are actually in the egg yolk. Cholesterol and lecithin are found in egg yolk. And they're like, hey, everybody, come on, let's hang out.

• 30:55Speaker 03

  That's right. And there's also fats in egg. And we also, we already mentioned that fats are awesome and taste delicious.

• 31:02Josh Clark?

  Plus also, if you're using whole eggs, most of the egg white is water. The vast majority is water. And as we'll see, water and liquids play a big role in the cake, too. So it's all, like, the idea of people figuring all this out through millennia of little contributions here or there is just, it's just a blessing on humanity.

• 31:26Josh Clark?

  It is, it's a really neat accomplishment that everyone had, came together to figure this out over the span of time in wonderful kitchens on cold winter days. Where we're like, you know, you've got like a nice cake baking in the oven. You're contributing to humanity's knowledge of being great.

• 31:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, a lot of bad, the carcasses of a lot of bad cakes have been left in its wake.

• 31:47Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 31:48Speaker 03

  To get where we are today.

• 31:49Josh Clark?

  A lot of unhappy families and a lot of unpleasant conversations about those cakes, but still.

• 31:53Speaker 03

  And I bet in the olden days, when times were a little tougher, they probably still ate those cakes.

• 31:58Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, I would guess so.

• 31:59Speaker 03

  You know, you probably didn't just toss it out to the mules.

• 32:01Josh Clark?

  No, you gave them to sailors, who were glad to have them.

• 32:06Speaker 03

  All right, that brings us to flour. Very, very important ingredient in most baked goods. And flour is what is going to really be the binding agent. It's really going to hold everything together.

• 32:19Josh Clark?

  Give it its structure.

• 32:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, a lot of structure and strength. And this is, when you mix these proteins with water, it's going to form gluten. And gluten, I know a lot of people hate gluten, my wife being one of them. But gluten is a pretty key ingredient here. Although I will say, they've come a long way now with gluten-free cakes.

• 32:39Josh Clark?

  They have. It doesn't make you quite as sad to eat one.

• 32:43Speaker 03

  No, they're pretty good now. If you get a good gluten-free cake, it's um.

• 32:46Josh Clark?

  Well, cheesecake is gluten-free, so that's okay with me.

• 32:49Speaker 03

  I mean, you know, your standard substitute flour. They've just gotten a lot better, I think.

• 32:55Josh Clark?

  Yep. So in a standard glutinous cake, that gluten from the flour mixing with the water forms a gel. And it gives it that structure. It gives it that consistency, the texture that you're looking for. But again, the sugar's robbing the proteins and the starches from getting too much water. Because the more water it gets, the tougher the cake is going to be, the more gluten. So you actually want to make sure that your sugar's taking away some of the liquids. But also, the type of flour you use has a lot to do with how tough your cake's going to turn out.

• 33:39Josh Clark?

  So like, there is such a thing as cake flour.

• 33:41Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 33:41Josh Clark?

  That's something like 7%, 7.5% protein, which is going to translate into less gluten when you mix it with water, right?

• 33:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:49Josh Clark?

  So it's going to be a lighter, fluffier cake. And then there's all-purpose flour is 10.5%. Bread flour is 12%. And depending on what kind of consistency you want in your cake, you would use these different kinds of flour. And all of it comes down to the amount of gluten that's going to be produced when it interacts with the liquids.

• 34:09Speaker 03

  That's right. And finally, that brings us to the liquids. The liquids are obviously going to help keep things moist. They hydrate those proteins. They allow all those chemical changes to take place. But that liquid does, when you actually bake the cake, when it comes time to put it in the oven, which we're going to get to here in a sec, that creates a steam, like that liquid cooks out and vaporizes. So that steam expands the air cells and that volume. And it really lends itself to the light airy structure and texture that you're going to get.

• 34:43Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it blows up the CO2 bubbles in it even further, which helps make the cake rise. Plus, it also, Chuck, fosters that chemical reaction between the acids and the bases that act as leavening agents that release CO2 in the first place. The presence of liquids and the presence, or water specifically, I think, and heat really make that CO2 go berserk.

• 35:07Speaker 03

  All right, well, we should talk about ovens.

• 35:10Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 35:11Speaker 03

  I was about to say you can't bake a cake without an oven, but apparently you can.

• 35:13Josh Clark?

  You can in Egypt.

• 35:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:16Josh Clark?

  Ancient Egypt.

• 35:17Speaker 03

  All right, so let's say we're not in ancient Egypt. Let's say we're in regular North America in Europe. And the 18th century is basically when the semi-closed oven came around. And before this, if you were baking cakes, well, you were probably a professional baker. Because these ovens weren't in every household.

• 35:40Josh Clark?

  Right. And even in the 18th century, they weren't in every household either, but they started to become a lot more prevalent around that time. That was a big first step toward people baking at home. Not just cakes, but anything, you know?

• 35:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:57Josh Clark?

  In cake history, that was a huge monumental moment when the enclosed oven became kind of ubiquitous among households.

• 36:04Speaker 03

  For sure, because what you get there is consistency. You get a consistent even temperature. And of course, that just got better and better over the years with advances in oven technology.

• 36:14Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 36:15Speaker 03

  And more than anything, you get a reliable temperature, ideally.

• 36:18Josh Clark?

  Right. And if you have those things, you can make a cake after cake after cake that your family won't be mad about. The sailors will stop coming by and being like, "You got any more of them terrible cakes you made?"

• 36:31Speaker 03

  Sailors?

• 36:33Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's who you give the terrible cakes to.

• 36:35Speaker 03

  Bumpkin sailors?

• 36:37Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 36:37Speaker 03

  All right.

• 36:39Josh Clark?

  So with the oven in particular, I didn't realize this, but you know how the liquid and the heat and the sodium bicarbonate and the acids are mixing together to make the cake rise?

• 36:50Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 36:51Josh Clark?

  That is actually a really fragile state of affairs while the cake is baking and the structure, the proteins and the starches and the gluten are actually solidifying and making this cake.

• 37:04Josh Clark?

  And if you mess with the oven, meaning like you open and close the door too often, or you slam it shut too hard.

• 37:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:12Josh Clark?

  You're gonna, the, the change in temperature, on the one hand, can cool those gases and make your cake fall, and it makes a wah wah sound as it does.

• 37:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:21Josh Clark?

  As everyone knows. And then, um, the air pressure from slamming the door can burst those CO2 bubbles. And again, you're, the proteins haven't had a, a chance to like, solidify and make the cake structure so the cake can fall from that as well. And if you'll notice, um, once a cake gets to a certain point, if it falls, it falls in the middle. The outside usually stays up because that part has solidified already. The stuff in the middle hasn't quite cooked through. So that would be the part that falls. And that also proves my point.

• 37:50Speaker 03

  That's right. Uh, you also wanna put your cake in the middle. Uh, where you place your cake in the oven can even cause problems.

• 37:56Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:56Speaker 03

  It's very finicky, cakes are.

• 37:58Josh Clark?

  Sure. Well, again, it's a science experiment.

• 38:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're basically like, do, do this right jerk, or I might just take a nap here in the, in the middle of the, in the middle of the cake.

• 38:07Josh Clark?

  Maybe I'll burn. Maybe I'll stick up your whole house.

• 38:11Speaker 03

  But like you said about opening the door, like, ideally, you know the, the temperature of your oven, you know how long it takes. And maybe don't wait till literally you think I can pull it out. Although if you're a good baker, you're not sweating it. You pull it out and you know it's pretty much ready.

• 38:25Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 38:26Speaker 03

  But definitely don't keep opening it. Try and least, wait till the end. And if you have, uh, they're not quite as in fashion now, I don't think, but, uh, ovens with a, a window and a light.

• 38:37Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:37Speaker 03

  Um, you can obviously take a little peek that way.

• 38:40Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 38:42Speaker 03

  Those are kind of out of fashion, right? Or are they?

• 38:44Josh Clark?

  I don't, not that I know of.

• 38:45Speaker 03

  I feel like I don't see those a lot. Do you have a, a window in your oven?

• 38:47Josh Clark?

  Sure, of course. What, am I a communist?

• 38:50Speaker 03

  Do you?

• 38:50Josh Clark?

  Yes, with the light.

• 38:52Speaker 03

  Oh, man.

• 38:53Josh Clark?

  What do you have?

• 38:54Speaker 03

  Just a stainless steel door.

• 38:56Josh Clark?

  That's a dishwasher, man.

• 38:57Speaker 03

  Oh, that's my problem.

• 38:59Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Like, my cakes always come out wet and soapy.

• 39:02Speaker 03

  Wait a minute, do I have a window?

• 39:04Josh Clark?

  Sure you do. I think everyone does.

• 39:07Speaker 03

  I'm literally, cannot picture my kitchen right now.

• 39:11Josh Clark?

  Jerry, he's got a window, right?

• 39:13Speaker 03

  I've been baking in the dishwasher?

• 39:15Josh Clark?

  Jerry and I say, yes, you have a window in your oven.

• 39:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, that might be, I might have just said something very dumb, so.

• 39:21Josh Clark?

  So, it's staying in, though.

• 39:23Speaker 03

  Well, I do know, you know what, I think I do have a window, but I don't have a working light. That's why I think I don't have a window.

• 39:28Josh Clark?

  You need to replace the light bulb.

• 39:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, but who wants to bother with that?

• 39:31Josh Clark?

  For all, you can go to like, any, any big box hardware store, pop hardware store, off the internet, sure.

• 39:39Speaker 03

  I don't replace light bulbs at my house.

• 39:41Josh Clark?

  Matter of fact, I think they probably sell them at the grocery store even. You go find yourself some Gulf Wax, and you're probably near the refrigerator oven light bulbs.

• 39:51Speaker 03

  All right, the heat of the oven is very important, so depending on how good your oven is, it may be a little off, maybe a little hotter or cooler, so you might want to purchase an oven thermometer, just to give it a double check, because baking is science. And when you think that, that cake is done, take a little peek through your window that everyone has, or open it if you really think it's done, give a little tap in the center. If it springs back, then it's probably done. If you're an experienced baker, you just know by looking at it. Or you can always do the old toothpick trick, which is stick in that toothpick, wooden toothpick, in the center of the cake, and pull it out, and if there's no cake on it, then it's pretty much done.

• 40:33Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 40:34Speaker 03

  If it's, if it's covered in goo, that means it's not done.

• 40:38Josh Clark?

  Uh, that is correct, Chuck.

• 40:41Speaker 03

  But then you can also lick that goo off that toothpick.

• 40:45Josh Clark?

  Uh.

• 40:45Speaker 03

  It's not bad.

• 40:46Josh Clark?

  No, you can, but you're, it's just never quite as good, and I think it's, it always tastes like disappointment.

• 40:53Speaker 03

  The toothpick batter?

• 40:53Josh Clark?

  Cause you, you want it to come out clean anytime you're doing that. You're never really putting it in, expecting it to come out battery.

• 41:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 41:00Josh Clark?

  So even though you do get to lick it, that's like the one plus side of that, that experience, I think.

• 41:05Speaker 03

  That's true, and if your cake is done, you're not finished baking it yet even. You need to let it cool in the pan.

• 41:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's a big one.

• 41:12Speaker 03

  You don't just pull the cake out and, and turn it upside down in your sink, and eat it with your hands while it's still hot.

• 41:20Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 41:20Speaker 02

  That's not the way to do it.

• 41:22Josh Clark?

  No.

• 41:23Speaker 02

  No, you want to let it finish in the pan cooling because it's still doing a little bit of baking and it's getting used to its new room in the kitchen and saying, all right, this is a different temperature in here. I think I can hang with you guys.

• 41:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah. I'm alive.

• 41:38Speaker 02

  10 or 15 minutes later, get out that wire rack, flip it over, and ideally it comes out all in one nice thing.

• 41:45Josh Clark?

  Yep. And the other good thing about letting it cool in the pan first too is when you cool it on the wire rack, it won't get those wire indentations in the cake because it'll be stable enough.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  I never thought about that.

• 41:58Josh Clark?

  Nobody likes us. Sure, you can fill it in with a little extra frosting.

• 42:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:02Josh Clark?

  Actually, now that I think about it, that's great. Those indentations are just fine.

• 42:07Speaker 02

  The frosting grooves, in other words?

• 42:09Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 42:10Speaker 02

  Should we take a break?

• 42:11Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  All right, we're going to talk, well, just about other cakey stuff, right after this.

• 42:26Josh Clark?

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• 42:36Speaker 02

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• 42:49Josh Clark?

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• 43:05Speaker 02

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• 43:27Josh Clark?

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• 43:40Speaker 02

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• 43:54Josh Clark?

  Yeah, plus it's built with a durable aluminum chassis, weighing just 2.2 pounds, and Intel Core processors, so it's fast, reliable, and portable enough to keep up wherever you go. And while shopping, you'll also find great perks like Dell Rewards, fast free shipping, premium support, and financing with flexible payment options. Plus, you can find great deals on monitors and accessories. That means you can score a whole new setup now for less. Visit dell.com to explore the possibilities with XPS.

• 44:23Speaker 02

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• 44:36Speaker 02

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• 44:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah, Bombas makes your comfiest fall staples, so you can make the most out of one of the best seasons of the year. Bombas has new suede moccasins that are perfect for fall, because they have cushy soles, a sheerling lining, and they're made of water-resistant suede.

• 44:57Speaker 02

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• 45:01Josh Clark?

  And of course, Bombas has socks. Not just any socks, socks for every type of weather, every type of occasion, because fall can be fickle, and Bombas makes socks that can handle it all. And, the best part about Bombas, for every item you purchase, they donate an essential clothing item to someone facing housing insecurity. One purchased equals one donated, with over 200 million donations and counting.

• 45:24Speaker 02

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• 45:50Josh Clark?

  Okay Chuck, you remember I was talking about baking soda and how that changed everything?

• 45:54Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 45:55Josh Clark?

  That was a big one. That was from the 1840s. Baking soda, sodium bicarbonate. Just good old fashioned, regular old baking soda, started to be added to it. But at the time, you needed to also add another ingredient that was an acid so that the two would react and form CO2 or produce CO2, right?

• 46:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:13Josh Clark?

  Somebody about 20 years after baking soda was developed said, "Oh, I got this. We're gonna come up with something called baking powder." And I never knew this, but this is the difference between baking soda and baking powder. Baking soda is just sodium bicarbonate. Baking powder is sodium bicarbonate and two other dry acidic minerals.

• 46:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:33Josh Clark?

  That when dry, they don't do anything. You can mix them together all day long and they just sit there like, "What?" But in the presence of water and heat, then they start to react chemically with one another. So you can add just a little baking powder and you don't need an extra ingredient like yogurt or vinegar or some other acid. It's got the base and the acid that's gonna produce the CO2 in there. That was a huge, huge advancement for cakes. But it actually came kind of toward the end of cake advancement. Prior to that, just the mass production of the industrial revolution had a big impact on cakes, among many, many other things.

• 47:15Josh Clark?

  But definitely had an impact on the spread of cake baking, especially in the United States.

• 47:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then, so just, you know, leave that baking soda in your fridge to soak up the stink.

• 47:24Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 47:25Speaker 03

  That's all it's good for.

• 47:27Josh Clark?

  Well, that and...

• 47:28Speaker 03

  No, you can use baking soda for a lot of stuff.

• 47:30Josh Clark?

  Yeah. It also gets stink out of like clothes, too.

• 47:33Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah?

• 47:34Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm. You can use it to, well, that's it.

• 47:39Speaker 03

  No, like school science projects. You wanna make a volcano?

• 47:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah, vinegar and baking soda.

• 47:43Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 47:44Josh Clark?

  I love that.

• 47:44Speaker 03

  With your parents' help.

• 47:45Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 47:48Speaker 03

  Packaged cake mix was a very big deal when it came out in the 1930s. But it was, it was a company named P. Duff and Sons. And they said, we got a problem here. We got too much molasses on our hands. So, and this is kind of how a lot of great things have been invented. They had too much of something. They say, well, what can we use this for? So they got to work and they said, Mr. John Duff, the owner, said, you know what? Throw a little wheat flour in there with this molasses, a little shortening, some spices. We got a gingerbread mix that we can sell to the public. All you gotta do is add water, dum-dum, and you can bake yourself some gingerbread cookies.

• 48:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and the, the public went, hooray! Because remember, they had ovens now in their houses.

• 48:32Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 48:34Josh Clark?

  And they had this, the idea that you could just get a mix from the store and just add water was huge. That was a huge change. And what's interesting is this, this whole like P. Duff and Sons story, they're out of Pittsburgh, by the way. From them coming up, because I think they quickly went from just gingerbread mixes to cake mixes themselves as well. But that busts several myths, actually, some like longstanding food myths.

• 49:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:03Josh Clark?

  One of them is that cake mix came out of a surplus of flour in, from World War II. That's where the cake mix came from.

• 49:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, cake, pre-made cake mixes did get way more popular after World War II, but it wasn't because there was so much flour.

• 49:19Josh Clark?

  No, it was because that a lot of the food companies started getting into premixed foods.

• 49:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:25Josh Clark?

  That, that you could make pretty easily in your kitchen. But then the other one, I love this one. There's this longstanding myth or this story about a guy named Ernest Dichter, who, back in the 1950s, Ernest Dichter, he was a psychologist, I believe. He came up with the term focus group. He, he came up with the whole idea of focus groups to help companies figure out why their new product wasn't doing so well, or how to make a product that they hadn't launched yet even more appealing. This guy came up with that whole idea of focus groups, right?

• 49:59Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 50:00Josh Clark?

  So he's also credited with being the man who saved cake mixes because cake mixes came out, everybody kind of loved them, and then supposedly, sales went flat and Ernest Dichter got a focus group together and found out that women who made cakes using these cake mixes felt guilty that they weren't contributing anything to their families. They were just adding water and making a cake and then quietly sobbing while their family ate it.

• 50:30Speaker 03

  Talk about a patriarchal brainwashing.

• 50:33Josh Clark?

  Right, so Dichter realized that the best thing that these cake mix companies could do is to remove the dried egg ingredients from the mix and tell the consumer to add her own eggs. So then that way she was contributing. Well, it was a huge success and cake mixes took off and became part of the American pantheon from that point on, right?

• 50:58Speaker 03

  Not true.

• 50:59Josh Clark?

  No?

• 51:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, that is a total urban myth. Most of these pre-made mixes for years had said to add your own eggs because it just was better to add fresh eggs.

• 51:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 51:12Speaker 03

  It tastes better and performed better, so I don't know how that got started.

• 51:16Josh Clark?

  The myth?

• 51:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, was it?

• 51:20Josh Clark?

  I'm not sure either.

• 51:21Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 51:22Josh Clark?

  I don't know, but it is a longstanding food myth that you can find like some very credible sources who say like, oh, this happened. It's just everywhere, but it turns out that's not true. But I think the reason why it has had legs for so long is because Ernest Dichter is actually rightfully credited with saving the cake mix market.

• 51:42Speaker 03

  Right.

• 51:43Josh Clark?

  Through a focus group, and he did find that women were kind of not, they didn't feel guilty about it, about, you know, not contributing more to the cake mix. They think they were more bored by it.

• 51:56Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:57Josh Clark?

  So he advised companies to figure out a way to make cake baking about way more than just baking the cake. And so companies decided that they were going to start promoting cakes as just the beginning part, that the real point of baking cakes was to make these elaborate, amazing cakes that you decorated.

• 52:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:20Josh Clark?

  And it took you hours and hours to make these things, and it was like a scene of like Humpty Dumpty on a brick wall, but the whole thing was made out of cake. And that was fostered by the introduction of frosting. And that came from Ernest Dichter. And that actually is what saved the cake mix industry.

• 52:38Speaker 03

  That's right. You want to know something about my mom?

• 52:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 52:42Speaker 03

  Champion cake decorator.

• 52:44Josh Clark?

  Is that right?

• 52:44Speaker 03

  Not literal champion, like she never won a contest.

• 52:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah, because it is out there.

• 52:50Speaker 03

  But yeah, I mean, as far as the home, the home cake baker goes, like she, she couldn't go on one of these shows now where they make like-

• 52:59Josh Clark?

  The Great British Bake Off?

• 53:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, like giant submarines and stuff out of fondant. But just for like, mom making special cakes every year for the birthday. Every year she would say, what kind of cake you want this year? I'd be like, I want a Star Wars cake. I want an Atlanta Falcons cake. And lo and behold, I would get my Atlanta Falcons cake.

• 53:17Josh Clark?

  That's awesome.

• 53:17Speaker 03

  Very cool stuff.

• 53:18Josh Clark?

  You know, I had an older sister who, she died actually when I was 16 in a car accident. But she used to be the equivalent of your mom at making cakes.

• 53:31Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 53:32Josh Clark?

  But she didn't even need to ask. She would just, she'd just make something up, right?

• 53:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:37Josh Clark?

  And there was this one year, I'll never forget this cake. We were all big time into Howard Jones. So it must have been-

• 53:43Speaker 03

  The singer?

• 53:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah. It must have been like my ninth or 10th birthday. My whole, like, both my sisters and me were totally into Howard Jones. And Karen, my sister, my oldest sister, made a Howard Jones keyboard cake.

• 53:56Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 53:57Josh Clark?

  And it was a couple of sheet cakes put together, frosted, so it looked like one big thing. Like, the black keys were Kit Kats. Like, the knobs on the synthesizer were Rolos.

• 54:08Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 54:09Josh Clark?

  I just looked around at all my friends, like, does everyone see my cake? This is the greatest cake anyone's ever had.

• 54:14Speaker 03

  And no one could have any but me.

• 54:16Josh Clark?

  No, I shared.

• 54:17Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 54:18Josh Clark?

  I wanted everyone to partake in the bounty.

• 54:20Speaker 03

  Was it a keytar or a keyboard?

• 54:22Josh Clark?

  It was a keyboard.

• 54:23Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 54:23Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 54:24Speaker 03

  You never know, strap a-

• 54:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 54:27Speaker 03

  Strap a guitar strap on it, you might could have held it.

• 54:29Josh Clark?

  I would not have put it past her to make it a keytar.

• 54:33Speaker 03

  Man, that is very sweet story.

• 54:34Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 54:35Speaker 03

  Literally and figuratively.

• 54:37Josh Clark?

  Thank you.

• 54:38Speaker 03

  Hojo fans, huh?

• 54:41Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 54:42Speaker 03

  Isn't that his nickname?

• 54:43Josh Clark?

  I don't think so.

• 54:43Speaker 03

  Did I make that up?

• 54:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I think that's the hotel chain.

• 54:46Speaker 03

  I think you're totally right.

• 54:49Speaker 03

  All right, well, another tip here for baking a cake. If you are looking at recipes and it says, "Use this kind of pan," you think, "Well, I don't have that kind of pan. I've got this kind of pan." It's aluminum and square, and they're calling for a round, dark pan. It makes a big difference. Like, it can literally ruin your cake.

• 55:09Josh Clark?

  Yeah, you supposedly want to reduce the heat. I think, not the heat or the cook time, one of the two.

• 55:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, it says a dark, nonstick pan requires 25% reduction in temperature.

• 55:19Josh Clark?

  So you want to knock that heat down 25%?

• 55:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, but also, like, Google that stuff. Don't just say, "Josh and Chuck said this should work." You know, like, you have to have the right pan

• 55:30Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 55:31Speaker 03

  for that recipe. And they will tell you in the recipe. And if you don't have it, just look up the cheat for it, basically.

• 55:37Josh Clark?

  Yeah, two things you don't want to take our advice blindly on. Medical stuff? And baking stuff?

• 55:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:44Josh Clark?

  Everything else is fine.

• 55:45Speaker 03

  I don't know about that, but those are the two leading ways that we will mess your life up.

• 55:49Josh Clark?

  For sure.

• 55:52Speaker 03

  All right, well, I guess we need to talk about the different methods. We're getting super wonky into cakes here.

• 55:58Josh Clark?

  Well, I mean, that's what we do.

• 56:00Speaker 03

  All right, well, let's talk about creaming, then, because that is one kind of method of making a cake. And creaming is what we talked about. You may not have known exactly what we meant, but when you combine, like, the butter and sugar, and it says, "Cream it with an electric beater," that's what you're doing. And it's really tough at first to get it going, but just hang in there, because that butter will start to break apart, mixing it with that sugar, and you've got a nice creamed mix of ingredients, starter mix of ingredients on your hand there.

• 56:32Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 56:32Speaker 03

  But you don't skimp on that first step.

• 56:36Josh Clark?

  No, and that's like that, I think the creaming method, um, that's, that's, that's the one that best gets across this point, that this is like, this is a, there, it's a chemical reaction. I know we've kind of been beating that horse.

• 56:48Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 56:49Josh Clark?

  But it's really true. Like if you, if you don't follow the steps correctly, the chemical reaction's not going to come out correctly.

• 56:56Speaker 03

  Right.

• 56:57Josh Clark?

  And when you step back, you're like, um, but I'm baking a cake. That's true, but do you want your cake to, to be good, or do you want to just waste your time?

• 57:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. So in the creaming method, when it says, then mix ingredients in this order, wet then dry.

• 57:10Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 57:10Speaker 03

  Do that.

• 57:11Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 57:12Speaker 03

  Don't just say, ah, just throw it all in there, right?

• 57:14Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 57:14Speaker 03

  It makes a difference.

• 57:15Josh Clark?

  And, uh, it says that pound cakes are a, like a variation on the theme.

• 57:20Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 57:21Josh Clark?

  I looked into pound cakes, man. Do you know, so the, the idea that pound cakes called for a pound of each ingredient, that's actually true.

• 57:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know.

• 57:29Josh Clark?

  But the reason why it called for a pound of each ingredient was because a lot of the British people at the time, in the early seventeen hundreds, um, couldn't read. So it was just an easy way to remember the recipe.

• 57:42Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting.

• 57:43Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 57:44Speaker 03

  All right. I'll buy that.

• 57:46Josh Clark?

  They'd be like, what's a Tibbs?

• 57:47Speaker 03

  And also pound cakes too, the reason, um, why you're not gonna find a pound cake with a big buttercream frosting is, cause that will, that will send you into sugar shock in a second.

• 58:00Josh Clark?

  It really would.

• 58:00Speaker 03

  Cause pound cake is already really dense and sugary. Like, that's why you just have it like a little glaze on top.

• 58:05Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 58:06Speaker 03

  I do like that glaze, actually. I'll eat a pound cake.

• 58:09Josh Clark?

  I think that glaze is, uh, what's it called?

• 58:13Speaker 03

  Delicious?

• 58:14Josh Clark?

  Something, something icing, imperial icing?

• 58:16Speaker 03

  Oh, I don't know.

• 58:17Josh Clark?

  I can't remember. Uh, okay. So the next one is the not, the no aeration method, to where you're not really, you're not whipping anything up.

• 58:26Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, you probably don't even have flour in this, in this, this is probably a flourless cake.

• 58:30Josh Clark?

  Right. So this, this is the kind of thing that you use to, um, make like a cheesecake or a flourless chocolate cake.

• 58:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, those can be very good.

• 58:38Josh Clark?

  Sure. Um, and you are probably going to need to add some sort of moisture because cakes like this tend to crack while they're baking.

• 58:47Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 58:47Josh Clark?

  Which is why a lot of them, cheesecakes in particular, you cook in a water bath in the oven, because that water vaporizes and steams around it and helps keep that moisture in.

• 58:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, I never knew that.

• 59:00Josh Clark?

  The reason for the water bath?

• 59:01Speaker 03

  I didn't know that he used a water bath. That was news to me.

• 59:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 59:05Speaker 03

  I've never made a cheesecake.

• 59:06Josh Clark?

  Yeah, they can be quite good.

• 59:08Speaker 03

  Oh, I love cheesecake.

• 59:09Josh Clark?

  I don't think I've ever had any bad cheesecake. It's always good. That's another thing, too. Publix cheesecake is incredible.

• 59:18Speaker 03

  Man, they need to sponsor us.

• 59:19Josh Clark?

  And they sell it by the double slice for those.

• 59:22Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 59:23Josh Clark?

  Like, you get two slices. And they have a key lime one, too, Chuck, that's just, oh, man. Although, if you don't like lemon stuff, you might not like that.

• 59:29Speaker 03

  Oh, no, I love key lime anything.

• 59:31Josh Clark?

  Okay. Try their key lime cheesecake.

• 59:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:33Josh Clark?

  They really should send us some stuff, frankly.

• 59:36Speaker 03

  At Isle of Palms for my vacation that I've spoken about, they had one of the, I can't remember which one, but one of the seafood joints where I would get all the fresh seafood, had a homemade key lime pie. And I bought and ate one of them with my friends that week, and I bought two to go home with.

• 59:55Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm. Did they make it home?

• 59:57Speaker 03

  Huh?

• 59:58Josh Clark?

  Did they make it all the way home?

• 59:59Speaker 03

  No, yeah, I stopped in, I stopped at the border.

• 1:00:03Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:03Speaker 03

  Just put my face in it. No, they made it home. And I think there's still one in the freezer, actually. And then one of them was consumed.

• 1:00:10Josh Clark?

  Nice. Yeah, good key lime pie.

• 1:00:12Speaker 03

  Delicious.

• 1:00:12Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:00:13Speaker 03

  And finally, with the non-aeration method, you are, you are not doing the, the beating. You're not creaming that stuff. You're folding the batter. And we could describe it here, but if you don't know what folding is in baking, just, just look it up on the YouTube for a proper folding technique.

• 1:00:30Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:00:31Speaker 03

  Generally done with a, like a rubber spatula.

• 1:00:33Josh Clark?

  Yep. There's a foaming method, too, where you are basically using just egg whites usually, and you're aerating it by whipping them up.

• 1:00:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:41Josh Clark?

  Which makes a meringue. You can just stop there and incorporate sugar, and you've got meringue, which would make a pavlova cake, which apparently Australia and New Zealand have been fighting over the origin of for close to 100 years now.

• 1:00:54Speaker 03

  But doesn't New Zealand win?

• 1:00:56Josh Clark?

  Supposedly.

• 1:00:57Speaker 03

  All right.

• 1:00:57Josh Clark?

  Although I saw another article from some researchers who said, no, it came even earlier, a decade earlier, out of America via Germany.

• 1:01:07Speaker 03

  Huh.

• 1:01:07Josh Clark?

  So who knows? But yes, out of Australia and New Zealand, New Zealand's apparently won that fight. But that's meringue, and pavlova cake is like a meringue cake with, like, fruit in the middle of it.

• 1:01:18Speaker 03

  Mm, no.

• 1:01:19Josh Clark?

  And then, yeah, and then a listener sent us pavlova once. We made it. It was pretty good.

• 1:01:27Josh Clark?

  It is pretty good, yeah. Um, and then, um, you can also take that egg foam and turn it into like a sponge cake, like an angel food cake or something like that.

• 1:01:36Speaker 03

  Not me.

• 1:01:37Josh Clark?

  You don't like those either?

• 1:01:38Speaker 03

  No, not big into angel food cake.

• 1:01:40Josh Clark?

  Although you can use sponge cake for strawberry shortcake.

• 1:01:43Speaker 03

  That I will have.

• 1:01:45Josh Clark?

  Okay, so those spongy cakes, that's, that uses the egg foaming method. But if you're making a true strawberry shortcake, you're going to use an actual shortcake.

• 1:01:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, those are really good.

• 1:01:55Josh Clark?

  And the reason they're called shortcake or, or shortbread's called shortbread is short is apparently a British term for crumbly.

• 1:02:02Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 1:02:03Josh Clark?

  So that's where that came from, not, not, has nothing to do with the size.

• 1:02:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, Emily makes a really good gluten-free shortbread. She's kind of gotten into baking a bit in the last five or six years and gotten pretty good at it. Um, so she makes a good gluten-free shortbread that we've had as shortcake with homemade whipped topping and, uh, good fresh strawberries. Those are good, but, uh, my one complaint with her baking is it literally looks like she came in there and just started throwing ingredients everywhere with her bare hands like a three-year-old. And then baked.

• 1:02:35Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:02:35Speaker 03

  And then said, I'm done.

• 1:02:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Good night.

• 1:02:37Speaker 03

  It is a, it is a mess.

• 1:02:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:40Speaker 03

  A big, big mess. And she always just says, get out of here, I'll clean it up afterward, don't worry about it.

• 1:02:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's funny, the kitchen can be a place of real tension sometimes, huh?

• 1:02:49Speaker 03

  Oh, for sure. Yeah, especially if both of you, uh, do different things in the kitchen.

• 1:02:55Josh Clark?

  Right, like one's hovering like, are you gonna clean that up?

• 1:02:59Speaker 03

  Well, I'm the kitchen cleaner, so that's why she's just like, just stay out of here, dude.

• 1:03:02Josh Clark?

  Right, just wait until the end?

• 1:03:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:04Josh Clark?

  And you show up, you're like, it's Marge's time to shine.

• 1:03:07Speaker 03

  Well, I'll do this, and this is such a passive-aggressive move, uh, for me, uh, which is my style. Um, not endorsing that, I'm just saying it's one of my downfalls I need to work on. But I'll just go in there and just like groan or something. She'll be like, oh, God. And she'll just say, no, out.

• 1:03:26Josh Clark?

  Right. Again.

• 1:03:30Speaker 03

  That's life at the Bryant House.

• 1:03:32Josh Clark?

  Um.

• 1:03:34Josh Clark?

  That's, that's a pretty nice chocolate.

• 1:03:35Speaker 03

  It's always with love, though.

• 1:03:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it always comes out. There's always a cake on the, on the other end, right?

• 1:03:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's not like we get in serious fights over the kitchen stuff.

• 1:03:43Josh Clark?

  Right, yeah. Um, so what's the last thing here?

• 1:03:47Speaker 03

  Uh, something called the all-in-one method.

• 1:03:49Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's just like a cake mix. You put it all, all together at once.

• 1:03:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, we should talk a little bit about frosting and icing. Um, the earliest versions of frosting was just sort of an almond and sugar paste. Uh, eh, not so big on that, but a French chef.

• 1:04:06Josh Clark?

  Oh, really?

• 1:04:06Speaker 03

  I mean, it can be okay, but.

• 1:04:08Josh Clark?

  Almond croissants are like one of my great joys in life lately.

• 1:04:11Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:04:12Josh Clark?

  They're so good.

• 1:04:12Speaker 03

  I suppose that's kind of what a bear claw is too, right?

• 1:04:14Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:15Speaker 03

  All right, I take it back.

• 1:04:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah, but that almond, that sweet almond paste inside is, man, that's good stuff.

• 1:04:21Speaker 03

  It is good, but I'm like, don't put that on top of a cake for me.

• 1:04:24Josh Clark?

  Sure, understood.

• 1:04:25Speaker 03

  Stuff it in a pastry.

• 1:04:27Josh Clark?

  Good.

• 1:04:27Speaker 03

  Um, a French chef, though, was the first person, they think, that created like the first legit iced layer cake in the 15th century. And then about the middle of the 17th century is when the first frosting recipes started spreading around on the internet.

• 1:04:43Josh Clark?

  Right. And fondant is gross.

• 1:04:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm not into it.

• 1:04:48Josh Clark?

  No. I mean, you can make a neat-looking cake, but it's gross tasting, I think.

• 1:04:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm not into it. Buttercream or cream cheese, uh, or even Emily's Waldorf Astoria frosting. Believe it or not, I mean, it has a bit of a mouth feel because of the shortening, but, um, like a residue on the palate.

• 1:05:08Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:09Speaker 03

  On the roof of your mouth.

• 1:05:10Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:10Speaker 03

  But it's still good.

• 1:05:12Josh Clark?

  Well, let's talk about cakes, like, like the, um, well, no, specific cakes, like the red velvet cake, right?

• 1:05:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, delicious.

• 1:05:20Josh Clark?

  Do you know why it's red?

• 1:05:22Speaker 03

  Well, food coloring.

• 1:05:24Josh Clark?

  That, they use that to make it a little richer, but it actually naturally turns red. It's a chemical reaction between the cocoa, the, um, vinegar in it, and the buttermilk, I believe.

• 1:05:36Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:05:37Josh Clark?

  Yes. It turns it red.

• 1:05:39Speaker 03

  All right, I don't know about that.

• 1:05:41Josh Clark?

  No, it's true.

• 1:05:42Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:05:43Josh Clark?

  I read it on What's Cookin' America.

• 1:05:45Speaker 03

  I'll try it, cuz I'm making, Emily, her birthday is in a couple of weeks and I'm making another, I'm taking another stab at it.

• 1:05:52Josh Clark?

  Try the, try, go find like an original, like, like recipe.

• 1:05:58Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, what do you mean?

• 1:05:59Josh Clark?

  Like one, if you, if you see one that actually uses buttermilk, be like, okay, this one, this is one of the ones I'm gonna try.

• 1:06:05Speaker 03

  No, no, no, I have to use the recipe she tells me to use.

• 1:06:07Josh Clark?

  Oh, I gotcha.

• 1:06:08Speaker 03

  Which is the Waldorf, the gluten-free Waldorf Astoria version.

• 1:06:11Josh Clark?

  Oh, gotcha, I see. But you have cocoa, does it have like vinegar and buttermilk in it?

• 1:06:15Speaker 03

  Mmm, I can't remember, it's been a couple of years since I tried it.

• 1:06:18Josh Clark?

  Okay, well, it should turn red on its own, but I don't think there's any harm in adding some more synthetic chemical red dye.

• 1:06:24Speaker 03

  Well, and the, the thing is too, a lot of people that don't try red velvet cake, don't try it because they think it doesn't, like, it tastes like chocolate cake, pretty much.

• 1:06:33Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:33Speaker 03

  It just is red.

• 1:06:34Josh Clark?

  Doesn't taste red.

• 1:06:35Speaker 03

  No, that'd be weird. It's not ketchup cake.

• 1:06:38Josh Clark?

  There's, uh, yeah, that's Canadian, isn't it?

• 1:06:41Speaker 03

  Boo.

• 1:06:42Josh Clark?

  There's, uh, hummingbird cakes?

• 1:06:44Speaker 03

  Uh, well, what do you mean by the hummingbird? What is that?

• 1:06:46Josh Clark?

  A hummingbird cake has like some nuts and some fruit in it, uh, lots of frosting. I think it's a southern cake.

• 1:06:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, we called, my grandmother, Bryant, called one of the great all-time southern cooks and bakers, like, you know, banana nut bread?

• 1:07:01Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:01Speaker 03

  She called that hummingbird, and I don't know if that was specific to her, or if they are interchangeable.

• 1:07:05Josh Clark?

  I, I don't know. I'm not actually a southern native, so I, I would not say one way or the other. All my experience with hummingbird cake is it's more like a carrot-y cake?

• 1:07:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:17Josh Clark?

  With, with, say, like pineapple in it and some other fruits in it, and a thick layer of frosting. And supposedly, the reason it's called a hummingbird cake is because it's so sweet, it could attract hummingbirds.

• 1:07:29Speaker 03

  Mmm, see, maybe, I mean, that's sort of like banana nut bread, so I don't know if they're interchangeable for variation, but give me some banana nut bread, which is not a cake, but it sort of is, and slice it up and put some butter on it.

• 1:07:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:42Speaker 03

  Toast it in the oven.

• 1:07:44Josh Clark?

  Yep. No, I'm with you. Our freezer is always chock full of black bananas, blackened with age.

• 1:07:51Speaker 03

  Oh, sure.

• 1:07:51Josh Clark?

  Um, cause Yumi makes a killer banana nut bread from scratch using, I mean, you just can't look at the bananas when she's incorporating them.

• 1:07:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, what does that do? Why, why is that the key? Do you know?

• 1:08:02Josh Clark?

  Uh, they just are supposed to be mushy.

• 1:08:04Speaker 03

  Okay. Oh, okay. Gotcha.

• 1:08:06Josh Clark?

  And, and like it, the best way to make bananas mushy is.

• 1:08:10Speaker 03

  To let them age?

• 1:08:10Josh Clark?

  Let them age. Freeze age them.

• 1:08:13Speaker 03

  All right. Let's talk about Indian pound cake. Apparently that's a thing that has cornmeal in it.

• 1:08:18Josh Clark?

  Hmm.

• 1:08:19Speaker 03

  And I can't imagine that taste, but I'd like to try it.

• 1:08:22Josh Clark?

  Well, yeah, and that was one of the earliest cakes in the U.S. And I think what the author Leah Hoyt is pointing out is that like cakes came from all over the place through time and, and geography.

• 1:08:34Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:08:35Josh Clark?

  And that the mass immigration tore into America over, say, like the 17th, 18th, 19th centuries and 20th too. All these people from all these different lands brought their ideas or, or ingredients of cake.

• 1:08:49Speaker 03

  Uh-huh.

• 1:08:50Josh Clark?

  And they kind of went through this Americanized grinder to where eggs were added, butter was added and like you've got these ingredients. So it bears a resemblance to its original one, but it's been like cakeified.

• 1:09:02Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:09:02Josh Clark?

  In the American way. Um, and that, that started basically right as, as European settlers got to, um, North America.

• 1:09:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, apparently the, the good old fashioned chocolate layer cake came out of Boston.

• 1:09:15Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:09:16Speaker 03

  Uh, because there were chocolate companies there.

• 1:09:18Josh Clark?

  Even the German chocolate cake is not German. It's American. It's named after a man whose last name was German.

• 1:09:24Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting. Well, that means he's German. German American.

• 1:09:28Josh Clark?

  Could be.

• 1:09:29Speaker 03

  Maybe they should call it the German American chocolate cake.

• 1:09:32Josh Clark?

  Or just German chocolate cake, but it's really American, everybody is what the real title should be.

• 1:09:38Speaker 03

  Strawberry shortcake that you mentioned, that does come from the old world?

• 1:09:41Josh Clark?

  I'm not much of a jingoist either, I think you might say.

• 1:09:44Speaker 03

  Of course not.

• 1:09:45Josh Clark?

  I've never felt more national pride than in talking about cakes.

• 1:09:50Speaker 03

  Yeah?

• 1:09:51Josh Clark?

  Yeah. This is where cakes were born, really.

• 1:09:54Speaker 03

  Uh, the pineapple upside down cake. Heaven help you if you eat that stuff.

• 1:10:00Josh Clark?

  I love it.

• 1:10:00Speaker 03

  Do you really?

• 1:10:01Josh Clark?

  Man, it's so good. Yeah.

• 1:10:02Speaker 03

  I just don't like fruit anywhere near my cake.

• 1:10:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:05Speaker 03

  Unless it's strawberry shortcake.

• 1:10:06Josh Clark?

  You definitely wouldn't like a hummingbird cake then even.

• 1:10:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, maybe that's the difference between the hummingbird and the banana bread.

• 1:10:15Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:10:15Speaker 03

  Although banana's in there.

• 1:10:18Josh Clark?

  Right, that's a, well.

• 1:10:19Speaker 03

  See, that's not a fruitcake to me.

• 1:10:21Josh Clark?

  No. You just don't like the juicy fruits in your cake, it sounds like.

• 1:10:27Speaker 03

  No, or coconut, which isn't the German chocolate cake, isn't coconut in the icing?

• 1:10:33Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, see that.

• 1:10:34Josh Clark?

  That's so good.

• 1:10:35Speaker 03

  I don't want coconut anywhere near my cakes.

• 1:10:38Speaker 03

  But that pineapple upside down cake, apparently that stuff sort of sprang out of a contest. Dole had, the Dole Company in the mid 1920s, that said, hey, bake some cakes with fruit. And so thousands of pineapple upside down cakes came out. So I don't think they were invented for that. But maybe that's just what made them so popular. I don't know.

• 1:11:00Josh Clark?

  Gotcha. And then there's other, again, there's cakes around the world that look like cakes, kind of like tiramisu.

• 1:11:06Speaker 03

  Yum.

• 1:11:06Josh Clark?

  Is a quintessential Italian cake, but it was invented in the 1960s. Black Forest Cake actually is from Germany. It was invented in 1915. So what happened was, again, cake explosion happened here in the good old US of A. And it spread back out to the world. There was an influx of cake ideas into America. America perfected the cake and it went back out to the world.

• 1:11:32Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:11:32Josh Clark?

  That's what happened.

• 1:11:34Speaker 03

  What else? What about tres leches?

• 1:11:37Josh Clark?

  It's great, too. Three kinds of milk, evaporated, condensed, and whole. It's tough to go wrong with that.

• 1:11:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, talk about moist.

• 1:11:45Josh Clark?

  And I've, like, I've had good and bad tres leches, but I've never had an actual tres leches that I was like, this is so bad, I'm not gonna finish it.

• 1:11:53Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:11:54Josh Clark?

  Have you?

• 1:11:54Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:11:55Josh Clark?

  And then there's dora yaki, which is like, have you ever had this?

• 1:12:01Speaker 03

  I don't think so.

• 1:12:03Josh Clark?

  One of the big things that people in Japan love is like sweetened red bean paste.

• 1:12:10Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:12:11Josh Clark?

  You can find it here or there in like sweets, but this doryaki in particular is like between two pancakes. It's like a filling. Sometimes it's not even two pancakes. It's like a hole with like a red bean paste inside.

• 1:12:23Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:12:24Josh Clark?

  It's like this light, kind of fluffy, cake-like thing with red bean paste inside. It's good. You can, they're best like hot off of the street from somebody who just made it. That's when it's absolutely best, but it's like the kind of thing you can also find in a 7-Eleven or something too, like in cellophane.

• 1:12:40Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:12:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it's good. It's no cheesecake, no Japanese cheesecake, I'll tell you that.

• 1:12:45Speaker 03

  Nope.

• 1:12:46Josh Clark?

  But it's still pretty good.

• 1:12:48Speaker 03

  Man, that was a good one, I think.

• 1:12:50Josh Clark?

  Cakes. All right. Are you done?

• 1:12:54Speaker 03

  I'm done.

• 1:12:54Josh Clark?

  Okay. If you want to know more about cakes, go eat some. You're gonna love them.

• 1:12:59Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:13:00Josh Clark?

  There's a cake out there for you. And since I said that, it's time for listener mail.

• 1:13:06Speaker 03

  All right, I'm gonna call this a special one-man administrative details shout.

• 1:13:14Josh Clark?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:13:14Speaker 03

  Cause we got a box today from a man named Nick Pagan from San Jose, Bay Area, and he sent us just a blotted stuff.

• 1:13:25Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:13:25Speaker 03

  Like good stuff. It wasn't a box full of garbage. He sent, uh...

• 1:13:30Josh Clark?

  Not that anyone ever has sent us a box full of garbage.

• 1:13:33Speaker 03

  He sent us framed things, sent me a framed pavement poster, which is great.

• 1:13:40Josh Clark?

  Very nice.

• 1:13:40Speaker 03

  And sent us CDs of music. He sent bottles of liquid stuff, most notably wine for Jerry, and then bourbon and scotch for us.

• 1:13:51Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:13:52Speaker 03

  And he is a whiskey enthusiast that lives in the Bay Area. Like, big time?

• 1:13:56Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:57Speaker 03

  And just a good dude. And beyond that, he added this. He added, he's a list maker, an amateur list maker.

• 1:14:05Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:14:06Speaker 03

  And he sent us a list, and Nick, if you're listening, please send us the Word document, digital version of this printout that you sent. Because he said, every time you said we should do a podcast on that.

• 1:14:18Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:19Speaker 03

  He made a list alphabetically of that stuff.

• 1:14:21Josh Clark?

  Nice work, Nick.

• 1:14:22Speaker 03

  And the list is so comprehensive and awesome that we need it to work from.

• 1:14:27Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 1:14:28Speaker 03

  He made a-

• 1:14:28Josh Clark?

  Please do.

• 1:14:28Speaker 03

  He made a list of films that each of us said we need to see.

• 1:14:32Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:14:33Speaker 03

  Which is pretty good. And then finally, he sent us a list and encouraged us to play a little game here, which we'll do very quickly, of see if Chuck can, see if Josh can guess how many times we've done the following things. You ready?

• 1:14:48Josh Clark?

  Why me?

• 1:14:49Speaker 03

  Well, because I have the list in my hand, and you're sitting across from me, and you can't see it through this paper, I don't think. So how many COAs, and for people that don't know, it means cover our butts, how many COAs have we issued over a thousand shows?

• 1:15:05Josh Clark?

  I'm going to say 27.

• 1:15:08Speaker 03

  75.

• 1:15:09Josh Clark?

  Wow. Wow, we are really good at that, huh?

• 1:15:13Speaker 03

  How many times have we admitted on the air that it is a take two?

• 1:15:18Josh Clark?

  Man.

• 1:15:19Speaker 03

  You're not gonna get any of these, or maybe you might.

• 1:15:21Josh Clark?

  It'll be total luck if I do. Eight.

• 1:15:24Speaker 03

  Seven.

• 1:15:25Josh Clark?

  Oh, so close.

• 1:15:26Speaker 03

  Rare listener mail shout-outs.

• 1:15:28Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm. Oh, I don't know what that means.

• 1:15:32Speaker 03

  Like where we say, hey, can you say hello to my boyfriend?

• 1:15:35Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah. Three.

• 1:15:37Speaker 03

  No, 62.

• 1:15:39Josh Clark?

  What?

• 1:15:39Speaker 03

  That's pretty rare, though, out of a thousand.

• 1:15:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah, but still, it seems like I thought it was even rarer than that. Did we used to do it more than we do now?

• 1:15:47Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 1:15:48Josh Clark?

  I think that's what it was.

• 1:15:49Speaker 03

  We were a little more generous in our earlier days.

• 1:15:50Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:51Speaker 03

  Trips in the Wayback Machine.

• 1:15:53Josh Clark?

  Oh, there's a lot of those. I'm gonna say, out of a thousand episodes? 320.

• 1:15:59Speaker 03

  He says 59, so I don't know about this, Nick.

• 1:16:02Josh Clark?

  I think he missed a few. Nick, you're just making up numbers, aren't you? Drinking scotch at home and making up numbers.

• 1:16:08Speaker 03

  How many paper lists have you eaten?

• 1:16:11Josh Clark?

  Me?

• 1:16:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16:12Josh Clark?

  One that I know of.

• 1:16:14Speaker 03

  Yep, you nailed it.

• 1:16:15Josh Clark?

  I remember the episode, too. It was how geniuses work or what makes a genius.

• 1:16:20Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 1:16:21Josh Clark?

  And I said that if this list, if the list of geniuses, if the number one genius was Einstein, I would eat the list. And it turned out it was Einstein.

• 1:16:29Speaker 03

  Uh, how many Glenn Danzig or Misfits references? Those would be all you.

• 1:16:33Josh Clark?

  Seventeen.

• 1:16:35Speaker 03

  Four.

• 1:16:36Josh Clark?

  Need to step it up.

• 1:16:38Speaker 03

  Uh, how many times has Chuck was, how many times have I done this?

• 1:16:41Josh Clark?

  Wow.

• 1:16:44Josh Clark?

  I think it's literally countless. If he came up with a number, it's a lie.

• 1:16:47Speaker 03

  He says 288.

• 1:16:49Josh Clark?

  That's gotta be more than that.

• 1:16:50Speaker 03

  Uh, Simpsons references, I'll just go ahead and tell you, 197. Apparently, we have high five.

• 1:16:57Josh Clark?

  Does that include the two episodes on The Simpsons?

• 1:16:59Speaker 03

  No, no, no, I don't think so.

• 1:16:59Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 1:17:00Speaker 03

  Um, apparently, we have high fived once.

• 1:17:03Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 1:17:03Speaker 03

  I'm surprised we even did that.

• 1:17:05Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 1:17:05Speaker 03

  Uh, the number of times Josh has done this, a lot.

• 1:17:11Josh Clark?

  Uh, I don't know. I think a lot just, just works for that.

• 1:17:16Speaker 03

  426 times.

• 1:17:19Speaker 03

  Almost half our episodes. That's great.

• 1:17:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:22Speaker 03

  Um, and then bonus, name all of Josh's nicknames for Chuck. I'll just go ahead and read those. Uh, you have called me chuckers. You've called me beautiful. I don't remember that one. Uh, the famous Chuck Tran, Cheech, Rusty, Zonkers, and The Flash.

• 1:17:41Speaker 03

  Nick is my new favorite listener. This is all gold.

• 1:17:45Josh Clark?

  Plus, thanks for, uh, for buttering us up with the care package, too, Nick. That was nice of you.

• 1:17:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, so Nick Pagan, you are now on the guest list for the San Francisco Sketch Fest show. Uh, just hit me up with an email. Send that list of shows that we need to do via digital document. And you are in like Flynn.

• 1:18:04Josh Clark?

  Cool. Thanks a lot, Nick. Well, if you want to be like Nick, uh, you can send us an email, [email protected]. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.

• 1:18:18Speaker 04

  Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, MyHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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