Selects: Are crickets the future of food?

Crickets are part of a larger insect-based diet enjoyed in most parts of the world. Loaded with vitamins, minerals and protein, and green to boot, crickets could help solve some of the world's food problems if Europe and America get on board. Learn all about cricket farming in this classic episode. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Josh Clark?

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• 1:01Speaker 02

  Hi, everyone. I hope you're having a great weekend so far. Do you want to know about crickets and how you can sustain yourself on them? Well, then listen to this episode. Are crickets the future of food? And this is from September 7th, 2017. I hope you enjoy it all over again.

• 1:23Speaker 03

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

• 1:33Josh Clark?

  Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh W. Chuck Clark. There's Charles Malcolm Bryant.

• 1:43Josh Clark?

  And there's Jerry the Wiz Roland.

• 1:45Speaker 02

  It sounds like an Aaron Cooper poster gone bad.

• 1:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:48Speaker 02

  Already.

• 1:49Josh Clark?

  Yeah. People have like the swirly face, like the weird people in Jacob's Ladder.

• 1:54Speaker 02

  It's funny, we had a office visitor a couple of weeks ago and I don't think you were here. And in fact, I know you weren't here because you would have been in here.

• 2:00Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 2:01Speaker 02

  Uh, but there was a, there's our great Step Brothers. You know, the movie Step Brothers, for those of you out here, uh, out there, there's a promo of John C. Reilly and Will Ferrell. With, as like, uh, with an Olin Mills type, uh, you know, posed photograph. And Aaron Cooper, our buddy from Kansas, who does our great Photoshop stuff, uh, made us into, I was John C. Reilly and you were Will Ferrell. And the guy came in and was looking around and was like, oh man, these are great. And he went, God, look at that. And he went, that looks like, I don't know, it looks like it could be like something like the movie Step Brother or something. And I said, oh, that's exactly what it is.

• 2:40Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 2:41Speaker 02

  I tried to make him not feel bad.

• 2:43Josh Clark?

  That was nice of you. That was very gracious of you as a host.

• 2:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, it, it like, he didn't quite zone in on all of them or us.

• 2:51Josh Clark?

  I got you. You should have like clapped loudly beside his ear.

• 2:57Speaker 02

  Uh, man, I had a little scary thing today.

• 3:00Josh Clark?

  What happened?

• 3:01Speaker 02

  If I may, this is kind of part PSA. This has nothing to do with cricket farming.

• 3:05Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 3:06Speaker 02

  But, um, we're getting our, uh, our basement waterproofed. Because for 13 years, it's been leaking water. Like really bad. Uh, so much so that we have mold now.

• 3:18Josh Clark?

  Oh yeah, black mold?

• 3:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:20Josh Clark?

  Oh no.

• 3:20Speaker 02

  We're also getting mold remediation done at the same time.

• 3:23Josh Clark?

  Man.

• 3:23Speaker 02

  So needless to say, that's a fun, fun way to spend a lot of money. Um, but I come home today and my carbon monoxide alarm is going off.

• 3:34Josh Clark?

  Oh man.

• 3:35Speaker 02

  Because these yahoos are using a gas powered concrete saw in our basement.

• 3:40Josh Clark?

  No.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  And it's like full on saying, you know, get out of the house. And my animals are in there, so.

• 3:47Josh Clark?

  Oh man.

• 3:48Speaker 02

  Like, and I just happened to go home after I went to a coffee shop to study because. I needed to grab something, but like I literally could have come home to dead animals.

• 3:58Josh Clark?

  Man.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  And dead workmen in the basement.

• 4:01Josh Clark?

  Yeah, those guys too. Wow, I bet they're not the sharpest tacks in the box anymore.

• 4:06Speaker 02

  It was weird, man. And they were down there. I mean, not only did they not have on so much as a dust mask for the gas, but like concrete dust is really dangerous too.

• 4:15Josh Clark?

  They're like, I don't care. I've got Obamacare.

• 4:18Speaker 02

  It was so weird, man. And just it freaked me out to the point where Emily, she wanted to like fire the guy. He wasn't even there, like the, you know, the foreman or owner of the company.

• 4:28Josh Clark?

  His subs were there?

• 4:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. And she wanted to be like, man, if he doesn't understand that this is dangerous. And he said, you know, open up your windows. It'll be clear in 15 minutes. And it took two hours for that alarm to stop going off.

• 4:40Josh Clark?

  Oh my gosh. Wow. That is really scary.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  It was really bad, man. I was out on my deck basically for the rest of the morning until I came in with my dogs and my cat in a crate.

• 4:51Josh Clark?

  Man, that's like how some people commit suicide.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  I know.

• 4:55Josh Clark?

  You know?

• 4:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:56Josh Clark?

  And these guys are just doing it gratis for you.

• 4:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was weird.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, anyway, so I'm slightly shaken.

• 5:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I bet. I'm glad you made it, man. You look good. You look okay.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 5:08Josh Clark?

  You look healthy. Your pallor isn't gaunt.

• 5:13Josh Clark?

  I think you're, you're okay.

• 5:14Speaker 02

  Oh, I just gotta calm down here. The, the sound of the crickets on our miniature cricket farm here are soothing me at least.

• 5:21Josh Clark?

  I know. They put me to sleep.

• 5:23Speaker 02

  I'm glad we set that up.

• 5:24Josh Clark?

  That was pretty good. That was one of our better segues, sadly enough.

• 5:28Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 5:30Josh Clark?

  Yeah, we are talking crickets, aren't we?

• 5:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, we covered entomophagy. I meant to look up when, but it was, seems like a long time ago.

• 5:38Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 5:38Speaker 02

  And that's eating bugs and insects. But this is focusing specifically on crickets because by all accounts, they seem like sort of the, our best bet at trying to get something like this going in America for real.

• 5:54Josh Clark?

  Yeah, they're, I mean, they're pretty easy to raise. They don't require much space. You can set up your own cricket farm at home.

• 6:04Josh Clark?

  And really, we should say the, the point of all this, the whole reason anybody would want people to start raising crickets at home is because the, um, well, the, the earth is about to collapse. And our, um, food supply is in, in real danger, right? So I've got some stats for you, Chuck.

• 6:24Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 6:26Josh Clark?

  So meat consumption per capita has, um, increased into the developed world. Actually, it's doubled in the last 30 years.

• 6:35Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 6:36Josh Clark?

  And that's thanks in no small part to, uh, the rise of, um, the BRIC countries, Brazil, Russia, India, and China, who have huge massive populations. And as they entered capitalist, um, the capitalist global economy, um, have generally become enriched. And the more money they have, the more meat, uh, civilization tends to consume, at least these days, right?

• 6:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:59Josh Clark?

  So that doesn't seem bad in and of itself until you look into what kind of resources it takes to actually raise meat. So you ready for this one?

• 7:07Speaker 02

  Hmm, I don't know. I'm afraid.

• 7:10Josh Clark?

  To produce one pound of meat, that's a half a kilo, basically, of meat.

• 7:17Speaker 02

  Is this beef?

• 7:18Josh Clark?

  Beef, sorry, yeah.

• 7:21Josh Clark?

  It requires about 2,400 gallons of water.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  I've heard stuff like that before.

• 7:25Josh Clark?

  Which is like absolutely nuts, even when you consider that not only are you watering the cow, you're also watering, you know, the, the crops that you feed to the cow. So there's double water consumption. But one of the problem, one of the reasons cattle, beef requires so much, um, water is because you only consume 40% of the cow.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:48Josh Clark?

  So 60% of the water is going to sustain parts of the cow you're not even eating, right? So there's a lot of wasted water, even if your water delivery system is 100% efficient, right?

• 7:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:00Josh Clark?

  That's just water. 51% of the greenhouse gases that are emitted on planet earth come from animal agriculture.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:10Josh Clark?

  51%. And, um, one third of the world's adequate or high quality cropland has been lost to erosion or pollution in the last 40 years. Now, that's a huge problem, whether we are all vegetarians or not, because we're talking cropland, but we use way more cropland to feed our livestock than we do to feed ourselves, right? Something like 56 million acres of land are used to grow crops in the United States to feed animals. Four million are used to grow crops for human consumption. So there's a lot, a lot of resources that are used up just from meat-based diets, right?

• 8:53Josh Clark?

  A lot of people say, well, just go to plant-based diets. And other people say, you can't get enough protein from plant-based diets, which apparently is not true from, from what I'm seeing. Other people are saying, fine, you want some protein? I got something for you. And it's crickets.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm kind of, I'm not surprised, but it goes to show you the population boom if meat consumption has increased that much in the face of probably more vegetarianism and veganism than ever before, too, you know?

• 9:24Josh Clark?

  Well, that's kind of heartening. Like, if, if there does seem to be, if, I guess if, if societies follow.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'd like, we should, I mean, we've been dancing around doing episodes on vegetarianism and veganism for a while, so we should probably tackle that at some point.

• 9:39Josh Clark?

  All right.

• 9:40Speaker 02

  I'm kind of curious about the history, uh, cause it seems like in the, like, probably since the onset of America until, uh, and then I'm just, I'm talking off my, off the top of my head here, but until probably the nineties, it seemed like everybody was just like, meat, meat, meat, meat, meat.

• 10:00Josh Clark?

  Well, there's a, I mean, it's definitely associated with wealth, right? If you can afford to eat a nice steak, kind of indicates you have a certain amount of status in your society, right?

• 10:11Speaker 02

  Well, like the fifties, it seems like they would eat steak for lunch.

• 10:14Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 10:14Speaker 02

  And I can't imagine like a steak for lunch that seems so indulgent.

• 10:19Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I think it is.

• 10:20Speaker 02

  You know?

• 10:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 10:21Speaker 02

  Like, yeah, just give me, give me the 20-ounce ribeye for lunch.

• 10:25Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 10:25Speaker 02

  It's just, I don't know, I can't imagine that. And three martinis.

• 10:30Josh Clark?

  I don't argue with that part. That is pretty indulgent, three martinis and a 20-ounce ribeye for lunch.

• 10:37Speaker 02

  I mean, that was Don Draper, you know?

• 10:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I never saw that show.

• 10:41Speaker 02

  I know.

• 10:41Josh Clark?

  I never saw it.

• 10:43Speaker 02

  It's, it's available.

• 10:44Josh Clark?

  Where?

• 10:47Josh Clark?

  Is it out there really? I thought they erased it all.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, they did.

• 10:51Josh Clark?

  They said, that's it. It's done.

• 10:53Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 10:54Josh Clark?

  Didn't he go become a lumberjack in, at the end?

• 10:57Speaker 02

  No, he did not.

• 10:58Josh Clark?

  Oh, okay. Oh, that's Dexter.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  Uh, oh, man. I know we talked about the ending of that show, crazy.

• 11:05Josh Clark?

  I, I actually never saw the end of that one. You just told me about it.

• 11:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think you told it to yourself just to watch the finale.

• 11:12Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 11:13Speaker 02

  Um, so this dude, Kevin, uh, how would you pronounce that?

• 11:17Josh Clark?

  Bach Huber.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  B A C H, which is fine. That's clearly Bach and H U B R. You just don't often see two H's side by side.

• 11:27Josh Clark?

  No.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  So anyway, Kevin Bachuba. Uh, is a dude that is kind of championing, well, not kind of, very much championing this movement. Uh, in 2007, he went to Thailand and tasted crickets, uh, deep fried crickets. And, uh, he's from California and he was like, hey, this is really good.

• 11:46Josh Clark?

  He's been far out.

• 11:47Speaker 02

  They've been doing this, um, in Thailand since the late nineties, the king established a big growing program, uh, for crickets and cricket farms, um, education in schools, like, you know, this is a good way to get protein in your diet. And he said, I think this is

• 12:06Speaker 02

  the direction America should go, and I'm going to get in on the, the, the money side of it.

• 12:12Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  Like the farming of it.

• 12:14Josh Clark?

  Apparently it's a $20 million industry already.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  Not bad.

• 12:18Josh Clark?

  No, it isn't. Um, and we should say that Bach Huber was, is one of several, um, people who are into this, uh, the idea of cricket farming, commercial cricket farming.

• 12:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 12:30Josh Clark?

  And he's definitely one of the OGs for sure. His business was the first to get approval to sell crickets as food in the United States. He got FDA approval because the, the cricket industry actually is kind of old. Well, it's not too old, but I saw anywhere between 50 and 70 years old in the US. Um, and they're raised to say feed fish for commercial fish farming or to grind up as a protein supplement for, um, livestock feed. So people have been raising crickets for a while or to feed to like reptiles, um, to sell them to pet stores.

• 13:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:07Josh Clark?

  So there, there was an established infrastructure of cricket farming. But the, making the transition from selling it to feed to cows or fish or snakes to selling it to people to eat directly, that's, that was a big step and Bach Huber was the, the first one to take it in the U.S. I, I should just say, the reason I point out, he's just one of many is because

• 13:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:31Josh Clark?

  this How Stuff Works article was basically like, here's my report on Kevin Bach Huber's Ted, Ted Talk.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  Sort of.

• 13:38Josh Clark?

  You know?

• 13:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:40Josh Clark?

  And I think just, he's, he definitely deserves, you know, credit because he's leading the charge, but so are other people as well.

• 13:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's woven throughout this thing though.

• 13:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  And, you know, if you listen to the entomophagy episode, episode?

• 13:53Josh Clark?

  No, it's, it's episode.

• 13:57Speaker 02

  We pointed out then, and it bears repeating, that, uh, America is new to this, but I think it was like Canada, the United States and, and Western Europe are literally the only places on earth that don't consume insects as a regular part of their diet these days.

• 14:13Josh Clark?

  So I saw, so this article kind of says the, the standard 80% of the world regularly consumes insects as part of their diet. I saw that there's a, a food and agriculture organization, the U.N. organization report said something, it was more like about a third of the population, so rather than 80%, maybe like 30 to 35%, which is still significant.

• 14:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a big difference.

• 14:38Josh Clark?

  It is. And in, in the West specifically, the idea of eating bugs is not, it's not commonplace, right? And I actually saw a pretty good explanation for why. Like 13 of the 14 large livestock animals that are domesticated are found in Eurasia and made their way over to the Americas.

• 15:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 15:06Josh Clark?

  And those things, those animals provide not just meat, but also things like milk.

• 15:12Josh Clark?

  Clothing, everything, basically. So, since these, what you would call, Western countries had access to these domesticated animals, they never needed bugs as a food source.

• 15:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:25Josh Clark?

  And then, secondly, since they were raising domesticated animals, by definition, they had a sedentary agricultural lifestyle, which meant that their exposure to bugs was bugs as pests.

• 15:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 15:42Josh Clark?

  So, not only were bugs not edible, they were something that were just undesirable on their face.

• 15:48Speaker 02

  Oh, sure.

• 15:49Josh Clark?

  So, that led to the... It closed the door on bugs being eaten by Westerners. And so, that came to be filled by a sense of disgust, which is a basic human emotion, but it's the only one that's culturally bound, which means you learn what is disgusting from your cultural group.

• 16:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 16:13Josh Clark?

  But that also means you can unlearn it, too.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  Well, if Big Cricket has anything to do with it.

• 16:20Speaker 02

  Why don't we take a quick break? And we're going to come back and talk about a UN report that kind of changed a lot of things about four years ago.

• 16:40Speaker 02

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• 18:33Speaker 02

  All right, so I promised you a UN report.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  2013, there was a big kind of sea change. I don't know about sea change.

• 18:43Josh Clark?

  It was the beginning.

• 18:44Speaker 02

  Beginning of a sea change.

• 18:45Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:46Speaker 02

  They issued a report called Edible Insects: Cool and Future Prospects for Food and Feed Security. And it was basically just championing entomophagy and all the benefits that surround it, like how nutrient-dense crickets and other insects are.

• 19:03Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:04Speaker 02

  The fact that it's socially sustainable, economically viable, and friendly, environmentally friendly. And it kind of... You know, kind of paints it as like, hey, this, this is the future, or it could be part of the future at least, of getting protein into, you know, Americans.

• 19:24Josh Clark?

  Right. And the, the report itself didn't focus exclusively on crickets, but crickets feature prominently in the report.

• 19:30Speaker 02

  They're the star.

• 19:31Josh Clark?

  It was about, it was about bugs in general and eating bugs in general. And it was, it made a pretty big splash. I remember when it came out, like it really hit the news cycle pretty hard. But it also caught the attention of that Bakhuber guy who said, all right, I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna get into this because he'd already been exposed to eating crickets in Thailand. And then that, when that UN report came out, he, I think, began his startup here in the States of his commercial cricket farm startup.

• 19:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's funny. They had, they put in this article that it was the most popular document in the history of the UN.

• 20:06Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I didn't, I didn't see that anywhere. I think that was, he said that at his TED report.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:11Josh Clark?

  But, um, yeah, it definitely made a splash. I'll give them that for sure.

• 20:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, he spoke at a TEDx Youngstown, Ohio, because that's where he's based. That's where his company is.

• 20:22Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  And I guess he, he just made up his own TEDx probably.

• 20:25Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 20:26Speaker 02

  All right. So let's talk about crickets. Well, all insects in particular are very rich in protein, like we've talked about. They have a lot of healthy fats.

• 20:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 20:36Speaker 02

  A lot of zinc, a lot of iron, a lot of calcium. And there's something called, I guess, efficient animals.

• 20:46Josh Clark?

  Well, yeah.

• 20:47Speaker 02

  I mean, and this is when vegetarians and vegans are, like, these kind of terms make their skin crawl, I'm sure. But the kind of efficiency you get out of raising and killing and eating an animal is on a spectrum. And, you know, from cows, like you talked about, it's probably the worst, I would guess, don't you think?

• 21:06Josh Clark?

  Right, right. The animal itself is efficient at converting food that you feed it into stuff that you can get from it.

• 21:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, like you said, not a lot of the cow is used to eat.

• 21:20Josh Clark?

  No, it's like forty percent of a cow is edible and digestible.

• 21:24Speaker 02

  And I think the chicken is about the most efficient animal protein right now.

• 21:29Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  But nothing like crickets.

• 21:31Josh Clark?

  So there's two different things here, right? So you've got efficiency in nutrient conversion, which is say, like if you eat an apple, you can convert, you know, X amount of the energy available in the apple into, you know, energy for yourself, metabolism, right?

• 21:48Speaker 02

  And poop.

• 21:49Josh Clark?

  Right. Yeah, but poop is waste. So that stuff wouldn't count toward efficiency. It would actually subtract from your efficiency and lower your efficiency. If you ate an apple and used every bit of it and it produced zero poop, you would have one hundred percent efficiently converted that apple into useful energy, right?

• 22:08Speaker 02

  And that'd be a weird apple.

• 22:09Josh Clark?

  It would be. It'd be a magic apple and you wouldn't need a poop chute.

• 22:14Josh Clark?

  But instead you do because there is no such thing as a hundred percent efficiency in any animal, right?

• 22:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 22:20Josh Clark?

  But some are better than others, like you were saying. And with a cricket, it's something like, they're like twelve times more efficient at converting food into usable energy or stored, in this case, stored protein, right?

• 22:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:36Josh Clark?

  So for every kilogram of live cricket weight, which is a pretty substantial amount of crickets, but kilogram to kilogram or pound to pound, it just takes one point seven kilograms of feed to produce one kilogram of live crickets. Not bad. For a cow, it takes ten kilograms of feed to produce one kilogram of beef. Very inefficient by comparison. So if you take the fact that it doesn't take much feed to produce a biomass of crickets and that crickets are eighty percent edible and digestible compared to the cow's forty percent edible and digestible, then you really have a

• 23:19Josh Clark?

  If you're just going pound to pound or kilogram to kilogram, and much more nutrient dense, much more efficient, and then therefore much less, much less wasteful animal that you could eat.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, a lot of that has to do with the fact that crickets are cold-blooded, so they're very much more efficient at converting that feed into protein. And crickets aren't even the most efficient insect.

• 23:42Josh Clark?

  No, no.

• 23:44Speaker 02

  I'm not sure which one is, actually.

• 23:46Josh Clark?

  I think mealworms are pretty efficient.

• 23:50Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. He just said that because you're eating a mealworm.

• 23:54Josh Clark?

  Right. Well, I have a mealworm farm. I was gonna ask you to buy in on.

• 23:58Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 23:59Josh Clark?

  Uh huh.

• 24:00Speaker 02

  All right.

• 24:00Josh Clark?

  In my pocket. See?

• 24:02Speaker 02

  Is that a mealworm farm in your pocket?

• 24:05Josh Clark?

  It is. My pocket mulch.

• 24:08Speaker 02

  Uh, so like we mentioned, Mr. Bachruba is, um, if he's not German, he should be.

• 24:15Josh Clark?

  Kevin Bachruber? I think he's a...

• 24:18Speaker 02

  But it's spelled...

• 24:20Josh Clark?

  He's Irish-German, maybe.

• 24:22Speaker 02

  It's spelled K V N, though, so we're just inserting vowels for him.

• 24:26Josh Clark?

  Right, like D N C E.

• 24:28Speaker 02

  What's that?

• 24:30Josh Clark?

  It's this band.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. Probably a young person's band?

• 24:34Josh Clark?

  I believe so.

• 24:36Speaker 02

  No wonder I don't know. Uh, but he is one, I think they're about, and this has probably changed even since this is written, about 25 or so cricket startup farms here in the United States.

• 24:46Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I couldn't find the current number.

• 24:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's just say at least 25.

• 24:50Josh Clark?

  Okay. Although I'll bet they go under pretty quick.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  You think so?

• 24:55Josh Clark?

  Uh, I could see, I could see losing your shirt on cricket farming right now. It's so, it's just so early.

• 25:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, true.

• 25:03Josh Clark?

  And, and the, the market is so not there, and the, the stuff they're producing is so expensive.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  Well, and their output right now is still really small, um, in the, in the early years here. But, uh, you know, the dream for... For him and all these cricket farmers is that one day it will, it will, I don't think they have designs that will ever be like in some parts of the world where it's on every menu in every restaurant, but they would certainly like to see cricket snacks in grocery stores and menu offerings and some, some of the more wacky hipster restaurants.

• 25:38Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  At least.

• 25:40Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Did you, do you watch Shark Tank?

• 25:42Speaker 02

  Oh, you know, I do.

• 25:43Josh Clark?

  Okay. So did you see the one with Rose Wang and Laura DeZario?

• 25:47Speaker 02

  I've seen them all.

• 25:48Josh Clark?

  Okay. So you saw the one with chirps. Their snack, their cricket based snack product chirps. I want to try it.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  I do too. Um, I, I'm not like, I'm not an adventurous eater, as you know, but I would totally try fried crickets and things. That doesn't gross me out for some reason.

• 26:04Josh Clark?

  No, I, I, and I would try it as well. And do you, I don't know if you remember or not, but when we did that, uh, locust thing for Science Channel, it's like the second time it's come up this month, weirdly enough. Um, they made fried locusts and I refused to eat them.

• 26:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 26:19Josh Clark?

  And it wasn't because I was grossed out. It was because I was sure that I was going to have some sort of weird allergic reaction to them.

• 26:26Speaker 02

  Oh, right.

• 26:27Josh Clark?

  And I would have had.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  Shellfish, right?

• 26:28Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah. And I would have had to have been like, you know, life flighted somewhere to a hospital and would have missed my flight home. Um, that is the only reason I didn't eat them. It had nothing to do with disgust. But in that UN report, they address allergies and they said that it's actually exceedingly rare that somebody has an allergic reaction to an arthropod.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:51Josh Clark?

  Or to an insect, I should say. Um, but the reason why I thought so is because yeah, I had had, um, I like a shrimp blow up once.

• 27:01Speaker 02

  Right.

• 27:01Josh Clark?

  And I just was not about to roll the dice on that, not for what Science Channel was paying us.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  Well, I think it's very funny that you, uh, I remember your shrimp, uh, Your shrimp years in that you had an allergic reaction to shrimp.

• 27:17Josh Clark?

  Mm hmm.

• 27:18Speaker 02

  But you wanted to eat shrimp so bad, you started to eat shrimp a little bit just to see if you could eat shrimp.

• 27:25Josh Clark?

  Yeah, shrimp chips.

• 27:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:27Josh Clark?

  Uh, which use real shrimp powder. It's like a, I think Japanese or Korean or Chinese delicacy.

• 27:32Speaker 02

  But now you can eat shrimp, right?

• 27:33Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I did immunotherapy and now I'm fine. I can eat shrimp all day long.

• 27:37Speaker 02

  I just love that you were so dedicated to eating shrimp.

• 27:40Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I love shrimp, man. Good shrimp, like seasoned with Old Bay, just simple stuff. Oh, man, so good.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  Uh, this is a great time to bring up one of my big pet peeves.

• 27:50Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 27:50Speaker 02

  I know that cooking with shrimp heads and tails on increases the flavor quite a bit.

• 27:55Josh Clark?

  Does it?

• 27:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:56Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 27:56Speaker 02

  Uh, which is why they do it. Um, but it's one thing if you get an appetizer with like the, the, uh, the, like a prawn with the head left on or something.

• 28:07Josh Clark?

  Uh huh.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  But if you, like, I get pasta dishes sometimes.

• 28:11Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  That have like heads and tails on them.

• 28:14Josh Clark?

  If there's a fork involved, you don't want to have to put your fork down and take the head and tail off.

• 28:18Speaker 02

  No, like you literally have to dig them out of the pasta, take the head and tail off, and then put them back in your food.

• 28:23Josh Clark?

  Right, right.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  Which is just, I, I don't get why restaurants do that. Like, maybe cook it in there and then take it off for us.

• 28:31Josh Clark?

  So I ran across a reason probably why.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  All right, let's hear it.

• 28:34Josh Clark?

  There's something called chitin, which makes up the exoskeleton of, um,

• 28:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:39Josh Clark?

  of bugs, but it also makes up the shells of crustaceans as well. Um, and chitin supposedly, if you don't have an allergic reaction to it, chitin is apparently good for, it's, it's said to be good for weight loss.

• 28:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:57Josh Clark?

  Um, digestion, it aids in digestion allegedly. Um, and I think it has something to do with your blood pressure too. And in other countries, non, non, non-Western countries, I think they prescribe chitin quite a bit. It's like a dietary supplement. Um, and I saw one study that said, yeah, it had a little bit of an effect, a little more than placebo, but not clinically significant. But it was just one study. So I'm, I'm curious if, if chitin actually does have an effect, but it's possible they're saying you should eat the whole thing.

• 29:29Speaker 02

  Well, that's what I was gonna ask.

• 29:30Josh Clark?

  All the shell.

• 29:31Speaker 02

  What?

• 29:32Josh Clark?

  They, I mean, it's, I don't know. They could also just be a fat lazy chef, you know?

• 29:36Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I'll eat a soft shell crab till the cows come home. But I'm not eating a shrimp tail.

• 29:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it sounds gross.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  Well, it's just not like, uh, they don't soften up enough, you know?

• 29:49Josh Clark?

  But if you think about it, though, if you're eating a fried cricket or something, you're eating the whole thing. Shell and all, antenna.

• 29:56Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, but I throw that in the, in the soft shell crab zone.

• 30:00Josh Clark?

  So you ate the shell of the soft shell crab?

• 30:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what you're supposed to do. That's what it is.

• 30:04Josh Clark?

  I don't know that I've ever had soft shell crab.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  Oh, my friend.

• 30:08Josh Clark?

  Is that like a blue crab?

• 30:10Speaker 02

  No, I think it's a special kind of crab.

• 30:13Josh Clark?

  Oh.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  Uh, that has a-

• 30:14Josh Clark?

  Its parents must love it very much.

• 30:17Speaker 02

  I might be wrong. I think it's a special kind of crab and then you prepare it with the shell. But I think the shell is soft to begin with, though. I don't think it's just from cooking.

• 30:27Josh Clark?

  Hmm.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  But, uh, like spider roll is one of my favorite sushi rolls. That's soft shell crab.

• 30:33Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 30:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:34Josh Clark?

  I thought that was crab like spelled with a K, like fake crab.

• 30:37Speaker 02

  No, no, that like the little legs are coming out of the end and everything.

• 30:40Josh Clark?

  What?

• 30:42Speaker 02

  That's why they call it a spider roll, because it looks like little spider legs.

• 30:44Josh Clark?

  And I'll try that.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  And then, uh, like a soft shell crab sandwich is, I mean, you open the bun and there's just like this crab staring at you.

• 30:52Josh Clark?

  Yeah, going, how's it going? You're gonna eat me in a second, aren't you?

• 30:57Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm getting hungry now.

• 30:59Josh Clark?

  You wanna take a break real quick?

• 31:00Speaker 02

  Uh, well, quickly before, we just should mention that they did get a deal on Shark Tank.

• 31:05Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 31:06Speaker 02

  Uh, with Mark Cuban for chirps.

• 31:08Josh Clark?

  Right. We're contractually obligated to munch in Mark Cuban.

• 31:12Speaker 02

  That's right. We get our kickback coming.

• 31:15Josh Clark?

  I, I would try chirps for sure. If, uh, the chirps people are out there listening and you wanna send us some chirps, I will try them up.

• 31:22Speaker 02

  All right, so let's take that break.

• 31:24Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 31:37Speaker 02

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• 31:51Josh Clark?

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• 32:08Speaker 02

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• 32:19Josh Clark?

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• 32:43Speaker 02

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• 32:55Josh Clark?

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• 33:20Josh Clark?

  So Chuck, we said, I think I said, that one of the things that's holding this industry back right now is that it's so expensive, the products they're making. There's something called cricket flour, which is ground-up cricket meal, basically a protein powder made from crickets, right? And it's anywhere from like $35 to $50 a pound for it.

• 33:45Josh Clark?

  It's very expensive.

• 33:47Speaker 02

  A lot of money.

• 33:48Josh Clark?

  But it's really ironic because crickets require so much less space and food and water and electricity. It's apparently the the labor force that is the most expensive thing of any commercial cricket farm. Because there it's just hard to find people who can do that, even though it's not exactly hard. It's just there's a lot of trial and error going on. So from what I saw, it's the labor force that's that's eating up most of the the revenue or profits from cricket farming.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  Well, finding all those tiny people, those three inch people.

• 34:30Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 34:31Speaker 02

  It's not easy.

• 34:32Josh Clark?

  But there are startups also that are that are trying to sell like home cricket kits too.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:39Josh Clark?

  Because that's part of the the whole idea where if you're gonna get people to supplement their diet, well, just let them grow them at home too.

• 34:47Speaker 02

  So should we talk a little bit about this the farming?

• 34:50Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  So crickets live about seven weeks.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  I mean, that right there shows you a big difference between that and like the beef industry.

• 34:59Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  Uh, so during that seven week life cycle, they they have three different environments that they reside in. And they basically live and hang out on what they call cricket high rises, which are little egg cartons.

• 35:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I saw that the they have tried all sorts of different material and they keep going back to egg cartons. For some reason, crickets just love hanging out on egg cartons.

• 35:22Speaker 02

  Well, who doesn't? Uh, and what they eat is, uh, cause I was kind of wondering that. Uh, they eat grain based feed, organic grain based feed, um, fruits and vegetables. And they.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  Some of them will reach that breeding stage, some won't. And if they do, they're gonna lay a lot of eggs, like, you know, several thousand eggs a mommy cricket will lay in her lifetime.

• 35:46Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so many eggs, in fact, that they typically just throw most of them out. Like, they'll keep some to grow a new generation from, but there's just so many that are just tossed out because they don't have the capacity yet to grow them.

• 36:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:01Josh Clark?

  Um, so that, you know, they're, I think Bachhuber put it like, he could be drowning in eggs if he's not careful.

• 36:08Speaker 02

  Drowning in cricket eggs. He probably wakes up every night sweating.

• 36:13Speaker 02

  That recurring dream.

• 36:14Josh Clark?

  He probably really does wake up every night from the cricket chirping.

• 36:18Speaker 02

  Oh, I never really thought about that. That must be nice, actually.

• 36:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it can be.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  Uh, so they like hot, humid environments, or at least warm, depending on your definition of hot. It's hot to me. Uh, eighty-five to ninety-five degrees Fahrenheit with about a forty percent humidity level.

• 36:34Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 36:35Speaker 02

  And the whole process from soup to nuts, uh, or from eggs to chirps is about fifty-six days.

• 36:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 36:44Speaker 02

  Roughly.

• 36:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and if you, you can do this yourself at home, you just need basically two terrariums. You need to put them near heat, because that is substantial. Eighty-five to ninety-five degrees is hot, way hotter than you're gonna keep your house. So you do need like a heat lamp of some sort, and you need water, a source of water, too. Those are the two most important things with raising crickets. And the reason you have two terrariums is because in the one where you have like the thirty, uh, initial crickets, say, um, you're gonna put a dish of soil, and that's where they're going to lay their eggs. You wanna check the soil every day for eggs, and when you find eggs, you take that little soil dish out and put it in the other terrarium.

• 37:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:26Josh Clark?

  And then that's where the eggs are gonna grow and hatch. And, um, when the crickets hatch, they're fully formed. There's no larval stage, right? They don't go from like a maggot into a cricket. They're fully formed, they're just much smaller, right?

• 37:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:40Josh Clark?

  And according to Aristotle, it's about around here, uh, or maybe within the next like week or so that they're the most delicious.

• 37:48Speaker 02

  Aristotle?

• 37:49Josh Clark?

  Yeah, Aristotle wrote in his Historia Animalium, actually, he was writing about cicadas. That, um, they're better when, uh, they're before their last molt. So I guess that wouldn't apply to crickets. No, it would, because they molt.

• 38:02Speaker 02

  Do they?

• 38:03Josh Clark?

  They do molt. He also said that females taste best after copulation because they are full of eggs.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  After Aristotle has copulated?

• 38:11Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 38:11Speaker 02

  Or after?

• 38:12Josh Clark?

  Instead of a cigarette, you just eat a pregnant female cicada.

• 38:17Speaker 02

  Try this, baby.

• 38:18Josh Clark?

  Right. It'll knock your socks off.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  I bet Aristotle pillow talk was something else.

• 38:23Josh Clark?

  I don't think it was.

• 38:23Speaker 02

  You know?

• 38:24Josh Clark?

  Or it'd just be like, oh, man, he just keeps going on and on about cicadas.

• 38:31Speaker 02

  So harvesting, uh, I mean, there's no way around it. At some point, like any live thing that you're raising, you're gonna have to kill it. And instead of, um, like what we see on factory farms with cows and pigs, uh, what you do on a cricket farm is you cool them down and then freeze them. And so what happens is they, they get cold, they start to get a little chilly, their temperature drops and they go into what's called a diapause. Um, sort of a hibernation like state. And then pretty much after that, they go, it is, sure is chilly in here and then they're gone and frozen.

• 39:08Josh Clark?

  Yeah, apparently they eventually freeze solid. So they spend about 24 hours in the freezer and then they're ready to be sold.

• 39:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:15Josh Clark?

  Either ground into say like a powder or baked into a fried snack or sold to somebody else. But that's that. And I was like, do they wake up then if you, if you heat them up in a pan? But apparently after 24 hours and they're frozen solid, they're, they're dead.

• 39:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:33Josh Clark?

  But to them, it's just like going to sleep forever.

• 39:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, what, um, I kind of wonder when I was reading this, I was like, how do vegans or vegetarians feel about eating insects?

• 39:42Josh Clark?

  Supposedly it does not count as vegetarian.

• 39:45Speaker 02

  Well, it depends on who you ask. Um, I didn't get any, like, there is no official rulebook. Um.

• 39:51Josh Clark?

  There's not.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  I don't think so.

• 39:53Josh Clark?

  I'm surprised.

• 39:54Speaker 02

  But basically, I just went to a bunch of vegan vegetarian websites and looked to see what people said. And it it kind of ranged from, well, sure, I'll eat insects. And this is a much better way to to get protein in your body than animals. To where other people said, no, it's a living thing, not going to eat it. I get all the protein I need from plants. If you're eating something, a live animal, then you're not a vegan or vegetarian.

• 40:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I saw crickets referred to as mini livestock, all one word.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:26Josh Clark?

  I mean, they are a live, they're a living animal, for sure. So I guess it's a personal choice, it sounds like.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:34Josh Clark?

  Just like, you know, vegetarians eat fish sometimes, too.

• 40:39Speaker 02

  Uh, well, that'd be a pescatarian, right?

• 40:41Josh Clark?

  I guess, but I I've met plenty of vegetarians that are like, I'm vegetarian and I eat fish. Leave me alone.

• 40:49Speaker 02

  And that's when you go, technically, you're a pescatarian, and then you get punched in the face.

• 40:52Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 40:53Speaker 02

  Uh, so eating crickets, um, some people say it's sort of nutty. Some people say it's a little sweet, like sweet corn. Um, I'm, I would like to know for myself. I wish we could have gotten our hand on some chirps beforehand.

• 41:06Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 41:06Speaker 02

  But maybe we can follow up in the future.

• 41:08Josh Clark?

  We need a big bowl of chirps right here.

• 41:10Speaker 02

  Like, uh, yeah, like we did with, uh.

• 41:13Josh Clark?

  Soylent?

• 41:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, with a soylent.

• 41:15Josh Clark?

  Soylent.

• 41:15Speaker 02

  We'll do a follow up.

• 41:16Josh Clark?

  Soylent.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  Um, so there's this lady, Daniella Martin, and she has a a travel show and a, well, it's an insect cooking and travel show called Girl Meets Bug. Very cute. Um, and we should say the the chirps ladies called crickets the gateway bug. I also thought that was kind of funny, uh, and punny. And Daniella says that she started eating crickets and kind of became fascinated with insects in general uh, when she was in Mexico, in Yucatan, and.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  Kind of became, I don't think obsessed, but just super interested in this as a, as her protein of choice and said, you know, I started cooking them up with the little, little butter, little onion, little salt. And like with anything, if you put it in a pan with some butter and onion and salt, maybe a little garlic, it's probably going to taste pretty darn good.

• 42:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah, you could cook almost anything with butter, salt and onions and you're fine.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, even when you hear stories of these creepy cannibal people.

• 42:23Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:24Speaker 02

  They usually like cook it in butter.

• 42:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 42:26Speaker 02

  With a little salt and onion and garlic.

• 42:28Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I think that one guy who advertised on like Craigslist.

• 42:31Speaker 02

  He did.

• 42:32Josh Clark?

  Cannibal, he, yeah, he sauteed with, yeah, onion, you're right. Huh.

• 42:36Speaker 02

  Anyway.

• 42:36Josh Clark?

  Penis, I think it was.

• 42:38Speaker 02

  Oh, say what?

• 42:38Josh Clark?

  He ate penis like that.

• 42:40Speaker 02

  He did. Man, that was a very disturbing case.

• 42:43Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  So, um, she says, uh, crisping them in the oven is another, uh, besides, you know, grinding them into powder, cooking them up, like broiling them in the oven, don't overcook it, little olive oil, garlic, salt, throw them in about 250 for about 15 minutes. And a little sea salt on top, maybe, and you're gonna have a crunchy, delicious, nutrient-rich snack.

• 43:08Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and you want to clean them off too, if you're cooking them from raw.

• 43:11Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I guess so.

• 43:12Josh Clark?

  They're bugs. Uh, that's, it's something you want to do.

• 43:16Speaker 02

  What do you do? Just like wash them in a colander?

• 43:18Josh Clark?

  I guess so, yeah. Um, but I think like if they're already prepared, you're probably okay. Um, because one of the big things that, that, that like Bach Huber did by getting FDA approval, like now you can't just raise crickets on just anything. Like they have to be fed food that is okay for humans to eat too. Which is something that the cricket farming industry is running up against because one of the big things proponents are saying is like, man, you could raise crickets, if you had large scale cricket farms, you could raise crickets on food waste. And if you, if you, if you do that, not only are you like raising your crickets, you're also getting rid of

• 44:01Josh Clark?

  food waste, you're composting basically, right?

• 44:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:05Josh Clark?

  Composting, that's the way you say it. But apparently the FDA is like, now you can't feed things food waste, you nut job, you're gonna eat it eventually.

• 44:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:15Josh Clark?

  So there's big rules against it, but I think they're trying to chip away at that. As well.

• 44:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I remember being alarmed when I briefly worked in the chicken industry. When I found out that a lot of chicken feed is made from chickens.

• 44:28Josh Clark?

  Yeah, not, not okay.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's not right.

• 44:32Josh Clark?

  So I saw in, I think, Popular Science, they had a little nutrition facts thing for crickets. It's so cute. They said for a hundred grams of crickets, you're looking at about a hundred and twenty, hundred and twenty-one calories.

• 44:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 44:46Josh Clark?

  Um, you've got, uh, about five and a half grams of carbs.

• 44:51Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 44:52Josh Clark?

  Twelve point nine grams of protein. That is substantial.

• 44:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:56Josh Clark?

  Um, seventy-five point eight milligrams of calcium.

• 45:00Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 45:00Josh Clark?

  And nine and a half milligrams of iron. That's also pretty substantial.

• 45:04Speaker 02

  Huh.

• 45:05Josh Clark?

  Just from a hundred grams, I think they estimate that's about twenty to twenty-two crickets.

• 45:09Speaker 02

  Um, like a handful and a half.

• 45:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 45:12Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 45:13Josh Clark?

  That is, that's pretty good. And, and the idea that if you are just raising crickets yourself, you can feed them your own kitchen waste.

• 45:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:24Josh Clark?

  And then eat the crickets yourself.

• 45:25Speaker 02

  It's like composting.

• 45:26Josh Clark?

  There's also, right, right. There's also, um, very low barriers to entry into cricket farming. So if you're, um, if you're not a wealthy person and you need to make some extra money, you could conceivably raise crickets yourself and then sell them at market, too.

• 45:44Speaker 02

  It's like podcasting.

• 45:45Josh Clark?

  Exactly. Exactly. I think that's it.

• 45:50Speaker 02

  I got nothing else.

• 45:51Josh Clark?

  All right. Well, it's cricket farming, everybody. Go make it happen.

• 45:56Josh Clark?

  And in the meantime, you can look up this article on howstuffworks.com. And since I said that, it's time for listener mail.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  Uh, I'm gonna call this, uh, Kevin Spacey's Accent Explained. Oh, and before I read this, there is a House of Cards spoiler.

• 46:13Josh Clark?

  Spoiler.

• 46:14Speaker 02

  So, uh, alert to that. Uh, hey, guys, just listened to the episode on accents. I'm happy you brought up Kevin Spacey's accent from House of Cards, because I have a theory. Spacey plays the character Frank Underwood, grew up poor in Gaffney, South Carolina, but then went on to the Citadel in Charleston and created a persona that eventually lands him president. His accent does not sound like a bad attempt at the R-less, old-money Charleston accent, but I think it fits the character. Instead of a twangy R-full accent that he'd have from Gaffney, Spacey's playing Frank Underwood, who was playing someone with noble southern roots, and that's why it sounds fake. Am I giving Kevin Spacey too much credit? Possibly. But being from Greenville, South Carolina, I enjoyed dissecting his Carolina accent.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  And actually, I don't have much of an accent myself, except with words like lawyer and oil.

• 47:06Speaker 02

  Jerry just laughed. Because my brother, who's 10 years older, trained it out of me when I was very young. He said that he didn't want people to underestimate my intelligence because of our accent. He would correct me every time I would say things like, "turn the lights on" instead of "turn the lights on," or "naked" instead of "naked."

• 47:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  If you're saying naked.

• 47:26Josh Clark?

  Smack him with the length of dried bamboo and say, "again, say it again."

• 47:30Speaker 02

  Uh, I sort of wish I sounded more like the rest of my family, but what a considerate thing for my big brother to have done when he was a teenager.

• 47:36Josh Clark?

  Seriously.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  And that is from Mary Jean Murphy.

• 47:40Josh Clark?

  That's pretty great, Mary Jean. Your brother is a little social engineer, isn't he?

• 47:44Speaker 02

  I like that.

• 47:45Josh Clark?

  Um, and thank you also for the spoiler about Kevin Spacey becoming president on House of Cards. If you want to get in touch with us, like she did, you can send us an email to [email protected]. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.

• 48:03Speaker 03

  Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 48:18Josh Clark?

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• 49:45Speaker 00

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