The 2024 SYSK Christmas Extravaganza!

Welcome to the end of 2024 and our annual Christmas Extravaganza episode, brought to you ad-free for you listening pleasure. Please pour a hot toddy and enjoy around the fir tree of your choosing. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

• 0:21Josh Clark?

  Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's trying to come, but she's had car trouble, I guess. Either way, she's here in spirit, the Christmas spirit, and this is Stuff You Should Know.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  That's right. The holiday spectacular and a couple of traditions here is that this episode is brought to you ad-free and also-

• 0:42Josh Clark?

  By no one.

• 0:44Speaker 02

  Exactly, by us. And then also, we have managed to work it out, I don't know about every year, but it seems like every year where this is the last episode that we record of our recording year, and it's so great and so fun to wind it down this way.

• 1:01Josh Clark?

  It's such a special tradition. And Chuck, I'm really excited about this particular one because this is a good, a good combination, a good assemblage of stuff, I guess you could say, but might like add some Holly to that.

• 1:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I also realized when you sent your stuff over, I was like, hey, we kind of have a theme for one of yours and one of mine.

• 1:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:23Speaker 02

  Which is, you know, like sugary confections from different parts of the world.

• 1:27Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:28Speaker 02

  So those are kind of fun. Maybe we should do those back to back.

• 1:31Josh Clark?

  Okay, yeah, I think that's a good idea. And then also, we have another theme, movies.

• 1:35Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:36Josh Clark?

  Or Christmas specials. I don't know, however you want to put it.

• 1:39Speaker 02

  That's right. Where should we start this year?

• 1:44Josh Clark?

  Do you want to start with the cocktails so you can get crocked while we do this?

• 1:48Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:49Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 1:51Speaker 02

  Why not?

• 1:51Josh Clark?

  I think you should announce what's going on to everybody.

• 1:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, so what's happening is we usually try and source some sort of a holiday cocktail and tell you how to make it. Sometimes we make it and have it on our own. And this year, we had someone send in a holiday cocktail.

• 2:09Speaker 02

  A few months ago, we got an email from somebody named Holly Eitenmiller.

• 2:15Josh Clark?

  I think you nailed it.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  And this is a drink that Holly invented called, hang on to your hats here, Grandma's Christmas Breath.

• 2:26Josh Clark?

  That's so great. One thing I've noticed when you look around and read Christmas stuff and try to find Christmas stuff, grandma is almost invariably portrayed as a drunk.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  Oh, I didn't really, I wasn't sure what the breath would be, but I guess boozy breath. That makes sense.

• 2:39Josh Clark?

  Boozy breath, yeah. Like, I found a recipe for something or other. It was like grandma's version. It has like whiskey and rum in it.

• 2:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:48Josh Clark?

  Everybody's grandma gets drunk, apparently, on Christmas.

• 2:50Speaker 02

  Well, our dear departed Grandma Mary, Emily's grandmother, who was the senior general in the stuff you shoot in army, who passed away at the rippled age of 101. When she was in her 90s, like, around Christmas, she would have a little Baileys in her coffee.

• 3:09Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:09Speaker 02

  Just to touch every now and then.

• 3:12Josh Clark?

  A little Christmas iree?

• 3:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I guess Christmas time, I don't know, equals drunk grandparents.

• 3:18Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's how I'm taking it. I mean, Holly Eitenmiller's, the name of her recipe just says it all, I think.

• 3:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I asked Holly if there was a story behind it, but I did not hear back by recording time, so.

• 3:30Josh Clark?

  She doesn't want to talk about it?

• 3:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know what I'll do? I'll, through the magic of editing, I'll pause and go get some ice.

• 3:37Josh Clark?

  Oh, okay.

• 3:38Speaker 02

  And then I'll be right back, but to your ears, I'll be back in like one second.

• 3:42Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 3:42Speaker 02

  Hold on.

• 3:48Speaker 02

  Okay, I'm back, everybody. I have my shaker with ice. Josh, why don't you read out the ingredients and I'll pour them up?

• 3:55Josh Clark?

  Okay, you ready?

• 3:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:58Josh Clark?

  Prepare Chuck one shot of Captain Morgan gingerbread rum.

• 4:04Speaker 02

  Okay, so the story here is this stuff is really hard to find, and I had to

• 4:08Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah?

• 4:08Speaker 02

  get like a delivery service because I literally couldn't find it anywhere.

• 4:12Josh Clark?

  Do you remember I tried to get liquor delivered to you as a condolence, like, a year ago? It just did not work out. I tried like five different services and none of it worked.

• 4:23Speaker 02

  I don't remember that, but you know what?

• 4:25Josh Clark?

  I only gave up.

• 4:26Speaker 02

  That's the thought that counts.

• 4:27Josh Clark?

  I kept texting you like, are you gonna be home at 6:00 PM? Are you gonna be home at 3:00 AM tomorrow? Are you gonna be home at noon today?

• 4:33Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 4:34Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 4:34Speaker 02

  All right, so the gingerbread rum just went in. I took a little sniff and it smells cloyingly sweet.

• 4:41Josh Clark?

  Oh, it sounds delicious, but I could, I could see that.

• 4:43Speaker 02

  All right, what's next?

• 4:44Josh Clark?

  I also, I just want to make a little, a little note here. A shot is very ambiguous. You could make a quart size shot. You could make a, a little tiny shot. Like a shot is another way of putting one part.

• 4:58Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I mean, I just use a standard bar jigger. So whatever, whatever the big side is.

• 5:05Josh Clark?

  The big side's usually two ounces.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  Okay, all right.

• 5:09Josh Clark?

  All right. This is gonna be quite a Christmas episode. The second ingredient, Chuck, is one shot of Grand Marnier.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think you just heard the cork pop, the infamous.

• 5:21Josh Clark?

  Oh, I hear it.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  Oh, you hear that?

• 5:23Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's definitely two ounces.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  I'm not saying I'm gonna drink all of this. All right, what's next?

• 5:29Josh Clark?

  Uh, as much orange juice as you wish. I would strongly recommend fresh squeezed. Anytime you're using citrus in a cocktail, just do yourself a favor and squeeze it yourself. It's not that hard.

• 5:40Speaker 02

  All right, well, can we pause so I can go to the grocery store?

• 5:43Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Uh, now I'm gonna open up the old Tropicana that I just bought.

• 5:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 5:49Speaker 02

  Uh, and I bought it at a convenience store, or I would have gotten an orange. I'm just gonna do one shot of that.

• 5:54Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 5:55Speaker 02

  And just go one, one, one.

• 5:57Josh Clark?

  Okay, I think that's a great idea. And then, do you have any ice on hand? Or do we need to wait around for that, too?

• 6:02Speaker 02

  That's what I got in the shaker.

• 6:04Josh Clark?

  Okay. Yep, Chuck's doing the next thing, everybody. Shaking Grandma's Christmas bread together.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  Should I have this up or on the rocks? Probably on the rocks.

• 6:13Josh Clark?

  Uh, I don't know. It sounds like you got enough ice in there and this is boozy enough to go up.

• 6:18Speaker 02

  All right, I'll go up then.

• 6:21Josh Clark?

  We'll see.

• 6:23Josh Clark?

  And then we're going to all, uh, wait around here to see what Chuck thinks of this. And also, I want to say, I'm not drinking booze right now, but I'm putting away a, a, most of a quart of eggnog as we speak.

• 6:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, uh, I mean, the only reason I'm doing this is because I just felt like somebody should try this out on the air. And so here we go, everybody. A post-production drum roll.

• 6:47Josh Clark?

  Doo-dah.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  Uh, okay.

• 6:52Josh Clark?

  Oh, poor Holly. She's... her Christmas dreams have just been dashed.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  No, it's not bad. I mean, it is... it's orangey because the Grand Marnier and the orange juice, obviously.

• 7:02Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  And, uh, it's not bad, you know? I mean, it's, uh, it's definitely like a festive holiday drink. I don't... I would not recommend more than one of them.

• 7:13Josh Clark?

  Oh, is it pretty boozy?

• 7:15Speaker 02

  Uh, I mean, it's pretty, pretty, just sort of sweet. Depends on your tolerance for sweet drinks.

• 7:20Josh Clark?

  Is that rum really coming through, or is it getting, um, missed in the orange?

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Um, it could probably come through a little bit more, so I could probably add a little less orange juice if there were to be a next time.

• 7:32Josh Clark?

  Or you could add more rum.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  Well, let's, let's not get carried away here.

• 7:36Josh Clark?

  Okay. Well, um, I say we move on. Speaking of carried away, let's carry ourselves away to the next segment.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:43Josh Clark?

  And, uh, as per Christmas tradition, holiday show tradition, um, Jerry's going to add some really nice Christmasy interstitial music. So, take it away, Jerry.

• 8:13Josh Clark?

  All right, Chuck. How are you feeling?

• 8:14Speaker 02

  Good, and big thanks to Holly again, uh, for this, for this drink.

• 8:19Josh Clark?

  Yeah. So, um, we're gonna teach everybody how to play Dirty Santa next. We're doing that with, uh, an assist from Nella Bailey McGough. I'm pretty sure that's how you'd say her last name, from Southern Living,

• 8:32Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:33Josh Clark?

  who wrote a pretty top-notch article on how to play this, why to play it. And they even turned up, um, what the origin of the name, because it's got a bunch of different names. White Elephant, apparently in the South were the ones who typically call it Dirty Santa.

• 8:47Speaker 02

  Never heard of that.

• 8:49Josh Clark?

  You've never heard of Dirty Santa? That's all I've ever heard it. Well, aside from White Elephant.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  I've only heard White Elephant. Interesting.

• 8:54Josh Clark?

  What about, what about Yankee Swap? That one's new to me.

• 8:58Speaker 02

  No, never heard that one. I've only heard White Elephant when it comes to this kind of game.

• 9:02Josh Clark?

  Okay. Well, I've heard Dirty Santa and White Elephant, but regardless, the White Elephant name seems to be the traditional name for this, which is, it's kind of like, it's a, it's a party game. You would play it like your holiday party. And in the spirit, basically of Secret Santa, where everybody gives somebody else a gift anonymously. And then the person tries to guess who gave it to them. It's very nice and sweet. This is not, well, it's not supposed to be mean or anything like that, but there's a lot, there's some twists to it that make it dirty.

• 9:33Speaker 02

  That's right, because it involves the trading of gifts, which we'll get to the rules in a second. It can, well, I'll mention that when we get to the trading part, but yeah, the origins is interesting because I never knew this as far as the White Elephant name. Supposedly it came from what is now Thailand, what was Siam back in the day. And the king of Siam was, if he was annoyed, he might give someone an albino elephant if he didn't like them very much, right?

• 10:02Josh Clark?

  Yes, but the key here was to the courtier who received this gift. I mean, this is a lavish gift.

• 10:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:10Josh Clark?

  But it was a lavish gift that cost a lot and took a lot of effort to keep healthy and happy.

• 10:16Speaker 02

  Right.

• 10:16Josh Clark?

  So although it seemed like you had really gained the king's favor, the king was giving you a real problem to deal with for the rest of the elephant's life. So it's a pretty, pretty sharp little idea that Yul Brynner came up with. And that's where the name came from, White Elephant, right?

• 10:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:33Josh Clark?

  Okay. So getting on to the modern incarnation of it, I did not see who invented this. I guess the king of Siam did, but the, the modern incarnation, I don't know where that came from. But there are basically wherever you look up rules for the White Elephant game, there's some that are just tried and true. They're just, you're going to find them in any set of rules. One of the big ones is set a dollar limit.

• 10:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:58Josh Clark?

  You don't want some person just showing off their Christmas bonus by, you know, they, they show up with a bunch of banging olives and speakers or something like that, you know? By by setting a limit at like 20 bucks, you're making the people get kind of creative.

• 11:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, and the whole idea here is to have fun. So, yeah, 20 bucks, I feel like is, I mean, you can set it according to whatever, you know, financial pool you're swimming in, but I feel like $20 is a pretty good round number.

• 11:27Josh Clark?

  Great, but yes, the cheaper, the lower the the the price limit, the more creative the people have to be to come up with something.

• 11:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. They give some tips here in this article, which is kind of fun, which is to try and fool the unwapper by wrapping it, wrapping perhaps a small thing in some big elaborate package, or by, if you're, if you get really creative, if you can even reshape something as far as the wrapping goes to where it looks like something else, like maybe a bottle of wine, when it in fact is just like a folded up whoopee cushion.

• 12:01Josh Clark?

  Yes, oh, that's a good one.

• 12:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:03Josh Clark?

  That's a great, great white elephant gift.

• 12:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, those are probably only like $5.

• 12:07Josh Clark?

  Right, so you, well, not in 2024, pal.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:11Josh Clark?

  So you want to, in your invitation, specify, yes, wrap it, get creative with your wrapping, but do not put a to or from thing. This is all anonymous. And then everybody comes on the day of the party and they bring their gift wrapped and they put it in a pile, the pool, as some people call it.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:28Josh Clark?

  And Nella Bailey McGough specifies, do not put this area near your own family's real presence, because

• 12:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:37Josh Clark?

  you don't want to mix up like that. And then, once the everybody's assembled and usually sitting around in a circle or something, so everybody can see everybody else, you draw numbers from a hat. And the numbers in the hat number from one to the number of people playing, and everybody draws a number.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  That's right. So, once you've drawn your number and are thus ordered in opening order.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  Person number one is gonna grab a gift. They're gonna open it. They're gonna show everybody what it is. Oh, my God, it's for whoopee cushions. Cause they're, well, probably three these days to hit that $20 mark.

• 13:11Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 13:12Speaker 02

  And that's it. They got their gift. Everyone gets a good laugh. Next up is person number two, and this is when it gets interesting because person number two has a choice. They can pick a new gift from the pile, or they can go ahead and just steal that first gift if that is something that they actually want.

• 13:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah, there's also an alternate set of rules that say everyone picks a gift first and then the stealing starts. But most of the time you can steal on that second turn. There's, this is where it gets a little hazy. So let's say that you're five people into this, right? So person number five, it's their turn. If they go and steal person number four's gift, now it's time for person number four to go steal somebody else's gift, say, person number two. Now, person number two has to steal a gift. And this can just keep going on ad infinitum. So usually it's the third, the third time a gift is stolen, the last person has to just go take a new gift from the pile.

• 14:12Josh Clark?

  They don't get to steal or else it just keep going on and on and on.

• 14:15Speaker 02

  Right.

• 14:15Josh Clark?

  And then there's some other restrictions on how many times a gift can be stolen or a person can be stolen from too, right?

• 14:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, you can do house rules, of course, or regional rules, but generally a gift can not be, can be stolen no more than three times. If a gift is pronounced dead, that means you can't steal it anymore. And that, that's after it's been stolen, right?

• 14:38Josh Clark?

  Three times.

• 14:39Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, after, right, duh. After the three times, it can no longer be stolen.

• 14:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and usually a person can only be stolen from three times as well. And then whatever gift they're holding on the last time that gets, whatever gift they go steal from somebody else or pick, that's their gift to keep. So you can play strategically here. If there's actually a gift there that you want, like you really want that whoopee cushion, you can choose it as the, your last gift after you're, you're dead, essentially.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. If your gift is stolen, you can't steal it right back. You have to steal another gift or choose from the pile.

• 15:19Speaker 02

  And is there, are there any other variations?

• 15:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, um, essentially, once all of this continues on, once, once this goes around and everybody, say you have 15 people playing, after person 15's turn, you're back to person one because they had no choice. They had to choose a gift from the pile. Now it's their turn to decide to steal. And if they decide to keep their gift, then the game's over. If they steal, it keeps going on. Until you finally reach somebody who goes, I'm good. I really love my whoopee cushion.

• 15:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 15:48Josh Clark?

  I'm keeping my gift. The party, the party's essentially over at that point because the, the excitement is, is, has been so charged that there's nothing you could possibly do to top it after that.

• 16:00Speaker 02

  I don't know. If you got those whoopee cushions, I say the party's just getting started.

• 16:04Josh Clark?

  That's true. That's true. I mean, I was thinking you could drink like gallons of grandma's Christmas breath and it still wouldn't bring about the thrill that the white elephant game can.

• 16:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, well, two quick things. Uh, one thing I wanted to mention earlier on is I, I have seen this game go badly. Like if somebody really wants to keep something and it gets stolen, they get their feelings hurt. Um, boy, try, try and park that attitude at the door.

• 16:32Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 16:32Speaker 02

  This is supposed to be fun. And if all of a sudden you're really getting mad because you didn't get that whoopee cushion, then, um, you know, do some self-reflection on what you're bringing to the table.

• 16:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah, for sure. I mean, you can go buy a whoopee cushion if you really need it.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  That's right. And the second thing I wanted to say, since you said gallons of this drink, um, as I was drinking it, I think this would be really good as a punch. Like throw it in the punch bowl with some like cinnamon sticks and sliced oranges and some other.

• 17:02Josh Clark?

  Like a bunch of ice?

• 17:04Speaker 02

  Bunch of ice and stuff like that. And I think it would make like a pretty, pretty decent party punch, actually.

• 17:08Josh Clark?

  Would you add soda water to it?

• 17:11Speaker 02

  I don't know. How does that hold up in a punch bowl?

• 17:13Josh Clark?

  Well, very well. I mean, there's like a whole Sprite High C Punch camp that is like crazy for that stuff.

• 17:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:19Josh Clark?

  It's carbonated.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  All right, then I say pour four liters of Topo Chico in there.

• 17:24Josh Clark?

  Okay, all right, that sounds good.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  All right.

• 17:27Josh Clark?

  Actually, that sounds terrible. That'd be mineral water mixed with it. You just want plain club soda.

• 17:32Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, and what's like a red tinting like a...

• 17:36Josh Clark?

  High C.

• 17:37Speaker 02

  Oh, I guess so. But what's something that's not super sweet, like Campari? Would that change the taste a lot?

• 17:42Josh Clark?

  Uh, yes.

• 17:44Josh Clark?

  Definitely would. I have no idea what that would taste like after that point.

• 17:48Speaker 02

  It would, it would be a little more festive as a punch, I think, if it was red or green.

• 17:52Josh Clark?

  Yes, for sure. I get what you're saying. I guess it's kind of brown right now?

• 17:57Speaker 02

  Uh, I mean, it's more orange.

• 17:59Josh Clark?

  Oh, it is actually orange? Okay, good.

• 18:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, it looks like orange juice.

• 18:03Josh Clark?

  Okay, well, that's it for White Elephant. There is one, one quote I wanted to read from Nella Bailey McGough.

• 18:10Speaker 02

  Oh, boy.

• 18:11Josh Clark?

  You know the, do you know the one?

• 18:12Speaker 02

  I'm pretty sure. Go ahead.

• 18:14Josh Clark?

  They, they say that the mixture of gag gifts and gifts people actually want combine to make the nitro that fuels this amazing game. And I guess that Nella Bailey McGough would be a really fun person to play White Elephant with.

• 18:28Speaker 02

  Totally. I love it.

• 18:29Josh Clark?

  Uh, hey, let's hit that interstitial Christmas music again as we mosey on over to the next segment.

• 18:47Speaker 02

  All right, I'd say we move on to, let's go ahead and knock out our two, our two confections.

• 18:53Josh Clark?

  Oh, okay. Which one do you want to do first?

• 18:55Speaker 02

  Uh, you know what? Let's start with Italy because this is also another thing that a listener sent in, which is really great. People are starting to help program the show because it gets really, really hard to find new short Christmas stuff. After all these years, but Carl with a K, Harden, sent in a suggestion to do a short stuff on pizzelles. Pizzel or pizzelle?

• 19:20Josh Clark?

  Pizzella, I thought.

• 19:22Speaker 02

  Pizzella?

• 19:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah, you gotta say it like, like that.

• 19:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's an Italian cookie that is enjoyed, you know, at different times of the year, weddings and things, but really known as a Christmas or Easter cookie.

• 19:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I know them as Christmas. I didn't realize they were Easter, but yeah, they're super Italian and they're so Italian that it's, it shares a root word with pizza.

• 19:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:47Josh Clark?

  Pizz, which means round and flat, which is pretty impressive that they fit round and flat into just one word.

• 19:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's true.

• 19:56Josh Clark?

  The L in pizzella means small and the A in pizza means personal pan.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  Right. Oh, man. Well done.

• 20:07Josh Clark?

  That was pre-thought of.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  I know, but it was still great. Great delivery. Nothing wrong with writing a joke, my friend.

• 20:12Josh Clark?

  All right. So. Such a fraud.

• 20:14Speaker 02

  No, not at all. Traditionally, black licorice or anise is the traditional flavor, but that's sort of the old world stuff. These days you can flavor it with whatever you want. A lot of chocolate ones, vanilla, lemons, a very popular flavor.

• 20:29Josh Clark?

  I saw gingerbread.

• 20:31Speaker 02

  Oh, sure. I could dip it in this punch.

• 20:33Josh Clark?

  Yeah, sounds good. I also saw a savory one, lemon dill. I'm not crazy about that, but that was the most exotic one I found.

• 20:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I saw an elk one, but that feels a little gamey.

• 20:46Josh Clark?

  For real, an elk one?

• 20:48Speaker 02

  No.

• 20:49Josh Clark?

  Okay, because I was gonna say, maybe it was a recipe from the Elks.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  Oh, sure, sure. I get you.

• 20:55Josh Clark?

  So it's also really simple to make too. It's just like sugar, eggs, flour, maybe butter, maybe olive oil. If you really want to get Italian and then, like you said, some of those flavorings. And then you make it essentially like an old timey waffle where you have a, like two irons that usually have some sort of like, like, what is it? Boss relief emblem or symbol or shape or something like that?

• 21:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:23Josh Clark?

  That the dough cooks into, so it transfers the shape to the dough as you're cooking.

• 21:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, like the old world way. And I imagine a lot of just sort of traditional Italian families still do it this way. I mean, they make machines like a waffle iron that you could do this in. But is is the old school two cast iron plates, like you said, that have those decorative designs? And a lot of times it's a snowflake for Christmas. Back in the old days, you could get like a family, like a family plate made with your whatever about your like your family crest, maybe. Or a special date in your family or anything that's meaningful to your family.

• 22:01Josh Clark?

  Yeah, picture of your grandma drunk at Christmas.

• 22:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure. And then you can eat that drunk face. And then you cook those over an open flame, you know, like turning it over, you know, each side, each side. Let that thing cool off. And then you can do a lot of things with it. You can roll it up like a cone and put stuff in it. You can just sprinkle it with a little powdered sugar. You can, I saw one where you can use it as a like ice cream sandwich layer.

• 22:27Josh Clark?

  Yeah, the, I don't know where you got this, but there's a Nutella ice cream pizzelle sandwich. I don't even know if this is a recipe, but you just alternate layers of pizzelle, Nutella and whatever flavor ice cream you want to. Stack it as high as you can get your mouth around and there you go.

• 22:44Speaker 02

  And it sounds delicious.

• 22:46Josh Clark?

  Plus also, I mean, like a fresh pizzelle out of some hot iron sounds really, really good. I mean, even a stale pizzelle is still kind of good.

• 22:54Speaker 02

  I don't think I've ever had one.

• 22:56Josh Clark?

  Oh, really? You should, you should order some, they're everywhere.

• 22:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would figure this time of year, huh?

• 23:01Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I would, I would treat yourself and do an Anis one. The traditional kind.

• 23:07Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 23:07Josh Clark?

  It's actually surprisingly good. I'm not crazy about Anis, but it's, it's good in this context.

• 23:12Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 23:13Josh Clark?

  And then get something else that you know you're gonna like, like lemon or something.

• 23:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm gonna see if there's a good Italian bakery in Atlanta.

• 23:20Josh Clark?

  There you go. But I mean, even if there's not, I guarantee you can find these at like TJ Maxx if you want to. Like they're everywhere.

• 23:28Speaker 02

  Right behind the blouse aisle.

• 23:31Josh Clark?

  Sometimes mixed in with the blouses.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  Ooh, all right, so that's the pizzelle. Should we move on to your le bouche de Noël?

• 23:40Josh Clark?

  Yes, I did not expect you to say it like that, but nicely done.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  How would you say it? What's the correct way, in other words?

• 23:46Josh Clark?

  I mean, you basically had it, I think it's bouche.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  De bouche?

• 23:50Josh Clark?

  I think so, but I know that bouche also is, is a mouth.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  No.

• 23:58Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 23:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 24:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:01Josh Clark?

  I'm pretty sure. So I could be miss- miss- uh, saying it. It could be butchy.

• 24:07Speaker 02

  Okay, okay. Le butchy de Noel.

• 24:10Josh Clark?

  You're right. And it's a yule log, but it's an edible yule log and it's a really closely identified with France.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is. And it was not something you would eat in the old school tradition in France. Um, what happened, it dates back to medieval times. And you would get a real log of wood, uh, usually a fruit tree or many times a fruit tree. Uh, and you would do that to, let's say you wanted like a good, uh, apple harvest for the year to come. So you would use like an apple, um, branch or log. You bring it home, you put that thing in the hearth and the hearth is sort of where the family hung out. So it's just sort of the centerpiece there.

• 24:52Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Um, and then there were, I think this actually is like a pagan rite even that they would, they would light this. And it was supposed to last from Christmas through the new year. So at least three days, if it didn't burn for three days, you did it wrong and your next year is gonna suck. But if you could at least make it three, three days, um, yeah, you're, you were probably going to, to choke to death on an apple the following year. If it didn't make it three days. But if it makes it three days or longer, great. And so to kind of game the system, usually your yule log would be, um, like damp, like very green and very large. Cause that wouldn't be the only thing you're burning. Like you needed to cook, you needed to keep warm.

• 25:36Josh Clark?

  So you had fires going this whole time. So to keep this log going for at least three days, it had to be of a certain type.

• 25:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I'm not sure if we mentioned, you light it on Christmas Eve. If you've really done your job well and you picked out the perfect log, maybe soaked it a little bit and game the system, like you said. That thing might burn to the new year and I would guess the whole family just celebrates if that happens.

• 26:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And the ashes even are, were thought to prevent lightning strikes. So you'd want to cover yourself in it anytime you went out in a rainstorm, I'm guessing. Um, they would use the coal and like medicinal preparations. All sorts of stuff, right? It was a big deal. The problem is, and our friend, well, I guess our online friend, this person that we, whose article we came across, Lucy Rose, on Beyond Brioche, on Frenchly.com, wrote a great article about this. And Lucy Rose said that eventually over time, hearths just kind of started to disappear.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:35Josh Clark?

  Like, so the center of the house where the yule log used to kind of do its thing at the end of the year, lost its, its setting. So people still kind of followed this tradition, but they would just set a log on the dinner table and, and just look at it. They didn't set it on fire. So it lost a little something. And then eventually somebody was like, hey, why don't we eat that thing? Let's make an edible version of this and eat it. And that's where the Bûche de Noël came from.

• 27:04Speaker 02

  That's right. That happened sometime in the late 1800s. Apparently a gentleman named Pierre Lacam, published the first recipe for that in 1890. And it started spreading around to other cultures, other cultures that either spoke French or just dug what the French were into. And, you know, you make it, it's like, it's like a jelly roll cake, but you've got buttercream instead of the jelly and you roll it up and you frost it with a ganache of some kind. And then you try to make it look like bark, like use a fork and kind of scrape along the outside to make it look a little more like a log.

• 27:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And sometimes like the more modern ones, they'll come in all sorts of colors or whatever. And they look very sleek, like a Swiss cake roll, essentially. But the traditional Bûche de Noël is like, you can really kind of go to town with it. Not just making that bark effect, but you could make additional, smaller jelly roll cakes that you roll up and make as like branches coming off of it. Some people go to the trouble of making meringue or marzipan mushrooms, like little toadstools growing out of it.

• 28:13Speaker 02

  So cute.

• 28:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it is super cute. Like a really well done Bûche de Noël is adorable. So much so that you don't really want to eat it. But from the, the description of the ingredients, I would eat it anyway.

• 28:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 28:26Josh Clark?

  And there's actually, it's not that hard to make. And there's some recipes that Lucy Rose, Recommends. There's one from Legrand Wheel, which is a legendary French restaurant in New York. They had one published in the New York Times in 1982. Then the other one she recommended came from Jacques Pepin, his classic Bûche de Noël.

• 28:47Speaker 02

  Doesn't get any better than Jacques Pepin.

• 28:49Josh Clark?

  No. And while you're out at those bakeries looking for Pizzelle, try a French bakery and see if they have a Bûche de Noël. And if they don't, but you really want to try it, they sell them online, too.

• 29:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, boy, I'm looking at some of these online. These are really lovely.

• 29:03Josh Clark?

  Yeah, they really are. Don't they look cool? Like, do you see any with the toadstools?

• 29:07Speaker 02

  I see the toadstools. I see the little forked bark. Those look nice. But I see someone who somehow managed to make it look like real pine bark. That looks really great.

• 29:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah. I mean, somebody with the right kind of fork could really go to town.

• 29:23Josh Clark?

  So let's move on, huh?

• 29:25Speaker 02

  All right. So those, yeah, those are the two confections. And so we're gonna hop in our sleigh. We're gonna ride around up in the stratosphere, atmosphere? Where are we up there?

• 29:34Josh Clark?

  I think the stratosphere, right along the edge of space.

• 29:37Speaker 02

  Okay, perfect. And we will be right back after a little Christmas cheer.

• 29:52Josh Clark?

  Okay, Chuck. So we're talking, I think now we're gonna move on to a segment on Christmas trees in the White House.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 30:01Josh Clark?

  Those of you who don't live in the United States, the White House is where the president lives.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  That's right. And generally, the president's family lives there, depending on like how old the kids are and stuff like that.

• 30:12Josh Clark?

  For sure.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  But there are a lot of traditions over the years. We're not, you know, you can go to whitehouse.gov under the Christmas stuff if you want to look at all of these. But I feel like we should maybe concentrate on a few of the more fun ones.

• 30:26Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  The first Christmas tree in the White House that anyone knows about was in the second floor Oval Room, which was a family parlor and library in 1889, which was the Benjamin Harrison administration. And they used real candles to delight the grandchildren.

• 30:46Josh Clark?

  Yeah, apparently. So that was 1889. And I think electricity was brought to the lighthouse two years later.

• 30:54Speaker 02

  The lighthouse?

• 30:56Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I said the White House, didn't I?

• 30:58Speaker 02

  You said lighthouse, but I love that.

• 30:59Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 31:00Speaker 02

  It made it light.

• 31:01Josh Clark?

  Well, white is a light, light color. It's the absence of color, actually. So, but electricity was brought to the White House in 1891. And yet, 30 plus, 40 something years later, FDR, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, still celebrated with a Christmas tree lit with candles.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, despite the danger. I think, like you said, 1891 was electricity. And three years later, Grover Cleveland had the first electrically lit tree. But, you know, Teddy Roosevelt, that guy was old school, if he was nothing else.

• 31:37Josh Clark?

  Well, that was Franklin Roosevelt. Teddy Roosevelt has his own interesting story.

• 31:41Speaker 02

  Oh, Franklin, of course, he's even older school.

• 31:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 31:45Speaker 02

  But yeah, Teddy supposedly banned Christmas trees. That is a bit of a, I think it's just been twisted a bit over the years. I don't think he banned them. He just, it was not a part of their family tradition to have a tree, so he did not.

• 32:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that was, I mean, that's it. There's apparently a huge misunderstanding over the years that he was such a conservationist. I guess historians retroactively reasoned that the reason there wasn't Christmas trees during his administration was because he didn't want them cut down. But the answer is they just didn't celebrate with a Christmas tree. That wasn't their jam.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:22Josh Clark?

  Which is pretty typical at the time. I mean, people having a Christmas tree in your house, you know, when you celebrate Christmas is fairly modern, certainly way more modern than the turn of the last century.

• 32:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it wasn't like everybody was doing it. Although in 1902, Archie Roosevelt did sneak a little small tree, hit it in the closet upstairs even, decorated it and showed his family. And Teddy Roosevelt did not say, get that infernal thing out of here. Apparently, he liked it and said, all right, well, the tree can stay.

• 32:56Josh Clark?

  Yes, um, which is sweet, you know?

• 32:59Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 33:00Josh Clark?

  And then there's also a record that was set by Dwight D Eisenhower in the 50s, I think in 1959, for the, the greatest number of, um, Christmas trees in the White House at one time. And he really macked it out with 26 Christmas trees in the White House. And for years and years and years, no one even tried to beat Eisenhower's record. Um, until I think, what was it, uh, 1990? When the George W. Bush administration blew it out of the water.

• 33:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was like, I'm gonna take down that record.

• 33:35Josh Clark?

  Read my lips.

• 33:37Speaker 02

  Hey, great impression.

• 33:38Josh Clark?

  It was so, so, but how many trees did he have?

• 33:42Speaker 02

  He brought in 47, just blew Eisenhower out of the water. Uh, the Clintons had 32, also beating Eisenhower in 95. And the younger Bush said, I'm gonna beat daddy.

• 33:56Josh Clark?

  He did.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  He brought in two more trees than dad.

• 34:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and the Obamas said, nice try, watch us.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  Hold my beer.

• 34:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah, 62 trees in 2015. And, uh, if you look at all of these different, um, different competing numbers of trees, these records just being broken and beaten and tossed and dashed over the rocks. Um, they all had themes. I think Clintons had it, it was the night before Christmas. The first Bush had a Nutcracker Ballet theme. The Obamas had Timeless Tradition. The second Bush had Home for the Holidays. They all had themes and they were actually following in a tradition set by Jackie Kennedy back in 1961, who created the first theme, uh, Christmas that the Christmas trees were decorated with. Again, Nutcracker.

• 34:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's fine, but it was the first one. So technically, I guess she started the Nutcracker theme.

• 34:49Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 34:49Speaker 02

  As all themes, but that wasn't the first tree in the Blue Room. That is traditionally where the official tree is now in the Blue Room. That started in 1912 when Robert Helen and Charlie Taft, the children of William Howard, put that very first tree in the Blue Room. And they have a competition now internationally. You have to win the state competition first to qualify to see if your tree can be the tree in the Blue Room. And we're just going to go over a few of these leading states now because far and away, well, not that far and away, but North Carolina has had the most trees since 1961 in the Blue Room with 13.

• 35:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I don't know how recent this stat is, but I know that North Carolina was chosen again, kind of as a nod to the battering by Hurricane Helene.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:37Josh Clark?

  This year, President Biden, I think, chose one from Western North Carolina. Cartner's Tree Farm in Newland, North Carolina was the one who is sending the White House Christmas tree this year.

• 35:50Speaker 02

  That's right. And surely not a sympathy pick because like I said, North Carolina pumps out some great trees as they are in the lead. Pennsylvania is in second with 11. Then you have Wisconsin with eight, Washington State with seven, West Virginia with four, and then basically other states with two or one.

• 36:08Josh Clark?

  Yeah, there was one that was anonymously donated from New England. It sounds suspicious.

• 36:14Speaker 02

  And if you're wondering what kinds of trees, far and away, fir trees lead with 52. There've been seven spruces and one pine.

• 36:23Josh Clark?

  That's the one that's coming out of Cartner's this year, too, a Fraser fir.

• 36:27Speaker 02

  Oh, fir, so it'll be, I guess that'll be the 53rd?

• 36:31Josh Clark?

  Yeah, whitehouse.gov needs to get on this.

• 36:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's right. Update your site already.

• 36:36Josh Clark?

  So yeah, that's it for White House Christmas trees, huh? I think that was a pleasant little journey.

• 36:42Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 36:43Josh Clark?

  Through a political minefield.

• 36:44Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 36:45Josh Clark?

  Okay, Chuck, it's next, next up. I'm pretty psyched. We're going to do another two fir segment, aren't we?

• 36:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, are we going to hit these Christmas movies?

• 36:53Josh Clark?

  Yes, but first, how about some more jolly music from our friend Jerry?

• 37:09Speaker 02

  All right, everyone, we're back and we're gonna finish up with a couple of Christmas movies. Well, one a TV special and one, not just a Christmas movie, but the er-Christmas movie.

• 37:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, you are, right?

• 37:23Speaker 02

  I don't know how you spell it.

• 37:24Josh Clark?

  You do. You are. It's like a reference to a city in Sumeria or Mesopotamia or something like that, like one of the first cities.

• 37:32Speaker 02

  Oh, look at you, Mr. Smartypants.

• 37:34Josh Clark?

  Er.

• 37:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're talking about the first Christmas movies. A shocking stat here, over 150 new holiday movies are produced annually.

• 37:44Josh Clark?

  Yep, 98% of them from Hallmark.

• 37:46Speaker 02

  Probably so, or that may be a real stat, actually. Who knows?

• 37:49Josh Clark?

  It is. They shoot two-a-days is what they call them. They complete two films from scratch in a day.

• 37:56Speaker 02

  They should just redress people and recast them and just be like, all right, you're Bill, the local sheriff in this one, and you're Johnny, the local diner owner in this one.

• 38:07Josh Clark?

  Right. Wait, I thought I was Johnny in this one. No, just shut up and wear this.

• 38:13Speaker 02

  But if you're thinking like, oh, It's a Wonderful Life, no, no, no, that's the 40s. If you're thinking, all right, March of the Wooden Soldiers, no, no, that's 1934.

• 38:22Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 38:23Speaker 02

  You have to go all the way back to the very earliest days of putting anything on film to find the inspiration that would lead you to the first Christmas movie.

• 38:32Josh Clark?

  Yeah. It turns out that we're going all the way back to the 1890s, but we should go back a little before then. In France, France apparently, I didn't know this, was like the er- center of filmmaking. Did you know that? That that's where it originally kind of came out of?

• 38:50Speaker 02

  Sure, the Le Maire brothers.

• 38:52Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so them, there was a guy named Louis Le Prince, who is considered as having filmed the first surviving or the oldest surviving motion picture, which you've probably seen before. I know you have, but I'm saying you, the listener. It's a horse running and it almost looks like a flip book. It's that primitive.

• 39:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:11Josh Clark?

  And it's referenced, actually, have you seen that movie Nope?

• 39:15Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, sure.

• 39:16Josh Clark?

  Remember when they, when they show up on the set, they kind of give that spiel about their family and the horses and they say that that was their ancestor?

• 39:23Speaker 02

  Right.

• 39:23Josh Clark?

  That's what they're talking about, is that it's just a two-second-long shot of a horse running with a jockey on it.

• 39:30Speaker 02

  I'd like to see that again.

• 39:32Josh Clark?

  Nope, or that two-second-long shot?

• 39:35Speaker 02

  No, wait. Alright, I just watched the horse thing again. No, I'd like to see Nope again. I saw that in the theater, but I haven't seen it since, and I quite enjoyed it.

• 39:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it was pretty good.

• 39:43Speaker 02

  Alright, so that 2.1 second horse-running, first thing, a lot of films that followed didn't have a narrative yet. They were just literally, people were amazed that they could just see something moving on film. The Lemaire Brothers, very famously, in 1896, had a 50-second clip of a train coming right toward the screen.

• 40:06Speaker 02

  Probably the first and last time a train didn't go through a tunnel to indicate intercourse.

• 40:12Josh Clark?

  Right. Yeah, they hadn't figured that out quite yet. That was the next year, probably.

• 40:17Speaker 02

  That's right. But then that first Christmas movie came just a few years later, right?

• 40:21Josh Clark?

  Just two years later, after that 50-second clip was called "The Arrival of a Train", it really gets across what you're watching. But it was just two years after that, a guy named George Albert Smith became the creator of the very first Christmas movie, uncontested. No one had ever made a Christmas movie before, until George Albert Smith came along and put 76 seconds of goodness on film.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  That's right. It's called "Santa Claus", it's a pretty groundbreaking film at the time. I guess almost anything you did would be groundbreaking at the time.

• 40:52Josh Clark?

  Yeah, but this, he was showing off, almost.

• 40:55Speaker 02

  No, I agree. It had some pretty decent special effects. It's a story of Santa, a very simple story, obviously, 76 seconds. But it's Santa visiting the home of two kids on Christmas Eve. You can watch it on YouTube, it only takes 76 seconds, plus some dumb ad.

• 41:12Speaker 02

  But you see two kids checking the chimney for Santa before the, either mom or the nanny or somebody puts them to bed. They turn off the lights, and then the room is dark, and then all of a sudden pops up, the first little special effect is, on the right side of the screen, a little circular image of the rooftop, like an insert, almost, within the film frame itself. Where you see Santa climbing down a chimney, but really just walking down some stairs, disguised as a chimney.

• 41:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah, right. And then, like, once he gets into the chimney, or out of that additional shot that's showing him on the rooftop. All of a sudden, he's in the kid's room. And it is, it's like an editing cut. But also, it was edited just, just a little early or a little late. So that you can see him coming through the black curtain.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:05Josh Clark?

  That he's suddenly appearing from. But again, we're talking 1898 and people were just amazed by this kind of stuff. And then Santa, while the kids are sleeping, he puts little goodies in their stocking and he waves goodbye. And then all of a sudden, poof, he's gone again. And I mean, like even watching it now, I'm like, that was pretty cool. I can't imagine being alive in 1898 and seeing that and just being like, oh my God.

• 42:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:31Josh Clark?

  I can't wait till Polar Express comes out.

• 42:35Speaker 02

  Movie I still haven't seen.

• 42:36Josh Clark?

  I haven't either.

• 42:37Speaker 02

  Oh, let's, let's keep it that way. Let's promise, let's do a blood oath. That neither one of us will ever see that.

• 42:43Josh Clark?

  I think we also, we talked about that in the uncanny valley episode.

• 42:46Speaker 02

  Oh, sure, we had to have. I will say this about Santa Claus, the 76 second film. Given that most movies from this era look pretty creepy. And given that every Santa from this era looks really creepy.

• 43:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 43:00Speaker 02

  Uh, this Santa creeping through the room over these children, I was ready for this thing to just make my hair stand on end. And it wasn't that bad, a little bit of creep, but it was actually had a little sweetness to it.

• 43:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah, he was a little slim for a Santa. I think that made, that added to the creepiness. But yeah, no, he was nowhere near the creepiest Santa of his time.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  But we don't know who this guy is, right?

• 43:26Josh Clark?

  No, he was uncredited. So the first Santa Claus on screen, the first person to play Santa Claus on screen, no one knows. We'll probably never know.

• 43:36Speaker 02

  It's not Tim Allen, I know that.

• 43:38Josh Clark?

  No. And shout out to Justin Childress on Edgeline Today, uh, who helped us with this, did some great research and made a nice little article.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  All right. How are we gonna wrap it up? Oh, wait, we need to get in our sleigh first.

• 43:53Josh Clark?

  Oh, okay. All right, here we go.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  Hop in the old sled and let's go.

• 44:05Josh Clark?

  Okay Chuck.

• 44:10Speaker 02

  Why do you gotta do that?

• 44:14Josh Clark?

  Did it work?

• 44:17Speaker 02

  Josh has been giving me the earworm for 16 years on the reg.

• 44:21Josh Clark?

  It just, it works really well.

• 44:24Speaker 02

  Alright, so now I'm annoyed, so let's talk about the sweetest Christmas special of all time.

• 44:29Josh Clark?

  It is sweet, isn't it? Did you watch it?

• 44:31Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 44:32Josh Clark?

  Okay, so in 1982, Christmas time 1982, it was a, there was a cavalcade of familiar characters who made their debut in Christmas specials, right? You had Pac-Man with the classic Christmas comes to Pac-land. Something good. The Smurfs Christmas special, which actually is quite good.

• 44:53Speaker 02

  I was too old for Smurf, so.

• 44:55Josh Clark?

  I went back and watched it like last week or a couple of days ago and I was like, this is pretty good.

• 44:59Speaker 02

  Pretty good, alright.

• 45:01Josh Clark?

  And then, far and away, the best of the bunch that came out in 1982 and among the top ever Christmas TV specials, if you ask me, was Ziggy's Gift, which is, like you said, incredibly sweet.

• 45:15Speaker 02

  That's right. Ziggy is the comic strip character Ziggy, the little short bald, um, how old is Ziggy? That was one of my questions.

• 45:25Josh Clark?

  He's timeless, ageless.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  I mean, is it supposed to be a grown up though?

• 45:28Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah, he's not a kid.

• 45:29Speaker 02

  Okay, I couldn't tell because I wasn't into Ziggy, but did, you know, some Ziggy research and looked back at some of the comics and, you know, Ziggy was beloved because Ziggy was great and Ziggy was sweet and Ziggy was joyful and Ziggy was not cynical. Ziggy lived with a dog and a parrot and you might find a Ziggy comic strip that was just a little rye joke, or you might find a Ziggy comic that is literally just Ziggy smiling and looking at you and saying hello.

• 46:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and so he was like indefatigable even though basically his entire life went wrong at every turn.

• 46:09Josh Clark?

  And he like, he could be affected by that. He was put off. He was mad. He wasn't like, he was some sort of smiling automaton. But he returned back to his like upbeat outlook on life very quickly. Like that was his default setting. And just reading Ziggy cartoons, it's like, it does it to you, you know? It really brings it out.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:26Josh Clark?

  And so Ziggy had been around since, I think, in the paper since 1970. And it built up like a pretty good audience by 1982. So it was a big deal when Ziggy was coming to TV. Tom Wilson, the creator of Ziggy, did a bunch of interviews with different newspapers. And everybody was quite excited that Ziggy was having his own Christmas special.

• 46:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. And he really pulled out all the stops. Because not only is it a Christmas special, an animated Christmas special, but it was one that really took the time with the artistry to just knock it out of the park. A typical half hour animated special at the time had about 35,000 drawings. Ziggy's gift had close to 140,000 drawings. They usually have about 50 rough sketches to sort of map out the story. There were 1,200 for Ziggy's gift. And for all of this effort, A, you got an animated special that, for the time, again, when you look back now,

• 47:27Speaker 02

  really good, smooth, outstanding animation, and it won the primetime Emmy for outstanding animated program that year.

• 47:34Josh Clark?

  Yeah, beat Garfield, beat the Smurfs.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  Take that, Smurfs.

• 47:38Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it beat Charlie Brown twice, two different Charlie Brown specials.

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Good grief.

• 47:43Josh Clark?

  There was just no chance that anybody was gonna beat Ziggy's gift that year.

• 47:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:48Josh Clark?

  And also not just the animation. I mean, like, people like animation buffs are like, this is a classic masterpiece of animation. But the plot too was really good. Like, the thing seems longer than 22 minutes. It's not like it drags. They just packed a lot into this 22 minutes, even though it just kind of takes its own time. That's great. It's pretty funny in a lot of places. It's sweet throughout. And all this kind of came together and formed this perfect, sweet little 22 minute Christmas special.

• 48:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. When it came time to make the special, They were like, what do we do with Ziggy's voice? Like, how do we cast this iconic silent character? Because you can really ruin like a comic strip character come to life if you don't get the voice right.

• 48:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 48:35Speaker 02

  And so they decided not to use a voice at all, which was brilliant. And apparently that came from Wilson's daughter, who a few years before said that the reason it's hard to find a voice for Ziggy is because when you read Ziggy, you hear your own voice.

• 48:51Josh Clark?

  Out of the mouths of babes, you know?

• 48:52Speaker 02

  Amazing. She was 32 at the time, but.

• 48:58Josh Clark?

  That's great. So, um, yeah, the whole thing came together to make this really great Christmas special. But what's puzzling about it is it didn't become an enduring classic. Like, the latest I could see on good old newspapers.com was 1986. That's when the TV listings for Ziggy's gift around December just dried up. But the great thing about it, and the reason why we're doing this, we're covering Ziggy's gift, is there's like a couple of generations out there who don't even know this exists.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:29Josh Clark?

  And are going to be so happy to find this sweet little Christmas special that I hope everybody who's listening, who's never seen it, really enjoys. And if you have seen it, it's been a little while, if it's been a day, doesn't matter, go watch it again, because it just gets you every time.

• 49:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. And get your What Would Ziggy Do t-shirt printed up.

• 49:50Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's another thing, too. You could really get into Ziggy after watching that. And there's a lot of great, like, vintage Ziggy stuff, like stickers of Ziggy catching a rainbow in a butterfly net, that kind of stuff.

• 50:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you could, uh, you know, get Ziggy with it.

• 50:05Josh Clark?

  Very nice. There's no way to end this better than that, Chuck.

• 50:09Speaker 02

  It's my last bad joke of the year.

• 50:11Josh Clark?

  So let's get a little more Christmas music in, and then we'll wish everybody Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. How about that?

• 50:16Speaker 02

  Let's do it.

• 50:34Speaker 02

  All right. Well, that is it for the Christmas special this year. We want to wish everyone a very Merry Christmas or Merry and Happy Holiday of your choice, however you choose to celebrate.

• 50:45Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  We're Christmas guys, so that's what we do around here. And I'm wishing you and Yumi and Momo a very Merry Christmas and Jerry and Dave and Livia and Dave and Kyle and who else? Ben?

• 51:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah, the whole crew. And back at you too. Merry Christmas to you and Ruby and Emily for sure.

• 51:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, thanks, man. And of course with Jerry, her lovely wife and daughter as well.

• 51:11Josh Clark?

  Yep. So Merry Christmas to all of you. Happy holidays to all of you from everybody here. Stuff You Should Know, we hope it's a great one for you. And go watch Siggy's Gift and feel love. Merry Christmas, everybody.

• 51:29Speaker 00

  Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.