SYMHC Classics: Libertalia

This 2018 episode covers Libertalia, which, in truth, may be completely fictional. It's called a pirate settlement, though the man who spearheaded it claimed he wasn't actually a pirate. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Tracy V. Wilson?

  You already like YouTube, so how could YouTube get any better? Premium is the supercharged way to experience YouTube. There are a lot of additional features and benefits, including ad-free, uninterrupted videos, background play, so you can keep listening even when the screen is locked on your phone. I know when I have a YouTube video playing and I'm walking around the kitchen and I instinctively turn the screen off, having the video stop is annoying. You can also download your videos to watch anywhere. Whenever I'm traveling, if I'm going to be away from Wi-Fi for a while, I love having things that are loaded up and ready to go, so I don't have to worry about it. Whether you are relaxing at home or on the go, it is built for you because your YouTube experience got even better with Premium.

• 0:48Tracy V. Wilson?

  So if you like YouTube, you'll love Premium. Sign up now for your free trial. Terms and conditions apply.

• 0:54Holly Frey?

  We've all tumbled down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose, and it leaves us more anxious than informed. Our feeds are full of wellness trends, but how do we know what's real, what's exaggerated, and what's just wrong? Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association breaks it all down. Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends, not to cancel them, but to understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. So listen to Health vs. Hype wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:26Tracy V. Wilson?

  Whether you're calling the wise women in your life, video calling your girlfriends across the country, or checking in on someone who always knows how to make you smile, staying connected matters. Those small conversations, shared laughs, and quick hellos are what keep relationships strong even when life gets busy. Some of the most life-giving conversations start with just a phone call. That's why AT&T guarantees the network you can rely on, so you can focus on the moments and people that matter most. That's the AT&T Guarantee. AT&T: Connecting Changes Everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details. Workplace chaos. We've all been there. Deadlines are slipping, projects are piling up, and suddenly you realize the missing piece is the right person.

• 2:09Tracy V. Wilson?

  That's when you say, this is a job for sponsored jobs. With Indeed Sponsored Jobs, your job post gets a boost, so you can connect with quality candidates faster. In fact, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. Spend less time searching and more time interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

• 2:41Holly Frey?

  Happy Saturday. Since we had a pirate episode this week, we are returning to that theme for today's Saturday classic. It is about the pirate utopia of Libertalia, which may or may not have been a real place.

• 2:54Tracy V. Wilson?

  This originally came out on July 11, 2018. Enjoy.

• 3:01Holly Frey?

  Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.

• 3:11Holly Frey?

  Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Frey.

• 3:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  And I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

• 3:16Holly Frey?

  And today, I thought we were due for a little bit of fun summer pirate time.

• 3:23Holly Frey?

  This one is kind of a fun story. It's a little kooky. This is a subject that goes by two names, depending on the source you're looking at. Sometimes you will hear it as Libertalia with a TIA ending. Some of it is Libertalia with an LIA ending. That's one of those things that even in different printings of the same book, you will see it both ways, depending on the printer's decision, I presume. The other part that's fun is that this may or may not have been a real thing.

• 3:52Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yep.

• 3:52Holly Frey?

  But it is an interesting thing to examine. The primary account that we have of Libertalia is from A General History of the Robberies and Murders of the Most Notorious Pirates. This is in Volume Two, so if you go looking online and you only get Volume One, you will not find this and be like, what? You said this was in here. Volume Two. That one published in 1728. The writing lists its author as Captain Charles Johnson. And we're going to circle back to more specifics about its authorship at the end. We've talked about it on the show before as well, but we will revisit it. And the idea that a bunch of pirates wanted to create a utopia of equality, which is what this story is, might seem a little bit far-fetched, but it does sound a lot like

• 4:34Holly Frey?

  other utopian experiments we've talked about, just set earlier on the timeline and with a high seas theme. And there are also some instances we know about of pirates kind of trying to do that, which we'll talk about at the end.

• 4:46Tracy V. Wilson?

  And it's also in a place in the world that there were definitely a lot of pirates.

• 4:51Holly Frey?

  Yes, we talk about that at the end as well. And Libertalia, which in truth, as we said, might be completely fictional, would have been settled sometime, probably in the late 17th century. And that's just based kind of on backdating from when the book was published, because we don't have much in terms of specific dates beyond that. So we're going to go through this whole story of this unique pirate settlement as laid out in The General History by Johnson. And then we will talk about the other author, who usually gets credit for writing his story, and whether that history has roots in reality.

• 5:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  The story of Libertalia begins with a man named Mison. He was a Frenchman born in Provence to a good family. The true name of the family is purposefully left out of The General History of Pirates to safeguard their reputation. While Mison's father did pretty well, there were so many children in the family that he knew he needed to go make his own way in the world, rather than depending on any inheritance, which is a popular pirate origin story.

• 5:55Holly Frey?

  Yes, indeed. This one, kind of as we go through, you'll find checks kind of all the boxes of popular pirate stories. But it also has the fun one of, we're not pirates. So Mison was educated in humanity, logic, and mathematics. And then, at age 15, was sent to Angers in western France for a year of military training. And per Charles Johnson's account, which he claims is sourced from Mison's own writing about his life, Mison's father had a life as a musketeer in mind for his son. But Mison had decided on a life at sea.

• 6:30Tracy V. Wilson?

  So Mison's father set him up with letters of recommendation, all of the items he might need, and then arranged for a volunteer stint aboard the Victoire, which was a ship commanded by a relative named Monsieur Forbey. The young Mison aboard the Victoire departed the port at Marseille and ventured into the Mediterranean.

• 6:50Holly Frey?

  Mison learned about navigation and life at sea, and he spent his early time on the Victoire, learning all that he could from the more experienced men aboard. According to the story, he just was constantly asking them questions. And he loved being a sailor, and he was well-regarded because of his really well-mannered demeanor.

• 7:09Tracy V. Wilson?

  But when the Victoire set into port in Naples, Mison's life course changed. He got permission from the captain to go ashore and to travel inland to Rome. But what he found there was really disheartening. He was really chagrined at all the licentiousness and the indulgence of the papal court. He really lost his faith, deciding that, quote, "all religion was no more than a curb upon the minds of the weaker, which the wiser sort yield to in appearance only."

• 7:38Holly Frey?

  And while in Rome, Mison, who was pretty devout at that point, went to confession. And in doing so, he met a, quote, "lewd priest" by the name of Caraccioli, who was Dominican. And while making the acquaintance of a man of the church who was not exactly a pillar of piety solidified Mison's perceptions that the church was corrupt, he and Caraccioli became friends, and they actually would remain companions for the rest of their lives.

• 8:04Tracy V. Wilson?

  Caraccioli told Mison that a life in the church was a pretty good gig. It came with friends and opportunities and, quote, "the ecclesiastical state was governed with the same policy as were secular principalities and kingdoms, that what was beneficial, not what was meritorious and virtuous, would be alone regarded." He likened the papacy to a monarchy to explain the situation to Mison, and he explained his own contempt at the whole structure, saying, quote, "For my part, I am quite tired of the farce and will lay hold on the first opportunity to throw off this masquerading habit."

• 8:41Holly Frey?

  The priest went on to say that he was worried that by the time he stayed in the church long enough to make a tidy living so that he could leave, that he would be too old to enjoy any of it. So Mison proposed that the priest join him on the seas. And so the two men traveled together to Livorno, Italy, to meet back up with the Victoire. And with Mison's recommendation, Caraccioli was welcomed onto the crew.

• 9:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  Almost immediately, Caraccioli got a taste of the dangers of sailing life. The Victoire was engaged in a long and brutal battle with two other ships. Caraccioli was shot in the leg in this conflict, and it was a massive struggle, but ultimately the Victoire won. There wasn't much of value to take from the bested opponents, but an estimated 15 Christian slaves were freed in the process. After the battle, the battle damaged Victoire, headed back into Marseille for repair, and Mison used the downtime to visit his family, bringing Caraccioli along with him. He also brought with him word from the captain that Mison had conducted himself admirably at sea.

• 9:47Holly Frey?

  Yeah, he had a nice little letter to show his parents that he was doing a good job.

• 9:52Holly Frey?

  After a month of rest, the captain of the Victoire sent word to Mison and his friend that they were to set sail again, leaving from Marseille to go to Rochelle to pick up merchantmen and sail for the West Indies. And as the crew waited at Rochelle for the next phase of the journey, the merchant ships that they were to join with weren't ready to set sail, Mison and Caraccioli decided to take work on another vessel in the meantime, because he did not like to be idle at all.

• 10:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  They got into some adventures along the way, but the more important part of their escapades, as related in The General History, was their ongoing discussion of religion and God. Through these discussions, Mison was adopting a deist philosophy and continuing to just turn away from all organized religion. There's a chunk of text that's several paragraphs long, in which the writer seems to be sorting out his own thoughts on the matter of God and the soul. Caraccioli continued to speak on religion, both with Mison and with the other sailors on their journeys. And as such, he became something of a religious leader. Simultaneously, because both Caraccioli and Mison had become highly skilled sailors, a lot of the men they traveled with were really looking up to both of them.

• 11:04Holly Frey?

  Yeah, there's a sort of wonderful irony that Caraccioli wants to leave the church because he thinks organized religion is not for him either. And then he sort of becomes a religious leader after that. That's kind of a fascinating twist. So on a cruise to Martinique, the Victoire was engaged in battle by an Englishman of war with 40 guns called the Wind Chelsea. The early battle took a serious toll on the leadership of the Victoire. The captain, second captain, and three lieutenants were all killed very early on. So, short on officers, Mison and Caraccioli, who had always been quick to step up when needed, began giving orders and leading the remaining Victoire crew.

• 11:47Holly Frey?

  They were victorious, but this was actually by accident because for reasons unknown, the Wind Chelsea exploded, killing all of its crew, save one lieutenant, who died two days later aboard the Victoire.

• 11:59Tracy V. Wilson?

  And after the conflict with the Wind Chelsea, Caraccioli saluted Mison as captain and told him that he must make a choice to return to port and be at the mercy of other men's decisions, or to take the Victoire as his own and make his fortune.

• 12:14Holly Frey?

  Mison opted for freedom, but stated to the assembled crew that, quote, "A great number of them had resolved with him upon a life of liberty and had done him the honor to create him chief, that he designed to force no man and be guilty of that injustice he blamed in others. Therefore, if any were averse to the following his fortune, which he promised should be the same to all, he desired they would declare themselves, and he would set them ashore whence they might return with conveniency." They could basically opt out of this sort of life of piracy, but his offer was instead met with shouts of "Vive le capitaine Mison."

• 12:53Tracy V. Wilson?

  Which is also the origin story of most of pirate crews.

• 12:58Holly Frey?

  Yes, "I'm gonna be cool, you guys. You don't have to come with me, but if you want to, let's go. Let's all go."

• 13:04Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yep. We're going to talk about Mison's life and leadership, but first, we will pause for a quick sponsor break.

• 13:12Speaker 03

  So YouTube Premium, it takes something you already love, that being YouTube, and it makes it even better. Not just the experience, but the content, the creators.

• 13:26Speaker 04

  The feeling of finding exactly what you're into for every mood, every moment of your day. Premium transforms that experience into a more supercharged, enhanced way to enjoy YouTube.

• 13:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, folks, a YouTube Premium experience gives you access to exclusive YouTube features and benefits, and these are real game changers for us.

• 13:45Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, that includes, but it's not limited to, ad-free viewing of YouTube. Imagine no more ads popping up in the middle of videos or at the end of videos, uninterrupted videos.

• 13:56Speaker 03

  And now think about this, let's say you're using YouTube on the go, you're exercising, you're washing dishes, you can have YouTube playing in the background with Premium, which means you can keep listening while your screen is locked.

• 14:09Speaker 04

  Also, you can download videos offline, so you don't even need Wi-Fi connection to watch your stuff.

• 14:15Speaker 03

  I love this on plane flights.

• 14:17Speaker 04

  Ben, how have you been using YouTube Premium?

• 14:19Speaker 03

  Oh, man. Well, Matt, you know, I like to take a night walk, and YouTube Premium is perfect for this because of the background play, so I can pull up a documentary about the neighborhood I'm walking around in, put the phone in my pocket, and still hear everything perfectly.

• 14:35Speaker 04

  Amazing.

• 14:36Speaker 03

  So don't delay, sign up now for your free trial. Terms and conditions apply.

• 14:40Speaker 05

  First thought is like, wow, how are we gonna do all this?

• 14:43Tracy V. Wilson?

  Hey, everybody, it's Tracy from Stuff You Missed in History Class. That's Alan Goya, a planning engineer at AT&T. He's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, defining the fan's experience. And Alan's master plan made it all possible.

• 15:04Speaker 05

  It was good arrival, anything that was already built, and that takes quite a bit of people and different teams to all be on the same page.

• 15:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  That includes field services manager Drexel Jones. His team made sure it all came together and held up on game day.

• 15:18Speaker 06

  Through what Alan's whole crew designed, we connected the event visitors to the world.

• 15:24Tracy V. Wilson?

  And after years of hard work and collaboration, it was opening night.

• 15:27Speaker 06

  To actually see the whole stadium light up and data's flowing is a beautiful thing.

• 15:31Speaker 05

  What the fans experience is incredible. It gave me a lot of pride.

• 15:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  AT&T, connecting fans to what they love.

• 15:38Speaker 07

  Connecting changes everything. AT&T.

• 15:40Holly Frey?

  We've all done it, tumble down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose. And sometimes doing our own research can leave us more anxious than informed. Your feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep, but what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube, talks to doctors, influencers,

• 16:21Holly Frey?

  and real people trying these trends, not to cancel them, not to hype them more, but to actually understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Start asking better questions and listen to Health vs. Hype on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Guess who's back in the house? The old gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert McMillan and Jesse have in store this time around. They strut back down memory lane, navigating life, love, loss, and everything that shaped

• 17:05Holly Frey?

  them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kinds of insights that can only come from experience. So listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you. All sass, zero filter, and decades of perspective from four friends proving that queer joy only gets better with age on the podcast that never gets old. Listen to Silver Linings, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 17:40Holly Frey?

  So Mison immediately set the tone of his leadership by giving the crew the power to select their own officers. Then their next destination was agreed upon as a group. Mison suggested the coast of Spain. All of the men were in accord with that course. Then they had to decide on their colors, and at this point, Caraccioli was quick to clarify that they were in fact not pirates, quote, "but men who were resolved to assert that liberty which God and nature gave them and owe no subjection to any farther than was for the common good of all."

• 18:22Holly Frey?

  So he advised that they fly under a white flag, quote, "with liberty painted on the fly."

• 18:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  Next, the belongings of all the officers who were slain in the fight with the Wind Chelsea were brought on the deck, and the money on board was put into a chest, which was declared to belong equally to all the men. The lieutenants were asked to make an assessment of the men on board and determine who had immediate need of clothes, so that they could be prioritized to receive the clothes of the deceased men. Mison followed this up with a speech that the men should all show one another brotherly love and cast aside any grudges they had, and that they should see one another as equals, quote, "For when equity was trodden underfoot, misery, confusion, and mutual distrust naturally followed."

• 19:06Holly Frey?

  It sounds so idyllic. Everybody love one another, we're all in this together. But it was not all hippie love from Mison, as he also declared war on any ports that would deny them entry and any who would not give them what they needed. He was basically saying, so we know we're not pirates, but other people might not get that, and if they treat us like we're pirates, we're gonna have to get piratical. He did also admonish his men to always treat prisoners humanely and generously for the sakes of their immortal souls.

• 19:39Tracy V. Wilson?

  The Victoire and its crew then did some plundering in the most polite way possible. They took sugar and rum from a ship without violence and then let it go. They made fake runs at privateers with no intent to actually engage them, betting that the ship would try to take them, which meant that they could then defend themselves. At one point, Mison told a privateer captain that he would plunder nothing from the captured ship, but that they would strip it of guns, and the privateers had to promise not to engage in piracy for six months.

• 20:08Holly Frey?

  They made their way around the globe for a while, and eventually, Mison had two ships under his command. He had taken a ship whose crew was so charmed that they all opted to join with him. And at this point, Caraccioli was named captain of the second ship, which was named the Bijou. And the two vessels made their way around the Cape of Good Hope and then on to Madagascar.

• 20:29Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mison allied himself to the royal family of an island near Madagascar in a conflict with a neighboring kingdom. He also married into the royal family, and so did Caraccioli. Men of the crew married non-royal women of the island of Johanna, which is modern-day Anjouan, and Mison and his men helped to defend people of the island against invaders.

• 20:51Holly Frey?

  Yeah, there was actually an invasion by the queen's brother that they defended against, and they were always the good guys in this story. So not long after those events, Mison made his way to nearby northern Madagascar, and he scoped out an area of land that appealed to him, and then he went ashore, and he found good soil there and available fresh water, and he decided that he wanted to settle a town there. And this place that he envisioned would have docks, and it would be an asylum, a place for aging men of the sea to live out the remainder of their lives in peace, and he would call it Libertalia.

• 21:27Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mison waited for his entire crew to agree to his plans before he actually began the project. All of the men agreed to the plan, and they immediately set to work on his designs. And within 10 days, they had cleared 150 large trees from the area. He requested that the royal family of Johanna loan him 300 men to help with the project and return for the assistance that had been provided in their defense. And after a great deal of debate among the leaders of that island, some of whom feared that enabling the settlement could lead to their own enslavement down the road, the 300 men were loaned for labor.

• 22:04Holly Frey?

  Yeah, a lot of that discussion centered around, wait, we're gonna help them build a place from which they could actually come after us? And it was like, well, maybe, but that's better than saying no to them and having them come after us now, right? Like, this way, we at least have a chance that we'll still all be friends.

• 22:26Holly Frey?

  And Libertalia was set on a harbor and the first structures that were built were armed forts on either side of it. And then homes and shops were built and the town slowly began to take shape. Efforts were made to make friends with the native peoples of Madagascar. Of course, that is one of those things that is also always framed from a very European perspective. So take that as note if you go looking for this story. And Libertalia was on its way to becoming the peaceful settlement that Misson had envisioned when he first ventured onto the land. Libertalia was anti-slavery. This is something that comes up throughout this account. Misson and his men liberated slave ships whenever they came across them. And on occasions when slaves were offered to them as barter, they would always accept

• 23:10Holly Frey?

  them and then immediately set them free. Misson wanted the people who chose to settle in Libertalia to be called liberi. The idea was that it was open to all and that it transcended any prior nationality and signaled a community of equals.

• 23:24Tracy V. Wilson?

  Libertalia wasn't Misson's only focus during this formative time, though. He still took the Victoire out to challenge ships and take their goods. And he met with a mix of good and bad luck on the sea. In one skirmish with a Portuguese ship, he was able to take a large sum of money, which was about 200,000 pounds. But he also lost 56 men in the process, making it the greatest loss of life that he experienced in this kind of conflict. But he made his way home to the developing town of Libertalia.

• 23:54Holly Frey?

  And from its rudimentary beginnings, the land was worked to grow food and the town was able to barter with other villages. They ended up with several hundred head of cattle. But in addition to growing its footprint and its own crops, Libertalia also grew in population because other people came to live there, including the English privateer Captain Thomas Two. Missol had first encountered Two when the latter's sloop appeared in the waters off the coast of Madagascar. It appeared there might have been a potential idea that they were going to take this new town. But eventually, things led to Two and his men joining the colony at Libertalia.

• 24:33Tracy V. Wilson?

  If his name sounds familiar, he was part of our episode about Henry Every and the raid on the Mughal fleet.

• 24:40Holly Frey?

  He pops up in a lot of places. He was a very busy world traveler.

• 24:43Tracy V. Wilson?

  He was. Missol and Two didn't always see things in the same light, though. Even when Two first arrived in Libertalia, Missol was also coming in with a Portuguese ship that he had taken. Misson quickly realized that if they were going to keep the prisoners they had taken, they would need men to be on guard against an uprising, which meant he wouldn't have enough men to go back out to sea. And while he had established the settlement as a home base and as a place where any mariner could call home, he wanted to continue his voyages as long as he could. He was still building his settlement and was, to be clear, getting supplies and fortifications and wealth by taking them from ships that he bested, even if he was being polite about it.

• 25:26Holly Frey?

  Yeah, I don't want to lose sight of the fact that he was stealing from people, even if he seems like a great magnanimous dude.

• 25:33Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, I'm going to build a pirate utopia funded by piracy, but I'm not calling it that.

• 25:40Holly Frey?

  You guys, we are not pirates unless people treat us like pirates. And then we kind of got to be pirates a little bit. There's a moral flexibility in the mix of this whole story. So he had planned to just let the ship, the Portuguese ship that he had taken and its prisoners go. He also just didn't want to take on the load of having to see to the needs of all those captured men. Like, to him, this was just way too great a burden for any value they were going to get out of it. But Two, and even Caraccioli, were not fans of this idea of letting everybody go. They knew that if they set those prisoners free, all of Europe would soon know about Libertalia and would invade.

• 26:17Tracy V. Wilson?

  Misson called a council and explained his position. And the men of the council agreed with him. All the prisoners were brought before Misson. He told them that he knew that they would cause his demise, but that he could cause their deaths if he wished, and that he needed them each to swear an oath not to work against him. Then he gave each of them back any belongings that had been taken from them and set them to sail on a ship that was stripped of all of its guns.

• 26:45Holly Frey?

  Yeah, I feel like so much of his leadership is based on the like, we cool?

• 26:50Holly Frey?

  Like, that's his whole approach. Are we cool? The next move for Libertalia was actually away from this everybody be cool, freedom and no rules approach that it began with. But we will talk about that after we first hear from one of our sponsors.

• 27:08Speaker 03

  So YouTube Premium, it takes something you already love, that being YouTube, and it makes it even better. Not just the experience, but the content, the creators.

• 27:18Speaker 04

  The feeling of finding exactly what you're into for every mood, every moment of your day. Premium transforms that experience into a more supercharged, enhanced way to enjoy YouTube.

• 27:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, folks, a YouTube Premium experience gives you access to exclusive YouTube features and benefits. And these are real game changers for us.

• 27:38Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, that includes but it's not limited to ad-free viewing of YouTube. Imagine no more ads popping up in the middle of videos or at the end of videos, uninterrupted videos.

• 27:48Speaker 03

  And now think about this. Let's say you're using YouTube on the go. You're exercising, you're washing dishes. You can have YouTube playing in the background with Premium, which means you can keep listening while your screen is locked.

• 28:02Speaker 04

  Also, you can download videos offline, so you don't even need Wi-Fi connection to watch your stuff.

• 28:08Speaker 03

  I love this on plane flights.

• 28:09Speaker 04

  Ben, how have you been using YouTube Premium?

• 28:12Speaker 03

  Oh, man. Well, Matt, you know, I like to take a night walk and YouTube Premium is perfect for this because of the background play. So I can pull up a documentary about the neighborhood I'm walking around in, put the phone in my pocket, and still hear everything perfectly.

• 28:28Speaker 04

  Amazing.

• 28:29Speaker 03

  So don't delay. Sign up now for your free trial. Terms and conditions apply.

• 28:34Holly Frey?

  We've all done it. Tumble down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose. And sometimes doing our own research can leave us more anxious than informed. Your feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube, talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends. Not to cancel them, not to hype them

• 29:18Holly Frey?

  more, but to actually understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Start asking better questions and listen to Health vs. Hype on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 29:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  Guess who's back in the house? The old gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert McMillan and Jess A. have in store this time around. They strut back down memory lane, navigating life, love, loss, and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kinds of insights that can only come from experience. So listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you. All sass, zero filter,

• 30:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  and decades of perspective from four friends proving that queer joy only gets better with age on the podcast that never gets old. Listen to Silver Linings, available on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 30:36Speaker 07

  Okay, chicken nugget fans, I've got huge news. The new Burger King Chicken Nuggets just dropped, and they are the crispiest, the juiciest, and the tastiest chicken nuggets ever at Burger King. Burger King heard that a lot of you didn't like the old chicken nuggets, so they got to work and reinvented them. To go along with the new chicken nuggets, a lot of the sauces were reinvented, too, because better chicken nuggets deserve better sauces. We're talking new buffalo sauce, honey mustard, sweet and sour, and even a whole new option, too, the new special savory sauce, which is only available for a limited time at participating US restaurants. I mean, you need to taste it all for yourself. This

• 31:18Speaker 07

  new chicken nugget, reinvented, based on real feedback, is made with 100% white meat chicken and is now better than ever. You got to try the new Burger King Chicken Nuggets and sauces today.

• 31:36Holly Frey?

  While the idea of a utopia always sounds great in theory, in practice, it is really hard to throw a bunch of humans together, tell them they all equally share in the land and the work, and have the whole thing chug along without any conflict. They are humans after all. And while things seem to work with Misson's original group, after Two and his men became part of Libertalia, conflict started to arise.

• 32:01Tracy V. Wilson?

  On one occasion, Libertalia was invaded by Portuguese sloops. The battle played out, and Misson's men were victorious, and they treated the defeated men who survived with kindness and hospitality, until they saw two of the men who had been set free under oath not to bring any trouble into the settlement. These two men were tried for perjury, found guilty, and executed, and this caused some men to question Misson's leadership. While Misson and Caraccioli saw this execution as a matter of self preservation of their way of life, some of the men saw it as a contradiction of everything they'd been told about Libertalia and about its values. Eventually, Caraccioli was able to convince everyone of the necessity of the execution, but it took a lot of

• 32:45Tracy V. Wilson?

  effort and rhetoric.

• 32:47Holly Frey?

  Yeah, he sounds, based on this account, like he was really quite a good public speaker, but he was often convincing all of the men of what should be done. But then, not long after this, there was an argument between Two's men and Misson's. The nature of this argument is a little unclear, although the account says that Two's men started it. Two thought that the matter should be solved with swords, but Misson and Caraccioli wanted to negotiate some sort of accord. They did not want to set up their new little utopia as a place where you settled your disagreements by potentially killing each other. And while they sorted out the matter at hand, and they figured out how to settle this particular argument, all three of the captains came to the conclusion that it was

• 33:31Holly Frey?

  actually time for Libertalia to have some actual laws.

• 33:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  So everyone, the entire colony, was gathered so that the three commanders could explain this plan. They had to have some sort of government, and Misson, Caraccioli, and Two proposed a democratic system with laws made by the people. The men were to divide themselves into groups of 10, and from each group, one representative was to be chosen who would assist in setting up the laws and the government of the settlement. Property and land were to be divided evenly, but that it would be owned by each man. It would no longer be a system of collective ownership.

• 34:09Holly Frey?

  On the first day that the newly selected lawmakers met, Caraccioli made a speech and proposed that there should be a Lord Conservator, basically a president that would be elected and would serve for terms of three years. So he could be reelected, but every three years, they would revisit that. And all agreed, and of course, Misson was immediately made conservator. And Two was named as Conservator Admiral, and Caraccioli was Secretary of State. And for 10 full days, this new governing body worked to set up the laws of Libertalia.

• 34:40Tracy V. Wilson?

  They began, under Caraccioli's office, to even develop a new language for Libertalia that incorporated the various native languages of the many people who had settled there. They carefully balanced the manpower that was needed to maintain their animals and their crops against their needs for naval reinforcements.

• 34:59Holly Frey?

  Yeah, Two was like, "Let's build our navy," and they were like, "Hey, somebody's got to feed the cows." So they kind of were figuring out some pretty advanced kind of balancing systems about what their society could handle. And Admiral Two then set out to gather more members of the colony, hoping to meet with ships at sea and offer to take volunteers to bolster Libertalia's numbers. He also went and visited places he knew and sort of told people about it. And as part of his canvassing for new citizens, which he first began by finding a settlement of his former men, who had not joined up with Libertalia but had started their own camp, he spoke really passionately about Libertalia and its government built around fairness and equality.

• 35:44Holly Frey?

  But also, he was clear to say that the settlement was also willing to work with other governments, saying, quote, "If you will go to America or Europe and show the advantage which may accrue to the English by fixing a colony here, out of the love we bear our country and to wipe away the odious appellation of pirates, with pleasure we will submit to any who shall come with a commission from a lawful government. But it is ridiculous to think we will become subjects of greater rogues than ourselves."

• 36:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  But while Two was visiting with his friends and potential recruits to their small paradise, he was surprised when Misson himself found him and told him that everything they had built had been lost. Misson told Two that the native peoples had attacked the settlement, killed Caraccioli and many others, and that only he and 45 other men had managed to escape aboard the Bijou.

• 36:38Holly Frey?

  Yeah, this was at a point when Two was kind of stranded. There had been a big storm, and the Victoire had actually capsized, and many of the crew were killed, but they weren't able to get the ship. And Two thought that they should head to America and make a fresh start. And there was even discussion that, like, hey, we know how to do this now, let's make another settlement. But Misson was so devastated at having lost all of his work that he just had no heart for another attempt.

• 37:07Tracy V. Wilson?

  So Misson took the Victoire and set out with a plan that he would meet Two again on the Guinea coast to regroup, but that meeting never happened. The Victoire sank during a storm, and Misson went down with the ship.

• 37:20Holly Frey?

  So it has come up on the show before, but just to recap, since the 1930s, the history of the lives and bloody exploits of the most noted pirates, sometimes a general history of pirates, you'll see it listed in a number of different ways, because on some republications, it has gotten new titles, has been attributed to journalist, spy, and novelist Daniel Defoe. And that attribution came about through the work of John Robert Moore, who was a Defoe biographer, and it has been pretty widely accepted as truth at this point.

• 37:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, there are some other candidates that people name, including Nathaniel Mist, who was a sailor and a publisher, but it's so frequently associated with Daniel Defoe that a lot of times, that is who the author is listed as in the library or wherever, with like, no little asterisk or anything.

• 38:06Holly Frey?

  Yeah, there are definitely versions that don't really even talk about how it came to be that it gets that attribution.

• 38:13Tracy V. Wilson?

  So remembering that Defoe's most famous works were novels, like Robinson Crusoe and Moll Flanders, with little evidence to back up what's contained in it, this account in A General History of the Robberies and Murders of the Most Notorious Pirates is pretty much believed to be fictional. I mean, it's, we've talked about this book in a bunch of different episodes, and it's all, they all involve people we know were real and were involved in piracy, but the details, a lot of times, are very questionable. In an introduction to a modern printing of this work, Maximilian Inovak wrote that "The account of the crew and the captain that founded the Libertalia is one of the, quote, 'most

• 38:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  remarkable and neglected works of fiction' among Defoe's work."

• 39:02Holly Frey?

  But there were, as we said, Tracy mentioned, there were definitely, in many cases, real people that these stories pulled in, and we don't, there's not a good way to verify or not. It's not like people that were living a privateering life were keeping great records, which is probably why some of these fanciful stories grew, to fill the void of people that wanted to know about them. But there were a few pirate settlements in the 17th and 18th centuries, so the idea of Libertalia is not entirely outside the bounds of possibility. And Madagascar, as Tracy mentioned at the top of the show, was a popular destination for pirates, looking for, at times, a bit of freedom and peace, and sometimes to take a break from things.

• 39:44Tracy V. Wilson?

  And also to attack other ships.

• 39:47Holly Frey?

  Well, yes. I mean, you can't live by rest alone.

• 39:50Tracy V. Wilson?

  No. There was a lot of piratical action happening in that area. Ranter's Bay in Madagascar was founded by pirate John Plantain in 1720, although he had more of a kingdom in mind than a democracy. And Illes Saint-Marie, which is four miles east of the island of Madagascar, is also believed to have been inhabited by pirates for almost a century, in a much looser sort of setup than Misson's purported settlement. So there's a pirate cemetery on that island that continues to be a tourist attraction.

• 40:23Holly Frey?

  And in 2001, author Kevin Rushby published a book called Hunting Pirate Heaven, which was part travelogue and part investigative journalism. And he himself was basically traveling the routes of privateers, seeking out the sites of the various legendary utopias that have been part of pirate lore. And he didn't find Libertalia, and no one else has any hard evidence or record of it either.

• 40:47Tracy V. Wilson?

  It does live on in popular culture, though. It has shown up in lots of books and movies and video games, including Uncharted 4 and Fallout 4. I haven't played Uncharted 4, but in Fallout 4, it's kind of a cobbled together raider settlement off the coast of Massachusetts.

• 41:03Holly Frey?

  Yeah, it's not, it's not so much of the utopia hug fest.

• 41:08Tracy V. Wilson?

  No, it's definitely not a hug fest. If you go there, people shoot at you.

• 41:14Holly Frey?

  Yeah, William Burroughs wrote about it at one point. It's shown up, it's one of those like handy kind of touchstones that people pull in when they're talking about. Piracy and privateering to give it a feel of authenticity, even though that that feel may be based on something completely fictional. But it's a fascinating idea. I do think it's interesting to examine why someone would want to write, presuming it's fiction, to write a story that is so sort of progressive in this idea of all men being equal and like so anti-slavery. It's an interesting thing that that would be framed along with the idea of piracy and freedom and from government.

• 41:58Tracy V. Wilson?

  And we're going to goad this ship into attacking us so that we can then fight back and take their stuff.

• 42:04Holly Frey?

  Right. Like I said, there's some moral flexibility baked into the whole thing, but that does become an interesting thing to look at. Like, why would that be such an appealing piece of fiction at a time that we don't often think of as being really rooted in all men being equal? It's fascinating and it's a fun read. It's a little bit tricky to get through it because the language is clunky to our modern ear. There's some, you know, fast and loose use of capitalization and so things you're like, wait, is that a proper? Oh, no, it's not. He just likes the word prize. Okay. So, yeah, there's stuff like that to contend with, but it is a really fun read.

• 42:45Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. Well, having read chunks of the book for research of various episodes of the podcast, it does tend to be a fun read, if not necessarily a historically accurate one.

• 42:57Holly Frey?

  There's part of me, there is a doofy part of me that wants in my heart for some piece of evidence to appear to prove that everything in the general history is actually accurate and true, because it would be mind blowing if that were the case.

• 43:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, like, oh, here is all of my notes, like my big file, my binder full of newspaper clippings, et cetera, that I used to research this book. Yet, no, I don't think.

• 43:22Holly Frey?

  Oh, it'd be great, wouldn't it? Be hilarious.

• 43:29Tracy V. Wilson?

  Thanks so much for joining us on this Saturday. If you'd like to send us a note, our email address is [email protected]. And you can subscribe to the show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 43:51Holly Frey?

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 44:22Tracy V. Wilson?

  Whether you're calling the wise women in your life, video calling your girlfriends across the country, or checking in on someone who always knows how to make you smile, staying connected matters. Those small conversations, shared laughs, and quick hellos are what keep relationships strong even when life gets busy. Some of the most life-giving conversations start with just a phone call. That's why AT&T guarantees the network you can rely on, so you can focus on the moments and people that matter most. That's the AT&T Guarantee. AT&T: Connecting Changes Everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit ATT.com/guarantee for details.

• 44:58Speaker 06

  Snoring, gasping for air during sleep, daytime sleepiness? I'm Shaquille O'Neal, and this shouldn't be anybody's experience. Ask your doctor about Zepbound Trisepotide, the first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea in adults with obesity.

• 45:13Speaker 03

  Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15-milligram injection. Zepbound contains trisepotide and should not be used with other trisepotide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic

• 45:58Speaker 03

  reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia, if you're nursing, pregnant, plant-to-be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulphonal urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems.

• 46:21Speaker 06

  Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979, or visit zepbound.lily.com.

• 46:28Speaker 00

  Hola a todos. Soy Jamie Lynn Segler. Cuando me diagnosticaron, tenía veintitantos años, y todo mi mundo cambió por completo. Pero con el tiempo decidí que no iba a permitir que eso frenara mi vida. Quise tomar las riendas, y después de hablar con mi médico sobre mis opciones, la elección para mí fue obvia: Boom, Ximta. Obtenga más información sobre Ximta o Fotumab en ximta.com. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.