Pod Insights Stuff You Missed in History Class Samuel Hartlib and the Hartlib Circle About this episode Samuel Hartlib doesn’t exactly spring to mind when thinking about influential figures of the 17th century. But he served as a sort of conduit for information and connections among them as he sought to promote his ideas regarding theology and education.
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2:19 Speaker 02 Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeart Radio.
2:29 Speaker 02 Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Frey. And I'm Tracy V. Wilson. So the Hartlib circle came up in research recently, and I put it right on my list because it is this very unique nexus of scientific and philosophical thought in the 17th century. Right out of the gate, we got to make a note on name pronunciation because We're having a lot of these lately. I know. This person, Samuel Hartlib, who we'll talk about some more, a whole lot today,
2:58 Speaker 02 originally was born in Prussia. His name is from the German side of his family, his father's side of the family, which would lead one to say Hartlib. And it's spelled a million different ways if you look at various historical documents. But because he did most of his work in Britain, and most of the writing about him has been in Britain, most scholars about him pronounce it Hartlib. And so we're just going to roll with that, recognizing that he, too, I don't know where he landed, if he had a preference or not. I suspect probably his contemporaries also pronounced it that way once he was living in London. The name Samuel Hartlib probably does not exactly spring to mind when people are thinking about
3:43 Speaker 02 influential figures of the 17th century. But he was very connected to a lot of the names you would think of. And he served as this sort of conduit of information to many of them and made connections among them as he sought to promote his own ideas regarding theology and education, which he saw as being very closely tied to government and successful government, as well as this really overarching goal in his life to provide ready access to information to anyone and everyone about things like the latest scientific developments. You'll see references to the Hartlib circle in a lot of writing about these people. Hartlib
4:26 Speaker 02 never called his network of people that he corresponded with anything. That name, Hartlib Circle, wasn't coined until the 20th century. And that happened then because there was a surge of scholarship about his work in the 1920s and thereafter, after a fortuitous turn of events, brought his life's work back to light.
4:49 Speaker 02 Samuel Hartlib was born around 1600, probably in Elbing, Prussia, to a German father and an English mother. So Elbing is part of modern day Poland, and in Polish, it's pronounced very differently from that, more like Elblonk. He's one of the many cases we've had on the show recently where this early life is not well documented. In a biography written by G. H. Turnbull in 1920, the biographer notes that there's no record of Hartlib in the birth records from Elbing at the time. And there are also not any records in the baptismal records from the churches of the city.
5:31 Speaker 02 He doesn't appear in any of the school records of Elbing from the time when he would have been a child. So there are just a lot of question marks about his early life and education. There are mentions of a George Hartlib, who is believed to have been Samuel's brother. Even Samuel's higher education comes with a lot of debate. He has long been cited as attending the University of Cunningsburg starting in 1614, but there are, once again, no solid records to really back that up. A more recent biography by Charles Webster, which came out in 2025, says that there's actually more substantiation that Samuel was in Cilecia and enrolled at the Academy at Brigg
6:16 Speaker 02 starting in 1615. When did he leave there? Another unanswered question. We do know that Hartlib went to the University of Cambridge, but that too has inconsistencies regarding the timing. 1628 is frequently given as the first year that we can conclusively say he was living in England. But in the latter 20th century, additional correspondence has come to light that indicates that he was definitely there before that, in the mid 1620s. And even in saying he went to Cambridge, we really have to clarify because he does not appear to have actually enrolled in the university, but did study informally with some members of its faculty.
6:59 Speaker 02 And even after that, he returned to Elbing after his time at Cambridge. So that whole, like, right up to the late 1620s, so much guesswork going on regarding his background. It's very foggy. Indeed. He became friends with John Dury in 1628. Dury was born in 1596 in Edinburgh, Scotland. So he was around the same age as Hartlib. Dury was a Protestant minister and was in Elving in 1628. And the two men met there. Soon after that, the, a series of interlocking conflicts known as the 30 Years' War,
7:39 Speaker 02 which spanned from 1618 to 1648, made Elving an increasingly more dangerous place to be. Sweden was using this port city as a base and a staging ground in the struggle for the control of the Baltic Sea. So Hartlib went to England and this time he stayed there. Dury did as well for a time and the two of them continued to be close friends. On January 20th, 1629, Samuel married a woman named Mary Burningham. Some accounts show her last name with an M like Birmingham. Unclear to me which of those is accurate. We also just don't know a whole lot about Mary, although the two of them were married for years and they had at least six children together.
8:23 Speaker 02 Most of what we know about their kids is because later in their lives, they lived near Samuel Peeps and he wrote about them. Hartlib was an active promoter of the need for reform within schools and Protestant churches. John Dury was his friend, but also one of his influences and ultimately a collaborator on many reformist texts. Dury sought to reform the church by uniting the fractured Protestant factions. Hartlib agreed with this idea and he put forth the idea that if the church could be united in England, then the whole country would benefit. And this is also where a little bit of a confession has to come in for me.
9:06 Speaker 02 I wanted so much to include lots of Hartlib's writings in this episode. But let me tell you, that is a slog. He was deeply verbose and in addition to the somewhat stilted writing of the day that you might see in any text, he was even more stilted than that. As an example, here is a portion of a pamphlet that he wrote in 1647 titled, "Consider" Tending to the happy accomplishment. So the point of this work is to make the case that if England can reform its religion, everyone will benefit, as Tracy just mentioned. This is the most easily accessible passage in terms of messaging that I could find.
9:48 Speaker 02 Quote, "And least any might make a doubt of this last position, let us a little enlarge ourselves thereon to make it more apparent from the undoubted maxims and reasons of a true reformed Christian state, such as we are now called to be, if we take notice of our condition. First, then we conceive that the glory and happiness of a state go hand in hand together, so that everything which may add unto the true glory is also fit to increase the happiness, a vice versa, on the other side whatsoever doth add unto the true happiness, is also fit to increase the glory of a state." Basically, if we're all happy, the whole country will be happy.
10:29 Speaker 02 But he has to put a lot of extra words in there. Samuel Hartlib also believed that education was vital for everyone, and one of the efforts he made early on during his time in England was the establishment of a school. This attempt was in Chichester in 1630, although that school did not draw enough students to stay open. Hartlib closed it almost immediately after founding it. It lasted for less than a year. Not long after that, he started a correspondence with John Amos Comenius, who became another huge influence. For a little background, John Amos Comenius was born in Moravia, in an area that is now part of the Czech Republic.
11:12 Speaker 02 You'll often see him described as being Czech if you look him up today. He was a minister and an educator, and he developed an ideology that he thought could lead to a deeper connection among the warring countries and cultures of Europe, and that was universal education. Comenius thought that if everyone was truly educated, they would understand and accept their fellow humans better and would be less likely to start conflicts with one another. One of the cornerstones of this idea was that everyone should learn to read Latin. He thought that this would improve access to a wide range of historical information and open up the wealth of Western knowledge to all. To Hartlib and a lot of his colleagues, these ideas of educational access and a
11:57 Speaker 02 united religion were two sides of the same coin. This was at the heart of Hartlib's thinking. He believed that God granted every person a talent and that if they shared that talent with others, everyone would learn from one another. They would all know more. They would understand each other better and people would recognize a divine hand in play for all of that to happen. Teaching everyone to read would also ensure that they could study the scriptures and become better Christians. Coming up, we will talk more about the influence of Commensius on Hartlib and we will get to that after a sponsor break.
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16:45 Speaker 02 The writings of Camenius were very important to Hartlib in his ideology. Camenius's 1632 writing, "The Gate of Tongues Unlocked," was one of many that really captured Hartlib's attention and formed the foundation of his thinking regarding education. He started translating the writing of Camenius for the English audience, and this offers another opportunity to share his proclivity for using just lots and lots of words. The title for this translation of Camenius's, one of his many writings, was, "A Reformation of Schools Designed in Two Excellent Treatises, the first whereof summarily showeth the great necessity of a general reformation of common learning. What grounds of hope there are for such a
17:30 Speaker 02 reformation, how it may be brought to pass, written many years ago in Latin by the Reverend, godly, learned, and famous divine, Mr. John Amos Camenius, one of the seniors of the exiled Church of Moravia, and now upon the request of many, translated into English and published by Samuel Hartlib for the general good of this nation." So brevity was not his strong suit. We love a long title on this one, but I was reading many of his titles. I was like, oh, oh, my friend. Goodness. But that relationship that he developed with Camenius really established Hartlib as a connecting point of European intellectuals. Camenius actually visited England in 1641
18:13 Speaker 02 on the invitation of Hartlib, and he stayed there for several months, meeting with many of London's preeminent thinkers and scientists.
18:22 Speaker 02 Associated with so many other famous names of the 17th century in the Western world. I don't think Holly mentioned in the outline, but he came up in our John Evelyn episode. Like, somebody had given him a paper and he gave that to John Evelyn. Was another example, John Milton's pamphlet of education was dedicated to Hartlib. And that's because the reformer had convinced Milton to write it. The entire thing is addressed to Hartlib. It opens with, quote, "Mr. Hartlib, I am long since persuaded that to say or do ought worth memory and imitation, no purpose or respect should sooner move us than simply the love of God and of mankind.
19:06 Speaker 02 Nevertheless, to right now, the reforming of education, though it be one of the greatest and noblest designs that can be thought on, and for the want whereof this nation perishes, I had not yet at this time been induced, but by your earnest entreaties and serious conjurments." Milton goes on to share there at the beginning of the book that Hartlib is somebody who's deeply respects and at the same time could be said of, quote, "men of most approved wisdom and some of highest authority among us." Yeah, basically just saying, like, all of us smart guys think Hartlib is great. But despite the numerous people that Hartlib was connected to and the network of correspondence
19:51 Speaker 02 he developed, it was the friendships Hartlib had with John Dury and Comenius that were the most important to him. On March 13, 1642, the three men signed a pact written in Latin that outlined their shared goals for promoting reform in education and religious unity. And the document is really fascinating because in addition to those goals, it also has this very cute vibe, in my opinion, of, "We will be BFFs forever and this is our secret."
20:23 Speaker 02 We are going to read only the most abbreviated versions of the points of the pact, and they are as follows. Number one, that we shall have before us the sole aim of manifesting God's glory and of promoting public support for our fellow men. Two, so that with God and His goodness, we may pursue this end, we set ourselves the task of recalling to a better and fuller accord in their profession of religion, those who have already been called to acknowledge Christ. Three, to the end that we may have God's favor toward us, in this our purpose, we shall strive in daily prayers before Him, in turn, both for ourselves and for all those
21:06 Speaker 02 others, wheresoever they may be, who, whether we are aware of them or not, are now stirred by God to like endeavors, or will be stirred hereafter. Four, we meanwhile, promise one another, that in these matters, we shall do nothing except it be by mutual design and consent. Five, we promise that no one of us will conceal from the other any of His thoughts, even His innermost thoughts, which have to do with this proposed goal. Six, that no one of us will take an inflexible stand against the purposes agreed among the others, but will rather yield to them, even if He may not perhaps be able
21:48 Speaker 02 to perceive fully, the strength and weight of the reasons that are put forward. Seven, we promise that we will preserve complete faithfulness in our dealings with one another. Eight, we also take it upon ourselves to freely admonish one another, but as between close friends, for any errors that may be committed out of human ignorance. Nine, it has seemed proper, and we faithfully so promise, not to divulge to others these conditions of our pact, entered into in the sight of God chiefly for our consciences' sake, unless by common consent, and then to those alone of whose suitability for future association in our treaty, we are assured.
22:33 Speaker 02 Ten. Finally, if anything further is discerned by common accord as likely to benefit this, our religious fellowship in God, it must be subscribed to these conditions of this our pact and will be equal to them in force. So they struck this pact just as the conflict between parliamentarians and the crown in England was reaching a boiling point. We've talked about the English Civil War and its causes in a bunch of other episodes, so we won't go into the depth here, but the shorthand is that Charles I, with no checks within the government that could stop him, enacted a number of policies that were damaging for a lot of his subjects that made him really
23:14 Speaker 02 disliked. That included dissolving the Parliament. He reinstated it when he needed help in the form of financial backing for his war with the Scots. Parliament began to use its reinstated power immediately, including prosecuting members of the King's Circle. Five months and two weeks after Hartlib, Dury, and Camenius signed their pact, the English Civil War began. Hartlib and his friends were parliamentarians. He and Dury stayed in the country, but Camenius left. Still, the pact remained very important to the three men, and then sometimes it is cited as a guiding force in Hartlib's life. Yeah, also, just for clarity, Dury didn't stay in England all the time. He is sometimes
23:58 Speaker 02 described as being sort of itinerant. He moved around Europe a lot. So just in case, you're like, did he live there the whole time? No. But in addition to his translation work and his prodigious correspondence with seemingly everyone, Hartlib also wrote original works. Many of these works were influenced by other reformers and thinkers of the day. For example, Francis Bacon is often cited when scholars mention Hartlib's seventeen-page pamphlet, an essay for advancement of husbandry learning, or propositions for the erecting a college of husbandry, and in order therein too, for the taking in of pupils or apprentices, and
24:38 Speaker 02 also friends or fellows of the same college or society. He published that in 1651. In it, he laid out the need for agricultural education that offered a continuous stream of the latest information and advancements in the field so that farmers could produce the best possible livestock and crops. Throughout all of this work, Hartlib was connecting people to people and more importantly, people to information. He was supported throughout his time in England by personal patronage, with people and families paying him with some degree of regularity so he could continue in his work. But he wanted to establish something more official, a means to disseminate
25:20 Speaker 02 information that would not just be him working alone, but would have a dedicated staff sending out published materials and recording new information. This was what he called the "Office of Address." In 1648, Hartlib published a pamphlet that was written either by him or by John Dury. That comes up a lot when you look at the Hartlib Papers where it's like, either Dury or Hartlib, because they worked on things together sometimes and their writing style developed in a very similar way. But that paper was titled "A Further Discovery of the Office of Public Address for Accommodations." And this read in part, "Whereby the good of the kingdom and the benefit of all inhabitants thereof may be greatly advanced, there is
26:05 Speaker 02 one very easy to be set afoot, which is called an office of address, whereby an orderly and effectual correspondence and agency will be settled for the advancement of universal learning and all manner of arts and ingenuities. Whereby ready helps will be offered to supply the wants of everyone without prejudice unto any. Whereby all manner of commerce will be mainly facilitated, and whereby everyone will be easily accommodated with such things as may be lawfully used and are usefully communicable unto everyone from each other in a well-ordered society or commonwealth, as it is more fully specified and explained in the printed discourses that describe the forset office."
26:49 Speaker 02 Listen, this is one tiny part of a very, very verbose paper. Continuing, "It is therefore most humbly desired that the Parliament would be pleased to resolve upon these following particulars as the matter of ordinance to be passed by both Houses. One, that Samuel Hartlib Esquire be appointed Superintendent General of an Offices of Address." Number one indicates that there were additional points, and there were. Points two through four asked that Hartlib be paid £200 annually for this work, that he could charge users a small fee to pay the wages of the clerks and registers, and that, quote, "A convenient great house be set aside for Hartlib to establish this office."
27:33 Speaker 02 The rest of the document goes over the particulars of how the office would be run and emphasizes the great benefit this would be to all. While the Office of Address was never formally established, Hartlib was granted an annual pension of £300. That number is sometimes reported as £200 or even £100, depending on the source, but as biographer George Turnbull explained in the 1920s, that payment was not really the portent of success that it seemed to be. He wrote, quote, "Ultimately Parliament officially recognized him and made arrangements for financial support, thereby raising Hartlib's hopes of the near approach of the millennium to the highest pitch.
28:17 Speaker 02 But they only flattered to deceive. The political atmosphere was too troubled to allow of the prosecution of such magnanimous designs. And as has already been indicated, the financial support promised was irregularly paid and finally ceased altogether." So this annual payment was more like lip service to placate Hartlib. They didn't even keep up with it. This must have become immensely frustrating for Samuel Hartlib as he believed the Office of Address would be the culmination of all of his life's work. It would enable him to fully manifest his goal of education for all. He'd already been doing this sort of work at his own personal expense, and he knew
29:01 Speaker 02 that people found it valuable, but it was simply not perceived as valuable enough for Parliament to put money and resources behind it. Just the same, with the money he was awarded when it was paid out, Hartlib did continue to expand his personal efforts at sending materials and correspondence throughout his wide network of associates. He continued to publish pamphlets, offering information on a variety of topics, although agricultural subjects were particularly frequent. We will talk about some of Hartlib's other writing and the nature of his connection to the Royal Society after we hear from some of the sponsors that keep the show going.
29:46 Speaker 02 Guess who's back in the house? The old gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert McMillan and Jess A. have in store this time around. They strut back down memory lane, navigating life, love, loss, and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kinds of insights that can only come from experience. So listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you. All sass, zero filter, and decades of perspective from four friends proving that queer joy
30:31 Speaker 02 only gets better with age on the podcast that never gets old. Listen to Silver Linings, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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31:28 Speaker 06 This new chicken nugget, reinvented based on real feedback, is made with 100% white meat chicken and is now better than ever. You gotta try the new Burger King Chicken Nuggets and sauces today.
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33:27 Speaker 02 One of the projects that Samuel Hartlib worked on for decades was something he called Ephemerides. This was an ongoing record, snippets really, of information about interesting developments in the realms of science and culture and things of note that were related to advancements in human knowledge. It was sort of like Peep's diary, but it didn't include any of Hartlib's own day to day doings, unless it was specifically about acquiring some of this information. He started writing Ephemerides in 1635 and it continued until 1659. For example, an entry from 1635 reads, "Borthwit knows a countryman of his who is about to make a collection out of English divinity
34:09 Speaker 02 books, and be it will confer with Darius about it, as also about his own work, which is a catechism of conscience." A 1650 note states, quote, "The 28th of February, Mr. Worsley sent me the receipt to be given to Mr. Usmasing concerning the spirit of tartar, which he got from Mr. Morian as a special present, who seriously affirmed unto him that it cost 500 gilders." Spirit of tartar was a reference to a distillate that was used in alchemical experiments, probably why it was so pricey.
34:43 Speaker 02 One of these entries from 1655 reads, "A woman in England, burning a smock, one of her women neighbors came bouncing at the door and entreated with all entreaties that she might come in, which, if she had obtained, she would have killed, but not prevailing, she went home." And was found dead. This is a true story related by Dr. Mayern to the king. These are the kind of entries in the Ephemerities.
35:08 Speaker 02 In more tame fare, in 1654, Hartlib published True and Ready Way to Learn the Latin Tongue, which was, of course, part of his effort to make more religious texts readable to a wider range of people. He published several dozen pamphlets and various short books throughout his life. In 1660, the Restoration reshaped England's government as Charles II became king and the monarchy was reestablished. As many of the decisions of the Long Parliament were rolled back, Hartlib officially lost his annual pension. That was also the same year that the Royal Society was founded, but Hartlib was not invited to be a member. Neither was
35:53 Speaker 02 John Dury. There were eight fellows elected in the original 1660 group, and there was some crossover among them with Hartlib's unofficial circle. You may have heard, if you've done any reading about the early years of the Royal Society, of the Invisible College, and that was another similar group to the Hartlib Circle, which included men who shared information with one another through correspondence and in-person meetings. George Turnbull and other scholars have written about this and just how much connection there was between Hartlib and the founding fellows of the Royal Society. Many of those men are certainly mentioned in his correspondence. Irish chemist Robert Boyle, who came up recently in our
36:39 Speaker 02 Modern Inventions That Aren't episode and who is on my shortlist, wrote to Hartlib on more than one occasion, and there's evidence of direct connection with others who were founding fellows and even more men who were invited to become fellows later.
36:54 Speaker 02 There were clearly a number of them in his correspondence network and quite a few of them sent information to him to be catalogued and shared. And in some cases, he consulted with them to get their take on various scientific matters. In some cases, Samuel Hartlib also acted as a sort of informational middleman, receiving information from one of these men with instructions to give it only to one specific person, another one of these men who became a fellow. He was clearly trusted and was considered knowledgeable about all manner of subjects. So for a lot of people, the question arises, why then was Hartlib not included in the Royal Society? Turnbull lays out some reasons. For one, Hartlib may have been seen as a trusted
37:39 Speaker 02 friend and a conveyor of information, but maybe not as an equal. Quote, "Hartlib seems to have gone little further with these men than to act as a receiver, seeker, and disseminator of information, including letters and writings about them and for them, and thereby to help them in their work." Turnbull also cites several instances where people mentioned that Hartlib appears to be very interested in the collection and dissemination of their scientific writing, but not in the writing itself. And in one case, there's a letter to Hartlib from German theologian Henry Oldenburg that states that, quote, "You care not much for the philosophical discourses
38:22 Speaker 02 of our clubs." So he wasn't directly involved in the activities of the group that eventually became the Royal Society, although he was clearly on friendly terms with its members. It also seems like Hartlib himself was not all that interested in the Royal Society. He saw it as a piece of a bigger vision that he had of a democratized knowledge utopia. Yeah, he wrote about this idea of a utopia many times. And the founding of a society like this seemed like, of course, that's the next step to get to my utopia. Following the loss of his occasional pension from Parliament, Hartley really had a very difficult time financially. He had never really had a lot of money.
39:05 Speaker 02 And what he did have, he largely funneled into this universal education project. Even before 1660, though, when that money was cut off, Hartlib was having a variety of health issues, including ulcers and possibly kidney stones. His son-in-law, a man named Claudius, was his doctor and worked to manage his various ailments, although it sounds like there really wasn't a lot of relief there. When he did get relief, it was quite temporary. In 1660, he had some sort of attack that left him with temporary limb paralysis, although he did recover. I was reading various descriptions of it, and it didn't quite sound like a stroke to me, although it could have been.
39:49 Speaker 02 But that incident scared him a lot, and he became constantly fearful that it was going to happen again and that he would be what he called useless. To make things worse, he also had a number of significant life stressors in the early 1660s. His wife, Mary, died in 1660. In 1661, he had some sort of problem with the business associate that had been storing his books, and he lost all the remaining copies of his book catalog. Then there was a fire at his house. He blamed a young member of the house staff for mishandling a stove for starting that fire. While the fire was caught before it could burn the house down, it did cause a lot of damage.
40:33 Speaker 02 Hartlib died on March 12, 1662, in his London home. Yeah, it is possible he had another one of those intense events that caused him paralysis, may or may not have been a stroke, etc. Were it not for a somewhat wild series of events, Hartlib may have faded almost entirely from history. His papers, which were extensive and included his years and years of correspondence, were purchased after his death by a man named William Brereton, a member of the Royal Society, who took them to his family's estate. After they were organized with the help even of some of Hartlib's associates, they were stored there at Brereton Hall. And then everybody kind of forgot them.
41:15 Speaker 02 The Brereton Estate stayed in the family until 1817, when it was sold to a merchant named John Howard. And then the house changed hands at least one more time, and possibly more than that, before George Turnbull, who we've referenced a couple of times, who wrote that 1920 biography we mentioned earlier, was contacted by a lawyer who said that he had a huge stash of Hartlib papers that had been brought to him by the current owner of the property, because they had found them, did not want them, but thought they might be useful. Turnbull, who was teaching at the University of Sheffield at that time, and this, by the way, happened after he had published his biography, had become the foremost Hartlib scholar that anybody could think of. So he was the obvious recipient of these papers.
42:00 Speaker 02 And he accepted them and he brought them home, where he worked with them until the end of his life in the 1960s. And at that point, Turnbull's wife gave the papers to the University of Sheffield. The school started a digitization project with the collection in the 1990s. And today, the entirety of the Hartlib papers is available online for free. And it is through these papers that modern historians have really learned and understood the true extent of Hartlib's influence and impact. And new analyses of these connections continue to be published today. As we said, that other biography just came out months ago. So, and that biography is also, in the spirit of Hartlib, available for free online, even though it's a full book.
42:45 Speaker 02 It is in our show notes, so take a look for it. It is the one that is written by Charles Webster. It is going to be one of the last ones in our show notes page. Yeah. And you can go, there's literally on the publisher's page. It's like, get book for free. And you just pop right there and get the whole thing as PDF. Nice. Perfect, perfect. So if you want to get the in-depth, real, real on Samuel Hartlib. Do it. There you go. You have some listener mail. I do, and this is how to title an email to make sure I read it. Boysenberry murder. Yeah.
43:22 Speaker 02 This is from our listener. I don't know if it's pronounced Andrea or Andrea either, who writes, I am a high school history teacher, so I just wanted to thank you for the continual outlet to learn and grow. I am very behind and just listened to the eponymous fruits episode. I grew up in Anaheim, California, very near Pearson Park that was mentioned as part of Rudy Boisen's development project for the city. The park also has a cactus garden named after him. We also have a Boisen Park in Anaheim named after him as well. I currently live in Fullerton that was mentioned as the city Mr. Boisen lived in. My house is over 110 years old, which is ancient for the West Coast. When I moved in, there was
44:03 Speaker 02 a strange growth of boysenberries in my backyard. When you mentioned Boisen had berries growing in a ditch in his yard, I immediately had an overwhelming feeling of guilt. What if my house was Mr. Boisen's house? I felt guilt because I intentionally killed those berries a few years back. They were riding my last nerve and pricked me one too many times. Anyways, I may have murdered a historic plant, and I will feel guilty until I'm able to find Mr. Boisen's exact address to vindicate myself. I plan on doing some research in the city library history room during my summer break. I've had my PhD in stuff you missed in history class, but since having twins, I have been continually behind. Listen, no shame in that game. I don't have twins and I can't keep up with anything. Nope.
44:48 Speaker 02 Andrea continues, only my second time emailing. In these frustrating times, I have appreciated the allusions to frustrations in politics because I have had to deactivate social media and stop listening to NPR as a form of self-preservation. The positive is I am catching up on your podcast much faster. Attached are some pictures of pie from a 314 pie day celebration. The moon pie reminded me of Georges Moliès, and I just thought you would enjoy the Liechtenstein pie. My pet tax is my dogs Barack Obama and my cane corso mix Rosie the Riveter, German Shepherd, and Loki, my 12-year-old black cat, wishing you positive vibes in these wild times. Um, I can't remember, and I did
45:30 Speaker 02 not go back and look at my outline for that one, but I think the original ditch got identified.
45:38 Speaker 02 Um, so I think you're probably safe because you would know. Uh huh. And those original, you know, the boys and farm that is still producing boys and berries today. Has plants in some cases that are uh from or directly related to those original plants. So I'm here to unburden you of your guilt. You're fine. Yay. You didn't kill anything historical. The history grows on in many places. Also, man, Loki looks like my kind of cat and Tracy's all black. No. But the facial expression is the real sell. That is a like. Yeah. For real with the pictures kind of face. Your pups are so sweet. I want to kiss those snoots and I love pictures of pie for sure. The moon pie is very beautiful and I love it.
46:23 Speaker 02 These are spectacular. So thank you, thank you, thank you, because this is a very fun email to read. Thank you again for being an educator. I feel like we cannot thank educators enough right now.
46:34 Speaker 02 Thank you for sharing your story and I'm glad that I can uh banish your guilt, I hope. I had this vision in my head of like a rosary made out of boys and berries. Oh, no. But that doesn't make any sense to anybody but me. Yeah. Anyway, thank you, thank you, thank you. If you would like to write to us and tell you about plants that may or may not be historical that you're worried you've killed and somehow destroyed history. Again, you haven't. You can do that at historypodcast at iHeartRadio.com. You can find the show notes for uh all of our episodes and this one, of course, included at missedinhistory.com.
47:17 Speaker 02 Like I said, that last openly available biography that was written by a really well researched scholar just last year is available online and it's the last entry in the show notes there. Just scroll on down and click right through. If you would like to subscribe to the podcast and you haven't done that yet, you could do that on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
47:45 Speaker 02 Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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48:42 Speaker 02 Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Long hours, work deadlines, family commitments. You give so much to everyone else. Isn't it time to invest in yourself? The University of Arizona Global Campus is built for working adults with flexible online degree programs designed to fit your life. Your previous education, training, and eligible experience may even help you earn college credit. At
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