Pod Insights Stuff You Missed in History Class Behind the Scenes Minis: Unplanned Sarah Week About this episode Tracy talks about the SYMHC calendar, and the controversial nature of Sarah Winnemucca's life story. She also discusses the different ways people have labeled Sara's autobiography.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
0:04 Tracy V. Wilson? Deanna Flores is a flag football star, a trailblazer, an entrepreneur, and now host of a new podcast.
0:10 Holly Frey? In Born to Become with Deanna Flores, she's sitting down with people from every corner of culture to find the whole person behind the public identity.
0:18 Tracy V. Wilson? Every episode, you'll get to know Deanna, her guests, and even yourself a little better. No lectures, no know-it-all hosts, just real people being real.
0:26 Holly Frey? Listen to Born to Become with Deanna Flores out now on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Created in partnership with Geico.
0:35 Tracy V. Wilson? Whether you're calling the wise women in your life, video calling your girlfriends across the country, or checking in on someone who always knows how to make you smile, staying connected matters. Those small conversations, shared laughs, and quick hellos are what keep relationships strong even when life gets busy. Some of the most life-giving conversations start with just a phone call. That's why AT&T guarantees the network you can rely on, so you can focus on the moments and people that matter most. That's the AT&T Guarantee. AT&T. Connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details. The Old Gays are back with Silver Linings, their lovable podcast from iHeart's Ruby
1:16 Tracy V. Wilson? Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare. Robert, Mick, Bill, and Jessa strut back down memory lane for season two, sharing lessons on life, love, and loss. These are the kind of insights that only come from experience. So tune in to Silver Linings with The Old Gays on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Workplace chaos. We've all been there. Deadlines are slipping, projects are piling up, and suddenly you realize the missing piece is the right person. That's when you say, this is a job for sponsored jobs. With Indeed Sponsored Jobs, your job post gets a boost so you can connect with quality candidates faster. In fact, sponsored jobs posted directly
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2:15 Holly Frey? A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio and partnership with Argenx, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.
2:58 Tracy V. Wilson? Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson. And I'm Holly Frey. We spent all week talking about Sarah Winamuka.
3:06 Tracy V. Wilson? That was not the plan.
3:09 Tracy V. Wilson? I was not expecting this to be a two-part episode. And as a one-part episode, it would have come out many weeks earlier than it is in fact coming out. Because for reasons, we had multiple consecutive weeks where one episode was already spoken for. And we like to have our two-parters both running together in the same week. And so, once I realized it was a two-part episode, it was like, well, this is not going to come out for several weeks later than I had planned, which is fine. It just means that we are recording this behind the scenes on October the 29th. And it is not going to come out for almost a month. Maybe exactly a month.
3:54 Tracy V. Wilson? That time will fly, so. Time, yeah, time will fly. We will be away. I think it's exactly, it's exactly a month before this will come out. For a week of that, you and I will be away.
4:07 Tracy V. Wilson? But then we will be back. And this episode will already be recorded well, well, well, in advance.
4:17 Tracy V. Wilson? I, uh, I said in this episode, I really admire a lot of things about Sarah Winnemucca, and I also understand how controversial she can be.
4:27 Holly Frey? Oh, yeah.
4:28 Tracy V. Wilson? And I also think a lot of people we have talked about, a lot of indigenous people from the, uh, the 19th century in the United States have, in one way or another, talked about assimilating with white culture, believing that was like the only way that they would be able to survive.
4:54 Holly Frey? Right.
4:55 Tracy V. Wilson? And my total outsider's perspective, I am not indigenous. I definitely am not Northern Paiute. I feel like I have seen more criticism of her today for some of these things than some of the other folks that we've talked about. Um, and I think some of that might be influenced by the fact that she worked directly with the army, which has not been the case with other folks that we have talked about. Um, but some of the stuff she tried to do was really the opposite of assimilation, like trying to start that school.
5:28 Holly Frey? Yeah.
5:28 Tracy V. Wilson? And I love the fact that when she was like, I don't have the money to build a school building, she was like, all right, we're building basically a brush arbor, and we will have school in the brush arbor, and that is, that will be fine. Her focus there, I also thought was the idea of, of having the students speak to her in their first language and her translating that into English as a way of learning English, I thought was really interesting.
5:53 Holly Frey? Yeah. Yeah, she, her whole life feels like she walked that line in a way that is not easy to really define her role in either world.
6:07 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, yeah. Which is one of the common themes of, uh...
6:13 Holly Frey? Yeah. Uh, which, you know, I, I understand the feelings on both sides of that equation.
6:20 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, yeah. I also, I think I've said before that, like, I am hard pressed to say what I would do in that situation. Like, if I were part of a culture that was being aggressively colonized.
6:33 Holly Frey? Yeah.
6:34 Tracy V. Wilson? What decisions I would make, what I would think was the best thing to do to try to protect everyone.
6:38 Holly Frey? Yeah, I have no idea.
6:40 Tracy V. Wilson? There's a lot of interesting literary and sort of ethnography study of her book. We talk in the episode about how some people describe it as an autobiography, some as an ethnography. I actually read one paper that described it as a captivity narrative. And usually, the term captivity narrative is used to describe white people's accounts of being held captive by an indigenous group.
7:13 Holly Frey? Right.
7:14 Tracy V. Wilson? But this person who had written this paper was talking about all the common themes about this idea that so often she and her people were being held captive. Another thing that jumped out to me is her, her discussion of her father's letter that he came back with after, after the Mexican-American War and how he called it his rag friend, which that just charmed me.
7:38 Holly Frey? That phrase is good.
7:41 Tracy V. Wilson? But her description of it as a talking paper, the idea that paper and books and writing talk comes up a lot in books by people who were not literate at the time of what they're relating, but they have either become literate later, or they have dictated an autobiography to somebody else. So it comes up a lot in things like slave narratives.
8:07 Holly Frey? Right.
8:08 Tracy V. Wilson? Descriptions of like the talking book that somebody had an encounter with. Because until that moment, like they, their conception of language had not been quite the same. And so the idea that like this piece of paper containing written language was something that spoke comes up in a lot of different contexts.
8:29 Speaker 03 First thought is like, wow, how are we going to do all this?
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10:37 Tracy V. Wilson? Deanna Flores, flag football star, trailblazer, broadcaster, and entrepreneur, knows what pressure feels like. She knows what it takes to step up in the moment, and she knows that even the biggest achievement is never the end of the story. In the new podcast, Born to Become with Deanna Flores, she's sitting down with people from every corner of culture, including sports, business, wellness, and entertainment, to find the whole person behind. Find the public identity.
11:01 Holly Frey? Whether she's talking to an athlete on the field, a founder heading into a pitch, or a musician before a show, the conversation starts with the official bio ends.
11:11 Tracy V. Wilson? Every episode, Deanna shares her own experiences, questions, and even doubts. Her guests learn from her, she learns from them, and you might pick up something along the way. No lectures, no know it all host, just real people being real.
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12:41 Tracy V. Wilson? Guess who's back in the house? The old gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with Veev Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert McMillan and Jesay have in store this time around. They strut back down memory lane, navigating life, love, loss, and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag. Brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kinds of insights that can only come from experience. So, listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you.
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13:46 Holly Frey? Here's what's the most relatable about Sarah Winnemucca to me, and it has nothing to do with any of this. It's that she has this narrative of her life and that there are huge gap years in it.
14:02 Tracy V. Wilson? There's a bunch of gaps.
14:03 Holly Frey? Like, for anyone who's ever been like, I am going to consistently journal. You will be like, whoops, I've, yeah, the last time I wrote in this journal was 11 months ago. I'll pick it back up again. I'll do better this time. And then, and I just kept thinking about us, even though I know this narrative is written in a different way and not necessarily as a journal. But I just, like, every time we would get to a point where it'd be like, then there's a gap of about a year before she did. I was like, oh, this is very relatable to me.
14:32 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. Yeah, it also, it made the writing process of this episode a challenge because people who have really studied her book have cross-referenced it with, like, other historical sources and have found that it aligns with things that are documented in other places. But it was also something that she was writing years or decades after things had happened. And so, sometimes her timeline is like a little bit off. Sometimes she will say a specific year, and it's not the exact right year. So, the, the things are happening in the right order, but the year that she says is not quite the same.
15:16 Tracy V. Wilson? And because my process of writing these episodes is that I have notes that I take from a lot of different sources and I put these notes all into a document and then I synthesized that into a new, original piece of writing. There were moments where I got so confused because I would have had a source that was like the actual verified year that something happened. And then I would have a piece from her autobiography that said a different year. And I would have a moment where I was like, wait, I thought she was in California now. Why is she in Nevada? And it's just like a year discrepancy between her writing and some other historical documentation.
15:59 Tracy V. Wilson? And getting the stuff to be back in the right order was a challenge. Another challenge was the reservations that were part of this episode. People called them a lot of different names at the time.
16:16 Holly Frey? Right.
16:17 Tracy V. Wilson? And some of them don't exist anymore. So there would be times that I was like, I'm not sure which reservation is being discussed right now.
16:25 Holly Frey? Mysteries, mysteries.
16:28 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. So the statue of her is at the Capitol in Washington DC. I have been to the Capitol. I don't think I have seen it in person, but the way that it is sculpted, her clothes, her garments are moving in a way that's really evocative to me.
16:51 Holly Frey? Yeah, I agree.
16:53 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
16:54 Holly Frey? It's also interesting in that the way it looks, it looks, it's like mixed media in terms of like the way her skin is represented. None of it is like true color, but it has like that bronzish cast. Whereas the rest of it looks like a duller tone.
17:15 Tracy V. Wilson? Hmm.
17:16 Holly Frey? Which is just interesting. It's an interesting choice.
17:18 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. I will note she does seem to have had. Terrible luck with men.
17:26 Holly Frey? Yeah.
17:27 Tracy V. Wilson? To our knowledge, she never had any children. But she did have several marriages and they all seemed to have been pretty short-lived and not particularly happy. Um, and a couple of the people who's writing about her, I read speculated about how she wound up in a series of marriages that were not great. But it's, it's all a hundred percent speculation. We have zero, uh,
17:54 Holly Frey? Right.
17:55 Tracy V. Wilson? Zero commentary from her about that. And in some cases, she didn't mention a marriage at all in her own writing. Unless I missed it, even though it chronologically had already happened, she doesn't talk about her father's death in her book.
18:13 Tracy V. Wilson? I, I went back to go try to figure that out because I felt like we, we say that her father died and then we don't really say anything further about it. Um, it did happen chronologically during the period that her book covers, but only barely.
18:30 Holly Frey? Right.
18:30 Tracy V. Wilson? And if she had tried to talk about it in detail, it would have kind of derailed the thing that she was really ending on, which was that the situation that the Northern Pai were in right now. And what had happened with the Secretary of the Interior and all of the unfulfilled promises around that. So it is possible that she did include something about his death that just didn't stick in my memory. But when I went back for it, I was like, no, I really don't see it here.
18:58 Holly Frey? Yeah.
18:59 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. So, uh, whatever's happening this weekend for folks, uh, I hope it's going really well for you. I can't remember exactly when this episode is coming out, except that it's the 29th of November, which I think will, I think today is the day after Thanksgiving. If people are listening to this episode on when it comes out, maybe.
19:22 Holly Frey? That sounds right.
19:23 Tracy V. Wilson? If so, you know, if this is a holiday you celebrate, I hope you are just having a great time with as many leftovers as you want.
19:31 Holly Frey? My gosh, put them all in the waffle iron.
19:34 Holly Frey? Every one of them.
19:35 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. So we'll be back with a Saturday classic tomorrow and something brand new on Monday.
19:47 Tracy V. Wilson? Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
20:02 Tracy V. Wilson? Deanna Flores is a flag football star, a trailblazer, an entrepreneur, and now host of a new podcast.
20:08 Holly Frey? In Born to Become with Deanna Flores, she's sitting down with people from every corner of culture to find the whole person behind the public identity.
20:17 Tracy V. Wilson? Every episode, you'll get to know Deanna, her guests, and even yourself a little better. No lectures, no know-it-all hosts, just real people being real.
20:24 Holly Frey? Listen to Born to Become with Deanna Flores, out now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Created in partnership with Geico.
20:33 Tracy V. Wilson? Whether you're calling the wise women in your life, video calling your girlfriends across the country, or checking in on someone who always knows how to make you smile, staying connected matters. Those small conversations, shared laughs, and quick hellos are what keep relationships strong even when life gets busy. Some of the most life-giving conversations start with just a phone call. That's why AT&T guarantees the network you can rely on, so you can focus on the moments and people that matter most. That's the AT&T Guarantee. AT&T, connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details.
21:09 Holly Frey? A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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22:40 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
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