Behind the Scenes Minis: Piece of Work

Holly and Tracy talk about how frequently the U. S. Post Office has stopped criminals, and about E. Virgil Neal using his intellect for shady business dealings. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Speaker 01

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• 0:33Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 1:08Holly Frey?

  We've all tumbled down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose, and it leaves us more anxious than informed. Our feeds are full of wellness trends, but how do we know what's real, what's exaggerated, and what's just wrong? Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association breaks it all down. Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends, not to cancel them, but to understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. So listen to Health vs. Hype wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:40Tracy V. Wilson?

  The Old Gays are back with Silver Linings, their lovable podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare. Robert, Mick, Bill, and Jessa strut back down memory lane for season two, sharing lessons on life, love, and loss. These are the kind of insights that only come from experience. So tune in to Silver Linings with The Old Gays on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Workplace chaos, we've all been there. Deadlines are slipping, projects are piling up, and suddenly you realize the missing piece is the right person. That's when you say, this is a job for sponsored jobs. With Indeed Sponsored Jobs, your job post gets a boost so you can connect with

• 2:22Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 2:45Holly Frey?

  Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.

• 2:56Holly Frey?

  Hello and happy Friday. I'm Holly Frey.

• 2:58Tracy V. Wilson?

  And I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

• 3:00Holly Frey?

  We talked about E. Virgil Neil all week.

• 3:03Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yes, we sure did.

• 3:07Holly Frey?

  I am intrigued beyond measure by E. Virgil Neil and the way he lived his life and all of his wild stuff.

• 3:16Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 3:17Holly Frey?

  I have so many thoughts. I have so many notes, so everybody come with me on journeys. First off, I have a cat redemption story.

• 3:27Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 3:28Holly Frey?

  On a previous behind the scenes, I talked about how my beautiful angel baby, Jezzy, seemed to hate one of my best friends.

• 3:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  Correct.

• 3:37Holly Frey?

  We figured out what happened. Well, I think we figured out what happened.

• 3:40Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 3:41Holly Frey?

  Because Jezzy and one of our other cats had to go in last, two weeks ago, for dental surgery. And when we went and picked them up, the other cat, who has very bad teeth, they are littermates. They were like, oh, my friend was like, she actually had much less in the way of problems than we expected. But Jezzy had one tooth that was really infected.

• 4:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, no.

• 4:05Holly Frey?

  Really deep into her jawline. And I think what must have happened is that she just wasn't feeling good, and our dear friend probably gave her a scritch along her jaw, and she just associated her with that. Because after she healed from her oral surgery, that friend came over and Jezzy climbed her like a monkey, like purring and like rubbing her face on her. So I think.

• 4:27Tracy V. Wilson?

  How funny.

• 4:28Holly Frey?

  She might not have hateful heart. She may have just felt really credy and had just been touched in a way that did not feel good.

• 4:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 4:36Holly Frey?

  My baby is my baby. It turns out she's a good girl. She's still a little bit of a rat, but I just wanted everyone to know she's not a monster. Okay, here's the takeaway of E. Virgil Neil, and really it's a takeaway that is also from the show I used to do Criminalia. Don't mess with the post office.

• 4:53Tracy V. Wilson?

  No.

• 4:53Holly Frey?

  They will come for you. They will come for you. We did a whole season on Criminalia about fraudsters. And in so many of those instances, the thing that finally took somebody down was like an inspector or the somebody from the post office, like the postmaster general, activating an inspector and being like, you have to go check this out. And that was how things all. I mean, bias for action. They will put together a case. They will get lawyers involved alongside, like,

• 5:21Holly Frey?

  don't mess with the post office is the rule.

• 5:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 5:25Holly Frey?

  Which I just kind of love.

• 5:28Holly Frey?

  Postal fraud will get you before anything else.

• 5:31Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, because there's a whole lot of other fraud that you know will happen. Nothing. Nothing. File your report with the FBI. What will happen? Nothing. Zero things will happen. Call your local law enforcement about the fraud. Zero things happening. I have personal experience with this. And

• 5:48Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 5:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  Nothing, nothing will be done.

• 5:51Holly Frey?

  Although I had a great check fraud story that maybe we'll wait for another day, but

• 5:56Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 5:56Holly Frey?

  There was, there was, it was a good one. It was a good one. There was justice, sort of. Never mess with the PO. Anyway, one of the other things that came up in some of the research on E. Virgil Neil. Again, I feel like his life story should be called, That's Not Substantiated, because

• 6:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:14Holly Frey?

  There's so much that can't

• 6:15Tracy V. Wilson?

  A lot.

• 6:16Holly Frey?

  Can't be substantiated. And so much of his life was built in a way that people could not substantiate things, that it makes it very hard. But one theory that had come up was that in his earlier days.

• 6:31Holly Frey?

  And like, people were like, okay, why did he keep setting these businesses up in like Syracuse? Was that he was helping his parents or his mother solo? His dad died at some point in there, and that is reported differently in different places. But that he may have been sticking close to her throughout all of it. And so like, some of these sort of cockamamie and in some ways nefarious businesses were kind of to generate money that he could give to her. But I don't, that seems like a very kind read on his situation.

• 7:04Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 7:05Holly Frey?

  But who knows, you know, even monsters will have pets. I found myself thinking about Robert Boyle during this episode.

• 7:12Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 7:13Holly Frey?

  And his idea of healing at a distance.

• 7:16Tracy V. Wilson?

  I, yes.

• 7:17Holly Frey?

  And I'm like, did they read his list, his, his wish list of things that science might do one day and go, people want that. We can tell when we have it, even though we don't have it. Look into the eyes of the photograph at a specific time.

• 7:32Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, when, I think it was character delineator.

• 7:36Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 7:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  And I was like, this sounds like some kind of woo. Like, this is like, character delineator sounds like a term for a psychic who is going to observe you and say what your character is. Like, that was sort of

• 7:53Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 7:53Tracy V. Wilson?

  where my brain took it.

• 7:55Holly Frey?

  Oh, yeah, it's like a very specific form of cold reading. Yeah, it's, it's wild. Here's the thing. Don't come for me. I have a weird, sort of reserved, don't come for me, I'm not saying something bad, but it's gonna sound initially. A weird sort of reserved admiration for E. Virgil Neil. Because he was clearly very smart. And he, you know, I mean, I read a lot of his banking and accounting stuff. And I'm like, this is a brilliant way to teach this stuff. Like, this makes so much sense. It really, like, clarifies, demystifies, distills into, like, easily communicable and actionable activities, like, how to do these things. And I'm like, this is terrific.

• 8:38Holly Frey?

  He had an incredible skill as a writer and as a communicator. And he obviously knew how to manage money. And I'm like, you're so darn smart. If you had only had scruples.

• 8:52Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 8:52Holly Frey?

  What could you have done?

• 8:57Holly Frey?

  Like that, it's like the, the formula I wrote at one point in my notes was banking plus writing minus conscience. Like that's the formula that makes E. Virgil Neil. Because I don't know how you go to sleep at night doing the things he was doing. But I do marvel at the way he was able to like shift things around very carefully. He was really the only person who understood the whole web. He, you know, like, he was clearly making a lot of moves that were astute through a certain lens. But again, just lacking morality or conscience.

• 9:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right, right.

• 9:36Holly Frey?

  So that's why I, I admire how smart he clearly was and how able he was to maneuver things to his own benefit. But I don't admire like what was motivating that or the outcome.

• 9:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right, right.

• 9:50Holly Frey?

  Yeah. Don't come for me. I don't think he was a good person. I just think he was smart. Um, yeah, fascinated, fascinated. Yeah.

• 10:03Speaker 04

  First thought is like, wow, how are we going to do all this?

• 10:06Tracy V. Wilson?

  Hey, everybody. It's Tracy from Stuff You Missed in History Class. That's Alan Goya, a planning engineer at AT&T. He's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, defining the fan's experience. And Alan's master plan made it all possible.

• 10:27Speaker 04

  It was good arrival, anything that was already built. And that takes quite a bit of people and different teams to all be on the same page.

• 10:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  That includes field services manager, Drexel Jones. His team made sure it all came together and held up on game day.

• 10:41Speaker 05

  Through what Alan's whole crew designed, we connected the event visitors to the world.

• 10:47Tracy V. Wilson?

  And after years of hard work and collaboration, it was opening night.

• 10:50Speaker 05

  To actually see the whole stadium light up and data is flowing is a beautiful thing.

• 10:55Speaker 04

  With the fan's experience, it's incredible. It gave me a lot of pride.

• 10:58Tracy V. Wilson?

  AT&T, connecting fans to what they love.

• 11:00Speaker 06

  Connecting changes everything. AT&T.

• 11:04Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 11:47Tracy V. Wilson?

  you can DIY trusted ADT home security in a snap. Head to ADT.com/BLU to build your system today. And to hear more about home protection and other grown-up topics, check out new episodes of Grown-Up Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 12:10Speaker 07

  This live check-in is brought to you by State Farm. Porque el bienestar de tu familia también merece protección. Okay, real talk. I'm about to become a dad again. And wow, it hits different the second time. Hi, I'm Wilmer Valderrama, and I've done, you know, I've done the red carpets, the long days on set and all that, but nothing prepares you for that moment when you're building a crib and you realize you're building a future. Familia is everything to me. The laughs, the chaos, the unconditional love, but also the pressure. La responsabilidad. If you're stepping into something big right now, starting a family, getting engaged, moving cities, you're not alone. Take one step at a time.

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• 13:31Holly Frey?

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. Tune in for season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenx. Hosted by public health and policy expert Dr. Martine Hackett, Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition pushes the conversation within the rare disease community forward. Featuring guests living with MG, CIDP, myositis, SMA, and other rare autoimmune conditions, each episode explores hope, progress, and connection. How does research create new opportunities? How do shared experiences help light the way forward? How do we best show up for each other?

• 14:16Holly Frey?

  Tune in to find out. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 14:33Holly Frey?

  Have you ever fallen into, I bet you haven't, this seems like something you would not do, but maybe, those phases of life where you love watching infomercials?

• 14:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  Um, I don't know if I would say that I loved watching them.

• 14:46Holly Frey?

  I love them. I find them fascinating.

• 14:48Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. There was a period of my life where I worked at a place that was going to try selling its products through an infomercial. So I did learn a lot about infomercials during that time.

• 15:03Holly Frey?

  Right.

• 15:03Tracy V. Wilson?

  And I don't actually remember whether that effort got off the ground or not. Like, I don't remember if that infomercial actually aired ever. But yeah.

• 15:12Holly Frey?

  I'm I have always been very fascinated because the here's the thing, there are even things that get sold in infomercials that are actually perfectly fine products. But the way that like the sales tactic of it. We have the answer.

• 15:27Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 15:27Holly Frey?

  Simplify your life.

• 15:29Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 15:29Holly Frey?

  Baby, it's all gonna get better. Just, just, just call and place your order. That's how old I am. You used to have to call and place your order. You know, go, go online, put in the thing. And I mean, those still exist in various forms now, just in like a more rapid fire pace on like Instagram ads, TikTok.

• 15:45Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 15:45Holly Frey?

  I'm fascinated by them and sometimes I get influenced by them. I'm not gonna lie, usually in very benign ways. Like I do need those shoes.

• 15:54Holly Frey?

  But I just, I find them. It's, it's wild because even as you are conscious of the cause and effect of how that marketing works. There will be moments where you're like, maybe I do need that.

• 16:08Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 16:08Holly Frey?

  And it's like, you have to pull yourself back and go, no, no, remember. These are all careful. It's like the same way that people talk about the food industry, studying things like mouth feel and craveability to make more craveable. It's the same thing. Like there is psychological analysis around what will get people to. You know, eventually buy into a product.

• 16:29Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right, right.

• 16:30Holly Frey?

  But even when you know that it is very easy to be drawn in and be like, that will solve that problem.

• 16:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, well, and to be incredibly clear, the company that I was working for was selling actual legitimate products. Like an actual legitimate products that had a very specific legal regulatory. Like oversight involved with them. But the infomercial idea was totally like trying to bring these products that were made for business use into a home. By saying this will solve all of your problems. You know how you have baked on gunk in your oven? This product, which was, you know, formulated for commercial ovens.

• 17:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  It's totally gonna solve all your problems.

• 17:16Holly Frey?

  Don't take away my flavoring gunk. I need the gunk.

• 17:20Tracy V. Wilson?

  And again, I have, I don't remember if that, like, did, did that ever actually become a thing? I don't remember.

• 17:26Holly Frey?

  No, no. And so, I mean, some of those things do, are perfectly legitimate products.

• 17:31Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 17:31Holly Frey?

  I'm fascinated by, I'm fascinated by the idea. I feel like in an alternate life, I must have worked in advertising because I am obsessed with commercials. Like, I have strong opinions about commercials. I will watch a whole show that's garbage, but if it's on like, network television, I will turn to Brian and talk about the problems with the ads. And I, I just, I love, I, I love the concept of advertising as a field of study. I mean, I don't, you know, love the concept of advertising, but I, I love analyzing it. I think it's really fascinating. You know, commercials are an interesting space in terms of like, film and television technology, because in some cases, that's where things get put,

• 18:14Holly Frey?

  that's where the envelope gets pushed in terms of what's possible first, because it's much easier to fund a 90 second piece of film than it is an actual show or movie. So from that point of view, I'm always fascinated by commercials. Anyway, I'm fascinated with advertising is the summation of that, which is probably part of why E. Virgil Neil is so,

• 18:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 18:34Holly Frey?

  just wildly engrossing for me.

• 18:38Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. Well, in his, like, newspaper ads that were basically advertorials.

• 18:44Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 18:44Tracy V. Wilson?

  I thought about that a lot because of, you know, my own history of having worked for a website and an editorial department in an era that there was, you know, the transition was being made from print media with, you know, things that looked like articles but said at the top, sponsored copy or something like that.

• 19:06Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 19:06Tracy V. Wilson?

  Trying to transfer that kind of mindset to the web.

• 19:13Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 19:13Tracy V. Wilson?

  And working in an editorial department that was highly opposed to doing anything like that. So that, like, those were the things that I was thinking about while.

• 19:24Tracy V. Wilson?

  Well, while talking about that part of his life story.

• 19:27Holly Frey?

  Yeah, I mean, I, um, it's such a weird thing. And I know most people hate ads in general. They hate advertising. I know we get complaints about advertising on our show sometimes. But like, and I, I have a very, it's stuck with me so hard. An interaction I had with a friend of mine, and it was in that time when a lot of network television was transitioning to having shows available online.

• 19:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:58Holly Frey?

  And this friend of mine was so irate that there were ads in the online version. And I was like, but there have to be. And she was like, what are you talking about? And she was just irate about it. And I was like, she's like, it should be free. And I'm like, okay, how do you think they pay the actors, writers, set directors, et cetera? Like, I know it's not fun always to watch an ad, but like, if you want to the show. Now, of course, the models are very different, but for network television particularly, it's like, if you want the show, you got to put up with that part unless you're subscribing to it in a different way.

• 20:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 20:35Holly Frey?

  The rules. That's just how it works. Um, it was fascinating to me. And I think the transition into online, there was a gap for people in like, understanding or accepting that initially that like, oh, the ads will follow us to there also.

• 20:51Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 20:52Holly Frey?

  When I think they were thinking, if I'm not watching it on my television with my remote control, surely it's a different thing. This must be cheaper to run. They don't need the ads for this. And it's like, no, they actually still do.

• 21:02Tracy V. Wilson?

  It was in, in parallel with advertisers not seeing value in advertising on the web yet. So for some things, there was, there's sort of, this happened with podcasting a lot. Like, there was sort of a window when most podcasts didn't have ads on them because advertisers weren't interested in advertising on podcasts and listeners got used to ad free podcasts. And those ad free podcasts, vast majority of them would have stopped existing because people would have run out of money.

• 21:35Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 21:36Tracy V. Wilson?

  Had the advertisers not eventually come.

• 21:39Holly Frey?

  Yeah, it's weird. It's a weird dance.

• 21:40Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 21:41Holly Frey?

  I get the dismay.

• 21:42Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 21:43Holly Frey?

  I'm, I'm not, I literally, right now, my brain is ticking through all of the, the copy and recent television ads I've seen that I hate. Nobody needs that. Nobody needs me to shout out their company for not liking their ads. Do you want me to tell you about the,

• 21:59Holly Frey?

  the, the memory that was jogged by our email about kids dressing up as historical figures?

• 22:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yes.

• 22:06Holly Frey?

  I mean, like, have you ever had, like, a memory just come and slap you in the face like that, that you haven't thought about in this, like, 45 years?

• 22:13Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 22:14Holly Frey?

  In seventh grade, my best friend and I, we had to do reports on historical figures in science. And my best friend and I, I don't know if we picked it, or we were assigned the Wright Brothers.

• 22:26Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 22:27Holly Frey?

  And we were like, great. And she is still a friend of mine. She's one of the smartest people I know. She probably did more of the, like, bookwork part of it. I don't know. We each picked one of the brothers and kind of went with it. But on the day of the presentation, I, I don't know if I just didn't communicate this or not, but I showed up in full historical costume.

• 22:45Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, no.

• 22:46Holly Frey?

  And she did not. And it was, it was just the most awkward, weird thing. Because it was like, I was, that's what I wore to school that day. It wasn't like I could change.

• 22:58Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 22:59Holly Frey?

  So there was no way to make it not look like I had done more work than her in that regard, even though she did just as much work as me, if not more, on the, like, writing and prep part. And it was just like, I, I, woo, the way that memory came back so hard.

• 23:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 23:15Holly Frey?

  So hard. But also hilarious. That wasn't a very historically accurate costume, but it was more historically accurate than most kids would do at that stage in life.

• 23:32Holly Frey?

  Listen, if this is your weekend coming up. I hope you only sew if you want to. I hope you only watch infomercials if you want to. I hope you remember that advertising is often designed to appeal to that part of your brain that has wants and needs and you don't get sucked into buying something you don't want. Or like me, you wake up in a fugue state and that's when the ordering happens. It's a problem. Where do these shoes come from? Oh, I did order those at 6:45 a.m. last Friday. It happens. Listen, it is what it is. But I hope that like you have a wonderful next couple of days. If you have to work, if you have obligations, maybe you have a family and you got to run people all over for all of their extracurricular activities

• 24:17Holly Frey?

  or whatever they've got going on. I still hope you can steal away some fun time for yourself. Maybe find a bathroom with a disco ball in it. Maybe make a bathroom with a disco ball in it. Just embrace joy wherever you find it. Be kind to one another. We will be right back here on Monday with new stuff. We will also be back here tomorrow with a classic episode.

• 24:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 24:56Tracy V. Wilson?

  You ever show up late to the game and your friends already saved your seat, your drink, even a plate? That's looking out. That's having your back. And that's exactly what AT&T does with the AT&T Guarantee. They know staying connected matters, so they actually guarantee a network that comes through when it counts. AT&T has connectivity you can depend on, or they'll proactively make it right, just like that friend who takes care of things before you even ask. AT&T. Connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details. This January, bare-knuckle fighting championship takes over the ocean. The inaugural Bruce Cruise sails from Miami to the Bahamas aboard the Norwegian

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• 26:30Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.