Pod Insights Stuff You Missed in History Class Behind the Scenes Minis: Journalism Carols About this episode Holly talks about the ways Joseph Medill could be both problematic and surprising. Tracy shares her additional thoughts on the book about caroling she used during research that wasn't always about caroling.
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1:38 Holly Frey? Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeart Radio.
1:48 Holly Frey? Hello and happy Friday. I'm Holly Frey. And I'm Tracy V. Wilson. We talked about Joseph Medill this week. We did. Throughout my research, I just kept muttering to myself, Joseph Medill is a pill. Because he was very bossy, not someone you could really reason with if he had made up his mind.
2:08 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
2:09 Holly Frey? But also super interesting. And like, one of those people we don't really talk about in terms of like, the people pulling the levers of power in the United States, but he sure did have a lot of influence.
2:21 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, he was not a name that rung a bell to me at all.
2:24 Holly Frey? There is a great story, apparently, when, about his friendship with Abe Lincoln.
2:31 Tracy V. Wilson? Uh huh.
2:32 Holly Frey? When Lincoln would come to the offices and visit. And apparently, Lincoln had gotten there to the Tribune offices when Medill was not in his office. He was doing something. And when he came back to his office, he found Mr. Lincoln sitting, reading the paper with his feet up on the desk, his long legs extended. And according to many staffers, they heard him yell, get your damn feet off my desk, Abe, which I just love somebody yelling that at Abraham Lincoln.
3:00 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
3:00 Holly Frey? It's pretty fascinating. I also really, I mean, I don't, we don't know if it's true. We only have Medill's account. But I really liked his account of like Abe Lincoln being like, I'm doing what you wanted, so maybe, don't be a sucker and do what has to be done here.
3:16 Tracy V. Wilson? Right.
3:16 Holly Frey? It sounds somewhat unlike Abe Lincoln.
3:19 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
3:20 Holly Frey? But also, I love it. And it was enough that it cowed Medill. And he wanted to admit as much, so I find that fascinating. Fascinating. He also, we didn't, I didn't get into it because eventually I had to cut some stuff for time, but like the, the Douglas Lincoln debates.
3:40 Tracy V. Wilson? Oh, yeah.
3:41 Holly Frey? Medill followed that whole thing. Like, he literally was the one newspaper man that was printing it every day that there was any news about it. Like, following the whole thing around. Just like.
3:55 Holly Frey? Followed it like the Grateful Dead and reported every second of everything that was going on, which is another way that he supported Lincoln in the paper.
4:04 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. So this outline characterized him in his newspaper journalism career as having a bias. And I was curious about whether, whether like it was a bias or whether, whether it was more like an informed perspective.
4:24 Holly Frey? I think he did have an informed perspective. However, because he was using his paper contacts to communicate back and forth with Abraham Lincoln about how things should be presented. And maybe you want to know about this before it hits this other newspaper. Like to me, that's the bias part, right?
4:45 Tracy V. Wilson? That for sure.
4:46 Holly Frey? I am helping you every way I can.
4:48 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, there is a journalistic integrity line that that crosses for sure.
4:53 Holly Frey? Yeah. And to be fair, all of the rules of journalistic integrity that we think about today weren't all necessarily in place yet at this point.
5:01 Tracy V. Wilson? Right, right.
5:02 Holly Frey? But there's a reason they got put in place and some of it is stuff like this.
5:06 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. Well, and today, like we have been living through an approach to journalism that is purportedly unbiased and taking a neutral stance on topics. But sometimes there's not an actual, a neutral stance on that issue.
5:31 Holly Frey? Right.
5:31 Tracy V. Wilson? And so having like just become deeply exasperated with reporting that makes it seem like there are two equivalent sides to issues that don't have equivalent sides in that way. I'm like,
5:46 Holly Frey? Right.
5:47 Tracy V. Wilson? I kind of would prefer, like, you know, if the paper's position is slavery is bad and should be abolished, that like the reporting points to that.
6:01 Holly Frey? Yeah.
6:02 Tracy V. Wilson? Say it straightforwardly and, you know, says it directly.
6:07 Tracy V. Wilson? Because yeah, boy, I have various frustrations with the worlds of journalism and reporting.
6:13 Holly Frey? Oh, yeah.
6:14 Tracy V. Wilson? Of my life.
6:14 Holly Frey? I mean, that was, that was part of why I found this interesting. The other thing, too, is that if you read his editorials, they are not like, I am conveying information to you. It is like, here is the action you need to take.
6:28 Tracy V. Wilson? Okay.
6:29 Holly Frey? You know what I mean?
6:30 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, yeah.
6:31 Holly Frey? Definitely not like reporting so much as shaping the way people perceive things.
6:38 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, yeah.
6:39 Holly Frey? I mean, granted, like, I'm on board with his anti-slavery agenda, less so with his anti-union stuff late in the game.
6:46 Tracy V. Wilson? Right. That so, that made me laugh a little bit because he reminds me of my grandfather, who was a union typesetter and eventually got promoted into management. And he had been a union man. He raised my, my dad and my aunt to be like, the union is why we have what we have. And then when he moved into management and actually had to deal with the union from the other side,
7:21 Tracy V. Wilson? he got a little, a little more frustrated on that score. And so this reminded me of that in terms of like how he had gone from being a typesetter and from having like a pretty progressive perspective.
7:33 Holly Frey? Yeah.
7:33 Tracy V. Wilson? Uh, leading into the Civil War to being a more anti-union person, having managed.
7:38 Holly Frey? An entire city.
7:40 Tracy V. Wilson? And a whole city, yeah, being the mayor.
7:42 Holly Frey? Yeah.
7:43 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
7:44 Holly Frey? His time as mayor is so fascinating. One of the things that started happening even before he was elected was that because he was writing these really like hopeful editorials in the paper of like, hey, everybody cheer up, keep your heads up, we're all going to work together to rebuild. And those got reprinted all over the world, people from all over the world, like. Royal Houses in Europe and other places started sending money directly to him.
8:14 Tracy V. Wilson? Oh, wow.
8:15 Holly Frey? And what he would do whenever he got it was he would give the money to his wife Kitty, and she got to kind of manage the way that money was distributed. So she would basically like handle the philanthropic part of disbursement and be like, hey, I've looked at these four hospitals. This one is suffering the most. I'm going to give them the biggest chunk. Like, she kind of did all of that. But there's not a lot of documentation in how she did it, at least that I could find easily. But I would be curious how she made those decisions.
8:46 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
8:47 Holly Frey? It's kind of interesting that he just became, well, before he was mayor, like, when he was literally just writing his stuff in those, that, like, month in between the fire and the thing, people were already just sending chunks of money to him, like, thousands at a time. And he would be like, okay. So fascinating. He also, I didn't, I didn't get into it because I feel like we talk about it so much. People will think it is my special project. He was really instrumental in getting the World's Columbian Exposition to Chicago in 1893.
9:22 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, yeah.
9:23 Holly Frey? One of the things he worked on in his later life, which is just an interesting, interesting thing. And it makes sense. He was very proud of what he had accomplished in terms of rebuilding the city, even if
9:32 Tracy V. Wilson? Right.
9:33 Holly Frey? people started getting frustrated with the way he was filling positions.
9:36 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
9:38 Holly Frey? Yeah, and they did, they did pass a law about not using pine for new structures.
9:43 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
9:44 Holly Frey? Which probably saved them a lot of trouble down the road.
9:47 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
9:48 Holly Frey? I mean, certainly it did.
9:49 Tracy V. Wilson? A place that I used to live has been having like an, an internal city dispute involving people being upset that they felt like a business was being unfairly penalized by the city over building codes. And then when like the whole, the, the whole, like, the documentation of it was released, and it was like, no, really, they were building a bunch of stuff out of wood in the densely constructed downtown without permits.
10:20 Tracy V. Wilson? When wood cannot be used for those structures downtown because of the flammability.
10:26 Holly Frey? Yeah.
10:27 Tracy V. Wilson? Like, this kind of reminded me about of that with like, how much of Chicago was made out of wood at the time and how much that contributed to the fire.
10:35 Holly Frey? Yeah, there was early on, I think even before he was elected, as people were discussing these problems in Chicago, like, hey, this is a problem, though, because that's the most economical thing we can possibly get a hold of.
10:51 Tracy V. Wilson? And the fastest a lot of the time.
10:53 Holly Frey? Yeah, and we, we read a lot of his inauguration speech, but we didn't read half of, I mean, it was so long. But one of the things he does is he does this breakdown because he clearly did his, his research on it or talked to experts because he was like, here's how fast pine rots and how often you will have to replace parts of pine. Even if it doesn't catch on fire, we are stupid to use this and it's actually more expensive if you amortize out the replacements you have to make over, you know, a 20-year period than if you just invest in a better building material right out of the gate. And I was like, man, he has very strong feelings about this. Which were correct and great.
11:35 Holly Frey? And I do like that he basically was like, okay, people, here's the real rail. Here's how much money we owe people. Here's how much we have gotten. Here's the gap. Here's how I'm gonna fill that gap. And he was really quite direct. There was no hemming and hawing of like, I mean, when I say he line item to that thing, he literally was like, this is how much it costs to run these four government offices. This is how, like, just anybody that was a numbers nerd was probably losing their minds with glee during that speech. Because it was like a spreadsheet being read aloud.
12:11 Holly Frey? So, yeah, problematic in a number of ways. Like I said, some of his very early writing about teaching, I immediately ran across some very slurry, not cool language. And I was like, well, we're not gonna quote this, I'll just say he didn't like teaching. But, but also incredibly powerful and quite smart.
12:33 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
12:34 Holly Frey? If he didn't always use his smarts in the way we might have liked.
12:37 Tracy V. Wilson? Sure.
12:39 Holly Frey? Ah, also, don't adopt raccoons. Don't try to adopt raccoons. That was a good listener mail. It made me wonder, for a moment, I was like, I wonder if this person is talking about the shelter that I adopted my cats from, because they got a brand-new, beautiful facility not that long ago. And then I was like, mm, no, you gotta be buzzed in. So if somebody was just standing in the lobby, that couldn't be the same. Right, right.
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13:36 Speaker 06 This live check-in is brought to you by State Farm. Porque él viene de la familia, también merece protección. Okay, real talk. I'm about to become a dad again. And wow, it hits different the second time. Hi, I'm Wilmer Valderrama, and I've done, you know, I've done the red carpets, the long days on set and all that, but nothing prepares you for that moment when you're building a crib and you realize you're building a future. Familia is everything to me. The laughs, the chaos, the unconditional love, but also the pressure, la responsabilidad. If you're stepping into something big right now, starting a family, getting engaged, moving cities, you're not alone. Take one
14:17 Speaker 06 step at a time. Why breathe, be present, and lean into the people. They've got your back. It is fruta. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
14:27 Holly Frey? A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. Tune in for season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenx. Hosted by public health and policy expert Dr. Martine Hackett, Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition pushes the conversation within the rare disease community forward. Featuring guests living with MG, CIDP, Myositis, SMA, and other rare autoimmune conditions. Each episode explores hope, progress, and connection. How does research create new opportunities? How do shared experiences help light the way forward? How do we best show up for each other?
15:12 Holly Frey? Tune in to find out. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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15:59 Tracy V. Wilson? Talked about Christmas carols this week.
16:01 Holly Frey? We sure did.
16:02 Tracy V. Wilson? Talked about William Sands. When we finally got to William Sands, we talked about the introduction to his book of Christmas carols that was like 40% of the length of the book. And then, within that introduction, there was a 60 page gap in which carols were not mentioned. Something that cracked me up. A couple of things cracked me up about that. One is that that introduction ends with him saying, quote, "But it is time to close this introduction, which has imperceptibly almost extended to a length that the subject will not sanction."
16:41 Tracy V. Wilson? And I was like, yes, William Sands, the subject will not sanction it, because a lot of this introduction is not actually about the subject.
16:49 Holly Frey? You're like, perceptible, in point of fact.
16:52 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. Well, and I mean, some of the things that he was writing about are things that are part of the context and are tangentially related, or, you know, they're part of the historical precursor of the Christmas caroling. But some of it just felt like wandering digression. Around Christmas and I was like, I, I, I need to get back to the part that's relevant. I'm not going to be able to really put my attention to all of this that's not. And so when I found the little margin note that some last, some past person had made where they put a little star and wrote the, the word carols, I thought that was very funny. And then,
17:29 Tracy V. Wilson? pretty consistently for a lot of the rest of the book, the things that I found useful and noteworthy and wanting to mention in the episode, were also things that this past person with their pencil had written in the book.
17:44 Holly Frey? Maybe it's a future person. Maybe you time traveled. And you were like, I'm really going to need this help because this is a really sucky.
17:56 Tracy V. Wilson? Wow. Then that at the, the one day we finally invent that time machine that we talk about on the show from time to time.
18:04 Holly Frey? I feel like the time machine that we one day build is going to be like the JWST or the very large array, where we'll have to submit our proposals for usage just to get on like the waitlist.
18:16 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
18:20 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. Well, and a lot of the things that we've talked about using a time machine for on the show have been not the best use of the time machine. And I remember many years ago, somebody pointing it out, either in an email or social media, I don't remember. But we had talked about wanting to go back in time to prevent people from trampling all over the crime scene. And somebody was like, did you think about maybe go back, going back in time to prevent the, the murder from happening?
18:49 Holly Frey? No, no.
18:51 Tracy V. Wilson? It's like, well, yeah, now that you mention it, I suppose that would be better than just stopping the crime scene destruction. But no, that was not really what I had been thinking about.
19:02 Holly Frey? I just want to go back and tell the Loomier brothers, I will hang on to this forever, who thought that film was not ever going to be a money-making thing. I literally still want to go back and go Rogue One made a billion dollars and then just vanish into thin air.
19:18 Tracy V. Wilson? With a B, so many dollars. By total coincidence, while I was working on this, an algorithm fed me a video. I did not know the name of whose video this was. Maybe I should go look it up, but they had, it was an a cappella performance of a song about the song, "God Rest You Merry Gentlemen", and where in that phrase, the comma should go. And I found it so funny. I'm just, I'm gonna have to look at my phone because I, I feel that, you know, people, people would appreciate this. Ramsey's The Pigeon is the name of the
19:59 Tracy V. Wilson? account, and I have no idea of anything about this account other than that there is a song that's "God Rest You Merry Gentlemen" that is a song about where in the song title, the comma should go and how the position of that comma changes the title's meaning. And I found it so funny, which is always great when a random thing on the internet is so funny.
20:26 Holly Frey? Yes, yes.
20:29 Tracy V. Wilson? I would like more of that on the internet. I remember when it felt like most of the internet was random things that were so funny.
20:35 Holly Frey? Those were the days.
20:36 Tracy V. Wilson? Instead of AI slop and hate speech.
20:40 Holly Frey? Those were the days. My favorite recent one, since we're on this brief tangent, is a post from Happy Camper Tattoos on Instagram.
20:48 Tracy V. Wilson? Okay.
20:48 Holly Frey? And it says, "Girl Dinner", and it's a praying mantis holding her mate's head. And it's very cute, and it's done in like the old school, kind of slightly cartoony tattoo style. And I thought it was the most brilliant thing I'd ever seen. And it made me laugh literally so hard I was crying, and I sent it to everybody I knew.
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21:36 Speaker 06 This live check-in is brought to you by State Farm. Porque el bienestar de tu familia también merece protección. Okay, real talk. I'm about to become a dad again. And wow, it hits different the second time. Hi, I'm Wilmer Valderrama and I've done, you know, I've done the red carpets, the long days on set and all that, but nothing prepares you for that moment when you're building a crib and you realize you're building a future. Familia is everything to me. The laughs, the chaos, the unconditional love, but also the pressure. La responsabilidad. If you're stepping into something big right now, starting a family, getting engaged, moving cities, you're not alone. Take one step at a time.
22:19 Speaker 06 Why breathe, be present, and lean into the people that got your back. Y disfruta. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
22:28 Holly Frey? A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. Tune in for season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenx. Hosted by public health and policy expert Dr. Martine Hackett, Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition pushes the conversation within the rare disease community forward. Featuring guests living with MG, CIDP, myositis, SMA, and other rare autoimmune conditions, each episode explores hope, progress, and connection. How does research create new opportunities? How do shared experiences help light the way forward? How do we best show up for each other?
23:12 Holly Frey? Tune in to find out. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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23:59 Holly Frey? Christmas carols.
24:01 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
24:02 Holly Frey? As is often the case with anything we talk about, do you know what this episode made me think of?
24:07 Tracy V. Wilson? Star Wars.
24:08 Holly Frey? Bob's Burgers, you're close.
24:09 Tracy V. Wilson? Okay.
24:10 Holly Frey? There's a great, they always have great Christmas episodes, some of which make me cry and cry. But one is very funny where the B-plot is Linda and the kids and their handyman Teddy walking around this very rich neighborhood, Christmas caroling in the hopes that someone will give them hot cocoa. And there's one house that's known as the murder house. And then it turns out that really the guy that lives there is just bad at decorating and he comes out and sings in a beautiful voice, "Ad esti fidelis." And then they're all friends, but it's so lovely and that's all I could think of the whole time.
24:46 Tracy V. Wilson? This episode made me think about being raised as a kid and being raised Methodist as a kid. And I don't know how the Methodist Church, well, the Methodist Church had a schism. So I super don't know what's going on with Methodist Church leadership now, except the general sides of the schism. But when I was a kid, we were United Methodist. We went to United Methodist Church and at that time, the United Methodist Church moved the preachers around every few years. So you would get a new preacher periodically. And the types of services that would happen for Christmas.
25:26 Tracy V. Wilson? Could change a lot when there was a different preacher, like a different preacher could come to the church and sort of have a different idea of what would be good to do for Christmas. And so there were years that we had either on Christmas Eve or sometime during Advent, we would have like a service of lessons and carols. And there were a lot of Christmas carols that were sung as part of church services during Advent. And sometimes there would be like a Christmas Eve specific service that might or might not specifically be lessons and carols, but there would often be Christmas carols sung. And I don't know,
26:09 Tracy V. Wilson? it just sort of made me think about the many different iterations of Christmas observances that there were at church when I was a kid.
26:19 Holly Frey? Yeah.
26:19 Tracy V. Wilson? And how also sometimes the youth group would go caroling.
26:26 Tracy V. Wilson? I don't think, I don't remember if I actually did that very much, but that was like a group activity that would happen would be going caroling house to house, which we did not, like, that was not something that happened near where I live because we lived out in the country on a busy highway. But, you know, the church was located in a town and so there would be caroling through the neighborhoods around the church, often neighborhoods that a lot of members of the church lived in.
26:56 Holly Frey? Yeah, I don't know that I've ever gone caroling. If I did, it was probably part of like some theater program thing.
27:05 Tracy V. Wilson? Oh, sure. Sure.
27:07 Holly Frey? Yeah, I don't, I don't recall ever caroling just for funsies.
27:12 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. I think I remember one time going caroling at a nursing home.
27:17 Holly Frey? Oh, yeah.
27:17 Tracy V. Wilson? Uh, like room to room at the nursing home. Somehow what you just said reminded me of the year that the summer theater that I did in the summers when I was a kid, that we did Scrooge, which was. Funny because it was July.
27:33 Holly Frey? I was gonna say in the summer.
27:36 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, it was. And we did restage that one at Christmas time, if I recall correctly. And then my high school tried to do Scrooge and it went not great. The, the theater program was kind of floundering at my high school by the time I got there. And the thing that I remember from the high school production of Scrooge was that one of the early scenes, like the early crowd scenes around the, the town, the town being London, there was a bottle that either someone dropped or it got put down on the stage.
28:17 Tracy V. Wilson? A bottle was on the stage that was not supposed to be there, that was like a prop. And rather than anyone having the presence of mind to create a reason to strike this prop from the stage, everyone just danced around it.
28:34 Holly Frey? Love it.
28:35 Tracy V. Wilson? Production numbers. I find this now hilarious, but boy, was our theater teacher not pleased with us for doing that.
28:46 Holly Frey? Well.
28:47 Tracy V. Wilson? Anyway.
28:48 Holly Frey? I have good news, theater teacher. Now it's only thought of with love.
28:52 Tracy V. Wilson? Well. She is no longer among the living, so hopefully she did not carry any resentments about our poor performance of Scrooge in the year 1993.
29:07 Holly Frey? Maybe, maybe.
29:08 Tracy V. Wilson? To the beyond with her. Anyway, so the Carol's episode came out on Christmas Eve. Now it is Boxing Day, the day this behind the scenes is coming out. Whatever is going on with this season of the year, whatever it is that you are celebrating or not celebrating, I hope that it is just all going as well as possible. I, I, it has been.
29:33 Tracy V. Wilson? A rough year.
29:34 Holly Frey? Yeah.
29:35 Tracy V. Wilson? And I know a lot of folks need a break. And so if you need a break, I hope you're able to get one before the new year turns over. It will be a whole new year by the time our next behind the scenes comes out. So Happy New Year, a little in advance to everyone.
29:55 Holly Frey? Yeah. I hope everybody has the means and the ability to eat something delicious, feast, and also remember to take care of other people that need the means.
30:08 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
30:09 Holly Frey? And fingers crossed for 2026.
30:12 Tracy V. Wilson? It's the year that's coming. It sure is.
30:16 Holly Frey? I almost said 2027. I almost blipped us right by that biz.
30:19 Tracy V. Wilson? That'd be funny. Uh, we'll be back with the Saturday classic tomorrow. We will have something brand new on Monday.
30:33 Tracy V. Wilson? Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
30:48 Holly Frey? A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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32:28 Speaker 09 She's been thinking about this sleepover all week, but I think about her food allergies all the time. Fortunately, her doctor prescribed Zolair, omalizumab. It's proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens.
32:41 Speaker 10 Zolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people one year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Zolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Zolair. Zolair may cause a severe, life-threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Zolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. Zolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection, or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see zolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Zolair.
33:24 Speaker 10 This is an advertisement for Zolair paid for by Genentech and Novartis.
33:27 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
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