Behind the Scenes Minis: Complicated Ely

Tracy relays how Sarah Winnemucca's story inspired this week's episodes, though they were recorded about a month apart, and also how Ely S. Parker is one of the most complicated figures she has ever written about. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Tracy V. Wilson?

  Deanna Flores is a flag football star, a trailblazer, an entrepreneur, and now host of a new podcast.

• 0:10Holly Frey?

  In Born to Become with Deanna Flores, she's sitting down with people from every corner of culture to find the whole person behind the public identity.

• 0:18Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 0:26Holly Frey?

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• 1:19Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 2:13Holly Frey?

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.

• 2:56Tracy V. Wilson?

  Hello and happy Friday. I am Tracy V. Wilson.

• 2:59Holly Frey?

  And I'm Holly Frey.

• 3:01Tracy V. Wilson?

  This week, uh, number one, just so listeners know, we're having to record this completely over because of a technical problem. Uh, hopefully just the behind the scenes, not the actual episodes. Those sounded okay, fingers crossed. But in addition to that,

• 3:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  because of our travel schedule and also how we like to have two-part episodes run the same week without other stuff in between them, um, we are recording this episode four weeks after the one that we recorded on Sarah Winnemucca, but they are only coming out like two weeks apart.

• 3:38Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 3:39Tracy V. Wilson?

  So it's gonna feel kind of like there's a theme for a period of time in the podcast that, uh, in terms of when we actually recorded things, um, farther apart. Also, researching Sarah Winnemucca, uh, and the brief reference to the peace policy in that episode was definitely what led me to wanting to talk about Elias Parker, who, uh, one of the most complicated people I have needed to write an episode about.

• 4:10Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 4:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  Because we've talked about a lot of Indigenous people in the 19th century who have, to a greater or lesser degree,

• 4:20Tracy V. Wilson?

  Felt like they and their people needed to assimilate with white culture in order to survive. And I am in no way judging any person who is a descendant of any of those people and is like, living with the ramifications of those decisions. I feel like it's impossible to know which decisions would have been the best ones in those contexts. But this is the person who has had the most powerful and the most power and the most influence in terms of the impact of those decisions.

• 4:54Holly Frey?

  Right.

• 4:54Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right. We've talked about a lot of people who have either themselves wanted to assimilate with white culture, or they wanted their children or their people to assimilate and their decisions were impacting themselves and their families and maybe also their specific tribe or nation. And then Elyse Parker became the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and was making these policies related to all of the indigenous people in the United States. And, you know, a lot of those decisions continuing to have impact and influence today.

• 5:32Holly Frey?

  Yeah. We didn't refer back to it really in the episode, but we mentioned at the top of the episode that his mother had had this vision of him being this person who succeeded in both worlds and, you know, was a... And I always wonder how much that was informing his decisions, whether consciously or subconsciously, right? I'll Star Wars it up and make it about how Anakin is told he's the chosen one and that ultimately like causes problems. And whether or not this is a case of like, all of that weight being put on him.

• 6:12Holly Frey?

  Inherently would have probably impacted his decisions, whether he realized it or not.

• 6:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, yeah. At the end of the episode, we talked about this documentary from 1999, which obviously now is 25 years ago.

• 6:26Holly Frey?

  What? Shush. No, it isn't. It's six years ago.

• 6:29Tracy V. Wilson?

  So weird. And that it was shown on PBS. It was still available for me to watch on one of the PBS websites. But they talked to a number of indigenous historians and scholars and leaders as part of that documentary. And a lot of them really talked about his personal ambition and how they felt like his personal ambition had led him to make decisions that were a betrayal of his people and his roots. And that reminded me a little bit of something we talked about with Sarah Winamaka, about how her people, a big focus

• 7:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  was everyone making decisions collaboratively. And so the fact that she went and did things on her own and made decisions on her own was really controversial. And I, I see some parallels there to E. Lee Parker, clearly having a desire to, you know, based on his own writing and things that he said that himself, like having a desire to really excel at things like the English language and really wanting to get into positions of power. And then how that was viewed among the Seneca and among the Seneca who were being directly impacted by decisions that he was making, like with Ulysses Grant and in Washington

• 7:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  and all of that. Truly a remarkable life, though. Like even if we stopped before becoming Commissioner of Indian Affairs, the process of like going through an education and becoming an engineer and doing the engineering work that he did, and then being the person who wrote out the surrender terms at Appomattox during the Civil War, all of those things are fascinating to me. He's actually been depicted. And a couple of movies related to the Civil War. I don't remember the names of either of them, but in one of them, he doesn't have any lines. And in the other one, he has like

• 8:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  one line, which really does not in any way encapsulate his very long relationship with Grant and how close the two of them were and how involved they were in one another's work.

• 8:51Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 8:52Tracy V. Wilson?

  So, yes, whatever's happening on your weekend, I hope that it is as great as it could possibly be. We will be back with a Saturday classic tomorrow and we will have a brand new episode on Monday.

• 9:12Tracy V. Wilson?

  Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 9:27Tracy V. Wilson?

  Deanna Flores is a flag football star, a trailblazer, an entrepreneur, and now host of a new podcast.

• 9:33Holly Frey?

  In Born to Become with Deanna Flores, she's sitting down with people from every corner of culture to find the whole person behind the public identity.

• 9:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  Every episode, you'll get to know Deanna, her guests, and even yourself a little better. No lectures, no know-it-all hosts, just real people being real.

• 9:49Holly Frey?

  Listen to Born to Become with Deanna Flores, out now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Created in partnership with Geico. A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 10:29Tracy V. Wilson?

  You ever show up late to the game and your friends already saved your Your drink, even a plate, that's looking out. That's having your back. And that's exactly what AT&T does with the AT&T Guarantee. They know staying connected matters, so they actually guarantee a network that comes through when it counts. AT&T has connectivity you can depend on, or they'll proactively make it right, just like that friend who takes care of things before you even ask. AT&T: Connecting Changes Everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details. Long hours, work deadlines, family commitments, you give so much to everyone else, isn't it time to invest in yourself? The University of Arizona Global Campus is built for working adults with flexible

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• 12:03Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.