Behind the Scenes Minis: Busses and Overpasses

Holly and Tracy unpack the accusation that Robert Moses purposely built overpass bridges too low for busses to drive under them as a way to keep Black New Yorkers away from Jones Beach. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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  We've all tumbled down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose, and it leaves us more anxious than informed. Our feeds are full of wellness trends, but how do we know what's real, what's exaggerated, and what's just wrong? Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association breaks it all down. Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends, not to cancel them, but to understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. So listen to Health vs. Hype wherever you get your podcasts.

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  The Old Gays are back with Silver Linings, their lovable podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare. Robert, Mick, Bill, and Jessa strut back down memory lane for season two, sharing lessons on life, love, and loss. These are the kind of insights that only come from experience. So tune into Silver Linings with The Old Gays on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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• 3:13Holly Frey?

  Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeart Radio.

• 3:24Holly Frey?

  Hello and happy Friday. I'm Holly Frey.

• 3:26Tracy V. Wilson?

  And I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

• 3:27Holly Frey?

  We've talked about Robert Moses all dang week.

• 3:30Tracy V. Wilson?

  The whole week long.

• 3:31Holly Frey?

  We sure did. I have so many things to talk about.

• 3:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 3:35Holly Frey?

  One, he was really good at reports. I mean, there was almost part of me where I'm looking at that almost 400-page report, it is more than 400 pages, thinking like, did you just intend to bury people in such a big report that they would not see what you had written, and they would just go, yes, clearly you know? I don't know. He was, I will say, a very good writer. I noticed that in a lot of the things I read about him. And that was something that even came up in that Bob Balb piece that we referenced a couple of times in part two. He wrote of him, quote, "Though personally kind and gentle, at least at public events and social affairs, Mr. Moses becomes a violent, cutting fighter when he sets words to paper." He does write his own stuff.

• 4:20Holly Frey?

  Any ghost capable of writing as well as Robert Moses would have been in print long ago under his own name.

• 4:27Holly Frey?

  And he's not wrong. He really was a very good writer. That Atlantic article is long, and some of it really makes me angry, but it's well-written. I'll give him that, for sure.

• 4:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 4:36Holly Frey?

  He was very conceited. I also, we didn't talk about it in the, either of the episodes, but that quote mentions that he was actually very charismatic. I mean, people talk about him today in his public works, and there is, I think, a tendency to envision him as like, just this, you know, bull in a china shop flavored jerk who like, was like, nope, my way or the highway, and kind of barreled through things. And he kind of did have the my way or the highway thing, but he was really charismatic about it, which I think helped get a lot of people on his side over the years. It kind of goes back to what we had talked about, Bill Moskowitz kind of coaching him on like, hey, don't make people angry that you're gonna need the support from later on.

• 5:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 5:19Holly Frey?

  Be judicious about when you decide to be a jerk or not. I also think that's why he did not see it coming when he gave his resignation to Rockefeller, and Rockefeller was like, cool, see ya.

• 5:27Tracy V. Wilson?

  Rockefeller was like, fine.

• 5:29Holly Frey?

  Great, thanks, thanks, thanks so much. Here's a funny thing about the World's Fair in 1964.

• 5:36Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 5:37Holly Frey?

  The World's Fair had hours that were like 9:00 AM to 9:00 PM, except for one pavilion, which was allowed to have somebody stay there 24/7, like, to look after it.

• 5:47Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 5:48Holly Frey?

  Do you want to guess?

• 5:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  Uh, of course, my first thought was, was it a human zoo? But this was past the human zoo era of World's Fairs.

• 5:57Holly Frey?

  No, it was the Vatican.

• 5:59Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh.

• 5:59Holly Frey?

  So I don't, I didn't go down that rabbit hole to see if they had relics or something that had to be carefully looked after, but I was like, oh, somebody from the Vatican just like slept at the fair all the time.

• 6:13Holly Frey?

  Just gonna go live at the fair.

• 6:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  Wow.

• 6:15Holly Frey?

  There is another whole thing that happens. We mentioned in the episode that after his first wife died, he got married less than a month later. But apparently, well, not apparently, I mean, I did not read word-for-word everything in Caro's biography, because it's like 1,100 pages.

• 6:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  It's so long.

• 6:35Holly Frey?

  It's a lot of book.

• 6:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 6:36Holly Frey?

  I have read parts of it over the years.

• 6:38Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 6:39Holly Frey?

  But I didn't like sit down and cover to cover it for this. But there is a whole thing, and they are kind of accusing him of impropriety with, with women.

• 6:49Holly Frey?

  And one of the things that Robert Moses wrote in response to it was, "Among personal, nasty, false, venomous, and vindictive canards is one that I was romantically linked with Mrs. Ruth Pratt, our first Congresswoman, and that as a result, my wife took sick, became an alcoholic and a recluse, I virtually abandoned her, joined some kind of foursome, and took a lady who subsequently became my wife to Florida. My companion on the short Florida vacation was my daughter, Jan. With respect to my family life, the author's innuendos are wholly untrue and scurrilous."

• 7:27Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 7:27Holly Frey?

  And it's like, this is one of those things that then makes me go, oh, okay. Robert Caro. And this is where we get to the question you had before we recorded.

• 7:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 7:42Holly Frey?

  Which is overpass bridges.

• 7:44Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. I would say overwhelmingly, when I see Robert Moses's name on social media, it is about the overpass bridges and whether buses could get to the beaches.

• 7:59Holly Frey?

  Right.

• 7:59Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 8:00Holly Frey?

  Buses could not get to the beaches, but whether that was intended for the reasons that people suspect or not is a matter of very hot debate.

• 8:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 8:10Holly Frey?

  Here's what's up. So in the Caro biography, Caro relays a story that he says was told to him by Sidney Shapiro, who was an engineer who worked on a lot of projects with Robert Moses. And based on the 100 hours plus of interviews that he got from Shapiro, Caro said that Moses specifically had those overpass bridges built low to prevent buses from passing under as a way to keep Black and other minority New Yorkers from getting to Jones Beach specifically. That is the thing that often gets repeated.

• 8:44Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, and that's, I feel like I've seen 1,000 social media videos on such sites as like YouTube and Instagram reels and whatnot.

• 8:54Holly Frey?

  Yes. It gets repeated a lot, so much so that it's kind of accepted as proven fact in a lot of cases, but there have been some investigations into the veracity of it that leave it very much open to interpretation. Don't worry, I promise I'm not gonna try to tell you that Robert Moses was not racist. But there have been some additional details that have come up, a number of historians, architects, city planners, historians who specifically work in city planning, and a lot of them have come to the conclusion that Caro either fabricated or exaggerated this story.

• 9:29Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh.

• 9:30Holly Frey?

  So one thing that has been noted is that the bridges in question were basically carbon copies of existing bridges from Westchester County with the same basic dimensions. So those already existed. Some of Moses's overpass bridges through the state were unusually low.

• 9:51Holly Frey?

  Even those, though, have been debated with some analysts concluding that those lower dimensions were actually due to the land and the conditions of the area. They weren't like, also, this is the one part that is a little sticky for me that makes me go, oh, I don't, I don't know where we put the blame. All commercial traffic was supposed to have been prevented from entering leisure infrastructure. So the idea of a parkway was to allow cars to enter, but keep vehicles like buses and trucks out because they are noisy.

• 10:27Tracy V. Wilson?

  This is like the Blue Ridge Parkway, which we did an episode on previously in Skyline Drive. There's not supposed to be commercial traffic on those roads.

• 10:35Holly Frey?

  Right. That's why it is called a parkway. We, um, there was a moment we mentioned that was a quote from, from Moses where he was talking about, you know, parkways or mixed use highways. And like that's, he's specifying parkways are for parks. So there were ways that buses could get to Jones Beach, but they were a little bit roundabout.

• 10:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 10:58Holly Frey?

  They would drop people at like the far end of the park and it wasn't a convenient thing. But it is a little unclear about if Moses was thinking about like, yes, this is good. It will prevent black and brown people from getting to the beach.

• 11:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. Was he thinking, if I build these bridges too low for the buses?

• 11:19Holly Frey?

  Can I keep these people out? And again, he was racist. So that's possible. But yeah, here's the part that I get real sticky about too.

• 11:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 11:29Holly Frey?

  Because this story is said to have come from Sid Shapiro. So of course, the natural thing would be like, let's ask him.

• 11:36Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm hmm.

• 11:37Holly Frey?

  He died two years before Robert Caro's book came out.

• 11:40Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 11:40Holly Frey?

  So nobody could verify anything that he did or did not say. It becomes like an unverifiable claim, which is a little bit of a problem.

• 11:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm hmm.

• 11:50Holly Frey?

  Caro has said in interviews, Robert Moses is one of the most racist human beings I have ever encountered. And listen, that is probably true because he was for sure racist.

• 11:59Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm hmm.

• 12:00Holly Frey?

  But it is tricky to verify all of this. There has been a lot of debate and analysis over it specifically, probably you've seen a lot of it because Pete Buttigieg referenced it in 2021.

• 12:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 12:11Holly Frey?

  And that kind of kicked off a whole thing.

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• 13:43Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 14:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  AT&T, connecting fans to what they love. Connecting changes everything. AT&T. Guess who's back in the house? The old gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with Veev Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert McMillan and Jesay have in store this time around. They strut back down memory lane, navigating life, love, loss, and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kinds of insights that can only come from experience. So listen to your

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• 17:53Holly Frey?

  Here is where I net out on this.

• 17:56Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm hmm.

• 17:57Holly Frey?

  I'm not sure that he did say, build those bridges lower, it will keep these people out.

• 18:01Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm hmm.

• 18:02Holly Frey?

  But what I am sure of is that he, if that's the case, he also wasn't taking into account, making sure that beach was easily accessible for everybody in New York that might want to access it.

• 18:15Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm hmm.

• 18:15Holly Frey?

  Which is its own kind of weird thing.

• 18:17Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 18:18Holly Frey?

  And it's like, to me, that suggests a short sightedness that is not normally associated with him or the way he ran his projects. So that's where I'm kind of like, either you dropped the ball super bad because your racial bias just made you not even think about those people's needs.

• 18:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 18:36Holly Frey?

  Or it was a very convenient way to drop the ball.

• 18:39Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 18:39Holly Frey?

  Because you would have thought through all of these possibilities and you just went, okay.

• 18:43Tracy V. Wilson?

  Can I tell you where I net out, having not been the person who researched this episode, but have gone down some rabbit holes about the social media videos that I have seen about Robert Moses and the bridges. Where I net out is that it's plausible, but not confirmed that it was an intentional effort to keep buses from getting to the beach so that there would be fewer, quote, undesirable in his mind, people at the beach. Like, that's plausible, but not confirmed. However, as appealing as it is to find a figure who you

• 19:22Tracy V. Wilson?

  can point to and say, this person is the person responsible for this, even though Robert Moses was really good at clearing through bureaucracy and moving, moving things and getting things done, he was working within a system. And the system that he was working within was racist. And there was a lot of other racist infrastructure going on all around New York, some that he was involved in and some not. And when you really put the focus on him and like, put the, point the finger and say, Robert Moses, he did all of this, it's kind of ignoring all of that other stuff that was systemic and not just one guy.

• 20:07Holly Frey?

  100%. It is not as though Robert Moses introduced racism to New York.

• 20:12Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 20:13Holly Frey?

  Or even probably into like the public work sphere of New York at this time.

• 20:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 20:19Holly Frey?

  Yeah. I also just think like, when you do exactly what you're talking about, when you make it about one person's fault, you're really robbing the conversation of some of the avenues it needs to explore to get to a better place. Like,

• 20:33Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 20:34Holly Frey?

  The obvious answer at that point, if you accepted that this was all part of his mastermind scheme, is like, we can't have another guy like him in place, but I promise you're still going to have problems with like,

• 20:45Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 20:45Holly Frey?

  Policies that are inherently racist or reflect an unconscious racial bias, et cetera. So like, you have to fix the big, the bigger system, as you said. I'm going to tell you something right now that is going to perhaps blow your mind.

• 21:01Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 21:02Holly Frey?

  Robert Moses, infamous for prioritizing car traffic.

• 21:07Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm hmm.

• 21:10Holly Frey?

  Didn't drive.

• 21:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  That's funny.

• 21:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, it's funny.

• 21:16Holly Frey?

  Like, he just was like, we need more, we need more roads, more roads, roads, roads, roads, love the roads, roads, bring me more roads.

• 21:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. I live in a city where we, we desperately need more housing. One of the things that has been, that has come up often in proposals to build new housing is reducing the minimum number of parking spaces that can be included in this new apartment building, right? Because if you need 40 parking places, that's a lot of land that could also be housing. And every time, there is like gigantic debate with some people who just don't want there to be an apartment building, but some people who are like, but how are people are gonna

• 22:08Tracy V. Wilson?

  get around without a car? And that's a genuine question because where we are is not as robust in the public transportation infrastructure as other parts of the area around Boston.

• 22:22Holly Frey?

  Right.

• 22:22Tracy V. Wilson?

  And so sometimes I'm like, I'll see people saying, how can a household live with only one car? And I'm like, our household has only one car. And it doesn't get driven all that often. So it's like, I understand the comments and I, I, I feel like, as we said in the episode, like, this is something that was not just a Robert Moses problem. All over the country

• 22:51Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 22:52Tracy V. Wilson?

  has prioritized cars and continues to prioritize cars and get pushback when there are efforts to move away from the cars a little bit and have more infrastructure devoted to mass transit and bicycles.

• 23:07Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 23:07Tracy V. Wilson?

  Boy, are there people in some metro Boston communities furious about bike lanes.

• 23:15Holly Frey?

  Yeah. Was it, uh, I think it's still the case. This is one of the few ways that the height of the pandemic did some interesting things that were maybe good, which is that, like, I remember, I know it happened in San Francisco where there was a very historically busy area where they just closed the street to car traffic during that.

• 23:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 23:37Holly Frey?

  And made it like a public space where people could just walk around. And even after they reopened everything in the city, that stayed closed down. And it's like,

• 23:47Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 23:47Holly Frey?

  I don't know if it still is, but I know for at least a while it did. And it just became like a new thing and like a great vibey, like people just walking around, visiting restaurants, you know, patronizing the various businesses because they weren't worried about getting run over. Like, just a cool, I mean, it makes it so apparent when you see that happen. Like, oh, this is actually how people could be living in cities.

• 24:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 24:12Holly Frey?

  But we all are car people, myself included. I'm a car person. I, you know, I, I like, I like sitting in traffic because I'm a weirdo. Cause it's one of the few times that like, I can't be answering email. I can't be, yeah, I'm just, it's very zen for me. I'm in my head with my thoughts. It's quite lovely. But yeah, it's, it's a very, um, I'm not a city planner because I don't have the chops for it in a variety of ways, but including that I would have a hard time struggling with those kinds of questions of like, okay, but we do have a lot of people who have cars and they gotta put them somewhere.

• 24:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:50Holly Frey?

  What are we gonna do? You know, private parking decks or even city run parking decks get very expensive in a different way.

• 24:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:58Holly Frey?

  There's no easy answer. I think all city planners are kind of put upon in a variety of ways, but here's the funny thing I would like to conclude with.

• 25:06Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay, good.

• 25:07Holly Frey?

  It's sort of funny. It just tickles me a little. So we talked about the huge pool initiative.

• 25:12Tracy V. Wilson?

  Uh-huh.

• 25:13Holly Frey?

  There is actually a fun tie in between that 1930s pool initiative and the Muzak Corporation.

• 25:21Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 25:23Holly Frey?

  Because Muzak was established in 1934.

• 25:27Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:28Holly Frey?

  Their whole thing is that, or their thing at that time was that they would transmit music, not on the radio, but like, kind of with the cable style thing, like closed, closed lane, uh, you know, for public address systems and stuff. But the Astoria Pool, when it opened in 1938, had a Muzak contract. So there was always Muzak playing at the

• 25:51Tracy V. Wilson?

  That's funny.

• 25:52Holly Frey?

  But then in 1939, that was like their test case and people loved it, but it was gonna be $115 a month per pool. And that was too much for the city. And they were like, we can't actually do this.

• 26:07Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 26:07Holly Frey?

  But if Muzak had been cheaper, we could all have Muzak at our public pools when we're in New York.

• 26:12Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 26:13Holly Frey?

  Not that I ever go to a public pool in New York, but you never know. I just think that's funny.

• 26:22Tracy V. Wilson?

  YouTube Premium takes something you already love, which is YouTube and makes it even better. The content, the creators, the feeling of finding exactly what you're into for every mood and moment of your day. Premium transforms that experience into a more supercharged, enhanced way to enjoy YouTube. A YouTube Premium subscription gives you access to exclusive YouTube features and benefits, including, but not limited to, ad-free, uninterrupted videos, background play, which lets you keep listening even when your screen is locked. I know when I have a YouTube video playing and I'm walking around the kitchen and I instinctively turn the screen off, having the video stop is annoying. And downloading your videos so you can watch them anywhere, even without

• 27:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  a Wi-Fi connection. Whenever I'm traveling, if I'm gonna be away from Wi-Fi for a while, I love having things that are loaded up and ready to go, so I don't have to worry about it. Smart Downloads also automatically downloads videos by your favorite creators. So even if you forget to download things ahead of time, Premium has you covered. So if you like YouTube, you will love Premium. Sign up now for your free trial. Terms and conditions apply.

• 27:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  Guess who's back in the house? The old gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert McMillan and Jess A. have in store this time around. They strut back down memory lane, navigating life, love, loss, and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kinds of insights that can only come from experience. So listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you. All sass, zero filter,

• 28:17Tracy V. Wilson?

  and decades of perspective from four friends proving that queer joy only gets better with age on the podcast that never gets old. Listen to Silver Linings, available on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 28:34Speaker 06

  Okay, chicken nugget fans, I've got huge news. The new Burger King Chicken Nuggets just dropped, and they are the crispiest, the juiciest, and the tastiest chicken nuggets ever at Burger King. Burger King heard that a lot of you didn't like the old chicken nuggets, so they got to work and reinvented them. To go along with the new chicken nuggets, a lot of the sauces were reinvented too, because better chicken nuggets deserve better sauces. We're talking new buffalo sauce, honey mustard, sweet and sour, and even a whole new option too, the new special savory sauce, which is only available for a limited time at participating US restaurants. I mean, you need to taste it all for yourself. This

• 29:17Speaker 06

  new chicken nugget, reinvented based on real feedback, is made with 100% white meat chicken and is now better than ever. You gotta try the new Burger King Chicken Nuggets and sauces today.

• 29:30Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 30:13Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 30:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  So you're considering getting a home security system, but you want something that fits your space. Well, with ADT Blue, it's easy to customize a system that's right for you and set it up yourself. Just pick the kit and monitoring plan that makes sense for your home. Let's say you're worried about package theft. The ADT Plus app can walk you through setting up a new doorbell camera kit. Once it's installed, ADT Pros can help you keep tabs on it 24/7, or you can manage it yourself from the ADT Plus app. There are no long-term contracts, so you can change your monitoring plan whenever you want. The flexibility doesn't end there. You can add to your system as you need to with things like extra cameras or motion sensors. Some life decisions are hard, but thanks to ADT

• 31:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  Blue, you can DIY trusted ADT home security in a snap. Head to ADT.com/BLU to build your system today. And to hear more about home protection and other grown-up topics, check out new episodes of Grown Up Stuff on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 31:53Tracy V. Wilson?

  I was just thinking, instead of having people playing their music on their phone speakers and driving everyone else up a wall, I don't know if that happens in New York. I know that happens at places I go to sometimes.

• 32:04Holly Frey?

  It happens everywhere.

• 32:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 32:06Holly Frey?

  Everywhere.

• 32:08Holly Frey?

  At the airport.

• 32:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  When I said I don't know if that happens in New York, I meant I don't know if it is explicitly not allowed in New York.

• 32:17Holly Frey?

  Oh, yeah, no, I see it happen. I mean, if it's not allowed, people aren't paying attention to it, because I see it all the time when I'm in New York. I was just there and it was like, I saw it twice. Once at the airport with a person just like.

• 32:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah.

• 32:30Holly Frey?

  Playing their tunes, or they were like watching music videos on, I don't know, YouTube, I presume. And I was like.

• 32:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  I don't know when, as a society, people suddenly decided that listening to things on their phones without headphones was fine.

• 32:47Holly Frey?

  I mean, it's a.

• 32:50Tracy V. Wilson?

  I think that that has always been something that happens sometimes, but it seems a lot more prevalent now than it was in 1985, when the options for portable listening to things were smaller.

• 33:07Holly Frey?

  Yes, but I think you could trace it back, and again, I'm just talking out my keister. I don't really know, but I would trace it all the way back to like, not to vilify, but car culture. And the idea of blasting your radio in the car so everyone can hear how cool you are.

• 33:22Tracy V. Wilson?

  I hate that, too.

• 33:23Holly Frey?

  Which goes back way, way, way far. I mean, I did that as a teenager. Listen, I can't judge too much, but.

• 33:29Tracy V. Wilson?

  I hate that, too, however, one time. The funny thing that I will end on is that there was a delivery driver driving down our street one time who was blasting the soundtrack to Hamilton. And it was the, specifically the one where there is a loud call of Lafayette happening at points in the music. And so this delivery driver driving down the street blasting Hamilton. And at the key moment, some other person in the neighborhood yelled Lafayette, and it was glorious.

• 34:04Holly Frey?

  I love it. I love it. Yeah, I don't, I try not to judge. Listen, again, we have all been there. I have, anyway. I thought everybody needed to hear The Cure, was I drove around, you know, my dinky beach town that I grew up.

• 34:23Holly Frey?

  I was just trying to counter all the mainstream stuff that was going on, because I was a jerk, and still am in many ways, but I don't make people listen to my music. Anyway, Robert Moses, your legacy is confusing, difficult to really grasp. I mean, I do feel like, though, New York would not be what it is today if he had not been in the positions he was in. It would be something else. There are people who have suggested that if it were not for Robert Moses, New York would have had like a similar collapse to what Detroit experienced. I don't know if that's true. You're kind of like working in theoretical realm.

• 35:02Holly Frey?

  But it is interesting, and now, whenever I'm there, I will think about it in a different way, which I will be, I don't know, in a month and a half, I guess. I'll look at it then. In any case, if this is your weekend coming up, and you hate traffic, which I know is the norm, I know I'm the weirdo, but if this is your weekend coming up, I hope you don't have to sit in traffic, you don't have to be in your car unless you want to, you can hang out, you can do pedestrian things. I hope your neighborhood is cool and has a sense of community, and that you aren't choking down car exhaust, because everybody is driving instead of conducting themselves around town other ways. I also just hope you get time to do whatever it is that makes you happiest. If that's reading

• 35:43Holly Frey?

  a book, playing with your dog, or your cat, dressing your dog as a hot dog, which I love, obviously, you know, prepping for Halloween, the very important activity of this time of year, whatever it is, I hope it's relaxed. If you have to work this weekend, I still hope you get to do some of those things. It only takes five minutes to dress a dog if it's cooperative. If you have other things that you would like to do, I hope that's great. I hope everyone that can and likes it has a big bowl of ice cream, because that's what sounds really good to me right now. We will be right back here on Monday with a brand new episode, and then tomorrow, we will be right back here with a classic.

• 36:26Tracy V. Wilson?

  Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 36:41Holly Frey?

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 37:12Tracy V. Wilson?

  Whether you're calling the wise women in your life, video calling your girlfriends across the country, or checking in on someone who always knows how to make you smile, staying connected matters. Those small conversations, shared laughs, and quick hellos are what keep relationships strong even when life gets busy. Some of the most life-giving conversations start with just a phone call. That's why AT&T guarantees the network you can rely on, so you can focus on the moments and people that matter most. That's the AT&T Guarantee. AT&T, connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details.

• 37:47Speaker 07

  Snoring, gasping for air during sleep, daytime sleepiness? I'm Shaquille O'Neal, and this shouldn't be anybody's experience. Ask your doctor about Zepbound trisepotide, the first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea in adults with obesity.

• 38:03Speaker 02

  Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15-milligram injection. Zepbound contains trisepotide and should not be used with other trisepotide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and

• 38:45Speaker 02

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• 39:10Speaker 07

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• 39:17Speaker 06

  Hola a todos. Soy Jamie Lynn Segler. Cuando me diagnosticaron, tenía veintitantos años, y todo mi mundo cambió por completo. Pero con el tiempo decidí que no iba a permitir que eso frenara mi vida. Quise tomar las riendas, y después de hablar con mi médico sobre mis opciones, la elección para mí fue obvia. Boom! Eso es KISSIMTA. Obtenga más información sobre KISSIMTA o fotumab en kissimta.com.

• 39:47Speaker 07

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• 40:24Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.