Pod Insights Stuff You Missed in History Class Behind the Scenes Minis: Bias 3DS About this episode Holly asks follow-up questions about a paper Tracy mentioned in the episodes this week. Tracy talks about the use of the Nintendo 3DS as a Louvre guide.
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Transcript 5,001 words · 10 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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0:33 Holly Frey? A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx, listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1:04 Tracy V. Wilson? Whether you're calling the wise women in your life, video calling your girlfriends across the country, or checking in on someone who always knows how to make you smile, staying connected matters. Those small conversations, shared laughs, and quick hellos are what keep relationships strong even when life gets busy. Some of the most life-giving conversations start with just a phone call. That's why AT&T guarantees the network you can rely on, so you can focus on the moments and people that matter most. That's the AT&T Guarantee. AT&T: Connecting Changes Everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details. The Old Gays are back with Silver Linings, their lovable podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare.
1:47 Tracy V. Wilson? Robert, Mick, Bill, and Jessa strut back down memory lane for season two, sharing lessons on life, love, and loss. These are the kind of insights that only come from experience. So tune in to Silver Linings with The Old Gays on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
2:07 Holly Frey? Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeart Radio.
2:18 Tracy V. Wilson? Hello and happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. Wilson.
2:21 Holly Frey? And I'm Holly Frey.
2:23 Tracy V. Wilson? We did our unearthed installment for the autumn of 2025 all week long this week.
2:29 Holly Frey? We sure did.
2:30 Tracy V. Wilson? We did. What should we talk about first, Holly?
2:34 Holly Frey? So at the end of the first episode, you talked about a study about the way that bias factors into reporting on historical and specifically archaeological finds.
2:50 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
2:51 Holly Frey? My question throughout all of that, because I have not read this paper.
2:55 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
2:56 Holly Frey? Was there any weight or factoring given to language?
3:03 Tracy V. Wilson? So these, what they were looking at was papers that were published in these, the specific set of peer-reviewed journals, which I could be mistaken. I do think those are all in English. I do not know if any of them published articles that are not in English. And I don't recall if, I don't recall if like there was a language specification in the paper.
3:31 Holly Frey? But that's kind of my question. What makes it into those journals?
3:36 Tracy V. Wilson? Right. So that, so.
3:38 Holly Frey? So it starts out with a bias already.
3:40 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, yes. And that is something that the paper did not really look at that much.
3:45 Holly Frey? And I'm not, to be clear, I'm not dogging on the paper writers. I'm just saying like, the bias layers go even deeper.
3:51 Tracy V. Wilson? Right, right.
3:52 Holly Frey? And I was curious about where they started from.
3:55 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. So, um, one of the things, I had a lot of thoughts when I was reading this. And one of the things that I think is absolutely true is that it, the, the. Layers of what's at fact, what factors are going on here do definitely involve, like they start prior to even submitting the paper to a journal. Like it involves like, who is doing research? Where are they doing it? Can they get funding for that research? Does that funding require them to publish? Are there factors in how that publication has to happen?
4:38 Tracy V. Wilson? Or where are the places that people would like to do work? Safe for researchers and specifically a lot of the time, safe for researchers from somewhere else. Like, there's so many factors that go into like, before, before the paper even gets published. Yeah. And I think some of that, as I was looking at this paper, I was kind of sort of surprised.
5:06 Tracy V. Wilson? Because when I am working on these, I feel like there is a huge disparity involving the entire continent of Africa. There's a lot of research that is involving northern Africa and especially Egypt. But I don't see nearly as much stuff about the rest of the continent. Right. But then in terms of what this paper looked at, which was comparing the publications in the journals to whether it gets mainstream news coverage, like that wasn't as pronounced. Because they were starting, like they were comparing peer reviewed publications to news articles and not like comparing the world of archaeology to what gets published in one of these journals. Does that make sense?
5:52 Tracy V. Wilson? Yes. So yeah, there's many layers involved with this. I, as far as I know, those journals are published in English, which means that, you know, that somebody doing the research would need to be.
6:09 Tracy V. Wilson? Writing in English.
6:11 Holly Frey? Able to translate or have resources to have a paper translated by someone with archaeological knowledge.
6:18 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. So, uh, one of the things that happens somewhat regularly, um, is that I will have bookmarked a news article that's, uh, sounds really interesting that is from China or Japan or, uh, India or Vietnam. And what I have is like a really brief article in the English language version of a mainstream newspaper published in one of those places. Um, but I'm not able to figure out, like, was there a journal article about this? Where
6:57 Tracy V. Wilson? can I find that journal article? Can, can I find more information beyond this one, like three to four paragraph news story? And sometimes I just can't. Like, I can't trace back the details that are in the news story to find more information from like a university that might be writing about the research's press releases or, or a paper or something like that. So there are multiple intersecting layers that go into all of this. Um, we have talked about, or I have talked about before, um, about how I started really trying to focus on, uh, research that is collaborative and community-led when it comes to indigenous
7:39 Tracy V. Wilson? peoples as much as possible. Um, and that winds up excluding some things from the show a lot of the time. Um, because as a field, um, archaeology has sort of approached a lot of indigenous peoples around the world as like objects to be studied rather than
8:02 Tracy V. Wilson? Human beings who are here and present with us on Earth. And so a lot of times when I see an article that seems really interesting that is about something involving an indigenous community, my first question is like, did you ask? Like, are the people living here today, do they want this work to be done? And are they involved in it? And like that, those are all questions that were just, they were not part of this study. The study was just really about like, what are trends and potential biases involved in like, the gap between? Yeah. Peer review journals and news articles. Another thing that was quoted, or a quote that I had pulled out from the article that
8:45 Tracy V. Wilson? I did not wind up getting into in the episode itself, because I, I just, I felt like that was getting really long, was quote, skewed coverage may be particularly charged for archaeology, a field with large public interest that generates understandings about past cultures with real or imagined descendants. When mischaracterized, archaeological data can fuel harmful ideologies. And so what this part of it was about was the misuse of archaeology to like, support racist narratives.
9:24 Tracy V. Wilson? We have talked about, you know, people trying to argue that Britain and Northern Europe, Norse countries as a place that was historically exclusively white, which is just not true. But how archaeological findings about, say, Vikings can be used to try to support these racist ideologies that are not grounded in any kind of fact. I also think it's possible for archaeological data to be presented in a way that's not mischaracterized at all, but is also used to harm, to fuel harmful ideologies.
10:10 Tracy V. Wilson? Which is like, as just a made up hypothetical example, we are here in the United States going through, just as we talked about in the show, just ongoing assaults on
10:23 Tracy V. Wilson? The field of history and the idea that we should be accurately reflecting the past, including the many ways that things have gone really wrong. And I think it's totally possible to look at an archaeological site of, say, a colonial community and say, oh, it looks like this colonial community had a bunch of different people from a bunch of different races and ethnicities. And based on this evidence, it seems like everybody was living a pretty egalitarian, equality-based lifestyle.
11:00 Tracy V. Wilson? And then trying to use that to undermine the fact that there was a lot of slavery Inequality. And genocide and inequality going on. But then this hypothetical made up thing that could have been particularly true for this one community. We are living through an era of the federal government trying to create narratives using history and by extension, archaeology. And I think it's so easy for me to imagine things that can be picked out of history
11:41 Tracy V. Wilson? and historical documents and archaeological research and all of that, that straightforwardly, correctly interpreted findings can then be used to further hateful agendas. And I was like, this explanation of this has become incredibly long. Let's narrow down the focus of the discussion of this paper to be a little more on what the core of it was, which was this comparison of peer-reviewed articles to news coverage.
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12:52 Tracy V. Wilson? Hey, everybody. It's Tracy from Stuff You Missed in History Class. That's Alan Goya, a planning engineer at AT&T. He's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, defining the fan's experience. And Alan's master plan made it all possible.
13:13 Speaker 04 It was going to rival anything that was already built. And that takes quite a bit of people and different teams to all be on the same page.
13:21 Tracy V. Wilson? That includes field services manager Drexel Jones. His team made sure it all came together and held up on game day.
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14:28 Tracy V. Wilson? Extra cameras or motion sensors. Some life decisions are hard, but thanks to ADT Blue, you can DIY trusted ADT home security in a snap. Head to ADT.com/BLU to build your system today. And to hear more about home protection and other grown up topics, check out new episodes of Grown Up Stuff on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
14:57 Holly Frey? A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. Tune in for season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenx. Hosted by public health and policy expert Dr. Martine Hackett, Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition pushes the conversation within the rare disease community forward. Featuring guests living with MG, CIDP, myositis, SMA, and other rare autoimmune conditions, each episode explores hope, progress, and connection. How does research create new opportunities? How do shared experiences help light the way forward? How do we best show up for each other?
15:42 Holly Frey? Tune in to find out. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
15:59 Tracy V. Wilson? Other random stuff that I had written down.
16:02 Tracy V. Wilson? One of the news articles that I had found,
16:06 Tracy V. Wilson? that I had bookmarked that I was gonna put in, and then I was like, I think this might be of interest only to me, which is that the Louvre has stopped renting out Nintendo 3DSs for their audio and video tours at the museum. Yeah. When you were at the Louvre, did you get one of these? No. Patrick and I did, and it was really cool. Keep in mind, I went to the Louvre when we were all there in Paris. Yeah. With my gagging group of friends. Okay. We're not, we want to talk to each other. We want to comment on the art. We're not gonna sit there and listen to headsets.
16:43 Tracy V. Wilson? So funny to me. So whenever 90% of the time, I would say when Patrick and I go to a museum together, we get the audio tour. Um, and when we were in Paris to get the audio tour at the Louvre, you had to give them your ID because they were renting you a Nintendo 3DS. And because of the location awareness abilities of the 3DS, it knew where you were in the museum and it could pull up contextually relevant stuff for you.
17:09 Holly Frey? Yeah.
17:10 Tracy V. Wilson? And there were also places that had like a 3D counterpart to the object that you were looking at. So like, let's say you're looking at one of the statues that has lost various pieces of it in the millennia since it was made. The 3DS could have on the screen like a 3D overlay view of what all the pieces were. It was really, really cool. Um, and so, uh, when I saw this article, I was like, oh, we're going to totally talk about that. And I was like, I don't think that's relevant to like 90% of the people who would be listening to this, especially since there was no indication of what is replacing it at the Louvre. Like what is, uh, they've stopped issuing them as part of this, but they have not said like,
17:55 Tracy V. Wilson? what is the next thing that will be available as some kind of audio or video tour?
18:00 Holly Frey? Yeah, it makes me wonder if they're gonna go with an app.
18:04 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, so many places now have apps or just QR codes on the wall that you can look at with your phone.
18:11 Holly Frey? Yeah.
18:11 Tracy V. Wilson? Um, which is also really cool and I think helps to make museums, uh, in some ways more accessible. I would say the, the typical person coming to a museum who's an adult probably has a phone and hopefully earbuds with them. Uh, and can be a little easier, especially if you already have accessibility settings on your device that help you with things. That might be a little easier than like the, uh, the units that you carry around with plug-in earphones.
18:40 Holly Frey? Uh, yeah, I don't, I don't love being in public with headphones on.
18:45 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
18:46 Holly Frey? It makes me super uneasy.
18:47 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
18:48 Holly Frey? Cause I'm like, if there's an emergency and I don't hear it.
18:51 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
18:52 Holly Frey? Listen, my whole life is situational awareness. So I'm like, I don't want to, and I very, uh, uh, uh, it's infrequent that I will listen to headphones even on a flight. I'll subtitle it and sit there and be on my. Reading.
19:09 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
19:10 Holly Frey? Yeah.
19:10 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
19:11 Holly Frey? I don't know what that's about. I don't know what part of me is like, you're gonna miss something important if, if it's kind of the same part of my anxiety that doesn't like taking like prescription grade pain relievers.
19:24 Tracy V. Wilson? Right.
19:24 Holly Frey? Because I'm like, I will not be prepared in an emergency.
19:27 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
19:27 Holly Frey? What if something happens?
19:28 Tracy V. Wilson? Right.
19:35 Tracy V. Wilson? Another note that I had jotted down about this installment of Unearthed was two things about the Song of Wade. One, one of the researchers involved with this was named James Wade. Not related to the Song of Wade, but boy, did it make various reading about this confusing to me.
19:58 Tracy V. Wilson? Because there would be references to Song of Wade and Wade the character and then James Wade, the researcher. And every once in a while I was like, wait a minute, who are we, who are we talking about here? Are we talking about a poem or a living person? Also, as someone who has for my entire life had bad handwriting, boy, do I empathize with the idea that some, some scribe working with a document that was in both Latin and Middle English might have just made some unclear writing choices that people later were like, what does this say?
20:30 Holly Frey? Although theoretically, if that person had bad handwriting, they wouldn't be a scribe.
20:35 Tracy V. Wilson? Wow. They might have just been tired.
20:37 Holly Frey? Maybe, or they may have already given notice and they're kind of coasting.
20:41 Tracy V. Wilson? On a short timer day.
20:46 Holly Frey? Like, what are they gonna do? Fire me? I'm just gonna whip through this as quick as I can. Let's throw in some mythological creatures and really jack it up.
20:56 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
20:57 Holly Frey? Yeah.
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21:31 Holly Frey? A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. Tune in for season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenx. Hosted by public health and policy expert Dr. Martine Hackett, Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition pushes the conversation within the rare disease community forward. Featuring guests living with MG, CIDP, myositis, SMA, and other rare autoimmune conditions, each episode explores hope, progress, and connection. How does research create new opportunities? How do shared experiences help light the way forward? How do we best show up for each other?
22:15 Holly Frey? Tune in to find out. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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23:39 Tracy V. Wilson? I guess the last thing that I wanted to talk about is from the very beginning of the two-parter where I had to read something the president put on Truth Social.
23:48 Speaker 07 Yeah.
23:49 Tracy V. Wilson? Which I ask you ahead of time. And I said, no. You would rather not.
23:53 Holly Frey? I'm pretty game for most stuff, but I was like, girl, I can't do it.
23:56 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. Um, so what I wanted to talk specifically about, one of the portions that was in all capital letters of this Truth Social post was about how the United States cannot be woke because woke is broke. And so I just want to talk about the word woke for a minute.
24:22 Tracy V. Wilson? The first time I remember seeing anyone use the word woke, I do not remember exactly which incident this was because there have been so many, but it was probably 10-ish years ago. And was one of the many incidents we have had in the United States in which police killed an unarmed black person. And there was horrifying video of what had happened. Uh, and on Twitter, because this was back in the earlier era of Twitter, uh, someone tweeted, they were a, they were a black person.
25:07 Tracy V. Wilson? You, you could tell from the tone that they were, were tweeting two other black people.
25:14 Holly Frey? Yeah.
25:15 Tracy V. Wilson? And said, if you are just waking up, stay woke.
25:20 Tracy V. Wilson? And so the idea was if you are seeing this and you're really absorbing what is happening for the first time and you're horrified, stay, stay present with this, stay aware of what's happening. And so this is a term that has been used primarily among Black Americans for a really long time with those kinds of ideas, being awake and aware to what is going on around you.
25:51 Holly Frey? Right. It's like situational awareness at the meta level.
25:55 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. And to like the world that we are living in and to like the realities of that world and, and, and the harm that it causes specifically to Black people. And so the fact that people have taken that term and turned it into like political correctness version 2.0, to criticize anybody who tries to use like progressive language or to try to be inclusive in terms of how they talk about things like sex and gender, to be racially progressive, to be anti-racist, to be any of that. The fact that it's become this weird
26:40 Tracy V. Wilson? insult about a lot of the same things that people used to yell at us about being too PC over, it just makes me really angry.
26:50 Holly Frey? Yeah. And I will say this, some of the problem comes from the appropriation of language like that by well-intentioned white people.
27:03 Tracy V. Wilson? Sure.
27:04 Holly Frey? Who then adopt it into their vernacular, probably misuse it a lot.
27:08 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
27:09 Holly Frey? And that makes it easier for people with nefarious intent to then twist the meaning, which is why I think it's super important for people to be careful.
27:19 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
27:19 Holly Frey? About trying to be cool. And I'm putting that in quotes. That's definitely in scare quotes, but like. Appropriation of language, there's a reason that we're so nitpicky about it. And that's, that's an example of why.
27:35 Tracy V. Wilson? Right. There's also, at this point, an increasing body of research on things like social media and linguistics, how we use different language. And how things are being covered in media and talked about in media. That is remarking on a, like, a big disparity between what progressives are actually saying and what conservatives are saying they're saying. And it's like, what conservatives are saying progressives are saying is driving the bus.
28:13 Holly Frey? Right.
28:13 Tracy V. Wilson? Rather than what is actually being said. So, yeah, I, uh, I did not like having to read that true social post on the show. But I also felt like it was an important part of context.
28:28 Holly Frey? Right.
28:29 Tracy V. Wilson? For the letter to the Smithsonian, which read on a just straightforward, uh, surface level.
28:37 Tracy V. Wilson? But I can see people being like, this sounds reasonable, though. They're saying it's collaborative and forward looking.
28:42 Holly Frey? Yeah, but not.
28:43 Tracy V. Wilson? Like, I don't know.
28:44 Holly Frey? But also, I go back to the thing that, like, the Smithsonian should not be getting that letter.
28:49 Tracy V. Wilson? Right, right.
28:49 Holly Frey? From the White House, period.
28:51 Tracy V. Wilson? Right.
28:51 Holly Frey? End of, end of discussion.
28:53 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. Also, anytime I have gotten a letter or an email instructing me of something and telling me that this instruction is collaborative, I'm like, that, that's not what collaboration means.
29:09 Holly Frey? Accurate.
29:11 Tracy V. Wilson? Uh, collaboration is not, you tell me to do something and then I do it.
29:16 Holly Frey? Yeah.
29:16 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
29:17 Holly Frey? Anyway. Uh, would you like to end on a note that is my ding dongery?
29:22 Tracy V. Wilson? I would love that.
29:23 Holly Frey? I love any and every time that Unearthed features the Antikythera mechanism, because I love it to begin with.
29:30 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, yeah.
29:31 Holly Frey? That's extremely my jam. But also because now I can just, you know, in my head, it's like Pavlov's dog, the bell rings and I just hear the incredibly, incredibly appealing Mads Mikkelsen saying, "Antikythera." And I'm like, okay, I'm good. I'm good for at least the next 10 minutes. My dopamine needs are handled. Great.
29:51 Tracy V. Wilson? Oh, yay. Yay. I will make sure every single time, well, since this, since this five-year project of dives to the Antikythera shipwreck is, is over, I'm not sure what the next, uh, finds related to that.
30:04 Holly Frey? Surely someone else is in line for their next shot at it.
30:08 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, I will make sure to always include that.
30:12 Tracy V. Wilson? Uh, I think I just heard a siren. Uh, everything is fine at my house if anyone is alarmed. Whatever's coming up on your weekend, man, boy, do I hope it is just as amazing as possible. If you like to go outside and sit in the warm grass and there's warm grass you can go sit in, uh, I hope you get to do that and then check yourself for ticks afterward.
30:39 Tracy V. Wilson? Uh, if, uh, you would, if you're more of an inside kid and you want to spend some time playing video games or watching TV, boy, do I hope you have the best video game and TV watching time. We will be back with a Saturday classic tomorrow. We will have something brand new on Monday.
31:00 Tracy V. Wilson? Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
31:15 Holly Frey? A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
31:46 Tracy V. Wilson? Whether you're calling the wise women in your life, video calling your girlfriends across the country, or checking in on someone who always knows how to make you smile, staying connected matters. Those small conversations, shared laughs, and quick hellos are what keep relationships strong even when life gets busy. Some of the most life-giving conversations start with just a phone call. That's why AT&T guarantees the network you can rely on, so you can focus on the moments and people that matter most. That's the AT&T Guarantee. AT&T: Connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details.
32:21 Speaker 08 This is Stugatz from Stugatz and Company Live. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or a Corolla Sedan, with the latest features Entec, or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops. While Toyota's legendary resale value means you can get more at trade-in, get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.
33:00 Speaker 09 Hey, I'm Niall Rogers. This fall, I'll be driving across the country, meeting some of today's coolest and most fascinating artists. We'll explore the stories before the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the moment where it all began. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
33:31 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
Previous Unearthed! in Autumn 2025, Part 2 Next SYMHC Classics: Three Hellhounds Page updated November 1, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated