Behind the Scenes Minis: Paddles and The British Museum

Tracy and Holly talk about corporal punishment in schools and student loans. Tracy relays her experience at the British Museum. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by YouTube Premium.

• 0:07Speaker 02

  You already like YouTube, so how can YouTube get any better? Premium is the supercharged way to experience YouTube. There are so many features and benefits, including ad-free, hello, uninterrupted videos, background play, you know, lets you keep listening with your screen locked, offline downloads. You can download your videos to watch anywhere, even without Wi-Fi connection.

• 0:28Speaker 01

  Whether you're relaxing at home or on the go, it's built for you because your YouTube experience just got even better with Premium. So if you like YouTube, you'll love Premium. Sign up now for your free trial. Terms and conditions apply.

• 0:42Tracy V. Wilson?

  Whether you're calling the wise women in your life, video calling your girlfriends across the country, or checking in on someone who always knows how to make you smile, staying connected matters. Those small conversations, shared laughs and quick hellos are what keep relationships strong even when life gets busy. Some of the most life-giving conversations start with just a phone call. That's why AT&T guarantees the network you can rely on so you can focus on the moments and people that matter most. That's the AT&T Guarantee. AT&T, connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details.

• 1:17Holly Frey?

  We've all tumbled down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose, and it leaves us more anxious than informed. Our feeds are full of wellness trends, but how do we know what's real, what's exaggerated, and what's just wrong? Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association breaks it all down. Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends, not to cancel them, but to understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. So listen to Health vs. Hype wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  The Old Gays are back with Silver Linings, their lovable podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with Vive Healthcare. Robert, Mick, Bill, and Jessa strut back down memory lane for season two, sharing lessons on life, love, and loss. These are the kind of insights that only come from experience. So tune into Silver Linings with The Old Gays on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 2:16Speaker 05

  Attention Chicken Nugget fans. Burger King heard that a lot of you didn't like the old Chicken Nuggets, so they got to work and reinvented them. These new Chicken Nuggets are their tastiest, crispiest, juiciest nuggets ever. And because better Chicken Nuggets deserve better sauces, they've reinvented several of their sauces, and they created a brand-new one. The new special savory sauce, which is only available for a limited time at participating US restaurants, don't wait around. You gotta try the new Burger King Chicken Nuggets today.

• 2:46Holly Frey?

  Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeart Radio.

• 2:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  Hello and happy Friday. I'm Tracy D. Wilson.

• 2:59Holly Frey?

  And I'm Holly Frey.

• 3:01Tracy V. Wilson?

  We talked about six Supreme Court episodes, episodes? Six Supreme Court cases this week.

• 3:06Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 3:06Tracy V. Wilson?

  We did not do six episodes, although it is what I call it as six impossible episodes. A couple of these probably could have stood on their own as full episodes. There was enough detail. A lot of the time when we talk about Supreme Court cases, most of those have been mine to research. And a lot of times, there's a more in-depth exploration of who these people were, what their whole background story was, all of that. And since these cases have not gotten the same level of historical attention as things like Brown versus Board, there wasn't as much of that. So the two that maybe could have stood on their own made more sense as this collection rather than

• 3:48Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 3:48Tracy V. Wilson?

  just doing one or the other of them.

• 3:52Tracy V. Wilson?

  Paddles, man.

• 3:53Holly Frey?

  Oof.

• 3:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  I just...

• 3:58Tracy V. Wilson?

  I cannot imagine any person I know who teaches school today, number one, ever striking a child.

• 4:05Holly Frey?

  Right.

• 4:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  Number two, having an implied threat of a paddle displayed in their classroom. I just like, that's just not...

• 4:13Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 4:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  That's not how any of the teachers I know today work. Places I have lived, though, corporal punishment is still legal in schools. In North Carolina, where I grew up, it's one of the states where there's still a law on the books. But as far as I know, it is banned at all of the school board levels.

• 4:33Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 4:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  So it's not supposed to be implemented anymore.

• 4:39Holly Frey?

  Yeah, you had asked me when you were first starting this one if I had remembered similar things, and I was like, absolutely.

• 4:46Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 4:47Holly Frey?

  And I got to thinking, and especially after you sent over the outline, because I moved when I was nine from the Pacific Northwest to Florida.

• 4:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 4:58Holly Frey?

  And I don't remember there being any in-the-Pacific-Northeast schools I was in.

• 5:04Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 5:05Holly Frey?

  Because I remember having a culture shock when I saw one on a teacher's desk in Florida and being like, what?

• 5:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right. Yeah.

• 5:16Holly Frey?

  I mean, I was not this eloquent about it as a kid, but I was definitely like, there is an implied danger of violence always at school? Like, from an adult? What is this?

• 5:26Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 5:27Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 5:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  We didn't read the part of the decision. There's a part of the decision that's like, well, there's no move whatsoever for a corporal punishment to go away at schools. And I would say that's not fully true because there are still a lot of states and school systems where it's legal. And then there's also the whole issue of private schools being a whole other thing.

• 5:51Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 5:52Tracy V. Wilson?

  But I would say there is a lot more consistent messaging from things like academies of pediatrics, teacher unions, those kinds of groups saying that disciplining kids by striking them is, does not work in the long run and is

• 6:14Holly Frey?

  No.

• 6:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  and is not good for them, or anyone, really.

• 6:17Holly Frey?

  No, and it's weird because I'm sure you have run across this, right? Like, you will see this issue coming up, like, on social media. And there are always people that pop in and go, well, I got beat and I'm fine. And I'm just like,

• 6:31Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 6:32Holly Frey?

  I keep saying it in every behind-the-scenes, but please go to therapy.

• 6:37Holly Frey?

  I'm not sure you are fine. I don't mean to tell you your business.

• 6:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 6:41Holly Frey?

  But I don't think that's great. And moreover, even if you are, it kind of goes back to the same thing as like, I paid my student loans, everybody else should.

• 6:51Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, right.

• 6:52Holly Frey?

  It's like, okay, you got beat, but why would you want that for somebody else? Like, I don't, I don't understand that.

• 6:58Tracy V. Wilson?

  I can't remember if I've said this on the show before, but when I was young, my mom started putting, I really think it was $50 per paycheck into a savings account for me.

• 7:15Tracy V. Wilson?

  And with $50 a paycheck, was able to save up enough money for me to go to four years at a state-supported school. I had to save up enough money, I had to get summer jobs and things to pay for books and spending money. So mom had tuition, room, and board covered, state-supported school, four years. If I needed more than four years, or if I had to go to summer school, that was gonna be on me, or we would need to take loans.

• 7:41Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 7:42Tracy V. Wilson?

  So I was able to graduate from public school debt-free. That's what I meant, public college in four years, debt-free.

• 7:51Holly Frey?

  Amazing.

• 7:51Tracy V. Wilson?

  That school costs, like, more than four times more than it did when I was there.

• 7:59Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 8:00Tracy V. Wilson?

  It is not an amount of money that can be saved up by $50 a paycheck anymore. And I don't think children should have to go into tens and tens or hundreds of thousand dollars of debt to go to school.

• 8:15Holly Frey?

  No, me either.

• 8:16Tracy V. Wilson?

  That's another thing that feels really messed up to me because I definitely remember the whole conversations about financial aid for school, being told that that was good debt.

• 8:28Holly Frey?

  Yeah. I mean, I definitely had debt when I graduated because I wanted to go to a private school.

• 8:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 8:36Holly Frey?

  And when I graduated, there were two big loans, and my dad kind of made the deal of like, I will work on one, you work on the other. But it took me a long time to pay that off.

• 8:47Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 8:48Holly Frey?

  But I did. But I similarly am like, yeah, I remember how awful that was and how stressful it was as I was also like, trying to start my life, to have that hanging over my head. Why would I want to do that to anybody else?

• 9:02Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. That was also the why I didn't go to graduate school thing. I had applied to some graduate schools that were part of state-supported universities, where I would probably get like a teaching assistantship, that kind of thing. I did not get into any of those. And I cannot remember now if I did get into one of the private schools or if I was waitlisted. It's been 30 something years. But I was going to wind up at least $60,000 in debt.

• 9:34Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 9:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  With a Master of Fine Arts in Creative Writing.

• 9:38Holly Frey?

  Yeah. That big money-making job.

• 9:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, right. I didn't go to graduate school for that reason. So anyway, I have a lot of feelings about a lot of the things that we've talked about today. On a much lighter note, reading about the school newspaper, The Spectrum.

• 9:55Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 9:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  The first summary of that case that I read described the principal as deleting the articles before it was published. And I was like, how were they making the school newspaper?

• 10:15Tracy V. Wilson?

  Because I was on the newspaper staff in like 1993, 92, 93 is when I would have been on the newspaper staff. And that case was a school newspaper that was made in 1983 and the case decided in 1988. So I'm imagining that their process for creating the school newspaper probably involved manually pasting paper copies of the articles onto a blue line sheet that would be sent to the printer.

• 10:52Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 10:53Tracy V. Wilson?

  So, cutting and pasting for people who were not doing newspapers during this era, you were physically cutting and pasting your columns of print onto these things to send to the paper. So when I read something that said that the, the principal deleted the articles, I was like, there was no deletes. Like, you would have-

• 11:17Holly Frey?

  That key was not a thing.

• 11:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  No. You would have to pull the things off of the, the paper and replace them with something else, or just have blank space there. That would not work. And it wasn't until I got to the actual full reading of the entire decision that I said, oh, right, okay, that there were two full pages of the newspaper that would be a page, front and back, effectively, that withheld those whole pages. That makes a lot more sense.

• 11:47Holly Frey?

  Yeah, because you couldn't, I mean, that's the thing, based on his explanation of like, there was no way to get it to the printer in time.

• 11:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 11:56Holly Frey?

  Like redoing the layout of two pages when you have eliminated big chunks of them-

• 12:04Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 12:04Holly Frey?

  Would have been a nightmare. That's a time consuming task.

• 12:07Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. It was a time consuming task. And at least for my newspaper staff, it was an all hands on deck, time consuming task.

• 12:15Holly Frey?

  Yes.

• 12:15Tracy V. Wilson?

  And one of my friends who was on newspaper with me, I think two issues in a row missed layout day because he was ill or something. I, I don't remember why, but I do remember us being very mad at him for missing two consecutive layout days. And we were all having to make up for not having that person there to lay out the pages. Uh, next kind of offbeat thing from the research on this was saluting the flag.

• 12:45Holly Frey?

  Yes, thank you.

• 12:46Tracy V. Wilson?

  And how the flag salute was described as looking too much like a Nazi salute. I don't know if anybody was, still does this, but in the early decades of the pledge of allegiance to the flag in the United States, there was the Bellamy salute. I, I didn't write down Bellamy's first name, but he drafted one of the early versions of the pledge of allegiance. And it was a stiff arm, hands outstretched, definitely looking like what we think of today as a Nazi salute.

• 13:21Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 13:22Tracy V. Wilson?

  At the time, the Nazi party didn't exist. It, it had not adopted a similar salute as the salute that is most known as a Nazi salute today. But the fact that people were still doing a salute that looked like that in the 1940s as World War II was going on, I was like, wait a minute.

• 13:42Holly Frey?

  That's weird.

• 13:43Tracy V. Wilson?

  That's a little odd. Maybe a different salute than that. Or no salute.

• 13:48Holly Frey?

  Yeah, I, I feel like our, when I was in school, it was just hand over heart.

• 13:54Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, it was, it was, our teachers would be silly and say, put your right hand over your left heart, which is, there's probably only one in there unless you're a time lord.

• 14:04Holly Frey?

  That you know of, maybe. Maybe some of those kids were from another planet.

• 14:09Tracy V. Wilson?

  That's possible, possible. So yeah, also, I just personally find the pledge of allegiance to be a little weird. And I don't remember if I ever abstained from doing it when I was in school, but I, I would abstain from doing it now.

• 14:28Holly Frey?

  Yeah, I, aside from any, like, what the words you're saying, whether or not it invokes religion, et cetera.

• 14:36Tracy V. Wilson?

  Uh huh.

• 14:37Holly Frey?

  I just, on a strict, like, person who has watched horror films, get real creeped out by children speaking in unison.

• 14:48Holly Frey?

  I'm like, oh, no good will come of that. I don't, mm-mm.

• 14:51Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. My last random thing that I have written here is just the Warren Court.

• 14:57Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 14:58Tracy V. Wilson?

  I would say that of all the Supreme Courts, which are, you know, if you don't know, that they are usually whoever is the chief justice, like, they are known as that court for the amount of time that that person was the chief, chief justice. So the Warren Court is my favorite of the Supreme Courts. Sometimes I look at Supreme Court decisions and think that the Warren Court was the only good one. I would not say I agree with all of the Warren Court decisions by any stretch of the imagination, but the Warren Court is definitely the court that seemed to be trying to, to progress the country in a lot of ways.

• 15:37Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 15:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  That other courts have been trying to do the opposite of. And I have on my short list of things, the Warren Court. I don't know if that will ever happen because I don't actually know how it will tackle it. I've also thought about doing an episode on Earl Warren, um, who was governor of California before becoming a Supreme Court Justice. And his actions as governor of California, as we have talked about on other episodes, were very different from a lot of the things that the Warren Court decided because he was governor of California, like, during the removal and internment of Japanese people and their citizen children during World War II. One time I said that I had speculation

• 16:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  that one of the reasons that the Warren Court was so progressive was that he was kind of atoning for that. And I got livid emails about it. So I'm saying it again. If you want to send me irate email about Earl Warren, I guess, go ahead. Holly, did you have anything else you wanted to talk about?

• 16:40Holly Frey?

  No. I mean, I, you know, it's a, a weird thing, the whole idea of like, how children have been treated and perceived and legally protected or not through the years.

• 16:54Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, sure.

• 16:55Holly Frey?

  Always kind of hurts my heart that any, some of these discussions even have to be had.

• 17:02Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 17:03Holly Frey?

  And I know, like, it is hard to be a teacher, to be a school administrator. Like, those are jobs that are thankless. And it's very tricky to even discuss these because in some cases, like, nobody wants to vilify the profession of teaching, but there are instances where, you know, bad judgment has been exhibited. It's a, it becomes a very tricky and fraught topic to me.

• 17:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 17:28Holly Frey?

  Anyway.

• 17:29Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 17:30Holly Frey?

  Nuance in all things.

• 17:32Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. Uh, my first draft of the outline ended with the sentence, "In conclusion, children are persons with rights." And I deleted that sentence. I don't remember why. I said it now, though. There it went. Yeah.

• 17:51Speaker 06

  So YouTube Premium, it takes something you already love, that being YouTube, and it makes it even better. Not just the experience, but the content, the creators.

• 18:01Speaker 07

  The feeling of finding exactly what you're into. For every mood, every moment of your day, Premium transforms that experience into a more supercharged, enhanced way to enjoy YouTube.

• 18:12Speaker 06

  Yeah, folks, a YouTube Premium experience gives you access to exclusive YouTube features and benefits. And these are real game changers for us.

• 18:21Speaker 07

  Oh yeah, that includes what is not limited to ad-free viewing of YouTube. Imagine no more ads popping up in the middle of videos or at the end of videos. Uninterrupted videos.

• 18:31Speaker 06

  And now think about this. Let's say you're using YouTube on the go. You're exercising, you're washing dishes. You can have YouTube playing in the background with Premium, which means you can keep listening while your screen is locked.

• 18:45Speaker 07

  Also, you can download videos offline, so you don't even need Wi-Fi connection to watch your stuff.

• 18:51Speaker 06

  I love this on plane flights.

• 18:53Speaker 07

  Ben, how have you been using YouTube Premium?

• 18:55Speaker 06

  Oh, man. Well, Matt, you know, I like to take a night walk and YouTube Premium is perfect for this because of the background play. So I can pull up a documentary about the neighborhood I'm walking around in, put the phone in my pocket, and still hear everything perfectly.

• 19:11Speaker 07

  Amazing.

• 19:12Speaker 06

  So don't delay. Sign up now for your free trial. Terms and conditions apply. First thought is like, wow, how are we going to do all this?

• 19:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  Hey, everybody. It's Tracy from Stuff You Missed in History Class. That's Alan Goya, a planning engineer at AT&T. He's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, defining the fans' experience. And Alan's master plan made it all possible.

• 19:40Speaker 06

  It was going to rival anything that was already built. And that takes quite a bit of people and different teams to all be on the same page.

• 19:47Tracy V. Wilson?

  That includes field services manager Drexel Jones. His team made sure it all came together and held up on game day.

• 19:54Speaker 06

  Through what Alan's whole crew designed, we connected the event visitors to the world.

• 20:00Tracy V. Wilson?

  And after years of hard work and collaboration, it was opening night.

• 20:03Speaker 06

  To actually see the whole stadium light up and data's flowing is a beautiful thing. With the fans' experience, it's incredible. It gave me a lot of pride.

• 20:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  AT&T, connecting fans to what they love. Connecting changes everything. AT&T.

• 20:16Speaker 05

  Okay, chicken nugget fans, I've got huge news. The new Burger King chicken nuggets just dropped, and they are the crispiest, the juiciest, and the tastiest chicken nuggets ever at Burger King. Burger King heard that a lot of you didn't like the old chicken nuggets, so they got to work and reinvented them. To go along with the new chicken nuggets, a lot of the sauces were reinvented too, because better chicken nuggets deserve better sauces. We're talking new buffalo sauce, honey mustard, sweet and sour, and even a whole new option too, the new special savory sauce, which is only- Only available for a limited time at participating US restaurants. I mean, you need to taste it all for yourself.

• 20:59Speaker 05

  This new chicken nugget, reinvented based on real feedback, is made with 100% white meat chicken and is now better than ever. You gotta try the new Burger King Chicken Nuggets and Sauces today.

• 21:12Tracy V. Wilson?

  For any small business owner, there's a moment when you realize the next hire could be the difference between staying busy and actually growing. The challenge is finding the right person without wasting time sorting through candidates who aren't the right fit. That's where Indeed Sponsored Jobs comes in. When workplace chaos hits and you need someone who can step in and make a difference, this is a job for sponsored jobs. It helps put your job in front of candidates who match the criteria that matter most to you, whether that's skills, experience, certifications, or location. And you're certainly not alone in using Indeed. Join the 3.3 million employers worldwide that use Indeed to connect with quality talent that fits their needs. That's millions of businesses turning to Indeed to help solve hiring challenges and

• 21:56Tracy V. Wilson?

  find people who can help drive results. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. Get your $75 sponsored job credit today at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now, then this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

• 22:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  So you're considering getting a home security system, but you want something that fits your space. Well, with ADT Blue, it's easy to customize a system that's right for you and set it up yourself. Just pick the kit and monitoring plan that makes sense for your home. Let's say you're worried about package theft. The ADT Plus app can walk you through setting up a new doorbell camera kit. Once it's installed, ADT Pros can help you keep tabs on it 24/7, or you can manage it yourself from the ADT Plus app. There are no long-term contracts, so you can change your monitoring plan whenever you want. The flexibility doesn't end there. You can add to your system as you need to with things like extra cameras or motion sensors. Some life decisions are hard, but thanks to ADT Blue, you can DIY trusted ADT home security

• 23:08Tracy V. Wilson?

  in a snap. Head to ADT.com/BLU to build your system today. And to hear more about home protection and other grown-up topics, check out new episodes of Grown-Up Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 23:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  We talked about Asher Banipal and Asher Banipal's library this week on the show.

• 23:41Holly Frey?

  We sure did.

• 23:42Tracy V. Wilson?

  I really was. I don't remember if this was before or after. I really hit a wall in the British Museum because it was very hot and I was very tired. And we had accidentally arranged the day where we did not have lunch in between our museum stops. And we were in an area of the museum that's devoted to the ancient world. I don't remember where specifically where I said, okay, I have got to sit down and eat or I'm going to lie down on this floor. Those are the options.

• 24:22Holly Frey?

  Right.

• 24:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  And then it was either before or after that, that I had become incredibly transfixed by this ancient library, which was really what drew me to learning about Asher Banipal. And then I was like, oh, wow. Also ruthless is the term that gets used a lot. Definitely apt.

• 24:41Holly Frey?

  I'm not laughing at you being hungry in the British Museum. I'm laughing at my own thing when you were talking about what section you were in. And I remember being there at one point and my friend Woodrow was coming to meet me who lives there. And I said, we're in the room with the big giant head. And I just got the like typing, not typing, typing, not typing. And then he was like, Holly, that could be like 30 rooms.

• 25:04Tracy V. Wilson?

  There are a lot of rooms. Yeah.

• 25:07Holly Frey?

  I was like, okay, I'm sorry.

• 25:09Tracy V. Wilson?

  As I was reading about all the various Assyrian art sculpture material that's in the British Museum, I was having to sort of think, did I see that? Or did I see a different sculpture that could also be described similarly?

• 25:29Holly Frey?

  Oh, right.

• 25:30Tracy V. Wilson?

  Also, we have also in the archive a big two-parter on the Parthenon Marbles. I have a lot of complicated feelings about the British Museum.

• 25:41Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 25:42Tracy V. Wilson?

  And to the point that when we were planning the trip to England, I went back and forth about whether I wanted to go because I like, there are incredible things there. And some of them are incredible things that I would love to see in person. But then I also have the knowledge of how so much of what is in the museum has this very, at best, questionable history.

• 26:11Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 26:12Tracy V. Wilson?

  Of how it got there, including all of these library tablets, which were just sort of sent without having been.

• 26:20Holly Frey?

  Right.

• 26:21Tracy V. Wilson?

  Kept up with some of that being connected to just the priority of we need to get this. And then some, the evolution of archaeology as a.

• 26:32Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 26:33Tracy V. Wilson?

  As a field. I was kind of reminded of several years ago, Harvard was doing an archaeological dig on the campus, looking for the Harvard Indian School. And Holly, you and I went out there to do some video.

• 26:49Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 26:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  A little video field trip. And we were standing next to the area where when the students sifted what they had dug up from this like, you know, carefully plotted out area that they were excavating, there was an area where they would sift through what had been dug and see what was in it. And in the sifted area was what was obviously a roof tile.

• 27:17Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 27:17Tracy V. Wilson?

  And we had a whole conversation with, you know, the professors who were overseeing this about how like now this roof tile is effectively lost. Like, we don't know where the roof tile came from. We have no way at this point to trace it to where in the layers of the dig, which square it might have been in, any of that. And I thought about that when I was thinking about like, that was one roof tile.

• 27:43Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 27:44Tracy V. Wilson?

  This with the library is roughly 20,000 tablets and fragments.

• 27:50Holly Frey?

  Yeah. I'm curious, while you were at the British Museum.

• 27:54Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yes.

• 27:55Holly Frey?

  I'm gonna guess the answer's no, but did you chat up any of the staff?

• 28:00Tracy V. Wilson?

  I really did not.

• 28:01Holly Frey?

  Because I did when I was there last. And we talked about, you know, the need for repatriation and stuff. And I will say, it was very refreshing. They are all on, kind of on board. But they're also like, when you're in it though, and you realize how many things have to be sorted through, annotated.

• 28:21Tracy V. Wilson?

  It's so much.

• 28:22Holly Frey?

  You have to have a plan for how to repatriate all of them that's not going to further damage anything delicate, that also will.

• 28:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 28:28Holly Frey?

  Ensure its safety. They're like, it just takes so much time. And we understand that people want us to just give everything back.

• 28:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 28:35Holly Frey?

  But like, it's a decades-long process if you want to do it properly. And I said, oh, I guess I hadn't thought about how long that timeline has to be.

• 28:44Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, sure.

• 28:44Holly Frey?

  But I was very delighted to talk to them and they were always really, really lovely with me. And nobody was like, why are you asking these questions? So it was great. It was great.

• 28:52Tracy V. Wilson?

  I, on the other hand, was typically like, I do not want to speak to anyone or be perceived.

• 28:56Holly Frey?

  You know, I'll chat anybody up. I want the inside scoop.

• 29:00Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 29:00Holly Frey?

  At all times.

• 29:01Tracy V. Wilson?

  Something that I did notice that I had previously felt like was kind of lip service when it came to the British Museum specifically, was there's a whole idea of we have made this collection that's accessible to anyone. But the reality is it's in England, so it's the most accessible to the people in England. But when we were there, there were so many people who were there at the same time that we were, who were clearly from or closely connected to other places, speaking other languages, you know, groups of people together who, you know, maybe they live in the UK now, but are fluent in some other language.

• 29:45Tracy V. Wilson?

  They are speaking together out in the world. And so that did not erase any of my qualms, but did kind of make me go, okay, there are, there is a, there's a larger spectrum of people here than I thought that, than I just sort of imagined in my head that there would be.

• 30:02Holly Frey?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 30:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  A couple of other things that kind of jumped out at me. One is the shift in how we talk about the origins of civilizations. Because when I was in school and even into when I was in college in North Carolina in the 1980s and 90s, there was this idea of Western civilization. You took American history and you took Western civilization. And Western civilization was this framework of looking at history outside of the United

• 30:44Tracy V. Wilson?

  States, but it kind of was a progression of Mesopotamia to Egypt, to Greece and Rome, to Europe, and making this idea of this is Western civilization.

• 31:00Holly Frey?

  Right.

• 31:00Tracy V. Wilson?

  Today, I would say the more common framework for looking at this is world history, which is broader in its focus. My, my college alma mater had a, had a big humanities focus and a liberal arts focus for the curriculum. That has also been expanded out from, it was not called Western civilization when I was there, but it was a very, quote, Western focus.

• 31:28Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 31:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  And that has become a lot broader. And reading through the research for this episode and sort of seeing the focus from much older material versus focus, the focus from things that have been written a lot more recently, you could really see that shift in the thought process from like Western civilization to a more global world history.

• 31:52Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 31:56Speaker 02

  This episode is brought to you by YouTube Premium.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  Samantha, you know I watch a lot of YouTube. I watch a lot of it for fun, but I also watch a lot of it for research for this show. And I also put on a lot of stuff in the background, videos in the background to set a mood. I find it very relaxing or sometimes kind of hype, you know? If you're looking to get ready to go out.

• 32:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, I use it too. And YouTube Premium takes something you already love, YouTube, and makes it even better. The content, the creators, the feeling of finding exactly what you're into for every mood and moment of your day. Premium transforms that experience into a more supercharged, enhanced way to enjoy YouTube.

• 32:38Speaker 01

  Yes, a YouTube Premium subscription gives you access to exclusive YouTube features and benefits, including but not limited to being ad free. So uninterrupted videos, background play. So that lets you keep listening with your screen locked and offline downloads. So you can download your videos to watch anywhere.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  So if you like YouTube, you'll love Premium. Sign up now for your free trial. Terms and conditions apply.

• 33:03Speaker 05

  Okay, chicken nugget fans, I've got huge news. The new Burger King Chicken Nuggets just dropped and they are the crispiest, the juiciest and the tastiest chicken nuggets ever at Burger King. Burger King heard that a lot of you didn't like the old chicken nuggets, so they got to work and reinvented them. To go along with the new chicken nuggets, a lot of the sauces were reinvented too, because better chicken nuggets deserve better sauces. We're talking new buffalo sauce, honey mustard, sweet and sour, and even a whole new option too, the new special savory sauce, which is only available for a limited time at participating US restaurants. I mean, you need to taste it all for yourself.

• 33:45Speaker 05

  This new chicken nugget, reinvented based on real feedback, is made with 100% white meat chicken and is now better than ever. You gotta try the new Burger King Chicken Nuggets and sauces today.

• 33:58Tracy V. Wilson?

  For any small business owner, there's a moment when you realize the next hire could be the difference between staying busy and actually growing. The challenge is finding the right person without wasting time sorting through candidates who aren't the right fit. That's where Indeed Sponsored Jobs comes in. When workplace chaos hits and you need someone who can step in and make a difference, this is a job for Sponsored Jobs. It helps put your job in front of candidates who match the criteria that matter most to you, whether that's skills, experience, certifications, or location. And you're certainly not alone in using Indeed. Join the 3.3 million employers worldwide that use Indeed to connect with quality talent that fits their needs. That's millions of businesses turning to Indeed to help solve hiring challenges and

• 34:43Tracy V. Wilson?

  find people who can help drive results. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. Get your $75 sponsored job credit today at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now, then this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

• 35:09Speaker 06

  Snoring, gasping for air during sleep, daytime sleepiness? I'm Shaquille O'Neal and this shouldn't be anybody's experience. Ask your doctor about Zepbound Trisepotide, the first and only FDA approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea in adults with obesity. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15-milligram injection. Zepbound contains trisepotide and should not be used with other trisepotide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children.

• 35:52Speaker 06

  Don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia, if you're nursing, pregnant, plant to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulphonal urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor.

• 36:33Speaker 06

  Call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepbound.lily.com.

• 36:40Tracy V. Wilson?

  We've all done it, tumble down an internet rabbit hole trying to self diagnose. And sometimes doing our own research can leave us more anxious than informed. Your feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube, talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends.

• 37:22Tracy V. Wilson?

  Not to cancel them, not to hype them more, but to actually understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Start asking better questions and listen to Health vs. Hype on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 37:48Tracy V. Wilson?

  There is a book about this library. I have not read it, but it does exist. It is called The Library of Ancient Wisdom, Mesopotamia, and the Making of the Modern World. That is by Selena Wisnom. That's W-I-S-N-O-M, not wisdom with a D. And I did read, I think, a couple of papers by the author and I think listened to one interview. I did not try to read the whole book. It's only a couple of years old. That was just more than I had the capacity to do.

• 38:20Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 38:21Tracy V. Wilson?

  While preparing this episode. But yeah, that's another foray into much longer ago than the 19th century.

• 38:30Holly Frey?

  I was delighted that there was a reference to possible Hanging Gardens of Babylon.

• 38:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:36Holly Frey?

  Because as you may recall, we talked about that briefly in our episode on hydroponics.

• 38:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  Uh huh.

• 38:42Holly Frey?

  This is a good reminder to me that I need to finish resetting all of my hydroponic systems.

• 38:48Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:48Holly Frey?

  I'm in the middle of like, big, long reboot of everything, which, you know, since uh, it's getting harder and harder to safely purchase lettuce.

• 38:58Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 38:59Holly Frey?

  I'm uh, I'm very eager to go back to grow, just grow in my own right here in the office.

• 39:03Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, we, we shifted away. We were doing mostly leafy greens and herbs.

• 39:11Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 39:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  And we had shifted almost entirely to herbs.

• 39:15Holly Frey?

  Oh.

• 39:16Tracy V. Wilson?

  And then all of the, well, and then we also had an aphid incident that caused us to lose a couple of things.

• 39:22Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 39:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  But we had gotten into a more herb focused thing right when all of that started with the lettuce problems. And I was kicking myself for.

• 39:35Holly Frey?

  Same.

• 39:36Tracy V. Wilson?

  Having harvested and eaten up all the lettuce.

• 39:39Holly Frey?

  Same. I was like, I, we had spider mites.

• 39:43Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 39:44Holly Frey?

  Which are just persnickety as heck. And even if you do all the stuff, sometimes they just won't vanish. So I'm like, great, we're just gonna pull everything and restart everything. And I've been so slow about that process.

• 39:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 39:56Holly Frey?

  Partially because we do always keep at least four active jalapeno plants growing.

• 40:02Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:03Holly Frey?

  Because my beloved loves them and also I like to use them in cocktails.

• 40:06Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 40:07Holly Frey?

  They're great for mocktails if you are not a drinker. They'll still give it a nice little kick of that same sense of drinking like an alcoholic drink. Anyway, those things are hanging on, man. Even though some of them are like, the mites have gotten us, but look, behold our glorious bounty of fruits.

• 40:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 40:24Holly Frey?

  So I'm trying to let those die out, but this is a good reminder. This is the universe going holly.

• 40:29Tracy V. Wilson?

  Do the thing.

• 40:30Holly Frey?

  Just clear that biz out, move those outside and let them live or die. We don't know what's gonna happen.

• 40:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  The thing we have multiple of is basil.

• 40:37Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 40:38Tracy V. Wilson?

  Have a lot of basil.

• 40:39Holly Frey?

  We always love a basil.

• 40:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  Anyway, I liked learning about a person that I most associated with.

• 40:50Tracy V. Wilson?

  The They Might Be Giants song called The Mesopotamians, in which the Mesopotamians are a band that is touring. And it's Sargon, Hammurabi, Asher Bonapal, and Gilgamesh. Those are the four members of the band.

• 41:03Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 41:04Tracy V. Wilson?

  I knew already a bit about Gilgamesh and Hammurabi. I don't know a lot about Sargon. I don't know if there will be a Sargon episode at some point in the future.

• 41:13Holly Frey?

  Do you know what I really want after this episode?

• 41:16Tracy V. Wilson?

  What's that?

• 41:17Holly Frey?

  Because as you recall, I used to work in cataloging in a university library.

• 41:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:24Holly Frey?

  I want someone to decipher Asher Bonapal's cataloging system.

• 41:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, well, some of it is a bit. Like, I read some papers that were about looking at the colophons and what they said, and how there are specific annotations that are used only on specific types of texts.

• 41:42Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 41:43Tracy V. Wilson?

  And I don't know if that has been reconstructed into like, this is, this is what the whole system looked like.

• 41:51Holly Frey?

  Right.

• 41:52Tracy V. Wilson?

  It's possible that that knowledge is in the book, The Library of Ancient Wisdom: Mesopotamia and the Making of the Modern World.

• 41:59Holly Frey?

  Listen, I just look forward to a new phase when not only can we pit Library of Congress and Dewey Decimal against each other, but also a new contender has entered the ring. I'm ready.

• 42:12Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, I have a membership to a private library where the classifications are Library of Congress and Cutter.

• 42:19Holly Frey?

  Cutter is part of Library of Congress.

• 42:21Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh.

• 42:21Holly Frey?

  Cutter numbers are the, the extended, like, coda numbers of a Library of Congress number.

• 42:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  Maybe I'm misremembering which the two, because there's two different classification systems in use at the library. And when you look for books, it tells you which of the classification systems it is filed under.

• 42:42Holly Frey?

  Now, it is possible, now I'm looking it up really quick.

• 42:45Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 42:47Holly Frey?

  That if you are in, yeah, I always, Cutter numbers were always part of Library of Congress. Yeah, there's the Library of Congress Cutter table. I'm not losing my mind.

• 42:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  I am misremembering then.

• 42:59Holly Frey?

  My curiosity, though, is that because it's a private library, if they have a section that is very specifically one thing.

• 43:07Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 43:07Holly Frey?

  They may do away with the earlier half of it and only work with the Cutter numbers.

• 43:12Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, sure.

• 43:12Holly Frey?

  You know what I mean?

• 43:13Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 43:14Holly Frey?

  Because those get into like, really fine tuning how you designate where things will go on the shelf.

• 43:20Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. I have also had on my shortlist for a long time Dewey as a person.

• 43:27Holly Frey?

  Me too.

• 43:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  But I just.

• 43:28Holly Frey?

  I'm always like, err.

• 43:29Tracy V. Wilson?

  I know, I just don't, I don't have the patience for such a terrible man.

• 43:36Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 43:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 43:38Holly Frey?

  Yeah. And I'm not a fan of his system. I know it's very good for elementary and public libraries. I know it is.

• 43:44Tracy V. Wilson?

  Sure.

• 43:45Holly Frey?

  But it's so limited sometimes.

• 43:47Tracy V. Wilson?

  It is, yeah.

• 43:48Holly Frey?

  Which is the dumb, this is just the stupidest thing to get irritated by, but there we are. Anyway, we're all going to adopt this new form that we're going to discern, fully flesh out and develop.

• 44:02Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 44:03Holly Frey?

  No, we're not, no, we're not.

• 44:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  Well, whatever is happening on your weekend, if there's a trip you're going to make to a museum, or a library, or someplace where you can find some knowledge that you haven't had previously, boy, do I hope that's great. Whatever is happening on the weekend, I hope it is going as, as well as possible. If you're working, I hope everyone is great to you, both your colleagues and any members of the public you may have to face during, during your working time. I don't know why I suddenly got a little hoarse while trying to talk, but I hope it's a combination of restful and productive, and whatever balance is best for you. We will be back on Monday with a brand new episode of the show,

• 44:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  and tomorrow with a Saturday classic.

• 44:56Tracy V. Wilson?

  Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 45:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You ever show up late to the game and your friends already saved your seat, your drink, even a plate? That's looking out, that's having your back. And that's exactly what AT&T does with the AT&T Guarantee. They know staying connected matters, so they actually guarantee

• 45:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  a network that comes through when it counts. AT&T has connectivity you can depend on, or they'll proactively make it right, just like that friend who takes care of things before you even ask. AT&T: Connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details.

• 46:15Speaker 06

  Snoring, gasping for air during sleep, daytime sleepiness? I'm Shaquille O'Neal, and this shouldn't be anybody's experience. Ask your doctor about Zepbound Trisepotide, the first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea in adults with obesity. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15-milligram injection. Zepbound contains trisepotide, and should not be used with other trisepotide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children.

• 46:58Speaker 06

  Don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia, if you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulphonal urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor.

• 47:39Speaker 06

  Call 1-800-545-5979, or visit zepbound.lily.com.

• 47:45Tracy V. Wilson?

  Hola a todos. Soy Jamie Lynn Sigler. Cuando me diagnosticaron, tenía veintitantos años, y todo mi mundo cambió por completo. Pero con el tiempo decidí que no iba a permitir que eso frenara mi vida. Quise tomar las riendas. Y después de hablar con mi médico sobre mis opciones, la elección para mí fue obvia. Boom, eso es KISSIMTA. Obtenga más información sobre KISSIMTA o fotumab en kissimta.com. This is Shirley Strawberry from the Steve Harvey Morning Show. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry,

• 48:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  Corolla Cross, or a Corolla Sedan with the latest features and tech. Or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or Adventure Ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops. While Toyota's legendary resale value means you could get more at trade-in, get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.

• 48:56Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.