Pod Insights Stuff You Missed in History Class Behind the Scenes Minis: Wanda’s Motivations About this episode Holly shares a theory on why Wanda Gág didn’t drink. There is also discussion of Gág’s medical issues and how they were handled by doctors.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
0:04 Speaker 01 Snoring, gasping for air during sleep, daytime sleepiness? I'm Shaquille O'Neal, and this shouldn't be anybody's experience. Ask your doctor about Zepbound Trisepotide, the first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea in adults with obesity.
0:20 Speaker 02 Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15-milligram injection. Zepbound contains trisepotide and should not be used with other trisepotide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic
1:05 Speaker 02 reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia, if you're nursing, pregnant, plant-to-be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems.
1:27 Speaker 01 Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979, or visit zepbound.lily.com.
1:34 Holly Frey? A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
2:06 Tracy V. Wilson? Show up late to the game and your friends already saved your seat, your drink, even a plate, that's looking out. That's having your back. And that's exactly what AT&T does with the AT&T Guarantee. They know staying connected matters, so they actually guarantee a network that comes through when it counts. AT&T has connectivity you can depend on, or they'll proactively make it right, just like that friend who takes care of things before you even ask. AT&T, connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details.
2:38 Holly Frey? We've all tumbled down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose, and it leaves us more anxious than informed. Our feeds are full of wellness trends, but how do we know what's real, what's exaggerated, and what's just wrong? Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association breaks it all down. Emmy nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends, not to cancel them, but to understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. So listen to Health vs. Hype wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.
3:22 Holly Frey? Hello and happy Friday. I'm Holly Frey.
3:25 Tracy V. Wilson? And I'm Tracy V. Wilson.
3:26 Holly Frey? And we talked about Wanda Gog all week.
3:29 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
3:29 Holly Frey? You know what we did not talk about regarding Wanda Gog?
3:32 Tracy V. Wilson? What?
3:33 Holly Frey? A lot of her friends kind of talk trash about her.
3:35 Tracy V. Wilson? Oh, really?
3:36 Holly Frey? They were like, she was really selfish and kind of hard to be around. And I'm like, oh, that would explain why there aren't a lot of friends in her picture a lot of the time.
3:45 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
3:46 Holly Frey? Although her siblings remained very close to her. Her, um, her youngest sibling, Flavia, spent a lot of time with Wanda throughout her life, often staying at her house, and her other siblings would often stay there as well.
4:01 Tracy V. Wilson? Questions?
4:02 Holly Frey? Yes.
4:03 Tracy V. Wilson? So, based on her life story, it seems like from a really early age, she was trying so hard to financially hold her family together.
4:12 Holly Frey? Yeah.
4:13 Tracy V. Wilson? So, the characterization of her as selfish, like, I get it. I get how a person can be, in a friend context, coming off as selfish, or maybe self-centered.
4:26 Holly Frey? Right.
4:27 Tracy V. Wilson? But it's, and I, it's, in some ways, seems at odds with this idea of like, having really tried, from her teens, to try to keep the family afloat. But also, part of me is like, I feel like if I were in that situation, and I were, from my teenage years, meticulously tracking my money to try to keep my family fed, I might, as an adult, be a little selfish.
4:53 Holly Frey? Yeah, I would be self-indulgent as hell. Um, I mean, I think part of it probably is actually that she lived for no one else but Wanda Gog. Do you know what I mean? Like, her desires were her primary priority, which I think is fine and great. Like, she didn't do a lot of like, "Well, would so-and-so be unhappy if I do this?" It'd be like, "This is what I want to do, this is what I'm going to do." And I think on top of that, the fact that she was pretty conceited about her artistic talent, probably rubbed people the wrong way, but they couldn't just put it that way. So, instead, they said she was selfish. Do you know what I mean? Because that would be like, admitting that, like, they didn't,
5:34 Holly Frey? they weren't on even footing in terms of art career. There's a fun factoid that I saw on a video that is on the website for the Wanda Gog House. And it is a weird numerology thing, but it's fascinating. It is the importance, or the constant recurrence of the number 7 in her father and mother's lives.
6:02 Holly Frey? The house was originally painted with seven different colors.
6:08 Tracy V. Wilson? Uh huh.
6:09 Holly Frey? When he built it with, when he only had the one child, not seven. Um, it has seven different window shapes. It has seven rooms.
6:17 Tracy V. Wilson? Uh huh.
6:17 Holly Frey? And then they had seven children. And then both Anton and Lissy died when they were forty nine years old.
6:26 Tracy V. Wilson? Oh goodness.
6:26 Holly Frey? Seven squared. It's just weird. I don't think it means anything. I don't, I'm just saying it's interesting.
6:32 Tracy V. Wilson? Uh huh.
6:32 Holly Frey? Uh, I, I love it. Um, but speaking of her parents, there's a thing, we mentioned that Wanda was perceived by her friends as being kind of Victorian in her social values.
6:48 Tracy V. Wilson? Oh yeah.
6:49 Holly Frey? And one thing we didn't talk about in the show, and in part because I feel like it's a thing that's a little hard to pick apart, is that I think she had some early experiences with people drinking that she did not like.
7:06 Tracy V. Wilson? Okay.
7:07 Holly Frey? Apparently after her father died, you know, we talk about how the kids are all doing all the work to support the family and her mom really wasn't. And she was physically ill, but it seems like also she may have had a problem with alcohol misuse at the end of her life.
7:24 Tracy V. Wilson? Uh huh.
7:25 Holly Frey? Because she had been prescribed by a doctor at some point to drink beer to help calm her nerves.
7:33 Tracy V. Wilson? Hmm.
7:33 Holly Frey? And it seems like that escalated. And so I feel like Wanda would never speak ill of her mother.
7:39 Tracy V. Wilson? Right.
7:40 Holly Frey? But it seems like that impacted her perception of drinking and alcohol use and she didn't want any part of it. And one of the reasons that she and Earl, one of the reasons she wanted to move from a house they had been in in the country for several years, was that they had a neighbor that would come over and drink with Earl and she didn't like him drinking either. And that was part of what precipitated her being like, we should move. Um. Which is just interesting. I don't think she ever, I read her younger year diaries and I read a lot of her other writing, but I never saw, and it could be in there somewhere, anything that specifically said like, hey, I saw people drinking and that was horrible and I didn't
8:23 Holly Frey? like it. So I didn't want any part of it. But she never was a drinker at all. Like I think she just associated it with not good things and painfulness.
8:33 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
8:33 Holly Frey? Um, which is kind of interesting. Um, she also, there are a couple of things about her personal health that I did not include. She did at least one time in her life terminate a pregnancy, which she's pretty open about in her diary. Um, she also had a lot of issues with her period throughout her life.
8:57 Tracy V. Wilson? Mm hmm.
8:57 Holly Frey? Um, which was another thing that she would try to describe to doctors and they would be like, you need rest. Um, but they were bad enough that like when she would get her period, it would be extremely painful for several days. And it was bad enough that she had to structure her life around like, I need to have those days off because I can't do anything.
9:17 Tracy V. Wilson? Right.
9:17 Holly Frey? Like she was basically bedridden because it was so painful. It was hard to move. So, um, but I will say that she called her period by a funny name, much like vacation is a funny name for open relationship.
9:29 Tracy V. Wilson? Okay.
9:29 Holly Frey? She called her period hallelujah.
9:32 Tracy V. Wilson? Okay.
9:34 Holly Frey? I don't know if that's something she started calling it.
9:39 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
9:39 Holly Frey? Because she was having some sexual dalliances.
9:44 Tracy V. Wilson? Okay, that would make sense.
9:46 Holly Frey? I can't imagine another reason you would call it that, especially if it brings nothing but pain.
9:52 Tracy V. Wilson? Right, right.
9:56 Speaker 01 Snoring, gasping for air during sleep, daytime sleepiness. I'm Shaquille O'Neal and this shouldn't be anybody's experience. Ask your doctor about Zepbound Terzipatide, the first and only FDA approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea in adults with obesity.
10:12 Speaker 02 Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15-milligram injection. Zepbound contains trezepatide and should not be used with other trezepatide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic
10:57 Speaker 02 reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia, if you're nursing, pregnant, plant-to-be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulphonal urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems.
11:20 Speaker 01 Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepbound.lily.com.
11:27 Speaker 05 First thought is like, wow, how are we gonna do all this?
11:29 Tracy V. Wilson? Hey, everybody, it's Tracy from Stuff You Missed in History Class. That's Alan Goya, a planning engineer at AT&T. He's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, defining the fan's experience. And Alan's master plan made it all possible.
11:50 Speaker 05 It was gonna rival anything that was already built, and that takes quite a bit of people and different teams to all be on the same page.
11:58 Tracy V. Wilson? That includes field services manager Drexel Jones. His team made sure it all came together and held up on game day.
12:04 Speaker 06 Through what Alan's whole crew designed, we connected the event visitors to the world.
12:10 Tracy V. Wilson? And after years of hard work and collaboration, it was opening night.
12:14 Speaker 06 To actually see the whole stadium light up and data's flowing is a beautiful thing.
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12:21 Tracy V. Wilson? AT&T, connecting fans to what they love.
12:24 Speaker 07 Connecting changes everything. AT&T.
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13:34 Holly Frey? We've all done it. Tumble down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose. And sometimes doing our own research can leave us more anxious than informed. Your feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube, talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends.
14:16 Holly Frey? Not to cancel them, not to hype them more, but to actually understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Start asking better questions and listen to Health vs. Hype on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
14:43 Tracy V. Wilson? We have made some progress as a society in terms of women's health.
14:48 Holly Frey? Yeah.
14:49 Tracy V. Wilson? But like, as an example, my mom has a progressive neurological disorder that she spent so many years going to doctors and specialists and having them tell her it was just stress.
15:05 Holly Frey? Yeah.
15:06 Tracy V. Wilson? It's not. Her neurons are being actively damaged in her body.
15:12 Holly Frey? Right. Yeah, that happens a lot. I mean, I, not to be too overshery about personal stuff, but right, you remember at the beginning of last year, I was having, don't anybody be scared, I'm fine. I was having chest pain, which my doctor kept telling me was because I was eating spicy food, even though I was like, I don't know how to eat spicy food. I will eat all the butter, but I can't really do spices. I can never tolerate them. I don't know what's going on. And it turned out that I had like a big old gallstone lodged in the duct between my gallbladder and my stomach. And like, it was like, you know, you're just, I think it's spicy food and stress and you're drinking too much coffee and not taking care of yourself.
15:55 Holly Frey? And like, there was a week where I wasn't allowed to eat because we were trying to like, get all of the stuff out of my system. And it was like, it didn't get any better.
16:03 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
16:03 Holly Frey? Until I was in the ER and they were like, oh, girl, that's not what's up.
16:06 Tracy V. Wilson? Right, right. I remember the extended misery of like, trying to avoid coffee during all of that. And then you had your gallbladder out and it was like, everything resolved.
16:17 Holly Frey? Everything was fine, instantly fine. Felt great after that. Um, yeah, it was, it's kind of funny. We're not there yet. And I'm sure some of it is just, right, like.
16:28 Tracy V. Wilson? Some of it's the system and it applies to everyone, but there are disproportionate things that affect everyone who's not a man.
16:35 Holly Frey? Yeah. I mean, I feel like too, a lot of the times, because menopause has not been studied all that much, right? Compared to other things. It's not to say that there haven't been any, but um, when you say something, sometimes they'll just be like, oh, that's probably menopause. Or, I don't know, maybe. Is this menopause? I don't know, maybe. And so it can get really frustrating. So it doesn't surprise me that she was going to doctors and going, I think I'm starting menopause. I think it's giving me problems.
17:06 Tracy V. Wilson? And they were like, probably not.
17:08 Holly Frey? Something in my chest hurts. And she was like, they were like, you, you need to lie down.
17:13 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, yeah. I've had multiple conversations with people in my friend group about perimenopause, specifically, and how everything we know about it, we have learned from each other and, and not from doctors.
17:32 Holly Frey? Yeah.
17:32 Tracy V. Wilson? Uh, and you'll go to the doctor, uh, and have like the similar situation of like, I'm having these things happen. And they're like, yeah, may, maybe.
17:43 Holly Frey? Maybe.
17:44 Tracy V. Wilson? You know, I feel like I have a doctor that does listen to me and does like, and, and will order tests, uh, to try, but it still is like, we don't really for sure know why this is happening. All of these tests are normal. Maybe perimenopause, maybe.
17:58 Holly Frey? Yeah. And I will say, this is like my moment to do a little PSA. I know that healthcare is not available to everyone, but if you can, and if you have access, and if you are able to, please get all of your baseline screenings done as often as you possibly can on your yearly or whatever schedule, because it's when you have that in place, it's easier to see the variations that indicate something else is wrong.
18:23 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
18:24 Holly Frey? I know it sucks, but please do it and take care of yourself because you're the only one we have.
18:30 Tracy V. Wilson? And I will also add to this, that like, I know it can be really hard for a number of reasons to stay on top of the things that your doctor has asked you to do. But for example, I would not know that I needed an increase in my blood pressure medicine, had I not been trying to take my blood pressure at home three times a week, like my doctor asked.
18:52 Holly Frey? Yeah. I mean, that stuff is really, um, important, especially as you kind of hit our age, you know, where, um,
18:59 Tracy V. Wilson? As the world becomes progressively more chaotic and possibly the increased stress in your life is making your blood pressure significantly higher.
19:06 Holly Frey? Yeah, yeah. We mentioned in the course of the episode when Earl and her brother decided not to tell her she had advanced stage cancer, that it was not entirely unheard of for that to be the case, even though she, she in her diary is like, they're, they're giving me x-ray therapy. I'm pretty sure this is cancer. Not uncommon, hard to hear that, you know, in our age where we are a little more aware of, conscious of, often discussing the ideas of bodily autonomy. And it's easy to want to condemn that choice, but I don't think
19:50 Holly Frey? that didn't feel especially out of hand, given time and place.
19:54 Tracy V. Wilson? Right, right.
19:55 Holly Frey? And because Earl was obviously really devoted to her at the end of her life, you know, he, he did basically put aside everything he had going on to take care of her.
20:05 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, yeah.
20:07 Holly Frey? So, but it's also weird.
20:09 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. By the time these episodes come out, we will have had a Saturday classic about George Wallace, who's, we have a similar story in that episode regarding his wife and a cancer diagnosis that she wasn't informed of. It is by coincidence that that is how this is lining up.
20:30 Holly Frey? Yeah. I mean, I feel like I also was thinking of, in the recent Vonnegut episode, we mentioned that when his sister was very ill in the hospital with cancer, they didn't want to tell her that her husband had died.
20:48 Tracy V. Wilson? Right.
20:50 Holly Frey? Which, you know, she found out by accident and it was horrible. And I, I don't, I don't know, that's a hard choice to make. And I don't, I don't want to dog anybody as stealing someone's autonomy when I know in these cases, it's not like they're hiding something from someone to try to do something devious. They're trying not to hurt them worse. But I don't, I'm not equipped to make those decisions for other people. So I don't, I don't know. But I did think it would be a little more joyous to end this one by talking about what Wanda Gog throughout her life listed as her three passions.
21:31 Holly Frey? And they were, obviously, unsurprisingly to anyone, art.
21:35 Tracy V. Wilson? Yep.
21:36 Holly Frey? Sex.
21:37 Tracy V. Wilson? Yep.
21:37 Holly Frey? And growing things.
21:39 Tracy V. Wilson? Okay.
21:39 Holly Frey? She loved her garden.
21:41 Tracy V. Wilson? I love that.
21:44 Tracy V. Wilson? Um, yeah.
21:47 Holly Frey? I, I find it funny that she thought the books that made her most famous were kind of like, I'm just doing this so I have money to make art. Um, that kind of tickles me a little bit. I love it.
21:59 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
22:00 Holly Frey? I, I kind of love her. She's, uh, she's wild. I can't imagine being as confident as her.
22:06 Tracy V. Wilson? Whew. No.
22:07 Holly Frey? She just had no hesitation about how great she thought she was, which is wonderful, uh, but not something I can identify with. So, oh, Wanda, please give us strength in these times going forward. Uh, if this is your weekend coming up, I hope that you can invoke a little bit about, of that Wanda Gog spirit and advocate for yourself and be confident in yourself. And know that you are very good at some stuff in your life and that, uh, you know, you should, you should be able to make your own decisions and follow, follow your, your own conscience as to what is best. I also hope everything goes smoothly for you and that people are nice to you and that you are nice to people in return.
22:49 Holly Frey? We've got to take care of ourselves and each other. If you have medical things and you can get them screened, please get them screened. Do it for me. Tell your doctor Holly said so. Uh, we will be right back here tomorrow with a classic episode and then on Monday with something brand new.
23:08 Holly Frey? Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
23:24 Speaker 01 Snoring, gasping for air during sleep, daytime sleepiness? I'm Shaquille O'Neal, and this shouldn't be anybody's experience. Ask your doctor about Zepbound Trisepatide, the first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea in adults with obesity.
23:40 Speaker 02 Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15-milligram injection. Zepbound contains trisepatide and should not be used with other trisepatide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction.
24:25 Speaker 02 Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia, if you're nursing, pregnant, plant-to-be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems.
24:47 Speaker 01 Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979, or visit zepbound.lily.com.
24:54 Holly Frey? A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
25:25 Tracy V. Wilson? You ever show up late to the game and your friends already saved your seat, your drink, even a plate? That's looking out. That's having your And that's exactly what AT&T does with the AT&T guarantee. They know staying connected matters, so they actually guarantee a network that comes through when it counts. AT&T has connectivity you can depend on, or they'll proactively make it right, just like that friend who takes care of things before you even ask. AT&T: Connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details.
26:01 Speaker 02 Live Right, publishers of John U. Bacon's New York Times bestseller, The Gales of November, a chronicle of the S.S. Edmund Fitzgerald's 1975 shipwreck. Never has it been told better than by Mr. Bacon in this colorful book, writes John J. Miller of The Wall Street Journal, while author Hampton Sides proclaims that it's destined to be a classic. The Gales of November, now in paperback.
26:28 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
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