Our Favorite Things, 2025

It’s that time of year when Leah, Melissa, and Kate put on their influencer hats and recommend the things that made their days a little brighter in 2025. This year, they’re joined by two special guests: rockstar Strict Scrutiny intern Jordan Thomas to share some of his picks, and former Chair of the Federal Election Commission Ellen Weintraub to discuss two of democracy’s favorite things—independent agencies and the regulation of money in politics. Favorite things: WANT Leah: Cozy Earth Bubble Cuddle Blanket https://cozyearth.com/products/lush-faux-fur-blanket?variant=43644160540852, Jones Road Just Enough Tinted Moisturizer https://www.jonesroadbeauty.com/products/just-enough-tinted-moisturizer?srsltid=AfmBOoo1wKr4mXPaw2mBUcjvfZZCMnEF4NEfKAgWFO58GHXhUEWP5RvO Kate: Aventura electric scooter https://aventura-x.com/, Grüns Superfood Greens Gummies https://gruns.co/pages/first-order#offers?nbt=nb%3Aadwords%3Ag%3A21061399638%3A159698636821%3A700531326123&nb_adtype=&nb_kwd=gruns%20gummy&nb_ti=kwd-2245626740539&nb_mi=&nb_pc=&nb_pi=&nb_ppi=&nb_placement=&nb_li_ms=&nb_lp_ms=&nb_fii=&nb_ap=&nb_mt=e&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=&utm_term=gruns%20gummy&utm_content=700531326123&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21061399638&gbraid=0AAAAAp051cDnvSm_bDwDkRrRmm9paaTWf&gclid=CjwKCAiAl-_JBhBjEiwAn3rN7XGg_dzFT2Ptq3RjcNrCFoqF-B1GBSVi1bgSFTNE-1pCLkBxP24AABoC22MQAvD_BwE Melissa: True Botanicals https://truebotanicals.com/, e.l.f. Camo Liquid Blush https://www.elfcosmetics.com/camo-liquid-blush/300234.html?srsltid=AfmBOoqQprG2pCzGz6xyQRmSqwe8MpFHKqxa1LyHfgjzG8Go5HwByj2k Jordan: Tea Tree Leave-In Conditioner https://www.paulmitchell.com/products/lavender-mint-conditioning-leave-in-spray, Pink Oil Moisturizer https://lusterproducts.com/products/pink-oil-moisturizer?srsltid=AfmBOooRO9sTSjrDtVMfUjp33wzTTPdPsgZSVM8Ragj_7kVwaZm7BWpf, NEED Leah: Peloton stretching classes https://www.onepeloton.com/classes/stretching, Farmhounds https://farmhounds.com/?srsltid=AfmBOopZtoxuI4gPTYXnxhFbq5FETNMmaBDjvg12E2DYhYtJqzlZtflS dog treats; Badlands Ranch https://badlandsranch.com/products/ dog food Kate: custom bobbleheads https://www.bobbleheads.com/custom-bobbleheads/products?srsltid=AfmBOorxv9DaMwvggeeWyHgVz_3JFUoTstddcTwVYQkl2lHzCxheJv0_ & action figures https://www.etsy.com/market/custom_action_figure, Lilly Allen’s tour https://lilyallenmusic.com/tour/, Strict Scrutiny’s upcoming West Coast tour https://crooked.com/events/ Melissa: Caddis readers https://caddislife.com/collections/eye-appliances, Blackwing Matte pencils https://blackwing602.com/products/blackwing-set-of-12?srsltid=AfmBOoo7h_Y0YbXahkIAS9N3sBLEg8JChNukCvsq75gpX6sp9Vsfg2l6, As Ever Rosé https://wine.asever.com/products/2024-napa-valley-rose Jordan: 2026 Evanescence https://www.evanescence.com/evanescence-shows/ and Korn https://kornofficial.com/ tours, these headphones https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09BHXKNBB?ref=cm_sw_r_cso_cp_apin_dp_Q1WBCBQVHX5P4Y364SV8_1&ref_=cm_sw_r_cso_cp_apin_dp_Q1WBCBQVHX5P4Y364SV8_1&social_share=cm_sw_r_cso_cp_apin_dp_Q1WBCBQVHX5P4Y364SV8_1&titleSource=true&rsd=z7X7LS6lrQhkaRarLJVzJpzoSXXg1w8MSRBo8s4ckTr%2FasDBQxeo0IyuNVpkXt9EmYmYQtxV9HbaqxpV%2BszzvM%2FMa5BcYimcaW0yWdvxk23uAIxqKnV24w%3D%3D&edk=AQIDAHgZbAtVUtOwTOPkU6A%2Ft3uWZOdoM9ev8P9m78HNnFxQqQHnoWRsV4e8zSLQvgpsLwRtAAAAfjB8BgkqhkiG9w0BBwagbzBtAgEAMGgGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMiVsCLZtuXfjN3t4aAgEQgDtCmxmjvYsFavQqD5hAIK7T6HbV8%2BmsjYhZLtxGvVxVLZzf9RCRt282FFWfREIdeQoaBkswuF7xqBz42A%3D%3D&th=1 WEAR Leah: Forme Power Bra https://forme.science/collections/bras/products/power-bra?variant=48350584439015, Argent https://argentwork.com/, TheRealReal https://www.therealreal.com/ Kate: Strict Scrutiny onesies https://store.crooked.com/collections/strict-scrutiny?srsltid=AfmBOoqGT4SDBVfvjIX0MM1bL-WGG7rnuKeOiYHo18R85lNvJ9sI9D_b, Cozy Earth Studio Wide Leg Pant https://cozyearth.com/products/womens-studio-wide-leg-pant?srsltid=AfmBOooriRJuJEa97PjWTtC7GJGnMj3mXPJiKrn1bcng_XGh5NAZF4Ak&variant=43831646191796 Melissa: Quince yak wool sweaters https://www.quince.com/women/sweaters-&-jackets/yak-wool-sweater-collection?srsltid=AfmBOooKqdVsm_MMb0hSYnBwZpYrmaRjUgtlp93gJt2I9Kr075eOhE4o, Uniqlo White T-Shirt, https://www.uniqlo.com/us/en/products/E424873-000/00?colorDisplayCode=00&sizeDisplayCode=003Clearly Collective Collegiate Scarves https://www.theclearlycollective.com/collections/collegiate-collection, WaySoft Cashmere Beanie https://www.amazon.com/WaySoft-Cashmere-Beanie-Oversized-Perfect/dp/B079PSRLH3/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?adgrpid=185786425665&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.hEKrejSKc6s0bwitLaaOzcTr1BvA9T871zBhasZT5smzZKn2cjYjFwDCa1sP7gBBJyvi_Klw7NtakV7zo4_rjL3vzVD-SgrQ9jMoKXAiFJ-iVUT0BZZRlctSRJvQG-oQeRwOJPScuh0qHPDOqYVZTHug2m5_Bw2Ndcp-Jz0MCFq3xsybwbG-K3GJeIFUL1aHQQKxY105HcvRyDO75wu2LRO9SdbeSCyi49zebXZ2vGlvdawWScBm4QQvIPAPyGBEnD4dJCUjH0CyQxo099VROeco4GbwLXS-A9MUp1q3GYU.si8N6XU-xqtM8YQRPoQA44WRZqFHm62k2z0vEpgv6Bo&dib_tag=se&hvadid=779675984336&hvdev=c&hvexpln=0&hvlocphy=9030964&hvnetw=g&hvocijid=14049909002323224543--&hvqmt=e&hvrand=14049909002323224543&hvtargid=kwd-594913276972&hydadcr=7250_13535765_2063567&keywords=waysoft%2Bcashmere%2Bbeanie&mcid=01238027367a338a9d6da8cad5ef975e&qid=1765583375&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1&psc=1 Jordan: Crooked Con Merch https://store.crooked.com/products/freedom-and-content-for-all-crewneck?_pos=3&_sid=c11b806b5&_ss=r, Mavi jeans https://us.mavi.com/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=%28ROI%29%20BR%20-%20Mavi%20Core%20Branded%20-%20Exact%20-%20Mavi%20Jeans&utm_id=1569115668&utm_content=59701491992&utm_term=mavi%20jeans&tw_source=google&tw_adid=393138908126&tw_campaign=1569115668&tw_kwdid=kwd-79407111&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=1569115668&gbraid=0AAAAADpHyVI1rQxTMoCw6TrXBrZVQUUq3&gclid=CjwKCAiAl-_JBhBjEiwAn3rN7WweOIO5MooTtuAtbOjWjYpIetSCT5YUrNc4TaKAKeGBp8bK2ekG4RoCZrYQAvD_BwE READ Leah: The Wedding People https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-wedding-people-a-novel-alison-espach/2a6b95a3104be2ea?ean=9781250899576&next=t, Alison Espach; Julie Anne Long https://bookshop.org/beta-search?keywords=Julie+Anne+Long’s Pennyroyal Green series; Lisa Kleypas https://bookshop.org/beta-search?keywords=Lisa+Kleypas’ Wallflowers series; These Summer Storms https://bookshop.org/p/books/these-summer-storms-a-novel-sarah-maclean/b7d9a29f7c2e1444?ean=9780593972250&next=t, Sarah MacLean; Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil https://bookshop.org/p/books/bury-our-bones-in-the-midnight-soil-v-e-schwab/f9e86c5bd3f3c1ef?ean=9781250320520&next=t, V. E. Schwab; The God of the Woods https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-god-of-the-woods-a-novel-liz-moore/c3cbf4f80cbe4a47?ean=9780593418918&next=t, Liz Moore; Book of the Month https://www.bookofthemonth.com/ Kate: The Power Broker https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-power-broker-robert-moses-and-the-fall-of-new-york-robert-a-caro/d422fb89e9efb810?ean=9780394720241&next=t, Robert Caro; Who Is Government? https://bookshop.org/p/books/who-is-government-the-untold-story-of-public-service-michael-lewis/b38857a5bb6d03ad?ean=9798217047802&next=t Michael Lewis; Character Limit: How Elon Musk Destroyed Twitter https://bookshop.org/p/books/character-limit-how-elon-musk-destroyed-twitter-kate-conger/cdc93673041a1b05?ean=9780593656136&next=t, Kate Conger & Ryan Mac; The Radical Fund https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-radical-fund-how-a-band-of-visionaries-and-a-million-dollars-upended-america-john-fabian-witt/7035d63ad6991b72?ean=9781476765877&next=t, John Fabian Witt; Isola https://bookshop.org/p/books/isola-allegra-goodman/e4b752959a9edd47?ean=9780593730089&next=t, Allegra Goodman; Heart the Lover https://bookshop.org/p/books/heart-the-lover-lily-king/3bd6eeb2f9e33f03?ean=9780802165176&next=t, Lily King; Martyr! https://bookshop.org/p/books/martyr-a-novel-kaveh-akbar/69276aba766162ab?ean=9780593685778&next=t Kaveh Akbar; The History of Sound https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-history-of-sound-stories-ben-shattuck/3dac0eecf4d49bd0?ean=9780593490402&next=t, Ben Shattuck Melissa: Matriarch https://bookshop.org/p/books/matriarch-oprah-s-book-club-a-memoir-tina-knowles/25544023f035d0f9?ean=9780593597408&next=t, Tina Knowles; Black in Blues: How a Color Tells the Story of My People https://bookshop.org/p/books/black-in-blues-how-a-color-tells-the-story-of-my-people-imani-perry/723bb594768ba5db?ean=9780062977397&next=t, Imani Perry; Jane Austen's Bookshelf https://bookshop.org/p/books/jane-austen-s-bookshelf-a-rare-book-collector-s-quest-to-find-the-women-writers-who-shaped-a-legend-rebecca-romney/c0d2e5652fa044b0?ean=9781982190248&next=t, Rebecca Romney; Atmosphere https://bookshop.org/p/books/untitled-8715/72852333144840f3?ean=9780593158715&next=t, Taylor Jenkins Reid; The Book Club for Troublesome Women https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-book-club-for-troublesome-women-marie-bostwick/43e8796ab84502f6?ean=9781400344741&next=t, Marie Bostwick; The Loneliness of Sonia and Sunny https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-loneliness-of-sonia-and-sunny-a-novel-kiran-desai/93c3b6b087428748?ean=9780307700155&next=t, Kiran Desai Jordan: Lawless https://bookshop.org/p/books/lawless-how-the-supreme-court-runs-on-conservative-grievance-fringe-theories-and-bad-vibes-leah-litman/5b562d6fcb316d6e?ean=9781668054628&next=t, Leah Litman; The Sirens' Call https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-sirens-call-how-attention-became-the-world-s-most-endangered-resource-chris-hayes/4df976ee7b35f6a8?ean=9780593653111&next=t, Chris Hayes; Bad Law https://bookshop.org/p/books/bad-law-ten-popular-laws-that-are-ruining-america-elie-mystal/768b049cbb747ca5?ean=9781620978580&next=t, Elie Mystal; Charles Sumner: Conscience of a Nation https://bookshop.org/p/books/charles-sumner-conscience-of-a-nation-zaakir-tameez/06feaaf91dde87ff?ean=9781250362551&next=t, Zaakir Tameez; Just Shine! How to Be a Better You https://bookshop.org/p/books/just-shine-how-to-be-a-better-you-sonia-sotomayor/800fddf9a728c8db?ean=9780593206294&next=t, Sonia Sotomayor Ellen: Deanna Raybourn’s Veronica Speedwell Mysteries https://www.deannaraybourn.com/book_series/veronica-speedwell-mystery/; Everyone in My Family Has Killed Someone https://bookshop.org/p/books/everyone-in-my-family-has-killed-someone-a-novel-benjamin-stevenson/820da91a518ad8b7?ean=9780063279025&next=t&, Benjamin Stevenson; The Black Wolf https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-black-wolf-a-novel-louise-penny/bd14610c9d2f304d?ean=9781250328175&next=t, Louise Penny; Shakespeare: The Man Who Pays the Rent https://libro.fm/audiobooks/9781250333117-shakespeare-the-man-who-pays-the-rent?bookstore=bookshoporg, Judi Dench; This Is Happiness https://bookshop.org/p/books/this-is-happiness-niall-williams/73766bf0eb487f1c?ean=9781635576313&next=t, Niall Williams; Elizabeth Strout https://bookshop.org/beta-search?keywords=elizabeth+strout; Amor Towles https://bookshop.org/beta-search?keywords=Amor+Towles Get tickets for STRICT SCRUTINY LIVE – The Bad Decisions Tour 2025! 3/6/26 – San Francisco 3/7/26 – Los Angeles Learn more: http://crooked.com/events Order your copy of Leah's book, Lawless: How the Supreme Court Runs on Conservative Grievance, Fringe Theories, and Bad Vibes https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Lawless/Leah-Litman/9781668054628 Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/strictscrutinypodcast/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@strictscrutinypodcast, and Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/strictscrutiny.bsky.social

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Melissa Murray?

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• 0:41Melissa Murray?

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• 1:26Melissa Murray?

  After switching to Smalls, 88% of cat owners reported overall health improvements. That is a big deal. The team at Smalls is so confident that your cat will love their products that they have allowed you to try it risk free. That means you try it and they will refund you if your cat won't eat their food. So what are you waiting for? Give the cats in your life the food that they deserve. For a limited time, because you are an avid strict scrutiny listener, you can get 60% off your first order plus free shipping. Just head over to Smalls.com/strict. One last time, that's 60% off your first order of Smalls plus free shipping when you head to Smalls.com/strict.

• 2:11Speaker 01

  Mr. Chief Justice, may it please the Court. It's an old joke, but when a hardy man argues against two beautiful ladies like this, they're going to have the last word.

• 2:24Speaker 02

  She spoke not elegantly, but with unmistakable clarity. She said, "I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks."

• 2:54Kate Shaw?

  Hello and welcome back to Strict Scrutiny, your podcast about the Supreme Court and the legal culture that surrounds it. We are your hosts. I'm Kate Shaw.

• 3:00Leah Litman?

  I'm Leah Litman.

• 3:01Melissa Murray?

  And I'm Melissa Murray. And it's that time of the year again. Here at Strict Scrutiny, we have many traditions. One of them is talking about Sam Alito's skin and his purported skincare regime. Another is talking about Brett Kavanaugh's intellect. And another is just generally calling the court out on its BS. But another tradition, which we always do in the festive season, is our Favorite Things episode. It's just like Oprah's Favorite Things, only with lawless courts. It's amazing.

• 3:33Kate Shaw?

  So if that sounds confusing, here is how it works. We just kind of go around with some gift giving and gift soliciting ideas. And then we also touch on a few of our other favorite things with kind of random banter, some of it, but not all of it SCOTUS related in the mix.

• 3:49Leah Litman?

  And today, we are delighted to be joined by a special guest, someone who is usually behind the microphone slash scenes, not in front of one. That's right. It is our fantastic intern, Jordan Thomas. Welcome to the show, Jordan.

• 4:03Speaker 05

  Thank you for having me. This is super cool. Love to finally be able to contribute in a way that's not just behind the scenes. This is really wonderful.

• 4:10Leah Litman?

  Well, you've been contributing a lot behind the scenes. Jordan is truly the gift who keeps on giving.

• 4:16Kate Shaw?

  He's here because he is one of our favorite things.

• 4:17Leah Litman?

  Exactly. He's literally one of our favorite things. Yes. So, so you can all follow along. The general categories that we talk about in the episode are something you want, something you need, something to wear, and something to read. Do want to note that this last category presumes you can read, Brett, so I'm not sure if we have any picture books to recommend.

• 4:37Melissa Murray?

  Just Pride Puppy.

• 4:40Kate Shaw?

  That is not on. I mean, maybe it should be. It was maligned in the oral argument in Mahmoud.

• 4:45Leah Litman?

  It was unfairly maligned.

• 4:48Kate Shaw?

  Okay, we will then do a little bit of chit chatting about the last year and the next one. And for our final segment, we're going to be joined by returning guest and friend of the show, Ellen Weintraub, a former commissioner on the Federal Election Commission.

• 4:59Leah Litman?

  Because some of our favorite things are what? Separation of powers, agency independence, and campaign finance regulation.

• 5:06Kate Shaw?

  And our favorite things, our least favorite things are what the court is going to do to all of those ideas.

• 5:10Leah Litman?

  Exactly. So let's start with something you want. I'll go first. This is something I have, but you all should want. The Cozy Earth cuddle bubble blanket. It is surreal. It's like this like waffle texture that's super soft. My dog and I fight over it. Like, seriously, Cozy Earth, if you're listening, Stevie should be a model for you. I have so many photos of her wrapped in this blanket. We are all obsessed.

• 5:38Kate Shaw?

  It's a little heavy. You haven't said this. It has like almost a weighted quality to it.

• 5:41Leah Litman?

  Right. No, that's part of like the waffle thing that I meant to convey. Yeah, no, it's slightly heavier than your average blanket, but still soft. It's just excellent. And something else. So Jones Road, I know their like most famous product is the Miracle Balm. I love their tinted moisturizer. It's the only tinted moisturizer that feels more like moisturizer and less like foundation to me and like isn't oily. And I just love it.

• 6:06Kate Shaw?

  So I'm also going to mention a couple of things that I have and that you might need. Okay, the first is an electric scooter. So think Vespa, but kind of off brand. So there are now some Vespa competitors. And one of them is Aventura. And I don't mean to disparage it by calling it off brand. It's just not a, you know, like Vespa is a pretty famous Italian company. So Aventura is an American company. They're making these electric scooters that look just like Vespas, like if you kind of like squint. But the basic outline is the same. It is fully electric. So there is a big square battery that you just bring into your house and plug into a wall. So you don't have to like go to a separate charging station. And it's not a hybrid. It's like purely electric. And the

• 6:47Kate Shaw?

  price point is for a scooter, like way, way, way, way less than a Vespa. Some of them are like under $2,000 or $3,000. And this is like a, you know, baby motorcycle. This is like a thing that will transport you all around New York City where I live. And it is actually amazing if you live in a place where you need to go like a mile or two or three with stuff. So you can't like walk fast or jog necessarily comfortably. And there just are not necessarily subway stations between point A and point B. Transport my older children to the bus and subway stops on the scooter. And it's just kind of an amazing way to get around New York City. So wanted to shout out that company, which has been great so far. And then very different is I was at my book club recently and like, for some reason,

• 7:30Kate Shaw?

  somebody asked for people's recommendations about the supplements they were taking. And there was a lot of endorsement of gruns or gruuns. I don't even know how you say it, like superfood vitamins, which are these like little gummy bear packets with like nine gummy bears that you're supposed to take every day. So you get to eat a lot of vitamins in the form of gummy bears daily. I'm not totally sure, like I feel any health effects yet, but they're pretty delicious. And it's kind of awesome to be taking gummy bears for quasi medicinal purposes. So those might be something that you need too. Are either of you into the superfood, like gruns, vitamins yet? Leah, Melissa, Jordan, I assume you are not.

• 8:04Melissa Murray?

  You made me take some on the road to.

• 8:07Kate Shaw?

  Oh, yeah, I gave you a pack on the Amtrak. What'd you think?

• 8:10Melissa Murray?

  And then remember I had an amazing headache and was just like really totally effed up before our show. Do you remember that?

• 8:17Kate Shaw?

  I think that I.

• 8:18Melissa Murray?

  I remember you being effed up.

• 8:20Kate Shaw?

  To the vitamins?

• 8:21Melissa Murray?

  I don't know. Should I try again? I mean, I don't want to.

• 8:25Kate Shaw?

  Maybe not before a live show.

• 8:27Melissa Murray?

  I think, well, I mean, Leah, she pushed them on me so hard. I thought like she was like it was Molly or something.

• 8:37Kate Shaw?

  It was vitamins, Melissa.

• 8:39Leah Litman?

  This sounds like Katie Heron's entry in the burn book for Miss.

• 8:43Melissa Murray?

  She was a pusher.

• 8:44Leah Litman?

  Saying she's a pusher.

• 8:46Melissa Murray?

  She was a pusher.

• 8:48Kate Shaw?

  All right, you're not ready to endorse. I share them with our listeners.

• 8:51Melissa Murray?

  I'm gonna try again. In 2026, I'm gonna get my microbiome in check with your gruns.

• 8:57Kate Shaw?

  Sounds good.

• 8:57Melissa Murray?

  I'm gonna get them. Yeah, okay. All right, I'm going to plus one the Cozy Earth Bubble Blanket. I think Cozy Earth that you need to have Cole and Stevie together in a bish poo, golden doodle cuddle off. Like, I think something could happen there. I think it's going to be really cute. He loves the bubble blanket. He's actually fighting my son for it. They go back and forth and sometimes I see Cole kind of trying to drag it out of my son's room, but it's really heavy. So it's just very hard, but it's really cute to watch. Other things that I want, True Botanical Skincare, love it all the time. Low key sure that this is what is keeping Samuel Alito looking so fresh faced.

• 9:41Melissa Murray?

  Or maybe it's just hate. I'd like to think it's True Botanicals, but who knows? But here are some less expensive things. I think we should have a range of different price points here. And I know that True Botanicals can be kind of pricey. Something that I absolutely love that is very accessible, Elf Liquid Camel Blush. Like, you can buy this at Amazon, you can buy it at CVS or Walgreens. It's a liquid blush and you just sort of tap, tap, tap it on your cheekbones and then blend. And it looks like a really sort of natural flush, like, like that you were just embarrassed. It's fantastic. Highly recommend.

• 10:18Speaker 05

  Is it my turn?

• 10:19Leah Litman?

  It is your turn.

• 10:20Kate Shaw?

  Yes, your turn.

• 10:21Melissa Murray?

  Like, and you better bring it, Jordan.

• 10:23Speaker 05

  It's something that I want. I have very long hair. For those of you who are watching on YouTube or elsewhere, you can see I have a gigantic Afro. So hair care is very important to me. And I've recently started experimenting with different forms of hair care as it gets longer. You know, I try to just see how I can keep it looking beautiful and voluminous. And somebody told me that Tea Tree Leave-In Conditioner really keeps it shining and keeps it healthy and long. And so I'm definitely looking into the new Tea Tree brand of leave-in conditioners for those of you with long hair and curly hair. Then I need to moisturize it after I get out the shower. And I love the Pink Moisturizer brand, but I'm running low. So things I want is I need an emergency supply of Pink.

• 11:04Melissa Murray?

  Pink moisturizer is seriously old school, Jordan. Like, that was around when I was in high school.

• 11:09Speaker 05

  Hairstyle, I have an Afro.

• 11:11Melissa Murray?

  I mean.

• 11:12Leah Litman?

  The only people I would take hair advice from are Jordan Thomas and Lisa Barlow. So these are endorsements that are worth having.

• 11:19Melissa Murray?

  I resent that.

• 11:22Leah Litman?

  I resent that. I was going to say to you, Jordan, you should also try Curl Mix, which is great for curly hair. Highly recommend.

• 11:32Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 11:33Leah Litman?

  So next category, something you need. So I was going to recommend the Peloton app stretching classes. I have basically had problems sleeping since, I don't know, November 2024, December 2024. Not sure why, but that's when my insomnia kicked in. And I found that Peloton's evening stretch classes, specifically with Matti Magiakamo, they, I love them. They're so helpful. Like, hip openers really help me relax and like fall asleep. So definitely recommend that. Something you need for the perfect puppy in your life are Farm Hounds dog treats and Badlands

• 12:15Leah Litman?

  Ranch food. My dog is obsessed.

• 12:21Kate Shaw?

  Okay, so I was debating whether to put this in the want or need category, but I decided need. And the thing that I want to put in at the top of my need list is a personalized bobblehead. So is this a moment when I can pull out the personalized bobblehead?

• 12:34Leah Litman?

  It's allowed.

• 12:36Kate Shaw?

  All right. So Leah Litman is the genius behind this personalized bobblehead. Melissa, you've got yours.

• 12:43Leah Litman?

  Jordan has one.

• 12:43Kate Shaw?

  You're at the law school right now. So we didn't tell you to bring the prop. So we will have to post pictures, like stills of all these.

• 12:50Leah Litman?

  We'll have to Photoshop it.

• 12:51Kate Shaw?

  But yeah, so this is my personalized bobblehead, which is on my shelf. It's joining. My bobbleheads right now are John Paul Stevens, David Souter, Barack Obama, and now myself, which I think is a collection I'm pretty happy about.

• 13:03Leah Litman?

  That's the court we've been dreaming of.

• 13:04Kate Shaw?

  Exactly, exactly. We need a fifth vote though, guys. There's four. That's terrible.

• 13:09Leah Litman?

  Melissa, I'm right here.

• 13:11Kate Shaw?

  Okay, I put it out on my bookshelf. Yeah, so that's right. So the court is you, me, John Paul Stevens, David Souter, and Barack Obama.

• 13:17Leah Litman?

  That sounds like a missed opportunity on your part to not have a Melissa Murray bobblehead.

• 13:20Kate Shaw?

  Okay, so actually, that's right. The thing I need is now a bobblehead of my co-hosts, so I can actually have all of us behind me. All right. So that's what I'm gonna work on for next year. And actually, this is the office. I don't usually record in this room. But since I am in here, I'm gonna show you something else I have, which is actually my husband last year. No, no, no. Maybe three years ago, actually, for Christmas, got our whole family these little like action figure dolls made of ourselves. And it was like, it was, I think it was an artist. Actually, no, it wasn't three years. Probably four years ago. Because it was like a kind of COVID creation. There was an artist, you know, people found all kinds of crazy ways to try to make money when everything was shut down. And so this artist, who I think is no longer doing this, was like making these personalized action figures.

• 14:03Kate Shaw?

  And it will go well with my bobblehead. So you can also try to find somebody making those. Okay, quickly, a couple of other things. Lily Allen tickets. We're going in New York. Leah, you're gonna go in DC, right?

• 14:15Leah Litman?

  Oh, yeah. I'm going in DC. I was, I thought I was going in DC with at least one of you who said, I couldn't go to New York. I could go to DC. So I get tickets. And then it's like, oh, no. I can go to New York after all.

• 14:26Kate Shaw?

  I said I couldn't go in DC.

• 14:27Leah Litman?

  And then you find out in front of me. Are you looking at me?

• 14:32Melissa Murray?

  I did do that. That was my damage.

• 14:35Kate Shaw?

  Luckily, you have friends in DC who I know will take those tickets.

• 14:39Melissa Murray?

  I totally, honestly, Leah, I forgot I did that. I can only blame perimenopause.

• 14:44Leah Litman?

  I just reminded you.

• 14:46Kate Shaw?

  All right, last thing, and then I'm gonna turn it over to Melissa. You need T-shirts made by Leah Littman, limited edition T-shirts like this one, streaks through me all along. Can you even, sorry, like, my hair is in the way.

• 14:55Leah Litman?

  You can see it.

• 14:56Kate Shaw?

  Because Leah makes and sometimes gives out these T-shirts at live shows, like the ones we're gonna be doing in California in March. So if you were already thinking about, or maybe even weren't thinking about, but should be thinking about, getting tickets to one of our two live shows, one in San Francisco, one in Los Angeles. Now you know there are potential T-shirt giveaways in the mix. So get those tickets.

• 15:17Leah Litman?

  And I'm pretty sure I'm gonna make just the tip ones.

• 15:20Kate Shaw?

  Oh, wow. That's pretty exciting. Reason enough.

• 15:24Leah Litman?

  Okay.

• 15:29Melissa Murray?

  Strict scrutiny is brought to you by Planned Parenthood. The courts matter, the law matters, but so do the people behind the cases, the patients, the families and the communities that Planned Parenthood serves every day. This year, the attacks on reproductive freedom have been relentless. President Trump and his Congress have defunded Planned Parenthood, a move that harms the health and lives of 1.1 million patients across the United States. Planned Parenthood is in court to keep this disastrous law from taking away healthcare for millions of people, but they urgently need your help. You can rush your gift by visiting PlannedParenthood.org/defend. No matter the size, your donation makes a real difference, helping Planned Parenthood meet this moment

• 16:14Melissa Murray?

  and protect access to care when it matters most, right now. So, don't wait, donate today at PlannedParenthood.org/defend. That's www.PlanedParenthood.org/defend.

• 16:30Speaker 06

  CrookedCon is coming up right after the election, and we have just added a bunch more great names to the lineup. We've got Governor JB Pritzker coming, Senator Chris Murphy, and then over from the House side, Ilhan Omar, Robert Garcia, Sarah Jacobs, Jamie Raskin, Sarah McBride. We also have Carlos Eduardo Espina, Simone Sanders Townsend, Eugene Daniels, David Pakman, Jessica Tarlov, Heather McGee, and then all the other people that we've announced on the website, plus more to come. Great list. Check out the full lineup and get tickets right now at CrookedCon.com. We'd love to see you there. That's CrookedCon.com.

• 17:06Melissa Murray?

  So, things that I need, or learned that I needed this year. So, first up, caddis readers. And yes, folks, macular degeneration is real. If you are an older person, and I am the oldest person on this podcast. So, this year, I got myself some readers, and not just any readers, I got caddis readers. So, these are fashionable. Mine actually are camouflage, and they are very, very cool. And you can get them in all kinds of strengths. You can get them as progressive readers, where you can see over the top and then under. I don't know, they explained it to me some kind of way. Either way, I can read again. It's fantastic. I'm going to recommend it to some of the Republican justices, so they too can read again.

• 17:43Leah Litman?

  So helpful.

• 17:46Melissa Murray?

  So helpful. I'm just the gift that keeps on giving. In addition to those readers, I also love, and I brought a prop, Blackwing Matte Pencils. Like, I don't know about you, but when I start writing an article or whatnot, I like to actually write it down on paper, just the tip. And I love writing with these pencils. It's like a really soft lead. It makes a really nice line. And like, sometimes when I'm doodling, I just like doodle all over my little notes for myself. And I like doing it with a Blackwing Matte Pencil. They're really great. And they have a really cool eraser at the bottom. So highly recommend that. And then, since November 2024, as Leah suggested, it's been really hard, kind of dealing with things. So one

• 18:31Melissa Murray?

  way that I have been dealing, and I don't recommend this, but every now and again, I think it's nice to open a bottle of As Ever Rosé from my someday friend, the other MM, the Duchess of Sussex, Meghan Markle, and have a little glass, like a little tipple.

• 18:49Kate Shaw?

  I'm disappointed you don't have a prop to show us your open bottle.

• 18:52Melissa Murray?

  Um, I actually do.

• 18:54Kate Shaw?

  We didn't even script that. Let me see that bottle.

• 18:58Melissa Murray?

  I would have, like, actually, I forgot. It's actually in the, in the done. But, um, you know, like, it's, it actually is surprisingly good wine that you can buy on the internet. Like, not, it's not all wine you buy on the internet is great, but this is pretty good. I like it. Refreshing.

• 19:13Kate Shaw?

  All right, Jordan, over to you.

• 19:15Speaker 05

  I'll, I'll return back to the theme of tickets. So Lily Allen tickets are, I think, for, you know, those who are fans, hopefully get a chance to, to see her. But I actually, I really like hard rock. And I know that that's a, you know, unusual genre for, for listeners of this podcast. But those of you who are sympathetic, Evanescence just announced a new tour with Spirit Box, and I absolutely love Evanescence. And

• 19:40Melissa Murray?

  Why is he talking about Evanescence like this wasn't a band from the 1990s?

• 19:44Speaker 05

  Not everybody listens to hard rock. Not everybody listens to hard rock. This is not about age.

• 19:49Melissa Murray?

  I'm not sure I would say Evanescence is hard rock. I don't know if that's hard rock.

• 19:52Speaker 05

  You didn't listen to the

• 19:53Kate Shaw?

  I'm listening to the young person's genre.

• 19:54Melissa Murray?

  Okay.

• 19:56Speaker 05

  Evanescence is

• 19:58Melissa Murray?

  That's because you were reading in the 90s, Kate. Like, Leah and I, like, I don't know that Evanescence is hard rock. Do you, what do you think, Leah? I, I say no, but. I say no, too.

• 20:08Speaker 05

  That's fair.

• 20:09Melissa Murray?

  And Jordan.

• 20:11Speaker 05

  I mean, Evanescence, to be fair, I think, aside from Linkin Park is the most mainstream of hard rock bands. When you look at their streams on Spotify, it's basically Linkin Park and Evanescence. So I love that. They have, you know.

• 20:23Melissa Murray?

  I just wonder if maybe the youth have gotten soft, Jordan. Maybe that's what happened. Now it's hard rock, but it wasn't.

• 20:29Speaker 05

  Well, I think that they're adjacent to other bands that I was going to mention, like Sleep Token, Spirit Box, Bad Omens, Architects. Do you know any of these?

• 20:39Melissa Murray?

  Obviously, I do, Jordan.

• 20:41Speaker 05

  Anyway, all of these bands just released new music. They're all going on tour, continuing in 2026. Korn, also a band from the 90s, is going on tour in 2026. So for those of us who are fans of hard rock music, it's just, it's going to be an amazing year of concerts that have just been announced. And I need to get tickets for many of these. I don't know how many I'll actually be able to go to, but I'll try. Aside from that, I'm wearing right now these beautiful set of Sony headphones, and they work very well for me when I need noise cancelling. But what I actually need is there are a pair of behind-the-head headphones called Marathon headphones that don't squish your hair. And so for those of you who have the same problem that I do, that you love to listen to music,

• 21:25Speaker 05

  you're listening to it 24/7, but you need something where you can just sort of, you know, wrap it around your head, good sound quality, and it's not going to mess up your do for the day. They're called Marathon, and I used to have this beautiful pair, and they broke. So I am now studying for law school finals without my go-to headphones, and I desperately need a new pair of Marathon behind-the-neck headphones.

• 21:48Melissa Murray?

  Marathon, if you're listening to this, you can't buy this kind of publicity. I just wanted to know. Send those to the Yale Law School, 124 Wall Street, New Haven, Connecticut, 06511.

• 21:58Kate Shaw?

  Wait, is the brand Marathon, or that's a category of headphones that's...

• 22:01Speaker 05

  It's actually...

• 22:02Kate Shaw?

  Like, are they for running... Are they running headphones?

• 22:03Speaker 05

  No, it's a brand. If you go and you type in Marathon, behind the head, behind-the-neck headphones, they'll pop right up.

• 22:11Leah Litman?

  So something to wear. My first recommendation is the Forma posture bra. And yes, this is the bra that Taylor Swift was photographed in when she was rehearsing for the Eras Tour. And yes, that is why I bought my first one. But it's so good. Like, it actually helps my back.

• 22:32Kate Shaw?

  Does it actually help posture? That's the one that's supposed to give you good posture, right?

• 22:35Leah Litman?

  It helps posture. And seriously, like, it really does help back pain. Like, I love that thing. Really recommend that. And then, so, this last year, you know, we had the good fortune of being dressed by Argent at one of our live shows, and I am now obsessed. I just love their bright colors and like, all of the fun workwear. And yeah, it just like, makes, I don't know, like, work dressing a lot more fun than it ever was. I also still love the RealReal, the outlet. And also, anything Melissa recommends I buy, I end up loving. She is my worst enabler, but her taste is unparalleled.

• 23:20Melissa Murray?

  So can we tell them about a text exchange we have?

• 23:23Leah Litman?

  Yes.

• 23:25Melissa Murray?

  So I got an email update that the Veronica Beard online store was having some kind of Cyber Monday sale where everything was marked down. Some things just 70% off.

• 23:37Leah Litman?

  Crazy.

• 23:38Melissa Murray?

  And so I sent it to Leah, and I noted FYI, the iconic scuba jacket, the scuba dickey jacket, is on sale and heavily discounted. And so Leah, I sent her the precise website for it, the URL. Leah clicks on it, and then a few minutes later, I see like, the dot, dot, dot, she's thinking, and then she's like, which color should I buy, navy or black? And so I said, both.

• 24:05Melissa Murray?

  I was just joking, but I think that I had to go wash dishes or something and I think you bought them. Yeah, I did. Again, you're my worst enabler. I was just joking, though. Wait, have they arrived yet?

• 24:16Leah Litman?

  You were just joking.

• 24:18Melissa Murray?

  They came, though, and you love them, right? I do. That's great. They're gonna go with everything. You're gonna have them forever. Yeah. All right, my turn? Your turn. Okay, so I am quince-pilled, as you know, and quince, I think, is well-known for its very accessible cashmere, but do not sleep on the yak wool sweaters. Now, I know you're thinking, Melissa, yak wool does not sound terribly appealing. I, too, was a yak wool skeptic, but I recently purchased one of these sweaters and it's surprisingly soft. It's even more accessible than the cashmere and it's the perfect length for layering with

• 24:59Melissa Murray?

  like a white t-shirt and then wearing with like corduroys and your sambas. It's like the perfect lounging around outfit. And I think they're actually very, very durable. They don't pill. I really like it. Highly, highly recommend. Also want to recommend the Uniqlo White Tee. It has a great, really close collar if you want to wear it under suits and whatnot. Also looks good if you're wearing a crew neck. They're so cheap. They're like $14 at Uniqlo and you can buy them online. You can buy them in the store. Highly, highly recommend. Also really enjoy the Clearly Collective Collegiate Scarf Collection. So if you are an alumna of, I don't know, the University of Virginia, there is a scarf in orange and

• 25:41Melissa Murray?

  blue, the University of Virginia's colors, with the rotunda on it and the lawn. And if you go to some other schools, I don't know, like the University of North Carolina, I guess, they have scarves for you, too, in whatever your dumb colors are. Anyway. We welcome our UNC listeners, just to be clear, Melissa. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. We love UNC. They're so great. Anyway, so highly recommend those. And right now, because it's getting cold in New York, I have longed for a hat that will not mess up my pixie. And I found the Way Soft Cashmere Beanie on Amazon. It's a little pricey. It's about $65. Like for a hat, you might lose, so you gotta hold

• 26:21Melissa Murray?

  on to it. But it's really oversized, so it doesn't push your hair down and it keeps your... Quaffure in good shape and you just like take off the hat and just like sort of fluff your hair and you're fine again. Highly recommend.

• 26:34Kate Shaw?

  Great. I need more like Melissa enabling kind of shopping in my life. I just don't. I almost never buy anything.

• 26:42Melissa Murray?

  I do text you things and you don't respond.

• 26:44Kate Shaw?

  Yes, okay, because I'm, don't stop doing it. I'm receptive. I just am sometimes indecisive. But I do think like at least

• 26:52Melissa Murray?

  Just give me your credit card.

• 26:53Kate Shaw?

  The t-shirts I wear. My friend Isa is always saying that, just like, just let me just go shopping for you. But I would say half the shirts I wear on my body are like ones designed by Leah. It's just like, they're great. So I will re-recommend Leah Litman t-shirts of the world. Our merch store on the website for the podcast, the Strict Scrutiny merch, now has at least two baby onesies in the collection. That is new, so.

• 27:14Melissa Murray?

  And she loves wearing those too.

• 27:16Kate Shaw?

  I personally do not. And yet, something to wear is the general category we are in. And I have a tiny new baby nephew. I only hesitated because I was like, I was, I think it was going to be, I'm buying him, or I ordered him a couple of these, but I don't think his parents listen to my podcast, so I think it's fine. I'm not going to ruin the surprise. But if you have babies in your life, get some of our onesies. And then the last is, since we talked about Cozy Earth, which is the maker of that bubble blanket we were talking about, they also make really nice clothing. And I have a pair of their studio wide leg pants that are just like at home pajama kind of trouser pants that I often do also wear out of the house. And they are so soft and so comfortable and I am completely obsessed with them. And this conversation is making me remember. I've worn them so much, they're getting a little afraid at the bottom. I should probably get another pair. I love them.

• 28:01Melissa Murray?

  You know where they're great for wearing?

• 28:02Kate Shaw?

  Where?

• 28:04Melissa Murray?

  To the airport.

• 28:04Kate Shaw?

  I wear them on the Amtrak. See, I usually take the train.

• 28:06Melissa Murray?

  Stick it to Sean Duffy. No, no. When you want to stick it to Sean Duffy.

• 28:11Kate Shaw?

  No, because they're also cute. They don't look schlubby. They actually look.

• 28:14Melissa Murray?

  They are, they don't look schlubby, but they are, I don't think women are allowed to wear pants in that world.

• 28:19Kate Shaw?

  Oh, there's that too. Yeah, it should be skirts and heels.

• 28:21Melissa Murray?

  Like you will be sticking it to him. You're in your loungewear and your loungewear is pants and you are a lady.

• 28:25Kate Shaw?

  Good point. All right, Jordan, you're up.

• 28:28Speaker 05

  I'll double down on the strict scrutiny gear. It's basically all I wear these days.

• 28:32Kate Shaw?

  That's awesome.

• 28:33Speaker 05

  My beautiful, lawless hoodie right now and can never get enough of it. I also want Crooked gear. I was at Crooked Con, one of the highlights of the year for sure, but by the time that I went to try to get merch, they actually had closed a merch stand, which is very unfortunate.

• 28:48Kate Shaw?

  We are gonna fix this. We're gonna hook you up with some gear. That is good to know.

• 28:51Speaker 05

  But I did see online, you know, follow Crooked on Instagram and all your social media channels. And I saw that you can actually go online and get some of the merch that was at Crooked Con. So if you, like me, missed your chance to get merch, something to wear is to go on to the Crooked site and look at their store. They have a very robust offering of items that I hope to get and to wear. Aside from strict scrutiny or Crooked gear, I need a new set of jeans and I love dark wash jeans. I love the look of them. You can pair them with most types of outfits and you can sort of wear them down, wear them up. And so I'm in the market for dark wash jeans and I love this brand called Mavi Jeans. So something to wear, they have a nice dark wash style. They have a darker sort of off gray,

• 29:33Speaker 05

  black, if you're into that, you know, for the goth people amongst us, or if you're just looking for something to pair with a nice sort of top that needs a black bottom. Mavi Jeans are amazing. They look great. They feel great. I need some Mavi Jeans.

• 29:46Melissa Murray?

  Can I ask a question, Jordan?

• 29:48Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 29:48Melissa Murray?

  Is it Mavi? M-A-V-I?

• 29:50Speaker 05

  M-A-V-I. Mavi Jeans.

• 29:53Melissa Murray?

  That's from the 90s, Jordan. Like, all of your pics are from the 90s.

• 29:56Speaker 05

  I'm an old soul.

• 29:58Kate Shaw?

  We're learning something important about you, Jordan.

• 30:00Speaker 05

  I'm an old soul.

• 30:03Melissa Murray?

  Are we gonna say that when we were in high school?

• 30:05Leah Litman?

  Are we gonna say that when we were in high school?

• 30:06Melissa Murray?

  Old school, old soul? Yeah, Jordan, this feels very... Let's noodle over that one.

• 30:10Kate Shaw?

  But he's actually in his 20s.

• 30:12Speaker 05

  I wear Mavi Jeans, I use pink moisturizer, I listen to Evanescence and Third Eye Blind. What can I say, Melissa?

• 30:18Kate Shaw?

  This is great. This is why we get along so well.

• 30:20Melissa Murray?

  Jordan, basically, you're a 50-year-old woman, is what you're saying.

• 30:23Speaker 05

  I'm fine with that.

• 30:25Leah Litman?

  Love it. Okay, so one quick addendum before on to something to read. I am wearing this cardigan that Melody got me for my birthday and I'm obsessed. It's a secret cardigan because Taylor hasn't actually made a reputation cardigan, but this is a reputation cardigan and I love it. Okay, so on something to read, I am only going to recommend fiction. So Alison S. Bach, Wedding People, anything by Julianne Long. I especially enjoyed the Penny Royal Green series.

• 31:00Leah Litman?

  Lisa Claypos, The Wallflower series is my favorite. I love Sarah McLain's, The Summer Storms, V. E. Schwab's, Bury My Bones in the Midnight Soil, Liz Moore, God of the Woods, all just fantastic books. You can get them all at bookshop.org and support your local independent bookstores. I also joined Book of the Month, which I really like. Just gift that keeps on giving. You know, you get to select a different book every month from among their great recommendations. It's just super fun. Also in the category of fiction, something I wanted to highlight is the conservative slash Republican justices on the Wisconsin Supreme Court, their fiction, just like making shit up. So by way of background, quickly, the Wisconsin Supreme Court appointed some three judge panels

• 31:45Leah Litman?

  to hear challenges to the state's court adopted congressional map. That sounds weird, just let it slide. You know, when the court was still conservative slash Republican controlled, they adopted a congressional map. You know, the procedural posture isn't worth getting into right now, but the court adopted the map and said it complied with the constitution. Now some plaintiffs are challenging the map, which is an extreme partisan gerrymander. You know, the map was drawn using the state legislature's extreme partisan gerrymander as a jumping off point. Anyways, several of the conservative justices on the court had an absolute fucking melty and got big mad when the Supreme Court appointed these panels to hear these challenges. And apparently they were so out of their minds, they hallucinated quotes from Supreme Court opinions.

• 32:27Leah Litman?

  So Justice Ziegler, for example, quoted the United States Supreme Court opinion in Moore versus Harper in saying that state courts' role in congressional redistricting Is quote exceedingly limited end quote. That quote does not appear in Moore and Justice Ziegler has since modified her opinion, but in ways that are nonsensical. So now her opinion says state court's role in congressional redistricting is exceedingly limited and cites Moore, but it cites the passage in Moore that just says state courts may not transgress the ordinary bounds of judicial review in election cases, i.e. that they have a normal role. You know, the opinion is laced with accusations. It, you know, has many different sections, including a part titled A Pattern of Partisan Judicial Activism. Justice Rebecca Bradley also has a dissent and since I love my girl Rebecca Bradley

• 33:12Leah Litman?

  had to read a line or two from it, quote, I'll just go with the ending. The majority nevertheless entertains yet another kick at the redistricting cat. Unlike Schrodinger's cat, this one most assuredly has been dead for years. I dissent. End quote. Girl, this one did not work. You know, you got to do a wolf, not a cat. Right? She missed the memo.

• 33:34Leah Litman?

  Their opinion. Even in the right family. Exactly. Exactly. Like, these opinions have big, like, we are infallible because we are final energy. Like, how dare you criticize us? But a challenge to this map could undo one of the worst Republican leading partisan gerrymanders in the country. So definitely a case to watch.

• 33:52Kate Shaw?

  Okay, I'm going to be a little shorter. No shade, Leah, that was great, but I don't have a lot of long quotes from unhinged state Supreme Court justices to read.

• 34:00Leah Litman?

  As I said, fiction.

• 34:03Kate Shaw?

  Okay, so nonfiction, I'm just going to do a little bit. I had hoped to be able to say on this pod, I finally finished treating Robert Caro as the power broker, but I cannot say an untrue thing and I am so close and yet I am not done. So I really hope that by the time we get to 2026's favorite things and hopefully well before I will be able to say I'm really done with it. But it's amazing. It's just so fucking long, but I'm inside of the finish line. Other kind of nonfiction books that stuck with me this year, Michael Lewis's Who Is Government? The Elon Musk biography by Kate Conger and Ryan Mac called Character Limit was really, really good. John Witt's The Radical Fund, we had John on the show to talk about it. Those kind of really stuck with me from the last year. And just a couple of fiction books to recommend or re-recommend.

• 34:47Kate Shaw?

  Allegra Goodman's Isola, so beautiful.

• 34:51Kate Shaw?

  Lily King's Heart the Lover, which I've already recommended, Cave Akbar's Martyr, and Ben Shattuck's short story collection, The History of Sound, every single short story in that collection, which is not my genre. Like, I'm not a short story fan normally, but I absolutely adored these short stories.

• 35:06Melissa Murray?

  All right. Nonfiction, Tina Knowles's Matriarch. Loved it. I know everyone thinks it's just a little Destiny's Child confessional, but there's actually a lot of Black history. She talks a lot about her childhood, growing up in Galveston in this very tightly knit Black community, her work in Houston, how she basically transformed her daughter into one of the world's biggest pop sensations. So, yeah, like, Miss Tina is doing all the things, and you should definitely get on that. I also loved Amani Perry's Black in Blues. Amani Perry is a former law professor, now she's just a professor, not just a professor

• 35:47Melissa Murray?

  at Princeton, but she's left the law game. And she's just crushing it. She's one of the most formidable thinkers, I think, of our time. She wrote this fantastic book, South to America. This is the follow-up, Black in Blues, where she talks about the linkages between Blackness and the color blue. So there's a lot of meditation on the blues, obviously, but also Black Blue, and what it means to have color in the absence of color. She's a wonderful writer, a serious thinker, and someone that should be on everyone's radar. Some of you know that my favorite author is Jane Austen, and so I really enjoyed Rebecca Romney's Jane Austen's Bookshelf, which are like, all the things that Jane Austen and her sister Cassandra used to read as they were exchanging letters. And she

• 36:32Melissa Murray?

  was basically being a petty bitch, writing stuff about people in her village. And like, that's my energy. And so I enjoy it. I enjoy Jane Austen. I love her petty vibe and highly enjoyed this book. In terms of fiction, I think Leah, you like this one, too. I really enjoyed Taylor Jenkin Reed's Atmosphere, which is a 19, a book. I guess you might call it historical fiction because it takes place in the 1980s as the space program is sort of just getting off in terms of the shuttle program. And it's about a group of astronauts. You might like this, Jordan, since it takes place in the past. There's also Marie Bostwick's The Book Club for Troublesome Women. I picked that up because I thought it was about our podcast, but it really wasn't.

• 37:17Melissa Murray?

  It was about something else, but I enjoyed it a lot. And then I also really want to recommend The Loneliness of Sonia and Sunny by Karen Desai. It was shortlisted for the Booker Prize. I personally think it should have won. I thought this was one of the best books of the year. So before we go to Jordan, Kate and Melissa, any other nonfiction books you especially enjoyed?

• 37:37Kate Shaw?

  Oh, geez, that was this year. Everyone, everyone.

• 37:41Melissa Murray?

  I mean, I thought that was obvious.

• 37:43Kate Shaw?

  I know. And Jordan actually gets the gold medal for wearing the sweatshirt. But Leah Litman's Lawless is a book that was-

• 37:50Melissa Murray?

  How do you know we weren't seeding just Jordan to talk about it? How do you know that? Maybe you pulled the trigger too soon. Maybe you're giving it to the intern.

• 37:57Kate Shaw?

  Because he is an excellent hype man, but also-

• 38:01Melissa Murray?

  I wanted you two on the spot and not him.

• 38:03Kate Shaw?

  Yes, but I think he probably would have done it organically, but yes.

• 38:05Melissa Murray?

  Let's let Jordan go. Let's let Jordan go.

• 38:10Kate Shaw?

  All right, I'm not going to preempt it, but I will say I do co-sign the endorsement of Lawless that Jordan is about to make. Go ahead.

• 38:16Melissa Murray?

  Go, Jordan.

• 38:17Speaker 05

  I was actually going to lead with Lawless, so you two are off the hook. It's my top book of the year.

• 38:22Melissa Murray?

  We knew that.

• 38:24Speaker 05

  I just think it's really unique for the genre. It's so accessible. It's funny. It, in many ways, brought my mom and dad up to speed on what's happening at the court. So it's always wonderful when I could speak with them about what's going on. So Leah just did a phenomenal job with the book. And I think for those who love American Horror Story and the Barbie movie and want a mix of pop culture and law, which is this podcast encapsulated in a book so perfectly, that's Lawless for you. So just wonderful. Deserves a bestseller status that it's attained.

• 38:54Kate Shaw?

  Let's go.

• 38:54Melissa Murray?

  I just want to say, you know, Leah, have a little faith. Like, we did coordinate this. Oh, yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. We did. I mean, I knew Jordan was gonna say it.

• 39:05Kate Shaw?

  Look how he's dressed.

• 39:06Melissa Murray?

  I knew that.

• 39:07Kate Shaw?

  He's wearing.

• 39:07Melissa Murray?

  Look at what he's wearing.

• 39:09Speaker 05

  I was ready.

• 39:09Melissa Murray?

  Hello. That's fair. That's fair. Okay. Honestly. I accept your critiques.

• 39:16Kate Shaw?

  Wait, but Jordan, you don't, you can leave it there?

• 39:18Melissa Murray?

  You are allowed to have it.

• 39:19Kate Shaw?

  Mic drop, but you are also welcome to endorse other things if you would like.

• 39:22Speaker 05

  I will say that this, this book is premier amongst books, but I will give a few others. Another premier book, actually, I will say, Husband of the Pod, Chris Hayes, The Siren's Call, How Attention Became the World's Most Endangered Resource is a phenomenal book. I think for people who are really into, you know, the anxious generation and generally thinking about how digital media is really changing all sorts of social interaction and personal cognization, it's just a wonderful contribution to that genre. And he does a really great job of actually proposing solutions as well and weaving in the law. So just, Chris Hayes, The Siren's Call, does it all. Another front of the podcast, Bad Law by Ellie Mistall, Ten Laws That Are Ruining America,

• 40:05Speaker 05

  sort of walks you through things like standard ground laws, different gun laws in different states that are really contributing to inequality and injustice across the country that I thought was very well done, especially if you like his other book, Allow Me to Retort: A Black Man's Interpretation of the Constitution. It's very much a follow-on to that, and it's very funny, as Ellie tends to be. A classmate of mine, actually, Yale Law School, Zakir Thomases, just came out with Charles Sumner, Consciousness of a Nation.

• 40:31Melissa Murray?

  We love that one.

• 40:32Speaker 05

  Absolutely wonderful contribution. He actually wrote this, or started writing it when he was a 3-0 in law school. I don't know how he made time to do it, but it's, it's a wonderful new look at a forgotten figure of sorts. Everybody remembers Charles Sumner for his caning on the, on the Senate floor, but people don't actually appreciate how much he contributed to the Reconstruction Era project.

• 40:52Melissa Murray?

  Like, why he got caned.

• 40:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, he was actually, he was a radical. He was a part of the radical Republicans at the time, and he had a deep links to Frederick Douglass, and not just Frederick Douglass, but several early black lawyers. In the Reconstruction South and was helping to to to lead the charge of Reconstruction, you know, post Entebellum rebuilding. And so just really fascinating look at Charles Sumner from my my friend's stock here. I'll also put out there a new book by Sonia Sotomayor. I think we don't give enough attention to her. We're talking about Anthony Kennedy's new memoir. We're talking about Amy Coney Barrett's new memoir. But I will say Justice Sotomayor just came out with a children's book. It's called Just Shine, How to How to Be Yourself, How to How to Be Great, I think is what it is. And it's really much in this this sort of ilk of new

• 41:39Speaker 05

  children's books that she's put out in the past few years. She had one called Just Ask, Just Help. And so this one's called Just Shine, and it's dedicated to her mother. And it's really showing children how to explore differences amongst people, but also lean into themselves, and to be brilliant, to be kind, to be empathetic. And I just think it's really wonderful. It's, you know, at a time when you have cases like Mamu v. Taylor that are, you know, making it more difficult for children in schools to access books of sorts because of parental opt outs, it's really sort of telling that one justice is make it easier for children to access books because she's writing them herself. So I just think it's wonderful.

• 42:15Melissa Murray?

  I noticed, Jordan, that although you like to do these throwbacks, you haven't thrown back to another Strict Scrutiny book, the Trump indictment.

• 42:23Speaker 05

  There it is.

• 42:23Melissa Murray?

  She said the last year.

• 42:25Speaker 05

  I thought it was the only the past year, to be fair.

• 42:28Melissa Murray?

  I'm just gonna say, this book, after this year and this court, this is basically fantasy. This is a fantasy read.

• 42:36Leah Litman?

  It's moved from the nonfiction to the fiction.

• 42:38Melissa Murray?

  It's fantasy. Correct.

• 42:39Leah Litman?

  Yeah, correct.

• 42:43Melissa Murray?

  This episode of Strict Scrutiny is sponsored by Cards Against Humanity. Cards Against Humanity, it's not just about party games. Cards Against Humanity is the company that bought land on the US Mexico border to stop Trump's wall. It sued Elon Musk for $15 million for trespassing on that land. It used profits from red states to fund abortion access, and it paid people to give a damn about the 2024 election. Like I said, not just party games. Did you even know all of that stuff they were doing? Rock on, people. Cards Against Humanity is one of the only companies stupid enough to stand up to President Donald J. Trump. They don't profit from their political stunts. So if you want them to be able to afford a good lawyer, please consider buying one

• 43:28Melissa Murray?

  of their new games. There's Cards Against Humanity Tales, a book of fill-in-the-blank stories for horrible people. Basically, it's like FedSok Mad Libs. You're gonna love it. Or there's Shit List, a new way to play the game where you write the answers. Basically sounds like a shadow docket order from the Supreme Court. Or you can try Party Mouth, a new party game about shouting obscenities as a coping mechanism for the hellscape that we live in. Basically, that's a strict scrutiny episode. You listen to Crooked Media, so you probably are smart enough to figure out how to buy Cards Against Humanity stuff, so I'm not going to tell you. In any event, Cards Against Humanity apologizes for interrupting your podcast with this BS.

• 44:11Speaker 07

  Hey, everyone. My name is Elijah Cohn, and I've been a producer here at Crooked Media for a decade. I love making our shows with the smart, creative people who work here and hearing from all of you who listen every week. But the thing that I'm proudest of is that video we made of Vivek Ramaswamy grunting while hitting baseballs. No, wait, sorry. The thing I'm proudest of is the work we do through Vote Save America. See, we don't want our shows to only leave you feeling anxious about the state of the world. We want to give you something you can actually do about it. Just this year, our listeners have raised millions of dollars and filled thousands of volunteer shifts to help candidates and causes in the 2026 midterms, and we have no plans to slow down as we head into 2028. As far as I know, there's no other media company that does what Crooked does. We make

• 44:54Speaker 07

  entertaining, thoughtful content that brings people into politics, and then we give them a direct way to get involved. And if you believe in that mission, one of the best ways to support us is by becoming a paid subscriber. Your subscription helps us keep making the shows you love and building a media company that doesn't just talk about politics, but helps people change them. And if the mission sounds great, but you feel like you need some sweet subscriber benefits to get you over the finish line, we've got you covered. Subscribers get ad-free shows, plus excellent exclusive podcast newsletters, and much, much more. So, thank you for listening and supporting what we do. Head to crooked.com/friends today to learn more and become a subscriber.

• 45:42Leah Litman?

  Maybe super quickly, just some highlights of last year and goals for the next. I absolutely loved our time at Crooked Con. It was just like a magical, energetic audience. I loved meeting like the VIPs at our different live shows this last year. This might be surprising to people. I am not an extrovert and yet I loved meeting all of you. How both of these things can be true, slightly shocking. Specific live show highlights. Melissa gave me a nickname, Sugar Goblin, which I have embraced. I was all getting to eat Giordano's Pizza in Chicago and getting to give a shout out to the stage manager's father. And before the show, Melissa, you learning what just the tip means. We'll not forget that. The DC crowd cheering for Chevron deference, Judge Breyer making an appearance at our New York City live show.

• 46:27Leah Litman?

  This is a highlight of the last few weeks. So guess what our producer, Melody Rauwels' number one song on her Spotify wrapped was. You're never going to guess, so I'm just going to tell you. It's Tate McCray's "Sports Car" and this makes me laugh so hard every time I remember it. She gave me permission to share it. It's okay, Melody, it's fine. I listen to Addison Rae's "Fame is a Gun" when I stretch. It's all good. One other highlight, completing the marathon swim about one year after the bike accident. That was a major highlight.

• 46:58Melissa Murray?

  Yay. Okay, my highlights. Really want to thank the folks at Argent for dressing us for our live shows. Thank you to Sally Christensen and Alex DeCapo Patel for making us look so put together, like an amazing rainbow of legal analysis. You were absolutely fantastic. We love that. Another thing I love, but I know Melody hates, is when Cole jingle bombs an episode. And if you don't know what that means, Cole has a little bell on his collar and sometimes he just walks in and you can hear it and Melody absolutely hates it, but we all kind of love it a little bit. I also enjoyed our backstage shenanigans. I'm not going to be shamed for not knowing what just the tip is.

• 47:43Leah Litman?

  That was not a shame.

• 47:44Melissa Murray?

  We're all here to learn and it's fine. I also really enjoyed meeting Jordan's parents and also Kate's parents. Kate's parents showed up in Chicago.

• 47:56Leah Litman?

  And Jordan's parents, I will co-sign, are just unbelievably lovely people. We've now met at a couple of live shows and are just like...

• 48:04Kate Shaw?

  Angels who walk the earth, as far as I can tell. They really are wonderful, Jordan.

• 48:07Melissa Murray?

  They are lovely.

• 48:09Kate Shaw?

  Okay, I will briefly agree about the live shows in DC. Leah mentioned cheering for Chevron. There was also, at some point, we shouted out the government workers in the crowd and just this roar came up. And that was relatively early in this absolute dystopic nightmare that we are living through, but just like so much gratitude to the people who are sticking it out and trying to do the people's work.

• 48:29Melissa Murray?

  Some of whom were our students.

• 48:30Kate Shaw?

  Yeah.

• 48:31Melissa Murray?

  We had some former students.

• 48:32Kate Shaw?

  We did. And we also had a member of the DC audience who spilled some remarkable tea afterwards.

• 48:37Melissa Murray?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 48:38Kate Shaw?

  So I'm still thinking about that as kind of a highlight from the last year. Also a highlight, the same week of Crooked Con, we had a pretty high-impact election, including of New York City mayors, or on Mumdani, who will be inaugurated just a couple of days after this episode drops. That feels like an exciting, bright spot in an otherwise really, really dark time. My New York City book club has also been a great, bright spot. Lots of recommendations on the WhatsApp in addition to substantive book discussion. I've watched a lot of children's, both middle school and high school basketball in the last year, as both of my older kids are really serious ballers these days. And actually, it's incredibly fun to watch your kids play increasingly high-level basketball. Even if travel basketball is kind of the bane of my existence, it's also been incredibly fun. And as awful as

• 49:23Kate Shaw?

  this administration, as this court, kind of as the two together are, it has been just an enormous, you know, source of relief and comfort and often amusement and even joy to get to debrief it with you, Leah, and you, Melissa, and more recently, you, Jordan, and with our listeners. So that, too, has been a highlight of the last year. Jordan, over to you.

• 49:46Speaker 05

  Well, the number one highlight, for sure, of the past year has been starting to work with you all. I started in January, so coming up almost on the one-year anniversary, and it's just been wonderful. I remember every live show. I think I went to every single one this year, starting with Fordham in February and onward. And they've all been fun and unique in their own way. Actually, the only one I did not go to was DC, much to my chagrin, because I was graduating that week. And so that's another highlight of the year, was I actually, finally, in this very long JD MBA pathway, had a double graduation in May, law school first, and then 10 days later, business school. And now I'm in this sort of weird semester that remains because of the structure of my dual degree. But once I submit my last exam on December 22nd, I will forever be done with being a student.

• 50:31Speaker 05

  So it's the end of an era this year. Which is, you know,

• 50:34Melissa Murray?

  Congratulations. The legal profession needs you.

• 50:37Speaker 05

  Well, it's, it's very exciting to, to be, you know, transitioning now to actually being able to use the knowledge and to try to, in some ways, contribute to this crazy universe that we're in right now. Every single week, as, as you all recap on this podcast, it seems like there's something else that's on fire. And if I could try to use what I've learned over the past few years and continue to learn through this wonderful legal education that is this podcast, um, you know, it's really an honor to be able to do so. So my big highlights, working with Strict Scrutiny, finally graduating, getting ready to be impactful. And I'll also say, listening to Strict Scrutiny. So on my Spotify wrapped, it said that I listened to thirteen thousand seventy minutes, which, uh, is a little,

• 51:16Melissa Murray?

  That sounds right.

• 51:17Speaker 05

  It's a little over two hundred and seventeen hours of Strict Scrutiny. And it put me in the, the top,

• 51:21Melissa Murray?

  Nothing wrong with that.

• 51:22Speaker 05

  Top zero point zero five percent, which I'm hoping means, I'm hoping that means I'm the number one listener, uh, from the past year. And that was a real highlight.

• 51:32Melissa Murray?

  I think Sam Alito might have you beat.

• 51:35Melissa Murray?

  The, the hate-listening crowd is pretty strong.

• 51:38Speaker 05

  Zero point zero one percent. I'm zero point zero.

• 51:40Melissa Murray?

  No, he hate-listens.

• 51:42Speaker 05

  Uh, but all of those were highlights.

• 51:44Leah Litman?

  Um, so some New Year's goals. Um, speaking of Sam Alito, I want to review Sam Alito's book. I just really want to do that. I think that would be fun. I like writing book reviews, so I want that to happen. I also want to read uncensored versions of Elena Kagan's Descent, so I'm going to repeat that request. Um, if there is a Crooked Con next year, I want it to feel like the same high as this year did, you know, on the heels of the November twenty twenty-five elections. Um, I'd also like a Kavanaugh meltdown around that same time, you know, as we had this past year, too. Um, and finally, I want the three of us, Melody, Michael, and Jordan, to be in the same places for more extended periods of time.

• 52:29Kate Shaw?

  That would be great. Um, I'm just going to do one, uh, which is that I, we're talking about justices' books. I want Elena Kagan to write a book. Um, but I don't want it to be a memoir, and I don't even really want it to be a law book. I want Elena Kagan to write fiction. I feel like she would slay in that genre.

• 52:44Leah Litman?

  Fascinating.

• 52:45Kate Shaw?

  And, uh, that's all. Just put it out there to the universe.

• 52:50Melissa Murray?

  Okay, I think I'm gonna bring down the vibe a little bit. I think my goal for this year is literally just surviving this crap-tastic administration. I think it's just becoming, I think especially as a person of color, I think it's becoming harder to imagine that you are insulated from the crap that they're doing. Like that, you know, looking at all of the people being, you know, swept up on the streets, like that just because you're a citizen, you're going to be exempt from that. You know, now that they're focusing on Somalis, I think black people can't be assured that they are going to be safe and inoculated from all of this. So I'm just saying that if you have friends in your lives who fall into these categories of people who are likely to be targeted or look like

• 53:35Melissa Murray?

  people who are likely to be targeted, I just think everyone ought to be aware, like, it just feels really unsafe and that lack of safety feels very uncertain. Sorry. And that lack of safety feels awful.

• 53:49Kate Shaw?

  Cole's like, I will protect you. No one's coming for you, Cole.

• 53:52Melissa Murray?

  I just think it feels really uncertain and I just, you know, I think the goal is to survive and to take care of each other and to resist this.

• 54:05Kate Shaw?

  Yeah, amen.

• 54:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, in a similar register for me, just more resistance, more energy and passion around continuing to make our voices heard. I think that the chaos is the point, the exhaustion is the point. They want us to feel demoralized and to feel like there's nothing you can do in the face of what's happening every single day from ICE and the like. But I think that you look at the energy around the No Kings marches that took place this year, that was really exciting, more of that in 2026, more marches. It doesn't have to be No Kings. Think about what it is that we're passionate about and try to galvanize some sort of energy and movement behind it. We need to really try to show that the people are resisting and that they're political, but also on the ground, you know, boots on the ground, voices being heard, consequences to actions being taken by this administration.

• 54:51Speaker 05

  So more of that in 2026 and also more institutional resistance. I think that the judiciary, the lower courts in particular, were great. ...works of constitutionalism over the past year, and I hope that we continue to see judges like Judge William Young on the District of Massachusetts, right? He got this terrible note that said, "Trump has pardons in tanks, what do you have?" And he goes on to write this absolutely fire opinion that says, "You know, alone, all I have is my sense of duty, but together, you and I, we have this thing called the Constitution. Here's how that plays out in an opinion." And he wrote this wonderful opinion upholding free speech rights of non-citizens who are being ideologically detained and deported. So I think that continuing to see judges, all the clerks who are working for these

• 55:32Speaker 05

  judges, continuing to make sure that you uphold the bastion of constitutionalism in our country will be important. So people on the streets, judges and clerks in the courts, and hopefully, we can try to fight our way through 2026.

• 55:48Kate Shaw?

  Thank you for landing that as the conscience of the podcast, Jordan. Like, that's a great place to, I think, leave it.

• 55:58Melissa Murray?

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• 58:26Speaker 08

  Corrupting our democracy works best when we forget that we, the people, are in charge. I'm Stacey Abrams, voting rights advocate and host of Assembly Required. In my podcast, I'm talking with some of the sharpest minds in politics and in civic activism to help us figure out how to fight authoritarianism and win. My podcast doesn't just diagnose problems. We give actionable steps to help you feel a little more connected and a lot more empowered to make change in your communities. So check out my podcast, Assembly Required. New episodes drop every Tuesday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 59:16Kate Shaw?

  And now, a very warm welcome to our guest for the end of this episode, Ellen Weintraub. We're recording this episode at the end of the week during which the court handed in a pretty, we thought, appalling performance in both Trump versus Slaughter about the future of independent agencies and also RNC versus Federal Election Commission about campaign finance regulation. And since this is our favorite things episode and independent agencies and regulating money in politics are two of our favorite things, we wanted to bring Ellen into the end of this episode. So Ellen, welcome back to the show.

• 59:48Speaker 09

  Thank you so much. Pleasure to be here.

• 59:50Kate Shaw?

  Ellen, you are a former commissioner and, I think, four-time chair of the Federal Election Commission. That is traditionally an independent agency and obviously regulates money in politics. So you have a lot of skin in both of the cases that the court heard this week. What did you make of those arguments?

• 1:00:08Speaker 09

  Well, it was not a particularly uplifting week for me. I sat through, I listened to both of them from start to end. And I think there really, there's a common theme in the two of them, and it has to do with money. It's all about the power of big money in our government and in our society, and whether the government is going to take any steps to address that or to try and push back against that, the big power of big industries. You know, I know the Supreme Court is very fond of the founders and sort of obsesses about what they thought. But let's face it, the founders were a bunch of guys in powdered

• 1:00:47Speaker 09

  wigs who carried muskets, rode on horseback. It's not surprising that they failed to anticipate the needs of a 21st century economy and the need in particular for a cadre of experts in the government to have any kind of hope of pushback to protect the rights of citizens, consumers, employees against the unregulated power of billion-dollar businesses. I thought it was really interesting, there was a very interesting pair of quotes in the Slaughter argument where Justice Sotomayor, she wasn't pulling any punches. She just came right out and said, "You're asking us to destroy the structure of government." And Justice Kavanaugh seemed to be very concerned about the notion that these agencies

• 1:01:31Speaker 09

  are exercising massive power over billion-dollar industries. Well, yes, that's kind of the point, right? We want to have an effective government so that somebody other than the billion-dollar industries and the billionaires behind the billion-dollar industries has a say and that their interests are represented. Yeah.

• 1:01:52Melissa Murray?

  Well, that was actually a part of the oral argument that I thought was noticeably absent. They were talking in these really abstract terms about democracy, about administrative agencies being unaccountable to the people that somehow Congress is not a democratic institution, but the president is. And no one is really sort of drilling down to the actual reasons why we have a Federal Trade Commission, the fact that it exists to prevent the consolidation of industries, of wealth, of monopoly power. And the very people who lined up to sit behind Donald Trump at his second inauguration are the very same people

• 1:02:31Melissa Murray?

  who stand to benefit from a hobbled or newly reconstituted FTC. And it was like, no one would talk about that. And I think that was also absent from some of the media coverage, honestly.

• 1:02:43Speaker 09

  And I think, again, this, this lack of awareness of what's really going on out there was echoed in the NRSC opinion where the, the justices, I'm sorry, I just don't think they know very much about how campaign finance really works because this is not

• 1:03:01Kate Shaw?

  You don't have to apologize for saying that on this podcast. We agree.

• 1:03:04Speaker 09

  This is not the first time that I have heard them say, well, that's totally speculative, that would never happen, about things that are actually happening. You know, back in the Buckley decision, we had a clear statement from the court that said that individual contribution limits were necessary to deal with the reality or appearance of corruption inherent in a system permitting unlimited financial contributions. And we're pretty close to that system right now because the coordination rules are already just more, more whole than cheese, if you want to analogize it to Swiss cheese. And that is partially, I have to say, the fault of the FEC, which Usually, over my objection, had a number of decisions over the years that really opened

• 1:03:49Speaker 09

  the door to more and more interactions between the donors and the political committees and the candidates. But the notion that all of this money is going to be stockpiled and added up and then funneled back to the candidates, we have seen this exact thing happening as long ago as the 2016 election. And it was both sides, both the Clinton campaign and the Trump campaign, had these massive joint fundraising committees where they were collecting contributions in increments of hundreds of thousands of dollars. And, you know, if you wanted to really push it, you could get to a million or perhaps more from individual donors. All of this money supposedly legal because it went to individual accounts of the individual

• 1:04:34Speaker 09

  state committees. But what really happened was that it went into their accounts and then immediately bounced back to the national committee to be used for the benefit of the presidential candidates on both sides. And we had a number of the state party committees who actually got dinged by the FEC. The larger problem was not addressed by the FEC. But they failed to report that they got these contributions and then sent them back to the national committees because they were in their bank account for such a short amount of time, they didn't even know they were there. So the notion that this kind of circumvention is not going to happen, that it's speculative or hypothetical, is completely untethered to reality.

• 1:05:14Kate Shaw?

  Well, that wasn't the only thing, I would say, this week that was pretty untethered to reality. There seemed to be a desire to dwell in the realm of abstraction, I would say, in both of these arguments. And either a kind of a bad faith, either failure to or just refusal to kind of acknowledge some of the on-the-ground dynamics. I think that was absolutely true in both of the cases. So let me ask, if I am not mistaken, Ellen, you, like Rebecca Slaughter, were fired by Donald Trump. And both to the extent that that gives you some special insight into some of the dynamics that we heard about in both of these arguments, but also sort of what unfettered presidential control

• 1:05:57Kate Shaw?

  Has meant, just in the year that Trump has been back in office and will mean going forward, at an agency like the FEC, although feel free to comment more broadly, and also kind of what it might mean to unleash that throughout other pockets of the federal government, because we really struggle to find a limiting principle that the lawyer arguing against this agency independence was able to identify in the slaughter argument.

• 1:06:22Speaker 09

  And I think that is very dangerous. It's going to mean a loss of independence, it's going to mean a loss of independent voices. I mean, let's remember that the FEC is a little bit unusual in that it has an even number from each of the two parties. Most agencies are actually under the control of the president and his party, because most of the independent agencies, most of these multi-member boards, which is, you know, what we were talking about in the slaughter case, have an odd number, and the chair is appointed by the president. So he's got control over these agencies. It's not a question of the president being, these agencies acting without any input from the president. But

• 1:07:02Speaker 09

  what you're going to lose are any independent voices. And you're also going to lose, if this goes down below the very top echelons of these agencies, you're going to lose expertise, and that's already starting to happen, obviously, across government, because A, the president fires people that he doesn't like their opinions, but B, it's going to be much more difficult to recruit good people to come back into government. Why would somebody want to build a career on providing service to the American people, good, public-spirited people that are already working throughout the government, or have been working throughout the government? How do you get those people to have the incentive to come back to government if they know that

• 1:07:45Speaker 09

  they're going to have no job security, and anytime they voice an opinion that's contrary to the president, it'll just, they could just get fired? And the firing of people like me who did speak out, I think was intended and received as a message of intimidation to other heads of agencies and to other government employees. So I think all of that is going to be to the detriment of the American people.

• 1:08:11Melissa Murray?

  Ellen, you mentioned these people that the president is firing in violation of these terms that Congress has set, that now maybe the Supreme Court will make permissible going forward. How did you experience the process of being fired by the president from your post at the FEC? Some people have said that they got an email from someone. Others have said that they were supposed to get an email, but the person sending the email typed their name wrong, so they never got the email. They found out from a coworker who was CC'd. Like, I mean, it just sounds like, you know, they're really doing this government thing at a really high level, like A-plus work here. Can you tell us your Trump firing story?

• 1:08:55Speaker 09

  Yeah, I got an email. I actually was not in the office. It was late on a Thursday afternoon, and I was out of the office, so I was not staring at my email. It was a two-sentence letter. "You're removed, effective immediately. Thank you for your service." They did say "thank you." You did get a "thank you." Not everyone did. I did get a "thank you." I was called, but, but, A, the, the letter was dated a week earlier, so I don't know where it was during that week, but it was dated January 31st. I didn't get it until February 6th. And then it was copied to both the staff director and the general counsel of the agency.

• 1:09:36Speaker 09

  And I think, as I've said before, I think that was intended and received as a message, like, "We're watching you, too." So this person is the first to go, and if you don't make sure that she's out of the building, then, you know, other people could follow. And I was subsequently cut off from my email. I was removed from, I couldn't get access to the databases. They, they decommissioned the chip in my ID that allowed me access to the building. You know, I was given a little bit of time to clear out my office, which, you know, was nice, I guess.

• 1:10:14Speaker 09

  But it was, I was not surprised to be removed by the president, but I thought that what would happen would be that I would be replaced in the normal course, as would have been consistent with the law. But that is not, in fact, what happened. And, by the way, the other, another ramification of all of these firings is that the, it's a, it's a death by decapitation of various agencies, including the FEC. The FEC has, is supposed to have six commissioners, had four as a quorum, and now it's down to two. All of the Republican commissioners left this year. One to join the administration, one to go into private practice, one to run for Congress.

• 1:10:58Speaker 09

  And then I was fired. So they don't have a quorum and there are no nominations pending. So this is another way that the president fails in his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed. That's the sentence that the originalists don't quote quite so often, also from the Constitution. But Congress set up this agency. They set it up in particular as a bipartisan body. And if the president can just fire people willy-nilly so that there is no functional quorum, the agency can't enforce the law, it can't interpret the law, it can't do anything that it's any of its major important jobs.

• 1:11:39Speaker 09

  And the FEC is not the only commission that's been effectively decommissioned. You know, the NLRB, I think, is in the same situation. There are probably others.

• 1:11:47Kate Shaw?

  I think the CPSC maybe lacks a quorum too.

• 1:11:50Melissa Murray?

  But Ellen, this is so interesting. I mean, the point about dismantling by decapitation. So Ramon Martinez, in the argument, said that this case was basically moot because the administration wasn't going to enforce it. He might have actually been exactly right, but for a different reason. Like, they're not going to enforce it because there's not going to be an FEC.

• 1:12:10Kate Shaw?

  Yeah, I think, or he's doubly, he's right for even more reasons that he was identifying. But it did, that when you were talking, Ellen, it made me think that, you know, their effort to completely sort of slash and burn federal government under the leadership of Elon Musk and Doge was actually pretty unpopular in certain respects. But I wonder whether this reflects a kind of effort to, in more, you know, kind of genteel-looking ways, like to just exercise the president's rightful Article II power, but essentially get to the same place, which is agencies that can do none of the work that Congress empowered them to do and that the people often really need, to go back to the first thing you said, to do things like protect consumers, prevent corporate consolidation, protect laborers,

• 1:12:54Kate Shaw?

  and so much more. So before we go, Ellen, as you know, this is our favorite things episode. And as we've already said, agency independence and campaign finance regulation are among our favorite things. And dismantling them is one of our least favorite things. So we've covered some of that ground. We now want to invite you to share with our listeners some of your favorite things.

• 1:13:14Speaker 09

  Well, I'm sorry that Leah's not here because I actually have some recommendations for her because like her, I like a good mystery. Oh, good. She'll listen. Don't worry. So for Leah, some of the series that I've been listening to or reading that have given me a little bit of joy this year are the Veronica Speedwell series from Deanna Rayburn, which is just very diverting, shall we say, an Australian series by an author named Benjamin Stevenson that starts off with a book called Everyone in My Family Has Killed Someone. And it is quite Good title. It's funny. It's, as I said, diverting. I'm reading the latest Louise Penny, The

• 1:13:59Speaker 09

  Black Wolf. She's always wonderful. And then on a more serious note, I listened to the audio version of Judi Dench's memoir, Shakespeare, The Man Who Pays the Rent, which I found, you know, just wonderful and lovely for Shakespeare lovers out there. This is Happiness by Neil Williams, set in a little Irish town, very transporting. Anything by Amor Tolls and Elizabeth Strout, I would recommend. And I also recommend getting out into the fresh air. I did some travel this year, saw animals, went on a safari with my daughter, and that was really special. Does Judi Dench read her own memoir? Actually, she doesn't because her eyesight isn't very good anymore. I see.

• 1:14:44Speaker 09

  But they found an actress who sounds like her Okay, so that works. to read it. So you feel like it's her reading it. There are some excerpts. There are a few little sections of her reading things, but the rest of it is an actress who sounds like Judi Dench reading Judi Dench's memoir. It's still good. It's fun to listen to. There's a dupe for everything. All right. Well, Ellen Weintraub, thank you so much. It's always great to spend some time with you. Happy holidays. Stay strong, be well. Thank you.

• 1:15:10Melissa Murray?

  Before we take off, let's do a little housekeeping. Guess what, West Coast stricties? We are headed your way. That's right. Strict scrutiny is headed to the best coast and we hope that you will be there to catch us. We are going to be in San Francisco on March 6th at the Herbst Theater. You can catch us there and you can just take Southwest or drive all the way down the five to LA and catch us the next night, March 7th in Los Angeles at the Palace Theater. Both nights are going to be absolutely fantastic. We are going to do what we always do, which is to say, we are going to get you up to speed on this court. There may be a little bit of dragging. Who is to say?

• 1:15:48Kate Shaw?

  We have games. We almost always do games at live shows. They're often pretty epic.

• 1:15:51Melissa Murray?

  Always games, like games. We're going to be impeccably dressed.

• 1:15:56Kate Shaw?

  Well, Melissa will be. Leah too. I'm not.

• 1:15:58Melissa Murray?

  Well, I mean, I think Argent's going to be dressing us. And if Argent won't dress us, we're going to wear our pajamas because we're getting on planes and we want Sean Duffy to know that he can't tell us what to do. So there you are. We might just do the whole show in our pajamas just because we're not dressing up because you say so, Secretary Lumberjack. Anyway.

• 1:16:17Kate Shaw?

  But if you want to know what outfits we're really going to be wearing on the stage, you're going to have to buy tickets, show up to see.

• 1:16:23Melissa Murray?

  You've got to be there. Show up. Bob, we've been recording for such a long time. I literally like, is he a senator? Is he a secretary? Secretary?

• 1:16:30Kate Shaw?

  I like it. I just kicked my ring light. Oh God. Okay. Somebody, somebody cut our cord.

• 1:16:37Melissa Murray?

  Land the plane, land the plane. So we're going to be landing this plane in San Francisco. Then we're getting on another plane and headed to LA and we're going to catch you there. So grab your tickets now at cricket.com/events. You can get them right now. They make amazing holiday gifts. You know, there's someone in your life who's like, you know what I need for the holidays? I need to drag this court. Get that person some tickets for March 6th in San Francisco or March 7th in LA. You know what to do. Make it happen.

• 1:17:09Kate Shaw?

  Strix Scrutiny is a Crooked Media production, hosted and executive produced by Leah Littman, Melissa Murray, and me, Kate Shaw. Produced and edited by Melody Rauw. Michael Goldsmith is our associate producer. Jordan Thomas is our intern. Audio support from Kyle Seglan and Charlotte Landis. Music by Eddie Cooper. Production support from Katie Long and Adrian Hill. Matt DeGroot is our head of production. And thanks to our digital team, Ben Heathcote, Joe Motoski, and Johanna Case. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. Subscribe to Strix Scrutiny on YouTube to catch full episodes. Find us at youtube.com slash at Strix Scrutiny Podcast. If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe to Strix Scrutiny in your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. And if you want to help other people find the show, please rate and review us. It really helps.

• 1:18:05Speaker 08

  Corrupting our democracy works best when we forget that we, the people, are in charge. I'm Stacey Abrams, voting rights advocate and host of Assembly Required. In my podcast, I'm talking with some of the sharpest minds in politics and in civic activism to help us figure out how to fight authoritarianism and win. My podcast doesn't just diagnose problems. We give actionable steps to help you feel a little more connected and a lot more empowered to make change in your communities. So check out my podcast, Assembly Required. New episodes drop every Tuesday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:18:50Speaker 10

  Coca-Cola. For the big, for the small, the short, and the tall. Peacemakers, risk takers. For the optimists, pessimists. For long-distance love. For introverts and extroverts. The thinkers and the doers. For old friends and new. Coca-Cola, for everyone. Pick up some Coca-Cola at a store near you.