The problem with Australian politics! Craig Laundy on Energy, AI and Australia’s Next Crisis

Craig Laundy joins me in Las Vegas for a direct conversation on business, politics and legacy, from the Bulldogs’ resurgence to the Laundy family’s investment in 2GB. We unpack the future of Australian politics, the role of AI, economic pressure points and what it takes to build long term impact across generations. Join my exclusive Mentored+ community: https://mentored.com.au/become-a-member/ https://mentored.com.au/become-a-member/ Claim $500 Bitcoin with OKX SMSF. SMSF trustees: Successfully sign-up your SMSF and get verified for an OKX SMSF trading account. Deposit $5 and receive $500 worth of Bitcoin. Eligibility requirements and T&Cs apply. Book a 1-1 call with the OKX SMSF team today for guidance. Offer ends 31 March 2026. Join the Facebook Group. https://www.facebook.com/groups/mentormarkbouris/ See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Craig Laundy, welcome to Straight Talk, mate.

• 0:02Speaker 01

  Mate, I've been, I've actually been to one of these. You've interviewed dad and I sat in the background. You gave me a wave, I think, but now, now I'm the main man.

• 0:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, you are the main man, mate. Well, of course, we're here in Vegas and for anyone who doesn't know, um, the curtains pulled, but we're looking across the strip there and uh, hasn't been here, mate. You were here with the Bulldogs. Uh, you won last night, which is, it was a nail biter.

• 0:22Speaker 01

  Thank God, yeah.

• 0:24Speaker 00

  Crichton saved the day. Like a massive kick.

• 0:27Speaker 01

  Captain courageous.

• 0:28Speaker 00

  Captain courageous, like literally in extra time.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  Yep, overtime, they call it here.

• 0:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, overtime.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  I just spoke to the guys, we came out, he said, how'd your team go? I said, we won in overtime.

• 0:37Speaker 00

  Overtime.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Which is what they understand over here.

• 0:39Speaker 00

  And the, the Bulldogs have brought quite a big group over here. I mean, of course, the Laundy family or the Laundy brand, I might say is uh, the sponsor of the Bulldogs. Um, what was the effort like in terms of getting everybody here? I mean, I'm hearing stories like you put on a family night for the parents, for the players.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  They did a great job. And you know, Aaron Warburton and his team, they used it as a, you know, a, a reward for, for a couple of really good years. They brought a big contingent of staff over to say thanks. And uh, it was extremely well received. But the way they looked after the players and their families, uh, you know, the itinerary, I didn't go to a lot of it because there was a lot of it. But I, I spoke to the players and their families and they just had a fantastic time. They, they made a, a, a real family experience. And the best part is, Mark, we're a family club. You know, Pootamore days, you know, this was the family club. We're back there again. And you know, I had dad and all of our family here.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  Um, that's how we roll nowadays. That's where we, we've got back to and that's where we want to stay.

• 1:47Speaker 00

  That's very interesting because you know, I do remember the Bullfrog days, Pootamore, back in the late eighties or probably before, actually before, long before that, but they sort of ended towards, I think in the early nineties or something. But you know, you had the, the Husers, the, the Moores, the Mortimers, lots of, and it was a family deal. Everybody was always.

• 2:10Speaker 00

  Involved in everything. Um, the laundries have sort of brought that feel back into the joint. And then looking after the players and the families, cause you know, like you know, these days we have a lot of islanders play in our teams, like fifty four percent of players in NRL today are islanders. And they are very family oriented.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  And it's important.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  And Gus is important.

• 2:28Speaker 00

  Oh Gus, yeah.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  You know, I mean, Gus, Gus and dad, they're the great double act. You know, Gus will, will go and talk to the family concerned about their young bloke. And you know, at fifteen, sixteen, seventeen years of age, we're identifying these kids as you are at the Roosters and bringing them into our system. Uh, Cam Sorrel though, his system now at first grade level is replicated at under fifteens at, at Harold Matt's. SG Bull, President's Cup, you know, it, it, it, it is just a diametrically opposed to what we signed on to.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  And day one and what we see now. And then you can't forget, you know, Adam Drusey and John Currie, um, and the board. You know, largely, but those two personalities in particular are unbelievably passionate. John handles the community side of things. Adam is, you know, if he's not the smartest bloke in the room, he's in the semi finals and he's just brought a whole new dimension to, uh, to the way we do things at Canterbury.

• 3:32Speaker 00

  I remember sitting down this time last year with, uh, both Gus and Adam, having a coffee with them. Across the road at the Win Hotel and, um, Adam was telling me about the importance of artificial intelligence. Most people don't realise that. I think Adam is like a major shareholder in a company called Quantium here in Australia.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  He, him and, him and his best mate through uni founded.

• 3:51Speaker 00

  Founded and it is, it would be one of the preeminent, uh.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  The major shareholder now is Woolworths.

• 3:56Speaker 00

  Woolworths, yeah.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  Only because they've brought them out over time because Adam and his partner did all the work for Woolworths and Woolworths were smart enough to identify early. That this guy knows what he's doing.

• 4:07Speaker 00

  He's got a few other clients sitting in, in Quantium too.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  Huge.

• 4:10Speaker 00

  Big names.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Telstra, Commonwealth Bank, you know, Brian Hartzell, who used to run Westpac. For, that, that does our family banking is on, you know, runs his health side of his. Business, you know, Peter Toner, Channel Nine, which we'll talk about, I'm sure as we go through this, is his chair, which is the is the chair of Channel Nine. So I mean, he's surrounded.

• 4:30Speaker 00

  He's the new chair of Channel Nine, yeah.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's surrounded himself with some extremely intelligent people, um, not by chance, you know, by choice. And he's he's just a very switched on operator.

• 4:41Speaker 00

  So when you look at that whole um, uh, cultural piece in a club, that family piece and making sure everybody feels like they belong to something, then you overlay that with artificial intelligence, well, let's call it sort of the smarts. Um, that's probably the best formula you can get. I mean, ultimately, and, uh, you know, Canterbury, you know, struggled a few years back, was struggling for a long time. I mean, really, I think they really struggled after the Moore period.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 5:09Speaker 00

  For a long time, just to re-identify themselves of what they were best for, best known for. Plenty of people tried to bring it back. Um, you you guys brought it back. You then, you know, I I noticed you're shipping everybody out today, like you're not letting, no one's allowed to stay, which is a good thing, to be honest with you. Forty players, they, you know, they're young blokes. And you've got to send them home. You've got to get them home and get them back to, you know, the normal environments. Um, of course, you do you have to play next week? We have the next weekend off, don't you?

• 5:37Speaker 01

  No, we've we've now got two weeks off.

• 5:38Speaker 00

  You've got two weeks off.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  So we've we've got a week off because we played here and then we've got to buy.

• 5:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know. You've got to buy as well. That's actually a good thing.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I think so. I'm not sure the coach thinks so, but I think so.

• 5:49Speaker 00

  Was it worth it? I mean, was it? I mean, there's not only effort involved in getting him here. It's money. It's expensive exercise. Um, and obviously Canterbury has a great sponsor, but it's also a pretty wealthy club and that they've got a good leagues club, et cetera. You know, they do well.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  It it was definitely worth it. I mean, you know, I I got asked by Jono during the week. And and Peter Velandis, who's a very switched on operator, had, you know, had made some comments about taking it elsewhere. If you wanna crack the US market, and I spend a lot of time over here now, if you wanna crack the US market, I don't think you come to Vegas, because there's so much going on here. If you wanna actually get the US market interested and eyeballs on it that aren't Australians visiting, I I think you take it to a city that's got something to offer, but not everything to offer, which Las Vegas does. So what comes to mind, you need, at this time of year here, it's it's cold, and and

• 6:50Speaker 01

  right now in New York, it's it's 20 inches of snow. Freezing. Yeah, so you you basically need an NFL town with an indoor stadium that you can convert to have a rugby league field, but with something to offer tourists, but also if there's not a lot on else on the town. So New Orleans, for example, would be a cracker. Now, if you're the only game in town that week, you know, you're you're a chance of getting US eyeballs to actually go and watch. So in the longer term strategy, I know this is a five year plan to dip the toe in the water, I think they have to look at taking it away from the circus city, which is Las Vegas, where everything goes on here, every night.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  It's mental here. It is mental. And, you know, take it to a town where there's plenty of plenty of stuff for tourists to do from Australia that come, but where it's the only game in town. Right now, this is the sweet spot. So we've only got basketball going on, baseball's finished, NFL's finished. The UFC's on the weekend. Yeah. Boxing is on the weekend, Jai Bhatia is fighting this weekend. They're here, you know, they're going through it. But in another city around America this weekend, you would be the only game in town. And if you are serious about getting US eyeballs on the game, I think they have to branch out and take it elsewhere.

• 8:13Speaker 00

  And I presume Tom, uh, the chairman.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  Of, you've had a whisper.

• 8:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, you had a whisper. So, uh, okay, let's just talk about Craig Laundy because I mean, I did talk to your dad a long time ago. Um, and it was a great interview. I loved having an interview with your dad. I put him up there with the Harry Trigoboffs in terms of interviews, but particularly being able to interview an older man who's, you know, hasn't always had it as easy as everybody might think they have it. Um, you know, he's, he's, he's a tough bastard. He's grinded through like years and years of hard decisions and, you know, probably intolerable periods. You know, everyone looks at him today going, how many pubs you guys got in your portfolio?

• 8:51Speaker 01

  We run over a hundred now.

• 8:53Speaker 00

  Over a hundred. So they're probably go, wow, you know, but they don't realise where, where your dad started or probably your grandfather started.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  Um, yeah.

• 9:00Speaker 00

  Let's go back to Craig Laundy. You're one of three kids?

• 9:04Speaker 01

  Four, from the oldest to four.

• 9:05Speaker 00

  So you're the eldest. So I know Stuart, I know you, but have you got two sisters?

• 9:08Speaker 01

  Two sisters, then Danielle and Justin.

• 9:10Speaker 00

  Two sisters, right. So, um, where did Craig Laundy sort of grow up and what's the deal?

• 9:16Speaker 01

  We're, we're a Straffield family.

• 9:18Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  So, um, which was dead centre of the Cedar Reed.

• 9:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Which I'm sure we'll get to.

• 9:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, we will.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  Um, but yeah, we, we're third generation Straffield people. Um, you know, my grandparents used to go back there in between selling pubs and, and rent houses my father and mother bought there. Uh, I was born at the Twin Willows at Bass Hill. I lived there for a short period.

• 9:39Speaker 00

  Cause Bass Hill is your grandfather's grandparents' area.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  They, they built that. I've been in 1964. I lived there for a short period. I actually fell in the pool. Uh, lucky to be alive. The housekeeper saw me go in.

• 9:49Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and grabbed me out, uh, otherwise would have drowned. And, uh, it scared the shit out of mum and dad. So much so that he rang a mate of his who was a real estate agent in Straffield and said, find me a house. And he bought a house the next day. So we moved to Straffield in nineteen, at, at nine seventy, in a nine seventy one, seventy two, early seventy two, and, and I was there till two thousand and sixteen.

• 10:13Speaker 00

  Do you remember moving out of the, um, I, I, I recall this living out there, but, uh, I, I, I'm pretty sure it was Bass Hill, cause there's just a little bit further out from where I was, but.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  The drive in.

• 10:22Speaker 00

  There was a drive in theatre.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  We're right next door to us.

• 10:24Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  It's now Bass Hill Shopping Centre.

• 10:26Speaker 00

  I love that drive in theatre.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, we used to go, you put the, the speakers on the windows.

• 10:30Speaker 00

  Wind the windows up and mum and daddy go and buy them fish and chips.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 10:33Speaker 00

  And they put it on the front seat, cause those days the seat was just a bench.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 10:37Speaker 00

  And me and my brother and sister, we used to sit over the thing, we'd be, it's like, we'd be like seagulls, swooping out to pull the chips out.

• 10:42Speaker 01

  Taking the chips.

• 10:43Speaker 00

  It was the best thing, and we'd always have a blanket, and we'd always fall asleep. But I don't remember what movies or sort of, but it was a big, that was a big night out, Bass Hill Drive in Theatre.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  Mate, it, it, it was, I remember it like it was yesterday.

• 10:54Speaker 00

  Did you used to go there?

• 10:55Speaker 01

  Uh, it, we occasionally.

• 10:56Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  But, um, but I remember.

• 10:58Speaker 00

  It was so good, so good. So, and then you, you went to school, what, did you go to some Pats?

• 11:03Speaker 01

  I went to Del Monte first, at, at, at Straffield, then some Pats.

• 11:07Speaker 00

  Then some Pats.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  And then over to Joey's.

• 11:08Speaker 00

  Then over to Joey's. And then, when you finished school?

• 11:11Speaker 01

  Eighty eight.

• 11:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm sorry, after school though, what did you do?

• 11:13Speaker 01

  I went to university.

• 11:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  New South Wales.

• 11:15Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 11:16Speaker 01

  Did a, a econo, commerce degree.

• 11:18Speaker 00

  A commerce degree, yeah, university.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  I'm an accountant by trade, I've just never practiced it other than family business.

• 11:23Speaker 00

  So you special, you, um, majored in accounting and finance?

• 11:25Speaker 01

  Uh, I did economics and finance, minored in accounting.

• 11:28Speaker 00

  Minored in account, okay. So, how did, why did you go to politics, or did you go and work for your family for a while?

• 11:34Speaker 01

  Uh, I, I worked for dad for twenty three years. And then in two thousand and seven, Scott Leach, who's a great mate of mine, president of the AHA, um, very shrewd individual, rang me and he said, there's a guy you need to meet, just been elected. Uh, his name was Mike Baird. He said, I think you, you and he would get on well. He's the first politician at that stage I met that was my age. I thought politics at that stage was for older guys and, and ladies. And, um, I, I got, I struck it off, struck, you know, we, we got on and, uh.

• 12:05Speaker 00

  Mike Baird being the, uh, New South Wales premier.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  Fr- the former Liberal Party. Yeah, yeah. And, and good friend, still today. And, uh, him and Karen and, and his family, we had his daughter work for us up at the Crown Plaza at Terrible. Um, you know, we're, we're very close to, to these guys. And, uh, and Mike said to me something that ended up being prophetic at the time, but, um, uh, he said in two thousand and eleven, two thousand and twelve, he said. You know, this is in you politics, you just don't know it yet. And then I got that riled up with the Gillard government, that I rang him and said, you know, if I did this, would you be in my corner? And I'll never forget it, as long as I live, he said, bugger your corner, I'll be right in the middle of the ring with you.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  And, and he supported me very strongly. John Brogdon, who is a former opposition leader and some bats boy. Uh, he spent hours trying to talk me out of it. And when he couldn't, he said, okay, you passed the test. He gave me a great hand through my pre-selection, because I had to join the party, had never been a member. I was very different to what most politicians are, because I came from the real world. And I needed their help. Uh, John Brogdon, Mike Baird, then it became great mates with Gladys, uh, through the journey. And my chief of staff ended up being Gladys's chief of staff. Neil Harley was very instrumental in guiding me as well.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  Um, and yeah, I just, just got into it by, by accident.

• 13:37Speaker 00

  And you, you came in under your first assistant ministry, or you know, your first ministry was, as I recall, um. No, no, I'm recalling a different period. I'm recalling when you, you were sitting under Arthur Senardinus.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, in industry innovation.

• 13:53Speaker 00

  Innovation and, and, were you ever the minister for small business?

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah, I, I, that's where I ended up, small business industrial relations. I asked you to do a bit of work.

• 14:02Speaker 00

  I did, I did some work and we, we ran a task force.

• 14:06Speaker 01

  You did.

• 14:08Speaker 00

  Which was interesting at the time, and particularly given where everything's ended up with AI, because we ran the digital task force. And now, you know, we're trying to work out how we can get Australians to become more digitally.

• 14:18Speaker 01

  Savvy.

• 14:18Speaker 00

  Savvy. And now, of course, AI, if you don't do AI, you're in trouble. Um, so talk about savvy, but if, what, how did you become close to Malcolm, close to Arthur, et cetera?

• 14:32Speaker 01

  So.

• 14:32Speaker 00

  How's that work?

• 14:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, it, it's sort of, it, it comes down to personality. Um, I, as a backbencher, was quite outspoken on a few issues. I would call them common sense. I mean, you look at what happened in Bondi. Uh, you know, tragically in, at the end of last year, section eighteen C of the racial discrimination act is probably where I first stood up and said, no, hate speech is not good. And, you know, Tony Abbott, the Andrew Bolt case had gone on, he'd lost under section eighteen C. Uh, Abbott and George Brandis vowed to, as an election commitment, change that. And, and I thought that was wrong. And I stood up and I said, this is wrong.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  And it was the first time I spoke in party room. I, you know, I, I went down there and thought, I don't know what they all do. And my dad's always taught me, stay at the back, be quiet and listen and learn. Um, but I couldn't listen any longer. I had to speak because I had one of the most multicultural diverse seats in federal parliament. And hate speech sucks. And you see what it brings. And we've seen that play out and I just put my hand up. And it was that point that I sort of came to the attention of someone like Malcolm. Uh, you know, Arthur, you know, Arthur rang me, he's such a good people person, Arthur.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  He rang me and he, he, uh, he hadn't met me, you know, he, he got to know me a little bit through the pre-selection. But he said, what's your story? And we had a good chat and he and I remain very good mates today. And I, you know, I had the fortune for me, misfortune for Arthur. I was his junior minister when he got crook. He got cancer. Yeah, he, and he, and he went off to fight that. And Malcolm didn't want to reshuffle and he spoke to me and he said, look, can you handle this? And he said, I don't want to reshuffle. And I said, I, I will step up. And, you know, Arthur, God bless him, gave me the go for your life.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  And I, I got to run the portfolio, which is a huge portfolio and so important and so forgotten about. Although I do think. Um, Andrew Charlton is the great hope of the side on the Labour side of the fence. Um, I don't cheer them on the Labour side of the fence. You know, I hope they go well, but I'm obviously a liberal man. But someone like Andrew Charlton, who comes again from the real world, went to politics first, then came back to the real world. Who's now in this space of innovation, industry and science. You know, he's a very shrewd mind. And it's that stuff with AI, which is now the buzzword. But how is that gonna change what the Australian economy looks like?

• 17:25Speaker 01

  The answer is hugely. How does government respond? You know, do they regulate and kill it? Hopefully not. Do they put guardrails in place? Hopefully yes. Um, but it, it, you know, with those sorts of minds around the table at this point of the electoral cycle, when the libs are, you know, at this stage, nowhere to be seen. Uh, you know, it's, it's those minds I, I, I point to and hope that they, they hold sway.

• 17:53Speaker 00

  I mean, one of the great thing that Malcolm, Malcolm may not have been the greatest politician of all time in terms of, um, understanding people. But he definitely is one of the smartest guys that's ever entered politics in our, in Australia. I mean, he's extremely smart.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  I remember we, so when there were, there were bombings, they bombed a Christian church in Egypt. Um, a Coptic church and Orthodox, Coptic Orthodox. And we went to Annandale and I was the minister for multiculturalism. And, and I went with Malcolm, we're standing in the church pew at the front. And the stations of the cross are around the wall. Okay, as a, as a tyke, as a Catholic.

• 18:33Speaker 00

  Same here.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  Yep, so we, we see those. And he leans over and he, I'm standing right next to him, he whispers, I mean, he said, ancient Egyptian is such a magnificent language. He goes, look, that, that's all ancient Egyptian on the stations of the cross.

• 18:48Speaker 00

  He knew that.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  He knew that. And I thought, how the hell do you know that?

• 18:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  He was just. A cut above.

• 18:56Speaker 00

  High level of knowledge.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  Oh, the the stuff that would come out when he didn't mean it to come out. He was just, and he is today, he's a good man. Him and Lucy are great friends of Susie and mine. And and will be till the day we we die. But he he just sadly got hacked down for no no reason. Um, and coincidentally, a guy came into our box last night, our suite. And he said, I'm a great mate of Peter Dutton's. And I said, well, he goes, but he he said, don't hold that against me. I said, are you kidding? Dutton's is a great mate of mine. And he put him on the phone. And he couldn't, the guy couldn't believe that Dutton's and I are good mates, because I was good mates with Malcolm. And I said, you don't understand publicans in politics. You know, we we get on with everybody. We may have ideological.

• 19:43Speaker 00

  That's very Australian too, by the way.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, but well, not in politics, Mark. It is Australian, but in politics, they hold grudges. And they hold them for lifetimes. They come up through the system. They're on different sides of the ideological fence. They're in the same party technically, but god, can they hold a grudge?

• 20:01Speaker 00

  But that's why we need, that's why I think we need more real people in politics. And particularly out of business, like just generally speaking, not only in pubs, but in business, you can't be enemies with anybody.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  No.

• 20:11Speaker 00

  Because, I mean, it's and it's a sort of a, it's a funny thing, you know, because, you know, right now, we're in the middle of the drama in the Middle East and you and I have been probably watching this on, not at the same time on CNN and, you know, Fox News and whatever, what's going on in the Middle East. It's happened right here whilst we're here, the whole, you know, the whole breakout in the Middle East. And one thing about Trump is was interesting, and I'll get you to reflect on this if you don't mind. Um, on one hand, he'll hammer someone, but literally within days, he's willing to do a deal. Just to, just to, just to settle it all down. What do you think of that sort of process?

• 20:47Speaker 01

  Look, he's not my cup of tea.

• 20:50Speaker 00

  As a personality.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, I, I, I get what he's trying to do and, and you've got to understand that US politics is very different to Australian politics. Because they have executive government. So he's pushing the boundaries every day here. Um, using executive government to bypass Congress and the Senate. Um, the midterms and both those houses at the moment are in his favour. The midterms, I think, will prove a great challenge in November.

• 21:15Speaker 00

  For him, yep.

• 21:15Speaker 01

  Yep. Um, especially you look at some of the outer cycle elections that have gone on. In, in the States and, you know, I, I keep an eye on it over here. Here because we've got a place here now and we spend a bit of time here. Um, but if you look at what's happening here in the outer cycle elections. You know, you would swear he's not hiding nothing. However, because of executive government. I don't think they can really curtail things like. That's happened in the last forty eight hours. I mean, there was a call from Congress yesterday. This is a war, therefore it should come to Congress. He's basically given them the middle finger and said, no, bugger you, this is my call. And whether you believe he's right or wrong, he's decisive.

• 21:58Speaker 01

  And, and, and this is the business background of him, I think. You know, the art of the deal is go hard. Prove that you are in a position of strength and bring the other term to the table and then negotiate.

• 22:09Speaker 00

  And, and that's sort of what he, the way he sort of processes everything. That's what it seems to me. And I don't think he really cares whether he likes or doesn't like someone.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  That, that's his default, I think.

• 22:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, but, but it sort of works.

• 22:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I agree.

• 22:21Speaker 00

  I mean, I know.

• 22:22Speaker 01

  You know, I, I, again, I, I preface it by saying, I, you know, it's, he's not my cup of tea. But you can't argue that the art of the deal, mentality that he brings. You know, it, it, it's worked in most stuff. It hasn't worked in Ukraine and Russia. Um, and I think the main reason that's the case is Putin is exactly the same sort of personality.

• 22:44Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  Um, you know, I, I, I met a fund manager in the UK a couple of years ago. And he, he came up with a great one liner. You know, Putin, it was thought had the second best army in the world. Uh, it turns out he's got the second best army in Ukraine. Um, you know, cause he doubted the resolve of Ukrainian people and their armed forces. And he's paying a huge price for that, but he's got manpower on his side. He keeps conscripting and sending young kids sadly to their potential demise.

• 23:15Speaker 00

  So if, with that as a backgrounder, um, and also if we just recall Malcolm's initiative of, let's, I think he called it the Innovation Nation.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Um, yes, he did.

• 23:29Speaker 00

  He did call it the Innovation Nation, but we're talking about two thousand and eighteen around that period.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  So it was NESA, National Innovation and Science Agenda.

• 23:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  Was the technical policy position.

• 23:39Speaker 00

  Way ahead of his time because today, that's a deal.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:43Speaker 00

  Back then, it was hard to, um, spread that word, hard to distribute that idea. Because that idea was probably ahead of where everybody was thinking, you know? I mean, I know I got involved in a task force, which is part of us being more innovative. Um, and trying to digitize Australian businesses, small businesses, and also trying to protect the consumers around that sort of stuff. But it's, it was ahead of its time. Um, now we're in that period. We are definitely in that period because we keep talking about productivity in Australia.

• 24:15Speaker 00

  And productivity is causing us to, causing the reserve bank to put in, low productivity is causing the reserve bank to put up interest rates. We need to be much more innovative in this country. Therefore, we can become more productive, innovative in that, um, you know, like, uh, let's get machines to do things that people can normally do. And redeploy people into other jobs, retrain them, then redeploy them to other jobs. Um, we need to be much more globally competitive, which we're not. Um, uh, big corporations aren't innovating, innovative because the regulatory environment, it's a lot easier just to say, let's just protect our profits and pay our dividends and everyone's going to be happy. And no one's worried about taking a risk because innovation requires risk. Malcolm was not adverse to taking risk.

• 24:57Speaker 00

  He understood that we need to become the innovative nation, like, and he, you could see a place like Singapore surging ahead. Like the Singapore dollar now is.

• 25:04Speaker 01

  Where, where, where he's coincidentally, his young bloke Alex.

• 25:08Speaker 00

  Is, is.

• 25:08Speaker 01

  Is based.

• 25:09Speaker 00

  And, and, and.

• 25:10Speaker 01

  And comes, and he's working in that innovation side.

• 25:14Speaker 00

  And we need to be doing that stuff.

• 25:16Speaker 01

  One hundred percent.

• 25:17Speaker 00

  And, and so. Why do you think it was unsuccessful relatively speaking? It was the right idea, right, right concept. Why do you think at the time around eight, two thousand and eighteen, it was unsuccessful in being sort of expressed and people sort of grabbing hold of it? Like the media, for example?

• 25:34Speaker 01

  I don't think Australia was ready to hear it. And I, I think what's played out, you know, I've always thought Australia takes the lead from the US. It's normally ten years behind. So what's ended up playing out in the US? I mean, we're here in Vegas. You can walk down and book a car to pick you up that doesn't have a driver, that drives you around those streets. They're geofences.

• 25:59Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Okay, there's Google are in this up to the nines.

• 26:03Speaker 00

  They've got a business called Waymo.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, Waymo. And so you, you look at these, at these businesses, Nvidia, Apple, Microsoft, you know, they were nothing like they were in two thousand and eighteen as they are today. And it's, it's that sort of lead and the buzzwords. But then I'll, I'll flip the coin in a minute on you here, Mark, because it's another great challenge for government. Um, but it's, it's, it's now front and centre of mind because AI is actively now replacing people to do certain things. It's only manual tasks at the moment. It will become far more, I mean, you're a legal firm.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  If, if you're a paralegal listening to this podcast today, be aware.

• 26:50Speaker 00

  Get ready to retrain.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  These things, this AI is coming and will take the role, will, will, will take over the role that you play. But the flip side then for Australia now, and again, one of the great minds that Malcolm has, he could see this, is the power consumption that data centres that power all of this are going to take and the pressure that will put on the way that we've decided to go in Australia on power supply. You know, here we are in, we're in Nevada, okay? I've got a place in California. California is the most democratic state in the US. They are.

• 27:33Speaker 00

  Democratic in terms of Labour Party.

• 27:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, Labour Party, yep. So left-leaning, most left-leaning state in the US. They are reopening actively right now, mothballed previously, nuclear power stations to power data centers. Because they can't sustain the power consumption required into the future by the way they've gone with green energy. And, you know, this is the thing, we don't know the unintended consequences, in inverted commas, of what this great leap forward in artificial intelligence and innovation, it will require to be powered. And the way we've gone in Australia, I can't wait.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  I mean, you wanna see, you know, in terms of when is the Liberal Party back in the game?

• 28:24Speaker 00

  Twenty thirty.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  No, no, it's when the lights don't go on.

• 28:28Speaker 00

  Well, I'm thinking twenty thirty.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  It's when you come home and you can't turn your air conditioning on in the middle of summer because you're in a brown out or a phased blackout. That's when the Liberal Party are back in the game, you know, sadly, in my mind at the moment. Because we are going down a route of, you know, national lunacy, a resource-based country that is closing and mothballing coal-fired power stations, not reinvesting in them.

• 28:56Speaker 00

  And gas.

• 28:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, well, not even mining gas.

• 29:00Speaker 00

  No new gas.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  No, no, no, there's reservations all down the eastern seaboard of Australia. You know, gas is obviously, you know, they say it's the transition to renewable energy. Bullshit. It's the future of where Australia needs to be if we want to have what we always had. You know, we've always had high-paid, you know, award jobs in the manufacturing space historically. And why have we done that? Because we've had low taxation rates and low power. So businesses could prosper and businesses could compete internationally. They've now put every, you know, high-paid wages are, you know, are there still,

• 29:42Speaker 01

  but every other input cost has gone up and you can't compete on the national stage.

• 29:47Speaker 00

  And, and that gives us a massive disadvantage. Why do you think? And I'm not here to bag Labour because I'm talking to a Liberal guy, but why do you think Labour's not embracing this stuff? I mean, is it ideology?

• 30:00Speaker 01

  Again, I point to a guy like Andrew Charlton. It is ideology, but someone like him that comes from the real world and from the New South Wales right of the Labour Party. And the most sensible Labour governments we get in this country are right leaning Labour governments, right of the Labour Centre, which is the left of the Liberal Party predominantly.

• 30:23Speaker 00

  So sort of the middle.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:25Speaker 00

  Chris Minns.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, Chris Minns, great example, you know.

• 30:28Speaker 00

  Daniel Moog and Chris Minns.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, what a team. Great examples of being sensible centrists. And, you know, you know, these are the guys that you hope make their way through. Jason Clare, Tony Burke, you know, Andrew Charlton. These are the guys that are coming that if Labour are to be successful, and I don't wish them bad luck, you know, they're the government of the day. I wish them every success.

• 30:55Speaker 00

  Because they're the government of the day.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  Exactly. And we're Australian. But these guys are good thinkers, good people, good hearts and good minds. And they're the guys that need to come through. And, you know, Michelle Rowland, another great example, member for Greenway and a good friend of mine, you know, eminently sensible. You know, these are the people that, you know, Albo has surrounded himself with at the moment. I mean, he's risk averse, he's interested, I think, in tenure, not policy, which is going to be, you know, at some stage he's going to need to flip on that because the Libs will get more competitive under Angus. But, you know, these are the people that I, you know, that I hope step up over time and continue if we are to have Labour governments

• 31:41Speaker 01

  to allowing businesses to embrace AI, but to allow them to rely on power sources beyond renewables, because I don't think we can survive without traditional power.

• 31:51Speaker 00

  If you were the Chair of the Economics Committee now and the Reserve Bank Governor was sitting in front of you, let's say the Reserve Bank Governor's sitting there and you've got the Treasurer, Jim Chalmers, sitting there together. What would be one of the things you'd be saying or asking? And relentlessly asking in relation to what's going on in for our economy because you're like, you know, mate, you come from Strathfield, your parents, you know, at some stage when they were first had your kids had a mortgage and you know, they had a pub, they're doing their best, but they've got to pay the rates and the interest rate and this rate keeps going up or they, it looks like it's going to keep going up and they're worried about putting the four kids through school, blah, blah, blah, the usual stuff.

• 32:31Speaker 00

  How do you build, what would you be saying to the Reserve Bank Governor and to, and to the Treasurer at the same time? Because right now you get the Reserve Bank Governor, she's not going to say much about the government, the Treasurer is not going to say much about the Reserve Bank. If you're going in the same room at the same time, what would you say to him as Chair?

• 32:47Speaker 01

  So if you're Chair of the Economic Committee, which I've had the honour of being.

• 32:50Speaker 00

  I know that.

• 32:52Speaker 01

  You are a member of the Government of the Day. The question that she won't be asked, that she needs to be asked, is what role is government spending playing in creating inflation? That is the question that needs to be asked.

• 33:07Speaker 00

  Well, given us the biggest percentage of GDP that we've had since like, I don't know.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  And only, only gonna get bigger.

• 33:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:14Speaker 01

  I mean, you know, this, this, you know, Alba wants his centipose to be childcare, you know, at pre-school and childcare, it's, it's another NDIS in waiting.

• 33:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  I mean, the NDIS was a fantastic scheme. It will outstrip Medicare, the, the health spend within the next decade in this country. We keep rolling out under the Labor Government, you know, national welfare programs with no future thought on how you fund them. I mean, my great hope is that Angus now becoming leader of the Liberal Party has some time, another very smart mind, has some time to surround himself with people and think about the next 20 years. I mean, the problem with Australian politics is electoral cycles are three years.

• 34:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, too short.

• 34:05Speaker 01

  The thinking needs to be the next 20. And, you know, what does that look like for power? What does that look like for tax?

• 34:12Speaker 00

  What does it look like for water?

• 34:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, water?

• 34:14Speaker 00

  Dryest, driest continent in the world.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  You know, where, where is the long term infrastructure spend? I mean, I'm not averse, Albo's now looking at fast rail. And everyone's criticizing him because this chestnut keeps being brought up every five or six years. But it should have been done 20 years ago, when it would have been 10% of the price that we will now have to pay to do it. I mean, you come down here, Mark, to the US, you look at their road infrastructure and you compare it to what we've got. And you think, how the hell do we survive? You know, they've got eight lane freeways going right across this country, which is basically the same size of Australia, just not bound, bound by one side predominantly, like we do in Australia, the eastern seaboard.

• 35:00Speaker 01

  So the, the long term thinking, what does tax look like? Do you broaden the GST? And if you broaden the GST, how do you sell that? Do you make education, you said it, the mortgage and paying the school fees? Do you make education tax deductible? So that if you want to reinvest in your children in a private school.

• 35:17Speaker 00

  Well, you used to get it, you used to get a rebate for, for education.

• 35:19Speaker 01

  Do, do you want to make that tax deductible? Do you add dental to Medicare? I mean, have a blank whiteboard. You know, my, my advice to Angus for, for the two cents from the cheap seats. Have a whiteboard and come up with things that are bold. Be bold and, and be brave. And if you want to have tax reform, you know, if you want to add the GST to food, okay? Make the tax free threshold, take it from eighteen thousand seven hundred and fifty dollars to fifty thousand dollars.

• 35:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:51Speaker 01

  So that people aren't adversely impacted, they pay the GST instead of.

• 35:56Speaker 00

  Income tax.

• 35:57Speaker 01

  Paying income tax.

• 35:58Speaker 00

  And, and they pay as they, as they spend?

• 36:00Speaker 01

  Yes, and, and these are the, these are the sorts of things that have been missing.

• 36:05Speaker 00

  But why are they doing it? But Craig, why are they doing it? But what?

• 36:08Speaker 01

  Because they, they govern from the day they, from day one of being elected, their whole goal is in three years time to be re-elected. That's the sad state of Australian politics. That's the reality of of the sad state of Australian politics. And, you know, Albo, as I, as I said, you know, that Daniel Molino, the Assistant Treasurer, I sit on the House Plus Board, industry super, plays a massively important role in Australia. And I said to Daniel Molino, you have the chance now. Oh, you know, they're presumably got another two terms because of the size of the majority. Be bold, govern, come up with some vision, okay?

• 36:49Speaker 01

  Beyond social welfare, which is where they tend to default to, what's the, you know, what is the benefit? Jim Chalmers, step up. You know, it's not all about government expenditure. What's tax reform look like?

• 37:02Speaker 00

  Oh, mate.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  What's productivity reform look like? What does tax incentives to create productivity?

• 37:09Speaker 00

  Well, he actually said at the the last election that there are his two things, productivity and tax reform.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  And he had the round table.

• 37:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Where at the round table was the people that actually operated small businesses? You had the boss of Cosbauer.

• 37:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  You know, who, I don't even know who he is.

• 37:24Speaker 00

  He's not a bad bloke, but he doesn't operate a business.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 37:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  You know, put, you, you know, Jim, don't have the large S of, I don't know what it costs to fly them all there and have them. Go to one of your marginal seats, get your marginal seat holder who's a worker to put twenty small business operators in the room and sit and listen to them and say, what are the issues? What can we do to help? That's where Malcolm was good. Malcolm would come out to marginal seats, you know, he'd catch the train as Prime Minister to Burwood in my seat. I'd meet him at the station, I'd take him right through all the small businesses and he'd say, how can we help? And that's the sort of thinking that you need to do as a retail politician. The sad thing is, in politics in Australia, the people in authority are the owners of safe seats, not marginal seats.

• 38:12Speaker 00

  Ah.

• 38:13Speaker 01

  That's the problem, you know, and therefore they don't have to talk to their electorate.

• 38:17Speaker 00

  There's no risk.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Their electorate, it reelects them, no matter what happens. So, you know, the real workers are the marginal seat holders. They're the ones that have the connections to small and family business operators. They're the ones that could put people around a table and talk to Jim Chalmers and say, this is what we need you to do.

• 38:38Speaker 00

  When's Craig Laundy going to come back and apologize?

• 38:40Speaker 01

  No, he's he's not. He's gonna cheer, he's gonna cheer both sides from the sidelines, and there are good people in both teams. But um, but he's he's gonna, you know, in influence, you know, when when asked for advice, if he's asked for advice, he'll give his two cents worth.

• 38:54Speaker 00

  Well, this is, well, given that then, um, let's talk about the latest and hottest topic that you guys have invested in. I mean, by the way, the Laundy family buy hotels for 50 million. Um, you know, that's no, that's not unusual for you two guys to do that. Um, you've just bought the radio stations from Nine, so Nine Radio, um, and I was talking to Matt Stanton last night, the the CEO of Channel Nine, he said it was a great deal. I don't mean a great deal, it was done in a really good way.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  It was.

• 39:25Speaker 00

  A really good transaction for both sides of the, both sides of the fence. Um, it it was written down in the books for less than you paid for it. Um, what are you guys thinking about? What's your sort of strategy, the Laundy family? What's the strategy around owning, uh, I think it's two P R, two B L.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  Six P R.

• 39:43Speaker 00

  Six U G B.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  Three A W, four B C.

• 39:46Speaker 00

  Four B C, that's it.

• 39:47Speaker 01

  There's a whole heap of other.

• 39:48Speaker 00

  So Queensland, Perth, Melbourne, Sydney.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  There's other stations in each state too.

• 39:52Speaker 00

  Right.

• 39:52Speaker 01

  Which they lease out to other people at the moment. There's a whole heap of digital bandwidth that comes with it, that you can create stations through. Um, but.

• 40:02Speaker 00

  What's the, what's the strategy?

• 40:03Speaker 01

  The strategy is they were great assets. Um, that we we bought them at a cap rate, uh, you know, that that is far better than buying a hotel. Um, we believe.

• 40:18Speaker 00

  Cause when you buy a hotel, you you could be buying on a two or three percent, uh.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  If you want it, if it's an icon, you could pay that. If not, it's six and a half, seven.

• 40:26Speaker 00

  Six and a half percent, yeah.

• 40:27Speaker 01

  Now, this was a 10% return.

• 40:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Um, you know, but then you add in the backend synergies. We think we can run the backend through the the cost of not being listed. So I'll give you one example. You know, they have to do a full independent audit every year. It costs a fortune to do. We don't have to do that. They have to produce results within two days a month end. I need them in 18 days. You know, I said to the financial controller that's coming across from Nine to us, you know, Harry is is coming across with us. I said, mate, if I don't need the results within two days, if I need them within 18 days a month end, he said that'll save me one person. I mean, this is how you look at the, you know, the art of the deal.

• 41:12Speaker 00

  You're going to be the public and you're.

• 41:14Speaker 01

  We're in the minutia.

• 41:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 41:16Speaker 01

  We are, we are in the back end of this. You know, how do we run this more effectively than a listed business will? Then you've got the added benefit. You know, we, we don't take over till May 1st. I've been to 2GB four or five times since the announcement. I've been to 4BC, 3AW, Dad's been to 3AW, Dad's been to 6PR in Perth. We've met all of the staff, everyone, and introduced ourselves. We will be walking through this, these businesses on a regular basis. You know, Matt Stanton has a huge business to run.

• 41:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, Matt, Matt being the CEO of the group.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:51Speaker 00

  Nine Group.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  Channel Nine. He can't walk through those businesses. This is the only immediate, this is a diversification play for us. It makes a lot of sense because we think we can add back end synergy cost savings. But also, I've already met with the sales director, Brian, lovely guy. I took a list of the 1,200 businesses, if you don't mind. Now, I didn't know it was that many, that the Laundy Hotel family spends money with. And I said, that's who we spend money with. Who advertises with your network? Why? Because spending money like with Carlton Brewery, Two's Brewery, Aristocrat Gaming here, in, you know, should be a two way street. You know, if, if, you know, we will go, I will take Brian with me to meet those people.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Um, Gil McLaughlin, Tab Cork, Tab Cork, we're their biggest private customer. You know, Tab Cork advertise with 2GB. I don't think they spend enough with T G B.

• 42:47Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  With three R W.

• 42:48Speaker 00

  Is that leverage?

• 42:49Speaker 01

  Yep, we sit with them and we work with them on how we get them to spend more promoting our business while we promote theirs, how we make it mutually beneficial. That's the business thinking that we're hoping to bring to it and make that ten percent of twenty percent.

• 43:05Speaker 00

  So, so what we're looking at is on one hand, the economy is a sky, which is, um, you know, being able to reduce costs where you can, um, by sharing facilities and services, et cetera. That's a cost, uh, reduction, which should actually increase the profit, which means you get a better return than what you're boarded at. That's one, but two on the, on the, on the revenue side is being able to, because, you know, you know, the people that you mutually, uh, deal with, um, uh, you know, they might be able to be prepared to spend a bit more money.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 43:33Speaker 00

  Uh, with, with T G B, which that's advertising, which increases the top line, which should open up the gap. So in other words, your gross profit should get better.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  One hundred percent.

• 43:41Speaker 00

  Get better. And then, and how, and what, and, and who's going to run the show?

• 43:46Speaker 01

  So we've, we've got Tom Malone's the C E O.

• 43:49Speaker 00

  So Tom's going to stay.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  He's going to stay, um, Brian's the director of sales. We've got Harry, the financial controller, you know, we're backing the management team. We're taking on three hundred and thirty staff here. We've got to employ, you know, I had a journalist, you know, there was all this story about who's going to buy it and how they're going to slash and burn. If it's private equity, for example, which is what they normally do.

• 44:10Speaker 00

  Which is normally happens.

• 44:10Speaker 01

  How they make it. I need to hire thirty eight more people to actually stand this business up by itself. Because Channel Nine operate the back end of this thing at the moment. So I'm doing a deal right now. We've done the, the, the sales terms. I'm now working on with my sister and brother in law and dad, um, you know, with our lawyers and Channel Nine's lawyers on a shared services agreement because we're going to need some help from Nine for the foreseeable, you know, within six to twelve months. It's going to take us to stand this thing up on its own. So there's a lot of still detail that's actually being worked on. I'm over here in the States, I'm spending most afternoons on Zooms with lawyers and accountants trying to work out how we get all this done.

• 44:55Speaker 01

  But that's, the goal is to run it under a family umbrella, um. You know, David Coleman, he, he lost his seat at the last election, a member for banks.

• 45:04Speaker 00

  Love him.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  Great man. He is, this is his bread and butter, the, the merdiest space. He's consulting now and on.

• 45:12Speaker 00

  Well, most people don't realise, by the way, he was at nine.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, formerly worked for nine.

• 45:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, and he was on my board actually at the, it'll be great for a number of years.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  I didn't know that.

• 45:19Speaker 00

  And I, I worked with him. He's a very good operator.

• 45:22Speaker 01

  And he rang me the day that the deal was announced and he said, you know what? He said, this makes sense. He said, they don't see it yet, but this business under family ownership and, and the networks that you've got and the connections, this makes sense. And, you know, that's, that was really encouraging. We thought it. But when someone like David, as knowledgeable as he is in this space, says it, it's nice to have it reinforced.

• 45:50Speaker 00

  Now, and he's a, and, and he's the sort of guy, like, he's another super smart guy.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  And, and I think, I said to David at the time, I had you in mind to talk to post betting it down on digital opportunities moving forward. Now, he, he said, I'm consulting tonight, but my relationship with Matt Stanton now is that good and strong that I'm sure I could go to Matt and say, do you mind if I get David to consult to us too about opportunities for the business moving forward?

• 46:22Speaker 00

  So, so do you, do you see, um, the, uh, Laundy Radio assets, which is what they're now going to be referred to as, um, from one May, as political influence? Because, you know, like 2GB and 3W in particular have had a fairly liberal bent.

• 46:41Speaker 01

  And, and I, I don't see that, I don't see that changing. So.

• 46:45Speaker 00

  Because that's more, is that more the, is that more the broadcaster itself? Is that more the?

• 46:48Speaker 01

  It's, it's the personalities. So, you know, I, I use the term, on, on, you know, a journo asked me this que, the same question. I said, why would I buy a dog and then bark myself? You know, that's, the, the show and the beauty of those networks is they are, they are the subject of the host's point of view and ultimately the listener's point of view.

• 47:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  Because it's talk back, it's, it's call in, it's, it's talk. So a host may go into a morning or a, a breakfast period, afternoon, night with a set point of view. But the, the calls that result from that point of view when expressed could well be changed. You know, by the callers and the host could change their position on the spot in real time. And that's the beauty of talkback radio. I said to a journo, yeah, he said, when did you start listening to talkback radio? I rocked up at the Twin Willows Hotel Bottle Shop in 1989 as a casual, to work a casual shift of a night time there while at uni for pocket money. Um, and Stan Zamanik was on

• 47:55Speaker 01

  the radio stand. And I'd never heard talkback radio. I always listened to music. And the the person going out on the shift had the radio. And in the five minutes it took to to balance the float, to count the till, and cash him out and cash me in, I listened to Stan Zamanik for five minutes. I was hooked. It was just crazy. You did not know what was going to happen next. And, you know, that's the beauty of talkback radio. And and that, our challenge, Mark, is how we take it, you know, at at that stage at 18

• 48:35Speaker 01

  for me, I was a a music listener. I would have been Kyle and Jackie O fodder. How do we take the talkback listening media now, the market, from the 35 plus age range? And how do we use digital, um, you know, steps? And Lawrence is here recording this. He's going to be a key man in this. How do we use that, you know, the access to podcasts? There was one launch this week from, um, 2GB, Mark My Words. It was Mark Guyer, uh, Mark Levy, obviously the plays on the marks. But these sorts of platforms, we have access

• 49:18Speaker 01

  to. How do we use them to access new listeners?

• 49:22Speaker 00

  In terms of, uh, sport? Nine obviously owns the football rights and rugby league rights and other rights, but presumably they'll win the next lot of rights, probably have to pay a bit more if Landis has his way, but and the Nine Radio Group, which is now the Laundy Radio Group, has always shared in those rights in terms of content and talent. What will you guys better do going forward because obviously you're not going to go and buy the footy rights.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  No.

• 49:52Speaker 00

  Will there be some sharing arrangement?

• 49:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. Look, I can't imagine, this hasn't come up yet. I've thought of it as you've posed it. I can't imagine with the strength of the relationship we're building with Matt that we wouldn't be, you know, side by side, you know.

• 50:10Speaker 00

  It's like a mutuality.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 50:12Speaker 00

  It's beneficial.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  Sitting with them and saying, you know, we're here to do the radio, you know, the AFL and the rugby league is extremely important to the radio business. You know, what does it look like? The other thing for Matt, and we worked this out during the process, you know, Stan, as it currently sits, doesn't suit licensed venues. And we've got some strong ideas, particularly my brother in law Shane has strong ideas on, you know, how we could make that fit for purpose. Once that happens, you know, the rugby league rights into licensed venues becomes an interesting arena for Matt to think about as well, potentially. But, you know, this is all, we're still, you know, yet to go under the bridge.

• 50:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, this is future stuff, but I guess what you're saying is you've thought of these things.

• 51:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:02Speaker 00

  Because I think the perception is out there amongst people who don't know you and Arthur, et cetera, but the perception is out there, well, they're publicans, what the hell they're doing buying radio stations, what would they know about it? And I think one of the reasons I wanted to get this podcast done, and it's great, and I really appreciate you being able to do this whilst we're here in Vegas, but I thought it was also timely and to do it with you like live, straight after the footy match. But. What they don't realise is you guys have done the homework on this and all the synergies that exist that you're talking about, you know, the pubs, venues for sport, venues for sport, and it is mutually valuable for Nine for you to cross promote what they pay, they're going to pay money for.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  And Matt's worked that out. So, you know, you deal with it through these processes, Mark, you've been in many of them, you know, they are listed, they need to use an investment bank, you know, an advisor, an investing advisor. We don't need to do that, they do.

• 52:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  But the reality is this thing took me four months to do. Dad, myself, Shane and Danielle and I, four months to do. The, the, the part I'm proudest of, it never leaked because as a family, we are very tight knit and we just stick to our knitting and don't talk publicly often. But also, what I said to the investment bank in mid-January, we got to a point where, and I said this bluntly to Michael from Jeffries, you need to put Matt and I in a room now. It's come to a point where this needs to be him and me, I

• 52:41Speaker 01

  do I, building a relationship to get this done. Two days later, that was done. That meeting took an hour and a half. It's fair to say Matt had no idea, because we try to stay as under the radar as we can, of, of the breadth and the depth of our business and the, the, the relationship that we could form with him and, and the value add we could provide to Nine moving forward. But he, he knows that now and I saw him, like you did last night, you know, he's a straight shooter. I've enjoyed dealing with him. We've got this deal done, but there are many more things that we, I think we will do with them.

• 53:23Speaker 00

  Well, Matt understands numbers brilliantly and he said to me last night, it was actually a good deal for Nine. And I don't think he was necessarily talking about the price. I think he's talking about the future. And, and, and, and he did mention the sharing arrangements.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  The sharing arrangements, but also, Mark, you know, he's, it, it became. Very apparent through the process, there's three hundred and thirty staff involved. And we've now met them all. And it's fair to say, the relief that it's now going to be family run and that no one's going to be sacked. That was the big deal. And Matt got that. Yeah. Matt said, you are the logical place for this business to go. Because Matt wanted to look after his people, you know? And, and that, that is a great trait for a CEO to have. It's not often reported on the financial press because you live and die by numbers. But it became absolutely apparent through the process.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  That, you know, if we were to take over, we would not only not sack people, we'd need more people. And, you know, employing people, we've got now over three thousand staff, Mark, in the LaMond Hotel business. You know, employing people is something that we've been doing for four generations now in our family. It takes guts to do it. You've got to back yourself, you put your family home on the line. As you said earlier, the mortgage, the school fees, all of those considerations. But for a big CEO to, to identify early and then have the chat with me and say, you know what? This is the logical place for this business to go. He, you know, we, we explained our vision, we shared our vision.

• 55:05Speaker 01

  He bought in and, and I can't see us, you know, not having a good relationship moving forward. And is Arthur happy? Over the moon. You know, dad, you, you interviewed him and, and he, he juts back in time. In a lot of ways, he remembers stuff that happens sixty years ago better than what happened yesterday. Who is eighty something? He's eighty four, almost eighty five. Yeah. But he has this saying, he's only said it a few times. And um, he, he, I don't know if he says it to the other kids. He and I have a, I'm the oldest boy. He comes from a generation where the oldest boy is raised differently to, to the others. Yeah, old school. Yep, old school and, and hard, right?

• 55:47Speaker 01

  I've been raised hard and my brothers and sisters, I hope they listen to this, have got an easy run. But Stu, Stu, easy run. Um, but he, he has said this only a few times, but he said it when we got the deal done. He, he was sitting, I was sitting with him and he, and he chokes and I'm gonna, I'm gonna choke telling you this. He looks at me and he said, I wish my mum and dad could see, could see this. Yeah. And. That's, that's his benchmark.

• 56:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:16Speaker 01

  He's, he has fought for, he lost his dad at twenty nine. And, and I'm now choking up. He's lost his dad at twenty nine. He's spent the last, what's that, sixty six years? No, too many, fifty six years. Trying to make his dad proud. Without ever having the chance to have his dad tell him he's proud of him.

• 56:38Speaker 00

  That's amazing.

• 56:39Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm blessed because I've had the chance to have my dad. You know, when I was elected to parliament, become a minister, I had him there. And, and he tells me often, you know, not as often, he probably could again, that generation. Um, that he's proud of me, but I, I have him at eighty five. He lost his dad at twenty nine. And, you know, the gravity of this radio purchase. For him, how proud he is. It's as, it's as good as you get when he says, I wish my mum, mum and dad could see this.

• 57:09Speaker 00

  Wow. I mean, that's, I mean, I, I just think what you guys are doing, you know, in your sponsorship with the, of the dogs. And the, you know, the assist, helping the dogs build this fantastic family relationship and culture and the organisation and taking your family and actually doing this with two GB. And, and, and all the other radio stations and, um, you know, uh, trying to keep it in a good place, but improve it. And, uh, and the honesty you've just shared with us today. Actually, I'll tell you something very interesting, Craig, just watching you then. I remember your dad, when I did the podcast with your dad, right at towards the end, when he started talking about his family. He got quite emotional, as you have now. And, uh, as they say, the apple doesn't drop far from the tree. And I really appreciate your time, mate.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 57:54Speaker 00

  It's been brilliant. Actually, I really appreciate your time, but I appreciate your, your honesty. But your ability to explain things which are reasonably complex, but you explain things in. A publican's way, the way you would at the pub.

• 58:08Speaker 01

  Or in retail politics.

• 58:10Speaker 00

  And retail politics.

• 58:12Speaker 01

  And I've always said this, being a politician is very similar to being a publican.

• 58:16Speaker 00

  Bring back Craig Laundrie, where's the camera? Bring him back, I want him back.

• 58:20Speaker 01

  And you know what, and I hope, running a Talk Back radio station, I sent a memo out to the staff, Dad and I did on the day we took over, and I used, my son Charlie, who's a great wordsmith.

• 58:31Speaker 00

  I know Charlie.

• 58:31Speaker 01

  You know Charlie? And he helped me pen it, because he's a far better wordsmith than I am. I got him to put in the term, in the middle of it, and Lawrence would have seen it, um, first time caller, long time listener, long time listener, first time caller. And I signed off the memo by saying, long time listener, first time owner. And, and that's, that, that's the mentality we take in anything we do. I know we've talked pubs and radio today, we're, we're in other businesses. But, you know, it's that mentality, family business is, is, you know, at our core. And, um, and you get it, you, you've done it.

• 59:13Speaker 01

  And, which is why we've got on so well for a long time now, but it's, it's such a thrill to be with you today. I can't believe that you asked me to do it.

• 59:21Speaker 00

  Are you serious?

• 59:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I, I got, I got a real thrill that you asked me to do this, because.

• 59:27Speaker 00

  I find it as a privilege, I, I got surprised you agreed to do it, particularly in Vegas, I knew you'd be busy.

• 59:31Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, it's, it's, it's, it's such a, it was a thrill and honour. You've got such a great following and, and you do this so well. And it's very relaxed and comfortable to open up to you because we're friends. And, uh, and I respect you and, and, and what you've done. So, mate, I'm thrilled to be here and it's in Vegas and dogs won last night, so what could possibly go wrong?

• 59:53Speaker 00

  You can't get any better, thanks mate, appreciate it.

• 59:55Speaker 01

  Good on you, Mark. Cheers, mate.