“My Mind’s in Places That Are Unspeakable”: Paul Gallen on Nelson Fight, Career & Life

Paul Gallen has had 19 professional fights, captained the NSW Blues in State of Origin and played 32 Tests for Australia. Now, at 45, he’s stepping back into the ring against a man 15 years younger, 30 kilos heavier and 8 inches taller. This is a raw conversation about where that toughness actually comes from: growing up in Western Sydney, being kicked out of home at 13, and building a life on a refusal to quit. No PR spin, no highlight reel. Just Paul Gallen, talking straight. For more content like this: Subscribe to the Mentored newsletter here: https://the-mentored-platform-pty-ltd.myklpages.com/l/WWJGc5 Join our exclusive Mentored community:https://mentored.com.au/become-a-member/ https://mentored.com.au Executive Producer: Samuel Morgan Head of Production: Jonah Mclachlan See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Paul Gallan, well, we'll straight talk, mate.

• 0:02Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me, mate. I've seen this plenty of times, so.

• 0:04Speaker 00

  You're in the hot seat, mate.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Privilege to be here, mate. It's good to be here.

• 0:07Speaker 00

  You, well, you are definitely in the hot seat. You, you got Nelson this Friday night. Like, it's a, it's a big fight. Well, he's a big dude you're fighting. Um, how are you feeling?

• 0:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm okay. I based it all on my preparation as to how I go into things and my preparation's been pretty good. Um, you know, the start of this preparation, I was probably gonna take a little bit easier. Um, I didn't really plan on doing much sparring.

• 0:30Speaker 00

  What does that mean? Yeah, let's explain what that means.

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Well, in years gone by, I, I pride myself throughout rugby league and in boxing, I'll train really hard. Now, leave and stay non-turn, you know, and in boxing, I probably sparred too much at times. My trainer's always trying to hold me back, but I generally do what I wanna do and, um, yeah, probably sparred, sparred a fair bit. Um, and this one, I thought, you know, there's no point in taking too much damage this one. I was getting to have a red hot crack for a few rounds and see what happens. And, and that's it. And that was my attitude at the start of it, but after a few weeks, I, I couldn't do it. I had to.

• 1:01Speaker 00

  Get into it hard.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  Tear and rip into it and, and I did. And we found some really good sparring partners, some big, big dudes to spar with and, um, some big punches. And, ah, yeah, got through all that okay, thankfully.

• 1:13Speaker 00

  I wanna go back to Paul Gallan, um, like as a kid. I mean, like, here you are, sitting here. I mean, you, you, you've done amazing. You've played a huge number of rugby league games at, at first grade, Origin, for your country, captain Origin. Um, but then if, you know, you, you just haven't had a boxing career, you, you're not like a, you know, like a Johnny come lately. You've had like 95. How many fights you had?

• 1:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I had two amateur fights and, uh, this will be my 20th pro fight.

• 1:37Speaker 00

  20th pro fight. So that's the real deal. And, and blokes I talk to who, who know boxing say, you know, Gal's a real boxer. He's a real fighter. He's not a rugby league player trying to become a boxer. He's a boxer. He's a real fighter. You've proven, proven that. And you fought, by the way, you fought some pretty serious guys. We'll talk about it a bit later, but blokes like, you know, Huni and, you know, Mark Hunt, like, and, and Sonny for that matter too. Sonny's a real deal.

• 1:59Speaker 00

  But I wanna go back to who Paul Gallan is. Like, where'd you grow up?

• 2:04Speaker 01

  Grew up in Greystones. So I was born in Guilford, grew up in Greystones and, uh, had a very normal childhood, to be honest with you. So I was probably 11 or 12 years of old, and then, um, you know, pretty much the old Western Sydney story, you know, parents get divorced and things get a little bit hard. And, um, yeah, that's what happened. Parents got divorced and, um, yeah, mum and dad split and, you know, it was a, it was a tough time for, for us.

• 2:27Speaker 00

  How old were you, 14?

• 2:28Speaker 01

  I was probably 12, 13, 13-ish at the time. And, um, yeah, I went a little bit off the rails as well. I, I've got, uh, two brothers and two, I've actually got three sisters and two other brothers. And I found out about another sister a little bit later on. But, well, I was living with, there was five of us at the time and, um, dad did what I suppose a bloke does. And went and lived the, the single life and, um, you know, I were with mum and, and I wasn't getting on well with mum. And I was playing up a bit and getting in trouble in all sorts of different ways and, and really went off the rails. And mum really had no choice but to kick me out. So I was kicked out of home. I spent some time.

• 3:03Speaker 00

  How old, how old?

• 3:04Speaker 01

  I was probably 13.

• 3:05Speaker 00

  Kicked out of home at 13?

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, um, yeah, like I, I was, I was looking back at it. Look, I, I resent mum sometimes for it and me and mum have a, you know, we're, we're okay. And we didn't have a bad relationship, but you know, it was up and down sometimes. And, um, you know, but looking back at my actions and being a father now, it's, you know, I was, I was no good. And I needed to be pulled into line and she tried to put me in a home and, um, I wouldn't go. I refused to go. So I sort of floated around a few places for a little while. And then, um, my auntie, Auntie, Auntie Suey took me in. And, um, yeah, absolutely, you know, God sent for me, blessing for me. They, they, they can't have very many kids unfortunately, but they took me in.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  And I've been forever grateful of what they did to me, uh, taking me into their house and, uh, yeah, making sure I was fed and clothed and, and all the rest of it. And still going to school. And, um, yeah, so that, that turned out to be great for me and for me. And then I always, I just wanted to be my dad, you know? I was, I was a boy. I wanted to, I wanted to be a father figure in my life. And I just wanted to be with dad. And it probably took dad a year or so to get his act together. And, um, he got his act together, started to live with him. And then, yeah, that was a, and that was, that was a dream come true for me. I was like, I was with my dad. It was, it was awesome for me. But, um.

• 4:17Speaker 00

  Was he like a hero?

• 4:18Speaker 01

  He was, yeah, he was. Um, but then, yeah, live, live with my dad, living a single life at 14 years of age.

• 4:23Speaker 00

  Yeah. His single life, yeah.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  His single life. Um, yeah, it was, it was a different, it was a different, you know, I look at my kids now and the age they're at and how I'm bringing them up and what I want them to be. And, and I look at some of the things I was exposed to and I saw and, you know, it was, it was, it was different.

• 4:38Speaker 00

  We learned what not to do.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, at the time, it was just life. It was just what, what we did. It was just what, what happened. And, um, yeah, but, but now I look back, I look at my age now and my kids now. I think, God, yeah, that's, it was, it was pretty crazy what, what we sort of did. And, yeah, but anyway, I got through it thankfully and, uh.

• 4:57Speaker 00

  But do you, Gal, actually, do you think that when you're that age and if you're mucking up, do you think that's a result of your own character? Or do you think that is something that you're, you become as a result of mum and dad? And I'm not looking to blame here, not, not a blame thing, but like just the influences of what you, what you can get away with.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. I, I, I do think, I do think a lot of people are proud of their environment and, and I do think you, you learn off what you see. But I also think that can be taken as an excuse. I, I put it this way, I, I seen what I saw, know what we did with my dad. And I had every excuse in the world not to be where I am now. Every excuse to be in a, you know, not where I am, to, to go down the wrong path. I had very good friends get down the wrong path. My best friend was a kid's dad. Um, you know, I, I could have gone down the wrong path quite easily. And that would, it would have, it would have been an easy excuse. But, you know, so I do think, yes, you're a predator of environment. You do learn from what you see. But I do think you can also use it as an excuse. And I didn't use it as an excuse. I, I wanted to be better. I wanted to get out of that life. I didn't want to.

• 6:05Speaker 00

  But that's a good point, better. Because, Gal, you are renowned for being good with the dollar.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:12Speaker 00

  And by the way, I am too. So is that because you never had anything?

• 6:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, probably. I, I also think the renown for winning a dollar is a little bit overstated too. We can go and discuss it later. But, but I'm, I'm never gonna deny I love money and it makes life.

• 6:24Speaker 00

  And we're careful with it too.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I am. And it makes life easier for me. And I think, yeah, looking back at, um, you know, I, I do, I do remember times growing up. Where hearing mum and dad argue about money and talk about money. And I, I do remember things like that and, and living with dad. And, you know, I remember dad, um, we lived in the house and, uh, you know, the, the garage got a tree fell in the garage and we couldn't pay to fix it. So I just sat there and, you know, and so I do remember things like that were tough. Um, and I suppose that is partly why I wanna be comfortable. And I wanna live life and be able to do whatever I wanna do, whenever I wanna do it. That's always been my goal in life. I wanna be able to do whatever I wanna, I wanna do when I wanna do it. And, uh, and thanks for being able to build a life like that for myself.

• 7:06Speaker 00

  Because that, that's a big mission in life though. I mean, at what point do you think you worked out, well, I'm gonna use rugby league for that process?

• 7:15Speaker 01

  When I, when I was probably, you know, 16, 17, uh, I started to make a couple of rep teams.

• 7:22Speaker 00

  At Parramatta?

• 7:23Speaker 01

  At Parramatta, made the Parramatta SG Bullside. And the Harmanthi side at Parramatta, um, uh, I didn't make it the first year. The second year, I, I, I think I had a shoulder issue. I didn't even trial. And I, and I probably might not have made that side anyway. Um, then the, uh, SG Bull year come around, I was year young for it. I didn't even trial, but was playing some good first, playing with a lot of the guys that were in the side. Like on, from one of my plays on the weekend and I was going, I was going pretty good. I was like, I was holding my own. I'm thinking to myself when I'm finishing games, I'm as good as him. And he's playing for, he's playing rep footy, you know, a year up. So when it was my own age, I went and trialled for Parramatta, made the side. And then, um, yeah, from there, things just kicked on. And then I, then I thought to myself, this is a good opportunity for me. So, and I was lucky enough, I got on really well with, uh, Gareth Cleo, who was Noel Crusher Cleo's son.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  And I had a bit of an, I was around there, played a fair bit and got to talk to Crusher a fair bit. So, um, I had a bit of an insight there as to a few things going on at Parramatta. And, and Crusher, probably at the back end of my school life, where I had the opportunity to stay at Parramatta or go to Cronulla. Uh, having a good conversation with Crusher probably helped me, or probably pushed me a little bit towards Cronulla, which, which turned out to be the greatest thing ever did.

• 8:30Speaker 00

  Because like, if you remember, you'll remember well, Cronulla was, is a big step up from the west, like when I grew up in the west, if same as you. Like, to go down to Cronulla, it was a big deal. Like, it was about 40 million train stops. And as soon as they got there, somehow they recognized you were from the west.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  They knew.

• 8:49Speaker 00

  They knew.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  I remember when I, when I first went down, they put me in the, in the shop. I actually tried to travel for the first few. I didn't wanna leave home. I didn't wanna leave my friends and I travelled to it, but it was too hard. Back then, there was no minimum wage. I was a plumber. I was working as an apprentice.

• 9:00Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. I done, uh, two, two and a half years of that. So I was working as apprentice plumber, uh, with the guy from the shop. I had to get down there. Someone would pick me up, go to work. It was a night, like it was just such long days. And, um, eventually I said, I, I can't do this. So they put me into a shark house and the shark house was in a place called Savannah Waters, which is a beautiful.

• 9:17Speaker 00

  I know. My, my parents moved to Savannah Waters.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  It's a beautiful part of the world. I went, I moved in there.

• 9:23Speaker 00

  They used a river and people had water, waterfronts and everything.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  Waterfronts, yeah. Well, we went on one of the waterfronts, went in the shark house and went in the back streets. But, um, yeah, when you, when you talk to the neighbours, they, they looked at you a bit funny and knew exactly where you were from the area.

• 9:36Speaker 00

  But does that something that inspire you though? Do you go, wow, this is, uh, I, I, I wonder I wanna live here. I wanna live like that.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  I'll never forget, um, there, there's a place, Woolware Road. And, uh, you know, I, I remember when I was on my first contract, I spoke to my boss at the time, when I was a plumber. Um, he's passed away unfortunately, but he, he, he told me about Woolware Road, called it Millionaire's Mile. And I remember driving down there whenever I just had some time or on the way from train or to train or wherever it was, I'd drive down Woolware Road. And, um, I remember thinking, God, imagine being able to live here, you know, and, and sure enough, I now live there.

• 10:09Speaker 00

  Oh, wow. You're serious?

• 10:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. So that was a, that, that was a huge inspiration for me. And, um, yeah, to be able to get a bit of insight off local people to help me. But, um, yeah, that does definitely inspirational, moving, moving to an area and just seeing a different part of life, seeing different people. Um, you know, that's no knock on the west. I, I'm, I'm a westie. I, I consider myself a westie. I love it. I, I love, I love the west. I love the hardness of it. I, I love driving back out there. I still got family that live out Penrith. And I love driving out Warrington and, and just driving around the street, just seeing the house. Like they're, they're all single level houses, just old brick houses that are.

• 10:43Speaker 00

  Doing their best.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  That, that the grass is like not even green. It's, I, I love just driving through it and just seeing it, seeing the hardness of it. And I think that's where, you know, I, I think there's a lot of tough people out there. And I don't, I don't like, I don't wanna discredit people out there. Cause that's not what I'm trying to do at all. But I just, I love the hardness of the west.

• 11:00Speaker 00

  There, there's something really genuine and authentic about it. Like, um, and to some extent, you know, your reputation as a footballer. And also as a boxer, but let's just go back to footy, is that?

• 11:13Speaker 00

  You didn't have a great, it's not like you're a kicker or a sidestep or whatever like that. I mean, but you were a tough, big engine, tough player. You had a big engine and you played tough. To some extent, it sort of describes how it is living up, growing up in the West and how the West is today. Still, I mean, they're tough bastards.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree. And that's, and that's what I do. Pride myself a little bit, the fact

• 11:34Speaker 00

  that You pride yourself on that?

• 11:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do. Absolutely. And then it is a hard place to live. It is a hard place to grow up. It's even harder now, I think. I mean, when I was a kid, look, my teenage years, as I said, I was a bit of a rat and there was a lot of trouble and a lot of things I saw. But I think it's gone to another level these days. There's some of the gangs there, which I would love to see still with the shootings and the stuff. That's just not good. Like, we used to get in fights and have a fight and you'd go home and you'd probably sit down and talk about it on the drink for an hour or two when you got home and that'd be it. These days, unfortunately, you'd have a fight and they're probably coming back in a day or a week or two later and shooting each other.

• 12:13Speaker 00

  Drive by?

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's sad and I wish that part of it would stop. But yeah, there's no doubt, me being from there and having the upbringing I had has been part of the reason I am as hard as what I am and as tough as what I am.

• 12:28Speaker 00

  Do you think that's the fabric of Paul Gallon though? Because I mean, the fact that you've even accepted this fight after having, you know, been out of, haven't been, haven't had fought for a while, sort of demonstrates either you're mad, like, you know, I'm serious. So you're like, you're not mad in a like stupid way, but like you're a crazy bastard and you'll take on anyone, anytime. Or alternatively, it could also indicate that Paul Gallon backs his toughness, even though he is, what are you, 15 years old and Nelson, I don't know, something like that. Yeah. Either one or the two, potentially both. And that, and those things sort of always go back to how you grew up as a kid and where you grew up. Which, which one is it? Like, are you mad? Not mad?

• 13:12Speaker 01

  No, I'm not mad. I'm actually quite, you know, particularly in recent years, you know, I'm 45. I know who I am as a person. I, you know, my circle's getting smaller. Yeah, I just think, there's probably, there's probably a little bit of both in it. Yeah, probably a little bit of both, I'd say.

• 13:31Speaker 00

  But, because I do remember talking to you a little while ago about it and, you know, before you, before it was sort of announced and agreed. And my sense is that I think you're much more strategic than mad. I think you assess things quite deeply, like, like deep down, like way down. You work out, is this worthwhile for me? Is, is it, is there enough in it for me? Is there a good enough chance of, look at the risk? How bad, how, what's the chance of getting really hurt? What's it like to prepare? What's it going to be like preparing for it? And is there a likely outcome that I think I can get?

• 14:13Speaker 00

  That's pretty strategic. I mean, a gal's pretty strategic.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  You're a, there's a guy named Steve Johnson, who, when I got in trouble from the NRL many years ago for, calling them a nasty word, they, they got to stop me playing for Australia, New South Wales and suspend me for, unless I'd done this course with Steve Johnson. I wouldn't have done this course with Steve Johnson. I sat in his office for the first time and within half an hour, I was blown my eyes out because he was like, he picked me apart to a T and you've just, you've just done the same thing. So, yeah, I am strategic. And look, this fight, I did evaluate all that. And I think I said earlier, I evaluated the contract and how I did the contract and I did a little bit different where there's a little bit of upside involved if the pay per view numbers go good. At the end of the day, I'm walking into a controlled environment, a boxing ring with a referee

• 15:00Speaker 01

  there that's there to protect me if I can't protect myself. You know, I back myself that I train hard enough and I prepare well enough. I'm not going to get hurt. There's not going to be any serious long-term effects. I've done a lot of, I can't say research, but my own investigation.

• 15:16Speaker 00

  You talked to a lot of people. I know you do.

• 15:17Speaker 01

  I talked to a lot of people. I've even spoken to you about certain things. I do. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, I do evaluate.

• 15:24Speaker 00

  You do your homework.

• 15:25Speaker 01

  I do my homework. Yeah. I'm not just a bloke that just rushes into things. I do my homework extensively, particularly around, you know, I like property, particularly around property and things like that and investing money. I do that. And to be able to have a fight like this and earn the money I'm going to be able to earn, that's going to help me do other things with my life going forward.

• 15:43Speaker 00

  Because it seems to me that there's a high level of responsibility to Paul Gallon. Paul Gallon seems to be really interested in being a great father, a great husband. And I don't know about the rest of the family, at least a great father and a great husband at this stage, right? There's probably a whole lot of other things you want to be good at, friend, et cetera. But, and, and put in fighting or boxing, it just means to an end. And you've got a clear objective in front of you. Really clear objective in front of you.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  You should be a counselor.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're right, mate. That's, yeah, that's it. And my sole purpose in life is to provide for my kids. I don't like saying I want to have my kids have a life I never had because I wouldn't be around me unless I had the upbringing I had.

• 16:27Speaker 00

  A little bit cliched too.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I don't like saying that. And I don't like, you know, I don't, I feel like I put my parents down a little bit there where I don't want to. That's not what I'm trying to do. But yeah, you're right. It is a means to an end. And I want my kids to have the best life I can possibly give them. That's, I'm very old school. Like, my, yeah, my wife doesn't work and, and, you know, she can go work if she wants. So I'm not an old school bloke who says, yeah, you can't work, you know, work the woman stays. And that's not the case at all. But, yeah, my, my objective in life and my sole purpose in life is to provide for my family as best as I possibly can and to give them a life I never had and be able to do things, to be able to do whatever we want to do, whatever we want to do. That, that's, that's my sole purpose in life. That, that's what I want to do now in life.

• 17:10Speaker 00

  Would you call that your sole, like, is it really like it?

• 17:12Speaker 01

  I think, I think it is. For me, well, yeah, I've, I've had a wonderful time. Like, I could not have imagined the rugby career I had to be able to play for my coach. When I was a kid, I never went for any NRL team. I only went for the Blues. That's all I cared about. So be able to play for New South Wales. Like, mate, that was, that was like the, the best thing I ever did. Then be able to play for Australia, and that was 32 times. And to play with, like, Cameron Smith, in my opinion, is the greatest player of all time, ever. To be able to play with him and have a friendship with him, that's, and he's a pain in my ass for a long time. Don't get me wrong. But, you know, be able to play with guys like that and tell my kids I play with people like that. Like, it's, that's just a, it's, I can't believe it. I still can't believe it now. And I just think that was so unreal for myself. But, so to be able to do that, I feel like I've had, I feel

• 17:57Speaker 01

  like I've had my time. I feel like my time now is to give back to my family. That, that's so, is it my sole purpose? Yeah, maybe. Yeah, I think it is. I think it is. I want to have fun. I want to enjoy myself with my friends. I've got a very small circle of friends, as I've said, very, very small. Through, through a four mates, that's about it. And I love spending time with them and being with them and having a drink with them and enjoy myself. I love that. So I enjoy that. But my, my, I go to bed at night, I'm a, I'm a big thinker. I'm constantly thinking about how I can better my life, how I can better my kids' life. And, you know, I suppose that's, that's what I do do. Yeah. Most nights when I go to bed, I think about

• 18:34Speaker 00

  Really?

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I do. I think about what, what can I do next to, to make our life more comfortable? I'm constantly thinking that, yeah. Whether it be business, business, property, whatever it might be, I'm always thinking, yeah.

• 18:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's, if you go back, if I go now back, and I can't help this because I'm and I'm like, I love Origin. I just like love it. I mean, I was sponsored for a lot of times, but I just love the thing. If you go back, when you were first, when you started playing Origin, Paul Gallon always had a massive engine. You weren't the biggest guy. I mean, in terms of height, I mean, you know, weighing the same as everybody else and whether you're playing a lock or, or front row, you weigh in the same as everybody else. Did you always take a view that, all right, I might not have the step, et cetera, but at the same time, I'm just going to put 110% in? Did you think that to yourself that I'm going to end up playing Origin? Did you, was that something that you said to yourself?

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, not, not really. I suppose when, when I started playing first

• 19:33Speaker 00

  Or did you get selected?

• 19:34Speaker 01

  When I started playing first grade, you know, I just was happy to be playing first grade. And then when I started after Euro 12, I thought, I'm going to ride. I want to, I want to better myself. I want to, I want to make city country. I want to play State of Origin. And I just kept getting better and better. And, and I did. And my mindset when I went and played footy was that, yeah, I wasn't the biggest guy. I was pretty short compared to most other forwards. I always weighed about 100, 300, 4 kilos. By the back end of the crim, I was about 105, 106. Most forwards, they'd say, getting on 115, 120. So I wasn't, I wasn't the biggest guy. But I always had the attitude that, mate, you might, you might hit me hard. You might hurt me the first time I run. You might even hurt me the second or third. But I'm coming 20 times. Let's, let's see where

• 20:17Speaker 01

  we're at. Let's see where we're at at the 80th minute when I've come 20 times to you. Let's see where we are then. That, that was always my attitude my whole career. And that's my attitude in boxing too. Like, Nelson's going to be hard. He's going to be a big hard man and he's going to hit me. You know, if he hits me big enough, it's going to hurt. But at the end of the day, I've got the attitude that, yeah, I'm going to be able to take your shots. You're going to have to, you're going to have to be still throwing them punches at the back end of the fight. And let's see how you go on then. So you'll be able to for the first round, first two, three, maybe the second round too. But let's see you're at it 14, 15 minutes. That's my attitude for my whole sporting life. And that'll be my attitude in this fight as well.

• 20:54Speaker 00

  Because most, a lot of people don't realise, I mean, how many, how many rounds did he do with Hurney?

• 20:57Speaker 01

  10 rounds.

• 20:58Speaker 00

  10.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:59Speaker 00

  Like, 10 rounds? That's, and by the way, we're talking about an Olympic boxer. I'm not sure. I can't remember if he went to Olympics. He broke, he did something. He did, he hurt himself.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  I, I lost, I lost the battle, but I won the war. I told him he wouldn't be going to Olympics.

• 21:11Speaker 00

  Because it was because of you.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  He broke his hand on my head.

• 21:14Speaker 00

  That's right. That's right. It was, it was your fight. Exactly. Because I, because I couldn't believe that his father put him into that fight, just before the Olympics, like three months later. But obviously, they, they either underestimated yourself or you, or they overestimated him. But that's still 10 rounds with a bloody good fighter.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  He should, he should have won a world title.

• 21:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  Against Fabio Waddie. He was in the 11th round. He'd won nine of the first 10 rounds. Won nine of the first 10 rounds. Like, I won one round against Jassuni.

• 21:40Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  So Fabio Waddie had won one round against him in 10 rounds and he's just got caught with a punch and unfortunately stopped him. Like, yeah, like, and he's, he's a, I

• 21:51Speaker 01

  After the first round of this, of the fight, I, I turned to the corner and went, oh shit, what have I done here? Like, we, we actually flew a guy, Joe Goodall, who's also an Olympian. Um, uh, he, we got told him and Huni were neck and neck in sparring and we, we flew him down for two or three weeks and paid for him to, to spar us and train. And, and he, he was a good guy and a really, really good fighter. And, and I thought I was, you know, holding me home with him. So I went in reasonably confident. And then after the first round, I was like, oh,

• 22:16Speaker 00

  He could move for a big guy.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  Mate, he's, he was, uh, here than here than here. Like, speed, speed was crazy.

• 22:22Speaker 00

  But you still stood in front of him for 10 rounds.

• 22:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it was, um, as I said, I was, I was, I always had the mentality that, as I said, let's see where he's at at the eight, nine, 10 round. Um, and, uh, yeah, he, he was still there. He was still very good.

• 22:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, but that, that, that's sort of, um, determination that Paul Gallen has and the fact that you're prepared to back yourself. But also there's something, um, genetically there going on because, you know, you can back yourself, you can be determined, but like, if you don't have the genetics to do it, there's something inside your system that allows you to keep going. I mean, like at Origin, like, let's go back to, I, I can't go past this moment when you went, when you punched Nate Miles in the head. I'll never forget that. Um, cause if you remember when he was playing for Queensland, cause in those days he was playing for the Roosters too, but I remember he used to lead with his head. He always, cause he had this real hard melon on him. And I'm serious. And, uh, and when you were playing, when you played that game, was that 2014?

• 23:16Speaker 01

  13.

• 23:17Speaker 00

  13. Um, when you hit him on the, I can't remember where you hit him. I think, I can't remember which part of his melon you hit him on, but I, I still recall punching in State of Origin got banned after that.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  They did, yeah.

• 23:26Speaker 00

  That, that was from that one event.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was, so we got told, yeah, that was the straw that brought the camel's back. I was thinking about doing it for, for a while. And then that, that was obviously a, a big moment. Uh, State of Origin, the, the biggest, uh, platform in rugby league and, and they banned it after that. And, uh, yeah, look, I, I get spoken about often, I get asked about often, particularly around Origin time, going to events. And look, I'm, I'm really not proud of it. Uh, I'd, I would much rather have won the series than be remembered for punching Nate Miles in the head. Uh, I've, I've spoken to Nate about it. We've done lots of events together. Um.

• 23:57Speaker 00

  He's got a hard head, hasn't he?

• 23:58Speaker 01

  He's got a hard head and now it, the, the, yeah.

• 24:00Speaker 00

  But he was leading with his head all the time.

• 24:02Speaker 01

  Leading with his head, mate. And at the end of the day.

• 24:04Speaker 00

  And knocking blokes out.

• 24:05Speaker 01

  Leading that series, Laurie shows a video of every time we'd score a try. And I understand why Queensland is, I played for a lot of, a lot of test matches with all of them. They, their motto was compete to the end, compete right to the very end. So do whatever, whatever it takes to, to try and stop a try and keep competing. So if someone was going to score a try, they'd jump on your legs or jump on your head or do, do whatever they could right to the la, very, very last second. My good, and, and we, we could show in a video of Nate leading with his head and us scoring tries and blokes jumping on us late. And, and I said, look, if this, if that happens, I'm going to do something about it. I've had enough to, we'd, we'd lost the faith for you series in a row. Um, Michael Jenny scored a try early in that match and, and someone jumped on him very, very late. And I said, it might have even been us. If you did it again, I'm going to punch in the head. And there was a bit of, a bit of to and fro after the try. And then leading half time, there was a, Nate

• 24:50Speaker 01

  was taking a hit up and I did give him a little bit of a cheap shot in the tackle and he gave me one back. And there was a few words spoken and, um, yeah, that, that's what it'll happen. And things blew up after that. Um, obviously with the game and it was banned. But as, as I said, I, I don't, I get a bit awkward talking about it cause it's not something that I'm proud of. It's not something I, I want to remember or I want to talk about. But I've got to answer questions about it. The, the thing that I get a bit frustrated, I played with Nate for Australia after that. We got on pretty well, but we've done a fair, fair few events about it since. And yeah, we, we don't really get on. I think Nate's still not happy about it. Um, so I, I, I, yeah. We're actually got a lot of mutual friends, a lot of mutual friends and we really don't like each other. Nate doesn't like me and I don't like him either.

• 25:32Speaker 00

  You sort of hear about it in the back chat?

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Well, I hear, no, no, no, we never, we never bitch back. Oh, I know, I never talk about it. I honestly never talk about it. I'll never hear from other people that Nate whinges about it. There's nothing like that at all. But we've got a lot of mutual friends and everyone tells me he's a good bloke. And I'm sure people say that, no, he's actually a good bloke, but we just, we just don't gel.

• 25:49Speaker 00

  Like, given you've had 19 fights, which is a lot. Um, and you've got the big fight on Friday night against, um, Big Nelson, Big Nasty, um, who's like, how, how tall is he by the way?

• 26:02Speaker 01

  He says six, seven. I, I, I don't really care how tall he is. He's, I reckon he's six, six, six, seven. But yeah, but between a guy who's six, four, six, five and six, six is what he is. It's, it's that far. It's eight inches, not, yeah. A lot of people get thrown off about the, the, the height difference in boxing. And yes, like, if you know how to use that height and that range, they say a big man should always be, a, a good big man should always be a good little man in boxing. That does, but you've got to know how to use it. You've got to be able to move. Boxing's, there's a lot of movement in boxing.

• 26:33Speaker 00

  Um. Is he a straight on target?

• 26:36Speaker 01

  He's, he's, he's, he's going to be there.

• 26:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  He, he's a hundred and thirty five, a hundred and forty kilo.

• 26:40Speaker 00

  Hard to move.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. He hasn't done boxing from the time he was a kid. Had he done boxing from the time he was a kid and wanted the basics of it.

• 26:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, he, he would be, he'd be elite. But mate, he's a hundred and thirty five kilos, taking it up at 29 years of age. He's a big puncher. He can punch harder. If you, if I stand still, it's going to hurt me.

• 26:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  But I'm not going to stand still for him. I'm not going to be there for him. He's not, I'll be there one second, I'll be gone the next. You know, that's, that's, that's my plan. But so for him, him to be able to, you know, dance and move around and keep me at range like he says he's going to do, I, I don't see it. I can't see it happening. And for me to get to him, I've only got to go forward that far. It's not, it's, it's a step. Now, I, I, I can't step straight into him because he would just have his hand down and whack me. I, I can't step straight in him. But, you know, when you know a little bit of boxing, you know how to move and you create angles and you're coming in from different directions, it's not as hard as people think.

• 27:25Speaker 00

  Obviously everyone keeps talking about it, but the uppercut, I mean, and he's got this long, long arm and he seems to get up underneath the, the opponent's jab or depending whether it was southpaw or not. But he, he gets up underneath it, but you've got to let him do that. That's, that's, that's what other fighters have done so far. They've let him do it.

• 27:44Speaker 01

  They have. And, and at the end of the day, it was pretty much only Latschi. I think he might have got Wallace, but didn't hurt Wallace with it. He hurt Wallace with the right hand. Um, he got Latschi with it and it was a great punch. And it goes to show he does know what he's doing because Latschi, Latschi sort of was going in and he, he, he timed it. So Latschi actually walked straight on it. So he's, he's not hopeless. He knows what he's doing.

• 28:04Speaker 00

  He, well, he's got that one punch.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  He, he's got that one punch knockout power. We know that. Um, I, I know that. I just can't, you know, and he's going to throw it and I'm probably going to hit at some stage of it. But, you know, I've got to have my hands up, my hands underneath my chin, catch half it on the glove. If I don't catch it clean, um, you know, half it doesn't hurt me as much as it hurt other people.

• 28:22Speaker 00

  Because you, because you have fought some big punches like Mark Hunt, like one of the biggest punches in boxing, kickboxing, you know, I think he might've been world champion, K, K one or K two kickboxer. He was like third of three or four in the heavyweight UFC, considered to be one of the biggest punches of UFC history.

• 28:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:41Speaker 00

  Um, and he clocked you good. And I remember what, I mean, I watched the, I'm a good mate of Mark's and yours. And I was watching, you know, I thought it was important to watch it. And I was, I, I just saw the smallest wobble in you, uh, on your legs, but you managed to stay, stay standing. I don't know how the hell you did it.

• 28:57Speaker 01

  No, it was, it was around two. Um, he sort of got me behind the ear and, uh, yeah, I, when, when he hit me, uh, you know, it's funny when you're going to get, people are like, oh, did it hurt? It doesn't really hurt. It just, at the time, it doesn't hurt. You just get on and.

• 29:10Speaker 00

  Did you get buzzed?

• 29:11Speaker 01

  No, that, I didn't. I, I remember it all totally. So that, that's why I'm surprised. I did feel my legs wobbled. I knew they wobbled. Um, so when I got hit, I sort of just, just copped it and I was ready to stand back up. And then when I went, it was me, me, my legs wobbled there for.

• 29:23Speaker 00

  It was only second.

• 29:24Speaker 01

  It was only second, a split second. And, um, and then Mark come at me. It was probably about midway through the round. It was probably about a minute to go in the round. And, uh, yeah, when you do get stung a little bit, I suppose, as I said, in my mind, I was okay. But you, you, you, you senses everything out.

• 29:40Speaker 00

  Your reflexes aren't great.

• 29:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're not quite on. And for the rest of that round, Mark, Mark was on a load on me and I, I actually caught them all really good. I only landed another punch that round. But yeah, the bad last 36 of that round was, was pretty full on. Uh, looking, looking back at it, I sort of feel in that fight, I was probably the only real, real round he won. Uh, he might've won one other, but I think on the scorecards, I think I won five of the six rounds, if not four, at least four of the six. So, yeah, that, that was a, that was a, a moment, um, that could have changed everything. But no, thankfully I was, I was said, my head's hard for some reason. I managed to hold on and evade the rest of the punches.

• 30:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think he, I, I remember him telling me, he weighed like a hundred and thirty five kilos. I mean, he was, he was, he was pretty big.

• 30:19Speaker 01

  He was big. Like, Mark, Mark's not, not an athletic guy. And obviously it's weighing in the UFC, you got to weigh a hundred and twenty kilos below. And I'm pretty sure we always struggled to get below it. And I, I can't remember exactly what he weighed, but yeah, it's probably over, well over a hundred and twenty.

• 30:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, but there's a lot of weight behind that punch though.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  A lot, a lot of weight, mate. And at the end of the day, he, he's a, he's a renowned puncher. He's been, uh, uh, on the world scene, the world level for, for a long, long time. So.

• 30:41Speaker 00

  So you back yourself on that ba, on that basis though? You, you say what?

• 30:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I suppose the only difference is I was, I think I was thirty nine or forty then. So, you know, five, five or six years is, uh, you know.

• 30:52Speaker 00

  Makes a difference.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, who I can. Um, but not in my mind, it's not going to. No, I'm, I'm, I'm there. I'm here, mate. I'm there to win. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm winning this fight. I, I, you know, the, the age is what it is. I'll tell you what, I, I played for the Sharks my whole life and, and I, I, I listened to the, the way Fitchy talks to the boys. I go off and down there to, to, to the team and listen to how they talk. And, um, I've taken a fair bit in from a lot of what they say. And, and I think about sharks, right? I'm a shark. Sharks don't stop eating. They don't stop hunting because they're forty five. They, they, they gotta live. They gotta survive. They gotta keep going. And just because I'm forty five. Yeah, just I'm forty five, mate. I'm, I'm fucking going. Don't worry.

• 31:33Speaker 00

  Let's talk about the prep. Like, I, I'm not, I don't wanna know what your strategies are so much unless you wanna tell me, but people don't understand what the preparation looks like. So how long ago did you start prepping for this fight? Which is on Friday. How long ago did you start prepping for this fight?

• 31:46Speaker 01

  Uh, probably six, six weeks. I'd say a full six weeks.

• 31:51Speaker 00

  Which is a short, that's a short.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure. Which, which for someone my age and for a five round fighter isn't, isn't the worst thing. You know, some of the ten round fights is a three month preparation, but yeah, look, I'd probably say si- six weeks full on. The first two weeks, as I said, I was a little bit, you know, I knew what was gonna happen, but just, you know, yeah, let's just get it done type thing at days. But then I thought, no, for six weeks I've been on, I've been really on, um, training hard, um.

• 32:17Speaker 00

  What does it look like though?

• 32:19Speaker 01

  Uh, well.

• 32:20Speaker 00

  Monday to Friday.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  Everything from, from running, um, different, like long runs, four, five K runs.

• 32:26Speaker 00

  Maybe you just explain to the audience how important it is to get your legs right. Like, no, like, cause that, if your legs aren't right and you do get hit, you're more than likely gonna fall either.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, you, you need to be fit and healthy and, uh, obviously, but your, your legs are a big part of boxing and I've never, I never forget my first ever fight. Uh, fight for love card over in New Zealand, uh, fighting the guy named Hiccup Elliott, who no one would fight at the time. And, uh, you know, I said, I'll do it. And, uh, I was in the off season of rugby league. It was six minutes, three two minute rounds. No one would fight him and they ended up giving me sixty grand. I said, oh, hell, me, a hundred percent. So whatever, did it. Um, and, and one, one quite convincing to be honest. Well, never forget going out for the second, they're only two minute rounds too. So did the first round, went after the second round.

• 33:08Speaker 00

  Gassed.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  Oh mate, my legs. I, I literally almost couldn't feel my legs. And I remember thinking to myself, oh, this is what they mean when you lose your legs. And I thought, I'm in big trouble here. And managed to fight through it and get through it and, and, and got the win. But yeah, that, that was, that was the time, lucky it was my first fight, that I knew that, I mean, you need to do road work. You need to, you need to run. You need to have your legs conditioned for boxing, which is a, you know, a lot of people probably can't understand because you're throwing punches with your arms, you know, what, what do your legs do? But, um, yeah.

• 33:35Speaker 00

  The old job.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  Oh, a hundred percent. And maybe, and that, that was a big eye opener for me. And, uh, yeah, thankfully I, I, uh, I got stuck into, to the training and, and, and looked into the way boxers train and, uh, and train the way boxers train for all my fights. My body shape totally changed. Like as a rugby league player, you gotta have a bit of bulk. You gotta be, and I noticed this after my first couple of fights, particularly when I was fighting, say, early in the season, say, January, February, and then I'd go to rugby league starting in March, April. You know, I, I would, I'd, I'd trim right down. Now I'd, I'd be a hundred and two hundred, that's only building about a hundred kilos. But a lot of the times back in the day, I'd be a hundred and two, hundred and three kilos. I'd play footy a hundred and five, hundred and six. It was a lot of, a lot of difference. It's only three, three kilos max, but I think a lot of it was fat. And, and I'd start playing rugby league

• 34:22Speaker 01

  and I'd get bumps and bruises and I'd start getting hurt and sore. And it wasn't a, a year or so after, a couple of years that I realised your body shape totally changes from boxing to rugby league. You don't need the bulk. You don't need the muscle bulk to be a boxer, because the more muscle you have and the more bulk you have, the more oxygen you use to, to move your arms. So from, I had to learn that after I'd have my fight, I'd have to, I'd have to eat a whole lot more weight, do more weights, eat more food to put that bit of bulk back on. Otherwise I'd, I'd get, as I said, I'd get hurt and I wouldn't, I wouldn't be, you know, busted, but I'd just get bumps and bruises, sore ribs, um, you know, corks and I'd just get little bumps and bruises in rugby league. So, yeah, you, you definitely need to be a bit bulkier and footy and, and a bit leaner in, in, in boxing.

• 35:03Speaker 00

  Interesting segue for me because what it sort of tells me that, um, how many rounds is this, uh, Nelson, you and Nelson, what are you gonna do?

• 35:10Speaker 01

  Just five, five, five rounds.

• 35:11Speaker 00

  Okay, that, he's never done five rounds. So

• 35:15Speaker 00

  let's just talk about, cause you just talked about, uh, you know, gassing out through the legs, which is generally where it happens. Um, and it can happen second or third round. A lot of times it happens second round, beginning of the second round. Do you think to yourself, I've been down, I've done ten rounds. I'm now, I've trained appropriately for my age, et cetera, to get to do five rounds. Do you think to yourself in terms of strategy that I'm gonna take him to four or five?

• 35:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, that, that's all I'm gonna do. I, I.

• 35:42Speaker 00

  But you mean stay away?

• 35:44Speaker 01

  No.

• 35:44Speaker 00

  Or stay in?

• 35:45Speaker 01

  No, um, mate, I'm just fighting. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm just gonna fight him. At the end of the day, for me to score points, I have to get closer to the punch.

• 35:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, you have to.

• 35:51Speaker 01

  So yeah, I've got, I've gotta get closer to punching. Okay. So I'm gonna have to get in there, unload punches. You know, then, then I was evaluating at the time, do I, do I, have I scored my points? Have I done enough? Get out, get out safely. Or do I just stay there? Like it's, you know, I'm still learning punches. I'm just gonna stay there. So, oh, I, that, that, that's, at the end of the day, the strategy for this fight isn't hard to work out. He's gonna try and keep me around, he's keeping me away. I've gotta get closer to punching. But when I do get close to him, I've gotta evaluate then, okay, do I, do I score me two or three scoring shots and then get out? Or do I, do I keep going? That, that's what I've gotta vote. And, and I don't have an answer for that now because I've, I've gotta work that out on the night. But, but I, but I need to, I, I think I need to outpoint him. For, for me to like, at the end of the day, I'm, I'm not, I've never been known as a big puncher.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  Um, you know, we're a hundred kilos. If you land a good shot clean, it's gonna hurt. It's gonna, it's gonna hurt anyone. But I've got to land that punch clean. I've got to land it in, in the head, obviously. Um, my, my, my, my target, I don't even worry about his head. You know, I've got to, I've got to square this huge square to hit. Like he's a big man. I've got a huge target. Yeah, but I've got to look, look at the size of the target. I don't, people talk about his size and think it's a huge, it's a huge advantage to me. Like that body is enormous.

• 37:03Speaker 00

  But his head's the same size as everybody else, by the way. You don't put muscle on your chin.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  That's what I mean. But, but, but I'm not, I'm not even focused on that. That, that's not gonna be my main focus, the, the head. The, the scoring shots for me are the body and just, that's, and, and as I said, for me, to win the fight, I'm pretty sure I've got to outpoint him rather than knock him out. Cause I'd love to knock him out. Of course I would. But I've just gotta be realistic and, and understand I've gotta be prepared to go five rounds and just out, outpointing.

• 37:28Speaker 00

  Do, do, do you sledge? In the fight?

• 37:30Speaker 01

  Uh, nah, not during the fight. No.

• 37:32Speaker 00

  You don't talk to him?

• 37:32Speaker 01

  No, I never, no, too tired. Yeah, no, no chance.

• 37:37Speaker 00

  If you're gonna stay, cause most people say, would say, stay away from him. Stay, but you're, you're saying, no, no, I'm gonna get in on top of him.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  But I've, I've heard a lot of people say that, stay, stay away from him for two or three rounds. And man, if I stay away from him, how's he gonna get tired?

• 37:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  Like you, you're not gonna get tired.

• 37:53Speaker 00

  Well, you're making him chase you. If you know, not literally.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  But then, let, let me tell you, let me, let me tell you, and for anyone thinking, stay away from me. Go and jump into boxing ring and, and, and walk, walk backwards. Not walk, like try and shuffle backwards for three minutes.

• 38:07Speaker 00

  You're in trouble.

• 38:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I've done it as training, for training, because it is ridiculously hard. Throw on top of that.

• 38:13Speaker 00

  You can't punch going backwards.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  A monster trying to hurt you.

• 38:15Speaker 00

  And you can't punch going backwards. Or you can, but it's hard.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  You can, but like you've gotta be in a league boxing, and that, and that's not me. So, yeah, mate, just as a fitness drill alone, try and shuffle backwards for three minutes. And, and imagine someone, just get someone, just get someone to chase you. Just get someone to do it. And try and move it. It's a very, very hard drill.

• 38:33Speaker 00

  So, like, so in your training regime then, um, are there any things you're doing this time round that you haven't done before? Like, uh, maybe more running or you're doing, uh, more calisthenics or you're doing more sparring? I think you said you're doing less sparring. So.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  We, we started with less sparring, but the last, uh, couple of weeks, we, we've done a fair bit. Um, but probably done a little bit more, uh, running as far as, uh, it's not speed, we're not sprinting, because I can't sprint anymore. I haven't sprinted for a long time. But ru- running faster.

• 39:02Speaker 00

  High intensity.

• 39:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. So we're doing minute efforts. So, so, so running, running up hills as far as, as far as I can for a minute. Uh, doing that eight, eight, eight times. A minute on, two minutes off. So a minute on, you've got two minutes to get back to the start.

• 39:14Speaker 00

  The V H two max stuff.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, that stuff, yeah, yeah.

• 39:16Speaker 00

  So what, I mean, I've, I've seen stuff where, and I know that you, you do a bit of wrestling, you know, like a bit of jujitsu, yeah. And, uh, by the way, have you ever wrestled Fitzie? Who's now a black belt?

• 39:27Speaker 01

  I haven't, I haven't, I haven't, no. But, um, I haven't, but no, but I would mind one day, yeah.

• 39:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  But see, Fitzie's at, Fitzie's at that level now where he doesn't really, he tells me he doesn't really wrestle that hard. He must know about technique and that. So, but I wouldn't mind one day, yeah, but I haven't.

• 39:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, because, because wrestling's a big technique, especially with the Russians in boxing. I mean, like, uh, getting under hooks and, uh, over hooks and fucking their arm up a little bit, you know, like twisting their arms a bit. Fenwick loves it. And I, but, but I'm, I'm gonna be watching with a lot of intent because I'm, I'm thinking to myself, like if Gal gets in and just can overhook the guy's arm and just turn, you know? Oh, no. Oh, you're gonna say, no, no, no. Yeah, I know. Like, but it, but, but wrestling's important. Like, you see some of the great boxers from Russia? They do know how to wrestle.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 40:14Speaker 00

  Uh, Yusik's good at it and they, they, they'll grab them by, like, they'll send, they'll grab their elbows, pull their elbow forward, like, and, uh, you know, move their arm and the guy, of course, will move around. And you can sort of clock him with, with your right or, or your left, whichever one, whichever direction was. Are you thinking about a little bit of that sort of gamesmanship? Cause that'll fuck him up a little bit, like.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, there, there, yeah, there, there's a bit. Look, at the end of the day, when I get near him, he's gonna, he's gonna try and hold me. Now, you can't intentionally hold him boxing. You can't intentionally do it repeatedly. You, you get away with it times, but you can't repeatedly do it now. Um, yeah, that, that's what he's gonna try to do. Now he's a big hundred and forty kilo bloke latching on. It's, it's.

• 40:49Speaker 00

  He's gonna lean on you.

• 40:50Speaker 01

  He's gonna, I've, I've got to be strategic enough or careful enough that I, that I can't waste a heap of energy trying to

• 40:58Speaker 00

  Hold him up.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  Out wrestle him or hold him up. I, I can't, I, I can't do that. So, but there's gonna be at times where he's coming in and trying to hold me, where I can, yeah, yeah, move around him, um, do different things to, to create openings. And as long as I've got one hand free, still be able to punch him. There, there's definitely gonna be moments I, I can do that. And we've worked on that and, and I know exactly what to do. Um, but at the end of the day, he's, he's such a big person. If he's just latching on to me and gets hold.

• 41:24Speaker 00

  It'll wear you out.

• 41:25Speaker 01

  It, it'll wear me out. And I, I, to then try and fight against that and push it away and try, trying to create space that zaps, that, that's a, that's gonna use a whole lot of my energy. So I've gotta be strategic in how I do it.

• 41:38Speaker 00

  You have done, I've seen you do wrestling. I've seen you do, do jujitsu. Um. Which mostly on the ground, but have you doing, have you been doing any specific prep?

• 41:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have. Yeah, we've done some specific prep and been, been helped. I've been lucky enough. I, you know, when I decided to go into this, well, I went into it a hundred percent, but when I decided to start sparring some as good a guys as I can, we got, we got a young Blake, Ibia Muhammad. His name is, he's one of the top two or three amateurs in the country, six foot 10.

• 42:10Speaker 00

  No.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  Just turned 20. He's gonna be big when he grows up. Big, big man. Um. Got him in for sparring and, uh, yeah, they, they even showed me a couple of little tips about then what to do and where to move. And yeah, it, it, it definitely works at times and there's other times where they're just too big. It doesn't work with if they've already sort of got a hold of you or they're already on you. So, yeah, I, I do know, I do have a plan for it. Um, yeah, I do know, I know what to do. Yeah, I know what to do.

• 42:36Speaker 00

  I'm, I'm, I'm feeling fairly confident about that now and I'm definitely, I'm made, I'm, I'm made, I can't wait to tune in on it. Um, it, it just, I just want to peel back a little bit. You're a great promoter of the game, of the fight game. I mean, you're great. But do you really dislike the dude or what?

• 42:50Speaker 01

  Uh, I, I didn't before. Yeah. I, I, I think, yeah.

• 42:55Speaker 00

  Or is it a mindset? How's it work?

• 42:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a real, that's a really good way to put it. At, at the moment, I, I don't like him yet. I'm, I'm off him. Because, um, as I said, I, I, I've said this before, the only, the only thing of Nelson, I found Nelson, he's been, he's a little bit precious, I think. Like, at the end of the day, I've only said two things about him. I've said he quit rugby league because he couldn't handle the speed of it anymore. He, he calls it divine intervention, you know, whatever. As long as he's happy, that's okay. He's moved on to boxing. That's fine. But the one thing that I am disappointed in, I've said, I've said it to him in, in, and I've said it multiple times. I had a conversation with Nelson privately, one on one, every year ago. I knew he wanted to get involved in boxing. I went out of my way to make a phone call to No Limit to try and help him out. I told him about that Vegas card I've been asked to fight on. I said, you should try and do it. I don't want to do it. I'm retired, but, but.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  So he had all this information from me directly to his face that I'm done with boxing. So for them, the song we know limit three or four months later, have his first fight, call me out in that one. I thought, okay.

• 43:51Speaker 00

  Thinking you're not gonna take it.

• 43:53Speaker 01

  Well, I was never, I, I told him to myself, I'm retired, I'm done. If I was still fighting, I, I totally get it. I understand the promotion of boxing. Calling people, that's part of the game. I, I get that. But when I told him to his face that I'm done, he knew it. I'm like, hang on a second, mate. I've told you to your face. And he done it again and again and again. I'm like, mate. That, that's the whole reason I've come back. Um, because I, I, I feel what he's done is, is just not what a bloke does. I, I, and I, you will never change my mind. After this fight's done and after, or then the mossy's done and we shake hands and I'll stop and think, well, hang on a second. Yeah. He, he, he betrayed my trust, you know? I, I told him in, in an instant, but setting one on one that I'm done, I'm cooked. I've had enough.

• 44:32Speaker 00

  And you tried helping.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  And, and I would make a phone and try to help him. That, for me, that's, yeah, there, there's no comeback from, from that for me. So, yeah, now I, I've got no end of my strategy towards him. I wish him all the best, but I, I, I won't be his friend. And now I'm 45. I don't need any more friends. I don't care.

• 44:48Speaker 00

  But Gal, when you, I mean, I don't think most of you realise, but when you walk in the ring, you have to dislike the person. You can't walk in, that's your job. You've got to punch them in the head. You're trying to win and it's not a winning, it's not a game of chess. It's not arm wrestle. You're, you're in there to hurt them and you've got to have a mindset around this.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I, I don't, I don't, you know, this, this is a podcast and a nice place to, to talk nicely. We don't, we don't need to talk about violence, but yeah, my, my mind is, my mind is.

• 45:16Speaker 00

  It's a game of violence. That's what it is.

• 45:17Speaker 01

  My, my mind's in places that are unspeakable, what I want to do to him. So, yeah.

• 45:22Speaker 00

  Explain stay down, like.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  Uh, the, the, the stay down.

• 45:28Speaker 00

  Is, is there any performance in there or, or it's real?

• 45:30Speaker 01

  I don't, look, no, there's no performance in it. Mate, it's real. Like it's, you're there. Yeah, it's real. But, you know, how much for, how much of an impact or effect that has on the fight? I, I don't know. Um, but I, I, I, I, I see everything as a competition, everything.

• 45:45Speaker 00

  Kuz, you're a competitive bastard.

• 45:47Speaker 01

  Mate, I, I play uni with my kids. I don't let them win. So I, I compete on everything. So for me, it's competition. For me, it's, you know, we're, we're there.

• 45:55Speaker 00

  I've got to win.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, that, that, that's my attitude. So I'm, I'm, I'm staring him out. I'm, I'm not moving. I'm not moving till I move. So, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's competition for me.

• 46:05Speaker 00

  Okay. You've got a young family. You've got a wonderful wife, Anne. How do they feel about it?

• 46:12Speaker 01

  My wife's not happy. Um, yeah, the, the, the kids are okay.

• 46:16Speaker 00

  Nervous or not happy?

• 46:17Speaker 01

  She's been awesome now. Like at, at the start, she was upset, didn't want me to do it.

• 46:22Speaker 00

  Do you normally consult her about some of that?

• 46:24Speaker 01

  I do. And we, we've got a great relationship and, um, you know, we, we get on really good and, and, uh, yeah, there's, there's no, look, she's really supportive. Um. When I first started training for it, I'd, I'd come home because mate, it's hard. Like it, it, it is hard.

• 46:40Speaker 00

  People don't realise the sparring is hard as part.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  You don't, people don't understand. Like people think we're just getting the ring, getting paid a ton of money. And yeah, that's awesome. But mate, the, the build up and what you've got to do to get into that ring is crazy. And, and she sees it and puts up with all of it. And, and I was coming home at the start and I was, oh, this is killing me. And I told you, I told, like she, she was, had that attitude. And then one day we sort of had a chat. I said, look, I just, just be, can you just be supportive here? You know, like, like, I know you don't want me to do it, but let's just.

• 47:09Speaker 00

  But it's happening.

• 47:09Speaker 01

  It's happening. It's gonna happen. Ever since then, I've come home and a couple of times I've tested on purpose, like said something like whinged on purpose. And mate, she's been awesome. Like you'd be right. Like she's been so, so positive. She's totally flicked the switch. Um. She's all in now. She knows, she knows I'm, I'm doing it. Um, you know, we're obviously doing it, but yeah, she'll be there on the night and she's been so supportive.

• 47:28Speaker 00

  Kids?

• 47:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, the, the kids, um, this, this is the part of, and I heard, I heard Nelson say something too, which, which I agree with him and I, and I think he's got the right attitude. The thing about professional sport is right. Not, not everything always goes your way. Like unfortunately, you always, you always want to be, you always want to be the best, right? But unfortunately, nothing goes your way. But as an athlete or as a sports person, you, you've got to be, have the, the mindset that, okay, I'm putting myself out there. Hopefully, well, you can do everything you can for it to go your way, but it might not. And that's how, you know, we spoke about, about me evaluating things. I, I, I, I sat back and I, and I think about, okay, well, and I, I can be negative at times. I think, what's the worst case scenario here? Okay. I lose. How's it gonna change my life? How's it gonna affect me?

• 48:14Speaker 01

  And I, and I spoke to my kids and I said, and I, and I asked them directly, if, if I don't win this fight, well, you should love me. And they said, yeah, of course. So for me, speaking about always evaluating this fight, for me, this is only a positive for me. This can only be a positive. I, I win the fight on the baddest 45 year old in the country. I lose the fight. I go home to my wife and kids, which, which I love to death. And, and, and nothing's gonna change. A pocket full of cash. That, that, that's my attitude towards it.

• 48:42Speaker 00

  Will the kids go?

• 48:45Speaker 01

  My son will go. Um.

• 48:46Speaker 00

  How old is he?

• 48:47Speaker 01

  He's 15. He's just turned 15. So yeah, the, the, he will go. Um, but, but the others will go. The, the 11, eight year old girls won't go. And then my oldest daughter, she doesn't like it, which is fair enough. Um, uh, it's, it's not for her, but, but my son will be there.

• 49:01Speaker 00

  And would you encourage your son?

• 49:03Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 49:04Speaker 00

  To box?

• 49:04Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 49:06Speaker 00

  Explain that.

• 49:07Speaker 01

  Train, train, train, a hundred percent train. I think, I think boxing, boxing and martial arts, jiu jitsu, karate, kai's good. Is, is, is really, really good for your, for your mindset, um, for your, for your discipline. Um, and just for your ability to get up. Like it's, mate, it's a, you, you do boxing a lot. You're like, just to, just to get up in life. Like I, I, I think there's a lot of life lessons in being able to do.

• 49:32Speaker 00

  Well, you're out there by yourself.

• 49:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, by yourself. And this is one thing I think about life. Like, man, no one's coming to help you at the end of the day. And you, and you know better than anyone, as you get older, mate, your circle shrinks and at the end of the day, no one's coming to help you.

• 49:44Speaker 00

  They'll all be sympathetic.

• 49:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, but.

• 49:46Speaker 00

  But that's it.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  But they're gonna be there for you? No, no one's there for you, mate. Yeah. And that's, and that's, that's been my attitude for a long, long time. And now that I have people around me, I need to support. That's, that's what I'm doing, what I have to do to, to support them. So, um, yeah, that, that, that's my attitude about it all.

• 50:00Speaker 00

  Cause when that bell goes at the beginning of round, each round, all the people who have been helping you out, they're still in the corner.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:08Speaker 00

  You're the dude in the front. You're in the middle.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  They can't do nothing about it.

• 50:11Speaker 00

  And then it, it does, and, and good on Nelson. It takes a lot of courage. I don't give a shit with his six foot nine, six foot seven or whatever. It takes a lot of courage to do it. And, and, and you said it before, all the training, that takes a lot of courage.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:24Speaker 00

  And endurance and resilience.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:26Speaker 00

  I, I just want to finish off on one thing out. Like, um, maybe you just explain to people, it's not all about going into a fight like this. It's not all about the fight on the night. It is, that's important, the outcome, the final outcome. But maybe just explain to people all the lead up to it. I don't mean how you prep, but there's so much goes into it. Yeah. Family sacrifices, physical sacrifices, pain, effort, everything. Managers, trainers, cut guys. Promotion. Promotion, promoting the fight. Like you've got to promote the fight. And you've got, and that, that takes a lot out of you.

• 51:02Speaker 01

  Mate, this, this week is, is hard. This week's a big week. Like every day we have promotion, every single day, things like this. Um. Got to go to the races after this, you know, podcasts, radio interviews, weigh-ins, press conferences. It, it, it's full on. There, there's a lot that goes, you know, people think you're set up on the night, you pay. That's not the way it works. And the, the, the preparation, um, for me, my, how I get into that ring on the night. And the same, same, same way I treated rugby league, same, I go, get on the field and do the job that day. But I base it all on my preparation and, uh, my preparation for this one has been as good as it can be. Um, you know, nothing ever goes to plan it when you, when you get to a certain, well, nothing ever goes to plan ever. Um, but I, I, I've trained as good as I can train.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  Um, to, to get in the ring as best as I possibly can be. I'm, I'm mentally ready. Um. You know, my, my, my mind's in a good, good space. My family's there supporting me. Um, so I'm, I'm, I'm ready to go.

• 51:56Speaker 00

  You're not, you're not the favourite though?

• 51:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's been a fair few fights. I haven't been the favourite. I reckon on my 25, it's probably at least half of them. I haven't been the favourite and I've only lost two. So, yeah, I'm not concerned about that. I, I like, I understand that, you know? Let, let's be honest. Like Nelson is 15 years younger than me. 30 kilos heavier than me, 80, eight or nine inches taller. Yeah.

• 52:18Speaker 01

  If he can't win this fight, which he's not going to, like, and, and this is, this is why I, I, I personally think, I just, I don't think Nelson can take rub, uh, sorry, boxing up at 30 years of age or 29 years of age and think he's gonna go in there with it. He'd be, he'd be, he'd beat most footy players. He might even beat a fair few boxers because, you know, boxers aren't really professional athletes, a lot of them. But as far as going to winning titles, I, I just, I, I don't see it. I don't see it for him. I wish him all the best after this fight. I, you know, I wish, I've got nothing against him after this fight. No, we're not gonna be mates as I said, but I, I just can't see it.

• 52:50Speaker 00

  Well, Gal, I mean, I'm there rooting for you, mate. Good luck.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

• 52:54Speaker 00

  Thanks, mate.

• 52:54Speaker 01

  As usual. Thank you.