F1 Legend Mark Webber: The Crash That Nearly Killed Me, Oscar Piastri, & rival Sebastian Vettel

Mark Webber is 1 of only 5 Australians to win a Formula 1 Grand Prix and a 9-time race winner who competed at the highest level of motorsport for over a decade alongside Michael Schumacher, Sebastian Vettel, and Lewis Hamilton. In this episode, Mark traces his journey from being a ball boy for the Canberra Raiders in Queanbeyan to holding up that 1st-place trophy on the infamous Monaco podium... twice. Webber took me through the decisions, mentors, and mindset shifts that defined his incredible career, covering how he went from a 2-race contract to a successful Formula 1 career, what he believes all the greats have in common, his near-fatal crash at 280km/h, and working with Oscar Piastri. This conversation is as much about what it takes to build an elite life as it is about Mark's incredible journey. You don't want to miss this one. --- For more content like this: Subscribe to the Mentored newsletter here: https://the-mentored-platform-pty-ltd.myklpages.com/l/WWJGc5 Join my exclusive Mentored+ community: https://mentored.com.au/become-a-member/ See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Mark Webber, mate, this is unbelievable for me. Great opportunity for me. Um, welcome to Straight Talk.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Great to be here, mate.

• 0:06Speaker 00

  I, I can't believe that I'm sitting in front of you, but anyway, well, you're sitting in front of me, however, however you want to put it. Amazing. It's just amazing. Um, well,

• 0:15Speaker 00

  I mean, we just, we just had a little pre-talk about a whole lot of stuff and I wish we had recorded it. Don't worry, we'll cover it. We'll cover it. He didn't say anything that, uh, uh, uh, it didn't go off piece and, uh, but he will. You're,

• 0:30Speaker 00

  I was just walking up here and I ran into a, a sporting journalist. And he said to me, I told him that I was going to do an interview with you. And he said to me, oh, he was a ball boy for the Canberra Raiders. And it's, it's quite interesting, given how famous you are today and all the crazy stuff that you're noted for.

• 0:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:51Speaker 00

  If we go back to Mark Webber, the ball boy for Canberra Raiders.

• 0:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 0:55Speaker 00

  Can we go back to that in Queenbyen?

• 0:57Speaker 01

  Of course we can, yeah.

• 0:58Speaker 00

  Cause I think no one knows that stuff.

• 1:00Speaker 01

  Not many, no. Uh, look, you know, I know you're a big league guy, mate, and, and so am I. I watch it all still to this day.

• 1:06Speaker 00

  You're still a Canberra Raiders supporter?

• 1:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You know, I watch Ricky's guys and, um, but you know, I was very lucky. And it was actually a bit of a fluke probably from my old man. Like dad knew at the time, a guy called Mick Doyle, who was the, the coach of the under 21 side then, and said, oh, you know, maybe the loose weekend for Mark to come out and do a bit of ball boy.

• 1:22Speaker 00

  How old were you, reckon?

• 1:23Speaker 01

  Oh, mate, I was actually, it's interesting. I was actually old for a ball boy, which, which was bloody important. And so I'll get into that. But the, I'm talking like 13, 12 or 13.

• 1:35Speaker 00

  So like mid eighties.

• 1:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, 13, bit older, 14, yeah, probably because we did the grand final with, with the Tigers, you know, so, but I think, so under 21s reserves, 10 bucks a match, took a 30 bucks a weekend, which is bloody wicked, you know, so that was cool.

• 1:51Speaker 00

  They paid you?

• 1:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, money, mate. I got a little bit of money, I think, yeah. So.

• 1:54Speaker 00

  That's good blinding.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, but I think what, and I look back on that, when you say looking back, mate, it's actually was really good for me to see. You know, cause when, mate, I was seeing Mal, Laurie, you know, Ricky, Clidy, Lazo, you know, half the Australian team.

• 2:13Speaker 00

  Stacked side.

• 2:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14Speaker 00

  Totally stacked.

• 2:14Speaker 01

  Oh, mate, phenomenal, you know, Sheen's your coach. Um, and you know, to take the sand out to Mal every weekend, you know.

• 2:22Speaker 00

  Cause it was sand those days, it wasn't, it wasn't.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, so take the sand out to Mal and, um, but what was funny, one match, we stopped a match once at, at Canberra there, because what Sheen's used to like us to do was when they kick for touch, when Ricky would kick for touch, you know, Steve Walters would obviously take the tap and then have someone, you know, on the run, get the momentum. But our job was to put the ball at the touch judge's feet where Ricky would have kicked out.

• 2:45Speaker 00

  So the ball goes out, touch judge puts his flags up, stands there, you go and put it straight there.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, bang. And then Chicka Ferguson would come pick it up or someone or Mullows or, you know, something like that. But we would, I would do a monster forward pass direct to, to, to box head, to Steve Walters.

• 2:59Speaker 00

  Walters.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. And to get the run on, you know, and the touch, I'd just fume it.

• 3:03Speaker 00

  So you, you were sort of.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  That was a brief.

• 3:05Speaker 00

  So don't put the ball at the touch, that's for.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  We want to win that.

• 3:08Speaker 00

  Put it straight to him.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  Five seconds, mate. And then bang, and then they're off. So we were part of.

• 3:11Speaker 00

  Oh, that was part of the strategy.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  Inertia, just to keep the inertia. Don't, Sheen's like, don't, you know, if we can get it straight into, onto the tap.

• 3:16Speaker 00

  Did you understand the, the point of that at the time?

• 3:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, I was told, of course, I was shitting myself. I'll do it. Yeah, I'll do it, mate. I'll do it.

• 3:23Speaker 00

  So could you reach him?

• 3:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I was pretty, I had a little, a little pass on me, mate. So.

• 3:28Speaker 00

  Well, you're pretty tall. I mean, you're very tall for a, a race car driver, like, but like, were you tall then?

• 3:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. Uh, no, I was pretty late actually growing up, like in terms of my spurt, I suppose, but, um.

• 3:38Speaker 00

  Were you playing footy?

• 3:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Mate, I played everything. You know, I loved a bit of tennis. I love golf. I love AFL. I love like playing and, and rugby league. So I did, I was a jack of all trades and a legend of absolutely none. I was, you know, I loved having a go.

• 3:50Speaker 00

  But that's an experience though, isn't it? Like, uh, like being competitive, we're naturally competitive.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  Absolutely, mate. Absolutely. And I was so lucky looking back to grow up in Queenbyen, you know, uh, because it was a small country town, you know, and sports was big and our family was big into that. My mum and dad liked sports and, and having a go was, was really important.

• 4:10Speaker 00

  So were, were they encouraging you to do that?

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Sure. You know, mum would take me to swimming club and.

• 4:14Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 4:15Speaker 01

  So those Wednesday night in Queenbyen, that's fresh, mate.

• 4:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, that'd be very cold. Is it outdoors?

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:19Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So, but I think that, that little athletics, like all that stuff, you know, because school for me was, wasn't that easy. I was, I was a bit of a, bit of a rogue and I enjoyed, you know, sport more than, you know, and like the social scene, the school as well. Um, but I really enjoyed, uh, sport and that was my, that was my passion really, mate. So.

• 4:43Speaker 00

  But when, when you, uh, when you're growing up, did you ever think to yourself, I'm going to be a race car driver? Or did you ever watch it? I mean, was that a thing?

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Of course, mate. I think like my dad had a huge influence on me, no question about it. My dad loved Sir Jack Brabham.

• 4:57Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Sir Jack Brabham was dad's hero.

• 5:00Speaker 00

  That's gone back a while.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Exactly. So Sir Jack was, you know, racing at Warwick Farm and some of these tracks in, like in, in, in New South Wales. My dad would hitchhike from Queenbyen to go and watch him race against the likes of Sir Jackie Stewart and Jimmy Clark, like all these legends from Europe, all these Formula One guns. And that of course was blended into me over time as a young, as a young lad, because I grew up riding motorbikes when I was young on the farm. And like, that was important for me to sort of have the bit of the, the, the speed component early, which I just enjoyed. There was no, dad wasn't forcing me to do it. I just enjoyed race, uh, riding the bikes.

• 5:33Speaker 00

  But at speed?

• 5:35Speaker 01

  Sure. Yeah, of course. And I think that with motorbikes, you have the accountability and consequences are quite, you learn them quite quick. You know, because you've got the throttle, you've, it's, it's, there's no training wheels, mate. You, you, off you go, son, and you know, have a crack. So I think that was, dad had the motorbike shop in Queenbyen. So really petrol, like, you know, being in motor racing sphere, let's say, it was sort of on my doorstep and way and the go-kart track was local. So that was.

• 6:01Speaker 00

  You had a go-kart track?

• 6:02Speaker 01

  That was so low. Not, I didn't, but there was.

• 6:04Speaker 00

  No, but that was on there.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was so lucky. I mean, I would never, ever have been, if dad didn't like Sir Jack and there's no go-kart track, it's not happening. So, you know, there's those moments where, and then once I got, I had, once I, we bought a go-kart and I started enjoying racing the go-kart, then all the other sports dropped away. And I think at that point I then got an absolute addiction. It was a total.

• 6:27Speaker 00

  Oh, so you were racing go-karts?

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Yep. So it was a disease. At that point it was a total disease. I was gone.

• 6:33Speaker 00

  Did you just sort of ignore schoolwork and stuff like that at that point? Did you think, I stuffed this, I'd rather be out there in my go-kart?

• 6:38Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 6:38Speaker 00

  Practicing?

• 6:38Speaker 01

  And I was designing helmets and drawing tracks and stuff like that in class and just stuff that I could, you know, so I just was transfixed on.

• 6:45Speaker 00

  As in obsessed?

• 6:47Speaker 01

  Totally obsessed. Absolutely obsessed. It was all encompassing for me. So that was

• 6:52Speaker 01

  16, 17 and a bit, and then I went into car racing. So, so that's when I started to, karting was okay for me. I loved it. But I was a bit big and also dad was clever because he knew deploying, we didn't have infinite funds. He's like, you know, you need to pull a little bit back because it's a bloody expensive sport to give me a chance in car racing, which was more expensive. But that was, and if you're not quick in cars, like there's, there's no point being a freaking go-kart if you can't go up the staircase to go towards ultimately, which is, which is Formula One.

• 7:21Speaker 00

  But do you reckon the old man actually thought to himself, I'm going to take him through each of the stages? Like I got him a go-kart. He obviously doesn't have a licence, but I'm now going to put him in a car because you can get a, do you have to have a licence to race a car?

• 7:32Speaker 01

  Race, yes, a go-kart, like, but yeah. So when you compete, you need a licence.

• 7:35Speaker 00

  You need a licence for, for go-kart?

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 7:38Speaker 00

  And obviously then when you race a car, therefore you must also need a licence as well. Like a licence to, licence to race or a licence to drive on the road?

• 7:46Speaker 01

  Uh, you can race before you can drive on the road.

• 7:49Speaker 00

  Oh, is that right?

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 7:50Speaker 00

  So you, were you racing before you could illegally drive on the road?

• 7:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:54Speaker 00

  What, just 17 or something like that?

• 7:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, yeah. So, um, yeah. And that, that, that does happen. And even, I think it's even younger in New Zealand. So some of the kids are racing super, like racing, like on a racing track.

• 8:05Speaker 00

  So what was your first race car? What, was it a Taran or something?

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Formula Ford. So single seater. So I was always in a single seater car. So very rarely did I race a, what we would call a, like a touring car, or like I say, a, a road relevant street car. So I was always racing bespoke, single seater cars.

• 8:19Speaker 00

  So that's a car with one seat, just a driver's seat?

• 8:21Speaker 01

  And open wheels. So very, yeah. Cause my dad was always, he loved single seater racing. So I was very much on that, on that train of thought that, you know, the, the best drivers in single seater racing, it's more accurate. You've got to be very accurate in open wheel racing. Cause it's, the, the wheels are exposed and sort of the lines and everything is just a lot more precise. Um, so anyway, that was what.

• 8:42Speaker 00

  But did you have someone to teach you that stuff? I mean, like, I mean, how do you become good at that? And then were, and by the way, were you good at that?

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. So that's an interesting one. I, I had. You get some mentors along the way, you know, early door, like hopping into a car, you know, the first time you do that, which was actually at Orem Park, which is now, you know, not there anymore, it's full of houses, but um that was the first time I drove a a racing car and I just was thrown into that and but there was a bit of a scout there, a guy that was and trying to validate with my, my dad was trying to validate with him, is this, is he going okay? Or is he average? Or because this is a big decision for for my for my family and for me and like, where we're gonna go with this.

• 9:19Speaker 00

  But it was actually structured though, like because dad was actually thinking like, there's a process here.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a test drive. It was like just a little test drive, like baby steps. And it's like, okay, that's a milestone. He's done well there. He's doing well there. Maybe we can go into competition and then obviously it just continued. So I was sort of going through these gateways of sort of dad accepting that this is something we can do. And of course, I've the buy in from me has got to be big. Like, of course, I'm hungry for it. It's not his, you know, it's it's it's a bit of an extension of his love, of course, but I have to be able to then show him how committed I am as well, because it's, I have to be committed, you know, and that uh.

• 9:54Speaker 00

  Do you think it was strategic from your dad? I mean, when you think back at it, like that's pretty uh out there, like uh for a dad or a mum or both of them. Obviously mum was supporting all this, but like for someone to think about this in such a strategic way, you know, and here he is, a humble uh motorbike guy, fixes stuff up, like pretty humble.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, very.

• 10:13Speaker 00

  Living in Queen Bee An, he's he's got his son, young, where where do you sit in the family, like in terms of kids?

• 10:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, um I was, um I've got one sister, she's two years older than me.

• 10:21Speaker 00

  Okay, so it is a young boy, this younger kid in the family, and he's thinking to himself, well, I'm gonna take you through each of the stages. You probably didn't realise where he probably had his dream.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  Of course not, you know, of course, at that age, you're not. And even I look back now and I say, Dad, what were you thinking, taking me to that track or doing that at that age? It was madness for the experience I had. But of course, you know, he was big on just keep putting in deeper water, you know, you know, and that's.

• 10:46Speaker 00

  But a little deeper, just a little bit.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  Of course, because it and you want, of course, to be, at that age, you want easier competition, because you want you want the trophy and you wanna you wanna win. But it's like, sometimes you've got to be put into uh more difficult situations to to.

• 11:00Speaker 00

  Did you see that way? I mean, or was it more transactional?

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Not at the time.

• 11:05Speaker 00

  I I gotta win this race.

• 11:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, of course, when you're younger, you're you're you you you you want to, of course, progress naturally. You can't just sit in where the competition's soft. You wanna continue to test yourself. But obviously, he knew more than I did, because it was sixteen or seventeen, you don't know much.

• 11:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, we think you do, but.

• 11:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's like, yeah, you think you're an expert, but you haven't got much of an idea. So he was, of course, just strategising very, very, you know,

• 11:32Speaker 01

  cleverly, you know, just to sort of work and not going too hard and and of course, getting advice on the way. He needs to get advice.

• 11:37Speaker 00

  Did he get outside advice for you?

• 11:39Speaker 01

  Well, there's a great touring car driver in Australia called Jimmy Richards. Um and once at Malala, I was driving a car in South Australia and Jimmy went to see dad on the bank. He was just watching me drive around and um and my dad loved Jimmy Richards, as you know, we all do. He's a frigging absolute legend of our sport and really, you know, just a uh just a great guy and like no agenda, just like straight up. And he just went to dad and said, you're.

• 12:03Speaker 00

  Generous with his ideas.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Great. And he just said, Mark's wasting his time here in Australia.

• 12:08Speaker 00

  Really?

• 12:09Speaker 01

  He's gotta go to overseas.

• 12:10Speaker 00

  What what was the thinking behind that?

• 12:12Speaker 01

  Just, again, go, he's he's he's gotta go and test himself against the best. Like, we can race here in Australia, but this category, like Formula Ford and these these formative categories, the hotbed, all the big, big guns are in Europe. So he said, I advised, I would advise you, Alan, to give that a go.

• 12:34Speaker 00

  Because he must have recognised that there's a potential in you and also must have recognised that your dad and you might have wanted to have, you'd have a career in this at this stage.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course. Now, now it's getting serious, of course, you know, like that sort of nineteen ninety five period, when you're racing in in like at the sharp end in in Formula Ford racing, which is the first step out of go-karts, really. But it's still, they're pretty quick cars and it's getting serious and it's like, but for someone like that to give dad the validation, we're sort of, one, we're on the right track.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  And two, you know.

• 13:01Speaker 00

  There's more to him.

• 13:02Speaker 01

  Give him a chance, give him a chance to go overseas, which of course, in our little world, you're like, hmm, maybe, not sure.

• 13:07Speaker 00

  That's a big step.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it was great. It was great to the gym.

• 13:10Speaker 00

  Did you, did you?

• 13:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, went, yeah. So ninety six, I went, end of ninety five, I went to Europe and and uh.

• 13:16Speaker 00

  How'd that work?

• 13:17Speaker 01

  I've never, I've never come back.

• 13:18Speaker 00

  How'd that work? Like?

• 13:20Speaker 01

  Uh, well, I went over there and did a test drive uh for the works team, which was, which was uh called Van Deemen at the time, and that went brilliantly. And then they said, you can do a race, like a, it's a, for basically, it's not an invitation race, but it's the biggest Formula Ford race in the world, the Formula Ford Festival.

• 13:38Speaker 00

  Did they give you a car?

• 13:39Speaker 01

  So Yellow Pages in Australia sponsored me for that race, which was amazing. So Yellow Pages sponsored me all through my, well, my junior, some of my junior stuff here in Australia. And then they said, we're happy to support you, which was five thousand pounds for the week. I had to get five thousand pounds in nineteen ninety, in October ninety five.

• 13:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, the UK pounds.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  Yes, which is, there was thirty three p to the dollar then.

• 13:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a lot of money.

• 13:59Speaker 01

  I know you're a numbers man, mate.

• 14:00Speaker 00

  A lot of money.

• 14:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it was, it was, yeah, it was, you know, we, you know, it was, we had to do it. And Yellow Pages are amazing, so we we did that. And then I got a really good result straight up, which was just.

• 14:12Speaker 00

  What's that mean?

• 14:13Speaker 01

  Top three in a, like, there was a hundred and twenty in the field.

• 14:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  So I finished in the top three first time on the track, first time in that category. So that was, and then the boss said, mate, you're coming back next year. This is the bloke that owns the whole factory team and his uh his name was Ralph Thurman. He said, you're coming back next year, subsidised drive, it's eighty five thousand quid, but we're paying half and you can bring the rest, which Yellow Pages did.

• 14:33Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  So.

• 14:35Speaker 00

  So we get, uh, just, uh, give me a bit of sense of this. So how old were you, like, twenty?

• 14:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, there, what are we, uh, yeah, twenty.

• 14:43Speaker 00

  So you're twenty, and you arrive in a.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  Nineteen, nineteen, yeah.

• 14:46Speaker 00

  And you arrive in Europe? Whereabouts in Europe are we talking about?

• 14:49Speaker 01

  Uh, so that was Nor- Norwich.

• 14:52Speaker 00

  In the UK?

• 14:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, East Anglia, yeah.

• 14:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, okay. So so you're in the UK and you're you've never been on this track before?

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, no.

• 14:59Speaker 00

  Did you go, did you walk the track? Do, how do you do, how do you know where the hell are you going?

• 15:03Speaker 01

  It's a great question, mate, because now there's a lot of simulators, right? So all this offline virtual world we have now in racing that the guys use, but we, of course, none of that then, you know. So yeah, have a, have a, have a walk around, have a look at it.

• 15:13Speaker 00

  Literally a walk.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, have a walk, but then you just gotta get in the car and.

• 15:17Speaker 00

  Can you have a little test drive?

• 15:19Speaker 01

  No, no, no, because there's three or four, five people in your team, like already, these are little baby cars, nothing like F1, but obviously it's already, you've got a team. These these cars need to be organised and prepped up and.

• 15:30Speaker 00

  You don't want to bug them.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  Set up and, you know, they're pretty, they're nice little bits of kit, they're gorgeous, you know, little bits of jewellery and you've got to take them out there and get into them. So um.

• 15:39Speaker 00

  You can't go and get an old Fiat and rent it.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  No, the track is, it's pretty hard to get on.

• 15:44Speaker 00

  Sacrosanct, yeah.

• 15:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, pretty hard to get on, so, yeah.

• 15:47Speaker 00

  Any surprises? When you, can you remember that day?

• 15:50Speaker 01

  A lot more intense, a lot more intense. So the racing was a lot more cutthroat, you know, just a none.

• 15:55Speaker 00

  Like ruthless?

• 15:56Speaker 01

  The depth, exactly, the depth ruthless, all of a sudden, I'm, you know, on the grid with Colombians, Mexican, you know, Frenchies, Germans, like, there's just a, every nationality you name it, they were on the grid. And it was just, and the precision, just how close they'd run you to the fence and how.

• 16:10Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 16:11Speaker 01

  So just a lot tighter.

• 16:12Speaker 00

  Putting pressure on you?

• 16:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course.

• 16:14Speaker 00

  Are they actually putting pressure or are they just trying to get ahead of you and that creates pressure? Or are they saying, let's stuff this bloke up?

• 16:19Speaker 01

  Intimidation as well.

• 16:20Speaker 00

  Really?

• 16:21Speaker 01

  More and more, more, more contacts, you know.

• 16:23Speaker 00

  Oh, they're actually touching you?

• 16:24Speaker 01

  In Australia, there wasn't much of that. It was a bit more after you, sir. Still, still solid, but like over there, it was just different gravy, straight away.

• 16:32Speaker 00

  We're gonna win.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  My face, like, but you know, this is, yeah, they, these guys are on. And the depth is so, you could have three or four sharp guys at the front here, over there, you've got twenty sharp, like really good operators, you know, so.

• 16:43Speaker 00

  How fast are you going?

• 16:45Speaker 01

  On that track, not that quick. Oh, it's two twenty K, you know, they're like, they're, you know, that's only a sixteen hundred engine, but it's, you know, gets along. And but that was, um, yeah.

• 16:53Speaker 00

  Two twenties pretty quick.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:55Speaker 00

  I mean, I have no stories in relation to this sort of stuff, because I, I, many, many.

• 16:59Speaker 01

  We should do a track day one, Dan, mate.

• 17:00Speaker 00

  I have, I have done it, Mark.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  You've done it, okay.

• 17:01Speaker 00

  So, yeah, I have to tell you what happened, because you're gonna laugh at me, right? Many, many years ago, it was in two thousand four, two thousand five, my son, I bought an Aston Martin um uh DB9, because they just, they just got released and I don't know why I did it. I still got it, actually, but I wish I hadn't have bought it. But anyway, don't matter. And my son, my dad, my oldest son, he said, let's go out to a track somewhere in Sydney. I don't remember where it was. And there's a whole lot of people going out there and he said, let's go for a drive in it. And I said, oh, okay, cool. And so I did one lap and he said, Dad, let me take you. And uh and he was driving Mitsubishi Evo at the time here and he was racing it a bit.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:34Speaker 00

  Oh, my God. I was so scared and I started yelling and screaming at him. I said, mate, stop the fucking car and let me out now. And he was just laughing and just going faster and faster. It terrified me. So I don't know where you get the, I don't know, it was testosterone or the adrenaline or my, my cortisol was out of control.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:53Speaker 00

  I don't understand, Mark, like uh how you control your sense of fear, or is it, in your case, there's no fear, it's just adrenaline?

• 18:02Speaker 01

  Well, you go on a journey of your skill set. I think you, when you get more and more experience, you get highly skilled.

• 18:10Speaker 00

  What about back then, when you're nineteen?

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Uh, then, yeah, you're, you're raw, you're raw. It is definitely, um, you know, of course, you have this, you know, is it nature or nurture? You know, like, how do you just get half good at something? And it just, apparently, it turns out that it, some things come more natural to you than maybe others. And you just, you just, of course, take that for for granted, I suppose, in some ways. So for me, it was more, um, it's not, like, think about racing drivers as adrenaline junkies. We're not really.

• 18:39Speaker 00

  Because I wanted to know that, is that, is that true?

• 18:41Speaker 01

  No, we're not, we're not really, it's, it's, I mean, at least for me, anyway, I don't feel I'm an adrenaline. People would think, you know, if you do three hundred and seventy K an hour in a Formula One car, you, you, you, you're craving for.

• 18:52Speaker 00

  The rush.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, the rush and the dorfens in things, but.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  I'm, it's more of the accuracy and the precision and the testing yourself and, you know, and applying all of your skills at the point in your career, of course, because the most experience you have, mate, is the day you retire.

• 19:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  That's when you've got the most experience.

• 19:09Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  So, you know, you're trying to obviously, you know, and then it's when you've got people helping you and guiding you along the way, because of course you're making so many errors when you're um younger. But I think that the, the experience blended with your, uh, just that sheer enthusiasm and passion, you know, you've got that flamboyancy, you know, you, you're so um ignorant as bliss, isn't it? You're so confident.

• 19:30Speaker 00

  Enthusiastic, yeah.

• 19:31Speaker 01

  You're so confident.

• 19:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  You know, and you're borderline reckless, you're making some mistakes here and there, but, but that comes, and then the polished, being polished comes, getting more, you know, articulate, and the word can still, of course, consistency, you know, you've got so many people on this podcast, mate, that come in sport, and that is, that's, that's, that's what they have to be able to do, right?

• 19:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:50Speaker 01

  You've got to be consistent, you know, if you're

• 19:51Speaker 00

  Ultimately.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  Delivering all the time.

• 19:54Speaker 00

  Got to be able to defend your position.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly, and also be, no, but even accurate with your lap time, you see someone like Rafa or Roger, you know, in our, in our situation, that's, that's repeating the same lap time all the time.

• 20:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  At a high level, or a golfer, driving down the middle, or whatever, if you're like, that's in our, in our, in our game, it's doing the same lap time, like very metronomically.

• 20:13Speaker 00

  And that's So it becomes mathematical.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  Elite, elite sports people can do, I think, is that's what they, they're looking for, right? They want to have that, you know, the mistakes factor.

• 20:21Speaker 00

  So recklessness is out of the game, it's, it's, it's more about, uh, like you were just saying, it's very mathematical and structured.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:29Speaker 00

  And, uh, and it's about accuracy and repeating that accuracy.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Yes, but of course, the journey, you, you get better, of course, as you get older. And then when you get to Formula One, of course, that's another level again, but through the junior categories, of course, there's lots of errors and rushes of blood and where you just, you know, you, you just, you make some horrendous errors because you're, you're learning, and that's natural. But of course, if you're just, of course, if you are learning, that's the most important thing, if you continue to do the same mistake over and over and over again, then of course people will know that, and that's obviously not a good look.

• 20:59Speaker 00

  Did you ever have during the, these periods before Formula One, but did you ever have during these periods that you can recall a moment where you thought, fuck, oh, that's so dumb what I did?

• 21:10Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 21:11Speaker 00

  Do you, is there anything that stands out to you that you'll never forget during this period, not, not Formula One, but during this period?

• 21:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, mainly linked to, to, to crashes, I suppose, in terms of just, uh, again, a, a situation that the, the percentages were so low in pulling a passing move off, or something that you thought was on, and it wasn't on, and you, you, you went for something that just was half baked and half cocked and, and it didn't, it didn't come off.

• 21:40Speaker 00

  So can we talk about the decision making process? So when you, let's, if you can recall, maybe, I, I've got to get around him, I'm going to overtake, um, is it, is it like, i- is it a hairs breadth between doing and not doing it, or is it very strategic, are you looking for twenty different, um, signatures that say, now I go?

• 21:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, good point, mate. I mean, yeah, there's, there's body language of the car in front, you know, what, how, how's he going, what's he doing?

• 22:03Speaker 00

  Can you explain what that is?

• 22:04Speaker 01

  Oh, he's like where his car positioning is, you know, is he, is he, is his car, is he driving within the car, is he on the limit of the car in front, you're sort of, you're seeing how he might be, this might be his, his, his limit, and you're saying, okay, well, I can squeeze him into a mistake just by following him, you might make a small error and make it easy for myself, or in a situation where you've got someone that's over, like what we say, let's, uh, over defending, you can see they're under pressure, they're happy to even give up a second or third or a fourth, we might be fighting for fourth, and he's happy to let them go and just, he's going to take the battle within ourselves, as now it's a one on one, you know, between ourselves. And that's where there's been times where I'm like, I've got, I've got to take care of this and fix this up, and sometimes you might do it too hastily and there's contact

• 22:46Speaker 01

  and you've stuffed up and, you know, so you, you, you don't look at the big chess piece, the big, you know, the chess play, I suppose, holistically at that age too early, you're just like, okay, when you get more experience, like, hey, pull yourself back out of this, let's look at this from outside and go, okay, I need to actually strip this down a bit, a bit nicer, but when you're nineteen, mate, I mean, good luck with that, like you are just right up a drainpipe, you know, you want to be, you want to be

• 23:10Speaker 00

  I'm going to do it.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm going to do it, and I make my presence felt, and I make sure he knows I'm here.

• 23:15Speaker 00

  Do you sort of get into a zone, because like, you, A, you're driving the car, you've got your foot here, hand there, blah, blah, everything, and you're, you're also surveying everything around you?

• 23:23Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 23:24Speaker 00

  And you're feeling what's behind you, and you're sort of feeling what's on your side, your, your brain, your eyes, all your senses observing a whole heap of stuff, then at the same time, you're strategizing.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:34Speaker 00

  It's like nearly, you could nearly forget to drive, you think about, I've got to do this.

• 23:38Speaker 01

  Of course, mate, of course, and that, again, like at the Formula One lap, the, the, the, the mind management, you know, with the ram, if the ram is full, you know, then obviously your, your situation of making the, consistently the right decisions is, is going to struggle if it's, if you're

• 23:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, if your brain is full of, of course, stuff going left, right, centre.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  Your ability to be able to, and the eyes are critical, of course, and you make a good point about peripheral vision, peripheral vision is huge in sport and a huge in our sport as well, because your eyes are scanning the speed we're going, we need to be able to, that all needs to become just, if it's coming at you super, super slow, you know, in everything, even on a qualifying lap, which is us against the track, the ultimate test of speed is us in qualifying, so you go out and you have to be able to drive the car on the absolute limit, and that has to be coming at you in my, in the best days of my racing career, that is coming at you very slowly.

• 24:31Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 24:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:32Speaker 00

  You can slow it down?

• 24:33Speaker 01

  Well, that's when it's, when you're performing brilliantly, it's coming at you very, very slowly, and you're ahead, you're just so far ahead of what's happening, and, and the same in racing, so, you know, so you're, that flow, we talk about the flow or what, you know, it's very hard, if you

• 24:47Speaker 00

  Is that the thing you talk about?

• 24:48Speaker 01

  Yes, of course, of course, so it's coming at you very, and you're, and you're so present, you're so present, there's no baggage from what's happened, there's no baggage ahead, it's just like you're here, you're here, you are so with the car, and you're just, you're present, and that's when

• 25:03Speaker 00

  Sounds like you're sort of floating in a meditative sense.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  That's the big secret sauce, if you can

• 25:08Speaker 00

  Is that right?

• 25:08Speaker 01

  Obviously, if we can, yeah, of course, I think that's, and if you can bottle that every weekend, which unfortunately, when for me, when I had to come up against the Michael Schumachers and the Lewis Hamilton and those guys, that's a headache, because those guys, well, they're, you know, they are arguably, you know, the, they have been, or they're both in the goat conversation.

• 25:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  So, um,

• 25:30Speaker 00

  But do you think that, do you think that they, are you saying to me now that that was a, not intimidating, but like a, a mountain you have to climb?

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 25:38Speaker 00

  Because you thought they were very good at doing this, getting into the

• 25:41Speaker 01

  That's right, they were in that more often than probably, you know, the guys, you know, I still had some success, but obviously the group, the absolute greats in any sport, I think they are in that window, just a bit easier.

• 25:57Speaker 00

  And they seem like they've got more time than anybody else.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Of course, look at Roger.

• 26:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:01Speaker 01

  You know, Zinedine Zidane, I don't know if you know anybody

• 26:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know, the famous French soccer player, sure do, I'm, I'm watching the World Cup, final.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's an absolute joke, watching him play football.

• 26:09Speaker 00

  I watch him play, uh, I watch him play, I watched, uh, France win the World Cup in Paris many, many years ago, and, uh, he was amazing.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  Slow motion.

• 26:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, it looks like slow motion.

• 26:19Speaker 01

  The ball comes to it, like everything slows down when he's on it, and people are moving around, and he's just like, so that, that's a beautiful example of time, uh, in, in sport, when people, so obviously if everything's rushed, not good.

• 26:32Speaker 00

  Andrew Johns.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  Time.

• 26:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  Time, got time, mate, so they create time, and that's the thing where, and, and, and I think it's massive on the, on the peripheral stuff, huge, because that, that, that, that ability to be able to, uh, stall your, your, um, gyro, you know, even your, all your, all your balance, and everything is just so in sync, and it's incredible, it's great to watch.

• 26:57Speaker 00

  It's, it's, it's interesting you should say that, because, um, it's funny, I, I was talking to Dave Warner, in the podcast, actually, and, um, uh, Dave said to me that, um, we're talking about bowlers and, and or batsmen, but they don't rely on peripheral vision as much as they rely on, um, they have unbelievable closeness of their eyes together, and they can, they can hit a ball.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:20Speaker 00

  Because they can really zone in on the ball that's coming towards them, which is sort of the sep- semi the opposite to you.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:27Speaker 00

  You've got to have, you, you've got to see what's happening around you everywhere.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:30Speaker 00

  There are massive span on you.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  Well, we're covering a football field every second.

• 27:34Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 27:35Speaker 01

  Covering a football every second, one, two, three, four, five, six football fields in six seconds, you know, so when you're doing two hundred and twenty

• 27:42Speaker 00

  Do you mean literally, there's probably been

• 27:43Speaker 01

  That's the speed, yeah, it's a really good plus on, plus on

• 27:45Speaker 00

  There's probably been studies on this.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's about that, we're doing three hundred and seventy K an hour, you know, so

• 27:51Speaker 00

  That's a hundred meters every second.

• 27:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, wow.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  It's quick, so that's, I mean, of course, your peripheral, peripheral vision's critical because we're picking up, picking up braking boards, and that's if we're not

• 28:03Speaker 00

  You're picking up what?

• 28:03Speaker 01

  Braking boards, like our braking markers, you know, with that speed, if we elect to brake at one tenth of a second later or earlier, of course, that has a huge effect on, on, on our, on our lap time and where we're braking, and also, and that's if we're driving in beautiful conditions, think about driving in the rain, when there's spray, and you can't really see, so then

• 28:22Speaker 00

  Oh, really, you can't see properly?

• 28:23Speaker 01

  Not as much, very limited vision, very, very limited vision, and that's where another thing in our game, when you are under immense stress, whether it's communication, or whether it's visually you're compromised, your hearing goes, your hearing is another credible parameter on listening to the car in front, where, where could he be listening to?

• 28:47Speaker 01

  Things like that. It's another queuing. Hearing is another massive tool for us in the car, which is, which is phenomenal. Because one of the first things that go when you're under severe pressure, if the team are talking to you and you're in a situation of pressure, the brain will, that's like, it just, I didn't hear that. Or, you know, because

• 29:02Speaker 00

  That, that happens?

• 29:03Speaker 01

  It does happen.

• 29:04Speaker 00

  Would, would you know that they said something if you don't know what they said?

• 29:06Speaker 01

  You could do, but you might, yeah. It has happened at times where obviously you, you

• 29:11Speaker 00

  You say, what the fuck did you say?

• 29:11Speaker 01

  Might repeat it all, like it just, yeah. So then when there's a lot going on, the, it'll prioritize what we've got, the task at hand, which is of course being present with the car and operating the machine the best you possibly can. And then you've got to be able to take instruction. And sometimes that can be, the brain might prioritize that um in a way that you might not want it to prioritize because you've just got a task at hand. And that's again, where the phenomenal guys, you know, and even guys at Formula One level, that, you know, there's a lot of people that could. I mean, mate, I didn't have the most skill. I worked really hard, but I did not have the most skill and talent. But I worked hard.

• 29:47Speaker 00

  You mean natural talent?

• 29:47Speaker 01

  That's right. Absolutely not. And I raced against a lot of guys in the junior case that she's over talent. But of course, application and all these things, they're just

• 29:55Speaker 00

  Persistent, consistent.

• 29:57Speaker 01

  It didn't happen, you know.

• 29:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, attitude.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  Sir, Sir Alex Ferguson would always say, mate, he'll take, you know, the work up over the

• 30:02Speaker 00

  Every time. The same, I mean, everything I see in business is exactly the same.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  So I would, you know, it's a long way home from Europe with your tail between your legs. You know, and I never forgot that.

• 30:15Speaker 00

  Do you feel pressured then to say, I don't want to come home with my tail between my legs? I've got to make this work. And then was it, and was it because I, I want mum and dad to be proud? Or is that just innate in you, in Mark Webber?

• 30:29Speaker 01

  A lot of, a lot of accountability for, you know, making, to go over there and, and

• 30:38Speaker 01

  not, not, not embarrassment, but it's like, I, I, I, I have to make this work. I don't want to come back to, to, to Australia. And that were like, for me, it was nearly like a, a failure if I came back, because I thought I have to make this work in Europe. I want to get as far as I can over here. And I want to get to Formula One.

• 30:58Speaker 00

  Well, can I just stop you there, Mark? Because is that, is that more about, which one is it more about? Is it more about Mark Webber hated the thought of possible failure? Or is it, could be both, but is it Mark Webber is desperate to succeed? They're, they're different things. I, I don't want to fail or I want to

• 31:16Speaker 01

  I think it's the latter.

• 31:17Speaker 00

  I, I must succeed.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I want to succeed. You know, for example, I'll give you, I, I turned pro, I got picked up by Mercedes Benz in ninety, end of ninety seven.

• 31:25Speaker 00

  After this period?

• 31:27Speaker 01

  This year, this is, this is in ninety seven. And, and so I was getting going, but still financially, like, we had no real commercial firepower, like in terms of my, the sponsorship situation wasn't great. But Mercedes thankfully, I was lucky to get picked up by them through some of my results. And I went on a training camp in Austria with all the European drivers. It was about ten of us. All the juniors at Mercedes picked us up. And I was the worst in fitness. Worst.

• 31:51Speaker 00

  Fitness, what do you mean?

• 31:52Speaker 01

  At altitude, like doing the hikes and doing this and doing all that, you know, gym work and all

• 31:56Speaker 00

  Traditional fitness.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I remember saying to myself, like, back in my room that night, yeah, this will never, ever happen again. Ever. It's not happening again.

• 32:08Speaker 00

  What, what, what did they get you to do?

• 32:09Speaker 01

  I just like my, my, wake up in the morning, go on hike, you know, like with your snowshoes on at altitude in Zürich, which is really nice to Austria. And if you, if, you know, for all the listeners, you want to go to Zürich, it's a nice place to go, to go skiing in Austria. But when you're a young little pup and you're getting belted by

• 32:23Speaker 00

  From Queen Bern?

• 32:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, from Queen Bern in the, in the, in the snow. Of course, I was so out of my depth, literally, physically out of my depth in terms of the snow. So, and of course, doing three or four sessions a day, mate, I was absolutely getting smoked. And I just thought, this is, this is, I was delusional, absolutely delusional, that what I thought I was doing was enough. And I needed a serious uppercut, massive uppercut. And that was the uppercut.

• 32:49Speaker 00

  You give yourself an uppercut?

• 32:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. That was

• 32:51Speaker 00

  So what, what do you do? Like, you're laying in bed and you think, I'm fucked, Tim, I can't believe I'm coming last and everything?

• 32:56Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 32:56Speaker 00

  Um, what, what did you do? What do you do? Like?

• 32:58Speaker 01

  Oh, I survived that week. Obviously, you know, get myself through that. And then, you know, I know that on there, there's going to be, feedback will be going back to the bosses about, you know, they do a report on obviously the driver conditioning and all the youngsters and blah, blah, blah. And obviously, you've got this Australian kid in the mountains who's obviously nowhere. And, and then, but that was just what I needed, apparently.

• 33:18Speaker 00

  Kick up your ass.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  Exactly. Bang. Because, you know, you can have a few people blowing smoke up your ass. But when it comes to actually physically, when you can't, when they're going away from you, and you know, on the racetrack, I can smoke these guys. You know, a lot of these guys.

• 33:31Speaker 00

  Skill wise?

• 33:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just, yeah. But, so, anyway, so that's when I took, you know, the accountability for myself and say, you know, I, I have to, no one can make me get up and do my runs, get, you know, so that's self, so that's where it's a massive team sport. But of course, the ownership on yourself as an individual in the sport and consistently turning, like, the investment in yourself to some, I, I have to own all of these things. I've got to own them. Because, you know, you can action, as you know, mate, speaks later on, you, you have to action things. You can talk about getting fit. But then if I'm come back here next year, I want to be top everywhere.

• 34:04Speaker 00

  So you got through it and you, and obviously you got through, did enough to get through it

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:08Speaker 00

  with Mercedes Benz. But, but you're knowing that maybe I want to get invited back next year. So what, what, what does Mark Webber do then? What, what did you do? Was, did you go and join a gym? What did you do? Get a trainer?

• 34:18Speaker 01

  I did still a lot myself. Did a lot, I did a lot myself. Um, because I knew, sports wise, I was still coordinator. It wasn't like I was unco, I was still, I was still pretty handy at lots of different sports. But I just thought, I was just doing enough.

• 34:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  And there's a great line, mate, from the, from the UK Special Forces guys, average is easy. That's why it's popular, right?

• 34:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:38Speaker 01

  It's easy to be average. There's a lot of average out there.

• 34:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  And we can do average. And it's popular.

• 34:43Speaker 00

  Yeah. And you'll be average.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  Let's, let's, let's fuck and not be average.

• 34:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, totally.

• 34:47Speaker 01

  Because if you do the same as what other people, you have to be prepared to do something that other people are not doing.

• 34:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  Because if you do the same as them, and

• 34:54Speaker 00

  You'll be the same as them.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  You'll be the same as them. Yeah. So I'm like, okay. I need to be doing, you know, so I came back here, I was in Queen Bern, actually, end of that year. I went to Thread Bow, took myself there for two weeks alone, Thread Bow. That's when they had a little, like, Olympic setup. I think there was some Olympic setup in the, in, in, in Thread Bow at the time there. There was a swim pool.

• 35:11Speaker 00

  Two thousand or something?

• 35:12Speaker 01

  Exactly, yeah. And, and ready for the Olympics, yeah, stuff. So I just plugged myself in up there and I just flogged myself.

• 35:18Speaker 00

  What, like, just train?

• 35:19Speaker 01

  Alone, running, just eat, sleep, train, eat, sleep, train, swim, run, mountain bike, repeat, blah, blah, blah.

• 35:26Speaker 00

  There's something scary about that, you know?

• 35:28Speaker 01

  Then I did all that, I did all that alone, yeah. So, and I liked the element of surprise. When I went back there, it's like, okay, holy shit, he's now, yeah, that's good.

• 35:38Speaker 00

  Did, did, did you, okay, but did you kick ass up?

• 35:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, great. Yeah, I did well. Yeah. So it was good. So that side, that was then, that, that was, that was covered. So

• 35:46Speaker 00

  You now know that if I do this work, I can be up there with the, at the front of the team?

• 35:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, it's not always linked to the stopwatch, but it's a, it's a, it's a controllable, you can control about standards, about the people who are investing in you, the people that believe in you. Because you've also got to showcase to them that you, you know, I'm getting paid. Back then, I was getting a hundred and forty thousand Deutschmarks, which is, you know, you know, better than nothing, because it was, it wasn't a huge amount of money. But like, shit, I'm getting paid finally turned professional. This is incredible. And I'm embarrassing myself in certain situations. So that was something I just couldn't accept. So had to take care of it.

• 36:23Speaker 00

  So, but that's a bit, I, I like, I, I find it just a, I don't find it, but it's a little bit scary that your mindset is that, um, okay, stuff this, I'm going to go back to Australia as the ski season, I'm going to go up to, uh, Thread Bow in this late nineties, um, probably around two thousand period. And I'm going to start training myself, uh, and be that I'm going to go there by myself. And I'm going to train the shit out of myself. It's like, uh, I don't know, some like SAS type thing. It's, it'll be, do you ever think to yourself, was anyone ever observed to you, about you, that you're a bit of a crazy dude?

• 36:57Speaker 01

  Some of those guys, which is, not before then, you know, and I met actually a really inspirational guy and, and impactful guy in my career was a guy called Bernie Chosbury, who I met, he was part of the SBS, which is, he got the SAS in the UK and Hereford, and you got the SBS in Poole.

• 37:09Speaker 00

  Right.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  And, um, and he was influential in my career for like, from ninety, from nineteen ninety nine onwards, exactly on these things. But I had thankfully before that started to find out that, yeah, because I've got, mate, you, you've got to, you've got to own that. You know, I'd come back and mum was stressed out, you know, I was full of coal source. When I'm stressed and run down, I get coal source.

• 37:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  And I came back.

• 37:29Speaker 00

  And she saw that.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's like, mate, what are you doing? I said, yeah, because of, I was so, and it was, a lot of it was probably reckless. There was not a lot of method in the madness, actually, you know. I know you've got another, uh, podcast on health and things like that, which is really good. I like, listen to that. And this would not have been, if you did that sample of me going up there and flogging myself, it wouldn't have been, you know, but I, I believed it was, at the time, the right things for me to believe in my own, um, journey and my conditioning. And it was a, a way to build my confidence to actually, and then blends into the cockpit for my performance.

• 38:02Speaker 00

  Who, who pitched off the Formula One? How that happened?

• 38:05Speaker 01

  Oh, so mate, so after ninety nine, I was racing for Mercedes and, and we had some, I had a very nasty accident in, in France in, in June. Um, the cars were flying, so aerodynamically, they were very unstable. And, um, so we had two, two flips, basically, which is just incredible.

• 38:22Speaker 00

  Is that because you're going so fast?

• 38:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. And aerodynamically, the cars were not stable. So at certain, at a certain speed,

• 38:28Speaker 00

  It took, took off.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  It took off.

• 38:29Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  Which is not where you want to be.

• 38:32Speaker 00

  So when, when, I can't imagine that. But when that happens,

• 38:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:35Speaker 00

  what do you, you feel like you've got no control because you don't, no wheels on the ground?

• 38:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:38Speaker 00

  What's going through your head?

• 38:39Speaker 01

  Oh, you think you're gonna die.

• 38:41Speaker 00

  You're cooked.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, you think you're gonna die. Despite, like, there's the sec, there was two within a, within a day and a half. Um, so the car was just, it was, it was a ticking bomb, unfortunately. And, and subsequently, they pulled out of the race after the, the flips that we had and things like that. So, but the car, it didn't have a lot of power. So when you've got no power, you've got to run the car very light on downforce. And when the car's got low downforce, it's very, you know, suspect at high speed in terms of the car being unstable at high speed. And that's

• 39:10Speaker 00

  Did you know that though, before you became airborne?

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, you are, you're on the, you're, you're playing the risk game, of course, but not to that level. They should, the car should never be taken off. And they, and they were. So, but the fascinating thing with that, Mark, is that when you, when you are faced with, that is a very, very, very horrible situation to be in, when you are that high up in the sky, you know, two hundred and eighty K, and you've got trees either side of the circuit. It's actually quite calm. There was, I wasn't panicked. I wasn't really panicking. I was more thinking about Anne, my wife, and my sister, and my mum, all the three women. Hope they're not watching, which probably some of them were. But you're like, you just, you think about And maybe this is it. Maybe this is.

• 39:49Speaker 00

  Really?

• 39:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe this is it. You know, and you're not, you know, I wasn't panicking, but it was just, I just wanted over quick. I said, I don't want to suffer. I don't want no suffer. Just turn the lights off.

• 39:58Speaker 00

  When it comes down, is it coming down front ways or is it coming back on its ass?

• 40:02Speaker 01

  I don't have a choice in that, buddy. Yeah. So it came down on his ass. Yeah.

• 40:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:06Speaker 01

  On its ass and then finished up on its roof. The second one was, I was a bit trapped in there. So.

• 40:10Speaker 00

  So he flipped.

• 40:10Speaker 01

  Then you're worried about, you know, fuel and, you know, fire and stuff.

• 40:13Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 40:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. So anyway, so after that, I had a very difficult decision to make in my career, which was telling Mercedes, I don't want to race sports cars anymore. Go back to no salary, zero, zero income, go back to looking for sponsors again. And, and through from ninety nine June, when the accidents were through to like October, phone was dead. No one was interested in me and career was over pretty much. I was over there and we had and I had nothing really. And Eddie Jordan was a famous F one team owner at the time, based up at Silverstone. And his P A, I'd ring Eddie, I was trying to get some work with this formula, even just some testing. I can do, can you show me?

• 40:57Speaker 01

  I wanna, I wanna showcase what I can do. And Eddie and his P A was just brilliant. She would never ever, like, she'd always find a way not to get, you know, I could never get through to him. I'm just this.

• 41:06Speaker 00

  That's what they're for, mate.

• 41:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the gatekeeper. So that went on for a couple of weeks and I thought, stuff this, I'm gonna drive to see him when he's leaving the factory. I'm gonna.

• 41:17Speaker 00

  Stalk him?

• 41:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, basically. Yeah, I stalk him. Yeah. So I'm gonna drive. I had a Ford laser, a one point one litre shitbox Ford laser.

• 41:24Speaker 00

  A Ford laser?

• 41:25Speaker 01

  And, uh, cause I had to give my company car back to Mercedes and all that sort of stuff. So I'm like, hey, um, I wanna get my formula, single seater career back on. And Mercedes said, okay, that we, we want, we happy to keep paying you and go in some other categories for us and do some other things. And I went, now that's the easy option. I still wanna try and get back on my Formula One dream. So that was a huge risk that, that, uh, we took there. And then I door stopped Eddie and Eddie Jordan said, mate, you've got to meet this guy, Paul Stoddart, who's an Australian guy. He's got a Formula One team. Um, and let's go and meet him. So the day after, pretty much back at the same venue, Silverstone, where all the testing happens. I went to see Paul Stoddart. And Paul Stoddart pretty much gave me a chance in Formula One.

• 42:08Speaker 00

  But what, what convinced you, you reckon?

• 42:10Speaker 01

  I had a test drive with him in the curtain, the category of this blow F one called Formula three thousand then. So I drove for him in, in, in two thousand. Um, in that and went well for him. And then after that, I got the chance to move into Formula One in two thousand and two. So it was, um, yeah, I mean, that was the worst team. It was the slowest team on the grid, you know, and it was, I had a two race contract, two races.

• 42:33Speaker 00

  You had a contract for two races?

• 42:35Speaker 01

  For basically fourteen days, Melbourne Grand Prix and Malaysian Grand Prix.

• 42:40Speaker 01

  And my first event, I managed to finish fifth in the first, my first Formula One race.

• 42:43Speaker 00

  And is that, is that considered good though?

• 42:45Speaker 01

  That was, mate, the biggest fluke ever, biggest fluke ever.

• 42:49Speaker 00

  Why?

• 42:50Speaker 01

  Just cause there was a lot of the big guys crashed out.

• 42:53Speaker 00

  Right.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  And our car should not have got to the finish. The Grand Prix is three hundred kilometres, flat house, like, doesn't sound long, but three hundred K, it's absolutely flat out.

• 43:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:01Speaker 01

  And our car, the previous distance that had done before then was around a hundred Ks, like in testing. So we, we, we never thought, and, and, and the team boss said to me on the grid, he said, mate, if you can bring this car home, just finishing.

• 43:12Speaker 00

  Just do three hundred Ks.

• 43:13Speaker 01

  It'd be such a highlight for me. And mate, I'm towards the back of the grid. Race starts, there's huge crash and we're, we're running and there's a bit of attrition, you know, like a couple of big boys pulling out. Um, and I'm like looking on P eleven, P ten, shit, this is going all right. And like, I just wanna be finishing and et cetera, et cetera. And I'm like, this is my first Grand Prix, mate. I've hardly fit in the car. I'm like, it's, it's, the team's based in Italy, you know, the, the, so they'd cars, they used to design them around Italian drivers and all these.

• 43:40Speaker 00

  Little guys.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  A short guy, yeah. He's this tall Australian, turns, oh, my, this thing's so small. I'm finding out on my way that going this, I've never driven in this position for that long in this car. And, um, yeah, I was then running fifth and, um, there was a driver called Mika Salo, who was a Finnish driver in a, in a huge, very well funded team Mercedes, uh, sorry, in the Toyota Works team was catching me. And Paul Stoddart come on the radio and said, mate, under no circumstances should you let him pass. No circumstances, let him pass.

• 44:10Speaker 00

  Cause they can see it, they're watching it.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, but also cause the points, so they, they award points for the top six. And financially for him to get two points, cause it was one point for six, two point for five, and you work your way up to ten points for a win. So for him financially as a team owner, this was huge.

• 44:26Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  You know, big numbers for him. Um, so he knew, I mean, of course he didn't get in that position because he wasn't a gambling man. So he wanted to double down. So I don't want one point, I want two. I'm like, I'm in first race and I'll do what I can. So we got fifth.

• 44:39Speaker 00

  And how do you avoid it? How do you avoid this?

• 44:41Speaker 01

  Oh, just like, of course, making it hard for him. You know, it was like, we could have gone, okay, we're happy with a point. We've got to get this car home. It was still, there was a lot of reliability issues.

• 44:48Speaker 00

  Six would have been okay, but fifth?

• 44:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, but like, it's like, and you know what? I was also calm when he arrived. I knew he was coming. He arrived and it's like, righto. I'm, I'm ready. Let's go, let's go.

• 44:58Speaker 00

  They telling you on the radio he's on his way or?

• 45:00Speaker 01

  I can see it on the pit board. I can see it on the pit board. Yeah. And then of course, at some point you got him in the mirrors, but I had, I had, you know, he was much quicker than me when he arrived, but I was like, I've just gotta make it a bit.

• 45:08Speaker 00

  Do you have a faster car? A better car?

• 45:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, but I've, you know, but I still had to get around me.

• 45:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  And, um, I just tried to make it as.

• 45:14Speaker 00

  Are you allowed to do that? Like block them off?

• 45:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah.

• 45:17Speaker 00

  Cause it's legal, so to say.

• 45:18Speaker 01

  Within limits, you can't obviously just, you know, cream someone off the circuit, but you, you gotta make, you've got, you gotta make him work for it. So anyway, we, the result was extraordinary and, um, Stoddard said, you've got to drive for the rest of the year.

• 45:32Speaker 00

  Oh, wow. So you had a contract. So you've gone from two weeks?

• 45:34Speaker 01

  Yep, two weeks to the whole year. Yep. And then I was driving and then I got an offer middle of the season. I was in, um, sort of testing or there's a beauty parade for me to drive some other teams in the middle of that year. So then the year after I went to drive for, for Jaguar for a few years. And that was when it really started for me. Financially and also with, with proper, like big, a, a big team, a big team of people.

• 45:54Speaker 00

  Do they pay good money? I mean, there's a good money in this. Once you can just get to a certain level.

• 45:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it's, the drivers are well looked after.

• 46:01Speaker 00

  Retirement level?

• 46:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:02Speaker 00

  Like, if you stay there long enough?

• 46:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course. That's right. If you have a long career, yeah, you're looked after pretty well. And then, um, yeah, and then I went through. I think like I was so lucky to race for Red Bull, you know, Red Bull was Mr. Muddershitz was, you know, he was the probably the most inspirational guy I've ever met in my life. Um,

• 46:20Speaker 00

  Really?

• 46:20Speaker 01

  That just, yeah, he just, you know, had great vision and yeah, so.

• 46:24Speaker 00

  What was that interaction like?

• 46:26Speaker 01

  Oh my God, mate. You, you would have seen people, mate, you know, I know you've spent time with Kerry Packer and people like, people are just not a lot, it's like they've been here before.

• 46:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:34Speaker 01

  He just, his conversion for just getting decisions right was just ridiculous. Love spending time with him and, you know, he was the one that, you know, elite, you know, adrenaline sports, uh, extreme sports, um, you know, with Red Bull, he, he was a big visionary on all that. Um, and.

• 46:52Speaker 00

  What did you learn in that personally?

• 46:54Speaker 01

  Uh, well, he was a very straight guy, very, very straight in terms of just so uncomplicated. You know, he just made everything that should be, could be complicated or people can make complicated uncomplicated.

• 47:06Speaker 00

  Like, i- i- i- so in other words, he's, um, he's, uh, delivery to a simple, you knew exactly what he was expecting or what he was thinking.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  Incredible. Yeah, just, just, you know, this is my expectations of you, you know, do this, you know, do that. Boom. Very, very clear messages. Um, it's, it's an honour to have you with the team, et cetera, et cetera. And just the way he was so,

• 47:28Speaker 01

  didn't put any pressure on you. He ju- he just was, had this great way and, but you also, you're honoured to represent him and drive for him, you know, and that's.

• 47:36Speaker 00

  You wanted to do good for him.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  My God, you wanna do so well for him. Yeah, even though, I mean, of course he's an incredibly, incredibly successful man, but you are a small, small cog in the chain of his huge empire. But the way that he, he believed in us guys, and obviously myself and David Coulthard, we were sort of there when the team was stock going. So it was, it was the formative years of Red Bull racing and getting, now they've formed one team. It's one of the best teams there is. So, um,

• 48:02Speaker 00

  Isn't it funny though?

• 48:03Speaker 01

  Back on the great memories with that.

• 48:05Speaker 00

  Isn't it funny how athletes perform best when they wanna play well for the, let's call it the coach?

• 48:10Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 48:11Speaker 00

  You know, and you, you, we just, if we just go back to footy analogy, some of the great coaches, the team wanna play for that individual and they wanna win for that coach.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  Oh, sure.

• 48:19Speaker 00

  And, and it's, it's, it's same in business too. Like there are some people who you just wanna do it for them.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:24Speaker 00

  You're, you're just saying that was, that, that was the sort of sense that you got for yourself. I wanna do well for this dude.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, you're right, Mark. I think it's the pride as well. It's you want him to be proud of

• 48:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:36Speaker 01

  what you're bringing to the table.

• 48:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  You know, and that, that substance and being dependent on you working for him. Cause you know, his name's above the door.

• 48:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:45Speaker 01

  End of the day, his name's above the door and he's paying you to do a job. And of course, I want to be, you know, him to be proud of what you're doing. You're doing everything you can to deliver for, for him. Of course, he's got lots of, you know, he's got a, it's a huge business, but the racing armour was, was one of the biggest business, one of the biggest parts of his, of his empire.

• 49:05Speaker 00

  Massive part of his brain.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  And still is, and still is. To this day, I mean, Dietrich, you know, unfortunately he's not with us anymore, but, um, but you're right. I think when you're, when someone's got the name above the door, um, you know, I've been lucky enough to drive for Porsche too. Porsche, phenomenal brand. I drove, I drove for them after I finished with Red Bull. And, and Dietrich was kind enough to say, mate, I support that move. It's great. They're a great brand. And so that was, again, just the quality of how Dietrich handled that transition was just incredible between the pair of us. But anyway, Porsche, Mr. Porsche, Wolfgang Porsche in the garage.

• 49:34Speaker 00

  Serious?

• 49:35Speaker 01

  I hope you enjoy driving our cars.

• 49:37Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 49:37Speaker 01

  And you're like, that's like, if that doesn't give you goosebumps.

• 49:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:40Speaker 01

  In terms of like, you know, oh, here I am, you know, racing these gorgeous racing cars and Mr. Porsche's there and he's proud of you. I hope you enjoy racing our cars and doing it. It's like.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  Awesome, absolutely awesome.

• 49:54Speaker 00

  Do you still see, would you see that like, cause I mean, I can see that myself sometimes when I was younger. But do you see that as, that's a young, that's still a young, a kid, Mark Webber, the boy.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:05Speaker 00

  Who wanted to do the right thing by Sheenzy.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:08Speaker 00

  And, and instead of putting the ball next to the touch judges' feet.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:13Speaker 00

  He's taken Sheenzy's instructions to help the team.

• 50:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:17Speaker 00

  Get, keep momentum on the field.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:19Speaker 00

  Like, you know, Boxhead, make sure Boxhead got the whole ball. And I'm serious, it's the same kid. But now you're, you know, you're thirty or whatever age you are, it's the same kid.

• 50:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:28Speaker 00

  Being the same person and wants to do the right thing or the best thing for the team.

• 50:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, I think, yeah.

• 50:34Speaker 00

  It's not to say he didn't grow up.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  I do. No, of course, but I think that's always.

• 50:37Speaker 00

  It's indented in your brain.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  Of course, but it comes from the house I grew up in as well.

• 50:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, and for your dad and mum.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Of course, that's the thing, you know, like, it's just, you know, dad was like, he was, he still is to this day. A big practical joker. People that know my old man, like, he's a lunatic. But, you know, when it comes to, you know, just the basics of, you know, turning up on time, pleasing, thank you, sound like all those things in terms of actually being respected and those things, which I think. And also for me, mate, I, I was also representing, I think, Australia as well, you know, like, there was a big gap. There was twenty five years, I think, between Alan Jones winning, winning at that level.

• 51:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  There's only five Australians that have won, mate, in Formula One. Like, it's actually, it's not easy, yes, but you are, of course. I look at, okay, there's a blend of being patriotic, cause you wanna get that. Mate, when I hear, when I hear that national anthem, mate, in the middle step.

• 51:21Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  It just blows me away.

• 51:25Speaker 00

  Goosebumps.

• 51:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know, I just, to this day, like, I just like, you know, to be able to do that, you know, at that level was, for me, was.

• 51:33Speaker 00

  Special on the podium.

• 51:34Speaker 01

  Of course, mate, incredible. Like, and also the people watching, you know, of course, and my family and the, and the commitment, my mechanics down there, like, everyone, you're like, shit, this is the, this is the, the, the execution of actually all that work. And, and you're right, like, it's not just about, you know, oh, it's about everyone else, but it, it's, it's, you are the arrowhead, you're the one that's actually got the accountability and the standards, which you've got to consistently try and bring to the table and keep improving yourself. I think the adaption, we, we touched on that, you have to be able to adapt all the time, right? If you're not adapting, mate.

• 52:03Speaker 00

  Cause they're not the same, it changes.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  Of course, different regulations, you know, look at tennis, look at clay, look, if you wanna win four slams in a year, you know, that's not easy. Clay, cla, uh, grass, you know, here in Rod Labor, and then you've got Flushing Meadow, bang, golfers, different, like, whatever. So, again, the greats can feel, I could jag.

• 52:21Speaker 00

  Adapt.

• 52:21Speaker 01

  A couple of surfaces, mate, I could do a couple of surfaces, but I couldn't win on all four.

• 52:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  Like, you know, so that's, um, so I've got to jagged a few Wimbledon or whatever the equivalent of in our sport, but in terms of like the, but, so I think that adaption thing is a real, a key thing and using your resources, the people around you, how you can get better with that and.

• 52:39Speaker 00

  I love that sense of nationalism or patriotism that you have, like, uh, like you wanna do it for the country.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, but, well, because also there was, like I said, that gap was big and I was, was responsible for like, in a way, like, it was, you know, we've, we've had, obviously, Sir Jack was a three-time world champion in his own car, will never be done again, never be done again. AJ, you know, won world championship eighty, nineteen eighty, and then he won races, and then it was myself, and then it was Daniel, and then there was, now there's Oscar. So, to win at that level, um, I think it knows, because commercially from Australia, we don't move the needle much in this sport. We're not, you know, we're a small country.

• 53:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:19Speaker 01

  Very small country, not just geog, not, we're big in landmass, but geographically, we're obviously, you know, all the big, you know, all the big stuff in America and Europe and Northern Hemisphere. You know, the, the, the, the, the commercial firepower, we don't bring much to the table on that sense, you know, um. We bring our speed and our, our, you know, our, I suppose, the, the, the standards in, and what we can bring to the team.

• 53:45Speaker 00

  But when you say it's only five, it's actually, you're right, it's only five, you just named them, but it's.

• 53:52Speaker 01

  Seventy five years.

• 53:53Speaker 00

  That's a pretty crazy, but do we, do we, are we well represented relative to our size though? Cause Australians tend to always bat beyond their weight.

• 54:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so, mate, pretty well, I think pretty well. Statistically, the guys that have, yeah, the ones that have, I mean, the British have got, you know, so many world champions, cause like, all the, eight of the Formula One teams, or seven of the Formula One teams are based in the UK.

• 54:19Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 54:19Speaker 01

  You know, they're all based there. You've got Ferrari, obviously, in Maranello.

• 54:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  And another, you know, Audi are based in Switzerland, but the rest are based in the UK. So it's, it's, it's a very UK-centric sport, but. So for us to leave here and to go over there, whatever age it is.

• 54:33Speaker 00

  And to break in.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  Break in, you know, culture, all the rest of it, you know, and, and that's part of the test. The Monday to Friday is, I think, the hardest part of the test.

• 54:42Speaker 00

  What do you mean by that?

• 54:44Speaker 01

  No family around.

• 54:45Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 54:46Speaker 01

  You know, the, the, the, the devil finds, you know, time for idle hands.

• 54:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, my mother used to say that.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  Exactly. You know, so when you're, you're looking for shortcuts and, and this and that, like, oh, the excuses, I can't, or maybe, you know, so. When you haven't got your helmet on, or when you're not competing, there's opportunities to find some not great habits.

• 55:07Speaker 00

  Stray.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that's, and you will, and there has, there has been situations, you know that, mate, there's people that have derailed their careers through exactly bad choices Monday to Friday. They had all the other things, the ingredients were there, but they screwed up on.

• 55:23Speaker 00

  They had the talent.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, but they didn't have the mentors.

• 55:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  They didn't have the people to, or they didn't, it didn't convert into their heads, that, that, that, that, that advice at that right time, whatever sport, you know, that was right, you know.

• 55:35Speaker 00

  Or even business, same, same business. I mean, I know some brilliant guys.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 55:38Speaker 00

  Like, absolute geniuses.

• 55:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:41Speaker 00

  Who have stuffed it up. It's funny, I, cause I keep going back to the, how you were brought up by, and the influence your dad had on you, no doubt your mother too, but your, your dad in relation to structure and process and steps and let's call it a discipline.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:56Speaker 00

  A disciplined approach. Those things stuck with you and bode well for you, I think. It seems like.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  I think you're right, mate, but I think, and he wasn't a disciplinarian though.

• 56:05Speaker 00

  No, no, I don't mean that.

• 56:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, we never really had a cross word, but I think, again, it was just the proud, like, you know, in essence, you just, man, I was so lucky to spend time with, you know, with Niki Lauda.

• 56:16Speaker 00

  Niki Lauda, wow.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  Sir Jackie Stewart, you know, some of these people that are, you know, of course, the role of them, maybe, so what can I learn, how, how they roll, what can I do?

• 56:24Speaker 00

  Did you do that consciously?

• 56:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure.

• 56:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  And, and, and those relationships are ones that I've treasured. And I think they, they're the people that actually, and I did search for that, because of course, you want to try and, you know, be the best example of yourself along the way. And of course, dad doesn't have all the answers, but you're like, you know, and, and, and you're into, you're, you circle, because of course, there is a natural point and sometimes where people that are super close to you, sometimes they won't give you the, the medicine you need.

• 56:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:50Speaker 01

  You know, they don't, they, they will, you know, you know, just, you know, sugarcoat things and blow a bit of smoke up your arse and, and those, but at that level, you can't, you can't be, you know, it's such a fine line, right, to, to, to be, you know, hanging in there. And also, you know, having the chance to, to execute week in, week out. So I think that I was lucky enough to also have some nice relationships with those guys, which was really good for me, because, yeah, they, they've, they've been there and seen them, mate, you know, Sir Jackie Stewart, I think, he went to twenty five or thirty funerals, you know.

• 57:24Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  You know, in the seventies, you know, when they were losing so many men racing there. So this is a guy that's dealt with, you know, so Niki Lauda went through so much in his life as well, so. Icons, absolute icons of our sport. And, um, I'd just sit down, mate, you know, Sir Alex Ferguson, mate, the great Manchester United, you know, you've got one mouth.

• 57:43Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  And two ears, use them in that order, you know.

• 57:47Speaker 00

  I like it. So what, what, in F1, um, in Formula One, what would be your, what, what do you think was the greatest highlight of your, of your career?

• 57:54Speaker 01

  Monaco, winning in Monaco twice was, was certainly very, very special. That's probably our Wimbledon, if you like, like, that's a very hard weekend to put together.

• 58:03Speaker 00

  How, how do you mean?

• 58:04Speaker 01

  It's a tough track, it's a, it's a street circuit.

• 58:06Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 58:07Speaker 01

  It's really not designed for the cars. So it's you against the track, because it's such a, it's a ribbon of asphalt with, with Armco pinned up on either side of the track. And you've got to be, the weekend is about, you know, the risk you're prepared to take and when you're prepared to put it all on the line, which is the last part of qualifying, cause that's when they set the grid for the race. So you cannot overstep that mark at any point on the Friday, Saturday and practice. You've got two practice sessions on Friday, you've got one practice session on Saturday morning, and then Saturday afternoon is the moment of, you've got like, it's a seventy second lap, plus a minus two seconds, depending on the grip of the track, seventy seconds, where you have to be.

• 58:47Speaker 00

  Seventy seconds.

• 58:48Speaker 01

  Seventy seconds, when that is the foundation of the weekend. Bang, seventy seconds, or sixty eight seconds, and you've got to execute.

• 58:58Speaker 00

  Cause I've, I've been, I've, I've been to two Grand Prix's there and, um, and for those people who don't know it, it's sort of a, there's a, there's a tunnel there that, and, and it sort of looks to me as a, a street, it's sort of quite narrow.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:11Speaker 00

  And you can.

• 59:12Speaker 01

  It's tight, yeah.

• 59:12Speaker 00

  Very tight.

• 59:13Speaker 01

  It's not really for the cars, yeah. So, um, and keep in mind our eye line, Mark, like the eye line, where like, it's sort of knee height, when you and I are standing.

• 59:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:22Speaker 01

  Your eye line's very low, so the sensation for speed is, is, is, is quite high. So you're the top rail of Armco is well above your eye line. You're not looking over the bloody fence, mate.

• 59:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 59:32Speaker 01

  You're like, you, you know, you've got to Armco both sides. So they were big, they were huge highlights for me, mate, to, to, to win there. Um, and the British Grand Prix, which is another, that's been on the calendar for, it's, it's always been on the calendar. That's a very, very, very famous Grand Prix. So I managed to win that twice, which was nice. So, um, yeah, so a couple of.

• 59:51Speaker 00

  How do you control your ego when you're, after you get off the podium? I mean, everybody's, you know, doing the champagne thing, whatever, you know, and there must be a party on after, but. Like, how do you?

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  Red Bull party good, mate. The parties were good with Red Bull. Um, I think again, mate, the podium ceremony is quite, you know, you've got the, you've got the. You know, the dignitary side, you know, got people coming up and obviously handing the trophies out and things like that. And then obviously you spray champagne, which is, which is a, is a. Celebration.

• 1:00:17Speaker 00

  It's a convention, like, you gotta do it.

• 1:00:19Speaker 01

  There's the fact, there's a story about it, with apparently there's champagne bottles and Jackie Stewart, he really thinks it was his, he accidentally come across it, but it was actually the champagne bottle sitting there in a hot race. All day and then he was trying to stop the champagne coming out, being a good Scotsman, you know, he's trying to save, save money and save the champagne in the bottle, but obviously.

• 1:00:35Speaker 00

  Best bankers. If you're ever gonna open up a bank, you want them to be a tell us.

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, get a Scotsman to do it. But, um, anyway, yeah, he, he said the more he pressed on the bottle, the further it went, you know. So anyway, so, and then, you know, it's been a tradition that the champagne spraying is, uh, is, is, is, uh, after a Grand Prix. So. Um, and then you go back to it. You've got a lot of press. You do a lot of press, every language. You know, I don't speak lots of languages, but obviously you've got to go around, you know, you've got to.

• 1:01:03Speaker 00

  There's a process.

• 1:01:03Speaker 01

  Which is pretty repetitive because you pretty much want to get back to your team.

• 1:01:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  The, of course it's important, you've got to talk about your race and everything, but it does get, you know, when you've done thirty or thirty-five of the same interview. Um, then you get back to your team and then, yeah, and then the pride, the pride is there. You think about your mechanics, mate. Think about the guy, the meticulous preparation.

• 1:01:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  They, you know, I mean, some of these mechanics, we call them like your, your, your main, your front end mechanic or your number one mechanic. You know, I'd have them beside my mommy hospital. That's the trust I have.

• 1:01:36Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  Two or three of these guys. And if you rang them and said, mate, I need whatever. Boom. So the trust, when he looks at you and says the car's ready to go. He's responsible for that whole car going out. Cause keep in mind, mate, in five or six seconds, I've got the car on the limit. So we don't. There's not much, there's a bit of a warm up, but there's not much. We're generally straight up it. Like we, we are into it. So. It's like a little mini aeroplane in many ways. So the, the preparation that he's got to do on it. So you wanna see him. You wanna see, of course. Team bosses, you wanna see the, the whole team. Because without the team, without all them, mate. Catering staff, who's done all my meals all the way, all the chefs, who's the physio, you know, all the people that done your travel, you know, everyone.

• 1:02:19Speaker 01

  They've, you know, how did I get there? How did I get home? Mate, it's a big team.

• 1:02:23Speaker 00

  What I'm eating, where I'm staying.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, all that.

• 1:02:25Speaker 00

  Well, where, where's your family then, your wife? So you, where does that fit in the next?

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  She's got a few races. So she went to, yeah, she'd probably go to every, you know, third or fourth race. Uh, because she was also pivotal in my career in terms of, you know, logistics and managing staff. It was like, so that was, that was important. So she was. You know, good, also there for the bad days too, mate. We can talk about the cracking days, but also the shit ones too, which, which, which are rough. But, and that comes with the territory. So, um, yeah, she's there, you know, but, um, she was tucked away a lot.

• 1:02:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:56Speaker 01

  She wasn't really, you know, she wasn't, you know, big on the limelight. And back then, there's no social media, mate, and all that sort of stuff. So now.

• 1:03:01Speaker 00

  Thank God.

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a beautiful thing, isn't it?

• 1:03:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. And we can imagine. They go.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  It's good for the podcast, though, mate. It's good for the pod.

• 1:03:08Speaker 00

  Now, we, we love, we do love social media. Our, our, our audience love social media. Well, let's just talk about, um, uh, Vettel. Um, and I, I didn't, I mean, I sort of realised, but I, I started to really think about it. You're getting told by your team.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:22Speaker 00

  To do something and you're, and, and, uh, what, what's the word? Uh, what do they call it? Uh, uh, multi twenty one.

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  Twenty one, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:03:30Speaker 00

  What the hell does multi twenty one mean?

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:03:33Speaker 00

  And explain that moment.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  I was, yeah, I was in Malaysian Grand Prix.

• 1:03:37Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  Two thousand and twelve, I believe. Um, no, thirteen, yeah, my last year with Red Bull. And, um. Basically, if a team rings up and says this is the order we want you to finish the race in, then, then that's what they.

• 1:03:51Speaker 00

  But I understand that though.

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  Well, because, because sometimes you, you, you know, you're, you're like the, up until a point, not from the start, but like the last part of the race.

• 1:04:00Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  Like if you've done like eighty-five percent of the Grand Prix, they could ring up and say that this, but very rare. Super rare circumstance, particularly in Red Bull, it was very, very rare that, that, that happened. Um.

• 1:04:12Speaker 00

  Where were you situated?

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  I was leading the race.

• 1:04:14Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and Sebastian was running second at the time. Um, and he was. Struggling a little bit in the first part of the Grand Prix. So he was under pressure for some, but basically around the pit stops where he was trying to. He could have got out positioned by some people behind him. So you can, you can, you can sort of help in a way by taking a suboptimal. Pit, pits, pits for myself.

• 1:04:36Speaker 00

  Slow yourself down a bit.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  To help, to help, to help, to help him clear those guys. And then we re, reset things at the last pit stop. Uh, which was the case, um, because all the, the chats before that, like, we were not competitive. We, we were blown away that we were leading. We were one, two in that race. So it was, it was quite a surprise. And we had some reliability things in the background as well. So the cars were on the limit, were taking some risks with certain things and.

• 1:05:00Speaker 01

  And yeah, the, the, the call come that it was, it was car two, multi two, one, car two, which was me and car one. That's how we want to finish. Um.

• 1:05:08Speaker 00

  In that order.

• 1:05:09Speaker 01

  In that order, yeah.

• 1:05:10Speaker 00

  You, you first.

• 1:05:11Speaker 01

  So, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I turned everything down, look after the cars, engines and like, let's just get the cars home. Cause everything's, you know, we've cleared Lewis, everything's enough and. And Seb, Seb, um, obviously went, went against that and when we started racing, yeah. Um.

• 1:05:27Speaker 01

  Can, can be, uh, it was, it was just, there was a, I mean, that was just one, where there was so much. We'd been teammates for a long time. So there was many, many things that went into that. Um, and look, Seb and I got on well today. Like we, we, we got on.

• 1:05:42Speaker 00

  What about then?

• 1:05:43Speaker 01

  No, no, not then, you know, and he, he apologised, of course, after the race. Like it was a bit of a, it was a bit of a, bit of a shit show to say the least, but, um.

• 1:05:51Speaker 00

  The media would love that.

• 1:05:52Speaker 01

  Of course I would have done, mate, yeah. But like, I was already, I was already given Porsche a handshake at the end of twelve.

• 1:05:57Speaker 00

  To leave.

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  To leave. So, so irrespective, you know, I was, I was going, and I did in fourteen, I went to Porsche and all that was good. Um, so I think that. It was a bigger deal than, than it was probably made out. Um, yeah, it was. But also for the team, again, the challenging for them because, you know, you've got the two drivers, um, you know, going rogue on each other.

• 1:06:22Speaker 00

  Well, you, but you didn't, you, you, you adhered to the, to the instruction, didn't you?

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, I left my engine. That's probably one of my regrets. I should have turned my engine back up, um, and, and.

• 1:06:30Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  A bit, bit, bit more of a, so I, I should have, I should have done that, but I didn't. But, um.

• 1:06:34Speaker 00

  But what, but do, do you regret anything about it?

• 1:06:37Speaker 01

  Um, I probably should, only that. I should have, I should have done that was, uh, turn my engine back up and. Gave it everything, but, um, I just, yeah, I just didn't. I don't know why I didn't, but I didn't, but, uh.

• 1:06:48Speaker 00

  But what happened? Because, because I know your Instagram, uh, uh, handle's Aussie Grid. But what happened at that point?

• 1:06:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:55Speaker 00

  And what does that mean? Um, I mean, do you feel like you let yourself down on the Aussie Grid bit?

• 1:06:59Speaker 01

  Um, well, I fought as hard as I could on the day. Like I, I fought as, as hard as I could. In that last part of the Grand Prix and, um, yeah, so it was sort of like, and of course in your mind is like, well, what's. You're, you're getting constantly communication that the, the race is off.

• 1:07:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:16Speaker 01

  And the race is on. So you're sort of like, it's a, it's a bizarre set of circumstances kicking off and, um.

• 1:07:21Speaker 00

  You feel like hitting him on the chin, Aussie style? Uh. Just for a moment.

• 1:07:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, yeah, it was an interesting, it's an interesting few weeks after that. But, um, yeah, but that, like, there's always, you know, but I think that the.

• 1:07:37Speaker 01

  The fans wanna see that too.

• 1:07:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's great for racing.

• 1:07:40Speaker 01

  The fans wanna see that.

• 1:07:41Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  Like, also it's, it's, it's the two, you know, and also by the way, Seb, and I think we've both said this to each other. I mean, Seb had my measure most of the time, but also we. We pushed each other.

• 1:07:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:52Speaker 01

  To really good bound, good levels, you know, and that, that was, you know, that was. Important for us as a team. You know, you've got to push each other. You have to have the internal. You've got to have the internal rivalry for the whole team. Yeah, rivalry. It's a competition.

• 1:08:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:05Speaker 01

  It's a competition. At the end of the day, it is a competition. It's not like after you, sir. You know, so you're still gonna have that, that fight. But on that particular day. Which was very rare, but on that particular day, the team thought it was right just to cool our jets, but, um, didn't end up like that.

• 1:08:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, but was that your last Formula One?

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  That was my last year in F1, yeah. So my last race was in Brazil. Um.

• 1:08:27Speaker 01

  Yep, finished, uh, on my terms, which was really, made also, you know, that's where the sport's been tremendous to me, mate. Finished on my terms. Um, and yeah, finished, uh, on the podium in Brazil, uh, with Fernando and Sebastian, two great rivals of mine. Um, two phenomenal operators and it was a, it was a good finish.

• 1:08:45Speaker 00

  So what, what is, what is someone like, I mean, you know, you're only a young man and obviously, you know, obviously, but perhaps you're in a situation where. You know, your, your money situation is pretty good, like you're, you're, you're, you're, you're comfortable. Um, and your family's comfortable. Um, but you're young, you've got plenty of energy. What do you do after this?

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's good, mate. Um, good question. Cause I think that that next phase, again, I leant on. The experienced guys, you know, what does that next phase look like? Because at thirty-eight, thirty-nine, when I stopped racing. I still, I mean, I had a great, I squeezed a lemon, did what I could. And at that point, I was starting to see more risks than ever. Which is not a good place to be.

• 1:09:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  You, you're starting to see like that concrete wall has always been there.

• 1:09:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:09:34Speaker 01

  My whole career at this, a random track, it's always been there. Then fuck, I just noticed that. Like, you know, I'm starting to see stuff that I don't wanna be seeing. So that's the first thing. It's like, shit, I need to be probably thinking about pulling, pulling up stumps here. And then it's like, the, I never, the, the great bit of advice I got was that. I've, cause of course you're tired, end of your career, you think you wanna have a break and, and, and, and, and. People, again, or so Jackie said, if you have two or three, four years off. You're going to be invisible, you know, you need to, you know, go and work with, which I did with Porsche in sports cars, which at the time I'm like, this is a bit tight or maybe a gap and go back into competition, but he was right. You've got to go into

• 1:10:17Speaker 00

  Straight away.

• 1:10:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. And also, and then negotiating that contract as a Formula One driver compared to negotiating when you're two or three years off and coming back in, you're going to get a different number.

• 1:10:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:25Speaker 01

  That's important. And, you know, so you feel you need the break, but keep going, keep going. I did some media. I'm so lucky, man. I'm with Rolex. I'm with Porsche globally. Both those brands are incredible. Great relationship with Red Bull. So those things for me, um, and I've been with him a long, long, long time, you know, I like that loyalty component, you know, which I again, I like, you know, of course you get other little offers here and there, but it's, but it's, it's, I want to be true to the brands that have believed in me as well and, and my, and my backstory and the rest of it. So I think that that it happens fast, mate. I've been retired 13 years.

• 1:10:58Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:10:59Speaker 01

  So yeah, coming up to 50 next week.

• 1:11:00Speaker 00

  Doesn't feel.

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, coming to 50 next week. Um, there, mate, you're flying for 70, son. You're, you're cruising, you know, so it's incredible.

• 1:11:08Speaker 00

  So, so what, okay, what are you going to do for your 50th?

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  Oh, 50th, um, it'll involve some red, good steak, um, close friends and

• 1:11:18Speaker 00

  Pretty simple.

• 1:11:18Speaker 01

  Motorbikes probably, mate. Yeah, yeah, motorbike. Right now, I think of, you know, it's experience. Like, I think of every, like, I'm, sports been so good to me. I've met so many incredible people. Um, and I've, you know, I've had some dodged some bullets along the way. And so a 50th, like it's a, it's a milestone, but I'm looking at every, not every day, that's, you know, it's a bit, you know, a bit tacky saying every day is a freaking birthday, but I'm, I, I genuinely, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm stoked with,

• 1:11:48Speaker 01

  you know, that I can have these great opportunities to, you know, to look back and.

• 1:11:53Speaker 00

  Yeah. So that's gratitude. Like, I mean, how important is gratitude in your life?

• 1:11:58Speaker 01

  Very important. Yeah. Because I think that, you know, I, I see again, um, without being morbid, but of course I've lost a few mates that I've raced against. So, you know, you think about, yeah, you, you, you, you have to accept that, you know, you've been incredibly fortunate along the way and enjoyed good health and, you know, I've had a couple of injuries here and there, but in terms of like, and learning off other people on the way, watching other sports, watching people's transition into like, say, post-career, all these things. It's fascinating the dynamics of how all that rolls and, and, and I've again, just again, been so lucky to take counsel off some great people around the world. And I think that gratitude always comes back to it. You know, it's that, you know, that, I think that's that great Serena Williams line where the discipline, you get choices. No discipline, choices are forced on you, you know?

• 1:12:43Speaker 00

  Wow, that's a good saying.

• 1:12:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. So you, it'll catch up with you. No discipline will catch up with you. We know that. You know that, mate.

• 1:12:50Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, I have to stay. Otherwise I go Captain Rats. I mean, I've got to stay on the, on straight now.

• 1:12:55Speaker 01

  So you've got your method to your madness. And I think that, that, that discipline in all people that have had some

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  air and a mof success, you know, it, it's, it's, it's the discipline and the concei- and turn it up, mate. You've got to turn up.

• 1:13:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:13:10Speaker 01

  You know, if you're not turning up, you're toast.

• 1:13:12Speaker 00

  Good. But, because someone once asked me what, how I would describe success. How, how do you describe success for yourself?

• 1:13:20Speaker 01

  I think it's longevity, you know, in your career and your chosen field. I think if you're in there for a long time, I think that's, that's success.

• 1:13:27Speaker 00

  Not just winning Formula One, but staying in the game.

• 1:13:29Speaker 01

  Of course, mate. Yeah. Yeah. Like you, the first two or three years in your career, that are the hardest, I think in most, because that's the, that's the, if you can get through those first two or three years at that elite level, then, you know, you're sort of like, it's not getting easy, but you've sort of broken your way through and you're, and then you have these, you know, I always look at people that have a long career in anything, you know, that's speaks volumes to their, to their standards and their, and their discipline. And the success of, you know, of course, but yeah, you need to share that, you know, give back a bit.

• 1:14:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, pay forward.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  Of course, you know, I had the Tasmania Challenge. I had an adventure race down there back into, you know, so that was, that was, I enjoyed doing that for, for kids with leukemia. So there's, there's things where if you're in a position to give back a bit, of course, that, that makes you feel, makes you feel good. Um.

• 1:14:18Speaker 00

  Do you have much interaction with Piastry?

• 1:14:20Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, sure. Yeah, of course.

• 1:14:22Speaker 00

  I mean, he's the, the latest and the greatest.

• 1:14:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:25Speaker 00

  Right now.

• 1:14:25Speaker 01

  And it's been so enjoyable to have him, you know, to help guide him.

• 1:14:31Speaker 00

  Cause people guided you.

• 1:14:32Speaker 01

  Early, of course, early in his career, you know, and I think that, you know, it's hard to get that's, that strategy piece right to, you know, to, to get it. So to help Oscar, you know, in that, in that, in that early part of his career and he's an immense talent. We know that. Um, so it's been enjoyable to do that, but that's obviously my, it's also because you know, whether it's again, my happen about whether it's Alex Ferguson or Mourinho, all these great football managers or whatever, some of the best guys weren't guns.

• 1:15:03Speaker 00

  In their career, no.

• 1:15:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know, and I'm not saying that's me with Oscar. I'm just saying like, you know, I, some of my biggest lessons, of course, was getting done by the Schumacher, that you're seeing how, you know, Seb operated or seeing how Lewis operated or, you know, I've done cycling with Lance Armstrong. I've done, you know, hang on, Maria Sharapova, phenomenal woman. She's what she's done. Like she's had her own controversies, but incredible how she goes about things in terms, but so you, this snapshot of all this, and it's a melting pot of information. It's sort of like, you know, these are the things which we can contribute towards and help you and, you know, sort of blend it all in because that's, that's, um, something that you, you hope you can be positive on someone's career.

• 1:15:42Speaker 00

  I, I think paying forward your luck to meet people.

• 1:15:46Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:15:47Speaker 00

  And maybe it's not luck, it's probably meant to happen, but what they told you and then being able to pay it forward to someone like Oscar

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:15:53Speaker 00

  is pretty important, especially at the young part, early parts of their career, because that's

• 1:15:57Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:15:58Speaker 00

  that's when they need it. Cause you can say, well, here's a few guardrails for you, mate.

• 1:16:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:02Speaker 00

  But also there's going to be a few bumps you've got to get over.

• 1:16:04Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 1:16:05Speaker 00

  And, uh, they probably don't need you to pat them on the back that much.

• 1:16:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. And of course, like at the, the last part of your career, I think you, you know, you've got, you've got your way, right? But obviously it's, as you say, that, that the, the, the forks, the forks in the road, as I mean, business or sport or whatever, or people turning up and the backslappers or people turning up and you've, you've got to be.

• 1:16:24Speaker 00

  There's plenty of them.

• 1:16:26Speaker 01

  This is, you know, you've seen, or you've seen that, you know, you know, where that.

• 1:16:30Speaker 00

  But it'd be, be, be, be magnified by a hundred times for you.

• 1:16:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:33Speaker 00

  Like, I mean, like, you know, you're on a global stage. You're on a, you're in a global sport, like truly a global sport. You're one of the most, you're in one of the most glamorous sports there are. I mean, the money gets thrown around and the whole thing's very extraordinary, glamorous. We're talking about Monaco for a start.

• 1:16:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:50Speaker 00

  You know, Monaco Grand Prix.

• 1:16:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:51Speaker 00

  Um, and everybody wants to backslap you. I mean, how do you work out who's cool and who's not cool? Like who's genuine? I mean, what's that process like?

• 1:17:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:02Speaker 00

  Um. You have to sort of hang on, relax.

• 1:17:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it takes, you know, judge of character obviously is, is a skill that's required, right? To work out who, who's with you on the journey, who's not with you on the journey. Um, I think that I've had same P A for 25 years, mate. I've had the same people, pretty much the same people from day on with my first sponsor, the Alapages boys are

• 1:17:25Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 1:17:26Speaker 01

  I'm catching up with them. So, that's, and I haven't answered your question, but if I'm that, that, that part of actually you're sort of, you, you stick to the people that, you know, you just

• 1:17:38Speaker 01

  weeding out, I suppose, the ones that, you know, come and go.

• 1:17:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:17:41Speaker 01

  Um, and we all have the selection process, which is we're all different on that, on that, I, I think on that phase, but I think that

• 1:17:48Speaker 01

  the consistency of actually finding the, the people that genuinely have your back and are keen for you to do, to do well all the time. Um, they're the, they're the gold nuggets. They're the ones that.

• 1:18:01Speaker 00

  Cause you could easily waste your time. Chase, chasing.

• 1:18:03Speaker 01

  Of course, lots of taikis. Yeah, lots of taikis. And people are, you know, or, you know, that wanting stuff or, you know, how, you know, where's the strategy piece or, you know, like all that. And so I think that that's, um, yeah, it's, and you've got to be good, pretty good at saying no.

• 1:18:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's an important piece.

• 1:18:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. Saying no. Yeah. Like, no.

• 1:18:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:18:21Speaker 01

  Not, not, not for us or not for me or not for you, you know? Um, and

• 1:18:26Speaker 00

  In fact, that's a really important D mark, saying no.

• 1:18:28Speaker 01

  Saying no.

• 1:18:29Speaker 00

  In a polite way.

• 1:18:30Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:18:30Speaker 00

  Cause that, that's hard.

• 1:18:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:31Speaker 00

  Cause a lot of times we want to say yes to everyone.

• 1:18:33Speaker 01

  Roll over, roll over, roll over, roll over, you know, like, you know, especially like the Merc, this Merc decision I made, the Mercedes, like at that point, like it was Anne and I, my wife and I said, like, you know, we can stay on the comfortable street or, you know, yeah, so, but this is, F1's over. It's over. It's gone.

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  Kenny Rogers song, mate, right? You know, and hold them and fold them, but.

• 1:18:54Speaker 00

  I love that song.

• 1:18:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, great song. But I'm like, you know, let's, let's, no, we're going to go all in. Let's just, you know, and done in the right way with like still, and done, but I want to, I want to get back off this comfortable ship. We're going to get back swimming again and go. So I think that, um, yeah, those, those tough decisions are, uh, along the way as well with the right people, you know, and then, yeah, they, they're the corner.

• 1:19:19Speaker 00

  How important is it to have Anne in your corner all this time?

• 1:19:23Speaker 01

  Incredible. Yeah. Very special woman. Um, yeah, she, uh, what's, crack is we're nearly 30 years now. Um.

• 1:19:31Speaker 00

  That's amazing.

• 1:19:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, yeah. And I think that, um.

• 1:19:34Speaker 00

  What makes it work for that?

• 1:19:35Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:19:36Speaker 00

  What, what, what's the, one or two elements?

• 1:19:38Speaker 01

  I think that, um, I mean, obviously the loyalty is through the roof. Obviously we're there for each other. Um, I think that she, um.

• 1:19:50Speaker 01

  It's down to chemistry.

• 1:19:51Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:19:52Speaker 01

  It's just chemistry.

• 1:19:53Speaker 00

  Best friends?

• 1:19:53Speaker 01

  It's just, yeah, of course, just chemistry. And I think that, you know, and, and dad, like, growing up is like me. Drugs, I have an issue with your son, you know, lying to me. Or and also if you muck around with your women, when you know, you deal with me. We've got problems. So that stuff was, you know, in also gambling, you know, it wasn't.

• 1:20:11Speaker 00

  But they're sacrosanct things.

• 1:20:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, fun, mate. Holy shit, we're gonna have some fun.

• 1:20:15Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:20:16Speaker 01

  We're gonna have some fun along the way.

• 1:20:17Speaker 00

  But there's some non-negotiables.

• 1:20:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, there is some non-negotiables and, and that is, is important to me, you know, with, with Annie. So I think that, you know, and, and of course, you know, we, we've been through, like any relationship, you go through some, you know, like

• 1:20:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:20:30Speaker 01

  some, some testy waters, but obviously the, the spine and the, and, and, and the, the rigor that comes with, you know, being a, being a partnership. Um, is solid as a rock. So, um, yeah, it's been great. And we've been through a lot, of course, our decision and also blending that professional, I think it's very good that the professional boundaries to the personal, personal.

• 1:20:47Speaker 00

  That'd be tough.

• 1:20:48Speaker 01

  Of course, in our hobbies and I think that we like, and you know, I love nature, I love the outdoors, I love all the stuff which she does as well. And you find those things which, but she's driven, you know, she's driven, she's a driven woman.

• 1:20:58Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 1:20:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's driven.

• 1:21:00Speaker 00

  That's important.

• 1:21:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course. Yeah, she has drive and, and all those things which, um, you know, of course rubs off on me as well. So both of us in terms of, you know, sort of trying to have that good teamwork of, you know, cause often you are there and you close the door and it is the period you go, okay, what are we doing now? Like shit, we've got some decisions to make. Or how are we going? And what are we doing here? Or, you know, and you sort of, you pull the rain and off you go. And here we are thirty years later. Um, because, you know, when I left to go over there, my, a lot of people said I'll be back in six months, you know, so, and I'm still not back now, you know, which is not, uh, in, uh, not saying that I won't be back, but in terms of like, it's worked out okay.

• 1:21:36Speaker 00

  And you come back here much?

• 1:21:38Speaker 01

  About two and a half months a year. So mainly mum and dad, you know, I'm there at an age now where I wanna spend a bit more time with them, which I'm doing, um, which I enjoy. Um, I mean, again, mate, I'm watching NRL mate, I'm watching, you know, like whenever overseas, of course, I'm taking an interest in Australia.

• 1:21:54Speaker 00

  State of Origin?

• 1:21:54Speaker 01

  I still will be, of course, you're a great result this year, mate.

• 1:21:56Speaker 00

  Unbelievable.

• 1:21:57Speaker 01

  Great result.

• 1:21:57Speaker 00

  How good?

• 1:21:58Speaker 01

  They're the Queenslanders. Where are the Queenslanders? Loza.

• 1:22:01Speaker 00

  They've, yeah, of course they've disappeared all of a sudden.

• 1:22:03Speaker 01

  I know, mate. Yeah, yeah. So, uh.

• 1:22:04Speaker 00

  And you be, are you disappointed your, uh, the Raiders aren't gonna, they're not, I don't think you're.

• 1:22:08Speaker 01

  I know, mate.

• 1:22:08Speaker 00

  You're done. You're cooked for the year.

• 1:22:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, mate. I think the first part of the year, I mean, obviously we just bled a lot of points there.

• 1:22:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:22:15Speaker 01

  Uh, Hudson Young, Hudson Young recently, I think it was tough, losing, losing him the last few rounds.

• 1:22:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:22:20Speaker 01

  Um, I know Ricky, uh, was pretty disappointed after last match. Um.

• 1:22:24Speaker 00

  Did you go to the matches? If you're here, would you go to a match?

• 1:22:27Speaker 01

  Uh, I, I'm very rarely here, mate. I've never been to a State of Origin.

• 1:22:32Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 1:22:32Speaker 01

  Which is pisses me off.

• 1:22:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, we should, you should come back next year.

• 1:22:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, mate. Yeah, I'd love to, mate.

• 1:22:38Speaker 00

  Cause Kingy, I know Kingy quite well as a new coach, he's, he's our assistant coach at Roosters.

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:42Speaker 00

  Um, and if you want, like, tell me and I'll, I'll sort of be a tick, tick. And Bana might wanna go too.

• 1:22:47Speaker 01

  No, he's not a Leggy.

• 1:22:48Speaker 00

  No, but he told me that he might become a Roosters supporter. I, I, I asked him.

• 1:22:52Speaker 01

  Well, cause the same, he's at the same colours as frigging St Kilda probably, that's why.

• 1:22:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. I, I asked him and he said, uh, yeah, maybe I could come with a Roosters fan. Any Roosters, Eric Banner's gonna become a Roosters supporter. I mean, they got Russell Crowe's house, but we will have Eric Banner. He's a good mate of yours, isn't he?

• 1:23:06Speaker 01

  Oh, mate. Well, this is the reason I'm on here.

• 1:23:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:23:08Speaker 01

  With you today.

• 1:23:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:23:09Speaker 01

  Because, you know, I said, because mate, I don't, you know, sitting here talking about yourself, it's a bit, it's a bit out of the top, isn't it? So, um.

• 1:23:16Speaker 00

  Well, people wanna hear about you though, mate.

• 1:23:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. You, but you know, it's trying to, it's, it is, it is, it is that. But, um, you've got, I mean, you know, blowing smoke, mate. Well, it's just the, the style of an Eric. I said, did you enjoy it? I guess, yeah, I really enjoyed it. And, you know, Eric and I are really good mates. And, um, yeah, but look, mate, I've, yeah.

• 1:23:32Speaker 00

  Well, if you ever wanna go to, if you ever wanna go to Orange, mate, just reach out, mate. I'm, I'm happy to.

• 1:23:36Speaker 01

  Nah, I'd love to go, mate.

• 1:23:36Speaker 00

  I'll get, I'll get some tickets for you and, and bring Banner along. We can actually teach him about rugby league.

• 1:23:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, cause his AFL touch footy now, you think it's touch footy or not?

• 1:23:45Speaker 00

  AFL touch footy? I, I can't watch it like. No, I'm actually a Colin with supporter. I hate to say it, but I'm a Colin with everyone.

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  Phenomenal athletes, mate. Look, both, both codes have got this stuff, you know, the AFL, the distance they run.

• 1:23:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, twenty Ks in a game.

• 1:23:57Speaker 01

  Big engine. The field's, fuck, such a big field, isn't it? To run and just, so, yeah, but no, yep. I'm watching it all, mate. So I'm, I'm, um, of course, I'm, I'm so patriotic still, love Australia and, um, whenever I can get back here, uh, with a small window I get, I love coming back here and checking it out, mate.

• 1:24:13Speaker 00

  Mate, Mark, we're Australians, love you, mate. You've been fantastic. Thanks very much. Everything has been awesome.

• 1:24:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, thanks, mate. Cheers, mate.