Pod Insights Straight Talk with Mark Bouris Kellie Sloane: NSW Opposition Leader's Pitch to New South Wales About this episode In this conversation with NSW Opposition Leader Kellie Sloane, she explains why she believes New South Wales has gone from the nation's top-performing economy to the bottom of the pack under Labor's watch.
Kellie discusses her journey from country journalism to opposition leadership, her experience during the Bondi terror attack, and her strategy for defeating a first-term government.
She also addresses federal-state tensions within Labor, the importance of assimilation in modern Australia, and why authenticity matters more than ever in contemporary politics.
New South Wales economic decline under Labor government Federal-state tensions over GST and infrastructure funding The Bondi Junction terrorist attack response Assimilation versus multiculturalism debate Coalition relationship between Liberals and Nationals Presidential-style campaigning in state elections Young people's disillusionment with traditional politics Join my exclusive Mentored+ community: https://mentored.com.au/become-a-member/
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Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 Kelly Stone, welcome to Straight Talk.
0:01 Speaker 01 It's great to be here.
0:03 Speaker 00 You are now the New South Wales leader of the opposition. That's a pretty big task, given the, let's call it the popularity of Mins. How do you feel about that? How does it go? Like, and do you guys actually get at each other? Or, I mean, that seems to happen in federal politics.
0:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
0:19 Speaker 00 It doesn't seem to happen that much in state politics, at least here in New South Wales.
0:22 Speaker 01 Look, I think we get along pretty well as people, but we have some pretty big policy differences. So where we've had a, probably a gentle write-in in terms of the Labour Liberal relationship, there'll probably be increasingly more, you know, genuine arguments over policy and the direction of the state.
0:45 Speaker 01 But yeah, he's, you know, he's a likeable premier, he's a popular premier. But I would argue that behind that lies a government that is failing New South Wales. So I've got a big job to do.
0:58 Speaker 00 Yeah, convincing New South Wales people that that's the case. The federal politics is like a bear pit. They're at each other within the party, their own parties. They're at each other, party against party.
1:11 Speaker 00 We've got, you know, One Nation sort of ragging everybody, left, right and centre, everyone ragging One Nation, and then they're calling each other out, like, you know, it's like an attack on Pauline Hanson, it's an attack on Albanese, it's an attack on, not so much attack on Angus at this stage, because he hasn't really put his head up as the, you know, hasn't really been annoying you yet as a proper leader, he is a proper leader, but I mean, in a media sense, in a public sense. What do you think about that level of politics? I mean, why is it like that? And how do you reflect on that as the leader of the opposition in New South Wales?
1:42 Speaker 01 Well, it's interesting. And New South Wales Parliament has been called the bear pit for a reason, even like 100 years ago. They actually, there were fisticuffs in the chamber and we see verbal fisticuffs.
1:52 Speaker 00 I don't mind a bit of that.
1:53 Speaker 01 Look, you know, I, I, I can be really strong, but I do it in probably a different way, because relatively speaking, compared to many other politicians, I'm new to politics. I've only been in the game a few years, so I bring a lot of life experience. Experience outside of politics and I I wanna do this differently. I I can be tough, ask my boys, I can I can deliver a line with a look that will um you know, hopefully put people in their place, but I don't think I need to uh to yell too much, but I must be strong and and there's a reason for that and that is because I've got an election to win and it is um highly unusual to overturn a first term Labour government.
2:37 Speaker 01 But I believe we need to do that, our state's economy is going backwards on their watch. Chris Minns has already said that is leaving next term, so you might be voting for Mr. Nice Guy this term, but what are you getting afterwards? And I tell you what you're getting, you're getting a government that has driven our economy backwards from the top performing economy in the country, the G S P around four point one percent when the coalition left government to an economy in New South Wales that is the bottom of the pack. Now, we've gone from the top to the bottom, our G S P is now zero point nine percent. Inflation is high.
3:12 Speaker 00 You might explain what G S P is.
3:14 Speaker 01 It's sorry, it's gross state product, so it's really a it's a measure of our productivity in this state, it is going backwards, businesses are closing at a record rate, sixty two hundred closed their doors in New South Wales last year, our inflation is high, uh and we're being doted by the federal government on the budget, so it's a government that is getting bigger, that is spending, that can't do a deal, um that is rewarding their union mates who got them in there in the first place. So I I need to, a very, in a very determined way, remind the public of what is at stake if they vote for Labour again next year.
3:48 Speaker 00 You mentioned your uh your your sons.
3:50 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:51 Speaker 00 And uh let's have a look at Kelly Sloan as a person, um maybe you could explain, like, where you grew up, what your deal was, whereabouts in Australia did you grow up?
4:02 Speaker 01 Well, so I'm a country girl at heart, so I live in one of the most highly densely populated parts of Australia at the moment, in the eastern suburbs of Sydney, but I I grew up in country towns, firstly in Port Lincoln on the west coast of South Australia, it's tuna fishing town.
4:17 Speaker 00 Been there.
4:18 Speaker 01 And then mostly in the Barossa Valley, growing up in South Australia, so. Dad who ran a small business, mum who worked at the local school as the principal's assistant, brother and sister, went to the local high school and then wanted to be a journalist. And that was my first big career.
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5:21 Speaker 00 To learn more, head to join.whoop.com/mentored and get one month off your annual Whoop membership. What does growing up like that inform you as an individual? And what would you take out of that relative to being the premier of New South Wales? Or at least, yeah, or leading your party at least, at a minimum?
5:42 Speaker 01 Yeah, well, it's defined me in ways that I'm only just realising now, that that freedom, but also that resilience you have in country towns where you don't have access to the resources in the big city. And that was particularly pronounced in an era where there was thankfully no iPads and no computer connectivity. You know, a dad running a small business who couldn't take holidays, you know.
6:08 Speaker 01 The resilience of a community, but also the way a community wraps around itself. And mum and dad were always part of community clubs, whether it was Apex or Rotary or the hospital board or whatever it was. We were always defined by a sense of responsibility, you know, to our family members, but also to the community and all of that above service to yourself. And that really.
6:33 Speaker 01 It defined me in many ways and, you know, from a career in the not for profit sector to what I'm doing now. And I see that sense of service is absolutely critical, the spine of everything I do, that we have to make communities stronger and and we have to support people.
6:50 Speaker 00 What do you get out of growing up like that in terms of values that we can identify with?
6:54 Speaker 01 The values that aren't always consistent with being a politician, I have to say.
6:58 Speaker 00 That's probably better.
6:59 Speaker 01 And that is, yeah.
7:02 Speaker 01 Putting others before yourself, always. I never liked, we were taught not to impose ourself upon people, not to ask too much of others, to always just lead by example. And and that is an important value to me that I try and teach my children as well. You get so much joy and so much back if you are always seeking to lift others around yourselves. And so that's an important part of leadership, lifting others. I think it's very true to liberal values, lifting individuals, individual enterprise, you know, small business from a policy area is very aligned with my values and the upbringing in a small business family. I see how tough business does it, but I know if you lift and empower small
7:47 Speaker 01 business, the economy thrives. Spirituality is important to me as well. I I wouldn't say I go to church every weekend, but now I go to a whole range of churches, whether it was the Maronites last weekend, or our Little Holy Cross Catholic Church, or my upbringing as an Anglican, or I go to synagogue a lot because I represent a big Jewish community. And I see a return to that value set more broadly in our community. And I understand it, that seeking to belong somewhere right now, particularly with young people who I think have lost that sense of community and belonging. They don't join the clubs that my parents did when I was growing up. I see a yearning for that, for for leadership that
8:28 Speaker 01 is that is credible and authentic and honest and optimistic.
8:34 Speaker 00 Well, they're right there, authentic and honesty and optimism. There's there's three good values right there.
8:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:41 Speaker 00 And they're actually like, no, you're like virtues. Because we don't talk about those sorts of things anymore. You certainly don't get it on Instagram. It's not discussed in TikTok and other things like that. I mean, you just mentioned a couple of really good ones, particularly for the small business community. But what other things do you think that they're looking for? Like, honestly, the big one.
8:59 Speaker 01 They they are looking for people that can bring us together. Everything divides our young people, you know, they are grown up. They're they're growing up in such a fractured and complicated world where the algorithm on their phones is forcing them to go left or right.
9:18 Speaker 00 Yeah.
9:18 Speaker 01 It's dividing young men and women, pulling them further apart. I I think they object strongly to um that attacking style of politics. The one thing young people tell me so often is they feel like they can trust me. And to me, that is the ultimate. Uh, you know, I want, if I leave this job, you know, or I will leave this job eventually at some point. Um, I I want my integrity intact. I want people to have felt like they trusted me, even if they don't believe in in my policy platform, uh, that they know that it is coming from a place that is good, that is honest. And and that's what I, you know, I I hope that I can I can deliver that to young people.
9:59 Speaker 00 Yeah, that's an interesting point you make, Kelly, about the division, the dividing world we have.
10:06 Speaker 00 Because to some extent, I feel as though politics today is about, um, well, some politics, at least at the federal level. Because I really haven't observed the state level that much, but at the federal level, there's definitely um a drive towards divide and conquer. So, you know, we'll do the polls, we'll find out where the biggest voting cohort is. And let's cleave them off from the rest of the population. Find out what they want relative to the rest of the population or in opposition to the rest of the population. And we'll tell them we're delivering it. I mean, a good example is the budget we just got, the federal budget we just got.
10:47 Speaker 00 And that was so directed at the young people. I mean, and they would have polled, the government would have polled that within an inch of its life. Irrespective of what you and I might think about it and, you know, older people might think about the budget. And what 2GB might say about the budget, and even Channel Nine and Channel Seven, and even the ABC might say about the budget. Those people in that age group, twenty to thirty five, the biggest voting cohort, they don't watch any of those things, they don't agree with any of those things, they say they don't agree with what you think, or what I think, or what Paul Keating thinks.
11:21 Speaker 00 That game of division, what do you think about that? And what do you do about that as a potential new government for New South Wales, led by yourself? What, how do you talk to them?
11:31 Speaker 01 Therein lies the ultimate riddle for a modern day politician.
11:35 Speaker 00 It is the ultimate riddle, isn't it?
11:37 Speaker 01 It is, because I don't believe in black and white. I believe in the grey in the middle, I believe in pulling people together and seeking compromise. And it's, it's what I've done from the moment I've been in this job. The very first thing I did, there was a big dispute over workers' compensation, it had been dragging out, it was blocked in our chamber for, for six months. The first thing I did was sit down and say to the treasurer, how do we work this out? And we came to a compromise. That's how I work.
12:01 Speaker 00 Literally?
12:02 Speaker 01 Yeah, we did.
12:03 Speaker 00 You walked out, sorry, what I mean, you walked out of Mook and you said, let's do a deal.
12:06 Speaker 01 Sat down, rolled up my sleeves, said, let's work this out.
12:09 Speaker 00 Right.
12:10 Speaker 01 Because you and I are not, you're not going to get what you want, I'm not going to get what I want. But I think the best place is, is for us to find some sort of compromise. And we did, and we were thanked, both of us, by the business community for that. And it, it reset a relationship I needed to reset with the business community. That's how I operate. I, I, I was the CEO of a, of a not for profit that was a federated model. So it worked very much like the, the federal and the state system of politics. And my job was to get a whole bunch of people around a table to agree on something that might not be in their best interests. But the job of a leader in politics is to be black and white some days, to show a point of difference and to hammer home that point of difference so people understand.
12:52 Speaker 01 Because people are, let's face it, not going to sit down and read every detail of your policy. So that's the tough part of the job, you know, that I find. And already, uh, state labor is seeking to draw us one way or the other on so many issues. And I'm saying, we, we actually need to have a sensible and credible debate about some of these issues that aren't, don't lie in the black or the white, that lie somewhere in the middle. And it will be my job in the simplest way to remind people of the importance of, you know, considered policy.
13:26 Speaker 01 While also finding a way to get their attention. You get their attention when you say stuff that evokes an emotion. I mean, that's how the algorithms work on social media. They play to, to fear, um, to contempt, to outrage. And that's not how I operate. So I'm hoping that people uh will listen to me because they like me. Because they can see that I'm, I'm coming uh to them with solutions. But also big picture, I object to, to the philosophy of Labour versus Liberal and what that's, how that's playing out in our state.
14:02 Speaker 00 Yesterday, I don't know when this is going to go to air, but Chris Minns got up and said something that I found uh surprising in terms of his timing. He said something about the uh top tax bracket being too high or, or kicking in at too low a salary, one ninety thousand.
14:23 Speaker 00 Which is a bit unusual in terms of timing, given the budget just came out, federal budget just came out. There's also um sort of looks like it falls straight into the federal Liberal Party's um wheelhouse.
14:35 Speaker 00 And it's pretty unusual for a state premier to make a comment on something that sort of goes to the very heart of the federal budget, particularly when it's his party. What did you think about that yesterday?
14:49 Speaker 01 I saw it coming. I knew he would do that.
14:52 Speaker 00 Why, why did he do it at that time?
14:53 Speaker 01 It's highly political. He is trying to distance himself from Albanese.
14:58 Speaker 00 Why? So what would Alba, sorry, what would Alba think about that?
15:01 Speaker 01 So first of all, Minns has an election coming in, in ten months, not a couple of years federally.
15:05 Speaker 00 Twenty eight, isn't it?
15:06 Speaker 01 So yeah, they've got time to repair that relationship. Uh, he's looking squarely at, at the election in March and he knows that Labour's federal budget was bad for our state. I mean, on, on so many levels, we had the guts ripped out of infrastructure in our state.
15:23 Speaker 00 But how to explain that, explain that.
15:25 Speaker 01 So, so compared to every other state, we are billions behind. We're about seven billion behind Queensland, six billion behind Victoria.
15:33 Speaker 00 In terms of grants from the federal.
15:33 Speaker 01 In terms of the grants for infrastructure, roads and, and, and infrastructure that we need in our state. Exactly, why? Same with GST. We're getting the lowest deal on, on GST revenue on record, about eighty two cents in the dollar.
15:47 Speaker 00 When you say the lowest, you mean that that's our lower share or we are getting a lower share in Australia?
15:52 Speaker 01 We're getting the lowest share in Australia, particularly when it
15:55 Speaker 00 Really?
15:55 Speaker 01 As a proportion of population.
15:57 Speaker 00 Well, we raised the most, wouldn't we?
15:59 Speaker 01 We raised the most, we had the highest population and we're being punished because the federal government thinks that we have the ability to to bring in more taxes through land tax as an example. So Minz has been fighting that. So he's he's annoyed with the federal government over GST revenue. He's annoyed with the federal government over us being absolutely doddled on infrastructure revenue as well. When it came to negotiations around the the health agreement earlier in the year, the feds dumped a bucket on us as well and we didn't get what we wanted there. So on every level, Premier Minz has not been able to do a deal for New South Wales that has worked in our favour on his watch. So he is picking a fight with Anthony Albanese, pure and simple on this.
16:42 Speaker 00 Do they do deals? Do they actually do deals?
16:44 Speaker 01 Well, you have to sit at a table with all your other state colleagues and you have to convince the federal government to give you your fair share.
16:51 Speaker 00 Oh, really?
16:51 Speaker 01 Please, sir, can I have some more?
16:53 Speaker 00 Really?
16:53 Speaker 01 Then here are the reasons.
16:54 Speaker 00 That's how it works.
16:54 Speaker 01 That's how it works.
16:55 Speaker 00 But are the reasons normally are the reasons normally though, Kelly, political ones in other words,
17:02 Speaker 00 you need to win New South Wales Labour, Federal Labour, you need to win New South Wales at a labour in a state at state level.
17:11 Speaker 00 Like Perth, for example, West Australia, I should say. And and therefore, if you give us more money, I reckon we can help you win Perth, West Australia. Is that the and?
17:20 Speaker 01 So now I'll give you an example of of why that's not necessarily the case. So two days ago, there were headlines in the paper that Queensland, the Queensland state government, the Liberal government there.
17:29 Speaker 00 Christopher Lee government, yeah.
17:30 Speaker 01 Managed to get $2 billion out of the federal government as a contribution to building more houses in this state.
17:36 Speaker 00 Right.
17:37 Speaker 01 Yet again, there's no interest in in in Albanese supporting a Liberal government, but they came to the government with a proposal, a proposal that made sense and would help achieve housing accord targets. Where was our deal in New South Wales? So we're losing out on every metric and Chris Minz is standing up and now picking a fight with Albanese. I'm not surprised by that. He's trying to distance himself from from federal labour.
18:02 Speaker 00 And what is the reason why New South Wales Labour Party has not been able to prosecute? Their case for a greater share of the GST or at least a fair share of the GST and or a fair share of the grants, because I mean, I just noticed in the federal budget that the feds gave Victoria a huge amount of grants for some rail link, a rail, circular rail thing.
18:27 Speaker 01 Which has been highly controversial in the middle of the city.
18:30 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, totally.
18:31 Speaker 01 But we can't, and particularly in Western Sydney, infrastructure, we suffered. So I, I guess, I, I have felt all along the last few years that this is a government that says all the right thing and talks the talk but can't deliver. And whether it's on our own housing accord targets where we're forty percent behind, you know, whether it's um business, whether it's our economy that's going backwards, they can't do a deal, they can't get the job done, they can't deliver. They're creating bigger government, they've delivered higher wages for the public service, which is what they came in to do. But they've said no to future infrastructure projects. They're opening all of the metros that rail and, and hospitals that were developed, built and funded under the former coalition government.
19:15 Speaker 01 But they've said there will be no more metros under future Labour governments. No, no vision, bigger government, greater union influence. It's, it's Labour DNA through and through, in my opinion. And so, of course, while there's a great amount of scrutiny on, on the lack of investment and the poor deal we're getting in New South Wales, you have a premier who stands up and picks a fight with Canberra. You know, it's in his interest to do that.
19:39 Speaker 00 Wouldn't he get punished more for that? I mean, if I'm.
19:42 Speaker 01 But what's Albo gonna do? Pick up the phone and say, you know, what, what's the worst that's gonna happen to him? He's got a job to do, which is to win the next election. And it was an entirely politically motivated, well thought out strategy. And, you know, I, I could see it coming and I, I don't blame him for doing it. I mean, he's agreed with Angus Taylor and so, you know.
20:01 Speaker 00 That's a big deal.
20:02 Speaker 01 Full marks, I agree with Angus Taylor too on this. But it is, it is unusual to see Minst do that because at every other turn, he has, um, yeah, he is, he is. Really not picked up the phone to Canberra that we could see, or whether it's, you know, local mayors that he needs to pick up the phone to, he hasn't done that either. So it's a change of strategy.
20:24 Speaker 00 In New South Wales, what you mentioned is economically is going backwards. And we probably were the leading state for most of the last hundred years. As in terms of Australia, probably largely due to our size, but also resources, et cetera. Like, we have a lot of resources, but we don't seem to be mining much. Nothing new, particularly in relation to gas.
20:49 Speaker 00 What is the Liberal positioning in regards to those, those sort of resource sectors in New South Wales?
20:55 Speaker 01 Well, we want to see more gas in New South Wales. That's going to be absolutely essential. The former coalition government wanted to see Narabri fast-tracked as an example.
21:06 Speaker 01 So gas is going to be essential. When it comes to mineral exploration, we're going to have to continue to do that as well. I note that state labor has recently said there'll be no new coal in New South Wales, but they will expand existing licenses. That was interesting. It was backed by the Minerals Council. I, I, I think we are a resource-rich state and, you know, at the moment, we're an importer of gas. I think that's problematic. The, the New South Wales Liberals and Nationals have been looking at a fuel resilience strategy, which would look at some of the biofuels and things that are, that we have the opportunity to start being manufacturers in this state. We need to reserve more fuel. We've seen that recently with the fuel crisis.
21:51 Speaker 01 So these are areas that we're, we're looking at and getting feedback, whether it's from the chief scientist in our state, or whether it's industry leaders, to find out what we need to be doing and the policies we need to develop to support that.
22:05 Speaker 00 It's interesting, your earlier career, I thought politics was in journalism. What like superpowers does Kellie Sloane bring to? Politics, not not being the leader of the state, but just politics generally that she gets, that she could look back to her journalistic career that probably nailed it for her.
22:26 Speaker 01 I would say it's my ability.
22:28 Speaker 00 Skills, I'm talking about.
22:29 Speaker 01 To triage large amounts of information very quickly. So as a journalist, you go into a budget lockup with a pile of papers this high and you have to find the story in there. It also has given me the ability to read people, understand people and empathise with them. You end up, you know, in situations with everyday Australians at times of crisis, whether it's bushfires or floods or terrorism, or whether it's ordinary people with neighbourhood disputes, or whether it's addressing people with illness and they bring you into their lives. And the stories that you produce, you're marked on your ability to read people every day of the week, and that's called the ratings.
23:11 Speaker 01 So after almost 20 years in journalism, I developed a gut instinct for how people feel, how they react, what they want you to say, what pisses them off, particularly about politicians. And that is probably the superpower that I bring into this job, that we can sit around a table and I have plenty of colleagues who are lawyers and they can talk about the detail, but I'll say, Mark Boris would say X, or Joe Blow in, you know, Betty from Blacktown would say Y. And ultimately, our job is to serve them.
23:43 Speaker 00 Yeah, so you can sort of grab hold of the thoughts and then turn that into words and then actually prosecute it.
23:53 Speaker 01 I think having a finger on the pulse of what the community expects of you is really important. And then, you know, I consolidated that with post journalism. I spent almost a decade in the not-for-profit space. I ran a big business. I employed people. I employed 70 teachers. I got to go to schools and communities across the state and hear from them without a camera, without, you know, the lights of television, and to find out what they really think, what they care about, what their values are for their families, for their kids. And they were pretty consistent themes. They want their kids to be happy, they want them to be healthy, and they want them to have opportunity.
24:30 Speaker 00 Do you see a change, Kelly, in politics? I mean, we're seeing it at the federal level. Do you think there's a sense of we're over career politicians and we want to see people that come out from the real world?
24:39 Speaker 01 I think the number one value that people rate is authenticity. They're after authenticity. And I think part of that too is young people, um, they hate what AI is doing to their lives. They see the manufactured content in their social media feeds. They want people they can trust, who will be a bit real, which means when we do our videos as politicians, they shouldn't be too polished either. They reward through likes and follows and engagement politicians globally. Who tell their stories and who are a bit more grassroots, um, who aren't afraid to make mistakes. And that's really hard because if you make a mistake as a politician, you get punished for that.
25:24 Speaker 01 And it comes back to you over and even if it's just a misstep or you, you're a bit real, it gets taken out of context. So I can understand why people have been in this game a long time. A very closed up, you know, repeat their tried and tested talking points. And are worried to go outside of the frame. But people these days reward, uh, you know, honesty, truthfulness. People who are willing to sort of shake the shine off a little bit.
25:53 Speaker 00 Yeah, well, like if you look at Pauline, I mean, it seems to me that she gets rewarded because A she's been there. She's been consistent. She hasn't really changed her tune. Um. After all, she was a fish and chip shop owner, so she understands what, you know, hard work means. She's definitely not polished. Um, you know, I know Pauline, she's got it's on her chest and she'll say it. And it seems like the, the electorate is willing to forgive people if they're like that. Like Pauline's done some things which, you know, like 25 years ago, you would never get away with today.
26:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
26:29 Speaker 00 What do you do for that in terms of your own personal wheelhouse? Like, how do you manage that if, um, you're, you're a professional? You have been a professional your life.
26:41 Speaker 00 What do you do there? Like, how do you play that game?
26:44 Speaker 01 Well, I'm just not gonna play any games. I'm not gonna change me. I'm not a career politician. I'm, I'm here to get in here and get things done. I, I do not look at the polling. I don't look at the comments. I don't wanna change. I can't change. If I do change, it's not gonna feel real and people see through you.
27:02 Speaker 00 Especially today.
27:03 Speaker 01 People see through you. They can see the bullshit, right? They can see the bullshit. Like, John Howard put it more eloquently than that. He said that the public has an ability to read you. They'll find you out. They'll know what you stand for. Um, so I'm, I'm not here to change. Uh, what you, what you see and what you hear from me is what you're gonna continue to get. And it, it may not be, um, the examples you've cited. It may not be like Pauline. Um, certainly not gonna be Pauline, but I respect the fact that people are listening to her. And I, I feel like it's.
27:36 Speaker 00 Well, there's a lesson in that.
27:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, there is. See, the things have changed since she started. Back then, we were a more prosperous country. We had an opportunity to be rewarded for hard, hard effort and work. If you worked a couple of jobs and you build up your savings, you were rewarded for that. You could buy a house.
27:58 Speaker 00 Buy a house.
27:59 Speaker 01 You know, when I, when I bought my first unit in the late nineties, it was about three times the average annual salary. You know these figures better than anyone. Now it's about 11 times. A young Kelly, this day, would not be able to do what I did. And so people feel that that promise has been broken. So they don't care about what Pauline has said in the past. I mean, I had a dinner as an example this week, uh, with senior figures in the Chinese community. And the, the issue of One Nation came up and I said, what are your communities telling you? And they said that they like Pauline.
28:31 Speaker 00 Oh, really?
28:31 Speaker 01 And I was shocked.
28:32 Speaker 00 One Nation?
28:33 Speaker 01 They said many of them were open to voting for, for Pauline Hanson on One Nation. And I said, but don't you remember what she said about your communities? And they said, yeah, they, they remember it, but the.
28:46 Speaker 01 The fact is, they understand that, but they agree with her on things like immigration. Like, they're here, when they arrived, they had an opportunity to work hard and contribute to our country and could see a better future for their kids. And these days, that promise has been broken. For their kids to work just as hard, they won't have the same opportunity for the next generation. And that is the broken promise in our country right now. That Angus Taylor is identifying as well, that Pauline has done for a long time. And if we don't listen to that, if we're not listening to that message, it's incredibly foolish.
29:26 Speaker 00 Well, that's interesting you should say that because I recently saw
29:30 Speaker 00 Albo dismissing, I think it was a small business community, or at least a startup community, who were putting up, actually sort of semi funny memes of Albo becoming their partner when they sell their business. And I'm interested to know how you would handle this. So, or what you would observe from that. When people are unhappy with something, how do you think you should address them? As opposed, potentially as opposed to the way Prime Minister addressed them recently?
30:02 Speaker 01 You've just got to show up. Showing up is the most important thing in this job. You know, there was a situation with a big hospital, in Northern Beaches Hospital, a lot of community anger about, you know, perceived failures there. There was a huge public forum. And I was Shadow Health Minister at that time and I turned up. And as a result, I had, you know, applause from the people in the room. I had a number of emails from people saying, thank you for turning up and for listening to us. And, you know, my experience in this job is you get a lot of angry emails. And the first thing I do-
30:37 Speaker 00 Is that right?
30:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, by and large, I have to say, the majority are great, but you do get angry emails. When I get them, I pick up the phone. People are really surprised to hear from you and they soften immediately. And they'll often say, well, I disagree with the position, but I'm so grateful that you rang and thank you. And I'll, you know, tell my friends that you called me. And so, showing up, listening-
31:02 Speaker 01 I mean, for Albo to make it about his picture and how he looked shows a bit of vanity and a bit of disconnect, I think.
31:08 Speaker 00 Well, definitely disconnect.
31:09 Speaker 01 I think the other thing is true.
31:11 Speaker 00 I don't know how he's got any vanity.
31:13 Speaker 01 Well, he's talking about his photo.
31:15 Speaker 00 Sorry, but it is disconnect for sure.
31:20 Speaker 01 I think they're telling you something and the people always get it right.
31:23 Speaker 00 Yeah.
31:23 Speaker 01 And even if you think, okay, they're not across the detail because of X, Y and Z, then it's your job as the communicator to fix that, not theirs.
31:33 Speaker 00 You showed that during the Bondi terrorist attack.
31:40 Speaker 00 Yeah, admittedly it is in your area, but it doesn't really matter. I mean, you got there ahead of the feds. I think, actually, you went down there on the night. You were attending something.
31:50 Speaker 01 I was there as, I arrived as the last shots were being fired. I ran in, I was there before the ambulances arrived. It's, um.
31:58 Speaker 00 How did you know about, were you nearby or?
32:02 Speaker 01 I was at a Hanukkah event in the neighboring suburb.
32:06 Speaker 00 Wow.
32:06 Speaker 01 Of Dover Heights, not very far at all from the Bondi shooting. I was on stage, I was about to deliver a speech, a speech that was going to be about hope that there'd been a ceasefire in the Middle East. It was a sunny day, beautiful day, talking about the year ahead because Hanukkah is about light over darkness. I was standing on stage when the crowd started running, running towards the stage. And I looked out, I remember looking out and thinking, I can't see a gun, I can't see a knife, I can't see danger. So I jumped off the stage and reassured people and I said, you stay here. And there were kids and they were clearly worried and the communities had been on tender hooks for a long time. And so I just wanted them to feel reassured. I said, sure, it's all fine.
32:51 Speaker 01 And I casually walked towards where the perceived danger was, just to show everyone was okay, I would go and I'd find out. And a security guy grabbed me and said, ma'am, there's a live shooting. You're a potential target as a member of parliament. You need to get to safety. And and the only I hadn't, I had walked to that event from about five blocks away. So I had no way of getting to safety. So the first thing I jumped into the closest car, which was a, an ambulance, a Hatzola ambulance, which is a local Jewish community ambulance. And the driver was on the two way radio to his mate Yankee who'd been shot.
33:34 Speaker 01 Um, and he said, Kelly, I'm, I'm heading to, there's a shooting, there's a live shooting. I'm heading there. You can get out of the car. And I said, no, I'm coming with you. So we, we sped down to Bondi and we arrived as the final shots were being fired and um.
33:53 Speaker 01 And we, as we drove into Bondi, just, you know.
33:59 Speaker 00 What was the scene like? I mean, what, I mean, like.
34:03 Speaker 01 We came into that park.
34:05 Speaker 00 Yep, that was behind the surf club or behind the, the building.
34:09 Speaker 01 There's a, we, we were on the, the, the road leading to the bridge, the now infamous bridge. And we were looking at the car window and we were passing body after body. Groups of people clustered around people.
34:26 Speaker 01 Unimaginable scenes. And it was then we realised the full extent. You know, it was a mass casualty event. And we headed to the bridge because that's where we thought uh, the driver's friend was, not knowing the gunman were on the bridge. We parked under the bridge. There was a man and, and his little boy hiding under the bridge.
34:49 Speaker 00 Oh, so the gunman was still.
34:50 Speaker 01 They were still on the bridge, but they were wrestling with the police as we parked there.
34:54 Speaker 00 Right.
34:56 Speaker 01 I yelled out the window of the ambulance to this man, get in the ambulance, get in here to safety.
35:01 Speaker 00 With his kid.
35:02 Speaker 01 With his kid, because he had his kid covered up. They were hiding under there. And he said, is it safe? And I said, I don't know. I jumped out. I did a recce. I said, I can't see any danger. And I grabbed them and pulled them into the car. And then I ran in.
35:17 Speaker 00 You ran into?
35:18 Speaker 01 Into the park.
35:20 Speaker 00 Wow.
35:20 Speaker 01 And people were screaming and the police were saying, the police were arriving, guns drawn as I'm running in, there's police running in with guns. There was a loud bang. I remember thinking that was another gunshot. It possibly was because we'll learn about that in the, in the follow up investigation. But I, I ran, I ran in and
35:43 Speaker 01 and there were, you know, there were just bodies everywhere. It was like, it was like a, a scene out of a movie.
35:49 Speaker 00 It was a bit surreal for you?
35:50 Speaker 01 It was completely surreal. I.
35:53 Speaker 00 Did you think to yourself, what the hell? Like?
35:56 Speaker 01 I thought I would probably get shot.
35:59 Speaker 00 Wow.
35:59 Speaker 01 And I thought, I, but I can't turn back.
36:02 Speaker 00 Because at that stage when there's two or 10 shooters, you don't know that.
36:05 Speaker 01 We had no idea. The, the cops were yelling at me, there's another shooter, get out of here. And I, I ignored them and, and kept going.
36:16 Speaker 01 There were people coming out of the surf club. One guy had a big tray of bandages and, and I just said, give me a job. And he said, literally said, plug the holes. He said, grabs some bandages, plug the holes, apply compression.
36:31 Speaker 01 And that's what I, I did. I went in and the first lady I saw, she was lying on the ground and she had people on her applying compression, but she was, no one was holding her hand. She was just looking up into the sky and so I held her hand and I told her I was with her.
36:50 Speaker 01 Said, my name's Kelly. I'm with you. I'm not leaving you. I looked into her. She looked, she looked at me and she knew I was there.
36:57 Speaker 00 And did she survive? She didn't make it?
37:01 Speaker 01 No.
37:02 Speaker 00 How does it affect you? Does it stop you from, did you ever think to yourself, ah, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm not going to become politician. This is all bullshit. I'm gonna.
37:11 Speaker 01 Oh, look, it was, I, I had to keep doing my job. I mean, I was with her and then I was with the next person. I mean, I, I sat with a lady who was in deep shock and she was just looking into the distance. I, I just, older lady. I just took her hand. I said, are you okay? Who are you here with? And she said, that's my husband. He's lying dead on the ground in front of us. Like her eighty seven year old husband.
37:36 Speaker 00 Hmm.
37:36 Speaker 01 Who had escaped the Holocaust, come to Australia and got shot dead on Bondi Beach.
37:43 Speaker 00 Oh man, this is crazy to think about.
37:44 Speaker 01 I was covering up dead bodies. I was supporting, I was working with first responders, like so many other people that day, but you can't.
37:55 Speaker 01 I then had to switch into leader mode in the middle of that massacre and take briefings from the government. Let the media know to stay clear of the area because it was still unsafe. I had to go out and face the cameras. I.
38:10 Speaker 01 I then had to support my community. And I didn't even contemplate, you know, walking away from that, even though it's been the toughest thing and it, and it still is. It was five months ago and I have to say it's probably. Tougher now than it was back then.
38:26 Speaker 00 Yeah, because you're, you're dealing with the aftershock. It's, it's interesting what you just said. The Jewish community, you know, from my observations of the people that I know come from that community. Not just here in Sydney, but other places around Australia have been.
38:45 Speaker 00 Amazing in terms of assimilation.
38:47 Speaker 01 Hmm.
38:49 Speaker 00 Um. But at the same time, you know, they respect their traditions and their religion, but their assimilation.
38:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
38:54 Speaker 00 Has been amazing. They don't walk around saying, uh, when they go to the footy, uh, I'm Jewish, they're there because they're going to the footy. And that's their team playing the footy or, uh, and, and most other communities are the same. What do you think about people, politicians, when they say, you know, assimilation, I don't believe, you know, this community should be, has to be, should have to assimilate into Australia. But they should be able to maintain their position in whatever country they come from and, uh, stick to their own community and not assimilate for the rest of the country. What do you think about that? And you know the politician I'm talking about, Tony Burke. He said that. He's not a, he's not a fan of assimilation.
39:39 Speaker 01 Well, you have, you have to like, that doesn't mean you have to give up your culture and
39:44 Speaker 00 No.
39:44 Speaker 01 food and your faith. Like, that's fantastic. I, I love the fact that we have that breadth of cultures and faiths in, in our city. But there has to be something that ties us all together. And that is our love for this country, our determination to work hard for it, uh, and our ability to make friends across the divide. Um, and I, I, that has been the story of our country. Uh, so if people are coming here and they are not doing that, then why have you come here? Like, why are you here? You can't come to this country and try to change us. You can, um, help us learn. You can help us enjoy, you know, your food and your culture.
40:29 Speaker 00 Sure. And rather than that, so go and enjoy it and then
40:32 Speaker 01 Fabulous.
40:32 Speaker 00 be part of it.
40:33 Speaker 01 That's what our country is all about.
40:35 Speaker 00 Yeah.
40:36 Speaker 01 If you're coming here and you're putting up the proverbial middle finger to our country and you're trying to change our system of law, or you're not wanting to try, then see you later.
40:46 Speaker 00 Well, Kody, that brings me back to the game of division, though.
40:49 Speaker 01 Hmm. Um, I don't think that's divisive.
40:51 Speaker 00 No, no, no.
40:52 Speaker 01 I think that's all about inclusive.
40:53 Speaker 00 I, you know, I, what you say is, is inclusive.
40:55 Speaker 01 Hmm.
40:56 Speaker 00 Um, assimilation is inclusive.
40:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:58 Speaker 00 But I'm saying that when you say to someone, a cohort of people, uh, if you're a senior politician, that you, I don't believe in assimilation, that's, creates division by nationality or by religion or by culture. It's a bit like what I was saying earlier on about saying, uh, when the budget comes out and the, the, a government says, the older generation has stolen from the younger generation.
41:26 Speaker 01 Hmm.
41:26 Speaker 00 That's, that's politics of division. Do, does your party stand for that type of politics or another type of politics? Where do you sit?
41:37 Speaker 01 Well, well, obviously in, inclusiveness, but I don't think it's divisive to call out the obvious. And I think it is obvious that this younger generation is being robbed of opportunity. And it is our job to call it out and be quite clear about that.
41:51 Speaker 00 But should you punish one generation against the other?
41:55 Speaker 00 Like, should we punish the older generation like a
41:58 Speaker 01 No, see, it's not that. I don't think it's the older generation's fault. I think it's the government's fault.
42:03 Speaker 00 Totally.
42:04 Speaker 01 So, and we can call that out clearly as well. But it is.
42:10 Speaker 00 Do you think they should say, we got it wrong? We, the government, got it wrong and we're gonna try and fix it for you, younger generation. We got it wrong.
42:18 Speaker 01 Yeah, we've let you down.
42:19 Speaker 00 Yeah.
42:19 Speaker 01 We've let down the younger generation who are hardworking, decent, fantastic young people. You know, they are, this young generation is, they smoke less than us, than we used to at their age and drink less.
42:34 Speaker 00 Totally.
42:34 Speaker 01 They actually take fewer drugs. They're committed to social service. They do it in different ways than us, but they are empathetic. And they want opportunity.
42:44 Speaker 00 They care about each other, too.
42:45 Speaker 01 And they care about each other. And we are letting them down. And that, they have ideas and they're innovative and we need them if we're gonna be a successful, smart entrepreneurial country. And this is where I believe that we have, have taxed opportunity through this budget. And that's why I think it is bad.
43:03 Speaker 00 Do you think New South Wales has an advantage over other places in Australia or anywhere else in the world, for that matter, to encourage these young people to set up here and stay here and work here and build here? As opposed to say, say, later I'm off to Singapore, I'm gonna go to New Zealand where it's zero capital gains tax. Or I'm gonna go to San Francisco where it's only fifteen percent. Do you think New South Wales, you know, under your leadership, could do it?
43:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, I, look, I, I wanna return New South Wales to being the premier state, a place that attracts investment, but also attracts ideas that we don't have our young people saying, it's too hard, there's too much compliance, we're, we're shutting up shop. I mean, we're seeing the viability of innovative startup hubs like Fishburners collapsing under this current Labour government. We're seeing grants cut. We should be investing in this area. We need to be harnessing A I for productivity, especially in the, in the public service. When I say productivity, making people's jobs easier and more enjoyable, not cutting jobs, reinvesting that dividend into our frontline workers.
44:14 Speaker 01 I spoke to our police officers this week at their big conference. You know, they, they spend so much time on paperwork. There are ways we can simplify that so quickly. They become Uber drivers for correction services. They sit at their desk. They come in on their days off to do their paperwork. In this day and age, that shouldn't be necessary. You know, there are so many things we can do to drive greater productivity in our state. And a lot of them aren't tough. But at the moment, we are sending people offshore. We are not giving young people a reason to be here. And and we have to change that.
44:47 Speaker 00 And and how is the Liberal Party in New South Wales' relationship with the Nats going in terms of a coalition?
44:56 Speaker 01 Yeah, great.
44:57 Speaker 00 Because we are looking at a federal level. And like, everyone's attacking each other. But how how are you guys going?
45:04 Speaker 01 I love the Nats. We've got a great leader in Gomes Singh in our state, have great relationships. We we have all team meetings when we have Parliament on, their staff mixes with ours. We we have genuine interest in supporting each other and and coming up with policies that are aligned. So, um, yeah, and and, you know, they, I love going out into our regional communities. You know, last Easter, I went out right way out back past Ningan and and saw a lot of the issues that they're facing. You know, with pest control, with the drought.
45:42 Speaker 01 Um, and and and came back, you know, and talked to the Nats about what we can do about these issues as well. So, you know, I I think city, people in the city, there's this perception that there's a divide. I feel like even city dwellers in our country just understand how valuable it is to support our regional communities. The people that feed us, put food on our plates, dig up the minerals. I have those challenges that are, you know, that really outweigh many of the challenges we have in the city. And as a country girl, that's very authentic.
46:15 Speaker 00 And none of us, by the way, would would be able to do it, what they do. None of us here in the city, in the metro areas, are are prepared to go and do what they do.
46:23 Speaker 01 Yeah, they're the true Australians.
46:24 Speaker 00 They're unbelievable.
46:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:26 Speaker 00 Kelly, the election's in twenty twenty eight, I think.
46:30 Speaker 01 It's in twenty twenty seven, so we're about ten months away.
46:32 Speaker 00 Ten months away.
46:33 Speaker 01 Um.
46:33 Speaker 00 What's behind you? Have you got enough bench, uh, bench strength sitting behind you to bring this forward and to get this done?
46:41 Speaker 01 Enormous bench strength. What people forget in New South Wales is it's a minority Labor government. Uh, if we hold on to all of our seats at the next election, we just need to flip six to win. That's how close it is. And so in my team, I've got this mix of former government ministers, um, you know, years and years and years multiplied of, of government experience. But also a lot of young people, got ten millennials, got three women, uh, having one just gave birth recently, another two very shortly. We've got people living the lives of the constituents that they're, um, representing. So the diversity is great, almost a gender split that's almost half, half in New South Wales as well.
47:21 Speaker 01 Like, we're match fit, we're ready to get back into government, but the challenge is going to be to tell people why and why they need to return their vote to us. And it's, the challenge is huge. I don't underestimate it. It's going to be massive. Um, but I just have to keep running hard.
47:37 Speaker 00 And at what point, I mean, you're, you're a young woman, but it's, it's.
47:42 Speaker 01 Thank you for that.
47:43 Speaker 00 Well, you are relatively speaking.
47:45 Speaker 01 I feel very old some days.
47:46 Speaker 00 But it's, it does take energy and you've got your own family. Um. Do you ever feel, oh my God, like this is exhausting?
47:56 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
47:56 Speaker 00 And what do you do? What does Kelly Sloane then do to get yourself back up on the horse? What do you do?
48:02 Speaker 01 Oh, last night as an example, I just went for a really long walk with the dog.
48:06 Speaker 00 Yeah.
48:06 Speaker 01 That heals all sorts of stuff. And, um, and finding moments of silence, I need that because there's a lot of noise, a lot of people talking at you, with you. A lot of things to canvass and that's again where that journalism career helps me juggling lots of balls, triaging what's important. But you find an energy that you didn't think you had. Like, I jump out of bed and I'm full of beans. I've got a lot of energy. And it's a taxing job, but you, you get the energy from the people you see. And people are looking for a reason. They're looking for hope. They're looking for opportunity. They want a strong opposition. Even the Labour voters want a strong opposition, most of them.
48:50 Speaker 01 And it's my, my job to find that energy and, and to fight hard.
48:54 Speaker 00 I- in opposition.
48:56 Speaker 01 Hmm.
48:56 Speaker 00 Yeah, but you've got the big campaign coming up soon.
48:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
48:59 Speaker 00 And that's going to be full on. Uh, I mean, how long does a campaign go for? Like, is it six months, three months?
49:07 Speaker 01 Technically about three months.
49:08 Speaker 00 Three months.
49:09 Speaker 01 So, so after the January long weekend, the Australia Day long weekend, it's game on.
49:14 Speaker 00 Right.
49:14 Speaker 01 And we go hard. Uh, the technical period of campaigning, I think, is about three months. But the campaign, you know, has already started for me. You know, we, we need to work every day like we're in campaign mode. Um, and start building up our, our war chest of policies and ideas, figuring out how we're going to sell them. How people learn about me. A lot of people don't know me yet. It's my job to get out there and say hi. And, and then, and bring the team with me because I've got an impressive, incredibly impressive team.
49:48 Speaker 00 Do you think it's going to be, we're going to be, um, in New South Wales in the next election, more presidential style election? In other words, we're, we're going to vote for the party, for the leader of the party that we know. You know, like as opposed to, I'm going to vote for my local member, in my case it's you anyway. But like, if I'm outside of your area, um, because I really like Kelly Sloan, therefore I'm going to, I don't even know my local member, but I'm going to vote for that Liberal Party member because I like Kelly Sloan. Do, do you think we're going to have one of those sorts of state elections?
50:17 Speaker 01 Well, I, I think.
50:18 Speaker 00 Sloan versus Minns.
50:20 Speaker 01 There, there'll be a bit of that.
50:21 Speaker 00 Yep.
50:21 Speaker 01 Um, for sure. And I think Minns already by standing up and distancing himself from Albo has really flagged what their strategy is. It'll be Minns and maybe a little small Labour logo in the corner. They will talk more about him as the presidential style campaign, uh, rather than attaching themselves to Labour. I will be seeking to promote my team in everything I do. You know, I can, he's Mr. Nice Guy, I can be Mr. Nice Girl. That's, you know, that's a neutralizing factor maybe, I hope, but, but.
50:53 Speaker 00 That might not unseal.
50:54 Speaker 01 Policies. People, people value, first thing, they value their local member. And if they have a hardworking local member, that will override pretty much everything else, particularly in our regional and outer metropolitan seats. People want ideas and they want hope and they want vision. And that's where I think we'll be successful in the lead up to this next election campaign.
51:16 Speaker 00 Well, Kelly, good luck. I'm going to be watching this with a great deal of, um, not only enthusiasm but interest. And, um, and if you want to come back on closer to when the election period's starting, obviously I'll offer the same demands, but we won't do a one on one debate, but maybe we can get them in close proximity, a bit like I did for the federal election. I had, Peter, Peter Dutton on and I also had Albanese on, but we'd love to do that in 2027.
51:42 Speaker 01 I really enjoyed the chat.
51:43 Speaker 00 Good luck to you, Kelly.
51:44 Speaker 01 Thanks.
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