The Science of Star Trek

The Star Trek TV and movie series imagine a bright future for humans in space, one in which we explore alien worlds with the aid of advanced technology. Because the writers tried to include as much realistic science as possible within the fictional framework, the stories have been an inspiration for students, scientists, inventors; and anyone interested in pondering our destiny on Earth and beyond. In this show, Brandon Fibbs reviews the latest Star Trek movie now in theaters, and Lawrence Krauss talks about how Star Trek uses science to explore what is possible in our universe. NOTE: All-Access subscribers can listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/science-star-trek/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:20Speaker 00

  Our universe is filled with secrets and mysteries, leaving us with many questions to be answered.

• 0:33Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we find ourselves searching for those answers as the very fabric of space, science, and society are converging.

• 0:44Speaker 00

  Here, for the first time, these worlds collide. As we give you the knowledge that breaks the barrier between what is science and what is merely pop culture. This, this is StarTalk. Now, here's your hosts, astrophysicist Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson and comedian Lynn Koplitz. StarTalk.

• 1:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome to StarTalk.

• 1:14Speaker 02

  Hello.

• 1:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I am your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson, astrophysicist, joined by Lynn Koplitz, my favorite co-host ever.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  I'm your only co-host ever. Thanks, Dr. Neil.

• 1:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I remind you, she's a comedian. Lynn, Lynn, this is our fourth show.

• 1:31Speaker 02

  I know, it's very exciting.

• 1:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's fun.

• 1:34Speaker 02

  I love this show, Neil.

• 1:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  How's it going for you so far?

• 1:37Speaker 02

  It's fun, but you know, I was hit with an amazing epiphany the other day. I was on the subway.

• 1:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Aren't all epiphanies amazing?

• 1:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, they really are.

• 1:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Otherwise, you wouldn't call them that.

• 1:45Speaker 02

  First of all, I'm really proud of myself for using my big SAT word right there. And Neil just immediately shoots it down like, "Aren't all epiphanies amazing?" Yes. But anyway.

• 1:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No one ever says I had a boring epiphany the other day.

• 1:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I had this weird epiphany. No, I was thinking about the fact that it really is a huge thing, like blessing, exciting thing, whatever, for me to be able to sit and talk to you every day. Like, I don't know if I've been appreciating it, because all of a sudden it hit me. There aren't a lot of astrophysicists. Like, how many people? Well, you take things for granted sometimes, like the fact that I get to talk to an astrophysicist once a week and now have one as a friend.

• 2:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I talk to myself all the time, so yes, I take it for granted.

• 2:22Speaker 02

  I know, and, and, and your wife is like, "Yeah, big deal." But one saying, there's one in a mil- well, you told me, what, what was the statistic? There's one in a million astrophysicists?

• 2:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Six, you do the math, right? It's 6,000 astrophysicists in the world and about 6 billion people. You divide those two numbers and astrophysic-

• 2:38Speaker 02

  What's the number?

• 2:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Is one in a million.

• 2:40Speaker 02

  One in a million?

• 2:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If you do the math, yes.

• 2:42Speaker 02

  And you, and you can't just have like, like, I have two deg- I have one degree and then my fallback master's degree.

• 2:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You have a master's degree, I didn't know that.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  Oh, thanks for saying that, like, you're so surprised, like, really? They give those out at DeVry? Um, yes, I have a master's degree, but you have like 20 degrees or something, don't you?

• 2:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I have one PhD and then there's like nine honorary doctorates.

• 3:02Speaker 02

  Ahahaha.

• 3:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You get those, you get those for doing other stuff, so they're not, they're not-

• 3:06Speaker 02

  No, Neil, you're being, you get them for being really smart. And you don't just give an honorary, they give you honorary degree. I mean, I get honorary degrees in like drinking. You don't get an honorary, you get an honorary degree and whatever, you get it in because they decide you're so smart.

• 3:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I, all I-

• 3:20Speaker 02

  We just assume-

• 3:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All I know is that I didn't achieve anything special to win any of those honorary degrees, but I did work hard for the one PhD I have, that's all.

• 3:28Speaker 02

  The one PhD.

• 3:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Not that complicated.

• 3:30Speaker 02

  How many books, how many books have you written?

• 3:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Nine books.

• 3:32Speaker 02

  Ahahaha. Oh, my gosh, I can barely keep a journal.

• 3:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Actually, my ninth book was actually on Pluto, it being the demoted ninth planet. Very few people know that.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  You were on, it was on Pluto, it was a hit on Pluto. It was huge, people, they love me on Pluto.

• 3:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Don't know what the sales are on Pluto just yet.

• 3:48Speaker 02

  If I, and you know what? I was actually thinking about this. So, my point is that it's very nice to be able to sit and talk to you, and this is a show that tells people at home that they can, they can talk to you too, like, it's kinda neat.

• 3:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And Lynn, you do make me laugh.

• 4:00Speaker 02

  Thank you, Neil, that's my job, that's my job. Put the nose and the shoes back on, clown dance. Um, but, but what I was gonna say to you, that I, I was thinking about this and I was thinking that I would also, if I were rich, I would probably want my own personal genius to walk around with me, and so it's kinda cool that I get you for free.

• 4:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You mean I might have been able to get paid for this?

• 4:22Speaker 02

  Yes, but it ticks me up because I was thinking, oh my gosh, now that I know Neil, I could actually go on Who Wants to be a Millionaire?

• 4:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, Kings used to have like court jesters and court astrologers and they used to have folks that would just help them out and make their decisions for them.

• 4:34Speaker 02

  The two of us could have met on a whole nother, another lifetime is what you're saying. I would be the court jester and you would be the court astrologer.

• 4:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There you go, there you go. That was before the era of physics though, you know, when they just looked up at the sky and believed that the cosmos somehow influenced the life that you did not know you could control yourself.

• 4:52Speaker 02

  All right, Neely, well now that we're friends and I can ask you things and call you Neely, um, I have to ask you a question.

• 4:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's Dr. Neely.

• 4:59Speaker 02

  Dr. Neely, Dr. Neely, Dr. Neely de Grasse Tyson. What is physics exactly? I mean, I can ask you, because the producers are now mortified, but I, I mean, I was thinking, I hear anatomy and physiology, I hear physiology, what exactly is physics?

• 5:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This is our fourth show and you don't know what physics is yet.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  I know what it is, but I can ask you without you making me feel stupid, I thought.

• 5:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, okay. No, physics is the study of matter, motion and energy and their interplay in the past, present and future of the universe.

• 5:31Speaker 02

  See, that's what I like about having your personal genius. I don't have to look it up. I could have just Googled it, but it was much more easier to just, it was much easier to just wait and ask.

• 5:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And it's said that there's the laws of physics in the world and everything else is opinion, because all foundations of what we know in the universe, in the physical, in the, in the natural world, ultimately get you to physical laws.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  Has to do with matter, motion or energy.

• 5:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's right. Biology is based on chemistry, chemistry is based on physics, physics is the universe. That's how that works.

• 6:02Speaker 02

  So astro...

• 6:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Astrophysics, thank you. Astrophysics takes the laws of physics and applies them to cosmic objects, so we can understand how the whole universe works, not just Earth.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  Oh, that's interesting.

• 6:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, well, that's, that's how we do it.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  You're very interesting, Dr. Neely.

• 6:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So today's subject is Star Trek. There's still, the movie is still out, the Star Trek movie, the origin of the whole Star Trek series.

• 6:24Speaker 02

  I haven't seen it yet.

• 6:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You haven't seen it yet?

• 6:27Speaker 02

  You just said that like such a Trekkie. You just got so freaked out that I haven't seen the movie. You haven't seen it yet?

• 6:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Let's see what our friend, Bill Nye the Science Guy, has to say in his manic minute. Go for it.

• 6:40Speaker 03

  Hey, hey, Bill Nye the Science Guy here. Like any good science fiction, Star Trek was predictive. Sure enough, we now have flip phones and hot chicken soup in just a few seconds. But Star Trek's real message isn't about technology or traveling to other star systems faster than light. Star Trek stories are human stories. There's war, and disease, love, hate, passion, and hardest of all, indifference. And through all that, unlike much of science fiction, we're not headed for an apocalypse. No, according to Star Trek, we should be wonderfully optimistic about the future. Humans will be thriving 300 years hence. And for the first time on television, we had diversity. People of East Asian, Eurasian, and recent African descent, all working together, taking

• 7:24Speaker 03

  risks, and making astonishing discoveries. Star Trek will boldly go where no one has gone before. According to this premise, the future is bright. This is Bill Nye the Science Guy, and I say, "Be me aboard."

• 7:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Thank you, Bill Nye. You are listening to StarTalk, StarTalk Radio. I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson. If you have a comment, an opinion, or just want to vent on something cosmic that's been bugging you, you can, in fact, tweet us at @StarTalkRadio if you're a tweeter, or if you're into 20th century technology, you can pick up a phone and call us at 1-877-5-Star-TALK. So Lynn, it's Star Trek is the subject today.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  It is. And Star Trek and physics?

• 8:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 8:14Speaker 02

  What is wrong with me today?

• 8:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I don't know.

• 8:16Speaker 02

  Physics, sorry. Okay, so what are we going to talk about about Star Trek?

• 8:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, everything.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  My personal astrophysicist.

• 8:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Everything. Everything. Star Trek, it's created its own culture around itself, and it's a culture that spilled over into the real world in ways that just...

• 8:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Most people have not even fully appreciated. It's what I've come to learn. You know, from all the gadgets and all these things. And, but we should first learn a little bit about the movie, I think.

• 8:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 8:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I've got a friend who's a movie reviewer.

• 8:48Speaker 02

  Wait, he's not gonna spoil it for me, cuz I...

• 8:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He's a movie reviewer.

• 8:51Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 8:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So I think they know better. They're professionals. It's a friend, Brandon Fibbs. And he writes movie reviews at BrandonFibbs.com. And, but he's not only a movie reviewer, he's a sort of rabid tech, Trekkie. I mean, rabid.

• 9:07Speaker 02

  Oh, Trekkie.

• 9:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And, and apparently it like influences his marriage too. He is married, I'm like the stereotype.

• 9:12Speaker 02

  I dated a Trekkie, and I'll tell you the problems with Trekkies.

• 9:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What?

• 9:16Speaker 02

  That, and, and it's gonna happen today on the show, I know it is. Please don't call me and yell at me.

• 9:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Why?

• 9:20Speaker 02

  Because Trekkies get very like, if you say something wrong, and I know it's gonna happen today. That's why I'm being kinda little quiet.

• 9:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah?

• 9:26Speaker 02

  Cuz the minute you say something wrong, they're, they are all over you like, oh, are you... Spaceships can't travel at warp speed, what's wrong? And they know all this Trekkie stuff.

• 9:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, he's in an interesting situation because he's not only a movie reviewer and a Trekkie, but his wife works for NASA. And so, there's a tension in their relationship because I've heard her say, he plays in fake space while she works in real space.

• 9:50Speaker 02

  Right, that's like the difference between the French Canadians and the French. The fake French and real French.

• 9:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Let's see what Brandon Fibbs has to say. Did you like Star Trek?

• 9:59Speaker 04

  I did like Star Trek, although I must confess, I walked out of it the first time I saw it.

• 10:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, wait, it's only been out a couple of weeks. Well, how many times have you... Don't answer that. How many times have you...

• 10:10Speaker 04

  I saw it twice before it even came out in theaters, so. I, I walked out of it deeply agitated and, and deeply troubled. And if you're not a Star Trek fan, or if you're a casual Star Trek fan, you're not gonna notice anything that, or very few things that I noticed. But, of course, being the fan that I am, I was deep in the weeds of minutia. And there were things that bothered me very much.

• 10:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What is the thing that bothered you the most?

• 10:35Speaker 04

  Implausibility issues, the plot is absolutely ridiculous.

• 10:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, wait, wait, wait, we have like warp drives and Vulcans, but that's not ridiculous. But the plot somehow disturbed you.

• 10:48Speaker 04

  Well, as you could know, having watched it, you know, there are issues that even laymen like myself have with singularity, quantum singularities and black holes and the way that they're used, or I should say abused.

• 10:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I was all, they had this red matter that would turn a planet into a black hole. I gave him that. If you're bad, that's what you would do if you had red matter that could turn something into a black hole. I wasn't going to argue that. I thought the drill was an interesting concept, this thing that, whatever, laser thing that would drill through the center of a planet. If you wanted to kill the planet, then you drop the red matter down that hole. I thought that was cool. Although if the red matter were going to turn the planet into a black hole, you wouldn't have to start from the center. You just drop it on the surface. Totally, that would work.

• 11:27Speaker 04

  Then you don't get those beautiful special effects of imploding planets.

• 11:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Alright, so what was your, so you had plot issues?

• 11:32Speaker 04

  I had plot issues. I had issues with taking a Starfleet cadet who hasn't even finished his tenure at the academy yet and promoting him from cadet to captain after one particularly heroic weekend.

• 11:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That was Captain Kirk, wasn't it?

• 11:46Speaker 04

  Well, it's a pushing, pushing.

• 11:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you're saying in the real Starfleet Academy, that wouldn't have happened? I sound like your wife now?

• 11:54Speaker 04

  You know what, I can easily more, I can more easily accept warp technology than I can promoting a guy that fast.

• 12:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So that's not, you're not disturbed by the fact that that disturbs you?

• 12:07Speaker 04

  I will not confess it here or anywhere else, except the privacy of my own dark room.

• 12:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Alright, I gotta leave you at that. BrandonFibbs.com. Thanks for coming on the show.

• 12:18Speaker 02

  I love it. Okay, Brandon, if you're listening, I'm gonna tell you right now why your wife finds you annoying, because you're annoying.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  Because his wife is working at NASA, solving real problems, and you know, she comes home to him saying, upset about Klingon warp drives. Brandon, mow the yard! You're bothering me! But, but he does sound interesting and he does sound like he takes it to heart, and I like that in a critic.

• 12:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And at least he's married, unlike the stereotype we have for the rest of the Star Trek fans who haven't had their first date.

• 12:53Speaker 02

  Yes, but I doubt he's getting sex from his wife, but whatever. That's just a personal observation. I'm a comic, people. I'm a reporter of the truth. I go out, I see it, I bring it back. It's not always politically correct.

• 13:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right, well, I wanna, I wanna shift this up. You're listening to StarTalk.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  I wanna distract you away from Lynn.

• 13:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're listening to StarTalk. I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson, joined by Lynn Copeland, a comedian, may I remind you every now and then, that's who she is. You wanna tweet us at StarTalk Radio, or if you're into old-fashioned technology, 1-8775-StarTalk, if you have an opinion, or if you're dating a Trekkie, or if you're a 40-year-old...

• 13:31Speaker 02

  If you are a Trekkie, peel your Spock ear off and pick up the phone.

• 13:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I wanna pick up some subjects about Star Trek. There's a lot of technology that was introduced, envisioned in Star Trek, the original show, that today I think we have and take for granted. And I interviewed, I interviewed a friend and colleague named Lawrence Krauss. He's a professor down at Arizona State University, and he wrote a book. He's a physicist, pure physicist, but dabbled in like pop culture, and wrote a book called The Physics of Star Trek, and it's one of his biggest-selling books.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 14:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And let's, let's hear our first clip from my interview with him a few weeks ago. This is StarTalk. I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson, and today I'm interviewing Professor Lawrence Krauss. He's at Arizona State University, and he's visiting New York this week, and as part of a major, major celebration of science for the World Science Festival. So Lawrence, welcome to town.

• 14:26Speaker 05

  It's great to be here, Neil.

• 14:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And what's your official title down there in Arizona?

• 14:29Speaker 05

  It's kinda long, but I'm the Foundation Professor in the School of Earth and Space Exploration, the Department of Physics, and the Beyond Center, and the Director of the New Origins Initiative at Arizona State.

• 14:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Now, none of that is why I have you for this interview. I just want you to know that.

• 14:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Our, our show subject today is Star Trek. Star Trek, and I happen to know, as do many people who are great followers of yours, that you wrote a book called The Physics of Star Trek. First, why the physics of Star Trek, and not like the physics of the Beverly Hillbillies or something?

• 15:01Speaker 05

  Some people suggest I do the physics of Baywatch, but anyway, Star Trek is clearly... Captured people's imaginations and I must admit, I didn't really appreciate it when I first wrote the book, how deeply ingrained it was in the public's imagination and I think the reason is that Star Trek's about possibilities, really that's the basis of Star Trek, the possibilities of alien civilizations and psychologies, the possibility of getting past our petty myopic rivalries of the present time.

• 15:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait a minute, isn't any science fiction story about possibilities, so why would Star Trek rise above the rest?

• 15:30Speaker 05

  Well, in some sense, but it's a hopeful view of possibilities, it's a view that somehow, somehow, science and rationality in some way will make the future a better place.

• 15:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because a lot of science fiction are dystopic rather than utopic.

• 15:41Speaker 05

  Exactly, and it's not quite utopic, but it's close, it's not dystopic, first of all, and secondly, I mean, the actual mission of the Enterprise is to find out what's possible in the universe and it seemed to me, you know, when you go to a party as you-

• 15:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The Enterprise is the name of their ship.

• 15:54Speaker 05

  Exactly, and as you probably know, if you go to a party and say you're a physicist, people say, "How about those Yankees?" And, but if you talk about Star Trek or warp drive or time travel, people get fascinated and they don't realize in some sense, they're fascinated with science and so what I wanted to do was take something that people are clearly fascinated about and use it as a way to, a portal if you wish, to learn about the real universe, which is actually more exciting.

• 16:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you've written actually many books, some scholarly works and some popular books on the frontier of physics, but is that your biggest selling book, The Physics of Star Trek?

• 16:27Speaker 05

  Absolutely, without a doubt, and in fact, it's also, for me, more importantly, probably the only book where I've had seven, eight, nine year olds come up to me and tell me how much they enjoyed it and now, 15 years later, have met a number of physicists who said they were seven, eight, nine and that caused them to be a physicist and for me, that's the greatest joy.

• 16:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you wasted your time writing all those other books?

• 16:45Speaker 02

  I like him.

• 16:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, he's a good guy.

• 16:49Speaker 02

  Lawrence Krauss, he is interesting, I would want to read that book, but you know what, I've always wondered that and as I was thinking about the show, and he just touched on a question I was gonna ask, that what came first, like Star Trek or some of these ideas, like, do you think that some of these scientists that are developing some of the ideas that are coming from Star Trek things were little kids watching the show and because it was in their heart?

• 17:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, yes, yes, in fact, whole generation of people inspired by what was shown on Star Trek, became technologists, scientists and engineers later on and invented these things and they became dreamers and if you don't have dreamers today, you don't have inventors tomorrow.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  Oh, listen to you being all deep, hey Andrew, riddle me this, astrophysicist, what's dystopic?

• 17:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Dystopic, it's-

• 17:35Speaker 02

  I mean, I know what utopic is.

• 17:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Utopic is a beautiful future. Dystopic is imagining a really nasty future you don't want to occupy.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  Okay, but Star Trek sometimes show bad things too.

• 17:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It ends, it ends always beautifully.

• 17:47Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 17:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We've got a caller at 1-877-5-Star-Talk. We've got Don, is it Don? Don, are you on the line, calling from California?

• 17:58Speaker 06

  Hello?

• 17:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes.

• 17:59Speaker 06

  Yeah, this is Scott.

• 18:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, Scott, excuse me.

• 18:02Speaker 06

  Great, great pleasure to talk to you, Dr. Tyson. I've been following you for quite some time and really admire your work.

• 18:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Excellent, thank you.

• 18:07Speaker 06

  Thank you. Uh, my question is, I, I've been curious about black holes. I understand the basic principle of it. But what is the outside shape? Is it flat? Is it round? Is it cone shape? What do we know?

• 18:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, it turns out, black holes, which by the way, you want to avoid at all costs.

• 18:24Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 18:25Speaker 02

  What are you looking at me for, Wayne?

• 18:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Black holes played a cameo role in the movie Star Trek, of course. Uh, if you haven't seen it, I strongly recommend it just for cultural, if not scientific reasons. Uh, black holes that are not rotating are perfectly spherical. The event horizon, the boundary beyond which you go and never return, has the poetic name-

• 18:44Speaker 02

  And tell Scott what they are. They, because it's cool what they are.

• 18:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's a region of space.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  It's a vacuum, right?

• 18:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Gravity is so strong, you fall in and you never come out, and light doesn't come out, so it's black and it's a hole. We just call it black hole. We call it like it is.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  And get this, they rip you apart, piece by piece, don't they?

• 18:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They would if you fell in, yeah.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  You told me that, I like that.

• 19:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I did. You like it?

• 19:03Speaker 02

  Well, it's kinda cool, because gravity keeps you, right?

• 19:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, so gravity at your feet pulls you faster than the gravity at your head, in a feet-first dive. And as that happens, your body's molecular strength cannot withstand the ripping force of gravity, and you rip apart atom by atom. And you're long, it's called spaghettification, actually.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  Spaghettification, hey!

• 19:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so, so black holes, it's been rumored that black holes connect through wormholes to another part of the universe. In any case, the notion that you can go from one part of the universe to the, to another by invoking a warp drive is something fundamental to what it is to get around the galaxy.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  First of all, are there wormholes?

• 19:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh, theoretically, yes, but we don't, we've never seen one. And as best as we know, if you tried to create one, they would immediately collapse on themselves.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  For people listening, in case you don't have a personal scientist at your side like I do all the time, this is a little, a little clue, just so you know. When they tell ya that they don't, like theoretically, that means it's possible. They won't ever say, if they don't say no...

• 20:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's right, that means it's possible. If physics doesn't prevent it, it means it's possible.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  It's possible, so...

• 20:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  God is gone, we've got Don on the line. I think he's got a question about our warp drives. Don?

• 20:15Speaker 07

  Yeah, hi.

• 20:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  How you doing?

• 20:17Speaker 07

  Uh, um, the one problem that I had with warp drive and warp drive technologies, uh, in the, in the shows is they changed it up a little bit and now you can do, um, times three or times five for warp drive.

• 20:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Will you go to a problem with that?

• 20:37Speaker 07

  Yeah, well, no, no, no. The, the problem was somebody, I, I can't remember who did it, but somebody did the mathematics on actually doing, uh, or doing warp drive. I think it was the guy you were talking to the last time.

• 20:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh huh.

• 20:49Speaker 07

  And, uh, supposedly there is a plateau that you can't go any faster.

• 20:55Speaker 02

  Don, Don, let me ask you a question first. Excuse me, this is Lynn. Are you a Trekkie?

• 20:59Speaker 07

  Actually, yes, I am a Trekkie.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  Okay, you're, you're talking warp drive like a diehard Trekkie.

• 21:06Speaker 07

  No, I'm not a diehard Trekkie, but I, I do believe in the science behind a lot of it, uh, and the way people have been thinking and changing the way they perceive things, um, in the universe.

• 21:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, here's, here's the point, though.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  So, your question, his question is warp drive, what, what speed is it?

• 21:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Don, the, the, the point is very simple. The galaxy is, let's say, a hundred thousand light years across, and it would take you a hundred thousand years to traverse that at the speed of light. That's longer than the TV commercials.

• 21:33Speaker 02

  What's the speed of warp drive, Neil?

• 21:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Warp factor one, Lynn, is just the speed of light. So you go warp factor two, three, four, or five. And in principle, as you warp the space between where you are and where your destination is, you can shorten that trip as short as your circumstances require. So I know of no limit to how much you can, Don, I don't know, I know of no limit to how much you can warp space to travel from one location to the other according to the laws of physics. Now, there might be some technological constraints.

• 22:02Speaker 02

  But is there really, there isn't really warp drive, is there? I mean, that's made up for the show.

• 22:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, it's completely made up for the show. Well, he said he was a Trekkie. Don't get on his case now because he's taking it seriously.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  I like that you're taking it just as seriously, like, oh, I really don't know if exactly warp drive is. Well, all right, Don, the answer then is that warp drive is actually the speed of light.

• 22:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, well, warp factor one.

• 22:23Speaker 02

  Warp factor.

• 22:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, but you have warp, higher warp factors where you can go as fast as you. So I know of no limit, and if there is one, I'll check with Lawrence and I'll get back to you guys on that. We're gonna take a break. You're listening to StarTalk.

• 22:42Speaker 00

  We want to hear from you. The phone lines are open. Call now. This is StarTalk.

• 22:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Call now at 1-877-5-Star-Talk if you have an opinion on our show's subject today, Star Trek. The movie, the culture, the phenomenon, the gadgets, the... Lynn, you dated a Trekkie, apparently.

• 23:07Speaker 02

  Oh, I've dated everything. I've dated a Klingon, a Trekkie, Romulan.

• 23:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I remain fascinated by all the things that were shown in Star Trek and then show up today. For example, I remember when I was a kid and seeing the automatic sliding doors. They just, I said, "Oh, that'll never happen in centuries."

• 23:24Speaker 02

  But it happened.

• 23:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But it happened. And we had to sort of crawl before we could walk. The early sliding doors had pressure-sensitive pads, so you'd step on the pad and the door would open. Now it's like electromagnetically triggered, and so...

• 23:36Speaker 02

  And I always wave my hand in front of them. Even now, I do that.

• 23:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Why do you do that? Are you afraid your body doesn't?

• 23:40Speaker 02

  No, because it's like magical. I like to feel like I did something. They did that in some movies. Yeah, that's exactly what I do.

• 23:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In fact, I would say we are more advanced than their doors because our doors don't make that swishing sound.

• 23:50Speaker 02

  But that swishing sound is cool.

• 23:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We oiled our doors.

• 23:54Speaker 02

  Like Don who called about warp drives. I guarantee you, he likes that swishing sound. They like that. And there's more on our website.

• 24:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, in fact, for the complete interview between me and Lawrence Krauss, the author of Star Trek, you go to the StarTalkRadio website, star trek radio dot net, where you can even send us emails if you'd like. But it wasn't just the sliding doors.

• 24:17Speaker 02

  No, there were other cool things that came out of Star Trek.

• 24:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, Uhura had that cool earpiece that stuck out of her ear. We got that, these Bluetooth. We got Bluetooth communicators. People walking down the street, otherwise looking like they're talking to themselves, they're actually connected into the airwaves.

• 24:30Speaker 02

  I really don't like Bluetooth because I live in New York City and it's already hard to differentiate the freak show that takes place here. And now you see these people talking to themselves and I can't tell you how many times I've been giving people the widest berth on the sidewalk, like, what are you doing? And then you see the little blue and you're like, oh.

• 24:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There it goes. And not only that, they've had the communicators, right? And these are flip things that made a little sound. We have, that's where cell phones.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  You're such a Trekkie right now. I was just gonna say communicator, you mean a cellphone.

• 24:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's turning me on just thinking about it. Our cell, the flip cellphones.

• 25:03Speaker 02

  And ironically enough, the flip cellphones, the communicators, come with a T-shirt that say, "I'm a 40-year-old virgin. I've never had sex with a lady."

• 25:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So I'm willing to wager that if Star Trek did not have flip-open communicators, that our modern-day cellphones would have never done that. I feel that in my bones.

• 25:26Speaker 02

  And you know what? I kind of believe that, too.

• 25:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  Because that's what I'm saying when I was asking you about scientists being influenced by stuff as a kid. And you know that whoever did that was like, wouldn't it be really cool if it was like, just like it was when Kirk got to open it on Planet Nebuloo? Or whatever the heck it was. Now someone's gonna call in, "There was no Nebuloo. She's an idiot." Dr. Tyson.

• 25:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Alright, so other things like remote location tracking.

• 25:50Speaker 02

  Oh, I love that!

• 25:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, they would find each other wherever they were on the planet. We do that now with our GPS.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  And now we have the cellphones that have it, the stalking boyfriend cellphones that I love.

• 25:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, is that what you, how you think of that technology?

• 26:01Speaker 02

  That's what it is, where your boyfriend can say to you like, um, I'm on my way home, or I'm on Planet Nebula. Are you really? Because according to these coordinates, you're at O. Henry's pub, you lying idiot.

• 26:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So ours, I don't know how their technology worked, but ours, we beam it off of GPS satellites that have precise positioning of longitude and latitude and time on Earth. And you receive that signal and send a signal, we know exactly where you are.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  So all that stuff we see on CSI now too, a lot of that comes from Star Trek ideas.

• 26:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, when they're like-

• 26:34Speaker 02

  Because on all those crime shows, they're constantly finding people because they're like, according to the satellite tower, the phone call was made at this time.

• 26:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, that, okay, well, that would just be the cellphone towers, cellphone, not satellite towers.

• 26:45Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm sorry, cellphone tower.

• 26:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm trying to tell you how it goes. Also, one, my favorite of all was the-

• 26:51Speaker 02

  It's Sunday afternoon at like 2 o'clock, I just woke up an hour ago.

• 26:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The med, my, my favorite is the medical tricorder. That's my favorite, the way they wave it over your body and they get to know all your ailments just in one-

• 27:00Speaker 02

  Oh, Dr. McCoy did that.

• 27:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, yes, I just, I just love that. And we have, kinda have that today.

• 27:05Speaker 02

  Do we have it?

• 27:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's kind of the, the MRI, the machine we sort of slide you into and-

• 27:09Speaker 02

  That's not the same thing.

• 27:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, it is, we find out what's going on inside your body without cutting you open.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  No, on Star Trek, it, there was a little thing in his hand. Oh, come on, back me up, Trekkies. Call in.

• 27:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, no, but the idea is the same, we're, in order to know what's going on inside of you without cutting you open.

• 27:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you know what? I'm, I'm fighting with you, but the truth is, everything starts big and gets small unfortunately. But it is true, isn't it?

• 27:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It is true.

• 27:34Speaker 02

  Because, because, remember we had betas and all those things, now they're-

• 27:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, the first computers were the sizes of rooms, and now you carry them around in your pocket. So who am I to say that we're not gonna have pocket MRIs in the future? Sure.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  Oh my, oh, my manager's the biggest hypochondriac, I can't imagine him having a pocket MRI, do it again. Check me, check me, cat scan me one more time.

• 27:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And I gotta say, MRI stands for magnetic resonance imaging, and by the way-

• 27:55Speaker 02

  Great, I'm so glad I knew that, I'll put that in my don't care bag, thank you.

• 28:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It comes from a physics principle called nuclear magnetic resonance.

• 28:04Speaker 02

  Oh, that's interesting.

• 28:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It was discovered by a physicist who was not, had no particular interest in medicine. So, I submit to you that every medical device in a hospital that has an on/off switch is based on some physical principle discovered by a physicist in a lab somewhere.

• 28:16Speaker 02

  I submit to you. Why?

• 28:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We can submit to each other.

• 28:20Speaker 02

  I would submit to you, and I'd like you to get back to me in a submission. Why did, um, I was gonna say something so dirty, I'm so glad I edited myself.

• 28:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  She's a comedian, people.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  Why did, um, if he had no interest in it, why did he do it?

• 28:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, he didn't have interest in medical applications. It was a frontier of physics. Where if you blast nuclei with a very strong magnetic field, you can align its, you can align the spin, it's called a spin, it's a quantum mechanical spin, but just call it spin. You can align the spin of the nucleus.

• 28:50Speaker 02

  Go ahead, say that with a totally straight face to me.

• 28:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And it can affect the direction of light that you pass across those atoms.

• 28:55Speaker 02

  That's very interesting.

• 28:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And in so doing, you can make a map, a three-dimensional map of what the light passed through, and in this case, you do it with X-rays, for example.

• 29:03Speaker 02

  Alright, what else do they use them for?

• 29:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, so you find out what's inside of things. In fact, now they do it for, to find out what's inside of mummies, without having to open up mummies. It's a very wide application. So...

• 29:13Speaker 02

  A minute. We know it was inside of mummies, it was a person.

• 29:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, but you wanna know, was it male, female, whether the bones look like, how many teeth they have left without it?

• 29:20Speaker 02

  Can't you tell by the bump on the way they wrap it?

• 29:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I mean, if it was male or female?

• 29:26Speaker 02

  That's why I always figure they can tell if it's male or female. It has a bump.

• 29:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I don't know, I'm not a mummyologist.

• 29:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They also had a tricorder, of course, that would, I think it was also called a tricorder, where they can decide whether it's an oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere, whether there are lifeforms around, that might attack them.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  Oh, can detect that bacteria?

• 29:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Bacteria, oh yeah, oh yeah.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  Can they make those for personal use? Cause I could use one like in a hotel room.

• 29:51Speaker 02

  I wanna know what's going on.

• 29:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  NASA has a version that can detect bacteria, like on the space station and things.

• 29:58Speaker 02

  Oh my god, wouldn't that be great to buy that?

• 30:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I don't know if it can like to tell it if it's around the corner, the way they could on Star Trek. I don't know.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  Who used that all the time on Star Trek?

• 30:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Let me remind people what they're listening to. You are listening to Star Talk. Today, our subject is Star Trek, and I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson, astrophysicist. And I'm with my co-host, comedian Lynn Copeland.

• 30:20Speaker 02

  Hello.

• 30:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, yes. Did you know, Lynn, also?

• 30:24Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah.

• 30:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That I think while their communicators on Star Trek worked under any conditions, unless there was some force field preventing it, our cellphones, which use microwave technology, have a hard time working through water.

• 30:39Speaker 02

  What do you mean that it was microwaves?

• 30:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, because microwaves are absorbed by water. That's how microwave ovens work, actually.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  Oh, I thought you meant, oh, I was really gonna make myself look stupid.

• 30:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, so with my-

• 30:51Speaker 02

  Woo, lots of self-editing today.

• 30:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, so if a thunderstorm comes over while you're using your cellphone, it will greatly interfere with your reception. Because the cellphone signal, which is microwaves, is trying to get through the cloud, which is laden with water, and most of that gets absorbed and interferes with-

• 31:07Speaker 02

  Is there a way to use another kind of energy? Because there's lots of different energies, right?

• 31:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The problem is-

• 31:12Speaker 02

  Not just electromagnetic.

• 31:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Exactly. Long wavelength radio waves could get through a rain cloud, but then you would need a receiver that was much bigger than the cellphones we use.

• 31:20Speaker 02

  I think your smart's rubbing off on me. You've got your smart in my dummy, and I've got my dummy in your smart. It's like a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup.

• 31:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, one more thing that I think is great is, back then they had the phaser. The phaser? Normally it would be used to vaporize someone, but they could put it on stun. I think that was the first ever non-lethal weaponry ever shown.

• 31:40Speaker 02

  That's like the taser now.

• 31:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Like the taser, yes, yes.

• 31:42Speaker 02

  That definitely came from that.

• 31:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, well, certainly the name of the product surely was derived from Star Trek phaser, surely.

• 31:50Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 31:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, yeah, totally.

• 31:51Speaker 02

  But we don't have anything that can evaporate you phaser-like, do we?

• 31:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Not that you carry on your hip. We have things to evaporate you, but not that you would carry around in a holster, no.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  We do have things that can-

• 32:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Completely, of course. They're called hydrogen bombs. There's a lot, I don't mean to laugh. I'm just saying, we have larger weapons that could vaporize entire villages.

• 32:07Speaker 02

  But do we have like a pepper spray kind of thing? I'm saying where you could put it on your utility belt, the way that, uh, Star Trek people did.

• 32:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That would be non-lethal weapons. I don't know that we have anything handheld in your pocket that could vaporize your, like, your faces.

• 32:19Speaker 02

  Thank god, because I live in New York City and that would be horrible. Can you imagine? Everybody would be nice to each other. You'd get vaporized for no reason.

• 32:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Now, it's not only stuff that we have today that we know was inspired by Star Trek. There are things that I think we haven't, don't, have not yet come around that they showed and portrayed and was part of everyday life. And let's go back to, uh, my interview with Lawrence Krauss to hear what he has to say about technology we're waiting for.

• 32:45Speaker 02

  That's...

• 32:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Tell me about the transporter.

• 32:47Speaker 05

  Okay, the transporter is what seduced me to write the book, by the way, because like you, I'm sure, I'm on planes a lot and I really, uh, wanted to avoid, even before this long security lines, that, all the hassle. And I started to think, wow, how would you make a transporter? All the neat physics you have to think about. But right away, I realized I would not make a transporter the way the Star Trek writers tell you to, because I have surfed the internet and I have seen the light. Namely, I've, uh, I've downloaded...

• 33:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Some people surf the internet and see the dark.

• 33:14Speaker 05

  Exactly, that's right. Well, the point is in Star, again, if you open the Star Trek techno manual from your back pocket, you'll see that, uh, that they, the way the transporter works is very simple. They take you and they disintegrate you into individual atoms and, uh, a matter stream and they move your atoms from one place to another and they put it back together again.

• 33:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So it's actually moving matter, not energy?

• 33:32Speaker 05

  That's right. Well, I mean, they try and convert it to energy, which is, by the way, a po, a problem, because if you convert the average human being into energy, the energy equivalent of the average human being would be about a thousand, a hundred megaton nuclear weapons explosions, which is not, as we like to say in New York City, environmentally friendly. But I'm a physicist, not an engineer, so I'm not going to worry about that so much.

• 33:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There you go.

• 33:51Speaker 05

  But, uh, uh, that, that is a big problem with taking the matter or energy. But, information can travel at the speed of light very easily. And then the internet, we can do it. And so what I, what I would do if, if I were, were going to make a transporter, is I would scan you and take all the information that makes you up as a human being.

• 34:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And then reconstruct you at the other side.

• 34:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, but that, that's a problem though, because I haven't transported you, because you're still here. But that's simple, I vaporize you here and then you're only over there.

• 34:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you'd kill me.

• 34:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 34:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So there's only ever one of me.

• 34:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's the idea.

• 34:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Otherwise, you'd be cloning me.

• 34:18Speaker 05

  In fact, actually, I've pointed out, if you could make transporters the way I say you could make transporters, although you, I also point out, you can't ultimately do it, it'd even be worse. If you think of all the, all the, um, uh, the ethical dilemmas regarding things like stem cells and other things nowadays, they pale in comparison, because not only could I clone you, I could make a backup copy of you. So if you got sick, I could just shoot you and call up the backup copy and-

• 34:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And don't have to spend any money on healthcare.

• 34:41Speaker 05

  Exactly. The backup copy wouldn't have the memories the last few months, but it'd be healthy. So it'd be, so these things would be fascinating, but unfortunately, as I point out, um, even that information transfer has a problem, and, and I think will make the transporter impossible. It's a, it's a very fancy law of physics called the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

• 35:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There you go.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Okay, so-

• 35:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 35:03Speaker 02

  Based on that little clip, my question is, is he saying he could trap you in a computer?

• 35:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh, the information that is all that you are and your essence, yes, he can store that on a computer.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  He could steal your soul.

• 35:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If, yeah-

• 35:18Speaker 02

  Mary Kraus could steal your soul.

• 35:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, and, and that's, that might have soul implications, yes, yes.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 35:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 35:25Speaker 02

  And then he was talking about, this was funny to me.

• 35:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you asked the question, so you asked the question, if you're in one spaceship, you're beamed, the, all the information content of you is beamed to another spaceship.

• 35:32Speaker 02

  Right.

• 35:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Are the beaming also what you would, are calling your soul? Because if it's without your soul, then you're some other kind of person at that thing.

• 35:39Speaker 02

  But my body would die. Right now, they don't know what to do with your body.

• 35:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  With your leftover body on the other ship, because now there are two of you. Yes, that's part of the problem.

• 35:45Speaker 02

  Oh, wow, that's so wild. And then also, Lawrence Krauss was saying something about, well, that's not my problem, because I'm a physicist. I, I, that just made me laugh, because I'm like, okay, well, what it, like, how does an engineer and a physicist, quickly, how do they work together?

• 35:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The physicist comes up with theories of the universe and tests them and finds out when they're true, and then the technologist, the engineer, invokes those theories for applications, and they make stuff, they make devices.

• 36:09Speaker 02

  So the physicist is like, I think all this would be good in a cake, and then the engineer goes and bakes it.

• 36:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Or they bake a kind of cake that the physicist hadn't thought of, that could be baked in the first place.

• 36:18Speaker 02

  Oh, interesting.

• 36:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're listening to StarTalk. We're tweetable at StarTalk Radio, and we're also-

• 36:23Speaker 02

  Tweet us.

• 36:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We are also available to you with 20th Century Technology called the telephone, 1-877-5-Star-Talk. We've got a call, I think we've got Michael from Newport Beach. Michael, what's your question first?

• 36:35Speaker 02

  Hi, Michael.

• 36:36Speaker 08

  Hi, uh, first of all, it's an honor to talk to you, Dr. Tyson. I'm a big, big fan and I've agreed with everything-

• 36:44Speaker 02

  What am I, a chop liver? I'm getting tired of all these "honor to talk to you, Dr. Tyson."

• 36:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They will learn that it's also an honor to talk to you-

• 36:53Speaker 02

  And we like your hooker, too.

• 36:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right.

• 36:56Speaker 02

  Go on, go on, Michael, I'm sorry.

• 36:58Speaker 08

  You've been very funny today and actually asked some good questions.

• 37:00Speaker 02

  Thank you, Michael.

• 37:02Speaker 08

  Uh, anyway, but you managed to step on a pet peeve of mine today, Dr.-

• 37:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I love pet peeves, go for it.

• 37:08Speaker 08

  Yes. Um, it's, I don't remember the exact way you phrased it, and perhaps you phrased it in a way that, that wouldn't do this, but the, uh, but you said that biology is, essentially, biology is reducible to chemistry. And I will agree with you that chemistry and physics are fundamental to biology, but I disagree with the idea that it's, uh, that it's reducible, because biology has in it a principle called evolution-

• 37:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:33Speaker 08

  -which does not naturally fall out of chemical principles or physical principles that we know, that matter has the ability to reproduce and evolve and increase its, uh, increase its complexity. It's not inconsistent with physics and chemistry, and indeed the process uses physics and chemistry, but that, but it is an emergent property that is, that physics and chemistry does not capture in its theory, uh, at least as far as, uh, it's developed today.

• 38:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, uh, Michael?

• 38:02Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 38:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I agree.

• 38:04Speaker 08

  Okay, great. Well, we must agree on everything now.

• 38:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, no, so let me, let me-

• 38:08Speaker 02

  I'm glad you guys agree. I would like to know if either one of you know if my, a fat in my body could be teleported to me.

• 38:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, let me, let me, let me highlight the point that, that, uh, that Michael's making. Michael, you make a very good point. What you're saying is, you cannot use the principles-

• 38:25Speaker 02

  But I can't date smart men, because I can understand-

• 38:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What he said, I'm gonna reword what he said, and I think you'll agree with this. You can't use the principles of chemistry, even though biological processes are traceable to chemistry, you can't use the principles of chemistry to predict, or to, or to foretell the fact that biology has this thing called natural selection leading to evolution.

• 38:46Speaker 02

  I totally disagree, you're both wrong! You're wrong. I don't even have to tell you why. I'm just telling you wrong. Like a Republican, I'm just gonna scream, "You're wrong. You're wrong."

• 38:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Michael, I agree. It's an emergent feature.

• 38:58Speaker 02

  No, you're right. You are right.

• 38:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And I'll be here.

• 39:00Speaker 08

  And my mom has a major crush on you, Dr. Tyson, too.

• 39:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Ooh, that's kinda kinky, you know. Someone comes at my mom, you know. Well, give her, do give her my regards.

• 39:09Speaker 08

  Okay, I will. She, she broke her hip, but, but she'll be glad to hear that, you know. So, she, she's got your best wishes.

• 39:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay. Thanks. Thanks for calling, Michael.

• 39:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, Ty, we hope she feels better. Thanks, Michael.

• 39:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  She broke her hip, but she loves you.

• 39:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're listening to StarTalk. We're tweetable at StarTalkRadio. Also, 1-877-5-Star-TALK. Our subject today is Star Trek.

• 39:33Speaker 02

  Even the other caller?

• 39:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Theme subjects and, and all that, uh, and all that relate to it.

• 39:38Speaker 02

  That guy was smart.

• 39:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah. No, he's good. And he's very careful and very, very pedagogical, I would say.

• 39:43Speaker 02

  Ped-a-what-a?

• 39:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Pedagogical.

• 39:46Speaker 02

  What does that mean?

• 39:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If you're, he, he has, uh, teaching instincts.

• 39:49Speaker 02

  Oh, 'cause I had Amber Alert written all over it to me. I didn't know what that meant. Ped-a-what-a?

• 39:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We've got Jack from Lancaster. Uh, Jack, is that, you on the line? How you doing?

• 40:00Speaker 02

  Hi, Jack.

• 40:02Speaker 07

  I've got a question. Um, Dr. Tyson, uh, when's the next time you're gonna be on the Colbert Report?

• 40:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, well, thanks for tracking that. I've actually been on the Colbert Report five times. I, I think maybe the most, actually. I don't know if he's had some other folks since then. I'm actually scheduled to be on the Colbert Report again in the next few weeks. I'd forgotten the exact date, but it'll be listed on my website. And based on what you just said, I'll make sure to put a note on StarTalkRadio.net as well. Um, and also, uh, I'll be on Jimmy Fallon this coming Wednesday, if you, if you all stay awake that way.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  Excellent. Make sure you watch that, Jack.

• 40:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, is that your question? Did you not have some deep feeling about StarTalk? I mean, about Star Trek? He's gone. Okay. So, when?

• 40:43Speaker 02

  He wanted to know something about you.

• 40:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, okay. I'm, I'm, I'm happy for that. Let's take another break. You are listening to StarTalk, and we want to hear from you about your feelings, comments, opinions regarding Star Trek, its role in our society, whether you're dating a Trekkie, what you feel about this. Uh, I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson. It's Lynn Kopfletz. Joining me, StarTalk.

• 41:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome back to StarTalk. I'm your host, astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson, joined by comedian Lynn Koplitz. Lynn?

• 41:27Speaker 02

  I like this techno music we have playing.

• 41:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's very kind of German techno.

• 41:31Speaker 02

  European gay house club music.

• 41:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You can tweet us at StarTalkRadio.

• 41:36Speaker 02

  Producer Ivan created that. I like that, Ivan.

• 41:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Tweet us at StarTalkRadio, or call us at 1-877-5-Star-TALK. Our subject today is Star Trek and all its cultural implications.

• 41:47Speaker 02

  Talk more about the cool things that were on the spaceship.

• 41:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, there's one thing that it was cool, but we don't have yet: the holodeck. That came in later shows.

• 41:53Speaker 02

  That was so cool. We have things like the holodeck now.

• 41:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, we have sort of virtual helmets where you go inside them and you pretend like you're in a swordfighter thing. Right, but it's not a room. It's you're goggled and you're helmeted.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  But eventually, will people be able to have a holodeck room, like the way people have screening rooms now?

• 42:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I don't see why not. And if you plug it directly into your sort of neurosynapses, you could simulate feelings and emotions and love and hate.

• 42:15Speaker 02

  Oh my goodness, that's a bad idea. You could totally get addicted to that, couldn't you?

• 42:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, if you're addicted, if you're an addictable kind of person, I mean...

• 42:22Speaker 02

  Oh, excuse me. I can go into a room where I'm like in an awesome comedy club and I'm killing every night, and I'm getting paid a lot of money by the owner. I don't think I'm coming out. Oh, and could you kill somebody in there?

• 42:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I don't see why not, but it's not for real. It's not like the Matrix.

• 42:37Speaker 02

  That's what I mean. You're not gonna go to jet for it. You want to kill somebody, you just go into the holodeck?

• 42:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, it's an interesting ethical issue, because you know people have illegal thoughts all the time.

• 42:46Speaker 02

  You holakill.

• 42:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah. So, would a holodeck be a place where you would live out all of your sort of transgressive behaviors? I mean, who knows?

• 42:57Speaker 02

  And would the government sanction it? Would things happen? Like, if you're looking at certain porn, they can catch you?

• 43:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, this is, it's an interesting ethical issue. What kind of holodecks would be in our future?

• 43:07Speaker 02

  Oh, and then the Japanese would create holodeck clubs, like karaoke clubs, where you'd go there with people?

• 43:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, so all different kinds.

• 43:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you could be, you could imagine you're captain of a ship, or, you know, whatever.

• 43:21Speaker 02

  Is that what you would do, Neil? What would you be? What would you imagine?

• 43:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I don't know. I, I have this fantasy that I'm, I, I like, I live out my life on a desert island somewhere with, with internet. Just in solitude.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  Seriously?

• 43:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 43:34Speaker 02

  You can do anything in a holodeck? You can have sex with Angelina Jolie and you go on a desert island? And do a bad, uh, what's his name movie?

• 43:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, oh, um, uh, uh, what's the guy's name?

• 43:46Speaker 02

  Where he's with Wilson, the, the, yeah.

• 43:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, no, I'll, okay, I'll think about it and then get back to you on that.

• 43:52Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh, that's hilarious, Neil, please, please. You wanna go alone on a desert island with your computer?

• 43:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you know, you know what they have? They have tractor beams. We don't have tractor beams today. They had tractor beams back then.

• 44:03Speaker 02

  Wait, what, didn't they have something to do with cloaking devices?

• 44:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh, well, okay, there were cloaking devices, and...

• 44:09Speaker 02

  I love that.

• 44:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, cloaking means you make yourself invisible. And all it means is that the light you're using to see the object trans, goes right through, through the object.

• 44:18Speaker 02

  And the Klingons or somebody used to use those?

• 44:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Klingons, Klingons had cloaking devices and the Federation did not.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  And when it was too late, then they would show up?

• 44:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They would show up right in your face and then fire upon you. They couldn't fire while they were cloaked.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  And they were in their beam?

• 44:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In the be, well, no, so then if you wanna tractor beam them, you tractor beam them and then they can't escape from you, even with their engines.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  I do that with men.

• 44:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  How, Lynn?

• 44:36Speaker 02

  No, my cloaking device, no lie, I, cause, because women have lots of cloaking devices, if you don't know this, guys. We have, we're an illusion, most of us, especially as we get older. And I was, I was dating this French guy, I'm not kidding you. And I had, um, he woke up in the morning and I had my fake hair, my eyelashes, my, my booby insert things, like my chicken cutlet fake silicone things. And he was like, "There are pieces of you in the bathroom." And it was, it was too late. I already had him in the tractor beam. I'm a Klingon sucker.

• 45:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so you use this to attract him in and then he's trapped?

• 45:07Speaker 02

  Then he's, then he's too late. By the time he sees everything, he sees the real me laying on the floor.

• 45:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I didn't know women had tractor beams.

• 45:15Speaker 02

  We do. Oh, O'Neill, there's so much you don't know because you're on an island with your computer.

• 45:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right. Now, also, the matter-antimatter was- antimatter's real. It's- we make it in particle accelerators all the time. But it's the favorite fuel of science fiction. It's the total annihilation of matter with total annihilation-

• 45:30Speaker 02

  They were talking about this on Nurse Jackie this week.

• 45:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Really?

• 45:33Speaker 02

  Exactly what- that's a great show. Exactly what is antimatter?

• 45:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Ah, antimatter is-

• 45:40Speaker 02

  Against matter?

• 45:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, okay, it is the quantum mechanical opposite of matter. So it's a proton, the antimatter proton would have negative charge instead of positive charge, for example. And the antimatter electron would have a positive charge instead of a negative charge. And it's otherwise identical, the same mass, same other properties. And if you bring them together, they annihilate and they become pure energy. It's the most efficient conversion of energy we know. It is real and it is continuously tapped for science fiction themes. And the power generators for the Enterprise and the starships of the future all matter-antimatter drives.

• 46:15Speaker 02

  I think Paula Abdul said it best when she said opposites attract. That's what you're saying, right?

• 46:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh-

• 46:22Speaker 02

  Like if you take- antimatter takes one step forward and matter takes two steps back.

• 46:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It would attract and then annihilate. That's the difference. The part you left out.

• 46:30Speaker 02

  That's me. That's how I date. Attract, annihilate. But wait a second. Do we use this now? We use antimatter now?

• 46:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, in particle accelerators.

• 46:39Speaker 02

  Do we make bombs with it?

• 46:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh, we don't- we're not good enough to do that yet. Good enough, dare I say. Uh, because if I have a blob of antimatter and I hand it to you, how am I going to hand it to you? In what suitcase? Because the suitcase is going to be made of matter and the matter will be touching the antimatter and it will annihilate. So, so you need like magnetic bottles to contain it. It's a very- and so, right, so matter-antimatter annihilation's not something we have any control over.

• 47:01Speaker 02

  How'd they even create that? How'd you even find that?

• 47:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In a particle- you smash particles apart and some of those byproducts are antimatter particles.

• 47:08Speaker 02

  That's interesting.

• 47:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's completely there.

• 47:11Speaker 02

  It's kind of cool.

• 47:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you really, let me reset the show. You're listening to StarTalk. StarTalk. I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson. You can tweet us at StarTalk Radio, or call us if you're into 19th century, actually, 20th, barely 20th century devices by phone, 1-877-5-StarTalk. Tell us what you think about Star Trek, and what effect it might have had on your life. Let's find out. Star Trek has actually influenced culture in ways that I think we don't always appreciate. And in my interview with Lawrence Krauss, he, author of The Physics of Star Trek, he actually went there a bit. Let's find out.

• 47:47Speaker 05

  If you're going to push the edges, you have to push them away which doesn't violate known things, but doesn't create stuff that's so wacky that you, you basically immediately say, "That's so crazy, I can't even get into the plot." In fact, I think it's important to realize, I once was on a program with a very distinguished science fiction writer, who said, "You know, the science in good science fiction is really peripheral. It's the story that matters." And I think Star Trek originally, of course, that's the other reason it caught on, it was these, these great sagas, and it was, it was Wild West in, in the stars, as Gene Boddenberry wanted. And, and the science just gave you a, a new venue to make it more interesting, and it allowed them to do things that they never did. In fact, the first interracial kiss was on Star Trek. Lots of things they couldn't have done in the real world that they were able to do in the, in this fake world. And,

• 48:31Speaker 05

  and at the same time, I think, get people thinking and yearning for going to the stars. And, and from my point of view, to the extent that one could channel that, and, and seduce people, as I like to say, to, to, to use their fascination with what's possible about there, to, to think about the real universe, which I do maintain, and I, and I say it at the end of Physics of Star Trek, is that, you know, in the 23rd century, I think the physics of the real universe will be far more interesting than anything the Star Trek writers have come up with.

• 48:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, there you go. Star Trek just in our culture, in and around us.

• 49:02Speaker 02

  I mean, Star Trek, absolutely. It, no one can argue with the fact that it did push the, the envelope on everything, on interracial things.

• 49:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, it had the first interracial kiss, yes, and first interspecies love, you know.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  Well, that, I mean, that's what I like about Gene Roddenberry was that he kinda took it and said, "Okay, not only do you have a problem with interracial stuff, would you have a problem with interspecies?"

• 49:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The odd thing is, there's Kirk, you know, getting, getting action all across the galaxy, but no one actually wrote in about that, only when he and Uhuru kissed.

• 49:32Speaker 02

  That was their problem, right?

• 49:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That was their problem. And even then, that was, their urge to kiss was by, was, was forced by some alien force field that made them kiss.

• 49:42Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I love, I love that. Well, that was smart in Gene Roddenberry, too. It was like, well, he had to kiss a black lady because the aliens made him.

• 49:51Speaker 09

  Kirk to crew. Is anyone aboard?

• 49:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You know, what's interesting is the, um, there are people who have, uh, there's a long history of very attractive women being portrayed in, in science fiction roles. I mean, and Uhuru was, was no exception to that.

• 50:07Speaker 02

  Definitely, she's in miniskirts.

• 50:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, and boots, knee-high boots, and...

• 50:11Speaker 02

  Without a doubt. And Captain Kirk was no idiot.

• 50:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And Lynn, uh, before the show, I heard you sort of, uh, pining about, uh, how you might like to sort of, like, marry Spock? Is this like, what you're...

• 50:23Speaker 02

  No, I was making him play a game.

• 50:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, it was, it was a game? I think, is this what you do in your spare time, Lynn?

• 50:29Speaker 02

  Neil, first of all, I bring pop culture to Neil.

• 50:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What, what is it? Who'd you marry?

• 50:34Speaker 02

  Bang or date. Just say it like it is. It's called marry, bang, or date. A lot of people play it.

• 50:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I didn't know you thought about Star Trek Crew for this. Okay, so why don't you tell me?

• 50:44Speaker 02

  I think of everyone. I mean, people do it all the time. Who would you rather marry, bang, or date? It's a game people play.

• 50:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so?

• 50:50Speaker 02

  So, on, with Star Trek, who would I marry, bang, or date? I would, I would marry, I told you, I would marry Spock.

• 50:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, to keep you warm and dry, go.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  No, and because Spock is logical and he would get things done, I would date Scotty 'cause for obvious reasons, he's a Scottish, he's gonna be drunk and fun.

• 51:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Turn the bar.

• 51:07Speaker 02

  And I would, I would, um, yeah, I would bang, uh, Kirk, but I want him to get, I want him to get tested first and not just at a clinic. I want like NASA testing.

• 51:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  'Cause he's, he gets around.

• 51:18Speaker 02

  He gets, like, alien tail or tails.

• 51:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Lynn, you're out of control here. I got it, this, that means it's time to go, I think, Lynn.

• 51:27Speaker 02

  Sorry, on that note.

• 51:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're listening to StarTalk Radio. I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson, your host. A show funded by the National Science Foundation. We'll see you again next week on StarTalk.