#ICYMI: Planet Soccer: Science and Technology

This week, former British footballer Gary O’Reilly shows Chuck Nice around his old stomping grounds, the soccer pitch. Helping him investigate the science and tech that’s transforming the game are NY Cosmos Assistant Coach Alecko Eskandarian and astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson. (Adult Language) Don’t miss an episode of Playing with Science. Subscribe to our channels on: TuneIn: tunein.com/playingwithscience Apple Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/playing-with-science/id1198280360 GooglePlay Music: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Iimke5bwpoh2nb25swchmw6kzjq SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/startalk_playing-with-science Stitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/startalk/playing-with-science NOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free. https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/planet-soccer-science-and-technology/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Gary O'Reilly?

  Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm Gary O'Reilly.

• 0:12Chuck Nice?

  And I'm Chuck Nice.

• 0:13Gary O'Reilly?

  And this is

• 0:14Chuck Nice?

  Playing with Science.

• 0:16Gary O'Reilly?

  Today, we focus our steely gaze onto planet soccer and illuminate the science and technology and in particular, the new tech that has come into play and might well be over the horizon in the coming years.

• 0:29Chuck Nice?

  And who better to bring forward the science and check if the tech is up to snuff than our very own personal astrophysicist, Dr Neil deGrasse Tyson.

• 0:42Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 0:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, just to be clear, like most Americans, I'm less fluent in soccer than I am with other sports. So my role in this conversation will be as someone who is fluent in physics.

• 0:57Chuck Nice?

  Well, that's why you're here Neil.

• 0:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, thanks.

• 1:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But I'm deflecting all soccer questions, specific soccer questions, to our other guest.

• 1:06Chuck Nice?

  And, and speaking of that other guest, we have with us loading up the professional viewpoint, former US men's national team player and coach at the New York Cosmos, Alecko Escondarian. Yes.

• 1:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Thank you guys. Thank you.

• 1:21Chuck Nice?

  Thanks for being here, man.

• 1:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  My pleasure. And Alecko, let me compliment you on working for a team that has the name Cosmos. Just wanted to say.

• 1:31Chuck Nice?

  I figured you would like that.

• 1:32Gary O'Reilly?

  Alecko's got an interesting history. His father played for the New York Cosmos.

• 1:36Chuck Nice?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:37Gary O'Reilly?

  Back in the day with Pele, Nayskins, Beckenbauer, who I will bow down on my knees in front of football royalty. They are the gods of the game. So envious of your father, Alecko. And Alecko is now working also with Major League Soccer. So he's got quite an important role to play in the future of the game.

• 1:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So what you're saying is Alecko's the flunky of the family.

• 2:01Gary O'Reilly?

  In some ways, yes. You're saying that because you know that he's gonna have to punch me to get to you.

• 2:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I've got my distance.

• 2:08Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, thanks a lot, yeah.

• 2:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The configuration on stage here.

• 2:11Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay.

• 2:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm insulated.

• 2:14Gary O'Reilly?

  Continuing with the celestial theme, we'll take Eleco back to his days at the LA Galaxy.

• 2:20Chuck Nice?

  Ooh.

• 2:20Gary O'Reilly?

  Well, thank you. And one David Beckham. Everybody in this room knows David Beckham. Everybody outside of this room. He played for the Galaxy, right? Yeah. So we have the Cosmos and the Galaxy. Yeah. Whoa, I'm in the right place. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. You see? Oh. You see? Thank you. It's all coming together. No Red Bull here, or whatever. No, no, no. See, you know far more soccer than you're letting on. I'm betting. Right. So for those of us who are familiar with David Beckham, we know kind of the backstory. But there's one in the room here who knows exactly what it's like to play, to train, to work with. But I think for-

• 2:54Chuck Nice?

  Gary, why, why do you have to embarrass me?

• 2:58Gary O'Reilly?

  Because that's just the way I am.

• 3:01Gary O'Reilly?

  All right, but we'll get to Eleco- You didn't talk about your hair. We'll get to Eleco soon enough. But Chuck, should we, we set up a clip?

• 3:07Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, speaking of Beckham and bending it like Beckham, it was very cool to go back and find a clip of his, um, his first goal with the Galaxy, which was on a free kick.

• 3:22Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 3:23Chuck Nice?

  And I think a wall of six players in front of him and, um, and he actually did his signature, bend it like Beckham and-

• 3:33Gary O'Reilly?

  Was it signature yet?

• 3:34Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, at this point, it was definitely his signature because-

• 3:37Gary O'Reilly?

  He wrote his pen with him.

• 3:38Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 3:38Gary O'Reilly?

  Definitely his signature.

• 3:39Chuck Nice?

  So why don't we take a listen to that?

• 3:41Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 3:42Speaker 03

  He's got about six people in the wall covering the near side, Troy Perkins does. Can he bend it?

• 3:49Speaker 03

  Beckham! It's in the net! It's in the net! Do you believe it?

• 3:56Speaker 03

  Beckham can bend it.

• 4:04Gary O'Reilly?

  So anyone in here who doesn't know, that's- Almost ninety nine point nine percent certain it's a right footed inside of the right boot free kick gonna go curl right to left but that's as much as the science as I know.

• 4:17Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, and I gotta tell you what's when you look at that goal and it's exactly what you you know and anybody who doesn't know we we have two professional soccer players here today because Gary O'Reilly is also a former soccer or footballer because he played in a Crystal Palace and Tottenham, right?

• 4:37Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 4:38Chuck Nice?

  Uh, and Tottenham.

• 4:40Gary O'Reilly?

  Tottenham Tottenham, yes Tottenham is very abbreviated.

• 4:43Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, that's how you Tottenham.

• 4:45Gary O'Reilly?

  Somehow doesn't sound so glamorous.

• 4:49Chuck Nice?

  But no.

• 4:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You don't get Chuck to pronounce the Brits.

• 4:51Chuck Nice?

  You don't want me doing that but yeah, so we have two professional soccer players here and that is why Gary was able to point out the fact that just by listening that he could tell you exactly how that ball which I watched the play that is exactly how but what was so um I don't know just stunning about it is the amount of curve that he was able to put on the ball I mean it like if this were Major League Baseball he would have immediately been ejected from the game that's how much curve was was on the soccer ball.

• 5:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Illegal amount of curve.

• 5:29Chuck Nice?

  Yes, it was yeah.

• 5:32Gary O'Reilly?

  Can you bring.

• 5:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Putting Vaseline on the ball.

• 5:34Gary O'Reilly?

  Can you bring the science to what Beckham is doing and able to achieve there?

• 5:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, what's curious I I'm curious about a couple of things to curve a ball is just to spin it while it's airborne.

• 5:45Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 5:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So of course you want to be accurate, precise.

• 5:49Gary O'Reilly?

  Yep.

• 5:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  As you do this so you need to to know what you're doing know how to aim it know how much to curve it know not to kick it too slow or too fast.

• 5:59Gary O'Reilly?

  Mm hmm.

• 5:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because all of these factors influence how far it will go and how much it will curve. So presumably he's done a lot of homework that is in the case of an elite athlete a lot of practicing on exactly what that kick would do now what got me is here's the goalie standing in the middle of the goal and watches the ball just sail off to his right into the net almost like a tennis ace where he's not even diving for it.

• 6:24Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 6:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He was taken completely off.

• 6:27Chuck Nice?

  Off.

• 6:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And what makes the curve so I don't want to speak for the pros here but but if the ball is curving. It means you think it's coming towards you. Right. But it's not. So you you're ready to sort of extend your arms to punch it out of the way. But then it just sails to your right. And you've taken completely off guard. And I just thought by now, all goalies would just huddle in the right side of the goal.

• 6:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  When you aim to the left. And then after all that, maybe. So so what happened if you if you kick it with a spin, sort of. Uh, there's something in physics called the right hand rule. The right hand rule. Yes, it is the right hand rule. It's not what you're thinking, Chuck. Yeah. Okay. I hope you're taking notes. See, Neil knows me too well. Well, no, Chuck. Yes. So the right hand rule is if you use your right hand and you curl your fingers in the direction the thing is spinning. Okay. Okay. And then your thumb points to the north pole of that object. Okay. Okay. So north poles are uniquely unambiguously definable in space and across the universe. And in all physics. Okay, so if you kick the ball in such a way that it is spinning with your right hand rule,

• 7:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  with your thumb up. Mm hmm. Okay. Then the aerodynamics on the ball, because the right side of the ball is not going against the air and the left side of the ball is moving with the air as it goes through. Okay. So so the forces are going to be different on each side of the ball. Mm hmm. For that simple reason. Now, it turns out there's something called a Magnus effect, which is a lot written about it. And so I I at the risk of making this more complicated than necessary. No, please do.

• 8:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Chuck. Yes. You're in a row. Make it as complicated, I mean, throw in a little calculus while you add it. Okay.

• 8:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So if the texture on the ball, if the ball's surface is not perfectly smooth. Okay. Then what will happen is the texture on the ball will break up the airflow along the surface of the ball. Okay. Okay. In such a way that it will reduce. What would otherwise be sort of a partial vacuum there will reduce that. Okay?

• 8:44Chuck Nice?

  All right. Now you lost me because.

• 8:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So therefore creating more slightly more. Exactly. Exactly. So watch what happens. So, so all, all balls that we play with.

• 8:53Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 8:55Chuck Nice?

  All right.

• 8:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Professionally.

• 8:56Chuck Nice?

  You got me back. You got me back.

• 8:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Professionally have some kind of texture on them, be they golf balls or basketball.

• 9:03Chuck Nice?

  Or wrinkles. Go ahead.

• 9:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Or, or any, they all have some kind of texture. So when they spin, they will break up what would otherwise be a very smooth flow around the, the, the contact edge of between the air and the ball.

• 9:18Chuck Nice?

  Got you.

• 9:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So now, so watch what happens. So you break this up on the part that's spinning into the wind.

• 9:24Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 9:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay. It breaks it up very effectively. The side that's spinning back towards you with the wind has a lower airspeed against the wind.

• 9:35Chuck Nice?

  There you go. Now I got it.

• 9:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Doesn't break it up as much.

• 9:36Chuck Nice?

  So the disruption actually reduces the airspeed on the backside.

• 9:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes.

• 9:44Chuck Nice?

  And that.

• 9:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And, and that gives you, no, so that, no, the, on the backside, that gives you less disruption.

• 9:51Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 9:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  More vac, essentially more of a, of a pulling force.

• 9:54Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, exactly. So that's why I was saying, so on that side, it's.

• 9:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's actually pulling and on the other side.

• 10:00Chuck Nice?

  It's pushing.

• 10:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so you, once you spin the ball.

• 10:02Chuck Nice?

  Gotcha.

• 10:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Then there's an air force that will push on the ball at right angles to its motion at all times.

• 10:10Chuck Nice?

  Okay, cool.

• 10:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay. So as it curves, it just keeps curving.

• 10:12Chuck Nice?

  Right. Gotcha.

• 10:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It'll just keep curving.

• 10:13Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, because that never changes. That rotation never changes.

• 10:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Whatever. And so, so, so as the direction changes.

• 10:19Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 10:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So does the direction that it's, so that's why when you see these curves, it's like, it keeps going.

• 10:25Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 10:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Keeps curving.

• 10:26Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 10:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And he's like, whoa.

• 10:28Chuck Nice?

  That's cool. And so that ball that we saw that, that, that we didn't see it, we heard, um, that.

• 10:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This is radio.

• 10:35Chuck Nice?

  This is radio.

• 10:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Power of imagination.

• 10:39Chuck Nice?

  But let's just say, uh, we were in an abyss where there is atmosphere. That ball would have just keep curving no matter what.

• 10:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Except gravity's pulling it to the ground.

• 10:50Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 10:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So ultimately it will likely hit the ground before it comes around and hits you back in your face.

• 10:56Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 10:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay. So Alecko, if you knew all of this before you ever bent a ball, would you have bothered?

• 11:01Gary O'Reilly?

  Or would you? So.

• 11:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And I got a question to put on top of that.

• 11:06Gary O'Reilly?

  Go on then.

• 11:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's his physics. Why is he the only one that anyone talks about bending the ball?

• 11:11Speaker 04

  See, that's, that's a, that's a good point because in my opinion, everyone, everyone curves the ball, right?

• 11:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Of course.

• 11:18Speaker 04

  Obviously with, with Dave Beckham, he's not the only one in the world. There's plenty of talented free kick specialists who aren't as noticeable or, or famous as, as David is.

• 11:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Or handsome.

• 11:27Speaker 04

  Or, or better looking.

• 11:28Chuck Nice?

  Which is probably the case. That's really what it's separate.

• 11:31Gary O'Reilly?

  Maybe a Spice Girl element in there as well, but moving on.

• 11:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Did you date a Spice Girl?

• 11:35Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, married one.

• 11:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Excuse me, I didn't know. You're all looking at me like I should know that.

• 11:38Chuck Nice?

  I know.

• 11:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm an astrophysicist, people.

• 11:41Speaker 04

  You should know that.

• 11:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But the editor.

• 11:42Chuck Nice?

  Well, she's a star.

• 11:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 11:45Speaker 04

  But I, I think a lot of it is the shape of your foot too, because

• 11:49Chuck Nice?

  Oh.

• 11:50Speaker 04

  You know, for me, for example, I have a very powerful shot and when I play.

• 11:54Chuck Nice?

  If you say so yourself.

• 11:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, well.

• 11:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So powerful means the ball moves fast.

• 11:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. I, I was able to generate more power on my shot than, than any player in the league when, when I was playing.

• 12:02Chuck Nice?

  Nice.

• 12:03Speaker 04

  But I think a big part of that is I have a, a very wide foot, very, very wide. So I feel like I, I had a, I don't have facts to back this up, but I feel like I have a base that my sweet spot is, is maybe bigger than someone else's.

• 12:17Chuck Nice?

  Interesting.

• 12:17Speaker 04

  Whereas with, with David, I don't, I don't know.

• 12:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, just to be clear, just to clarify that. So you can have a sweet spot, but if your sweet spot doesn't hit the ball's sweet spot, it's not going anywhere.

• 12:26Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 12:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So if you have a wide sweet spot, your margin of error is larger. So

• 12:31Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 12:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If you're running and the ball's moving and someone is, is bumping into you, you will have a higher likelihood of making a powerful kick under stress.

• 12:40Chuck Nice?

  So now are you saying your powerful kick comes from, and tell me the difference, please, from, uh, um, but, but I'm sorry, let me say it again. Is your powerful kick a free kick or is that a powerful kick while you're in motion?

• 12:55Speaker 04

  Both.

• 12:55Chuck Nice?

  Or is it both?

• 12:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, it doesn't, I mean, and it's not just the shape of my foot, obviously.

• 13:00Chuck Nice?

  It's, of course, I know.

• 13:01Gary O'Reilly?

  There'd be a whole lot of, there'd be a whole lot of ratios between quadriceps, hamstrings, glutes that come in and the length, the length of the lever. Sometimes, did you have a long, a high, a long back lift or a short back lift?

• 13:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What's a back lift?

• 13:12Speaker 04

  Very short.

• 13:13Gary O'Reilly?

  So when you go to kick. The motion of the heel backwards from the ball, sometimes you find guys.

• 13:19Speaker 04

  I had a very quick release, which made it difficult for the goalkeeper.

• 13:21Gary O'Reilly?

  Which is quite strange because I played with one guy at Tottenham whose back lift was minimal. And the power that he imparts into the ball is like, whoa.

• 13:29Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, that's also got to be confusing for a goalie too.

• 13:31Gary O'Reilly?

  Exactly, because the reaction time for the goalkeeper is that much less.

• 13:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's like a pitcher and the ready for you to wind up to hit, to kick it. And you don't wind up and you kick it and it goes faster than they would have judged.

• 13:40Chuck Nice?

  Right, exactly.

• 13:41Speaker 04

  Less time for the goalkeeper to react.

• 13:43Chuck Nice?

  So now, because I've never played soccer, all right, here's what I want to know. You talked about, you know, the, the part of your foot that you kick it with.

• 13:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He had it surgically altered.

• 13:55Chuck Nice?

  But it looks as though when you see guys, you know, I do watch soccer. A lot of times it looks like they're kicking it with the side of their foot.

• 14:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Their instep.

• 14:07Chuck Nice?

  Their instep, um, as opposed to the top of their foot. So what happens, and both of you can answer this for me. What is the difference when you kick with the top of your foot as opposed to your instep?

• 14:17Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay, so the thing what Neil was saying about how, you know, you've got a guy barging you. You've got someone running you down or you've got a narrow opportunity where you see the goal. Alecko will talk to this because you're a striker, right? Absolutely. You are in tune, an intuitive balance. You know, you need to dial up a certain technique. So go through the techniques that you would use and the different parts of the foot you would use to execute.

• 14:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, absolutely. During a match or during the flow of a game, there's, there's different techniques that you're going to implement. Depending on what you want to achieve out of it. So if it's a, a long pass, I, I obviously can't use the inside of my foot to get a ball from here. Forty yards down in the air, that's not good. So it's a different technique. I'm going to use my instep to get the, get underneath the ball, get some more distance on it, more power on it. And it'll probably be backspin on it as well. Um, whereas if I'm going to take a shot. I wanna power right through it. I wanna keep it low. I'm not even worried about uh I'm more more concerned about keeping it low and on frame because I have a target. Um if I have a barrier in front of me, so if that camera's in front of me and I have a teammate that's making a run behind,

• 15:26Speaker 04

  I have to now decide, okay, which way is that defender gonna be moving? Which way do I wanna curve it uh around him to be in the path of my teammate? So if my teammate's running this way.

• 15:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Left, right?

• 15:37Speaker 04

  You know, left to right.

• 15:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Across your.

• 15:39Speaker 04

  And and I wanna play a ball in front of him, but there's a barrier in the way. I'm gonna wanna curve it maybe with the outside of my foot, so it gets around the barrier and still will come back in his path.

• 15:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right.

• 15:50Speaker 04

  It's not too far for or too um too different than basketball. You know, when when you see LeBron James, sometimes he even puts spins on his.

• 16:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  On the bounce pass.

• 16:01Speaker 04

  Exactly, on his bounce pass. So it's Jason Kidd was the guy that was phenomenal at that.

• 16:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But but an important point here, the basketball generally is not traveling fast enough through the air for this effect to matter.

• 16:13Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 16:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In its airborne trajectory.

• 16:15Speaker 04

  Right.

• 16:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Whereas in soccer, a kick goes fifty miles an hour. And so it turns out what I did, what I should have left, what I should have exited that that bit about was here are the things that that that here are the things that matter for how much it's gonna curve. What is the ball weigh?

• 16:31Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 16:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What is the density of the air that you're playing in?

• 16:34Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 16:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And one of the World Cups, there were different games at different, one was at sea level, one was at higher altitude. Was that in South Africa?

• 16:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  When when was that? Two thousand and ten?

• 16:42Speaker 04

  Ten.

• 16:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So so the thinner air sensibly will have less effect on pushing the ball than thicker air will.

• 16:50Speaker 04

  Right.

• 16:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because it's the air that's pushing the ball. So it's the thickness of the air, the dense, you know, the the air pressure, uh the weight of the ball, how fast you kick the ball.

• 16:59Speaker 04

  Gotcha.

• 17:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And uh and also how high the how ball, how long the ball stays airborne? Because then it'll it has more time to curve.

• 17:08Speaker 04

  Right.

• 17:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So if you keep the ball low, it's gonna drop to the ground.

• 17:12Speaker 04

  The ground before it does what it's supposed to do.

• 17:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Interesting. And part of the curving is not just to to fool the goalie at the risk of stating the obvious. You have a wall standing in front. And how far away are they you?

• 17:22Gary O'Reilly?

  Ten yards.

• 17:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They're ten yards, so.

• 17:24Gary O'Reilly?

  Allegedly.

• 17:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, okay.

• 17:26Gary O'Reilly?

  We got, we got spraying now, we got spraying now for that.

• 17:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I never see a line there, I don't know. So, I looked at the angles on that and they try to cut off your angle to the goal.

• 17:34Gary O'Reilly?

  Right.

• 17:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  By where they stand. And if you can curve it, where they stand is irrelevant.

• 17:39Gary O'Reilly?

  Gotcha.

• 17:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You just put it around them.

• 17:41Gary O'Reilly?

  They'll jump, there's all different ways, but they jump, you work out, they jump, you stick it.

• 17:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But they could jump sideways, they could jump up.

• 17:45Gary O'Reilly?

  No, but the other thing is you take a.

• 17:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I just want to put that down.

• 17:49Gary O'Reilly?

  When you strike a ball to get some curvature on it, it depends how much, and Alekko can testify to this, how much of the ball you actually meet with the instep on your foot. If you want to curve it a little bit or a lot, if you're going for power. Anyway, look, we're gonna take a break.

• 18:02Chuck Nice?

  All right, and you know, when we come back, I'm so glad that you bought this out because I actually have some balls that I actually went to a store and bought and.

• 18:11Gary O'Reilly?

  Thank you for clarifying.

• 18:12Chuck Nice?

  To clarify, just okay. And I, I, I want you guys to take a look at them and then maybe break down just a little bit more of what we're talking about in terms of how these balls might react.

• 18:22Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, so what Chuck's saying is we've got a range of balls, including the brand new Telstar 18 that will be played with in Russia in the World Cup next year.

• 18:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You always have to translate what Chuck says?

• 18:33Gary O'Reilly?

  No, because I don't, I don't know how many of our audience have actually seen that ball. It's a brand new ball, it was only released last week, so this is a first look for all of us.

• 18:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I went out and bought some balls, he, he was looking for more detail, I think, on that.

• 18:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Soccer ball, different styles, and the styles change for every World Cup.

• 18:51Chuck Nice?

  And you know what, that's really all I had to say was, I went and got some soccer balls.

• 18:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 18:55Gary O'Reilly?

  And we're gonna take a break.

• 18:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right.

• 18:57Gary O'Reilly?

  See you shortly.

• 19:08Gary O'Reilly?

  Welcome back to Playing with Science, where we today look at the beautiful game, soccer, football, call it what you wish, and the science, the technology, the technology of now, and in parts to come, technology that will be available and coming to a game near you very soon. Right, Alekko, you have the brand new Telstar 18 ball in your hands.

• 19:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's called Telstar?

• 19:31Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, I knew that was gonna press your.

• 19:33Chuck Nice?

  Telstar, so we got Cosmos, Galaxy, and now Telstar.

• 19:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Telstar is America's first communication satellite.

• 19:39Gary O'Reilly?

  But this is Telstar 18.

• 19:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, that's fine. By now, we would have eighteen.

• 19:43Gary O'Reilly?

  No, the original Telstar Adidas Telstar ball was for Mexico nineteen seventy. The black and white hexagons, the classic that we all have in our mind, yeah. So this is the new version they're in. What do you notice? Don't tell me it's round, otherwise I'll get upset with you.

• 19:57Speaker 04

  No, it's definitely a different contour when you feel it. I've never felt a ball like this, actually. I'm not curious to see how it would.

• 20:04Gary O'Reilly?

  All right. So Neil, I'm going to give you this one, which is another Adidas ball. For those of you listening in black and white, it's green and black. Right.

• 20:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That was good, Gary.

• 20:13Gary O'Reilly?

  Thank you kindly.

• 20:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Very good.

• 20:15Gary O'Reilly?

  What do you first notice tactile when you pick and hold that ball?

• 20:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, this is the, I'm holding the ball that's sort of most familiar to people. It's a combination of hexagons and an intermittent pentagon to finish out the stitching. And so if you see this, you would obviously just say that's a soccer ball here in America. Other stitchings, you'd wonder what game is that for? So the surface of this, because of the stitching, it is part of the surface, the contouring of the ball that enables it to break up the air that goes across it. And without the stitching, by the way, if the ball were perfectly smooth, here's the kicker, no pun intended.

• 20:54Gary O'Reilly?

  It was intended.

• 20:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No. If a ball were perfectly smooth, without disrupting the boundary layer of air, the Magnus effect changes mathematical sign and the ball curves in the opposite direction.

• 21:06Gary O'Reilly?

  Ah, so this is a smooth surface?

• 21:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This is smooth, but these, the stitching here is enough to, but it would, because the surface is smooth, it would reduce the Magnus effect by a corresponding amount compared with a similar ball that has a mottled surface, for example.

• 21:24Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay, so back in two thousand and ten, excuse me, in South Africa, we had the Jubalani ball, which was hated by goalkeepers, loved by strikers like Alecko, because it became, at a certain speed, a knuckleball effect. So it would do all sorts of stuff that nobody quite could define. And it was more, the surface was smoother. Now, I'm going to give you this Telstar eighteen, which you will covet because of its name, I know. I'm going to swap this over.

• 21:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're swapping. So just, just, okay, so just a point about the, your smooth ball.

• 21:51Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 21:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so what happens there is if you kick the ball basically without spin, so a knuckleball and baseball is a ball thrown without spin. And when it does not have a spin, then it's no longer spin stabilized. And what, what that means is it is at the mercy. Of any gust of wind that blows by. And in the case of a soccer ball, yes, that's also the case. But unlike a baseball, soccer balls have valves, which change the center of mass of the ball.

• 22:24Gary O'Reilly?

  Hmm hmm.

• 22:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so I bet some kickers are aware of this and will place the ball relative to where the, the, the air valve is.

• 22:34Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, they do.

• 22:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because that, that's an asymmetric point of the ball. So in a knuckleball, the ball, I'm sorry, in a, a non-spinning soccer kick.

• 22:43Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 22:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Knuckleball equivalent.

• 22:44Gary O'Reilly?

  It's still a knuckleball and soccer.

• 22:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's still, oh, yeah.

• 22:46Gary O'Reilly?

  You're in safe ground.

• 22:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Even though it's not your knuckles that are, that are doing it.

• 22:50Gary O'Reilly?

  Toe knuckles.

• 22:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh, so what's, what's happening is the ball will move according to its own center of mass. But the structure of the ball is not centered on its center of mass. Because there's a little more mass to one side than the other.

• 23:08Gary O'Reilly?

  Cause it's asymmetric.

• 23:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's asymmetric.

• 23:10Gary O'Reilly?

  Gotcha.

• 23:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So in other words, the, the, the, the ball will sort of wobble in a sense, even though it is keeping its own center of mass on a straight line.

• 23:22Gary O'Reilly?

  Right.

• 23:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay. Cause that's how the physics works. But the side, because the ball itself is not even, it'll, it'll wobble as it goes through the air. Uh, and so that'll mess with the goalie for sure.

• 23:31Gary O'Reilly?

  So those of you familiar with the Cristiano Ronaldo free kick that goes up, down, left, right, all in the same breath. What he's doing is playing with the science, pun intended by the way, me saying that, is he will kick through the aperture that's on the ball. The deformation, am I right?

• 23:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Sure.

• 23:46Gary O'Reilly?

  Is then what plays and that's what goalkeepers are sitting there looking. That's why you see frozen goalkeepers quite often thinking.

• 23:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right.

• 23:51Gary O'Reilly?

  Well, it's a roll of a dice. If I dive left, right or stand still, whatever happens.

• 23:55Speaker 04

  And you could see as, as soon as they pick up the ball, they're, they're looking for that little nozzle and then that's where they're putting it down.

• 24:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So now I predict, based on this ball, this is a stunning ball, by the way. This, okay, the stitching is, it has more stitching than your classical hexagon Pentagon ball.

• 24:10Gary O'Reilly?

  Although it's only got six panels.

• 24:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I, I don't care. No, it's, it's, it's, forget the panels. I'm talking about how many places is there stitching?

• 24:17Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 24:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Where a perfect sphere dimples because. There's stitching there. There's way more stitching that I can see on this ball. Way more segments where that are surrounded by this and the surface is not smooth. It's textured. Oh my gosh. You want to talk about bending it like Beckham? This is a bendable ball. I predict in the next tournament that features this ball. The ball is going to look like a like a wiffle ball in a hurricane.

• 24:51Speaker 04

  Bad day to be a goalkeeper.

• 24:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Once again, this ball is a goalkeeper's nightmare. Uh, this will be a goalkeeper's nightmare for sure, but unless the kickers have time to practice. Their normal spin that they would put that they've trained that would aim and land in a particular place could go completely wild on them.

• 25:11Speaker 04

  And that's the thing with the Jubalani ball that you mentioned, there were a lot of shots that were going 20 yards over the goal just because it was. It was difficult for for players to understand.

• 25:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Didn't get the curve that they wanted.

• 25:20Speaker 04

  Not always. Sometimes it would.

• 25:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Bending left and right, depending on your left footed or right footed or on what side of the ball you kick it. That's sideways bending. You can bend it top and down. With it has a backspin or a topspin.

• 25:32Speaker 04

  Correct.

• 25:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So a topspin, it'll dive quickly. A backspin, it'll sustain its trajectory longer than what your brain sense. Tells you gravity should do to it. So it's not really rising. But like the right, well, well, yeah, correct. It's not. It's gotcha. Correct. It's so. It's falling less. In baseball, just to use my, you know, American analogies here.

• 25:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There's America, Jack.

• 25:57Speaker 04

  I'm hearing.

• 25:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The rising fastball that people talk about, uh, if you look at the side, uh, uh, and now and it. Analysis of it, it actually doesn't rise at all. It just doesn't fall as fast as your brain thinks it should. So you feel as the batter like it's rising. And so, uh, the same would be true with with the soccer ball. So. So I I will look forward to what kind of soccer is played with that. That'll be a fan favorite ball for sure.

• 26:23Gary O'Reilly?

  It's loaded towards the strikers and you as a striker, how long will it take you or you think some of the World Cup stars? To learn how to work that ball out, where the sweet spot is, where they want to work it, how they're going to pass it, distance. 30 yards, 20 yards, 10 yards and strike at goal. How long do you think it'll take?

• 26:40Speaker 04

  Not too long.

• 26:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They're good.

• 26:43Speaker 04

  I would say, yeah.

• 26:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In your day, you know.

• 26:46Gary O'Reilly?

  Days, weeks, years, never.

• 26:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Never.

• 26:50Gary O'Reilly?

  Choose the applicable out of that list.

• 26:52Speaker 04

  Now, within a couple of training sessions is usually all it takes. That's why you see teams try to get these balls in. You know, if you're gonna play a match and you're gonna play with a ball, it's different than the one you train with. A team will always try to request at least two days before the match.

• 27:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Particularly if it's deflated, you know, you can't.

• 27:09Gary O'Reilly?

  So the thing is, if this ball, when, if you go to hit it for distance, say 60 yards, 50 yards plus, and this ball starts to change its flight path and become unpredictable, teams will change the way they play. They will not play longer diagonal passes. The game will become shorter and therefore quicker. They will adapt to the ball because, by the way, the ball won't be changing. They'll have to change their style to accommodate what that does.

• 27:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And is that the roughest textured ball you've ever touched?

• 27:35Speaker 04

  It might be.

• 27:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The roughest I've ever seen?

• 27:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 27:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, it feels like what we analogy, not quite like the dimpling on a basketball, but it's a.

• 27:43Chuck Nice?

  It's like ridges.

• 27:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's, it's, it's got a texture. I don't know how else to say it.

• 27:46Speaker 04

  It's, it's rougher, though, than, than a a soccer ball normally is.

• 27:51Gary O'Reilly?

  See, the Brazuka had a texture to it as well, but it had a wavy kind of pattern. If you get this up close, you will see it's got that texture to it, but it is linear. There's no wave in the pattern, so that must, there's no way, because these balls get tested at NASA. There's no way they've put that, oh, we'll just go straight this year and we'll don't worry.

• 28:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, I'll tell you this.

• 28:12Chuck Nice?

  Wait, is this really tested at NASA?

• 28:14Gary O'Reilly?

  Absolutely, yeah. They're tested at Ames.

• 28:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wind tunnels and things. We got this.

• 28:18Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 28:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I don't know if the.

• 28:20Chuck Nice?

  I was just gonna say, I might find a better use for my tax dollars than testing.

• 28:25Gary O'Reilly?

  I think Adidas will have, FIFA, FIFA will have paid for this.

• 28:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so.

• 28:28Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, good hands.

• 28:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Now that, now that I'm looking more closely at this, there are two parallel pan, there's one panel.

• 28:36Gary O'Reilly?

  Like a stripe.

• 28:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But the stripes that go around, it's equator.

• 28:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And above the pole and another one around the pole, so separated by 90 degrees. Exactly. And in there are eight triangles. So I'm, what's, I'm curious if the, if the kickers will be able to find a way to spin the ball such that the parallel panels are operating against the air rather than some other dimension on this. That'll just be, so I'm telling you now, you're a coach? Uh, I was, I was. Oh, not anymore? Oh, okay, okay. But don't worry, the secret's gonna come out. I'm just telling you. I'm gonna go back to playing after all this information. I'm telling you that if the ball spins along with these parallel panels, it will curve differently than if it is not. I'm just telling you that right now. The guys are gonna work this out.

• 29:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, and if you're gonna knuckleball it, uh, watch out where the valve is. And then make that work to your advantage. So, very cool. I can't wait to watch real, real folks play with this. We have a fan!

• 29:35Chuck Nice?

  We're looking forward to an exciting World Cup.

• 29:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I can't wait.

• 29:38Chuck Nice?

  All right, cool. Now, wait, before we go any further.

• 29:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, what do you got?

• 29:40Chuck Nice?

  I got, and this is what I want Neil to talk to, and then we're gonna get off of balls.

• 29:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You say that now.

• 29:49Chuck Nice?

  So I went, I have another, uh, playground. And this is, would be commonly known as a kickball or a dodgeball. And everybody in elementary school knows, like, you know, first of all, listen to the sound. Okay? And then secondly, it's like, super light. And I don't care how you kick this ball, it just kind of floats. So, what's the difference?

• 30:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's lighter.

• 30:15Chuck Nice?

  And that's it?

• 30:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Moving on?

• 30:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, it's not, okay, it's, it's. It's larger? No, it's maybe a little lighter. Yeah, uh, it's, hmm, okay, so here's, here's my analysis. Okay. So, uh, the outer, is it generally leather of some kind of animal? What kind of animal is it? No, it's a synthetic.

• 30:38Gary O'Reilly?

  Product now rather than leather.

• 30:40Speaker 04

  Right, it used to be leather, but now it's synthetic.

• 30:43Gary O'Reilly?

  No, it's synthetic.

• 30:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's all synthetic.

• 30:45Gary O'Reilly?

  Because what you're calling seams, they're all heat sealed.

• 30:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, okay. And so, all right, so we got that. So this leather texture on top of whatever is beneath it, which has a certain thickness to it.

• 30:59Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 31:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That is actually absorbing some of the energy that you kick into this. So when you kick a soccer ball, it is not in physics what we call as elastic a collision as it would encounter as you would if you kick a pure rubber ball.

• 31:13Gary O'Reilly?

  Gotcha.

• 31:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So in other words, if you had a mechanical foot and kicked a soccer ball and then kicked one of your playground balls, the playground will just go further. Because the energy that you put into it is recovered in its velocity. Whereas you kick a soccer ball, the energy that you put into it, some of it goes to the speed, others will get absorbed into the texture of the ball itself. And that's the difference between a baseball, for example, and a Spalding handball. All right? If you drop a baseball and, you know, one will bounce high, the other won't.

• 31:42Gary O'Reilly?

  Right.

• 31:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And the best thing we ever invented happened in my generation, I'll take credit for this, my generation, was we invented the Super Bowl, the Super Bowl. The Super Ball. The Super Ball. That, that, that's, that hard rubber ball that you drop and then it. Yeah, so it will bounce higher than any other sort of commercial ball that is made. And before we had the Super Bowl, there was the movie, remember the Sun, Flubber?

• 32:08Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes, we do Flubber, yes.

• 32:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I wanted to be that professor inventing that product.

• 32:13Gary O'Reilly?

  It's nice to have a dream. Even Neil deGrasse Tyson has a dream. And who knew it was about Flubber?

• 32:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, let me try, let's just drop these and see, I'll drop them at the same time, the same distance and just see. Yeah. So the playground ball bounced higher.

• 32:26Gary O'Reilly?

  To bounce.

• 32:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, the playground ball is continuing to bounce. Yeah, so that, all that means is that the energy you put in it is completely translated into speed. And rather than absorbed into the structure of the ball itself.

• 32:39Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay, before we take a break, Al Echo, your favorite bit of technology that's come into the game since you became a coach, after you finished playing.

• 32:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Which would then affect your management of the team.

• 32:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. GPS, heart monitors, heat tracking.

• 32:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, wait, where are the players going?

• 32:57Gary O'Reilly?

  This isn't during the game.

• 33:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Hey dude, my GPS said you should be in the stadium.

• 33:03Speaker 04

  As a coach, if you can measure how hard someone's working, that's that just gives you added incentive to yell or not yell.

• 33:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, I love the data they now have on how far they've run in a game.

• 33:12Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 33:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Is that is that also a GPS thing or is there some?

• 33:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, I love that.

• 33:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, between Harry monitors and GPS, you're able to at least monitor.

• 33:20Gary O'Reilly?

  You can use that here in the US. You can in MLS, you use that in game.

• 33:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 33:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  MLS, Major League Soccer.

• 33:26Gary O'Reilly?

  Major leagues, thank you. Yes. So in European leagues, you're not allowed to use that because if I think my midfield, my center midfield player, we always pick on them. Isn't working as hard and that's detrimental to my game plan. I can see on the data that that's the case. If if my my eyes might be telling me one thing, but the data confirms that or denies that. So that's that's something that's an added bonus here in the US that we don't have in other European leagues.

• 33:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Why don't you have it in elsewhere?

• 33:53Gary O'Reilly?

  Um, I think they they want to take away the fact that you could have really accurate.

• 33:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Anti-technology.

• 33:58Speaker 04

  They have it.

• 33:59Gary O'Reilly?

  No, no, they're not anti-technology. They just, I just think they're not keen to use it in game, but I think it will be coming.

• 34:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So so suppose I'm just a really efficient player.

• 34:09Speaker 04

  Exactly. You can't you can't measure.

• 34:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Just because my heart rate isn't going up.

• 34:12Chuck Nice?

  Exactly. It's like I'm working just as hard as anybody else. I just make it looky.

• 34:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And I know in advance where the wall's gonna come.

• 34:19Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 34:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I don't have to chase it down. It comes by. I'm there when it got it got to me.

• 34:24Speaker 04

  And there's evidence of of guys working too hard. Hey, I don't need you running this much for no reason without thinking. So there's a fine balance. That's where soccer IQ comes into play where you can't just base it all on numbers. It's more of reaffirmation of what you're already thinking.

• 34:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Soccer IQ, that's sick.

• 34:39Chuck Nice?

  I like that.

• 34:40Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, so with soccer IQ, we will take a break and we'll all be doing questionnaires. And during the break, we'll come back and see which which one of us doesn't have the best soccer IQ. And I'm holding my hand up right now. Right, we'll take that short break. This is playing with science and we'll be back shortly and we might have a special visitor by the sounds of it. Yes.

• 35:03Gary O'Reilly?

  Welcome back to Playing with Science. We're enjoying and exploring science and technology in the beautiful game. So Neil, you've got a question burning inside of you.

• 35:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Totally burning.

• 35:13Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes, go for it.

• 35:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What's, what's up with you people to reinvent the ball every four years? What does that, what does that even mean?

• 35:23Chuck Nice?

  Actually, that's a very good question.

• 35:24Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, I have the answer, but I'm gonna get a Lego go with this.

• 35:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They've been playing football for a very long time. I've never heard anybody go, "Hey, we're going with Nerf this year." Nerf ball, yeah, yeah, American football, right, right. Or baseball, just, "Hey, let's come up with some other shape." "We need more stitches on this ball." Yeah, that, that would be crazy in any other sport. Why is it just a thing you guys do?

• 35:42Speaker 04

  I don't know. I don't know the exact answer, but I think things are always improving. You look at jerseys, for example, jerseys 20 years ago aren't the same as they are now. And with the ball as well, I think there are minor improvements that are made.

• 35:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They just look like random, somebody just dreamt it one night. But I don't, I don't know that they're improvements. They look more like, just simply like changes than improvements.

• 36:02Gary O'Reilly?

  Anyone else wanna sing along with me? "Must be the money."

• 36:05Chuck Nice?

  Oh my god.

• 36:06Gary O'Reilly?

  All right. Selling the ball every four years. We got some commercials. Guy in the front row's going, "I got you."

• 36:14Chuck Nice?

  You know what, Gary, you are absolutely right. And here's why. I just went shopping for soccer balls. And I can't tell you the wall of different soccer balls that I had to navigate in order to figure.

• 36:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So now it's like buying Jell-O in the store.

• 36:29Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 36:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Every flavor.

• 36:30Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, and so there was the, the Messi ball. And there was a World Cup training soccer ball. And there was, um, they, oh, I forget the other one that's, um, oh gosh, it's an MLS ball, but it looks like Jubalani, but it's instead of like the four, it's only got like two little curvy panels. So you're absolutely right. It's a, it makes sense.

• 36:55Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay, so you touched on jerseys. What about the future of jerseys? Where do you think it could go?

• 37:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Are we just talking about clothing here?

• 37:03Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes, uniforms, clothing, what a soccer player's uniform could be like in the future. So before we do that, Ken, because I don't, I'm uninitiated. How have, how have jerseys changed? Okay, so go back many, many years and imagine me as a small child, which is.

• 37:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're still just talking about clothing here.

• 37:18Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 37:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, I thought we were talking about like sports.

• 37:22Gary O'Reilly?

  We're getting there, we're getting there. Clothing as in a soccer uniform, heavy cotton. You sweat and run around and it becomes three pounds heavier if you're lucky. Then you go through some basic.

• 37:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That poundage was in your body to begin with. So you were carrying that weight around at the beginning of the game.

• 37:37Gary O'Reilly?

  But now it's on the outside.

• 37:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But in either case, you weighed that much before. I just want to be clear, that water didn't come from space. Okay.

• 37:45Gary O'Reilly?

  That's true.

• 37:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  When you walked out on the field at the beginning of the game, gee, I have this three pounds on me. Let me get rid of it.

• 37:50Gary O'Reilly?

  Unless it's raining.

• 37:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah. Unless it's raining though.

• 37:53Gary O'Reilly?

  I just got detention, didn't I? I really just got detention. You're just saying it right.

• 37:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Don't run around a sweater and say, oh, now I'm carrying around this heavy thing because it's wet.

• 38:02Gary O'Reilly?

  But the truth is, it feels icky.

• 38:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's icky, it's the ick factor.

• 38:06Gary O'Reilly?

  So you go through nylon and synthetic fabrics and now you get fabrics that breathe.

• 38:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Synthetic.

• 38:10Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes, I know, but then you get synthetic fabrics that are able to develop and it breathes. So it wicks away the sweat that you once had inside that's now outside. Did I say that right? Thank you. So thank you. Moisture wicking. Yeah, so now where are we headed? Where do you think jerseys will go? And we'll kind of sort of pick up some threads.

• 38:26Speaker 04

  Well, I think right now, we were talking a bit about the whole GPS and Harry Potter, that whole piece. At the moment, guys are wearing devices almost in like sports bras and they have it hooked up. If you watch a match right now, if you see guys who have almost a little device sticking out from like the back of their neck or their spine, there are these little GPS devices and that's how.

• 38:46Gary O'Reilly?

  It's about the size of a small cellphone, if you can imagine that. Now, what they're saying now is you're going to get the, the coming forward of intelligent fibre, nanotechnology, where all of that sort of cellphone size equipment that's stuck between your shoulder blades is going to be minimalised into the fabric. Also, while you're watching your favourite team, their uniform will change colour. Imagine that. They have a shirt sponsor, right? Some of the most expensive real estate in the world would be Real Madrid, Barcelona, the big guys. Imagine if they could change as well.

• 39:20Chuck Nice?

  Oh, they already have that. And believe me, that's gonna happen, not just in.

• 39:23Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 39:23Chuck Nice?

  The, the, the sport that is most uniquely suited to have that happen is of course soccer. Uh, but, uh, you, what will happen is it's gonna be like NASCAR. So you know how on NASCAR, you have all these different medallions on the car. So the, they'll, they'll have a band across the shirt and that band will change advertisements during the game.

• 39:47Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 39:47Chuck Nice?

  So, yeah.

• 39:48Gary O'Reilly?

  And if you ever wondered what it's like to be Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Alecko. There'll be cameras in the jersey, the fibers, like fiber optics, right? They will be there. Now the TV companies and the clubs.

• 40:03Chuck Nice?

  Make sure you don't put your shorts on inside out, buddy.

• 40:07Gary O'Reilly?

  So this is, this is now, as a viewer, as a, as a fan.

• 40:13Gary O'Reilly?

  So, so you can imagine as a fan.

• 40:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Camera's pointing the wrong way.

• 40:18Gary O'Reilly?

  You can dial up which player and the cameras you want, or you might have other options where you can have Chuck to wear his shorts inside out. It just depends what you wanna dial up.

• 40:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In the game by the technology of the jersey.

• 40:29Gary O'Reilly?

  Absolutely.

• 40:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, fine. So now I, now I see why we're talking about clothing.

• 40:31Gary O'Reilly?

  Thank you.

• 40:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So would you, will, will players embrace this?

• 40:35Speaker 04

  Uh, probably not, to be honest with you. Um.

• 40:39Gary O'Reilly?

  But do they have a choice? Do they have a choice?

• 40:41Speaker 04

  Well, when it comes to sponsors and all that stuff, probably not. But at the end of the day, as a player, you wanna be as light as possible when you're out there and.

• 40:48Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, these things, I mean, if you think about a, a camera on the side of the field or in the stadium, very different. This is fiber optic.

• 40:54Speaker 04

  Right. But even, even if it's two ounces, players will use as an excuse. So that's why I can make that run.

• 40:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay. So speaking of jerseys, what's this thing where they run off the field and take off their shirt? Like, what is that?

• 41:05Chuck Nice?

  Oh, you wanna score or after? I'd be taking off my shirt in a frozen food section at the shop, right? You kidding me?

• 41:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What, what's up with that?

• 41:13Speaker 04

  With trading jerseys, you mean, at the end of the game?

• 41:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, no.

• 41:16Chuck Nice?

  He means when you score a goal.

• 41:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, what's up with that?

• 41:18Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, that's celebration.

• 41:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 41:19Gary O'Reilly?

  That's, that's you about to get a yellow card. That's, I am so desperate to get a yellow card, I will now run around with my shirt off.

• 41:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Is that a yellow card offense?

• 41:27Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 41:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Really?

• 41:28Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, that's a cheap way to get one.

• 41:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 41:30Gary O'Reilly?

  Really cheap way.

• 41:32Chuck Nice?

  Even if you look like Christian?

• 41:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So that's like the end zone dance, you're not supposed to do that in American football.

• 41:37Chuck Nice?

  See, but they changed that now. Now, now they've encouraged the end zone dance as long as it isn't haunting.

• 41:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Plus, it's only you, you can't get the whole kick line going, right?

• 41:47Chuck Nice?

  Um, actually, you can now. They just changed that rule this year, you know?

• 41:51Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay, so we got the, we get the telemetric data.

• 41:53Chuck Nice?

  And goals don't, I'm sorry, let me just say this, goals do not happen a lot in soccer, damn it. If a guy wants to take off his shirt, he should be able to take off, if he wants to wave his penis at the crowd, he should be able to do it. How often do goals happen?

• 42:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 42:08Chuck Nice?

  That's crazy. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead.

• 42:11Speaker 04

  Now I know why I wanted that camera inside the shirt.

• 42:13Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah. So soccer with a parental guide. So when we get to the telemetrics and we're gonna have this layer in your jersey.

• 42:20Chuck Nice?

  I can't get that image out of my head now.

• 42:21Gary O'Reilly?

  Think harder. So, shouldn't be hard for you. So what are you looking for? What, what are the telemetrics that mean most to you as a coach when you're reading it saying, hey, I like this? What, what really is the most important factors?

• 42:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I think as a coach, the, the one thing, we're talking about the future.

• 42:39Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 42:40Speaker 04

  Injury prevention. That, that to me is, is the, is the biggest thing and that's where I see technology going. And that's what a lot of this data is used for. I know that some of the top clubs in Europe, they monitor down to, uh, the distance cover, the, the toll on the body. And that's what determines whether, hey, we gotta give this guy a, a break next week.

• 42:58Gary O'Reilly?

  Do you have the red flag sort of thing?

• 43:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's, he's got another three games in him at, at this, you know, toll on his body and after that, it might break down.

• 43:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  When it counts your pitches.

• 43:06Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 43:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And they decide when to take you out.

• 43:08Speaker 04

  Right.

• 43:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And when to put you back in the rotation.

• 43:10Speaker 04

  Soccer's so difficult though, because there's so many different variables, because not, any two games are alike. Because, uh, the score changes how much input, uh, you're putting out on the field, the, uh, conditions. Changes, the surface changes. So, you know, if it's a a grass field that doesn't hold the water well and it's raining. Now, after a game, you feel like you played two matches, even though you just played one. So there's a lot of different things that that go into it. And I think collecting all this data will help prevent injuries.

• 43:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So when do the injury acting lessons? When do those get?

• 43:42Chuck Nice?

  Ah, flopping.

• 43:44Speaker 04

  Gamesmanship.

• 43:45Chuck Nice?

  Flopping, I love it.

• 43:47Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, no, that's okay. No, so.

• 43:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Somebody had to go there.

• 43:49Gary O'Reilly?

  No, no, that's fine. So whoever has our Telstar 18, that has been constructed to benefit strikers. Therefore FIFA, the governing, the world governing body are looking to get advantage in or at the feet, I should say, of the strikers. Now, they won't like the flopping aspect of it. So if you flop dramatically and fail to get an Oscar, but should have got an Oscar, right?

• 44:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Flop means fall.

• 44:14Gary O'Reilly?

  For.

• 44:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Faking injury.

• 44:16Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, simulation, as it would be called. Don't be surprised if players get three game bans.

• 44:22Chuck Nice?

  Three game bans?

• 44:23Gary O'Reilly?

  Do it. Now you see how clever you are. Just go draconian, go very hard.

• 44:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I don't know what that means. I'm sorry.

• 44:28Chuck Nice?

  So he's saying that the league should, if you're, if people are flopping, then you get a three game suspension. It's like.

• 44:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, a three game ban?

• 44:37Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 44:37Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 44:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, I thought this was a new thing you wear on your wrist, wristband. A three game ban. No, no, a three game ban.

• 44:43Gary O'Reilly?

  Thank you.

• 44:43Speaker 04

  So, so what's in place right now in in our league in MLS is there's a disciplinary committee where they review all these plays of simulation embellishment. And there's a monetary fine.

• 44:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Simulation embellishment?

• 44:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I like that. You don't want, you can't call it acting.

• 44:58Speaker 04

  Because there's a difference between, yeah, there's, there's a big difference that most people that haven't played don't understand. There's a difference between selling a foul that you've been fouled versus completely faking it and you haven't been touched and you're, you know, trying to fool the referee.

• 45:13Chuck Nice?

  So I guess they would use like, what, instant replay? Because I, I think that's a little dangerous. I mean, if, if, if, if you were fouled, even though you're selling that, I mean, if there was an offense, you should be able to be have that credited.

• 45:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So they're magnifying the.

• 45:28Chuck Nice?

  Right. And that happens in every sport. I mean, I don't care what it is.

• 45:32Speaker 04

  Referees are human.

• 45:32Chuck Nice?

  Referees are human. You see it happen all the time. So I'm just saying, like, how would you go about?

• 45:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  By the way, AI, we can fix that.

• 45:39Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay. Okay.

• 45:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Referees are human. We, we have ways.

• 45:42Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah. Everyone in here has heard of Google specs. Right? Google specs. Google specs.

• 45:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, I haven't. I'm sorry.

• 45:48Gary O'Reilly?

  Google Glass.

• 45:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, specs.

• 45:50Gary O'Reilly?

  Google Glass. So, if the referee's view of an incident is obscured, imagine he's got this very clever eyewear on that dials up immediately, an instant replay, as you called it, Chuck. Instant, instant. Of that, of that same instant from another angle that is very clear, would you be happy with that?

• 46:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I mean, you can't hide an offense.

• 46:10Speaker 04

  Absolutely, absolutely. No, and that's, you know, we're seeing the implementation of video review now, but that's where the game is headed, is human error, whether it's the referee, the assistant referee, the linesman. Uh, that's the difference between winning and losing a game. So if you can help avoid errors made and, and video can come into play, I think everyone is, is all for it as long as it's implemented properly. Because again, there, there's still a human operating, uh, that machinery.

• 46:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But it reduces it.

• 46:37Speaker 04

  It does, it does, but, but things are so subjective where, you know, if, if I see a, there could, we could, you and I could be watching a game. We've both played and there could be a, a, a guy who goes down the box and I might say penalty and he might say, no, it's not a penalty.

• 46:50Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 46:51Speaker 04

  So there's always going to be differing opinions, but at least with video review, um, like you said, it, it eliminates the, the doubt.

• 46:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Could it be that unlike some sports such as baseball, which is still using wood and leather and pine tar? And it's one of the least touched sports by technology. That soccer, because you get a new ball every four years and the rules are just whatever anybody thinks up, uh, to, to, to make the ball.

• 47:18Gary O'Reilly?

  Harsh, harsh.

• 47:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That you might be ripe for a complete technological revolution in the sport.

• 47:26Gary O'Reilly?

  That'd be cool. I can't see a complete technological revolution. I mean, we've got, we now have goal line technology where the goal is inundated with camera.

• 47:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Sensors and things, okay.

• 47:37Gary O'Reilly?

  Camera angles that will, will such high speed. I've, I've read somewhere like 500 frames a second, which is like really complaint. That's blown my head really, but that is definitive. That's within about two or three millimeters accuracy.

• 47:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 47:51Gary O'Reilly?

  So that, that's happening, that, that's the Hawkeye technology.

• 47:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If you have that many frames per second, then each frame essentially stops the ball in midair.

• 48:00Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 48:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And, and at a lower frame rate, it doesn't stop the ball. The ball is blurred and if you're trying to decide whether something crosses the line or doesn't. Or didn't and you have an image of a, if you have a blurred image of the ball, you cannot, you cannot adjudicate that with, with precision. So you need, you need high, you need a high frame rate.

• 48:18Gary O'Reilly?

  Thank you.

• 48:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What?

• 48:19Gary O'Reilly?

  No, no, no, don't, that's, that's beautiful because now I understand exactly why there's 500 frames a second and what the outcome is because you need to know.

• 48:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In the early days of tennis, before we had high frame rate, uh, uh, um, replays and the ball in tennis is going 100 and for men it's 130 miles an hour. So the ball comes down, it bounces so fast and they try to show that in slow motion and the whole bounce is a blur. Everything is a blur and you just, is it? I don't know. Can we?

• 48:45Chuck Nice?

  But without that, we would have never had John McEnroe. Come on!

• 48:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, so technology gets rid of, uh, uh, a-hole behavior.

• 48:55Gary O'Reilly?

  Lekko, is there something that you would like to see change in the game for positive? For both fans and for players or just for fans, whichever way you want to work that?

• 49:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think, I think everyone that plays the game, that watches the game, they, they want to enjoy watching it. So if you can eliminate, like we talked about the, the diving or, uh, the bad calls, the things that people get so infuriated with, uh, I would be all for that. But at the same time, I do, I do enjoy the human aspect of it. I do enjoy that there's going to be curveballs thrown your way that you have to deal with, uh, in the first match or no timeouts.

• 49:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And how has it?

• 49:31Speaker 04

  The game is flowing.

• 49:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh, once they got rid of the, you know, they put in the no tie rule, uh, how's that been going? Where you have the, you swap off kicks?

• 49:39Speaker 04

  Oh, shootout. Well, that's, that's only in, in tournaments. Yeah. In league play, a tie is still a tie.

• 49:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah. Okay. So, so the reason I ask is because of course in hockey, they had a similar issue, low scoring games, tie games.

• 49:52Chuck Nice?

  They had the same thing.

• 49:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Then they invoke shootouts. Was that generally welcomed or not?

• 49:57Speaker 04

  So I, I think in, in soccer and again, I grew up in a soccer family. So I'm, I'm probably a soccer purist. You appreciate a tie. If you're playing against a tough team on the road, and you bunker down and you put in a solid effort to shut them down, and they don't beat you, that's a well deserved point.

• 50:16Chuck Nice?

  See, and that's why soccer is not as popular in America. Because we are like, you did not win.

• 50:25Gary O'Reilly?

  So the logic, do you know the way the coaches apply the logic?

• 50:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The best headline ever was when they ended the All-Star game in a tie. And was it the New York Post? They said, there's no tying in baseball.

• 50:39Chuck Nice?

  There's no tying in baseball.

• 50:40Gary O'Reilly?

  So the logic is, we didn't lose the game, we lost the penalty shootout. And that's how coaches put a positive spin to keep the morale of the team unit together.

• 50:51Speaker 04

  Well, a penalty shootout's a coin toss, to be honest with you.

• 50:54Gary O'Reilly?

  Well, no, there is science, but that's another show. That's a whole new show. Guys, that's it for us, Playing with Science. And the science and technology.

• 51:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Why do we talk so much? Let the man speak more.

• 51:07Gary O'Reilly?

  My fault.

• 51:08Chuck Nice?

  Now we can have him back.

• 51:09Gary O'Reilly?

  Exactly.

• 51:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah. Oh, because you're just across the moat.

• 51:12Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 51:13Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 51:14Gary O'Reilly?

  All right. So that's it, that's it for us. Thank you to our audience, it's been fabulous.

• 51:18Chuck Nice?

  Thank you, guys.

• 51:19Gary O'Reilly?

  Thank you to Alecko, Eskandarian, to Neil deGrasse Tyson, the good Dr Neil deGrasse Tyson, of course, from Gary O'Reilly, myself, and Chuck Nice, this has been Playing with Science. We look forward to your company soon.