#ICYMI - NFL Fitness and Nutrition (Repeat)

Chuck and Gary get schooled by the men who optimize player performance for the pros: Glen Tobias of the NY Jets, and Dave Puloka and Wayne Diesel of the Miami Dolphins. Neil Tyson interviews quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick and former players John Urschel and Terry Crews. Don’t miss an episode of Playing with Science. Subscribe to our channels on: Apple Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/playing-with-science/id1198280360?mt=2 GooglePlay Music: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Iimke5bwpoh2nb25swchmw6kzjq SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/startalk_playing-with-science Stitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/startalk/playing-with-science TuneIn: http://www.tunein.com/playingwithscience NOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch/listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/nfl-fitness-and-nutrition/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:11Speaker 00

  I'm Gary O'Reilly

• 0:12Speaker 01

  And I'm Chuck Nice

• 0:13Speaker 00

  And this is Playing with Science Today, we serve up the NFL's take on sports nutrition and conditioning with the Manhattan Sports Medicine, New York Jets and Boston Red Sox nutritionist Glenn Tobias, Miami Dolphins strength and conditioning coach Tav Belukah, and sports performance director Wayne Diesel.

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, and we're also going to deliberately sprinkle in some tasty morsels from Jets quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick, Ravens offensive lineman John Herschel, and former Rams and Redskins star, now actor Terry Crews, all cooked up to perfection, you see what I'm doing here?

• 0:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 0:50Speaker 01

  You see what I'm doing here? By our own master chef, Neil deGrasse Tyson.

• 0:54Speaker 00

  But don't worry, if you think you couldn't possibly digest all of that in one sitting, we on Playing with Science, guarantee, totally guarantee, it is calorie free.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  And we're going to start with those references right now, because

• 1:08Speaker 00

  We're hungry.

• 1:09Speaker 01

  We're probably freaking him out with these little references. Joining us in studio today, Glenn Tobias, hey man, how's it going? Very good, thank you, thank you for having me here. Hey, thanks for being here.

• 1:18Speaker 00

  Oh, pleasure Glenn, thank you.

• 1:19Speaker 01

  You know, before we get going Glenn, you know, one of the things we always do with the show is we start off with a clip that kind of demonstrates what we're talking about for the topic of the day. And so, we've chosen something very special, we've got two clips back to back, and it's kind of a look at how the athlete has changed over the years, and then we'll talk about how nutrition has played a part in that. So, let's take a look at the first clip, which is the Atlanta Falcons playing the Dallas Cowboys, and the quarterback throws over the middle to the tight end, and this play looks like it takes forever. Go ahead and cue that up.

• 1:56Speaker 00

  Go ahead and.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  So here they are in this set and it's a fake to the fullback.

• 2:03Speaker 00

  Randy Johnson.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  And there it is, Johnson. Tight end now has the ball. And looks like he's taking a stroll.

• 2:08Speaker 00

  Thirty-four yards. It's hard to believe that this tape has not been doctored because they look as if they're moving so slowly.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a 34-yard play and the tight end feels like he took like a minute to run 34 yards. And now here they are from a different angle and as you can see, the play's unfolding. Here's the ball over the middle, tight end has it, he's, and I mean, this guy looks like he is putting every effort possible. He's huffing.

• 2:38Speaker 02

  And still it looks like, it looks like they're swimming through pea soup.

• 2:43Speaker 00

  It's funny, at ground level, he will have the feeling that he is traveling at the speed of light.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  Exactly, and you would think, right, when you're on ground level, right Gary, you would think the play would look even faster because you're seeing it from that vantage point. All right, so now, let's take a look at the second clip Glenn, and this, I believe it's Detroit Lions and it's an end zone to end zone play to Megatron, need I say more, let's cue that and see what we got.

• 3:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The Lions now, near the back of their own end zone. Not good. Dangerous territory for Dan Orlovsky.

• 3:20Speaker 00

  Now this, this clip looks like it's on fast forward compared to the other.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Calvin Johnson, right, Megatron, and now.

• 3:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And finally they find the big man who has it for six.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  Now, did you see that? The whole play took like seven seconds. So the one play, it takes a guy like 10 seconds for the play to unfold and it's a 34-yard play over the middle. Here is end zone to end zone, the whole thing takes eight seconds. And it's a touchdown to Calvin Johnson, Megatron.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  Moving a lot faster.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  Moving, and so.

• 3:51Speaker 02

  A lot faster.

• 3:52Speaker 01

  This is what has happened.

• 3:53Speaker 00

  Where does that come from? I know, is it because athletes are more powerful now or because there's a whole construction behind the evolution of football playing?

• 4:01Speaker 02

  Absolutely, I mean, you have to think that nutrition is the energy in and it's a 24-hour game, whereas when you're practicing and you're on a field, whether it be baseball or football or what have you. You're putting in the effort at that time, but now really the nutrition aspect is all the time and you fuel the machine better, you get better output and that's a prime example.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  That's funny, so now when you are, because you're playing with, playing with, you're working with.

• 4:31Speaker 00

  Sometimes it's fun.

• 4:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 4:35Speaker 02

  It's always fun.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  But you're working with professional baseball players and professional football players. Is there a difference in the approach to nutrition for different sports?

• 4:50Speaker 02

  I think for all sports, you're just really working with the athlete and depending on what their needs are, their age is a big component.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  Their height, their weight, what position they play at what sport. So everything, what country they're from, what part of this country they're from.

• 5:09Speaker 00

  So it's a whole cultural thing, holistic?

• 5:12Speaker 02

  Everything, because what your grandma made you when you were little makes you feel comfortable and warm and fuzzy, you're gonna always go to that.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  Now I can't stop thinking about my grandma.

• 5:21Speaker 00

  You take a trip down memory lane, we are gonna catch up with Neil deGrasse Tyson and see what else he had to say with Jets quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick, let's check it out.

• 5:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In football, other than what may have been developments in equipment, do you see any other ways that science has touched the game since you first came out of college back in 05, so it's now 11 years, what have you seen? How about in training as well, I mean just nutrition?

• 5:49Speaker 04

  That's probably the biggest advancement, I, you know, I'm 12 years in now and...

• 5:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're an old timer, right, 12 years?

• 5:56Speaker 04

  I'm the oldest guy on the team.

• 5:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You have to sound exasperated.

• 6:00Speaker 04

  Oh my god. But I mean, these guys now, the way that you are taught to take care of your body, all the different people that are on staff to help us, whether it's a team nutritionist or not just one strength coach, but very specific strength coaches based on your position and what you're doing, it definitely, they've got it tailored down to a science now and for me like, you know, I don't know, I like to go eat a cheeseburger and fries, you know, but that's not acceptable anymore. You know, these guys are fueling their bodies and already world-class athletes, but even honing it in that much more, you know, one thing that we do that didn't really exist when I came into

• 6:44Speaker 04

  the league, there's a thing called a bod pod and you sit in and it gives you an accurate assessment of your body fat percentage. And so, you know, I'm thirty-four years old, I'm, I'm kind of on the tail end. So that's like a death march for me to have to go step into the bod pod and see how fat I've become.

• 7:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because the hamburger you ate last night, that shows up like right, right.

• 7:04Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 7:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There's a hamburger right there.

• 7:08Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Wow. Busted. Yeah, exactly. In front of the nutritionist. Right in front of the nutritionist. But, but it's funny, you guys actually started talking in the same terms when he was talking about these world-class athletes who are fueling their bodies. Correct. So is this more of a life philosophy that you have to adopt when you're a player?

• 7:31Speaker 02

  It goes more into being a professional. There, I have high school students I work with collegiate and then professional. The, the more you get into it, the more you get into it and the more, the longer you want to stay doing it. If that's your livelihood, then there is really less of an off-season, if you will.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  Irrelevant of sport.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Gotcha.

• 7:49Speaker 00

  There is no off-season.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  There's no off-season.

• 7:51Speaker 02

  You're always training. You're always trying to get better.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:53Speaker 02

  Always fueling.

• 7:54Speaker 00

  So what's been the biggest breakthrough in nutrition in the last, say, ten, fifteen years? Because that clip we, we saw then from nineteen sixty-six.

• 8:04Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 8:05Speaker 00

  I mean, the knowledge then as opposed to the knowledge in the eighties and the eighties to now.

• 8:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 8:10Speaker 00

  Must be a gulf, or is there?

• 8:11Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, there's definitely advancements. I mean, years ago, the guys would eat, you know, steak and eggs and that was.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  That's what they ate and they ate as much of it as they could. Now it's about timing.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  Really?

• 8:22Speaker 02

  It's about balancing of the meal, protein, fat and carb ratios. It's about supplementation. It's about a whole, you're taking sleep. Hydration.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Yes, so now those are two diff- and so now you consider that part of nutrition then?

• 8:35Speaker 02

  Absolutely, I-

• 8:35Speaker 01

  Because this is one of the biggest, um, I won't say, it's not a controversy, we know now that sleep is extremely important, but-

• 8:41Speaker 02

  It's critical.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  As, as we have done more and more, um, studies on sleep, you see increased performance-

• 8:48Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Uh, so is there, can, can, can it go too far? Can I sleep too much? And say like-

• 8:54Speaker 02

  Do anything too much.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  You can.

• 8:55Speaker 02

  You can ruin a good thing always.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  But in general, if you're not sleeping enough, uh, you're, you know, your testosterone levels can drop.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 9:02Speaker 02

  Uh, you're not gonna be able to function properly, so you can't be optimal. There's a big difference between survival and optimization in an athlete.

• 9:09Speaker 00

  So if I've got sleep deprivation, we'll go that far and call it that, you turn, and I come to you and say, hey, I'm not sleeping as well as I should-

• 9:17Speaker 02

  As a professional-

• 9:18Speaker 00

  As a professional athlete.

• 9:19Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 9:20Speaker 00

  Is there a series of foodstuffs that you, that you say have these, these and these?

• 9:25Speaker 02

  I know, I know where you're going, but I'll actually back it out and say, what time are you off of your iPhone?

• 9:31Speaker 01

  Right, cuz that's probably a-

• 9:32Speaker 02

  Light blasting in your face, and then you're gonna try to go to sleep and you can't, and then you're gonna wonder why. So there's so much involved. I'm not gonna go with a quick fix food for you, but-

• 9:41Speaker 01

  But could there be dietary, uh, contributions to sleep depre- uh, to insomnia? Like for instance, uh, I can't drink coffee after three o'clock in the afternoon. I, and, and I don't know why, but if I have a cup of coffee at three o'clock, I am not going to bed until 2 a.m. That's all there is to it, unless I take something-

• 9:59Speaker 02

  You also just said that, so you're making it so.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  Really?

• 10:01Speaker 02

  It's a big part of it too.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  Do you think so?

• 10:03Speaker 02

  Absolutely, absolutely. If you say it, it is. So I would say that's probably not the case, but I don't really recommend anybody to drink, uh, a lot of caffeine.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  Is it the adrenal gland fatigue and just different things that can happen?

• 10:15Speaker 00

  Is it melatonin?

• 10:16Speaker 02

  Melatonin.

• 10:17Speaker 00

  You can find in some sort of cherries that-

• 10:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. Tart cherry juice, yes.

• 10:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:21Speaker 02

  Natural melatonin, very powerful anti-inflammatory, great for athletes.

• 10:24Speaker 00

  How mu- how, okay, so how much of what we put in our bodies as everyday human beings or elite athletes, can you, as a nutritionist, affect by planting seeds like, you know what, how much time you're spending on your phone, and if you say it's so, it's so? The mental aspect of the, the, the diet, the nutrition?

• 10:44Speaker 01

  Mental nutrition.

• 10:45Speaker 02

  Well, mental nutrition's everything, because when, when you don't feel well, what do you wanna eat?

• 10:50Speaker 01

  I want to know, I want to eat terrible stuff.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  Right, you just when you're at home and it's snowing.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  Yes, ice cream and cookies.

• 10:57Speaker 02

  Sure, just that makes you feel good.

• 10:59Speaker 01

  But in my mind, it's snowing all the time.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  It's a blizzard in this room. God, I want some cookies.

• 11:05Speaker 00

  Cheer up.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  Now, the mental game is huge because you have to take the deliciousness out of the equation, if you will, as a professional. If you want to stay a professional and you want to leave when you're ready to leave and you want to avoid as many injuries as possible, then fueling is critical because the better you fuel, the better you will perform.

• 11:26Speaker 00

  In your work with, in your work with the Jets, um, is it just a broad spectrum of food stuffs that, hey, guys, lunchtime, go and fill up, or do you specifically tailor diets according to position?

• 11:41Speaker 01

  Well, good man, I was just about to, how do you personalize?

• 11:44Speaker 02

  It's, it's.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  Do you personalize for individual players?

• 11:47Speaker 02

  I personalize it for any of the professional athletes that I work with.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 11:52Speaker 00

  That's a lot of work.

• 11:53Speaker 02

  It is, but everybody's different. Like I said earlier, what part of this country did you come from or what other country did you come from?

• 12:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:00Speaker 02

  Matters. That's going to be the food choices that you're going to pick.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:03Speaker 02

  When I'm not with you.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Now, is that because you want to show somebody a smart way to make food choices? Because like for instance, let's just say, mm, I love pierogies, okay, right?

• 12:15Speaker 02

  Who doesn't? I post it with potato.

• 12:17Speaker 00

  Right, over the top.

• 12:18Speaker 02

  It's pasta stuffed with potato.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:21Speaker 02

  And deliciousness.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  I grew up eating pierogies, okay?

• 12:25Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  Now, you know that when I'm not with Glenn Tobias, my nutritionist, I am scarfing down some pierogies.

• 12:33Speaker 02

  I will show you how to eat pierogies every day that fits into our programming for your goals. And I can't tell you, you can't eat them because as an adult, do you like to be told what to do? Does anybody like to?

• 12:45Speaker 01

  No. How much am I paying by the hour?

• 12:47Speaker 02

  There you go. And but then, but then you get to leave her. But the point is, no one likes to be told and if I tell you, you're not going to want to stick with that. So I make deals with, with all the people that I work with, all the athletes. I make deals. So if you can have a couple of pierogi every day, is that good?

• 13:03Speaker 01

  I guess it is.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  There you go. So now use that as a carb and that's your starch for the meal.

• 13:08Speaker 00

  Here's a thought for you, Glenn. Have you come across any of the elite athletes? Who have allergies.

• 13:15Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 13:15Speaker 00

  That really create a barrier to what they need to achieve in their nutrition and their daily diet.

• 13:23Speaker 02

  Allergies, yes. A barrier, no. That's what I do is I see what your issues are.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  And then you get by, get beyond them.

• 13:29Speaker 02

  Move right around.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  Right. So here's another question, which, okay, may be a little silly, but now that you brought up allergies. Have you ever had the knowledge of a player on an opposite team having allergies? And then weaponized food, like sent him a little peanut butter and jelly sandwich, like that guy's not playing today.

• 13:49Speaker 00

  Where has your mind gone?

• 13:51Speaker 02

  That's a great question.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:52Speaker 02

  I have never weaponized food.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm just saying.

• 13:58Speaker 00

  As opposed to throwing a sandwich at somebody.

• 14:00Speaker 02

  When you're angry, you just throw whatever's around. I get that. No, but.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  I'm just saying, you might want to think about it. Might want to think about it. You know what I mean?

• 14:05Speaker 02

  I'll put that down. Thank you.

• 14:06Speaker 00

  Is there, is there a sort of training week strategy for nutrition with your players?

• 14:12Speaker 02

  Training week?

• 14:12Speaker 00

  Yeah. So from post game, the day after a game, come in and up until the day before it's standardized.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. Should I eat something different?

• 14:20Speaker 00

  A game build up.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  Like after the game, should I eat something different now that I've spent myself and I've been beat up all?

• 14:26Speaker 02

  Absolutely. You're gonna want to definitely eat a lot more carbohydrates than most people think. Cause you have to replace the glycogen that your muscles just expend. So just spent. So then you also want a nice, high quality protein as well.

• 14:39Speaker 00

  G, G I carbs?

• 14:41Speaker 02

  Glycemic index.

• 14:42Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Right.

• 14:43Speaker 00

  So.

• 14:44Speaker 02

  I don't deal with glycemic index and I'll tell you why.

• 14:46Speaker 00

  Please do.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 14:47Speaker 02

  Nobody eats one food at one time. And that's what the glycemic index is about.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 14:51Speaker 02

  I deal with glycemic load. How does that meal?

• 14:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  Effect.

• 14:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  The insulin response.

• 14:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  Because you eat meals, correct?

• 14:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 14:59Speaker 02

  Everybody does. No one eats one thing.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  All right. So let's talk about that with respect to recovery then.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  All right. So here I am, Gary brought up training. So it's my weight day. I'm in, I'm.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  Working out.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  I'm working out. Okay. Um, so now what do you do for something like that as opposed to the day, game day?

• 15:17Speaker 02

  Here's a good, great question for you guys real quick.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 15:20Speaker 02

  What's the most important meal of the day?

• 15:22Speaker 00

  Breakfast.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Say breakfast.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  Don't say breakfast? Okay. How about brunch? Because it's fabulous. All right. I'm, I'm sorry about that.

• 15:30Speaker 02

  It's all right.

• 15:33Speaker 00

  Because we betrayed our ignorance and put us out of our misery.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  Wait, no, I just want to keep guessing meals now. Is it snack time?

• 15:41Speaker 02

  No, I don't use the word snack actually in any of my practices.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  Alright, come on, let's go with it then.

• 15:46Speaker 02

  The most important meal of the day is the meal you have immediately following your workout, your game, your practice. That's, you have to replete what you just depleted.

• 15:55Speaker 00

  When you say directly after, is there a time limit?

• 16:00Speaker 02

  As fast as you can.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  As fast as you can do it.

• 16:01Speaker 00

  See, if I've exercised, the last thing I want to do is sit down and look at a meal.

• 16:06Speaker 02

  You don't have to, I can have a shake.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  Get a shake, but what you want to do is replenish is what you're saying, immediately.

• 16:12Speaker 02

  For recovery purposes.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  And so this is, this is just for everybody, this is just for athletes.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  If you go to the gym once, twice a week, right after you go.

• 16:19Speaker 00

  Is there a standard balance to what would be in that shake?

• 16:23Speaker 02

  Um, I definitely want a carbohydrate, a sugar would be good. Everyone demonizes sugar right now, it's because they're eating Skittles all day, but sugar post-workout is critical. Um, and then you want a high-quality protein, such as a whey or something like that.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  Whey protein shakes.

• 16:37Speaker 00

  How about in-game nutrition?

• 16:40Speaker 02

  In-game nutrition is...

• 16:41Speaker 00

  So, at the moment, a lot of guys in Europe use these energy gels.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  The gus and the...

• 16:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure.

• 16:46Speaker 00

  So, I mean, that's unheard of.

• 16:49Speaker 02

  Why?

• 16:49Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, for those who don't...

• 16:50Speaker 00

  In terms of how many years ago, since when, for me, that's a very new development in terms of gel technology into a nutritious supplement.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  Alright, so for those who are uninitiated, because you guys are talking about something that maybe people don't know, tell us about the goo and how it's used.

• 17:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's just like, it's a sugar that comes in a pouch or a packet that's thick. It was really designed for triathletes and bicycle, endurance bicycle riders, so they can just squirt it kind of while they're pedaling and not have to stop.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  If you will, but there's a lot of research and a lot of money being put into in-game nutrition because that's where the athlete makes his or her living.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  So that's where the rubber meets the road.

• 17:34Speaker 00

  So, I mean, we can, we can do it in terms of the analysis with the bio-data you get from all the technology that's available. And you'll, you'll quite happily work out the guy in the first quarter is a lot more effective than in the fourth quarter because his energy levels are depleted.

• 17:50Speaker 02

  And dehydrated.

• 17:51Speaker 00

  Right, so now you're saying...

• 17:53Speaker 01

  The coaching staff, the sports scientists behind the team have worked this out and are helping remain, that athlete remain at a right level.

• 18:03Speaker 02

  Moving from the survival to more towards optimal. Think of hunger and thirst.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 18:08Speaker 02

  If the athlete gets hungry or thirsty, it's already a problem.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  Think of hunger and thirst like the smoke detector at your house. If the smoke detector's going off, you already have a problem.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  Gotcha.

• 18:18Speaker 02

  So if you're hungry or thirsty, I made a mistake.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  Right, cuz that's, you're supposed to avoid those.

• 18:23Speaker 02

  I wanna avoid it at all costs. So you said after a workout, you don't feel like eating.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  Uh, my expression would be to everyone, uh, I love you and I don't care.

• 18:31Speaker 01

  Tough love.

• 18:32Speaker 02

  You have to eat.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:33Speaker 02

  You have to refuel. You can't race a car without putting gas in the tank.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Wow, that's super cool. Well, speaking of, um, fueling and, and, and, and that, we have a clip of where Neil talks to Terry Crews, who of course you know Terry was a former NFL player. And, uh, Terry is still a bodybuilder and, uh, and, and a fitness enthusiast. So let's hear what he has to say.

• 18:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's one thing to lift weights, but what are you putting in your mouth?

• 19:00Speaker 05

  Oh, man, super high protein.

• 19:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  High protein.

• 19:03Speaker 05

  High protein diet.

• 19:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:04Speaker 05

  Uh, low carb.

• 19:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:06Speaker 05

  And lots of fruits and vegetables, lots of, I do lots of protein, meat. I'm, I'm a big carnivore.

• 19:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:14Speaker 05

  That's one of the things, I know people wanna go vegan.

• 19:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, people.

• 19:17Speaker 05

  Not me.

• 19:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And you know, they're gonna get, you know, they'll talk about you.

• 19:19Speaker 05

  I've had some delicious vegan meals.

• 19:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:23Speaker 05

  After a steak.

• 19:25Speaker 05

  I, you know, delicious vegan side dish next to the most awesome chicken breast I've ever had. Uh, and I have to dog them out, but they did.

• 19:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I eat vegan all the time. After my T-bone steak.

• 19:40Speaker 05

  But it's starting to get really like, okay, you're, I'm like, okay, anytime that finger's pointing, all right, come on, guys, just relax.

• 19:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, it becomes a whole other.

• 19:48Speaker 05

  Relax, I didn't, you know, I, I, I, I just need the protein.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  Uh, two things there. One, uh, you know, a lot of people are vegans and sports, uh, athletes or that lot. You know, from weightlifters to NFL players to you name it, but that seems to be a bit of an old school approach to nutrition. He's like, high, high protein, low carbs.

• 20:14Speaker 02

  But he's not low carb. What he meant is he's low starch.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:18Speaker 02

  Cause he eats a lot of fruits and vegetables and fruits and vegetables are all carbs, all carbs.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  Those are carbs.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  Right. So he's just not having a lot of rice, pasta, potato and bread.

• 20:25Speaker 01

  So is, so is that, is that kind of like how we've changed? We don't realize that we've, uh, we really haven't changed what, what is the prescription? We've changed the way we talk about the prescription.

• 20:36Speaker 02

  A certain extent, but he is also more, you know, he acts now and he needs to have his body look a certain way.

• 20:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:42Speaker 02

  He's not eating like an athlete any longer.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 20:45Speaker 02

  Whereas an athlete would have much more starch requirements.

• 20:48Speaker 00

  Could I run a whole team on a vegan diet?

• 20:54Speaker 02

  Could you?

• 20:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:55Speaker 02

  You could, you can.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:56Speaker 02

  It was a short and sweet of it. You can.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  You can. And by the way, they'd probably be the meanest team ever because they'd be so mad that you're making them eat a vegan diet. They would destroy their opponents.

• 21:06Speaker 02

  Or just tired because they didn't eat.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  You look across that offensive line and what you see is a piece of chicken. Now go get it.

• 21:15Speaker 02

  And they will.

• 21:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  So you can, I mean, I don't know if I would recommend that.

• 21:20Speaker 00

  Hmm. No, I was just wondering with the, the way people are addressing their food intake now. And they're going more towards the vegan end of the spectrum.

• 21:29Speaker 02

  Some could well happen. Some are.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  Some are.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  Not, not, not a lot.

• 21:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. And what do you think about veganism, uh, as a, uh, as a, I'll say a routine for?

• 21:40Speaker 02

  If you like that and you feel better that way and you'll continue eating that way. It can be great, but you can also, you can put on excess body fat eating vegan.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  So it's not, you're gonna be lean.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  So you gotta do it the right way, is basically, no matter what you do.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  You really do.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  You gotta do it the right way.

• 21:55Speaker 02

  You know, everybody knows how to eat. You know, I've been doing this for 24 years professionally, but everybody knows how to eat.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:00Speaker 02

  And they come in, "Oh, I already know how to eat." I say, "Thank God," because we don't have to go over how to use a fork and knife.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  And then they're like, "I can't believe I just said I know how to eat." But the thing is, you have to gain muscle.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:10Speaker 02

  To burn fat. Most people want to lose fat. So fat's like the bricks in the trunk of the car you're racing. And the muscle is like having a bigger engine.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Gotcha.

• 22:17Speaker 02

  So everyone wants the bigger engine, unless bricks in the trunk. So what we have to do is, another expression is, you know, the plant only grows as big as the pot that it's in.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:26Speaker 02

  So I have to feed you more, so you can build more muscle, so you can burn more fat. So if you're looking to lose the 10 pounds, first of all, you don't. You want to lose body fat. You don't want to lose weight.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:36Speaker 02

  Nobody really wants to lose weight, athlete, depending on what their position may be. They have to be a certain weight, but if you can stay the same weight, but lose five pounds of fat and gain five pounds of lean body mass, you look and feel very gold.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  You're golden.

• 22:51Speaker 02

  So stop weighing yourself. Because what are you weighing? Drink a gallon of water and don't, don't go to the restroom. What happens? You gain eight pounds. You're miserable. You're gonna explode. But you gain eight pounds. You're not eight pounds fatter. So what are you weighing?

• 23:03Speaker 01

  There you go. All right. Well, everybody should feel better about that. Stop weighing yourselves, people. Get off that scale and start eating more. Yeah. All right. I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just saying words.

• 23:13Speaker 02

  Sounds good.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  Hey, man, thanks so much for joining us.

• 23:16Speaker 02

  My pleasure.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  This was, uh, uh, you gotta come back.

• 23:20Speaker 02

  Anytime.

• 23:20Speaker 00

  Cool. Look forward to that. That'd be good.

• 23:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:22Speaker 00

  Nice. Right. We are going to take our first break. Up next, we'll explore the latest advances in strength training and conditioning. Thank you, of course, to Glenn Tobias. And when we come back, we're playing with science. We'll be talking to people from the Miami Dolphins, so do not go away.

• 23:42Speaker 00

  Welcome back, I'm Gary O'Reilly.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  And I'm Chuck Nice.

• 23:45Speaker 00

  And this, of course, is Playing with Science. Today, we're exploring the NFL's take on sports nutrition, conditioning, recovery, fitness, if you wish to call it that. And now, I think we'll dig into the latest advances in strength and training conditioning. But before we do, I think we ought to get a little clip again from Neil deGrasse Tyson and his interview with John Urschel, the offensive lineman from the Baltimore Ravens.

• 24:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're 25 now and you're packing 300 pounds?

• 24:14Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's right.

• 24:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Man, you guys today are out of control.

• 24:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In the old days, 300 pounds looked really rotund. You know, these guys, they were just, they were out there to just not, just to get in people's way, not to actually be nimble. So, what's going on? I mean, in terms of training, what's different between today and like 30 years ago?

• 24:37Speaker 06

  I think it's better nutrition, just better information about training. And also, the game's different. Guys are bigger. I mean, I'm 310 pounds and I'm on the smaller side when it comes to offensive linemen.

• 24:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wow.

• 24:52Speaker 00

  310 and he's small.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  I'm a little guy at 310 pounds of muscle.

• 24:57Speaker 00

  Okay, so our guest now, and welcome to them, is Dave Paluca, head strengths and conditioning coach, Miami Dolphins. And next to him, Wayne Diesel, sports performance director of the Miami Dolphins. Gentlemen, congratulations to your post and welcome to Playing with Science.

• 25:13Speaker 07

  Yeah, good afternoon.

• 25:15Speaker 00

  Good afternoon. Right, you heard John Urschel there talking about how guys are getting bigger. So, how do you make your guys bigger without, as Neil termed it, making them rotund?

• 25:28Speaker 08

  Well, a lot of that is through nutrition.

• 25:33Speaker 08

  And so, but it's also through training as well.

• 25:37Speaker 08

  You know, obviously, football is, is a game where you want to be big, strong and fast, but it's not always the answer to just make everybody bigger. Because you don't want to sacrifice athletic qualities, you don't want to sacrifice their ability to move. So, it's really kind of about assessing them, seeing where each player's at, and then coming up with a plan for whether or not we want to get them big.

• 26:03Speaker 08

  Maintain or maybe they need to lose weight, you know, often times it's it's about improving their body composition, it's not just about adding muscle mass.

• 26:10Speaker 00

  What's the most frequent request you get from guys, is it size or is it make me faster?

• 26:16Speaker 08

  It depends on who you're talking to, you know, our skill, our skill position guys, receivers, DBs, sometimes they want to get bigger, but usually they're more concerned with speed. Now, obviously, they wouldn't be if they weren't already fast.

• 26:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:28Speaker 08

  So, you know, jobs at this level, it's not, you know, if we were back in high school or in college, we're really trying to develop

• 26:39Speaker 08

  getting gaining size or getting faster, that's one thing, but by the time they reach us, a lot of it is keeping them healthy, making sure that they can perform at a high level every Sunday. So, for some guys, that might mean putting on some lean mass in the off-season, but for a lot of guys, it just might, it might mean we need to improve their ankle mobility. We need to improve their ability to to control their posture and their core musculature. We might be asking them to improve their shoulder mobility. So, there's lots of aspects of performance, it's not simply just putting on muscle mass, although that can be a goal for some guys.

• 27:14Speaker 07

  When people talk about fast, we need to be clear what we mean by fast. Is it fast in a marathon sense? Is it fast for a sprinter? Is it someone that can decelerate, some acceleration, some explosive power? So, we need to understand what component is important and obviously for the position that they're playing. So, we want to look at and breaking that fast, that speed component down into acceleration, deceleration, and obviously top end speed, where a lot of the players aren't ever going to get to the top end speed, but they need to be explosive.

• 27:47Speaker 00

  So, this is a really fine detail program that you work with on each and every one of your players then, as requires their position and the nature of the disciplines that they have to execute every time?

• 28:02Speaker 07

  That's correct. So what we'll try and do from my sports science side of it, we'll try and institute protocols where we can track their speed, their explosive, their accelerations, decelerations. Then Dave, on the other hand, he's responsible for implementing programs to make that, analyzing the results of the players, what the, how many explosive movements that they have. Are they quick enough in that particular sport? Can they accelerate? Can they decelerate? To then make sure that we provide enough stimulus through their practice, so that when they get into a game that demands X number of accelerations, decelerations, explosive movements, that they are able to cope with that demand.

• 28:44Speaker 00

  But for that to happen, you have to have a lot of data. Where, I mean, are you using a lot of technology to accrue this bio data? Or are you just using your own eyesight to look at the guys while they work?

• 28:54Speaker 07

  A bit of both, exactly right. We will have tracking devices that the players wear during practices and they actually do wear it during games as well. So we can then interpret some of the, the movement, the speeds, the distances covered, the accelerations, the decelerations, all those metrics that I discussed earlier, those are available to us. And it's, again, it's like everything else. It's how you interpret it, how you put that together in order to make me, there's a lot of information and you've just got to be careful that you don't then become the tail that wags a dog and then you start dictating it based on some of the metrics. Because the, the obvious thing is that in certain positions, players

• 29:36Speaker 07

  are going to run less than in other positions, for example. So you can't just using how much a player runs is whether or not they're a good player or not. They could be running around down a blind alley and be totally ineffective, where someone else understands the game a lot better, runs less, and is actually the better player. So you know, you need a bit of both. You need the ice, and you obviously need the stats to back it up, but it should be that way around, rather than the stats trying to dictate what's going on.

• 30:02Speaker 01

  So let me ask you, Dave, how do you, when you're designing a program for a player, and now Wayne, you're observing that player, when do you know you have optimized the workout where the player's not overtraining, so that you don't see a decrease in performance because they did too much in the actual training?

• 30:25Speaker 08

  You know, training is all about applying stress at the right times, you know, seeing how they adapt to that stress, and then, and then creating or adapting your program as needed. So in other words, if a guy's not doing enough, we can apply more stress. If a guy's doing too much, we can back off a little bit. So that, that's, that's kind of the crux of it right there. You know, as Wayne was kind of alluding to, you know, we've got, you know, in the offseason 90 players, and in season we've got 53, plus our practice squad of 10 guys. Everyone's different. So if you apply the same stress to all, every 90 guys or 63 guys that's on the team, everyone's going to adapt at a different rate.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:04Speaker 08

  And it's some guys that might be too much, some guys that might be too little, for some guys that might be just right. So the job of the sports science department and, and the monitoring process is to kind of assess which guys are, are getting too much, too little, and who's just right, and then tweaking the application of that stress, whether it be at practice, whether it be in the weight room, so that they can be ready to play on Sunday, or, or our practice squad guys don't play, so they're ready for our hardest practice on Wednesday and Thursday.

• 31:35Speaker 07

  And that's, that, that's the hard part of this, is where Dave's exactly right, that we're not all born the same. Not everyone is. They're actually not the same age, they don't have the same fitness. So the tough part for coaches is to customise programmes, training programmes, that is going to not just look after their very best, but also protect the ones that are maybe weaker in the physical sense. The problem with that is that a lot of programmes ultimately fall down to the lowest common denominator because they don't want to injure everyone. So what we're finding is that the really elite players aren't getting stimulated or stressed enough. And that's where we will come in. So instead of always looking about the injuries, we're

• 32:18Speaker 07

  looking at the performance and trying to identify our top elite players and say to them, right, because you are so much fitter and more conditioned than the guy next to you, you need to do a little bit extra at the end of practice. Ah, that's cool. So we work out those that need additional work, rather than just always trying to protect the weak and the guys that have prone injury.

• 32:40Speaker 00

  All right, hold that thought for me, Wayne, just for a second. We are going to take a break and we will get our teeth deeply into that subject of injury, injury prevention and recovery when we come back with both Dave and Wayne. So stick around, it's a crucial component of today's tougher and faster game and we'll explore it straight after the break. Don't go away.

• 33:06Speaker 00

  Welcome back, I'm Gary O'Reilly. And I'm Chuck Nice. And this, of course, is Playing with Science. Yes, yes, yes. And we have explored nutrition, we've explored conditioning and we're about now to get going on the crucial part of the game, the game that kind of got forgotten for so long because we didn't quite understand. That's injury prevention and particularly the recovery, as was already known from Glenn Tobias. Our nutritionist, recovery starts immediately after the game, as far as he's concerned. Now, joining us via Skype, we have Dave Paluca, Head Strength Coach and Conditioning from the Miami Dolphins, and Wayne Diesel, Sports Performance Director again from the Dolphins. And chaps, let's get into that point. We touched on it briefly before the break about injury prevention

• 33:51Speaker 00

  and how you go about it. How about recovery, post-training, post-game? How quickly are you into your athletes as regards recovery from that kind of exercise?

• 34:04Speaker 07

  There's a couple of schools of thought here. One is that I think Recovery actually starts before the practice session.

• 34:11Speaker 00

  Whoa, right.

• 34:13Speaker 07

  You need to start to make sure that they're well hydrated, they have everything in place. And that is, that is how we start. We're looking at recovery before they've even got there, that they've slept well the night before. They've done all of those things in order for them to exercise with less risk of injury. So what we also do, and what's fairly common across the world. The recovery in the early stages of the training, say in the training camps that are coming out. We do less recovery initiatives, for example, like ice baths, all of those things, because we want the body to adapt.

• 34:51Speaker 07

  So often players will go for an ice bath or something when they're just starting their training program. That actually stops your body trying to adapt to it. We want the body to adapt to that, and that's how it gets better. But as the season goes on, then we're starting introducing more and more recovery techniques for the players. Like massage, like cryotherapy, ice baths, all of the things that are available as active recovery. In order for them to recover quicker for the next session. So it also depends on what stage of the season you're talking about, as to what recovery techniques you'll be using.

• 35:26Speaker 00

  So much the same as with the strength conditioning that we were discussing before the break. You really are intimate in the detail of the recovery. Now, I'm interested in the cryotherapy because it's something that is quite a little bit out there for a lot of elite athletes. But it's becoming more popular in Europe. I know it's been a little bit more embraced here in the US. So those temperatures are quite low, so you can't be putting athletes in there for any length of time. Can you expand on how you use cryotherapy?

• 35:59Speaker 07

  We actually utilize cryotherapy at the moment. It's one of the, um, we go to a center that's literally an hour minute drive of the facility that we have and the players can go there and it'll take them up to three minutes, two to three minutes a recovery session. And that is based on basically, as you said, very, very, very low temperatures. It helps to stimulate some of the responses, the hormonal responses within the body that adapts the body and helps them to recover. It helps them to sleep that evening. So, and that's a big part of our recovery, believe it or not, sleep is one of the more important strategies.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Well, you know, we're hearing that more and more, how important sleep is in terms of optimizing performance.

• 36:39Speaker 07

  And it's probably the cheapest and the most effective forms of recovery.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  There you go. For, for those of us, for those of us who work out in the, you know, in the listening audience, um, I'm, I'm going to ask, uh, I'm going to ask you, uh, Dave, what, what is the best thing that you can do in terms of lifting to get, um, uh, not just more muscle mass, but what every guy wants, that cut look. This is not part of our show, by the way. This is just for you. Yeah, this is just for me. Okay. Everyone in our control room right now is like, where's that question? Where was that question? Where'd that, I'm asking you, Dave. Help me out, man.

• 37:29Speaker 08

  Yeah, I know. It's, you know, it's funny. You know, people always say, kind of, what do I do to get tone? You know, I don't want to lose weight. I just want to get tone. You know, I don't, I want to get game muscle tone, but that, that's what they're saying. What they mean is I want my six pack to show better. Well, that just means you gotta eat better. Uh, it's, it, there's no magic bullet. You know, I mean, there's all the infomercials you see about pills and different programs and, you know, all these things, these DVDs you can get and people jumping and doing pushups and all that. All that stuff works, you know, of course, they don't show you all the people, you know, that, that haven't been successful with that program.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 38:11Speaker 08

  You know, that's the, it's called the survivorship bias. You know, they, they only look at the winners. They don't pay attention to the million losers, you know? Uh, that's why they have that small, you know, results may vary, you know?

• 38:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 38:27Speaker 08

  There's no, there's no magic bullet. I mean, I think the biggest thing is to develop better habits. I mean, that's what it is because it's about consistency.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 38:36Speaker 08

  You know, diets don't work for... The reason why diets don't work is eventually you come off of the... If you don't off the diet, it's not a diet anymore, it's a lifestyle change.

• 38:46Speaker 07

  I have a, I have a theory on that. Um, is that you've got to choose your parents better.

• 38:51Speaker 01

  You got, you got to choose your parents better?

• 38:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Why, why, why did I know that was coming? Why did I know that?

• 38:58Speaker 01

  There you go. So, that, that, well, you know what? You, you bring up a really great point and you hear, you hear a guy's, uh, say in the gym, like, "That guy hit the DNA lottery." You know, like, it's, that's, he's just got great genetics. I mean, is that really the case? And do you see that when you're looking at athletes? Because, I mean, at, at your level, all these guys are elite. So, is it really a matter of genetics when you look at these guys? Because they're all in the point zero zero zero zero one percent.

• 39:32Speaker 08

  Well, that, exactly right, or else they wouldn't be here. Right, and so that's what, you know, the, the, sort of the, uh, the growth in, in sports science and, and monitoring is to be able to get that last bit of advantage, right? Everybody at this level is elite. So, how do you get that one percent, two percent gain? And what, what we're charged with, right? So, um, that doesn't mean that the principles of nutrition and training doesn't apply to, to the general public. It, it, it does, it's just that we've got the technology and the resources to be able to monitor and track and, and, and make it needed. But, it's all, you know, they're still human beings, right?

• 40:16Speaker 08

  They still are governed by the same laws of, of physics and chemistry and, and science, right? So, uh, it's just that, and, and I think, like I said, it goes back to, to habits. So, I mean, if you're talking about wanting to build muscle or get in better shape or, or lose fat, I mean, it just, it's, it's getting rid of... Find foods, drink more water, eat more vegetables, get some exercise and get some sleep. I mean, it's really, I hate to say it, but that's, you know, I'm sure there's maybe one or two other things in there, but it's pretty simple. It's just a matter of doing it. And that's with developing good habits and keeping those habits.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  Well, now I feel doomed. Thank you very much.

• 40:56Speaker 00

  Don't worry. Guys, don't worry about that. He'll get over it.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  I'm joking.

• 41:02Speaker 00

  What's the, what's, I have a question of a sort. What's the one thing that's really taken your part of the Dolphins Football Club forward in the last two years, three years, four years in terms of science? Has there been one thing that you said, now that's changed our game?

• 41:18Speaker 08

  GPS, I would say.

• 41:19Speaker 07

  Yeah, the tracking that we spoke about earlier.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  Player track, player tracking.

• 41:24Speaker 07

  Measure what the players are doing physically. A lot of what we're trying to do in terms of advising coaches on practice sessions, have they done too much, have they done too little? Because on either end of that spectrum, you'll have injuries or poor performance. We try and look at the performance aspect rather than the injury because we believe if we improve your performance, we're going to decrease your injuries. So rather than harping on the negative injury side of it, we want to strengthen the performance side. And then there's a better buy-in from coaches and athletes if they feel that we are charged with improving, rather than this guy that's always beating them, oh, don't train too hard, you're going to get injured. Oh, be careful, you're going to get injured. Players and coaches are sick of that message. They want performance.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  So now with that in mind, why don't you tell us about, we know that you did some partnership with Kitman Labs in Silicon Valley, just on that very thing, about increasing performance as a means of preventing injury. So can you talk about that for a second?

• 42:23Speaker 07

  Certainly. It was one of several initiatives that we brought in at the beginning of last season, where the idea was that we wanted to track various.

• 42:33Speaker 07

  What we call internal load measurements in players, their range of motion, which was the Kitman Labs. If over the course of, from week to week, that they were losing range in their hips, in their shoulders, in their ankles. And from that, we could then, rather than waiting for the injury to occur, we could see that this pattern, this player's getting beaten up, he's getting stiffer, he's losing range within the hip. If we allowed that to continue, then the thought was that that player is going to expose himself to injury. And rather than waiting for that to actually happen, we can then get him into the weight room with Dave, do some stretches, whatever was necessary, to make sure that we restore that range of motion within that joint.

• 43:16Speaker 07

  So those are very useful tools. The challenge within the sport, as Dave mentioned, the sheer numbers, is trying to get these players in and get them screened and get them tested. So, you know, those are challenges and that's where Kitman Labs was, you know, one of the tools that we've decided to go for because of the relatively easy way in which you could screen a large number of players without taking laboratory times and spending a whole afternoon trying to get through your team.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  Wow. That's super cool stuff, man. Yeah, that's good. Well, it sounds, and listen, continued success. You guys, I know that the team did a lot better this year, so, you know, which is fantastic. And we're looking forward to even greater things from you in the future. And now when I, when I watch the team on Sunday, I can basically say like, yeah, I know why that guy is doing what he's doing. He's performing well because of Wayne and Dave. So, good luck, man. Thanks so much for being here. Thanks, guys.

• 44:17Speaker 00

  The pleasure's ours. Thank you to Wayne Diesel and Dave Palukadet from the Miami Dolphins. That's it, Chuck.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  I know.

• 44:24Speaker 00

  For today's show. That has flown by. It's been such a fascinating, fascinating show.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  Really very fascinating.

• 44:30Speaker 00

  And here we do it again.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 44:32Speaker 00

  I'm Gary Airely.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  I'm Chuck Nice.

• 44:34Speaker 00

  And this has been Playing with Science. I hope you enjoyed the show. We look forward to your company very, very soon.