#ICYMI: Hockey: Physics on Ice (Part 1)

Get your skates, grab your stick, and join Chuck Nice and Gary O’Reilly as they find out why hockey has more science in it than any sport on Earth! With physics professor Alain Haché, Bauer Hockey’s Craig Desjardin, and LA Kings color commentator Daryl Evans. Don’t miss an episode of Playing with Science. Subscribe on: iTunes Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/playing-with-science/id1198280360?mt=2 Stitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/startalk/playing-with-science TuneIn: http://tunein.com/radio/Playing-with-Science-p952100/ SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/startalk_playing-with-science GooglePlay Music: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Iimke5bwpoh2nb25swchmw6kzjq NOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free. Find out more at https://www.startalkradio.net/startalk-all-access/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:11Gary O'Reilly?

  I'm Gary O'Reilly.

• 0:12Chuck Nice?

  I'm Chuck Nice.

• 0:13Gary O'Reilly?

  And this is Playing with Science.

• 0:16Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 0:16Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes, it's high time. We got our skates on, grabbed our pads and took to the ice and found out why hockey probably has more science in it than any other sport on earth. Period.

• 0:28Chuck Nice?

  Period. And if you don't believe it, stick around because this is part one of our two-part series looking at the fastest team sport in the world. And to begin, we examine the science of the shot, the pass and the engineering and tech inside the sticks that bring it all together.

• 0:45Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, and illuminating for us will be Alan Hesey, physics professor and author of Slapshot Science and the Physics of Hockey. And before Chuck takes another spin on the Zamboni, we will catch up with the VP of Product at Bauer Hockey Equipment, Craig Desjardins. So if you want to know what goes into the kit, he is certainly the man.

• 1:08Chuck Nice?

  And last but by no means least, we're going to hear from Daryl Evans of the LA Kings who actually scored the overtime goal in the biggest NHL playoff comeback in history.

• 1:24Gary O'Reilly?

  Incredible.

• 1:25Chuck Nice?

  It's called the Miracle on Manchester.

• 1:28Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 1:28Chuck Nice?

  Which, you know...

• 1:29Gary O'Reilly?

  Kind of got a British theme going on there.

• 1:31Chuck Nice?

  It kind of seems like a British thing, but really the arena's on Manchester.

• 1:34Gary O'Reilly?

  So if you remember the Forum.

• 1:36Chuck Nice?

  The Forum. It was on Manchester. So that's why they come.

• 1:39Gary O'Reilly?

  Against the Edmonton Oilers.

• 1:40Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 1:40Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh no, there was one guy on the Oilers team who was quite good.

• 1:43Chuck Nice?

  Yeah? Yeah, just a little bit. It's a little bit. I don't know.

• 1:47Gary O'Reilly?

  And if you don't know the story, check it out.

• 1:49Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, unbelievable.

• 1:50Gary O'Reilly?

  Oilers were 5-0 up in the third quarter, then it all turns around.

• 1:56Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 1:58Gary O'Reilly?

  Physics on Ice is hockey.

• 2:00Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 2:01Gary O'Reilly?

  Um, and we're gonna get into that with Alan Hesey and I'm sure that he's gonna open up a whole load of stuff. But the Bauer guy, the tech, because those guys aren't gonna be behind the curve. They've got to be ahead of the curve.

• 2:15Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 2:15Gary O'Reilly?

  They've got NHL superstars knocking on the door saying, I want this, I want that. This is how my game's evolving, I want you with me. So that's gonna be a really interesting list.

• 2:24Chuck Nice?

  Man, we're gonna unpack a whole bunch of stuff from Physics on Ice to the tech to actually a vantage point of a player. We've got it all.

• 2:33Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, so if the only thing you know about ice hockey is Wayne Gretzky, then it's a school day, just for me and for you. Let's begin by taking a look at hockey's signature move, the slapshot.

• 2:44Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 2:45Gary O'Reilly?

  One of the fastest, most powerful shots there is. If you like, call it the slam dunk of hockey.

• 2:50Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, and you know, we have a clip that we'd like to show right now and then after that, we're going to bring in, uh, our physicist, Alan Hesey. And, uh, the reason why we picked this clip, it's a former hockey player, retired now, but his name is Al Iafredi. And for many years, he was with the Washington Capitals. And this particular play, um, for, uh, represents like the slapshot at its best. Because it's a breakaway play where, um, Iafredi receives the feed and he's all alone, almost like it's a penalty shot. And you see him just skating as hard as he can.

• 3:32Chuck Nice?

  And the thing that's funny is that whenever you see a breakaway play, uh, in any sport, and you know, as a, as a former professional soccer player, right?

• 3:40Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:40Chuck Nice?

  The guy gets alone and it's one on one with the goal.

• 3:43Gary O'Reilly?

  But then now, there's a whole other thing going off because it's not on the ice anymore. It's between his ears.

• 3:47Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 3:48Gary O'Reilly?

  The whole mentality, I, if I've done this much, I've got to finish the play.

• 3:52Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 3:53Gary O'Reilly?

  But is, am I right? This is the fastest recorded slapshot in NHL history?

• 3:57Chuck Nice?

  Well, he held the record for 16 years for the fastest recorded slapshot in history. And he's also known for having one of the fastest and hardest slapshots in, uh, in an A-. NHL history. And on this particular play, he is just haul assing down the ice. He's by himself, isolated, one on one with the goalie. Now, a lot of guys at that point, you would see them kind of finesse the shot. They might go left, right and backhand. They might do a little wrist flip. But what he does, he rears back and pow, just slaps one. And I mean, the goalie never knows what happens.

• 4:36Gary O'Reilly?

  This must be Al's dream.

• 4:37Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 4:37Gary O'Reilly?

  And it's come to fruition. So let's, let's watch this. Let's see how this pans out.

• 4:46Speaker 02

  Comes to Cavali, lead pass for Iafredi. He's got a breakaway. Al Iafredi scores and the Caps lead three to one. Not too many guys are going to take a slapshot on a breakaway, but we talked about Al's cannon that he has.

• 4:59Chuck Nice?

  There you go. You even hear the announcers say, not too many guys are going to take a slapshot on a breakaway. But you see the cannon that Iafredi has.

• 5:10Gary O'Reilly?

  It is. It's, I mean, this thing's traveling at more than a hundred miles an hour.

• 5:14Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 5:15Gary O'Reilly?

  I do that in my car.

• 5:18Chuck Nice?

  Wow, you know what?

• 5:18Gary O'Reilly?

  I'm in charge of a lethal weapon.

• 5:20Chuck Nice?

  I never even thought about it like that. It's like driving a tiny little black car a hundred miles an hour on ice into a net.

• 5:27Gary O'Reilly?

  All right.

• 5:28Chuck Nice?

  That's insane.

• 5:30Gary O'Reilly?

  Chuck's driving down the ice in his little slick mobile. But there's some serious physics, some serious science behind what we just witnessed. And to help us break it down is Professor of Physics Alan Hesey from the University of Moncton in Canada. Not just a professor, but an author too. Author of Slapshot Science as well as the Physics of Hockey. Alan, welcome to the show. Now, you've seen the clip. You've heard how Chuck feels about it. Firstly, are you a hockey player yourself? And then we'll go from there about what you felt you saw going through that whole.

• 6:06Chuck Nice?

  And before you answer, I'm gonna, let me, let me answer for you. I'm just want to see if I'm right. So where are you born in Canada?

• 6:13Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 6:13Chuck Nice?

  Okay. And you have lived there your whole life?

• 6:16Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 6:17Chuck Nice?

  Okay, then I am going to say that you are a hockey player. Otherwise, they would have murdered you by now.

• 6:24Speaker 03

  You guessed right.

• 6:27Gary O'Reilly?

  You went for low hanging fruit, didn't you?

• 6:31Gary O'Reilly?

  All right, Alan, so talk us through what just happened there with that slapshot.

• 6:36Speaker 03

  Well, that was a very interesting clip. I had actually never seen it. And it's the first and only time I've seen a player do that.

• 6:44Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 6:46Speaker 03

  It's a good shot.

• 6:47Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, we like the uniqueness of our clips and again, so you're verifying that. Thank you.

• 6:52Speaker 03

  As was said before, when you're on a breakaway, very often what you'll see, the player will try to deke around the goalie, go left or right, or take a shot fairly close. Go through what they call between the legs, the five holes, or go top corner or something like that.

• 7:10Gary O'Reilly?

  Right.

• 7:11Speaker 03

  The slapshot is not, I've never seen it, but obviously it worked fine for him. The thing is, it's a very fast shot, but it's not as accurate as a wrist shot that they will use typically on a breakaway.

• 7:25Gary O'Reilly?

  When he's actually setting himself up, so I'll bake it down into the basics that I understand. There's a weight transference, then there's a kick point in the stick and he kind of looks like he hits the ice just before the puck. What is happening in terms of the physics and science through that whole process?

• 7:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, so it's a bit like you have a rotating body, you have the upper body that is rotating and it's transferring that energy to the puck. So you have what they call kinetic energy of the upper body that is rotating. And you have an indirect collision, actually. That's a very important point because let's say you look at golf, you have the club hitting the ball directly. And when you have that situation, you have the ball leaving at up to twice the speed of the club. You never exceed that speed limit, no matter what the golf manufacturer, the golf balls manufacturers will tell you.

• 8:25Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay.

• 8:26Speaker 03

  The physical absolute limits of the speed of the ball will be twice the velocity of the club head. And you would also get the same thing in hockey. And that would be very hard to get hundreds of miles, a hundred miles per hour. Instead, what happens is they hit the ice before and they load the stick with a lot more energy that would be normally transferred to the puck. So that way you can reach higher speeds.

• 8:54Chuck Nice?

  So you're saying that the actual collision with the ice and the stick first?

• 9:00Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 9:01Chuck Nice?

  What that does is it loads the stick with more power.

• 9:05Gary O'Reilly?

  Hmm.

• 9:06Chuck Nice?

  So that when the stick.

• 9:07Gary O'Reilly?

  The nitro is.

• 9:08Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, yeah. So it's almost like the, the ice and the stick become like, uh, the, the cock and hammer of a gun, creating that, the, the puck to become the bullet at that point. Is that, is that about, is that about right or am I off?

• 9:25Speaker 03

  It would be like loading a spring.

• 9:27Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 9:28Speaker 03

  It's a bit like that. You, you'd load a spring, uh, let's say by hitting, uh, the wall by lo, you, you just compress the spring and then you, you move the spring in contact with the, with the puck and then you just, uh, you know, throw the puck with that.

• 9:41Chuck Nice?

  Gotcha. So.

• 9:42Speaker 03

  You know.

• 9:42Gary O'Reilly?

  Once the contact is made with the puck, once it leaves the stick, is there any force that's being imparted into the sticks, like a stability, like a gyroscopic action? Or is this basically a little black flying brick?

• 9:59Speaker 03

  Um, actually, yes. Um, so you want the puck to spin on itself.

• 10:05Chuck Nice?

  Uh huh.

• 10:05Speaker 03

  Okay, like, like, uh, the football, you know, if you just throw a regular force, it's gonna go all over the place. The same thing is with the puck. If you want to have a good, stable trajectory, whether you're passing or shooting to the net.

• 10:18Chuck Nice?

  Mm hmm.

• 10:19Speaker 03

  It has to have some spin.

• 10:21Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 10:21Speaker 03

  And that is made by, uh, the puck moving from the heel to the toe of the stick blade as it leaves, uh, as it's in contact with the blade of, of the stick.

• 10:32Chuck Nice?

  Now, is that a, a, a, phew, man, what you're saying there sounds extremely complicated to happen in a fraction of a second. Here is a player. They, uh, pull the stick back up in the air, rotate their entire body, comes down, hits the ice, that loads the spring, then the stick makes contact. So the head of the stick makes go, the blade The stick makes contact with the puck. At that point, then they have to pull it and then move the stick in such a way that it causes a rotation on the puck for the puck to then become a flying disc and make its way to the net. All of that happens within, uh, what? Uh, five tenths of a second? Is that what you're saying? Cause that sounds crazy. And I don't believe you. No, I'm joking. Is that really what happens?

• 11:18Speaker 03

  Uh, yes, except for the last detail there. You, you were saying, uh, you'd be pulling the stick towards you or something like that to make the puck rotate. Uh, that would be an idea, but actually it's done by the flick of the wrist. So you're, you're moving, you're twisting, um, the twisting of the stick makes the, the puck move in the, um, along the blade and, and take a spin.

• 11:39Chuck Nice?

  Well, you're, you're gonna have to forgive me for not knowing that. I am black and I've never played hockey.

• 11:44Gary O'Reilly?

  I'm white and I've never played hockey. So you're in good company. Now, the thing is, Alan, I know because you're a scientist that you don't believe in luck. Or do you?

• 11:55Speaker 03

  Uh, no, I believe in luck.

• 11:56Gary O'Reilly?

  You're the first. We have a first. Okay. So I'm just thinking, right? Um, the guy who first hit the ice before he hit the puck probably did it by mistake. And then comes up with a supercharged slapshot. So we've got a discovery, if you like, by accident. And then someone then gets this little bit of twisty ritz action in there and we've got a whole new slapshot going on. Uh, just, it's amazing. One of those things that by accident, you discover what has re, just revolutionized the game in terms of slapshot.

• 12:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, uh, uh, and it's something that if you don't teach, uh, players, they will probably figure it by themselves, just by trial and error.

• 12:38Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 12:39Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 12:40Gary O'Reilly?

  Can you, can you execute a slapshot without hitting the ice before you hit the puck?

• 12:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, you could do that, but it wouldn't go as fast. My best estimate would be maybe seventy, eighty miles per hour.

• 12:52Chuck Nice?

  Maybe seventy or eighty miles.

• 12:53Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay, so I think because we've worked out that hockey players are quite cute, they've worked out the physics, they've worked out all the forces involved, right? Yeah, you might laugh, I know. But do they not then, if they, if they hit the ice before they hit the puck, give away a slapshot is coming to a goalkeeper whose hearing is tro so acute?

• 13:14Speaker 03

  Very good question. In fact, yeah, you give plenty of hint when you're coiling back to, or they say winding back to execute a slapshot, it takes a second or so. So the goalies will get ready now. This is the key here. There's a radius of what we could call the depth zone within which the goalie has no time to react. The human reflexes are just not enough. And the distance where Pial Ifferty took his slapshot from, the goalie would just not have enough time to move and execute a slapshot. So if it finds, if it finds the hole, it will hit the net.

• 13:55Chuck Nice?

  So basically, it's like the play happens so quickly and the puck is moving so fast that the goalie just, it's physically impossible for the goalie to see that, make a reaction, and then get to the puck in time enough to deflect the goal. It's almost like in soccer, right? Where on a penalty kick in soccer, where the goalie has to kind of almost anticipate where the shot is going.

• 14:19Gary O'Reilly?

  See, he has to, what Alan is saying there, the read time, the time I have as the goalkeeper to read the situation, is longer in soccer maybe than in hockey because everything is traveling so far. We are dealing with the fastest team sport in the world.

• 14:33Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 14:34Gary O'Reilly?

  Now, in a soccer player, you will finesse, use power, use trickery, use guile. And I think with hockey players, we have a similar situation. They have a variety

• 14:44Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 14:44Gary O'Reilly?

  of different shots to bring to every different situation. And the goalkeeper, basically, how on earth hockey games are so low scoring is a testimony maybe to goalkeepers. I'm not quite sure. Alan will back me up on that, man.

• 14:57Speaker 03

  Well, see, the strategies that have been developed by goalies to to counter a situation like that is that you can you see the guys taking a slap shot. You know you will not have enough time to react. So what do you do? You try to look as big as possible. It takes about two tenths of a second for the hand to move and about four tenths of a second for the legs to move into position. Uh, so the technique that's been developed over time is uh they use the butterfly technique where they cover the bottom of the ice, which is the most vulnerable one, the slowest part of the body. And they they try to look as big as possible, the the posture and your your glove and your blocker has to be put in a position

• 15:39Speaker 03

  where you block as much as the net and you just hope that the puck will hit you and not the net.

• 15:43Gary O'Reilly?

  Didn't think I'd be hearing butterfly and ice hockey in the same sentence, but I like it. I get the analogy.

• 15:49Chuck Nice?

  And so basically, at that point during a slap shot, as a goalie, your job is just to be a human shield.

• 15:54Speaker 03

  That's exactly.

• 15:55Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, just go ahead. Take one for the team, literally, is is really what you're saying.

• 15:59Gary O'Reilly?

  Alan, have you found, I mean, when I said they they got all this physics worked out and you kind of pulled a face at me. Are hockey players, elite hockey players, natural born mathematicians, physicists? Or is this just natural skill that's coming through?

• 16:17Speaker 03

  It's uh it's natural skills and it's not uh, you know, only to to hockey. Think about it. I mean, you take baseball, for instance, you have the outfielder who looks at the ball for a fraction of a second, then he can can figure in his head where it's gonna fall, then run in that direction. Now, to solve that, you need computers, you need the physics equation, Newton's laws and everything. But the human mind has developed a skill to predict the trajectory quite accurately, just from experience, from past experience. And we're not the only one. I mean, if I if I take my freeze be and I throw it to a dog, the dog is not gonna run after the freeze be, he's gonna just wait till the freeze be is there and he's gonna run and jump up and and catch it

• 17:01Speaker 03

  because it knows in its head what the trajectory should be.

• 17:05Chuck Nice?

  Yes, but the the difference is that dog doesn't have opposable thumbs, so he can't throw it back to me. So you take that dog. Remember who's your master.

• 17:13Gary O'Reilly?

  No hating, no hating on dogs.

• 17:15Chuck Nice?

  That's all I'm saying.

• 17:16Gary O'Reilly?

  Alright, so we've, we've got slap shots clocked at over a hundred miles an hour. Um, and that's frightening to me. It's seriously frightening. I don't want to be near the ice, let alone in the goal. Um, can we make this thing go faster?

• 17:32Chuck Nice?

  And if we can, if we can make the, and, and afford to go faster, I guess there would have to be some technological advances to equipment. Or, you know, superhuman strength. But if we can make it go faster, right now it's like a hundred and eight is the fastest. Let's say we got a slap shot up to around a hundred and fifteen, or is there, is there a point where it's just not humanly possible to handle this?

• 17:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, um, there, there, you know, certainly technological improvements have been made in the past. If you look at the modern sticks they're using, they're one-piece composite sticks.

• 18:09Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 18:09Speaker 03

  Uh, in the old days, they would use laminated wood and, um, those, those, um, sticks would be a bit more lossy. So they would absorb energy instead of transferring to the puck. Now, now they've gone into regimes where most of the energy that, uh, you, when you bend the stick, most of it will go back to the puck. So, um, that part is already, uh, quite high. Upper body strength, uh, physical skills and all that. But I don't see, uh, the possibility of, uh, reaching beyond, you know, very, very, very much higher than a hundred and ten. No.

• 18:46Chuck Nice?

  Really? Okay. So let me just ask you one last thing before we, we'll wrap it up. When you talk about these players. And, you know, the slap shot is not an accurate shot. Uh, um, so, you know, I, I've seen players do a couple of things where one, they will wind up like a slap shot and end up making a wrist shot. I don't know what that's called, but it's, it looks really cool. Like the guy winds up like he's about to just, you know, unleash hell. And then they slow down and pop and just give it a, you know, and it fools the goalie into thinking that a slap shot was coming and the goalie goes the wrong way. But aside from the subterfuge or fooling the goalie,

• 19:27Chuck Nice?

  it looks like these guys are able to take the puck and put it on a certain part of the stick in order to make certain types of shots. Is it, are these guys that good? That's what they're doing? Like putting the puck on the tip of the stick, putting it in the middle of the blade, putting it on the back heel and doing things with it that way to create different shots?

• 19:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, there's definitely, it's important the way you shoot the puck. And of course, there's some adjustment, whether you use a slap shot or wrist shot, or they call it a slap wrist shot as well. It's a kind of a hybrid thing, which is a quicker release, not as fast, but because it's a quicker release, it's hard for the goalie to stop it anyways. But yeah, the way, I mean, a player like me, I'm a goalie actually, but if I take a shot,

• 20:18Speaker 03

  if I take a shot, you know, oftentimes the puck will just, you know, just wobble in space because I just don't master the technique that well. But yeah, you really have to impart a spin, you really have to shoot it a certain way. And if you don't do it well, it shows.

• 20:36Chuck Nice?

  Wow, okay.

• 20:37Gary O'Reilly?

  Well, look, Alan, thank you for being on our show. From fake shots to a real break. And when we come back, it's all about the tech and the science in the stick with the VP of Product from Bauer. Stick around.

• 20:55Gary O'Reilly?

  Welcome back. I'm Gary O'Reilly.

• 20:57Chuck Nice?

  And I'm Chuck Nice.

• 20:58Gary O'Reilly?

  And this is Playing with Science. Yes, it is. Of course, you knew that because you've been tuned in from the beginning. And today, it's all about physics on DAS as we explore the science of hockey shots. And now joining us by video call to break down the technology that goes into a hockey stick. And we are really privileged to have him, Craig Desjardin, Vice President of Product at Bauer Hockey.

• 21:22Chuck Nice?

  Welcome, Craig.

• 21:23Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 21:24Chuck Nice?

  Thanks for joining us, man. Hey, before we get into any technical equipment questions, Desjardins, very popular hockey name. Any relation to any of the great Desjardins that have played the sport?

• 21:41Speaker 04

  I would somewhere along the family tree possibly, but it's uh it's probably half the phone book in the province of Quebec.

• 21:48Chuck Nice?

  That's true. That is so true.

• 21:51Gary O'Reilly?

  He's a modest man.

• 21:52Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 21:53Gary O'Reilly?

  Modest man. Okay. Let's, as it were, start at the beginning. The evolution of the hockey stick is gonna basically have started with a piece of wood, was it not?

• 22:04Speaker 04

  It was. I mean, uh, and I think, um, you know, if you look at uh hockey sticks today, which are primarily made of composite. I mean, from a distance, they probably look similar to the wood stick you played with 20 years ago. But the reality is, when you start looking at the the taper area, the bottom eight inches of the stick, and you start looking under the hood in terms of the materials and uh and the geometries that are being used, there's there's a significant difference between the two.

• 22:35Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 22:36Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay, so, all right, let's start with the technology of the material and move on to the geometry. What, if anything, has revolutionized the hockey stick in terms of A1 material?

• 22:49Speaker 04

  Well, I think I think what you have is in the majority of of sort of high end or sticks that are being used in the NHL, they're primarily made of carbon fiber.

• 22:58Chuck Nice?

  So carbon fiber. And what makes carbon fiber such a wonderful material for for hockey sticks and and corvettes and uh all all lovely manner of technologically aesthetic, I mean, aside aside from the fact that it can be molded, what what makes carbon fiber so great for a hockey stick?

• 23:18Speaker 04

  Well, I think it has a it has a very high strength to weight ratio.

• 23:22Chuck Nice?

  Ah.

• 23:23Speaker 04

  And and if you think of a stick being made up of 13 or 14 layers being wrapped around a a mandrel or a bladder, uh and then having to compress all those layers together. Um, I mean, what you're getting is consistency. So if you compare wood stick, which obviously, if you repeatedly bend it over time, uh compared to a composite stick, which is not only a much more consistent product, but you're also having a longer playability, uh uh longer performance of that stick over time, because, you know, the challenge with hockey as opposed to a sport of golf is there there's so many different tasks that the stick has to perform.

• 24:07Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 24:08Speaker 04

  Has to shoot. Has the stick handle, has to pass, has to receive passes, has to slash other players, has to take face offs.

• 24:17Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 24:18Speaker 04

  Uh, so it's very complex in terms of how the stick needs to, for example, bend in the X and the Y axis.

• 24:25Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 24:26Speaker 04

  Uh, it has to be responsive and durable at the same time, which is extremely difficult.

• 24:31Chuck Nice?

  So let me ask you, uh, from what you just said, when you talk about all these different things, I mean, um, the hockey stick, without it, there is no game of hockey. You know, the stick is a part of every single play. With that in mind, uh, do different players use different sticks? Or is there just one standard stick? So if I'm a defenseman, am I using a different stick than I would if I was a left winger?

• 24:54Speaker 04

  That's a great question. I think what we've sort of bucketed our sticks into sort of three unique families.

• 25:02Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 25:02Speaker 04

  Uh, Supreme, Nexus and Vapor. And within those three families, each of those sticks has a unique shaft shape or geometry.

• 25:11Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 25:11Speaker 04

  Uh, they have a unique flex profile and they have a unique blade construction. So maybe let's start with, you know, just because you play a certain position, uh, you, you might skate differently and you might shoot or load the stick differently.

• 25:28Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 25:28Speaker 04

  Uh, and that means some players are looking for that quick release. They really want to just be able to load that stick on a quick snapshot. Other players really want to lean into that stick and load that, that shaft with energy.

• 25:42Chuck Nice?

  Mm-hmm. Okay.

• 25:43Speaker 04

  Uh, other players are looking for more stability because they're battling forward in the corner and they want to make sure they're getting the responsiveness and consistency that they're looking for. So our, we try to evaluate players and for example, in our innovation center in Blaineville, uh, Quebec, we can bring players in, put them on the ice, shoot them with high-speed video, instrument them with strain gauges and actually measure and match what kind of profile best suits their, their shooting style.

• 26:15Gary O'Reilly?

  So how have you coped with that in, in terms of the evolution of the, the sport of hockey itself? And your equipment in particular, as we're discussing the sticks? Have you been able to stay ahead of the curve? I don't mean that as a pun, um, have you, have you been able to do that?

• 26:31Speaker 04

  I mean, we we believe so.

• 26:33Gary O'Reilly?

  Good.

• 26:34Speaker 04

  You know, we have, you know, over forty percent share in the NHL. And I think what we're trying to do is, you know, when we're looking for new materials to go into our stick, our benchmark isn't other products in the sporting good industry. We're working with

• 26:50Speaker 04

  companies in the aerospace industry. We're using similar foams and carbon fibers that are being used in Formula One.

• 26:56Gary O'Reilly?

  Wow.

• 26:56Speaker 04

  Or on a Boeing airplane.

• 26:59Gary O'Reilly?

  Wow. All right, let's go back to, because we're going to get carried away here with with a whole lot of other technology in sports. And I know Chuck and I are just desperate to get there.

• 27:06Chuck Nice?

  Who cares? Let's get carried away, baby. I don't care.

• 27:08Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay.

• 27:09Chuck Nice?

  I'm ready to get swept away.

• 27:10Gary O'Reilly?

  We've got guys listening for hockey.

• 27:12Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 27:14Gary O'Reilly?

  The flex point, is it called the kick point? You play with that high or low? And what sort of change up can that give you? And can you actually build a variable flex point into a stick?

• 27:29Chuck Nice?

  So first of all, before we go any further, why don't you give us a breakdown of the stick in terms of flex point, just in case there's some. I think it'll be a little bit more interesting if if the listener knows exactly what that is. And then tell us about what Gary said in terms of a variable flex point.

• 27:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, great, great question. So, you know, if you think of the stick from top to bottom, you know, what we're talking about is how essentially the stick bends and where it bends.

• 27:56Gary O'Reilly?

  Mm hmm.

• 27:57Speaker 04

  Right? So if you start at the bottom, the stiffer the stick is in the bottom eight to 10 inches, the higher the kick point, which which means you can really load that stick if it has a high kick point and really lean into it and let that blade whip through, but it's going to take a little bit longer versus a stick that has a more flexible taper and huzzle, where you're not looking for quite as robust a shooting motion.

• 28:26Gary O'Reilly?

  Right.

• 28:27Speaker 04

  But you have to get that shot off as quickly as possible, the stick so the stick can be easier to load.

• 28:32Chuck Nice?

  Gotcha. So so you don't have to, you don't have to lean into it as much as what you're saying and but you can get off a quick shot. So if I'm a defenseman, then that's kind of maybe the shot that I, that's maybe the stick I want, right? Because I'm not really offensive minded, but I'm also, any chance I get that I can take that shot, I want to do it and as quickly as possible, right?

• 28:55Speaker 04

  Correct. And I mean, even within defenseman, that might be suitable for a stay-at-home defenseman.

• 29:00Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 29:01Speaker 04

  But for a puck-moving defenseman who stick handles quite a bit and is involved more in the play, they might be looking for something that's a little more whippy down towards the hozel.

• 29:11Chuck Nice?

  Gotcha.

• 29:12Speaker 04

  So the beauty is we can evaluate each of these players relatively quickly and understand their shooting characteristics, what they like, and then match them with the right technology.

• 29:21Gary O'Reilly?

  Let's travel further south down to the blade. Now, you play with all different sorts of sizes, shapes, and surfaces, am I right, in terms of what you construct on the blade itself?

• 29:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, there's, I mean, there's not a whole lot we can't do, but you know, if you think of the blade, you know, at 30,000 feet, I mean, you're essentially want something that's relatively stiff, so you know, you can get that shot off and it's really, you know, the puck's going to come whipping off the blade. But the beauty is you can also play with the foams that are being used on the inside of the blade and also the geometry to, you know, have something that dampens the puck a little bit more. So you have more feel. You know, you might want, in some cases, we've used dual densities inside a blade, so the bottom half is denser, so it has a better feel, but you want that blade to be

• 30:18Speaker 04

  lightweight, so the balance is there. So the upper half is a less dense material.

• 30:23Gary O'Reilly?

  Do you put anything on the surface of the blade to help control and when that little wrist action get a little bit of stability on the pass, on the shot?

• 30:32Speaker 04

  You know what? We have a lot of demand, especially with NHL players, for sort of like a sand blast finish.

• 30:40Chuck Nice?

  Really? And is that so it can grab the puck?

• 30:44Speaker 04

  Uh huh. Well, in theory, you'd think so, but most players are taping over top of it. So, you know, players swear that-

• 30:52Chuck Nice?

  Wait a minute, wait a minute!

• 30:54Gary O'Reilly?

  That'll be players for you.

• 30:55Chuck Nice?

  What the hell is that? I really need a sandblast finish, so that I can put a condom on it.

• 31:01Gary O'Reilly?

  Can you send me some tape?

• 31:02Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, send me some tape with your sandblast finish. That's insane!

• 31:07Speaker 04

  You know, the players swear that they notice a difference and we can't necessarily quantify it, but the feedback's been really positive, so.

• 31:16Gary O'Reilly?

  Here, while we're talking about blades, one of our listeners has tweeted in. He is Chief Spatora from the New York Fire Department, a person we would salute. He was inquiring about blade curvature. And the fact that, didn't you get to a point where the NHL said, "No, you can't have it at certain dimensions" and reined it back in? Is that correct?

• 31:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think there's maximums on how long a stick can be, how long a blade can be, and then the amount of curve.

• 31:52Gary O'Reilly?

  And if I have too much of a curve on my blade, have I got an unfair advantage with puck control?

• 31:57Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, does it give you, because like, let's say you put enough curve on it that it's really just a highlight, like a highlight, what's that thing that you use?

• 32:05Gary O'Reilly?

  Like a field hockey stick.

• 32:06Chuck Nice?

  Like a field hockey stick or something, like, does that give you an advantage?

• 32:11Speaker 04

  Well, I think it's relative to the situation, so definitely the more curve you have on a blade, the more spin you can put on the puck.

• 32:21Chuck Nice?

  Oh, okay, gotcha. So the more spin you put on it, the more stability you have in the puck when you're shooting it, so that's the advantage?

• 32:27Speaker 04

  That's part of it. And players around the net are not necessarily taking these big sweeping motions, they're just trying to get the puck up quickly over the goalie, whereas someone who maybe is stick handling or uses their backhand more frequently would want a flatter curve, so they'd have the ability to shoot equally forehand and backhand.

• 32:47Gary O'Reilly?

  Craig, thank you so much for your time.

• 32:49Chuck Nice?

  Fascinating.

• 32:49Gary O'Reilly?

  For breaking down a lot of science and technology that's gone into the Bauer products, in particular the sticks and the goalkeeper's mask. We are going to take a break and when we come back, we'll have a little bit of NHL royalty. And that would be Daryl Evans from the LA Kings, of course, former player and a man with a wonderful history. Just think, the miracle on Manchester. We'll be right back.

• 33:18Gary O'Reilly?

  Welcome back. I'm Gary O'Reilly.

• 33:20Chuck Nice?

  I'm Chuck Nice.

• 33:21Gary O'Reilly?

  And of course, he's still playing with science. And today, as you will know, if you've been tuned in all show, we've explored the physics around slapshot and the tech in the stick itself. And both left me illuminated.

• 33:38Chuck Nice?

  Absolutely.

• 33:39Gary O'Reilly?

  And now royalty.

• 33:41Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 33:42Gary O'Reilly?

  I aim for a little bit of royalty on the show.

• 33:44Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, you know, we, we heard from, you know, Professor Alan Heschech. We've heard from, you know, the, the tech aspect with Craig Desjardins from Bauer. And now it's time to talk to a real expert, somebody who's actually been in, in, in battle on the ice, a man, a man who knows what it is to have the pressure of an NHL playoff game unlike any other game in the history of the NHL. Like, this is not hyperbole what I'm saying right here.

• 34:16Gary O'Reilly?

  Fact.

• 34:17Chuck Nice?

  This is a quantifiable fact. This man played in a game like no other hockey game in the history of hockey. We're talking none other than left wing turned LA Kings radio analyst, Daryl Evans. What's happening, Daryl?

• 34:36Speaker 05

  I'm great, but boy, the way you guys are talking me up, if I had you as an agent, I might still be playing.

• 34:40Gary O'Reilly?

  Don't worry, we'll be taking a commission after the show.

• 34:43Chuck Nice?

  I mean, but come on, come on, Daryl, you gotta be honest, man. I mean, they didn't call it the miracle on Manchester for nothing, okay? I just gotta know.

• 34:54Chuck Nice?

  When you think about it, first of all, to come back uh from in hockey, we're talking about hockey here. The score is five, nothing.

• 35:05Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 35:06Chuck Nice?

  Okay, and people are in their cars on their way home in the in the in the second.

• 35:13Gary O'Reilly?

  Even the owner walked out.

• 35:14Chuck Nice?

  The owner, the owner, he was in a jacuzzi, alright, uh, you know, just relaxing, trying to get it, trying to get his head together. How's that's got to just be unbelievable to be a part of a game where it's the single biggest comeback in NHL history. Tell the truth.

• 35:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, it really is. You know, I think it's something that I've really learned to appreciate probably more over the, you know, the latter years than immediately when it happened. And I think sometimes, you know, when you look back at that series, I think, you know, even overcoming that deficit of five goals and winning the game, but, you know, probably even go back a little bit further as that series started, just the difference between the two teams, the Oilers that year, finished forty six points ahead of the Kings. So just the matchup going into the playoff series, they were so heavily favored. So, you know, that even magnified it even a little bit more.

• 36:01Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, talk about David and Goliath. I mean, seriously.

• 36:05Gary O'Reilly?

  Is it right, is it right, Daryl, that when they started to take that extensive lead, some of the Oilers players didn't treat you with respect, not you particularly, but the Kings with respect on the ice?

• 36:16Speaker 05

  Well, I wouldn't say they didn't treat us with respect, but I think at that point, they're, they were a young team and, uh, they were, you know, probably a little on the cocky side and, you know, they had every right to do so, you know, to feel that way, you know, they had built themselves a five nothing lead. Uh, they were one of the greatest scoring teams ever, you know, in the history of the game. And, you know, they felt that, you know, leading by five goals, they were in a, comfortable in a competent spot. Uh, they'd won the previous game, be it it was in overtime, but I think they felt that now they were, you know, starting to take a stranglehold on the series and, you know, taking everything back in their favor. So, uh, you know, they had every right to kind of feel that way. And because of the inexperience that they had at, you know, having success in the National Hockey League that,

• 36:55Speaker 05

  you know, they they may have overdone it a little bit, but, uh, you know, that's, uh, that's what makes sports and, you know, it just goes to show you how things, how things can turn around. Uh, you know, just over a couple of breaks, you're there.

• 37:05Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 37:06Gary O'Reilly?

  I know, from my experience of professional sport, there are now and again, games where all of a sudden, in your mind, you say, I know the score's against us, but we're gonna win this.

• 37:19Chuck Nice?

  It's just you can't explain it. It just pops into your head. Did that moment happen to you? Oh, man, that's a that's a really good question because I got to hear this when you're down five nothing and you're playing in hockey. Uh, that's the equivalent of being down sixty five to two in a basketball game. Okay, so so do you do you really feel like it's okay? We're we're gonna do this. Do you really? Not a five nil. Maybe not a five nil, but you know, uh, well, then here's the question then. At what point? There you go. At what point in the game? Do you say? Holy moly. We can do this. At what point? And and and and what is? The psychology, where is your mind? Where is your state of being?

• 38:03Chuck Nice?

  Uh, from a professional athlete's standpoint when that happens?

• 38:06Speaker 05

  Well, I think I, you know, personally, I was starting to feel pretty good about it. After the puck went over Grant Fear's shoulder and we were up six five, I thought we could win.

• 38:16Chuck Nice?

  Now, that's a good answer.

• 38:18Speaker 05

  No, you know, I I think when we look at the game, the mindset of the hockey team going into the third period was to you know, to win the final period and try to carry a little bit of momentum going into the next game. And we were fortunate, Jay Well scored just a couple of minutes into the period. By the middle of the period, we were trailing by a score of five to two, and so now it was at a respectable point. I think when it finally became five three. Uh, and then we had a power play, Gary Younger taking a major penalty, so we had a power play for the remainder of the third period. I think at that point that there was a little bit of reality saying that, you know, possibly, you know, we could do this. Um, you know, that if we if we can, you know, continue to keep moving and momentum was in our in our favor at that time. There was moments in the game, they had a couple of breakaways in the third period that

• 39:03Speaker 05

  uh, they didn't have success on, that our goaltender was able to, you know, turn aside. So when you start to see these little things starting to go in your favor, you know, you have a little bit more belief, but I think probably the, you know, the first uh, you know, reality was when we were within two goals when it was five to three that, you know, we had a legit chance. Now it was just a matter of was the clock going to be able to hang out for us?

• 39:23Chuck Nice?

  Which it certainly did, and then, of course, you guys end up tying it up and you go into overtime. And I believe, you know, uh, I I hope you don't mind us reliving this with you. But, uh,

• 39:34Speaker 05

  No, God, no, not at all.

• 39:37Chuck Nice?

  But, uh, I think we have the clip.

• 39:39Speaker 06

  Grand pure Doug Smith out Darrell Evans and Bozek and all rookie frontline Wells and Chartra back Smith on the draw shot by Evans he's Oh

• 39:49Speaker 07

  Evans shot it from the right side up under the crossbar and the Kings have taken the lead in the series they came from behind to win the overtime six to five and the Kings lead the series

• 40:08Gary O'Reilly?

  I love that little step was you're going backwards after scoring

• 40:16Chuck Nice?

  Oh man

• 40:17Gary O'Reilly?

  The thing is you you don't know what you're gonna do if you score and you celebrate unless you've got one of those choreographed routines

• 40:24Chuck Nice?

  Right

• 40:25Gary O'Reilly?

  The moment just takes you and I think that's what happened to Darrell

• 40:27Chuck Nice?

  Nice so let me ask you something here's you're a guy that's been around this game for a very long time I'm not I'm not calling you old but in hockey years you're a pretty old guy

• 40:38Gary O'Reilly?

  I'm sure I'm sure Darrell thanks you for that

• 40:41Chuck Nice?

  But no what I'm saying is that here's one thing that I've noticed about hockey I've seen a few games live it is the fastest sport there is it's it's amazing the speed with which you guys are flying around that ice it is amazing the speed with which that puck is moving and I've watched it on television and I have to tell you not that big of a fan it does not translate to television what do you think because you're an analyst you've seen a million games you call games what can be done to bring the excitement that is

• 41:22Chuck Nice?

  hockey live to the television screen because for me it's a lot like NASCAR you go to a NASCAR track and you watch these guys zip around that track at these incredible speeds you hear the roar of the engine there's nothing like it live you watch it on TV it's just a bunch of guys driving in a circle as far as I'm concerned and I can't watch it what can be done to hockey to bring that that that speed and that excitement to television

• 41:51Speaker 05

  I think it's you know probably the placement of some of the cameras I know in the new stadiums since you know they've been built the next generation of stadiums that You know, they've taken away those, you know, those prime camera spots, you know, that were usually about twenty, thirty feet above ice level.

• 42:04Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 42:05Speaker 05

  Uh, they really captured the game maybe a little, a little more tightly. Uh, the cameras are now a little higher, a little bit more removed from what we're seeing. You know, I, I think that takes away from a little bit of, uh, what's actually going on on the ice. I think in order to appreciate the game, I think it's something that you really have to see live.

• 42:21Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 42:22Speaker 05

  A number of times in order to be able to go watch it and follow it, uh, you know, on TV. But, you know, if you just turn it on TV and somebody's never been to a game, it's tough. I think once you're in that environment, you see it at game speed, you see the force and everything that's going into it. I think that gives you a better appreciation. And I think the only way that you can capture that is with those, uh, cameras being closer to the ice and, you know, even, even some of, you know, the sound effects and, you know, that kind of stuff. If you can capture, you know, that, that, that grunt work that's going on in those battles along the boards.

• 42:51Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 42:51Speaker 05

  You know, actually hearing that puck when it comes off a post as opposed to from a distance. Like even as far as we, we sit in, in Staples Center where I'm calling games now, you can hear the ping up there, but if you were able to capture that like on TV where that camera and a microphone is right down.

• 43:06Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 43:07Speaker 05

  At that level and, you know, you can hear that thing pop off the pipe, uh, I think it'll give people a greater appreciation for actually what's going on on the ice.

• 43:14Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, you're absolutely right.

• 43:15Gary O'Reilly?

  For sensual involvement.

• 43:16Chuck Nice?

  Yes, it has to be.

• 43:17Gary O'Reilly?

  For the, for the, for the viewer, like myself, who's never been to a live game, but enjoy hockey, uh, that sort of immersing, immersing myself with more of my senses. I, I can see that really being a way to, to drag people into it, to give them the feel.

• 43:31Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, and as a, as a matter of fact, you're absolutely right about, uh, you know, that when, when you hear that clap.

• 43:38Gary O'Reilly?

  Yep.

• 43:38Chuck Nice?

  When that, when the, when the stick hits the puck inside the arena, it's, it's the same, it's the same thing of like being at a ballpark and you hear the crack of a bat. It's that same type of feeling, you know what I mean? So, yeah, I, I, I, I agree with you. I, I just hope the NHL does some stuff, uh, to, to bring that, cause I think that we live in such a, a visual society that bringing more excitement to, uh, television hockey will do.

• 44:03Gary O'Reilly?

  There's camera development all the time, if you think about. The whole GoPro thing, you think about the, the camera angles that are happening in other sports and the numbers, I think it's only a matter of time before that, that appears in NHL, at least I would hope so.

• 44:17Chuck Nice?

  Because it's a great sport, I mean, it deserves it. Is there anything that these players have today that you look at, and I don't care if it's equipment, I don't care if it's technological advancement, uh, I don't care if it's, um, uh, things that the team or the front office does for players that might be different, but what is different in the game today that you look at and go, damn, if only they had that when I was playing?

• 44:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think, I think a lot of it has changed, uh, you know, right from the, you know, the off-ice workouts and the way that we prepare, uh, the exercises they do in the gym, uh, you know, and I grew up in an era was, you know, lift as much as you can, you know, as often as you can, and, you know, didn't matter what you tore and, you know, what you ripped and what you broke, it just, uh, you know, it's just try to get as strong as you possibly can, and now there's a lot of thought put into it, which muscles you're actually developing.

• 45:03Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 45:04Speaker 05

  Uh, you know, I've heard reference over the years, uh, you know, quick twitch muscles and, uh, and that type of stuff, I think the, uh, the accessibility of, of a video, being able to study your opponent, uh, I think from what we put into fueling our bodies, you know, uh, from, uh, you know, technology there, getting, getting the right diets and, you know, what your body best performs on, uh, the mental frame of mind, like getting yourself there, and, you know, each and every piece of equipment, you know, and the equipment has gotten lighter, the sticks right now, um, you know, we used to play with just, uh, you know, basic wooden stick and really there was no two sticks that were, that were identical because they're, they're from natural sources and wood, where now everything is, you know, prefab and made and you can get, you know, you order a dozen sticks, they're gonna be

• 45:47Speaker 05

  all the same, so, um, you know, I think they have that, that luxury, uh, you know, the weight of things like that, uh, and these players now, when they, you know, when they're selecting sticks, you know, they'll go to the stick manufacturer, they'll put, uh, you know, points, uh, pressure points on the stick as to, you know, where your torque come from, where your pop point is, and so you're actually... Back in, you know, as I look at it, you know, my generation even further back, it was probably more the magician and now it's the wand. You learn to use your stick now and you can succeed with it. Whereas before, there was so much put upon the individual, uh, just, you know, the natural ability that you had and the things that you were able to create. But I think now we have resources to, to be able to complement that natural

• 46:29Speaker 05

  gift an athlete has in any sport. But now we can enhance it by making all the resources around it, all the equipment they use, even the surface of ice that we skate on, everything better to just make a better product for the people to watch.

• 46:42Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 46:43Gary O'Reilly?

  It used to be the magician, now it's about the wand.

• 46:46Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 46:47Gary O'Reilly?

  What a phrase, what a great phrase. Thank you for giving us that one.

• 46:50Chuck Nice?

  All right, here we go. We gotta, we gotta wrap up. But before we go, I just gotta know this. Cause you know, uh, just, just to, just to find out, there's a little bit of more of a

• 46:59Gary O'Reilly?

  What do I think I know where this is going?

• 47:00Chuck Nice?

  Little bit of a Rorschach test here for you, Daryl. All right. What, it's a little game of would you rather? Okay. Would you rather score a goal or put a devastating check on another player that you really don't like?

• 47:18Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh.

• 47:19Speaker 05

  I want to put that puck in the back of the net.

• 47:21Chuck Nice?

  Ah.

• 47:22Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 47:22Chuck Nice?

  All right. There you go.

• 47:24Speaker 05

  That hurts more. That hurts more.

• 47:26Chuck Nice?

  Oh.

• 47:27Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, you see?

• 47:28Chuck Nice?

  Oh, look at that.

• 47:28Gary O'Reilly?

  No, no, no. Daryl's got it. He's, I'm absolutely with him.

• 47:31Chuck Nice?

  There you go.

• 47:32Gary O'Reilly?

  That's how you heard it.

• 47:32Chuck Nice?

  You hurt the guy where it really counts.

• 47:34Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, back of the net.

• 47:35Chuck Nice?

  Get laying them out, you're sending them home a loser.

• 47:37Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 47:38Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 47:39Chuck Nice?

  Okay. All right. Good answer.

• 47:40Gary O'Reilly?

  Daryl, thank you so much for sharing your time. Best to you, best to the Kings. And you know what? We look forward to your company in the future, maybe sometime soon on the show.

• 47:49Chuck Nice?

  Thanks so much, man.

• 47:50Speaker 05

  I look forward to it, guys. Thanks for the conversation. It was great, great sharing some of that stuff with you. Best of luck with everything.

• 47:56Chuck Nice?

  All right, Daryl. Thanks so much, man. That was cool, man. Man, this guy's great.

• 48:01Gary O'Reilly?

  It used to be about the magician, now it's all about the wand.

• 48:04Chuck Nice?

  Equipment in hockey really means a lot.

• 48:09Gary O'Reilly?

  It does now, but as Daryl said, you got natural ability.

• 48:15Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 48:15Gary O'Reilly?

  That is not off the chart, but way on its way up. And then you bolt on all this super new equipment.

• 48:24Chuck Nice?

  It's amazing.

• 48:25Gary O'Reilly?

  The game has just got elevated.

• 48:27Chuck Nice?

  Right. I mean, it's amazing. It's probably the sport where you can see tech in terms of equipment.

• 48:34Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 48:34Chuck Nice?

  Being meshed with a player more so than any other sport.

• 48:38Gary O'Reilly?

  So there you go.

• 48:39Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 48:40Gary O'Reilly?

  The guys are playing with science and they're playing with it on ice. And there will be another hockey show coming up before you blink. And then we'll get stuck into more physics and the technology this time of the skates. And trust me, you're really gonna love what's going on with those skates. So been playing with science. I'm Gary O'Reilly.

• 49:04Chuck Nice?

  I'm Chuck Nice.

• 49:05Gary O'Reilly?

  See you all soon.