#ICYMI: Hockey: Fan Questions and More

Gary O’Reilly and Chuck Nice are back for Season 2 of Playing with Science! First up: answers to our fan’s questions about the physics of hockey. Feat. Prof. Alain Haché, Neil Tyson, and NHL Nashville Predators Left Wing Colin Wilson. (Warning: Adult Language.) Don’t miss an episode of Playing with Science. Subscribe to our channels on: Apple Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/playing-with-science/id1198280360?mt=2 GooglePlay Music: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Iimke5bwpoh2nb25swchmw6kzjq SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/startalk_playing-with-science Stitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/startalk/playing-with-science TuneIn: http://www.tunein.com/playingwithscience NOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free. Find out more at https://www.startalkradio.net/startalk-all-access/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:11Gary O'Reilly?

  I'm Gary O'Reilly

• 0:12Chuck Nice?

  And I'm Chuck Nice

• 0:13Gary O'Reilly?

  And this is Playing with Science Because our hockey shows were so well received by you, the listeners, and because you had so many questions about physics on ice and its technology, we decided to make another show just for you and do our best to answer as many questions as we can.

• 0:31Chuck Nice?

  And to help us achieve this, we have the multi-talented Alan Hesey, author of Slapshot Science and the Physics of Hockey and Professor of Physics at Moncon University in Canada, a man who knows what it means to be in the thick of the action because he is also a hockey goalie. That's what we learned when we talked to him.

• 0:52Gary O'Reilly?

  We did, and we're very impressed by that fact. But we won't stop there. We have a little treat for all you hardcore hockey fans because there will be talking to a third-generation professional hockey player, Colin Wilson. Yes, that Colin Wilson of the Nashville Predators and someone who, like yourselves, has an inquiring mind when it comes to science and not to leave out our geeks. We're going to bring in Dr Tyson and he will talk to Colin. So stick around for that, it promises to be a lot of fun.

• 1:21Chuck Nice?

  Yes, and so to answer all the questions about hockey, or as you so eloquently put it, Gary, physics on ice.

• 1:29Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 1:30Chuck Nice?

  Let's bring in Professor Alan Hesey. Alan, how are you, my friend? I'm well, thank you. Thanks for joining us again. So what we have done is put out a call to you, the listener, on Facebook and Twitter and any incarnation where we can be found on the internet.

• 1:49Gary O'Reilly?

  Even got a pigeon with a little message on its leg.

• 1:51Chuck Nice?

  Looked. Stop that pigeon. Okay, just dated myself unbelievably.

• 1:58Gary O'Reilly?

  It's all right, I got there.

• 1:59Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. But anyway, what we did was ask you, what do you want to know about the physics of hockey or the science of hockey? And we got a lot of... Of questions from all across the internet. So let's take our first one from Renee Douglas. And we always start with the Patreon patron question. Because Patreon patrons actually support StarTalk financially. So basically.

• 2:28Gary O'Reilly?

  I already passed.

• 2:29Chuck Nice?

  Yes, exactly.

• 2:30Gary O'Reilly?

  For the professor, here we go. What factors determine the speed of the puck? What is the maximum speed a puck can go? Alan, you're up.

• 2:40Speaker 02

  Yes, so it's all about how much energy is transferred to the puck from the player to the puck. And really, it's like you cannot give more speed than the energy that you're willing to provide. And muscle, it comes from the muscles. And we know from basic biomedical or kinesiology that about 10 pounds of muscle can deliver up to about one horsepower at the peak. And so the more muscle groups work towards propelling the puck, the greater the velocity.

• 3:15Chuck Nice?

  So when you said more muscle groups work toward it, are you talking about that would be? So let's say I'm like super jacked. And so I have my biceps because I'm pulling back, I have my back because I'm twisting my trunk. And then my shoulders because I'm pulling the stick down. So all of those groups working together. The more muscular you are in each one of those groups, the more powerful, the more energy you can transfer to the stick of the puck?

• 3:43Speaker 02

  Yes, and so different techniques exploit a different amount of muscle groups. So the slapshot will use a lot of the leg, the trunks, the upper body. Whereas the wrist shot is not as powerful. And it usually involves more like the front, the top of the body only.

• 4:00Gary O'Reilly?

  So slapshot actually comes from? Basically, ice level up through them back down to the ice.

• 4:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's it's the all the whole body so that the legs would propel the body forward and then the the rotation of the upper body with the we don't know move the puck to the stick towards the puck and then transfer that energy to the puck.

• 4:21Chuck Nice?

  So now, let's say we I think if I'm not mistaken and I I can't remember off the top of my head, so I may be wrong. So for those of you who are going to correct me on Twitter, don't don't don't skewer me. Just let me know, but don't.

• 4:35Gary O'Reilly?

  No pressure then to get it right.

• 4:37Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, but I believe the top speed of a puck right now has been recorded at 108 miles per hour. Yeah, I believe. Is is it possible to get much faster than that? And what would what would the top speed be um looking at maybe the strongest human possible?

• 4:57Speaker 02

  Very good question. Um, I don't know if anybody anybody has looked at that. Uh, but I think we're we're really close to the the limit of what a person can do. And don't forget too as well that when they do the skills competition, what they have, they take a few strides towards the puck. And that also helps because you transfer that linear momentum from the player to the puck. And that does usually happen in a game. Usually you'll shoot from the puck is from where you are and then you shoot it from there. So typically in a real game, you would never attain um.

• 5:33Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  Rarely attain above a hundred miles.

• 5:36Gary O'Reilly?

  Could you imagine if you took two steps back during a game? By the time you got to the puck, you've got three guys on your back.

• 5:42Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, exactly. The game is moving too fast. The game is moving way too fast for you to actually uh take a couple steps and get a skating movement towards the puck. But let me ask you this then. Um, is when the puck normally in a slapshot, you have a guy who is being fed the puck. It's rare.

• 6:01Gary O'Reilly?

  Ah, yeah.

• 6:01Chuck Nice?

  It's rare that you will just have a guy stop, okay, uh, draw back and make a slapshot. Normally, it's off of a pass. So somebody feeds you the puck. Does that slow down the speed of the slapshot? Or does the energy of the puck going towards the stick act like it does in baseball and actually increase the speed of the puck?

• 6:30Speaker 02

  Correct. Actually, if you look at it, it goes faster when the puck is coming towards you because you get this bounce effect adding up to your own effort. And it's exactly what's happening in baseball. I think it would be very difficult to hit a home run from a stationary ball. You, you, it, it, really, the, the home run is a, a combined effort from the, the, the batter and the pitcher as well.

• 6:54Gary O'Reilly?

  All right, borrowed energy. Okay, another question, another question for the good professor here, this time from Howard Pirat on Facebook. How does freezing the pucks make them glide better and not bounce?

• 7:07Chuck Nice?

  Okay, first of all, I did not know that they froze the puck.

• 7:10Gary O'Reilly?

  I think it's hard not to when you consider it's, it's life is spent on ice.

• 7:13Chuck Nice?

  Well, yeah. But I'm sure, I, I know, I'm, but I didn't know that. Is there an actual freezing of the puck, like they put it in a freezer?

• 7:20Gary O'Reilly?

  Professor, does, if, do they freeze them? And if they do, is that about the density of the matter in the puck? Or is there something else going on?

• 7:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, so the, it depends on the game. I mean, amateur games, they don't freeze pucks, you know, but the high level, I believe they do have buckets of puck in a freezer somewhere and they use frozen pucks.

• 7:41Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh.

• 7:42Speaker 02

  Um, the main reason though is that frozen rubber doesn't bounce as much. So when it's gonna hit the board, it's not gonna rebound as fa- fast.

• 7:50Chuck Nice?

  So it's a, it's a, it's a dampening effect. It's really like a shock absorbing effect. It stops it from popping around.

• 7:58Speaker 02

  It becomes less elastic, just like any rubber band that you, you freeze, it becomes more rigid. So it wouldn't bounce as, as well.

• 8:07Chuck Nice?

  Gotcha.

• 8:08Gary O'Reilly?

  Does it travel, as, as our question from Howard there was, does it travel better on the ice because of the fact it's frozen?

• 8:15Speaker 02

  Uh, technically, yes, but I think it's very close. It would be imperceptible. If you, if, unless you use a very warm puck, then it might stick to the ice more. But usually room temperature versus, you know, zero degrees or minus 10, it would not make a big difference. But the bounce effect, yes, you can measure that.

• 8:35Chuck Nice?

  So it's, it's, it's really to deaden the puck so it doesn't bounce around. That's the main. Reason. Yes. All right. Got you. Wow, that was a great question, and I learned something about that I had no idea that they actually used frozen pucks. That's really kind of cool. Hey, hey, thanks a lot, Howard.

• 8:51Gary O'Reilly?

  Question up again from Facebook. TJ Carroll. I was wondering if you could help me understand which puck would have more velocity? A puck sliding on the ice that's spinning. Oh, here we go. Or a puck sliding on the ice that's not spinning? Which one would go further? And why? Okay, Alan, you're up again.

• 9:12Speaker 02

  That was a great question.

• 9:13Gary O'Reilly?

  Wasn't it?

• 9:14Speaker 02

  Um, yes, it made me think a lot, actually. Um, and at first, it looks very complicated to answer that, but you can use a principle called the conservation of energy to, um, guess that, uh, the spinning puck would have more friction. It would lose more, uh, kinetic energy from rubbing more against the ice.

• 9:36Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  It travels, right?

• 9:38Chuck Nice?

  Because it's rubbing, it's rubbing the ice two ways. It's rubbing the ice in its forward motion, but it's also rubbing the ice in its circular spinning motion.

• 9:47Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 9:47Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  Right, and so that would extract energy from, uh, its, uh, linear motion. So it would technically slow down, uh, faster. Now, what's interesting, though, is that it would always stop spinning and moving at the same time.

• 10:03Chuck Nice?

  Really? So now, so from a, uh, uh, and I suppose this is a mathematical equation that would, that would determine this. So no matter how hard you hit it, or how far it travels. As it is spinning, the resistance that comes from its linear motion and its circular motion, that resistance will cause the puck to stop spinning and stop moving at the exact same time every single time.

• 10:31Speaker 02

  Yes, now to explain that, to explain that, you need a big equation.

• 10:36Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 10:37Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 10:38Chuck Nice?

  Just how big, we've only got so much time for the show.

• 10:40Speaker 02

  That's right, that's right. But, for instance, in curling, you would see a stone rotating and it will never, you'll never see a curling stone stop and keep spinning for a little while.

• 10:53Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  Or you'll never see it stop rotating and still travel, you know, slide on the ice. It will always stop both motions at the same time.

• 11:03Chuck Nice?

  Right, right. And, and, and, and what a shame in hockey that we don't have a guy with a broom in front of the puck every single time to make sure that... It's not a job you'd volunteer for, not at all.

• 11:16Chuck Nice?

  Which, by the way, you're a Canadian, what's the deal with curling? Okay? What, I mean, seriously? That's Scottish, but that's a Scottish sport, isn't it? Is that really a Scottish sport?

• 11:24Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 11:25Chuck Nice?

  Why do the Canadians love it so much? Got ice in it.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 11:30Chuck Nice?

  Just because it's got ice. Limited options, okay, there you go.

• 11:36Chuck Nice?

  We do love Canada, so please do not be offended by our lame jokes. Well, that's fascinating stuff, Professor, I love that. And we gotta look up that equation that I won't understand for one second. Here we go, let's go with Sheldon Novak from Facebook says, "Professor, why do my Winnipeg Jets always suck each year? Not necessarily a scientific question, but since you are a hockey goalie, maybe you could tell us why the Winnipeg Jets suck every year?"

• 12:09Speaker 02

  Yes, well, I don't want to offend anybody, but, you know, if you look at general Canadian NHL teams, they have not done extremely well. The last team to win the Stanley Cup was 24 years ago in 1993. And that's been a topic of discussion in Canada.

• 12:35Chuck Nice?

  And could it be, let me just, let me just, if I might. Is this a scientific or non-scientific theory? You know what, this is just, this is just a postulate that I'm, a hypo- a hypo- a hypothesis I'm putting forward. Go on then. Could it be because there is an immense talent drain from Canada to America when it comes to the NHL? Now, if I grew up in Canada, everyone grows up in Canada with a parakeet strapped to their feet. So it is. And a stick in their hand, okay? That's all there is to it. And then you say, oh wait, I'm good enough to play professional hockey. Two things happen. One, do I want to stay where I've lived my entire life? Or do I want to go someplace new and exciting like America?

• 13:20Chuck Nice?

  So you go to America, which leaves less talent in Canada. And therefore, the Canadian teams don't fare as well because all the best Canadian talent is playing in America.

• 13:34Speaker 02

  Um, there is some of that, but don't forget that the players don't always choose where they play. It's like the NBA or the NFL to get drafted by teams. Now, uh, you know, Canadian teams are seven out of thirty now. And if you calculate the odds, uh, there's a certain odd that every year a Canadian team has certain odds of, uh, of winning the Stanley Cup.

• 13:57Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 13:58Speaker 02

  It's a, it would be extremely unlikely. I think the chances, if somebody had made a bet in nineteen ninety-three, that twenty-four years from now, there would not be a single, uh, Canadian NHL team to win the Stanley Cup. The odds against that were like ninety-nine point nine percent.

• 14:13Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  So something happened. I mean, there are Canadians, uh, in, um, Canadians hockey team. It's, uh, I think it's equally distributed.

• 14:21Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  I think it, I think it might have to do with the, uh, the exchange rate perhaps. It's, uh, it's more expensive to play, uh, star players in Canada because Canadian dollars versus US dollars. There's also a big difference in the environment where those, uh, players, uh, operate.

• 14:39Speaker 02

  If you're in Montreal and you don't score for three games, then you're pretty much front page news.

• 14:46Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  If you're in Tampa Bay and you have a drought, nobody

• 14:49Chuck Nice?

  Nobody cares.

• 14:50Speaker 02

  hears about you, yeah. So there might be this added pressure where, you know, it's harder to perform under, in environments where people are scrutinizing you all the time.

• 15:00Chuck Nice?

  I got you.

• 15:01Gary O'Reilly?

  Sheldon, it might just be the fact that there's got jets in the name.

• 15:04Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 15:05Gary O'Reilly?

  If you think about the New York Jets.

• 15:06Chuck Nice?

  I was gonna say, same problem, New York.

• 15:08Gary O'Reilly?

  NFL, not quite working for them either, just offering that up as a theory, got no scientific evidence, of course.

• 15:13Chuck Nice?

  Last great Jets, Penny and the Jets, there you go.

• 15:15Gary O'Reilly?

  All right, yes, big Hilton John fans in the house, yes. All right, next up, Mike Cop again on Facebook, why is it the puck travels faster, closer to the ice than it does in the air? At least, he says, that's what they say during the skills competition. Do we agree?

• 15:34Chuck Nice?

  Now, is he talking about the puck is still off of the ice? So it's traveling above the ice as opposed to higher up in the air? Because if it's, it travels faster in the air than on the ice because of the amount of friction, correct? Because even though ice is slippery, the air provides far less friction than ice, thereby making the puck faster.

• 15:59Gary O'Reilly?

  So the closer to the ice, the air's going to be cooler than air...

• 16:03Chuck Nice?

  No, what I'm saying is, is he, is that what he's saying?

• 16:06Gary O'Reilly?

  Or is there something else going on?

• 16:07Chuck Nice?

  Is he saying that he's, is the question, the puck is still off the ice? And so the higher up you go, the slower it gets? Is that what he's saying? Because otherwise, it doesn't make sense to me, the question doesn't make sense.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's true that they say that, and I believe it's a technical thing, because the radar that measures the speed is at ice level. Now, the radar only measures the speed of an oncoming object.

• 16:35Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 16:36Speaker 02

  So if it's coming, if the radar is here and then the puck is coming this way.

• 16:39Chuck Nice?

  Mm hmm.

• 16:40Speaker 02

  And it's not gonna measure it.

• 16:42Gary O'Reilly?

  It's rising up from the ice.

• 16:43Chuck Nice?

  So, so, yes, that's what it is. So the puck on an angle, if the puck is coming off the ice at a forty five degree angle. What happens is the radar only measures it for a period of time that it's oncoming and then it's kind of above the radar or as they would say.

• 16:59Gary O'Reilly?

  So I suppose, so I suppose what you're saying, Professor, is if it's traveling in a directly linear approach towards the radar, it's going to be faster. If it's rising from ice up, say it goes over the, the goal.

• 17:09Chuck Nice?

  It's about.

• 17:10Gary O'Reilly?

  Then the, the radar is gonna see it as a slower object because there's an angle involved in the way it travels.

• 17:16Speaker 02

  That's right. And that's exactly what happens with the, uh, police radars as well. So if you, if you're just moving across a police, uh, who's parked, he's not gonna measure your real speed. It's gonna measure a component of their fraction.

• 17:29Gary O'Reilly?

  So for all of us living, listening to this in the future, use your flying car. Exactly. We've got to the same place at the same time.

• 17:34Chuck Nice?

  Right. Just make sure you're on angle when you get, when the cops pop you one. That's great. All right, man, that's very cool. Well, that, that's good to know. That's good to know.

• 17:42Gary O'Reilly?

  Professor, please, Alan Hesey, you are going to stay with us. We are going to take a break. And when we come back, we will take more of your questions about the physics of hockey. Physics on ice with the good professor himself. This is Playing with Science and we'll be right back.

• 18:01Gary O'Reilly?

  Welcome back. I'm Gary O'Reilly.

• 18:02Chuck Nice?

  And I'm Chuck Nice.

• 18:03Gary O'Reilly?

  This is Playing with Science and today we are taking your questions about hockey. You may already heard us call it physics on ice because that's exactly what it is. And to make sure we give you the best answers to what are some brilliant questions, we have Professor Alan Hesey, author of Slapshot Science and the Physics of Hockey and Professor of Physics at Moncton University in Canada. Right.

• 18:28Chuck Nice?

  And already we've learned some really cool stuff like the number one, they freeze pucks in, uh, professional games.

• 18:34Gary O'Reilly?

  Mm hmm.

• 18:34Chuck Nice?

  Did not know that.

• 18:35Gary O'Reilly?

  And flying cars couldn't evade a speed radar.

• 18:37Chuck Nice?

  Avoid radar detection. So, uh.

• 18:40Gary O'Reilly?

  Every day's a school. Yep, it's gone. So, again from Facebook, Lance in Topeka, I believe KS is Kansas. Right, I like this question. Hello, science advocates. Oh, I like this, it's even better. How is it possible for the glass to protect fans from direct hits from the puck? Yet I have seen players check through it. What forces are responsible for this? Okay, Professor?

• 19:06Chuck Nice?

  That's a good one, Professor.

• 19:07Gary O'Reilly?

  Let's have the, okay, I like that question.

• 19:08Chuck Nice?

  Do we know what the glass is made of? Is it something like Lexan or one of those type of composites where it's not really? First of all, it's not glass. That's number one. So, do we know what the glass is made of?

• 19:20Speaker 02

  They tend to be nowadays Plexiglas. They changed it from tempered glass, which used to be very rigid and heavy. So, the players would hit against it and feel really a lot of pain because it doesn't move very well. Plexiglas is more flexible, so it'll absorb some of the shock as well. Now, you've seen those footages sometimes, puck will hit the net and then it'll just shatter in all like millions of bits and that's tempered glass. Plexiglas would never do that.

• 19:49Chuck Nice?

  Ah, okay.

• 19:51Speaker 02

  Now, would the body go through? Yes, if, you know, with momentum, a large body will just keep going through. Whereas the puck will tend to stop, most of its speed would be lost there. So, yeah, it's called safety glass for that reason. It will stop pucks and, but, you know, bodies will go through.

• 20:12Gary O'Reilly?

  What sort of speed does a guy at about 220 pounds need to be going before he ends up in row two with the spectator?

• 20:23Speaker 02

  It's a difficult question to answer because I think most of the time they break, it's a flaw in the glass. Sometimes it doesn't take that much.

• 20:33Gary O'Reilly?

  Ah.

• 20:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:35Chuck Nice?

  Right, okay.

• 20:35Gary O'Reilly?

  One of life's imperfections.

• 20:37Chuck Nice?

  There you go. All right, well, let's take the next question from Gregory Schmegery.

• 20:43Chuck Nice?

  Gregory Schmegary coming from Instagram and his real name is Greg Dimitrakos.

• 20:51Gary O'Reilly?

  From Toronto.

• 20:52Chuck Nice?

  And he's from Toronto and he says this.

• 20:54Gary O'Reilly?

  This is how you start every question.

• 20:56Chuck Nice?

  What's that?

• 20:57Gary O'Reilly?

  I love the show, guys.

• 20:58Chuck Nice?

  There you go.

• 20:59Gary O'Reilly?

  That's how you get your question on, just FYI.

• 21:01Chuck Nice?

  Tell me the colder, uh, tell me, the colder ice gets, the harder it gets too, right? So how cold is too cold? If ice was absolute zero, would it be like trying to skate on glass? Thanks a lot. So, uh, first of all, ice at an absolute zero, wow. I mean, uh, could you play hockey on ice and at an absolute zero, which I believe is minus two hundred and seventy-three degrees Kelvin?

• 21:27Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 21:27Chuck Nice?

  Um, what happens to ice at minus two hundred and seventy-three degrees Kelvin? And is there any way to skate on it, professor?

• 21:38Speaker 02

  I'm not sure anyone has ever tried. Um, even the coldest of Canadian nights, um, we don't reach those temperatures. Uh, but, um, I was mentioning about, uh, this, uh, quasi-fluid layer of water that exists, um, on top of the ice and it's just a few molecules in depth.

• 21:57Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 21:58Speaker 02

  Uh, and that's what gives ice its slipperiness. Even a light object, even if you don't have pressure melting or frictional melting, you still have this surface that is slippery. That's why a puck, for instance, can glide easily.

• 22:11Gary O'Reilly?

  Right.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  Now, that semi-wet layer, uh, exists down to temperatures, uh, around minus two hundred degrees Celsius and at zero, at zero degree, uh, nothing moves and there would be.

• 22:23Chuck Nice?

  Nothing moves. So that molecular, that molecular vibration that you're talking about on the semi-wet layer, that would cease to exist because if nothing moves at minus two seventy-three Kelvin, then that vibration stops, right?

• 22:36Speaker 03

  That's right, there's no vibration, everything is frozen, so it would be just skating on, trying to skate on plastic or floor or something, it wouldn't work.

• 22:44Chuck Nice?

  And by the way, I kept saying 273, minus 273 Kelvin, it's zero Kelvin minus 273 Fahrenheit, right, or Celsius?

• 22:54Speaker 03

  Yes, correct.

• 22:55Chuck Nice?

  Yes, okay.

• 22:55Gary O'Reilly?

  Not to layman is cold.

• 22:57Chuck Nice?

  Which, right, to everybody else is, damn!

• 23:00Speaker 03

  Cold.

• 23:00Gary O'Reilly?

  But you know, someone, someone's gonna think, "I'm going out in this." There'll be one person that says, "I'm going out in this, I'll show you."

• 23:09Chuck Nice?

  Absolutely. Wow, so that's interesting, so since nothing moves, you couldn't skate on it?

• 23:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, it would be, uh, there, there's no liquid, the, the liquid does not exist there, and it would be, I, it's hard to say what would be the friction coefficient, but it, you know, most materials that we know, uh, would be, you know, impossible to skate on, and that would be ice as well.

• 23:32Gary O'Reilly?

  So we're talking about this, this layer, um, you know, the molecular vibration, but how would the pressure, would it not, would the skate not be able to make that, that groove, that cut into the surface, is that what you're saying now?

• 23:48Speaker 03

  You, you mean like if you apply pressure that would squeeze out that?

• 23:51Gary O'Reilly?

  Correct, correct.

• 23:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:53Gary O'Reilly?

  Would that then just, that wouldn't be viable?

• 23:56Speaker 03

  No, uh, because, uh, that's a great question, but, uh, it's just so thin that nothing can really squeeze it out.

• 24:04Gary O'Reilly?

  Gotcha.

• 24:04Speaker 03

  I mean, the physics of it, just, it would not squeeze out, no.

• 24:08Chuck Nice?

  Would not squeeze out, man, all right. Hey, well, uh, let me tell you, Gregory Schmeggery, it's a damn good question.

• 24:13Gary O'Reilly?

  I think, I think we got two answers in one there, because Eric Johansson from Empirical on Twitter asked, "Why is I slippery?" Eric, I think your answer just arrived.

• 24:24Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 24:24Gary O'Reilly?

  Uh, I hope you're happy. And Gregory Schmeggery?

• 24:26Chuck Nice?

  And the answer is magic, Eric, that's the answer.

• 24:29Gary O'Reilly?

  That's it, it always is.

• 24:30Chuck Nice?

  It's magic.

• 24:30Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 24:31Chuck Nice?

  There's no science.

• 24:32Gary O'Reilly?

  There's no such thing as luck, and there's no science, no. Right.

• 24:37Gary O'Reilly?

  All right, I love this. Here we go. Simon, I'm guessing it's Simon for one simple reason. Lavalier, Lavalier, my apologies if I'm strangling your name. From a farmer village in QC, Canada. And this comes from Facebook. Knowing that the weight of a skater on the blades causes pressure and heat so the ice melts. The blades carve the ice and allow the skater to move. What would happen if the ice didn't melt under the blades? Well, we may have already had that answer.

• 25:08Chuck Nice?

  I think we already got that answer.

• 25:09Gary O'Reilly?

  Unless you've got anything to add to that, Professor?

• 25:13Speaker 02

  No, ice is slippery. It would be fairly slippery, but it's sure, it does help. The fact that it does melt underneath and also frictional melting also occurs, it does help. So it might be a little bit harder if it didn't melt. But I mean, again, if you look at a puck sliding on the ice, it goes quite easily as well.

• 25:32Chuck Nice?

  So it may cause some difficulty, but it would be negligible, right?

• 25:40Speaker 02

  That would be my guess, yes.

• 25:42Chuck Nice?

  Okay, all right, cool. All right, well, let's move on with Jeff Stasercik. Stas Starchek, that's his name.

• 25:52Gary O'Reilly?

  Now you know why I didn't ask this question.

• 25:55Chuck Nice?

  Okay, Jeff Stas Starchek. Okay, I'm gonna say that's your name, Jeff. And if it isn't, you better damn well change it to that.

• 26:03Gary O'Reilly?

  We're going with Jeff.

• 26:05Chuck Nice?

  Let's go with Jeff. There have been a lot of complaints from professional players about ice conditions in arenas throughout the league. What conditions are optimal both for speed and minimal ice degradation? So we've heard of fast ice and slow ice. What makes fast ice? What makes slow ice? And what is the optimal condition for the best skating ice?

• 26:28Speaker 03

  Yep, so you have certain conditions such as temperature. You want, you don't want too close to zero degrees Celsius because then the ice becomes soft. It might be a little bit more slippery, but because it's soft, the skate will dig deeper into it. It'll slow you down. At the other extreme, if it's too cold, it's hard, that's nice, it doesn't dig as much. But then it becomes less slippery because that layer I was talking to you about before. So the optimal temperature is somewhere around minus seven degrees Celsius, plus or minus a few. There's other environmental factors such as humidity. You don't want a lot of humidity to, that would also influence the ice quality.

• 27:14Speaker 03

  And of course, you want to repair it well between periods. If you have a machine, Zamboni, that is not properly tuned or something, that would also not help.

• 27:25Gary O'Reilly?

  So, hang on a minute, one second, Professor. You tune a Zamboni?

• 27:29Chuck Nice?

  You tune a Zamboni?

• 27:30Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, so I'm thinking of the Ferrari-type Zamboni.

• 27:35Chuck Nice?

  Actually, that's a, I don't even want to see hockey anymore.

• 27:37Gary O'Reilly?

  No, I just want the, I want Zamboni races.

• 27:40Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 27:40Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, okay, we've diverged into a tangent here. You talked about humidity, so ironically, if you've got a team in the southern states, fans coming into the stadium are going to bring humidity with them because if they're going to play at a certain time of the year, they just can't help it. Hot, warm air and humidity is going to be coming in with them.

• 27:57Chuck Nice?

  Even the body heat of the people in the stadium is going to create a certain amount of humidity, just from that, right?

• 28:04Speaker 03

  True, and it becomes a little bit harder. So yeah, your machines have to work harder. I mean, the compressors and the refrigeration systems, they have to, you know, to work extra to keep the ice cold enough, yeah.

• 28:17Gary O'Reilly?

  So, picking up on Jeff's question, optimal conditions. During a game, will the ice condition not change? Because at the beginning, in a particular style of play, they'll cut the ice up a little bit, they'll make that surface a little bit rougher. And so during a period, you'll find conditions and the way a team or a player will actually play change as the conditions change, is that right?

• 28:45Speaker 03

  Not so much as the type of play will change, but there will be snow, snow will accumulate. And when you go into overtime, for instance, they like to, you know, squiggy out a little bit. During the shootouts as well, they clean up the middle of it. Because with snow on the ice, you get, you get the puck slowing down as well. So you don't want that to happen.

• 29:12Chuck Nice?

  Well, you do, because you're a goalie.

• 29:14Speaker 03

  Yes, that helps. Or maybe not. The worst situations I have ever seen involved, I think it was in Buffalo. And it was an outdoor game with Sidney Rosby, and there was a lot of snow on the ice. And it made the play very difficult. But indoor, you would never get to that level.

• 29:34Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay, for those who don't know, snow is a technical term for the ice that gets carved up and shaving.

• 29:40Speaker 03

  Shaving, yes.

• 29:41Chuck Nice?

  Yes, from the blades of these skates. Like a snow cone, or if you are Latino, epiragua.

• 29:50Gary O'Reilly?

  Is that another one of your words of the day?

• 29:52Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, yeah. Actually, it's a very good thing in the summertime here in New York City. You might find a guy standing out in the middle of the street with a big block of ice. And he takes a plane, and he has a blade on it, and he shaves it, shaves it, shaves it. Puts it in the cup, puts some flavored syrup on top of it. And it's called a biabbeep, beep, beep. Now I can't even say it. Beep, beep, beep, damn it. Piragua, that's what it is, piragua.

• 30:17Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes, just like the treat itself, worth waiting for. Right, moving on to our next question. Brad, guest from Facebook. Hi folks, hi Brad. Just wondering what the actual contact surface of fresh skate blade has with the ice? And what is the decrease, decrease of its drag coefficient? Here we go, technical stuff. Averaged out over the course of a game? Has anyone done such a survey? Well, there's only one person who answers this, the professor of physics and hockey player, Alan Hachey. So professor, your thoughts on this question?

• 30:50Speaker 03

  It is not very long. I mean, if you look at the underneath of a skate blade, it's kind of rounded like this. And the portion that actually touches, you're looking at maybe 10 centimeters, a couple of inches.

• 31:03Gary O'Reilly?

  Wow.

• 31:04Speaker 03

  And yeah, over the course of a game, it would not, the...

• 31:10Speaker 02

  The drag coefficient would not necessarily decrease. If anything, it would increase because of the shavings or the snow on the ice. It would be, you know, it would increase.

• 31:23Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 31:24Speaker 02

  Typically, that was, that's what you see.

• 31:26Chuck Nice?

  Right, you're, you're, you're, the blades, you're gonna, it's gonna slow you down. It's not, the drag coefficient is gonna increase, not, not decrease. Cause you have, you have an extra, I don't know what you would call it. It's the same material, but it's in a different form on the ice. And now you're traveling over top of that as well.

• 31:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, correct.

• 31:43Chuck Nice?

  Okay. And let me ask you something.

• 31:45Gary O'Reilly?

  Go ahead, go ahead.

• 31:45Chuck Nice?

  I'm sorry, I just, because this question just made me think about when you said the ice is rounded. So that there's just really a little bit of the surface of the skate that, I'm not ice. The skate blade is rounded on a hockey.

• 31:56Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 31:57Chuck Nice?

  So why is the skate blade rounded on hockey? But then on the figure skates, they're like a long, flat blade. Why, why do they round the hockey blades like that? Because figure skaters seem to have a great deal of agility and mobility on the ice. What is the purpose of doing that?

• 32:20Speaker 02

  The figure skating blades is not, actually not that flat. Uh, it, it looks a little bit like a hockey blade. What is flatter though is those speed skaters.

• 32:32Chuck Nice?

  Ah.

• 32:33Speaker 02

  They have actually perfectly flat blades. And that is to prevent the blade to dig into the ice and slow you down.

• 32:42Chuck Nice?

  Ah.

• 32:42Speaker 02

  What it prevents you from doing though is to making very sharp turns. And that's why the hockey blade is, is rounded. Because it allows you to take a small radius turn, right? But for the speed skaters, they're, they're going around a large oval. So for them, they don't have to.

• 33:00Chuck Nice?

  And their blades are very, their blades are long and flat. And they almost look like a straight razor you use on your face.

• 33:05Gary O'Reilly?

  NASCAR on ice. Yeah, go around that oval track. Here, Alan, maybe you can, how, how often will a player change blades? During periods or maybe one or two games? It's, does it depend on an individual and how they play? And what reasoning is behind that?

• 33:23Speaker 02

  Well, if you're, I assume you're asking about professional players?

• 33:27Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, correct, yes, sorry, yes.

• 33:29Speaker 02

  Amateur would not, yes.

• 33:30Gary O'Reilly?

  Professional guys, because they have a blade minion, a blade butler, whatever it is they have that deals with that especially for them.

• 33:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, they will sharpen them regularly within a game, between periods, quite often, indeed. How many times can you sharpen before you want to throw them out? I would imagine a couple of games, because you know, every time you take a little bit of the blade, then you change the shape a little bit. So they wouldn't last more than a couple of games, I would think.

• 34:02Chuck Nice?

  It's like NBA players with their sneakers.

• 34:04Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:05Chuck Nice?

  You know how they change their sneakers, like every other game, or some of them, every game?

• 34:10Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah. Have I had a good game? Have I had a great game? Great game, footwear stays. Bad game, trash.

• 34:17Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 34:18Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, never allow people to tell you sports, men and women are not superstitious. Oh, and then something, there's a show. There is definitely a show. Right. Moving on and out of this world, Professor, I hope you can stay with us for the Space Age travel. Space Games Federation, I should salute. Yes, this is on Twitter. What are the physics of playing ice hockey on Mars? Could we skate like the boys in Helium's Red Planet? Hmm. All right, so, are you up for this one, Professor? Skate, ice skating on Mars?

• 34:55Speaker 02

  I like those crazy questions.

• 34:58Gary O'Reilly?

  Then you're in the right place.

• 34:59Speaker 02

  It's interesting. The main difference between here and Mars would be that on Mars you had about forty percent of the gravity.

• 35:10Gary O'Reilly?

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:11Speaker 02

  Funny thing is, like, you might think, okay, you'll feel lighter, so you'll go quicker, but in fact, that would slow you down, because you would not be able to exploit friction as much. Friction force, yeah. So you would tend, like, you know, people you've seen on the moon cannot run as fast as on Earth, because you just bounce off the surface so easily. So you would not be able to accelerate as much, in my opinion. Of course, I haven't tried, but this would be my best guess, is that it would slow the game.

• 35:42Chuck Nice?

  Well, you're right, because I got to tell you, I have been to Mars, and you're absolutely correct. You know, no.

• 35:47Gary O'Reilly?

  Um.

• 35:48Chuck Nice?

  But you know what's that's funny. I never thought of it that way. You're right. The exploiting the friction. It's like when you get on a toboggan. Well, I don't know if you've I'm sure you have, but if you race your friends in a sled race or toboggan race.

• 35:59Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 36:00Chuck Nice?

  You gotta make sure you got a fat guy on your team. You need that fat guy in the back of that toboggan so that you can have the weight so that you can get down the hill faster. Uh, you know, uh, uh, it's same, same type of, right? Same type of premise, I hope.

• 36:15Gary O'Reilly?

  So rear engine toboggan.

• 36:17Chuck Nice?

  Or maybe my tobogganing, uh, uh, strategies have been wrong all this time and we were just lucky, you know, that we had this guy Thaddeus who was just big and fat and, uh, and always helped us win our toboggan races. But I'm not sure.

• 36:30Gary O'Reilly?

  Um, neither am I. Right. Uh, you don't have to answer that question, Professor. That one you can just let slide on by there, pun intended. Right. Ian Treat, Treat82 on Twitter. All right. What other sports would you like to see on ice and why? I'd like to see soccer on ice so it could be finally be a manly game. Oh, my word. I've got sorts of, I've, yeah, yeah, that's, that's, that's gonna evoke an answer for me, but.

• 36:58Chuck Nice?

  Already know Gary is a former professional footballer. He is a professional soccer player.

• 37:03Gary O'Reilly?

  So. Past tense, past tense.

• 37:05Chuck Nice?

  Who wrote that? Who wrote that?

• 37:06Gary O'Reilly?

  This is Ian Treel.

• 37:08Chuck Nice?

  Ian, man.

• 37:09Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, no, no. Good question. So Alan, Professor, you're up first. What other sports would you, and this is a personal question.

• 37:16Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 37:16Gary O'Reilly?

  Would like to see played on ice? Could be anything.

• 37:21Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm not sure. Um, there's different possibilities, but, uh, for sure you don't want to see diving because diving has to be on melted water.

• 37:31Chuck Nice?

  Well done, sir.

• 37:32Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, Alan, you brought the funnies. I like it, sir. Yeah.

• 37:37Speaker 02

  Boxing on ice already exists. That's called hockey. Uh, what else?

• 37:41Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, this is good.

• 37:43Chuck Nice?

  I gotta tell you what would be fun is wiffle ball. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's which is a form like baseball, but you don't, you don't have to knock the ball that far. So you use a wiffle ball so the ball can't go that far. And it's, you know, you get a little baseball game on ice. That'd be kind of cool.

• 37:56Gary O'Reilly?

  I, I kind of like the idea of having basketball. Just to see men trying to rebound. And.

• 38:01Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 38:02Gary O'Reilly?

  That might have, that, that would evoke a little bit of contact.

• 38:06Chuck Nice?

  Ball handling might be a little difficult though. Like, you know what I mean?

• 38:09Gary O'Reilly?

  They'd have to wear gloves.

• 38:10Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, you have to.

• 38:11Gary O'Reilly?

  It's gonna be cold hands, cold hands. All right, let's go back to, to the question and it was, uh. Ian Treel, so as for soccer not being manly, you are referring to the modern games, sir. Um, back in the day, which would be my day, which was many decades ago, um. Soccer played in England would have been something more akin to rollerball. If you've ever seen that movie.

• 38:37Gary O'Reilly?

  Bones got broken. It was more like hockey than anything you'll watch played right now, but, uh. Good question. Hopefully we've given you a good answer.

• 38:46Chuck Nice?

  In other words, uh, Ian, what Gary was trying to say is I will punch you in the face. That's what he was really trying to say.

• 38:54Gary O'Reilly?

  No, no, not at all. We, we love our listeners and, you know, there were times.

• 38:58Chuck Nice?

  It'd be a punch of love.

• 38:59Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah. That, there would be times during a soccer game back in the eighties where players would viciously attack an opponent's elbow with their nose.

• 39:08Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 39:08Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 39:09Chuck Nice?

  Exactly.

• 39:11Gary O'Reilly?

  For those of you can work that one out, well done. All right, what else do we have question wise?

• 39:15Chuck Nice?

  No, that's it.

• 39:16Gary O'Reilly?

  That's it?

• 39:17Chuck Nice?

  We are done. We are out of time and this has been truly a pleasure when Professor Alan Hachshay. Hey, Professor, thanks again for, uh, all of your insights and being on the show with us, man.

• 39:26Gary O'Reilly?

  We're gonna take our next break, uh. You're gonna wanna stick around for this because up next we bring you the players perspective with Colin Wilson, left winger. Yes, left winger with Nashville Predators and he, because it's a special treat for everybody. We're gonna bring in the big guy. Yes, Dr. Tyson will be in the house. Stay tuned. We're back shortly.

• 39:51Gary O'Reilly?

  Welcome back, I'm Gary O'Reilly.

• 39:53Chuck Nice?

  And I'm Chuck Nice.

• 39:54Gary O'Reilly?

  And this is Playing with Science. Yes, it is. And today, we're exploring the realm of physics on ice, aka ice hockey. Joining us by phone is Colin Wilson of the Nashville Predators. Yes, that Colin Wilson. Colin, welcome to the show, sir.

• 40:12Chuck Nice?

  Hey, yeah, thanks for having me on. It's a pleasure, Colin. Thank you for being here. And in addition to Colin, here in the studio, we have, when you talk about science, physics, astrophysics, you name it, his name is synonymous. I don't think he needs an introduction.

• 40:26Gary O'Reilly?

  Let's do it.

• 40:27Chuck Nice?

  Let's do it. It's the man, the myth, the legend, Neil deGrasse Tyson.

• 40:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Thank you, thank you. I didn't, I didn't know I was a myth.

• 40:36Chuck Nice?

  Yes, I'm telling you, you are a myth. You don't exist, Neil. You are a hologram that the universe has created.

• 40:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm delighted to lay down some physics wherever, you know, you put up the physics bat signal

• 40:49Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 40:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  in the sky, and I'm happy to show up.

• 40:51Gary O'Reilly?

  You answered the call. You answered the call.

• 40:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Physics and everything, so we'll, we'll just, we'll just hear, hear about this play.

• 40:58Chuck Nice?

  Oh man, could you, could you actually do every answer like Batman, where you're just like, cosmic background radiation?

• 41:06Gary O'Reilly?

  Batman, no, which Batman do you want? Which version?

• 41:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You need to mean, you need the one that needs a, a recola. You need, you want that one.

• 41:13Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, exactly. That's, uh, wait, what is his name?

• 41:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All of them. All the one after a certain point.

• 41:17Gary O'Reilly?

  No, who's the? The Adam West version.

• 41:19Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, the one, no, the one who played American Psycho. What's his name?

• 41:23Gary O'Reilly?

  Christian Bale.

• 41:24Chuck Nice?

  Christian Bale, thank you, thank you. Yeah, that's the guy. That's the Batman.

• 41:27Gary O'Reilly?

  Got a question right.

• 41:28Chuck Nice?

  Anyway, so here we go, guys.

• 41:30Gary O'Reilly?

  Do the clip.

• 41:31Chuck Nice?

  What we're gonna do right now, because we have Colin Wilson on the line, who is, by the way, a third generation professional hockey player.

• 41:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's a thing.

• 41:41Chuck Nice?

  That's, that's amazing.

• 41:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wow.

• 41:43Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, so Colin, your grandfather was a professional hockey player, right?

• 41:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, he uh, he played two, two uh, two games for the Montreal Canadiens before having to retire, uh, and then my dad played another 552 games and so I get, uh, got to be the third generation making it.

• 42:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so now do they say to you, uh, you got, you, you youngins got it easy. Back in my day, we didn't wear helmets or face masks or anything. Uh, do, do they like get on your case about that?

• 42:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, my dad definitely does, uh, now that, now that the professional sports have us, uh, chartering, you know, he, he, he used to talk about having to be, you know, Sydney Airport, have connections, things like that. Definitely, uh, he's a little bit more cushy than back in his day.

• 42:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, you're, you're just a bunch of wusses. That's, plus, I'm pretty sure your grandfather had no teeth, is that correct?

• 42:34Speaker 05

  Uh, you know what? He actually, he actually got a hold on to his teeth and he was a fighter, so I don't, I don't know if he had a good dentist and never told me, but he got it retained all.

• 42:43Gary O'Reilly?

  Good bob and weave by the sound of it.

• 42:44Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, look at that. Wow, he's a hockey fighter with all his teeth. Maybe he should have been a boxer.

• 42:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:52Gary O'Reilly?

  All right, let's get this clip going.

• 42:56Chuck Nice?

  All right, let's get the clip. And here's a, for, for those of you who are, um, uh, don't have the, um, pleasure of seeing us on video, uh, this is a clip of Colin Wilson breaking away, uh, with the puck, uh, doing a little pretty stick handling, and then he splits, uh, a defenseman and, uh, gets by him and then does a sweet little top shelf backhand for a goal. So take a listen.

• 43:25Speaker 06

  By Ekholm, predators racing. It's Wilson trying to time it up with Yarncrush. Looks in front, takes it middle. Oh, the backhand, he's scored! What a goal! They're gonna say it didn't go in. Wilson thought he scored, he stopped. National number 15, minor family contributor. Here's the play at the net right here. Colin Wilson stopping right there, guys. You can see clearly that puck gets crossed the line and actually ricochets off the back bar, not the crossbar. So the goal, that's a language we all understand, too. The goal hard goes off to the point on the scoreboard.

• 44:05Chuck Nice?

  There you go. Colin, that had to feel twice as good, right?

• 44:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, it was it was a good feeling and uh yeah, they waved the goal off really quick. I saw it go in, so once they uh finally called it a goal, uh definitely definitely felt a little bit better.

• 44:20Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, yeah, it's like you it's it's for you, it's like the joy of scoring two goals. One once when you do it and then when they say, yeah, you did it. Well, plus, you did you did that so smoothly. It was a yeah, anybody could do that, you know. Yeah, well.

• 44:36Gary O'Reilly?

  That's the elevation of an athlete.

• 44:37Chuck Nice?

  That's the elevation.

• 44:38Gary O'Reilly?

  And when they make something as complicated as that.

• 44:41Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 44:41Gary O'Reilly?

  Look as if, you know what, I'm in my armchair. I could so do that.

• 44:45Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, I could so do that. And and on that particular play, like I said, so uh Colin comes across the net and he juke's a defenseman, fakes another defenseman who was on the other side of the net and the goalie. Yeah. So I mean, does that make you feel even better too, when it's like, you know, it's one thing to get to get a feed from somebody and, you know, make a a a great little, you know, wrist shot or, you know, to do a slap shot and and and, but you know, off of a pass, but when you do it like that, does it give you an extra sense of satisfaction? Because you kind of single-handedly did it yourself.

• 45:21Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, I feel pretty fortunate right now for you to have uh shown me shown probably the nicest goal of my career on this show. Um, yeah, it was.

• 45:30Chuck Nice?

  Downhill from there.

• 45:34Speaker 05

  So it was definitely definitely a good feeling there. Uh, it was it's nice to score pretty goals and uh, you know, you know, have an effort that uh, you know, you yourself, you know, do a lot, so that one that one definitely felt pretty sweet and um, you know, it was it was fortunate to, you know, beat the goalie and make it all work.

• 45:52Gary O'Reilly?

  Colin, from what point when you get the puck, does standard set plays within a certain part of the rink and your just natural innovation take over?

• 46:02Speaker 05

  Um, yeah, it just it just depends, um, yeah, like right right there. Um, I guess, I mean, people talk about being in the zone or something like that. There wasn't a whole lot, a whole lot of thinking. It kind of felt, when you watch the replay, it's actually kind of amazing how quick it, when you watch it, it's like, wow, that happened really quick and things just kind of slowed down for me there. I saw the defenseman putting a stick down, so, you know, I could put it through a stick and um. Yeah, so it's it just becomes yeah, a little bit more of an instinct as opposed to a lot of thought happening.

• 46:32Gary O'Reilly?

  What you've just described there is a heightened sense where until you get in that situation, you the time doesn't slow down, but once you're there, and I think you'll have been in that situation so many times, you're attuned to the fact that you can start to absorb a whole lot of things like where the defenseman skate is, where the stick is, goalkeeper's position, those things, how how much of that has been training? And how much of that is just, you know what, I'm third generation, this is what I've got.

• 46:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I got this in my DNA.

• 47:00Chuck Nice?

  This is in my DNA.

• 47:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  See the hockey stick, hockey stick right there in the DNA?

• 47:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's a double helix, a helix of hockey sticks.

• 47:09Chuck Nice?

  There you go.

• 47:10Gary O'Reilly?

  Composite double helix. Go on, sorry.

• 47:12Speaker 05

  Um, yeah, so I think, um, you know, certainly certainly a lot of it is training. Um, you know, to be able to have the kind of hands to be able to make that play, you know, the shot at the end to be able to get it up. But at the same time, I mean, it's just kind of, um, it is a bit of a human experience, you know, in certain times where the brain kind of just ends up slowing down and things, you know, people describe it as a zone, other people, I don't know, maybe get it from a a meditative standpoint, but um, definitely a little bit of training and a little bit of just kind of, um, yeah, the the way that humans are made, it just kind of slows down, you know, in that in that instance.

• 47:48Chuck Nice?

  Hey, let me ask you, uh, switch gears for a second because, you know, uh, one of the things that we talk about, um, uh, you know, in in in then in hockey, uh, of course, is the importance of the skates, uh, the technical advancements that have been made to skates, uh, recently. And in a game against Minnesota, you actually popped your blade off the skate. You popped your blade off the skate, but here's the thing that really got me. You continued the play on one fricking skate.

• 48:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because I can't.

• 48:22Chuck Nice?

  It's like, so so what I want to know is two things, and then Neil, I want you to maybe, uh, chime in with the actual act of skating on ice from a physics standpoint, and what kind of pressures are being applied. So Colin, for you. Is skating just second nature for you? The fact that, because for you, it looks like the way I walk and the way my shoe feels against the ground is the way you skate and the way your skates feel against the ice.

• 48:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, it's definitely just turned into, yeah, walking, running. Um, you know, it's like riding a bicycle. You kind of never forget. You go out there and, um, yeah, it's just second nature. I mean, I started skating when I was about two years old and 27 now, so 25 years of, 25 years of being out there, you just, uh, you just get used to it, so.

• 49:10Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 49:10Speaker 05

  Um, yeah, you definitely, definitely compared it to, yeah, somebody who likes to run or, uh, something like that.

• 49:16Chuck Nice?

  That's cool. And Neil.

• 49:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 49:17Chuck Nice?

  For skating itself, the act of skating, what are the physics involved in the acts of skating, just to bring some science into this?

• 49:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, I mean, it's, it's almost too much informa- I can tell you, it's almost too much information. Because it's, there's a lot of physics behind why he glides on the ice and any skater glides. And you think we're gliding because it's ice, right? That's, that's the answer we give ourselves.

• 49:40Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 49:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And we're done, but that's not the answer, alright? So, it, it, it has everything in this world to do with pressure. Pressure, phys- the physics of pressure. And pressure is force divided by area, simply. Okay, so pressure and force are not the same thing.

• 49:58Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 49:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, it is why a knife, a sharp knife cuts and a dull knife does not. Alright, if you bring a knife to food and you press down and it cuts easily, you say, oh, that's a sharp knife.

• 50:13Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 50:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because you put a certain force on the blade.

• 50:17Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 50:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And it just cut easily. Now that blade is dull. Now you put the same force on the food and it does not cut.

• 50:24Chuck Nice?

  That is why I did not make it in prison.

• 50:28Chuck Nice?

  Because I had dull knives and they were just like, that guy doesn't know what he's doing.

• 50:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He can't cut.

• 50:34Chuck Nice?

  He can't cut it. So, go ahead, sorry.

• 50:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, what happens is, the area of the cutting edge of the blade is what matters.

• 50:42Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 50:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  A dull blade.

• 50:44Chuck Nice?

  Skates are super sharpened.

• 50:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, well, I'm getting there. So, a dull blade, a dull knife blade

• 50:49Chuck Nice?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  has a bigger surface area than a sharpened knife blade.

• 50:54Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 50:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay?

• 50:55Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 50:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And if pressure is force divided by area.

• 51:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The smaller your area, the bigger the pressure, cuz you're, the smaller the denominator.

• 51:06Chuck Nice?

  Denominator, so, right, so it's almost like, I can't say, I'm saying this wrong, but you'll know what I mean.

• 51:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 51:12Chuck Nice?

  It's almost like by decreasing the area, you're increasing the force, even though you're not really increasing the force.

• 51:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We have a word for that, it's called pressure.

• 51:23Chuck Nice?

  Okay, so you're increasing the pressure, thank you, so I just made it far more difficult than it had to be.

• 51:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  By simply sharpening the blade, you're using the same force and you have a higher pressure.

• 51:32Chuck Nice?

  Higher pressure, right.

• 51:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And it's the pressure that's cutting the food, okay, so now, okay, now you got that.

• 51:38Chuck Nice?

  We got that.

• 51:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You got that, okay, so now.

• 51:39Chuck Nice?

  By the way, I'm really hungry for steak right now.

• 51:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, you wanna cut a steak, so water, okay.

• 51:46Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 51:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right, um, if you cool water.

• 51:51Chuck Nice?

  Yep.

• 51:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And now you bring it to thirty-two degrees and you freeze it.

• 51:55Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 51:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Water, unlike most other ingredients, expands when it freezes.

• 52:01Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 52:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, we know this if you put stuff in your freezer, leave freezing room.

• 52:05Chuck Nice?

  Well, if you've ever filled an ice tray, you know that, you fill it, and then when it freezes, the ice bulges above the ice.

• 52:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It bulges about ten percent above.

• 52:14Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 52:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, this is the same thing, this is why icebergs, there's ten percent floating above water.

• 52:19Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 52:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, ice is less dense than the water from which it came.

• 52:23Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 52:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Cuz it expanded.

• 52:24Chuck Nice?

  All right.

• 52:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's why ice floats.

• 52:26Chuck Nice?

  That's it.

• 52:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Otherwise, ice would sink, okay, so now watch.

• 52:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If you squeeze ice.

• 52:36Chuck Nice?

  Yep.

• 52:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Ice doesn't wanna be squozin'.

• 52:41Chuck Nice?

  It wants to be frozen, but not squozin'. You've just made that word up.

• 52:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I know, but it's a good word, it's a good word, if you squeeze ice.

• 52:48Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 52:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So hard that it cannot withstand the pressure.

• 52:54Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 52:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're trying to squeeze ice into a smaller volume.

• 52:59Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 52:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That is hard to do, it is, in fact, it is so hard, usually you do not succeed, the ice busts out and breaks your pipes.

• 53:06Chuck Nice?

  Absolutely.

• 53:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, you got me there?

• 53:08Chuck Nice?

  I got you.

• 53:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If your pipes have water in them, and there's no playful water in it, it becomes ice, ice is stronger than your metal pipes.

• 53:14Chuck Nice?

  Got you.

• 53:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so now watch, I wanna squeeze ice, it will not let that happen.

• 53:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Unless you have such high force that the ice says, fuck it. I must become smaller vol- smaller volume now. The only way I can do that is to turn back into- Go back to water. Which from whence I came. From whence I came. And so you can turn thirty degree ice into thirty degree water under pressure in an instant. And then it refreezes right back. Right. And once it's, once that pressure isn't there, it refreezes instantly. So now, now, why do you want a sharp skate blade? It's not sharp like a knife. That's stupid. Because it actually has a flat bottom, but it's, and we got our guy still out. Colin, Colin, Colin.

• 54:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Um, when they quote sharpen the blade, it's actually concave. And you, you have the two edges, the left edge and the right edge of the blade. Isn't that correct? Yes, it is. Okay. So, um, so he's either skating on the left edge or the right. He can skate on both edges. Right. He'll have, he'll, he's more nimble if he's on one edge or the other. Okay. So now watch. The sharper that is, his body weight, okay, good ol', good ol' boy hockey player. What do you weigh? Two, what, what do you, two hundred something? What are you? Yeah, two twenty. Two twenty, that's what I figure. Good ol'. Okay. So now he's got two hundred and twenty pounds. Uh huh. If he goes to one side of his blade on one skate, it is two hundred and twenty pounds- On a razor blade. On a razor blade.

• 54:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  On a razor blade. That, that ice has no place to go except melt back, melt into water in that instant. So then that becomes the gliding. That is the glide. That's why he glides. That is why. And the instant his, his blade comes out the, comes out the other side, it refreezes and there's hardly any record of him having done that. There is another theory. Wait, wait, wait. So now, wait a minute. I will pause. So, just so you know, it is possible to be so cold that even those pressures don't melt the ice. And then you cannot skate.

• 55:23Chuck Nice?

  So you can have ice. Hey Colin, have you ever been on ice that felt like you couldn't skate on it because it's been so cold?

• 55:30Gary O'Reilly?

  Too hard.

• 55:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, it's

• 55:30Chuck Nice?

  Too hard.

• 55:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It'd be like a couple hundred degrees below zero.

• 55:33Chuck Nice?

  Oh, well, then forget it. Sorry, Colin, that, sorry, that would mean you wouldn't be talking to us right now because you'd be in a cryogenic state.

• 55:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So this is why you can skate and it's why you can be so nimble. It is why it is slippery for on skate. This is why all of that is the case.

• 55:49Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 55:50Gary O'Reilly?

  So Colin, I know you're a big science fan and, uh, and you can't help it as we all can't. You're a big fan of Niels. Uh, are you conscious of science and maths within your sport naturally? And have you ever found any reason to be using it to advantage in your game?

• 56:07Speaker 05

  Not, not, not necessarily, but, um, we actually see, see nowadays in terms of our recovery and treatment. I actually just came back from, uh, laser treatment. So it's, it's interesting to see how science has developed to, um, in, in terms of training as well as recovery. So, yeah, I mean, there, uh, the theory with the laser is putting, uh, you know, photons bringing energy at the cellular level in order for it to heal. So it's been pretty cool to see, um, science, you, you changing the game. And you also mentioned the way that skate, skates have now developed. Um, yeah, it's, uh, certainly using science more to get you, uh, a little bit faster. And then the training, making you bigger, faster and stronger. So I guess it's, um, you know, applying a little bit more pressure on that ice. So you get a little, uh, you get faster there.

• 56:53Chuck Nice?

  Wow, cool.

• 56:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And one other question I wanted to ask when we were back, when we were talking about your goal. Um, how much active control do you have on the angle off of the ice that you send the puck? So naively you say, oh, they're hitting the puck and it's just sliding along the ice, but you can actually lift the puck arbitrarily to find a hole that's in, that you can see. Isn't that correct?

• 57:20Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 57:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay. So how much control do you actually have?

• 57:24Speaker 05

  So for me, it's a little bit different than, uh, one of the top goal scorers on our team. I mean, there's some guys on that can really hit those, those little areas. Um, and it's an extremely impressive, impressive to watch. But yeah, I mean, everybody, everybody, uh, you know, we'll practice their shot, get it, you know, elevating the puck and. You certainly develop as you get older, more control like on that on that back end. I have a decent decent amount of backhand goals in my career and I control elevation pretty well, getting it up quickly from that backhand position.

• 57:54Chuck Nice?

  Well, you and I have something in common there, Colin.

• 57:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Getting it up in the backhand position.

• 57:59Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 58:03Gary O'Reilly?

  That's just taking it to a new level.

• 58:07Chuck Nice?

  Yes, I did. I'm sorry.

• 58:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What I'm saying is that, of course, ice is slippery. If it's airborne, then the puck is a ballistic projectile.

• 58:14Chuck Nice?

  Right, absolutely, yeah.

• 58:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so, so it would have different mechanics on it than if it's actually sliding on the ice.

• 58:22Chuck Nice?

  Absolutely.

• 58:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's an interesting little fact. I hadn't thought that through.

• 58:25Chuck Nice?

  And it's very cool, like when you what you just said about him, the way you're manipulating the puck, do you do you feel like the stick is an extension of who you are and are and how in touch with with the puck are you when you're stick handling?

• 58:37Speaker 05

  Yes, very, very much. So I'd say it's definitely an extension, definitely an extension of your body. I mean, again, when you've been playing hockey for, I mean, I guess I'm at 25 years now, it just becomes kind of second nature to have a stick in your hand and, you know, you can do some pretty, pretty skillful things when you've been, you know, been at it for a long time. So, I mean, you make those, I mean, it's the same thing as anybody working, you know, working at something for 25 years, you know, you make some pretty cool improvements and I definitely feel like an extension.

• 59:10Gary O'Reilly?

  Colin, before we let you go, and I know you're on a busy schedule on the road, just where do you see the development in hockey, be it through recovery from injury, psychology, from technical and equipment, where do you see the future taking your sport?

• 59:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's it's going to be a scary thing, honestly, how how fast it's going to get. If you go look at, when I go back and look at my dad's age, I mean, it just looks like it looks like.

• 59:35Chuck Nice?

  In slow motion. Yeah, it looks like they were walking around the ice.

• 59:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, right, right.

• 59:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. So in innovations in equipment, in our training, it's in our, yeah, recovery, it's going to be scary to see where the game takes us right now. The top players in the league are all, actually, the best guy is Connor McDavid. He's 19 years old and the way that he moves on the ice and there's a couple of other guys I can mention, Jack Eichel. And they, they just, they grew up training in a different way than us because of the science had improved by the time that they began their training.

• 1:00:09Gary O'Reilly?

  Because you're now an old fart, you're an old fart now at 27.

• 1:00:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, 27, I'm on my way out.

• 1:00:14Gary O'Reilly?

  How interesting.

• 1:00:17Speaker 05

  It'll be, it'll be interesting to see how much faster it really can get because it's certainly, it's really, it's really impressive, these young players that are coming up.

• 1:00:25Chuck Nice?

  Wow, that's cool. Hey, man, well, we are out of time, but hey.

• 1:00:28Gary O'Reilly?

  We're sorry for that. Colin, absolute pleasure. Dude, thanks for doing this for us. Really fabulous for you, to have you on the show. Good luck with the, with remains of the season.

• 1:00:36Chuck Nice?

  Yes, man.

• 1:00:37Gary O'Reilly?

  Absolutely, yeah.

• 1:00:38Chuck Nice?

  All right, buddy, thanks so much, buddy. Wow, that's our show, man. We're out of time and it was fantastic. Neil, you're not even gonna say goodbye, you're just getting up and leaving. Look at Neil, look at Neil. He was like, I cannot wait to get out of here. Dealing with these amateurs.

• 1:00:55Gary O'Reilly?

  And if our listeners didn't know, every day is a school day and will continue to be so in the presence of Dr Neil deGrasse Tyson, who we're so grateful for. How you say such nice things about me all the time? Because you're here in front of us. You're getting ripped to pieces. By the way, there's nothing left of you. That's our show, Chuck.

• 1:01:14Chuck Nice?

  That is our show.

• 1:01:15Gary O'Reilly?

  All right, dude, thanks for having me.

• 1:01:16Chuck Nice?

  Thank you, Neil.

• 1:01:17Gary O'Reilly?

  Thank you.

• 1:01:17Chuck Nice?

  And thanks to Alan Hachey and Colin Wilson.

• 1:01:21Gary O'Reilly?

  Everybody that's been involved, been absolutely brilliant. I wish we could talk more about it, but we've run out of time. Look forward to your company soon. Bye for now.