#ICYMI - American Ninja Warrior: Science, Skills, and Strategy

In case you missed this episode on the Playing with Science channel… Enter the wild, high-flying world of American Ninja Warrior with hosts Gary O’Reilly, Chuck Nice, ANW hosts Matt Iseman and Akbar Gbaja-Biamila, Ninjas Drew Drechsel, Najee Richardson, and Joe Moravsky, and executive producer Anthony Storm. NOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/american-ninja-warrior-science-skills-and-strategy/ Photo Credit: Ben Ratner

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Gary O'Reilly?

  I'm Gary O'Reilly.

• 0:10Chuck Nice?

  And I'm Chuck Nice.

• 0:11Gary O'Reilly?

  And this is Playing With Science. Yep, we've been allowed out of the state. We've crossed state lines and we're on the set of American Ninja Warrior.

• 0:24Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, you may hear some background noises because they are

• 0:27Gary O'Reilly?

  Setting up for a show.

• 0:28Chuck Nice?

  preparing for tonight's broadcast or broadcast taping. So we are going to be joined later in the show by Matt Eisman and Akbar Bajabiamila, who are the hosts of American Ninja Warrior.

• 0:38Gary O'Reilly?

  And we'll also have the executive producer Anthony Storm, Joe Moravsky, and Najee Richardson. Those names familiar? They should be. They are expert ninjas. First, we caught up with American Ninja Warrior's hosts, Matt Eisman and Akbar Bajabiamila. Check it out.

• 0:56Chuck Nice?

  All right, here we are with the hosts of American Ninja Warrior as we stand with the set behind us. Matt Eisman? Yes. Excited? That's right. And Akbar, wait, wait, Bajabiamila. Wakanda forever. Bajabiamila. Bajabiamila. Damn.

• 1:17Speaker 02

  Chuck Nice, you almost got that, man.

• 1:19Chuck Nice?

  Chuck Nice, almost. Oh, yeah. Okay. That's a hard last name to go, though. Yeah, Bajabiamila. Yeah, man. I just got it now. Yeah, all I needed to hear was once. Don't worry, it took Matt like two years to say it. No, it doesn't. When he's that enormous standing next to you, you learn how to say his name very quickly.

• 1:35Gary O'Reilly?

  That's a smart move. So let's focus on what we've got behind us. You guys have been involved from day one, basically? A long time if not?

• 1:42Chuck Nice?

  I started season two, yeah, yeah.

• 1:44Gary O'Reilly?

  What's the evolution been like? And I have to ask you, out of the course designers, which for us are the scientists, and the ninjas, the athletes, who's winning? The geeks or the jocks?

• 1:53Chuck Nice?

  Well, you know, I would call it an even tie because every single year we've elevated our game on the course just because the ninjas have gotten that much better. I'd call it an even tie.

• 2:02Speaker 02

  Well, I would say as we look at the obstacles here, the difficulty level has grown exponentially and that's because the preparation has improved. When we started out, there was one guy who had obstacles in his backyard. Now, anywhere you go in the country, there's going to be a ninja gym. So these obstacles have gotten much harder, but you hit on a very good point about the mental preparation. These athletes don't get to practice, they don't know what they're going to face. So we talk about it all the time. People notice the physical, but it's the mental, it's the problem solving ability, the ability to calculate how to get through the course efficiently, the scientific mind, that's who's really excelling.

• 2:33Gary O'Reilly?

  So what I like about it is they don't get the time to sit and digest and analyze each obstacle. It's really got to be, what are my physical assets? And how good is my strategy?

• 2:43Speaker 03

  Well, you know, I'd say it's like the preparation that they put throughout the year, I think it really comes down to their ability to believe in their subconscious and that all their training will allow them to be able to react and respond. The minute you start second guessing yourself and you start doing all these different things, that's when failure happens. And look, fatigue happens and then all of a sudden you start doubting yourself, whether you can or cannot handle, handle the pressure.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  But from a scientific point of view, what's really interesting is if you run later, you can watch athletes go before you, but everybody's going to be different. So we'll have people from four feet 10 to six foot seven out here, you know, ages 19 to 77. So they're going to be all different body types. So what works for one, you may see someone go through and think that's how I could do it, but physiologically that may not work for you. So people have to go in and say, I know my body type, have a plan of attack, but then be able to adapt on the fly. So it's, it's this unbelievable Rubik's Cube that's going through their head at all times.

• 3:32Chuck Nice?

  Absolutely.

• 3:33Gary O'Reilly?

  You're not alone.

• 3:35Chuck Nice?

  When I look at the course though, I gotta say, as a course designer, I look at it and I'm like ninja, please.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  Yes. That was nice. That was nice.

• 3:45Speaker 03

  That was good.

• 3:46Speaker 02

  That was good.

• 3:46Gary O'Reilly?

  See on TV, I mean, I don't have to put a cup of tea down, I've got cake, it's easy, it's simple.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's the same as hosting. That's what we do.

• 3:54Gary O'Reilly?

  I'm stood on, I'm stood on the starting line and thinking, I'm not making it out of the pool on the first obstacle. It's unbelievable.

• 4:01Speaker 03

  When you get here, it is visually intimidating. I mean, just walking up and think about the ninjas, they've been preparing, they're preparing and they're thinking to themselves when they step on the course, what is it going to be? What is it going to be? What is it going to be? And they don't know until they get here and then they start looking at it and you start psyching yourself out, like how do you do this? What is this? I don't even know the name of it. So it's just, there's all these different. Amazon and there's people there.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 4:22Speaker 03

  Oh, that's a mind blower.

• 4:23Speaker 02

  The lights are at their brightest, you get one shot and you know you've spent the whole year and so it's this thing of it's easy to do it when no one's watching, but as soon as the crowd is there and you see it and you know if I make one mistake, my year is over, that's when the pressure ramps up. That's why mentally it's such a tough, tough sport.

• 4:40Chuck Nice?

  And speaking of that, lights, people watching, one shot. So the other night Akbar did the most incredible thing. I'm talking absolute brilliant media manipulation. This man purposely threw a baseball into the ground so he could end up on the news all over America. Tell me about that.

• 4:59Speaker 03

  Well, you know what? I'd like to probably run with that because right now my athleticism is being questioned all across America. Like, how did he play professional sport and he can't throw? Look, they don't have baseball anymore in the hood, man. I had never, I had never thrown a pitch ever, ever in my life. And I thought, you know, let me just add a little zip to this thing. I'm gonna make it like a 50, 60 miler. You know, now that's not big, that's not impressive. I thought, you know, put a little pop to it and it didn't, I popped everything. I went from cheers to boo. I'm like, oh man. Oh, damn. Philly fans, they're, they're rough, like. Oh, in Philly?

• 5:30Chuck Nice?

  What I love though, what I love is Akbar just blamed his, his messed up pitch on segregated housing.

• 5:38Speaker 02

  He actually went with the, he actually went with the Patriots excuse and he said that the football was deflated and the, the baseball was deflated. So let me ask you guys this, when you look at this course, what is the thing that you think you could do the easiest and what is the thing that you think you could never do? Uh, well, as I've learned, probably none of it. The floating steps, I might have a chance at being a little bit taller, but other than that, anything upper body strength, I'd have zero chance at. I know for this guy, it'd be, well, we're gonna see this guy actually get to compete.

• 6:06Speaker 03

  You're gonna run the course? Oh, man. Yeah, May 24th, Red Nose Day. I've decided to come out of the, the host stand and get on to the course and, and actually take a shot at it. Hopefully I'll get a chance to redeem my athleticism on this run. So.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  But there's no baseballs on the course.

• 6:21Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 6:23Gary O'Reilly?

  If now you mention it, we might bring a few.

• 6:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, but you know, the one that that does look intimidating for me that I always get scared about is like the uh broken bridge. When they're separated and the the the the platform is is losing. Yeah, because you gotta be real. Yeah, when you're heavy and you're like, yeah, you can tear something.

• 6:39Chuck Nice?

  Well, look, if if your run goes like your first pitch did, he'll be dead.

• 6:45Gary O'Reilly?

  But it'll be for a good cause.

• 6:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, good for for a good cause. Lose your your athleticism to raise money.

• 6:51Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 6:52Chuck Nice?

  Well, I think we're gonna actually try the warped wall. Nice. Yeah, I think we're gonna go down there now and we're gonna give it a. Great scientific experiment, and that's one of the ones you need to talk to the ninjas because it's actually a counterintuitive approach. You tend to lean into it and it's actually leaning back about it. So it's a really fun one to watch and analyze.

• 7:08Speaker 03

  And there's a great ninja off camera. And Drew Dreschel, that's Drew Dreschel. They call him the real life ninja. So if you want to know how to run a warped wall, you gotta hit him up.

• 7:18Chuck Nice?

  Hey Drew, come here for a second.

• 7:19Speaker 03

  And Drew taught me how to lachey. This guy taught me how to lachey.

• 7:22Chuck Nice?

  All right. So uh hey, all right. Drew, what's your last name? Dreschel. Drew Dreschel. And so how do we run the warp wall, Drew? Uh, well, first thing you don't want to do is run straight into it. A lot of people have a tendency to keep their chest down. Keep that chest up when you run. Okay. Don't stop running. And when you feel like you can't run anymore, jump up. So basically, you gotta treat it like you're in a cartoon. Just try to run straight up the wall, right? And then reach at the last second. You already sound like you already know what you're doing. No, I'm okay, cool.

• 7:49Gary O'Reilly?

  Have you never seen a cartoon when the when the bunny jumps off the cliff and it doesn't work and everything?

• 7:54Chuck Nice?

  The feet just keep spinning.

• 7:55Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, that'll be him. That'll be Chuck.

• 7:57Chuck Nice?

  Because you don't fall until you look down. So once you look down, then it's over. Just don't look down. All right, I'm gonna take your advice and hopefully it will work.

• 8:03Gary O'Reilly?

  Keep looking up. Neil would love it.

• 8:05Chuck Nice?

  I'll be over there. I'll be making sure you're all right. Okay, all right.

• 8:07Gary O'Reilly?

  Hey Drew, thank you.

• 8:08Chuck Nice?

  All right, well guys, it's been a pleasure, man. Yeah, without a doubt. Matt Akbar, it's a pleasure, man. Thank you.

• 8:15Gary O'Reilly?

  Well, you can actually watch Chuck attempting the wall at Chuck.

• 8:18Chuck Nice?

  Uh, playing with science on Facebook and Twitter, and attempting would be the right word. But up next, we sat down with the executive producer of the show, Anthony Storm, as well as real life ninjas, Joe Murawski and Najee Richardson. So enjoy.

• 8:34Gary O'Reilly?

  Today, we're gonna talk like a ninja.

• 8:36Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 8:36Gary O'Reilly?

  Walk like a ninja.

• 8:37Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 8:38Gary O'Reilly?

  And maybe even be ninjas, or maybe not.

• 8:41Chuck Nice?

  No, we're not gonna be ninjas.

• 8:42Gary O'Reilly?

  We're not.

• 8:42Chuck Nice?

  We're not even gonna walk and talk like ninjas, to be honest. Spoiler. Let's be honest here.

• 8:45Gary O'Reilly?

  But we are gonna get the man behind American Ninja Warrior.

• 8:50Chuck Nice?

  Yes!

• 8:51Gary O'Reilly?

  Executive producer Anthony Storm. Anthony, pleasure to have you on board.

• 8:54Speaker 04

  Thank you, happy to be here, guys.

• 8:55Chuck Nice?

  It's great to have you here.

• 8:56Gary O'Reilly?

  We are on set, chap.

• 8:57Chuck Nice?

  We are on set, we are here. Behind us, for those of you who are not StarTalk All-Access subscribers and you can't see the video, you should subscribe and see the video. We are on set and behind us is the American Ninja Warrior Obstacle Course. And it should be more, it should be named the Torture Course. This is not an obstacle course. This is a torture course.

• 9:20Gary O'Reilly?

  This is, this is a course that's been designed by a Bond villain with a white cat.

• 9:24Chuck Nice?

  Yes!

• 9:25Gary O'Reilly?

  This is pure evil.

• 9:27Chuck Nice?

  So Anthony.

• 9:28Gary O'Reilly?

  And you're very, yes, you've got it.

• 9:30Chuck Nice?

  Anthony is stroking his white cat right now. So tell us, man, seriously, first of all, you're the executive producer and the showrunner, and what, where did this come from? What are the origins of American Ninja Warrior? You're in your 10th season. How did this start and how did you come to it?

• 9:46Speaker 04

  The show started in Japan. The diehards of the show know that. It started as a show called Sasuke in Japan. It was essentially just an obstacle course competition show and it was very popular there and it's actually still running there. I think they're in their 34th season or something like that. It came over here, as you said, 10 years ago to the US. It started as a very small cable show.

• 10:04Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 10:04Speaker 04

  It was on G4, which was basically a teen boy channel. Around season 5, it migrated part-time onto NBC, which had the same parent company as G4. G4 ultimately became Esquire. There's a whole long history there that's not that interesting. But I joined in season 6.

• 10:22Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 10:22Speaker 04

  My background was in documentary and sports. I had worked at Olympics and Wimbledon's and Super Bowls and World Series and every major sporting event in every capacity of production. And then I spent a lot of years producing hour-long documentaries. I did a series called Beyond the Glory, which was a sports documentary series. I did a couple of seasons on sports science, which I'm sure you guys are familiar with. And so it what we did when I joined in season six, along with Brian Richardson, the other showrunner is we grew the storytelling aspect of this show. We felt like for a broad national primetime audience on NBC that we needed to make it more of a broader show that appealed to men and women and kids and make it a family viewing show.

• 11:05Speaker 04

  And just as a sports show, it was very compelling, but it was very masculine.

• 11:09Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, and I noticed that that point, and this must have been when you joined, you guys brought in kind of like narrative arcs for all of the people who were involved and gave them more of a background. You made them human is what you did.

• 11:20Gary O'Reilly?

  That's your documentary background coming forward.

• 11:22Speaker 04

  That is my storytelling background and that starts with casting and finding these people and then it's the way we tell the stories. And one of the big decisions we made in season six was to allow the athletes to tell their own stories. So instead of using voiceover to tell you about them, we put it in their own words. And then there's the, you know, there are of course editing styles and music choices and all that. But yeah, we made this very much about the competitors and their lifestyles and made them relatable and rootable. And so anybody watching at home is going to connect to somebody over the course of two hours.

• 11:50Chuck Nice?

  Absolutely. And I I never, because I've been in television for a long time, I always say I'm never falling for that. Remember the little tiny woman that you guys had? I forget her name.

• 12:04Speaker 04

  Casey Cotten.

• 12:05Chuck Nice?

  Casey, yes, totally fell totally fell for it.

• 12:07Speaker 04

  Yes, you're not alone.

• 12:09Chuck Nice?

  Totally sucked me in.

• 12:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, judging by the tens of millions of YouTube views, her run is got you're not alone.

• 12:14Gary O'Reilly?

  So apart from engagement with the audience, unless you put, and I will call them athletes because they are athletes.

• 12:22Chuck Nice?

  They are beyond athletes.

• 12:23Gary O'Reilly?

  Put them to a point where they are beyond their limits or the envelope of their limits. The show doesn't work. So how do you plot with pure evil to achieve this? Because I've looked along this course and every single thing is nuanced. The easiest thing I've looked at is the first stage. And I know if I do that, I'm in the water by halfway down. So how do you get to think about it and how do you engage with the science of it?

• 12:52Speaker 04

  Well, one of the challenges that people um uh, underrate on this show is the fact that these athletes are seeing the course for the first time when they step up there to compete. So, as you said, there's a lot of nuance, there's a lot of technique involved in achieving this. So, given multiple opportunities, we'd see a much higher success rate. A lot of this, of course, there's athleticism involved and skills, but there's also quite a bit of technique. And so, we really focus on creating obstacles that are challenging to you the first time you ever try it.

• 13:19Gary O'Reilly?

  Right, yeah.

• 13:20Speaker 04

  Um, we do quite a bit of research and development and quite a bit of testing at our shops back in Los Angeles, Southern California. Um, we also study the submission tapes of the athletes, so we have an idea of their skill sets and their strengths and weaknesses. And of course, we have a database of 10 years of competition to know what they're good at.

• 13:38Gary O'Reilly?

  Right.

• 13:39Speaker 04

  Uh, and what's going to trip them up. Um, and so, when we're building a course, we're building a course from, let's talk about a qualifying course, from obstacle one through six, which is going to um progressively challenge them as they go along. So, the first obstacle is usually the easiest and the last obstacle is usually the hardest. And so, we, uh, in the course of those six obstacles, we want to test every skill, imaginable skill. And as you said, that's going to test upper body and lower body and balance and agility and grip strength.

• 14:08Gary O'Reilly?

  Do you really stick the knife in and twist it when you hit the same muscle group, maybe two stages in a row?

• 14:14Speaker 04

  And we're usually trying not to do that.

• 14:17Chuck Nice?

  Right, because it'll fatigue the person and then you actually build in kind of failure.

• 14:21Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 14:21Chuck Nice?

  And that's not good for TV.

• 14:22Speaker 04

  No, we have, we have sort of a desired failure rate on every obstacle.

• 14:25Gary O'Reilly?

  Right.

• 14:26Speaker 04

  Um, and we test enough that we can usually get close. Sometimes, the night goes much differently than anticipated and then many more people fall at an obstacle than we would have expected. And that's the nature of true competition. Um, but we do try to test multiple body parts, fatigue them in different body parts throughout the course of the run.

• 14:43Gary O'Reilly?

  So, do you start with, this is what will make an athlete fail and work backwards, trying to, trying to not come too far away from 100%, or do you say to yourself, right, what can we do to stress athletes?

• 14:57Speaker 04

  Well, it depends on the obstacle. Normally, we prototype an obstacle. Um, we do a couple of tests on it and we notice right away whether it's too hard or too easy.

• 15:06Chuck Nice?

  Alright.

• 15:06Speaker 04

  And then that's where our adjustment begins. We kind of know, based on, as I said, our intel, what these athletes are capable of. Um, but the other thing we have to factor in is, are they capable of that if it's their first obstacle? Or if it's their fifth?

• 15:20Chuck Nice?

  Right, absolutely.

• 15:21Speaker 04

  And so, we have to factor in that they will have done multiple obstacles prior to that.

• 15:25Chuck Nice?

  So, now with that in mind, let's consider, do you consider, um, body type?

• 15:31Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 15:32Chuck Nice?

  And rate to strength ratio, because when I look at all of these, you know, I see, okay, somebody like myself, for instance. I have a very large wingspan for a guy my size.

• 15:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:43Chuck Nice?

  That means doing a pull-up is really much, much more difficult for me than it is for somebody with shorter arms.

• 15:49Gary O'Reilly?

  But then you have reach. Some of these obstacles are in reach.

• 15:52Chuck Nice?

  But reach will be an advantage. So now, are you taking that kind of weight to strength ratio in, uh, keeping that in mind when you're doing this?

• 15:59Speaker 04

  There's a lot of things like that we keep in mind. Um, number one is trying to build obstacles that don't favor taller athletes, or for that matter, shorter athletes. Trying to build obstacles that don't favor men versus women.

• 16:11Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 16:11Speaker 04

  Uh, trying to fit, to build obstacles that don't favor light people versus heavy.

• 16:16Chuck Nice?

  Gotcha.

• 16:17Speaker 04

  Um, there are some variables we can't account for. Generally, it's better to be lighter on this course.

• 16:21Chuck Nice?

  Absolutely.

• 16:22Speaker 04

  You're holding your body weight up for a lot of the time you're out there.

• 16:24Chuck Nice?

  For a long time, yeah, man.

• 16:24Speaker 04

  It's better not to be holding too much weight.

• 16:26Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 16:26Speaker 04

  Um, but using balance obstacles as, as an example, it's very difficult to build an out balance obstacle that doesn't favor people with long legs, because the less steps you have to take to get from one side of the pool to the other, the less times you have the opportunity to fall down.

• 16:39Chuck Nice?

  Absolutely.

• 16:40Gary O'Reilly?

  So the thing is there, you're looking at a guy that turns up, or a girl turns up and they're totally ripped.

• 16:45Speaker 04

  Right.

• 16:45Gary O'Reilly?

  Bulging with muscles.

• 16:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:47Gary O'Reilly?

  Isn't necessarily the advantage and the way to burn the course off.

• 16:51Speaker 04

  Now, we've seen, let's talk about CrossFitters.

• 16:54Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 16:54Speaker 04

  We've seen many CrossFit champions come on our course and flail terribly.

• 16:58Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 16:59Speaker 04

  Uh, it's just a different skill set.

• 17:00Chuck Nice?

  It is.

• 17:01Speaker 04

  Ninjas, ninjas and CrossFitters are different athletes.

• 17:04Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 17:04Speaker 04

  Uh, we've had prof, tons of professional athletes. We're gonna have Jason Avant, who played wide receiver for the Eagles for many years, is gonna come out here and compete tonight, and I'm curious to see how he does, because he is an elite professional athlete.

• 17:16Chuck Nice?

  Yes, he is.

• 17:17Speaker 04

  And he's been training Ninja, but not as long as our athletes.

• 17:19Chuck Nice?

  Now, will he have to catch footballs while he's doing the course? Because if he doesn't, I will be disappointed.

• 17:24Speaker 04

  That would be an advantage for him.

• 17:25Chuck Nice?

  Somebody should just be throwing footballs at him the entire time.

• 17:28Speaker 04

  That we know he can do.

• 17:29Gary O'Reilly?

  So why are you still a disgruntled Eagles fan?

• 17:31Chuck Nice?

  Oh, no. I can't be any happier.

• 17:33Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, I know.

• 17:34Chuck Nice?

  But listen, it's a new season. I'm already over last season. See, that's a true Eagles fan right there.

• 17:39Gary O'Reilly?

  Exactly, yeah.

• 17:40Chuck Nice?

  So, I'm looking at this. All of these things are never seen before, and therefore they have to be custom. Do you guys have engineers, and do you have course designers specifically?

• 17:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, we have engineers. We work with a company called ATS. They build and design our courses. The actual development of the obstacles comes from us, so the production team, along with ATS. And in the last two years, we've had suggestions sent in by the fans. We have an obstacle design challenge, and people can send in designs, and we've used, I'd say, probably 10 of those on a course, which is really exciting, because a lot of them are sent in by kids.

• 18:15Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 18:16Speaker 04

  So we've had obstacles that have played tremendously that were sent in by eight, nine, 10-year-olds.

• 18:19Gary O'Reilly?

  So another level of engagement with your audience.

• 18:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's great. And we get 10, hundreds of those submissions.

• 18:26Chuck Nice?

  Speaking of eight and 10-year-olds, and I know we gotta take a break, but very quickly, I have seen the influence of this show popping up in playgrounds around different communities.

• 18:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:39Chuck Nice?

  Do you guys have anything to do with that, or is it just the part that you've melted into the zeitgeist that much?

• 18:43Speaker 04

  It's just the influence of the show, and it's not just playgrounds, it's gyms. You know, they're popping up in every city in America, and more and more every day. And I think people have just found that this is a fun way to exercise. You know, it's not repetitive, it's not redundant, and you can achieve things. So at the end of a certain period of time, you can say, "I used to not be able to do this many, but now I can do that many." Or, "I couldn't get through the winglets, and now I can."

• 19:05Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 19:06Gary O'Reilly?

  If we take a step back from the physicality... Of the Warrior Challenge. If I don't have strategy, if I don't then engage my mind first,

• 19:17Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 19:17Gary O'Reilly?

  I will fail. And how do you build that mental obstacle course as much as you build the physical one?

• 19:24Chuck Nice?

  Well, I can tell you this much, when you look at the course, I have failed. That's okay. I don't care how good I am at anything. I would look at this course and say, I failed.

• 19:32Speaker 04

  Yeah. I mean, the only way we factor in the mental aspect is in if we expect a certain amount of people to succeed on an obstacle, we scale our expectation back by 20%, knowing that 20% of those people that should succeed will fail simply because they're under the lights, they've psyched themselves out, or they're gonna make a bad decision.

• 19:52Gary O'Reilly?

  Cool. Do you then have, when you design an obstacle, the ultimate strategy of how a ninja will solve the problem? And then are you surprised by the ninja that solves it in a totally different way?

• 20:06Speaker 04

  Oh, we love that. There's nothing better for us than seeing someone get through an obstacle a way that we had never expected or anticipated. And it's fascinating for a viewer, too.

• 20:13Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 20:14Speaker 04

  You know, we sort of safeguard against cheats because we really want the obstacles to be completed the way they were intended.

• 20:20Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 20:20Speaker 04

  But sometimes someone figures something out that's just mind blowing. And it's, or out of necessity, they're about to fail and they have nothing left in the tank. It's they figure out a way to get through in a way we never could have expected. And we love that.

• 20:31Chuck Nice?

  Fantastic. I know we gotta take a break.

• 20:33Gary O'Reilly?

  We are.

• 20:33Chuck Nice?

  But we're coming back with more. You're sticking around, right Anthony?

• 20:35Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 20:35Chuck Nice?

  All right.

• 20:36Gary O'Reilly?

  When we come back, not just more Anthony, but a ninja himself. Joe Moravsky.

• 20:42Chuck Nice?

  Joe Moravsky.

• 20:42Gary O'Reilly?

  One and only Joe Moravsky. Stick around, we'll be back shortly.

• 20:51Gary O'Reilly?

  Welcome back to Playing with Science. Gary O'Reilly, Chuck Nice. EP of American Ninja Warrior Anthony Storm and

• 20:59Gary O'Reilly?

  The last man standing.

• 21:01Chuck Nice?

  Joe Marowski.

• 21:02Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 21:02Chuck Nice?

  In the, I would say the building, but we're outside.

• 21:05Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 21:05Chuck Nice?

  On the set.

• 21:06Speaker 04

  We like to say last ninja standing because it's not always gonna be a man.

• 21:09Gary O'Reilly?

  That's right. Thank you for correcting me. Last ninja standing.

• 21:12Chuck Nice?

  Hashtag me too.

• 21:13Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes, thank you.

• 21:13Chuck Nice?

  Showing up right here.

• 21:14Gary O'Reilly?

  And rightly so.

• 21:17Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay, Joe.

• 21:18Chuck Nice?

  So how do you do this, man?

• 21:19Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 21:19Chuck Nice?

  How does this even come about? I mean, seriously. I mean, like, you're a ninja now, okay?

• 21:24Gary O'Reilly?

  Did you wake up one morning and go, "Yeah, ninja time"?

• 21:27Speaker 05

  You know what? Yeah, it had to be that right time in my life, of course, because, you know, I was going to school back in Connecticut for meteorology back in the day, of course. Can't believe it's many years ago now at this point, but, you know, I just had that moment in time where everything kind of came together. And I was sitting on the couch, like everyone does at home, watching this show, and I was like, "Mom, I really think I can do this." And she was, you know, a little sarcastic tone, but she was like, "Yeah, I'm sure you could, honey." Good for you, honey. What? Mom, you're supposed to support your son, you know what I mean?

• 21:54Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 21:55Speaker 05

  But the good news was, you know, everything fell together. You know, I had this nice weatherman background, was very unique. And I almost probably came off as a novelty act where people thought, "It'll be funny to see this guy run the course," but sure enough, I was a real athlete. People didn't take me seriously until they saw it.

• 22:10Gary O'Reilly?

  If you're involved as a meteorologist, you have very much a scientific background.

• 22:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 22:16Gary O'Reilly?

  Advantage or disadvantage when it comes to working this course?

• 22:19Chuck Nice?

  And do you ever bring science to what you're doing?

• 22:22Speaker 05

  Definitely. Definitely. Oh, there's so much that goes into this, science-related, you know? The first thing I think of immediately is I go live in front of, you know, who knows how many people on the given day, doing the weather, and that's sometimes more nerve-wracking than this. Because this is taped, you have a little opportunity, let's say if I trip and fall on my face, hopefully they'll edit something out like that.

• 22:42Speaker 04

  No.

• 22:42Speaker 05

  Probably not. Andy says no, so that's too...

• 22:45Chuck Nice?

  That's called television gold.

• 22:46Speaker 05

  That's too good.

• 22:46Chuck Nice?

  You need face planning? Are you kidding me? We need that.

• 22:49Speaker 05

  Right. Oh, my goodness. But, you know, when it comes to doing the weather, there's no second chances. It's right there. If you stumble or faint or something, yeah, that's it. So, and yeah, not to mention that, of course, of course. So, you know, with that all in mind, of course, I'm able to handle this a little better. But I was just, before coming on camera here, I was looking at the weather forecast for tonight. Because I know we have some showers, we have some showers around, it's gonna be, it's gonna be dicey, I think, a little later after midnight tonight, and then tomorrow especially if, you know, for the finalists that make it that far.

• 23:16Chuck Nice?

  Right. You've got thunderstorms all day tomorrow, right?

• 23:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, it'll be interesting, so.

• 23:20Gary O'Reilly?

  Anthony, how do you build a course to get the best out of this guy?

• 23:24Speaker 04

  It's funny, because our, our elite athletes are always at the forefront of our mind, you know, how are we gonna push these guys? There, there, there's such a spectrum of athletes that compete on this show, you know, everything from sixty-five-year-old grandfathers to this year nineteen-year-old superstar athletes, and, and, you know, and Joe is amongst the, the elite, of course, as, you know, his, his history proves it. So, we've gotta find a way to build courses that somehow challenge that, that really wide spectrum of athletes. But, you know, Joe pushes us. What Joe is able to do forces us to create more difficult obstacles. And Joe can talk about season six versus season ten, the obstacles get harder every single year because these guys get better.

• 24:02Chuck Nice?

  So, talk about the, um, how do you find these, these people? I mean, what, what, what's the process? Look at Joe, he's a good-looking guy, he's an athlete, you know, he's, I mean, he's great. We're, we're talking to him, he's great in an interview. Is any of this stuff a consideration? Or, yeah?

• 24:18Speaker 04

  Sure. I mean, it's a television show, um, and a sport, and so we've gotta find that balance of people that can, uh, speak eloquently and, and tell their story. Yeah, and so we're, we're casting to find people that, that hopefully have a story to tell, something that a viewer at home is gonna connect with, um, and can, you know, make their way through part of the course at least, and hopefully conquer it. Uh, you know, and then, we also wanna have these superstar athletes, you know, Joe, Joe has a very full life, he's got a family and a job and all these things to talk about, which is terrific. Some of our great athletes are pretty much just athletes, and that's okay, too. Um, because, you know, our audience wants to see everything. They wanna see superstar athletes at their best, and they wanna see people they connect with, and, you know, hopefully on a good night, we bring them all of that.

• 25:01Gary O'Reilly?

  What do you feel your audience connects with better? The already storied superstar athlete?

• 25:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 25:08Gary O'Reilly?

  Or, where did this guy come from? Wow.

• 25:11Speaker 04

  I mean, I think they connect to all of it. You know, we have such a diverse audience that I think there's something for everybody. There's a lot of kids watching our show. I think that they connect with the other kids. And so they see a father or a mother, and they see the kids on the sideline, and they say, I wish that were my parent up there doing that. And then, of course, the younger athletes connect with our athletes. And they say, I wish I could do that. Or I wish I had an opportunity to be on the show and do that. And I mean, I know I, as a viewer, connect to almost all of our athletes. You know, when I'm watching the show in the edit bay, I feel something for almost everybody we put on air.

• 25:42Gary O'Reilly?

  It's amazing, isn't it?

• 25:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 25:43Gary O'Reilly?

  So Joe, let's go back to you. Physically, yeah, I don't think we have a doubt about you being able to cope with most of it. But without your first approach mentally, how would you survive? I mean, and how do you build that in? Do you look at each obstacle and go, got it, I got my strategy, I need to know how to conquer this. And you know, through your own physical assets, that you can do that. Or if you can't quite, how do you work around it?

• 26:10Speaker 05

  Well, you know, it's interesting. I really, I like to talk about growing up. And I was, you know, I was just in Sherman, my hometown, Sherman, Connecticut, doing this exact thing I used to do as a child. I used to go down this little stream down by my house, and jump from rock to rock. Something so simple, yet so scary and so real.

• 26:27Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:27Speaker 05

  You know, and, and looking at this course, sometimes you have to think of it like that. You're just trying to stay out of the water. Don't overthink things. Sometimes it's as simple as that.

• 26:36Gary O'Reilly?

  That's pretty cool.

• 26:37Speaker 05

  And so, you know, when I, when I keep that in mind, and just, I just try to remind myself, it's, it should be instinct at this point for me. I've been doing it as a kid. To look at the course and come up with a plan, of course, that's what we want to do, and be able to have that opportunity to do. But sometimes, you know, you don't have a very long time to look at it and to game plan. So you just gotta keep it simple.

• 26:57Gary O'Reilly?

  Right. So let me ask you this. Have you ever had an obstacle? That kind of, um...

• 27:03Chuck Nice?

  I don't know, they kind of ate your lunch psychologically. It's just like, what is it about this thing? It should be the simplest thing for me. I'm a rock climber. Why can't I just hold on to that one little thing? I don't understand it. Anything like that ever happen?

• 27:15Speaker 05

  We have Anthony Storm here. I don't want to give him any insight.

• 27:17Speaker 04

  I have a tape. I've already seen the tapes.

• 27:19Chuck Nice?

  You're like, that's ammunition, right?

• 27:21Speaker 05

  I don't want him to know. No, you know what? Honestly, every individual obstacle for me is very doable. There are a few that we haven't seen yet that, you know, have been in Japan on their version of the show, Sasuke, that haven't aired or been on the course here yet. I know it's just a matter of time till we probably see something from their... Yeah, he knows exactly.

• 27:42Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, he's done it? He just doubled up Joe's kryptonite. That's what he did.

• 27:47Chuck Nice?

  Anthony just put both hands up as if he was gripping like a bar.

• 27:50Speaker 04

  It's a vertical grip like this.

• 27:53Speaker 05

  So he knows. This is not good that he knows that. It's really, it's the ninja's kryptonite. It's every single ninja kind of despises what we call the vertical limit. It's this ledge, and think of a two by four, but on the back of the two by four is a centimeter or so that you just get your fingertips over and you have to rely on this edge to traverse it.

• 28:12Speaker 04

  The Japanese athletes tend to be very light, and so the obstacle isn't as challenging for them. It's of course still challenging, but when the Americans go over and they have some muscle mass, it's a little more difficult for them to get through that.

• 28:23Gary O'Reilly?

  So this is almost replication of a rock climbing.

• 28:26Speaker 04

  A very challenging.

• 28:28Chuck Nice?

  Very strong fingertips, that's for sure.

• 28:30Speaker 05

  Make sure you warm up.

• 28:31Gary O'Reilly?

  It's every part of the body's up for grabs as far as you're concerned as a course designer.

• 28:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean fingertip strength is one of the keys to our course. And you know, I'm sure Joe could talk about some of the bizarre ways these guys train those muscles, but they're literally training the pads on the tips of their fingers to have that strength to get through the course.

• 28:46Chuck Nice?

  What is one of the things that you do, Joe?

• 28:48Speaker 05

  You know, obviously a lot of repetition of rock climbing, that's key. A lot of the best climbers, a lot of the best ninjas, rather, are climbers. You know, you look back at our USA versus the world competition, we go against Sean McCall every year, one of the world's best rock climbers, and he destroys the course for the most part every single time. Doesn't mean every rock climber is going to be that good, but you got to look back, season seven, our very first, you know, winner of the million dollar prize. Isaac Caliario, one of the world's best rock climbers.

• 29:16Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. So now, is that because rock climbing is not just strength, it's also agility, but it's also balance? Like, there's, like, the overall, people think of balance as something that stand, like, you're standing, but balance has to do with all different parts of your body and all different body stances in order for you to have correct balance. Is that part of it?

• 29:35Speaker 05

  Oh, footwork and body position, it means so much in the world of climbing and the world of Ninja Warrior.

• 29:41Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 29:41Speaker 05

  Um, certainly, there may be some harder things in the ninja world versus the rock climbing world and vice versa. Um, but, you know, when you're on a really hard climb inverted, and you have to do what's called a flag, or you dip your leg across your body, or you drop your knee into a knee bar, there's so many, or a drop knee, there are so many different techniques that can translate to something on this course that'll help you. Uh, so, you know, the, the joke is, I don't know if it would be considered a joke, but, you know, the rock climbers have the skill to get there and to win, but they never do because they can't get through some of the more parkour-based

• 30:14Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 30:14Speaker 05

  obstacles, like striding or lechang through the air. A lot of them don't prefer that type of motion.

• 30:20Chuck Nice?

  Lechang?

• 30:20Speaker 05

  Lechang.

• 30:21Chuck Nice?

  Lechang. That sounds, yeah. Sounds very much like sashaying. Hey!

• 30:26Speaker 05

  Not quite.

• 30:26Chuck Nice?

  Work it. It's what I'm saying. Chuck nice on the course, okay? Watch and learn. Bitches. Anyway.

• 30:36Gary O'Reilly?

  Somehow, just did not think you'd resist that.

• 30:39Chuck Nice?

  Of course I couldn't.

• 30:39Gary O'Reilly?

  So let's take you back to the first time you walk out on set here.

• 30:42Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 30:43Gary O'Reilly?

  Now, you know, from the physical aspect, whatever you dial up, I'll handle it. But there's TV cameras, and there's people who know you, and they're watching. How does that, that crowd, that most important space, the bit between your ears?

• 30:58Speaker 05

  You know, I think the most important time for me preparing-wise, and this probably goes for everybody, is the moments before. You know, before you run, even the hours before. Uh, you have to juggle those thoughts before you step up to that, that starting block. You have to. Because if you don't think about the pressure before, it's gonna hit you too hard there and you might make a mistake. I, I like to really think about everything. The fans, the cameras, the millions of people watching, the middle of the night that we're filming, you know, I think of everything. I get nervous, and then I let it go.

• 31:29Gary O'Reilly?

  So, okay, it's a night shoot? And it's not early in the evening, it's early in the morning. You're playing with biorhythms. You've now got a diff- you're evil. You're an evil person. I'm filming this at this time of the day.

• 31:43Chuck Nice?

  He's pointing at Anthony right now.

• 31:43Gary O'Reilly?

  Right, so because-

• 31:44Chuck Nice?

  Is there a reason for the early morning shoot?

• 31:47Speaker 04

  It's just we need to shoot all through the night in order to get all our runners through the course.

• 31:51Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 31:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:52Gary O'Reilly?

  And not because you just want to play with the guys' biorhythms as well? No.

• 31:55Speaker 04

  No, I mean, they've actually done a remarkable job over the years of shifting their sleep patterns, you know, in the week preceding competitions, so, and a joke can speak to it more, but most of the ninjas start staying up all night a few days or even longer before competition, they sleep during the day, so that by the time competition comes around, their biorhythm is correct for that.

• 32:13Gary O'Reilly?

  How amazing. See, there's no attention. It's an attention to detail. Nothing is left.

• 32:17Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 32:18Gary O'Reilly?

  You know, I'm strengthening my fingertips, I'm getting my sleep patterns right.

• 32:21Chuck Nice?

  Right. Yeah, two things I work on all the time. Strengthening my fingertips and getting my sleep patterns right. So let me tell you, uh, let me say, Anthony, uh, is there, where do you see this course, let's say, I mean, clearly you guys are gonna be on for another 10 seasons with no problem.

• 32:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:35Chuck Nice?

  Um, where do you see this going?

• 32:37Speaker 04

  It's already grown so much. I mean, I, I can't tell you how many countries we're in right now, but I could start naming them and it goes on forever. You know, Ninja Warrior is literally in nearly every country in the world right now. Uh, in Asia, Europe, uh, South America, every part of the world. Uh, Australia, it was a huge success in Australia. So it continues to grow worldwide. As we talked about, it's continuing to grow domestically in the gyms. There's gyms in every city now, multiple gyms, and there's, there are companies that are starting to spread like wildfire. Um, and we have a kid's show coming out.

• 33:10Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh!

• 33:10Speaker 04

  So you will see athletes ranging from nine to 14 years old taking on a little bit smaller versions of these courses.

• 33:17Gary O'Reilly?

  Cool.

• 33:17Speaker 04

  There's already a team version of this show, and so, you know, there's room for growth.

• 33:21Gary O'Reilly?

  Is that the legacy? Uh, a fitter, more-

• 33:25Speaker 04

  I hope so. Yeah.

• 33:27Gary O'Reilly?

  Athletically intelligent.

• 33:29Chuck Nice?

  Country?

• 33:30Gary O'Reilly?

  Youth.

• 33:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:31Gary O'Reilly?

  And therefore.

• 33:32Chuck Nice?

  You mean instead of the big nacho eating mess that we are now?

• 33:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, I hope so.

• 33:38Gary O'Reilly?

  You said that.

• 33:39Speaker 04

  If that's the legacy, you know, we'll be very proud to have had something to do with it. You know, if the fact that there are kids watching this show that are going into the gyms at ages earlier than they normally would have.

• 33:49Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 33:50Speaker 04

  And then bringing their parents with them.

• 33:51Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 33:52Speaker 04

  If someone's got to take them and pay the membership dues. That that is terrific for society. You know, the fact that anybody is watching our show and getting up off the couch to try to do what these athletes do.

• 34:00Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 34:01Speaker 04

  Is tremendous.

• 34:01Gary O'Reilly?

  I agree.

• 34:02Chuck Nice?

  That's cool. We've got to wrap this session up.

• 34:03Gary O'Reilly?

  We've got to take a break.

• 34:04Chuck Nice?

  But we're coming back, right?

• 34:05Gary O'Reilly?

  Uh, we are coming back, but thank you.

• 34:06Chuck Nice?

  We'll be saying goodbye to Anthony.

• 34:08Gary O'Reilly?

  Producer Anthony Storm. Joe is going to stay with us.

• 34:10Speaker 04

  I'll hang out.

• 34:11Gary O'Reilly?

  We are going to hang out, but we're going to be joined by another ninja. Najee Richardson will join us and yeah, stick around, we'll be back shortly.

• 34:25Gary O'Reilly?

  Welcome back, I'm Chuck Nice.

• 34:27Chuck Nice?

  And I'm Gary O'Reilly.

• 34:28Gary O'Reilly?

  And that's confused you, hasn't it?

• 34:30Chuck Nice?

  Oh, you're confused.

• 34:31Gary O'Reilly?

  Good it has, yes. And this is Playing with Science and we are down on the set of American Ninja Warrior in Philadelphia.

• 34:38Chuck Nice?

  And we have with us two ninjas.

• 34:41Gary O'Reilly?

  Not just any ninjas.

• 34:42Chuck Nice?

  Nah.

• 34:43Gary O'Reilly?

  Two of the best.

• 34:44Chuck Nice?

  One Philly's favorite, and that is Najee Richardson.

• 34:48Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 34:48Chuck Nice?

  And staying with us from a previous segment is Joe Murawski, who is from Connecticut.

• 34:53Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 34:53Chuck Nice?

  Uh, and down here.

• 34:54Gary O'Reilly?

  The last ninja standing.

• 34:56Chuck Nice?

  The last ninja standing.

• 34:58Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 34:58Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. So guys, um, look, so I think we asked Joe this, but Najee, how did you come? Like, did you just start jumping on your bed and then you started, went to parkour and now you're like, gotta be a ninja? How? How does it, how did it happen for you?

• 35:12Speaker 04

  It starts like that for everyone, I feel like, but I was a gymnast. I did gymnastics for over 11 years.

• 35:16Chuck Nice?

  Oh.

• 35:16Speaker 04

  And when my career ended from an injury, I saw one of my buddies pop up on TV. He was an old teammate. He was doing this, it was season six. So I gave him a call, reached out, and he was building a gym at the time called the Gravity Forge in Happy World, PA. Uh, he let me come and try some of the obstacles and I was hooked instantly.

• 35:32Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 35:32Speaker 05

  I didn't even know that story.

• 35:33Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 35:35Speaker 04

  Dan Galazki.

• 35:35Speaker 05

  Wow, that's really cool. I had no idea.

• 35:37Gary O'Reilly?

  So. The gymnastics element of it, you'd have felt comfortable with what you were asked to again perform.

• 35:45Speaker 06

  Right. Yeah. For me, it was a lot of muscle memory. Like, a lot of the flying obstacles where I'm throwing myself from one obstacle to the other, that was muscle memory.

• 35:54Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 35:55Speaker 06

  A lot of what you do in gymnastics is just flying through the air. I mean, that's my nickname. So, that part of it came very natural. The things that I had to work really hard for was grip strength. In gymnastics, we literally have grips on our hands so that it's easier for us to hold onto the bar.

• 36:08Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, a little rosin doesn't hurt either.

• 36:10Speaker 06

  Not at all. So, it was hard for me to build that grip strength initially, but after a few, you know, years in the sport, I've kind of got a good handle on it.

• 36:18Gary O'Reilly?

  Joe, what Najee is saying about muscle memory, a guy can have, or a female athlete, a ninja turns up, they'll be strong, they'll be weight strong, but is it so much about actual conditioning of the muscles themselves that is so vital here?

• 36:35Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. And you know, it's interesting for Najee and a lot of these, you know, Olympic gymnasts that come out from a sport, that they're an elite member of that particular sport, it's hard for them, I feel like, because they've trained their body to do things one way. For example, Lachey's, Najee won't say this because he's too modest, but he's one of the greatest guys when it comes to flying through the air, that's why he's the Flying Phoenix, you know, and he's so good at it. And I have to imagine it's because he's, you know, he's just this high-level gymnast, or used to be this high-level gymnast, you got some of it still left in you, I know you do.

• 37:06Speaker 06

  A little bit, a little bit.

• 37:07Speaker 05

  But, you know, he's able to translate his gymnastics background so well. And a lot of people have a lot of issues doing that, because they have trained so long for their body to do one thing, that it's hard to break those habits.

• 37:19Chuck Nice?

  Yes. So, let me ask you guys, when you look at this course, not this particular course, over the time that you've been a ninja warrior, what is the one obstacle that you overcame and you were like, "Yes, I did it. I did, suck it."

• 37:37Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, right.

• 37:37Gary O'Reilly?

  I did it.

• 37:39Speaker 06

  For me.

• 37:39Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, go, please.

• 37:40Speaker 06

  For me, it was the salmon ladder.

• 37:42Chuck Nice?

  The what now?

• 37:42Speaker 06

  The salmon ladder.

• 37:43Chuck Nice?

  Salmon ladder.

• 37:43Speaker 06

  Yeah, the salmon ladder, that took me out my second season.

• 37:46Chuck Nice?

  So now, just so that for the people at home who may not know.

• 37:49Speaker 06

  Right.

• 37:49Chuck Nice?

  So there's a bar, and then you have a ascending, um.

• 37:55Speaker 05

  Rungs.

• 37:55Chuck Nice?

  Level.

• 37:56Speaker 05

  Rungs.

• 37:56Chuck Nice?

  But they're notches, they're not really rungs.

• 37:59Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 37:59Chuck Nice?

  It's one bar that you have to actually.

• 38:00Gary O'Reilly?

  And you've got to raise the bar yourself.

• 38:02Chuck Nice?

  Unhinge the bar, raise it up, put it back in the next slot.

• 38:06Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 38:06Chuck Nice?

  And then engage it so that you can pull yourself up, right?

• 38:10Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 38:11Chuck Nice?

  Okay, so go ahead about that.

• 38:12Speaker 06

  Yeah, for me, I fell on that my second season, that took me out, and that was something I was very comfortable with, uh, doing in, in the gym, that was one of my favorite obstacles to train, so come showtime, I fell on it, it really, it, it bothered me, it bothered me for a good year, and when I got back to Vegas, that's all I thought about, I was just mentally disturbed at that point.

• 38:31Gary O'Reilly?

  So what do you think, I mean, because physically, you're capable, that's, that's not a doubt.

• 38:35Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 38:35Gary O'Reilly?

  So what, what was the change, what happened, was it cameras, lights?

• 38:38Speaker 06

  I think, I think when you get very comfortable in an obstacle, you have, you kind of just take it for granted a little bit, you don't really, uh, take in consideration the things that could go wrong, maybe getting one side up higher than the other, you're just kind of going off, again, muscle memory, and sometimes that can play a huge factor into the obstacles, because here, they're built differently than they are in the gyms.

• 38:59Chuck Nice?

  And that, you know, it's funny, you say that because many elite athletes, uh, make that, like, think of professional receivers, eh, on a football field, and you see them drop a ball, you're like, right, how did he drop that ball? And then the slow motion replay, you see the guy has actually turned and started looking upfield before he caught the ball, because in his mind, that catch was so easy, he already caught it.

• 39:24Speaker 06

  Exactly.

• 39:25Speaker 05

  Routine for these guys.

• 39:26Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, so that's kind of what happened to you.

• 39:28Speaker 06

  That's exactly what happened to me, took it for granted, I was like, I do this all the time, like, it should be easy, didn't think about it, and then it took me out, but it's a great life lesson, especially for this sport, not to take any one of these obstacles for granted, no matter how many times you've done them, because at any moment, it can take you out.

• 39:43Gary O'Reilly?

  And Joe, what was your obstacle that you were just like, I did it?

• 39:45Speaker 05

  Oh, the first year I was on the show, I fell on stage three in the Vegas finals, which, it was just an achievement to get that far, most athletes never even get stage three, I did it my first year.

• 39:54Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 39:55Speaker 05

  So that was a good start, it certainly helped me get to where I am today, it put a lot of confidence in my mind, which is very important, by the way, as we know, um, but, I fell on an obstacle called the floating doors. Floating boards, but floating doors. Imagine a door with no handle and you're not allowed to grab the top.

• 40:11Chuck Nice?

  I know, I saw Titanic.

• 40:12Speaker 05

  And they're hanging there, yeah, you gotta pinch, you gotta pinch. Imagine doing this at home, don't do it because it'll probably break the hinges off, but trust me, I've learned the hard way. Uh, you can get on the door just by pinching your hands and your feet. And that's it, you have to move to the next door, shift your body to the next and the next and the next. So I found the very last door and I'll tell you what, you want to talk about psyching yourself out, I trained that obstacle all year. And that was my first real moment because it was my second season then to come back and try to do it again. That was my first real opportunity at, at, you know, righting a wrong.

• 40:44Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 40:44Speaker 05

  And I did well and obviously, uh, the rest is history, so.

• 40:47Chuck Nice?

  And then I look at this course and there's, there's no doors on it.

• 40:50Speaker 05

  Thank God, thank goodness.

• 40:52Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay, we talked about Nadi and your gymnastics background. But Joe has that kind of, you've all got your secret ninja skills.

• 41:00Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 41:01Gary O'Reilly?

  The scientist, the weatherman, the guy that can tell you if it's gonna rain. And how do you look at it and think, is that an advantage to you? Is that something you think, yeah, really, could that be a skill that I could acquire? Is it something, how do you feel about that?

• 41:15Chuck Nice?

  Has he ever shared some weather secrets with you before a match?

• 41:17Speaker 06

  He doesn't share any weather secrets with us.

• 41:19Speaker 05

  Nobody asks, they don't care about the weather. They just care about when I get the weather wrong. That's really the only time they care.

• 41:24Speaker 06

  I'll psych us out and be like, guys, it's gonna rain today. And like, really, Joe, come on. And then we're psyching ourselves out and then it doesn't rain. I'm like, oh, you did that on purpose. You did that on purpose to take us out of the game.

• 41:35Chuck Nice?

  So how much further do you think this can go in terms of how they're pushing you mentally and physically with these particular tasks?

• 41:43Speaker 05

  Well, you know what? Looking at Sasuke, the Japanese version of the show, um, the original show, you know, they're kind of the, the leader in this sport because they've been doing this, I can't even, 20 years.

• 41:55Speaker 06

  It's a long time.

• 41:55Speaker 05

  Is it 30, 30 seasons maybe, but 20 years. Uh, cause I do a few seasons per year sometimes. And, uh, you know, they are ahead. We've seen, we talked with Anthony earlier, you know, the, the vertical limit, that obstacle, we don't, we haven't seen it yet.

• 42:08Chuck Nice?

  Right. Nadi's shaking his head already. He's only gonna mention it.

• 42:12Speaker 06

  Yeah, no thanks.

• 42:13Speaker 05

  Unfortunately, but he knows.

• 42:14Speaker 06

  They can have that one. They can keep that over there.

• 42:16Speaker 05

  So there are a lot of things that can change over time. Fortunately for us, we can see that and prepare for that, and we are preparing. We've done vertical limits, we've done things like that before. But, uh, I mean, you gotta be ready. You gotta be physically and mentally ready.

• 42:28Chuck Nice?

  You guys do not get to practice on the course, right?

• 42:31Speaker 05

  I wish.

• 42:32Speaker 06

  That would be great. That's a hard thing about being a ninja versus gymnastics, too, is during gymnastics, we literally get to practice our routine before the competition.

• 42:39Gary O'Reilly?

  And you know exactly what the apparatus is.

• 42:42Speaker 06

  Exactly. We know how the high bar feels, how tight it might be. You know, we get to practice with the pommel horse, things like that. We literally get to feel the obstacle or the event first before we actually compete. And here, you just, you gotta go. You know, you have no time to prepare.

• 42:56Speaker 05

  Oh, I just got butterflies. You said, "Gotta go," and my heart sank. The rules guy on the course, he's always telling us, he gives us a countdown, and after a certain amount of time, they're like, "Gotta go, Joe, gotta go." And you're like, "Oh, your heart just dropped." So when you hear him say that, it's sick already. I don't want to do this.

• 43:11Gary O'Reilly?

  I, I just look at this and think, right, there is a physical limit, but you don't quite know what it is yet.

• 43:19Speaker 06

  Right.

• 43:20Gary O'Reilly?

  Because every time they invent a new obstacle, you guys find the solution. So they're always, you, you kind of got this synergy where you push each other to find a new way to elevate the thing. So Chuck, should we reinvent?

• 43:36Chuck Nice?

  Absolutely.

• 43:36Gary O'Reilly?

  The course. What could we do?

• 43:37Chuck Nice?

  What we like to do here is make sports better by giving our own little caveats and twists.

• 43:42Gary O'Reilly?

  Maybe not better.

• 43:43Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. Well, it's better for me because there are, it ends up in more injuries. Sorry. But that's how, see, I'm a spectator. I'm a spectator, so I have no interest vested in safety, okay?

• 43:56Speaker 05

  You want some entertainment value, something that's got to be on.

• 43:58Chuck Nice?

  Just think of me as an ancient Roman. You know, I'm like, "When are the lions coming?" Okay.

• 44:05Speaker 05

  That could make it a little more interesting, throw a lion behind you.

• 44:07Chuck Nice?

  Well, my point is this, like, so first of all, you guys have water hazards.

• 44:11Speaker 06

  Right.

• 44:11Chuck Nice?

  Let's make it interesting, talking about piranhas and sharks, all right?

• 44:15Speaker 06

  Sharks with lasers.

• 44:16Chuck Nice?

  Boom.

• 44:17Speaker 06

  Sharks with lasers.

• 44:18Gary O'Reilly?

  You've got to have sharks with lasers.

• 44:19Chuck Nice?

  Let me ask you this. Are you confident on anything on this course that's a water hazard?

• 44:24Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 44:24Chuck Nice?

  That you would do? With an unfed shark swimming in a pool beneath you.

• 44:30Speaker 06

  Wingnuts.

• 44:31Chuck Nice?

  What's wingnuts?

• 44:31Speaker 06

  The wingnuts are over there. It's right after this balance obstacle. I would do that.

• 44:36Chuck Nice?

  Okay, that's like the little bicycle thing that you hang on as you go from and you go from one to another.

• 44:41Speaker 06

  From one, yup, you got three of them.

• 44:43Chuck Nice?

  You got three of them that you go to, and there seems to be like a drop there so that you're having a big jolt from one stage to the next in there.

• 44:49Speaker 05

  It almost looks like that. I think it might be an illusion from where we're sitting. They're pretty straight across.

• 44:53Chuck Nice?

  They are pretty straight across.

• 44:54Speaker 05

  They're, you know, I don't know how many feet. They don't tell us that.

• 44:56Speaker 06

  They don't tell us.

• 44:57Chuck Nice?

  Alright, so now here's.

• 44:58Speaker 05

  It's far. I'm surprised he said that.

• 44:59Chuck Nice?

  You're actually confident enough that you would do that with a shark underneath you?

• 45:02Speaker 06

  I would do it with the wingnuts.

• 45:03Chuck Nice?

  Good for you, man.

• 45:04Speaker 06

  I would do it with the wingnuts.

• 45:05Speaker 05

  Listen, I'm confident. No way.

• 45:07Speaker 06

  I would do it.

• 45:08Speaker 05

  I would do obstacle number one.

• 45:09Chuck Nice?

  Now, now, now.

• 45:10Speaker 05

  Hands and feet.

• 45:11Chuck Nice?

  Hands and feet, obstacle number one. That's where you would do it.

• 45:13Speaker 05

  All four limbs, stay on.

• 45:14Gary O'Reilly?

  What we do now is we test this young gentleman's confidence and drop some blood.

• 45:18Speaker 06

  Let's do it. I'm down. Let's go.

• 45:21Chuck Nice?

  In the water. Yeah. See, Najee must know that he's not delicious. See, I would never do that.

• 45:27Chuck Nice?

  Shark's trying to get out of the water to eat me. Are you kidding me? This is, is that talking? I am so hungry.

• 45:37Chuck Nice?

  Oh, man, we gotta wrap it up?

• 45:38Gary O'Reilly?

  We have.

• 45:39Chuck Nice?

  You guys are really good.

• 45:40Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks for your time, man.

• 45:42Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 45:43Chuck Nice?

  It's such a pleasure to have you. And listen, good luck to both of you tonight. The way this works is if you finish and you are in a certain time, you just move on, right? Is that it?

• 45:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, top thirty. Top thirty move on unless we have more than thirty finishers, which rarely happens.

• 45:59Chuck Nice?

  And then it goes by time, right?

• 46:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, so they'll have to furthest the fastest.

• 46:02Chuck Nice?

  Hoping that both of you guys advance and definitely kill the course tonight, man. Kill the course.

• 46:07Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, yeah. There's good camaraderie between everybody. We've had all the ninjas, so yeah.

• 46:11Chuck Nice?

  Just so that you guys at home though, so who are all the guys coming through? There was a huge contingent of guys coming through all shaking your hands and saying what's up. And those are testers?

• 46:21Speaker 06

  Those are testers, right.

• 46:22Chuck Nice?

  And what are they gonna do? They're gonna actually try and run the course just to see what? Just to warm it up?

• 46:27Speaker 05

  Well, I mean, they prepare production with maybe different camera angles or make sure the obstacles work, although they've done that already in the past few days.

• 46:37Chuck Nice?

  Television that I do where you just sit down, they call those stand-ins.

• 46:44Speaker 05

  No, well, you can call them our stand-ins. Yeah, alright, cool. Maybe they're run-ins. The run-ins, there you go.

• 46:49Gary O'Reilly?

  Testers, that's cool.

• 46:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:51Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah. Joe, Naji, thank you. Been an absolute pleasure.

• 46:55Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 46:55Gary O'Reilly?

  I mean, I sat and watched it at home, right?

• 46:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:57Gary O'Reilly?

  And I'm thinking, respect to the athletes, because they're athletes. I can't look at you and not think of you as athletes, whether they're girls, boys, teams, or whatever it is. But now, on set, I'm looking at these obstacle courses.

• 47:10Chuck Nice?

  It's a whole nother game.

• 47:11Gary O'Reilly?

  And what looks like it could be doable at home.

• 47:16Chuck Nice?

  It looks like impossible in person. And let me just tell you, I'll echo what he said, but, you know, I'll be a little less polite. I'm sitting at home like, what's the big damn deal? Okay? Anybody can do that.

• 47:26Speaker 05

  That's how I was.

• 47:27Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, pad to pad to pad. Now, jumping and catching a rope, that might be a little tough, but I could do that.

• 47:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:33Chuck Nice?

  And now I'm here, and the easiest thing on this course is terrifying. I mean, it is literally terrifying to go up there and look at that. It's insane.

• 47:42Gary O'Reilly?

  What I get the feeling of having, I've walked the course, and that's as close as I'll get to being a ninja. This isn't challenging me just physically. If I were physically capable to complete this, the psychological.

• 47:56Chuck Nice?

  Oh, yeah.

• 47:57Gary O'Reilly?

  The mental, the strategizing, the fact that the guys that have developed and designed this course have designed it in a way to test muscle groups at certain stages of the course.

• 48:07Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 48:08Gary O'Reilly?

  And if I am lucky enough to get to the very end, there's that wall of death thing. There's that big surprise. They are just, they must just sit back laughing and giggling. It really is supreme athletic, physical, and mental challenge.

• 48:24Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, you guys should be proud of yourselves.

• 48:25Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 48:26Chuck Nice?

  You have to be in peak condition to do this and, you know, and, and I would say young, but then there was a 60-year-old guy that did it, and I was just like, F that dude.

• 48:36Speaker 05

  He's making it look bad, come on.

• 48:37Chuck Nice?

  He's making everybody look bad. Somebody needs to get rid of him. I want to be like him when I grow up.

• 48:42Gary O'Reilly?

  Well, that's our show, Chuck. And it was a good one, I gotta tell you. Yeah, great fun being on set here at American Ninja Warrior. All the noise, all the buzz, all the hubbub. And thank you to, obviously, Najee, Joe, the two ninjas, Anthony, the executive producer, Anthony Storm, and of course, the two hosts. And if you want to tune in, find out and see for yourself, Chuck, when is it on and where is it? Mondays at 8 on NBC, that's where the action happens. If you have never, ever thought about watching American Ninja Warriors in the past, give it a go. There's a lot more science in it. There's a lot more going on than you would ever, ever think.