Geeking Out with Whoopi Goldberg

Neil Tyson and Whoopi Goldberg geek out about Star Trek, superheroes, space, and medical marijuana. Chuck Nice and Charles Liu join Neil in studio, with data journalist Mona Chalabi and “Pot Doc” Dr. Staci Gruber. Plus, Bill Nye gets high on life.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome to StarTalk. Your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now.

• 0:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome to the hall of the universe. I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist. And tonight, we're featuring my interview with Oscar-winning actress, comedian extraordinaire, Whoopi Goldberg.

• 0:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And she came by my office and we talked about everything in the universe. From our mutual interest in Star Trek and superheroes, to her interest in medical marijuana. Yeah. Whoa. So, let's do this.

• 1:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Tonight, I've got my co-host Chuck Nice. Hey. Chuck, always good to have you. Always a pleasure, my friend. Give it up for Chuck Nice. And also this evening, I've got a fellow, a friend, a fellow astrophysicist, Charles Liu. Charles.

• 1:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You are the patron saint of all things geeky. And so, so... And that's a compliment.

• 1:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He meant that in a good way.

• 1:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, if Charles is patron saint of geeks of the world, I can tell you that Whoopi Goldberg is a card-carrying member of that community. Absolutely. We've known each other for a while, and so, anytime we chat, we rediscover our mutual interest in space. And so, I love that about our conversations, and let's check it out, see where that took us.

• 2:00Speaker 01

  You and I attended a party at my house and kids, like some, they wanna talk to you. They know who you are and they have questions.

• 2:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  It's like, 'cause my teacher can't understand what I'm asking.

• 2:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I think adults also have questions, but they forgot how to ask them.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  Well, because you never wanna look like you don't know.

• 2:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, see.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  See, I don't mind being dumb as hell. I don't mind people knowing I'm dumb as hell. I would tell you, I'm dumb as hell. But I try to meet as many people who can just drop little droplets in my head. Just let me know what's happening. I mean, there are questions that everyone has. And that's how I feel about our place in the universe. You know, the idea that we are the only things out here doesn't make any sense to me.

• 2:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, that would be, it's inexcusably egocentric to even suggest it.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  And is it a human, is it a human thing or is it an American thing? I don't know.

• 2:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, it's human. The history of our species is one where we are certain we are in the middle of... You know, what does Mediterranean mean? It means Middle Earth. Mediterranean.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, back then, they named the region because they believed they're in the middle of the Flat Earth at the time.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  You know, with the announcement recently of finding, where they say 120 other...

• 3:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, no, so 1,200.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  1,200.

• 3:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Exoplanets out there.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Okay. So, that didn't make me feel better, I will tell you. Because I don't know where those planets, where they are, what are they doing?

• 3:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Or where they been.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Who's on it?

• 3:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They could have a press release on their own planet today saying, "We've just discovered planets on a thousand systems, including this one over here where they call themselves Earth." We could be in their sky.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  With them thinking about it the way we're thinking about them.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  Now, we're not looking to hurt those planets.

• 3:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Not initially.

• 3:56Charles Liu?

  What?

• 3:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What?

• 3:57Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 3:59Charles Liu?

  Excuse me?

• 4:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What do you mean, what do you mean excuse me?

• 4:01Charles Liu?

  We'll exploit them later, is that what you're saying?

• 4:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This is, this is what, that's how we roll as a, as a human species.

• 4:07Chuck Nice?

  That is who we-

• 4:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Chuck, you know it.

• 4:09Chuck Nice?

  That is who we are. That is who we are.

• 4:11Charles Liu?

  At the same time-

• 4:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I can't call you Chuck, because that's Chuck. I gotta call you Charles for this episode.

• 4:15Charles Liu?

  You can call me whatever you want.

• 4:18Chuck Nice?

  Okay Barbara. No, no.

• 4:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, no, so Stephen Hawking came out famously saying that aliens would, uh, it would not be a good thing for us to encounter aliens.

• 4:27Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 4:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And because they might treat us the way we know we've treated one another.

• 4:31Charles Liu?

  But in the Star Trek universe, the way we got around that was something called the Prime Directive.

• 4:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Which was?

• 4:37Charles Liu?

  Where benevolent, more advanced civilizations agreed not to interfere in less advanced civilizations because that was the right thing to do.

• 4:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, so you, so you think these aliens out there, that they've watched Star Trek? And that so they would have, they would have this rule and regulation in their book?

• 4:54Charles Liu?

  If they're that advanced, maybe. And they saw Whoopi on some of those episodes.

• 4:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's right!

• 5:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I mean, she, she, she was on Star Trek: Next Generation as an alien.

• 5:04Charles Liu?

  That's right.

• 5:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And which alien was she?

• 5:05Charles Liu?

  In season two, she was debuted as the bartender named Guinan.

• 5:10Chuck Nice?

  Guinan.

• 5:10Charles Liu?

  In the bar called Ten Forward.

• 5:13Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 5:13Charles Liu?

  Which was on the Enterprise D. Guinan as a character is at least 700 years old, as far as we know. So, in an episode called Time's Arrow, which was a two-parter, going through two separate seasons, she-

• 5:25Chuck Nice?

  I can't believe that the audience is actually nodding in agreement. I'm looking around, people are like, "Yes, yes, that's exactly right!" Go ahead.

• 5:37Charles Liu?

  In Time's Arrow, she was actually portrayed as having been in the United States-

• 5:42Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 5:42Charles Liu?

  During Mark Twain's lifetime.

• 5:44Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 5:45Charles Liu?

  And so it was then that actually she first met Captain Picard-

• 5:48Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 5:49Charles Liu?

  And then later on developed a relationship that went on.

• 5:52Chuck Nice?

  Because he had gone through a temporal rift that put him back in time, but she met him and-

• 5:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I am not worthy. I am not worthy.

• 6:05Charles Liu?

  Chuck, I think, right now, everybody listening is amazed that either one of us has a woman.

• 6:12Chuck Nice?

  This is true.

• 6:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They're both married with children, yeah. So, so I asked her about, about the story and the significance of her taking on that role in Star Trek. There's a backstory there. Let's check it out.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Not until Lieutenant Uhura.

• 6:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  Do we even appear in the future.

• 6:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, right.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  You know.

• 6:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Did that sensitize you to taking this gig for the next generation of Star Trek?

• 6:41Speaker 01

  Well, what it-

• 6:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because that you were a recurring character.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Yes, what it did was, I thought, wow, not only is she gorgeous, but everybody wants her.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  And she knows her stuff. She's the communications officer.

• 6:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're talking about Uhura?

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I thought, wow.

• 6:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And she's wearing that hot pants from the 19-

• 7:01Speaker 01

  Looking, looking fly, looking fly, I'm telling you.

• 7:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Not hot pants, but you know what I'm talking about.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  With a little skirt and everything, and you know, she had a, she had a thing, you know.

• 7:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  She could do the thing, right, right.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  She had the legs.

• 7:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because her title is lieutenant, she's in direct ascendancy to captain of the ship.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so the first time ever, someone of color would actually-

• 7:20Speaker 01

  Yes. Now, Gene Roddenberry didn't realize how big a deal this was, because he didn't, he didn't realize that we didn't appear anywhere else.

• 7:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The social impact of it. Again, he's just doing it because it seems like the right thing to do.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  Because it's the right thing to do. So, when, uh, LeVar comes to my house, I say, what are you doing?

• 7:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  LeVar Burton, yeah.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm getting ready to do Star Trek. I was like, dude, I want in. I want to do Star Trek. He was like, I'll tell them. I said, okay. I said, set up a lunch for me and Rick Berman and, and, uh-

• 7:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Gene.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  Gene. So, they do. And Gene says, so-

• 7:57Speaker 01

  You want to do Star Trek? I said, "Yeah, you don't understand." This was a huge part of my life. This was a huge part of my life because as a kid who loved science fiction, it wasn't until Lieutenant Uhura did I realize that I was in the future.

• 8:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That you were allowed in the future.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  He said, "What do you mean?" I said, "Gene, if you look at science fiction movies that predate Star Trek, there are no people of color anywhere." He was like, "I don't think I knew that." I said, "Well, you know now." So I would like to uphold that tradition because we know that we're in the future.

• 8:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The tradition set up by Lieutenant Uhura.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  By Lieutenant Uhura. That there is someone else of color. Now, you got LeVar. So my God, you might put two of us on a ship, and I know that's probably unusual, but I'd love to do it. He said, "All right." So he created Guinan. I may be the last creature he created.

• 9:01Charles Liu?

  Wow.

• 9:02Chuck Nice?

  Great story.

• 9:04Charles Liu?

  That is awesome.

• 9:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Star Trek, one of its greatest accomplishments is not just storytelling of future scenarios, but it also, I think, hope was a big part of the messaging.

• 9:17Charles Liu?

  Yeah.

• 9:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There are elements of the future that we can ascend to obtain.

• 9:25Charles Liu?

  That's right.

• 9:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes.

• 9:26Charles Liu?

  Star Trek showed humans living in peace and harmony, regardless of what race or nationality or language or anything.

• 9:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Or species.

• 9:34Chuck Nice?

  Oh, he's great.

• 9:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So I wonder if science fiction is a unique tablet for shifting the stereotypes that are within our culture. Because it's not showing a scene you're familiar with. You'd say, "No, I won't allow that because I know that, and that wouldn't happen that way," but it's the future.

• 9:55Charles Liu?

  Right.

• 9:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you can't prejudge it. It just happens to you. And then you can actually affect social change just by displaying what's going on.

• 10:05Charles Liu?

  And then sometimes you even do things by accident. Uh, you may have noticed that costume that Guinan was wearing.

• 10:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes.

• 10:13Charles Liu?

  She is completely covered head to toe with cloth except for her face.

• 10:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right.

• 10:17Charles Liu?

  These days, we have a lot of that in New York City and in parts, and sometimes these folks are, uh, say in traditional Muslim garb.

• 10:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:27Charles Liu?

  When Gene Roddenberry created that costume, I'm sure he wasn't thinking of that, but today, he's projecting forward to what we see today, the common view of differing, uh, people with religions and cultures from all around the world, that when those episodes first aired, weren't even on the consciousness of the American public.

• 10:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So I got a list here. So we've, we, we look at what, uh, well-known science fiction storytelling has brought to us. So in the original Star Trek, we had Sulu, and it was uncommon to have had an Asian anything.

• 10:59Chuck Nice?

  Now, uh, no.

• 11:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Anywhere. It wasn't your servant.

• 11:02Charles Liu?

  Or a cook.

• 11:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Or, oh yeah, yeah. So some, a cook, your cleaner.

• 11:05Chuck Nice?

  Or an awesome kick-ass sidekick named Kato.

• 11:09Charles Liu?

  The Green Hornet, played by Bruce Lee.

• 11:13Chuck Nice?

  Thank you, uh, cause they looked at me like I had two heads.

• 11:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah. But he was also, by the way, the chauffeur, if I remember correctly.

• 11:19Chuck Nice?

  Oh yeah, I didn't like that part.

• 11:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.

• 11:22Charles Liu?

  But his wheels were pretty awesome, the black beauty, this rolling arsenal.

• 11:27Chuck Nice?

  I gotta tell you something, man. You the biggest geek I've ever.

• 11:31Charles Liu?

  Thank you. Thank you, sir. You have just made my day.

• 11:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So wait, I got more here. So in Battlestar Galactica, I'd forgotten about this. Um, Admiral William Adama.

• 11:41Chuck Nice?

  Adama.

• 11:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 11:42Chuck Nice?

  Uh, James Alm.

• 11:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, Edward James.

• 11:44Chuck Nice?

  Edward, uh, James, uh, Edward.

• 11:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So we have a Hispanic, we have Latino in that.

• 11:48Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 11:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh, what else do we have here? Uh, I guess we had Billy Dee Williams and as Lando.

• 11:53Charles Liu?

  Lando Calrissian.

• 11:57Chuck Nice?

  Hey there Darth Vader, you better watch yourself, cause I'm about to crack open a Colt 45.

• 12:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Don't you stop.

• 12:05Chuck Nice?

  Sorry.

• 12:07Chuck Nice?

  The old TV show.

• 12:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And the most recent Star Wars.

• 12:11Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 12:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, the lead two characters, one is a woman.

• 12:14Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 12:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  One is black.

• 12:15Chuck Nice?

  Finn. Finn, the black.

• 12:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Finn.

• 12:18Chuck Nice?

  Stormtrooper.

• 12:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But he was a stormtrooper clone, right?

• 12:21Chuck Nice?

  Well, a lot of people lost their mind.

• 12:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, why didn't they lose their mind? I didn't follow this.

• 12:25Chuck Nice?

  Well, I didn't know if they lost.

• 12:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  People lost their mind for all kinds of reasons.

• 12:27Chuck Nice?

  I know, some people lost their mind because they were just like, "Oh my god, he's black." And I'm like, "Oh my god, he doesn't exist, so why can't he be black?"

• 12:42Chuck Nice?

  I mean, seriously, right?

• 12:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Why can't he exist?

• 12:45Chuck Nice?

  Uh, no, the deal is, like, it's, it's, the whole thing was made up, so why couldn't he be? But the other part is.

• 12:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That doesn't answer my question.

• 12:53Chuck Nice?

  No, the clones are cloned from Boba Fett, right?

• 12:56Charles Liu?

  Right.

• 12:57Chuck Nice?

  And so, we know that.

• 12:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I've never seen Boba Fett's face.

• 13:00Charles Liu?

  Boba Fett is actually South Asian.

• 13:02Chuck Nice?

  He's like a South, he's Pacific Rim.

• 13:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Why are you...

• 13:06Chuck Nice?

  He's a Pacific Rim Asian, and so, yeah, Django Fett, we also know. And so, the idea, the reason.

• 13:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  South Asian, not just Asian, South Asian.

• 13:16Chuck Nice?

  Pacific Rim. So, some people thought that, some people thought maybe, maybe, uh, they're mad because it's not true to the actual story.

• 13:25Charles Liu?

  Right.

• 13:26Chuck Nice?

  Of the Clone Wars, uh, but.

• 13:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The whole thing's made up anyway.

• 13:29Chuck Nice?

  Well, but my point is, what difference does it make? It's all fantasy.

• 13:36Charles Liu?

  And as it turned out, the stress was completely unfounded because Finn is not a clone.

• 13:42Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 13:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What is he?

• 13:44Chuck Nice?

  He's black.

• 13:50Chuck Nice?

  And that's the answer for everything when things don't work out.

• 13:54Chuck Nice?

  Why did this happen? He's black.

• 13:56Charles Liu?

  Turns out Finn wasn't a clone. Finn was an army that had been created from young people that had been brainwashed from an early age to become soldiers for the First Order. So, it wasn't even a stormtrooper to begin with, so all the controversy evaporated when people actually saw the movie.

• 14:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, I got you, okay.

• 14:14Chuck Nice?

  So, basically, he was black Hitler Youth. And ain't nothing wrong with that. Apparently.

• 14:22Charles Liu?

  He got better.

• 14:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, is there any science fiction today that you think is shifting stereotypes?

• 14:28Charles Liu?

  Well, you know what?

• 14:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  By the way, do you shift, are stereotypes shifted and people don't even know it when it's beginning shifted? So, that, does that question even make sense? Are we being influenced without even knowing it by some force of science fiction that's out there now?

• 14:44Charles Liu?

  I think so. It depends. Let me tell you what I think might be some of the most interesting and original science fictions going on today. If we take the assumption that the best science fiction at any given time describes the anxieties of the time and the society there, and that right now, the greatest anxiety we might have has to do with disease and environmental degradation and plagues that might affect all of humanity, I think some of the most interesting and relevant science fiction going on now is with zombies.

• 15:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Really?

• 15:17Charles Liu?

  Yes. Think about The Walking Dead, think about World War Z.

• 15:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But how does that advance a social cause?

• 15:24Chuck Nice?

  Well, it makes viruses a lot more scary, and you know, I think we should start discriminating against them.

• 15:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's advanced...

• 15:33Charles Liu?

  What I think, what it's doing is it's uniting all of humanity as we know it against a common enemy.

• 15:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh.

• 15:39Charles Liu?

  Which means that it doesn't matter what you look like or where you're from, as long as you're still breathing and not eating human flesh.

• 15:46Chuck Nice?

  Alright, that's cool. I mean, I'm all down with the not eating human flesh thing.

• 15:51Charles Liu?

  Excuse me, Chuck.

• 15:55Chuck Nice?

  No, but I do think that science fiction does have the ability to shift our perspectives, and that's a good thing.

• 16:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's a good thing. Well, coming up next, Whoopi, Whoopi Goldberg, gives her idea of what a perfect superhero should be. Let me tussle over that when StarTalk returns.

• 16:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome back to StarTalk. This evening, we're featuring my interview with Academy Award-winning actor Whoopi Goldberg. And, did you know she was a card-carrying geek? Well, let's check some of that out. Here it goes.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  I'm a woman of a certain age who's always grown up with Superman and Batman and Supergirl and all of the DC and Marvel universes. And there's nothing out there for us, for women of a certain age. I want to see, you know, somebody who saves the Earth, who looks a little bit like me, whose behind is a little bit bigger, whose chest is on the floor. But when that, these superpowers kick in, ooh! She could slap a whole nation of people on the way to taking care of business. That's what I want. And you don't find a lot of humor. It's just like...

• 17:26Speaker 01

  You know, and I feel the same way about science fiction movies, you know. I'd like it to be men and women in black.

• 17:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, okay. But men in black included women. I mean, it's like, like X-men that includes women. It's men like the old-fashioned man.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  You know, X-broads. It should be X-broads, you know.

• 17:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm still trying to think of a superhero with a big ass. I can't, I'm trying to...

• 17:49Speaker 01

  No, there isn't one. There's not, there are not, everyone is built. I'm talking about natural ass.

• 17:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Natural 50-year-old ass.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  Natural 50-year-old ass. Now, my ass is older than that.

• 18:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  On the body of a superhero.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, because superheroes, nothing says superheroes have to be fit.

• 18:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, of course. I tweeted this once, and I thought, "How come no one's talking about this?" Superman does not need muscles.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  No.

• 18:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If he's Superman...

• 18:16Speaker 01

  He's Superman, he does, hello?

• 18:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He's like any damn guy.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  He has ED, okay?

• 18:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He has ED.

• 18:27Charles Liu?

  There is one thing I can say.

• 18:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What?

• 18:30Charles Liu?

  Whoopi should be happy because in 2013, there was a series of X-Men put out by Marvel Comics which only contained women.

• 18:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Really?

• 18:40Charles Liu?

  Storm, Shadow Cat, Psylocke, Jubilee, the list goes on. And then in 2015, Marvel has put out something called A-Force, which are Avengers-only women.

• 18:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes.

• 18:54Charles Liu?

  She-Hulk, Spider-Woman.

• 18:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But do they have big behinds?

• 18:58Charles Liu?

  Well, there's Big Barta.

• 18:59Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 19:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay. And what's interesting is that the geek culture has been associated with superheroes and other sort of comic book adventures.

• 19:08Charles Liu?

  Absolutely.

• 19:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Historically, that wasn't always the case. But geeks have kind of taken ownership of it. Now, we all know that Whoopi has serious geek credentials. Just to be having that conversation with her, okay? We got that. But I don't know that everyone knows the full depths of her nerditude.

• 19:23Charles Liu?

  Yeah.

• 19:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And I'm told, Chuck, you went on the street?

• 19:26Chuck Nice?

  Yes, we did, man. We went on the street and, you know, just to pretty much seek out and find out what people, where they are on the nerd scale.

• 19:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 19:36Chuck Nice?

  And I gotta tell you, I was very surprised.

• 19:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's fine, huh?

• 19:41Chuck Nice?

  Can I ask you some questions, my friend? I'm gonna give you three names. Tell me which one is a nerd. Uh, Whoopi Goldberg, Bill Gates, Morgan Freeman. Bill Gates?

• 19:53Charles Liu?

  Whichever one makes more money.

• 19:55Chuck Nice?

  Bill Gates. Nope, trick question. All three, all three. Yes, it is Whoopi. Whoopi's cool. Whoopi is cool, but she's a cool nerd. Yeah, yeah. She's totally into sci-fi. She played Gideon on Star Trek. You're nerd? Are you nerd, sir? Why do nerds get bullied, in your estimation? Because we're different. People are really jealous. People are afraid of knowledge. People are afraid of knowledge, and they're jealous because nerds rule, right? Nerds of the world, unite!

• 20:25Chuck Nice?

  How do nerds get revenge? I mean, I'm not talking, you wanna talk about the movie or you wanna talk about, like, real life? Well, you really are a nerd, aren't you?

• 20:34Speaker 04

  In real life? Yeah, real life. You get your PhD and you hire the people that bully you. Boom!

• 20:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, coming up, Whoopi and I continue to engage in nerd speak. And this time we'll talk about people in space. And she's all over it, next, on StarTalk.

• 21:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're back on StarTalk in the Hall of the Universe beneath the Hayden Sphere, right here at the American Museum of Natural History. And we're featuring my interview with Whoopi Goldberg. And she and I are just geeking out in my office. Let's check it out.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  If we could send folks to the moon, they got out of the capsule, they partied.

• 21:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, played golf, drove around.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  Played golf, drove around. What did we see up there that prevented us from going back? What slowed us down? What did we see up there? How come there's no Mickey D on the moon yet?

• 21:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm gonna tell you.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  All right.

• 21:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You ready? You listening? You're not listening?

• 21:48Speaker 01

  I am.

• 21:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right.

• 21:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Ask why we went to the moon in the first place. Was it because we're explorers? We're discoverers? No, we went to beat the Russians.

• 21:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And we got to the moon and we saw the Russians have no actual plan to get to the moon. Once we figured that out, we were done with the entire quest. Because it was never a quest to begin with. It was a demonstration of might in a cold war against a sworn communist enemy. That's why we have not left low Earth orbit since 19 frickin' 72. Now, we want to go to Mars? We'll never go to Mars unless we find oil on Mars. Okay? Or China says, I think we, they leak a memo. Then it had to be true. Leak a memo that want to put military bases on Mars.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We'll be on Mars like that, so...

• 22:42Speaker 01

  Are the Chinese going into space?

• 22:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah! They're called taikonauts. We don't even call them astronauts, they're called taikonauts.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  Okay, so...

• 22:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Chinese said they're going to space, they went into space.

• 22:52Speaker 01

  But did anybody see it? Does any, can they prove it?

• 22:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We got, we got, we got people. We have cameras in high places.

• 23:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Charles.

• 23:03Charles Liu?

  Yes.

• 23:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What's it gonna take to get out of low Earth orbit?

• 23:06Charles Liu?

  Okay, first of all, we already out of low Earth.

• 23:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Humans, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Don't mess with me.

• 23:13Charles Liu?

  Yeah, no, I still think that Discovery using robots counts.

• 23:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I so don't agree with you.

• 23:22Charles Liu?

  Let's go back to those Chinese, okay? The Taekwon nuts, by the way.

• 23:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Let me tell you something about the Chinese.

• 23:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They're huge. Huge, huge, huge. Huge.

• 23:34Charles Liu?

  Sorry. The Chinese space program is alive and well because the government wants to make a point. You're actually right. So they're trying to knit some sort of national identity into going into space, right? I think what we need is an identity, an importance of going out into space that supersedes mere competition to convince everyone that it's actually worth it for us to go out into space for something greater than either vanity, or military, or economics.

• 24:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're doomed.

• 24:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So...

• 24:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So when I think of American accomplishments in the great Apollo era and I compare them to today, we know the golden age of space exploration from the 60s was way different in terms of commitment, expense, love, when you compare it to today. And there's surely some data lurking in there that'll give me some insight in how to think about these two eras. And anytime I need some data, I need some Mona, okay? So Mona, can I get some data, please?

• 24:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mona Chalabi. She's a data journalist with The Guardian. So Mona, what do you have on space for me?

• 24:44Speaker 05

  So as you know, we haven't been back to the moon specifically since 1972, but there's still a lot of money that's available to be doing this stuff. So in 2013, the space program's budget was $39 billion. That's more than every single other country's budget for this combined. So the US is still the world leader by a long, long way.

• 25:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So this is all very hopeful. The budgets are going up, companies investing it are going up. So you're saying my skepticism is unfounded?

• 25:13Speaker 05

  Not quite, because the budgets aren't actually going up. As a percentage of GDP, spending on the space program has fallen in the US over time. The difference is that the gap between the US and the rest of the world still remains vast despite that.

• 25:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so, uh, it means we'll still be doing stuff in space even if we don't go anyplace truly extraordinary.

• 25:35Speaker 05

  Maybe.

• 25:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay. All right. Mona Chalabi, thank you.

• 25:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We gotta go to commercial, but we actually changed topics in this next segment. And so, Charles, as much as we love your geekitude, we, we need to swap you out with somebody else.

• 25:50Charles Liu?

  I happily accede to yet another awesome geek.

• 25:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay. Charles Liu in this segment. Yes. So up next, we change gears in my interview, and we talk about the science of medical marijuana with Whoopi Goldberg. And StarTalk returns.

• 26:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome back to StarTalk, right here in the Hall of the Universe of the American Museum of Natural History. And we're featuring my interview with American icon, Whoopi Goldberg. And we've been geeking out over Star Trek and, and, and superheroes, and then the conversation changed, and we started talking about her latest passion, medicinal marijuana. So, let's do this.

• 26:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Now, I am no marijuana expert, but I, we found one. Yes, we found Stacy Gruber. Stacy, welcome to StarTalk.

• 26:49Speaker 06

  Thank you, so nice to be here.

• 26:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're the director of the Marijuana Investigations for Neuroscientific Discovery.

• 26:58Speaker 06

  Mind, yeah.

• 26:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mind, mind.

• 27:00Speaker 06

  The Mind Program, yeah.

• 27:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, the acronym. Okay, cool, and you're a psychiatrist?

• 27:04Speaker 06

  Uh, associate professor of psychiatry.

• 27:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Associate professor of psychiatry.

• 27:08Speaker 06

  A neuroscientist.

• 27:08Chuck Nice?

  Neuroscientist.

• 27:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So she's got it all. She, it's like, there it is.

• 27:13Chuck Nice?

  Listen, you covering, and listen, this is a very good lesson to children, to stay in school until you can have enough credentials to say, "I need to smoke weed."

• 27:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  For research.

• 27:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so your patients call you Pot Doc.

• 27:32Speaker 06

  Among other things, that's true.

• 27:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Among, okay.

• 27:35Speaker 06

  That is true.

• 27:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so your, your expertise will come in handy for this next section of my interview with Whoopi Goldberg, because it's all about her interest in marijuana.

• 27:46Speaker 06

  Excellent.

• 27:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, let's check it out.

• 27:47Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 27:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  I'm interested in marijuana as medicine. I think that if I don't have to take an oxycodone, I don't want to. If I don't have to take Valium, I don't want to. If I can rub something and get relief, I'm all for that. When I was younger, I got horrific menstrual cramps, to the point where I had to take really hard drugs to quell the pain.

• 28:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Hmm.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  Now, if you've never had cramps, it's not something you would think about. But this is, this is a lot of people on the planet who go through this every day, or, or every month. So, I created, along with my friend Maya Elizabeth.

• 28:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Is that in your pocket?

• 28:31Speaker 01

  I have it in my pocket.

• 28:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This is like hair bomb.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  It does.

• 28:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Can I put something on my?

• 28:38Speaker 01

  Yes, actually, you can, because this is what I will tell you. If you are having issues with your muscles.

• 28:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, the cannabis in here?

• 28:46Speaker 01

  Yes, is good for you. You can't smoke it.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  You can't get high from this, but you can catch relief. And so, for, for me, in particular, for me, I just wanted to create something that would give you an alternative to pills. There's nothing wrong with pills, and this is not going to work for everybody, but it'll work for some.

• 29:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Stacy, what are the most common ailments that marijuana is prescribed for?

• 29:17Speaker 06

  So, patients often seek certification or recommendation from doctors for lots of different things. Chronic pain, post-traumatic stress disorder, epilepsy. Every state has different indications for which you can be certified.

• 29:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, but, but there's another, there's a tandem story going on here, and that's what the consequences are of people taking.

• 29:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Other sort of traditional medicines for many of those same ailments and the consequences of it. So, tell me, how bad is this addiction to prescription drugs?

• 29:49Speaker 06

  Oh, it's really a national epidemic at this point. I think people have acknowledged that we really have a problem here with prescription misuse. And again, things like heroin, you know, oxy.

• 29:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I just gotta understand, if I'm in pain and I take medicine to cure the pain, why is that misuse?

• 30:04Speaker 06

  I'm not sure that that would be misuse. Unfortunately, that may be how it starts.

• 30:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, what happens? My pain actually goes away, but what is my urge to want to keep taking the pill?

• 30:12Speaker 06

  So, you have a reward circuitry system in your brain. And you get used to having this exogenous, let's say, opiate onboard, and you like it.

• 30:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Exogenous.

• 30:21Speaker 06

  Outside, outside of you.

• 30:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Thank you.

• 30:24Speaker 06

  Outside of you, as opposed to your...

• 30:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's erogenous.

• 30:26Speaker 06

  That's different. That's a whole different topic, a whole different show.

• 30:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's a different show.

• 30:29Speaker 06

  A whole different show, although she did talk about rubbing it, so I, you know...

• 30:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, right, right, okay.

• 30:32Speaker 06

  No judgment, no judgment. But, uh, but yeah, so outside.

• 30:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Exogenous.

• 30:37Speaker 06

  You get used to having that onboard, and people love the feeling of feeling good. And it makes sense. Our reward circuitry, the reward circuitry in your brain is very powerful.

• 30:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Very powerful.

• 30:45Speaker 06

  And drugs really hijack that circuitry.

• 30:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They hijack the circuitry. So, now, my ailment is, the pain is no longer there, but I'm liking the drugs.

• 30:52Speaker 06

  You're liking the drugs.

• 30:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And I keep taking it, and I have to take more to get the same pleasure from it. And there it is.

• 30:57Speaker 06

  And there it is. And it is a biological drive that is unbelievably strong. It's not about will, it's not about, you know, I just want to take the drug. You cannot stop yourself, despite the fact that you may lose your job, your family, everything that's ever meant anything to you, you have no choice. It's, you're fighting biology.

• 31:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, let me go back to the marijuana for a moment. Are there known positive effects beyond what the obvious ones are from smoking it? Can you really rub it on and cure the way Whoopi describes?

• 31:27Speaker 06

  Yes, there are different routes of administration. You can use a transdermal patch, you can use a topical, you can use a sublingual tincture, so under the tongue, put a little, you know, a few drops and see what happens. In fact, lots of people use things like that.

• 31:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  These are all ways to get the chemical into your system?

• 31:43Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 31:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, okay.

• 31:45Chuck Nice?

  Don't forget brownies.

• 31:46Speaker 06

  Right, right. Don't forget edibles, right, don't forget edibles.

• 31:50Chuck Nice?

  I'm saying.

• 31:51Speaker 06

  That's exactly right.

• 31:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, Whoopi had plenty to say on these topics. Plenty to say when we chatted. Let's check out more on that conversation.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  I've been a believer in medicinal marijuana for forty years because I've seen

• 32:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Forty, not four.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  Forty.

• 32:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Forty years.

• 32:08Speaker 01

  Four zero. Because I've had friends, a couple of them who have passed from cancer and I saw the relief that they got from marijuana and wondered why no one said, "Hey, we should look at this because it's, you know, there's some medicinal points here." And it's apparently because Nixon put a thing together saying, "You know, why we can't make it illegal to be black or to be a hippie." So we decided we're gonna get marijuana. We're gonna make it a Schedule I drug, which means there is no redeeming qualities in it.

• 32:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  A drug that was frequently used by the hippies.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  By hippies and black folks. They said, "So we're making this a Schedule I drug so we can really bust people." Schedule I drugs are drugs, there are no reason for them to be in existence except to get you high. That's not the case with marijuana. It's never been the case. I mean, Queen Victoria used tinctures of marijuana for pain. I mean, there are a lot of things that we know happened. So if we discovered that this law, this idea that it's become a Schedule I drug stems solely from Nixon, says to me, "Maybe we should kinda revisit this, just based on that."

• 33:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Stacy, I'm looking at a list, a partial list of Schedule I drugs. Marijuana is on that list, right alongside heroin.

• 33:43Speaker 06

  Heroin, LSD.

• 33:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, and Schedule II drugs are cocaine. I don't understand.

• 33:50Speaker 06

  That's a great question.

• 33:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What's up with that?

• 33:53Speaker 06

  I wish I knew.

• 33:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Why'd I bring you on the show? You can't answer.

• 33:56Speaker 06

  Well, let me try. So Schedule I by definition, as will be mentioned, means it has no accepted medical value. There's demonstrated risk of liability for abuse and it hasn't demonstrated safety. Those are the three mandatory requirements of Schedule I, okay? So all the substances in that class are supposed to meet that requirement. There are a lot of people who think that marijuana doesn't belong in Schedule I. And in fact, seems like there was an awful lot going on politically during the Controlled Substance Act that classified marijuana.

• 34:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The Controlled Substance Act, traceable to 1970, I guess.

• 34:32Speaker 06

  Correct.

• 34:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's been modified along... It's a changeable thing, I presume?

• 34:35Speaker 06

  It's a changeable thing, and there have been things that have been added. And in fact, there's questions right now in the DEA about reclassifying marijuana.

• 34:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Drug Enforcement Agency?

• 34:45Speaker 06

  DEA, yep, Drug Enforcement Agency, about reclassifying marijuana.

• 34:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so you look at the data. Apparently marijuana's been used since 2700 B.C.

• 34:57Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Earliest records.

• 34:58Speaker 06

  But it's been used throughout history. I have a great slide, and I show Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and instead of a fig leaf, it's a cannabis leaf, to sort of demonstrate that it's really been around since the beginning of time.

• 35:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, gotta know your leafs.

• 35:08Speaker 06

  That explains the talking snake. Exactly right. Exactly right. That's it.

• 35:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right, coming up, more about the science of medical marijuana. We'll find out what we know and what we don't know when StarTalk returns.

• 35:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're back from StarTalk, right here under the Hayden Sphere of the American Museum of Natural History. And we're featuring my interview with pop culture icon Whoopi Goldberg. And we've been talking about her deep interest in medicinal marijuana. Let's check it out.

• 35:57Speaker 01

  There are children in our country that suffer from these horrific seizures. And the medicines are very hard on the body of little children.

• 36:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The current medicines.

• 36:09Speaker 01

  The current medicines. Now, we find that there were growers who have been growing marijuana for many years and working with it and extracting oils and really looking for ways to make it something that is... that works for humanity. So they discover something that seems to...

• 36:32Speaker 01

  Pull back the seizures and allow children to live as children.

• 36:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Is there laboratory evidence that this works?

• 36:39Speaker 01

  Well, there would have been, but as you know, it's almost impossible to get laboratory evidence with a Schedule I drug. You see, so what we've done and what many parents have done is they've given up their lives and moved to where they can get it so their kid can have a...

• 37:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Diminish symptoms.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  Diminish symptoms and just some kind of quality of life. So for me, if parents are that desperate, why are you not looking at what they've put together? They are your clinic, they're your trials. But the minute you denigrate them and say, "Well, you don't know what you're looking at." You know if your kid is back or whether your kid is monosyllabic because they are in the throes of their illness. Parents who are only really trying to find a way to make their children's lives better, they're not trying to go get high because all you need is an app. If you want to get high, there are weed apps. You can go, you can find weed anywhere.

• 37:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Chuck, the cameras are rolling. What are you doing?

• 37:48Chuck Nice?

  Nah, man, I'm just downloading an app.

• 37:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, damn it, I'm good.

• 37:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Stacy, tell me about this seizure condition that she's referring to.

• 38:02Speaker 06

  So I think some years ago, there was an awful lot of attention paid to a little girl named Charlotte Figgy. Charlotte Figgy was very unfortunately diagnosed with an intractable form of epilepsy called Dravet's syndrome. And this little girl was having upwards of 300 seizures a week. She couldn't walk, she couldn't really talk, she was really not doing well. And I think doctors had basically told their parent, her parents, that they were at the end of the line with regard to medicine. And someone mentioned the possibility of trying medicinal cannabis.

• 38:37Speaker 06

  And now there are some clinical trials, but that little girl is walking and talking and having a life, and lots of other kids are having similar response. The clinical trial, which appears to be showing some very promising results, is really quite extraordinary.

• 38:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so, this wouldn't have been possible unless, was she one of those, what do you call them, marijuana refugees?

• 38:58Speaker 06

  So I think they live there, yeah, the medical marijuana refugees are people who relocate, they give up everything. These families give up their homes, their lives, their everything, to move across the country to a state where it's legal for their kids to get treatment, because there's no other way, with regard to the federal laws as they are, to get products that are able to treat their children.

• 39:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, what's the research on the effect of marijuana on the developing brain?

• 39:22Speaker 06

  So, what we know about the developing brain, and you know, my budding neuroscience fellow over here is gonna, is gonna corroborate this. The brain, it's true, just wait a second. The brain develops from the back to the front, bottom to the top, last part of the brain to become developed is that, I'm telling you, right here, right here.

• 39:38Chuck Nice?

  Which is why teenagers are dumb as hell. If you're a teenager, you're the stupidest person on earth, and you don't have the ability to make good decisions, because the part of your brain that is, allows you to make the best decision, has not been developed yet. Am I right?

• 39:55Speaker 06

  I'm telling you, he could have a job.

• 39:57Chuck Nice?

  And listen. I never read about any of this, I'm high right now.

• 40:07Speaker 06

  There you go. But, but it's true.

• 40:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But, so should there be an age restriction on legalized marijuana?

• 40:13Speaker 06

  The developing brain really is vulnerable, not just to drugs, but to alcohol, to injury, to illness, to everything, because the frontal part of your brain, I don't know that I'd say the stupidest people, I'd say really-

• 40:24Chuck Nice?

  You don't have a teenager.

• 40:25Speaker 06

  That's very true, I do not. I do, I see a lot of them, but I do not have one.

• 40:28Chuck Nice?

  I got one at home right now.

• 40:30Speaker 06

  There we go.

• 40:31Chuck Nice?

  And let me tell you something, she was smart, until she hit thirteen, and once the teen went on the, I'm like, you, what happened? What happened?

• 40:39Speaker 06

  But they're vulnerable, vulnerable to lots of different things, and so people have suggested, we know the brain develops throughout the second and into the third decade of life, it's a long time. So we don't want to really expose them too much to things that may affect the ways in which their brain develops, and in fact, exposure to cannabis, our research and lots of, lots of other research studies shows that- If you're exposed early, you're gonna look a little bit different than those who are exposed later.

• 41:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, coming up, Bill Nye the Science Guy is gonna give his take on medicinal marijuana use when StarTalk returns.

• 41:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome back to StarTalk. Right here at the American Museum of Natural History in Central Park West, New York City. We're featuring my interview with Whoopi Goldberg, and we were talking about medicinal marijuana. Let's check it out.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  I use marijuana for two reasons. I get, and not blinding, but I get pretty bad headaches from glaucoma.

• 41:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, okay.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  So, I didn't realize that the weed helped me until I stopped. I stopped smoking cigarettes about five years ago.

• 42:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  And discovered I could no longer take a, I could no longer take a breath with a paper.

• 42:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  And I thought, well, okay, that's kinda sad, 'cause I can't smoke anymore.

• 42:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What, does it irritate you? You just can't get the breath in?

• 42:18Speaker 01

  I can't.

• 42:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Inhale it?

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Inhale it. It's just, it's hard. It hurts. Can't do it. So, and I was talking to my daughter. I said, "Well, I'm starting to get these crazy headaches again, so I gotta figure out what to do." She said, "I think I might be able to help you, because there's something called a vape pen." And I thought, "Well, I don't wanna hooka." I thought she was talking about a hookah. And she said, "No, no, it's, it's the THC oil, and it may help you." I call it my sippy pen, because I can sip it to the place where I need it to be, where it doesn't hurt anymore. So, I'm not, again, I'm not looking to get high-high, 'cause, you know, at this age, I don't need to get high. But I would like to be pain-free. And so, this works. So, I use it for that.

• 43:04Speaker 01

  And this is what it looks like.

• 43:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What is in your other pocket?

• 43:07Speaker 01

  That's right. This is what it looks like. And this is the oil inside.

• 43:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So this burns and you, and the vapor of the oil?

• 43:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 43:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And that gives you that effect?

• 43:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 43:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wow.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  And it works well for me. You know, there's a lot of ill people. And this is really a way for them to get through their day. Um, and so, you know, I just, I want people to feel better.

• 43:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Stacy, the three layers of, I guess, three stages of marijuana access. One stage is just illegal. The next one is medically legal. Third one, it's recreationally legal.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And different states have this at different stages. So in, in a perfect future, what should these laws look like?

• 44:00Speaker 06

  I think the laws would be informed by science. What we have now is policy has outpaced science. We have laws that have been passed without much science to back it up.

• 44:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so why are we passing laws without the science behind it? When in fact, they're based on things that science can resolve?

• 44:15Speaker 06

  Another really good question. Since I'm not a legislator or policymaker, I can't answer that for you. But I can tell you that policy is over here.

• 44:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so somebody needs to be out there saying, here's the science. Here's what we know. Here's what we don't know.

• 44:25Speaker 06

  Exactly.

• 44:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're gonna make legislation based on what we know.

• 44:28Speaker 06

  Exactly right.

• 44:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Is anybody doing that?

• 44:30Speaker 06

  I think people are starting to pay attention to the need. And now there's a little bit of, an attempt to sort of back and fill. And people are making strides at trying to get to the bottom of what we might be able to understand from cannabinoid-based therapies, for example.

• 44:43Chuck Nice?

  So what you're really saying is, all of Congress needs to smoke a bone. Like, if we could just get Congress to smoke a bone. They would realize that they are being ridiculous. And we would have some common sense legislation surrounding this.

• 45:01Speaker 06

  I guess that's one way to look at it, sure.

• 45:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, before we wrap, I want to make sure we catch up with Bill Nye, the Science Guy, good friend. And in our segment, we call Nye Times in the City. And in this case, it's about medicinal marijuana. Let's check it out.

• 45:20Speaker 07

  Oh, man, a day in the park. Isn't beautiful?

• 45:27Speaker 07

  You know, the first written records of cannabis use goes back over 5,000 years to ancient China. In all that time, people have used it for medicine and for rituals. When the leaves are burned, it releases good old tetrahydrocannabinol, what you might call THC. Replaces certain chemicals in your brain. Affects your decision center, which is above your right eye and in front of your right ear, up here. In your brain someplace. Now, people use it to relieve the symptoms of multiple sclerosis, to control seizures, and to take care of the nausea that comes sometimes after chemotherapy. It's amazing.

• 46:09Speaker 07

  Now, for my part, I've tried to smoke cigarettes on camera a few times. I just can't do it. Smoke makes me sick. But since I don't smoke, I just come out to a park like this and get high on life.

• 46:28Speaker 07

  Back to you, Neil.

• 46:33Chuck Nice?

  He's in the grass. I love the metaphorical, the visual metaphor.

• 46:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, it's not often I might have parting thoughts that are based entirely on the profile of our principal guest in this show, who's Whoopi Goldberg. But I couldn't stop reflecting on the fact that we are talking about marijuana. Earlier in the show, we talked about Star Trek. We talked about superheroes. We talked about all their roles in pop culture. And we're doing this because she cares about it. Because Whoopi Goldberg cares about it. And then, who is Whoopi Goldberg? She dropped out of high school. Dropped out of high school.

• 47:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And her ambition carried her from the depths of what anyone would consider is society, the lowest points in society. She rose up, became a comedian, an actress, an Academy Award-winning actress. Wins the Tony, the Emmy. And I'm privileged to call her a friend.

• 47:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, the fact that people like that are walking around, I think gives hope to us all. That no matter your background, no matter your skin color, no matter your educational profile, there's a place for you in the future of this country, in a way that can influence millions of other people, simply because of your passion and your love for what you do. And that's a message from the universe and from StarTalk. I'm your host, your personal astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson, and as always, I bid you to keep looking up. Yes.