Conquering the Game, with Tony Gonzalez

As we gear up for Super Bowl LIV, Neil deGrasse Tyson sits down with NFL legend Tony Gonzalez to explore his football career, quantum mechanics, veganism, success, and much more. Featuring co-hosts Gary O’Reilly and Chuck Nice. NOTE: StarTalk+ Patrons and All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/show/conquering-the-game-with-tony-gonzalez/ Photo Credit: Vayner Talent.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome to StarTalk. Your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now.

• 0:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  StarTalk. Yuliel Grass Tyson, your personal astrophysicist. This is sports edition of StarTalk. Every now and then, we throw in one of those. I've got Chuck Nice.

• 0:26Chuck Nice?

  That's right, sir.

• 0:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Chuck in the house.

• 0:27Chuck Nice?

  What's up, buddy?

• 0:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Tweeting Chuck Nice comic.

• 0:29Chuck Nice?

  Thank you, sir, yes.

• 0:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Garrett Riley, former footballer.

• 0:31Gary O'Reilly?

  Yep.

• 0:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We can do a fist bump, too?

• 0:33Gary O'Reilly?

  We can.

• 0:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You looked a little awkward there, but...

• 0:35Gary O'Reilly?

  Didn't want to knock the mic over.

• 0:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  How about that?

• 0:39Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, they... Oh, right.

• 0:40Chuck Nice?

  Underneath.

• 0:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Today, we're featuring my interview, unexpurgated, straight-on-through with Tony Gonzalez, the football great for the Kansas City Chiefs.

• 0:50Chuck Nice?

  One of the greatest tight ends to ever play the game.

• 0:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And he played for the Chiefs...

• 0:53Chuck Nice?

  And by that, I don't mean his position.

• 0:55Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, for heaven's sake.

• 0:59Gary O'Reilly?

  You happy now?

• 1:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, you got that off your... Okay.

• 1:03Gary O'Reilly?

  Got it out early, that's it.

• 1:04Chuck Nice?

  Oh, that's such a great old joke.

• 1:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's so old. He was with the Chiefs from 1997 to 2008. And then he went to the Falcons. And now he's an on-air analyst for Fox NFL Sunday.

• 1:20Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 1:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 1:21Gary O'Reilly?

  But the Chiefs are in the Super Bowl.

• 1:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Chiefs are in the Super Bowl.

• 1:24Gary O'Reilly?

  Super Bowl 54 against the 49ers. And Gonzalez, I don't believe, ever won a playoff game.

• 1:32Chuck Nice?

  Damn.

• 1:32Gary O'Reilly?

  In all his time at the Chiefs.

• 1:33Chuck Nice?

  Poor guy.

• 1:34Gary O'Reilly?

  And he's sitting there, I mean, he is awesome, but he doesn't have that one thing, that ring that sets you above and beyond.

• 1:41Chuck Nice?

  Well, that would be the overwhelming majority of NFL players, though.

• 1:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, I think so.

• 1:47Gary O'Reilly?

  How many would that go?

• 1:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're saying this is him like he has some unique... Issue, but you were saying he's so good.

• 1:52Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 1:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That he should have.

• 1:54Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 1:54Chuck Nice?

  Well, he should have just went to the Patriots and he would have been, he would have got, that's what everybody did.

• 1:58Gary O'Reilly?

  Still got that Patriots itch, haven't you, can't they?

• 2:00Chuck Nice?

  Listen, I'm just saying, you know, it's a, it's.

• 2:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's what, that's what A-Rod did. He was on a losing team twice.

• 2:05Chuck Nice?

  That's right, and he was like, screw that.

• 2:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Put my ass on the Yankees.

• 2:08Chuck Nice?

  That's it.

• 2:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And then he went ahead and, and won the championship.

• 2:10Gary O'Reilly?

  So, okay, let's look forward to Bowl 54.

• 2:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so.

• 2:13Gary O'Reilly?

  Chiefs and Niners, what's the deal?

• 2:15Chuck Nice?

  Um.

• 2:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Who, who's your money on?

• 2:17Chuck Nice?

  I, you know, here's the thing.

• 2:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Don't ask me that, because I don't bet.

• 2:20Chuck Nice?

  The Niners look great, but my money is on my man, Mahomes. I like the Chiefs and I also, of course, you know, Andy Reid.

• 2:30Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 2:30Chuck Nice?

  Coached the Philadelphia Eagles for quite some time and so, uh, you know, being an Eagles fan, uh, you know, I gotta, I gotta root for Andy.

• 2:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What's with the no throw quarterback?

• 2:39Chuck Nice?

  The no throw quarterback.

• 2:40Gary O'Reilly?

  Jimmy Garoppolo.

• 2:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, what's going on there?

• 2:42Chuck Nice?

  And here's the thing, and, and everybody says this, like, Garoppolo isn't, doesn't throw the ball because they, they rush the ball for 200 whatever yards. So what? He won. That's the deal. That's what you want to do.

• 2:55Gary O'Reilly?

  Is it not because he doesn't throw because he throws interceptions too often?

• 2:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's what I'm wondering.

• 2:59Gary O'Reilly?

  Coach Shanahan's gone, ah, ah, ah, we're running this thing.

• 3:02Chuck Nice?

  Well, no, I think, I think Garoppolo will have a good game. If he, if he has to throw the ball, he'll throw the ball, but you do what you have to do to win. If the 49ers come out and the Chiefs can't stop the run, guess what? That's what they're gonna do all day long, just like they did to, to, to, against the Titans.

• 3:17Gary O'Reilly?

  But surely the, the strategy must be, can we keep Mahomes off the field? In which case we dominate, we eat the clock if we're the Niners, just by run, by run, by run, by run.

• 3:28Chuck Nice?

  Problem with trying to keep Mahomes off the field is he only has to be on the field for 22 seconds to score a touchdown. That's the problem with Patrick Mahomes, you know, the guy can score so quickly. I, I really don't see the 49ers winning this game, but, you know, I mean, that and my opinion and $2, $4.90 will get you a cup of coffee.

• 3:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He's just still, he only ever wants Philadelphia to be in the, you know, you got.

• 3:54Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, but that's why, it's understandable.

• 3:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Issues.

• 3:56Chuck Nice?

  I do have issues, yes I do, yes. And I'm living vicariously through Kansas City because of Andy Reid, so, you know, I'm, I'm pretending as.

• 4:04Gary O'Reilly?

  My romantic heart says Mahomes and the Chiefs.

• 4:08Speaker 03

  Not a fan of Carapolo, huh?

• 4:09Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 4:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:10Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 4:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Let me ask you, as a former pro baller, what, a former-

• 4:16Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes, soccer player.

• 4:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Foot-

• 4:18Gary O'Reilly?

  Footballer.

• 4:19Speaker 03

  Footbola.

• 4:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Footbola.

• 4:21Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 4:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If you're never on a championship, but you're really good,

• 4:24Gary O'Reilly?

  Hmm.

• 4:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  How does that affect you?

• 4:27Gary O'Reilly?

  It'd break your heart.

• 4:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It will?

• 4:29Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 4:30Speaker 03

  Well, we're sorry.

• 4:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Do you want to get traded, or you want to up the game of the rest of your players?

• 4:35Gary O'Reilly?

  It's never easy like that. It's never as simple as, you know, I want to get traded. Because the moment must be right, the team doesn't want to let you go, there might not be a team you can go to that has a space for you to fill.

• 4:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Or they might be paying you so much.

• 4:48Gary O'Reilly?

  There you go. They bought me.

• 4:50Speaker 03

  Now you just changed my whole mind about the whole thing. Now I don't care. Because you just mentioned how much money they get paid.

• 4:58Speaker 03

  Go cry on your money, that's what I say.

• 4:59Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 5:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Take your losing ass and cry on your pile of million dollars.

• 5:04Speaker 03

  Right.

• 5:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, without any further delay.

• 5:08Speaker 03

  Right.

• 5:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Let's go straight to my exclusive one-on-one interview with Tony Gonzalez.

• 5:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  California kid, huh?

• 5:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So-

• 5:18Speaker 03

  Surfing, all that stuff.

• 5:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Really?

• 5:20Speaker 03

  Surfing, skateboarding.

• 5:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, man. Went to college in California?

• 5:23Speaker 03

  Went to Berkeley, uh, went to-

• 5:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Berkeley, Berkeley is Cal, is that right?

• 5:27Speaker 03

  Cal, Cal Berkeley.

• 5:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Cal Berkeley.

• 5:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, crazy Berkeley.

• 5:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Alright.

• 5:31Speaker 03

  Naked people, orange hair, pierced nipples, all that stuff. It was good, it was eye-opening experience.

• 5:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What color was your hair?

• 5:38Speaker 03

  Uh, I did dye my hair.

• 5:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You did?

• 5:40Speaker 03

  I dyed it blonde, I had blonde tips.

• 5:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, wow, okay.

• 5:43Speaker 03

  It was the thing.

• 5:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, okay. You were young, you were-

• 5:47Speaker 03

  I was young, I was finding myself, in fact.

• 5:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Finding yourself. Uh, what sports in high school did you do?

• 5:51Speaker 03

  Uh, football and basketball.

• 5:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And basketball?

• 5:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, basketball too. I went to Berkeley to play basketball.

• 5:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Really?

• 5:57Speaker 03

  That was my thing, this guy named Jason Kidd.

• 5:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, I heard of him.

• 6:00Speaker 03

  Greatest players of all time.

• 6:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 6:01Speaker 03

  Uh, he was the big guy on campus there, and so I took my trip up there, and he was my host.

• 6:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Really, okay.

• 6:07Speaker 03

  And they had a pretty good football-

• 6:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Back when he was an undergraduate?

• 6:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, back when he was there. And, uh, and I was like, I'm coming to Berkeley. And, uh, that was, that's probably the biggest reason I went to Berkeley, is because of Jason Kidd and-

• 6:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And the basketball. What are you, six, what?

• 6:18Speaker 03

  Six-five.

• 6:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Six-five, okay. That could, that works in college.

• 6:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, it worked. I did, I did good, but I also played football too.

• 6:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 6:25Speaker 03

  I could have, I was better at football until there was Tuit, and so I could have went to any school I wanted to in the country. Uh, to play football.

• 6:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right.

• 6:33Speaker 03

  But, uh, but I wanted a school that wanted me to play basketball as well, cause that was where my heart was.

• 6:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, okay.

• 6:38Speaker 03

  I loved them both.

• 6:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But you gotta do, you gotta do, you know, follow the heart.

• 6:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so, basketball and football are so completely different with regard to human contact.

• 6:48Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 6:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Body contact.

• 6:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so why does, you can say you're good at football, but are you, you were also good at not getting injured at football?

• 6:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Alright, I was looking at some of these numbers. It's like, this is crazy. Were you ever injured? Like, ever, how many games did you not play in your seventeen years of football?

• 7:07Speaker 03

  I missed two games.

• 7:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You missed two games?

• 7:09Speaker 03

  Two games, and that was pretty early in my career.

• 7:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This is superhero stuff.

• 7:12Speaker 03

  Well, you know.

• 7:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This is, what are you, what are you made of, dude?

• 7:18Speaker 03

  This is, uh, I guess my mom, my mom would love to take credit for that after.

• 7:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Are you made of adamantium? Are you, are you made of some superhero material? How do you, how do you miss two games in seventeen years?

• 7:29Speaker 03

  I have a high pain tolerance. Honesty, first of all, football.

• 7:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, what happened for you to miss two games?

• 7:35Speaker 03

  Um, well, I can show you here. I don't know if this is on camera, but I got a, a bone sticking up out of my shoulder now.

• 7:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:41Speaker 03

  That I fell on.

• 7:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  See, I knew you were constructed in a lab somewhere.

• 7:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If you start showing pieces of you that are pointing in the wrong direction, that means you're not really human.

• 7:52Speaker 03

  Uh, nah, I got lucky. I got lucky, and then I also played, I, I tried to.

• 7:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, so that's one game? Oh, that'll be two games in a row?

• 7:59Speaker 03

  No, I missed one game. I was supposed to miss three weeks, three, four weeks, they said, and then, uh, and I missed the one week, and then after that, they put like a needle into it every week.

• 8:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, wait, you're saying.

• 8:08Speaker 03

  To shoot it up.

• 8:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, wait, wait. You're saying you got your shoulder busted out and you missed one game because of this?

• 8:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, one game. Yeah, one game. They put a little donut on there and then a needle in it.

• 8:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We can rebuild him.

• 8:20Speaker 03

  You gotta get out there. I wanted to get out there. I mean, they say, hey, do you wanna play?

• 8:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, now the other game was what?

• 8:25Speaker 03

  I tore my knee up in preseason something in practice, somebody fell into my knee. And I missed the one game. I tried to play that game and I could have, but coach was like, no.

• 8:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The first game of the season?

• 8:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was the first game of the season. And then after that, I played the rest of the season.

• 8:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so what's this other thing? You had a Bell's palsy? What was that?

• 8:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, I had Bell's-

• 8:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I've heard of this, but I don't know anything about it.

• 8:46Speaker 03

  You don't know about Bell's palsy? So, they don't know where it comes from. It just happens to people, but it's where like your cranial nerve, number eight or something like that gets frozen, or I don't know what it, it gets numb, paralyzed, I'm sorry. And so your whole right side of your face goes paralyzed and numb. And you have to tape your eyes shut to, and keep putting Visine in it to keep it fluid going in there.

• 9:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And you didn't miss a game because of that?

• 9:13Speaker 03

  No, that was during the offseason. Luckily, that was during the offseason. That's what I'm saying, I got lucky. A lot of this stuff happens.

• 9:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, okay, so that's, so that's-

• 9:19Speaker 03

  I had to ask my wife to marry me with that Bell's palsy on my face too. I got down on one knee and I had like half my face melted and I was like-

• 9:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wow, Quasimodo style.

• 9:30Speaker 03

  She like laughed at me as she's taking the ring.

• 9:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, did she say yes?

• 9:33Speaker 03

  She said yes.

• 9:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's very-

• 9:34Speaker 03

  I could just say no to that.

• 9:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I don't face.

• 9:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You can't say no. Yeah, everything but the hunchback, you know, you got the whole Charles Walton face going there.

• 9:44Speaker 03

  Will you please marry me?

• 9:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, but more than anything I've just mentioned is the number of times you have touched the ball. And of those times, how many you dropped the ball?

• 9:59Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 10:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And it was 1,000, I got the number here, a crack team of researchers here. What's that number? 1,327 touches of the ball?

• 10:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And you dropped it how many times?

• 10:11Speaker 03

  Uh, well, I don't, I don't know.

• 10:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Fumbled, fumbled?

• 10:14Speaker 03

  I fumbled, fumbled. I fumbled twice.

• 10:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Twice?

• 10:17Speaker 03

  Twice. And I was very-

• 10:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  1,320-

• 10:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, after my, after my second.

• 10:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What do you have epoxy on your hands? What?

• 10:24Speaker 03

  You know what it is, is uh.

• 10:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, it's a secret. Okay.

• 10:26Speaker 03

  There is a secret. There is a secret.

• 10:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm listening. I'm leaning in on this.

• 10:29Speaker 03

  I lean in on this one because this is uh, this is uh, it happened twice. I fail, I fumbled the ball my junior year at college against Stanford. That was our rival and we lost the game because of me. It was in the fourth quarter.

• 10:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  These are two brainiac schools.

• 10:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Berkeley and Stanford. Right, right, okay.

• 10:44Speaker 03

  And they picked the ball up.

• 10:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You can't lose to Stanford. Come on.

• 10:46Speaker 03

  And we lost because of me, because of me. And so after the game, I was crying uncontrollably. I was, it killed me to, to let my team down like that. Fast forward to my second year in the league. I was in the middle of this.

• 10:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The league?

• 10:58Speaker 03

  NFL, NFL. I was in the NFL, my second season. People know this story. I dropped sixteen balls, led the NFL and dropped passes that year. Uh, and I fumbled uh, twice that year. And I lost the ball for us and it was one, like there's pictures of me slamming, hitting the, the, the, the ground, the earth, the field because I'm so frustrated and pissed off at myself. And that, that's kind of the best thing that ever happened to me. That's, that's where I said to myself, I will never, ever, ever, ever let this happen again. Uh, and yeah, like anytime I had the ball, it was like you're carrying everybody's hopes and aspirations.

• 11:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Just the way you're doing that now.

• 11:36Speaker 03

  Ball. Yeah, it's like you're not getting this from me.

• 11:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That ball ain't ever coming out.

• 11:41Speaker 03

  Can't let it come because if you get a turnover in football, that is the worst thing you can do. That, that's the number one stat in football.

• 11:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And they make, and, and it's on the, on the, on the highlight reel.

• 11:48Speaker 03

  Everybody knows too. And you walk to the sideline and nobody.

• 11:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The blooper reel.

• 11:52Speaker 03

  Nobody wants to say anything to you and when you go to the sideline, everybody's just looking at you like. Lose the game for us. But, and, and so I was, it hurt me so much that I would fumble the ball that I, I really made extra special care not to call it.

• 12:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I think there's not enough written about the value of lessons learned in failure. Because, because I mean, think about it. There are people who think that if they fail, that that's the end of something. Whereas. It's just a matter of your mindset for it to be the beginning of something.

• 12:21Speaker 03

  That's where it starts. That's where I tell people, that's where the gold is. That's where, that's where the growth is. And I think the harder your failure is, first of all, that means you're putting it out there too. Like, if you go for big dreams, when you fail, now it's on a grand scale. Everybody notices it too, which can hurt even more. But I think that's where you make your bones. That's how you, that's how you get better. Everybody that I've ever sat down with who's achieved greatness has usually gone through some terrible times, some really tough circumstances. They got stories.

• 12:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so then what about, how old are you?

• 12:55Speaker 03

  I'm 43.

• 12:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Forty-three, okay. Almost old enough to have grown up at a time where kids were not coddled the way they are today. You go on the playground. Today, there's like sawdust on the thing and rubberized things. When I went as a kid, you play on the monkey bars, it is cement on the ground. It is cement. It is rough cement, okay? And so you fell, you didn't, you never fell again because of the, what the injuries you sustained for having done it the first time. So are there any lessons you can hand forward to parents who don't ever want their kids to fail because that might affect them emotionally and then they'll give up?

• 13:36Speaker 03

  I, I think that's, like I said, that's, I have four kids.

• 13:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What's age range?

• 13:42Speaker 03

  We have an 18-year-old, we have 11, 9, and 4.

• 13:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 13:46Speaker 03

  And so, and one thing, I'm playing, I play catch with my, my 9-year-old in the backyard. He wants to play on the grass because every time he catches the ball, he falls down. And then I'm like, in football, you're not supposed to fall down. You're supposed to go score a touchdown, son. So now, we're gonna play on the cement. Because you can fall down if you want now, go ahead.

• 14:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But now you're gonna try not to fall down.

• 14:04Speaker 03

  He doesn't fall down at all now. He's not falling down.

• 14:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  These are them lessons.

• 14:07Speaker 03

  Lessons in life. But yeah, I think, I think it's important for, for kids to, like I said, I know for me that that's been the biggest opportunity for growth. And so for my children, I try to put them in situations where they can, they can thrive, but at the same time where the, you know, failure is right there with them too. And they will fail because that is where, now I can sit them down and give them a nice little lecture. I know, with, looking me in the eyes and I can tell them, okay, this is why this happened and this is how you can make it better and improve, and this is how you're gonna improve.

• 14:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In my field, we have a similar saying. It's, "The day you stop making mistakes is the day you have confirmed you are no longer on the frontier." And this is, this is a thing. So, uh, what did you major in, in college?

• 14:51Speaker 03

  Uh, psychology.

• 14:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh, so Cal, this, you're, it means you're well educated there, or at least that's the premise of the school.

• 14:59Speaker 03

  I didn't stay too long, I left school early though.

• 15:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, oh, I, I noticed that, a year early. Yeah, okay.

• 15:04Speaker 03

  I was on the five-year plan.

• 15:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You college dropout.

• 15:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Did you ever go back and get the degree?

• 15:10Speaker 03

  Nah.

• 15:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Nah.

• 15:11Speaker 03

  Nah.

• 15:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Nah.

• 15:12Speaker 03

  They're trying to get some, I'm too far away.

• 15:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Here's what you do.

• 15:16Speaker 03

  Why?

• 15:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Just do some great thi- no, here's how you do it. Just do some great things and then invite you back and give you an honorary doctorate.

• 15:21Speaker 03

  I need, like Shaquille O'Neal.

• 15:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And then you, then you leapfrog any of the other degrees and you're fine, and you're good. Um, question for you. What is the, uh, when you played, cause you haven't, you know, you're in academic uh, environment. Cal Berkeley, I mean, they're brilliant people. They're Nobel laureates among the faculty, this sort of thing. Were you ever thinking about your performance analytically? About the physics of it, or the math, or, or were you just doing what felt right?

• 15:50Speaker 03

  I was just doing what felt, back then, I was Neanderthal. It was just, throw me the ball, let's go score. Uh, I didn't really start-

• 15:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Where's the ball, where's the finish? Where's the goal line?

• 16:00Speaker 03

  That was it. And, and really, I hardly did that. I mean, anyway, uh, studying the playbook, I wasn't that good at it and all this.

• 16:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh, it was just-

• 16:07Speaker 03

  It was just talent back then, for me.

• 16:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Primal.

• 16:10Speaker 03

  Primal. And as I got older, that's-

• 16:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But, tell me, but you did go to the gym, you did do, you know, win sprints, you did work out.

• 16:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it wasn't that concentrated effort that I, I approached the game with later in my career. That was kind of forced on me. After I dropped those balls, by the way, that's where my love of reading came. I never, I never bought a book before that, that year, that devastating year. It was devastating to me too, to lead the NFL and drop passes my second year in the league and got benched twice. Uh, and, but it's also, Brooks brought me here. Like, I, I don't think I'd be sitting here if I didn't start educating myself and start reading every word.

• 16:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So a drop pass is, you should have caught it and you didn't.

• 16:50Speaker 03

  I should have caught it.

• 16:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And a fumble is, you're running in full possession of the ball and it pops out of your arms.

• 16:55Speaker 03

  Pops out, they, they knock it out.

• 16:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They knock it out.

• 16:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Which is just embarrassing.

• 16:58Speaker 03

  It's just embarrassing. And you can get benched for doing both, which I did. I got benched-

• 17:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You got your ass benched.

• 17:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, coach is like, go sit on the bench, you're not good enough right now, and maybe we'll see what happens next week, which is devastating.

• 17:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's gotta hurt.

• 17:09Speaker 03

  Getting booed by the home crowd, getting written up in the papers. That that is devastating. I don't know how much criticism you've had, but getting rid up in the papers, it doesn't feel good, especially emotionally. I was twenty two at this point.

• 17:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm hmm.

• 17:21Speaker 03

  You know, I wasn't ready for that and I and I took it to heart, especially, I always tell people, the worst thing, I think I was in a bad situation because I was doing everything I could to be great. And I was, I mean, I was not drinking, I was not partying, I was I was in the gym, I was approaching, I was studying film, I was doing everything great, and it still wasn't working for me. That was so frustrating for me and that really hurt. I mean, I'd go home and I would cry about it. Uh, and

• 17:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Isn't that how champions are made?

• 17:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I think so.

• 17:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's gotta be so painful that you've gotta rectify it.

• 17:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In whatever way you can.

• 18:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So let me ask, your your, to be physically fit is not just musculoskeletally, but also nutrition.

• 18:09Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 18:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So what's this with your relationship to veganism?

• 18:11Speaker 03

  Well, you know, my, uh, uh, real quick story, my, shoot, I think it's about my tenth year in the NFL. We do an annual

• 18:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Ten out of seventeen.

• 18:19Speaker 03

  Ten out of seventeen.

• 18:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's a crazy long number.

• 18:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If I if I'd looked if I looked this up, am I right?

• 18:24Speaker 03

  Oh, that's it's it's absurd.

• 18:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's out of control.

• 18:26Speaker 03

  There's no reason to play it that long.

• 18:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's out of control. Okay, go on.

• 18:29Speaker 03

  Um, so it's my tenth year in the league and and I'm out there in Kansas City, which is where I played for the Chiefs, and I'm getting my annual physical and we give blood. And it's the off season and so I'm driving back to the airport to go back to LA because that's where I stayed during the off season. I just flew in to get the physical. And so on the way to the airport, the the phone rings and it's my trainer from from, uh, from the Chiefs. And he's like, hey, uh, we got your blood back and we need to, we need to talk to you about it. Uh oh. Stuff showed up and I'm like, okay, okay.

• 19:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That can't be good. That can't be

• 19:01Speaker 03

  And he's all, hey, why, we need you to come in because I can't, you know, I'm not going to tell you over the phone. And I'm like, no, you tell me, tell me. And he goes, well, all right, hold on, Tony, I'll have the doctor call you. And the doctor calls me two, two minutes later. The doctor says, hey, Tony, we found some stuff in there. Uh, I need you to come in and talk to you about it. Uh, and I'm like, screw you. I'm going to the airport. You can tell me over the phone if anything. And he goes, well, it turns out your, uh, white blood cell count is really low. Uh, like extremely low. And he gave me the number, twelve out of whatever it was. And he goes, it looks like leukemia. And my heart just, just dropped. And it was like, damn. And I'm like, my first question was, so what does this mean about football? And he goes, he goes, don't, don't worry about football right now, Tony. This is, this is something that's way different.

• 19:46Speaker 03

  Um, and these tests are usually accurate. We're gonna come in, we're gonna run some more tests and we're gonna come up with a plan for you. Don't worry about it. Hangs up the phone. Niagara Falls. I start crying. I'm like, oh shit. Like my life is, is, I don't, you know, it's not what I thought it was gonna be now. And so I get back, uh, I go in and I give blood. And they're talking to me and I'm down and I'm out and they go to the lab and it comes back. They had switched the blood up with somebody else. It was an accident, which I ha- I guess happens a lot. Um, they said, they said it's not that uncommon. And so basically I was healthy and I'm fine. And I felt bad for the guy who got the clean blood, who needs to be told that, hey, actually you do have this now. But, um, but it, there was kind of like a light bulb went off.

• 20:30Speaker 03

  It was a, I was reading this book called, uh, um, The China Study, uh, written by Dr. Campbell. And it was a plant, uh, plant-based, Whole Foods.

• 20:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Very influential study.

• 20:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, a great study.

• 20:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It studied diets in all the different provinces of China.

• 20:45Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 20:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And compared them, cause China gets to obtain that kind of data on their citizens.

• 20:50Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 20:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's what enables that. That's why it's not done in the United States. It's a China study. But yeah, go on.

• 20:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, so, so, so I read that book. Uh, I was thinking about maybe, okay, all these different changes in my life. And before that, I, you name it, I ate it. I was eating chicken wings, you know, chugging beer, pizza, all that stuff, all the time. I, I, you know, eating healthy was not part of my vocabulary. It was like, I just ate what I ate, cause I didn't know any better. And so, uh, and so then I just said, screw it. I'm gonna, this is a sign, you know, something is telling me that I need to make some change in my life. And so that was my next.

• 21:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  A shot across your bow.

• 21:23Speaker 03

  Yes. And I started devouring books on health and nutrition, started meeting with dieticians, started, cause that's usually when I have a passion for something. I'll throw myself into it. I'll read every book I can and I'll start, and I'll make calls and be like, hey, do you mind meeting? I met Dr. Campbell out of it. Went, went and, uh, met with him and, you know, see, saw what he'd learned. And then from there, I've evolved back. I, so I went vegan for about two and a half months or whatever it was. Uh, I didn't like it, by the way. It wasn't, uh, especially back then, the, the meat, now you have Beyond Meat, which tastes good. Like, but the fake meat products back then were just horrible to me. And so anyways, I incorporate a little bit of meat back into my diet. And so now I eat pretty, eighty percent of the time is vegan. Uh, and twenty percent of the time is, is, is pretty healthy.

• 22:06Speaker 03

  Well, fifteen percent and then five percent of the time is, it's time to go have some chicken wings. And then have pound some beers and, and get after the good life, so.

• 22:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Probably among all sports out there, the, the game that needs the most recovery from its participants would be a single game in the NFL. What is your recovery like after a game?

• 22:29Speaker 03

  Uh, it's, it's brutal. I mean, it's tough. It's, football's tough on your body. Let's make no mistake about it. And people have seen the movies, the Will Smith movies, concussion, the stuff it does to your brain, the stuff it does to your body. It's a tough, it's a gladiator sport. And a lot of people don't like it. Well, not a lot of people. There are people out there that say.

• 22:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They're naysayers.

• 22:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, you shouldn't be playing football. And, and maybe you're right. We shouldn't be doing a lot of stuff. There's dangers. Uh, and we, and I knew that getting into it. And, uh, if I could do it again, I would, I would do it again. Uh, but for me, after a game, your body is, is, especially if you've had a game where you catch a lot of balls and you're getting tackled a lot, uh, you, you're just melting onto the, god. But the, the trick is that I've found over the years, you don't sit with that, that pain. You actually go to the gym. You work out, you get a workout, you flush your system, but you're using a lot of ice. And, and I'm very into like the biohacking now, like, so I'll use like infrared sun.

• 23:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's what I'm wondering.

• 23:20Speaker 03

  I do all this stuff now.

• 23:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Today, there's much more technology brought to bear on the, on the repair and sustenance of your body relative to the old days, ten years ago.

• 23:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Have you tracked this? Uh, watch what, have you visited the locker rooms now? I mean, the, the training rooms to see what, how any of that's changed?

• 23:39Speaker 03

  I, it evolved over the, you know, when I first came in ninety-seven, back in nineteen ninety-seven, it was like that. It was very that old school. Yeah, I mean, put it, on Thursday after practice, which is our hardest practice, full pads, hard, especially back in the day, football's changed. They don't, they've changed a lot of the rules, so it's not as physical.

• 23:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In my day, it was tough.

• 23:55Speaker 03

  Back in the day. It's true, though.

• 23:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You sound like everybody.

• 23:58Speaker 03

  It is a different game. I don't know, it's an astrophysics.

• 24:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In the snow.

• 24:01Speaker 03

  It's a different game nowadays.

• 24:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uphill both ways. Okay, so on, just know what you sound like.

• 24:07Speaker 03

  I know, I'm that guy, but I will be that guy because.

• 24:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You are so that guy.

• 24:10Speaker 03

  But it was so much fun, too, back then. It was more, it was more funner, to use an incorrect word.

• 24:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I love it.

• 24:14Speaker 03

  But, um, you had, uh, on Thursday, you'd come in, they'd have pizzas. After practice for us, that you'd grab a, everybody would grab their own pizza, and they'd give you a six-pack of beer. And this is after your hardest practice on Thursday. Uh, even after the games, they'd give you their two beers on each seat and all that stuff. This is all old school. You know, guys, they had cigarette, uh, dispensers in our lo- in our lockers. That guys back, you couldn't smoke with 97, but you know, back in the 80s, guys would smoke at their locker room, you know, at halftime and stuff like that. Fast forward to now, or back when I was getting out of the game, which has just been five years ago, um, now they got like whirlpools, they got massage therapists, they have dieticians, they have nutrient timing, they have hydration techniques, they have this, these little lasers

• 24:57Speaker 03

  and infrared saunas and all these different things to help you get the best out of you.

• 25:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They have these chips that monitor you on the, on the practice field?

• 25:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, they have the chips for you, monitor your heart rate. Uh, they have concussion protocol where you do this little program at the beginning of the season to see where your baseline is. So if you do take a shot to the head, you have to go take this test on the sideline.

• 25:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What?

• 25:16Speaker 03

  So that's how they get people out of there.

• 25:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  On the spot?

• 25:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, right now, on the spot, on the spot. That's why some guys will leave and they'll be like, "I'm fine, I'm fine." And they are fine. They, they, they feel normal, but then when they take the test on the sideline or whatever, they go back in the locker room and they see their baseline compared to their baseline, they're like, "No, you're done, and give me your helmet." Um, so they're making the game a lot safer, um, which they're trying to. You'll never make it ultimately the safest thing, but it, that's not football then.

• 25:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh, in StarTalk, it's not, there aren't many astrophysicists in the world. In fact, you can do the math. It's actually, literally about one in a million. So, I, I'd like to give my guests a chance to ask me one question that they may have harbored their whole life, that they never had the chance to ask. Now you, I was delighted to have appeared on your, on your podcast, so you, you asked me a thousand million questions on that.

• 26:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  For anyone who wants to see those, go to his podcast.

• 26:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But right now, is there some other question about anything that you, that you've been harboring?

• 26:13Speaker 03

  Well, I asked you on my show a little bit about it, and I'm obsessed with quantum physics and like, like the double slit experiment, how you'll look at, at certain molecules or neurons or whatever you want to call it, and, or protons, right? And, and they'll, you look away and they'll be in a different place. And, um, where do you think that quark or whatever, where does it go? When I look away and it's now in a different place, where did it go?

• 26:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're asking very rational, sensible questions.

• 26:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, uh, nothing wrong with where you're coming from. The problem is, the quantum, alright, quantum physics are rules of the universe that manifest most visibly at the atomic level and the nuclear level. And at that level, you have no life experience, seeing it, thinking about it, knowing about it. What is our life experience? Macroscopic objects. We didn't evolve to understand the quantum because it is not accessible to our senses. What is accessible? If a lion is chasing you, yeah, you're gonna run the other direction.

• 27:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There are fundamental things about your survival that we're good at. But thinking creatively about the quantum is not among them. And so, we have come to learn that the experiment is the reality. Not your perception of reality, the experiment. An experiment says, "The particle does this, that's what the particle does." Period. But how did it get there? You could ask that, but all that matters is the results of that experiment. And you know something? We know how particles behave under the influence of the quantum theory.

• 28:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And that is what has enabled the creation, storage, and retrieval of information in the modern IT era. There is no computing without an understanding and exploitation of the quantum. Do we understand why a particle jumps from one place to another, materializes out? No, but we can predict it. We know exactly what's going on in that experiment. But you wanna ask why? And I don't wanna fault you for that, but I'm gonna tell you... That it's not clear if the why is even the right question to begin with.

• 28:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Just because you can ask a question doesn't mean it's legitimate in the exploration of the universe. Some things, it just is. Now, with looking at something and have it being in another state, that that's not as weird as it sounds. I'll explain. We're in a studio, you're illuminated by these lights. You're a strapping, full-grown adult. These lights are hitting you and bouncing off of you, enabling us to take pictures. There you are. You're still there whether I turn on the lights or not. Let's make you smaller. In fact, let's make you the size of a particle.

• 29:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, how do I know that the particle is there? I gotta turn on the lights. I turn on the lights, the photon hits the particle, knocks it over there. My very act of trying to observe the particle changes the state of the particle. I cannot photograph it unless I shine light on it, and the act of shining light on it changes what it is I had intended to photograph. That is a fundamental reality in quantum physics, and it's why the quantum, so much weirdness manifests at the quantum small level that doesn't manifest at the big level. You're not gonna pop into existence in another room because I turn on the lights?

• 30:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because the energy of that light isn't high enough to do anything with you at all, but it is when it hits a particle. So when people say, "Oh, how is it that if you see something, it does one thing, but if you don't see it, it does something else? Did your consciousness affect it?" Hey, it's got jack shit to do with your consciousness. It just has to do with your ability to detect it with shining some light on it. If there's no light on it, you cannot know what it's doing. That's what's interesting about this. It limits your access to information. So, how does it move then? It feels the energy and it kicks it into another place. The energy of the photon. Oh, just kicks it into another place. Yeah, hold steady. Bing! It's not there anymore.

• 31:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh huh. Yeah, because the energy of the light is commensurate with the energy of what can move the particle. Uh huh. So in a double slit experiment... That'd be like saying, that'd be like saying, alright, I've got a six, seven linebacker, okay, 300 pounds, and in order to photograph you, I have to shine him onto you. So, he says, "Okay, I'm ready to photograph you." Pachum! The linebacker comes, knocks you out into the next room, and I say, "Where is he?" Alright, he's not here anymore because some energy came into the picture, commensurate with what can knock you out of your chair. Okay? That's, but we don't experience that in everyday life. I don't need the six foot seven person to tackle you to photograph you.

• 31:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I can do it with light, and light is not gonna knock you into another state, but it will do it for a particle. That's an important feature of quantum physics. And we try to exploit. There are others, like this particle is sometimes a wave, sometimes a particle. Well, which is it? You're only asking that because your senses can, and your, our brains are not wired, to be comfortable with that ambiguity. Mm-hmm. In fact, whole commercial advertising campaigns are based on this. Is it light or less filling? Maybe it's both. Can you live with that? Apparently not, we have to be one or the other.

• 32:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Alright, so, the particles are sometimes waves, sometimes particles. When it's a wave, where is it? It's wherever the wave is. How big is the wave? It's everywhere. Wait a minute, you're over there and you have a wave. Our waves see, are we in the same place? No, but our waves overlap.

• 32:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Let's make the waves resonate with each other. We are now entangled. Now we move together. Now if I get observed and become a particle, we become disentangled and you immediately drop and become a particle as well. That's quantum entanglement. It's weird stuff. But it's been said at the dawn of quantum physics, no one ever actually understands quantum physics. You only ever grow accustomed to what it is.

• 33:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So don't lose sleep over it.

• 33:27Speaker 03

  Ah, ah, ah. Can I ask you one more question?

• 33:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Alright, real quick, go.

• 33:30Speaker 03

  Real quick. Um, and is the uni- does the universe keep expanding? And as, uh, which is a yes or no? Does that?

• 33:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The universe is expanding and as far as we can tell, it'll never stop.

• 33:43Speaker 03

  It'll never stop. In that realm of possibility, how many Earths are in this expanding universe?

• 33:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, expanding doesn't mean-

• 33:55Speaker 03

  Like the same situation as Earth?

• 33:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're expanding, but that doesn't mean we're, we're adding more material to it. We're, like a city expands, well, people are moving in. And they're moving in, so the border expands. That's not what's going on here. The universe is stretching so that space is increasing between the galaxies. And so, the fact that we're expanding doesn't add more Earths. It's the same number of Earths, we're just farther apart from each other. So we've, we've got experiments to look for Earth-like planets orbiting Sun-like stars. On the possibility that maybe there's something like Earth-like life thriving in such places. So, yeah, we could, we, we,

• 34:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  we've done the experiments and in our small region of our, if our galaxy is this big, we've looked in a region about this size, there's thousands of planets. The catalogs now have 4,000 planets in them.

• 34:52Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 34:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so, we'll catalog those. If we ever get to go interstellar travel, we might rank which ones we visit first. I don't see that happening anytime soon.

• 35:01Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 35:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're kinda stuck here on Earth. We need warp drive. We need that.

• 35:06Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 35:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm waiting for it.

• 35:08Speaker 03

  So is there any possibility of Earths out there?

• 35:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, yeah, sure. Oh, most, we would say to ourselves, why not? We got one here, why not have another one somewhere else?

• 35:16Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 35:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And maybe it doesn't require Earth. Maybe other kinds of life forms thrive in a different kind of planet. So the search for Earths, you might miss other planets that have other kinds of life thriving, watching you and say, "Hey, we're over here." No, I'm looking for like oceans and clouds and this. So part of what it is to explore is to not be too constrained for what it is you're looking for. Because you might miss the thing that you're not looking for. And then therein is probably most discoveries ever made. It's what shows up when you didn't even order it.

• 35:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, that was my interview exclusive with Tony Gonzalez. Fun guy. I love him.

• 36:01Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 36:03Chuck Nice?

  Who knew he was such a great guy?

• 36:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Who knew? And when we come back, we're gonna explore all that came out in that interview with our deep analysis. The Trinity here.

• 36:13Gary O'Reilly?

  Nice.

• 36:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Of our commentary.

• 36:16Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay.

• 36:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  When StarTalk returns.

• 36:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're back. StarTalk. Chuck Nice.

• 36:44Gary O'Reilly?

  That's right.

• 36:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Gary Riley.

• 36:45Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 36:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We just featured my interview with Tony Gonzalez, the Super Bowl, the football great.

• 36:52Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 36:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Spent a bulk of his career with the Kansas City Chiefs.

• 36:57Chuck Nice?

  Maybe he already is.

• 36:58Gary O'Reilly?

  He is.

• 36:59Chuck Nice?

  Is he already is?

• 37:00Gary O'Reilly?

  I mean, there's a guy with 17 years' career and 14 Pro Bowls.

• 37:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 37:06Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 37:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There it is.

• 37:07Chuck Nice?

  That says it all.

• 37:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 37:09Chuck Nice?

  First of all, 17 years in the NFL.

• 37:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And that's amazing. Well, I have a technical question. Yeah. If you're good enough to be in the Pro Bowl. Mm-hmm. But you don't play in the Pro Bowl because your team went to the Super Bowl. Right. Do you still count as a Pro Bowler? Yes. Because the selection was already made. Yeah. Even if you didn't play. Even if you didn't play, you're still a Pro Bowler. Okay. Yeah.

• 37:30Gary O'Reilly?

  Have a good job taking that away from people.

• 37:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because in baseball, if you don't play in that game, you don't count as an All-Star. Wow. If you got injured, if you voted in, but you happen to get injured, or you don't want to play, but you pretend you're injured, it doesn't, it doesn't count. Last I knew, with the rules, it doesn't count. Wow.

• 37:46Gary O'Reilly?

  Tough house.

• 37:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's tough, yeah. Yeah.

• 37:48Gary O'Reilly?

  So who knew, who knew someone like Tony Gonzalez would be so obsessed with quantum physics?

• 37:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, hee hee. Tell me about it. I think more people than you know.

• 37:58Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 37:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Have a, have a soft geek underbelly. Mmm.

• 38:01Gary O'Reilly?

  Because this is more, this is, I mean, he's become like the poster boy for where geeks and jocks collide.

• 38:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's what I'm saying. All in one person. I'm loving it. I'm loving it. We need more of that. Yeah. What we want to do is normalize what it is to be a geek. And that way, geeks can hide among us without you knowing. Oh, sweet. Like vampires.

• 38:22Gary O'Reilly?

  As vampires?

• 38:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, at Astrophysics, we only come out at night, so. There you go.

• 38:27Gary O'Reilly?

  See, what, what I found really interesting was, he says, yeah, I was just a Neanderthal talent. You just give me the ball, I get me a TD. I never thought about it. I never had to do this. I did the gym, I did this. He said, but I never overanalyzed, and all of a sudden, the failure of certain things made him sit back and take account of himself. That I found really, the growth through pain, the growth through failure.

• 38:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, and we mentioned that. The point is, are the people who succeed, did they always succeed? Or did they overcome failure? And are there, are the greatest of anything in this world? Of expressed talent are is what fed that talent. The fact that at some one or more times in their lives, they had failed.

• 39:13Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 39:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And they regrouped, they took stock. It reminds me of my sister, okay? My sister left college.

• 39:21Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 39:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  She wasn't feeling it, okay? Then she went and hung out, got a job, but hung out, was at the bar with her friends. And she looked around and said, is this my future?

• 39:30Chuck Nice?

  These people are losers. What the? WTF?

• 39:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, you can't tell her that.

• 39:37Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 39:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right? She had to like figure that out. And then it becomes completely internal to you. And so to hear his epiphany.

• 39:44Chuck Nice?

  I can't even imagine your sister that way.

• 39:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 39:47Chuck Nice?

  She's so business.

• 39:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  She's so.

• 39:49Chuck Nice?

  She's so like on point.

• 39:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  On point.

• 39:51Chuck Nice?

  On point.

• 39:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All in.

• 39:52Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 39:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, she's executive with the Ford Motor Company.

• 39:55Chuck Nice?

  Well, now, yes, she is.

• 39:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 39:56Chuck Nice?

  And now I'm taking her drinking.

• 40:00Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, man.

• 40:03Chuck Nice?

  But yeah.

• 40:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So I was just, I was, it reaffirmed what I already knew, but it's good to hear, to hear someone who, who can speak firsthand about how great he became from how low he once was.

• 40:16Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. See comedians, it doesn't work that way. They're, they're, we're too arrogant to know that we failed.

• 40:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh.

• 40:22Chuck Nice?

  Seriously, and comedians go up and bomb, right?

• 40:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And they won't, they won't admit that.

• 40:28Chuck Nice?

  When they come off stage and you look at them like, all right, like, because you never want to say good set. Because you know it wasn't, right? So you just go, all right, you know, and they look at you and they go, yeah, that went well. Yeah.

• 40:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Ooh.

• 40:39Chuck Nice?

  And they're serious. Like, dude, what was happening to you while you were up there? You suck.

• 40:46Gary O'Reilly?

  Denial. So what I, what I found also interesting, when you asked him about what it was like then to what it was like now. And he started to reel off, you know, what they've got the hydro pools. We have laser therapy. We have an infrared sauna and I just went.

• 41:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He's not all that old.

• 41:02Gary O'Reilly?

  No, no, he's not that long retired, but I'm thinking, what's an infrared sauna?

• 41:07Chuck Nice?

  I don't know, but I want one.

• 41:09Gary O'Reilly?

  No, he said it. I want one. Yeah. It's and so what what are they what? How far has it gone now? In terms of what is used for recovery?

• 41:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Cause I don't I don't know what an infrared sauna is, but I can imagine that you can target heat. If as long as it's beams of light.

• 41:24Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 41:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You can target exactly where you need it to go. Otherwise, you're sitting, your whole body is subjected to it.

• 41:29Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 41:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  When in fact, football players or most athletes, when there's pain, it's usually in one place.

• 41:35Chuck Nice?

  Right, like you see the.

• 41:36Gary O'Reilly?

  You've been hit.

• 41:37Chuck Nice?

  The pitcher after the game with the giant ice pack on their elbow.

• 41:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, it's it's yeah. So if it's a whole body sauna, it may feel good. But that's not really the most efficient way to target.

• 41:47Gary O'Reilly?

  Because he was talking about doing ice baths. And I mean, there's there's research now to say ice baths aren't as effective as people once thought they were.

• 41:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But you get to tell someone, yeah, I just sat in a pile of ice.

• 41:59Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 42:00Gary O'Reilly?

  And it's it's that point where you look at a seventeen year career that Tony Gonzalez had and you say, well, how many games did you miss? And he just says, two.

• 42:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:09Chuck Nice?

  That's insane.

• 42:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Something's something's not right there.

• 42:11Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, there are backup quarterbacks who don't last that long.

• 42:14Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 42:15Chuck Nice?

  That's insane.

• 42:16Gary O'Reilly?

  But then you talk.

• 42:17Chuck Nice?

  Then they just carry a clipboard. Like, what did you? Why'd you retire? I got a splinter.

• 42:22Gary O'Reilly?

  God. Repetitive strain injury carrying a clipboard.

• 42:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Carpal tunnel.

• 42:26Chuck Nice?

  Exactly.

• 42:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  On the keyboard.

• 42:28Gary O'Reilly?

  And then you you look at him and you think, well, you're a guy that hit and got hit. That's basically your job on the way to a touchdown.

• 42:35Chuck Nice?

  Mm hmm.

• 42:35Gary O'Reilly?

  And you must have had to go through some serious recovery, but you only missed two games? That's outrageous. I don't I mean, is he is he the prototype? Was he six foot six, something like that, two hundred and fifty pounds? Speed, strength, is is he like the prototype for what you would look at?

• 42:53Chuck Nice?

  Well, yeah.

• 42:53Gary O'Reilly?

  Being a tight end.

• 42:54Chuck Nice?

  No, seriously, he was.

• 42:56Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 42:56Chuck Nice?

  Because I I mean, when you look at Tony Gonzalez in his career, tight ends were always big. But he was the guy that, I mean, after he overcame the, you know, a period where he wasn't catching the ball. He was the guy that was the big, huge tight end that could catch the ball. So he's part of your office. Tight ends, for the most part, were blocked, were just a guy. Blocked, you know, and now they're in many offenses.

• 43:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're saying he, you're saying his excellence in that role helped reshape the expectation of that post.

• 43:25Chuck Nice?

  Oh, without a doubt.

• 43:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh.

• 43:26Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, there's no way you would have a Zach Ertz or, um, what's the guy in Dallas? I forget his name. It's because I'm going senile, who is also one of the greatest tight ends of all time. I hate to say that. Uh, but you know, these guys that, uh, who's on 49ers? What is his name? Kittle or? Yeah, George Kittle. George Kittle. I mean, he's got Travis Kelsey. Travis Kelsey of the Chiefs. These guys are all in the vein of Tony Gonzalez, all of them.

• 43:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 43:51Chuck Nice?

  You know?

• 43:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, so he, so he, he, he created a mold.

• 43:53Chuck Nice?

  Uh, yeah, without a doubt.

• 43:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, okay.

• 43:55Chuck Nice?

  Oh, without a doubt, this guy created a mold.

• 43:57Gary O'Reilly?

  So going through the failure to find himself and his ability to catch a ball, then set the template for all of the greats to follow him in that position. Or you would imagine that's basically the case.

• 44:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You know, I think there's no greater compliment you can get as an athlete.

• 44:11Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 44:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  To, to set a new standard and a new expectation for everyone else who follows.

• 44:16Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, well, without a doubt. I mean, because you have guys that do follow and they do it better. So you look at Gronkowski, like he's definitely one of the greatest tight ends of all time.

• 44:25Gary O'Reilly?

  Didn't help he had Brady behind him then?

• 44:26Chuck Nice?

  Well, I was gonna say, but he did it with a guy that, you know, oh, God, I hate that dude.

• 44:32Gary O'Reilly?

  Say it, say it.

• 44:34Chuck Nice?

  But yeah, he, he did it with the greatest.

• 44:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Get it off your chest.

• 44:36Chuck Nice?

  He did it with the greatest quarterback ever throwing him the ball. So like, you know, how do you, you know, it's weird to get that kind of comparison, you know, uh, so, but, but still, they're, they're still in the mold of, of Tony Gonzalez, which is cool.

• 44:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You know, I had, while sitting down with him, a little bit of me just reflecting on the movie Unbreakable.

• 44:58Chuck Nice?

  Oh, yeah?

• 44:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You know, where if there are superheroes among us, they might just be another person sitting there. And because in the movie Unbreakable, the, um, the Unbreakable character played by Bruce Willis.

• 45:12Chuck Nice?

  Right, right.

• 45:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh, Bruce Willis was in a train wreck.

• 45:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  People died, he walks off without a scratch.

• 45:21Gary O'Reilly?

  Of course.

• 45:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay?

• 45:22Gary O'Reilly?

  Nice.

• 45:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so it's like, why?

• 45:25Gary O'Reilly?

  Who are you?

• 45:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What's... And these are the people who are unbreakable.

• 45:30Gary O'Reilly?

  So are you saying that-

• 45:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You won't, you won't find-

• 45:32Gary O'Reilly?

  That's his superpower?

• 45:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He's unbreakable, Tony Gonzalez?

• 45:35Gary O'Reilly?

  Do you know what he said?

• 45:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If you, if you, if you only miss two games and you're good, that's my point.

• 45:39Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 45:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That, that, that you don't know if you're unbreakable until you're in a total disaster and you walk away scot-free.

• 45:45Gary O'Reilly?

  Do you know what? I'm thinking about the interview now.

• 45:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's why the, the Samuel L. Jackson character wanted to find the unbreakable person. So he set up all these disasters, plane crashes, so that the one person who walks away, that's-

• 46:00Gary O'Reilly?

  That's the person- That's a bit extreme. This is an awful movie.

• 46:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No!

• 46:04Gary O'Reilly?

  These people are crazy. What a psychopath.

• 46:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm gonna bring down a plane to see who survives.

• 46:08Gary O'Reilly?

  It's huge fun.

• 46:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No one? Must have been the wrong plane.

• 46:12Gary O'Reilly?

  But when, what did Gonzalez say?

• 46:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I felt a little bit of that during the interview.

• 46:15Gary O'Reilly?

  I got you. What Gonzalez said, the, the, that dog whistle that makes your ears prick up. "I have a high pain threshold." Now that's a size, speed, strength, focusing your mind. And you know what? You can hit me and it don't hurt that much? Well, that's the guy that's gonna be a tight end that rises.

• 46:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Athletes will say that, though.

• 46:35Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh no, not all of them. So I've seen like, eh, you know, you do the Tom Brady impersonation. Guys, guys, they're hitting me, guys.

• 46:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's my Tom Brady.

• 46:46Gary O'Reilly?

  Guys, guys, what's going on, guys?

• 46:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, plus soccer's notorious for anybody getting clipped by, by an inch.

• 46:52Gary O'Reilly?

  Don't look at me in a bad way.

• 46:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And they, and they fall over and hold their ankle when nobody touched their ankle.

• 46:58Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh yeah.

• 46:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Y'all are the worst. I don't even wanna hear from you.

• 47:01Gary O'Reilly?

  I, I get treat-

• 47:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He said a flop right there when he touched you. She just flopped out like, oh!

• 47:08Gary O'Reilly?

  You know, if you touch me, you get a twisted sock, you need treatment, broken eyelash. That's, that's at least three games out.

• 47:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Broken eyelash.

• 47:16Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah. So, yeah. Then when you look at the guy and he said, well, if, if your body makeup is, you've got this threshold for pain, it's like, whoa. That's outrageous.

• 47:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right.

• 47:26Gary O'Reilly?

  That really, I mean, you're gonna be looking, you're gonna be the Samuel L. Jackson. I wanna be looking for the guys who can suffer pain a lot. Cause they're the guys I want on my team, cause I haven't got to worry about them not being ready for the next game.

• 47:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, but was there, is there ever really a professional football player that, "Coach, I hurt today, I don't wanna play." I don't think that's what, I think they have too much.

• 47:45Gary O'Reilly?

  That's not a pain thing, that's heart. That is their own self.

• 47:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 47:50Gary O'Reilly?

  And I'm not gonna put a name to anyone. I'll just put, that's, that's.

• 47:53Chuck Nice?

  All I know is, I look at guys like Tony Gonzalez and Gronkowski and, you know, uh, all of these, uh, huge men that are playing this game, and I thank God for football, because without this sport, they would be criminals.

• 48:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Unstoppable criminals.

• 48:14Chuck Nice?

  Unstoppable, super criminals, okay? And in a lawless land, these were the guys that were riding around on horses, pillaging villages.

• 48:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They would own the countryside.

• 48:24Chuck Nice?

  Exactly. This was the guys, so I'm just happy that these dudes have.

• 48:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Are we gonna end this program on that note?

• 48:30Chuck Nice?

  Yes!

• 48:32Chuck Nice?

  Football players, thank God for football, don't ever ban this sport, because we're all safer with them on the field.

• 48:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They, I think, are just.

• 48:40Gary O'Reilly?

  It's one point of view.

• 48:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They're just modern day gladiators.

• 48:43Chuck Nice?

  That's what they are.

• 48:44Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 48:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Give us a final thought.

• 48:47Gary O'Reilly?

  Total respect for Tony Gonzalez, to have a career that long and be a pro bowler so many times, and I'm so envious of his ability to have no pain.

• 48:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Plus he had a podcast, and I was invited to be on his podcast.

• 49:01Chuck Nice?

  Oh, did, well, did you do it?

• 49:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, it was great. Yeah, totally.

• 49:04Chuck Nice?

  He's just, he, you know, here's what I say about this guy. He's good looking, he's got personality, he's a super talented athlete, he seems, you know, uh, above average, uh, authentic, um, yeah, I don't like him.

• 49:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And you know what else? During his podcast that I was in?

• 49:22Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 49:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  His mama was sitting in the corner.

• 49:24Chuck Nice?

  Oh, that's so cute.

• 49:28Gary O'Reilly?

  Aw.

• 49:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Now you really hate him.

• 49:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's StarTalk Sports Edition. I want to thank Tony Gonzalez for giving us that interview. Chuck, Gary, we're good. All right. Neil deGrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist, bidding you to keep looking up.