PhysicsBowl: Tackling Science

What is one of the greatest displays of terrestrial physics? Neil deGrasse Tyson and co-hosts Chuck Nice and Gary O’Reilly break down the physics of “The Tush Push” and the science in American football.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Coming up on StarTalk Special Edition, we're going to analyze the physics of that unstoppable play we've seen in the NFL called the tush push. Be there.

• 0:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome to StarTalk, your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now.

• 0:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This is StarTalk Special Edition. Neil deGrasse Tyson here, your personal astrophysicist. And with all special editions, of course, we've got Gary.

• 0:36Gary O'Reilly?

  Hey.

• 0:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Gary O'Reilly.

• 0:37Gary O'Reilly?

  Hey Neil.

• 0:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Former soccer pro.

• 0:38Gary O'Reilly?

  Mm-hmm.

• 0:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Sorry, football pro in the UK.

• 0:41Gary O'Reilly?

  That'll do.

• 0:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Turned announcer. Is that where ex-players go?

• 0:46Gary O'Reilly?

  Sometimes you either go into coaching, which is a vocation and is a 28-hour-a-day job. Or you end up behind a mic and hope you don't talk more gibberish than the other guy.

• 0:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Just a little less gibberish.

• 0:58Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 0:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right, we're always delighted to have you here. Chuck, how you doing, man?

• 1:02Chuck Nice?

  All right, man.

• 1:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right.

• 1:04Chuck Nice?

  Chuck, nice.

• 1:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  How's the comedy thing going?

• 1:06Chuck Nice?

  Um, you know, I gotta tell you, like comedy should, awful.

• 1:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Sorry I asked.

• 1:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Gary, what'd you put together for today?

• 1:16Gary O'Reilly?

  All right, so you recently turned your gaze to illuminate terrestrial physics that exists in plain sight. So it's until you...

• 1:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because terrestrial, that's just Earth.

• 1:27Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, it is.

• 1:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Terra.

• 1:28Gary O'Reilly?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's like the Latin word for Earth.

• 1:30Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, it is.

• 1:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's terra, and we have a word for the moon, too. It's called Luna.

• 1:33Gary O'Reilly?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  A word for the sun, it's called Sol.

• 1:35Gary O'Reilly?

  There you go, so...

• 1:36Chuck Nice?

  Oh, nice.

• 1:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, S-O-L, Chuck.

• 1:37Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 1:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Not so.

• 1:39Chuck Nice?

  Not so.

• 1:42Gary O'Reilly?

  All right.

• 1:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right.

• 1:43Gary O'Reilly?

  And so in doing this sort of illumination of terrestrial physics, you come up, a bit later in the show, you'll get to it, a cosmic comparison. So keep an eye out for that one. And that got me thinking, where have we seen the laws of physics? Plenty of times, the laws of physics used in many ways to gain success, to beat an opponent, to deliver something.

• 2:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Especially in an athletic...

• 2:08Gary O'Reilly?

  Right, exactly. So, but how often do we see the same laws of physics? Used to overcome the previous use of the laws of physics.

• 2:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, a clever invocation perhaps.

• 2:21Gary O'Reilly?

  And to sort of.

• 2:22Chuck Nice?

  Physics battle.

• 2:23Gary O'Reilly?

  Exactly.

• 2:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 2:24Gary O'Reilly?

  So to to to bring this to life for this show, we go back to a StarTalk show you recorded in two thousand and eleven with a couple of the New York Giants.

• 2:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I remember that.

• 2:36Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, and then.

• 2:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They were in this office.

• 2:37Gary O'Reilly?

  They were.

• 2:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There was no room for any, there were three of them. There's no room for anybody else.

• 2:41Gary O'Reilly?

  Big guys.

• 2:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes.

• 2:42Gary O'Reilly?

  And then we throw it forward to an interview you did with NFL Media, uh, last month or so of two thousand and twenty-three for the Tush Push. And you'll see how people were thinking back in two thousand and eleven and how they've thought about using laws of physics here in the present day.

• 3:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Dug these clips up. Okay, all right, all right.

• 3:02Gary O'Reilly?

  And it, so, uh, let's play the first clip.

• 3:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There's no greater display of terrestrial physics than a game of football.

• 3:09Chuck Nice?

  No kidding?

• 3:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:10Chuck Nice?

  Why is that?

• 3:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, I mean, there's kinetic energy, there's potential energy, there's inertia. The only things you learn about in the first few weeks of mechanics in a physics class, there it is in football. And you see things like if a little person runs into a big person.

• 3:27Chuck Nice?

  It happens all the time.

• 3:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Or the big person runs into the little person. These are, these are not equal outcomes here. So you get to learn. And I, I, I always wondered, do the coaches, do the players, are they thinking about physics? Because if they did, you could become a better player and even a better team.

• 3:46Gary O'Reilly?

  So.

• 3:46Chuck Nice?

  So true.

• 3:47Gary O'Reilly?

  Once you, once you open that, that avenue of thought, you don't unsee those things. You find them appear to you time and time again in, in a game of football.

• 3:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The world looks different when you're physics literate.

• 3:59Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 3:59Chuck Nice?

  Mm.

• 4:00Gary O'Reilly?

  And so.

• 4:01Chuck Nice?

  Look at that.

• 4:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's a, that's a bumper sticker.

• 4:02Chuck Nice?

  That is a bumper sticker.

• 4:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 4:04Chuck Nice?

  Right next to my kids in honor student.

• 4:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, my, my favorite bumper sticker is, "My kid beat up your honor student." Never seen that one.

• 4:16Chuck Nice?

  I have seen that, that's pretty cool.

• 4:18Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh dear, bumper sticker envy.

• 4:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right.

• 4:21Gary O'Reilly?

  But now, so if you think like that, but then you put that thought process in a coach's mind, you're gonna start seeing them apply certain aspects of the laws of physics.

• 4:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I don't see why they wouldn't.

• 4:35Gary O'Reilly?

  Right. Now, what if the players themselves have already sought through this process? But then you amplify the whole thing by making them NFL-grade, Super Bowl-winning players? So, this is us going back now to 2011, when you sit down with three of the New York Giants, Jonathan Goff, Chase Blackburn, and Travis Beckham. Now, Chase Blackburn is the owner of two Super Bowl rings.

• 5:03Chuck Nice?

  He didn't win them, he just owns them. He bought them on eBay.

• 5:06Gary O'Reilly?

  No, no, you're like this because they beat the Patriots.

• 5:10Chuck Nice?

  Yes, they did.

• 5:11Gary O'Reilly?

  So that's, that's, that's you gonna be happy. Now, they're both linebackers, Jonathan Goff and Chase Blackburn, and let's listen to how they see tackling.

• 5:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, just remind me, they, in college, each of them majored in like engineering, or math, or physics, right?

• 5:29Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, so one's major in maths, the other is a mechanical engineer.

• 5:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, I'd love it. So they have the geek underbelly that you would not otherwise know, or even think to ask.

• 5:39Chuck Nice?

  I love it.

• 5:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  When you see them on TV, you know, knocking folks out.

• 5:43Gary O'Reilly?

  This is why I wanted to play this clip, so once you realize, then we're gonna pick up something that you've been saying more recently. So play the clip and we'll pick up on the back.

• 5:52Speaker 03

  Do you actually invoke laws of physics you learned in your engineering class to become a better linebacker? Could say yeah, but it's actually something that, that you learn as, as a young football player, and that's the low man wins. Low man wins, I've heard that. Leverage. And so, you wanna come in at what point in the person's body? You want your hat under their hat. Oh, okay. Oh, you call them hats? Yes. How polite.

• 6:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  My cap, yes. Okay, so you want your cap, your helmet under their helmet. What does that then do for you?

• 6:22Speaker 03

  Oh, it gives you better leverage and puts you in a better position. So if you're a smaller guy, it puts you in a better position to control the blocker.

• 6:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so it helps if you can crouch a little lower than others can?

• 6:33Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 6:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So why aren't people just slithering along the ground? To get to their people's ankles, to get as low as humanly possible?

• 6:41Speaker 04

  You need some power.

• 6:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, you start losing power when you get real low. So it's the whatever's the best combination of how low you get, you still get to use your leg strength.

• 6:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, right.

• 6:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  With the speed coming down, you know, obviously meet force to force when you come out.

• 6:53Speaker 04

  That's where I come from. A lot of people think that it's your upper body. It's really your legs and what you have underneath them.

• 6:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Jonathan, tell me about leg power. If you're gonna block someone, the most obvious thing you're using is your upper body. So how do the legs play out?

• 7:05Speaker 03

  Your legs are, your legs and your hips, those are the most important things. But that's where you generate all of your power, all of your momentum, that it gets started, you know, with your legs. You don't need to have phenomenal bench press to be able to deliver those big hits or to create separation between yourself and a blocker. It all starts with your legs. And if you can get good acceleration with your legs going, then everything else comes.

• 7:28Gary O'Reilly?

  So throw it forward now to the Philadelphia Eagles.

• 7:32Chuck Nice?

  Right, which if you're from Philly, is the brotherly shove, not the tush push.

• 7:38Gary O'Reilly?

  All right, so let's get to the next clip because what you've heard those NFL players from the New York Giants discuss.

• 7:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In 2011.

• 7:47Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes, now has new meaning and resonance in the current game. Because they've looked at what they knew and how they got the right, to the point where they even realized, I can be too low and lose the energy and the power I need to execute. Now you get to sit down with Kyle Brandt from NFL Media.

• 8:12Chuck Nice?

  Good Morning Football. We should give him a shout out.

• 8:15Gary O'Reilly?

  All right.

• 8:16Chuck Nice?

  That's the show. It's a great show.

• 8:18Gary O'Reilly?

  So there you are. Shout out done.

• 8:22Gary O'Reilly?

  Cold, cold, too cold?

• 8:23Chuck Nice?

  That was the most dismissive shout out I have ever heard.

• 8:26Gary O'Reilly?

  Too cold?

• 8:27Chuck Nice?

  Good morning football, shout out done.

• 8:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's the most affection a Brit can show, so we gotta accept that one, alright.

• 8:36Gary O'Reilly?

  Alright, so you sit down with Carl from Good Morning Football, and you get into the science of the tush push, or brotherly shove. Now, we're gonna get into why it's called that and not the other. So, play the next clip, and then we'll go from there.

• 8:54Speaker 04

  Well, this is interesting, because we're seeing this in the NFL. The Eagles will come up to the ball. Everybody knows what they're doing. They've spent all week practicing against it, and they can't stop it. You live life where people going around asking you questions about everything in the universe. I'm asking you today, can we figure out a way to stop the Eagles at the goal line?

• 9:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're talking about the tush push?

• 9:16Speaker 04

  Well, it's glad you mentioned that. Let's set the table with this. Do you prefer tush push or brotherly shove?

• 9:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, I don't know how many people outside of Philadelphia know that Philadelphia is the city of brotherly love.

• 9:29Speaker 04

  Interesting.

• 9:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They all know it.

• 9:30Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 9:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And then there's a sort of falloff factor as the distance increases. Go to someone in Utah.

• 9:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Philadelphia is the city of, I don't know, crime? You know, I don't know what they're gonna say.

• 9:41Speaker 04

  Loudmouth fans, cheesesteaks.

• 9:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Cheesesteaks, okay? So, so the brotherly shove, of course, is a more G-rated version of it. But I don't know how widely known or embraced that can be, since it's a very local comment. But the tush push, that is so quaint, and so, and you get it all completely done within two syllables. Brevity matters.

• 10:08Speaker 04

  Is wit.

• 10:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 10:09Speaker 04

  That's what they say.

• 10:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And I'm sorry my letter T was so long. I ran out of time to make it short.

• 10:17Gary O'Reilly?

  All right. Who is that quote?

• 10:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Several people have been credited with that quote.

• 10:23Gary O'Reilly?

  All right. That's a good one. So, what do you feel?

• 10:27Chuck Nice?

  Well, first of all, let me just say that I really appreciate all the love that you guys were showing to Philly. The city of crime and obesity.

• 10:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Excess cheesesteak consumption.

• 10:41Chuck Nice?

  No, but that makes sense. I mean, Philly's not necessarily known as the city of brotherly love in every part of the world. So, Tush Push, you know exactly what you're talking about.

• 10:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Everybody knows what you're talking about.

• 10:53Chuck Nice?

  Everybody knows what that is.

• 10:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh huh. But Gary, you were brilliant in your edits here because I did not remember from 2011 how much of that conversation pressaged. Is that a right word?

• 11:08Chuck Nice?

  I don't even know.

• 11:09Gary O'Reilly?

  It's out there now.

• 11:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Pressaged. Pressaged. So, it's the foundational physics.

• 11:14Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 11:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  To what is going on in a Tush Push. They described it one-on-one. But now, when you band together an entire front line, oh my gosh, you have an unstoppable plow.

• 11:24Chuck Nice?

  Right. And the whole idea behind the Tush Push is when you see them, the Eagles' front line, they're lower than the defense. That's the whole thing. They're just lower than the defense.

• 11:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But that's just the beginning.

• 11:36Chuck Nice?

  That's the beginning.

• 11:37Gary O'Reilly?

  But you have to have the thought process in place. And then, you're looking at it, as you said, in a one-to-one tackle. Then, you're saying, well, in a certain situation, that one-to-one aspect doesn't generally end up in guaranteed success. This now puts it in a situation where it does. So, you're taking the thinking and you're amplifying it in terms of the numbers. Obviously, the distance isn't that great, but you're not needing to go that far. You just need that, as you said, to have the mechanics in place to make it happen.

• 12:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In fact, in most of the replays of Tush Pushes I've seen, where they had to get one yard, two yards, at the end of the play, the ball's five yards farther down.

• 12:20Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 12:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right.

• 12:22Chuck Nice?

  Those were the days.

• 12:24Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh.

• 12:25Chuck Nice?

  Before their-

• 12:25Gary O'Reilly?

  Is anyone else welling up?

• 12:26Chuck Nice?

  Before their epic debacle.

• 12:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, you're talking about the Eagles?

• 12:29Chuck Nice?

  The Eagles.

• 12:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They were like headed for the Super Bowl.

• 12:32Chuck Nice?

  Uh, without, they, yeah, best league and best, best record in football for a minute.

• 12:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  For a minute, yeah.

• 12:38Chuck Nice?

  And then the worst record in football. After.

• 12:53Speaker 05

  I'm Nicholas Costella and I'm a proud supporter of StarTalk on Patreon. This is StarTalk with Neil deGrasse Tyson.

• 13:08Gary O'Reilly?

  So the next clip is fascinating. Uh, you take the tush push and you make a cosmic comparison, which I would say is out of this world, but you wouldn't. So let's listen to the tape, we'll pick it up.

• 13:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Just cause I think I had better-

• 13:21Gary O'Reilly?

  Of course.

• 13:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Better sentence composition.

• 13:24Gary O'Reilly?

  And I headed a soccer ball too many times, in your own.

• 13:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Before they changed the head rules in soccer.

• 13:29Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 13:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, go.

• 13:30Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay, let's play the tape, we'll pick up on the other side.

• 13:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If I can get cosmic on you, just for a minute.

• 13:35Chuck Nice?

  Please do.

• 13:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There's certain phenomena in the universe-

• 13:39Gary O'Reilly?

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That, once they pass a tipping point, there is no stopping.

• 13:45Gary O'Reilly?

  Hmm.

• 13:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay? One of them is, when a star manufactures elements in its core, this is the thermonuclear fusion that builds elements from hydrogen right up to iron. When it gets to iron, it can't generate energy anymore.

• 14:03Gary O'Reilly?

  Hmm.

• 14:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And in that moment, the entire star collapses and nothing can stop it. Okay? And it gets down to a tiny little ball and then it recoils in a titanic explosion we call a supernova. That is an inevitable consequence of that scenario. And you know another one? If it has much more mass than that star, on the collapse, an explosion won't even happen because the gravity wins and it becomes, guess what? A black hole.

• 14:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  For certain amount of mass, a black hole is inevitable, an inevitable consequence of that scenario. This was demonstrated mathematically. A Nobel Prize was given for that demonstration. And what I'm telling you now is when I think of these phenomena in the universe, when they hit a tipping point and they just go, and there's nothing the rest of the universe can say or do about it. When the Eagles line up in the tush-push configuration, two men behind the quarterback, one ready for each butt cheek. Just hang it up. Just say, alright. It's like in baseball, they stop throwing four pitches for the walk. Alright, for the intentional walk, they just go do this and they walk. Just do it. It's faster.

• 15:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's faster. It's faster. So Eagles here, you got the six points. Take it. Take it. Take the six. And just move on.

• 15:28Gary O'Reilly?

  So if we continue this thinking about the mass of a star, and I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say Taylor Swift is probably the biggest star on the planet. During the halftime entertainment, if she has a meltdown, are we gonna get a supernova? Or are we gonna get some other cosmic occurrence?

• 15:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I mean, if the Chiefs are behind at halftime.

• 15:52Gary O'Reilly?

  Maybe.

• 15:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Whatever she's doing, the cameras will catch it, for sure. Yeah, and Fox News will have a supernova.

• 16:05Gary O'Reilly?

  But is it, is it to this point now where if we've evolved how we use the laws of physics to achieve tush-push, and you're now looking at it and going, uh-uh, no stopping this? Are we not looking at it in the right way to overcome this?

• 16:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So here's what I would say. Eagles were, I think, the number was 95%. 95%. Effective. Yes. Other teams, not so much. Right. Okay, this is my analysis of what I've seen. That other teams saw what the Eagles were doing, but didn't understand the physics of it. So they just kind of imitated the look.

• 16:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Of the tush push, but not the physics of it. And as a result, they could not execute it as effectively as the Eagles had.

• 16:58Chuck Nice?

  In the words of Eagles coach Nick Sirianni, if other teams could do it.

• 17:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They would.

• 17:04Chuck Nice?

  They would. That's what he said, like, don't, because they were talking about whether or not they should remove it from football altogether.

• 17:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right.

• 17:11Chuck Nice?

  And he was like, let's be honest, if other teams could do it, they would.

• 17:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Kyle asked me, he said, should the NFL ban, ban the move, the ban the play? And I said, what? Why are they thinking, because it's so effective for one team?

• 17:27Gary O'Reilly?

  Isn't this the nature of sport where if you devise a way to overcome an opponent, someone then has to find the kryptonite for that?

• 17:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And, and, and, and Kyle asked me, do I know of a, of a, of a counter to this move? And my answer was no, I cannot think of one. If it's, if they, if it's properly executed, where all the physics is happening the way intended, I don't see.

• 17:56Chuck Nice?

  So if teams were smart, what they would do is find that five, find video of that 5%. And then study that 5%, study the hell out of it, and then try to mimic whatever that 5% was, whatever those defenses were doing where it didn't work at that point, try to make that the way you handle the tush push.

• 18:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I would say it's not, I, I didn't, haven't seen the 5%, but I would guess that in those 5%, the Eagles didn't do it right.

• 18:21Chuck Nice?

  Execute properly.

• 18:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Correct.

• 18:23Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 18:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Rather than the other team.

• 18:24Chuck Nice?

  Of overcoming the actual mechanics of the, of the.

• 18:29Gary O'Reilly?

  Basically user error.

• 18:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes.

• 18:36Gary O'Reilly?

  I couldn't hear the cogs in Neil's brain turning there, but they were, they definitely were.

• 18:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  An I O error, incompetent operator.

• 18:43Chuck Nice?

  Okay. Ooh. I like that, except when I'm flying.

• 18:50Gary O'Reilly?

  We've tiptoed round the edges a little bit, but now let's sort of, and we've kind of worked out that it's going to be called the tush push, and we've worked out also through listening, it's unstoppable, more or less, but we need to know the science. And I think if you listen carefully, you'll be able to hear Carl Brandt's head exploding right at the end. Play the tape.

• 19:13Speaker 04

  So Neil, this is Super Bowl 57, Eagles Chiefs on the goal line. What's happening here?

• 19:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, so what's happening is the Eagles are about to lay down a moving carpet, a moving carpet for the quarterback. So they're getting his lowest possible, and the Chiefs know that. Look at the guy right there, his helmet's the lowest helmet there, but the Eagles, just pause for a moment, right here, just pause, the Eagles have the advantage because they're hiking, and no one on the Chiefs can move until after the Eagles move. And so the Eagles get like a quarter second head start in momentum transfer. Okay? So the Eagles are already in motion, and look how low the helmets are. They're ready to lay down a carpet.

• 20:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That entire front line is attached to earth, and they're pressing against earth the entire time, even though they're flattened, even because there's other big players on top of them, you can, take a look, watch what happens. Okay? So just watch the Eagles' legs, they are constantly moving. And you see turf getting kicked up, okay? They are using earth as a launch point for their movement. Not a launch point, because that implies they would leave, as a traction point for everything they're about to do. In fact, if you run the math on this. Yeah. Every time the Eagle runs this play,

• 20:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  it slightly changes the rotation of the Earth. Tell me more. Tell me more. Are you kidding me? I'm just telling you. Tell me more. Don't leave it at that. They're changing the Earth. One of Newton's laws. Yes. Is for every action is an equal and opposite. Reaction. You cannot just propel yourself forward. Right. Unless something comes out the other side. That's why rockets, there's always rocket exhaust. Yes. Coming out the other side. Yes. Because then the rocket goes this way, rocket, okay, exhaust goes this way, the rocket goes that way. As they are digging into the Earth,

• 21:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Earth is responding to them by having its rotation rate changed because they're bracing themselves against the rotating Earth. We don't think about it that way, but that's exactly what's happening here. That's where they get the traction. We think about it that way now. That just blew my mind.

• 21:39Gary O'Reilly?

  So you went and blew this guy's head off his shoulders, which is fine because that was necessary. He needed to understand what is going on, but if you.

• 21:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But I have to, just to be clear, what I don't think made it into their final edit for NFL.

• 21:52Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 21:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Production is you can calculate how much the rotation of the Earth changes, but you're not gonna measure it. It's too small.

• 22:01Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 22:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Plus, the other team is also pushing against you in the exact opposite direction. So a lot of that momentum gets canceled. But the one that wins, the ones that actually do successfully move forward, they're the ones that have successfully changed Earth's rotation. I don't wanna say in their own favor, but they're the ones with the bigger effect on Earth's rotation than the ones who lost to that encounter at the, at the goal line stand.

• 22:27Gary O'Reilly?

  For me, the, as a former professional athlete, I'm always looking at advantage. Where can I get it? How can I get it? Is it train harder? Is it put more muscle on? Is it cheap? Is it what, how, how am I looking at how this pans out? And you said something interesting. The Eagles have that advantage because they're hiking. Now, for me, anyone, anyone who's defending their end zone from a play like this from a yard out. Can only kind of get to compete if they've got quicker reflexes. Now, is that even possible for that to happen? Because if they go too soon.

• 23:03Chuck Nice?

  For you, that would, the more apt comparison would be, what's a kick where it's just the goalie and the?

• 23:12Gary O'Reilly?

  The penalty kick.

• 23:13Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, so in that circumstance, the goalie is really just have to guess where he's, where the guy's gonna kick.

• 23:22Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, no, the thing is, the goalkeepers in this, in the soccer, in football, our football with the round ball, they will study the penalty takers.

• 23:31Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 23:31Gary O'Reilly?

  They will now look at whether that player is right or left footed.

• 23:35Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 23:35Gary O'Reilly?

  They will know that, they will know that the predisposition for a right footed player is to go to the goalkeeper's right, the kicker's left. They'll have all of this information. But then the tricky stuff starts.

• 23:49Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 23:49Gary O'Reilly?

  Then the tush push isn't so much a tricky play.

• 23:52Chuck Nice?

  No, I'm just talking about this one part of it, which is, and you'll hear defensive players in the NFL talk about this even on regular snap counts, is timing. You try to time their snap. And one of the things that Eagles started doing this year is varying the snap because they realized that other teams were starting to telegraph. So what they would do is they would do their normal count and then they would wait two beats and then snap.

• 24:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Possibly draw them offside.

• 24:27Chuck Nice?

  Possibly draw them and get the penalty and then you don't even need the tush push.

• 24:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If it's for, if it's for a first down.

• 24:32Chuck Nice?

  If it's for a first down.

• 24:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Otherwise, just halfway to the goal line.

• 24:34Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 24:34Gary O'Reilly?

  The other thing is if you're drawing a defensive lineman.

• 24:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Aren't you proud of me for how much football I am?

• 24:38Chuck Nice?

  You, I'm no, I'm like.

• 24:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Just as an astrophysicist.

• 24:43Gary O'Reilly?

  You're just not, it's not just.

• 24:46Gary O'Reilly?

  Not that you needed bigging up. But so if you can draw a lineman forward, you're changing the center of gravity and the weight is in and you so you can't then move as easily. If you can then move it laterally.

• 24:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But so so this little advantage that you're trying to find like with the penalty kick. Half of that's first basis of knowledge of the behavior of that kicker. But also there's a little bit of a mind game going on. In the tush push, that's not a mind game.

• 25:15Gary O'Reilly?

  No.

• 25:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It does not require the mind. But if you're the defenders, like you said, if I can anticipate the hike, then I can move exactly on the hike.

• 25:29Gary O'Reilly?

  Right.

• 25:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And then you don't get that. You don't get that fraction of a second advantage.

• 25:33Gary O'Reilly?

  But that only works if everyone in unison.

• 25:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If everyone does that.

• 25:37Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, and that the chances of that happening are a lot less.

• 25:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Zero, I would say. Yeah. That's how much less it is.

• 25:43Gary O'Reilly?

  So we're we're kind of getting to the point now why it works. And.

• 25:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, because earth is you have if you're not attached to the earth.

• 25:51Gary O'Reilly?

  Mm hmm.

• 25:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're just a floating object.

• 25:53Gary O'Reilly?

  I think you all right. The next clip you're going to expand.

• 25:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I get that. Okay.

• 25:57Gary O'Reilly?

  So why it works, um, here's you talking again to Kyle Brandt from NFL media, who has had his head exploded, as we've discussed, and you've pieced him back together again. And you carried on your conversation.

• 26:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Here's why this works.

• 26:12Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 26:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so the urge is to say, because you know, the quarterback is going to go over the over the backs of his players.

• 26:22Gary O'Reilly?

  Sure.

• 26:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And you got one player on each side, ready to push on a butt cheek.

• 26:26Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 26:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, hence the tush push. All right. Here's what's going on. I'm on the opposing team. And you've just laid down people plowing into me. I want to jump over you.

• 26:39Gary O'Reilly?

  Mm hmm.

• 26:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because the quarterback is ready to come over.

• 26:42Gary O'Reilly?

  Mm hmm.

• 26:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So I jump over you and you know what happens if you jump over? You're no longer connected to the earth.

• 26:47Chuck Nice?

  So it's a disadvantage.

• 26:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes. If you're not connected to the earth, you've got nothing to press against.

• 26:52Chuck Nice?

  So these guys try all the time to jump over the top. They should not do that?

• 26:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm saying, watch what happens if you leave seed number 22.

• 26:58Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, one for him.

• 26:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Watch what happens to him. Boom. He's just, he's, he, he jumps thinking that matters. He wasn't connected to the earth, so the biggest force he can apply is his body weight. But if you're connected to the earth, these guys can bench press whatever, deadlift, okay? When you're bench pressing and deadlifting, you're attached to the earth when you're doing this, okay? So if someone is floating over the top, you can just swat them out of the way if you're connected to the earth. Let's look at 22 again. He thinks he's got this. Boom, boom. Look at that.

• 27:31Chuck Nice?

  He gets blasted.

• 27:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It gets blasted back. He's completely ineffective. Because all of these guys can easily just push him when he is airborne.

• 27:41Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, that's, that's the funniest thing when you look at this play. And that's so great is when the guys try to go up over the top. They end up crowd surfing.

• 27:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They're just sort of floating there.

• 27:54Chuck Nice?

  They're just floating there and they're getting pushed back and just laying on top of other guys.

• 27:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They got nothing.

• 27:59Chuck Nice?

  Oh, it's great.

• 28:00Gary O'Reilly?

  But you've got these extremely powerful and explosive athletes. But as soon as they lose the connection to earth.

• 28:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All they have is their body weight.

• 28:08Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 28:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And, and the body weight of any football player is push-a, push-awayable by the strength of any other football player.

• 28:16Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 28:17Gary O'Reilly?

  It's, it's, it's not something.

• 28:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's basically a bench press, right? So if I see you coming over, you're 250 pounds and I'm attached to the earth, I just press you out of the way and there's nothing you can do about it.

• 28:29Gary O'Reilly?

  All I need to do if you're airborne is just deflect you.

• 28:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That as well.

• 28:32Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 28:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Provided you're attached to the earth.

• 28:34Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 28:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Deflection is easier than completely stopping their momentum.

• 28:37Chuck Nice?

  Exactly. So.

• 28:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so the quarterback has two players pushing him.

• 28:42Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 28:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If they can each bench press 300 pounds.

• 28:45Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 28:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's 600 pounds of force directed and you're airborne on the other side. You ain't got nothing. What's this? He could squat? What is it?

• 28:51Chuck Nice?

  600 pounds is what they say he can squat.

• 28:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay. So my boy's got some, some quads on him.

• 28:56Chuck Nice?

  He's got some quads on him.

• 28:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 28:58Chuck Nice?

  So when they first start pushing and they're all connected to the ground.

• 29:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All three of them.

• 29:01Chuck Nice?

  All three of them.

• 29:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Each butt cheek pusher plus the quarterback. You've got some good force there.

• 29:06Chuck Nice?

  That's a lot of force.

• 29:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But at some point, he's got to leave the ground.

• 29:08Chuck Nice?

  He's got to leave the ground.

• 29:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And then none of that matters.

• 29:11Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 29:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And all that matters is how much can the other two guys?

• 29:13Chuck Nice?

  Exactly.

• 29:15Gary O'Reilly?

  At that moment, he's crowd surfing.

• 29:16Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 29:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, but, but, but he's.

• 29:18Chuck Nice?

  But crowd surfing with somebody behind him pushing.

• 29:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 29:21Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 29:36Gary O'Reilly?

  So this, for those listeners who are familiar with the sport of rugby, is straight out of rugby playbook. So you have a scrum and you have a maul and a ruck and they will drive.

• 29:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Speak English, please.

• 29:49Gary O'Reilly?

  That is the technology of rugby.

• 29:51Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 29:52Gary O'Reilly?

  I make, it's not word salad.

• 29:53Chuck Nice?

  That is why nobody plays rugby.

• 29:55Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh.

• 29:58Gary O'Reilly?

  They're, they're every bit as big as the football guys.

• 30:00Chuck Nice?

  Nobody wants to be in a scrum, nobody wants to get mauled, and nobody wants a ruck.

• 30:05Gary O'Reilly?

  And it all has.

• 30:06Chuck Nice?

  Whatever a ruck is.

• 30:08Gary O'Reilly?

  So what they do is they push the very same way, connected to the ground, and they move the ball along, but with feet. They just sort of just tap it, tap it, tap it. And they can accrue distance by doing that. I mean, not talking a 30, 40 yard.

• 30:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So it's a human plow?

• 30:22Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, it's a human plow until the ball pops out of it for some reason.

• 30:25Gary O'Reilly?

  And.

• 30:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Which I never understood.

• 30:26Chuck Nice?

  I never understood that either.

• 30:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And the ball pops out and they're all still there.

• 30:28Chuck Nice?

  And they're all still in the, in the, in the huddle, crowd, scrum, whatever.

• 30:32Gary O'Reilly?

  So, because the ball comes out of the scrum to the back.

• 30:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, what? Some magic force pulls it out of the scrum?

• 30:37Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, how does the ball get out of the scrum? Does somebody hike it out of the scrum like, like football?

• 30:41Gary O'Reilly?

  No, they use the force.

• 30:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Not A-force, V-force.

• 30:46Gary O'Reilly?

  V-force. This is not the ball you're looking for.

• 30:51Gary O'Reilly?

  So you have a certain player who reaches in, timely, because they, and grabs it, and then they field it out to the backs, and then the backs are the ones that do the run, yeah.

• 31:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wow.

• 31:02Gary O'Reilly?

  So that's, okay, so.

• 31:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So rugby playbook here.

• 31:05Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, that's, that's where this, this move is, is kinda like originated from. All right, so we now get to our next clip, which is Kyle Brandt, as we said, from the NFL, asking you what you would do if Kansas City Chiefs head coach Andy Reid came knocking on your door, asking for a solution. Take a listen.

• 31:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  How do we stop it? What would be your advice?

• 31:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Get more players on the field?

• 31:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Build a wall? Build a wall, park the bus in front of it? Great. This may be a literal unstoppable force, which have always been used figuratively. Yes. Unstoppable force, immovable object. Okay, this is, this is, this is a moving reference frame. And by the way, while the guys are plowing here, because you see, I mean, it's very impressive. These are big guys, big guys. And you see these, these, these leg muscles just churning through. And the evidence of that was all the turf getting kicked up. Then I'm going fast, right? This is, they're going slow, but the force is huge.

• 32:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so, and look at, they knew, they knew what they, by the choose love. Oh, I love that. Beautiful message. Thank you, Dallas Goddard. After we just smothered.

• 32:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Choose love. Choose love. So, uh, so look at the guy who's lowest here, who's on the, can't you see him right there? Yeah, he's right on the ball. So he knows what's about to happen. So, but again, he doesn't get first jumps. The Eagles get first jumps. So he's really low and is basically not relevant because everyone is on top of him, still plowing forward, and he shows up at the end. You know, he emerges out on the other side. So watch, uh, watch this happen, okay? Here's the snap. There's the snap. See, there, there's a delay. There's like a half second delay. And so now that guy, his head will show up, connected to his body, of course, somewhere, we'll see him. Uh, where is he? And this 54 getting taken out. 54 is out, 22 is out.

• 33:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, and as we plow, we reveal the head. There he is. That's Frank Clark. Oh, my gosh. So he said, well, let me get in there first. And the, the moving carpet. Yes. For the, um. The Eagles. For the Eagles just went right over, his head pops out. But the entire reference frame was in motion. So the reference frame, speaking of physics, reference frame is if you move with something that is in motion, then you can reinterpret everything that's happening around you. Right? So I'll give an example. You ever been on a freeway and there are a couple of cars that are chasing each other and they just whiz right by you? You've seen this happen.

• 33:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's very dangerous, but it's actually less dangerous than it looks. Because all the rest of you are doing 55 miles an hour. They're doing 80 miles an hour. Okay? So, um, as far as they're concerned, you are standing still and they're driving 25 miles an hour around you. Tell that to the police. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's all I'm saying. So, so if you have the moving reference frame of all the traffic, they're actually only going slightly faster than you as though you were standing still as they maneuver in and around the open spots between your cars. Right? It wouldn't work in the court of law. Right. But that's what's actually happening there. So if you have a moving reference frame, I'm referring to the moving, this plow, this moving carpet.

• 34:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right. If the camera just follows it, um, you just see things like the guy who tried to go the other way, his head emerges on the other side. And by the time they unpeel the, the, the pile, the ball's five yards beyond the, the target.

• 34:58Gary O'Reilly?

  See, we can't go around the outside.

• 34:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No.

• 35:00Gary O'Reilly?

  It's too much time.

• 35:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You don't have time.

• 35:01Gary O'Reilly?

  You don't, exactly. Going over the top, you get swatted away.

• 35:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:04Gary O'Reilly?

  It is the irresistible force. It is this thing that you can't stop. So, okay, it's just like any science project has to end in a conclusion.

• 35:15Chuck Nice?

  The conclusion is, we're gonna build a wall. And the Eagles are gonna pay for it.

• 35:23Chuck Nice?

  Philadelphia paying for the wall.

• 35:27Chuck Nice?

  Very important. It's gonna be a big, beautiful, beautiful wall.

• 35:34Gary O'Reilly?

  So, we'll discuss colorways for this wall as and when.

• 35:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's the Trump defense.

• 35:42Gary O'Reilly?

  You look at this and you say, okay, so we can't do anything about it. And you said just earlier on, the NFL were thinking of maybe banning it. But that goes against the spirit of the game.

• 35:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Completely. I think you would be, it would be shortchanging fans who go to see excellence in whatever form it manifests.

• 36:04Chuck Nice?

  Also, it's a lot of fun, if you're not an Eagles fan, to see whether or not your team is going to be the one to stop it.

• 36:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And then that makes the head, that's the headline the next day.

• 36:13Chuck Nice?

  There you go.

• 36:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah. But just because you see excellence, are we going to say, Michael Phelps with his, how many, eight gold medals, we have to ban him from the Olympics because he's winning too much?

• 36:21Chuck Nice?

  He is part dolphin, so, cheater.

• 36:27Gary O'Reilly?

  Mixed mammals. So, no, I just, I look at it and I think, let it happen. Because we, we've had the earlier discussion from the guys who were the New York Giants about how they saw it as an individual. We're now analyzing a whole offensive line, working in unison, applying the laws of physics, but taking...

• 36:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Working organically.

• 36:47Gary O'Reilly?

  Right.

• 36:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Together.

• 36:48Gary O'Reilly?

  But knowing that any defensive line they face is going to go low, they end up going above it and then driving them even lower. So they're on the ground, so therefore they lose a lot of their energy.

• 36:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If you're completely flattened, then you can't push against the earth.

• 37:01Gary O'Reilly?

  Exactly.

• 37:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, you have to, you have to maintain enough distance between your torso and the ground so that you can lift your knees up and press against the earth.

• 37:10Gary O'Reilly?

  And push.

• 37:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And push, right? So there, you can't just go flat.

• 37:14Gary O'Reilly?

  Nope. But yet then you're being driven down. So therefore you're taking away that ability to drive with your legs. It's just the use of the laws of physics in a higher way to negate people using laws of physics to try and stop you.

• 37:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, I just think Chuck has the answer. You just have to build a wall.

• 37:30Chuck Nice?

  There you go.

• 37:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And make the Eagles pay for it.

• 37:32Gary O'Reilly?

  That's basically it then.

• 37:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But I think we've solved this problem.

• 37:36Gary O'Reilly?

  We have. We just need a bricklayer.

• 37:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Tush push, so what's our vote here? Tush push or brotherly shove?

• 37:44Chuck Nice?

  You know, I came in with brotherly shove, but I don't, I'm

• 37:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  As a Philadelphia native.

• 37:48Chuck Nice?

  As a Philadelphia native, but I'm okay with tush push outside of Philly.

• 37:52Gary O'Reilly?

  I'm with Chuck. I think if you're from Philly, you call it whatever you like. If it's from outside of Philly and you want to call it tush push, I think that resonates and is short and sweet, as it were.

• 38:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So, yeah, I'm all, I'm all in. And I, and it's been a while since we had a new play invented, so.

• 38:13Gary O'Reilly?

  It's not a trick, it's not a trick play.

• 38:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And it's not a trick play. And I'm trying to, I, I wondered, what was the first day in baseball someone bunted the ball?

• 38:21Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 38:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That would have been wow.

• 38:22Chuck Nice?

  I'm sure all the other players were like, what did he just do? What do we do? Hey man, go get the ball!

• 38:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, I know. Is it legal? Or hit the bat? Right, like things, and another one that would have been the alley-oop in basketball.

• 38:36Chuck Nice?

  Exactly, yeah.

• 38:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, you throw the ball.

• 38:38Chuck Nice?

  What kind of shot was that? Oh my God, did that other guy just stuff it into the rim?

• 38:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, right. The guy grabbed it before it touched anything.

• 38:45Chuck Nice?

  Before it touched anything.

• 38:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Isn't there a traveling call? No.

• 38:47Chuck Nice?

  It's just a pass.

• 38:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's just a pass. And so, the invention of a new, a new, a new move.

• 38:54Chuck Nice?

  Damn alley-oop, that's what we get for letting these black guys in the game.

• 39:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, are we done here?

• 39:03Chuck Nice?

  We done.

• 39:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We done?

• 39:04Chuck Nice?

  We done.

• 39:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Chuck, we done?

• 39:05Chuck Nice?

  We're all tush pushed out.

• 39:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Tushed out. All right, this has been another installment of StarTalk Special Edition, all about the tush push. Chuck, Gary, always good to have you.

• 39:18Chuck Nice?

  Always.

• 39:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Neil deGrasse Tyson here, as always. Keep looking up.