STR at BAM – Science Is Everywhere (Part 2)

In Part 2, rejoin host Heather Berlin, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Chuck Nice, and theoretical physicist Brain Greene to finish off our segment of StarTalk All-Stars. Then, we cap off our night at BAM with a presentation of Playing with Science featuring Olympic figure skater silver medalist Sasha Cohen. NOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/startalk-at-bam-science-is-everywhere-part-2/ Photo Credit: Elliot Severn

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome to StarTalk. Your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now.

• 0:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Thanks for coming out and giving us your Friday night. So our next segment is going to be StarTalk All-Stars, where I take a backseat and we bring on the host, one of our many talented StarTalk All-Stars, neuroscientist Heather Berlin.

• 0:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And my comedic co-host, the one, the only Chuck Nice.

• 0:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And let me introduce a colleague and a friend, one of the smartest people on earth, theoretical physicist Brian Greene, everybody.

• 1:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, let me ask both of you something, because you both have to think about this. If, since we're talking about the brain predetermining something you do, you're talking about the Big Bang predetermining all future events, then is the fact that we experience time, is that itself an illusion?

• 1:24Heather Berlin?

  I'm going to say, yes, time is an illusion, the way we experience it. Now, I'm not, I'm not talking from the physics perspective, right? But the way humans experience time is an illusion, because it's very easily manipulated. So, for example, in experiments, we can take something called transmagnetic, transcranial magnetic stimulation, which is basically-

• 1:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Transcranial.

• 1:43Heather Berlin?

  Transcranial magnetic stimulation. You, you put a magnet and you can kind of zap different parts of the brain and temporarily knock them out.

• 1:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  People let you do this to them?

• 1:50Heather Berlin?

  We do all sorts of things, Neil. Why do you think I became a neuroscientist?

• 1:54Chuck Nice?

  I gotta be honest, I'm kind of up for it.

• 1:56Heather Berlin?

  It's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun.

• 1:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Just that Heather, you describe it with such glee. Stick a magnet on their head. Okay, and what happens?

• 2:06Heather Berlin?

  One day I'll bring you into the lab.

• 2:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No. I've got a magnet in my head?

• 2:12Heather Berlin?

  So, so we can manipulate. For example, we have you do an action. Like, you can press the button whenever you want. Kind of like that. Let me know when you had the intention to do it, and then we see when you do it. And then we zap you just after you do it.

• 2:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Zap you?

• 2:25Heather Berlin?

  Little, little magnet stimulation. And then what that does...

• 2:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's innocent.

• 2:31Heather Berlin?

  It's harmless.

• 2:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Harmless magnetic stimulation of the brain.

• 2:34Heather Berlin?

  Absolutely harmless. And what it does is we can move back in time your perception of when you had the intention. We can move forward in time your perception of when you did the action. Okay? So that's one way we can manipulate time. You can manipulate time when you're in various different states of consciousness. When you have particular types of brain damage, especially to the prefrontal cortex, your perception of time will speed up. We're starting to understand what parts of the brain are related to time perception. And when they're damaged, your time perception changes. Or when you have certain psychiatric illnesses. Even during the creative state, when you're in that kind of flow state, like when Baba gets into his flow and he's rapping. We, I, I've looked at his brain in the scanner and other rappers...

• 3:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He let you do this?

• 3:14Heather Berlin?

  He, why do you think I married him? Oh, he's my husband, by the way.

• 3:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, did, did he know before he married you? That...

• 3:28Chuck Nice?

  No, she made him marry her.

• 3:33Chuck Nice?

  They were out at dinner. She was like, "Come here, I'm gonna put a magnet on you."

• 3:43Heather Berlin?

  The real question is...

• 3:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Don't try to dodge this back. We know.

• 3:48Heather Berlin?

  The real question is, did he write a rap about neuroscience because he married a neuroscientist? Or did he marry a neuroscientist because he wanted to write a rap about neuroscience? We'll never know.

• 3:58Chuck Nice?

  Now, listen.

• 3:59Heather Berlin?

  I digress.

• 4:00Chuck Nice?

  Now, I'm gonna tell you what I know, and no disrespect to Baba or my wife of 20 years, but he married you because you're hot.

• 4:09Chuck Nice?

  Now, that's, that's one thing that every man is predetermined.

• 4:15Heather Berlin?

  He tells me he was more attracted to my brain, but I'll leave it at that.

• 4:18Chuck Nice?

  And I'mma tell you, he's lying.

• 4:26Heather Berlin?

  So, anyway.

• 4:30Heather Berlin?

  As I was saying. I put it in the scanner, yes.

• 4:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You put him in the scanner while he's rapping?

• 4:36Heather Berlin?

  While he's rapping, and we actually found a distinct pattern of brain activation, where he, during the improvised state versus when he's doing a memorized rap, he gets decreased activation of the part of the brain called the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, which has to do with our sense of self and time and place. So when you're in these flow states...

• 4:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There's actually a part of the brain called the dorsolateral prefrontal.

• 4:58Heather Berlin?

  Right, right, right.

• 4:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Could you make up your mind where this thing is in the head?

• 5:03Chuck Nice?

  I'm kinda with you, cuz it's like dorsolateral prefrontal. Right. It's just like, so exactly where is it? It's all around here. It's like all up in here.

• 5:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In this exact spot.

• 5:19Chuck Nice?

  It's right there!

• 5:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, I'm sorry.

• 5:24Heather Berlin?

  There are a lot of parts to the brain that we need to describe in exquisite detail. I won't even ask you about your physics terms that you all use, so... It's turned down, right? And then, so that's why when people are in this flow state, it feels as if it's coming through them from someplace else, cuz they lose their sense of agency. But they also lose their sense of time. And we also know, in people, if you knock out with transcranial magnetic stimulation that part of the brain, it'll affect their perception of time. So, time is a creation of the brain. It's an illusion, just like anything else. And the other interesting fact is that people without any brain damage, just healthy people, actually have a slower subjective sense of time than the actual clock time. So, we're not very accurate at telling clock time. So, we have our own kind of internal pace.

• 6:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  When I was a kid, I did a really geeky thing, just cuz I could. I trained myself to count seconds precisely, and...

• 6:17Chuck Nice?

  Oh.

• 6:20Chuck Nice?

  What are you talking about, Neil? That's not geeky at all.

• 6:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And my personal best, my personal best was I counted 89 seconds when 90 seconds had passed. And I used to do it with stopwatches. I almost got an applause for that. Thank you. One other.

• 6:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so, so I, so, so Brian, I've tried to match real time. Yeah. But she's saying it's like, it's, the brain can be manipulated to think about it.

• 6:53Heather Berlin?

  Well, is there such thing as real time? I don't, I mean, like, I just think it's an illusion that we experience, but is there actual?

• 6:58Speaker 03

  Well, you know, from the standpoint of physics, there is a conception of time because that's what allows change to occur. So when people say, from a physics standpoint, that time is an illusion, I don't really know what they mean. But it is the case that our experience of time, which you say that you can manipulate, which is quite interesting.

• 7:17Chuck Nice?

  With magnets.

• 7:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. You know, our experience of time does not give us insight into the way time actually works. Because once you learn that time for me is not the same as time for you, if we're in motion, or if we're experiencing different gravitational fields, these are measurable differences between how your watch and my watch will tick off time based upon what we're doing and where we are, that's counterintuitive. We've never experienced that. It took a genius of Einstein to come along and reveal it. So I would say that our experience of time gives us a misrepresentation of how time actually behaves, but time is real.

• 7:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But for every one of us, we are prisoners of the present, eternally transitioning from our past to our future.

• 8:03Chuck Nice?

  Jesus.

• 8:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Man.

• 8:04Speaker 03

  That's, that's deep, man.

• 8:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Man.

• 8:08Speaker 03

  We should just end the show right there, man.

• 8:11Chuck Nice?

  You said that, I was like, I guess we out of time.

• 8:16Heather Berlin?

  Well, there's actually, I mean, looking into the future, there might be ways that we can, we can do things now like implant electrodes in the brain, right, and stimulate certain parts directly.

• 8:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The more you talk about this. We can, we can plant electrodes in the brain because the magnet wasn't good enough.

• 8:35Heather Berlin?

  And to boot, we can control it with remote control. This is real stuff. I promise.

• 8:44Heather Berlin?

  Right now.

• 8:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You just, you.

• 8:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  How do we know, Baba, you weren't just offstage controlling Baba? Like this, with a remote control. How do we know?

• 8:55Heather Berlin?

  Why do you think he was so good?

• 9:04Heather Berlin?

  But if we could, and theoretically we could do this in the not-too-distant future, go in and implant electrode and affect your perception of time such that every moment appears to last an eternity.

• 9:19Speaker 03

  Depends on which the moments are, man.

• 9:22Heather Berlin?

  Well, you can fast-forward the ones you don't like. You can keep the really good ones.

• 9:25Speaker 03

  Wait, that was in Black Mirror. I saw that in Black Mirror.

• 9:28Heather Berlin?

  Was it?

• 9:30Heather Berlin?

  I was gonna say, have you been talking to my wife? But the question would be, the question would be, would you want that implant? Would you want that? Because I happen to think that, you know, having me to experience both the good and the bad, but the fact that it's temporal and that there's this limit and that it's our most valuable resource gives life meaning.

• 9:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But suppose you could find the moments in time or the places in the brain where you're most creative and then make that be your biggest, your most sustained experience. Does creativity map into this conversation?

• 10:05Heather Berlin?

  Yes, when you're creating, the parts of your brain that are normally active when they're clicking off time are down-regulated when you're in that creative flow state. So people, time doesn't seem to exist, self doesn't seem to exist. It's a very pleasurable state. People strive to get there.

• 10:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I bet Brian and I could agree on this. When you're cranking out some equation, you, you forego personal hygiene, you don't know that you're hungry, you don't know, because, and you don't know how much time has elapsed.

• 10:33Heather Berlin?

  And you almost feel like...

• 10:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Brian, you agree?

• 10:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:35Heather Berlin?

  Yeah, I call that Sunday.

• 10:39Heather Berlin?

  But you also feel, it feels as if you're tapping into something greater, as if you are outside of something greater than yourself, because your sense of self is turned down. So in those moments, I would argue that we feel eternal, in a sense, because time is not existing. And it is very pleasurable, but do you want to be in that state all the time? Well, if they had control over it. Do they have control over it? If you had control, yeah, you, potentially, yeah. Yeah, if they had control over it.

• 11:01Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, she wasn't very sure about that part, yeah. Do you have control?

• 11:07Chuck Nice?

  All I know is this, I am never coming to your lab, because you're like a real-life version of "Get out."

• 11:17Heather Berlin?

  Lay me down on the table and ju-

• 11:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Now sink it to the floor.

• 11:26Heather Berlin?

  Well, I welcome any of you into my lab at any time.

• 11:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Chuck and I are walking right by.

• 11:31Heather Berlin?

  It's an open-door policy. Come on in. But, um, yeah, so anyway, I would argue that our sense of time is what gives us meaning. And there are some patients who get lesions where they are just literally living in the moment. They cannot see the future and they cannot think of the past. There's someone who has a certain type of brain damage-

• 11:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So the prisoners of the present without vision.

• 11:49Heather Berlin?

  Right, see, because you say we're prisoners of the present. I say we're not prisoners of the present, because we can see into the future and the past. There are true people who, there's a man, he has a certain type of brain damage, where every minute he keeps a diary and he just keeps writing, "I am now just conscious for the very first time, right? Now I'm just conscious for the first time. Now I'm just awake the first time." And it's just each minute, because he has no vision, he can't look in the future and he can't see the past. It's only the now. He's a prisoner-

• 12:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Which magnet made that happen?

• 12:12Heather Berlin?

  No, that was the type of brain damage that we don't- And cannot borrow some money from him.

• 12:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Chuck!

• 12:21Heather Berlin?

  Wait, one interesting thing of that story, though, just to, just to give it meaning, he had damage to his hippocampus, which is involved in memory. But the one thing he did remember-

• 12:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There's an episode of Family Guy called "Big Man on the Hippocampus", by the way.

• 12:33Heather Berlin?

  Really? I've never seen it. Well, the thing that stayed constant-

• 12:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I know because I was in that episode, that's why. Yeah.

• 12:39Heather Berlin?

  You were the big man?

• 12:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It was referenced in it or something.

• 12:41Heather Berlin?

  You were the big man on the hippocampus?

• 12:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, no, no, no.

• 12:43Heather Berlin?

  Oh, no, wasn't you?

• 12:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 12:45Heather Berlin?

  The thing that remained stable, though, is every time his wife would come to visit him, and this was over the course of years, he would recognize her and see her like it's the first time he's seen her in a million years, and say, "Oh, it's so good to see you. I'm so happy to see you," whatever. And that lasted for years and years, and that was the only thing that remained constant. And the other thing was that he was a professional pianist, and whenever he'd get in front of the piano and get into this mode, he could actually just play a whole piece.

• 13:07Chuck Nice?

  Now, was he aware, was he aware that his wife was putting magnets on his piano?

• 13:11Heather Berlin?

  If only. But the one thing is this: we control the electrodes right now. The question is, can you control them yourself? Yeah. That's why I hesitate. We haven't got to that point yet, because you don't want people going home and just Well, call me when you get there. ...zinging themselves, you know, but when we get to that point, then I'll, I'll give you a call.

• 13:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Heather, we're about to lose Brian out of this segment before we go to our, our sports segment.

• 13:34Heather Berlin?

  Forever, she says.

• 13:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Brian, do you have any sort of concluding reflective thoughts?

• 13:40Speaker 03

  Uh, no.

• 13:41Heather Berlin?

  And he freely said that.

• 13:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Brian, I like, was it Einstein or John Wheeler who said of time, "Time is invented to make motion look simple."

• 13:58Speaker 03

  I hear Wheeler said, "Time was invented so that everything doesn't happen at the same moment."

• 14:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh. You can spread it out in that coordinate system.

• 14:09Speaker 03

  And Einstein said that "the distinction between past, present, and future is only an illusion, however persistent." And on that, I'll leave. Thank you very much.

• 14:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Brian. Brian Greene, everybody.

• 14:40Chuck Nice?

  Welcome to Playing with Science. And, uh, Norma, thank you. Thank you.

• 14:47Chuck Nice?

  And for those of you who are uninitiated, Playing with Science is a sports-science mashup, where Neil likes to say where jocks and geeks collide. And I like to say, without any concussions by the geeks. Because, you know, when jocks and geeks collide, only one person suffers in that collision.

• 15:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, one person walks away.

• 15:08Chuck Nice?

  One person walks away, the other one does not. And normally, uh, we do this-

• 15:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  By the way-

• 15:12Chuck Nice?

  Go ahead.

• 15:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In high school, I was a geek-jock.

• 15:16Chuck Nice?

  A geek-jock?

• 15:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 15:17Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 15:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 15:18Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, you were a wrestler.

• 15:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah. So, but I, intellectually, I associated with the geekiverse.

• 15:24Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 15:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But anytime I saw a geek sort of get beaten up or, you know, bullied,

• 15:28Chuck Nice?

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That was my sort of superhero... I would like, "The geeks need me." And I would go, and I'd kick, I would just... You know? So, I, I felt this urge to protect the geekosphere as a high school kid.

• 15:45Heather Berlin?

  What's the superhero name for that?

• 15:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I don't know. I don't know. But it needs one.

• 15:49Heather Berlin?

  Yeah, yeah, I feel like that.

• 15:50Chuck Nice?

  I believe it's the Tysonator.

• 15:55Chuck Nice?

  Well, that's very cool, man.

• 15:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, who do you have?

• 15:57Chuck Nice?

  So, uh, but before we get into our guest, who is, oh, just so, so, so awesome. Actually, I'm gonna use a different word. Who is, uh, such a superb guest.

• 16:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He ta, he said that because anytime I hear him say "awesome", he said, "It would be awesome if you could pass the salt." And I would say, when I grew up, the word "awesome" would apply to curing polio, walking on the moon. And there's a next generation that has no concept of how to use that word.

• 16:27Chuck Nice?

  And I blame the Lego Movie.

• 16:32Chuck Nice?

  You didn't see it.

• 16:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, I didn't see the Lego Movie.

• 16:34Chuck Nice?

  Everything is awesome! Okay.

• 16:41Chuck Nice?

  Okay, let me just say, first of all, I can't tell you how long I've been waiting to do that onstage.

• 16:48Chuck Nice?

  But normally, this show is co-hosted with Gary O'Reilly, who is a former professional soccer player and the co-host of Playing with Science. And he is currently a broadcaster. And he resides in the UK. Unfortunately, his flight was canceled, and so he could not be here.

• 17:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It was snowing in the UK.

• 17:08Chuck Nice?

  It was snowing in the UK. No, it was snowing here. And unfortunately, he could not be here. So we, but he is listening right now. Not right now, but he will be listening to this broadcast. So if we could all give a round of applause to Gary O'Reilly.

• 17:29Chuck Nice?

  And so what we do here is we explore the science of sport. And to help us do that today, we have an incredible guest, who is a former Olympic silver medalist. And she is five-time world champion medalist. Please welcome the incredible Sasha Cohen.

• 18:01Speaker 04

  I'm so excited to join the fun.

• 18:02Chuck Nice?

  All right, so great.

• 18:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, Chuck, what did she get her medals in?

• 18:12Chuck Nice?

  Thank you, Neil.

• 18:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's okay.

• 18:14Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, the truth is that I took it for granted that everybody would know, because you're Sasha Cohen. But she is a f- lose.

• 18:24Chuck Nice?

  Sasha, of course, is a figure skater. And a damn good one.

• 18:31Chuck Nice?

  And not just a figure skater, because you're also an incredible ballerina and gymnast. All of those things, like, rolled in and then strap skates on and do it all.

• 18:43Speaker 04

  Exactly. I started in gymnastics. I wanted to take hip-hop. My mom directed me towards ballet for skating.

• 18:49Chuck Nice?

  That's because she wanted you to have a job.

• 18:52Speaker 04

  Exactly, exactly.

• 18:52Heather Berlin?

  Hey, what are you talking about? What's wrong with hip-hop?

• 18:58Chuck Nice?

  Don't worry, your husband is still my favorite white rapper.

• 19:03Speaker 04

  White science rapper.

• 19:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But go ahead.

• 19:07Speaker 04

  So that was how I got started. I started in gymnastics because I was basically a bundle of energy and I destroyed the house. And they're like, "How can we calm you down?" So I got put into gymnastics for about three hours a day, every day. And when I was five years old, I was doing like hundreds of jumping jacks, push-ups, V-ups. And when I got home, I was a very well behaved child.

• 19:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  A V-up, is that this here?

• 19:30Speaker 04

  Are you gonna show me?

• 19:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, this, is that a V-up?

• 19:32Speaker 04

  Do I gonna show you?

• 19:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No.

• 19:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 19:34Speaker 04

  So you're basically like this, and you're going up like that?

• 19:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, cool. Very cool.

• 19:38Speaker 04

  There you go. That's a V-up.

• 19:40Chuck Nice?

  That's very impressive, I gotta tell you, right?

• 19:45Speaker 04

  Let me see your V-up.

• 19:47Chuck Nice?

  You know what, I'm good.

• 19:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're good, you're good.

• 19:49Speaker 04

  You got it.

• 19:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Do it later, Chuck. Later.

• 19:51Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, we'll do that a little bit.

• 19:52Speaker 04

  It exists in the space-time continuum. Just leave it there.

• 19:56Chuck Nice?

  So, we of course have Heather Berlin here, Dr. Heather Berlin, who is going to break down the neuroscience, because there's a lot of neuroscience that goes into pretty much every athlete, correct?

• 20:08Heather Berlin?

  Yeah.

• 20:08Chuck Nice?

  Like, when you talk about the brain and the discipline and the... They call it muscle memory, but it really isn't muscle memory, right?

• 20:17Heather Berlin?

  It's actually called procedural memory. So, basically, when you're first learning, and you'll probably have had this experience, the moves or whatever, maybe, you have to really focus. And you're using parts of your prefrontal cortex, you need conscious focus. Even learning to tie a shoelace for the first time. And then over time, over repetition and discipline to do it all those many times, it starts to become implicit or unconscious. And it moves into the basal ganglia, which is the sort of subcortical part of the brain. And it becomes this procedural memory, or muscle memory.

• 20:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Which is what we call muscle memory.

• 20:45Heather Berlin?

  Yeah. And it's like riding a bike. And then, once you get into that implicit state, if you become too self-aware of what you're doing, like, "Oh, exactly how should I hit that tennis ball or do that?" It will mess up your flow. So, I imagine that you practice it so much that when you go into a routine, you're almost going on autopilot, right? You want to get to that point at which your body knows what it's doing, and you don't have to think about it, because the thinking messes it up.

• 21:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because Yogi Berra said that baseball is ninety...

• 21:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Ninety percent of the game is half mental.

• 21:17Chuck Nice?

  I love it. So here's a fun little fact.

• 21:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And can we let Sasha speak at some point in this conversation?

• 21:24Chuck Nice?

  Actually, you could...

• 21:24Speaker 04

  I'm just here for show.

• 21:28Speaker 04

  No, it's true, and I think that's where a lot of elite athletes get in trouble. And I've, it's happened to me on, you know, several occasions, is where you train your body, do something over and over and over, but then you have this one moment, and you're like, I can't leave it to chance. And so you get your mind involved, because you also have, you know, days that you, you know, you're only practicing an hour a day once you're at competition, and then you're just thinking about it over and over, and this one moment arrives, and it's very hard to put away, you know, the monkey mind, because it really wants to be there to help you, but it's like too many cooks in the kitchen.

• 21:59Heather Berlin?

  Exactly, and when you turn down that part of the, it's basically the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, that's making you self-aware.

• 22:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:05Heather Berlin?

  And that's the inner critic, and oh my god, what should I do? And then if you can manage to turn that down, and just enter into the flow state and lose yourself, that's when you really perform at your best.

• 22:14Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 22:15Chuck Nice?

  You better watch Heather, she'll tell you to sink it to the ice. So, Neil, you, yesterday, actually, I heard you talking to somebody at another thing we were doing, where you were saying that you skate, or you did something at the ice rink, where you wore figure skates? What didn't you do? What haven't you done?

• 22:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, I spent a time in high school as a rink guard.

• 22:41Speaker 04

  But not with hockey skates?

• 22:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Not with hockey, I wore figure skates.

• 22:45Speaker 04

  Which is very unusual.

• 22:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, the rink guard is like more aggressive with hockey skates, but I had figure skates. Yeah, I had on figure skates.

• 22:54Chuck Nice?

  Now, I'm just trying to figure this out, and maybe you can tell me.

• 22:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because that toe pick can hurt you.

• 22:58Speaker 04

  That's why you had it.

• 23:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah. You ever see figure skates? There's like teeth in the front of figure skates. And so, yeah, and there were some thugs who came on, who were like-

• 23:09Speaker 04

  It was the real deal.

• 23:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Hockey thugs. Who knew figure skating was so tough? There were like, you know, beefy, thuggy guys, and rather than fight them, I just challenged them to a race, from one end of the ice to the other, and everyone parted ways, and they're having hockey skates, so, so they got to like press their feet left and right to go forward.

• 23:30Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 23:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I had on figure skates, I just went up on my toes and just ran. And I got to the end, waiting for them to come. So, so then they shut up after that, but, so I deeply appreciate your craft, and as a- As a figure skater myself.

• 23:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  As a physicist.

• 23:53Speaker 04

  We'll have to do the next episode on the rink. We'll race.

• 23:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 23:57Speaker 04

  We'll race.

• 23:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah. Oh, that.

• 24:00Speaker 04

  Fight, take this to the rink.

• 24:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Meet me outside on the rink with figure skates on in a tutu. Then we'll fight.

• 24:08Chuck Nice?

  Are you aware, are you aware of the physics that, because they call figure skating physics on ice? There's, there's so much to it. Are you aware of the physics when you're skating? Or are you aware of it at all?

• 24:20Speaker 04

  I think you are aware of it, but you don't think of it in terms like of physics. You know, you, the way that you define is like this like hyper body awareness. And you can feel when you take off for a jump, if you don't have enough speed. If you slightly throw your, your shoulder too much and you can feel in the air that you're, you're off kilter and that you're going to go down hard. And you also know that if you're doing a single, a double, a triple or a quad, exactly how much torque you have to put in when you leave the ice. Cause that is what determines like how fast you will rotate and if you'll be able to complete, you know, a certain number of rotations up in the air.

• 24:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So torque is a force that sets something into rotation. And otherwise it's just a force giving acceleration to an object. So you have force that goes in a straight line. And then you have torque, which is a force turning. So, yeah, so there you are. It's a force you are putting between your body, your skate and the ice so that you can rotate.

• 25:15Speaker 04

  To, to launch it, like to, to begin it.

• 25:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:18Speaker 04

  And the same with spinning and that's something, you know, you'll kind of go into a spin slow. And then you'll, you'll glide in and you'll, you'll ride the edge. And then you'll take the right side of your body and you'll like, you'll snap it to begin the spin. And then you'll use your arms and legs to increase your speed or slow it down.

• 25:36Chuck Nice?

  Oh my God. So, all right. So.

• 25:40Chuck Nice?

  I'm learning how to physically skate.

• 25:43Speaker 04

  Physically skate.

• 25:44Chuck Nice?

  Physically skate. I'm learning how to physically skate. You just invent that word. I did. Physically skate. So here's what I would love to do. For those of you who are listening and do not have the benefit of visual, because everybody is here, if you could stand up and just show us the actual, but you have to talk it through because people are listening at home. If you could show us the physicality of what happens when you're doing that motion. And then Neil, if you can break down exactly what's happening from a physical standpoint, I think that would be really cool. I'm making this up as I go along.

• 26:14Chuck Nice?

  Wait, wait. So Chuck.

• 26:15Speaker 04

  Wait, wait, wait, wait.

• 26:17Chuck Nice?

  So we can pretend like we're the Olympic announcers. Sasha Cohen.

• 26:21Speaker 04

  And this is what she's doing.

• 26:22Chuck Nice?

  This is what she's doing. So Sasha Cohen, she's wearing high heels at this moment?

• 26:25Speaker 04

  I am wearing high heels. I've not done it this way before.

• 26:28Chuck Nice?

  So what happened?

• 26:29Speaker 04

  So there's two instances, right? There's a jump and a spin. And I feel like everyone, if anyone's watched any figure skating, is somewhat aware of the difference. One, you leave the ice, and one, you don't. The jump, you leave the ice.

• 26:42Chuck Nice?

  Chuck, you got that? You know what? I'm keeping up.

• 26:45Speaker 04

  We'll start with a jump.

• 26:46Chuck Nice?

  Stay with this, Chuck.

• 26:47Speaker 04

  So for instance, like I will start with a sau cow. And so it's something where you're going to take off backwards and you're going to be gliding on the inside edge of your left foot. And you're going to determine how much speed you want to get going in, right? So I'll be doing crossovers and running and running and going fast.

• 27:05Chuck Nice?

  Building your speed.

• 27:06Speaker 04

  Right. And then people have different entrances. But say like when I, many, many, many years ago, I did a quad sau cow and I wanted to get extra torque. So I would do a turn ahead and then I would set myself here and then I would use the edge, gliding backwards, the right side of my body. And I would dig in with my left, with my left foot into the ice and whip this up. And that's what would initiate the, like, the momentum. And I would leave the ice, push off this toe pick, and then immediately snap the weight over my right side. And based on how much I... Followed through with my right arm and right leg and pushed down with my left would

• 27:50Speaker 04

  determine how fast I would spin and if it would be a single jump, a double jump, a triple jump, or a quad.

• 27:55Heather Berlin?

  Wait, can I ask you a question then? The way you just broke it down was a very logical, conscious, whatever, but when you're actually doing that, you're not thinking all those things, are you? Are you feeling them?

• 28:06Speaker 04

  You feel it.

• 28:07Heather Berlin?

  You feel it, but you're not...

• 28:08Speaker 04

  So I think I'm explaining exactly what I feel.

• 28:10Heather Berlin?

  Right.

• 28:11Speaker 04

  But it's like you're very fine tuned and you know exactly how much speed you need and you know how much speed is too much that you'll lose control, that it could turn out great, but you have to get lucky because basically, speed magnifies anything. It helps you get more height and more torque, but if you are one millimeter off in any direction and you have extra speed, you're gonna go down really hard or your alignment won't be quite right. So people are a little tentative with speed because that can, you know, you can go up in flames. It's like putting leverage on your house. It can work out really well or it just can, you can go bust. Now, finally, something I can relate to. No leverage!

• 28:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, wait, wait. So Sasha, if you, so, so, I get, you gave a brilliant description of how you give yourself rotational inertia, okay?

• 29:03Speaker 04

  For a jump. We haven't even gotten to the spin.

• 29:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But however, you didn't, well, okay, so, to me, in physics, you generally break things apart into components and you put them all together for the one thing. I break this apart. You told me how you gain spin, but you have, if you're gonna do a quad, you have to be airborne long enough to complete the quad before you hit the ground.

• 29:27Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 29:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So...

• 29:29Speaker 04

  That's part of it because you'll notice, if you've watched figure skating this past Olympics, you will see some people barely get off the ice and they can do three turns and some people get this high up and they don't complete it.

• 29:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Two or three feet off the ice.

• 29:42Speaker 04

  So it really is the rotational spin. It's how fast you launch yourself up. Gotcha. And then obviously, it goes into like, what's your body type? Do you have like wide hips? How fast are you spinning? And that's why men rotate faster and generally do a lot more quads than women do. They spin faster, they've got narrower hips, but you know, women are more flexible, so we've got better spiral sequences.

• 30:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  How many women have done quads?

• 30:07Speaker 04

  You know, a couple have done it in practice, and I feel like maybe like one or two have done it in competition.

• 30:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And you've done a quad?

• 30:14Speaker 04

  I have. A long time ago, a long time ago. Thankfully YouTube exists and it will always live there. I hope. I'll be like, wow, I used to do that. Now I just sit.

• 30:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So people must have freaked out. I mean, did the announcer lose his shit?

• 30:38Speaker 04

  I mean, it was an exciting moment because, you know, people can see when you get really close or you double footed or you step out, and when you actually do it and you're kind of, you come down from four turns and you have to have tremendous amount of strength and balance to catch yourself when you come down, get out, and so it's this moment where it's like, oh, is she gonna do it? Is she gonna do it? And you have it and it's very exciting. It was exciting. Watch, you just do it in heels.

• 31:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So there's the launch and the landing that both matter.

• 31:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, so when I train, you know, you'd work on explosive muscles for bounce. And then you would also, I would jump down off of boxes this high in order to kind of like learn how to absorb all that pressure and momentum coming down. And you do that with the skates on? Off ice training, I do it without skates. And then on the ice, with skates. Well, that would make... Thanks, Sasha.

• 31:44Speaker 04

  But then let me get to a spin, because a spin is very different, because you're not launching yourself out. And it's something that goes for much longer. It's not fractions of a second. It's a spin, you know, can be 30 seconds, it can be a minute. And you basically, you'll see most people wind backwards and they're creating this, it's all about torque in the body. And this is why I realize I'm a terrible skier, because it's the opposite.

• 32:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So they're winding the spring?

• 32:09Speaker 04

  You're winding, right? And so my hips are going to the left and my shoulders are going to the right. A lot of abs, a lot of abs.

• 32:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Core work.

• 32:18Speaker 04

  Yes. And then, so then you step in and you ride this outside edge. And then, again, you do the same whip momentum for a jump, except you don't take off and then you... Spin. Generally, if I wasn't in heels, I could do more spins. And then, once you're there, you'll keep this momentum. And then, as I would bring in my arms and my legs, I can just insanely increase the speed of my spin. And likewise, if all of a sudden, I wanted to slow it down, I would just open up. And you would see the rotations just kind of almost stop. And so, in that way, I was aware of physics. But for figure skaters, we would think about it more in terms of like body awareness of where your hips are, what torque you need.

• 33:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Plus, you have to look good doing it.

• 33:03Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 33:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, because you're being judged on...

• 33:05Speaker 04

  And what color you look it in.

• 33:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, right. There are other dimensions of the analysis, of the rank, of the scores.

• 33:12Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 33:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right.

• 33:13Chuck Nice?

  So you actually, yes, can you tell us what is happening when she does that?

• 33:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, the physics, yeah, yeah. So, so if you, I'm gonna take my shoes off.

• 33:24Speaker 04

  I want to see you spin.

• 33:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, stop the spin. Wait a minute, just...

• 33:29Chuck Nice?

  For those of you listening, Neil is taking off his shoes.

• 33:32Speaker 04

  She kept her heels on.

• 33:33Chuck Nice?

  And putting on Sasha's heels.

• 33:36Speaker 04

  Cinderella, doesn't fit. Doesn't fit.

• 33:40Chuck Nice?

  All I can tell you is this, Prince Charming is never coming back.

• 33:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, in physics, here's the deal. So, if you set yourself rotating, alright? So, I'll do that right now, okay? So, so here I am rotating, okay? So, that's at a speed. Wait, don't applaud yet, you don't know what's about to come, okay? So, so...

• 34:09Chuck Nice?

  So, you just spun around.

• 34:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, you can calculate how much angular... So, in physics, you might remember from your physics class, if you had it or you... So... Everything that happens in a straight line, you can think of in a rotation. So, there's a force, the rotational counterpart is torque. There is mass, the rotational counterpart is moment of inertia. There is, um, you also have momentum, and the rotational counterpart is just angular momentum. So here's the thing. Once you start rotating, your angular momentum is constant. Okay? It's constant.

• 34:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, if I start spinning, and you calculate the angular momentum by, okay, here it is. It is the mass of whatever your body is.

• 35:05Chuck Nice?

  Which in this case would be the biggest figure skater ever.

• 35:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Here's the point. So, your hands, your hands have a certain mass. And they're rotating out at this distance. So you have part of your body mass away from your axis of rotation.

• 35:27Chuck Nice?

  Oh.

• 35:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so if you, you can calculate how much angular momentum that is. Now, watch. If I bring any part of my body closer to my axis of rotation, then one of the terms in your angular momentum drops. It, so, so, so what happens is the distance to your, the axis of rotation drops. But your angular momentum stays the same, so something has to increase.

• 35:56Chuck Nice?

  So, ah.

• 35:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay? So, because when you multiply these two numbers, you have to get the same answer every time. Okay? So if I start changing the distance of the mass of my body to my axis, and I make it smaller, I have to spin up. Nice. And so, so there you have, allow me? Yes? Yes, may I? Okay. So I will spin, and then...

• 36:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay. And just like she said, because what she needs, right? Right, isn't it right? So you're spinning, you speed up, but then you can stop it by just putting your mask back out. Slow it down. So here's my proposal to you. Okay? Here we go. Okay. So, I don't know if this is legal. Okay.

• 36:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Here. So, so put your arms out, okay? So you're my skating physics demo in this moment. So you have a certain amount of mass coming out here. All right? So. So wait, for those listening right now, Sasha has her arms. T shape. Spread apart. Spread apart, yes. And in a T formation, and go ahead. Exactly. So there's a certain amount of mass along your arm and in your hands. And you also showed earlier, when you start a spin, you might start with your leg out. Okay? And then when you bring your leg closer in towards your axis of rotation, you start spinning faster. And, okay, so we got this. Oh, I like you have an, this is an infinity on your wrist. Very cool.

• 37:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's an infinity tattoo. That is very, yes, that is an infinity tattoo. It's an infinity tattoo, good. Okay. Sorry, I didn't mean that. Okay. So here's my suggestion. I don't know if it's legal. Next time you do this, I think you can do a quint. Is there such a word? There is such a word. Good, quint. Five turns. Now, how would you do that? I'm gonna say, you get some lead weight to put in your hand.

• 37:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's Tom Brady all over again. Tom Brady, Tom Brady of ice skating. So when you start, when you start spinning with lead weights in your hand, even if you're spinning at the same speed that you once were, you have more mass farther away from your rotation axis. So that as you then bring the more mass in, you will spin faster. And I don't know, people will notice if you're grabbing something, holding on to something. Yeah, yeah, what's going on? As you skate around, as you skate around the rink with two kettlebells in your hand. It's a little obvious. So what you do is. Just get really heavy rings. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. No, you could get a wrist bracelet and lead infuse the wrist bracelet,

• 38:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  and you're just, it's just your jewelry. Meanwhile, I built up huge.

• 38:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So what I'm saying is, if you did that. The same gestures, you will spin faster. And you'll have to land, you have to figure out the landing. But, but, but, once you go-

• 38:54Speaker 04

  I'm gonna throw this back to you.

• 38:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What's that?

• 38:56Speaker 04

  For spinning, this would absolutely work and it would give me more torque and momentum when I spin.

• 39:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes.

• 39:01Speaker 04

  But, I think the extra weight would not allow me to get up as high in the air. And so even if I got extra torque when I pulled in, I would still not be able to rotate as many times.

• 39:11Heather Berlin?

  You need to work on this.

• 39:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so to trade off-

• 39:14Heather Berlin?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 39:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Have to think about that.

• 39:17Speaker 04

  It's a good thing to think about.

• 39:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, think about that. So, so, this is one of the interesting physics problems where there are two variables competing with one another. And you don't know if one is more powerful than the other, or where they meet to get the best combination of both. And those, that's where you get more interesting, complex problems in physics and in life.

• 39:38Heather Berlin?

  I have a, I have a neuroscience problem here that I can-

• 39:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What's that?

• 39:41Heather Berlin?

  Um, you know, why don't you get dizzy when doing all of these?

• 39:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, yeah. What's up with that?

• 39:47Heather Berlin?

  So I have an explanation for that.

• 39:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Cause Chuck, you know Chuck, if we did that, we'd be like, "Bleugh."

• 39:54Speaker 04

  Are you kidding me?

• 39:54Heather Berlin?

  Cause they're going around and around and around.

• 39:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm dizzy right now.

• 39:57Heather Berlin?

  So, you know, there's actually a neuroscientific explanation for that, for that question.

• 40:01Speaker 04

  So it's interesting, for jumping, um, you know, it, it happens in a fraction of a second. And you, you don't get dizzy, it's just very quick. But spinning is something where ballet and skating really diverge. You know, if you're a ballerina, you're spotting, you know, like to the edge of the room. And that's how you're keeping, you know, your, your awareness. And by spotting, you mean you pick a spot? Yeah, you, you pick a spot- You turn your head very quickly back to that spot. And you, like, you turn.

• 40:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That prevents you from getting dizzy?

• 40:27Speaker 04

  For ballet.

• 40:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  For ballet?

• 40:28Speaker 04

  This is what ballerinas do.

• 40:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 40:30Speaker 04

  They always spot. Um, but for, for figure skaters, you're spinning so fast, um, and you're not doing just like kind of one, one, one. You're literally doing, um, I don't know, like 50 turns. Uh, and you, the trick is, you have to stay in the same center. So about like one to two blade lengths. And I don't know, I think it's like something to do with your inner ear, that if you're not traveling, and you're kind of, you're staying in the same spot even though you're spinning, you don't get dizzy. But, from personal experience, when you do a spin, and you do a bad spin, which you'll get a deduction for, and you're traveling, so you kind of start here and I end up off stage.

• 41:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That would be bad.

• 41:08Speaker 04

  You get out of the spin, and it's like a cartoon, where you see the stars, and you're just like, "What? Where am I?" And so that's why they teach you, "Have your center and don't travel." So, explain that inner ear to me in like neuroscience terms.

• 41:20Heather Berlin?

  Yes, I shall. So, your inner ear consists of these three like fluid-filled tubes, right? And each one is at a different orientation, so it's meant to be sensitive to a different orientation. Let's say if your head goes up and like, yes, like this, or no, or side to side. And within those fluid-

• 41:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So these are the three dimensions of space?

• 41:39Heather Berlin?

  Yeah, the three dimensions, and they're represented within your inner ear, in these little canal, these tubes. And within each of these fluid-filled tubes are these little hairs that are like sensing. It's almost like seaweed at the bottom of the ocean. So when you move, it senses, and sends signals to your brain. So if you think about if you're in a chair, let's say spinning, and you're holding a bottle of water, and you're spinning in this swivel chair, and then you stop, the water is gonna keep going, right? Because it built up momentum. And the same thing is happening in your inner ear. So it's telling your brain, "You're still moving." That's why people get dizzy.

• 42:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 42:13Heather Berlin?

  And also there's-

• 42:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, that's why when you stop spinning, you fall over because you can't keep your balance, because your brain didn't figure out that you stopped spinning.

• 42:20Heather Berlin?

  It thinks you're still moving, but then, there's also information, so there's information coming to your brain-

• 42:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Your brain's so stupid.

• 42:25Heather Berlin?

  From-

• 42:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Damn.

• 42:27Heather Berlin?

  But your muscles are telling you stuff as well. There's proprioceptive input, and there's also visual input, right? Giving you information.

• 42:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What kind of input was the muscle input?

• 42:37Heather Berlin?

  Proprioceptive.

• 42:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Pro-

• 42:39Heather Berlin?

  Proprioceptive.

• 42:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Proprioceptive.

• 42:41Heather Berlin?

  Like proprioception? Yeah.

• 42:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, that cleared it up.

• 42:44Speaker 04

  I've heard that word before.

• 42:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, you know. Yeah, it's proprioceptive.

• 42:49Heather Berlin?

  It's your-

• 42:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Like proprioception. (laughing)

• 42:53Chuck Nice?

  We good now?

• 42:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, we good.

• 42:55Speaker 04

  We're gonna move on. You're bringing us up.

• 42:58Heather Berlin?

  It's signals that tell your body's its awareness in space. So your body, your brain is getting that information from your muscles and your joints. The inner ear is telling you you're still moving and your eyes are giving you information. So that's why they often say, and tell me if they say this to you, when you're at it, when you come out of the spin, different than ballerinas who focus each time they make a turn, but you then are told to focus at a specific point because you want to have your eyes telling your brain, counteracting what your inner ear is telling it that it's still moving, that you're not moving any longer. And also what you do, I'm sure, is you practice off ice, just spinning, so that your brain can habituate. So it's not so much that you're spinning in one place versus moving, although the movement is going to cause it to be more confusing because there's moving in different directions. So it'll be less of a movement if you're in one space. But that's not what I think is happening. I think you habituate because you practice, right?

• 43:43Chuck Nice?

  So your brain just becomes acclimated to spin.

• 43:45Heather Berlin?

  Yeah, only so much, though, right? Because it's still a physiologic effect, right?

• 43:49Speaker 04

  And what you'll see figure skaters do is they'll spin very fast and then they'll slow down. And they slow down, they're kind of getting their bearings, you know?

• 43:57Heather Berlin?

  And they're readjusting their brains.

• 43:58Chuck Nice?

  So you're kind of easing yourself out of it.

• 43:59Speaker 04

  Exactly. And then there's like a trick move that you do is you spin really, really, really fast and then you stop. And then you give your, you do it to the music, it's like bam bam. And then you give yourself like a second and then you're like, ah! I'm gonna do my arm! Yeah, you're just like, you know, you love the choreography, like you built in, you know? We have these like these breathers and so and so.

• 44:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, Sasha, is it true that your fastest spin in any performance is the spin you end on? So you don't have to be graceful and balancey after that?

• 44:28Speaker 04

  It's true. People generally do their more strenuous, like wham bam, hit every position. It's like very dramatic at the very end. Also because it takes up a lot of energy and you want to get your jumping passes in earlier. Although you're seeing that change now a lot with the new judging system where you're getting rewarded and getting more points if you jump after the halfway mark. But generally you want to end on a big note. And so people will do combination spins where you hit like six different positions. You're in a camel, you're in a sit spin. You're in a layback and then you're on the other foot and your leg's up, so there's a lot going on.

• 45:03Chuck Nice?

  It's like a fireworks finale.

• 45:04Speaker 04

  It is, exactly. It's a finale. It's a fireworks finale.

• 45:07Chuck Nice?

  It's just like, oh, put them all up there.

• 45:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, that one, too.

• 45:09Chuck Nice?

  Let them have all, yeah. Look at Smallerface, oh.

• 45:12Speaker 04

  Everything you got, throw it at the edge, exactly.

• 45:14Chuck Nice?

  So Heather, let me ask you this, because we are almost out of time. Why is it that, from a neurological standpoint, that that is our first kind of foray into getting high? You see children spin around, spin around, and they're just like, oh, I am, I am messed up, man, like. What, what is happening there?

• 45:37Heather Berlin?

  Well, a lot of what drugs do is they kind of play with your senses, right? So normally, we have input coming in from our senses and, and our brain is organizing in a certain way. But when you kind of mess with your senses and the way the brain is interpreting them, that's also what drugs tend to do. And it feels, it's interesting, because it's a different brain state. You know, and it's not just your inner ear, by the way. Those inner ear, that information goes to that little brain in the back of your brain, the cerebellum, right? It's right in the back of your neck. And what's interesting is that that has two times as many neurons as your entire brain.

• 46:07Chuck Nice?

  Oh.

• 46:08Heather Berlin?

  Right? Two times as many neurons, so...

• 46:10Chuck Nice?

  Twice.

• 46:11Heather Berlin?

  Yeah, twi-

• 46:12Chuck Nice?

  It's two, two.

• 46:17Heather Berlin?

  Twice.

• 46:18Chuck Nice?

  Two times as many morons.

• 46:20Heather Berlin?

  But it's unconscious, okay? And people who have complete damage to the cerebellum, they are still fully conscious and aware. I mean, they might have less coordination, they can't do triple axels and things, but they're fully conscious and aware. So we only need, basically, one-third of our neurons to have conscious awareness. But it's interesting how much goes into that ability to have balance and, but so, but the, I think the reason why it feels good is that we like different sensations. We like to be outside of our normal, even dream states, or creative states, or daydreaming. When we're not in that normal state where the prefrontal cortex is on and everything's working properly, it's, it's fun, it's interesting. That's why we like to go on roller coasters or rides that make us feel weird.

• 47:01Chuck Nice?

  So Sasha, when you're performing, you're in an altered mental state, according to this. Is that...

• 47:06Speaker 04

  Maybe that's why I became a figure skater. It's like, the world is gonna be too much.

• 47:11Chuck Nice?

  The world.

• 47:12Speaker 04

  I need to skate for 20 years.

• 47:14Chuck Nice?

  That's why you drink before competitions.

• 47:19Chuck Nice?

  That was our secret.

• 47:22Chuck Nice?

  That is it for Playing with Science. Please give it up for Dr. Heather Berlin. Olympic medalist Sasha Cohen. The inevitable Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson. I've been your host for Playing with Science. Also, please, give it up for Gary O'Reilly, who is not here. And our catchphrase is this: If you play with fire, you get burned. You play with science, you get learned. Check it out in that house. Bam! Get home safely. Have a good night, everybody. Thank you.