#ICYMI - NBA – Evolution of the Game, with Julius Erving, Rasheed Wallace, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

In case you missed this episode on the Playing with Science channel… Investigate the evolution of the NBA with Gary O’Reilly and Chuck Nice in the first of our two part mini-series featuring NBA greats Julius “Dr. J” Erving, Rasheed Wallace, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and our own Neil deGrasse Tyson.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Gary O'Reilly?

  I'm Gary O'Reilly

• 0:10Chuck Nice?

  And I'm Chuck Nice

• 0:11Gary O'Reilly?

  And this of course is

• 0:12Chuck Nice?

  Playing with science

• 0:14Gary O'Reilly?

  Today we literally have a stellar cast of guests Starting with Julius Irving aka Dr J Accompanied by none other than NBA legend Rasheed Wallace And of course we must thank the good people of Nike and Converse Who allowed unparalleled access to their athletes during the Art of Champions event So we could bring you what is truly a unique show

• 0:39Chuck Nice?

  Yes and rounding out our galaxy of superstars, our supernovas We're going to have Neil deGrasse Tyson and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar The leading all-time scorer of the NBA As they sit down and talk about the indefensible shot, the skyhook

• 0:57Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh yeah, you're not gonna want to miss that This will also be a show where you might find you are handed Not just the keys to success in the NBA playoffs But in life itself Oh yes, stay tuned for that one, you're not gonna miss that And guess what, this is only the first of a two-part mini-series Featuring not just NBA superstars but also the tech On and within your favourite basketball shoes

• 1:23Chuck Nice?

  Yes

• 1:23Gary O'Reilly?

  And I'm sure you've got them

• 1:25Chuck Nice?

  And the cool thing is that so this, we're bringing you this show And it's gonna be a little bit different because we're, this is like our first clip show

• 1:31Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah

• 1:32Chuck Nice?

  Because we

• 1:33Gary O'Reilly?

  We were let out

• 1:34Chuck Nice?

  We were, yeah

• 1:35Gary O'Reilly?

  We were let out of the studio

• 1:35Chuck Nice?

  We were let out of the studio and we went to Nike's Art of the Champion It was an event where they debuted 16 different shoes for the playoffs For the 2018 NBA playoffs

• 1:50Gary O'Reilly?

  For all of our listeners out there who are thinking this show is sponsored by Nike and/or Converse It is not The Art of Champion was an opportunity for us to go and grab some time with NBA legends And of course for Chuck to have an undiluted, unapologetic Philly loving

• 2:10Chuck Nice?

  That's right, so that's why we really did it Forget Nike, we actually did it so I could meet Dr J Because, you know, I mean, aside from the restraining order

• 2:19Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes, of course

• 2:23Gary O'Reilly?

  Apart from meeting those NBA legends, icons, superstars, in the case of Dr. J. I mean, he's in everyone's conversation for one of the best ever.

• 2:32Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 2:33Gary O'Reilly?

  We got to get down into the tech because there's a whole range from old school shoes up into the now. And then with John Garner from Converse, who's one of their global project managers, gives us a little sneak peek into what could well be coming up. But that's show two.

• 2:50Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, that is.

• 2:51Gary O'Reilly?

  Don't get carried away because this show is all about the legends.

• 2:55Chuck Nice?

  But the game has changed so much because of the tech.

• 2:57Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 2:58Chuck Nice?

  Uh, but the cool thing is we got to talk to the people who made the game what it is. And I guess, what are we starting with? A clip from, um, Dr. J?

• 3:06Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, uh, gotta go with the big guy. Julius Irving, Dr. J. It's an undiluted Philly lovin' and we make no apologies. Roll the clip.

• 3:18Chuck Nice?

  Before we begin, let me just say, ladies and gentlemen, um, I'm from Philadelphia. Uh, this man right here is royalty, uh, not just in the city of Philadelphia, not just in the game of basketball, but, uh, as a gentleman among gentlemen, Dr. J is just the cream of the crop. Ladies and gentlemen, Dr. J. Right, appreciate that tribute. Oh, without a doubt, man, without a doubt. Well deserved and well earned. I, I know you're a humble guy, but I still gotta say this. So you are the Michael Jackson of basketball, okay? Michael Jackson. You are the Michael Jackson of basketball. When you listen to music today, I don't care if it's Chris Brown or Bruno Mars or, uh, Justin Timberlake, you hear Michael Jackson. Yeah. When you look at these guys. He was a great influence. He was an influence. That's what's James Brown.

• 4:01Chuck Nice?

  Right, that's right. So when you look at these guys' games today, the young guys that are on the court today, okay, there is no Michael Jordan without Dr. J. There's no LeBron James without Michael Jordan. Do you see your influence on the game, honestly?

• 4:14Speaker 02

  Well, I do, yeah, particularly in a transition game and eighty percent of the game is transition.

• 4:19Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  So guys having the confidence to come in transition and attack the basket. I mean, obviously, I see the whole ABA associated with today's game with the three-point shot being what it is since it was invented over there.

• 4:35Chuck Nice?

  That's right.

• 4:35Speaker 02

  You know, I never ran down the court and then ran to the three-point line.

• 4:39Chuck Nice?

  Ha ha.

• 4:40Speaker 02

  Whatever. It was always trying to, you know, be first to the hoop and getting there before the defense sets up. If not, then, you know, we'd evolve into whatever we were gonna do next, you know, our set offense. But I see it. And when I watch Kawhi Leonard play.

• 4:56Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 4:57Speaker 02

  You know, I see it. Kevin Durant, to a degree, when he's attacking the basket, you know, can never shoot like him. And a handful of guys who just have that creativity.

• 5:09Gary O'Reilly?

  See, what was interesting for me is you go straight to a musical reference and mix it all in with sport. And Dr. J goes, "Yeah."

• 5:20Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 5:21Gary O'Reilly?

  I get it.

• 5:21Chuck Nice?

  I love it.

• 5:22Gary O'Reilly?

  But you see, there was no arrogance.

• 5:23Chuck Nice?

  No.

• 5:24Gary O'Reilly?

  He knew.

• 5:24Chuck Nice?

  It was matter of fact.

• 5:25Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, he knew what he meant to the game and how he's left his footprint.

• 5:31Chuck Nice?

  Absolutely, yeah. And I love the fact that he said Kevin Durant, because a lot of people don't, you know, when they look at Dr. J's game, they immediately think Michael Jordan, you know, and of course, Michael Jordan was influenced by Dr. J. But I love the fact that he said Kevin Durant, the way he attacks the basket. And at the time, Dr. J was without a doubt the most exciting basketball player in the league. I mean, there was nobody who was doing the kind of stuff that he was doing. And then you look at, you know, you look at the Sixers today, which, you know, by the way, of course.

• 6:00Gary O'Reilly?

  You will.

• 6:01Chuck Nice?

  Yes, I will. But you have a young guy by the name of Ben Simmons who kind of moves and has a court awareness and presence like Dr. J. But I have to say that I was completely, I was fanboying out when, uh...

• 6:15Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, why not?

• 6:16Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. No, this is a guy who was, uh, when I was a kid, watching basket, he was the guy.

• 6:22Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 6:23Chuck Nice?

  You know, and then I'm standing here.

• 6:24Gary O'Reilly?

  And he's in your town.

• 6:25Chuck Nice?

  And he's in my town. And he was like the best basketball player ever at the time. And you're standing there and you're like, "Oh, man." I'm standing there. I felt like I was 12, to be honest. You know, I kind of felt like, I'm surprised that my voice wasn't like this. "Oh, my God, I'm talking to the top of the court."

• 6:38Gary O'Reilly?

  You know, they always say, never meet your heroes.

• 6:43Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 6:43Gary O'Reilly?

  But I got a feeling watching you coming away from that interview and going, do you know what? It was good he did.

• 6:49Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 6:49Gary O'Reilly?

  Because he was everything that you wanted him to be and more.

• 6:52Chuck Nice?

  You know, straight up, and you know, you say, don't, they say, don't meet your heroes because a lot of times you'll just be disappointed, you know? Because people are people, but Dr. J is not a person. He is a god. That's right. A basketball god. Okay? All right, enough, enough out of me on that.

• 7:09Gary O'Reilly?

  What I loved, what I loved was said, I never ran down the court and stopped at the three point line.

• 7:14Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 7:15Gary O'Reilly?

  I went all the way. I went all the way to the hoop and that was my thing.

• 7:18Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 7:18Gary O'Reilly?

  And it wasn't a case of, he just wanted to make a point. He just got a real excitement off of thumping that ball through the rim.

• 7:25Chuck Nice?

  Absolutely, man, you know, penetration was his game and improvisation. So those two things together, he, he really changed the game, you know?

• 7:34Gary O'Reilly?

  Well, let's, let's talk to Dr. J again. I mean, you had a follow up question, this time about the three pointer. Let's check it out.

• 7:41Chuck Nice?

  When you look at the way the three pointer has changed the game today, and you said, and you're right, you never ran down and stopped in the ABA and took a three. And I think that penetration led to a lot of improvisation with you. Do you see a greater proliferation of that in the game or a lessening of that?

• 8:01Speaker 02

  Well, I see, I see the guys having to have that as part of their package.

• 8:06Chuck Nice?

  Mm hmm.

• 8:06Speaker 02

  You have to have the ability to get your own shot. Nobody's going to just set you up all day. I mean, well, Philly kind of sets up J.J. Reddick.

• 8:15Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 8:16Speaker 02

  All day, but he still has times where, you know, he gets the ball, he's got to make a move to get his shot off or to continue to play. So, so there's no such thing as, you know, the 100% role player.

• 8:30Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 8:31Speaker 02

  I mean, everybody has to have some skill development and then some sort of a physical and mental toughness to get somebody off you.

• 8:39Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 8:40Gary O'Reilly?

  To get somebody off you. See, what he's, what he's saying there is, is a, is kind of a sportsman's code. You've got to learn to burn your opponent.

• 8:48Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 8:48Gary O'Reilly?

  Right? You, you've got to learn the, whatever move it is to shake that man off. Now, you may shake him off the first time, but he, he's read that.

• 8:56Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 8:57Gary O'Reilly?

  So you come with a, you come with the same package.

• 8:59Chuck Nice?

  So now he's hip to your game.

• 9:00Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, baby.

• 9:00Chuck Nice?

  How's that work in soccer? I mean, in football, well, football, soccer. You're, you're football.

• 9:04Gary O'Reilly?

  The, the, the principles are the same. Because you now, you're now playing this sort of pitcher, batsman, one-on-one. You've got it. It's that, it's that shootout scenario where.

• 9:15Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 9:16Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay, you think you got me? Let's see.

• 9:18Chuck Nice?

  Think again.

• 9:18Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, gone this way, that way. And that's where some players are one-handed, very predictable. And then the other players work on the fact that you think they're one-handed and very predictable. Goodbye.

• 9:29Chuck Nice?

  Right. Yeah. So you know, the funny thing is that, you know, what he talked about sometimes Philly might set up JJ Reddick. Uh, but I say throughout the NBA right now, teams are running plays specifically to get somebody to shoot a three. You know, and I see it all the time. Even guys like James Harden, uh, at Houston, he's, uh, you know, this guy is one of the. I think he's the MVP for this year, but he is definitely one of the most dangerous players in the paint. One of the most dangerous players when it comes to, uh, being in an open court and shaking somebody for penetration. But you'll see them run plays to get them out back to the three-point line. And he'll drain a three with no problem. I mean.

• 10:10Gary O'Reilly?

  I've got.

• 10:11Chuck Nice?

  I love it, by the way.

• 10:12Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah. So the thing is, I'll tell you something interesting. A lot of football coaches are big basketball fans. Because there's replication of, uh, a basketball defense in a tight area. With little bits of movement. And what will happen is they'll try and overload, distort, create a break. They'll set something up for maybe the third man to come in and complete.

• 10:38Chuck Nice?

  Oh, cool.

• 10:39Gary O'Reilly?

  So this, this same thing happens in football as it does on the court. And football coaches are very in tune with elements like that, that they see replicating their game. So it's. It's no surprise to see that sort of thing setting itself up. Just bum bum bum. It might be the fifth pass, it might be the sixth, or it might be the third pass, but it's done very, very tightly and with intent.

• 11:00Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 11:01Gary O'Reilly?

  Definitely.

• 11:01Chuck Nice?

  And you see a lot more. It kind of looks like basketball today, when you look at the the way the three point has changed the game. I think it's changed the game in that um teams look more like the Globetrotters now than ever before. There's a lot of passing going on and you see guys, like the reason why they're moving the ball around so much is because they want somebody to be open and try and shoot a three.

• 11:24Gary O'Reilly?

  It works and then all of a sudden you'll find it becomes pattern recognition. And I will have a room, a darkened room, so was it darkened room, full of analysts.

• 11:33Chuck Nice?

  Mm hmm.

• 11:34Gary O'Reilly?

  Right? And they'll sit there and they'll say, once you see pass one, two, you know where three, four, five is going to go.

• 11:41Chuck Nice?

  Mm hmm.

• 11:41Gary O'Reilly?

  Because all of the pattern recognition they have seen over and over and over again when they analyze opponents. So what happens then is, you know, so you're starting to set yourself up to break that down. And then they'll come away from three points and maybe we'll go back to the Dr. J, I'm taking it to the hoop.

• 11:59Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 11:59Gary O'Reilly?

  And it's it's it's an evolution within the sport, an even a natural progression. You do one thing, we come and adapt.

• 12:05Chuck Nice?

  That's true.

• 12:06Gary O'Reilly?

  We we won't just survive, we'll then eat you.

• 12:09Chuck Nice?

  And what you're saying right there just makes for me makes the game so much more exciting because it brings an unpredictability to the game that, you know, when you're watching as a fan.

• 12:17Gary O'Reilly?

  Hmm.

• 12:17Chuck Nice?

  Uh it it gives you that, what I call that, ow, that that's that's a that's a that's a that's an actual um um technical term that I.

• 12:27Gary O'Reilly?

  I'm not sure I've ever had that.

• 12:28Chuck Nice?

  It's a technical sports term. It's called the ow factor. And that that's what happens when you uh when you watch a play that's so good, you there are no words, all you could do is go, ow.

• 12:39Gary O'Reilly?

  I'm not sure where that sound comes from in my body. I'm not sure I want to know. Anyway, right, let's get back to the NBA icon, shall we? And this time. Yeah, big guy Rasheed Wallace. Another Philly dude. Another Philly dude, can't escape them. Right, let's check this out, see what the big man had to say. Oh, before we do, before we do, to do this interview Chuck had to stand on a wooden block that was two feet tall. Yes, he did.

• 13:04Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, and I don't, I don't think I was taller than him once I did that.

• 13:07Gary O'Reilly?

  Just.

• 13:08Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, maybe just.

• 13:08Gary O'Reilly?

  Just.

• 13:09Chuck Nice?

  We're here with Rasheed Wallace, okay? Uh, if you don't know him, you don't know basketball, that's all there is to it. Uh, one of the most dominating big men in the sport, that's all there is to it, stretch forward.

• 13:20Gary O'Reilly?

  Troublemaker, apparently.

• 13:22Chuck Nice?

  Nah, yeah, well.

• 13:23Gary O'Reilly?

  Some would say. Some would say.

• 13:24Chuck Nice?

  No, that's not, first of all, he's not a troublemaker, he's just from Philly. Am I right?

• 13:29Gary O'Reilly?

  Plain and simple.

• 13:30Chuck Nice?

  There you go, plain and simple. We actually bring sports and science together on our show.

• 13:33Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay.

• 13:34Chuck Nice?

  And, you know, a lot of times, uh, uh, you know, first of all, Gary, Rasheed said something that Kareem said that we asked him about.

• 13:43Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, man, yeah.

• 13:44Chuck Nice?

  Remember about the fact that nobody does the skyhook?

• 13:47Gary O'Reilly?

  No.

• 13:48Chuck Nice?

  Nobody.

• 13:48Gary O'Reilly?

  Most dominant shot ever in basketball, and I know that much.

• 13:51Speaker 03

  Yes, it's definitely the most dominant and unstoppable shot for the last fifty years in basketball.

• 13:57Chuck Nice?

  And you know what he said? It's because it's ugly. That's what Kareem said.

• 14:01Speaker 03

  It's, it's an ugly shot, so you, you don't know what's coming, it's a long swoop, but it's effective, that's the thing, it's effective.

• 14:08Gary O'Reilly?

  See, maybe it's fashionable, maybe three points right now, maybe the skyhook's gonna return and.

• 14:12Speaker 03

  I hope so.

• 14:13Gary O'Reilly?

  Destroy the game again. See, the thing is, he's already touched on that point where, yeah, it might just make its return because of one simple thing. It was unstoppable. Because there's no other seven foot two dudes hanging around a basketball court anymore, are there?

• 14:30Chuck Nice?

  Well, there, there's, there's a guy like Joel Embiid and.

• 14:33Gary O'Reilly?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 14:34Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 14:34Gary O'Reilly?

  There's, there's a lot of bigs.

• 14:35Chuck Nice?

  There's a lot of big, big guys now, yeah.

• 14:37Gary O'Reilly?

  So, I mean, if they think, what is he? Thirty-eight something thousand points Kareem Abdul-Jabbar stuck through the hoop. You're saying to yourself, someone's gonna wanna go for that. Someone is gonna say, that's my aim.

• 14:52Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, well, they're probably gonna need a skyhook if they're gonna get up there.

• 14:54Gary O'Reilly?

  So therefore, you got a guy, Dr. J talked about a whole package. Why can't there be a player that just pops up and goes, not only can I skyhook back and three-point, because Kareem didn't, but does the whole thing? So I'm waiting to see that monster, that's a perfect beast.

• 15:11Chuck Nice?

  You know what, what you're saying makes sense because, oh god, Mariano Rivera, who was like one of the greatest closers for the Yankees, this is the guy that had one pitch. Okay, and guess what, it was so devastating, that's all he needed. And so, who's to say that there won't be a player that's just like, all I do is skyhook. But you can't do anything about it, that's what I do, I skyhook and nothing else, so.

• 15:35Gary O'Reilly?

  All right, simple rule in sport, keep it simple. Right, we are going to take our first break, but something Rasheed Wallace said about Kareem Abdul-Jabbar had us thinking. Our very own Neil deGrasse Tyson sat down with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. And when we get back after the break, they'll be breaking down the physics in the unstoppable skyhook. You're not gonna wanna miss that, are you? Good, see you shortly.

• 16:03Gary O'Reilly?

  Welcome back, I am Gary O'Reilly. And I'm Chuck Nice. And we are playing with science. Yes, before the break, we, listening to an interview with Rasheed Wallace, the NBA superstar legend, probably a future Hall of Famer, no less, and he talked about Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's skyhook. Right, quite simply, we put Neil, our very own astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson, in with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and they broke down the physics behind the unstoppable.

• 16:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  When I look at a basketball game, part of me sees it as a physicist does. So, there's a ball, it's round, there's a hoop, which is bigger than the ball. And there are all manners of shots that come at it from different angles, different trajectories. And your skyhook, your hand at fully extended, it's gotta be like eight or nine feet in the air. I mean, did they measure this?

• 17:00Speaker 05

  When I shot the skyhook, my hand was about... Between ten feet and eleven feet in the air.

• 17:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because you're also jumping.

• 17:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'm also jumping.

• 17:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so now the rim is ten feet up.

• 17:13Speaker 05

  Exactly ten feet.

• 17:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So the ball is basically going down. So the physics of this, of course, is the more the ball can just go down, the greater

• 17:24Speaker 05

  Chance it has.

• 17:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Chance it has for going in.

• 17:26Speaker 05

  Right, so you want to shoot a high arcing shot that drops.

• 17:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That drops.

• 17:32Speaker 05

  You don't want to just get it to crawl over the rim.

• 17:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, if it just crawls over, then the cross-section changes.

• 17:39Speaker 05

  Much smaller.

• 17:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, right, I don't know if people know that, so I can take this circle and angle it, the cross-section to you is smaller now.

• 17:46Speaker 05

  Right, so you want to get your shot should have a high arc and come straight down.

• 17:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Are you thinking about that physics when you were taking that shot? Because you had your physics class.

• 17:57Speaker 05

  I understood what I wanted to do, so I had all the ballistics and everything worked out.

• 18:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What percent of your thirty-eight thousand points were skyhook points, would you guess?

• 18:10Speaker 05

  I'd say three-quarters.

• 18:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Three-quarters?

• 18:12Speaker 05

  Yeah. But, you know, I learned, everything I learned, you know, had to do with learning the mechanics of the shot and shooting a bow and arrow. Because you figure out what the drop is all about, you know, what the arc is all about. And once you got that figured out, you can, you become accurate. You're a marksman at that point.

• 18:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you're a basketball marksman?

• 18:39Speaker 05

  You have to be, well, if you're going to be successful.

• 18:43Speaker 05

  And I led the league in field goal percentage a number of years. I think that was really my success, too, you know. I had a successful shot that they couldn't block. That's what enabled me to endure.

• 18:55Chuck Nice?

  I'm an NBA marksman. Yeah. I'm an archer. Yeah. He's, you can see why. He's the catness of the NBA. Yeah. He would punch me if he heard me say that.

• 19:07Chuck Nice?

  And because he trained with Bruce Lee, it would hurt. Oh, my God, I forgot about that. Now you're thinking that's not a good idea. Yeah, not a good guy to get into a fight, right? A seven-foot-tall black belt. Ninja. Yeah.

• 19:20Gary O'Reilly?

  But he, I mean, the combination of the understanding of the physics and the innate athletic ability plus being seven foot two, that combination is ridiculous. No wonder the endurance.

• 19:34Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 19:35Gary O'Reilly?

  And the fact he's got thirty eight thousand points.

• 19:38Chuck Nice?

  You know, thirty eight thousand points, of which he said that three quarters, three quarters of which came from that skyhook.

• 19:44Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 19:45Chuck Nice?

  That's unbelievable.

• 19:46Gary O'Reilly?

  Do you remember the interview when he said, and Neil asked him, and I thought it was a wonderful question, how many three pointers did you actually hit? And his answer?

• 19:53Chuck Nice?

  One. Yeah. One that he should have, never have attempted, in his estimation, he said he should have.

• 20:02Gary O'Reilly?

  And Neil said to him afterwards, if you'd have missed, what would your teammates have said? Oh, yeah, they'll let me have it.

• 20:08Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, like, what the hell are you doing?

• 20:10Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, you might be Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, but don't be shooting three points.

• 20:12Chuck Nice?

  Exactly. But in today's game, that's, listen.

• 20:15Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 20:16Chuck Nice?

  You've got seven footers that are out at the three point line all the time, shooting the ball, so maybe in today's game, it wouldn't be so, wouldn't be so looked down upon.

• 20:25Gary O'Reilly?

  No, but, I mean, it goes back to Dr. J, and we kind of, all roads lead to Dr. J. You need a player who's a complete package.

• 20:32Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 20:33Gary O'Reilly?

  I need you to be big, I need you to smash it through the hoop, but I need you to pop out on the three point line and drop some for me.

• 20:38Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:39Gary O'Reilly?

  Amazing. All right, let's go on to our next clip. It's that time of the year in the NBA when every bounce, every rebound and point are meaningful. So who better to ask about succeeding in the playoffs than championship winner himself, Rasheed Wallace? Let's check this out. Apart from outscoring another team, is there a secret, is there a secret to success in the playoffs?

• 21:03Speaker 03

  Defense.

• 21:04Gary O'Reilly?

  Defense.

• 21:05Speaker 03

  Simple as?

• 21:06Chuck Nice?

  You sound like an old man, you know that, right? You sound like an old man right now.

• 21:09Gary O'Reilly?

  Don't matter.

• 21:10Chuck Nice?

  Defense wins championships.

• 21:11Speaker 03

  Yes, defense and it's possessions. You gotta, you gotta value the possessions more in the playoffs.

• 21:17Gary O'Reilly?

  See, the thing is, you went there so many times, but you didn't win every time. Did you use the pain? To bounce back, did you use it to slingshot yourself forward?

• 21:27Chuck Nice?

  Oh, definitely.

• 21:28Gary O'Reilly?

  Or did it just hurt too much?

• 21:29Chuck Nice?

  No, no, I mean, it hurt, don't get me wrong, but after that hurt comes that anger, like, man, I don't believe these cats got us out of here. And that fuels you for that next year, for that next season and for the playoffs, because during the regular season, it's like, alright, I can't wait. Oh, I can't wait till we get back in April and May, and then when it comes around, now that you're ready and you remember that time when it was the shot, or you had a turnover or something where you came up on a losing end, you remember that time.

• 21:56Gary O'Reilly?

  What would you prefer to be, playoff favorite or playoff underdog?

• 22:01Chuck Nice?

  Me personally, I'd go with the underdog.

• 22:03Gary O'Reilly?

  Philly again, it's the Philly thing again.

• 22:05Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, it is. Philly thing again, gotta love the underdog.

• 22:08Gary O'Reilly?

  You've got to want to have that attitude, that little bit of grit, but it's interesting, all the teams that get knocked out in the playoffs, when they're taking that bus ride out and away from the stadium, do you think they're thinking, what if we'd have just kept possession at that moment, at that miniscule moment in the whole series of maybe three, four, five, seven games? That's why he says you've got to value the possessions, every single thing, you go through a whole season, regular season, you might give the ball away, okay, this is backwards and forwards, there's so many, there's what, over 200 points on the board by the end of the game.

• 22:42Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 22:43Gary O'Reilly?

  But in the playoffs, you have to protect that ball with your life, it's amazing.

• 22:47Chuck Nice?

  Absolutely, every possession counts, you know, um, no more so than in the playoffs, and I don't know if the team is thinking that when they're leaving the stadium. I know the fans are though, you suck, no, I'm joking.

• 22:58Gary O'Reilly?

  No, but the thing, the thing is.

• 22:59Chuck Nice?

  If all you had, that one play, the target, that one stupid play, I hate you so much. I'm not gonna be able to pay my mortgage now, oh, why did I bet on this game? Oh, I'm sorry, I was just having a flashback.

• 23:12Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay, no more flashbacks, but that's it, it's, it's that, once you go into the playoff scenario and you're conscious of the fact that every possession is vital, you've got a better chance as a unit of coming out the other side on top.

• 23:26Chuck Nice?

  But see, that would screw with my head, man, if I was thinking about every possession, that's, you know, wouldn't that psychologically kind of

• 23:32Gary O'Reilly?

  No.

• 23:33Chuck Nice?

  wear on you as a player?

• 23:35Gary O'Reilly?

  No, no, no, because then you turn it to.

• 23:36Chuck Nice?

  You're thinking about the importance of every single play?

• 23:38Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, I'm not just thinking about the importance of every single play, every time I'm passing, I'm looking to pass to your best hand, your best foot. I'm looking to pass to you in a position where you won't get intercepted by an opponent, so I've got to pass that ball to. The opposite side to where you're being marked.

• 23:56Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 23:57Gary O'Reilly?

  All of those things, they're minute details, but they're the details that get you success. Beyond the other team where they're just trying not and they're new to this system. You do it and you work and that becomes a positive because everybody's thinking the same way. That's why the teams that succeed are managing at that much of a level.

• 24:13Chuck Nice?

  That's a lot of pressure, man.

• 24:15Gary O'Reilly?

  No, it's not. It's something you thrive on. It's something that once everybody gets to think mentally and tune in on. That's where you get success.

• 24:22Chuck Nice?

  So do you guys out there, do you hear how, see, this is the difference between a former professional athlete and a comedian? I'm like, that's a lot of pressure. He's like, no, no, it's not. And I'm like, yes.

• 24:34Gary O'Reilly?

  I sound like that?

• 24:35Chuck Nice?

  Yes, it is. It's not a little bit like that. I'm still working on my Gary. Don't worry. I'm still working on my Gary. I'm gonna get it. I'm not gonna unveil it until it's ready. You know what I mean?

• 24:46Gary O'Reilly?

  I'll end up sounding like the butler from Downton Abbey or something.

• 24:53Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, my word. All right. So we asked one NBA championship winner, but why ask one? When you can ask two. Dr. J, your thoughts on playoff success, please? We spoke to Rasheed Wallace and the pain of getting so close and not succeeding. Did you use it? And then, apart from scoring more points, is there a secret to success in the playoffs?

• 25:18Speaker 02

  I think one for all, all for one, you know, having unity, solidarity. You know, in early years in Philly, I don't think we had that. I think, you know, we had some guys after. Film sessions, you know, they were waking up when the projector got turned off and the lights came on. Whatever. But those guys, you know, never came back and made it back to the finals. And the guys who made it to the finals were the ones who paid attention to detail, who were alert. And who were physically maybe less talented than their earlier teams, you know, but more committed to being champions.

• 25:50Chuck Nice?

  Wow, he kinda went on what you just said, man.

• 25:52Gary O'Reilly?

  There you go.

• 25:53Chuck Nice?

  He's like, it's really about the attention to detail.

• 25:55Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 25:55Chuck Nice?

  You know, to paying attention to the tiny little things.

• 25:58Gary O'Reilly?

  Cause if, if it was that easy, everybody would win.

• 26:01Chuck Nice?

  No, that's not true. You're still a professional sport. See, this is what I'm talking about. This is the mentality. If it was that easy, first of all, it's not that easy.

• 26:09Gary O'Reilly?

  No, exactly. So I'm just saying.

• 26:11Chuck Nice?

  It's not that easy just to play. Like you, you, it's, it's funny because I, I like every professional uh athlete that I've met, you guys all have the same mentality. Like, yo, this is just what we do, but you're unaware of the fact that you're in a like point oh two global percentage of the population.

• 26:33Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay, let me then, let me then find, let me take that to and fine tune it. Imagine you're a good pro, whatever the situation is, basketball, football, baseball, soccer, whatever.

• 26:46Gary O'Reilly?

  But at the top of that particular game.

• 26:49Chuck Nice?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:49Gary O'Reilly?

  There are players that are unbelievable.

• 26:53Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 26:54Gary O'Reilly?

  And that is where you have to keep chasing and you are gonna have to put them out of the game. You're gonna have to take away the game that makes them so good. Or you're gonna have to feed them to make their game benefit you if they're on your team. So you are always operating in a certain way. You, you don't take it for granted, but your awareness of it should be something that's implanted into your thinking at an early age.

• 27:17Chuck Nice?

  Suppose you're mad at that guy?

• 27:19Gary O'Reilly?

  That happens. By the way, do you think all teammates love each other? No, there's some guys punch each other's lights out in the locker room before, during and after games. However, the only thing that has to happen is the logic of you don't win, the team wins.

• 27:36Chuck Nice?

  See.

• 27:37Gary O'Reilly?

  So that comes first. So you have to be, the one thing.

• 27:40Chuck Nice?

  See, I'm mad at you.

• 27:41Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 27:41Chuck Nice?

  You know, I'm not passing you the ball.

• 27:42Gary O'Reilly?

  Exactly, yeah.

• 27:43Chuck Nice?

  That's right. I'm like.

• 27:44Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, that's happened in a game.

• 27:45Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, I'm like, you're gonna have to apologize to me. You know what happened before the game, okay? Now you say you're sorry and maybe I'm passing the ball, alright?

• 27:51Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, no, no, there's, there are games that go on at the highest levels where one player will not pass to another player. On purpose, no matter what the situation, they would rather kick the ball into the crowd, throw it somewhere else, that person is not getting the ball.

• 28:07Chuck Nice?

  Guys, guys, we're not talking to LeBron, okay? Guys, just letting you know, we're not talking to LeBron.

• 28:15Gary O'Reilly?

  See, if you did that with LeBron, LeBron will do one thing, give me the ball.

• 28:18Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 28:19Gary O'Reilly?

  Because there's the mantra, there's the mantra. And I had this discussion with somebody just the other day, winners want the ball. Just, just the other day, LeBron, there's three seconds left on the clock, it's 95 apiece with the Pacers, LeBron just goes, give me the ball. He gets the ball, what happens? Drains it, three points, 98, 95, everybody goes home. And LeBron is jumping up on the umpire's table and he's thumping his chest at the crowd and this is my house.

• 28:49Chuck Nice?

  Nice, yeah.

• 28:50Gary O'Reilly?

  That's what it's about. That's what it's about. When all the tactics, all of the psychology is done and you're level and there's three seconds left, you need your big guy to stand up.

• 29:01Chuck Nice?

  Well, guys, we're still not speaking to LeBron.

• 29:07Gary O'Reilly?

  Someone's gonna have to mediate, it'll be me, won't it? Right, let's take a break. Oh dear, someone get me LeBron's agent. Right, um, right, when we come back, more Rasheed Wallace, more Dr. J, and maybe a loving between LeBron and Chuck, who knows, uh, back shortly.

• 29:28Gary O'Reilly?

  Welcome back, I am Gary O'Reilly.

• 29:30Chuck Nice?

  And I'm Dr. J.

• 29:32Gary O'Reilly?

  And this is Playing With Science.

• 29:35Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, I'm actually Chuck Nice, okay? Sorry.

• 29:38Gary O'Reilly?

  We like you being Dr. J.

• 29:40Chuck Nice?

  So do I.

• 29:40Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, it's cool, it's good to be king. So, right, we, we put Chuck in a situation where he had to stand on a two-foot block of wood so as he could talk to NBA legend Rasheed Wallace. So Chuck was back up there in the rarefied altitude of the bigs.

• 29:59Gary O'Reilly?

  This time Chuck was getting tips on life and not just how to get down.

• 30:03Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. What is the basketball mindset for life? So take you on the court. I like this question. Pull up, pull you out of the court into life. What is the mindset from the game that you see and have to use every day?

• 30:18Speaker 03

  Take care of your body.

• 30:19Chuck Nice?

  Really?

• 30:20Speaker 03

  Take care of your body from the time when you're a young fella. Just think about it. When you're in high school, that's when you really start working out.

• 30:27Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 30:27Speaker 03

  You know, no matter what you're doing, no matter the sport. And you continue that in your collegiate career and you continue that in your pro career. But some people think that, okay, once that athlete retires, then it just stops. Like I don't have to work out no more.

• 30:39Chuck Nice?

  Abits.

• 30:40Speaker 03

  Still gotta work out, you still gotta keep it in shape. And in turn, it lifts you up for, for that day. So if I get up early in the morning and I get a good workout in, well then I'm ready to attack or challenge whatever work options that I have in front of me.

• 30:52Chuck Nice?

  What a, I did not expect that at all.

• 30:54Gary O'Reilly?

  I know, but he gave you, he just opened straight up and went, this is it. This is how I see it. Now, everybody sees it differently, within a certain bandwidth, they're all the same. But that was his, that was his take.

• 31:06Chuck Nice?

  So let me ask you then, what, what did you take from professional soccer into your life? What is a, is there a, I don't know, philosophy, a mantra, a particular everyday train of thought that stays with you on a daily?

• 31:21Gary O'Reilly?

  Stick at it. Keep going, keep working, keep thinking that you've got to do something, keep moving. The game evolves, you have to evolve with it, which means you have to keep working to keep up. The older you get, the more experience you have, you utilize that, bring it back, fold it into what you're doing. You're always growing, you're always trying to step upwards. Because you know, as you get older, your body's gonna start to kinda come backwards and you're gonna have to pick up the slack to go forwards with it.

• 31:49Chuck Nice?

  That's pretty cool, that's pretty cool. Yeah, I mean, I think you see a lot of people say that about. Uh, what's his face? Oh, yeah, Tom Brady.

• 31:57Gary O'Reilly?

  You're back on the Brady thing?

• 31:58Chuck Nice?

  No, I'm just saying, like, you know, I mean, you know, hey, granted, he's the greatest quarterback of all time.

• 32:03Gary O'Reilly?

  For sure, yeah.

• 32:04Chuck Nice?

  I'm not gonna say, you know, but a lot of people are just like, he might play until he's like fifty. Because he's, you know, he knows how to, he knows how to play the game differently as an older player.

• 32:14Gary O'Reilly?

  Well, there's quarterbacks, I mean, as much as I know. You can be the best, most athletic quarterback in the world, but if you've got a defensive line that doesn't protect you.

• 32:24Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 32:25Gary O'Reilly?

  You're not gonna last very long.

• 32:26Chuck Nice?

  No, absolutely. And it only takes like one uh twenty year old defensive lineman.

• 32:32Gary O'Reilly?

  Mm hmm.

• 32:32Chuck Nice?

  Uh, to break through.

• 32:33Gary O'Reilly?

  That wants to make a name for themselves.

• 32:35Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, put you on your back and then it's just like, yeah, maybe I should go home and be with my supermodel wife and like spend all this money. Instead of being out here looking stupid at age forty, whatever. So, I'm just saying, that's my, that's my internal dialogue.

• 32:48Gary O'Reilly?

  I'm sensing jealousy. I'm sensing, this is a little sprinkling of jealousy.

• 32:52Chuck Nice?

  Maybe Tom Brady thinks that way, you know, I'm just saying that maybe I would think that way.

• 32:55Gary O'Reilly?

  No, I think Tom Brady, Tom Brady cannot exist. And we go back to sort of like Dr. J and Rashid, he cannot exist without being unbelievably professional. And bringing every cognitive skill to play because he knows, I mean, he looks in the mirror, he knows he's forty, not twenty something.

• 33:12Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 33:13Gary O'Reilly?

  So he's thinking, right, how do I keep myself in the best position to protect me? He's got every spider sense going.

• 33:21Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 33:21Gary O'Reilly?

  Uh, as well as one of the best defensive lines in front of, you know, so he's just got to have all of that going in the same place and his, his coach knows. That's my, that's my crown jewel. I'll do whatever it takes to protect him.

• 33:33Chuck Nice?

  Well, you better sell those jewels. All right.

• 33:36Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay. Keep an eye on eBay, is all we can say. Right, because Chuck and Rashid were new bezies. Uh, it was time for that, that question. Yeah. Name your best ever. Starting five. But before we get there, you've got two minutes, just two minutes. Jot down who you think. The starting five is that he will choose, no going via the fridge and taking like two hours and coming back later. Two minutes you've got, then we're gonna run the tape. Run that tape, go on then.

• 34:07Chuck Nice?

  I need from you, a starting five of all time, anybody from across the history of basketball, and you, you gotta put yourself on the team though, alright? Now, but you can change any position you wanna play, okay? So you don't just have to play your position, you can change any position you wanna play.

• 34:25Gary O'Reilly?

  Alright, okay, make it easier. Let's go with a six. Then you can play yourself, then the man that you would swap in and out.

• 34:33Chuck Nice?

  So, starting five and a six man, who would your six man be?

• 34:37Speaker 03

  Wow, that's hard, man.

• 34:38Chuck Nice?

  That's a tough one, ain't it?

• 34:39Gary O'Reilly?

  Chuck, you and I aren't in it.

• 34:41Speaker 03

  I would say, okay, my starting center, gotta be the captain.

• 34:46Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay. Okay.

• 34:47Speaker 03

  Right.

• 34:48Gary O'Reilly?

  Kareem.

• 34:50Speaker 03

  My starting point, I would have to go with John Stockton.

• 34:55Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 34:55Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh.

• 34:56Speaker 03

  Plays D and he gives up that ball.

• 34:58Chuck Nice?

  Wow. Interesting.

• 35:01Speaker 03

  My two guard, I would say would be between Mike and the Big O.

• 35:07Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 35:07Speaker 03

  Uh, the Big O was aggressive in his day, and he did a lot of amazing things as well. Um, the three for sure, is that gentleman over there.

• 35:15Chuck Nice?

  Of course.

• 35:16Speaker 03

  Uh, Dr. J.

• 35:17Chuck Nice?

  For sure.

• 35:19Speaker 03

  The four, my four man would probably be Maurice Lucas.

• 35:25Speaker 03

  Uh, Maurice Lucas was a hell of a defender, grabbed some rebounds, and he was a bruiser. He didn't take no crap.

• 35:30Chuck Nice?

  He's a banger.

• 35:31Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay.

• 35:33Speaker 03

  Wow, six man is hard.

• 35:36Speaker 03

  Uh, sheesh. Cause it takes a lot for a six man. You gotta come off the bench, know the game, score, and you got defense. Hmm. I don't know. That six man would be hard.

• 35:48Chuck Nice?

  Chuck Nice, he's Chuck Nice.

• 35:50Speaker 03

  Chuck Nice, there you go.

• 35:51Gary O'Reilly?

  Maybe Coop.

• 35:51Speaker 03

  Strong, strong power forward, slash, shooting guard, slash, point guard out of Philly.

• 35:56Chuck Nice?

  There you go. Man, that was easy. That was easy.

• 36:00Gary O'Reilly?

  Wasn't it, Jaz? Rashid, what a pleasure, what an honour. Thank you, sir.

• 36:03Chuck Nice?

  Thanks so much, brother. Appreciate you.

• 36:05Speaker 03

  All day, all night.

• 36:06Gary O'Reilly?

  Thank you.

• 36:10Gary O'Reilly?

  We didn't make it. Well, we kind of ish. You made it.

• 36:12Chuck Nice?

  I made it on the sixth man, you know.

• 36:14Gary O'Reilly?

  Try to get Michael Cooper in there.

• 36:15Chuck Nice?

  Listen, I'll take pity wherever I can get it. I can't tell you how much pity sex I've had in my life. So, makes me no difference.

• 36:22Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, anyone else feel uncomfortable hearing that? What's it just mean?

• 36:31Chuck Nice?

  You know what I don't, what I can't believe is that he didn't put LeBron on the all-time list. See, that's what the older players do, man. The guys that have been around, they're just like, nah, you gotta wait. Like, you gotta do your time and then we can put you in history. But it's so weird that he did not put LeBron even as the sixth man.

• 36:46Gary O'Reilly?

  Do you think he got sat down and was told to wait before he got sort of a hint?

• 36:50Chuck Nice?

  I'm sure. Yeah, I mean, that's normally how it goes, but, I mean, I can see Oscar Robertson, he said the big O, I can definitely see, of course, Jordan's on there. John Stockton though, I mean, listen, but he's talking about a point guard, so yeah, I mean, that's a guy who knows how to pass the ball.

• 37:03Gary O'Reilly?

  Stockton, Stockton may not be the fans' favorite, but I think he's one of those guys, he's a player's player.

• 37:09Chuck Nice?

  Player, player, yeah.

• 37:10Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, because when you, if you played with him or you played against him,

• 37:13Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 37:13Gary O'Reilly?

  You knew, if you were, if you're in a score yard pick, him.

• 37:17Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 37:18Gary O'Reilly?

  He's just one of those guys.

• 37:19Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, I kinda like Pistol Pete Maravich too. I mean, if you're gonna play that, somebody who knows how to pass the ball like that. But I'm what, but forget that. Here's the deal. It was an unfair question.

• 37:28Gary O'Reilly?

  It is.

• 37:28Chuck Nice?

  It's an unfair question because it doesn't make, you know, it's, it's impossible to ask. I mean, to answer.

• 37:33Gary O'Reilly?

  It's subjective.

• 37:34Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, it's completely subjective. You can't answer that question.

• 37:36Gary O'Reilly?

  You can't say Rasheed Wallace's answer is wrong.

• 37:38Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 37:38Gary O'Reilly?

  Because it's his answer.

• 37:39Chuck Nice?

  It's his answer.

• 37:40Gary O'Reilly?

  And hopefully, uh, you've got somewhere in that kind of ballpark as far as, uh, names are concerned with starting five and possibly a six. We'll see.

• 37:48Chuck Nice?

  As long as Chuck Nice was on your list, then your list was perfectly okay.

• 37:52Gary O'Reilly?

  You see, set you up for that.

• 37:53Chuck Nice?

  There you go.

• 37:53Gary O'Reilly?

  There you go, right. Right, before we close out the show, we cannot, cannot leave without letting Dr. J have the final say. So, uh, who is the Dr. J of today? This is the Big Man's Thoughts.

• 38:08Chuck Nice?

  All right, let me ask you one last question. When you look at the game today, is there a player in your mind where you say, "Man, that kid reminds me of a young Julius Irving."

• 38:21Speaker 02

  Well, you know, I've been asked the question a number of times and when I see Kawhi Leonard play, when he's at his best, I mean, I think that that guy is, he's a reflection of how I used to play, how I used to see myself play. Okay, cool. Yeah. That's awesome.

• 38:37Chuck Nice?

  Dr. J, thank you.

• 38:38Speaker 02

  It's an absolute pleasure.

• 38:39Chuck Nice?

  Thank you, sir.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, without a doubt. Thank you, man.

• 38:42Chuck Nice?

  Thank you.

• 38:43Gary O'Reilly?

  And he sees, he's not turned his back on the game, he's still got a love, I know he's been involved with coaching, Dr. J, and you've got that feeling through Rashid and through Dr. J, that they're still emotionally connected.

• 38:57Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 38:58Gary O'Reilly?

  They're still very thoughtful, very deep in the modern game and not just walked away and seen it cold, they're still very much part of it. And their awareness of what's going on, their awareness of all of the aspects and dimensions of the game are still there. I mean, with the next show, with part two, when we get into the basketball shoe technology, from memory, they have some very, very interesting stories.

• 39:25Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 39:26Gary O'Reilly?

  Dr. J was involved in an awful lot during the seventies and eighties.

• 39:29Chuck Nice?

  Absolutely.

• 39:30Gary O'Reilly?

  In shoe development with Converse.

• 39:31Chuck Nice?

  He's practically a shoe designer.

• 39:33Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah. And then Rashid, well, he's Philly, and you know what that means.

• 39:37Chuck Nice?

  Oh, yeah, absolutely. Bad attitude. No, I'm joking. Sorry, Philly.

• 39:42Gary O'Reilly?

  No, it means a certain edginess, which I think as a competitive, elite athlete, particularly NBA, vital component.

• 39:52Chuck Nice?

  Oh, yeah, absolutely, yeah. Well, this was a fun show, man.

• 39:56Gary O'Reilly?

  It was, and I'm so pleased.

• 39:57Chuck Nice?

  Our first clip show.

• 39:58Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 39:59Chuck Nice?

  Hey!

• 40:00Gary O'Reilly?

  And I'm so pleased that we got this unrivaled, unparalleled access to amazing athletes like Dr. J and Rasheed Wallace, and we're grateful for everybody for doing that.

• 40:10Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 40:11Gary O'Reilly?

  Well, it's quite simple today. I've been Gary O'Reilly.

• 40:14Chuck Nice?

  And I've been Chuck Nice.

• 40:16Gary O'Reilly?

  And this has been Playing with Science. Don't forget, part two of our basketball mini-series up very, very soon.