#ICYMI – How Technology Is Changing Football

Find out how helmet sensors, virtual reality, big data and radio controlled tackling dummies are revolutionizing football with hosts Gary O’Reilly and Chuck Nice. Guests include Neil Tyson, NY Jets QB Ryan Fitzpatrick, Dartmouth coach Buddy Teevens, more. Don’t miss an episode of Playing with Science. Subscribe on: iTunes Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/playing-with-science/id1198280360?mt=2 Stitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/startalk/playing-with-science TuneIn: http://tunein.com/radio/Playing-with-Science-p952100/ SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/startalk_playing-with-science GooglePlay Music: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Iimke5bwpoh2nb25swchmw6kzjq NOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free. Find out more at https://www.startalkradio.net/startalk-all-access/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:11Gary O'Reilly?

  I'm Gary O'Reilly And I'm Chuck Nice And this Is Playing with Science Today, we are looking at the cutting-edge tech that is changing football at every level. NFL has been late to the party when it comes to big data and its analytics, but now, it's game on. We're talking player tracking, biodata and virtual reality training that are revolutionising the way players and coaches do their thing. The guys responsible for bringing about all this technical ecstasy are today's guests. Jill Stell Fox, VP of Zebra Technologies, whose organisation is changing the way coaches go about their game day strategies and much, much more.

• 0:52Chuck Nice?

  I love the way you say "Zebra", that's awesome.

• 0:55Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay.

• 0:55Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. And Derek Belt, CEO and co-founder of Striver, is one of the men behind the VR training sensation that is sweeping through the world of football. And Buddy Teeman's head coach at Dartmouth College, who's actually benefiting from the appliance of this science.

• 1:11Gary O'Reilly?

  And as a special bonus, we have Neil deGrasse Tyson talking to New York Jets quarterback and all-round smart guy Ryan Fitzpatrick.

• 1:18Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 1:18Gary O'Reilly?

  So stick around, it's gonna be a whole lot of fun.

• 1:20Chuck Nice?

  A lot of fun, indeed. And to kick things off, we're gonna take a little look and listen to a clip of a coach interacting with some technology on the sideline. And you know what, it always doesn't go the way you think it does.

• 1:36Speaker 02

  Well, Belichick was checking out the tablet and was not happy.

• 1:42Chuck Nice?

  Look out, tablet!

• 1:45Chuck Nice?

  Now, for those of you who don't have... Who won? The tablet or Belichick? I don't think the tablet. Just like anybody who goes up against Bill Belichick, the tablet ultimately lost.

• 1:55Gary O'Reilly?

  But I kinda think we saw there, we witnessed a watershed moment. The old-school, old-school clipboard, pen, paper versus a bit of new technology. And I think from now on, we're gonna see the guys that side and the guys the other side.

• 2:08Chuck Nice?

  And it's true, because what we were just witnessing, for those of you who are listening, what we were witnessing here in studio was Bill Belichick taking a tablet. Throwing it down like like it was a clipboard and it's like dude those cost money.

• 2:22Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 2:22Chuck Nice?

  Like, okay, we can get more clipboards. All right. These things we're actually paying for because the NFL has a partnership with Microsoft Surface and they use them instead of clipboards because not only can you write plays on them, you can pull up pictures. I mean, it's a completely immersive, interactive experience.

• 2:40Gary O'Reilly?

  Plus it's $400 million worth.

• 2:42Chuck Nice?

  Right, plus it's a $400 million deal. You know, that always helps, right?

• 2:46Gary O'Reilly?

  That's fine.

• 2:47Chuck Nice?

  But like you said, Gary, what you have is a classic depiction of old school and new school coming together. And right there, we saw a little bit of a clash. And and here's another clip that we have that actually shows exactly what you said.

• 3:01Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 3:02Chuck Nice?

  Old school, as in the game, coming together with new school, which is technology the way it should be.

• 3:08Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 3:10Speaker 03

  So what does all this data mean? Many tech companies are hoping it means new ways to exploit and enhance the game viewing experience.

• 3:19Speaker 04

  The way we integrate next gen stats into the broadcast is basically by following along the storylines of the game. Giants in Washington getting set to start on Thursday Night Football. We look to find big time gains with running backs or wide receivers. We look to say separation between defensive backs and wide receivers. Manning back to throw, steps up, deep ball. Odell Beckham Jr. on the post. Now someone can say, it's 22 miles an hour fast. You bet it is. It's number one in the league this week. Jumps up, makes the catch. Touchdown Giants!

• 3:48Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 3:49Gary O'Reilly?

  Wow, indeed. You know what's gonna happen?

• 3:51Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 3:51Gary O'Reilly?

  There's gonna be so much data comes off of this kind of tech. The teams are not gonna know what to do with it. And the smart guys are gonna find out how to access everything that they can give them quicker than the others, and that's gonna give them the edge.

• 4:07Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, it's like technological warfare along with the warfare that's on the field, that's happening on the field, which is, you know, we've, we've, we've seen it for years in baseball. You know, there are certain things in baseball that you do that are just automatic. If you have a man on this base and a man on this base, and there's two outs, you know, you do this. If there's one out, then you're bunt. If you, if you, if, if, if you, you, you position a player in this way for a suicide squeeze for, you know, so there's so many, like, there's so much.

• 4:37Gary O'Reilly?

  Do you know something you said earlier on before we came on air?

• 4:40Chuck Nice?

  What's that?

• 4:41Gary O'Reilly?

  I know it's a gladiatorial event, right? Absolutely. This is weaponized. True. The teams. Yeah. This is really where it's gone. This is where. In a nice way. No, yeah, no. But it really has. It's the coolest thing. It's teams weaponizing technology. The other thing that's cool is Neil deGrasse Tyson catching up with New York Jets quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick, a man entrusted with not just this technology, but the ball too.

• 5:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Do you have any sense that artificial intelligence going forward could in one way or another assist the game of football? Could there be some some machine that analyzes the the the game unfolding as a coach would? But then have much better data, kind of like in baseball where there's so much time between plays. There's everybody can just look at the the lifetime of statistics. What what zone does this player hit the ball into? You know, do you think, do you see a future for AI in the NFL?

• 5:38Speaker 06

  It's difficult because there are so many statistics in baseball. There's so many things that uh that they have in that game that we don't in ours. Ours is, I guess, maybe a little more imperfect and there are certainly patterns, but.

• 5:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, but aren't they, aren't they tracking you now with chips so that they know how much you've run? And how far you've gone in a game and and and positionally?

• 6:01Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 6:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's the next thing, right?

• 6:03Speaker 06

  And also maybe the even for player safety, the impact potentially, you know, a blow to the head or something. I think that's some way that it may affect the game.

• 6:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So do you foresee a time where there's not only the chip that tracks where you are and how many uh how many uh? How far you've run, but also something that can measure accelerations? Kind of like the accelerometer on your on your smartphone.

• 6:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If that's the case, then we can track how much damage has happened or how much um sort of um.

• 6:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  How much stress your body has sustained during a game?

• 6:43Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, and I think uh.

• 6:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Was that coming? Do you see that coming?

• 6:47Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think it's right there. I think it's it's really close and they'll even they have like the next gen stats. So during a game they'll talk about um. You know, who ran the fastest? They'll put it up on the scoreboard, you know, somebody ran 21.8 miles an hour. And so even to track how fast people are going at their top speed at the beginning of the game versus the end of the game. And how tired people get.

• 7:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, and if you have data on them, you can say this guy's going to tire out by the first quarter, third quarter. Let's run against him instead of some, I mean, this is like baseball, like like we agreed, baseball does this, been doing this forever.

• 7:24Chuck Nice?

  Wow. And the funny thing is Neil is making conjecture there. But the truth is, all that technology exists right now.

• 7:35Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, the future is today.

• 7:36Chuck Nice?

  The future is today and the the the person who actually helps the NFL uh do that is with us right now. Uh on the line, we have a VP of Zebra Technologies, Jill Stelfox. Jill, welcome to the show.

• 7:51Gary O'Reilly?

  Hi Jill.

• 7:53Speaker 07

  Thanks, guys. Thanks for having me.

• 7:55Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, it's a pleasure. Straight out, what is the science behind your technology? And what does it provide the NFL, the clubs, the coaches, the players?

• 8:07Speaker 07

  We have um two RFID chips in the shoulder pads of each football player. We also have that same technology on the refs, on the sticks and in the ball this last season for Thursday night games.

• 8:23Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 8:24Speaker 07

  And so those those chips blink positional information up to 25 times a second. And it's caught with receivers in the stadium. So when a movement happens on the field of play to when we get it in our servers, it's about 120 milliseconds, so near real time.

• 8:44Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 8:44Speaker 07

  Um, exactly.

• 8:46Chuck Nice?

  That, I mean, that is extremely impressive. And what you're really talking about is, I was about to say, you said near real time. I'm like, that's real time tracking. And for those who are uninitiated, uh, RFID is simply radio frequency identification, which

• 9:00Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 9:01Chuck Nice?

  uh, is not really a new technology. Uh, RFID

• 9:07Speaker 07

  Not at all.

• 9:07Chuck Nice?

  RFID, uh, has been around for, for quite some time.

• 9:12Gary O'Reilly?

  But it's using it in a new way.

• 9:13Chuck Nice?

  You are using it in a very unique way. How exactly did you guys come to, uh, how did this come about? Cause I mean, first of all, it's genius

• 9:22Gary O'Reilly?

  Hmm.

• 9:22Chuck Nice?

  to, to be able to track players in real time. And we'll get into the benefits of that. But how exactly did this come about?

• 9:30Speaker 07

  So it's interesting because just like you guys were saying, RFID technology has been around for years and years and years and years. And at Zebra, we have been using it in manufacturing of cars and planes and all kinds of heavy equipment retail for a long, long time, where we track goods, people, services. And the interesting thing is, we were, about three years ago, we were looking at what other areas could use technology like this. And we came up with sports. And we did a test with the NFL and it worked great. And so we've been working with them as their official player tracking, um, company

• 10:12Speaker 07

  for the last three or four years. And it's been great, actually. All kinds of insights.

• 10:18Gary O'Reilly?

  So what sort of data can you provide Chuck, who's my new head coach here, in game? Or is there a delay as to the information being assimilated and then brought to the coach's table or on a tablet in front of him?

• 10:36Speaker 07

  So today, we provide in-game, um, information around speed, distance, um, closing distance of two players.

• 10:47Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 10:48Speaker 07

  For example, and all of that information goes to fans and the broadcaster for the game.

• 10:54Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 10:55Speaker 07

  It's not actually used by the coaching staff on the sidelines today.

• 10:58Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 10:59Speaker 07

  Um, but, uh, but the data goes to coaches, um, trainers, um, all of those kind of folks four hours after the end of a game.

• 11:09Chuck Nice?

  Okay, so.

• 11:10Speaker 07

  So they've got access to the information after the game.

• 11:13Chuck Nice?

  So it's really, it's serving kind of a twofold purpose. On the one hand, you're making the game a little bit more exciting for the viewer.

• 11:19Gary O'Reilly?

  Yep.

• 11:20Chuck Nice?

  Because now there is another layer for the viewer to get into the game. So, uh, let's say you get a, uh, um, a punt return where, uh, the player breaks away down the sideline and you can track the speed that that player is running for the entire play. And you can broadcast that speed almost in real time to the viewer who was in the stadium, right?

• 11:45Speaker 07

  Exactly. It's interesting because it ends up being in real time to the television viewer because, you know, our television feed is delayed ten to fifteen seconds.

• 11:55Chuck Nice?

  Exactly.

• 11:56Speaker 07

  And so it's in real time to the television viewer and near real time to the stadium viewer.

• 12:02Chuck Nice?

  So, so anybody who's into fantasy football, I can see this becoming another, like, another aspect of fantasy football.

• 12:10Gary O'Reilly?

  It's a more immersive experience for football fans.

• 12:13Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 12:14Gary O'Reilly?

  Definitely.

• 12:15Speaker 07

  Yep. So you can imagine I have, uh, lots of friends during fantasy football, uh, season because there is a tremendous amount of information that you can get from, um, these chips and that the NFL Today makes available to fans.

• 12:32Speaker 07

  One of the things, for example, that you guys were talking about earlier is, you know, the speed at the beginning of a game versus the speed at the end of a game. And obviously, for fantasy football, that's a nice thing to know.

• 12:45Chuck Nice?

  Oh, absolutely. And now, when you talk about this from a coaching standpoint, you say that, you know, basically, are you giving, like, from a big data standpoint, like, just all this information, is it kind of like a data dump from the entire game that the coaches now have at their disposal? Because I would imagine you would be able to utilize players differently based on the data that you're providing after a game.

• 13:15Speaker 07

  Yeah, it's actually really kind of fascinating because it's a good example of big data in that, you know, calculating the latitude and longitude of all 22 players during the whole game, it's a tremendous amount of data. But really, if you're a coach, what you want to know is, in that play, did we run it effectively?

• 13:37Chuck Nice?

  Hmm.

• 13:37Speaker 07

  And, you know, if I could do it over, did I have the right matchups?

• 13:43Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 13:43Speaker 07

  In terms of the time of the game and, you know, where my players were at. But then, think about it from the player perspective, which is what I would call small data. Like, I want to know, how did I do? Was I effective? And what three to five things could I improve on for next game?

• 14:04Chuck Nice?

  Well-

• 14:04Speaker 07

  And that's the kind of thing you can get from this.

• 14:06Gary O'Reilly?

  See, the thing, while you're saying that, my mind's kind of exploring how I would use the data. And then I realize, you're giving me an absolute massive amount of data. Firstly, are the coaches able, do they realize just how much data they've got access to? And are they asking the right questions of it, as far as you're aware?

• 14:30Speaker 07

  So two things. One is this kind of data needs history to it. And so this is our third full year in the NFL. And you need to sort of collect that much data to be able to look back and say, "Gosh, out of my 16 games in the last three years, how effective were we?" And so some of it is that, believe it or not, you need more and more data to get better answers.

• 14:59Chuck Nice?

  Hmm.

• 15:00Speaker 07

  And now that we're here in this year, I would say, yes, they're asking great questions.

• 15:06Chuck Nice?

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:07Speaker 07

  And, you know, they do get all the data, but they also get a lot of tools to be able to analyze the data, summary information, great reports, so that they don't have to go fish through all the details.

• 15:22Chuck Nice?

  And do you, do you help them with that? Does your company actually help kind of break down the data so it's delivered in these digestible forms?

• 15:32Speaker 07

  We do. The NFL provides information. We also provide information. It's funny, because when you work with data a lot, you can obviously get a lot of insights. And one of the things I always joke about is, you know, at Zebra, we're a bunch of data nerds. And, you know, at the NFL, they're football people. And so you bring those two skills together, and I think you can get some really great insights.

• 15:59Chuck Nice?

  That's awesome. Can you, can you tell us about enterprise asset intelligence, which is something I heard you talk about, and I'm a bit of a nerd myself, but... Doesn't show. But tell us about that, enterprise asset intelligence.

• 16:16Speaker 07

  Yeah, so enterprise asset intelligence, we think, is the ability to give you...

• 16:22Speaker 07

  Visibility into information that you wouldn't ordinarily get and turn that visibility into, you know, what we call insights. And so bringing together lots of data, being able to analyze it very quickly and then allow you to make good decisions. And so if you, if we go back to our roots in the manufacturing environment, for example, when you're out on the manufacturing floor building a car, you need to know in seconds if something's going wrong. And if it is, what are the three options that you have to get the line back on track?

• 17:04Speaker 07

  And so we give you kind of that next best answer of what to do or next best action.

• 17:10Chuck Nice?

  Wow. I'm just thinking the application of that in football is tremendous because it sounds to me like what you did was you took something that was really a logistics thing because when you talk about manufacturing and Tracking device. And tracking devices. I mean, for, for, in a, in a lifetime ago, when I first got out of school, I was the, the shipping manager for a company for a short period of time. Did that go well? And as you can see now, I'm a comedian. So that, that'll show, that'll show you how well it went. But my job was to track our merchandise Yeah.

• 17:52Chuck Nice?

  From Hong Kong to FOB Hong Kong to here in the States, wherever the destination was. What I'm seeing here is as a coach, you can actually use this to see where your players are and, and how effective they are on the field. Like this might even be something where a coach says, you know what, we need to move this guy. Like the way this guy moves, he'd be better in this other position. Is, is that, am I, am I thinking too much into this?

• 18:21Speaker 07

  No, you're not. That's exactly what it's able to do.

• 18:25Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 18:26Speaker 07

  And you can see The nice thing about having this data is you really can see the effectiveness of these players and you can say, gosh, I think, by the way, we play you on the right, but when I look back at your stats, you're better on the left, you're much more effective, so let's put you there, or you're better in this position over that position, or by the way, if you practiced a little bit less, you'd have more energy on game day, which would be great.

• 18:53Gary O'Reilly?

  Where else can you go with your technology to assist?

• 18:58Chuck Nice?

  And can you bring in other technologies? So for instance, you talk about tracking speed, right? And if we were able to take that and then bring in the biodata of that particular player, right? We might know that, hey, you know what? This guy, he just ran 45 yards on one play. He needs to actually sit out for a play, based on his heart rate, based on this, that, and the other. Is it, are you headed towards that state in your technology where you're able to bring in biodata and then combine the two and give real-time in-game feedback? Or is that a goal, or am I crazy?

• 19:40Speaker 07

  No, actually, it's here now.

• 19:42Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh.

• 19:43Speaker 07

  Oh, Jill.

• 19:44Gary O'Reilly?

  Tell me more.

• 19:45Speaker 07

  Yeah, in practice, so not in-game, biodata is not used in-game, but in practice, we do use biodata. So in our chip, we also have an accelerometer.

• 19:59Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh.

• 20:00Speaker 07

  And so there's information there around accelerometer. But things like heart rate, hydration, those things are generally Bluetooth-enabled, and our chip reads Bluetooth.

• 20:14Gary O'Reilly?

  Whoa.

• 20:15Speaker 07

  And so we gather that information off the body and send it back to the same System and right on the side of the practice field using surf tablets, coaches, trainers can get all that information, heart rate, speed, distance. Um, one of the funny things in practice is are they practicing or are they just talking?

• 20:39Gary O'Reilly?

  Jill, don't be giving away too many secrets about the players.

• 20:43Chuck Nice?

  So you're also, you're also big brother. Like you'll, like it's just like, all right, Johnson, you're mailing it in right here. We got the technology.

• 20:51Gary O'Reilly?

  Now there's nowhere to hide.

• 20:52Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, like you, you, you can actually tell whether or not a guy is making the kind of effort that he's supposed to make, uh, based by the marriage of the, uh, biodata and the tracking, right?

• 21:01Speaker 07

  That's exactly right. You can come up with what we would call an effort or an exertion, um, number and it tells you how are you doing based on your best day of practice, your best day of game day, and then, you know, where do you fit this time of the season in terms of hydration? Exactly.

• 21:22Gary O'Reilly?

  Jill, how long before you can measure emotional states like, uh, my wife just left me.

• 21:27Chuck Nice?

  I lost my kid.

• 21:28Gary O'Reilly?

  The safety and the cornerback are ganging up on me and I'm not feeling too clever.

• 21:32Chuck Nice?

  I'm being bullied.

• 21:33Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, how long before you're able to tap that particular reservoir and bring the data out of there?

• 21:40Speaker 07

  I honestly think that we're far away. However, it's one of the things that you can see so clearly in the data. We also did this year, the college championship game.

• 21:53Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 21:54Speaker 07

  And when you look at that game, it is amazing, the will that comes out of those kids that run farther and faster than they should in the fourth quarter than any statistic would say they would be able to, yet they're doing it.

• 22:10Chuck Nice?

  So there's this, so there, there is a psychological, uh, element to, to the tracking.

• 22:14Gary O'Reilly?

  Yep.

• 22:15Speaker 07

  There really is, and I don't know how to capture, um, you know, the meaning of it, but it's amazing to watch.

• 22:21Chuck Nice?

  Ah, man, this whole thing is just super fascinating.

• 22:24Gary O'Reilly?

  Isn't it?

• 22:25Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. Well, you know, we're, we're out of time for the segment. Thank you so much. I mean, uh, you are beyond the cutting edge, uh, right now. And, uh, one really quick last question, do, uh, are you, are you planning to take this technology into other sports? I, uh, cause I can see the applications in basketball and it even baseball as well. Is that, are you guys looking to do something with the NBA and the major league baseball?

• 22:48Speaker 07

  We are looking to do things with all kinds of leagues and in test with many of them now.

• 22:53Gary O'Reilly?

  Awesome. Well, Jill, the very best of luck and thank you for sharing your time with us. It's been a real eye opener for not just Chuck and myself, but all of our listeners.

• 23:03Speaker 07

  Thank you.

• 23:04Gary O'Reilly?

  You are welcome. All right, let's take a break. Yeah. Ah, man, that's, you know what? Yeah. That thing does everything. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Isn't it great? Right, we're gonna take a break. We're going from the reality of technology that does everything on the field and then probably a little bit more to the virtual reality that comes with training and the developments therein. So if you want to know what's really cutting edge in virtual reality and NFL training, stick around. We're back very, very shortly.

• 23:39Gary O'Reilly?

  Welcome back. I'm Gary O'Reilly. And I'm Chuck Nice. And this is Playing with Science. And today we're exploring how new technology is transforming the world of football. We're also featuring clips from an interview Neil deGrasse Tyson did with New York Jets quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick. Yes. Let's check out our next clip.

• 23:58Speaker 06

  Something cool with technology that they're doing too, uh, virtual reality, uh, which is just a different way for us to see the game whether for us, a lot of times it's in practice right now, but guys maybe that aren't getting the reps on the field. They can, uh, put on the headset and kind of go through a play and potentially that helps speed up development for some of the younger guys.

• 24:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Interesting. So they can put themselves on the field even though they're not on the field.

• 24:26Speaker 06

  Yeah, exactly. And it's great because you can, you can hit play just like you're, you know, watching a show on Netflix or something and look around and essentially feel like you're in the play. You can hit pause and, you know, look behind you, look up, look down at your shoes. Uh, it's pretty, pretty neat.

• 24:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wouldn't that be cool if you can do that in real life?

• 24:46Speaker 06

  Yes, it would.

• 24:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're the quarterback, pause. Okay, I got this.

• 24:51Speaker 06

  I feel that at home a lot of the time too with kids and the chaos. It would be great to pause.

• 24:56Gary O'Reilly?

  You see an NFL quarterback embracing new technology.

• 25:00Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 25:00Gary O'Reilly?

  And the whole thing about playing with science is to bring you closer to that tech. So joining us by video to bring his insight into everything that's become cutting edges, Derek Belch, CEO and co-founder of Striver, the guys behind the virtual reality technology and training.

• 25:18Chuck Nice?

  Welcome Derek, how are you buddy?

• 25:20Speaker 08

  Thanks guys, doing well. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

• 25:23Gary O'Reilly?

  First question, can you please give us a very brief primer on virtual reality for people living under a rock like myself versus augmented reality?

• 25:34Speaker 08

  Sure. So virtual reality, you know, at its simplest definition is really the, what we call the illusion of non-mediation. That sounds a little complicated. Basically immersion. So complete and total immersion. The idea that your mind is being taken to another place while your body is standing in, you know, a room in California, for example.

• 25:56Gary O'Reilly?

  Right.

• 25:57Speaker 08

  So that's basically VR. AR is exactly how it sounds. It's a tool to augment your daily life, the real world. You know, a car has had augmented reality for a long time with heads-up displays on the windshield. You know, people are hoping long-term that you can put on a pair of glasses and be shown all of the safety features in a factory while you're walking around. So, you know, basically VR, complete and total immersion, AR, augmenting the real world.

• 26:23Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. And the thing about VR that for anybody who's played a virtual reality game, if you use like HTC or any of these very advanced virtual reality games, your brain doesn't know the difference. Like when you're being attacked by zombies, you feel like fear for your life. You're like, I'm about to die from these zombies. So, you know, is that kind of the premise behind what you do when you're putting players in VR?

• 26:55Speaker 08

  Yeah, I mean, i- if it's done correctly, that is the reaction that people should have. You know, obviously, we're not creating first-person shooters or zombie games at Striver. But yeah, I mean, we, that, that's one of the reasons that we were so successful right out of the gate in 2015 is because people put on the headset and they said, wow, this is football. Uh, this is not a video game. This is not cheesy. This is not stupid. Uh, they got it right away. And I think, you know, as far as the early adopters are concerned, i- it was a no-brainer.

• 27:24Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. Now, is part of that because you were a player? I mean, you were a player, you're a coach, and now you are the progenitor of this particular usage of this technology? How did that actually factor into you making what you've made?

• 27:40Speaker 08

  So I appreciate the compliment, uh, to call me a player. I was a place kicker, and not a lot of people think, uh, place kickers are football players. So I appreciate that.

• 27:48Gary O'Reilly?

  Eric, you're on the team. That's enough.

• 27:50Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. And let me tell you something. It's, it's more than what most people could do. You know what I'd do? I'd sit on, I'd sit my fat ass on a couch and I'd watch guys like you place kick. So.

• 28:00Speaker 08

  Thank you. So, uh, but, but yes, that, that, that did help tremendously. Uh, the fact that I, I did play for five years, more importantly, coached, uh, at the time when we were, you know, moving this thing through collegiate NFL buildings. Trent Edwards, uh, who played in the NFL for six years and was a teammate of mine at Stanford, was right by my side. You know, the fact that football people were coming in and showing a tech product was a big deal. And we had a lot of coaches tell us in the room after we were done, hey, thank you for actually knowing how our world works because we see a lot of tech every day and nobody can communicate what it actually means, uh, and how it will actually fit in. So that was a huge factor in our success early on.

• 28:40Gary O'Reilly?

  So without giving away all of your secrets, what is the tech behind Striver?

• 28:45Speaker 08

  Yeah. So I mean, you know, a- at our core, uh, we use real video to create a virtual environment for, for players, uh, for athletes. And, you know, that comes, that has its positives and negatives. The, the positives are it's real. It looks real. It sounds real. It feels real. It's not a goofy video game character, kind of, you know, choppy, chopily running across the screen. There is science behind this coming out of Stanford where I'm I'm watching somebody in a virtual environment and if they don't move like a real person, my brain is going to tune out. So the fact that we can give you a fairly accurate 360 degree fully immersive view of what you actually see on the field, real sounds, real movements, real speed, that's a big deal and that's really cool. The negatives are, right now, honestly, like

• 29:30Speaker 08

  football, American football is probably the best sport. We have a few teams that we're working with in the NBA, there's a few kind of isolated use cases in basketball, baseball, we'll get there eventually when the clarity, you know, improves on the headset, but for now, soccer, hockey, certain elements of basketball where there's a lot of fluidity and movement, probably not good for VR because it makes people sick. American football is the best use case because everybody starts from a static position, they read, they react, and they go. And, you know, the way that we do it, that's the best use case today and we'll kind of see where this goes long term.

• 30:03Chuck Nice?

  Okay, let's fold it back on to you. You're a place kicker. Would it have benefited you, the VR training, or is it just for one particular position only?

• 30:11Speaker 08

  So it would have absolutely benefited me because I had a strong leg and a weak mind. So seeing, seeing, so we actually did a test two years ago with the Stanford kicker who I coached when he was a backup for a couple of years. And he was three for six lifetime coming in to 2015 season. We built him this little visualization tool where he could watch himself make kicks over and over and over again. He went 18 out of 20 in 2015, he was all conference. I think he went 22 of 27 this past year. He just set the all-time field goal accuracy record in Stanford history.

• 30:48Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 30:49Speaker 08

  It absolutely, yeah, it absolutely can work from a visualization standpoint. He's not the only kicker that's been using our stuff in that way.

• 30:55Chuck Nice?

  That's amazing.

• 30:56Speaker 08

  We're doing this for quarterbacks, we're doing it for linebackers, we're doing it for safeties.

• 30:59Chuck Nice?

  Hey, let's, let's talk about quarterbacks for a second.

• 31:02Speaker 08

  Yeah, sure.

• 31:03Chuck Nice?

  Because when you, when you think about the NFL, right now, with the speed of linebackers and the blitzing, blitzing packages that these coaches are putting into the games, I mean, it's, it's, it's Incredible how quickly a play unfolds. And you're looking at guys meeting to get rid of the ball in about two seconds, 2.2 seconds. Like, those are the guys that really do well, okay?

• 31:29Gary O'Reilly?

  Unless you're Aaron Rodgers.

• 31:30Chuck Nice?

  Unless you're, well, yeah. Well, even Aaron Rodgers has a pretty quick release. I mean, he can, he can make some time with his feet. Yeah, but, um, so are you able to create different scenarios? And then measure like the improvement in a player's performance? So you would give like, you would go from a three second play? And now let's make it so that it's now a two second play. And let's see how you're doing or how you're progressing. Are you able to kind of hold a player's hand and move them along the process?

• 32:02Speaker 08

  Yeah, so, you know, a lot of what we do is honestly dependent on how much time a, a coach and a player want to put into this. Uh, there are some teams we're working with that are doing very surface level, easy things that kind of integrate right into their routine. They don't have to change much. Uh, other teams are really going all in on this. Uh, and we actually just unveiled an assessment tool to do what you're talking about. Hey, if you need to make a decision in point eight of a second, which is, happens a lot against the blitz especially. We want to know if, if you know it in point eight of a second. We want to know if you click that button while you're in the virtual environment fast enough. We want to see where your head's moving and make sure that you're actually looking in the right spot.

• 32:43Speaker 08

  So, uh, this can be a very, very powerful assessment tool. Um, we are working on, you know, how do we put this in the hands of the teams even more? So they don't have to tell us a hundred different things they want and we do it. And there's a long turnaround time. We're building the tools so they can do a lot of this on their own. You know, that as an off season tool, when I can't be on the field getting reps as an in season tool, when I'm a backup and I don't get reps. Uh, really, really phenomenal, uh, use cases across the board.

• 33:10Gary O'Reilly?

  Do you see this as a cognitive skill enhancer as well as the, the ability to read patterns? The pattern recognition side of it?

• 33:19Speaker 08

  Oh, sure. Yeah, and I think the, you know, the biggest thing as to why VR works is I don't have to get 21 other guys to go out on the field to get that rep.

• 33:29Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 33:29Speaker 08

  And I can get it, I can get it 100 times instead of two. Um, I don't know how many players have actually done, you know, one play 100 times, but you know, we, we look at all the data and we have some NFL quarterbacks that we've asked them, hey, why did you watch that play 16 times? And they say, well, I only got it once in practice. So, so, and I know he's gonna call it in the game. So that, that, that is why VR can be effective. And, you know, it's all about what people want to put into it. If, if the goal is to memorize a route, if the goal is to memorize a coverage, they do it. If the goal is just to use this as that last little bit of mental confidence, um, going into the game, they do it. So everybody uses this in a, in a different way. It's been pretty neat to see.

• 34:10Gary O'Reilly?

  From my point of view, looking at it technically, the 360 degree cameras, you've got to have them in the right place. You can't bring them into a game situation. Or can you? Or are you working on that already?

• 34:23Speaker 08

  Yeah. So, you know, we, on a sense, we've kind of hit a wall a little bit with where, uh, where we can take this thing. Um, we, you know, we, we've come up with a lot of different ways for content capture. Uh, you guys may have seen some of the stuff that Intel's been doing, um, in games with the, their, their company Replay Technologies that they acquired where you can, you know, rotate and get different angles.

• 34:45Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 34:46Speaker 08

  So that, that's the future for sure.

• 34:48Gary O'Reilly?

  Right.

• 34:48Speaker 08

  The bulk of what we've done to date has been in practice and it's been kind of how much time do players and coaches want to dedicate to this? Long-term, that it's probably two or three years away from being VR-ready, something like that. Uh, and we're very close with Intel in that regard. It is definitely coming down the pipe.

• 35:05Chuck Nice?

  Hey, you know, I saw that you tweeted out to Clemson congratulating them on a national championship. Uh, did you work with those guys? Or do you just know people there?

• 35:14Speaker 08

  Uh, Clemson was our second college team that jumped on two years ago.

• 35:18Chuck Nice?

  Oh, wow.

• 35:19Speaker 08

  And without going into too much detail, I will tell you that they use the heck out of it. Uh, and they use it in many different ways. And again, back to what you guys asked before about being a former player and kind of understanding that world.

• 35:31Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 35:32Speaker 08

  We're not, we're not gonna say VR is the reason that they just went to back-to-back national titles.

• 35:36Chuck Nice?

  Okay, Derek, Derek, Derek, Derek. Bro, gotta stop you right there. You're the CEO of a company, okay? All right? I don't want to hear that talk anymore. Here's the deal. The reason why they won is because of VR. All right? That's right. Striver won the championship. As a matter of fact, they call it the Clemson Striver Championship. That's the way you gotta do this, buddy. I'm gonna say it for you, man.

• 36:01Gary O'Reilly?

  I just found your new poster boy.

• 36:03Speaker 08

  I appreciate that. I appreciate that. But the teams appreciate when we don't say stuff like that.

• 36:08Chuck Nice?

  I'm sure. That's why I say it for you, bro. Hey, this is just fascinating stuff. Congratulations, man, on taking, you know, nascent technology and then seeing it through to a place now where it looks as though it's going to become an integral part of what we know as America's greatest pastime. It's not baseball, it is football. And we all know that. And congratulations, man. Job well done.

• 36:34Speaker 08

  Thank you, guys. I appreciate it. Happy to come on anytime. Thanks.

• 36:37Gary O'Reilly?

  Derek, thank you. Derek Belch there from Striver, the man behind the VR training technology that is sweeping through football. Up next, well, we'll bring you the coaches' perspective on playing with science. Stick around.

• 36:55Gary O'Reilly?

  Welcome back. I'm Gary O'Reilly.

• 36:57Chuck Nice?

  And I'm Chuck Nice.

• 36:58Gary O'Reilly?

  And this is Playing with Science. And today we are talking about new tech and how it is revolutionizing the world of football. We've spoken already to the man behind the technology, Derek Belch. Let's now get a man who is adopting this technology and using it to his advantage. And joining us now is Buddy Teevens, head coach of football at Dartmouth College. Welcome to the show, coach.

• 37:24Speaker 09

  Good to be here, guys. Thanks for having me.

• 37:26Chuck Nice?

  It's a pleasure, Coach T.

• 37:28Gary O'Reilly?

  So how come you got to embrace this technology at Dartmouth?

• 37:34Speaker 09

  Well, interesting. It's all who you know. And Derek Belch was a recruit for me when I was the head coach at Stanford.

• 37:40Chuck Nice?

  Ah.

• 37:41Speaker 09

  He and Trent Edwards have put the company together. And I learned about it, and I'm kind of fascinated by the technological advances made in everyday life and how are they adaptable to football. Gave him a call and said, look, I can't pay what you guys are paying. He says, Coach, maybe we can help you out. And they've been absolutely phenomenal. The system itself, Striver, has helped our quarterbacks immensely, our linebackers, our middle players, safeties, and often also our running backs and interior linemen.

• 38:13Chuck Nice?

  Wow. And what you just said is super fascinating, and there's a bunch to unpack there. And so if you could, just in a cursory fraction, kind of break down, from a coach's standpoint, the players' positions that you just mentioned, and the different benefits of this type of technology, what does it bring to it? So we really got into a lot of it. We just talked to Derek. We got into a lot of the quarterback. So barring the quarterback, why don't we start with like the safety, which like I'm really interested to see how a position like that might benefit?

• 38:49Speaker 09

  The safety is basically the quarterback on the defensive side of the football. So he's responsible for any number of calls, dispersion of an offensive formation, personnel groupings, and it's hard to get an awful lot of snaps in a practice situation. But we can multiply it exponentially by sending it back to the dorm room, having it on a computer in essentially real time, and a guy can practice making calls, making adjustments. He can see deployment of the offensive players. He can see blocking schemes and can practice his calls. And we found that hugely successful. I mentioned the quarterbacks. We do that extensively. We've had great success with our safeties and also our linebackers.

• 39:30Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, now the linebackers make sense along with the safeties, but did I hear you say interior linemen? Because how would the VR work with something like that?

• 39:40Speaker 09

  Well, you look at a stance, how does a an offensive lineman, there's cues that we try to identify. Is he heavy in his hand? Is he back on his heels? Is he a little bit wider in his stance? Is his shoulders, are his shoulders a little bit more erect? And when you start to focus on that, it's one thing to say it, but it's another to be able to point it out as a coach. Say, hey, look at this, look at his hands. Man, the knuckles are white. He's coming forward. Hey, look at, there's no color in his hands, man, he's leaning back. You know, small things like that may seem insignificant, but if a guy can get just a fraction of an edge or an opportunity to exploit a weakness defensively, from a defensive standpoint, it's going to be beneficial to our team.

• 40:22Speaker 09

  So, the blocking schemes, a back block by an offensive center. You know, if your three technique or tackle sees that coming or can understand exactly what's happening and then repeatedly view it and watch how it's, the block is unfolding, he's better prepared to defend himself against it.

• 40:41Gary O'Reilly?

  Coach, from your personal point of view, how have you accommodated the use of big data to the benefit of your college, your coaches, and your players?

• 40:52Speaker 09

  Well, we try to use as much as we can. We've got basically a statistical breakdown on how, you know, how you should call a game. Clock usages, down and distance situations, when should you go for it on a fourth down situation, when you might use your punter and kicker. And it's all kind of an exploratory opportunity for us, but it's been awesome. Just to make you think a little bit more statistically, hey, what are the odds of us going on the plus 40-yard line on a fourth and three as opposed to punting and trying to keep the ball down inside? And, you know, data and data collection and then understanding data is huge. I think a lot of guys in our profession, maybe you're not as willing to kind of step

• 41:37Speaker 09

  into that. And my thought is, guys are a lot smarter than me figuring this stuff out, so let's try to use some of that knowledge in technical preparation to call a better game and prepare my guys a little bit more productively.

• 41:49Gary O'Reilly?

  So, has the data that you've been provided changed your approach as a coach to the game?

• 41:56Speaker 09

  Yes, it has. Specifically, when should we go for it in a fourth down situation? I've become much more aggressive in different field zones. There's an awareness in terms of clock management and timeouts. When you may want to consider using a timeout or letting the clock run, stopping the clock and so forth with a kill call from the quarterback. Just little subtleties, but if you look nationwide, different games, and can glean information from some of those different games and compile it and then review it, there's some consistencies across the board or some patterns that develop. And if I become more aware of the patterns, should that opportunity or situation arise,

• 42:38Speaker 09

  I'll reflect back on it and think, you know, I saw so-and-so do it and I'm going to do something a little bit different. Or that timeout, I'm not going to use that timeout right now, I'm going to save it. So, yeah, it makes you think more deeply as a coach, and I think it's a tremendous opportunity for a lot of folks to try to expand their knowledge of the game and really the comfort level with situations that arise during the course of a game.

• 43:01Chuck Nice?

  So let me ask you, when you think about big data and what you were talking about, recognizing patterns and such, it kind of reminds me of like a blackjack player sitting at a table. And there's one guy who uses like a basic strategy, or he uses like, we know the odds of how many decks in a shoe, and when I get a certain hand, this is how I should play it. As opposed to a guy who says, you know, I got a hunch, I got a hunch the dealer has a six under there, I'm gonna hit it, right? So what do you, do you see big data moving coaching into a more scientific position

• 43:45Chuck Nice?

  as opposed to a more player personnel, gut-type position?

• 43:53Speaker 09

  Yeah, I really think so. The card counter mindset gives you an advantage to some extent, but the nature of the game, you go on a hunch as well. And the group that we use in terms of analytics, we take a look and they'll give me a report back each week and say, in this situation, we would have recommended X, but you chose Y. In this situation, Y worked for you. And it may be, hey, my kicker had a bad week in practice, and he's a 35-plus guy, but man, he just wasn't hitting it, so I opted to punt. And my kicker hit a nice punt, knocked it back on the two-yard line. We come out looking good. But there's a rationale behind it. And I think it will come down to, how do you feel? And you've got more immediate

• 44:36Speaker 09

  information. You feel like your offensive line is in sync and in rhythm, and it's fourth and one, and maybe you think you can run the ISO and pick up that yard. Well, then you're going to go with it. But quite often, it's been fairly close in terms of being in sync. But with analytics, it's pushed me into the more aggressive mode. And what I've heard, Army really modified their approach to the game, specifically because of data derived from the company.

• 45:03Gary O'Reilly?

  So the days of the conservative coach are finished?

• 45:06Speaker 09

  Yeah, no, I don't think so. You know, we've got some of the outliers that will just kind of run it up and take a look. And I guess I like to think of myself maybe a little bit more progressive in thought.

• 45:19Gary O'Reilly?

  Right. It's exciting.

• 45:21Speaker 09

  Well, it's interesting, because I think that's where the whole world is going.

• 45:25Gary O'Reilly?

  Absolutely.

• 45:26Speaker 09

  And football is a conservative sport, and conservative approach is generally taken. And I think there's an opportunity for guys to kind of take a look. And I don't want to say take a risk. I think it's calculated. And if it's beneficial to our program and our players, you know, everybody looks good.

• 45:39Chuck Nice?

  Hey, let me ask you about safety. Always a concern when you're talking about football. It's a very physical contact sport. Is there any way that big data is leading to improved player safety?

• 45:53Speaker 09

  Well, we employ sensors in all of our helmets. When we get a read, we've got a computer on the sideline which will register contact points on a helmet and magnitude of G-forces essentially.

• 46:06Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 46:07Speaker 09

  And anything above a 25, that's significant and we'll be aware of that. So we will have a trainer just kind of point out if we had a big hit. Now, I'm kind of a, maybe a different guy to ask about this. We don't tackle. I haven't been tackling for the last six years in practice.

• 46:22Chuck Nice?

  Now, before you go any further, Coach, because what you just said is absolutely fascinating, you got to tell us about MVP, which is your thing, the Mobile Virtual Player. When you say you don't tackle, can you please explain to our listeners what you mean by that? And what MVP is?

• 46:39Speaker 09

  Certainly. Six years ago, I just, with all the concussive concerns nationwide, I'd done a little bit of research and I opted not to tackle our own players in practice.

• 46:50Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 46:51Speaker 09

  And so, we never make a tackle on another Dartmouth player in spring practice, in preseason practice, or during the course of the season. And what I found, what we do tackle are inanimate objects. What was available were stationary pads and we'd use those in different drills. And I had an idea of mobilizing one of these static pads. And a good friend of mine from the engineering department, Thayer School of Engineering is outstanding in terms of development and research and whatnot. John Courier was a classmate of mine here at Dartmouth. I said, "Hey, can you make this thing move?" And we went into a year-long study, graduate school was involved at great length, and we came up with MVP, Mobile Virtual Player.

• 47:36Speaker 09

  And essentially, it mimics the movement of a football player and specifically on defense, we can tackle it innumerable times. And though we stopped tackling live people, and what I should say, we dropped our concussive head injury by roughly 80%.

• 47:52Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 47:53Speaker 09

  Peripheral injuries, shoulders, arms, backs, necks, and so forth, that dropped as well. But our missed tackles in ballgames dropped 50%.

• 48:01Chuck Nice?

  Whoa.

• 48:02Speaker 09

  So we hit each other less. Hit each other less, but tackle better.

• 48:07Chuck Nice?

  So you so less wear and tear on the player and increased efficiency on game day at that?

• 48:13Speaker 09

  Exactly right.

• 48:14Chuck Nice?

  That's amazing. Now, one question. Could you please give this technology to the Philadelphia Eagles?

• 48:19Gary O'Reilly?

  Nah, nah.

• 48:21Speaker 09

  We do. We have eight NFL teams have put it on board.

• 48:24Chuck Nice?

  Oh, yeah?

• 48:25Speaker 09

  Steelers specifically have been outstanding with it. Really like what they've seen. Uh, the Falcons had it down with them, the Ravens, uh, San Francisco 49ers, Notre Dame had it at the college level. So it's in its infancy, but there's, there's a lot of positive that's coming back. You know, essentially you can full speed tackle. It's 180 pounds, about six feet tall, runs a 4'8", 4'9", 40. You can tackle it nonstop. Uh, you can cut block it. Things that you don't want to do against your own players.

• 48:55Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 48:56Speaker 09

  Uh, sacking a quarterback. There's not a team in the country in practice that has a defensive lineman actually tackle someone. The risk of injury to the quarterback.

• 49:04Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 49:05Speaker 09

  But we can tackle this dummy, have him simulate a quarterback situation, move and make a tackle. So we've become more proficient through tackling more frequently. Uh, I tell people, we probably tackle more than anyone in the country in practice, but we just don't tackle each other.

• 49:19Chuck Nice?

  Now, has the, has the inanimate tackling object actually ever broken a tackle and made somebody look stupid during practice?

• 49:30Speaker 09

  We do have a bloopers reel.

• 49:32Chuck Nice?

  Oh, I bet you do, Coach. Cause that's gotta be, that's gotta be even more incentive to your players to tackle well. It's just like, yo, man, the tackling dummy just, you just, the tackling dummy just broke away.

• 49:44Gary O'Reilly?

  You don't want to be on that holiday tape.

• 49:46Chuck Nice?

  You don't want to be on that tape.

• 49:47Gary O'Reilly?

  No, I want to be on that one.

• 49:49Chuck Nice?

  That is crazy.

• 49:50Gary O'Reilly?

  Plus, Coach, the great thing about it is it never talks back.

• 49:53Speaker 09

  No, that's, it takes instructions. It never gets tired. And I should say, the rugby world, our rugby team has been quite successful in the sevens and so forth. Uh, Gavin Hickey has, has put that to use at length and, uh, great interest from the rugby world who suffers from the same concerns or has the same concerns.

• 50:10Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, for sure they will do. Right, right. Uh, so let's, um, I believe we have a clip because what, you know, one of the things we're always, um, interested here on the show is, you know, from a coach's standpoint, uh, you know, the, the human element of coaching.

• 50:27Chuck Nice?

  You know, because you guys really have a tough job.

• 50:29Gary O'Reilly?

  The interaction between coach and player and the element therein.

• 50:31Chuck Nice?

  Right, yeah, because you guys have a tough job because you're not only responsible for the team itself and whether you win or lose, ultimately that rests on your shoulders, but then you're also responsible for players' individuals' performances, which has got to be a real pain in the ass.

• 50:48Gary O'Reilly?

  Backside.

• 50:49Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, oh, I'm sorry, did I say, I'm sorry, backside.

• 50:52Gary O'Reilly?

  Star of college after all, backside.

• 50:54Chuck Nice?

  But we've got a great clip of Neil deGrasse Tyson talking to quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick, talking about game momentum and the human element. We want you to take a listen to this and give us your reaction.

• 51:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Is momentum real in terms of, oh, we got a good lead at the beginning, we're at home, this is momentum we can take to win the game. Is that real or are you detached from that and every play is a fresh encounter for you?

• 51:19Speaker 06

  I think momentum is real and it can be play to play, it can be quarter to quarter, it can be game to game, but there's, there's just a human element to the game that'll never be able to be taken out of it. Guys' feelings, you know, just in terms of, you know, our current record right now, there's things that you try to get over and put behind you, but a team that is 10-0 versus a team that is 0-10 is going to have a much more positive outlook going into a game and, and it affects the way that you play. And so I think momentum will always be a part of the game because of the, just the human element.

• 52:01Gary O'Reilly?

  Going back to the data that you're able to accumulate through a whole variety of technology now, has that taken out the element of momentum? Are you able to reduce the odds more in your favor with more information?

• 52:16Chuck Nice?

  No, I think, I agree with Ryan, the, the human element will always be present and it's such an emotional game and enthusiasm and energy is required, but I like to think some of the data can help elevate that level. You get on a roll, you make a fourth down, a big critical fourth down play, you go for it and deepen your own territory and you make it, energizes guys, they start believing, they start flying around. So I think the two can go hand in hand.

• 52:40Gary O'Reilly?

  Coach Bill with us, we have another clip with Neil deGrasse Tyson talking to Ryan Fitzpatrick, here it comes.

• 52:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I, I only read this recently and that, that coaches do not.

• 52:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Go for first down on on fourth down, don't go for for first down as much as they should. Because of course, sometimes you're not going to make it, but the times you do, some fraction of those go on to score. You can do that statistically.

• 53:11Speaker 06

  Right.

• 53:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So but it's against the coach's feeling that that's the case. If you read the data. And you have your background in math and statistics and and analysis in ways that others don't. And the whole league recognize you as one of the top five smart people. Can you walk up to the coach and say, Coach, no, no, I've read the math on this. Your your hunch is wrong. I'm going to do the play the way the statistics takes it. Is that a real conversation that can happen?

• 53:38Speaker 06

  Oh, uh, it'd be probably be a very one sided conversation. I I don't know if it would even be. Met with the response, but going going back to what we were just talking about the momentum. So. Fourth down in a football game, if you go for it is a very. Uh, huge potential momentum swing. If you get it, it's great for you. If you don't get it, then all of a sudden. It's the other way. And so I think more so than just. Um, you know, the data, the statistics, the probabilities, um. There's probably a little bit more to it and and maybe that's that. Gut instinct or feeling that a coach has.

• 54:15Chuck Nice?

  You know, you spoke to that a little earlier, Coach, uh, about those fourth down situations and how you use big data. Um, but um, i- i- is is there anything specific that you'd like to add to that in terms of what your? Game day decisions will be and how they relate to the data that you're being given in real time?

• 54:34Speaker 09

  Uh, no, I'll prepare just kind of the analytic end of it. I'll evaluate my team. What do I think we can do against an opponent? And then adjust as as time goes on. Hey, we think we're more physical and man, we're getting whipped today. Uh, the play selection may may change or the the call may change. You know, we're not on and they we're not executing the way that we need to. And I think that's the human element that can never be replaced. I don't think you go absolutely by the book. But I think the book can a- a- help you on occasion. And I think the the most successful. coaches will have that combination. Uh, you, you, you know, the data, you know, the stats, uh, you're prepared mentally going into a ball game, then you read your players, you read the weather, uh, you read the, the momentum and the energy and you make a decision based on that.

• 55:17Chuck Nice?

  So what you're saying basically is we're never going to have an artificial intelligence head coach of a football game, of a football team. That's, that just can't happen. You, you, you have job security. I mean, he said, really?

• 55:31Speaker 09

  Or him all fooled, one of the two.

• 55:34Chuck Nice?

  There you go.

• 55:36Gary O'Reilly?

  Because coaching the end, a laptop never won a game. Am I right?

• 55:40Speaker 09

  Exactly right.

• 55:41Chuck Nice?

  There you go.

• 55:42Gary O'Reilly?

  Coach Stevens, it's been an absolute honor, sir. Thank you and the best of luck to you and yours at Dartmouth College.

• 55:47Chuck Nice?

  Thanks so much, coach.

• 55:48Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, that's fabulous.

• 55:49Speaker 09

  You guys are the best. Thanks. Thank you for having me.

• 55:52Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, you are welcome.

• 55:53Chuck Nice?

  Please come back. Please come back and talk to us.

• 55:55Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay. So that's our little insight into technology and football.

• 55:57Chuck Nice?

  Oh my God. Fascinating stuff, man. Like super cool. Like now, you know, here's the thing, I've, I would feel a little better about being on the sideline, uh, because I could never be on the field, but I think I could actually help a team win. Like, you know, without pom poms, which is what I normally do.

• 56:12Gary O'Reilly?

  It's gonna take a while for me to get rid of that image. Uh, I'm Gary O'Reilly.

• 56:18Chuck Nice?

  Short shorts and pom poms.

• 56:19Gary O'Reilly?

  He's the guy with the pom poms.

• 56:21Chuck Nice?

  You know, you want it.

• 56:22Gary O'Reilly?

  And this has been Playing with Science. And before we go, remember, a laptop never won a game of football. Or will it? Never know.