Exciting Times for Science

Brilliant scientific discoveries and cutting edge technology have transformed our world, yet many people are turned off by science. Where has the excitement for science gone, and how can we get it back? Stephen Colbert developed an interest in science at a young age, and now he shares that fascination by inviting scientists to appear on his show The Colbert Report. NOTE: All-Access subscribers can listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/all-access/exciting-times-science/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

  Our universe is filled with secrets and mysteries, leaving us with many questions to be answered. Now, more than ever, we find ourselves searching for those answers as the very fabric of space, science, and society are converging. Here, for the first time, these worlds collide. As we give you the knowledge that breaks the barrier between what is science and what is merely pop culture, this is StarTalk.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  Now, here's your hosts, astrophysicist Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson and comedian Lynn Koplitz. StarTalk.

• 0:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome back to StarTalk. I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson, astrophysicist, with my co-host, comedian, actress Lynn Koplitz. Lynn?

• 0:58Speaker 03

  Hi!

• 0:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome back. We missed you last week.

• 1:01Speaker 03

  I missed you guys. I was in Pittsburgh.

• 1:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I had to find a co-host. I don't know if that was even possible, but we found one of my colleagues.

• 1:07Speaker 03

  I heard he was very, very funny.

• 1:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, he's a great guy. He's from Kentucky. He's a Kentucky astrophysicist.

• 1:12Speaker 03

  Oh, I love Kentucky. Another astrophysicist.

• 1:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're out there. You can't escape us.

• 1:18Speaker 03

  And you just got him falling out of your bomb.

• 1:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You cannot escape us. We are everywhere. You're listening to StarTalk. Our toll-free number is 1-877-5-Star-Talk. We'll be with you for the next hour. Lynn, today's subject is really just about science and trying to get people excited about it, because that's something that hasn't been the case all along.

• 1:37Speaker 03

  Well, Neil, I mean, I'm warming up to science, I have to tell you, now that I'm working with you and you're making it much more approachable for me, but you're not the warmest group of people, scientists.

• 1:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, what we try to do is at least try to find sort of benchmarks of occasions to remind people of the value of science. Right now is like the 40th anniversary of the Hubble landing, and science does make the news, and so, but I agree, we're not always warm, but...

• 2:03Speaker 03

  No, not only not warm, you're also kind of boring sometimes. I mean, honestly, there are two kinds... Remember, science teachers when you were in school? There were two kinds of science teachers. There was you. The science teacher that was exciting and you have, we're making volcanoes and doing all sorts of cool stuff and you know, and then there was a Bueller, Bueller, that kind of science teacher.

• 2:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I remember him from Ferris Bueller's Bueller.

• 2:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, but there was that, that was like the science teacher, like the guy who stood and did the Pythagorean theorem for an hour and you were like, who is this?

• 2:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So what you're saying is, science, you're realizing scientists might, that science itself might be intrinsically interesting, but the people who delivered it to you were not. And therefore left you in the cold, that's what you're saying.

• 2:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, and now I actually watched Nova the other time, when there was a real, the other day, when there was a Real Housewives marathon on. Do you know how amazing that is?

• 2:51Speaker 03

  That is not normal for me to do that.

• 2:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, is that because you've changed or because our delivery products have changed?

• 2:56Speaker 03

  No, because, I've changed because you are making science more approachable and interesting to me. Most of the time, it's not, and not to be mean, but when I'm at your office sometimes, some of your colleagues.

• 3:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, okay.

• 3:10Speaker 03

  Come by.

• 3:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm-hmm, they do.

• 3:11Speaker 03

  And with their Spock ears and their weirdness.

• 3:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, they don't always wear their Spock ears, that's for.

• 3:16Speaker 03

  No, but I can see it, I can see past their normal.

• 3:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You see the tan line around where the Spock ear goes.

• 3:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, and my point is, is that, is that scientists speak in a jargon sometimes, that's like, not approachable and almost elitist.

• 3:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, well, but to each other, you can't, what else can you expect?

• 3:35Speaker 03

  No, they do it to the regular people like me, like, it's like going to France, like, have you ever been to France?

• 3:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:41Speaker 03

  Like, I went to France and you try, I would try to understand them, like, Marie Stebeck, no, espèce, you're saying it wrong. And it's like, oh, okay, you know what, how about I leave and I take my tourist money with me, you freak? That's what, that's what I'm, and it bothers me because I feel like my nieces.

• 3:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So the scientists are like the French, this is your.

• 3:58Speaker 03

  The scientists are like, yeah, and I don't think that they're being, that, that, I just think science needs some sort of makeover and a publicist.

• 4:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Interesting. Interesting, so you think the entire enterprise of science could benefit from like a marketing agency that worked with it at every turn?

• 4:15Speaker 03

  No, because I'm saying like I'm watching Nova the other day and Nova's not a terribly sexy show, I mean, when you're on it it is, but my point is-

• 4:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, that's so nice of you.

• 4:23Speaker 03

  But my point is, is that it usually, it's no Discovery show, it's no like, there's no Deadliest Catch, there's no Ghost Hunter.

• 4:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, okay, so you need to think-

• 4:33Speaker 03

  Nova's like, facts.

• 4:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, but here's the problem, scientists are not trained to be storytellers, we're not trained to be funny, you're trained to be, we're not trained to be any of those things, we're trained to be inquisitive on the frontier of our understanding of the cosmos, that's all we're trying to do, so, so, there are others that try to help us out, there are like journalists occasionally do this, there's science writers, we can't do it all, I think that's, it's-

• 4:57Speaker 03

  Well, you know what, if you want the public to give you money, so you can do your little experiments, then you need to be approachable and you need to be able to speak so that we can understand you.

• 5:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I wish I could argue against that, I can't, I'm just saying that, that, I'm just saying that we're not trained for that, now, fortunately, we have some journalists who are very nice to scientists, one of whom is Stephen Colbert, you know, I've been on his show six times, six times.

• 5:22Speaker 03

  You have?

• 5:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 5:24Speaker 03

  And I've been on it, none, thanks Stephen.

• 5:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, I don't, I don't get big headed about it, because I know he's actually had other scientists on, so, in my last appearance, I actually snared him for a few minutes afterwards and I interviewed him about his interest in science.

• 5:37Speaker 03

  And I'm interested in hearing this.

• 5:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, let's check out, let's check out a first clip, of me interviewing Stephen Colbert on StarTalk Radio, check it out. Right now, I'm with Stephen Colbert in his office, and I think he's out of character at the moment.

• 5:51Speaker 04

  We'll find out, we'll find out, let's see how I feel about science, if I give it any credence at all, you know I'm not in character.

• 5:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Stephen, I, as of today, I've been on your show six times, now, I might otherwise get a big head about that, but I've, I've seen other scientists on your show, often, so I'm led to think that you actually have a soft spot for science, am I, am I delusional there, or what?

• 6:16Speaker 04

  I, I love science, my dad was an immunologist, and I, I, I'm thrilled by science, when I was a kid, it was, education was valued in my house, and, and because I was the son of an academic and, and someone who was a medical researcher, science was number one.

• 6:38Speaker 04

  Though we're also a very devout family, too. Like, my mother is sort of mystical Catholic. My father's sort of intellectual Augustinian or, you know, like Aquinian Catholic.

• 6:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But you understood the value of science in your life and in society?

• 6:53Speaker 04

  Absolutely. I mean, yes, absolutely. My father, no fan of herbal medicine. No, repeatable results. Repeatable results. That was the mantra.

• 7:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So are you a science geek or just a science enthusiast?

• 7:09Speaker 04

  I'm a complete geek, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't give myself the honor of calling myself a science geek because I think you have to have more knowledge of science. I have appreciation for science. I really, I love hearing scientists talk. I love, I love, I love new discoveries. I love people who are full of questions at all times.

• 7:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I think you've transformed the landscape of comedic talk shows or talk shows at all. The fact that you recognize scientists as having a role in the dialogue of how, what drives the nation.

• 7:40Speaker 04

  Well, science is hard. Let me put it that way. Unless you approach it, I think, from what I know, unless you approach it with joy and fascination and drive and all of those things hint to me that the things that scientists are trying to explain to us must be pretty interesting. And so I take them at their word and I have them on to try to explicate that. Open the rosebud of their knowledge or their desire in front of us so that we can see the beauty of the rose ourselves, if you know what I mean.

• 8:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's beautiful.

• 8:14Speaker 04

  Thank you. A very beautiful, beautiful mind. What a beautiful mind.

• 8:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, I don't, I don't want to put you on the spot like asking you to pick your, your favorite children, but among all of the, the frontiers of science, which science, which branch of science excites you most?

• 8:30Speaker 04

  It's astrophysics, Neil. Stop fishing. It's astrophysics. It kind of is astrophysics. It kind of is astrophysics because it asks such enormous questions, you know, the, the, the, the.

• 8:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you're not just saying that because I'm sitting here right next to you?

• 8:47Speaker 04

  Of course I am. But I also mean it. You know, I, I, I love like, uh, first questions. Why are we here? Or rather, how are we here? And then you can obviously interpret your why, but the how, the how are we here question is, is enormous and, and fills us with awe. And, and that is certainly a cosmologist, a natural physicist approach those things.

• 9:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And that's what we do is we live that, we live that.

• 9:14Speaker 04

  Uh, that, that's, there's, it's a, it's a high calling.

• 9:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Stephen Colbert, he's a cool dude, isn't he?

• 9:20Speaker 03

  See, you need more Stephen Colbert's in the science world. You really do because he is, he's sexy and he's charming, but he was raised by a scientist. So he speaks your language.

• 9:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So that's, that's different.

• 9:32Speaker 03

  That's my whole point is science needs a makeover. You need Queer Eye for the science guy.

• 9:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, he also made a good point that he recognizes that there are these deep fundamental questions out there that we all have. You know, when I sit out under the stars, I am not alone. Well, I'm not alone in my thoughts.

• 9:47Speaker 03

  In your thoughts.

• 9:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  When I sit out under the stars.

• 9:49Speaker 03

  You're totally alone.

• 9:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What do you say? Where did I come from? Where does, where does, where did it all begin? Where's it going? And, but science is more than just the deep questions. It's also practical things like cell phones and the internet and.

• 10:02Speaker 03

  Well, what he said, excuse me, what he said that I really touched me again as someone who's not a science person, so to speak, is repeatable results.

• 10:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes.

• 10:11Speaker 03

  Like, I think that's a very interesting thing to say to a little kid. You know, because I think, I think a lot of people do look up and wonder where.

• 10:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:18Speaker 03

  You know, I think, I think even small children, my nieces ask those questions, but they're not given many different answers. They're given like a Christian response or not, not, well, you could be here because of this, or you could be here because of that, like.

• 10:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, okay, so, but what happens when they become adults? Cause I know that when you're a kid, everybody's curious and the recent survey asked adults, could they name some major scientific advances? And people could hardly do it. Uh, Lynn, can you name three sci- three, three scientific, major scientific?

• 10:44Speaker 03

  Yes, I can.

• 10:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, all right, go for it. I'm, I'm counting.

• 10:48Speaker 03

  How about, uh, the atom bomb?

• 10:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay. Well, I, I think of E equals M C squared, which led to the atom bomb.

• 10:54Speaker 03

  Okay, see, that's what I'm talking about, about talking, uh, Neil, Neil.

• 11:00Speaker 03

  Seriously?

• 11:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What?

• 11:01Speaker 03

  I'm not kidding, people listening, tell, they'll call in if you think that Neil is talking to the, the, the, the.

• 11:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What? Okay.

• 11:09Speaker 03

  And no, E equals M C.

• 11:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm just, you, I, I just want to say that yes, scientists invented the atom bomb, but the, the science of the atom bomb came many, many years, a whole generation before the atom bomb, just wanted to make that clear.

• 11:23Speaker 03

  Okay, then, well then make it clear.

• 11:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 11:25Speaker 03

  Don't be a snooty snoo- ex-snoo- by telling me, "Oh, when you say atom bomb, I think E equals M C squared."

• 11:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, next, next.

• 11:33Speaker 03

  That's like going to the gym and I'm doing weights and you walk over to me and go, "You know, you really should do more weights." You know what? Go to hell. I'm not doing anything now.

• 11:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That was Lynn Koplitz on StarTalk.

• 11:43Speaker 03

  Did I, then I'm, am I in trouble because I said that curse word?

• 11:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  1-877-5-Star-Talk. So Lynn, that was one. That was one. Give me another, give me another.

• 11:51Speaker 03

  Okay, I'm sorry, I bring it down to a really basic, too basic level.

• 11:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:55Speaker 03

  Okay, another, uh, DNA.

• 11:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  DNA, good, good. That was mid-century, mid, mid 20th century, DNA, understanding the-

• 12:02Speaker 03

  And that's huge.

• 12:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Huge, huge, Nobel Prize and everything.

• 12:04Speaker 03

  I mean, people are being, like, all cold case files and things are being, and remember, all my knowledge of anything is from television, we must remember that.

• 12:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And, and DNA, some would say it got out of hand. I just, I recently read that there's a company, RNL Bio, that will clone your pet for 150 grand. You, you have a dog, I think, right? What do you own?

• 12:23Speaker 03

  Really? I do have a Yorkie.

• 12:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You have a Yorkie? Would you fork up 150 grand?

• 12:28Speaker 03

  And he bites me whenever I leave and he barks, he's abusive, I feel like My Name Is Luca.

• 12:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But people worry about the, this gone awry, just our understanding of our genetic identity.

• 12:38Speaker 03

  Well, wait a second though. If they clone him, will he be the same dog?

• 12:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, he won't have the same life experience, but he'll be genetically identical, but his behavior might still be modified because he's-

• 12:46Speaker 03

  So he could be evil.

• 12:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He would be genetically identical, and to the extent the genes affect behavior, that would show up in his genes.

• 12:54Speaker 03

  Now, can you do that to a baby? Can you have your baby cloned? Like in that movie?

• 12:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I don't see why not. I mean, that, there's nothing stopping that from being in our future. So DNA's a big one, give me another one.

• 13:02Speaker 03

  Wait, wait, wait, I'm one more question. Like that movie, Gattaca, like, could you make your baby the way you wanted it? Like, you wanted a blue-eyed baby?

• 13:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, that one was, Gattaca was different. I remember Gattaca. That wasn't, they weren't creating any baby they wanted. They looked at all of the genetic variation within the couple-

• 13:15Speaker 03

  Oh, that's right.

• 13:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And they picked from that variation the baby that they wanted.

• 13:18Speaker 03

  And then they got rid of the ones that had, like, if you had asthma, you were like a janitor.

• 13:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, no, no, no asthma, right.

• 13:23Speaker 03

  Remember that? You were like a janitor.

• 13:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that was a spooky movie, I remember that. Low budget. Uh, sci-fi horror movie.

• 13:29Speaker 03

  What I didn't like about that is what's wrong with being a janitor? It's not really an awful, that's a good job, man.

• 13:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, janitor's cool.

• 13:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, people leave you alone, you do your own thing. How about vaccines?

• 13:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Vaccines is a good one. That's a good one. There are a whole lot of people alive today that would have been dead at any other generation were it not for vaccines.

• 13:43Speaker 03

  And this is what I'm talking about.

• 13:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 13:45Speaker 03

  And my sister gets upset when I talk to my nieces like this. But this is the kind of thing where I'm like, you know, that flu you have, if this was like a hundred years ago, you could have died from that.

• 13:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 13:55Speaker 03

  And my sister's like, don't tell them that. I'm like, why? They should know what science plays in their life.

• 14:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's right.

• 14:00Speaker 03

  They should know that, that penicillin was found on moldy bread.

• 14:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.

• 14:05Speaker 03

  I mean, there could be some weevil in my, you know, rice right now that could save, you know, be the cure for some strand of cancer.

• 14:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And that's why the frontier of science always looks scary to people, but down the line, people always find ways to bring it back home and bring it into your living room. It's not only that, you know, with DNA and, and genetic modifications of food, the whole, the French, getting back to the French.

• 14:28Speaker 05

  Maybe a little bit.

• 14:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's your imitation of every French person.

• 14:32Speaker 05

  Don't talk about me, Neil. I'm French.

• 14:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You know what they call genetically modified food? They, they call them Frankenfood. What they don't know is, what they don't know is most of the produce.

• 14:43Speaker 03

  What is genetically modified food? I don't even know what that is.

• 14:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, well, sort of any, any food, any food that is not drawn from nature.

• 14:50Speaker 03

  Oh, like square tomatoes?

• 14:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, of course.

• 14:52Speaker 03

  I love that stuff.

• 14:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Fine, yeah, but so, so, but they don't. They want, they want to go back to nature. What they don't understand is that there's a lot of stuff in nature that'll kill you. There's a lot of stuff in nature that is not good for you, make you sick, and this stuff protects the food. I mean, it's, it's science in the service of human interest.

• 15:07Speaker 03

  I'm so glad you said that, because I have a girlfriend that always goes to holistic places for medicines.

• 15:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:12Speaker 03

  And I said to her, and I'm like, you know what? You gotta be careful what you mix with stuff, because hemlock and white oleander are natural.

• 15:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Natural, and they'll, they'll kill you.

• 15:20Speaker 03

  And they'll kill you.

• 15:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, everything, everything natural is not good.

• 15:23Speaker 03

  Isn't that the truth? That's why I get Botox.

• 15:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Now, here's what's interesting.

• 15:27Speaker 03

  And that is good.

• 15:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Is that why your, your face hasn't budged all day today?

• 15:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, I got it, my birthday's next week, so I had to get it in time for it to kick in.

• 15:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Lynn, we gotta get back to this.

• 15:38Speaker 03

  Thanks, Neil.

• 15:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're, you're listening to StarTalk. I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson, and you've just been hearing Lynn Kopelitz comment on her recent Botox. This is StarTalk. Give us a call at 1-877-5-Star-Talk. We'll take a break and be right back.

• 15:53Speaker 00

  Where you're a space cadet. Or a rocket scientist.

• 15:59Speaker 00

  We want to hear from you. The phone lines are open. Call now. This is StarTalk.

• 16:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're back. I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson, with my co-host, Linne Koplitz. You're listening to StarTalk. Give us a call at 1-877-5-Star-TALK if you have a comment about what science has meant in your life. Is it...

• 16:23Speaker 03

  Or what excites you?

• 16:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, what excites you? Is it making you suffer? Is it making you... Giving you dates? What's it doing for you?

• 16:31Speaker 03

  What science breakthroughs do you appreciate?

• 16:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, Linne, let me just ask you. The science... A lot of people don't like science because they're afraid that it's going to bring an end to the world and they're campaigning against it and...

• 16:45Speaker 03

  Really?

• 16:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You know?

• 16:46Speaker 03

  Is that really true?

• 16:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes!

• 16:47Speaker 03

  People don't like science?

• 16:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, yes. They say science is bad and they want to go back to nature and I've, you know, and so there may be some...

• 16:57Speaker 03

  No, I understand. I think there might be sci... No, I think there might be scientists that might regret some of the things that they've discovered, don't you think? I mean, I think...

• 17:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's an excellent point. I don't... I wonder.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  Like the atom bomb lady?

• 17:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, at least might not. Yeah, she was part of that whole sort of atom bomb community.

• 17:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's true. Maybe some of them...

• 17:15Speaker 03

  She might look back and be like, "Eh, that was not a good one. I probably could have done something else."

• 17:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, no, I'd like to draw a line in the sand between the science behind the bomb and the fact that a nation decided it wanted to build a bomb. Because scientists don't wield resources. They don't wield budget. A government wields budget. So, the scientists are splitting the atom...

• 17:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're doing their job. They're doing what they're told to do.

• 17:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They're splitting the atom, exploring what the atom is doing. And then someone says, "Hey," and scientists might have been among those, saying, "Hey, there's energy in here. We can tap it to kill people." And so then, a nation marshals resources to create the bomb. So, I can tell you that most scientists are not involved in any nefarious applications of their discoveries. Most of them. And so they're not really, because it happens later by other people.

• 18:01Speaker 03

  Okay, again nefarious, why?

• 18:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, what is nefarious? I forgot what nefarious means.

• 18:06Speaker 03

  Did you really? I love that, that just stumped you with your big mensa word.

• 18:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, no.

• 18:10Speaker 03

  And you don't know what it means.

• 18:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mensa word. I'm trying to get a good definite. Nefarious would be for evil or non.

• 18:18Speaker 03

  Oh, so for evil.

• 18:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 18:20Speaker 03

  But here's, well, the thing is, Neil, is what are you, I don't understand what you're trying to say then. You're saying that scientists, it's not their responsibility, because I think it's your responsibility to say no to something if you know that it's going to be used for bad.

• 18:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, and so you can speak up against it, the politics of it, right, but the actual, when you're on the frontier of discovery, you're not always thinking, oh, this would make a bomb. No, you're saying, I can split the atom, that's kind of cool. And later on, you say, hey, they can make a bomb of this, and you can campaign against it. Einstein campaigned against the bomb. And it was his equations that enabled it in a first place.

• 18:53Speaker 03

  But here is my whole point that I'm making on the show today about getting excited about science, people listen, call in if you agree with me. I am saying that the whole point is that people need to understand, you need to be able to talk to people so that they know what's going on. If you don't do that, if you, as a scientist, don't make sure that American people know what you're saying.

• 19:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:17Speaker 03

  Write your articles, communicate, and I don't mean in your nefarious, bam, bam, bam, bam.

• 19:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Here's what, here's what makes it harder. There are science fiction movies that take science to sort of evil, destructive, catastrophic limits. Like Terminator, that was like the machines taking over and, you know, and this has been going on from the beginning. You go back to like Frankenstein, the original story.

• 19:38Speaker 03

  I know, Neil, that's my point, is that, is that we, the people, who I'm speaking for right now, our information is misinformation. Because it's Hollywood information.

• 19:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  A lot of Hollywood information there too.

• 19:49Speaker 03

  You're talking to a woman who gets a lot of her stuff from TV.

• 19:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But it can also stimulate it in another direction. For example, getting, remember, I had an interview with Stephen Colbert for this, for this show, and he commented on science fiction.

• 20:02Speaker 03

  I'd like to know what he has to say.

• 20:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Let's see what he has to say about what role that played in his life.

• 20:06Speaker 03

  And you're bugging me right now.

• 20:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right.

• 20:08Speaker 04

  Science fiction was incredibly important to me. You know, when I was ten, I remember I had this tremendous headache one day. And I was over my brother Ed's house. I'm one of eleven kids and he's the second oldest.

• 20:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Eleven?

• 20:18Speaker 04

  I'm one of eleven children, yes. And there were certain sciences that my parents didn't practice. And I was on, lying on his bed at his house, or in a guest bedroom at his house, trying to sleep off this headache. And he was a huge science fiction fan, and he grew up in the nineteen fifties. And had all these great, original pulp, um, science fiction. And some from the sixties and seventies too. And I, I picked one of the, the, the books off the shelf. Cause it was right about head level. And it was The Long Arm of Gil Hamilton by, by Larry Niven. And I read it lying there after my headache was gone. And I was hooked. I read nothing but science fiction. And at the same time, Cosmos came out by Carl Sagan. And, um.

• 21:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So had you not gotten this headache? You might not have stared that book down to write it.

• 21:06Speaker 04

  I'd never, no, no, I would not have been captured by, um, kinda like the romance of science. If I might talk about The Dragons of Eden by, by Sagan.

• 21:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  By Carl Sagan, yeah.

• 21:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, um, um, Meditations on the Romance of Science. Isn't that what it's called?

• 21:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's the subtitle of it.

• 21:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. Uh, Dragons of Eden, Meditations, Romance of Science, which I then.

• 21:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, no, no, no, that one. Oh, no, no.

• 21:25Speaker 04

  That's Broke His Brain?

• 21:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Broke His Brain, yes, yes.

• 21:27Speaker 04

  Well, anyway, I read both of them. I read a ton of things, including Cosmos and, and some of his non, some of his fiction.

• 21:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So I'm just playing into what is a pre-existing ripe condition for you.

• 21:37Speaker 04

  Oh, gosh, yes. I mean, I, I love it. I'm completely captivated. I mean, before, uh, before I knew you, I knew you because I, I, I knew of you because I'm, I'm a huge fan. I'm a huge fan of the way you express, um, science. I showed your work to my kids, um, and, uh, I, it's distressing that Americans don't know or care enough about science. Cause when I was a child, science captivated young people because it had become, it, it was hot. It was adventurous. It was, um.

• 22:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The adventure is what I think people don't feel today.

• 22:14Speaker 04

  Maybe not. I think it's because we were promised things like the wrist televisions and the jet packs and they didn't come fast.

• 22:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And the bubble cars in there.

• 22:22Speaker 04

  Right, yeah. And the bubble cars, all that, you know. We were promised too much by the Hollywoodization of science.

• 22:30Speaker 03

  And see, now that's where I disagree with him. We were promised, we weren't promised too much. When you promise a lot, you give people a lot of hope.

• 22:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 22:38Speaker 03

  And we were promised a lot of cool things, and we have a lot of them. I was promised as a kid I would be able to talk to somebody via a viewer, that I could look at them on a telephone and be able to see them.

• 22:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Video phone.

• 22:50Speaker 03

  A video phone, that's what I'm thinking of, thank you. And that's what I, and now I can. And I can, and I don't have a full robot yet, but I can have a little robot that vacuums my house.

• 23:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The Rumba, the Rumba robot.

• 23:02Speaker 03

  And some of these other things, like flying cars. We have monorails.

• 23:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:05Speaker 03

  That's basically a flying car, but actual flying cars, I mean, we don't have, I bet we have the technology to make that, but we're not responsible enough to do it. I don't think people should be allowed to have a flying car.

• 23:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well...

• 23:17Speaker 03

  They're not doing well with street cars.

• 23:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so, by the way, we have more Stephen Colbert to come later in the show. And if you have a comment or a question, just come right on in to StarTalk. You're listening to StarTalk Radio, 1-877-5-Star-Talk. But Lynn, I'm, fine, fine. I even agree with you that a lot of the future we had imagined has come. However, I think people imagine an even greater future than we currently have. People thought we'd be living on Mars and be space traveling, going places actually, rather than driving around the block as we've been doing for 40 years. And so, around the block is just orbit around the Earth.

• 23:59Speaker 03

  I know what you mean.

• 24:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so, I think some of it got overpromised, and that may have frustrated some people. I'm just saying. And what I want to know from you is, do you think that... Science, the delivery of science needs action figures. Or can people get excited just about the ideas?

• 24:16Speaker 03

  No, I said, I think, I think science needs a makeover. I think it needs to be sexy. I think it needs to speak to the people.

• 24:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The subjects or the people themselves? That's what I'm trying to get at.

• 24:24Speaker 03

  Everything. Everything. The people and the subjects. Shows like Nova are shows that people should be watching.

• 24:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:31Speaker 03

  More than something like Deadliest Catch. I say that now, I'll never be on the Discovery Channel. I don't care. But I really believe that. But, you know, Deadliest Catch, how many times can I, oh, look, they're gonna try and catch the fish and another one went over the side? Like, you know, I mean, big deal. Like, but, but I'm watching Nova and I'm learning things about the planets and stuff that I really needed to know. So here's, what I'm saying is, is people like Al Gore and you.

• 24:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:57Speaker 03

  You know how much I learned from like An Inconvenient Truth? It's good because he's, he could speak directly to people. The reason Barack Obama is our president is because he's a straight talker. I'm sorry, but I understood him. I could understand what he meant. Bush got done talking, I, I still didn't know what the man was trying to say. His own wife didn't understand what he was trying to say. My point is, is that Barack Obama is a straight shooter. When he speaks to me, it's a straight shooter. And we need more of that in science. We need to be just spoken to, like, here's what's gonna happen. Al Gore went out there and said, look, if you don't do this, this is what's gonna happen. And this is why it's important.

• 25:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right, so it's one thing to speak, to be a straight shooter, but do you also need a hero? I'm trying to understand the difference in a, in the human emotion between being in love with an idea, a scientific idea. You gave me your list of top things, the atom bomb and DNA and, and vaccines. You didn't list people there. I didn't ask you to list people, but you recognize those ideas as important. And I'm just wondering whether people need the action-adventure science hero to become scientists? Or is the science idea enough?

• 25:59Speaker 03

  No, the idea's enough. The idea's enough. I mean, people should call in and tell us what they think too. But I, I, I think the idea's more than enough. I just think that scientists, and you keep avoiding what I am asking you and what I am saying, scientists themselves, you and your colleagues, and you do your part.

• 26:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:17Speaker 03

  Okay? But some of your colleagues don't. I'm saying it is your responsibility. You do the research, you need to share it.

• 26:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Suppose you can do research, but you're no good at sharing it.

• 26:28Speaker 03

  Well, you need to be taught, take a speech class in between your astrophysicist class is what I'm saying.

• 26:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I got you.

• 26:36Speaker 03

  That's exactly what I'm saying.

• 26:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 26:38Speaker 03

  I'm saying it's my responsibility to learn science when I'm in high school. Then why don't science students take a speech class?

• 26:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I have a more.

• 26:45Speaker 03

  A communication class.

• 26:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I have a more realistic idea. Did you know that Hollywood and the, did you know that in Hollywood and in the, what do they call them in Washington? The National Academy of Sciences have gotten together in something called the Science Entertainment Exchange. Where in Hollywood, if you want to make, if you have a script line, you can, you want to base it on science, you, on a rolodex are scientists who can help you get your science right.

• 27:12Speaker 03

  Well, you should do that. That's absolutely true.

• 27:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so there's some effort. There's some effort to, so there's some effort to make that happen.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  But we should have been doing that all along. That's my whole point.

• 27:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 27:23Speaker 03

  That's all along. We should have been doing that. Movies, like this stupid thing where Buscemi is sitting on the comet.

• 27:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, okay.

• 27:30Speaker 03

  Drilling into it. Like, that shouldn't even be out there. That can't happen. I'm not a science person. I'm watching it going, this is ridiculous.

• 27:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Historically, scientists, it's not been part of the job to share their research with the public.

• 27:40Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh, Neil, that is so not true. That is so not true.

• 27:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What? I'm telling you.

• 27:44Speaker 03

  Because Galileo wrote in Italian rather than Latin.

• 27:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, he did.

• 27:47Speaker 03

  In order to talk to people. Am I not right?

• 27:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, you're right. I stand corrected. In his case.

• 27:53Speaker 03

  No, and my, my, my whole point, this, okay, let me boil down my point.

• 27:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:57Speaker 03

  My point is, okay, fine. It bugs me that we spend, I am a Christian person who is very spiritual.

• 28:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:04Speaker 03

  But I ask myself, what would Jesus do? But I think that we should also say, what would Newton do?

• 28:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's right.

• 28:09Speaker 03

  What would, what, I think my, my, my little dorky niece should know that Einstein was kind of dorky. I think that's important. And I think when you start teaching kids stuff like that, they get excited about that. And children are our future.

• 28:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And rather than hide it from them.

• 28:22Speaker 03

  And that's how you start. You start by telling them, you know what? You doodle, we think that's weird and annoying, but Darwin doodled. And that's how he got the idea for evolution. He made, didn't he draw beaks?

• 28:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, Darwin, yeah. He went to like the Galapagos Island and studied finch beaks.

• 28:38Speaker 03

  And he just kept doodling finch beaks.

• 28:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That, that, that lit his fuse and...

• 28:43Speaker 03

  Light a fuse, Neil. That's what I'm saying. Take a break on light a fuse.

• 28:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're listening to StarTalk. We're gonna take a break and more of our interview with Stephen Colbert.

• 28:53Speaker 03

  And call us. Light a fuse. Call us.

• 28:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Light a fuse. We'll see you in a moment.

• 29:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're back in StarTalk. Neil deGrasse Tyson with you and my co-host Lynn Kopfels, professional comedian and actress Lynn. Lynn, you called me out right before the break.

• 29:22Speaker 03

  Sorry.

• 29:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Galileo, one of the most famous scientists there ever was, there ever was, took time out of his day to figure out how to talk to the masses and tell them what his ideas were that transformed the world. And he wrote in Italian. So you remember, we had that on a previous show, so.

• 29:37Speaker 03

  See, I listened. You got through to me and you lit a fuse. You got me excited. You made Galileo sexy. You brought sexy back.

• 29:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And the other, I think the other sexy characters back there, I mean, I think Magellan was pretty cool for going around the world, you know, not knowing that if he's gonna make it or where he's going.

• 29:51Speaker 03

  Sexy and courageous. I mean, that's the thing is like, I like, like, you're talking to a kid and I say we start with kids. And you had a kid who needs to be courageous about something. You say, look at Magellan. Look at Christopher Columbus. People were telling them not to do these things.

• 30:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right.

• 30:06Speaker 03

  And people were saying, it's flat, it's flat, don't go.

• 30:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, everybody had somebody.

• 30:11Speaker 03

  You will die.

• 30:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Everybody had somebody telling them not to do it, you know, the Wright Brothers, Charles Lindbergh, everybody, everybody, you know, people going to the bottom of the ocean, going up into space. That is definitely the case. But so we have the history of discoverers, adventurers, people with flames lit under them.

• 30:27Speaker 03

  But how do we have future discoverers and adventurers if we don't excite them? If we don't?

• 30:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm just glad we got Bill Nye on our speed dial here.

• 30:36Speaker 03

  Speaking of exciting.

• 30:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Bill Nye. We missed him at the top of the hour. We're gonna bring him in right now for the Nye Minute. See what he says.

• 30:44Speaker 03

  Where was he?

• 30:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  About the love of science.

• 30:46Speaker 03

  Where's Bill Nye? He's out in the sun. He's at the beach.

• 30:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Bill Nye, the Science Guy.

• 30:50Speaker 06

  Hey, hey, Bill Nye the Science Guy here. This week is the anniversary of landing on the moon. Big, important, historic things. But along with all you might hear about the moon right now, keep looking up and to the future. We continue to explore Mars, so different and so much like our world. Except for toddlers and babies, StarTalk listeners like you were alive when it was discovered that, oh, yes, there was a big bang. But not only that, the bang is bigger than anyone suspected. The universe isn't just expanding, it's accelerating. Darwin and Wallace made their discoveries without even knowing what deoxyribonucleic acid, DNA, is, let alone what it does. Now we can find the sequence of just about any organism you can shake a precisely buffered enzyme at. These discoveries are part of what I like to call the PB and J, the passion, beauty,

• 31:35Speaker 06

  and joy of science. This is what StarTalk is for, to celebrate the human need to explore, to discover, to know as best we can our place in the universe, our place among the stars. Well, here's hoping along with the moon this week, you think about the PB and J. I get a fly, Bill Nye the Science Guy.

• 31:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  PB and J.

• 31:53Speaker 03

  PB, oh, that Bill Nye.

• 31:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I feel like anyone under 10 is like peanut butter and jelly. And the Bill Nye, it's not only that, passion, beauty, and joy.

• 32:03Speaker 03

  I love that, though, but that's, you know what? I really love that. You'd think I would make fun of that, but I think that's pretty awesome, what he just said, because that's what I am saying.

• 32:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, well, how about this? So it's one, so now, one way to get people excited is to try to get scientists to get you sort of jazzed about it. But their entertainers, I think, can play their role as well. In my time with Stephen Colbert, we chatted-

• 32:23Speaker 03

  Good segue.

• 32:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, we did. We chatted about, he marshaled the Colbert Nation, his supporters, his fan base-

• 32:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  -to, to take action, to try to influence what NASA was gonna do with their next voyage to the space station. This is remarkable, that, that he would value it enough to then marshal his people, his peeps, to do this.

• 32:45Speaker 03

  But that, yeah, and I want to hear about that, because that's my whole point, is that it is our responsibility, once you know something-

• 32:53Speaker 03

  And you have a voice, like we do right now, to make that voice known and to say to people, this is really important.

• 32:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, let's go. Let's check out, picking up on my interview with Stephen Colbert in his office. You're listening to StarTalk, 1-877-5-Star-Talk. Here we go.

• 33:08Speaker 04

  On my official bio, for years, I wrote that my birthday was the day of the moon landing, just to see if anybody would ask me and see if somebody would, like, catch what day I was using. Which is, is it 24th?

• 33:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's a geek thing to do.

• 33:20Speaker 04

  24th of July?

• 33:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, 20th of July.

• 33:22Speaker 04

  20th of July. I put down 20th of July.

• 33:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's a geek thing to do.

• 33:25Speaker 04

  Oh, I'm a total geek.

• 33:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Card carrying.

• 33:27Speaker 04

  Card carrying geek. I don't remember, I don't remember Apollo 11, even though my mother swears, I was, I guess I was five. My mother swears that, no, you were up like every other child in the world, and you were in front of the TV, but I don't remember it. My first remembrance of space was the 1970 eclipse.

• 33:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Bad eclipse. Yeah, there was a couple of big eclipses then. And the 71, that's the, I think that's the Carly Simon eclipse.

• 33:54Speaker 04

  Which one? Oh, total eclipse of the sun. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 33:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Went to Nova Scotia? Right, right. That one went up to New England, but through the middle of, it would have gone up right, it would have been where you lived, right.

• 34:06Speaker 04

  Yes, I think my mother thought that when I stepped outside, my eyes would burst into flame inside my head. I think I was allowed out for like a second or something like that. I remember the launches. I remember, I remember the president welcoming people back. I ate space food sticks, you know, from Pillsbury, I think, or Carnation, I forgot who made them. And I had little moon modules. I was thrilled. I remember we were, we were allowed the very first shuttle, when the Enterprise came off the back of the...

• 34:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The Enterprise was a non-orbiting shuttle. It was just to test the aerodynamics of it.

• 34:42Speaker 04

  Exactly. And so NASA threw a bone to the geek, the Star Trek fans, and called it Enterprise.

• 34:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We were all impressed by how much you were able to mobilize the Colbert Nation to vote on your behalf for the space station. And I looked up the numbers. You had five times the number of votes than the next highest vote-getting name for the space station module. So, this is impressive. It's a little scary, actually.

• 35:08Speaker 04

  Well, all I can say is, whatever the next one was, like harmony or cooperation or something like that, they need to get a legion of rabid fans. They need a, they need a, a, a robot army to attack people like I have.

• 35:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But did that response surprise you, or did you, because they could follow-

• 35:24Speaker 04

  No, I'm not. I am, I am, I have tremendous faith in the nation. And I'm like, I was surprised in 2006, when we got, um, uh, 15 million votes for the bridge over, uh, the Danube in Hungary, to be named after me, when there are only 10 million people in Hungary. That surprised me a little bit. But once, once we achieved that, I thought like, I better be careful where I point this.

• 35:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So it also means you, you can, you have the power to affect change in society that others wouldn't. So you could use sort of the humanitarian aspect of yourself to, to do that, one day, perhaps.

• 35:58Speaker 04

  If my character weren't hideously selfish, that would work out. But unfortunately, everything is just related to, "He's the most insecure person." Let me show what I just got. And I'm sure this will play beautifully on the radio. But this is the patch. I'm holding the patch that is actually going to be put on the, um, what's called the Colbert, the Combined Operational Load-Bearing External Resistance treadmill, which is-

• 36:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So this is the treadmill that got named after you as a consolation for NASA-

• 36:27Speaker 04

  Lying to me. After NASA lied to me and America and broke their own rules, so much for scientists, they named the, a new treadmill after me, which is being launched in August. And I hope to go down there for lunch. But I just looked at this treadmill, and it's a, it's a little cartoon of me and my head on top of the cartoon, running on a treadmill, and around it has my name, as all things must for my character. And I saw this today, and I thought, my goodness, is he insecure? Does he need reaffirmation at all times? And that's why he'll never achieve anything good, because it always has to be about him.

• 37:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So going forward, you're not without power of influence of people's feelings and moods.

• 37:04Speaker 04

  I am enormously powerful, Neil.

• 37:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, your character is.

• 37:08Speaker 04

  That's true. That's true. I forgot.

• 37:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're the geek. Your character's got the power.

• 37:15Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 37:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So we're, what do you think you can do going forward? We all know what the rest of us can do, but you have a unique platform.

• 37:23Speaker 04

  I actually, I, I, I love having scientists on, and-

• 37:29Speaker 04

  If I can have them on and add comedy to the fascination of their subject, then, well, that's just a honey ball that might make people swallow what I think is the real treat, which is excitement and engagement by questioning the world around you. Because, "Oh, the world is so full of a number of things. I think we should all be as happy as kings." And all you have to do is look for the question that you want to ask about the natural world around you. And, well, then, you are given the gift of a lifetime of entertainment and enjoyment just by being alive.

• 38:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Stephen Colbert, thanks for being on StarTalk.

• 38:15Speaker 04

  Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you.

• 38:18Speaker 03

  I adore him. I adore him because he just capsulized what I'm saying this whole show.

• 38:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It sounds like you have a crush on him.

• 38:25Speaker 03

  No, I do have a crush on him, but I also have a crush on what he's saying. Because I think, I don't have children. I have nieces and a couple of nephews I don't like too much.

• 38:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And a dog.

• 38:34Speaker 03

  But my dog. But when I was a kid, do you know, I vividly remember being fascinated with sea monkeys.

• 38:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Really?

• 38:41Speaker 03

  Now I know that they're brine shrimp. But at the time, I didn't. You know, on the box, you grew them into people. And that's science. You know, that was it. I wanted to grow my own little people. I wanted to know how you did that. And there was a wonder and an excitement when you're a child. And as you get older, it wears off. That wonder and excitement for science can wear off.

• 39:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Somebody's got to keep the flame lit.

• 39:03Speaker 03

  If you don't have a father who's a scientist, like he did, like you have in your, like your children have, then it can wear off. And I'm saying it's important to nurture that enthusiasm in children so that it keeps going.

• 39:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, I have a slightly different view. I think it's important to nurture that in adults where it's all worn out. Because kids, it's there.

• 39:23Speaker 03

  But it won't be worn out anymore.

• 39:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, okay. Keep it going.

• 39:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, and ignite it in adults.

• 39:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, right.

• 39:29Speaker 03

  And then nurture it in children and say things like, "We're beatable results." Like, I think that's awesome. I'm going to say that all the time.

• 39:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We've got a caller who has a comment, I think, about what scientists look like to others. Is that Lynn calling from Boston?

• 39:41Speaker 03

  Oh, another Lynn.

• 39:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Lynn, you're not the only Lynn in the universe.

• 39:44Speaker 03

  This is too many Linds for you to handle. Hello, Lynn?

• 39:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Lynn, are you there? You're live on StarTalk. Did we lose Lynn? I think we lost Lynn.

• 39:55Speaker 03

  Lucky for you, you had a backup.

• 39:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'll go to my backup Lynn.

• 39:59Speaker 03

  You have another Lynn. You cloned me.

• 40:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Lynn, let me ask you, what, what, so you, it all excites you and it all excites Stephen Colbert. So what, so what's, the problem here is we're missing a link between the, the sort of the majesty of that frontier and the emotions of the public. And your solution was make it a, a, a marketing campaign.

• 40:23Speaker 03

  My solution is, yes. Why not? Do that. Do public service announcements where you have sexy people getting out there saying, "Why are we here?"

• 40:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We have a little bit of that because there's TV, hit TV shows like CSI that have sexy chemists.

• 40:36Speaker 03

  But why not do public service announcements? "Why are we here? Why do we dream?" And then have a scientist like yourself come out and give the answer.

• 40:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's a brilliant idea. I'll, I'll, I'll bring it, I'll, I'll raise it with the authorities.

• 40:47Speaker 03

  We, we do things where we let, but we do things where we let children, um, like it's, when I was a kid, a science fair was an awesome thing.

• 40:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

• 40:55Speaker 03

  So why don't we do, you know, more of that? Why don't we do national science fairs and, and make big things about them?

• 41:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so I think the problem is, science fairs are only right now attracting the people who already know they're interested in science. And they're not igniting flames within those who never knew any different.

• 41:08Speaker 03

  Right. We have America's Got Talent. I say, "National Science Fair." Make that a, a, a new TV show. A new primetime TV show. Everyone comes on with their science, with their new science invention.

• 41:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And we get Simon to ju, Simon to judge them.

• 41:20Speaker 03

  You and I'll judge it.

• 41:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right, Lynn, we're gonna go to break. This, uh, we'll be right back with StarTalk. If you have something to say to us, tell us at 1-877-5-Star-Talk.

• 41:31Speaker 03

  You've got something to say to us?

• 41:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're also online at StarTalkRadio.net. See you in a moment.

• 41:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're back to StarTalk. I'm your host Neil deGrasse Tyson, astrophysicist, with my co-host, comedian and actress Lynn Copeland. Lynn?

• 42:00Speaker 03

  Hello.

• 42:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  How are you Lynn?

• 42:03Speaker 03

  I'm fine Neil, how are you?

• 42:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Call us at 1-877-5-Star-Talk if you have a question about the role of science in your life. Has it transformed you or just messed you up?

• 42:14Speaker 03

  No.

• 42:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Which is, I think we got-

• 42:16Speaker 03

  Do you think it messes people up?

• 42:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Alright, well no, I think we got Nick in LA. Is that you Nick?

• 42:20Speaker 07

  Yeah, hi.

• 42:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Nick, welcome to-

• 42:22Speaker 07

  Nice talking to you.

• 42:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome to StarTalk. What do you got for us?

• 42:24Speaker 03

  Hi Neil.

• 42:25Speaker 07

  Well, I loved science ever since I was in high school and I took science for the four years that I was there.

• 42:30Speaker 03

  What got you?

• 42:31Speaker 07

  I always stayed with it.

• 42:32Speaker 03

  Nick, what first got you?

• 42:33Speaker 07

  What got me?

• 42:34Speaker 03

  What's the first thing that excited you about science?

• 42:37Speaker 07

  E equals mc squared.

• 42:38Speaker 03

  What do you know?

• 42:39Speaker 07

  And the relativity. Because Einstein has always been fascinating to me and when they were gonna select him for the Time Magazine, the best 20th century man?

• 42:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 42:53Speaker 07

  I said, "They're gonna pick Einstein." And they did.

• 42:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And they did.

• 42:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:56Speaker 07

  And I love that. So I've always been fascinated with science.

• 42:58Speaker 03

  That's awesome, I have goosebumps, that's cool.

• 42:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  She does have goosebumps, I'm looking at them on her arm.

• 43:01Speaker 03

  No, I think that's really cool. Okay, so what was your question, I'm sorry for that question.

• 43:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, no, I think he's just sharing the story with us, right?

• 43:07Speaker 07

  Yeah, I just wanted to share the story and I love listening to Neil and I enjoy his shows on Nova and I'm so glad that you're on on Sundays and I'm listening to you right now.

• 43:17Speaker 03

  Nick, you don't like me? Or you like listening to Neil?

• 43:20Speaker 07

  Well, I do like-

• 43:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You got her started.

• 43:22Speaker 07

  I don't know you.

• 43:23Speaker 03

  You gotta start listening to the show!

• 43:25Speaker 07

  You're still learning about science.

• 43:27Speaker 03

  I'm at the dinner party though!

• 43:28Speaker 07

  Oh, that's good. No, I'm loving both of you in the feedback.

• 43:32Speaker 03

  Thank you sir, oh thank you so much for your warm, honest response.

• 43:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Alright, a quick question back to you. Nick, so you were not interested as a little kid, but in high school you're kind of older by then, right?

• 43:42Speaker 07

  Uh, yeah.

• 43:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, okay, so it took a little, few more years for you.

• 43:45Speaker 03

  Did you have a cool science teacher?

• 43:47Speaker 07

  I loved taking it every semester that I had it and I just kinda followed it all along and I read some of Einstein's works and I got fascinated with-

• 43:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Plus relativity's freaky, right? I mean it's freaky stuff, yeah, yeah.

• 43:58Speaker 03

  Nick, did you have a cool science teacher? Cause I was saying to Neil, have you been listening to this show today? I was saying that, you know, if you don't have a cool science teacher, then you're not ignited by science.

• 44:09Speaker 07

  Well, you know what? I didn't.

• 44:12Speaker 03

  Really?

• 44:12Speaker 07

  But somehow, I just got fascinated with it.

• 44:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so something hits you.

• 44:15Speaker 07

  It caught my interest.

• 44:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Something hits you, yeah.

• 44:17Speaker 07

  Yeah. It just caught my interest and I've been staying with it ever since. I've been following you all along. I love the Carl Sagan series and now I get to watch Neil and I get to learn all about black holes and everything.

• 44:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We got a science junkie on the line here.

• 44:28Speaker 03

  Thank you so much. Please, please listen to us again next Sunday, Nick.

• 44:32Speaker 07

  Yeah, thank you.

• 44:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right, Nick. Thanks for calling in. We got another caller. I think it's Lynn from Boston. Is that you on the line, Lynn?

• 44:37Speaker 03

  Oh, she's back. Hi, Lynn.

• 44:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, Lynn, is that you on the line? You're live on StarTalk.

• 44:47Speaker 03

  Hey Lynn, are you on the speakerphone and are you drunk?

• 44:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, well...

• 44:54Speaker 03

  If she's drunk, well, that's good. We're reaching my people.

• 44:59Speaker 03

  Finally!

• 45:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right.

• 45:00Speaker 03

  My people are tuning in.

• 45:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I don't know how many, how many chances we'll give Lynn.

• 45:04Speaker 03

  Ah, yeah!

• 45:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right, let's go to... Let's... This is StarTalk. We're talking about science in your life. Let's go to Gary in LA. Uh, Gary, you there?

• 45:12Speaker 08

  I am. Hi, guys.

• 45:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Ah, you're live.

• 45:14Speaker 03

  Hi, Gary.

• 45:15Speaker 08

  I'm on the show.

• 45:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Live on StarTalk.

• 45:17Speaker 08

  Um, you've been discussing the developments in science. I'm just wondering, what is about to come for us now? Is it genetics? Is it engineering? What's the next big thing? Science is gonna deliver average guys like me.

• 45:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Excellent.

• 45:30Speaker 03

  I love your accent. What is the next big thing, Neil?

• 45:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, what... It's not an LA accent, apparently. Gary, where's that accent from?

• 45:37Speaker 08

  It is from the UK.

• 45:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The UK.

• 45:39Speaker 08

  But, uh, I'm over in Los Angeles and, uh, as I say, I really adore the show.

• 45:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  See, the Americans are...

• 45:43Speaker 08

  There's nothing like it on radio.

• 45:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, thank you, thank you. Americans are jealous of the accents of the UK. So, what... The next... So, science, of course, is many, many dimensions there. So, I think in, uh...

• 45:53Speaker 03

  Answer his question, Neil. What is the next best thing?

• 45:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, I'm a little biased, because I'm an astrophysicist, but I'm, I'm looking for life in the universe. If we can find life other than life on Earth, that would be extraordinary, not only in astrophysics, but in biology. Life that has its identity coded in some way other than DNA. That'd be really, really cool to know how nature figured out how to do that. That's why I'm gonna run through the list real quick. We don't know what dark matter is.

• 46:16Speaker 03

  Let me ask Gary. Gary, what would be... Excuse me. What, what would be the cool thing for you? What would you like to have discovered?

• 46:23Speaker 08

  I think I agree with Neil to find something outside of our own planet that actually is living would really kind of stop that lonely feeling that we often see to have floating around on this rock, but I'm just wondering.

• 46:35Speaker 03

  Oh, Gary wants a little alien friend.

• 46:37Speaker 08

  Yeah, maybe. I just.

• 46:40Speaker 03

  I'm looking alien friend.

• 46:41Speaker 08

  Is it something, is it a genetic development, is it something that crosses over with engineering? Do we get this sort of?

• 46:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 46:47Speaker 08

  Terminator freak show happening?

• 46:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Ooh, Terminator freak show, the intersection of genetic engineering and machine technology and computers. That's an interesting one. Science fiction writers, of course, you know, take that to the future and they have them come back and kill us all. But that's like technology gone awry. But going back quickly to science, so we don't know what dark matter is, we don't know what dark energy is, we don't know how to go from inanimate molecules to animate life molecules. We just don't, so there's huge frontiers that I think will happen in our lifetime. Plus, I want to go to Mars and I want to try to make that happen. I want to try to finish a couple more callers before we head out, but thank you very much.

• 47:25Speaker 03

  Thank you, Gary.

• 47:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Thanks.

• 47:27Speaker 08

  Thank you.

• 47:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right. Let's go to Perry in Pasadena.

• 47:29Speaker 03

  Gary wants an alien friend.

• 47:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Perry in Pasadena, are you there?

• 47:33Speaker 09

  Yes, Terry.

• 47:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, how you doing?

• 47:35Speaker 03

  Terry.

• 47:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Terry, hello.

• 47:36Speaker 09

  First of all, Neil, I really like the way you present what you really believe in.

• 47:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, thank you.

• 47:42Speaker 09

  I grew up, well, I was in high school in the early 60s in social studies. You guys mentioned this earlier. I was so excited, I was on fire for what we were going to be doing and so much of it didn't happen.

• 47:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, so you're one of the disappointed ones.

• 47:57Speaker 09

  Do you think it's possible that profit has anything to do with it? If there's not enough profit in it, they're not going to do it.

• 48:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You know, I have, I don't want to agree with that, but I think, you know, behind closed doors, I have to agree with you. The science that gets done, that gets the best funding is what somebody can make a buck off of. So it tends to be commercial products.

• 48:16Speaker 03

  What bothers me, and tell me if this bothers you too, you guys too, is that are we ever going to find a cure for cancer? So much money goes into it.

• 48:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, well.

• 48:24Speaker 03

  It almost seems like they need us not to find a cure.

• 48:27Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 48:27Speaker 03

  So they can keep making that money.

• 48:28Speaker 09

  I was thinking about it just a minute ago.

• 48:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Ooh.

• 48:29Speaker 03

  Right?

• 48:30Speaker 09

  Now, I have a theory about something here.

• 48:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, just say it quick, because we're running short on time.

• 48:35Speaker 09

  If everybody did the very best they can.

• 48:39Speaker 09

  Every moment made the very best product that they can. Wouldn't you think we would have so much more and better than what we have now if they really put everything into it?

• 48:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, I have to, I have to agree with that. If everyone were fully engaged in all what they can do best, inventing things, there'd be a completely transformed world.

• 48:58Speaker 03

  It would be a transformed world, but it wouldn't be a capitalist society. The whole point is, I mean, they have invented pantyhose that don't run, but they can't sell them because no one would buy them. You'd have to buy one pair and that'd be it.

• 49:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Lynn, tell me real quick, what's your favorite, what do you want to have happen in science? Real quick.

• 49:13Speaker 03

  From being a kid, what I always wanted?

• 49:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, real quick.

• 49:15Speaker 03

  I wanted Gilligan's Island. I wanted the food on Gilligan's Island, the giant, the giant carrot.

• 49:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I remember the giant carrot. I remember.

• 49:22Speaker 03

  And the spinach that made everyone stronger.

• 49:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You know what I wanted? I wanted my own private genie, like in I Dream a Genie.

• 49:27Speaker 03

  You and every other guy. You wanted a blonde woman stuck in a bottle, in a midriff, with a midriff show.

• 49:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We gotta go. You've been listening to StarTalk Radio.

• 49:36Speaker 03

  I can't believe it.

• 49:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Funded by the National Science Foundation. We'll see you next week when we'll celebrate the 20th, the 40th anniversary of the Apollo landing. That's StarTalk.