How to Fix Your 401(k): 25 Moves That Work Even If Your Plan Isn’t Great SB1909

Most people check their 401(k) the way they check a gas gauge: a glance, a shrug, and back on the road. Joe and OG pop the hood on the whole engine and work through 25 fixes, from a two-minute change to a phone call that could cut real money from your fees. The surprise is how many of them have nothing to do with your employer’s plan. A mediocre 401(k) can still do its job if the rest of your accounts pick up the slack, and the bar for “good enough” is lower than the internet makes it sound. What You’ll Walk Away With The one-percent move that takes two minutes, and why nobody ever misses it from a paycheckWhy risk tolerance quizzes start at the wrong end, and the math problem that should come firstHow often to rebalance, and the point where “rebalancing” quietly turns into market timingThe way almost everyone sorts their fund list, and why it nudges you into a bad habitHow to treat your accounts as one household portfolio when your 401(k) is lacklusterWhy getting more conservative as retirement nears can cost you years of compoundingA rule of thumb for company stock, and why your paycheck and your portfolio shouldn’t share the same riskWhat to do with an old 401(k) when you change jobs, and the rollover detail that makes the choice less permanent than it feelsWhat to ask your employer about fees and the match, politely and without withholding cupcakesA free tool for checking what your funds really costWhy This Matters Now Retirement accounts run on autopilot, which is both the feature and the trap. A plan set up years ago can still carry the fees and funds of that year, and the people paid to run it rarely volunteer that you’re overpaying. The good news is that none of this has a deadline, and one deliberate fix a year beats a panic overhaul. If you worry that one overlooked detail has quietly cost you money, this is a calm, checklist-style way to find it. From the Basement This one comes out of the basement vault for Greatest Hits week, so a stray reference or two may be hiding behind Joe’s mom’s water heater, but the fundamentals have held up. Doug’s trivia involves a founding father and a street sweeper, his chores keep multiplying, and his takeaway is to invest like it’s a Chicago election: early and often. Resources Mentioned Morningstar https://www.morningstar.com: free fund research on fees and performance versus peersFieldKit Finance https://fieldkitfinance.com: a way to see how all your accounts fit togetherHeard it the first time? Tell Joe what you changed at [email protected] mailto:[email protected] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:26Speaker 01

  Hey, Stackers, Joe Solcihi here. Quick question, when's the last time you actually looked under the hood of your 401k? And I don't mean checking the balance, I mean really getting in there and figuring out what's working, what could be better, and whether your money's headed the way that you want it to go. And if you're thinking, Joe, I wouldn't even know where to start, well, you're in exactly the right place because today, OG and I are going to show you how. We're talking 25 ways to fix your 401k. We're going to break them down. We're going to show you what to look for. Think of it as this guided tour under the hood of your retirement plan and no greasy hands required. Some of these fixes are going to be surprisingly easy. They're going to take you just a couple of minutes and some are going to save you some serious money.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  Sometimes it's both, by the way, and a few. Well, OG and I think some things that you hear out there are pretty bad advice and we're going to teach you where to find that. We're going to tell you why. One of my favorite lessons, though, that you're going to hear today, one I want to emphasize, is that it doesn't have to be perfect. Maybe you're like, well, Joe, I don't want to mess with my 401k because it just sucks. Well, we could actually help you prop that up because you just need it to play nicely with your other accounts. And we'll talk about how to do this, but if you think in terms of the whole picture, instead of treating every account like it's its own little island, you're going to do really, really well, even if the company you work for doesn't have the world's best retirement plan. That's why we pulled this one out of the basement vault for Greatest Hits Week.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  This aired June 10th, 2020. Think about where we were then, everybody sheltering in place, right? Not seeing our neighbors.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  We've cleared out most of those references. I went back through, but there's going to be a few, you know, maybe hiding behind mom's water heater. And some of the retirement rules have changed, but the fundamentals we're teaching, those still hold up. So here's my challenge. If you heard this episode the first time and you made changes to your 401k, I want to hear about it. I love hearing these success stories. Write me, tell me what you did and how it worked out. And if you're hearing it for the first time, or if you heard it before, but you never got her on and making changes, write me and tell me what you're pledging to tackle this time. I'm going to throw down the gauntlet. Seriously, I want to hear your stories. Joe at stackingbenjamins.com. One thing we didn't have back then was Fieldkit Finance, which we built to help you organize your financial life and see how all these pieces fit together. You'll find that at fieldkitfinance.com.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  And another quick heads up, we structured the show a little differently back then. So you're going to hear one in just a second. And then you're going to hear our next ad break near the end of the show. We actually got rid of the call-in segment because it had to do with buying, buying houses during COVID. And I don't think we need, man, I hope we don't need that advice anymore. So, all right, grab your imaginary toolbox. We're headed back into mom's basement to fix that 401k. Let's get to work. Well, you may know that chaos is the name of the game here in mom's basement, what with guests coming in and out, Cooper the cat getting in the way, Doug being, well, being Doug. The holidays make it even worse because it's all about food and big meals.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  And the problem is prepping for those takes forever. But what about those between meals, right? The meals between those huge, huge, huge bookends. Well, that's where Factor comes in. Factor is made with high-quality ingredients that you recognize and trust with over 175 banned ingredients. You always know you're eating something that's good for you, even when you don't have time. It's ready in two minutes. Whether it's lunch between meetings or dinner after holiday shopping, Factor requires zero prep cleanup or effort from you or mom, so you can focus on everything else in your day.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Factor even has heart smart options like the Green Goddess Baramundi with tomato rice, peas, kale, and green beans, or the enchilada-style chicken and sweet potatoes. Those are so good. They're crafted with lean proteins, fiber-packed fruit and veggies, and healthy fats. Try those out. Your heart and your taste buds will thank you. For Cheryl and I, Factor has been a great way for us to stay busy and focus on family life and beating mom at card games. I use Factor and you should too. So let's eat real, Stackers. Head to factormeals.com/sb50off. Use code SB50OFF. And you know what?

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• 5:15Speaker 02

  Take a deep breath. Relax. Inhale through your nose and exhale through your mouth.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  Sit back and close your eyes. Gradually release the tension, starting from your toes, working up your legs to your pelvis, and from your fingertips, slowly up your arms to your shoulders. The Stacking Benjamin Show, no matter how bad it gets, is your favorite podcast. I will count backwards from three, and when I snap my fingers, you will be overcome with delight at hearing the start of this episode. Three, two, one.

• 6:17Speaker 03

  Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show.

• 6:32Speaker 03

  I'm Joe's mom's neighbor Doug, and today we're fixing everything around the house. Like, we're going to fix that leaky faucet in the upstairs bathroom. We'll clean the screen door on the porch, and we'll also all pitch in with 25 ideas to help you fix your 401k. Plus, the English are about to clean boot Carnival Cruise Lines and EasyJet out of the FTSE, that's the FTSE 100 index. Are British people mean, or is this a good thing? We won't comment on the former, but the guys will have lots of thoughts on the latter. And of course, we'll also toss out the Haven Lifeline to AJ, who's wondering about buying some clean, beautiful property in Idaho.

• 7:14Speaker 03

  And now, two guys who never learned how to clean up their ax, it's Joe and OJ.

• 7:30Speaker 04

  Do you think Doug means ax like ax, like we've never cleaned up our axes from chopping down trees?

• 7:38Speaker 01

  Heyo, welcome to Wednesday, Strong Man Day. I'm Joe Solcihi, @EveryShowMoney on Twitter, and the guy across the card table with me who left his ax outside the door. And it's so dirty, Mr. OG.

• 7:54Speaker 04

  I don't even know what to do with that information now.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  It's just gone, man. Just absolutely gone.

• 8:00Speaker 04

  Nothing witty whatsoever to add.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  We got a great show today, OG. We're talking about fixing your 401k. And what a good time, by the way, to open up the hood on that thing. Yes, open up the hood and dig in and see if we can maybe come out here an hour later with a much better 401k. You know how you get under the hood and the engine's not running well, and then you get done an hour later and it sounds awesome? I got to say.

• 8:25Speaker 04

  Never had that experience ever in my life.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  I have never had that happen either. In fact, I've got a battery in that cheap car I bought last year. We moved to Michigan. I didn't drive the car for six months. Thing won't start. I was told my battery was bad. So I went and just got a new battery, hoping it wasn't the start of the alternator. Still can't get the thing to start, so more fun there. But OG and I might not be great with cars, but we're great at fixing your 401k. But first, we got some headlines, so let's get this party started.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  All right. Our guest today is something a little different, OG. Normally here, we'd introduce you to a person or a concept that we like. However, today we had a headline, but it was such a big headline that we wanted to spend our time. We normally have a guest on helping you fix your 401k. So today you're stuck with OG and I for the entire episode. And this, this comes to us from gobankingrates.com. If you want to follow along, head to stackyourbenjamins.com and hit up the show notes page for today. But it's written by John Cesar, 25 ways to fix your 401k before it's too late.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  Now let's talk about first, OG, this idea of before it's too late. While I agree with the sentiment that there's no day like today, I think there is some good news here, which is there isn't a deadline. If your 401k is broken, you should work on it right now.

• 10:08Speaker 04

  The opportunity exists for lots of mistakes. And also, this is where people get in trouble from a taken advantage standpoint. If you're under the impression that something needs to happen right away, then there's an opportunity to be taken advantage of. I had a plumber in my house working on some stuff and he went up in our attic. Our attic has our water heater. And he said, Hey, by the way, I said, I know the water heater. She goes, No, let me tell you about them. They're 10 years old. Here's the corrosion, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He's like, Listen, it could last another five years. It could last five more minutes. I have no idea. He wasn't really pushing us, but he wanted to make sure he got the quote

• 10:53Speaker 04

  in. You know what I mean? Like, he's like, Let me run out to my car. So why don't you just give me a card? He goes, I'll do you one better. I'll give you a quote. I wonder if he could tell that I was like, I get it. I know. We'll take a look at it or not. But if you do that with your money and you don't recognize that it doesn't actually have to be done today. Very few things from a financial standpoint have to be done this very second. You know, you have the opportunity to take advantage of. So go slow, but go.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  Amen. At the beginning of this piece, it says, although some improvements to your 401k plan can only be made by your employer, there are definitely steps you can take to improve your own personal account. If you don't like your 401k, we've talked about this a lot in the past, people suing their 401k. Sometimes, OG, you just work for a little company and they don't have a lot of resources to manage the 401k. So they outsource it, maybe not some great people. But I think, I think especially in a little company, making your voice heard if you don't have a great 401k is, is job one. And obviously do it in a polite, I want to help way. Don't do it in a, I'm gonna come unglued at everybody. And I'm never bringing cupcakes again. If you don't fix the 401k, don't do that.

• 12:03Speaker 04

  And I think the other thing to recognize too, is that there's a lot of work that goes into the 401k. People, people think about it like, Oh, it's just a collection of mutual funds or ETFs. And why the heck is it, you know, why, why has it got to cost all this money? Well, you got to remember, there's federal documents that have to get filed, tax return information that has to get filed. There's a lot of our man hours involved in terms of record keeping and, and signing off on the fact. And most of the time, if it's not a solo plan, you have a third party that's doing that. And guess what? Those, those third party professionals are professionals. And they're not going to just willy nilly sign their name to a document that they're not sure of is accurate. So they cost money. And if you're talking about a plan that's at a few employees and a few hundred thousand

• 12:48Speaker 04

  dollars of assets, there's just a flat cost that that's going to be. And sometimes the employer covers it. Sometimes the employer spreads it out across everybody. And frankly, one of the ways that makes it a little bit more tenable for employers is when they can share some of that cost with the employees by using some extra costs or internal costs on the products and things like that.

• 13:11Speaker 01

  On that side though, OG, we have seen in some of our fintech segments that price tags are coming down on, on 401k plans. And there's

• 13:21Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. If somebody has one that's really expensive.

• 13:24Speaker 04

  Companies out there that are starting to specialize in how to synthesize this a lot faster and make it a little bit easier for people. I'm not excusing it by any stretch of the imagination to say, Hey, you should have a plan with 2% funds and be okay with it. I'm just saying, that could be the reason. The other reason that happens quite often, which probably is more the case now, is the plan was set up 15 years ago when that was the norm. Here's the thing about bankers and 401k managers, they're quite reticent to remind you that you're overpaying.

• 14:00Speaker 01

  You mean, when you get a paycheck, you are disinclined to tell people that the paycheck might be a little fat?

• 14:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:07Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 14:08Speaker 04

  I mean, it just is.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  Do your own due diligence.

• 14:11Speaker 04

  Sometimes that's a responsibility, a lot, I guess, a lot that's a responsibility of the product company. A lot of it's the responsibility of the business owner and some of it's to the employees as well. But remember, what was the cost structure when it got started? And 15 years ago, it might've been fine. But now it would be woefully off. And quite often, a phone call to the product company or the provider reminds them of the value in your relationship. Maybe they would be inclined to revisit the, the pricing structure.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  Might take a look see, as mom says. We have 25 of these to go over. We'll spend some time on

• 14:52Speaker 04

  Four minutes on each one?

• 14:53Speaker 01

  On, on quite a, quite a few of them. Some of them are easy and we can just brush past. But the first one is really a big one, OG, that I think not enough people do. And that's to rebalance regularly.

• 15:06Speaker 04

  Well, I think you have to define regularly. And I would say probably the other side of that is more, oh gosh, I don't know. I wish I had the stats on this, but there is no statistical evidence for anything more frequently than once a year being effective. If it makes you happy to do it twice a year, fine. If it makes you happy to do quarterly, fine. If you're trying to do something more frequently than that, you're market timing. And you're just trying to dress it up and make it look like, but it's rebalancing. No, you're market timing. But you're right. I think, I think it does happen a lot where you just set it up and don't think about it for 15 years. And market forces being what

• 15:47Speaker 04

  they are, all of a sudden, your portfolio is out of whack. Or God forbid, you've been putting money in your fixed income fund for the last 15 years, unbeknownst to you. And then finally, somebody points out that you should be getting more than 3% a year on your portfolio. And, you know, you've got no one to blame on that but yourself.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  Rebalancing for people that don't know what this is, works how.

• 16:10Speaker 04

  Well, effectively, what you're doing is putting a system in place that allows for an automatic selling of the high stuff and buying of the low things. Investment trading is different than every other thing in the entire world in that when something goes up in your investment portfolio, you want more of it. Hey, I bought Amazon at 1,000. Now it's worth 2,000. How much more can I get? I want more.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  Because that's the good one.

• 16:36Speaker 04

  That's the better one. Yes. And this other thing that I bought that was 2,000 is now 1,000. And I don't want any more of that. And so effectively, what do you do in that? You buy high and end up selling low. And that's, that's the exact opposite of how you want to do this. So when you have a rebalancing plan, what you do is you say, Okay, I've got four funds. Each one of those are 25% of my portfolio. I'm going to allow them to wiggle around. Some days it'll be, one will be at 26%, one's going to be at 24, and that's perfectly fine. And you give yourself some wiggle room, maybe 20%. So you say, I'm at 25, I'll let it go to 30, and I'll let it go to 20. But if it goes above or below those numbers, then we've got a problem. And it just affords you the opportunity

• 17:16Speaker 04

  to have a system in place for saying, Hey, this thing now represents 32% of my portfolio. It's over what I wanted it to be. It's 7% above where I wanted to be. So I'm going to sell that thing that's gone up high. So I'm selling high. And now I'm going to turn around and buy the thing that's now at 18% of my portfolio. And I'm buying more of the stuff that's low. And if you do that systematically over time, you smooth out the ride of that kind of ups and downs of your portfolio. Or have the opportunity to do that anyway.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  And there are all kinds of charts that show this reversion to the mean, OG, meaning asset classes aren't hot forever. And that's the key to this whole thing, is that just because international funds have been on a roll for X number of years, let's say, doesn't mean they're going to stay there. And that thing that's been the dog is not going to be the dog forever.

• 18:06Speaker 04

  Well, and we see that right now with the US large companies market and specifically in technology stocks. I mean, goodness, take a look at the last 12 month return of the NASDAQ versus the S and P. And then compare that against the rest of the markets. I mean, it's very difficult to tell somebody, Hey, I know this thing is up 20% and the rest of your money is up five or down six or whatever, but you should sell it because you're going, Wait, no, no, this is the winner. I got to keep the winner. But if you have it systematically and you do it, like I said, once a year is more than adequate, it removes that ambiguity and the decision making and instead makes it a system and takes it away from trying to market time and all that sort of stuff.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  You know, this idea of rebalancing presupposes that you know what the balance is, right? Which brings up our second, our second one, which is reconcile your investment objectives and your risk tolerance. And the place that I can't stand that most people start when it comes to their retirement plans is with one of these silly retirement plan quizzes through work. And it's not that they're dumb by themselves. It's that that's generally the first thing that people see. They don't see, Hey, what goal are you trying to achieve? They see, Hey, how much risk you want to take? And there's a lot of people that get into these, get into a 401k plan, and they say, Well, I don't like taking much risk. And they're very safely not doing anything with their money.

• 19:33Speaker 04

  Well, sure. I mean, think about it this way. If you said, how much risk would you like to take on your next airplane ride? Zero. But you're doing some. You know what I mean? Like you're, you've got some sort of risk in everything that you do. You know, the biggest thing with anything associated with risk tolerance is recognizing that you're using the words incorrectly. Risk is a chance of loss. And so what percent do I want to have a chance of loss in my retirement plan? Zero. I don't want a loss in my retirement plan. What are we really talking about when we say risk tolerance? We're talking about the ups and downs, volatility, tolerance for the variability of the numbers. One day

• 20:13Speaker 04

  it says 100,000, the next day it says 90, the next day it says 110. How much anxiety does that provide for you? The problem is, is that you want the smoothest ride, but you also have the real number to get to. And I think that's your point, which is you have to start with, well, how much darn money do I have to have in the beginning? Because that will tell me how much volatility I gotta take. It's just a math problem. If I'm committing this amount of capital on a monthly basis and I need to get to this bucket on the backend and I think my money will grow at X percent, then you just have to build the portfolio to make it grow at that rate of return. You don't get to say, well, I want 10,

• 20:54Speaker 04

  but I don't want the volatility of four because, you know, 10's volatility, I don't like the taste of that. Well, then you just don't get the outcome that you want.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I hope people don't take that the wrong way because you can accept four, but, you know, but back to the Stephen Covey thing, you either have to push that goal back or live on less, or you to find a way to save more money to equal what your money would have done that it isn't doing now.

• 21:21Speaker 04

  Yeah. The way that we do it is we say, okay, here's, here's the end game. Here's what you have right now. Here's the capital that you can commit on a, on a monthly basis to reach your goals. Here's how long you have. We just solve for, here's how much, here's how fast your money has to grow. And if that number is 9%, then we say, okay, here's the collection of things that generate 9% historically over time. Here's what that means on a day-to-day thing. How do you feel about that? And if they go, well, let's see, to get 10 or nine, I gotta be okay with a minus 30. And if I have a million dollars and I woke up in three weeks from now and I had 700,000, I would puke and, you know, be really uncomfortable.

• 22:01Speaker 04

  Well, then, okay, fine. Well, what, where is that? Okay, I can tolerate, I can't tolerate 30%, but I could tolerate 20. Fine. Now you can only get seven and a half percent, not nine. I'm going to need you to save a little bit more money, or I'm going to need you to retire two years later, or live on less in retirement.

• 22:22Speaker 01

  Next up here, a quote from John Vlakogianis, founder of Agent Risk, weighs in on the next one, which is, review your options regularly. He says, obsessing over your investment accounts is a one-way street to losing money. On the other hand, markets change and evolve and portfolios built 10 years ago might not be relevant today. You should at least reevaluate every year, the allocation of your 401k, the fees you're paying, how it fits the rest of your financial portfolio. You agree with the once a year?

• 22:52Speaker 04

  I disagree with, I disagree with most of this statement, actually.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 22:56Speaker 04

  I mean, you're talking about reevaluating the funds on an annual basis. Like, what kind of time period is that in the history of reality? You know, I mean, I get looking at the fees, I understand that. But if you start paying attention to the funds on an annual basis, what are you going to do? What do you search for? And this is my challenge to everybody.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  You mean, what's your end game? What's your end game? What are you trying to do? So, so when you find something, what are you going to find?

• 23:21Speaker 04

  Yeah. So here's, here's what you do. So tell me, answer me this question. When you log into your 401k company and you're like, hmm, I should look at my funds and they've got them all displayed, right? Every one listed, top to bottom. You can toggle by the, do you, how do you search them? Do you search them alphabetically? No. Do you search them, you know, by ticker symbol? No. What do you click on? You click on one-year performance. Click. Oh, these are all the good ones. And these are all the bad ones. I got a little bit of the bad ones. And if you're doing that on an annual basis, or God forbid, you know, more frequently than that, what are you doing? It's just market timing.

• 23:58Speaker 01

  I got a better idea for this, though. So instead of that, because I agree with that, studies show everybody does that.

• 24:03Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  When I say everybody, though, I don't mean you. Somebody hands you their 401k statement and says, oh gee, help me with this. How do you look at their 401k options?

• 24:13Speaker 04

  Well, I think you have to do it by asset class. So I know that the right allocation might be 25% US companies, 25% smaller companies, 25% international companies, and 25% emerging market. I don't know, I'm just making it up.

• 24:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 24:29Speaker 04

  And so we say, okay.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  25% emerging markets. You mean 75% emerging markets.

• 24:35Speaker 04

  Sorry, my bad. Yeah. So it's 75 of the 20, I'm not sure. Anyways, hey, we go bigger, go home, where I'm from. But recently, home, a lot.

• 24:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was gonna say, you might be going home.

• 24:48Speaker 04

  So you take that out, you take, okay, so I need to have 25% of my money in large US companies. Let me see the list of large US companies. And from that list, which there might be two or three or five options, that's where I'm going to pick that position or those positions. Generally speaking, you pick the cheaper alternative, that's more of a passive type of strategy, but not all 401ks have that. So now you've got to start comparing things like expenses and tenure of the managers. How long have they been doing what they've been doing? The stability of the organization, that sort of stuff. But anyways, you do that with each one of those categories. And then after that, you leave it the hell alone. That's it. Because there's always going to be something that's better and there's always going to

• 25:32Speaker 04

  be something that's a little worse. That's the nature of the business. But if every time you go, oh, shoot, I picked that fund and I should have picked that one because that one did 2% better last year. It's just, it's just market timing. Set it, rebalance it once a year.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  If my only choices, and this is, and this is.

• 25:51Speaker 04

  The more you touch it, the more it goes away.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. The, I think that, that if you only have active manager choices in your 401k, which I don't think is the thing that much anymore.

• 26:04Speaker 04

  It is, but.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  But if you do, I think you do have to do a quick Morningstar search. Look and see, is the fund manager still there? Are they still managing the money the same way? How has the star ranking changed and why has it changed? And I mean, some of that's going to be 201, right? I'm definitely not just choosing the fund that went to five stars because that's what everybody does. Again, for people that know Morningstar, most people just go, oh, I'm choosing the five-star fund. I like looking under the hood and saying, how are the fees compared to everybody else? What types of returns do we have in different types of markets? And there's a 10-year graph that shows you.

• 26:42Speaker 04

  Yeah. Why did I get the returns? Did, did they happen to hit a home run on one idea that catapulted them to the top? Or are they kind of middle of the road all the time? You know, talk like rank within category? So how do they perform amongst their peers? It's not fair to compare small company funds against emerging market funds.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:03Speaker 04

  It's two different things, two different outcomes.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  And Morningstar will do that for free. That basic research, you can get that for free. Number four on our list, this is my favorite one. I know it's.

• 27:13Speaker 04

  24 more to go.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  I know, right? This is my favorite one, your favorite one. Increase your contributions. This is a number one. I love how you do this sometimes, OG. Just, hey, $25 more, you know? See if he can do $25 more.

• 27:27Speaker 04

  If you haven't changed it 1% this year, just hit pause, then go change your 401k by 1%, then come back. We'll wait.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  We will still be here.

• 27:37Speaker 04

  We're still waiting.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  As long as you hit pause. If you didn't hit pause, we're not going to be here. We're moving on. Just saying.

• 27:43Speaker 04

  Well, we can give people just a few seconds.

• 27:45Speaker 01

  Okay, here we go.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  Is that good?

• 27:50Speaker 04

  Okay, time's up. Yeah.

• 27:51Speaker 01

  Okay, fine.

• 27:52Speaker 04

  You should have done it. Do it, do it every six months. Add 1%. Here's the thing, you won't miss it. Guarantee, hand to God. Done it a million times. Nobody misses 1%. I don't care what's going on in your life. It's 1%, one teeny tiny amount.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  Number five on here was maybe the reason why I chose this piece in the first place, because it's sublime. It is one of these things that I think the master financial planners get, that a lot of people don't. And that's to, that's to use.

• 28:21Speaker 04

  Challenge accepted.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  Well, it's to use a portfolio perspective. And what they're talking about here is, let's say that your 401k is really strong in large company stock, but not a lot else. Well, don't treat your 401k like it's a standalone thing. Maybe you have a Roth, maybe you have these other investments. Use what the 401k gives you that's best, avoid what's not as good, and then allocate elsewhere around it so that you're looking at your whole perspective, you're looking at your whole portfolio and not just your 401k.

• 28:53Speaker 04

  This is so difficult for most people to do because it involves insane amounts of discipline. Because you start comparing again, where all this boils down to human behavior. And you start going, wow, my 401k's not doing so great, but my Roth IRA is kicking ass. So you know what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna put more money in my Roth now.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 29:11Speaker 04

  It's like, no, dude, the whole thing is supposed to like work together.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  And it's because your Roth IRA is tiny and we put all the small cap there and it's through the roof.

• 29:21Speaker 04

  Yeah. Or whatever the allocation was. But my, my point is, is that if you don't have the ability to look at the household as a whole and say, okay, across the household, how is your portfolio, your household portfolio, yours, your partner's, your brokerage account, the kids 529, like how all this stuff works together, you start evaluating things piece by piece. You know, and you say, well, my 401ks, I mean, I hear this all the time. I feel pretty good about my Vanguard accounts, but my 401ks really suck in. Why? Why is it not all working synergistically between one another?

• 29:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. I don't know why people think that there's some magic sauce.

• 30:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's all money. It's all your money, as a matter of fact. So why not make it all work well? That's part of the, as I said, that's part of the problem with the, with some of the platforms that are the kind of automated investing platforms. You go, well, I've got my Roth, my brokerage account, and my IRA, all with insert robo advisor here, and we're all in the aggressive allocation. So now I've got three of the exact same things in three different places, maybe different dollar amounts because I got different money in each bucket. But that's, I mean, it's better than nothing. But like you said, we high level professionals that you mentioned.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  Brilliant, I think was.

• 30:40Speaker 04

  Brilliant, high level professionals. But no, I mean, when it comes to asset location and specifically, you know, as it relates to thinking just a smidge down the field a little bit, it doesn't take very much to go, well, these things are really great and I can pick up these things outside of that and I can build a household portfolio. This is a great example, I was going to say for partners. I've got a really great 401k. My, my spouse has an okay 403B, but it's got one really good thing in it. Rather than, you know, trying to make a, what do we call that? A sandwich with the 403B. I take the one thing that's good and allocate around it.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:20Speaker 04

  It saves you money and you know, you got one position to keep track of. You're not trying to keep track of 32 things of which 31 of them suck.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  So much better. Number six on this list, and we don't need to go into this one too much, but don't touch it early. Go back and listen to Monday show. We discussed that in detail there. I know some people have to touch their 401k or their retirement fund early now, but it should be your last, last spot. Number seven, invest regularly. Here's what I like about the 401k and people that aren't investing in their 401k right now. The magic here, OG, is that it gets taken out of your paycheck. And so you're putting a little bit in all the time. And for many people that you've met with, I'm sure it's like they, they don't miss it after a while. It's just, it is.

• 32:09Speaker 04

  It's a 1% thing. It sucks at first, but just do it and it'll be okay.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  The piece reads, some of your contributions go in when the market's high, while others go in while the market's low, but over time they're going to average out and be somewhere in the middle. Because you kept going.

• 32:25Speaker 04

  Number. Hashtag math.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  Number eight, this is the problem that people have is they see that number get bigger. People that watch it too much. Number eight on the list of waste fixture 401k, don't pull out during downturns. Your 401k won't get pregnant with more money if you pull out.

• 32:47Speaker 04

  It's so challenging. I mean, you see the balance, it was a hundred, then a week later it's 90, a week later it's 80, a week later it's 70, a week later it's 65. Everybody in all the news says the end is near. You can't do it. You just have to stay the course.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  It is easy to leave it in and watch it go down 10%. And actually it's not easy, but I'll tell you it's easier. If you have $10,000 and it goes down 10%, you lost a thousand. But if you're at $100,000, you lose $10,000. And by the way, you're, you're at retirement and you've done a number and you've saved a million dollars there? You lost $100,000. So when we speak in percentages all the time, I think it does a disservice to how hard this is. I think it's much more.

• 33:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  When the market, market goes down 30% and you save $3 million, you just lost 900 grand.

• 33:56Speaker 04

  In 17 days.

• 33:58Speaker 01

  Bam.

• 34:00Speaker 04

  So it's hard to say like, actually, you know what? This is perfectly normal. I'm going to back the truck up.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  It's going to be fine.

• 34:08Speaker 04

  It'll be all right.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:09Speaker 04

  It's painful, you know, but sorry, Charlie. If you don't get to pick the top, you don't get to pick the bottom. So.

• 34:17Speaker 01

  The other reason I chose this is for every eight brilliant ones, there's always the one that we go, mm mm, so close. Number nine, reduce risk as you approach retirement. Not true.

• 34:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, false. This is probably the biggest issue with, with retirement planning overall, except for the behavior of the previous one, which is I'm going to take all my money out, you know, when the market goes down a little bit or whatever. The problem with being more conservative, the closer you get, is it takes you longer to compound your money that way. And when is the last opportunity for your money to double? And you want it to happen several times. And so if you're 55 and your portfolio is invested in all stocks and you're shooting for a 10%

• 35:08Speaker 04

  average return per year, we can know with pretty reasonable certainty that between 55 and your 62nd birthday, that money will double. Somewhere around there, 62nd birthday, 63rd birthday, somewhere in there. But if all of a sudden you said, hey, I'm 55, I'm getting close to retirement. I want to let off the gas. I'm going to go to 50 50. I'm going to have half my money in stocks, half my money in fixed income. Well, we just took the time for it to double and added three and a half years on the backend. So instead of it being a seven year process, not including your contributions, it now takes 10 years to do. And if you continue to get more conservative as those years go on and you follow that myth

• 35:52Speaker 04

  of, well, if I'm 56, I should have 56% of my money in bonds. Every year you're stretching out that length of time and you're taking away the last time you have prior to retirement for your money to grow.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  The real key here is knowing when you need the dollar. Reduce risk around when you need the dollar, not arbitrarily around this date when you might or might not need the money.

• 36:17Speaker 04

  You don't need it all on your 65th birthday at retirement.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  And if you do, I want to be at that party. I'm sorry, I do. I do.

• 36:24Speaker 04

  Or maybe I don't want to be at your party because, you know, a little melancholy. You're blowing it all on one day. But again, it's just so hard to think in the future and it's so hard to think about the benefits of compounding and more specifically the pitfalls of compounding. You know, we look at pensions and we look at investment plans and you say, hey, I've got a million bucks that should last me forever, except for the fact that milk is five bucks a gallon now, and it used to be a dollar. And in 25 years from now, it's going to be freaking $15 a gallon. And we're all just going to go, yeah, yeah. Well, I went to the store today, took a 20, got five back, you know, after my gallon of milk. And it sounds ludicrous. Who's going to spend 15 bucks for a gallon of milk? You will in 25 years from now.

• 37:09Speaker 04

  It's just how it's going to be. Or whatever the equivalent is, you know what I mean? I mean, it's just.

• 37:14Speaker 01

  Whatever the number ends up being.

• 37:16Speaker 04

  Yeah. It's, it's hard for us to envision that.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  Number 10 on this list, roll your 401k over. They actually say here, do not roll it over to your new job, which I think is, is important. I mean, whether your new job has good options or bad options right now, they can change those options. And if you lock yourself into the new 401k with all of your money, you're a passenger where you can use this opportunity to either leave it at the old job. If you have frankly, I don't know if it's better or worse, but just different options so that you have flexibility or roll it over to an IRA where you can do whatever the heck you need to, to get that well-rounded 401k.

• 37:55Speaker 04

  I can't see why you don't put this in an IRA. I guess there's a few circumstances here or there where leaving it in the old plan would make sense, somewhere around distribution planning, perhaps some different tax planning opportunities. But generally speaking, from an investment perspective, accessibility, ease of use, all of those sorts of things, having it be under your supervision and your control is going to be a lot easier. I will add one thing, however, which is if you do put it in your new plan, most of the time, and I'm just can't, I can't say always, but I would say the 99% of the time, you would be eligible to roll that back out to an IRA, even if you were still working there. Your rollover money in could be rollover money out if you chose to do that.

• 38:40Speaker 04

  So not a life sentence for most tastes, but be something you'd want to check on before you did it.

• 38:45Speaker 01

  Next up, and number 11 is to use catch up contributions. And I'm not talking about catch up like on your french fries. I'm talking about if you're over 50 and you got a late start, OG, you get a reprieve, a chance to put in more, which is nice. I don't think we need to spend a lot of time there.

• 39:00Speaker 04

  Do more.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  Yep. Number 12, have your plan reviewed by your financial advisor. I do not like it when you find some of these, and it's mostly a commission based advisor who talks about my money that I'm managing for you and everything else. I think you got to be able to look at it like it's a full portfolio, don't you?

• 39:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, we've talked about that already.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yep. Number 13, don't rely on target date funds. Go back to last week.

• 39:27Speaker 04

  Hallelujah.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  I got to tell you, we're at number 14. We've got a problem with one of these, pretty, pretty good piece. That's true. Number 14, don't own too much company stock.

• 39:39Speaker 04

  Hashtag Enron.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  You think there's people young enough here that they don't know that Enron?

• 39:44Speaker 04

  Countrywide?

• 39:46Speaker 01

  That's still 2007.

• 39:49Speaker 04

  Okay, fine. Forever 21, didn't they go bankrupt soon recently? Neiman Marcus?

• 39:57Speaker 01

  JCPenney?

• 39:58Speaker 04

  JCPenney was the

• 40:01Speaker 01

  J Crew?

• 40:02Speaker 04

  Pottery Barn. No, it's the Pier One.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  Pier One? Yeah. 5% guys, 5% is a good number on your company stock plan.

• 40:12Speaker 04

  Well, and here's what they did, you know, because of all these companies, the older ones, you know, used to get your company match in company stock and they could prevent you from selling it because of Enron. And because of all the other malfeasance was all the other ones, they actually made it illegal to do that now. They can give you your company's match in stock, but they can't limit your trading. So you're eligible to trade out of it. There are some very cool benefits to having company stock in your 401k, some really awesome tax benefits. But generally speaking, I only see that for people that are closing in on retirement right now, not people who are in the process of accumulation. Because if you're in accumulation mode, you shouldn't be having any more than 5% or 10% of your money. Think of it, your livelihood is tied up in this company, your insurance

• 40:56Speaker 04

  is tied up in this company, your benefits program is tied up in this company. Now you're going to tie your retirement plan to this company too.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  And that doesn't mean you can't own a lot of it. It means that as your net worth grows, you'll own more and more. If you stick with a percentage of 5%, you will still grow, then you'll have a bigger and bigger dollar number as your portfolio grows. So you can own more, just grow the rest of it. Number 15, don't over trade. Fidelity, I think, had that study of their 401k plans where the people that did the best were the dead ones. You know why? They'd never traded.

• 41:30Speaker 04

  They never traded.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  So good. Number 16, maximize your tax benefits. Man, if you're younger, I think choosing that Roth 401k option looks pretty good. What do you think, O G?

• 41:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, absolutely. And if you happen to be kind of in that wiggle zone of like right at a tax bracket, especially a higher one, and you can, you know, choose between putting some of your money in the pre-tax side and some of your money in the Roth side, just put enough in the pre-tax side to drop you into that lower marginal bracket. So you're saving that excess taxes on the, on the bigger money and put the rest in the Roth side, a little bit of combination plan.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  Number 17, we covered with making consistent payments is taking advantage of automation. I mean, clearly with your 401k, you're taking advantage of the fact that

• 42:18Speaker 04

  In theory, you should be paid every, every so often.

• 42:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Taking advantage of automation. And by the way, don't just do that with your 401k, do that with all your investments. If you have to think about writing a check, you're doing it wrong. Find something like, as an example, cut your cable bill, maybe save 50 bucks, automatically automate that 50 bucks. So you capture it. And now at the end of the year, you captured $600, not just a one-time 50. Number 18, go to your annual meeting. That's the meeting where they talk about the 401k plan and what's going on.

• 42:52Speaker 04

  It's more of a sales meeting, FYI.

• 42:54Speaker 01

  But I still think that having some interest in, in how it all works and what's going on with your 401k, good stuff. Number 19, avoid high cost investments. You can look for those at morningstar.com. It's a good place to go through and look at what your investments charge. Theoretically, O G, they give you that big fat book, but I think that big fat book they give you is good for nap time.

• 43:17Speaker 04

  Kinling.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  Oh, that'll keep a fire burning for hours. Last five are improvements that your employer can make. So the first 20 were you, the last five are your employer. Number one, they can reduce program fees. Number two, they can increase the investment options. I don't know if that's a great idea.

• 43:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, usually you end up having extra costs, the more options you have, plus you get decision fatigue. So more doesn't mean better, but definitely paying attention to the cost structure is important.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  Number three is instituting a loan program. Not a big fan of loans. This thing's going off the rails here at the end. I was so excited. Number

• 44:00Speaker 04

  You know, it's kind of part of the deal.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  Number four, increase your company match. Push for that. And then number five was to offer a Roth 401k. Good stuff.

• 44:09Speaker 04

  I'm going to add one, which, which you don't see very often, but I would love to see more, especially for people who are able to do it. You know, we talk about putting money in as you're able to, right? Some people get paid bonuses in the first quarter and say, hey, I'd love to put money in my 401k and just max this thing out and be done with it for the year, but I have to spread my contributions out throughout the year. Otherwise, I don't get my match the entire year. I've seen some companies that do this and most don't, but it would be a great addition to most 401k plans is just match your employees' contributions based on how much money they put in throughout the year. Don't do it every week and say, well, if you didn't put money in this week, you don't get a match. If I max my mind out because I got a $20,000 bonus on January 3rd, and I decided to put that

• 44:54Speaker 04

  on my 401k, I should be rewarded for that.

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Just seems cheap.

• 44:58Speaker 04

  It's, well, it's a program limitation and it's not very difficult to like adjust that. So if you're a business owner and you're listening, or somebody that has some influence on business owners, that would be a good pickup if you're able to get that done.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  Great piece here from Go Banking Rates. By the way, if you'd like to go back and read through that, we'll have it on our show notes page at stackyourbenjamins.com.

• 45:25Speaker 03

  Hey, trivia fans. As Joe's mom likes to call it, I'm your Corin cleaning trivia host, neighbor Doug. When all this social distancing started, I was planning on taking my first real break in years. You know me, I'm never one to just laze about. It's go, go, go, go, go all the time. Well, Joe's mom crushed all of those hopes. Doug, go clean the baseboards. Doug, go clean out the fireplace. Doug, go clean up those Cheetos you spilled all over the floor. God, when does it end, lady? While I go upstairs and fake an injury, I'll leave you with today's trivia. Question is, what famous American initiated the first street sweeping service in the U.S. in 1762 with an act regulating

• 46:09Speaker 03

  the pitching, paving, and cleaning of the streets of Philadelphia? I'll be back faster than you can take out the trash.

• 46:23Speaker 01

  Well, you may know that chaos is the name of the game here in mom's basement. What with guests coming in and out, Cooper the cat getting in the way, Doug being, well, being Doug. The holidays make it even worse because it's all about food and big meals. And the problem is prepping for those takes forever. But what about those between meals, right? The meals between those huge, huge, huge bookends. Well, that's where Factor comes in. Factor is made with high quality ingredients that you recognize and trust with over 175 banned ingredients. You always know you're eating something that's good for you, even when you don't have time. It's ready in two minutes, whether it's lunch

• 47:04Speaker 01

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• 47:50Speaker 01

  I use Factor and you should too. So let's eat real stackers. Head to factormeals.com/sb50off. Use code SB50OFF. And you know what? You're going to get 50% off and one free breakfast item per box for one year while supplies last until December 31st, 2026. That is code SB50OFF at factormeals.com, SB50OFF at factormeals.com. See website for more details. There is a financial conversation that's coming to millions of American families and there's a pretty good chance nobody wants to be the person who starts it. Inheritance.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  And here's why that matters. An estimated $124 trillion to heirs and charity is expected to be transferred by Americans over the next 20 years. It's an extraordinary amount of money, but Kiplinger's research found that 51% of adults and their parents, get this, never talk about money. And there's a pretty big disconnect. 47% of parents expect to leave a meaningful inheritance, while only 24% of adult children expect to actually receive one. Nearly 30% of parents don't even have a will in place. Maybe it's time we talked. Kiplinger calls it the trillion dollar talk, a conversation about inheritance,

• 49:10Speaker 01

  estate planning, wills, and the questions families should be asking before those decisions become urgent. Because knowing what your family wants and having a plan for it can be one of the most important financial conversations you will ever have. Ready to start yours? Visit kiplinger.com to learn more about the trillion dollar talk and what this historic wealth transfer could mean for your family.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  It's incredible at a small company like Stacking Benjamins, how one, one hire makes all the difference in the world. If you're a small business, the right hire can be make or break. Hoping the right people see your job posting isn't the best growth strategy. When the pressure's on, you need the right hire. This is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed Sponsored Jobs is a boost whenever you need to find quality talent, when workplace chaos hits and you need the right hire. This is a job for sponsored jobs. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post even seen at other sites. Get matched with and hire quality candidates who can drive the results you need. Reach candidates

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• 51:38Speaker 03

  Bad news, stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor Doug, and sadly, Joe's mom isn't buying my hamstring pull routine. She's added even more chores to my list and just threw some crutches at me. God, God, there's another one. So now I have to clean leaves out of the gutter, wash the walls with bleach water so they feel clean. Oh, God. I also have to vacuum out Joe's mom's car, organize the baked beans alphabetically in the pantry, and what? Wait. Oh, my God. Joe's mom wants me to sand down the corns on her feet? How is that my problem?

• 52:17Speaker 03

  Have you seen her feet? They look like chimpanzee feet mixed with I don't know what, like dipped in concrete. Her feet are so ugly when she stands in a sandbox. All the neighborhood cats come by and try to bury them. I'll tell you, this guy's about to go on strike. But before I do, here's today's trivia answer. The question was, what famous American initiated the first street sweeping service in the U.S. in 1762 with an act regulating the pitching, paving, and cleaning of streets of Philadelphia? Of course, the answer is none other than the inventor, politician, and founding father himself, Ben Franklin. I tell you what, Ben

• 52:57Speaker 03

  Franklin's the answer to every trivia question before like 1785. He started the first street sweeping service in the U.S. And like Ben helped to sweep away the filth in Philly, I'm going to go sweep away some of these chores. See ya.

• 53:17Speaker 01

  All right. That's going to do it for today. Hey, big thanks to everybody for hanging out with us today, spending another fun episode with us. Thanks to everybody who's left us a review of this show. Lastly, if you're looking for better help in your corner, not just a couple hours on a YouTube video, you really need to upgrade your team, head to stackingbenjamins.com/OG because he and his team are taking clients, and that will lead you to his calendar, and then you can see how you can upgrade your team. All right, that's going to do it for today. Doug, you got it from here, man. What should we have learned today?

• 53:52Speaker 03

  Ah, sure, Joe. Looks like I gotta clean up for you too, huh? Okay. First, take a lesson from our headline. Investing in index funds? Remember, they're self-cleaning, but still, make sure you're using the right index to reach your goals. Second, take a lesson from our 25 ways to fix your 401K. Looking for your best fix? Invest like it's a Chicago election. Save early and often for best results. But the big takeaway? I just realized Joe's mom's trying to drive me away with chores. Ha! Good try, lady. You and I both know that now that I'm on to you, all those chores are getting done. You can't get rid of me

• 54:34Speaker 03

  that easy. Bring those ugly feet over here, woman. I'm going to get right to work on them. This show is created by Joe Saul Sehhi, produced by Taylor Stephens, and engineered by the amazing Steve Stewart. Online, visit us on Twitter @SBenjaminsCast or on our Facebook page. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor Doug, and I'm wondering if KY Jelly is actually made in Kentucky. SV Podcasts may receive payment on the show from sponsors and guests in the form of books, giveaway items, discounts, or other remunerations. That's a big word. There's no way you'd take advice from these dorks, but like Joe's mom always says, don't

• 55:19Speaker 03

  take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only, and before making any financial decisions, consult with a real financial advisor. Big apologies to Joe's mom. I just realized that when you compare her feet to a Gila monster, they're quite beautiful. She somehow still doesn't see that as a compliment, though. Some people.

• 55:43Speaker 04

  Got a TV? Tell me about the Grant series.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I thought that, man, I hope people can go back and watch that because I thought that that was, I've finished two recent shows on completely different parts of history. The Grant series I thought was fantastic, and I saw a piece ripping it because of the fact they use actors instead of just-

• 56:43Speaker 04

  As opposed to the real people?

• 56:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, right, right. Well, instead of just, you know, like the Ken Burns thing where they just show photos, you know?

• 56:51Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  But I really liked having the actors. I thought that it kind of brought it alive. I gotta tell you-

• 56:58Speaker 04

  I made a total mistake with this, by the way. I did it on my phone to like record it, and it didn't record.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  Oh, well, I hope you can go back and watch it.

• 57:07Speaker 04

  It's gotta be, right? It's gotta be on History Channel online or something.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, and if you can also go back and watch the one on Washington that was back in February, also incredibly good. Both of those really good. I will say this, man, the History Channel has a ton of advertisements, so it's about 60 minutes worth of good stuff presented over two hours. I felt like we were always on a commercial, but besides that, that was really good. Way fewer commercials on FX on Hulu. I watched the story of the ERA, Mrs. America, starring Cate Blanchett. I gotta tell you, man, Cate Blanchett as Phyllis Schlafly, she can bring it. Rose Byrne played Gloria Steinem, and just Tracy

• 57:52Speaker 01

  Allman is in this. And I didn't know anything about the history of the ERA, and showing just all sides of that. It was made, my understanding is, it was made by the same people who did Mad Men, and a lot of the period dress that people used and the way that they talk. I thought it was, Mrs. America was also really good. So Grant, Mrs. America, two historical things that Cheryl and I really enjoyed.

• 58:19Speaker 04

  Well, sure. I mean, think about it this way. If you said, how much risk would you like to take on your next airplane ride? Zero. But you're doing some, you know what I mean? Like, you've got some sort of risk in everything that you do, but-

• 58:37Speaker 01

  That's a chatterbox.

• 58:42Speaker 04

  Did you hear that thing? It landed right by my window.

• 58:44Speaker 01

  Holy crap.

• 58:45Speaker 04

  Gave me a how do you do? Tell me more about that 401K planning stuff you're talking about.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  I want into this conversation. Hey, OG, put that as a snippet at the end of the after show.

• 58:56Speaker 04

  My name is OG. You're talking about Steve.

• 58:59Speaker 01

  Oh, Steve. Oh, no, I'm telling you to tell Steve.

• 59:02Speaker 04

  Oh, hey, Steve, could you take that and put it as a snippet at the end? According to Joe, that's what you wanted.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  Thank you. Much better.

• 59:10Speaker 04

  What the hell were we talking about?