Credit Cards 101: Points, Cash Back, and the Traps Card Companies Want You to Fall Into SB1906

Credit card companies are getting smarter about one thing: making an $800 annual fee feel like a steal. Joe and OG open the vault on how the points-and-perks game actually works, why "free" subscriptions and dining credits aren't really free, and the one simple piece of math that tells you whether a point is worth more than cash. Doug plays referee in a live round of Points, Cash, or Pass, and it turns out his instinct to keep one boring card in his wallet might be the smartest strategy in the room. What You'll Walk Away With The 2% rule that tells you in five seconds whether a points redemption is actually a good deal or just a shiny numberWhy "almost premium" credit cards are the fastest-growing category in the industry, and who they're really designed forThe real reason card companies give you six months of free DoorDash or Apple TV, and why it costs you more than you thinkHow to tell if you're the kind of person who should play the points game at all, and why that's not a bad thing to admitThe one credit card rule that matters more than any rewards program: pay it off every month or none of this applies to youWhy transferring points to an airline can either be a smart move or a trap, depending on one thing you do before you transferThe behavioral trick retailers use to get your card out of your wallet the second time, not the firstWhat "stacking" points actually means, and why it's the one place serious players find real valueWhy This Matters Now Credit card rewards have quietly become their own side economy, with companies spending hundreds of millions of dollars to get you to sign up, swipe, and forget. That's not inherently bad, but it works best when you're the one steering it instead of the other way around. Whether you're the type who wants a system for maximizing every point or the type who just wants one card and zero complexity, knowing the handful of rules that actually matter means you get the benefit without accidentally reshaping your spending to chase it. From the Basement Doug gets put through a five-round gauntlet of Points, Cash, or Pass, and somehow nails every single one by refusing to play the game at all. There's also a sticker system involved, a strong opinion about mauve wallets, and a trivia question about Breakfast at Tiffany's that goes about as well as you'd expect. Resources Mentioned The Points Guy https://thepointsguy.com — the go-to resource Joe and OG reference for maximizing point redemptionsPoint.me https://point.me — the tool Joe uses to compare redemption value across multiple loyalty programsFieldKit https://stackingbenjamins.com/fieldkit — the budgeting app mentioned for tracking net worth, subscriptions, and creditMonster: The Lizzie Borden Story https://www.netflix.com — a mysterious bonus link that may or may not exist, and definitely isn't some kind of secret extra segment. We'd never do that. FULL SHOW NOTES: https://www.stackingbenjamins.com/how-to-use-credit-card-rewards-1906/ Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.stackingbenjamins.com/201 Enjoy! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

  Hey, this is Joe's sister Nikki. I think I might be the only girl in the world who has a brother who spends his entire day in the basement pretending he has an internet radio show.

• 0:49Speaker 02

  Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show.

• 1:03Speaker 02

  I'm Joe's mom's neighbor Doug. And remember those cartoons with a devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other? Today, we're talking about the angel and devil of personal finance, Joe and oh, I'm kidding. It's credit cards. Of course, it's credit cards. New data shows credit card companies are targeting you with hot new offers. So we'll make sure you're ready to go on offense with a great strategy. But that's not all. Today, we answer a question from Nick, who's wondering about insurances. Hey, Nick, we got you covered. And now here come two guys who are your money friends every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. It's Joe and oh, Juj, Juj, G.

• 1:52Speaker 03

  Happy Monday, stackers. We're super happy you're here. I am Joe Saul Sehi. I'm Average Joe Money on X. It is credit card week on the show, and the guy who loves him a credit card sitting across from me, Mr. OG's here. How are you, man?

• 2:09Speaker 04

  I'm doing great. Yep. Do love me some credit cards. We can play, I'll show you yours if you show me mine. Wait, I'll show you mine if I show, whatever. You get the idea.

• 2:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, I do get the.

• 2:19Speaker 04

  How many points do you?

• 2:19Speaker 03

  I do get the idea. Oh, well, of course, we have a game for Doug. We do have a game for Doug on today's credit card show. It's going to be great. That's the best part of the show. But actually, we are not a credit card show. We're a financial planning podcast. But a basic piece of getting your financial plan in order is not to wreck it. And OG, you and I have seen plenty of people over the years that have wrecked their chance of financial security, because as Doug talked about earlier, the devil of the credit card gets in the way. We got to make sure that doesn't happen.

• 2:50Speaker 04

  Why do I have a picture in my mind of the lady from Waterboy saying, credit cards are the devil?

• 2:59Speaker 03

  And they can be, as you know.

• 3:01Speaker 04

  But they can also pay for some hella cool flights.

• 3:04Speaker 03

  They can. They can do some great, great, great stuff in your life. So we're going to do credit card 101. We're going to talk about the basics. And what also scares me is I spent some time this weekend on some of these credit card stacking and how to maximize your point sites. And I could see somebody, OG, going there first before we do this credit card 101 piece that we're going to do today. And again, you know, you get super excited about it. You wreck the whole ship before it even sets sail. So we don't want to do that. It's credit cards on today's show. Before we talk credit cards, we have a couple of sponsors who help us keep on keeping on. We're going to hear from them.

• 3:45Speaker 03

  And then, OG, Doug and I, we are helping you keep your wallet straight and maybe help you put a few Benjamins in your pocket. Well, a field kit is here. If you've missed my walkthroughs, man, you don't realize what you missed. We built the equivalent of Superman for your money. It's a budgeting app that cancels subscriptions, it protects and helps you build credit, tracks your net worth, so much more. It's the super app that keeps your money on track. You don't want to spend time managing your money, especially with us talking credit cards today. How important is it for you to keep all that in line? Super important. Stackyourbenjamins.com/fieldkit to learn more.

• 4:27Speaker 03

  Well, you may know that Chaos is the name of the game here in mom's basement, what with guests coming in and out, Cooper the cat getting in the way, Doug being, well, being Doug. The holidays make it even worse because it's all about food and big meals. And the problem is prepping for those takes forever. But what about those between meals, right? The meals between those huge, huge, huge bookends? Well, that's where Factor comes in. Factor is made with high-quality ingredients that you recognize and trust with over 175 banned ingredients. You always know you're eating something that's good for you, even when you don't have time. It's ready in two minutes.

• 5:06Speaker 03

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• 5:48Speaker 03

  life and beating mom at card games. I use Factor, and you should too. So let's eat real, stackers. Head to factormeals.com/sb50off, use code SB50OFF. And you know what? You're going to get 50% off and one free breakfast item per box for one year while supplies last until December 31st, 2026. That is code SB50OFF at factormeals.com, SB50OFF at factormeals.com. See website for more details. There is a financial conversation that's coming to millions of American families, and there's a pretty good chance nobody wants to be the person who starts it.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  Inheritance. And here's why that matters. An estimated $124 trillion to heirs in charity is expected to be transferred by Americans over the next 20 years. It's an extraordinary amount of money, but Kiplinger's research found that 51% of adults and their parents, get this, never talk about money. And there's a pretty big disconnect. 47% of parents expect to leave a meaningful inheritance, while only 24% of adult children expect to actually receive one. Nearly 30% of parents don't even have a will in place. Maybe it's time we talked. Kiplinger calls it the trillion-dollar talk, a conversation about inheritance, estate

• 7:13Speaker 03

  planning, wills, and the questions families should be asking before those decisions become urgent, because knowing what your family wants and having a plan for it can be one of the most important financial conversations you will ever have. Ready to start yours? Visit kiplinger.com to learn more about the trillion-dollar talk and what this historic wealth transfer could mean for your family.

• 7:47Speaker 03

  I was reading the Wall Street Journal, as I am prone to do. And I saw this piece that was written by Ben Glickman and Jasmine Lee, "The Rise of the Almost Premium Credit Card." This got me thinking about today's topic. Ben writes, "It used to be that $500 would get you a premium credit card. Now it gets you something just below that. The popularity of ultra-lux cards with ever higher annual fees has led to a reshuffling in the market, with cards just below that tier now making up a new category for the not-quite-rich-enough," maybe my favorite phrase, not-quite, almost-rich, not-quite-rich-enough. "These near-premium cards are increasingly being aimed at younger Americans eager for

• 8:31Speaker 03

  travel, dining out in the merry-go-round of other life experiences constantly on display on social media and in pop culture." That, of course, OG, made me groan. It also made me think, you know what? It's been a while since we've gotten into budgeting and just wallet management 101 and the credit card game. So cards with $700, $800, almost $900 annual fees, OG, creating this new category underneath them. You still get the metal card, right? Because you want the metal. You still get travel rewards. You still get dining perks. But apparently now, we have the credit card equivalent of premium economy. As we see, like, the rise of premium economy on the plane, we've got premium economy in

• 9:15Speaker 03

  credit card land. What do you think about these? Trap or maybe a way for people to bump up a level?

• 9:22Speaker 04

  I think the article, what it's saying is, is a lot of the cases you can get what you're looking for, for not having the $900 a year fee card. And sometimes, actually, the next tier down is a better value. Ultimately, when it comes to the points-chasing type of scenario, you have to evaluate what you're spending on, what you benefit from, or what you value in terms of, you know, the output that comes from your Amex card or your Visa or whatever you got. But the biggest thing is, you have to even see whether or not you're responsible enough to have credit cards. And what I mean by that is, if you're one of the, I don't know, what's the number today? 60% of Americans that has a credit card balance month-to-month? It doesn't matter what point program you have. You're losing your you-know-what to

• 10:07Speaker 04

  interest, because there's no points program that is better than paying off your credit card bill every month. If you can't pay your credit card bill off every month, you don't need any points programs.

• 10:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, the best point program is the one where you avoid interest rate points.

• 10:24Speaker 04

  Avoid interest points. Yeah. Yeah.

• 10:27Speaker 03

  But yeah, OG, they get us with the cool textures. I mean, they get us with all the feels, the different colors of the card. Now, I got to tell you, I've got the American Airlines card. We'll talk about why I have this particular card. But I've handed it to waiters before, and waiters, just they, they get the card and they, ooh, like, there's this little, oh, wow. Doug, how much would you pay annually for a credit card if it were sufficiently heavy and a pretty color?

• 10:55Speaker 02

  Well, Joe, my wallet does need some interior decorating. I'm missing out on kind of a mauve in my wallet. So if I can get one of those cards, I'd probably give it a good, I don't know, 150 bucks a year, 200 bucks a year to get the color scheme.

• 11:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, my friend Trevor does this thing called rucking. You guys familiar with rucking, where you put weight on your back and you go hiking?

• 11:15Speaker 04

  I did it for a job. It sucks. It's amazing to me that people think that this is actually fun.

• 11:23Speaker 04

  I got an idea. Let's go play soldier boy for a week. How about not?

• 11:29Speaker 03

  But if Doug gets a, gets a heavy enough credit card, Doug, you could consider it rucking. Just put that in your wallet and there you go. You got that. But I think there is this important thing. Oh gee, which you referenced, which is, does this thing actually make us money? Are we trying to spend money justifying owning it? So before we talk points, who shouldn't be playing this game? You mentioned people carrying a balance. Who else should be playing the game? Oh gee.

• 11:58Speaker 04

  You know, just straight up like the points game? Is that what you're talking about? Or the rewards game?

• 12:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, the rewards game.

• 12:05Speaker 04

  I think that it's a really slippery slope if you don't have a bunch of time and energy to dedicate toward wasting time. And I don't mean that in a bad sense. I'm just saying like, if you're trying to optimize every dollar and take advantage of signups, bonuses and all that sort of stuff, probably the leader in this category is the points guy. And many people are familiar with Brian and his work and all the platforms that they do. But one of the things that he talks a lot about is if you're going to play this game, it's, this is your side project. You need to pay attention to all the rules and regulations around the value that you're trying to get. Because a lot of times the value isn't necessarily in the fact that you're getting a point.

• 12:47Speaker 04

  It's the benefit of getting 200,000 of these points because you just got the brand new card. But if you miss the signup, or you miss the time, or you miss the dollars, or worse yet, you manufacture the spend to get it. And then you end up with the interest payments, like we talked about before. So I could get my signup bonus. I needed to charge this thing and now I can't pay it off. And you know, you're just, you're chasing the wrong thing at that point.

• 13:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. If you hate complexity, like if you're somebody that just naturally does not like complexity, this is not for you at all. Cause

• 13:19Speaker 04

  Probably not.

• 13:20Speaker 03

  They make it complex on purpose.

• 13:22Speaker 04

  Well, sure. Yeah. I mean, they're not trying to give away money.

• 13:26Speaker 03

  I think also, you know, people carrying a balance, people hate complexity. I also think there's this tendency when you're chasing rewards to spend money that you don't have. Oh gee, or to just spend money in a way that you wouldn't. Like if you're somebody that sees different rewards and you're like, oh, well, I could upgrade this dinner that I really don't care about and it'll just give us more points. I can afford to pay for it, but why am I spending money on stuff I don't value to chase points? Doesn't make any sense to me either.

• 13:53Speaker 04

  The other thing that I've noticed recently in terms of the complexity and spending money you don't need to spend type of merging of those things here is the advent of credit cards, giving you something that costs money on a subscription basis for free for a short period of time. Because you have the card. So it's like, you get six months of DoorDash premium with this card.

• 14:16Speaker 04

  It's great. It's six months for free. How awesome is that? Well, guess what happens? Of course. DoorDash is willing to pay Chase $100 million to get, to get, you know, 7,000 or 70,000 or 700,000 people to sign up for this thing.

• 14:28Speaker 03

  Signups, yeah.

• 14:29Speaker 04

  Six months for free, because the vast majority of them forget that it's even there. And you know what? I mean, hey, it's 10 bucks a month. Who gives a crap? It's only 10 bucks. But you do that for that. And then you do it for Apple TV and you do it for Disney and you do it for, you know, Uber Eats and you do it for all these other Peloton and every single solitary company that can get their fingers into a credit card rewards program. And say, well, we'll give this to you for free for six months. And now you're spending thousands of dollars a year on subscription fees.

• 15:00Speaker 03

  Level number one is pay off the card in full. If you don't ignore the whole game. Number two would be what a good friend in the credit card industry told me, which was, you know what? If you don't want to play any of this, if you don't have time, you don't like complexity, you pay them off every month, find a cash back reward card that gives you at least 2%. If you get 2% cash back, you don't have to play any of this. You just get cash and it's done. I think that, isn't that what you carry Doug is a cash back?

• 15:29Speaker 02

  The only game I play. I've, I've been a big fan of it. Frankly, I don't need to go to an ATM all year long. I go so infrequently that when I do go to an ATM, I get fraud alerts immediately from my bank.

• 15:41Speaker 03

  Is it really you?

• 15:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like I, at best, I get a thing on my phone right away that says, somebody's trying to use your card. Yeah, I know it's me, but that, I've had several years in a row where I don't go to the ATM because I get cash from Costco. Cause I just, I pay it all off every month. I buy everything I possibly can at Costco and all my utilities and everything else that'll allow me to put it on the, on the card. And it's like, I don't, I'm not going to mess with, I'm going to use this card because it's better for restaurants and this card's better for, I don't know, taxi rides or something. No, I'm just, it's one card.

• 16:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  Cash back.

• 16:16Speaker 03

  My main card is the American Airlines card I was referencing earlier, but that's because I travel enough. The problem is though, for me is it does create a bunch of complexity. I'm not getting a card that is the top card, which is why I don't spend a lot of time looking at the points guy. I'm solving specifically for American Airlines, like specifically.

• 16:38Speaker 03

  The cool thing about Tex or Canada, Doug, I don't know if you know this, but you can travel any airline you want, as long as it's American.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  It's American and you need to go.

• 16:45Speaker 03

  You can go anywhere you want in the entire world, as long as it's Dallas. And you can go anytime you want, as long as it's 6 a.m. or 2 p.m. It is incredibly flexible. So if I'm solving for that, then I'm solving for how do I, how do I max out this American Airlines program? But I think this idea of rewards alter your spending behavior. If they change the way that you're spending money, then it's bad. Like with cash back, the cool thing is you're not going to go crazy on cash back going, oh, guess what? I'm getting, I'm getting two cents back.

• 17:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 17:19Speaker 03

  For each, for each dollar, you're not going to play that game at all with a cash back card.

• 17:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't, I could, because I, it's tiered. A lot of the ones that are just cash back are tiered based on the kind of things you're spending money on, gas versus travel versus restaurants. And I suppose it could, if I allowed it to, I could say, oh, I'm going to go buy this. But I just don't, because it's just too much thinking and I'm going to buy what I want to buy or need to buy anyways. And if it happens to be, because it's all going on one card. I have one credit card. So it's all going there anyway. So I don't really need to try to game it. I'm not going to use one card for food because that one gives me more on food. It's just whatever their plan offers is what I'm getting back.

• 18:01Speaker 03

  I created a sticker system. I have three cards. I created a sticker system of green for gas. So I pull out the one that has a little green sticker on it, blue for restaurants. And then

• 18:12Speaker 02

  Cause you're always sad after you go to the bad restaurants. That's why you chose blue.

• 18:17Speaker 03

  That's right. Cause it makes me blue.

• 18:18Speaker 02

  Too much. We're talking about reward programs. And you also mentioned earlier, Joe, if these things are things that bring you joy and you need. The problem with credit cards is it allows us to circumvent that thought process of, is this something I need? And you get to go buy it. There's no pause involved to make you think, is this something I should be buying? And that's my issue with all of the cards and trying to play the game system. Because you've replaced the real denominator of the equation of need with the game that the credit card companies want you to play with their reward system.

• 19:01Speaker 02

  And that's my apprehension with trying to get into multiple cards. Then I'm not thinking about the right thing anymore. The right motivator is not top of mind for me.

• 19:13Speaker 03

  Well, why don't we go meta Doug? You're talking about the credit card game they want you to play. Let's play a game about the credit card game. All right, Doug, here's the game. I'm going to give you a situation. You have three choices. Oh gee, he's going to opine on your pick.

• 19:28Speaker 02

  I think we know what his opination is going to be on every single one of my answers.

• 19:34Speaker 03

  We don't got to call him OG. We tell you we call him the openator.

• 19:39Speaker 03

  You can go points, chase the reward opportunity. You can go cash, take the simple guaranteed value, or you can pass because the deal is trying to make us do something done. Points, cash or pass. You ready?

• 19:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:52Speaker 03

  The welcome bonus, you are already going to spend $4,000 in the next three months. There's a card that offers you a huge welcome bonus. If you spend the $4,000 in that period. Points, cash.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  Pass.

• 20:09Speaker 03

  Or pass. You pass on the reward bonus, even if you were going to get the 4,000 bucks.

• 20:14Speaker 02

  Because it means another card and I don't want, I want one card in my wallet unless it's a pretty color. That changes my answer if it's a pretty color or if it's like, you know, made out of plutonium or something. But otherwise I'm passing because I like to simplify my life. I want one card.

• 20:31Speaker 03

  Oh gee, what are you doing in this case?

• 20:33Speaker 04

  Well, I think for Doug's sake, I would say, you know, it might make some sense to get a bonus point thing or something. I mean, you like to travel, you like to spend money on golf. So maybe you could get your next flight to the UK paid for or something like that.

• 20:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think this is passing up free money. If you were going to spend it already.

• 20:51Speaker 04

  The thing that it requires is it requires a lot of planning in advance. Let's say that you're doing a backyard remodel project. And you said, hey, I'm, I'm putting in a new grill. I'm putting in an outdoor refrigerator, you know, I'm going to buy some furniture for the patio, maybe a ceiling fan. You knew that those expenses were coming and they were budgeted. And then you also knew that there was a, a program that had a good signup. I think you could do all that. I think what happens for most people is not that, is not that linear. I think most people go, oh, I read online that Chase has a 200,000 point signup. I should do that because who doesn't want 200,000 points?

• 21:32Speaker 04

  And oh crap, I gotta spend 20,000 in the next six months. Okay. I mean, I'll figure something out. You know, it's that sort of reaction. I think that's what Doug's point is, is like, A, I don't want to be trying to color code my credit cards in my wallet to be like, which shade of red is patio furniture?

• 21:49Speaker 02

  What kind of loser does that?

• 21:52Speaker 03

  Who would do something like that?

• 21:53Speaker 04

  What do you do when the colors fade? You're like, is this green or blue?

• 21:58Speaker 03

  I think the problem is if the spending should earn the bonus, not the bonus create the spending, right? The credit card company wants you to go four grand, put it on this card. You're like, oh man, I'm not going to spend four grand, but I can now because I'll get a free welcome bonus. Well, you paid for it. All right. Uh, question number two, Doug. Here we go.

• 22:19Speaker 03

  You're booking a hotel, the cash price is $400, but you have 20,000 points available and it costs 20,000 points. Do you use the points? Do you pay the cash?

• 22:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I gotta pause on answering that because I normally, I have a problem with points and I have points at some hotels and points on some airlines and I forget to use them all the time. I don't dig into that aspect of it and then they expire because I really hate that whole, the changing economy of points and how they can devalue them so fast. So I'm just so annoyed that I probably would end up just paying for it and not using the points because, not because I've made a conscious choice, it's not a strategy, it's because I'm an idiot and I forget they're there.

• 23:08Speaker 03

  It sounds like you'd use the points just to get rid of them.

• 23:10Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 23:13Speaker 03

  I don't care if it's a good deal or bad. I'm going to get rid of these points. So I just don't have anymore.

• 23:16Speaker 02

  It's clutter in my life. If I could remember that I had the points, I would use the points.

• 23:21Speaker 03

  There is a simple calculation to know if it's a good deal or not Doug, which is in the 20,000 points, you drop the last two numbers. So in other words, a 20,000 drop two zero. So now it's 200 and then double it, but which is basically find it 2%, right? Find 2%. It equals 400 bucks. So at this point, 20,000, 20,000 points equals 400 bucks.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  I did not know that.

• 23:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. And then you know, if it's at least equal to the cash, if it's a decent deal, if it's less than that, which happens all the time, OG, I mean, credit card companies are going to give you all these hotel deals that look splashy, but if it doesn't have the 2% rule, you probably are doing better cash back.

• 24:04Speaker 04

  I mean, if you have the opportunity to do cash back at 2% or points redemption at one and a half, you know, on paper, the 2% cash is better. You have to have a 2% cash rewards card to do that. No credit card company is going to allow you to reward the points at 2%. But I will put a little asterisk next to that and say, the benefit of the points is, is it doesn't affect your cash flow. So if it is one of those scenarios where it's like, I didn't plan on the trip up north because you know, we have somebody sick in the hospital and now I'm gonna be in the hotel for a couple nights and I got, you know, this is a great time to use those, even if the redemption dollars aren't exactly perfect because you say, I didn't have in the budget, a thousand dollar

• 24:47Speaker 04

  weekend hotel trip plus flight plus food and all that nonsense, but I do have enough Marriott points to pay for the hotel room or I've got enough Delta miles to, to do it, even if the redemption sucks. It's at least it kind of doesn't ruin your cash flow. Doug, what I will say to you about the point thing, I have a similar, I have a lot of them, had a lot of them and I would also forget to use them. Like I'd be like, oh, I'm sure there's a better redemption next time. I'll just wait. And at the beginning of this year, I said, I am not going to use any of my own money until I burn through all of my points. I do not care because of the devaluation, because every year it's like, well, that hotel room used to be 60,000 and now it's 80,000. Because of that reason, holding on to them, unless you have a specific purpose, you know, in two years from now,

• 25:32Speaker 04

  we're taking the family to, you know, Europe and I'm going to pay for the flights, just use them. And so I said, this year, I'm not paying for anything out of pocket until I burn all my points. And I've had some really crappy redemptions, but I've also saved a lot of cash flow by not writing checks for airline flights.

• 25:48Speaker 02

  Joe and Cheryl's food in the freezer policy.

• 25:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, burn it. Just burn them up. See what happens.

• 25:53Speaker 03

  There have been several times when I've used them that I'll get 2.5, 2.75%, sometimes 3%, which is pretty good on special deals. I like knowing though Doug, that little calculation, but I'm also with OG, there's been times when I'm like, I just don't want to spend cash right now. I want to cut the cash flow. So let's do it. And because I get some bonus points, because if you do play the game and you reach higher levels, like I'm in the Hyatt program, you get bonus points that you don't pay for. So now you're working with some of their money. Okay. Number three, Doug, you've got 100,000 points. This is funny this Doug, because Doug hates points, but Doug, you've got 100,000 points and they're transferable. An airline offers a 25% transfer

• 26:38Speaker 03

  bonus. That means your 100,000 is going to become 125,000 if you take it from the credit card and move it over to the airline. Did this recently with a trip to Europe. Transfer the points, transfer the 100,000 to make it 125,000 in the airline or leave, leave the points alone and don't transfer.

• 27:03Speaker 02

  My inclination is to say, I don't feel like dealing with the math. I don't enjoy math. So I don't want to do that.

• 27:11Speaker 03

  25% more.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  But then my next thought is, okay, but what does, 125,000 at the airline may be worth less to me or less in their ecosystem than the 100,000 where it's currently sitting. So I'm going to have to do that comparison before I just say, oh, 25% sounds good. I'll take that because if it costs me 400,000 to get a plane ticket, I'm no better off with 125 at the airline than I was with zero, because I'm still not going to be able to use it to get a ticket. So that, I'm sort of comparing the, the economies of those two worlds before I do anything, but more than likely,

• 27:56Speaker 02

  because that requires a lot of work and I'd rather be golfing, I will not do it.

• 28:02Speaker 03

  Yeah. This is also a trap. It 100% is a trap. OG, nice job Doug on that one. It's a trap because unless I plan the trip already, if I've already planned the trip, I've looked at the number of points and then I transfer and I get the 25%, which is what happened to me with British Airlines, with that trip to Europe, then you're not trapped to use British air in the future because once I transfer it there, it's stuck there. You know what I mean? If I take points that are usable in a lot of different places with my credit card, I move it to an airline. I don't have to spend it on that airline Doug, exactly what you said. If I've got the trip planned, it's a good idea. If I don't have the trip planned, then I'm really trapping myself. Have you fallen for this one before OG?

• 28:45Speaker 04

  It's a fun way to ask that question. Have you been an idiot like we think Doug would be?

• 28:49Speaker 03

  Well, my problem was, let me tell you what my problem was, because I did get partially trapped. I did not do the point calculation ahead of time. So I transferred the points, forgetting I was getting 25% more from British air. So I get 25% more, but I transferred the exact number of points to get the redemption that I needed. And now I've got the extra 25% sitting at British Airlines. So I partially messed this up.

• 29:14Speaker 04

  Reminds me of this comedian where the guy said, who came up with a gift card? Let's take money, which is usable everywhere and turn it into money that's only usable here. It's like your credit card points. It's like, let me take your credit card points, which can be used anywhere and redeemed for against your statement balance. And let's really focus them on one particular thing. But yeah, you've got to do the math on, on like Doug said, to see if you're going to do it anyway, if this will make a problem go away.

• 29:49Speaker 03

  Only do the transfer if you've got it planned ahead of time. All right. We've got some more scenarios for you Doug. You're not off the hot seat yet, but we're actually going to turn away from the hot seat instead shine the light on you because you've got the Monday trivia question.

• 30:04Speaker 02

  Sure do, Joe. Hey there stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor Doug. You guys remember that song from the nineties, Breakfast at Tiffany's by Deep Blue, something, you know, it goes like, and I said, what about breakfast at Tiffany's? I'd sing more, but apparently when you're as good as I am, that's how lawsuits happen. Anyway, for years, I thought that song was about a guy trying to get back together with a woman named Tiffany, which I totally understood. But I've had breakfast at Tiffany's. Nice girl. Made a pretty decent Denver omelet. A little heavy on the peppers. Turns out, Ron Tiffany. The song was actually inspired by the classic 1961 movie, Breakfast at Tiffany's,

• 30:43Speaker 02

  which premiered on this day 65 years ago. And the movie isn't about breakfast or a woman named Tiffany. Tiffany's is a damn jewelry store. Now that's just false advertising. That's like making a movie called Lunch at Home Depot and then spending two hours watching a woman buy a belt sander. Anyway, Breakfast at Tiffany's gave us one of the most-

• 31:04Speaker 03

  Could be romantic for the right person. Could be very romantic.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  I mean, if you're Ron Swanson, yeah. Anyway, Breakfast at Tiffany's gave us one of the most iconic characters in movie history. Holly Go Lightly. So today's trivia question, what legendary actress played Holly Go Lightly in Breakfast at Tiffany's? I'll be back right after I give Tiffany a call. I never did return that Tupperware.

• 31:33Speaker 03

  Well, you may know that chaos is the name of the game here in mom's basement. What with guests coming in and out, Cooper, the cat getting in the way, Doug being, well, being Doug, the holidays make it even worse because it's all about food and big meals. And the problem is prepping for those takes forever. But what about those between meals, right? The meals between those huge, huge, huge bookends. Well, that's where factor comes in. Factor is made with high quality ingredients that you recognize and trust with over 175 banned ingredients. You always know you're eating something that's good for you, even when you don't have time. It's ready in two minutes, whether it's lunch between meetings or dinner after holiday shopping.

• 32:17Speaker 03

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• 33:01Speaker 03

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• 33:29Speaker 03

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• 35:32Speaker 02

  Hey there stackers. I'm internationally renowned film critic and guy who gave the Godfather two stars because there wasn't enough parenting advice, Joe's mom's neighbor Doug. Before the break, we were talking about breakfast at Tiffany's, the classic 1961 movie that apparently contains neither breakfast nor anyone named Tiffany. I still say that's a problem. Fight Club, fighting, hot tub time machine. You've got a hot tub, you've got time machine, boom. Those people understood how titles work, but breakfast at Tiffany's, no pancakes, no hash browns, not even one sad soggy bowl of raisin bran. Instead, we got Holly Golightly, one of the most famous characters in movie history wandering around New York, looking glamorous and hanging around outside a jewelry store, which incidentally

• 36:16Speaker 02

  is exactly how Joe's mom got banned from K Jewelers. So who played Holly Golightly? It was the legendary actress who won an Oscar for Roman Holiday, starred in My Fair Lady, and somehow managed to make eating a pastry on a New York sidewalk look classy. The answer is Audrey Hepburn. And deep blue something, if you're listening, I still think my Tiffany would have made a better movie. She had a Fiero and once got us kicked out of a ponderosa. Now there's your movie.

• 36:46Speaker 03

  There's some cultural references there. I gotta look up what a Fiero is and a ponderosa. In the same trivia, he gets a twofer.

• 36:53Speaker 02

  Fiero is for sweet.

• 36:54Speaker 03

  Audrey Hepburn, just what, if you're, you know, my daughter right now is going through with her fiance, they're watching classic films. They just watched Casablanca this last weekend.

• 37:03Speaker 02

  Oh, romantic.

• 37:05Speaker 03

  Breakfast at Tiffany's is a nice one to watch. And Doug, you said you haven't seen breakfast at Tiffany's.

• 37:10Speaker 02

  I have not.

• 37:11Speaker 03

  OG.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  There's no way he's watching this movie.

• 37:13Speaker 04

  How many tanks or how many explosions are in it?

• 37:15Speaker 02

  I was going to say, nothing blows up in this movie.

• 37:18Speaker 03

  I'm wondering for some of those old movies, like some of the westerns, like High Noon. Did you see any of those? That would be an OG movie, an OG equivalent. No?

• 37:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, you've got to watch some westerns, don't you?

• 37:30Speaker 03

  The silence says everything.

• 37:32Speaker 02

  What about new ones like the 310 to Yuma? The new version of that, plenty of explosions and fighting.

• 37:37Speaker 03

  That one, remember?

• 37:38Speaker 02

  It's a great movie.

• 37:39Speaker 03

  I came over to your house, you're like, we're watching a movie tonight. Like, okay. And we watched 310.

• 37:44Speaker 02

  Unforgiven.

• 37:45Speaker 04

  You're calling unforgiven a new movie?

• 37:47Speaker 02

  Lots of great fighting in that movie.

• 37:48Speaker 03

  No, we're talking about classics.

• 37:49Speaker 02

  It's a new western. It's a modern western.

• 37:51Speaker 04

  It's a modern western. It's like almost 45 years old.

• 37:55Speaker 02

  I mean, most people think of the western genre as like the 50s and the 60s.

• 37:59Speaker 04

  Yes, it's not black and white, basically. You're right.

• 38:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, right.

• 38:04Speaker 03

  Treasures of the Sierra.

• 38:05Speaker 04

  It is in color, Doug. So I guess it does qualify as new relative to, relative to the times, to the times of your life.

• 38:13Speaker 03

  All right, let's get back to Doug's credit card game because I know he's anxious to do another one.

• 38:17Speaker 02

  No, I'm trying to keep talking about movies to avoid the second half of this game. Let's keep going.

• 38:22Speaker 03

  All right, we've gone through the transfer bonus, which is a trap. We've talked about hotels and how to do the 2% math. And we've talked about the welcome bonuses, right? That people get. Let's go for this one, Doug. The card advertises a $200 dining credit. They're going to give you 200 bucks to go dine at a specific restaurant. Now here's the deal. You normally wouldn't eat at this restaurant, but it's 200 bucks. Would you not go to the restaurant? Would you take advantage of the free $200 because you had an annual fee? And it's $200 toward the annual fee.

• 39:00Speaker 02

  No, because I don't go to restaurants anyways, because when I get a steak, I want a giant fat Costco steak that at a restaurant is going to cost 200 bucks for just the piece of meat. No, I'm eating at home because I can have two of them for less than what I would have paid at the restaurant. Or I'm making myself eggs. I can make a dozen eggs. No one's judging. They don't do that at the restaurant for you. So screw that. I'm never using the $200 bonus at a restaurant.

• 39:29Speaker 03

  Well, and here's the thing, OG, I think, well, I don't know if Doug got this one or not, but the.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  It's wrong.

• 39:34Speaker 03

  The $200 credit is really more about the evaluation period. A lot of people will justify the annual fee by looking at all the cool stuff. And you referenced this earlier with subscriptions that you might not need, that you end up on the hook for later. But also OG, if these are things that you normally wouldn't use, that you're going to start changing your habits just to justify the $800 fee on the credit card, you shouldn't do it anyway. So if he wasn't going to go to that restaurant, don't get me wrong, I think I would use it. I think I would use the $200 credit just to try out a new restaurant at that time. But really, when I'm evaluating the credit card, I'm like, does this make up for the fee or not?

• 40:11Speaker 04

  Well, and in more likely cases than not, the $200 credit is an annual credit given to you in quarterly installments. And therefore it's $50 a quarter. And to Doug's point, that's barely going to cover a, you know, a regular meal, let alone having a beer and the gratuity and all that sort of stuff on top of it. So if you're going to do it anyway, the thing that I don't like is the advent of the couponing on the credit cards, right? Where you gotta like go on the app and like select all the things that you might be spending money on in the next month and remember to do that. That's super annoying. The annual credit thing like this example can be annoying if you're going to do it anyway, you know, just basically knocks off 50 bucks off your meal.

• 40:56Speaker 04

  I know like American Express, for example, you can spend $75 a quarter at Lululemon and they'll, they'll rebate you $75 a quarter, which in case you haven't shopped there recently is point nine pairs of shorts. So it's. So basically you're getting a pair of Lulu shorts for the same price. You could just go to Target and get a regular pair of shorts.

• 41:17Speaker 03

  I think they come up with that number on purpose, like seriously, so that you will have some money leave your wallet. So you get the feeling of, oh, I bought stuff here before. Like, you know, the whole game that retailers play.

• 41:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:29Speaker 03

  Behaviorally, if you've never shopped at a store, you have trouble reaching into your wallet. But once you've done it one time, all these behavioral studies show that once you've done it one time, then your card comes out of your wallet much easier. Oh, it's Home Depot. I always spend money here. But if it's the first time.

• 41:46Speaker 04

  Percent of your spending, I'm kind of curious about this because you've talked a bunch about the card and the metal and this and you know, whatever the, the, the panache factor. What percent of your daily spending is tap to pay now versus getting the card out of your wallet? Like that you use your phone with.

• 42:04Speaker 03

  No, that's interesting. Cheryl uses tap to pay for everything. Uses tap to pay a hundred percent. And it's frustrating when an institution does not use tap to pay. I've never put it on my phone because I know myself really well and I need every little bit of friction I can get. So for me, I 100% always reach into my wallet and feel the credit card come out, hand it to the person. How about you? You tap to pay?

• 42:29Speaker 04

  Yeah. I mean, it is predominantly that now. Yeah. I mean, even restaurants now just have it. They have the little device and you know, they've tried to figure out how to handle the awkwardness of the gratuity. And I think the best way that I've found that some places do is they like literally bring you the tap to pay thing, set it down and go, and this is ready for you when you are. And they just walk away.

• 42:53Speaker 03

  And then the screen has it right there.

• 42:55Speaker 04

  Yeah. The old school like we'll leave the receipt and then you write the tip in and then you close the pad folio thing and you leave and then they get to find out how much money they make. You know, it's like this fun game because the hovering thing is kind of weird, right? When they're like, hey, it's going to ask you a question. You know, they got their, their puppy dog with them and the puppy dog's looking all sad. Like, I'm going to get a tip, right? And you're like, okay, fine. 20%. But you really wanted to give them zero.

• 43:22Speaker 03

  Cause, cause it was horrible service.

• 43:23Speaker 04

  Yeah. I don't even tip. I, I still tip people for horrible service. It's a whole different, we could, we could do a whole episode on tipping culture.

• 43:30Speaker 03

  I went through what was pretty much a buffet, serving myself.

• 43:34Speaker 04

  I would never tip for that. Zero dollars.

• 43:36Speaker 03

  At the end, it says tip on the end of it. I'm like, are you kidding me? It was a make your own ice cream place. Like you put on these plastic gloves and then you put your own ice cream in and you know, the sprinkles on top and stuff.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  If I have to stand up or have any part to play in getting food to me, there's zero tip.

• 43:54Speaker 04

  Yeah. A hundred percent.

• 43:55Speaker 03

  And who I feel bad for there is the employee of that restaurant because the owner, the owner has sold them on the fact that, hey, you know, you're going to get tips. So I'm only going to pay you dirt. And then the employee gets taken advantage of, which frustrates all of me. Don't get me wrong. Not my problem, but still incredibly frustrating.

• 44:14Speaker 04

  Yeah. If you make my drink, I'll give you a dollar. If I gotta make my own drink, if it's like, like how about self-serve coffee where there's like a little tip thing? Where do they go? You go, hey, I'll just take a black coffee. They go, oh, the self-serve coffee is right there. It'll be, you know, 250 and you're like ding. And then it goes tip. You're like, no.

• 44:30Speaker 03

  What are you talking about?

• 44:32Speaker 04

  Like I'm doing it myself.

• 44:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:34Speaker 04

  You made it and said, hey, how many creams and sugars do you want in it? Okay. Here's a buck.

• 44:38Speaker 03

  But you know what? I've been behind people and I can't help but look and they hit.

• 44:41Speaker 04

  People just don't like the awkwardness of it.

• 44:43Speaker 03

  They still tip.

• 44:43Speaker 04

  People don't like the awkwardness.

• 44:44Speaker 03

  Yeah. It just, it sucks so bad. I've got an example of the discounts at a campfire a couple of years ago. I've talked about this in a few places. They were comparing point programs for hotels and Hyatt's point program far better than Marriott or Hilton's, even though, and to our point earlier about degradation of points. So I, I go in, I start accumulating Hyatt points. They devalue the program at the beginning of this year. Oh gee. So to your point about don't hang on to points, there's one. Number two though, was the Hyatt credit card. The Hyatt credit card comes with a few perks, but the big one is a free room a year. The annual fee for

• 45:27Speaker 03

  the Hyatt credit card is 95 bucks. If you're going to stay at a Hyatt anyway, why would I not carry this in my wallet and have the annual fee covered by a stay that I was going to make anyway? So in that case, I think we illustrate two things. Number one is that something I was going to use already justifies the annual fee. Number two is don't hoard points because they're constantly devaluing them. All right, Doug, we got another one for you because I know you're just jumping at the bit for another one of these. Round number five, restaurant A Doug gives you five X points if you eat there. Restaurant B gives you two X points if you

• 46:09Speaker 03

  eat there. Of course you like restaurant B better. Where are we going to eat?

• 46:14Speaker 02

  I'm going to take a response from OG and say, ask and answer. There is no restaurant, as much as I like to eat and it's a considerable portion of what drives me, I will never choose a restaurant based on points. Sorry, but points at a restaurant is just not going to motivate me. It's just not going to, neither one of them is going to get me to make a choice.

• 46:38Speaker 03

  And I think the point is, is that it truly shouldn't motivate you.

• 46:41Speaker 04

  What if they don't judge you based on your 12 egg order?

• 46:47Speaker 02

  If, if I were worried about getting judged on that, I would have stopped a long time ago. No, I don't. I couldn't care less what that, that second glance when, when I say, I will have all of your eggs.

• 47:00Speaker 03

  Let's lean into this. And Doug, you're off the hook now. Congratulations. Nice work on that.

• 47:05Speaker 02

  I got them all right, didn't I?

• 47:06Speaker 03

  Yes. A thousand percent right. Good work.

• 47:08Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 47:09Speaker 03

  There is a game, OG, for people that are going to play the points game. And this is why we leave Doug here because Doug likes the simplicity. For people that don't, I want to spend a couple of minutes on really where the opportunity is when you look at the points guy. And this is stacking points. If you can stack a point program on top of a point program, this is truly a place to win. So when you, when you do this, number one, which credit card gives you the better reward? I use a very simple sticker system so that I knew which one's going to do. Number two is also OG, to your point, do you know enough about the perks of each card that they maybe give you a discount? I didn't know. You told me this about our company

• 47:50Speaker 03

  card for stacking benchments. You're like, we already get that. I'm like, we do? You're like, yeah, you need to look at the perks of having this particular credit card. That was incredible. Know what perks you already have available. Number three, do any of the shopping or travel portals give you points on top of points? I saw a piece about Hyatt where if you book it through a specific portal, you'll get points for the portal and you'll also get the Hyatt points and it's the same price as if I went directly through Hyatt. Like if they're marking up the price, well then maybe not, maybe not worth it.

• 48:23Speaker 04

  Today's episode brought to you by Hyatt. Joe really likes Hyatt.

• 48:27Speaker 03

  Check for the transfer bonuses. Are there transfer bonuses that are going to happen? Are there transfer partners? And it seems like now, OG with AI, it's easier than ever to see if these points stack.

• 48:38Speaker 04

  From a redemption standpoint, there's a great place called points.me. That's what I use. I know a lot of people use it also where you basically can say, hey, here's what I'm planning to do. Here's all the, here's all the stuff I got. I got chase points and Amex points and Marriott points and Hyatt points. And I got all the things. What can we make happen to make this a, you know, a great value? And they can figure it out for you there.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  It seems to me that all of this discussion about should we get these cards and how do we use the cards that have the points? What they're really trying to do, what these card companies are really trying to do is to get you to buy things you wouldn't otherwise have bought. Right? So this isn't about what your goals are. This is about getting you to spend in excess of whatever your goals were going to be. We can say, well, I was going to travel to the UK anyways. Maybe not. Maybe I wasn't going to go there, but because I get this card that gives me airline points, maybe I will go there now. And I don't like how that erodes what my

• 49:43Speaker 02

  true core planning, financial planning and long-term financial independence planning is. So it's, it's one of the reasons why I, I know, I guess I know myself well enough to know, I probably would start doing that if I had the food card or the, the traveling card, whatever. That's my concern with all of these things is that it's just, it's, it's nefarious and sneaky.

• 50:08Speaker 03

  It is nefarious and sneaky, but what's interesting about it is if it's something that you already like, I like going to a place that I didn't know I was going to go two weeks before. I had this trip that was canceled. A friend of mine got hurt. We were supposed to go to Santa Fe, New Mexico. All of a sudden I have with American Airlines, I can go any place, assuming that the fee, you know, the airline fee is going to be equal to or less. So I already have paid for the flight. The hotel was canceled. I already have the time away. Now I can go to a place, went to Charleston, South Carolina. Two weeks before I had no idea where I was going. Spent a lovely week in Charleston. If you like playing that game ahead of time, then that's great. If it's going to make you do things that you wouldn't have done

• 50:50Speaker 03

  anyway. It was funny when we were even evaluating this, Doug, just looking at the fact that I could have gone to Hawaii. I could have gone to Paris. I would have had to pay a little bit more, right? For those places. But for me, that was, that was part of the game. So I think it starts with pay the statement in full. OG, you made that note right at the top. Never spend specifically, and this is Doug, your rub, right? Don't spend specifically to earn the reward. You're afraid that you do that. Companies want you to do that. Spend specifically to earn the reward. Know what your points are roughly before redeeming and know how to do that 2% math, which is much easier than it sounds. Just get rid of the last two places on the points and double the number of points. There you go. There's the cash equivalent.

• 51:35Speaker 03

  Never transfer points without a plan. Don't just transfer points from one wide portal into a smaller one. I love the comedian reference. Don't like gift cards. And then reevaluate every annual fee. Does that annual fee actually make sense before you do it? That's the one on one. I feel like OG people don't get before they go to someplace like the points guy. They just jump into the points guy. Next thing you know, you're knee deep with five different credit cards that you're really not sure why you have them. And you're spending all this money on annual fees and having dinners at places where you wouldn't eat and going on trips.

• 52:08Speaker 04

  Just giving shot after shot to OG. All of a sudden, I didn't see why we had to do that.

• 52:12Speaker 03

  Is that you?

• 52:12Speaker 04

  To finish this up, but okay.

• 52:13Speaker 03

  Did you do that?

• 52:14Speaker 04

  What?

• 52:15Speaker 03

  Did you?

• 52:15Speaker 04

  I don't know. You're breaking up.

• 52:20Speaker 03

  I think the point here is we love points. We love perks. We love status and we really love telling ourselves that an expensive thing is basically free because it went on our spreadsheet.

• 52:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:33Speaker 03

  Cash might be the answer. Points might be the answer, but you really begin with you. And I also like OG to really wrap this up. If you're going to do the points game, consider it your side hustle because it truly, if you're going to dive into it.

• 52:46Speaker 04

  If you're going to do it. Yep.

• 52:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. Your financial plan shouldn't serve your points. Points should serve your financial plan. And remember, the big part of that side hustle is stacking points. Cause when you could start stacking this welcome bonus on top of this portal bonus, on top of this bonus, on top of that bonus. Man, some people that I know go lots of places for free. Other people go lots of places and they run up credit cards. Not a great idea. All right. Let's mosey out on the back porch, Doug. We got a big field kit training tonight.

• 53:18Speaker 02

  Is this like when I was in Boy Scouts and they taught me how to pitch a tent?

• 53:22Speaker 03

  Kind of like that, but with your money, with your money.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  We light it on fire. We can like rub some nickels together and see if we can create a spark and light our money on fire for a camp.

• 53:31Speaker 03

  We're going to show you how to very simply track your budget, track your net worth, get your privacy back. All these people that are selling your data, track your credit, get rid of subscriptions. It's all in one place. We're doing that stackers tonight on YouTube, 8:30 Eastern time, 5:30 Pacific. Of course, that means 7:30 Central, 6:30 Mountain Time. You know how I know that Doug? Cause I know my time zones. That's why.

• 54:01Speaker 02

  Congratulations.

• 54:01Speaker 03

  8:30 Eastern time. Stacking Benjamins YouTube page. Just go to YouTube, put in stacking Benjamins and you'll see that we're doing a field kit walkthrough. I love these because people ask so many good questions. We've done two of them so far and it's great to see two groups of people. Number one, users of field kit, learning how to make even more happen with it. But then number two, love seeing people go, you know, how come I don't have field kit? This is the thing that I was looking for, which is why we created it. It was actually the thing I was looking for. So going to be great. All right. Big thanks to all of you for hanging out with us today. If you know somebody who's contemplating the

• 54:42Speaker 03

  credit card points game, before you send them off to that points place, maybe direct them to this episode, because I think you want the 101 of where to start before you get down and dirty. Cause maybe Doug's way of doing this, where you just go, you know what? Cash back. Might just be a better way to handle the entire thing. Hope to see a bunch of you tonight on YouTube, but for right now, Doug, you've got it from here, man. What should we have learned on today's show?

• 55:09Speaker 02

  Well, Joe first, take some advice from you and OG. Credit card offers begin with your lifestyle and work backwards. Second, the best part of playing the credit card reward game is avoiding interest. That is the biggest reward any credit card can offer. After that, learn to stack your points, just like you're stacking Benjamins. But the big lesson, don't ask Joe's mom if she's going to offer points for frequent garden weeding. She'll just tell you she's in development mode and send you outside to pull more weeds.

• 55:45Speaker 02

  This show is the property of SB Podcast LLC, copyright 2026 and is created by Joe Saul Sehi. You'll find out about our awesome team at stackingbenjamins.com along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello. And oh yeah, before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor Doug, and we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.

• 57:17Speaker 03

  Welcome to the after show. This is the part of the show that has nothing to do normally with money. It's also the hidden part of the show. Doug, I saw a clip for a show. I had no idea what the show was until you just mentioned it. You saw a Netflix, a show about Lizzie Borden.

• 57:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. So Monster is, it's a series, I guess I'll say, they only do like, I'll say one a year. And they focused on a, on a different murder or mass murder, not whatnot. That's not the right term. Serial killer each time. They did the Menendez brothers as an example. Well, this installment is Lizzie Borden from Fall River, Massachusetts in 1892, I believe. You better buckle up watching this thing. It is intense. It is

• 58:16Speaker 02

  incredibly visual and graphic. When you think that this is based even a little bit on a true story, it sticks with you, man. Some of the imagery and some of the, the acting, especially the acting, this sticks with you. So there's probably.

• 58:34Speaker 03

  The beginning of this, even the little clip that I saw, which was largely about, I think it's her mother and what a, what a horrible person her mother is.

• 58:44Speaker 02

  Really a horrible person. Yeah. I mean, you get why Lizzie did what she did.

• 58:51Speaker 03

  Just snapped.

• 58:52Speaker 02

  It feels like justifiable.

• 58:53Speaker 03

  I might not have gone that far. I might not have gone that far.

• 58:57Speaker 02

  But, but I would say what really stood out to me in this, the, the general production quality feels like a super dark, macabre version of a Wes Anderson movie. And the acting is astounding. Even the one character that I'd say was not, or the one actor who was, was maybe not quite as good as, as the rest of the cast is still, would be a standout performance in almost any other show or movie that you would watch. Just incredible performances. Not many people that you will, other than Charlie, is it Hunam or Hunam? Other than

• 59:39Speaker 02

  him, and you, people might recognize him. He's the father. I don't think there's anybody here that, that I know is like a recognizable face, even though the mother that you talked about, she's been in plenty of other stuff. I just didn't recognize her.

• 59:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, I recognized her. Actually, I kept saying, is this her? Is this her?

• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:01Speaker 03

  And turns out, yes, it was.

• 1:00:02Speaker 02

  And she was in, she's been in a number of, of pretty, I'll say, big, popular slash big budget movies. I just didn't spot her, but that doesn't mean anything because I don't want to watch a lot of those anyways. I would recommend this highly, but you better be prepared for, there's a lot of graphic. I mean, look, I'm not telling any secrets. Everybody knows Lizzie Borden killed her parents with an axe. So it's, it's as graphic as you could imagine, but.

• 1:00:32Speaker 03

  Spoiler. She just said spoiler alert.

• 1:00:35Speaker 02

  From 1892.

• 1:00:38Speaker 03

  I can't believe you spoiled the whole. Why don't we watch it now?

• 1:00:42Speaker 02

  But, but yeah, and then it goes backwards in time to some of the, the things that sort of motivated Lizzie. And I mean, back in time, I mean, like a couple hundred years. It goes forward in time at one point and Sarah Paulson makes a, makes an appearance. I wouldn't even say cameo because it's more than that, but she's amazing. She's, she's amazing actor.

• 1:01:06Speaker 02

  So yeah, would, would recommend this, but the, the asterisk just has to be, you better have the stomach for it, just because of how much evilness there is, and not even just the act of the killing, but all of the stuff that motivates her to do the killing.

• 1:01:24Speaker 03

  Sounds like this is up OG's alley.

• 1:01:27Speaker 02

  I think, I think it's too arty for him. Honestly, it's a pretty, a pretty arty, artistic presentation of all of this. So I don't know that that fits with him, but the violence part.

• 1:01:38Speaker 03

  He just wants artistic bloodshed. He just wants mom to blow up.

• 1:01:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:42Speaker 03

  If Lizzie Borden would have taken hand grenades and blown up mom, I'd be like, alright.

• 1:01:46Speaker 02

  In slow mo.

• 1:01:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, not my jam.

• 1:01:49Speaker 02

  It's definitely not your jam.