The One Financial Conversation People Avoid (Plus a Discussion about Stress and Money) SB1874

There are three words that quietly end up costing more than almost any bad investment: "he handles it." Not because delegating is wrong, but because somewhere between division of labor and total disengagement, a line gets crossed that most couples never notice until a crisis forces them to. This episode is about that line, and about the less obvious ways money stress shows up when it's not just a spreadsheet problem, it's a physical one. Jill Schlesinger and Kristy Talorico both join the show, and each brings something you didn't know you needed to hear. What You'll Walk Away With The real difference between splitting responsibilities and losing all visibility into your own financial lifeA simple, low-stakes way to start a money conversation with a partner who's checked out, without triggering defensivenessWhy financial advisors dread meeting a client's "uninvolved" spouse for the first time after a deathWhat actually happens to your financial life if your money-handling spouse suddenly can't do it anymoreHow financial stress physically changes your body, according to a major new health studyWhy the standard advice to "just put more in your 401k" completely misses people who are financially struggling right nowThe surprising first place financial counselors suggest looking before you take out any kind of loanA behind-the-scenes look at how employers are (and aren't) using workplace benefits to actually help peopleWhy This Matters Now In your 40s, you're often the connective tissue for your whole household's financial life, sometimes for a spouse, sometimes for aging parents, sometimes for kids just starting out. It's easy to assume that as long as someone in the relationship understands the money, everyone's fine. But real financial confidence means everyone involved has at least a working map of where things stand. This episode isn't about becoming an expert. It's about making sure "I don't really know" is never the answer when it matters most. From the Basement Doug's trivia question drags in an unexpected lesson about knowing what things actually mean, not just recognizing the name, which somehow ties together German car history and financial literacy in the same segment. Basement logic, but it works. Resources Mentioned Money Moves with Jill Schlesinger https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/money-moves-with-jill-schlesinger/id1571134573 — Jill's new podcast with Mark TalercioJill on Money podcast https://www.jillonmoney.com — Jill Schlesinger's long-running personal finance show"The Most Dangerous Words I Hear From Married Couples: 'He Handles It'" https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/the-most-dangerous-words-for-married-couples — the Kiplinger piece referenced in the episodeBrightside Financial Care https://gobrightside.com — Kristy Talorico's company, financial care benefits for employersFindhelp.org https://www.findhelp.org — the free navigation tool for local financial and hardship resources See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Maybe it's time we talked. Kiplinger calls it the trillion dollar talk, a conversation about inheritance, estate planning, wills, and the questions families should be asking before those decisions become urgent, because knowing what your family wants and having a plan for it can be one of the most important financial conversations you will ever have. Ready to start yours? Visit kiplinger.com to learn more about the trillion dollar talk and what this historic wealth transfer could mean for your family.

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• 1:02Speaker 02

  Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom.

• 1:07Speaker 03

  Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor Duggan. Hold on, Tuesday? Tuesday in SB? Well, go ahead and pinch yourself, because that's right. To get you ready for our financial action month kicking off next week, we're bringing you some awesome special shows. First, you've heard those people who say, "Oh, my spouse takes care of that." Well, CBS business analyst and host of the Jill on Money podcast joins us to share why

• 1:52Speaker 03

  that's a problem and what you can do if you have a friend, spouse, or significant other who refuses to learn about money. And then we'll take the most important break of the day for my incredible trivia question, bonus trivia, and how about yet another

• 2:10Speaker 03

  Okay, you've got it. In the second half of today's show, how much stress is your money situation causing? If it's a lot, you know what's not making it better? Your workplace benefits and education. One woman is with a firm trying to help the world change that. We'll chat with Christie Talarico from Brightside Financial Care. All that on a Tuesday? You betcha. And now here comes a guy who's got the microphone hot, Joe.

• 2:44Speaker 00

  Hey there, stackers. Happy Tuesday. How often have you heard me say those words? Welcome to the greatest money show on earth, the Stack Your Benjamin Show. We're super happy that you're here. We are happy to be here on a Tuesday. In fact, the guy skipped to the microphones here with me, Mr. OG. How are you, man?

• 3:02Speaker 04

  Skippity do dah. Fantastico. I love working extra days. Thank you for the overtime pay.

• 3:09Speaker 00

  Well, the good news is we're actually going to give you kind of an easy day because you're here to help us introduce stuff and maybe we can talk about your air conditioning situation later on on your side of the basement because it's not good right now, huh?

• 3:24Speaker 04

  It wasn't good and then it's good now. Yeah. It's a whole story arc.

• 3:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's hard to keep up. Hard to keep up. One person it's also hard to keep up with because she's always doing something new and fun. Jill Schlesinger coming down to the basement. Maybe, maybe one of my favorite people in personal finance. Well, definitely one of my favorite people. And I will tell you, I've said this myself, the Jill on Money Show is the show that goes with me when I'm out walking, when I used to run before, before my ankle injury. Jill on Money, when it comes to personal finance, just loves the way she tackles questions, loves the way Jill thinks and super happy that she's gonna extend her expertise that she has,

• 4:11Speaker 00

  not only on the Jill and Money Show, but also on CBS News.

• 4:14Speaker 03

  She's everywhere.

• 4:15Speaker 00

  Here in mom's basement today. Yeah. And then Christie Talarico, you know, OG, when people look at their HR benefits, we miss a huge swath of people, according to recent data that just came out. The data in your benefit says, hey, put more money in your 401k. There's a big portion of the workforce that Doesn't have any idea where that money would come from. Like they're so worried about tomorrow's dinner that they don't know where it's going to come from. So Christie Talarico going to talk about how we solve that problem. And if you're a stacker and you know, somebody who's struggling, maybe this is the perfect episode for them. Or you've got somebody like Doug that just doesn't want to learn about personal finance. We're going to talk to Jill about that. We've got a

• 4:56Speaker 00

  fantastic, I love the look. I just got the look. Oh gee, did you see that? It was fantastic.

• 5:03Speaker 03

  Just over here cruising Facebook, not paying attention, and then you're just taking shots at me.

• 5:09Speaker 00

  People are wondering, why are we doing five episodes this week? It's because Financial Literacy Month is every April. And you know, that's fine. It's good that you'd learn more, but without doing anything, it doesn't matter. So next month, we're calling Financial Action Month. And to get you rolling on it, you've heard of bingo, time for you to play Stacko. If you go to stacky benjamins.com/ stacko, you can get your board. And over the next month, we're going to talk about some easy financial moves you can make to send your personal financial situation skyrocketing. Just what you want to have happen. stackybenjamins.com/ stacko to get your bingo

• 5:53Speaker 00

  board, your stacko board to have fun with us next month. All right. Speaking of fun, Jill Schlesinger upstairs talking to mom, we're going to hear from a couple of sponsors who help us keep on keeping on. And then we're talking to Jill on money, Jill Schlesinger coming down to mom's basement. Well, you may know the chaos is the name of the game here in mom's basement. What with guests coming in and out, Cooper, the cat getting in the way, Doug being, well, being Doug, the holidays make it even worse because it's all about food and big meals. And the problem is prepping for those takes forever. But what about those between meals, right? The meals between those

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• 7:30Speaker 00

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• 8:15Speaker 00

  Well, I'm super happy. This woman's back with us. Jill Schlesinger's here. How are you?

• 8:22Speaker 05

  Well, you can see I'm still in my Knicks high. So I just want to point that out to all of your listeners and viewers, whoever, however they access you, that I'm an old Knicks fan who was a fan in the seventies. Yeah, I'm that old. It was a long time coming. So when announcer Mike Breen said, oh, go ahead and cry. We were crying. It was amazing. Anyway, hi.

• 8:44Speaker 00

  Everybody, that whole town was, was crazy.

• 8:46Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 8:47Speaker 00

  I was there. Unfortunately, I didn't get to see you, but I was there when they made it to the finals and it was a madhouse then, Jill.

• 8:54Speaker 05

  Funny, you were here and didn't see me because you were here and you didn't reach out to me.

• 8:58Speaker 00

  Well.

• 8:58Speaker 05

  So this is here comes the Jewish guilt. Here it comes.

• 9:00Speaker 00

  Let's move, let's move on.

• 9:01Speaker 05

  Moving on.

• 9:04Speaker 00

  I can only spend so much time around my heroes, you know?

• 9:08Speaker 05

  I'm your hero.

• 9:10Speaker 00

  All right, let's get into this because one of my favorite recent pieces that I read came from Kiplinger. Financial planner Tracy Burns wrote this about what she called the most dangerous words she heard from married couples during her years as a financial advisor. And those words were, he handles it. But Jill, tell me how you really feel. I'd actually like to make this bigger. I want to set this up because what worries me isn't husbands or wives. It's anytime somebody says they handle it, right?

• 9:43Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:43Speaker 00

  My advisor handles it. My spouse handles it. Accounting handles it.

• 9:46Speaker 05

  How about my dad? My dad handles it. My mom, my parents. I know. It's like, I think that when you and I were in the business, which was 100 years ago, we ran into this in a very gendered way, most of the time, right? Like, it was like, oh, my husband handles this.

• 10:01Speaker 00

  Almost always.

• 10:02Speaker 05

  It's the 90s. That's what it was. Now, I am shocked to find out that so often, it's now with my new show with Money Moves, which I'm going to do the shameless plug, obviously, that when we are hearing from younger people, a lot of people are talking about how their parents are doing their stuff. So I am one of those people who's like, kind of, I think you are too. It's like, you get very uncomfortable when somebody has outsourced they a job and you basically just walk away from it. Which is not to say that all of us in committed relationships don't have a division of labor. But division of labor does not not mean

• 10:42Speaker 05

  you're uninterested, uninvolved, and don't know. That's where the line is quite clear to me. What about you? What do you think, Joe?

• 10:50Speaker 00

  No, 100%. There's a, there's a story we did recently about a family, you might have seen this in the Wall Street Journal, Jill, about their 17-year-old son is their financial advisor, quote unquote. And then we talked about, you know, as a 17-year-old, even if they know a ton, do they have enough life experience to truly advise mom and dad? But but let's do this. Let's, every family, you mentioned this, every family divides responsibilities. One person cooks, one person schedules vacations, maybe one person pays the bills.

• 11:19Speaker 00

  What is really wrong with this picture of dividing responsibilities?

• 11:24Speaker 05

  I don't have a problem with dividing responsibilities. I have a problem with uninvolved and don't know. So let's drill down on this. Obviously, a vacation, no biggie. But let's go to the bill pay. Example, I pay the bills in my household. I know that's shocking to you.

• 11:42Speaker 00

  Why? You know zero about this stuff.

• 11:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, so my wife, I sit down with her and I'm like, let me show you exactly the bill paying system that I have developed, which is not perfect. You know, like, we all get into ruts, but why do I do that? Not because I really think she's going to take over at any time, although I'm happy to actually have her do it at, you know, and have the role reversal. But let's just pretend, I don't know, like, I drop dead tomorrow. God forbid, poo poo poo.

• 12:09Speaker 00

  That's funny. I used to call it the bus test. I would tell my clients, I'm like, my job is not to take this from you. My job is if I get hit by a bus, you're smarter about this stuff tomorrow than you are today.

• 12:19Speaker 05

  Absolutely. So, okay, let's do your, use your bus, because I used this in my first book, when I said my great fear was getting hit by the M57, which comes swinging around the West End Avenue, right near the broadcast center. Okay, so you get hit by a bus. Now, your partner, your girlfriend, your boyfriend, your husband, your wife, has no idea how to pay the bills? I mean, what? That seems insane. And let's take it a step further. Let's say that not only do they not know how to pay the bills, but they have no idea, like, where the money really is? Where are the accounts? Who are the people that you're, they're talking to? Is there an advisor? Where's the estate planning document?

• 12:58Speaker 00

  Even something as simple as what are the passwords to get in?

• 13:01Speaker 05

  Exactly, exactly. I mean, oh my, everyone should have one password, but I don't. Like, that service one password, there's some way to do it. We all have this crazy list of passwords that's floating around somewhere. But yes, you've got to know where that is. You know, listen, I feel like I have honed this. This is so embarrassing for me to say to you, but like, when my dad died in 20, so we had, my father-in-law died in 2011. My own father died in 2013. It was like a crash course in how much of a pain in the neck it is to deal with these types of issues after someone dies. And my dad actually gave me the list of passwords, gave me the list of accounts, but there were a few things he like forgot to put on some,

• 13:44Speaker 05

  you know, in one place or another. And, you know, frankly, my mother had no idea, zero. So it was incumbent upon me to be the, like, I was trying to, kind of write about this, talk about this ad nauseam, because I feel like these are avoidable issues. And I'm sure that you have heard from people, spoken to people, it's like, big death is a pain. It really, it's a thing. Also, it's like dealing with all these companies, dealing with all these things. If you have the passwords and the accounts and you know, and you have a conversation and you, you have a relationship with someone, Joe, like when you were an advisor, even if there was an uninvolved spouse, weren't you like bummed when that person didn't show up to a meeting?

• 14:25Speaker 00

  I made it mandatory that they had to come.

• 14:27Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 14:28Speaker 00

  And I would spend most of my time talking to the uninvolved spouse.

• 14:31Speaker 05

  Yes, because you want there to be continuity. You want someone to feel comfortable. And by the way, the number of people who will say to me like, oh, that's his job, her job. I always say, well, it's okay to have that person be the job, but don't you have an opinion? Do you have any voice in this? I think it's, and there's, I was just at a conference with a bunch of really smart, powerful women advisors, you know, CFPs, fiduciaries. And I was talking to them and they were telling me how they have spent so much time scooping up business from other advisors. When the husband dies, the advisor has no relationship with the wife,

• 15:13Speaker 05

  and then in come the, these people who are like, you're the uninvolved spouse and no one's ever talked to you, like to your eye, you didn't have a Joe in your life or a Jill in your life?

• 15:22Speaker 00

  It's horrifying for everybody.

• 15:24Speaker 05

  Right.

• 15:24Speaker 00

  What a horrifying conversation. Hi, I'm your financial planner. I know where everything is, and I don't know you.

• 15:29Speaker 05

  Exactly. Exactly right. So let me ask you another question, though. So what is your opinion of the, you know, we know that there is, there is certainly a group of younger people, let's call them under 35, many of whom rely on their parents much longer than our generation did. How do you feel about the parents saying like, oh, my advisor will take care of your account here or your account there? What do you think about that?

• 15:58Speaker 00

  I think having a continuity, like a family financial relationship with the same person doesn't bother me. What would bother me is handing it over to a person that just because my parents use them, it doesn't mean they know anything about me. If every single person that this advisor works with is my parents' age and they don't work with people in my age group dealing with the stuff, you know, I mean, I'm a, I'm a 50 something year old dude. My kids are in their early 30s, Jill. They're dealing with completely different stuff than I'm dealing with. And is the advisor equipped to do that? Like you and I know some fantastic advisors, but the best ones go, you know what? I work

• 16:42Speaker 00

  with women 50 and older. I work with people who are in their 30s in the tech fields, you know, dealing with stock options. That's what I do all day. I like the continuity, but I want to know more about the advisor and their ability to handle my stuff, not just my parents' stuff.

• 16:58Speaker 05

  I would almost prefer if you had a firm, and I know a lot of firms will do this, where they have their younger advisors come in and they meet with the children of their clients and develop their own relationship. And I mean, I think it's very nice if the parents like, I'll pay for that. Like I will pay for your advisor relationship, but let me push you. Like this is part of your job. You want to create financially independent kids. I understand that especially if you have a parent who's like in the business or associated with the business that, but you know what? Having your own relationship where you can be completely candid with your advisor in a way that you can't be with your parent. I'm sorry, you cannot be that person. You know, what if you have to have

• 17:40Speaker 05

  that moment where you're like, my God, my parents paid for this amazing education. I have a good job, but I hate it. And now I need to think about something else. You're what? You want to have that conversation with your parent there? Uh-uh. No way.

• 17:51Speaker 00

  Not in a million years. We did a story about this, about parents helping their kids buy a house. And one mother-in-law was coming along. Imagine, oh gee, on our show said this, imagine your mother-in-law weighing in on whether the house is good for you or not.

• 18:04Speaker 05

  Dude, I cannot believe you said that. This is like, one of the things it's like up, it's like, it really kind of is amazing to me. There are so many parents who are like, I'm going to help you buy a house. I'm like, they'll come on Jill on Money, like the big show. And they'll say, I have $250,000 that I want to give my kid to buy a house. I said, does your kid want to buy a house? Well, I haven't asked. Well, uh, okay. This is what you want to do. Look, the whole reason I started Money Moves is that I felt like I could be like a, like a lover, not a fighter. I want to bring generations together. I really do. I really want generational conversations to occur that are positive.

• 18:46Speaker 05

  I don't want to hear from my coworkers that like, oh, these young kids are so, they're not lazy. They have different value systems than you do. And I, I mean, I basically have said, the whole point of Money Moves is to say to a different generation, Aunt Jill or Uncle Joe, you can come on the program with me, that we want to be there to help you, that we want to be there to be the person, the people, the kinds of resources that get where you're coming from. I feel like we need to meet people where they are. And the whole point of the programs that we produce is to say to somebody, you are where you are. You're not your parents. You grew up differently. You have a different, like you have a different angle on this. I get it, but there's no judgment in that.

• 19:31Speaker 05

  It's so much harder to do this when you're the parent. So we have to really give people the power to say like, I need to access information. I need to be able to understand what is important that I, what can I outsource? Where do I have to be involved? Basically, when it comes to your money, you should be involved, at least knowledgeable about all aspects of your financial life. And that you should really be part of a process that, and it's not an event. Joe, so many times people will be like, here's the thing that was sold to me. What should I do?

• 20:01Speaker 00

  Right, yeah. I actually got an email about that this morning. What should I do? I just had a index universal life policy sold to me. Oh, boy. And then we're, you know,

• 20:10Speaker 05

  Are we in a 10 day period? Can we just get out of it? Are we, are we good with that?

• 20:14Speaker 00

  That's where we're starting, right? I want to tackle this from two different angles because the people that listen to shows like yours and like Stacking Benjamins are generally the money geek in the family, right?

• 20:27Speaker 05

  Totally.

• 20:27Speaker 00

  They're jonesing on this. So let's do this. If you're the money geek in the family and you're the person that handles it, how do you begin to involve the other person? Because what bothered me in these meetings, Jill, and it might have bothered you too, was that often the money geek was so excited.

• 20:45Speaker 00

  That they would create this Camp David frickin' summit.

• 20:49Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 20:49Speaker 00

  That the non-money geek wants nothing to do with, right? They're like, oh, my God, please. It's like, you know, when your friend loves board games and you don't, right? They want to have 45 minutes of rules because I'm that guy who wants to teach you the board game. But how do you begin to involve the person and not talk down to them and not overwhelm them?

• 21:10Speaker 05

  I want to do two things. I want to talk as if you are having a conversation at home versus with the financial advisor. Okay, so you're home and you want to have a, I think it's really smart to be able to say, let's do a quarterly financial meeting, not when we're having a fight about money, not when some event occurs, but every quarter when we get our retirement account statements, let's just sit down and make sure we're on the same page. That is a meeting where you explain, like, by the way, oh, you know, we had this strange thing happen. The market went up a lot and our accounts, which are on automatic rebalancing, were just magically put it back into our allocation. Oh, what's our allocation? It's this and this. What does that mean? It's this or this.

• 21:55Speaker 00

  What is auto rebalancing?

• 21:57Speaker 05

  It's like the best thing since sliced bread is what it really is.

• 22:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I'm saying the person might be so uninvolved, Jill, they might not even know what that means.

• 22:05Speaker 05

  And so if they don't know a term that you say, you use this as like, okay, it is a, it is a moment to be able to explain, but not talk down to. That's what you're really hoping for, right? Like, I want to have a conversation. We want, it's like anything else, you want to explain and don't use jargon. And if they don't want to do a quarterly meeting, how about twice a year? Okay, you get to do a meeting on December 1st and on June 1st. And we're just going to have a meeting. We're just going to chit chat about what it is. We're just going to go over everything. Once you get into the situation where you're like, oh, wait a minute, we're going to the advisor. Here's my best advice. Shut up.

• 22:48Speaker 05

  Say nothing. Do not make this some soliloquy or sidebar conversation with the advisor. If you would like, you can talk to the advisor ahead of time and say, I just really need you to talk to my uninvolved spouse, as if they were the only client. And I'm just going to sit in the background. And that's what I'm going to do.

• 23:08Speaker 00

  That's fabulous.

• 23:09Speaker 05

  And shut up.

• 23:10Speaker 00

  And I think it's also important, Jill, because when I was an advisor, I had, you know, a time limit on my meeting. I wasn't available forever. What was interesting, by the way, my clients didn't know that I had a timer running. I had a playlist that was the same playlist in every meeting. So I could listen to the song that was playing in the background and I knew where we were. So I could just focus on you without looking at my watch. But the advisor has to have, you know, they have to run a business. So they run so long. But I think, I think doing that at a home is important, too. My goal, when I realized Cheryl, my spouse, wasn't as involved as I had hoped, and was creating the meeting that you're talking about, I put a timer on it because I wanted to make it so that there was this thirst to have another one. Not that we would run and run

• 23:53Speaker 00

  and run and run. And because God, I could talk about this. And so could you all day. So if I set that timer kind of short, it becomes like a, your favorite Netflix show, where you get done with one. And I wanted her to go, oh, let's do that meeting again. You know, that was pretty fun.

• 24:08Speaker 05

  You know what's great? If you treat this as, of course, you're going to continue to be the one who's responsible for it, but that everyone needs to know what the game plan is. So if I'm the third string quarterback, I still have to know what the game plan is. I have to know how to run the plays. I'm probably not going to get in the game. I might, but I might not. But I have to be able to understand what is my game plan. And, you know, listen, we, you, I'm sure you've seen all the crazy stories in the books written in Bell Burden about my husband, you know, pilfered all of my money and all this stuff. That's not common. What is more common is not that like your spouse is stealing from you. What's more common is something happens to your spouse, and you are left at a period

• 24:53Speaker 05

  of time in your life when you are a complete emotional wreck. Not able to make decisions. And so having the at least base knowledge of what's going on and what is happening and who are your people, who are your resources, having that team established, I think is so important. You know, Joe, I know that you also hear a ton from do it yourselfers, right?

• 25:17Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 25:17Speaker 05

  It's like our people.

• 25:18Speaker 00

  Right.

• 25:19Speaker 05

  I always say to the do it yourselfer, you're happy doing it now. You're 40 years old, you're 30, 40, 50, maybe even 60 years old. But what happens if you cognitively cannot do it? Will you know when that time comes? What happens if you were to drop dead? Should you have a relationship with a financial advisor who you could just talk to and have your spouse, especially if there's an age disparity? We've had a couple of like interesting age differences that have come on the programs. And, and you know, it's like, well, get that person, somebody that they can talk to.

• 25:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:54Speaker 05

  And have it ahead of time.

• 25:55Speaker 00

  That's fabulous. Knowing at least which levers to pull.

• 25:58Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 25:59Speaker 00

  Is so important. I want to take this the other way.

• 26:01Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 26:01Speaker 00

  Let's say, and I love this when this happens, and I know you do too, we get the person who's listening to you and I right now, because they realize they're not involved and they need to be more involved. And so they're maybe listening to stacking Benjamins on the slide, listening to Jill on the slide, whatever. How do you reengage with the money geek? And this, you know, happens a lot too, without saying, I don't trust you. Because if it's you and I, Jill, and you've been handling the money forever.

• 26:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 26:29Speaker 00

  And I go, hey, Jill, um, what's going on with this thing? Your initial reaction is going to be you no longer trust me, which isn't the case.

• 26:38Speaker 05

  No.

• 26:38Speaker 00

  It's not the case.

• 26:39Speaker 05

  I would say, you know, I've been listening to Money Moves. I've been listening to stacking Benjamins because I really want to be a better partner to you. And I want to really understand what's going on, because they raised this amazing issue, which is what happens if your involved partner drops dead?

• 26:59Speaker 05

  Come through the front door. It's like the same way you talk to aging parents. You want to try to like worm your way in to figure out what's going on, what's really happening. And the way you talk about it is you say, my friend's mother died and the estate was such a mess and it was so scary. Do you guys have that done? So it's using either a real life example or just saying, I feel like I have not been carrying my weight. I want to be able to at least understand

• 27:27Speaker 00

  Oh, that's great.

• 27:28Speaker 05

  where the relationships are, what you're doing, and I want to be a better spouse to you. I want to, it's like almost saying like someone says, you've been doing the cooking the whole time, right? Do you watch The Bear, by the way?

• 27:39Speaker 00

  Yes, it's so intense.

• 27:41Speaker 05

  It's so intense. By the way, I went back to watch Scallop from season four. I encourage you to do that. Okay, there is a point in this show where like the master chef who has to do everything, right? I gotta do everything. If you guys don't watch, it's awesome. But then you realize if you actually empower someone else to be part of this, it's a richer experience. And so even if you're the spouse who does all the cooking, you could say to your uninvolved spouse, I love cooking. I want you to help me with the meal plan. I want you to help me with this. Or you're going to be the uninvolved spouse with cooking. You're going to be the cleaner. Fine, great. But like you know that in partnership, you share responsibility. So it's so odd to me that people completely just walk away

• 28:26Speaker 05

  from this part of their lives. So raise your hand, say you want to be a better partner because Jill and Joe, Uncle Joe and Jill have actually taught you that you can be better. By the way, Joe, what do you think when people are like, oh, I'm just bad at math? I start thinking, oh, my God. I'm like adding, subtracting? Do you know how to do that?

• 28:48Speaker 00

  And the bad news is, is it's not about the math.

• 28:50Speaker 05

  No, it's half math and half art.

• 28:53Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 28:54Speaker 05

  And the art part is way more important.

• 28:56Speaker 00

  And way more fun.

• 28:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:58Speaker 00

  Way, way, way more fun. I think the takeaway today isn't, let's talk about what it isn't. It isn't never trust anybody. It's, it's never outsource your understanding. You can absolutely delegate tasks. You can hire experts. You should lead on great advisors. You should divide responsibilities, but just make sure that you understand your financial life. You know, Jill, Everybody that listens to stacking Benjamins, well, maybe some people don't. Your show, Jill on Money, has been, I've said this out loud so many times, my go to place. It's when I've been out on my runs over the years, you've always been with me. When I just, I find the way you tackle questions so fun and so interesting.

• 29:40Speaker 00

  But I'd love it if you do something like we just did, instead of like 20 minutes. If you could talk about stuff like this, but maybe instead of me, like if there was a guy named Mark that you could do it with. Like, I think that would be perfect.

• 29:55Speaker 05

  Oh, that's a great idea for a show and we're doing that. It's so exciting.

• 30:00Speaker 00

  Just for me?

• 30:00Speaker 05

  Money Moves with Jill Schlesinger and Mark Talaricio. So, you know, by the way, Mark is mortified by all of this and you know, Mark, Mark is a behind the scenes kind of guy. But this is my, so for everyone who knows, like I had this other show called Jill on Money and Mark Talaricio is the executive producer of that show. And then behind my back, he went and got his Certified Financial Planner designation.

• 30:22Speaker 00

  I remember when he was starting that, it feels like yesterday, but it's been a long time.

• 30:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's been a while. So now when we launched this new show called Money Moves, it has been such a joy because I make Mark come on the camera with me. And this is a show that is, it is a YouTube show. You can get it with your RSS feed. Of course, you can listen to it wherever you get your podcasts, but the whole point of that show that we were like the other show, Jill on Money, was like people who had money, were established, they wanted a place to kind of talk this through. And now I really want to focus this new show on the younger people who are either starting out or maybe they're like mid-career and they really want to talk about what's going on in their financial lives, just like they do at stacking Benjamins, come on the program with us, talk to us.

• 31:09Speaker 05

  And then also we have a fun feature, Joe, you'll be so into it. It's called the TikTok takedown where we take, we take a social media clip and we kind of demystify it. We kind of rip it apart and sometimes, listen, you know, there are some people who are decent out there, but there are a lot of people who are not licensed, not registered. Putting stuff out on social media, whether it's reels or TikTok, that is nonsense. Can I tell you one of my favorite recent ones? You'll love this.

• 31:39Speaker 00

  Tell me yours, and I got one for you, Jill.

• 31:42Speaker 05

  All right. Well, this was one where it was somebody who said, you know, rich people don't pay down their mortgage. So I was like, okay, I'm good with that. What rich people do is they borrow against their investment accounts and they buy rental property. Basically, this advice was to margin your investment account and buy one, two, three, four, five rental properties. What could possibly go wrong? Do they ever talk about like what happens when the market drops? Do they ever talk about how being a landlord is not the easiest thing in the world? Do they ever talk about anything that has to do with the downside risk? No. So that was something where I was like, wait, what?

• 32:24Speaker 05

  It was just shocking. Mark wants to try to get some sort of antacid or blood pressure medication of pharmaceutical company to sponsor it because he's like, it blows his mind every time.

• 32:34Speaker 00

  It would be great. Pepto Bismol.

• 32:37Speaker 05

  Come on, Pepsi. Let's go. I want Pepto Bismol, Pepsi, Tums, Alka Seltzer. Come on.

• 32:44Speaker 00

  It's the perfect opportunity. No, uh, uh, my favorite TikTok clip might be one where a guy said, you know, you can pay for breakfast or you could save that money. And he did the math on how much money you'd save by going in the back door of the local courtyard by Marriott and stealing breakfast, pretty much walking in and having breakfast on them. And then take the money you would have spent on breakfast and invest that money. So Jill, just steal your way to success.

• 33:14Speaker 05

  Sure, sure. You know, it's what's funny about that is that particular type of financial, personal finance stuff. You know, I hate that, like that whole idea of like, don't drink a latte and you're going to be a millionaire because it's so, it's nonsensical, right? You have to live your life. I've never been a finger wagger, like, don't do this, don't spend your, I think, like, don't do things that are really bad for you. And do be aware of like choosing to spend your money in a very specific. But we had a question that came on on on money moves where someone's like, should I spend the money to go to the World Cup or not? And I'm like, yes, the events, you're not going into debt to do it. You're spending some of the money you have in savings and you're going to have do like something fun. You're going to go see Taylor Swift. You're going to go see the Knicks play basketball.

• 33:59Speaker 05

  Like, yeah, go do that. Don't go into debt to do that. Don't deplete your emergency reserve fund. But what is life? Are you living like a miser? I can't, you know me, I hate the whole FIRE movement because I'm like, that's not realistic. That's not how normal human beings want to live.

• 34:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, not a big fan of deprivation.

• 34:17Speaker 05

  No, I mean, like, I like FIRE for the idea of like financial independence.

• 34:21Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 34:21Speaker 05

  But like retire early, like, I don't know, your life's going to change quite a bit. Good luck.

• 34:26Speaker 00

  Well, it's just the fact that there's, we could talk about this all day, but just the fact that my life isn't unicorns and rainbows now, but somehow it is going to be in the future. I think that no matter where you are, you show up, you know?

• 34:37Speaker 05

  Yes. Yeah. And enjoy yourself. I mean, deprivation, that's what I think is funny about, like, when someone talks to me about being a financial planner, they're like, oh, you wouldn't tell me to spend money this way. I said, I never told somebody not to spend money on the thing they want to do.

• 34:51Speaker 00

  That's what's surprising about the field, I think, about how the good financial planners are like, no, it's just a balance.

• 34:56Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 34:57Speaker 00

  You've got to do it today.

• 34:58Speaker 05

  The thing that a financial planner might do is say, hmm, that is a big jump in a house for you. Like, you live in a $300,000 house and now you're buying a million dollar house. Let's run the numbers to see if that can work. And if you desperately want to do it, even if the numbers don't work, let's figure out the way that we can get you there or as close to there as possible. And that's the beauty of working with a planner. I mean, not that I want to be in the business anymore. I think that being around a bunch of financial planners over the last couple of days has been a really wonderful reminder to me, like, just how valuable that relationship can be when it's a good planner. If it's like a crap-o salesperson or a wirehouse person who's just selling you like, I'm going to manage your money, but not do planning for you, then yeah, no, that I don't, I don't think that's the greatest thing in the world.

• 35:43Speaker 00

  And have you seen the numbers too, Jill? We need more women in the field.

• 35:47Speaker 05

  Oh, my, I got this.

• 35:48Speaker 00

  We need more people of color in the field.

• 35:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, that CFP report was bad. That was bad, dude. It was like the same 23 or 24, 25% of women, the same like less than 10% of people of color. It's just, it's bad.

• 36:00Speaker 00

  And even listen, for old white guys, they're still not enough. I mean, we just need more people in the field, no matter who you are.

• 36:06Speaker 05

  I have like a thesis about that. Part of the challenge of the profession is that it requires people to be a salesperson. And so I think that if you're the kind of like number crunchy, do-gooder type who would want to be a financial planner, then the idea of like, oh my God, I have to go get business. Like that freaks me out. But when you turn it around and say, yes, it is sales, of course, but you are selling something that people need and want. So it's not like you're selling them an indexed universal life insurance product. You're not. And you are trying to help them manage where they want to go in their lives. What a gift that you could bring to someone's life.

• 36:47Speaker 00

  Yeah. When I realized two things, Jill, I got really good at marketing my business. Number one was that I'm not trying to sell you something that you don't want. So I don't need to shove this down people's throat. If you're not interested in your own financial security, I can't help you.

• 37:04Speaker 05

  Right.

• 37:04Speaker 00

  But if you are interested in your financial security and you want somebody to help you go faster, then yeah. And when I started presenting myself that way versus, hey, come buy stuff from me or come, you know, whatever, like I was intruding on people. I'm just a guy who helps you go faster. If you don't think that you need to go faster, then I'm not for you. And there were plenty of people. All of a sudden I was attractive to people.

• 37:28Speaker 05

  Right.

• 37:28Speaker 00

  But also life is sales. I had to sell you big time. I'm coming on Stack Your Benjamins. Jill was like, no, I'm not coming.

• 37:34Speaker 05

  Stop it.

• 37:35Speaker 00

  I would never go on that show.

• 37:37Speaker 05

  Didn't I blurb something for you? Didn't we do something fun? I was, I mean, come on. I love this guy.

• 37:42Speaker 00

  You did. You're in my book. I mean, you've done so much.

• 37:44Speaker 05

  Brilliant thing. It's like also like we are like-minded people. But also because we came from industry, it's a very distinctive way. It's like you came, you understand the industry, but you're not like out there selling something. I mean, a book here and there. Sure. I think that the misconception about what it is to get financial advice and how you can have that really help you in your life is about like, oh, it's just for rich people. Now, I'm not saying that the industry does a great job of managing the process for people who have Less than a half a million dollars. I do think that that's a tough sell, but I am encouraged because I do think that if we can use AI in a smarter way, if we really get good at that,

• 38:27Speaker 05

  or that is somehow that these big financial service companies or big financial planning firms can somehow have a lower, a different level service. If you have fewer than, if you have less than a certain amount of money than our minimum, you can use our proprietary safe AI modeling where we will have somebody meet with you once a year to review it or twice a year. If there's some way to bring people in who really do need financial guidance in a safe way using AI, I think that could be cool. I really do. I think that would be a game changer in the industry. And I hope that there is a development around that. But you're right, we need more planners, we need smarter people, we need empaths to come into the industry.

• 39:09Speaker 05

  Instead of going to be a shrink, come and be a financial planner. Because you know what I found? The greatest thing in the world is like, if you're voyeur, which basically Joe and I are, and so are shrinks, you love people. In financial planning, you get to tell them what to do. When you're a shrink, you have to get them to come to the conclusion.

• 39:28Speaker 00

  And you have to see the inside of everybody's wallet?

• 39:31Speaker 05

  Right.

• 39:32Speaker 00

  And realize we're all asking the same questions that we think are embarrassing?

• 39:35Speaker 05

  Exactly. There was a funny survey out, I think it was like Credit Karma, was like, why do you use AI? And like three quarters of the people are like, I'm too embarrassed to ask these questions.

• 39:43Speaker 00

  Wow, that's so sad.

• 39:46Speaker 05

  I know.

• 39:46Speaker 00

  But it is great. There are, to your point, there's so many opportunities. But opportunity number one, Stackers, is if you've got a non-involved person in your family, take Jill's advice today and get on it. And then number two is, pause the show right here and go subscribe to the new show.

• 40:02Speaker 05

  Money moves. You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, or check us out on YouTube. Because of course, Joe, this is the funniest thing. The most common feedback that I've gotten from people is, oh, Mark is so much more handsome than I thought.

• 40:17Speaker 00

  Mark is a handsome dude.

• 40:19Speaker 05

  Well, because he's sort of a curmudgeon gang and he's like, he's in his 40s, but he sounds like an old Italian grandmother. Sometimes he's very cranky. And so people are like, he's in his 40s and he has a full head of hair. Like, that's crazy.

• 40:32Speaker 00

  Wait, what?

• 40:33Speaker 05

  Yeah. So Money Moves, wherever you get your podcasts, but importantly, also on YouTube. So you can go check out how cute Mark is. He's married. Sorry, guys.

• 40:41Speaker 00

  He's not available, but you can still look.

• 40:44Speaker 05

  But I think it's fun because I think his wife's like, really? That's what they think? As only a spouse can tell you and keeping it real.

• 40:53Speaker 00

  We'll link to the Money Moves YouTube page, to the podcast page on our show notes, stackyourbenjamins.com in the show notes here, wherever you're getting your podcasts. Guys, we're going to throw this over to Doug, who's got a very, Jill, he's got a very interesting trivia question today. And then the second half of today's episode, Kristy Tellerico is going to join us. You know, Jill, a great place where I just read this survey that shows that so many people do so much better when they go to these workplace lunch and learns where the

• 41:21Speaker 05

  Oh, really?

• 41:22Speaker 00

  And they dive into workplace help, but nobody goes.

• 41:27Speaker 05

  I know. Those benefits are all wasted. I mean, it must make corporate America goes like, freaks out about it. Use your benefits, gang.

• 41:33Speaker 00

  Well, Kristy Tellerico is going to talk about why those don't work and how to get more out of them. So Doug, you've got it, man. Take it from here.

• 41:46Speaker 03

  Hey there, stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor Doug. And I love Joe and Jill's conversation about why it's okay to delegate your investing. Just don't delegate your understanding, which also explains why mom no longer lets me handle anything important. I used to say, don't worry, mom, I got this. Turns out that's exactly what she was worried about. And here comes Kristy Tellerico, joining us to talk about workplace benefits that can make employees happier and less stressed. Let's settle for the basement finally getting dental coverage. Maybe you can talk about that. No, no, they're shaking their heads. No, can't talk about that. Speaking of understanding how things work, on this day in 1938, one of the most famous car companies in the world was founded. Most of us have heard the name our entire lives, but very few people actually know what it means.

• 42:32Speaker 03

  So today's trivia question is this. What does the name Volkswagen literally mean in English? And no Googling on your phone. Mom already confiscated my phone after I tried to expense pizza as continuing education. I'll be back with the answer right after I convince mom that my El Camino is technically a medical expense because, you know, emotionally it supports me.

• 42:54Speaker 00

  Well, you may know that chaos is the name of the game here in mom's basement. What with guests coming in and out, Cooper the cat getting in the way, Doug being, well, being Doug. The holidays make it even worse because it's all about food and big meals. And the problem is prepping for those takes forever. But what about those between meals, right? The meals between those huge, huge bookends. Well, that's where Factor comes in. Factor is made with high quality ingredients that you recognize and trust with over 175 banned ingredients. You always know you're eating something that's good for you, even when you don't have time. It's ready in two minutes. Whether it's lunch between meetings or dinner after holiday shopping,

• 43:38Speaker 00

  Factor requires zero prep cleanup or effort from you or mom. So you can focus on everything else in your day. Factor even has heart smart options like the Green Goddess Baramundi with tomato, rice, peas, kale, and green beans, or the enchilada style chicken and sweet potatoes. Those are so good. They're crafted with lean proteins, fiber packed fruit and veggies and healthy fats. Try those out. Your heart and your taste buds will thank you. For Cheryl and I, Factor has been a great way for us to stay busy and focus on family life and beating mom at card games.

• 44:21Speaker 00

  I use Factor and you should too, so let's eat real stackers. Head to factormeals.com/sb50off. Use code SB50OFF and you know what? You're going to get 50% off and one free breakfast item per box for one year while supplies last until December 31st, 2026. That is code SB50OFF at factormeals.com. SB50OFF at factormeals.com. See website for more details. There is a financial conversation that's coming to millions of American families and there's a pretty good chance nobody wants to be the person who starts it. Inheritance. And here's why that matters.

• 45:02Speaker 00

  An estimated $124 trillion to heirs in charity is expected to be transferred by Americans over the next 20 years. It's an extraordinary amount of money, but Kiplinger's research found that 51% of adults and their parents, get this, never talk about money. And there's a pretty big disconnect. 47% of parents expect to leave a meaningful inheritance while only 24% of adult children expect to actually receive one. Nearly 30% of parents don't even have a will in place. Maybe it's time we talked. Kiplinger calls it the trillion dollar talk, a conversation about inheritance, estate

• 45:41Speaker 00

  planning, wills, and the questions families should be asking before those decisions become urgent, because knowing what your family wants and having a plan for it can be one of the most important financial conversations you will ever have. Ready to start yours? Visit kiplinger.com to learn more about the trillion dollar talk and what this historic wealth transfer could mean for your family.

• 46:07Speaker 00

  It's incredible at a small company like Stacking Benjamins, how one, one hire makes all the difference in the world. If you're a small business, the right hire can be make or break. Hoping the right people see your job posting isn't the best growth strategy. When the pressure's on, you need the right hire. This is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed Sponsored Jobs is a boost whenever you need to find quality talent. When workplace chaos hits and you need the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post even seen at other sites. Get matched with and hire quality candidates who can drive the results you need. Reach candidates that meet your specific criteria like skills,

• 46:51Speaker 00

  certifications, or locations. Sponsored jobs boost your job post on search results so you can reach the people that can help your business thrive. Plus, with Indeed Sponsored Jobs, you only pay for results. People are finding quality hires on Indeed right now. In the minute I've been talking to you, listen to this. Companies like yours have made 27 hires on Indeed, according to Indeed data worldwide. And sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. So spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, that's a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. And guess what?

• 47:35Speaker 00

  Our stackers are going to get a $75 sponsored job credit. That's you to help get your job the premium status it deserves at indeed.com/podcast. Just go to indeed.com/podcast right now and support Stacking Benjamins by saying you heard about Indeed in mom's basement. Indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

• 48:06Speaker 06

  We're looking for the answer and correct spelling. Old McDonald had a what? Farm. E-I-E-I-O.

• 48:18Speaker 03

  Hey there, stackers. I'm automotive historian and guy who still thinks the check engine light is more of a suggestion. Joe's mom's neighbor Doug. Before the break, I asked you what the name Volkswagen literally means in English. I love this question because it's exactly what Jill Schlesinger was talking about earlier. Most of us know the name, millions of people have driven one, but very few people ever stop to ask what it actually means. And that's true with money, too. A lot of us know the names 401k, Roth IRA, HSA, target date fund. But if you don't understand what they are or why they work, it's really easy to hand the steering wheel to somebody else and hope they're driving in the right direction. So whether it's your retirement plan, your benefits package,

• 49:01Speaker 03

  or even the car parked in your driveway, it pays to stay curious. So what's the answer? Volkswagen literally means the people's car. And now back to the people's host and his guest. Here comes Joe and special guest, Kristy Talarico.

• 49:19Speaker 00

  Well, maybe the bills are piling up. Maybe you're skipping the doctor because of the copay. Maybe you're laying awake, calculating which payment can wait. I've been there. You still go to work. You still answer your emails. And from the outside, you look fine. But your body might be telling a different story. Today, we're not beginning with investment returns. We're not talking retirement projections. We're starting the second half of the show here with a more urgent question. When financial stress starts affecting your sleep, your health, your relationships, or your ability to function, what should you actually do next? Kristy Talarico works with employers and working families confronting exactly those problems. Kristy, so happy you're here. Welcome to Mom's Basement.

• 50:04Speaker 07

  Thanks, Joe. It's good to be here. And I can definitely relate to that position of laying awake at night, thinking about worrying about money always on your mind.

• 50:12Speaker 00

  Oh, my goodness. And I'm sure we'll get into your company, what your company does later in the interview. But you talk to people all the time that are facing the same uncertainties. I remember this. This is the mid 90s for me, laying awake and just going, how am I getting Even face tomorrow. Before we get to any of that, I just got to ask you a personal question. Having the name Christie Talarico meant nothing like three months ago. And now like everybody in Texas and half the people in the United States are like, is she related? Your name's not even spelled the same as the guy running for the Senate.

• 50:44Speaker 07

  No, it's not. It's not spelled the same. We are not related in any way, but you know, best of luck to him and his campaign.

• 50:52Speaker 00

  To your cousin, to your new, to your new cousin.

• 50:55Speaker 07

  It's interesting how time evolves because I used to be asked if I was related to Steven Tyler from Aerosmith. And now I'm getting James instead. So it's interesting.

• 51:04Speaker 00

  Is Steven Tyler's real name Talarico?

• 51:06Speaker 07

  It is also not spelled the same, but yes.

• 51:09Speaker 00

  I did not know that. How about that? That is wild. Yeah, it's funny. So your name goes through boring periods and then through exciting periods.

• 51:17Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 51:20Speaker 00

  All right, let's get to business here because we do have people that are listening. We got some stackers, I'm sure that are in this situation, or they know people that are in this situation. One of our stackers feeling completely overwhelmed, Christie, the rent's late, credit card's maxed out, car needs work. The advice they keep hearing at work is, hey, start investing in your 401k.

• 51:43Speaker 00

  Where should that person begin instead?

• 51:46Speaker 07

  Why is that a thing? Yes, you're absolutely right. What we have found in our research via the Financial Health Network is that almost 70% of Americans are either financially coping or financially vulnerable. And we also know from the same source that 53% of working Americans have less than $500 in emergency savings. And these are people working full time. These are not people who are sitting home in front of the TV. Like they are doing their jobs and trying to provide for themselves and their families. But what we find in the workplace is that, you know, your 401k and your financial wellness solutions and the AI chatbot that will talk to you on demand for baked questions or the webinars that educate people. There are financial wellness solutions because they're designed for people who are already financially well.

• 52:32Speaker 07

  And they're not utilized by people who need to be met where they are today that needs liquidity to get to tomorrow. They're not thinking about 30 years in the future.

• 52:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, I remember back in my old career as a financial planner, the way I built my business was going into companies and I would help people set up their 401k stuff. And then because we hadn't solved the root of the problem, Kristy, these same people a month later are borrowing all the money they put in.

• 52:56Speaker 07

  Yep, exactly. Borrowing out of their 401k, applying for company hardship programs, wage garnishments, payday loans, predatory loan places. But to answer your question most directly, those people have a much more complicated journey today.

• 53:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, let's not solve HR first. Let's help our stacker solve their problem. What's the first problem to solve? Clearly, you say it's not putting money in the 401k. Is it whichever bill carries the greatest immediate consequence? Is it which one keeps me housed? Is it food? Is it utilities? Like, where do I begin?

• 53:29Speaker 07

  Yeah, I would say if I answered you statistically, based on our business, we find that over half of our clients come to us for the first time with housing insecurity. That's the first thing. So I think the answer to your question is the most urgent goal that needs to be met, because every financial problem comes down to something that needs to be accomplished. And sometimes that's keeping a roof over your head or feeding yourself and your family. And sometimes it's more complicated than that. Sometimes it's making the choice between paying the utility bill or fixing the car so you can keep physically going to work and making that paycheck.

• 54:00Speaker 00

  I'd never got to the point that I had housing insecurity, but I did wonder what I was going to do tomorrow and how I was going to keep the ship afloat the next week. Maybe then people are able to guarantee they have housing for the next week or the next month. But as you know, that only is duct tape. I remember thinking, Kristy, how do I get ahead of this game so this doesn't happen again? Like, where do I start if I'm trying to get over that hump so that I'm not worried about tomorrow? I can worry about three days from now instead.

• 54:30Speaker 07

  Right? Yeah, this is true. There are a host of resources and it's one of the things that our company provides is financial care navigation for people in those situations. So you can look at your employer's benefit ecosystem and see what tie-ins there are that can help solve a financial problem. For example, when we have people who are escaping domestic violence situations, part of that benefit ecosystem is an EAP with mental health counseling, very necessary, of course.

• 54:59Speaker 00

  For people that don't know what EAP stands for, what is that?

• 55:01Speaker 07

  An EAP is an employee assistance program that many large-scale employers have in place that can provide things like legal counseling or mental health counseling.

• 55:10Speaker 00

  Oh, cool. Okay.

• 55:11Speaker 07

  And then an additional layer to that, outside of an employer ecosystem, sits in what are local resources that are available. Depending on where you live, there could be local government hardship grants that you can be applying for. If you need to fix your car, there could be a local trade school that has students learning how to fix cars and therefore deeply discounting the cost of repairs. There could be women's shelters for housing. There could be food banks. There could be United Way chapters. There's a myriad of different things. The problem is, someone who is so overwhelmed and has these perpetually raised cortisol levels because they're obsessively worried about money, it's overwhelming. It's a lot. So it comes down to getting them help.

• 55:52Speaker 00

  If people are going to ask for help, I know the first thing that any of these institutions are going to do, sadly, they're going to make you prove it, right? That you need help. So before I ask for help, what do I gather? Do I gather my bills, my pay stubs, my benefit information, my eviction shut-off notices? Like, what evidence are people going to ask for that will let me get the help that I need?

• 56:13Speaker 07

  So if you are working with an employer that has our financial care benefit available, the only thing that you need to do is download our app and enter your first and last name and your date of birth and the last four digits of your social security number. And that's the only eligibility check that we need to do to ensure that you're an employee of the company that we're working with. So that's very simple. And then, once that happens, you're very quickly connected with a financial care assistant and telling them what your problem is. And usually, we get greeted with, "I need a loan to meet this goal." And we start the conversation there. And what we usually do is put a pause on that and start digging down into what is the root cause of that need and then work on solving it.

• 56:53Speaker 00

  Right. And we should talk about the name of your company, too. It's Brightside Financial. We'll dig into exactly what you guys do, but let's say they don't have access to Brightside, Kristy. I know every local institution is going to be a little different, but there's got to be some things that would be best for our average stacker to put in front of whoever these officials are.

• 57:12Speaker 07

  I think an average stacker, if they need to give themselves help quickly, can start with a place called Find Help, which is a navigation portal where they can plug in their zip code and a little bit about their need and receive a list of options that is kind of curated to what they're telling them that they need. If it's a financial problem, if it is needing a loan, whatever it is, that can help them in the short term. And, you know, I know we'll talk about kind of the employer benefit option. In the longer term, in terms of proof, I don't know so much about proof. Right. I think with 70% of the working country being financially vulnerable, this is a very popular conversation. And coming as you are to whatever your resource is, is the first thing that you have to do.

• 57:53Speaker 00

  I like that. Just don't worry about all the stuff. Just go get help.

• 57:56Speaker 07

  Just go get help. Yes. Yeah. And navigate one question at a time. I think if people get in their heads, okay, well, I have to bring my utility bill and all of my paperwork around my lease and all of my ID. It could be too overwhelming too quickly. Go to that first place to go get that first layer of help and then just take it one question at a time, one step at a time.

• 58:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, don't try to eat the whole elephant. It's interesting. You said the average person that you guys work with comes and they go, I need a loan. It is funny because I used to speak to high schoolers a lot. I went into this local high school and I was a resource a few times a year and they would always, I'd always do Q and A. And every single question, not every single one, I'd say 99% of questions, Kristy, were, how do I get into debt over my head? Like, they didn't ask it that way. But this high school junior goes, how do I get a loan for a truck? How do I get a mortgage? How do I get a credit card? How do I get a... Every question was a form of debt. There were very few questions about saving. And this is how ingrained this is in our culture, right? I just need a loan.

• 58:58Speaker 00

  And I remember when I felt that too, I was like, I don't care how I pay. Pay it back. I can't think about how I'm going to pay it back. If I just get access to capital, then I can think for the next six weeks and hopefully in the next six weeks, I'll figure out some way to get that done. You said that you often put that on hold, which I think is really cool because the first place I've seen people go is like a payday loan, a cash advance, a high cost installment loan, a new credit card, something that's going to help you just dig the hole faster.

• 59:28Speaker 07

  Yes, you'll be deeper in the hole. How do you put a pause on that?

• 59:31Speaker 00

  Well, what do you do when you pause it? What are you guys doing instead if you're putting a pause?

• 59:37Speaker 07

  Well, can I tell you a quick story?

• 59:38Speaker 00

  No, let's do it.

• 59:39Speaker 07

  All right. So let me tell you a little bit about Daisy. So Daisy was one of our clients and she reached out to us via the app and she greeted us in the same way that many of our clients greet us. Hey, I need a loan. I need $1,800. That's it. Not hello, I need, I need an $1,800 loan.

• 59:54Speaker 00

  Right.

• 59:55Speaker 07

  So our financial assistant said, okay, you know, first thing, understood. I heard you. I hear you that you need $1,800. Positive reinforcement. I think it's great that you're looking for help and emphasis on I'm going to help you reach your goal. The practice is called hope science. Build a belief in this human being that they're going to get to where they need to go. Do you mind if I ask you a couple of questions? And through a series of leading questions that people with good therapeutic backgrounds can do, teased out that Daisy had fled an abusive relationship, lacked family resources, did not have a place to sleep that night, and that $1,800 was a loan for a security deposit on an apartment so that she can have permanent housing. So the FA that was helping her navigate this situation said, okay, we don't need $1,800 yet.

• 1:00:40Speaker 07

  We need a roof over your head. We need food in your belly. Let's start there. And found her, again, through local hardship resources, found her a women's shelter. She was able to, she had a bed for several nights, was able to get her meals from a local organization. Okay, now she's fed, she's housed, she's dry, she's clean, she's slept. Now let's concentrate on your new apartment and how do we get you money for that? And it would be very easy to connect her with, you know, if here's a loan from a company like a Cashable and say, okay, now we're done. But instead, this financial assistant helped her navigate her own employer ecosystem and found that her own employer had a hardship program that she could apply for. And she applied for it, got approved and was given, not loaned, given $1,800.

• 1:01:24Speaker 07

  And she was able to use that free money that she does not have to pay back to get a permanent roof over her head. That's an example.

• 1:01:31Speaker 00

  That's fabulous. And it's wild how one emergency spreads into all of these other issues and by going right to the root of the problem versus another 1,800 bucks. And by going into all the existing resources, you're able to come up with a much better solution.

• 1:01:47Speaker 07

  Exactly.

• 1:01:47Speaker 00

  This is where generic financial advice, I think, often fails so much. Like, how was the person able to identify all these different places where she could get money when other programs aren't able to do that?

• 1:02:02Speaker 07

  This is a great question. I think part of it is when you're a working American and you work for a large employer that offers financial wellness solutions, those financial wellness solutions are usually administered by companies who typically are curated for people who are financially healthy. So fidelity, for as an example, might be in charge of your 401k and makes financial advisors available to you for phone calls X many sessions or conversations per year so that you can plan, which is great for somebody who has money. But just like you and I did not learn how to balance a checkbook in school and everything that you said about the individuals, because they don't know what a healthy income to debt ratio looks like, starts every conversation with, I need the thing, how do I get the thing?

• 1:02:47Speaker 07

  Without a total awareness of the financial hole that it digs a person, because most of us don't grow up learning what healthy income to debt ratio looks like. So those same CFPs, those same financial advisors, they're used to talking to affluent people who can plan 30 years in the future and therefore lack the advice of someone who has nothing. After their bills are paid, there's $5 left in their checking account and they've got 10,000 or more in debt. They can't help them because you don't want to plan 30 years in the future. You can't contribute to your 401k. You're borrowing from your 401k. So those people wind up getting left behind.

• 1:03:22Speaker 00

  I think this is an important point too for our stackers because I know, meeting people around the country, Kristy, that we have such a giving community and people that want to help more people get financially literate. And yet, we're used to talking to people about being in the 401k, or putting money in a savings account. And there's all these underlying things that the person you're talking to probably will never tell you. They're way too embarrassed to tell you. They're way too emotional about it. They're putting on the best front that they can. And I can say that with a lot of confidence because that was me. I would look you in the eye and everything would say, okay, and nothing was okay. Like, absolutely, nothing was okay.

• 1:03:59Speaker 07

  Imagine if you were in a place where a conversation with a financial advisor would start with things like, let's talk about how many subscriptions you pay a monthly fee for. Are you using all of them? Or, okay, how much is your monthly grocery bill? And what is that made up of? And are there ways to save there? Or, what is your air conditioning usage? And are you ready? Are you prepared for the spike in your electric bill that's going to come, come May and last through likely October, depending on where you live? And those conversations are the basics of managing a monthly budget. But they get passed over because it's centered instead on, let's plan for your retirement 30 years in the future and all the money that you're going to put away towards it. So it's just two different constructs.

• 1:04:40Speaker 00

  100%.

• 1:04:41Speaker 07

  And therefore, two different paths.

• 1:04:43Speaker 00

  Well, actually, hopefully, one leads to the next, right? I mean, hopefully, people get to the point where they're talking about the long-term stuff, where they're through those hurdles, which is why I think we just need a lot more education about the difference between a financial coach, which a lot of people need. When I was a financial planner, people would come to me and I would end up doing financial coaching with them, more because I liked them. Couldn't really make any money. It's not the way financial planning operations are set up. But it was because of the fact that I wanted to see this person succeed. But now there's a whole industry is, well, you guys are a part of, of financial coaching to help people get on their feet and get things moving. I want to talk about that, though, getting things moving. Because, well, I love the Daisy story, and about

• 1:05:24Speaker 00

  how she avoids the $1,800 loan. She now gets $1,800, which gives her the breathing room. But now she's got to do something with it. What's the next step then for Daisy? How were you guys able to help Daisy beyond that then to maybe, I don't know if it's set up a budget, get rid of income insecurity, whatever the next steps might be?

• 1:05:44Speaker 07

  That's a great question. Thank you so much for asking. So after we're done helping Daisy solve that first problem, it would be very easy to say, okay, you've got a permanent apartment, you're safe, you're housed, you've got food. Okay, nice to meet you, right? It would be very easy to just kind of let it go. But I think the value of our financial assistance and a big differentiator is that we don't go away. Daisy's FA called her back to the table and because she had built so much credibility by helping getting her temporary and then permanent housing, she was able to ask a tough question. And that was, hey Daisy, because you link your credit report with us through your app, I can see that you have $40,000 in credit card debt across 10 accounts. Can you tell me, does that feel overwhelming for you? Would you be interested in figuring out a way together and let's looking at some

• 1:06:29Speaker 07

  options that we can get that paid down and paid off and make it stop and just end it? And, you know, this is now a person that Daisy trusts and the FA had to work for that trust. But now that the trust was built, Daisy says, of course, I would love that help. That's fantastic.

• 1:06:43Speaker 00

  I was gonna say, if I were Daisy, I would, my interest, are you kidding me? Like, who wouldn't be?

• 1:06:48Speaker 07

  Exactly. I'm over the moon. Yes, absolutely. It's like when someone walks into a therapist's office for the first time. You walked in, you know, you need help, you know, you're there for a reason. You're not going to spill all the skeletons out of your closet at once. This has to be one conversation at a time, one data point at a time, little bits of credibility building at a time. So once we get to that point of trust, it's almost like anything is possible.

• 1:07:10Speaker 00

  I want to focus on something else, too, because there's been a lot of discussion lately around AI. We've talked about AI a lot on the show. But the fact that this was a real person helping her, from my standpoint, from the outside looking in, Kristi, has huge advantages. Just this caring that an individual person can do. Like, you know, AI talks to me all the time, like, hey, Joe, you're great. That was a great prompt. My God, are you smart? We should do more smart stuff that you do. It's great, but I also know that it's a little disingenuous. But when a human being says, you know what, you can make this happen. I feel like there's power in this human connection as well, Kristi.

• 1:07:44Speaker 07

  Yeah, there absolutely is. It's funny, when I talk to FAs, we shadow them all the time. And every HR exec I speak to asks the same question, is that a human being? And I'm like, yes, that's a human being. That is not a bot. And every FA says, when they've built relationships with their client, they say like, we're at the point where it's a friendship. It's almost like an angel on the shoulder, helping you make good decisions, and then helping you take that first step, and then the next step, and then the next step, and keeping you motivated with positive reinforcement, and an emphasis on the belief that there is a solve to your problem, that there's a resolution at the end of this road. So let's walk down it together.

• 1:08:18Speaker 00

  You know, often when it comes to money problems, we think, oh, Christie's making great points, man, maybe I should get help. But I'm gonna work on this another month, another two months, another three months by myself, and see if I can solve it myself. I used to go to this church, and the woman leading the church had this great sermon, one of my favorite sermons of all time, Christie, which was, "I'm gonna give it to God as soon as I finish [bleep] it up myself."

• 1:08:46Speaker 00

  But I'm gonna make sure it's completely buried. When you and I were chatting about this before, you talked about the human toll, like seriously, the physical toll. And we even mentioned it at the top of the show. Let's talk a little bit about the physical problems that this creates when you're dealing with all this financial stress.

• 1:09:04Speaker 07

  Yeah. I mean, so listen, I'm sure that all of your stackers can relate to the being in the position of living with financial insecurity. We call it living with financial illness. And when you are living with financial illness, there is a massive tie to mental health and physical health being strung together. And financial health almost sits at the bottom of that. If you are not financially healthy, you are suffering from anxiety and depression, definitely. And if you are financially unhealthy, your cortisol levels are perpetually raised. And any stacker who listens to this and remembers and knows what it feels like to be obsessively thinking about money all day, every day, every waking moment, feels anxious all the

• 1:09:45Speaker 07

  time. And the Mayo Clinic just released a study in February of this year of 280,000 adults. And they found that financial strain is as bad for the heart as smoking. So now we have learned through the Mayo Clinic that perpetually raised cortisol levels causes premature cardiac aging. So now we know, okay, financial stress actually can make you sick. It is making you sick. And it's just another incentive to try to find a way to solve it.

• 1:10:12Speaker 00

  It's wild, the feedback loop here. Money, stress damages your health, health problems create missed work, co-pays, prescriptions, additional bills. It's tough to get up in front of that cycle.

• 1:10:23Speaker 07

  Right. Exactly. So, think about it from a company standpoint. So now you are a large employer, you're in the Fortune 1000, and you have thousands of people that work for your company. If we assume that 70% of them are financially unhealthy in some way, we are creating workforce outcomes through this problem that impact absenteeism, presenteeism, meaning that you're physically at work, but you're not concentrating at work, creating safety incident issues, accidents happen due to lack of focus, LOAs, sick days, and yes, as you mentioned, healthcare claim and costs. The list goes on and on.

• 1:10:59Speaker 00

  We did a show a few weeks ago about 401k plans and the Roth component. And we asked the question about if they don't have the Roth component, what do you do? And OG, my co-host said, "Talk to your HR team. Talk to your HR team. Your HR team wants to hear from you. They want to hear, 'Hey, we really want the Roth component.'" What's interesting about that, Kristy, and I'm going to tie it into what you guys do here in a second, is that the outpouring that I got after that show of HR professionals going, "Yes, tell us what you want. Tell us what you will use. Please, please, please, please," because we get zero feedback from the people that work for us. And if you gave us more feedback,

• 1:11:38Speaker 00

  we could create programs to help you with this. Brightside interacts with your employer, and it could be something that your employer works with already, or if they don't, it's the kind of thing that you could go talk to your employer about. So, let's talk specifically about Brightside. How does it work? How do you guys work? And how do you interface with an existing HR program that already has a slate of benefits?

• 1:12:05Speaker 07

  Sure. Thank you for that. So Daisy's story was a great example of what happens in the day to day if your employer is partnered with Brightside. We are a financial care benefit, not a financial wellness benefit, because our first priority are people who are not financially well. And we sell the benefit to employers who then provide it as a free benefit to employees. And what it is, is an app that is paired with unlimited access to a financial assistant that you build a relationship with, a human. And instead of them being a CFP or having their Series 7, in many cases, they have a social worker background, or a teacher background, or a nurse background, patient care associates, think people who have professional experience,

• 1:12:47Speaker 07

  motivating someone to do something hard that they don't want to do that is good for them. And through that relationship, we solve for people one financial problem at a time, until they are building their own emergency savings, paying off their 401k loan and not taking out another one, and starting to live a financially healthy life to the points where they don't need us anymore. And they get unlimited access for that. So Daisy was able to get a temporary home, get a permanent home, work through $40,000 in credit card debt, and she didn't pay for any of those services, because her employer provided that benefit. And the great thing is, she can do it with 100% trust, because we don't monetize a

• 1:13:28Speaker 07

  single choice that any employee makes. If they do wind up with a loan, because we have a saying around here, it's better to be in debt with a roof over your head than the other way around. So, fine. So if an employee does wind up with a loan, or a referral to one of our partners, we don't make any money on any choice. We don't monetize employee choices. We are only incented to make sure that the client is helped and the right thing is done by them.

• 1:13:50Speaker 00

  And if somebody wants to bring this to their HR pro, the website is?

• 1:13:55Speaker 07

  Website is gobrightside.com.

• 1:13:57Speaker 00

  Awesome. And if you're walking the dog stackers, or you're on a commute, we've got your back. It'll be in the show notes page at stackybenjamins.com. Krista Tellerico, I have to laugh, because I, now, it's funny, when we met, there was no association with Tellerico. Now I say Tellerico.

• 1:14:15Speaker 07

  And you've just got James on the brain.

• 1:14:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know, it's triggering one way or another for everybody, no matter what. You're people like yay or nay. I don't know. I don't know what it is, but.

• 1:14:28Speaker 07

  I mean, we are progressive for what that's worth.

• 1:14:32Speaker 00

  Employee wellness. Well, let's get it. I think we can get bipartisan around financial health. I think we all get excited about that.

• 1:14:39Speaker 07

  Absolutely. I don't think there's a single person who does not feel like it's important to be able to comfortably house and feed their families and provide generational health for their family's future. That's one thing that absolutely everyone can agree on.

• 1:14:54Speaker 02

  Hi, I'm Mitchell Walker, and when I'm not teaching people how to find hidden money, I'm out stacking Benjamins.

• 1:15:01Speaker 00

  Big thanks to Jill and Christie, and thanks to you, OG, for just sitting quietly in the corner.

• 1:15:08Speaker 04

  Happy to keep doing that for the rest of the day.

• 1:15:10Speaker 00

  It was great. Well, you have your opportunity right now because I'm just going to go to Doug. Doug, what should we have learned on today's show?

• 1:15:17Speaker 03

  So what's stacked up on our to do list for today? First, take some advice from Jill Schlesinger. Delegating tasks? Great. Deciding to not learn how your money works? Money is too much of a fuel for the rest of your life not to know. Second, benefits packages? Take some advice from Christie Talarico. If you're feeling overwhelmed, maybe there's more going on than you not understanding your 401k. But the big lesson?

• 1:15:45Speaker 03

  Just because they call it the people's car doesn't mean it belongs to all the people. Apparently that's why Joe's mom got a little bent when I borrowed her keys. Who knew? Hey, Ma, mega superstar announcers are people too. Take it easy on me.

• 1:16:02Speaker 03

  Thanks to Jill Schlesinger for joining us today. You'll find her new podcast, Money Moves, wherever you're listening to us now. We'll also include links in our show notes at stackingbenjamins.com. Thanks also to Christie Talarico for joining us today. Run benefits for your company. Check out Brightside. Head to gobrightside.com for details. And you know what? I'll also have my people put that on the show notes as well. You're welcome. Coming up on tomorrow's show during this special five day extravaganza, you get statements that say Fidelity Investments, but do you know about the history of that company? We're joined by Wall Street Journal's special reporter, Justin Baer,

• 1:16:45Speaker 03

  who shares the secretive family behind the big brand and how Fidelity made their mark.

• 1:16:52Speaker 03

  This show is the property of SB Podcast LLC, copyright 2026, and is created by Joe Solc Hi. You'll find out about our awesome team at stackingbenjamins.com, along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello. And oh yeah, before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor Doug, and we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.

• 1:17:38Speaker 00

  Maybe it's time we talked. Kiplinger calls it the trillion dollar talk, a conversation about inheritance, estate planning, wills, and the questions families should be asking before those decisions become urgent. Because knowing what your family wants and having a plan for it can be one of the most important financial conversations you will ever have. Ready to start yours? Visit kiplinger.com to learn more about the trillion dollar talk and what this historic wealth transfer could mean for your family.