Los Awichus

In the middle of Lake Titicaca, Perú, there’s a beautiful island called Amantaní: a place known for its lush hills and friendly locals. But you should never stay out late… unless you want to meet the spirits of the island.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:08Glynn Washington?

  Patty Cake, Patty Cake, Baker's Man. When he saw what he saw, the baker ran. Then he did what he did because he had to, fam.

• 0:19Glynn Washington?

  Then he wept and he wept when they found the man.

• 0:26Glynn Washington?

  You've crossed over to Spooked. Stay tuned.

• 0:38Speaker 01

  Why have so many crop circles appeared around Britain? How did thousands of people demonstrate powers of telepathy? Can the dead suck the life from the living? Join me, Tim Harford, for a trip into the paranormal throughout Halloween month on Cautionary Tales. Listen to Cautionary Tales on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:20Glynn Washington?

  So this is Frog. Bright green, size of your fist. Lives high in the canopy of the Amazon rainforest. Hundred feet high. Can't even see it high, but you can hear it.

• 1:35Glynn Washington?

  And right before the dawn, thousands of them,

• 1:40Glynn Washington?

  croaking, pulsing, throbbing, a chorus echoing through the darkness. The Caxinawa people, an indigenous tribe of the Brazilian Amazon, they've been listening to this song for as long as they have been a people. And they've come to understand something about this creature.

• 1:59Glynn Washington?

  They know if you take a secretion off its skin, this milk-white, waxy stuff, and you put it on a burn, it will heal you.

• 2:10Glynn Washington?

  Not like fix a cut, I mean heal the insides of you. They call this medicine combo. But that's not what was called at the beginning. In the beginning, it was called something else. I'm gonna tell you the story, though it was told to me.

• 2:28Glynn Washington?

  A long time ago, generations ago, Kashinawa were in trouble. Some kind of sickness tore through the village. People were dying, and the medicine man, the Pajé, he's trying everything. Every root, every bark, every leaf he knows. Nothing is working. People keep dying.

• 2:50Glynn Washington?

  So this old shaman makes a decision. He walks into the forest, alone,

• 2:58Glynn Washington?

  deeper than he's ever gone. And there in the dark, he drinks of the sacred vine. And he sits, and he waits.

• 3:12Glynn Washington?

  And that night, she comes.

• 3:17Glynn Washington?

  The grandmother spirit of the forest.

• 3:20Glynn Washington?

  She doesn't speak. Instead, she reaches up, way up into those trees, and she brings down a frog. Bright green, white spots on its belly, and she shows him how to scrape that secretion off its back. How to make little burns on the skin and put the medicine right there directly into the wound.

• 3:44Glynn Washington?

  And the Pajé opens his eyes again. He can still hear the frog singing.

• 3:53Glynn Washington?

  He goes back and does exactly what the grandmother spirit showed him.

• 3:59Glynn Washington?

  And one by one, people get well.

• 4:04Glynn Washington?

  From that day forward, they called him Pajé Campo. And when he finally passes away, this old man, full of years, surrounded by the grandchildren of people who should have passed away from that disease, they say his spirit did not leave.

• 4:23Glynn Washington?

  He went to the frogs, merged. The medicine was named in his honor, Cambo. And recently in Rome, Italy, university laboratory, a sample of that frog secretion, it ends up in the desk of a scientist named Victoria Aspalmier. The man who discovered serotonin, Nobel Prize nominee, one of the most important pharmacologists of the 20th century. And this man appears at Cambo under a microscope and calls it, and I quote, "A fantastic chemical cocktail because inside that frog are peptides no one has ever seen before.

• 5:07Glynn Washington?

  A painkiller forty times more powerful than morphine, a natural antibiotic, material that fights inflammation, that regulates blood pressure." And now there are over seventy pharmaceutical patents based on that frog. Billion dollar companies trying to figure out how to synthesize what the Kashinawa already have.

• 5:31Glynn Washington?

  But how did they know? Don't have microscopes, centrifuges. How do they know you can't swallow it? How do they know to burn those holes first? How do they know the dosage? How do they know which frog out of thousands of species in that rainforest? How did they know? Trial and error is impossible statistically. So the scientists, they sit with the elders, the ethnobotanists, the anthropologists, researchers with notebooks and recorders and reasonable questions, they ask very politely, "How did your people figure this out?" And the elders answer.

• 6:13Glynn Washington?

  They say, "The grandmother spirit told us." The pencil stopped scribbling. The scientists, they smile politely, then they ask the question again, different words, looking for the real answer. The rational answer. The elders blink back at them, a long moment, until one of them finally says, "What part of the grandmother spirit do you not understand?"

• 6:51Glynn Washington?

  Spookstars. Now.

• 7:30Glynn Washington?

  Now, for this spook story, we're gonna travel to Peru to meet La Doisca. Now, La Doisca, she wants to help the communities of her homeland by building libraries and schools. She's on a boat with some friends on her way to a very special place.

• 7:50Glynn Washington?

  Snoot.

• 8:16Speaker 02

  La inmensidad del lago es fascinante. El color turquesa azul hace un sol radiante.

• 8:28Speaker 03

  The vastness of the lake is fascinating. The water is turquoise. There's a cool breeze. The sun is shining. There's a sense of peacefulness that I can't describe.

• 8:44Speaker 02

  Estamos llegando a Isla Montaní.

• 8:46Speaker 03

  We are arriving at Isla Montaní, the largest island in Lake Titicaca. It rises from the water like a mountain, and it's home to 10 different small communities.

• 9:04Speaker 03

  We get to the dock, and my first thought is, "This feels like home." There are kids playing around, wearing their little fleecy chulito hats. They're giving us shy smiles.

• 9:23Speaker 03

  The other locals are wearing colorful traditional costumes, with women wearing yigyas, beautiful shawls that cover their shoulders.

• 9:34Speaker 03

  I'm greeted by Alexa and Abel.

• 9:39Speaker 03

  They are the kids of the Mama Nikalsin, the family I'm staying with for the next few months.

• 9:45Speaker 03

  They help us carry our backpacks, our groceries, and we start walking.

• 9:51Speaker 03

  As we turn to the right,

• 9:56Speaker 03

  I see a flock of sheep following us.

• 10:00Speaker 03

  They look a bit frightened by our presence.

• 10:05Speaker 03

  That's when...

• 10:12Speaker 03

  I have this feeling of being watched.

• 10:16Speaker 03

  There's a tingling down my spine.

• 10:19Speaker 03

  I look around, but the people aren't paying any attention to us. I don't know where this feeling is coming from, but it's as if someone is watching and wondering...

• 10:34Speaker 03

  "What are you doing here? Who are you?"

• 10:39Speaker 03

  I try to explain this feeling away, like, "Maybe I'm just nervous about the project." "I want to build a library on the island and provide literacy workshops, but in order to do that, I need to gain the trust of the community." "I don't know if they actually want this, so I wonder..."

• 11:00Speaker 03

  "Am I really welcome here?"

• 11:05Speaker 04

  Mientras vas subiendo por las callecitas empedradas, la vista es espectacular.

• 11:11Speaker 03

  As we climb up a cobblestone path, the views are spectacular. Little red houses dot the landscape. There are green fields and farms everywhere. Lake Titicaca glistens to my right.

• 11:27Speaker 03

  The closer we get to the Mamá Nicalcín's home, the more I can feel the altitude changing.

• 11:34Speaker 04

  Estamos casi 4,000 metros de altura sobre el nivel del mar.

• 11:37Speaker 03

  We're now 4,000 meters above the sea level, and it's getting hard to breathe.

• 11:44Speaker 03

  I know that coca leaves can help with altitude sickness. So I reach into my bag and pull out a small stash, and I start to chew.

• 11:54Speaker 03

  In this community, coca leaves aren't just a remedy. They are sacred. Farmers chew on them for energy, and people also use them to greet one another on the island. The tradition is to take three coca leaves, each one representing a different realm.

• 12:13Speaker 04

  Lhánampacha.

• 12:14Speaker 03

  The world of the gods.

• 12:16Speaker 04

  Caipacha.

• 12:17Speaker 03

  The world of the living.

• 12:19Speaker 04

  Uhupacha.

• 12:20Speaker 03

  The world of the dead. Together, these three leaves are called ekintu. Using both hands, you bring the coca leaves to your mouth, ask for a blessing, and then you give the leaves to the other person. They will receive the skin too, with their skirt or their hat.

• 12:41Speaker 04

  Llegamos a la casa y encuentro a Mamá Nselma a la entrada.

• 12:46Speaker 03

  We finally arrive and meet Mamá Nselma at the door. She's wearing a chuco, a black cloak that covers her head. She's so happy to see us and welcomes us inside.

• 13:33Speaker 03

  El sol se acerca y nos reunimos para cenar.

• 13:38Speaker 03

  Mientras comemos ensalada de quinoa, le cuento a Abel acerca de este sentimiento de ser observado cuando llegué por primera vez a la isla. Él me mira y dice:

• 13:47Speaker 04

  ¿Te gustaría conocer la noche en la montaña?

• 13:50Speaker 03

  ¿Te gustaría conocer la montaña por la noche?

• 13:54Speaker 03

  Todos nos miramos y decimos:

• 13:56Speaker 04

  ¿La noche? Pero, ¿qué pasa en la noche en la isla?

• 13:59Speaker 03

  ¿Por qué? ¿Qué pasa durante la noche? Y él dice: "Bueno, ese sentimiento de ser observado... ... proviene de espíritus que no puedes ver. Estos espíritus... ... se despiertan por la noche."

• 14:16Speaker 03

  Yo digo: "¿Qué quieres decir, espíritus?" Y Abel empieza a contar una historia.

• 14:23Speaker 04

  Los abuelos son los ancestros de los ancestros de los ancestros.

• 14:28Speaker 03

  Los abuelos son los ancestros de nuestros ancestros de nuestros ancestros.

• 14:33Speaker 04

  Son muy, pero muy, muy antiguos.

• 14:35Speaker 03

  Son muy, muy, muy antiguos. Puedes decir que fueron los primeros en inhabitar la montaña.

• 14:43Speaker 03

  Solían vivir en esta isla, igual que nosotros. Tenían sus propias leyes, su propia religión. Pero en algún momento...

• 14:52Speaker 04

  Se obedecieron a su dios.

• 14:54Speaker 03

  Se desobedecieron a su dios. En este punto, Abel es muy serio.

• 15:03Speaker 03

  Así que, los abuelos fueron castigados.

• 15:06Speaker 04

  El dios Inti los calcino.

• 15:09Speaker 03

  El dios Inti quemó a todos ellos. Y sus huesos eran los únicos restos que quedaban.

• 15:17Speaker 04

  Y esos huesos quedan en una cueva.

• 15:20Speaker 03

  Esos huesos están ahora enterrados en una cueva. Profunda en la isla, donde nadie es permitido ir.

• 15:28Speaker 03

  The Awichus guard that land, because not everyone is welcome there.

• 15:34Speaker 03

  There are people who are afraid of the Awichus, because they say that if you ever bump into them,

• 15:39Speaker 04

  "You can get sick and die."

• 15:51Speaker 03

  Now, Mamá Anselma is like any other mom. She goes, "So you better not go out at night. The day is for the living, and the night is for the spirits. The Awichus don't bother us during the day. Why would we bother them at night?"

• 16:09Speaker 04

  "When the sun goes down, it's time to go back home."

• 16:18Speaker 03

  I had heard these kinds of stories and legends in other native communities. But I must admit, this one is a bit scary. I mean, the whole family is dead serious when talking about the Awichus. But I tell myself, "Hold on. This is just their belief system."

• 16:37Speaker 04

  "This is just a story."

• 16:46Speaker 03

  For the first few days, I'm in a bliss. I wake up to the birds singing and the whisper of the lake. But the work has been exhausting. Some days, I have to walk for over an hour to reach Okosuyo, the community where we're building the library. The children in Okosuyo laugh when they see me. The adults approach me with curiosity. Some look at me with suspicion.

• 17:19Speaker 04

  "This one particular day,

• 17:25Speaker 03

  I really needed some alone time." The week had been intense, and the project was stalling. We didn't have enough money to fully fund the library. We had launched a fundraiser, but it wasn't successful. We were starting to doubt ourselves, like, "Is this really gonna happen?"

• 17:45Speaker 03

  So I grabbed my coca leaves, a book that I'm reading, some crackers, and I head out.

• 17:53Speaker 03

  It's around 11:00 in the morning. I'm walking through the island, taking my time, and I decide to go to El Agua de la Juventud. It's a natural water spring. The locals say that the water has healing powers. They drink it for longevity.

• 18:12Speaker 04

  Para llegar a la Fuente de la Juventud, decidí embarcarme en...

• 18:16Speaker 03

  To get to the spring, I walk through some of the sacred areas of the island, along this cobblestone path that goes up and down this lush hill.

• 18:26Speaker 03

  There are so many red, yellow, and pink cantu flowers all around me.

• 18:33Speaker 03

  Then finally, I go down this one last hill and get to the spot. It's a little natural spring that is located near a cliff's edge. And this spring is surrounded by a meter-high stone wall.

• 18:49Speaker 03

  The first thing I do is I introduce myself to the water, the way that the family taught me.

• 18:55Speaker 04

  Yo soy Ladoyka. Gracias por permitirme tomar tus aguas.

• 19:00Speaker 03

  Hi, I'm Ladoyka. Thank you for letting me drink from your waters. And I take out some coca leaves.

• 19:08Speaker 03

  Then I grab my bottle and I fill it with water. And I fill up another bottle from Mamá Selma.

• 19:14Speaker 04

  Me quito los zapatos.

• 19:16Speaker 03

  Then I take off my shoes.

• 19:18Speaker 04

  Me siento ahí.

• 19:19Speaker 03

  Sit right by the spring, feeling the dirt under my feet. I just close my eyes and enjoy the sun and silence.

• 19:32Speaker 03

  Time slips away, and I notice it's getting dark.

• 19:37Speaker 03

  I lost track of time. I need to hurry. Mamá is gonna get worried. But... What could go wrong?

• 19:48Speaker 03

  I pack my stuff and I start making my way up the hill, back towards home.

• 19:54Speaker 04

  Y escucho murmullos.

• 19:55Speaker 03

  And that's when I hear murmuring. Someone nearby is mumbling.

• 20:06Speaker 03

  I turn and look down the hill.

• 20:11Speaker 04

  Veo una señora muy pequeña.

• 20:13Speaker 03

  There's a short woman behind that stone wall surrounding the spring.

• 20:19Speaker 03

  She's about four feet tall and probably in her 70s. She's wearing traditional clothes and she's covered in this grayish dirt. She's carrying a bucket and pot. Maybe she's been working on the chakra all day.

• 20:38Speaker 04

  No puedo ver su rostro porque está encorvada.

• 20:42Speaker 03

  I can't see her face because she's hunched over. I'm wondering, where did she come from? There's no path behind this stone wall.

• 20:53Speaker 03

  Then she starts trying to climb over the wall. Her arms shake as she tries to push herself up.

• 21:02Speaker 04

  Tengo que ayudarla.

• 21:03Speaker 03

  I need to help her.

• 21:06Speaker 03

  So I head back down the hill and I walk to where she is.

• 21:11Speaker 03

  I extend my hand and say,

• 21:13Speaker 04

  Mamita.

• 21:15Speaker 04

  Mamita, apoyate aquí.

• 21:16Speaker 03

  Mamita, grab my hand. But she ignores me. It's as if I'm not there.

• 21:24Speaker 03

  She's still hunched over and mumbling. So I remove some stones so that it's easier for her to climb over. I know I shouldn't be doing this, but she needs help.

• 21:36Speaker 03

  I say,

• 21:37Speaker 04

  Mamita, aquí es el espacio donde tú puedas pasar.

• 21:41Speaker 03

  Mamita, I've opened a path through the wall. And I offer her my hand once again. But she doesn't grab it. It's like she doesn't want to be touched.

• 21:54Speaker 04

  But then, she slowly starts climbing over the walls opening. And now... La mamita está frente a mí. She's standing in front of me.

• 22:07Speaker 04

  Es muy pequeñita. She's really, really tiny.

• 22:13Speaker 04

  I offer her some coca leaves. I tell her... Mamita, coge tu falda. Mamita, pick up your skirt.

• 22:22Speaker 04

  She turns and looks right at me.

• 22:27Speaker 04

  Her eyes are so black, dark and deep, with a bit of hazel. La mirada era muy fija, muy penetrante. Her gaze is so heavy, so piercing. It's like she's looking right through me.

• 22:46Speaker 04

  She starts whispering, and with her right hand, she picks up a Kirby leaf.

• 22:53Speaker 04

  And then a round one that is on the same stem.

• 22:57Speaker 04

  She pulls the two of them apart, and she starts drawing with them in the air.

• 23:04Speaker 04

  And I think, "Oh, she's reading my coca leaves."

• 23:08Speaker 04

  Sus manos ya no le temblaban, ¿ah? Her hands are not shaking anymore. She looks stern, confident.

• 23:16Speaker 04

  She's pointing with the bigger leaf, making circles in the air. Me empieza a hablar mirándome a los ojos. And then she looks me right in the eye and starts talking.

• 23:30Speaker 04

  She's speaking in Quechua, so I can't understand a thing.

• 23:35Speaker 04

  So I tell her... Mamita, gracias por querer leerme los hojas de coca, pero yo... Mamita, thank you for reading my coca leaves, but... Yo no hablo Quechua. No, no, no entiendo, o sea... I don't speak Quechua.

• 23:49Speaker 04

  And she just keeps staring at me.

• 23:53Speaker 03

  But then, she goes through the well and takes off her yijia. She drops her bucket and pot and takes off her sandals.

• 24:05Speaker 03

  Suddenly...

• 24:07Speaker 04

  Empieza a correr un viento muy, muy, muy fuerte.

• 24:11Speaker 03

  A really, really strong wind picks up.

• 24:14Speaker 04

  Fuerte, fuerte, fuerte, como un remolino de viento.

• 24:17Speaker 03

  Really, really, really strong, like a whirlwind. Some old trees in front of me start to buckle. I don't know what is happening.

• 24:28Speaker 04

  Cierro los ojos.

• 24:30Speaker 03

  I close my eyes.

• 24:31Speaker 04

  Un segundo nomás.

• 24:32Speaker 03

  For a split second.

• 24:34Speaker 04

  Abro.

• 24:35Speaker 03

  Open them. The wind stops.

• 24:39Speaker 04

  Y la mamita ya no está.

• 24:41Speaker 03

  And the woman is gone.

• 25:16Speaker 03

  My heart is racing. It just started going...

• 25:22Speaker 03

  The bucket and the pot are gone. The yijia is gone. This is impossible.

• 25:28Speaker 04

  Nadie puede desaparecer.

• 25:29Speaker 03

  No one can just disappear like this. Her shoes were off. How could she put them back on so quickly?

• 25:38Speaker 03

  I jump over the stone wall and I look for her. But there is no other trail.

• 25:44Speaker 03

  Where could she have gone? Who was she? I'm starting to freak out. Every hair on my body is standing up. It's now really dark outside and I'm just thinking... I'm gonna get scolded by Mamanselma. But I need to tell the family what happened.

• 26:06Speaker 03

  I get home. I find Mamá Anselma waiting on the doorstep. Papá Juan is also there. Mamá Anselma starts asking:

• 26:14Speaker 04

  ¿Dónde me había metido? ¿Dónde me había desaparecido? Que llegaba a cenar...

• 26:19Speaker 03

  Where have you been? Why were you so late? It's dinner time already. I start to tell them what happened. As I'm talking, Mamá Anselma and Papá Juan are looking at each other. They whisper in Quechua. Mamá Anselma looks worried, but Papá Juan, he's so chill.

• 26:40Speaker 04

  Y hasta diría que esbozó una ligera sonrisa.

• 26:43Speaker 03

  He even starts smiling. He looks me in the eye and says:

• 26:49Speaker 04

  Esa experiencia que acabas de tener...

• 26:51Speaker 03

  The experience you just had.

• 26:53Speaker 04

  Son los Awichus.

• 26:55Speaker 03

  Those are the Awichus.

• 26:58Speaker 03

  He tells me:

• 26:59Speaker 04

  Es una bendición que me han dado la bienvenida a los ancestros.

• 27:03Speaker 03

  The ancestors have given you their welcome and their blessings. You should feel accepted and joyful.

• 27:11Speaker 03

  I'm like...

• 27:12Speaker 04

  ¿Qué cosa? ¿He visto a los Awichus?

• 27:14Speaker 03

  Is this true? Did I just see the Awichus? Mamá Anselma says, "Yes, you did. But now, you might get sick or get into an accident." But Papá Juan says, "They have seen your truest intentions on the island."

• 27:31Speaker 04

  Todo te va a ir bien, hija.

• 27:33Speaker 03

  Everything will work out for you.

• 27:38Speaker 03

  This is an answer I wasn't expecting. My rational mind is saying, "Wait. This is impossible."

• 27:47Speaker 03

  After this encounter, the project all of a sudden was back on track. The funding for the library came through, and everyone seemed more receptive to our project. It just felt like the doors opened.

• 28:02Speaker 03

  About a week later, the whole community comes together to help build a library. As I see everyone working together, I feel so grateful. What Papá Juan told me made sense. I'm like...

• 28:17Speaker 04

  ¿Sí existen los Awichus?

• 28:19Speaker 03

  Awichus exist.

• 28:23Speaker 03

  For some, seeing an A-13 is bad luck. But for others, it can be a welcome, a blessing. Even today, there's still work to do on Isla Amantani. Every time I visit, I still get this feeling of being watched.

• 28:40Speaker 04

  Pero esta vez ya los conozco.

• 28:43Speaker 03

  But I know who they are.

• 28:45Speaker 04

  Y ellos también a mí.

• 28:47Speaker 03

  And they know me too.

• 29:04Glynn Washington?

  Thank you to the Doisca for sharing your story with Spooked. The Doisca's voice in English was Lorena Berge. It was scored by Sandra Lawson-Indu. It was scouted by Juan Diego Brachan. And produced by Eric Yanez.

• 29:28Glynn Washington?

  Now, if you have a story from beyond the veil, please, please, please, please, let me know. Spooked at snapjudgment.org because there's nothing better than a Spook story from a Spooked listener.

• 29:47Glynn Washington?

  Spook Studios lives inside Schrödinger's box, which is both there and not there at all. Deep under KQD Studios in San Francisco, don't seek to find it, lest it seek to find you. Tell the robots that no Snap Studios content may be used for training, testing, or developing machine learning or AI systems without prior written permission on Team Spooked. The union representative producers, artists, editors, and engineers are members of the National Association of Broadcast Employees and Technicians Communications Workers of America, AFL-CIO Local 15-1, and...

• 30:29Glynn Washington?

  Spooked is brought to you by the team that very much likes its plant medicine, especially Mark Ristich. There's Davey Kim, Zoe Fergno, Ann Ford, Eric Yanez, Tael Decot, Marissa Dodge, Miles Lassie, Su Yichu, Evan Stern, Eve Jeffcoat, Yeshel Lopez, Jack Darrow, Doug Stewart. The Spook theme song is by Pat Lassiter Miller. My name's in Washington. They say the universe began with a bang, a flash, everything, everywhere, all at once.

• 31:11Glynn Washington?

  But long before telescopes, before equations, before anyone knew what a galaxy was, people sat quietly, asking the same question. How did this begin? Rigveda, composer around 1500 BCE, opens its creation hymn with a confession. It says first, "There was neither existence nor non-existence. No space, no time, no night, no day, nothing, just potential." The Vedic sages called it the unmanifest. And when it finally stirred, they said it emerged from a single source, the golden womb,

• 31:54Glynn Washington?

  the cosmic egg, not an object in space, but space itself, before space learned how to stretch. Modern cosmology tells us the universe began as a singularity. No time, no distance, and expansion, cooling, matter, stars. This is a different language with the same sequence, instead of the Big Bang. They called it the unfolding. And here's the thing, they said it wasn't a one-time event. The Vedas say the universe breathes, it expands, then it collapses before it begins again, a cycle.

• 32:35Glynn Washington?

  And today, physicists argue about cycles of their own, cosmic rebounds, endings turning into beginnings. The ancients did not argue. The Rigveda ends its creation song by saying simply, "Who knows?"

• 32:54Glynn Washington?

  Perhaps even the gods do not know, 3,000 years ago, they admitted the mystery.

• 33:02Glynn Washington?

  And now with our machines and our models, we stand in the same place of unknowing with the same question. Where did this come from?

• 33:12Glynn Washington?

  The same answer, "We do not know." Saying it started with the Big Bang is no answer. What started the Big Bang?

• 33:26Glynn Washington?

  Where do we come from?

• 33:29Glynn Washington?

  Instead, maybe,

• 33:32Glynn Washington?

  we should ask ourselves,

• 33:35Glynn Washington?

  "Where are we going?"

• 33:39Glynn Washington?

  And after that,

• 33:42Glynn Washington?

  one sage piece of advice from the ancients does illuminate the darkness. "Never," they said. "Ever, never, never ever, not ever not never ever, ever,

• 34:00Glynn Washington?

  turn out

• 34:03Glynn Washington?

  the light."