Pod Insights Speaking of Psychology How to support children after traumatic events, with Robin Gurwitch, PhD About this episode From hurricanes to wildfires to gun violence, trauma and disaster touch the lives of millions of children each year. Robin Gurwitch, PhD, discusses how disasters affect children’s mental health, how to support children and teens in the aftermath of disasters, and how parents can talk to their children about traumatic events in the news.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 Purchase new carpet from The Home Depot and get it installed for free right now. Shop the stylish choices and simple pricing of carpet from Home Decorator's Collection, Traffic Master, or life-proof with pet-proof technology, and see for yourself why nobody beats our prices. Enjoy new carpet with free installation right now at The Home Depot. Offer valid October 15 through November 1, 2026. Exclusions apply. For licenses, see homedepot.com/license numbers.
0:29 Speaker 01 LinkedIn is pretty amazing at helping you grow your small business. We cannot stop your new clients from emailing you at 3 a.m. We can help you sell, market, and hire in one place. We cannot help you be in three places at once. And while we can't help you organize your calendar, LinkedIn can help you land more clients so you have a calendar to organize. Grow your small business on LinkedIn. Learn more at LinkedIn.com/smallbusiness.
0:59 Kim Mills? In recent years, there's been a worldwide increase in disasters, mass violence, and terrorism around the world. These events often come with loss of life, leaving many children experiencing both trauma and grief, which take a toll on their development. Disasters leave many children struggling with mental health conditions such as depression, anxiety, and PTSD, as they also struggle with their grief. Furthermore, when the grief is due to an event that is widely covered by media, children and their families often have difficulty navigating their personal recovery and healing separate from that of the community. So what do we know about children's experiences of trauma and grief?
1:43 Kim Mills? How do such events influence their development, both in the near term and beyond? How can parents, caregivers, and therapists help children who have lived through floods, wildfires, hurricanes, war, and other traumatic events? What can be done for parents and other caregivers who themselves are suffering as they try to help their kids recover and thrive?
2:05 Kim Mills? Welcome to Speaking of Psychology, the flagship podcast of the American Psychological Association that examines the links between psychological science and everyday life. I'm Kim Mills, coming to you from Denver at APA 2025, the National Convention of the American Psychological Association. My guest today is Dr. Robyn Gurwitch, an emeritus professor in the Duke University Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences and the Center for Child and Family Health. She is a recognized expert in understanding and supporting children in the aftermath of trauma and disasters. Since the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, Dr. Gurwitch has focused much of her clinical
2:46 Kim Mills? work, training, and research on improving the outcomes and increasing resilience in children who have experienced trauma or lived through crises, including terrorism, natural disasters, and stressors related to military deployment. She has served on state and national committees and task forces, including the National Commission on Children and Disasters Subcommittee on Human Services Recovery. Dr. Gurwitch is one of the first people we at APA reach out to after disasters to help us advise families and children who are trying to cope. Dr. Gurwitch has co-authored book chapters, scientific journal articles, and public education materials on the topics of trauma, resilience, psychological first aid, terrorism, disasters, and preparedness.
3:30 Kim Mills? Dr. Gurwitch, thank you for joining me today at APA 2025.
3:33 Speaker 03 It is my pleasure to be with you today, Kim.
3:36 Kim Mills? So you've worked with and studied children affected by everything from terrorism to natural disasters. What are some common emotional responses you see in kids after traumatic events?
3:47 Speaker 03 So when we think about these disasters, whether it's terrorism or whether it is natural disasters, we need to recognize that children will have a variety of responses. And they start as young as infancy and go all the way through the child age span, all the way up to that 18-year-old, 19-year-old.
4:13 Speaker 03 We see challenges in sleep problems. We see problems related to interactions with the people in their lives, whether it is irritability with their parents and having more meltdowns and being more defiant to being more clingy and withdrawing. We also see children, as they get older, have more conflict with their peers or feeling that they're being bullied when they never were before or actually beginning to bully when they didn't do that before. We may see problems in terms of school performance. And I think sometimes, parents, if they don't know that, and teachers too,
4:57 Speaker 03 if I don't know that learning is going to be impacted, then I don't understand why I can't give 50 problems when 25 could do when I'm really struggling after a disaster. So sometimes, we see a dip in school grades. And that should be expected, and it should pop back if we give them the emotional support that they need. There's a small number, Kim, I think this is just fascinating, that actually their grades get better. And who calls school and says, "Hey, please, I need mental health services. My kids' grades have improved tremendously." But if you think about disasters, they're out of our control.
5:38 Speaker 03 And if I study all my free time, I can control that. And it's that control that ends up being, leading to better school grades, but there's a cost. Usually, as my school grades go up, I'm not getting together with my friends. I'm not wanting to go to dance or soccer. I'm not wanting to do other activities. And so, there's a cost, so we should be equally worried.
6:06 Kim Mills? Right, it's not a good sign.
6:08 Speaker 03 It's not a good sign. And I think we see behavior changes, as I said. We see children after these events, both terrorism, as well as natural disasters, school shootings, other kinds of tragic events.
6:23 Speaker 03 And we see problems with attention, problems with concentration. We see more active behaviors. We see irritability and mood swings. And we've been conditioned by the pharmaceutical industry. If your child is showing all these things, talk to your doctor. Talk to him about free samples of Adderall, Sotera, Concerta, Ritalin. The problem is that those, those kinds of behaviors are exactly what we see with children that have experienced these events. And then you have children that truly have ADHD that also have experienced disasters.
7:04 Speaker 03 So we as psychologists need to step up and say, hey, hey, let's wait a second. Let's make sure that we're looking at true ADHD and not reactions to an event that just took place. So psychologists really have a critical role to play to help educate not only families and do better jobs with assessment, but to educate our, our physician partners and to educate education systems so they're not referring an entire classroom of third graders for ADHD evals. So we, we do see some of that.
7:44 Speaker 03 And the best treatment for trauma for kids is psychotherapy.
7:51 Kim Mills? Let's talk a little bit more about those treatments because you've been instrumental in developing and adapting parent-child interaction therapy and other treatments. So how do those models work? Why are they so effective?
8:04 Speaker 03 So, yes, there have, there are, I think about when I entered this field more decades ago than I want to think about, how little we knew about interventions and where we are in 2025. And psychologists have really led the way on scientifically backed interventions. And we know now that whether you are an infant or a teen or anywhere in between, there are effective treatments. We have the science to back that up. My particular area, when I'm looking outside of the universal, like, psychological first aid, is parent-child interaction therapy or PCIT.
8:50 Speaker 03 It is magic. It truly is the most magical treatment on the face of the planet. And I can say that because I've got the mic. PCIT has more than 400 scientific journal articles, book chapters, randomized trials on its effectiveness. And we know from many of those studies that it is extremely effective for children who have experienced trauma. Now, recently, I've been working with a colleague, Dr. Christina Warner Metzger, another wonderful psychologist, to create a trauma module specific
9:32 Speaker 03 to PCIT, to give parents skills and ideas and language that they can use when they see their child engaging, for example, in building buildings up and knocking them down in that post-traumatic play. Or they start crying because they're scared because it is storming outside and they've just been through floods. So we've worked on that. We're in the midst of a multi, multiple sites, collecting data before we sort of push it out bigger. But one of the things that was interesting, the very first cohort that we looked at trying this was in New South Wales, Australia. And it was a naturalistic study.
10:16 Speaker 03 Started, everybody got into the study because the children had had trauma. Partway through the study, had to put a pin in things because most of the families had to evacuate because of fires that hit New South Wales. They came back, started up again, had to put a pin in it, floods.
10:41 Speaker 03 Came back, started again, COVID. Oh, Lord. So then you start saying, what is, you can't really talk about what's doing what. And what we've learned is this is not unusual. We have done several other places, not as bad as New South Wales. But we're collecting information and sure enough, they come in with one trauma. And halfway through, we look again and the majority of kids have had another trauma. And PCAT is very short term. It averages around 20 to 25 sessions.
11:19 Speaker 03 So we have to make sure that as psychologists, we don't just start at where we were at the beginning. We keep looking all the way across. And we've looked at PCAT for trauma. We've looked at adapting it for our military during the wars. There were so many families with young children that were deployed. It was creating stress and strain on relationships. So we looked at how to improve those relationships. And that's one of the cornerstones of PCAT. Another program that we are trying to gather more and more science behind it. We've got some, I think it's called Child Adult Relationship Enhancement or CARE. It is similar to MI.
12:04 Speaker 03 You don't send somebody to motivational interviewing therapy. But the tools of MI help make anything you do better. And CARE is a set of skills based on strong, strong scientifically backed parenting programs. But it's not therapy. It's a set of skills. And how do we give adults, any adult, from school bus drivers to daycare teachers, to soccer coaches, to parents, to caseworkers for foster children, skills that they can interact with children to make the children feel safe, reduce distress, reduce the need for more intensive treatment? And we're seeing really nice gains.
12:49 Speaker 03 From a program that is four hours long. And so, we're hoping recently through grant funding as part of the National Child Traumatic Stress Network, we've been able to adopt the CARE program specifically for disasters. So, complementing psychological first aid, complementing skills for psychological recovery. And if they do need that intensive level of treatment, complementing those treatments. And we've now provided Respond With CARE after the shooting with the Super Bowl celebration
13:26 Speaker 03 in Kansas City, to floods in Asheville, North Carolina, to a shooting in East Lansing, Michigan, so many different places, the Highland Park Parade. So, we're finding that the uptake has been good because really what parents want to know, what carers want to know, grandparents, teachers, other adults, what do I do? What do I do? Give me something I can do to reduce the worries and concerns with my children. Because we have to recognize that the carers are equally distressed. And if I'm distressed, I have a harder time helping my child on their journey after these
14:10 Speaker 03 events. So, how do we provide both? And if we add what you talked about at the very beginning, thank you so much, because sometimes when we talk disasters, people don't include grief. I mean, to us, we're like, okay, well, of course grief. But that is not what you will typically find. It's not even always collected. And grief is a different thing. I can be resilient, I can bounce back with the right emotional supports, with the right strategies for coping, I can bounce back and move forward. You don't bounce back from grief, nor should you. Grief changes us. We learn to heal.
14:55 Speaker 03 So, how do we help children heal from grief? How do we help them incorporate that into their new history, their new narrative?
15:04 Kim Mills? And are there special interventions then for dealing with grief? What do those look like?
15:10 Speaker 03 There are wonderful interventions that are grief-specific, and those would be at the top of the pyramid. But there are also all these universal and second-tier approaches that we can incorporate with a grief lens. How do we superimpose that? How do we talk to families about, "These are the kind of reactions you are likely to have with grief, and your children are going to have some of the same." And they overlap quite a bit with basic trauma reactions. So I don't know if the sleep problems are because of grief or because of the disaster. I just know there's sleep problems, and what do we do about it? Right?
15:52 Speaker 03 And so, how do we help children understand grief? And I think as we, when we talk about grief, to recognize that as children get older, sometimes it creates distancing from peers because, "I lost my mother, and I don't know how to engage with friends who have their mothers." Or, "My friends don't talk to me because they don't know what to say to me because I've lost my mother." So just when I need my peers, they're not there. And I go to find support from my family, but they're grieving too. And so, we talk to families about everything, from what to expect from yourself, and to
16:34 Speaker 03 give yourself a little bit of compassion, and also how to support your children, all the way to, "Do I take my child to a funeral?" If it's a community-wide event, it is in the public eye. And that's a whole different kettle of fish, so to speak. Because no two families are going to grieve the same way, yet the spotlight's on them. And yet, sometimes the media would really like just one answer. "How should all these families manage grief?" And they're not the same.
17:07 Kim Mills? Right, right. We're going to take a short break, and when we return, I'll talk to Dr. Gruwich about how parents can talk to their children about disasters and tragic events in the news.
17:20 Speaker 04 New and exclusive holiday decor just launched online at The Home Depot. Check out the viral Grand Duchess collection with smart holiday lights you can control from your phone. Easily customize the twinkle across trees, wreaths, and garlands to match your holiday vibe. Create stunning light effects, then switch it up with the tap of your fingers. Even the man in red will be impressed. Shop the holiday decor you want, online only, at homedepot.com.
17:48 Speaker 01 LinkedIn is pretty amazing at helping you grow your small business. We cannot make your email response time faster. We can help you sell, market, and hire in one place. We cannot help you find space for your three desk drinks. Why do you have three? And while we can't help you find the perfect volume for your presentation video, LinkedIn can help you find the perfect audience for your business. Grow your small business on LinkedIn. Learn more at LinkedIn.com/smallbusiness.
18:19 Kim Mills? So, speaking of media, how do you advise parents and other caregivers to deal with their kids after a tragic event that had a lot of media coverage? What should they be doing?
18:33 Speaker 03 Sure. I think one of the things that is something we all recognize now is media is 24/7. It never stops. So, we strongly encourage that families talk to their children, even if it's not in their community. Right? There was a horrible flood in Texas, and many children died and people lost their lives. Tell me what you've heard about it.
19:08 Kim Mills? It was a camp. I mean, kids would know all about that. I'm a camper, and I go and we camp on the river, and now I'm scared.
19:14 Speaker 03 Right. It may be a school shooting. It didn't happen in my community, but my children all go to school. And Jonathan Comer, wonderful.
19:25 Speaker 03 Contributor to APA did a great study looking at is it better to talk to your children or not after the Boston Marathon bombing? And John and his colleagues found when you talk to children, they're less likely to developmental health distress than when you don't. So sometimes what we need to do, even if it's outside of our community, is to say this horrible thing happened, tell me what you know about it. That allows you to first listen and hear where are they coming from?
20:04 Speaker 03 And you will hear misinformation because social media also is great grist for rumor mills. But you will have misperceptions, misinformation, misattributions that you can hear and begin to gently correct. You can check in, I feel like a psychologist, how did that make you feel? But we should validate those feelings, not try to talk them out of it. The child says, I'm really, really angry. And we say, oh, you shouldn't feel angry. Then what makes us think they're ever going to talk to us about anything again if you can't validate me?
20:42 Kim Mills? Right.
20:43 Speaker 03 Those are their feelings, they're real. So listen, I think is really important. Make sure that they know you are available to talk to them. But have that conversation, don't assume that because they're so young, they won't know. That first grader is on a school bus with children that are much older and they're going to be talking about it.
21:05 Kim Mills? It's a kind of inoculation. I mean, what you're doing here is building resilience, right? By getting kids ready, prepared, really talking through disasters even when they haven't touched them personally because children are afraid.
21:19 Speaker 03 They are. They may be angry, or they may be worried, or they may be anxious, or they may be multiple. You know, a big plug to Inside Out movies. It teaches us that you can have more than one emotion at the same time. There's a throwaway line in Inside Out 2 where joy and sadness are talking.
21:41 Speaker 03 And joy tells sadness, we will always be together. Because anytime that joy is there, sadness is too. And when there's sadness, joy can be there also. And so recognizing there can be multiple emotions that kids will have. But you are exactly right, we're setting the stage. If you can talk to your children about the really hard, ugly stuff, you've just increased the likelihood that they are going to come talk to you when they're feeling peer pressure, when they're disappointed because they didn't make the baseball team, or when they're scared about a book report, or when they're getting pressured to do things that they feel would be uncomfortable.
22:24 Speaker 03 If I can set it up at the very beginning, gosh, my carer will talk about anything with me. I've just increased the likelihood they're going to come to me when those kinds of events occur.
22:39 Kim Mills? So let me switch gears for a minute and ask, how do factors like race, socioeconomic, or disability intersect with trauma, both exposure and recovery?
22:51 Speaker 03 Great question, because I think we do need to go there. Because if we don't talk about it, again, we're not going to be able to understand or address it. We know, and COVID showed us in neon lights, that marginalized populations, people of color, people with lower socioeconomic status, were less likely to receive services, have access to services, and they were more likely to have worse outcome from the pandemic. And we see that oftentimes happening. So we really do need to recognize that.
23:34 Speaker 03 But we also have to recognize that there are cultural issues too that we need to consider. I mean, I've been to Florida, North Carolina, and Tennessee following Helene.
23:48 Speaker 03 They are very different cultures. If I'm going to LA to address things there, they're going to be very different than North Carolina. So we have to take not only ethnic considerations, but culture, where we are in this country. And we need to make sure that we are talking to the people from those communities. We need to listen and learn from them so that when we go in to provide support, to provide trainings, to provide consultation and services, we're meeting them where they are.
24:28 Speaker 03 But yeah, we do see that individuals, that racial differences, SES differences, have different outcomes. It's often because they don't have the same access to services. We also see that there is still, I mean, I would love to say, gosh, we've been doing psychology for a long time, there's no stigma around mental health. That would be a lie. There's still stigma. And so we also know that certain groups and minority populations are one, that are less likely to avail themselves to mental health services. So how do we better support? One of my colleagues talks about go where they are.
25:10 Speaker 03 If you're working with Black communities, then go to the barber shops. Don't expect them to come to you. So we need to think about that. How do we look to make sure we're addressing those concerns? And then, I'm sorry, we have to layer on. There are reasons that we may be more hesitant. If I'm Black and I think about the long history from the Tuskegee Studies to other things,
25:43 Speaker 03 Gee, I don't know why I should just trust you.
25:45 Kim Mills? Why would I go ask for help from you?
25:47 Speaker 03 So, we have to recognize historical trauma plays a role too. So, there are multiple factors at play that we need to consider when we are responding. And I have found, in a really positive way, that because of things like psychological first aid, which is just emotional support and strategies for coping, I can sort of help open the door to hear some things that may be helpful down the road.
26:29 Speaker 03 If you still have challenges, here are services that can help you.
26:33 Kim Mills? Yeah. So, when I started this podcast, I talked about the increase in disasters we're living through today. And you began this work in 1995, as you said, with Oklahoma City. So, I just want to close by asking you, are we getting any better at this? I mean, you've learned a lot in all of the years of work that you've done. You've come up with new concepts and therapies. But are they taking hold in the community at large? Are we getting better at helping people through these incidents?
27:03 Speaker 03 I think we are. And yes, I actually believe in climate change. And I think that we are seeing many, many more disasters because of climate change and places that never experienced hurricanes or getting hurricanes or snow or getting snow. I mean, we're topsy-turvy. And we have made such huge strides in disaster mental health.
27:33 Speaker 03 And I think that is one point I would really want to make is disaster mental health is not the same as traditional mental health services. So if you are in the mental health field, please seek out training in disaster mental health, what that is like and how you can support survivors after disasters. And disasters is any event that overwhelms an ability for us to cope. So they can be natural terrorism, they can be man-made, they can be whatever. But we've come a long way. There are many, many more treatments across the age span. There are many, many more providers that truly do understand this.
28:15 Speaker 03 We now have Division 56 of APA, the Trauma Psychology Division, and within that, there's special work being done in disasters. So we have that in APA. That wasn't there a couple of decades ago. So we're making huge, huge strides. And so I think we still have a ways to go. I don't want us to stop. We're looking at, you mentioned racial disparities. We need to look at religious disparities. Anti-Semitism right now is off the charts. How is that impacting that community's ability to feel safe in the world that
29:00 Speaker 03 they inhabit? So we have to create a bigger tent and invite more people in and really encourage the current generation of psychologists as well as the coming generations of psychologists to enter into the disaster mental health world. It's different, but it is incredibly rewarding. And we, as disaster mental health professionals, have learned too, if we're not taking care of ourselves when we're doing this work, we're not going to be much use to anybody. So we've learned a lot about the importance of self-care in this journey over the decades.
29:43 Kim Mills? Well, Dr. Gurwati, I want to thank you, and thank you for the very important work that you do.
29:48 Speaker 03 Thank you for having me.
29:52 Kim Mills? You can find previous episodes of Speaking of Psychology on our website at speakingofpsychology.org, or on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like what you've heard, please follow us and leave a review. If you have comments or ideas for future podcasts, you can email us at [email protected] . Speaking of Psychology is produced by Lee Weinerman. Thank you for listening. For the American Psychological Association, I'm Kim Mills.
30:58 Speaker 04 New and exclusive holiday decor just launched online at The Home Depot. Check out the viral Grand Duchess Collection with smart holiday lights you can control from your phone. Easily customize the twinkle across trees, wreaths, and garlands to match your holiday vibe. Create stunning light effects, then switch it up with the tap of your fingers. Even the man in red will be impressed. Shop the holiday decor you want, online only, at homedepot.com.
Previous Financial scams: Why some older adults are at risk, with Duke Han, PhD Next Teens, AI and the science of risky decisions, with Valerie Reyna, PhD Page updated November 1, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated