Hadrian Raises $260M Series C Led by Founders Fund & Lux Capital; A Turning Point for U.S. Manufacturing

Chris Power, CEO of Hadrian, returns to Sourcery to break down the company’s newly announced $260M Series C.. bringing Hadrian’s total investment to ~$500M since founding the company in 2020. This round was closed in 3 weeks, with equity led by Delian Asparouhov of Founders Fund and Lux Capital, alongside a factory expansion loan facility from Morgan Stanley. The funding supports Hadrian’s rapid U. S. expansion, including Factory 3 in Mesa, Arizona, and the build-out of new divisions like Hadrian Maritime. Chris explains how Hadrian is evolving from precision part production to full product manufacturing, covering everything from components to assemblies to mission-critical platforms. He also shares how the company is integrating AI across its stack, building proprietary labeled data in a space where legacy manufacturing systems have long been offline. The conversation touches on geopolitics, the Davidson window, industrial readiness, and why Hadrian is betting big on automation and American workforce reinvention. Highlights: $260M Series C to expand into full product manufacturing and naval defense Factory 3 opening in Arizona with 270,000 sqft Hadrian generating one of the only scalable labeled data sets for AI in manufacturing 10x YoY Growth & National Expansion Plans Connect with us! 1. Chris Power: https://x.com/2112Power 2. Molly O’Shea: https://x.com/MollySOShea 3. Sourcery: https://x.com/sourceryvc Brought to you by: Brex—The modern finance platform, combining the world’s smartest corporate card with integrated expense management, banking, bill pay, and travel. As a Sourcery Listener you get: 75,000 points after spending $3,000 on Brex card(s), white-glove onboarding, $5,000 in AWS credits, $2,500 in OpenAI credits, & access to $180k+ in SaaS discounts. On top of $500 toward Brex travel, $300 in cashback, plus exclusive perks (like billboards..) visit → https://brex.com/sourcery Turing—Turing delivers top-tier talent, data, and tools to help AI labs improve model performance—and enables enterprises to turn those models into powerful, production-ready systems. Visit: turing.com/sourcery Kalshi—The largest prediction market and the only legal platform in the US where people can trade directly on the outcomes of future events: https://kalshi.com/sourcery Fourthwall—The #1 way to sell merch online — Fourthwall is the easiest way to launch a fully branded merch store—used by big brands like MKBHD, Acquired, & even the Smithsonian. 100+ products. No upfront cost. Visit Fourthwall to start today: https://fourthwall.com/ Subscribe to Sourcery for the latest updates!https://www.sourcery.vc/ Timestamps: (00:00) - Chris Power Returns (01:00) - $260M Series C: Founders Fund, Lux, Morgan Stanley (03:35) - Factory 3 in Arizona & expansion (05:10) - Hadrian’s product vision: parts, assemblies, full systems (06:55) - Customers: hardware startups, primes, DoD (08:30) - Why America needs 20 Hadrians (10:50) - Financing factories like solar & data centers (13:45) - ReIndustrialize 2025: momentum in policy & defense (15:45) - The Davidson Window: China, Taiwan, and U. S. readiness (22:57) - AI in manufacturing: Hadrian’s data moat & automation strategy (25:55) - Future Predictions: Trump, China, Recession (30:30) - Bloopers #Hadrian #AdvancedManufacturing #ReindustrializeAmerica #DefenseTech #SupplyChainResilience #BuildInAmerica #ChrisPower

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Molly O'Shea?

  America.

• 0:00Speaker 01

  America.

• 0:01Molly O'Shea?

  America. America. America?

• 0:03Speaker 01

  America.

• 0:04Molly O'Shea?

  America.

• 0:19Molly O'Shea?

  Chris Power.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  Molly O'Shea.

• 0:22Molly O'Shea?

  I was just gonna say America again.

• 0:26Molly O'Shea?

  You are founder of America. Sorry, Hadrian. You're founder of Hadrian. Welcome to Sorcery.

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Thank you. It's glad to be here.

• 0:33Molly O'Shea?

  I think it's been about like 12, 18 months since you were last on.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  Something like that. I've got a much better setup than last time.

• 0:40Molly O'Shea?

  What do you mean?

• 0:41Speaker 01

  Well, last time I think I was in the office with a bad Zoom background.

• 0:43Molly O'Shea?

  Oh, that's true.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  Incredibly professional setup and reindustrialized.

• 0:46Molly O'Shea?

  Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna do a, what's it called? Like a rolling tour? What's it? You just traveling tour?

• 0:52Speaker 01

  Something like that.

• 0:53Molly O'Shea?

  I don't know. We'll get an RV.

• 0:54Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 0:54Molly O'Shea?

  Huge congratulations. You just closed a major next round. Could you share more about how much you raised and from who?

• 1:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, happy to share. We just raised another $260 million equity and factory financing. So Founder's Fund and Lux led the round. So 110 million in new equity dollars as well as new investors like Altimeter. You've interviewed Eric before. He's amazing.

• 1:17Molly O'Shea?

  Big fan.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  I am a big fan of Eric and Brad. I think what they're doing in Invest America is incredible. And obviously all of our existing investors like Andreessen Horowitz and Construct Capital. But very grateful Founder's Fund and Lux actually let our seed round. So it's great that they're coming back to the table. And we also raised the rest of that $260 million is factory financing from Morgan Stanley, which we're very appreciative of.

• 1:39Molly O'Shea?

  So how much have you raised in total now?

• 1:41Speaker 01

  The whole company, I think we're probably up to the 500 range.

• 1:48Speaker 01

  Which is good, but we're actually incredibly capital efficient. So we have most of the prior round from the Series B still left in the bank. So we're really just using this to put the gas down, which is great.

• 1:58Molly O'Shea?

  What was this process like versus previous processes?

• 2:02Speaker 01

  It was actually incredible. So, you know, our, our seed in Series A went very fast. Series B was a, the hottest round we've ever done. Which I don't think is uncommon for deep tech companies because to the market, and I'm sure your audience will appreciate this, is any deep tech company is usually like a deep tech B, but a seed round revenue and it's always in between. This one, we're really lucky where When we launched like the factory to all of our customers in January, we basically 10x revenue in four quarters last year. The automation was really kicking into gear. You know, no one's ever scaled a manufacturing company this fast. So actually, we were done and closed within the round from starting to pitch to term sheets being signed or a deal done within, I think,

• 2:47Speaker 01

  three weeks.

• 2:48Molly O'Shea?

  Wow.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  Um, which was really impressive, but honestly, it's just because we've been working really hard for a year. Um, and then obviously, we've had a ton of insights from the existing investor base and new investors to, you know, take a bite of the apple, especially as we're scaling and growing so far. So we're super lucky. Um, and especially on the factory financing side, you know, we want to use our equity dollars to build more automation, hire more people, hire more salespeople, build better products for customers. We never want to dilute our employees or shareholders with factory financing. And that's a huge part of the story here is, you know, our, our finance team did an incredibly good job, but I really think it's just the business performance and the hard work of having a big bank like Morgan Stanley come in and lead, uh, you know, this indication and, and financing round for the factory expansion capital.

• 3:35Molly O'Shea?

  So what does this capital mean for Hadrian?

• 3:39Speaker 01

  It means a couple of things. Um, so, you know, our factory in LA, which is about a hundred thousand square foot, uh, we basically filled it in a year, um, from all that customer growth. So we're launching factory three in Arizona, which will be up and running in Christmas. Uh, we're in July, we signed the lease a couple of weeks ago, so it'll take us six months from start to finish to have it up and running, which I think is really fast. I was actually just looking at photos of all the trucks breaking all the concrete in the factory.

• 4:01Molly O'Shea?

  Fun.

• 4:02Speaker 01

  Very fun. Um, and we're really excited about expanding to Arizona and then we hope to be able to, you know, launch three or four new sites next year as well. So obviously, scaling so fast, need more factories, um, as well as just continuing to invest in deeper automation and workforce enablement, as well as more and more products, which, which we can talk about, because we really are now in a position where. For machining, which was our core manufacturing category, we need to R and D out and launch all the machining products of different alloys so that we can be everything to every customer, as well as improve on the customer experience, you know, be faster, be cheaper. But we're also now going to expand into as many of the other manufacturing categories that make up the 100 to 200 billion dollar domestic supply chain market in the US and

• 4:46Speaker 01

  really become the manufacturing platform for America's greatest companies, you know, not just in this one category, which is going to continue to be the largest for sure, but expanding out into all those other ones. So, you know, just like a, you know, a Rippling or other companies where you start with one product, but the goal is actually do everything for all these customers. So we're really excited to bring more products of manufacturing to market to our huge customer base.

• 5:09Molly O'Shea?

  So what is the full stack, Adrian, set of products?

• 5:13Speaker 01

  So we think about it in three vertical layers and then horizontal manufacturing capabilities. So the, the vertical layers are parts, assemblies and whole products. So think of a part as something that we machine down to incredibly tight tolerances that we hand over to customers and they assemble it. Assemblies are, you know, sub-assemblies and maybe like a wing, something like that. And then products we think of as full, full categories, like a whole munitions round, a whole ship, um, or large parts of it. And you imagine a factory, our current ones look like data centers, the ones that we're going to launch for whole products look more like, you know, Tesla Model 3 Gigafactory. That's how to visualize it. And then underneath that, there are six to seven major manufacturing capabilities that if you have all of them, one, it's the entire market and then you can kind of build

• 5:58Speaker 01

  whatever product you want. Um, so machining obviously is always probably going to be the largest one. Additive, we're already up and running on casting, which is, you know, pouring metal, forging, which is fucking hammering metal. I like that one. Um, as well as sub-processes like welding, um, which is huge for the naval applications, um, and scarcity. And what we, what we look for is where is the customer experience really bad? Um, or where is there such a lack of skilled labor that, you know, you could pay us a billion dollars to go hire a bunch of skilled people and America just doesn't have it more? And that's where we think automation has the highest leverage, not to replace people, but to really give the new workforce 10 times productivity. Because we just don't have the people in America anymore to build these,

• 6:42Speaker 01

  you know, critical hardware for our customers as well as the DOD.

• 6:45Molly O'Shea?

  So you mentioned a couple use cases and a couple customers within that. Could you explain further, who are your core set of customers? And what are the typical things that you're building?

• 6:55Speaker 01

  So we don't talk about customers publicly because we sign very strict NDAs with both the government and the primes themselves. I would say we're serving currently the vast majority of hardware startups through our product for Atlas, which our friend helps run. And that's really designed when you're an engineer, you're trying to start your startup super fast and you don't have a huge supply chain team and you don't know what you're doing. So it's kind of full stack supply chain. That's scaling super fast for us. For our core manufacturing business, it's high precision machining. And we work with America's largest scaled primes. So anyone that you would see building fighter jets, drones, munitions,

• 7:36Speaker 01

  weapons platforms, missiles, commercial aircraft. We are vastly becoming their fastest growing and most important supplier, as well as a huge business in space launch. So high precision components that then get assembled onto rockets and satellites.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  And for our government business, what we're primarily focused on is naval applications, where there's a huge scarcity of a skilled workforce and we just can't get submarines or ships in the water fast enough, as well as in the munitions categories where there's not much innovation to be done, but you just need to be able to produce a lot very fast. And we just don't have that capability in the US anymore.

• 8:10Molly O'Shea?

  Talking about the capability in the US, we are at reindustrialize.

• 8:15Molly O'Shea?

  Big deal.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  Big deal.

• 8:16Molly O'Shea?

  Big deal, America. I want to talk to you about how you see hadrian fitting into this picture. Like, what role does hadrian have in reindustrialization?

• 8:29Speaker 01

  So we obviously want to be aggressively in every market. But the problem for the country is so large that we need about 20 hadrians. I think.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  Capex-heavy or complicated businesses have a unique property. I don't think there's going to be more SpaceX's. I don't think there's going to be more Andrels, you know, of like new defense primes or Neo primes. And I don't think there's going to be more than a handful of large industrials companies. It's very hard to get over the scale of capex, the operating scale, enough equity dollars to fund ludicrous amounts of software engineering and the capability to go do that. But we think, the founders and I have re-industrialized, think about that as not just, you know, defense, advanced manufacturing like us. We think about it as pharmaceuticals, consumer electronics, drones, even biotech. So I was having dinner with a friend last week.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  And the story with American manufacturing is that the thesis from the seventies was let's give the Chinese the kind of low skilled tasks. And we'll outsource more and more of that, but don't worry, we'll always do the design and the advanced stuff. And what has actually happened in reality is when you disconnect production from design, you get very bad at design. And in biotech, this is another area where it used to be that, you know, the scientists over here would, you know, create a new genome or paper or whatever and go test it in China because their labs are very cheap. It turns out now that they're actually faster than us at cloning our papers and making new biotech products as well as innovating their own products actually at a faster rate than we are. So what we want to see is this industrial movement that does two things.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  One is brings back all that capability that we've started to offshore, onshore through advanced automation, both in core manufacturing, defense products, biotech, pharmaceuticals. I mean, I don't know if everyone knows this, but we don't really make antibiotics onshore in the US anymore. So if we went to war or China wanted to like, they were unhappy about the tariffs, they could just shut off the entire antibiotic supply.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  So it's not just core advanced manufacturing for defense or space. It's all these other important categories that we just kind of like assumed we could give away the important infrastructure of the company, country, and then it would be fine. And now we're finding out across all these categories, it's a really dangerous position to be in. So. Our position is, you know, hopefully we will spawn and inspire, you know, many, many other companies that look and feel like a Hadrian, where it's advanced automation with a, with a new American workforce, but in every single one of these categories. It's a very hard thing to do, but everyone needs to be like in this together. And, you know, one of the things I often say is like, it's brutally difficult, but like you too can do it. You just have to kind of go west, young man or woman.

• 11:12Speaker 01

  But we actually need huge investment in all of this. The second thing is, I do think we're paving the way on how to finance factories better than anybody else. It's always been a core part of our skillset is how to financially engineer. Cause if you really think about heavy capex businesses, there are really only two ways to get a venture return. And manufacturers in the US are horrifically low margin, right? So you have to, you have to have a margin profile through automation, building a better product that venture returns can support. And the second thing is, uh, there are only a very few markets like space where like NASA will pay you upfront for missions. So you can kind of flow your business correctly and actually have the returns profiles of like a large public company that venture capitals will fund. So from a mission perspective, you actually have to solve that.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  And I think we're proving to the market that the industrials category is huge IRRs on kind of return basis, if you finance them correctly. And then also paving the way where, you know, um, these big providers did not know how to fund AI data centers five years ago.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  Uh, our CFO is from SolarCity and when that huge solar revolution was happening, it's obviously really capex heavy and no one knew how to underwrite the solar market, um, to, you know, fund all this huge cash going into these businesses. So I think that is one of the more important things we're doing is really connecting the dots on the financing side for massive factory expansion that I, I do think is quickly setting the standard of how to re-industrialize the country.

• 12:37Molly O'Shea?

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• 13:19Molly O'Shea?

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• 13:41Speaker 02

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• 14:22Molly O'Shea?

  Talking macro, what was the biggest difference that you've seen so far between this year's reindustrialize and last year's?

• 14:29Speaker 01

  So last year, we really pulled it together on a whim because we thought it was the right moment to try and light this fire under everyone's belly. And this year, I think what we're seeing is that, especially with the shortage of weapons systems in Ukraine, Israel, and Iran, certainly a shortage in Taiwan, is that production and manufacturing are critically important. And I think the second thing we're seeing is much, much more senior people from the administration, from Ambassador Greer at Trade, Secretary Phelan from the Navy, and all these people that really understand the mission and believe it, and want to work with all sides of policy, regulation, the DOD, and small and large companies to try and make this thing happen. And I also think now, like with a lot of the policies being passed, especially in

• 15:14Speaker 01

  things like, you know, nuclear energy. I mean, we're finally going to have nuclear reactors being tested for the first time in, I think, like several decades. And energy is such a critically important thing. So the waitlist, I think, is up to 6,000 now, couldn't fit everyone in. And now it's like a real-

• 15:30Molly O'Shea?

  Thanks for having us.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  Oh, you're quite welcome. And we're just really, really happy that people are getting bought in on the mission and are starting to understand how important it is and how fragmented the country is because we offshored everyone's good paying jobs and really screwed over the American worker for the better part of four decades.

• 15:45Molly O'Shea?

  You had a lovely keynote in the beginning.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 15:48Molly O'Shea?

  There is something that you brought up that you bring up quite a lot. You talk about this 10-year window.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:54Molly O'Shea?

  Can you explain what the 10-year window is?

• 15:57Speaker 01

  So the specific 10-year window we're in is what's called the Davidson window, which is Admiral Davidson first started talking about this a couple of years ago. And the highest risk of China, when we are the weakest and China is the strongest and has to be the most aggressive to take the Pacific Theater, which will start with Taiwan, but they won't stop with Taiwan, which, and everyone knows Taiwan is basically the Arrakis from the Dune books of, you know, semiconductors Ray I. And this is pretty well mapped and you can see both sides are gearing up for, you know, right now, I think we're in a Cold War where everyone's gearing up for, you know, kind of bear pigs. But certainly, I think the Chinese have said pretty religiously over the last couple of hundred years that

• 16:40Speaker 01

  they're going to repatriate Taiwan. And I think that's a pretty hard red line for us in terms of their aggression. So that window is basically 2027 to 2037. So that is kind of a known quantum now in defense. And then historically, this is not unusual. Every great power gets challenged by a developing power. This has happened every 120 years for the last thing. And we're just in that moment in that 10 to 20-year window with this is going to happen. The second thing that makes it, in my opinion, likely, is the one child policy in China. So for those of you don't know, China passed a rule saying you can only have one kid. Everyone picked boys, which was horrific.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  But we just have to last till about twenty thirty seven, twenty forty two. And then kind of overnight, China's working population will cut in half. And then they can try again in another thousand years. So that will put a lot of pressure, in our opinion, on Xi to actually do something because they have this window. And after that, they won't have the fighting force, their economy will start to collapse. So there's a real pressure going over there, which is why we've got this four to six year massive defense industrial base push going on because we actually really have to be prepared. The goal is to never get into a war, but you know, all great conflicts start when both sides misinterpret how strong the other one is. And I think we are misinterpreting how robust our industrial base is to

• 18:05Speaker 01

  rebuild things like ships and munitions if we need to. And I think the Chinese are overestimating themselves a little bit, but when when both sides decide, you know, both of them are wrong and it's time for a test, it's like two idiots sizing themselves up in a bar fight. Or like I said on stage, Mike Tyson and Buster Douglas, where everyone's getting a little bit too comfortable, but but that is the window that we are in in history. And we're going to find out who's got the best system, I think, in the next decade.

• 18:29Molly O'Shea?

  With trends, whether it's technology or politics or even warfare accelerating so fast, we're seeing cycles increase in speed. Do you think there's that's going to play a role in this? Like, is the next war going to be shorter than the last?

• 18:47Speaker 01

  It's hard to tell. I mean, my argument has been that the Chinese are at war with us and we're just too stupid to understand it because Americans only respond to getting punched in the face. You know, the fentanyl crisis in San Francisco is Chinese aggression. They're just still very angry at us for, well, not us, but the British for destroying them with opium in the eighteen hundreds. We were incredibly vulnerable on cybersecurity. They could shut down L A water pretty quickly and everyone would, you know, be in a really bad position. So I think the cycles that are accelerating are huge gains in A I in terms of how fast you can do automation. Huge gains in information, which are leading people to make decisions quicker. And certainly the D O D is speeding up like extremely rapidly compared to five years ago. I think the challenge that we face is that.

• 19:34Speaker 01

  We build factories fast, but if you think about this on the sort of, I mean, we're talking about like a quantum of shipbuilding of like, I think it's seventeen hundred last year of commercial and military vessels versus five. So the kind of quantum of, you kind of like need to spend six billion dollars now, and you'll have that capability in two to four years to get these things up and running and train the workforce at that, at that level of kind of a thousand to one scale. So I think the information is flowing faster. These big capital equipment moves and building shipyards or building massive munitions plant, we'll do it faster than anybody else, but in terms of this four to five year window, we need to really be spending the dollars in the next like eighteen months.

• 20:13Molly O'Shea?

  Recently, I saw you um, comment or engage with a tweet about Y C's recent request for startups. So they recently put out a request um, based on a simple belief, I will quote, "America needs better physical technology and startups are the best way to build it and scale it." You had a pretty uh, I'd say collaborative response to that, rather than seeing it as competition. You're like, no, we need more of these. So can you explain more about your position on that and how you would help engage this environment?

• 20:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I, I think that you've got to remember that there are kind of four big categories, right? There's these huge industrial companies, you know, like a Raytheon, like a G E, who need to upgrade themselves very rapidly. There are new industrial companies like Hadrian who are starting from a clean sheet. There are thirty thousand small manufacturing businesses in the U S that are super important, even in things like making steel that have been completely unsupported by technology, including A I for decades.

• 21:14Speaker 01

  And then there's obviously the new prime. So my view is like, you know, one, there's plenty of software products out there to go build for all these companies. Secondly, there are many microcategories of manufacturing, you know, just like Open A I and A I won't do everything, they will do the vast majority, but you've, for this level of mission, you kind of need everything. I think it's great. I mean, the number one thing that we did that was important was have software engineers get excited about automating manufacturing again versus getting stuck at Google, you know, optimizing ad clicks or trading cat pictures on the internet. So I think Y C stepping into this, just for the fact of getting like Stanford and Harvard kids and you know, kids from the Midwest back involved in building software for the real world is really culturally important for the country.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  The second thing is, I think it'll generate a bunch of great acquisitions for us. If any of them grow too fast into category that we're going to enter, we have this phrase internally, which is we're either going to scoop them up or we're going to bonk them.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  But that's fine. I think for the country, we need like orders of magnitude more than this. And I also think competition is really good. It's, you know, that's the best thing about America. I need more people. I need more people to keep me awake at night other than President G. And I think it's overall a great thing.

• 22:27Molly O'Shea?

  You have a dartboard in your office, right?

• 22:29Speaker 01

  I do have a dartboard in my office.

• 22:30Molly O'Shea?

  We don't need to tell anybody about that.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  I think everyone's seen it.

• 22:34Molly O'Shea?

  So I think like going further down the technological route and advancements in AI, in AGI, now we're gearing towards superintelligence. A company I recently came across was Turing and they're helping build and deploy next gen AGI within real world industries. So I have to ask you, has AGI hit manufacturing yet?

• 22:57Speaker 01

  Yes and no. We use AI in the vast majority of our technology stack now. Manufacturing is so complicated that our strategy has always been automate 70% of a task. And secondly, people don't understand, a lot of advanced manufacturing is working with really dumb computers that drive machines. They run on code. Or, you know, digital manufacturing where you're, you know, telling a computer something to do. So it's actually really good for software and AI. And our strategy has always been very quickly automate 70% of something and then have humans in the loop that are training models that we can then make our systems smarter and smarter over time. Where we have a huge advantage is we invested a lot of money in the connected systems

• 23:39Speaker 01

  to be able to track all that data across the entire factory, both at the process level and the part level. And what we found was we have to basically train our own models. One, because it's in a regulated environment, so it's ITAR, you can't just use something off the shelf. So it's a huge barrier to entry. And secondly, because manufacturing in the United States has been offline for 30 years, there's no stack overflow, there's no GitHub, there's no codebase to train on. So we're the only company that's actually generating. Labelled data that you can then train models around for advanced manufacturing in the US. The models themselves are quite difficult, but the main actual leverage is the faster we scale, the more labelled data we have, the easier training these models gets. And it's very hard to make synthetic data in this environment.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  So I think we're probably the only company actually doing AI and manufacturing that's scalable. And the core thing is no one else has the data set and you can't make it available online. So we're seeing this happen very fast. I think it will continue to accelerate, especially as the like core models like OpenAI and Claude and stuff get faster and faster and faster and faster. And I do think it'll be a massive accelerant for us spinning up new business units. But in that category, I don't think anyone else is going to be able to touch this because no one else has the labelled data.

• 24:50Molly O'Shea?

  Super Hadrian.

• 24:52Speaker 01

  Super Hadrian, that's it.

• 24:54Molly O'Shea?

  One of sorcery's partners is Brex. They're all about performance, spending smarter, moving faster. How is Hadrian thinking about their next milestones that you want to hit? And what metrics are you using to determine them?

• 25:08Speaker 01

  Obviously, revenue growth rate, operating efficiency, the entire factory is a big metrics puzzle. Obviously, launching our Arizona facility like on time and then launching subsequent facilities as fast as possible and hitting all these like product launch goals, which gets more and more complicated over time. But really, our job is to train better workforce every day, build better automation every day so that the customer experiences get better, we're faster, cheaper. And now, you know, get to this point where, you know, we want to be close to a billion in top line by like 20, like 2027. It's a lot of factories, a lot of financing.

• 25:46Molly O'Shea?

  A year and a half.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it'd probably take more than that, but I like to go aggressive and get 70% of the way there.

• 25:53Molly O'Shea?

  Good goal.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  Good goal.

• 25:54Molly O'Shea?

  Good goal.

• 25:55Speaker 01

  America.

• 25:55Molly O'Shea?

  America. This is a hot topic question and I'm really curious about your response on it. But on Calci, there's currently an 18% chance that Trump brings back manufacturing in the US. What do you think about that?

• 26:10Speaker 01

  What do I think about Calci or what do I think Trump being about manufacturing in the US?

• 26:13Molly O'Shea?

  Manufacturing in the US.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  I think that. I think the tariffs have got to stick around. Um, I think in the DOD categories, it has to. Um, either it's, it's pretty binary. Either you believe we're going to build a, a buck load of factories very quickly. Or, you know, the big beautiful bill was a waste because we're not going to have any defense spend to be doing. So I think it's pretty binary. So I choose to believe the former. I think you're seeing tons of companies build back manufacturing in America. There's been generationally huge investments, but I also think it's going to take a decade of sustained policy to go do it properly. So it has to survive multiple terms of the sustained tariff or subsidy policy to really reinvigorate it. But I, I think the answer is yes. I think the answer is yes. I would take that bet. I think they're selling, you know, dollars for 18 cents.

• 27:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, dollar for 18 cents. Yeah.

• 27:03Molly O'Shea?

  Okay.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  We should actually put all of the equity capital into that bet.

• 27:07Molly O'Shea?

  Do it.

• 27:08Speaker 01

  I would be at five.

• 27:09Molly O'Shea?

  Two hundred and sixty million dollars.

• 27:11Speaker 01

  Just to be clear for all our investors, we are very prudent with our use of capital.

• 27:15Molly O'Shea?

  Well, if you did that, you wouldn't be able to actually achieve it if you want to.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 27:20Molly O'Shea?

  Reindustrialize.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  But yes, I, look, this is only personal advice. I think Cal she's selling dollars for 18 cents on that bet.

• 27:27Molly O'Shea?

  Sounds like a good, good trade. This one's also a hot topic for you and you know, you're a macroeconomist. So when will the next US recession start?

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a great question. Uh, I think in two to three years' time.

• 27:43Molly O'Shea?

  Okay.

• 27:44Speaker 01

  I think that we have so much headroom in the Federal Reserve, right? That I think we're going to see dramatic cuts close to 2021's up levels over the next 12 months. And I do think we're seeing a lot of overheating in public equity valuations and late stage private. Um, but because the interest of Fed rate is still, I think it's like four and a half, five percent or something like that. That's a lot of headroom to bring back down. Um, so that LPs rotate into venture and the growth economy keeps going. I also think that the reinvigoration of deregulation is always huge for growth. Focusing on the American workforce, bringing back a lot of, turns out a lot of cash from tariffs.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  And if you look at, uh, my favorite macro economist, economist, which is Zero Hedge, which is the only real economics these days is, it seems like the rest of the world is actually not passing on any of the tariffs to the American consumer, which is great. Um, so my bet is. You know, I do think if we pull this off and, you know, Federal Reserve does some dot and line graphs and we tick down to like, you know, we won't get to ZERP rates, but we'll get pretty close in my opinion. And even if you see a halving from four and a half percent to 2.25 like, that's a lot of momentum back in the economy. So we'll see, but my guess is it's years away and we've got, you know, two or three good years before anything starts, the wheels start falling off.

• 29:04Molly O'Shea?

  Okay. Cal Shihaz is Q3 2025.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  I disagree.

• 29:09Molly O'Shea?

  A couple of weeks.

• 29:10Speaker 01

  What's the, what's the strike price on that?

• 29:12Molly O'Shea?

  Uh, it's like 15%.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  There you go. That's another, they're selling dollars for 15 cents.

• 29:17Molly O'Shea?

  As we close out, I want to end on an even juicier question. Do you think Trump will make a new free trade agreement with China?

• 29:26Speaker 01

  I'm not sure. I think we're playing a five to 10 year game where everything will trade all the time. Depends what, depends what happens. That's a very hard prediction to make. Free trade agreement? No.

• 29:39Molly O'Shea?

  Free trade agreement.

• 29:40Speaker 01

  And honestly, we can call it a free trade agreement, but China hasn't played by any free trade rules. They continually break all the World Trade Organization rules. There is no free to agree.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  Is it going to continually negotiated for different parts of the economy as we re-industrialize and we continue to negotiate and play that power game 100%? Is there going to be a blanket free trade Nixon World Trade Organization agreement? No, I don't think so. I think we're done.

• 30:02Molly O'Shea?

  Okay. Sounds like you can have the upper hand on this one. Um, right now it's at 29%.

• 30:11Speaker 01

  I think it depends on the definition of free trade agreement, but again, I think they're selling dollars for 29 cents there.

• 30:16Molly O'Shea?

  Okay. Well, Chris, it was wonderful to have you on yet again.

• 30:19Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 30:20Molly O'Shea?

  More funding, more factories and more America.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  And more sorcery views.

• 30:26Molly O'Shea?

  And more sorcery.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  Like we say at Hadrian, graph go up.

• 30:29Molly O'Shea?

  It only goes up.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  It only goes up.

• 30:33Molly O'Shea?

  We're here in Detroit, the epicenter of America. I had some crazy news when I landed.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  What's the news?

• 30:43Molly O'Shea?

  We're right next to Canada.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  Seriously?

• 30:45Molly O'Shea?

  Did you know that?

• 30:46Speaker 01

  The 51st state?

• 30:46Molly O'Shea?

  Yes.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 30:47Molly O'Shea?

  No, I think it's 52nd.

• 30:49Speaker 01

  Oh, behind the moon?

• 30:50Molly O'Shea?

  Behind the moon.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  I think that's right.

• 30:51Molly O'Shea?

  Yeah.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:52Molly O'Shea?

  Did you know this?

• 30:53Speaker 01

  I did. I think that's what the protesters were screaming about because they were grumpy about the communists joining the American empire.

• 30:58Molly O'Shea?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's what they were banging on the drum. Yeah, please don't take us over and give us a better quality of life and freedom. Very silly to me.

• 31:06Molly O'Shea?

  That was what they were protesting?

• 31:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, the heart of American manufacturing is on the border to Canada. Who would have thought?

• 31:11Molly O'Shea?

  Well, now it's America.

• 31:14Speaker 01

  America.

• 31:15Molly O'Shea?

  America, America.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  America, America.

• 31:17Molly O'Shea?

  Yeah.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, North, North America.

• 31:19Molly O'Shea?

  I've been told I shouldn't go walking around because if I walk across the bridge right now, I can't come back.

• 31:26Speaker 01

  That would be, I think, an international incident, having the Canadians kidnap one of our top American podcasters as leverage in the trade agreement.

• 31:36Molly O'Shea?

  Kind of sounds like a good idea. I don't know.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  I don't know, but we are in the heart of reindustrializing America here in Detroit and across the border with Canada. And maybe we'll have one day factories on the moon.

• 31:50Molly O'Shea?

  I agree to all of that. I think we should make it happen, and it starts today at reindustrialize.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  I agree. Let's put all the Calci dollars we make from making arbitrage bets into the moon. Like, it's a great idea.

• 32:00Molly O'Shea?

  Perfect.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  Great.

• 32:01Molly O'Shea?

  Thank you, Chris.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me, Molly.

• 32:04Molly O'Shea?

  There you go.

• 32:06Speaker 02

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