Key Change: Shirley Manson on Siouxsie and the Banshees

My guest today is Shirley Manson. Since 1994, she’s been the lead singer of the band Garbage, and she is a bona fide rock icon. The two of us worked together on a different podcast called The Jump, which Shirley hosted and I helped produce. It was a dream of mine to get Shirley as the host of that podcast, partly because, as you’re about to hear, she has one of the greatest voices, and I could listen to her talk about anything. And so I’m especially excited to listen to her today tell me about a song that changed her life. Thanks to Sonos for their support of the podcast. Check out sonos.com. https://www.sonos.com/ For more, visit songexploder.net/keychange. https://songexploder.net/keychange And check out the Song Exploder episode with Garbage from 2014, https://songexploder.net/garbagefeaturing Shirley and her bandmate Butch Vig talking about how they made their song “Felt.”

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Hrishikesh Hirway?

  You're listening to Song Exploder, where musicians take apart their songs and, piece by piece, tell the story of how they were made. I'm Rishi Kesh Hirway.

• 0:11Hrishikesh Hirway?

  I'm going to be on tour, playing some shows this fall. I'm going to be in London on Wednesday, November 18th. I'm going to be performing solo at Rough Trade Records on Denmark Street, and I'm going to be in conversation about my music moderated by one of my favorite actors and writers, Matthew Bainton. And a ticket to the show also gets you a copy of my album on vinyl or CD. And in December, I'm going to be on tour supporting S. Carrie. We're going to be playing a bunch of shows in the Northeast US. So I hope to see you in one of those places. You can find all the details and get links to tickets at songexploder.net/live. That's songexploder.net/live.

• 0:55Hrishikesh Hirway?

  This episode is sponsored by Tidal. If you're an artist or if you know somebody making music, you should know about Tidal Upload. It's a way to share and sell music without the usual barriers. You can upload your music directly to Tidal at no cost. You decide how you want to release it. You can share it publicly with Tidal listeners, or you can keep it private until you're ready. Or you can sell your music directly through Tidal Upload. Your music will also be considered by Tidal's editorial team for their playlists. And if your track is selected for their spotlight program, you'll get $1,000 bonus and you'll be on one of their marquee playlists. And now, Tidal has dropped its platform fee to 0%, which means you keep more of your earnings there than on any other platform.

• 1:39Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Visit tidal.com/songexploder to create an account and start uploading your music for free. That's tidal.com/songexploder for zero platform fees on every sale. Your music, your earnings.

• 1:56Hrishikesh Hirway?

  This episode is sponsored by the podcast, What It's Like to Be. Do you ever think about what other people's workdays look like? Satisfying some of that curiosity is the idea at the heart of bestselling author Dan Heath's podcast, which is called What It's Like to Be. In each episode, Dan interviews someone from a different profession to find out what it's like to be a professional Santa Claus, or a Secret Service agent, or a long haul truck driver, or an aerospace engineer at NASA, just to name a few examples. The show gives you an insider view into all kinds of jobs from a wide range of industries, answering questions like, what do mail carriers learn about us from our mail? There are so many jobs out there that exist only as

• 2:40Hrishikesh Hirway?

  titles in our imagination, if they even register that much. This show is a chance to reach beyond what you know, or think you know. If you're curious to learn more about the work lives of other people, check out What It's Like to Be, wherever you get podcasts. This episode contains explicit language. This is Key Change, where I talk to fascinating people about a song that changed their lives. And my guest today is Shirley Manson. Since 1994, she's been the lead singer of the band Garbage, and she is a bona fide rock icon. The two of us worked together on a different podcast called The Jump, which Shirley hosted and I helped produce. And it was a dream of mine to get Shirley as the host of that podcast, partly because, as you're

• 3:23Hrishikesh Hirway?

  about to hear, she has one of the greatest voices, and I could listen to her talk about anything. And so I'm especially excited to listen to her today. Tell me about a song that changed her life. Shirley, thank you so much for being on the show. Which song are we going to talk about?

• 3:38Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, thank you for that lovely introduction. I wanted to talk about Drop Dead's Celebration, "The B-Side to Happy House", by Susie and the Banshees.

• 3:48Hrishikesh Hirway?

  I love that you picked this song because I know that you have a long history of fandom of Susie and the Banshees, and Susie Sue in particular.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  I do, but the whole Banshees, but Susie in particular, obviously, because she's Susie Sue.

• 4:03Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Well, I think it's fair to say that you're not only a fan of Susie and the Banshees, you're a real expert. You wrote a foreword for a book about them. And so I was wondering, could you give a little bit of an overview about the band for, for anyone who might not be familiar with them?

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, I would never consider myself an expert about anything, but Susie and the Banshees were the most formative band of my career and remain that way, to be fair. They were post punk and I loved the darkness of the guitars and the primal sound of the drums. It felt tribal to me and I felt a member of that tribe. The songwriting's extraordinary as well. I mean, her lyrics are extraordinary in the context of the late seventies, early eighties. They just sounded unlike anybody else. They weren't talking about love. They weren't talking about being cute or getting lost on the dance floor. They were talking about serious things. They were talking about war and they were talking about

• 5:03Speaker 01

  the loss of of life on a battlefield. And she used words that I didn't even understand the meaning of. Like, I learnt the word hybrid by listening to Susie and the Banshees, you know. I mean, she talked about stuff that just I'd never heard any other artist talk about before. So, yeah, she just opened up my mind to a whole world.

• 5:26Hrishikesh Hirway?

  How did that start? How did you first hear Susie and the Banshees?

• 5:30Speaker 01

  I was in my best friend's house, Sarah Griffith. We were upstairs in her bedroom, where we spent many an hour as moody teenagers, lolling around, smoking cigarettes and drinking baby sham at the age of 13. And she had a record player in her bedroom and she introduced me to Susie and the Banshees. And she, we were playing Happy House and I was obsessed with Happy House. But then she flipped it over and she played Drop Dead Celebration, which she wasn't as into as I was. But the minute I heard Drop Dead Celebration, something shifted in me, like my DNA was changed.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  There was something about her delivery, the lyrics, the sound that fascinated me and spoke for me. As a teenager, a young 13 year old, I was being bullied at school. And "Drop Dead Celebration" is a absolute venomous rebuke to someone. And so this, in my mind, was written for me. And all the lyrics were directed towards this girl who was bullying me at school and I was utterly terrified of.

• 6:44Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Had you already heard the A side of that single, "Happy House"? Had you heard that on the radio or something?

• 6:49Speaker 01

  Nope. This was my first introduction, was this one afternoon. I think it was a Sunday afternoon. And back then, of course, we didn't know what anyone looked like. We had no idea what she looked like. I just responded to the sound of her voice. And I loved that Susie sounded super fierce. She didn't sound like all the pop stars of the moment. She wasn't, you know, focusing particularly on a pleasing melody. She wasn't trying to sound sexy or alluring. She sounded fierce. And I just responded to it on a cellular level. This was my sound. And this was my queen. And I just became obsessed.

• 7:33Hrishikesh Hirway?

  And how did that obsession take shape after that?

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, I was desperate for a Susie and the Banshees record to own, right? And so I went to Listen Records, which was up on Frederick Street in Edinburgh, Scotland. And there was "Join Hands", which is not my favorite Susie and the Banshees album, but my first one. And the thing that I was obsessed with was the pictures of the band members on the album artwork. And I was just like, what the fuck is that?

• 8:06Speaker 01

  Because she looked so different from any other woman I'd ever seen in my life, ever.

• 8:12Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Could you describe what the photograph looked like? Do you still remember it?

• 8:15Speaker 01

  It's just a classic black and white photograph and, you know, her spiky black hair and she looks cool as fuck. The thing that really captured my imagination was the black eyeliner. Like she was painted like Cleopatra and in retrospect, I'm pretty damn sure that it was her makeup that really captured my imagination because who didn't want to be Cleopatra when you're 13 and you've got ginger hair and you're getting bullied at school?

• 8:44Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Can you tell me more about the school that you went to? Like, I was wondering, was there a culture or subculture of kids that were also listening to music like this?

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, back then, I grew up in the seventies in Scotland and I went to a government funded school. It wasn't fancy in any way, shape or form, but what was so great about that period in the seventies and early eighties was we all defined ourselves by the music we listened to. And it's something that I noticed has kind of been eroded in our culture since. But back then, that's how we sort of identified ourselves.

• 9:23Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Yeah.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  By choosing the bands that we were obsessed with and the style of music we were obsessed with and making that obvious to the world. And as a result, you got all this incredible plume, if you like, you know, colorful and bold ways of dressing and exploring the music that we were obsessed by. So whether it was the rockabillys, whether it was the mods, whether it was the punks, whether it was the new romantics, I mean, the list is endless, right? Everybody had an identity and that was to me really exciting.

• 9:55Hrishikesh Hirway?

  And so, once you found that music, did that make you want to seek out other people who were like minded? Like, were you looking for other Susie and the Banshees fans?

• 10:03Speaker 01

  Of course, of course. I mean, isn't that what you want to do all your whole life is find your people, right? But we were still very young. I didn't have a lot of money, so I couldn't afford to go to Susie and the Banshees shows and neither would my parents have allowed me. But my best friend, Sarah Griffith. Her parents were much more sort of easy ozy than mine and she went to a Susie and the Banshees show and came back with, like back in the day, you know, like bands would have like tour kind of brochures almost, you know. She brought home this tour brochure and it was the first time I'd seen Susie from top to bottom. Again, she was dressed in leathers, amazing black spiky hair. She had like a Star of David hanging from her neck.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  She just looked so bloody cool and I wanted to be her so badly. And then I started to dress how I imagined Susie would want to dress, but without any kind of budget. My whole style was then sort of formulated slowly based on my obsession with Susie. And then I saw her on Top of the Pops and the obsession was sealed for life. But I never saw them perform Drop Dead Celebration, so that's been my lifelong disappointment. When she came to play a couple of years ago here in LA, I was really hoping, please, please God, please play, please play Drop Dead Celebration, but she didn't. But nevertheless, yeah, this song is just in their whole discography too.

• 11:33Speaker 01

  I feel like this is very unique song and it's full of terror and rage and spite. All the things that, you know, women weren't supposed to display, impatience, disgust, fury, all these emotions. I don't know, I felt like women were supposed to behave a certain way, you know, particularly again, like I said, I was growing up in the seventies. We were literally told things like, you know, young ladies need to smile more, young ladies need to be polite, young ladies need to help with the fucking washing up, that kind of shit. And here was someone who was sticking her finger up at all that.

• 12:13Hrishikesh Hirway?

  And so after you started becoming obsessed with the band and their music, at what point did you decide that maybe you wanted to be in a band yourself?

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Well, I never wanted to be in a band. I just got asked to be in a band. It never even crossed my mind I would be ever in a band.

• 12:28Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Really?

• 12:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. I wanted to be a ballerina. That is the only thing I've ever really burned to do in my life. But I had an accident when I was young and I fucked up my ankle and that was the end of it. And then I fell into an acting group courtesy of a school teacher that plucked a few of the girls that she considered very talented out of our class at school and encouraged us to join Edinburgh Youth Theatre. And so that was when I got introduced to plays and musicals and I became obsessed with that. And the plan after I left school was essentially to go to drama college.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  I did one audition for the Royal Academy in Glasgow, didn't get in, didn't get accepted that summer. And I was knocking around town with nothing to do. And I met this guy at Edinburgh Youth Theatre who asked me if I wanted to play keyboards in his band. Called Goodbye, Mr. Mackenzie. And for want of anything better to do with my time, I said, okay. And so I joined that band for a decade from when I was about 17. I was a keyboard player and backing vocalist and I didn't participate in any of the writing at all. I'd play the parts that the band had written. And the only freedom really I had was I chose whatever backing vocals I wanted to sing.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  So that was my introduction into music, I guess, in that sense.

• 13:56Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Did it start to feel to you like, oh, now I'm a little bit closer to this idol of mine because I'm in a band too?

• 14:04Speaker 01

  Oh, God, no. But with Goodbye, Mr. Mackenzie, our first record came out. And there was some TV show and I was watching the TV show because I knew our video was going to get played for our first single. And I was shocked to see that Susie was the visiting judge. And she said something really lovely about me on air. She said that she really liked the backing vocalist, like it really, she really appealed to her. And of course, I'm like, yeah, that's because I'm your student. And I basically like, of course you like me. But it really meant a lot to me that she'd sort of singled me out of my band for a particular mention.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  And of course, my eye makeup in this video is totally Susie inspired. And yeah, Susie has been a touchstone for me musically and as a figurehead my whole life, even to this day.

• 14:59Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Well, I don't know if you remember this, but this is not even actually the first time that we've talked about this song. In the Song Exploder episode that you did way back in the day, 11 years ago, you mentioned this song specifically as an influence on a vocal thing that you did.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, on the song Felt.

• 15:16Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Yeah.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  There's a backing vocal at the very end that is a total ripoff of Susie Sue.

• 15:20Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Yeah, I just love knowing how much of an influence this song has been in your life for such a long time.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  It has, and it remains that way. I mean, there isn't a day goes by when I'm driving through the streets of LA where I don't whisper to myself, drop dead. When, you know, when you're encountering fellow car drivers of Los Angeles, I think about that phrase, drop dead, almost every single day of my life.

• 15:46Hrishikesh Hirway?

  And when you say that to yourself, is it Susie's voice that you're hearing?

• 15:50Speaker 01

  Of course. Yeah, but the lyrics of that song are extraordinary. Like, I wish I'd written them. Like, when anybody ever says, what song do you wish you'd written? That one.

• 15:57Hrishikesh Hirway?

  What are some of the lyrics from that song that you like the most?

• 16:00Speaker 01

  Oh my God. Keep your mouth shut, you impotent little slut. You know, I'm so ashamed to be connected to your name. It's, I mean, it just goes on and on and on. There's just so many brilliant lines in it.

• 16:13Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:14Hrishikesh Hirway?

  You should be pushed down into the ground.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  Down into the ground amongst the worms and other spineless things, you know? Yeah, I mean, it's just genius. She's an extraordinary writer and I don't know if she's ever really, like, everybody's so bedazzled with how she sounds and how she looks that I haven't seen a lot of. Praise about her actual lyric writing, which I think is extraordinary and again unique. You know, I really believe there's a billion people who can write a brilliant song. I mean, I really believe that. But to write a unique song with your own style, that is difficult, you know, to sound like no one else.

• 16:50Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Yeah.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  There's so many people who are born with incredible musicality and can copy everybody and anybody, but to actually have your own sound, your own style, your own way of writing, that is, I think, really precious. And currently, because everyone's so obsessed with the songs that are the most enormous, the most successful.

• 17:13Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Yeah.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  That's how music is judged these days. To me, I don't care if a song is really successful. I really couldn't care less. The things that capture my attention are the things that sound extraordinarily unique and rare. And that's what I get excited by.

• 17:31Hrishikesh Hirway?

  My conversation with Shirley Manson continues after this.

• 17:38Hrishikesh Hirway?

  There's a new podcast called Before the Moment with Nile Rodgers. In every legendary music career, there's a moment right before it all changes. And in every episode of this podcast, Nile Rodgers talks to a legendary musician about the choices, the events, and the relationships that shaped their career before the moment that everything changed for them. Every story is unique and opens a window into the lives of some of the biggest names in music. And Nile is the perfect person to lead these conversations, because for over 50 years, he's played guitar with artists like Diana Ross, David Bowie, Madonna, Daft Punk, and Beyonce. In the first season of the podcast, some of Nile's guests include

• 18:20Hrishikesh Hirway?

  John Legend, Miguel, and more. New episodes are coming out every other Tuesday. Listen to Before the Moment with Nile Rodgers wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks to Stio for sponsoring Song Exploder. I took a trip to Iceland this summer, and because it was the summer, I didn't really think about dressing for the cold. Even though I was hiking and I was planning on seeing some glaciers, I thought, it's August. But then I got there and I realized I made a huge mistake. Now, though, I have a Stio hometown hooded jacket, and I just wished I'd gotten it before my trip. All of Stio's clothes are designed and tested in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, by locals who live, work, and ski in below-freezing temperatures.

• 19:04Hrishikesh Hirway?

  I'm headed back out into the cold this winter, but now I'll have my insulated hooded Stio jacket. Ski season's almost here, so gear up now, the way the locals do. Go to stio.com/songexploder for 20% off your order. That's S-T-I-O dot com slash songexploder. Stio dot com slash songexploder. Stio, designed and tested in Jackson Hole. This episode is sponsored by LinkedIn. Anyone who's ever had to spend money on marketing knows how tricky it can be to feel like you've spent that money wisely. Well, with LinkedIn Ads, you can be sure that you'll get a great return on your investment.

• 19:46Hrishikesh Hirway?

  You can target your campaigns by company, industry, job title, and more. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn Ads and get a $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com/songexploder. That's LinkedIn.com/songexploder. Terms and conditions apply.

• 20:10Hrishikesh Hirway?

  When you first met the other members of Garbage and that band started to come together, did you talk about your love of Susie and the Banshees with them at all? Was that something that came up in conversation?

• 20:22Speaker 01

  The first meeting I took with the rest of the band was in London at the Landmark Hotel on Edgeware Road. It was the day that we all discovered that Kurt Cobain had taken his life. And so this day is etched in my memory, and this is why I remember this. Steve Marker, he had curly blonde hair and little John Lennon spectacles. And he was wearing a New York Knicks basketball T shirt. And I remember thinking, I like this guy. I like his style. Like, I like the way he presented. And then he mentioned The Cure and he mentioned Susie and the Banshees. And I'm like, oh yeah, this is my person. Like, this is my guy.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  And it immediately made me feel comfortable having this initial meeting with the band. I had no idea where this was gonna go. I had no idea what they were thinking. I had no idea that this would eventually grow into a band. I just knew there were three guys, one who was a very famous music producer at the time. And his two mates wanted to make a record and they were interviewing, literally interviewing prospective singers. And they had seen a video of mine for my band Angel Fish where I'd sung a song called Suffocate Me. And that arguably is quite a Susie influenced vocal. It's very low in register. It's dark and weird.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  And in my own way, I was channeling Susie when I recorded it. So when Steve mentioned Susie and the Banshees and The Cure as sort of influences for him. I felt like, oh, I'm gonna actually fit in quite well. We're on the same wavelength.

• 22:09Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Did you ever get the chance to tell Susie directly how much of an impact that she's had on you?

• 22:14Speaker 01

  I have, I have.

• 22:16Hrishikesh Hirway?

  What was that conversation like?

• 22:18Speaker 01

  I mean, magical, but I was out of my body, you know, I mean, when you meet someone. Like, I've met a lot of famous people, right? Like, my whole career's been littered with meeting unbelievable people. I mean, I've met David Bowie, I've met Iggy Pop, I've met Madonna, you know, like, I've been really spoiled. But meeting Susie was just something a little different because she felt so familiar to me. I met her backstage at an MTV Music Awards show.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  And she already knew who I was and she knew I was a massive fan. But I was thinking, I know every single word of every record you have ever made. And that was all I was thinking of when I was looking at her. My eyes were wide. I can remember I was just sort of outside of my body. And she was totally cool and graceful and kind. So it was a very beautiful meeting and we share publicists actually in the UK. And, you know, there are words sent often of admiration and dedication. But she's very private and still very mysterious to me, you know? And I hope that never leaves me.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  I don't want to become best mates with Suzy because I want her to remain like a deity, you know, a goddess.

• 23:34Hrishikesh Hirway?

  So you haven't ever thought to use your influence to get her to perform Drop Dead Celebration live for you?

• 23:41Speaker 01

  Now you've got me thinking. You know what? I don't think anybody can use any influence on her and I think she's incorruptible. But that's one of the things I love about her too. This, she's not easily pushed around or influenced. I don't think anybody's ever pushed her around, you know?

• 24:00Hrishikesh Hirway?

  You've had this relationship with Suzy Sue. It started back when you were 13. Now that you're an icon yourself, do you think about how you're perceived by young people who are fans of garbage?

• 24:15Speaker 01

  Oh my God, like if my niece and nephew's reaction to me is anything to go by, I don't think I want to know what young people think about me.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  You know, there's nothing more devastating than your young niece and nephew thinking you're the bee's knees. And then all of a sudden they hit adolescence and then, you know, they're just totally like, you know, you're cringe. Shut up. I just assume young people think I'm a loser and that's okay. Because when I was young, I thought all old adults were losers too. I think that is the privilege of youth. I think they should be kicking up against me. I don't think young people should hold any of us in reverence at all. Like their job is to go up against us all and their job is to push the old guard out. And so. Any young people that will tolerate us, I am very grateful for. You know, I think the fact that we've enjoyed this long career, you know, 30 years of a career

• 25:11Speaker 01

  has been in part by the permissiveness of the generations behind us. You know, they decide if they'll allow us to stay on the block a little longer. And I have noticed, like in the last couple of years, more and more young people coming to our shows, which is always really gratifying and I'm very grateful for. But I don't take it for granted. I don't expect it. I'm very grateful to all the fans that have stuck by us for so long. Like, you know, I'm going to be 60 next year. There's something really moving about stepping on stage and recognizing a lot of the fans, knowing them by name, often knowing what has happened in their own lives.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  There's something really profoundly moving about that and really powerful. And so seeing young people juxtaposed against my old guard is really beautiful.

• 26:07Hrishikesh Hirway?

  I was wondering, whatever happened with the bully?

• 26:10Speaker 01

  You know, it's really sad what happened with the bully because she got pulled out of school. I was at home economics class. We were making, we were learning how to make an upside down pineapple cake. And, and she started picking on me and I blew a fuse, basically told her to go fuck herself. And she said, all right, I'm going to see you at the end of school. You better meet me at the school gates. I'm going to give you a battering. This is how we used to speak back in the seventies in Scotland. Meet me at the school gates, I'm going to batter you is exactly what she said to me. And so after home economics class, I went home, put my monkey boots on, pulled out all my earrings, turned up at the school gates and she didn't appear.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  And I never, ever heard or saw of her again. And it was only like weeks later that we found out it was because she had been pulled out of school because she was pregnant at 14 years of age and got pulled from school. And then I never, ever heard from her again.

• 27:08Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Do you think that standing up to her in that moment had anything to do with having heard "Drop Dead" celebration?

• 27:15Speaker 01

  Probably, because I was definitely fueled by that song. I played it over and over and over again. And I had gone to my parents and asked them to intervene. And my, both my parents were like, no, you need to figure out how to deal with this yourself. I think that's why I've always had this intense connection to this song, because it did fuel that fighter warrior response in me and emboldened me. I mean, 100% made me feel like I could exist in the world if I employed that kind of energy. And I also think it fueled my resistance throughout my career. Because without my fight, without my resistance, I wouldn't have survived 30 years in the

• 27:59Speaker 01

  music industry, which is incredibly cruel to women. I mean, it's cruel to everyone. It's cruel to absolutely everyone, but particularly to aging women. And I have learnt, at the encouragement of Susie, not to be obedient.

• 28:16Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Thank you so much, Shirley.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  All right, my love. Take care.

• 28:20Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Garbage has a new album out called "Let All That We Imagine Be The Light." You can learn more at garbage.com and check out the Song Exploder episode with Garbage from 2014, featuring Shirley and her bandmate Butch Vig talking about how they made their song "Felt." You can find it at songexploder.net/garbage or scroll all the way back to episode 10 of the podcast. And go to songexploder.net/keachange for more episodes and for a playlist with all the songs that have been discussed on the series. I'll be back with a new Song Exploder episode next time, but stay tuned for more Key Change episodes in the future. This episode was produced by me and Mary Dolan, with production assistance from Tiger Biscuit. Special thanks to Billy Bush for recording Shirley Side on the interview.

• 29:04Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Song Exploder is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent, listener-supported, artist-owned podcasts. You can learn more about our shows at radiotopia.fm. If you'd like to hear more from me, you can sign up for my newsletter, which you can find on the Song Exploder website. And if you'd like to support the show in another way, you can get a Song Exploder t-shirt at songexploder.net/shirt. I'm Rishi Kesh Hirway. Thanks for listening.

• 29:36Speaker 02

  Radiotopia.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  From PRX.