Hit-Boy and Nipsey Hussle - Racks In the Middle (feat. Roddy Ricch and Hit-Boy)

Hit-Boy is an award-winning producer and rapper from LA. He’s one of my all-time favorite producers, from “Backseat Freestyle” by Kendrick Lamar, to “Sicko Mode” by Travis Scott, to tracks he’s made for Beyonce, Nas, and the Jay-Z & Kanye album Watch the Throne. So I was really excited to talk to him, and when I asked him which song from his incredible catalog he wanted to talk about, I was really moved by his choice. He picked “Racks in the Middle” by Nipsey Hussle, featuring Roddy Ricch. Nipsey Hussle was a rapper and community activist from LA whose career was cut short, tragically, when he was murdered in 2019. He’d released just one album, Victory Lap. “Racks in the Middle” was the last song released in Nipsey’s lifetime. It went platinum, and a year after his death, it won the Grammy for Best Rap Performance, in 2020. This episode features a few short clips from a video that Nipsey Hussle made for the website Genius, back in 2019. There’s a link to the full video that he made in the shownotes. But here in the studio, to tell the story, I spoke to Hit-Boy about how “Racks in the Middle” came together. To learn more, visit songexploder.net/hit-boy. https://songexploder.net/hit-boy

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Hrishikesh Hirway?

  You're listening to Song Exploder, where musicians take apart their songs and, piece by piece, tell the story of how they were made. I'm Rishi Kesh Hirway.

• 0:11Hrishikesh Hirway?

  I'm going to be on tour, playing some shows this fall. I'm going to be in London on Wednesday, November 18th. I'm going to be performing solo at Rough Trade Records on Denmark Street, and I'm going to be in conversation about my music moderated by one of my favorite actors and writers, Matthew Bainton. And a ticket to the show also gets you a copy of my album on vinyl or CD. And in December, I'm going to be on tour supporting S. Carrie. We're going to be playing a bunch of shows in the Northeast US. So I hope to see you in one of those places. You can find all the details and get links to tickets at songexploder.net/live. That's songexploder.net/live.

• 0:55Hrishikesh Hirway?

  This episode is sponsored by Tidal. If you're an artist or if you know somebody making music, you should know about Tidal Upload. It's a way to share and sell music without the usual barriers. You can upload your music directly to Tidal at no cost. You decide how you want to release it. You can share it publicly with Tidal listeners, or you can keep it private until you're ready. Or you can sell your music directly through Tidal Upload. Your music will also be considered by Tidal's editorial team for their playlists. And if your track is selected for their spotlight program, you'll get $1,000 bonus and you'll be on one of their marquee playlists. And now, Tidal has dropped its platform fee to 0%, which means you keep more of your earnings there than on any other platform.

• 1:39Hrishikesh Hirway?

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• 1:56Hrishikesh Hirway?

  There's a new podcast called Before the Moment with Nile Rodgers. In every legendary music career, there's a moment right before it all changes. And in every episode of this podcast, Nile Rodgers talks to a legendary musician about the choices, the events, and the relationships that shaped their career before the moment that everything changed for them. Every story is unique and opens a window into the lives of some of the biggest names in music. And Nile is the perfect person to lead these conversations because for over 50 years, he's played guitar with artists like Diana Ross, David Bowie, Madonna, Daft Punk, and Beyonce. In the first season of the podcast, some of Nile's guests include John Legend, Miguel,

• 2:39Hrishikesh Hirway?

  and more. New episodes are coming out every other Tuesday. Listen to Before the Moment with Nile Rodgers wherever you get your podcasts. This episode contains explicit language.

• 2:52Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Hit Boy is an award-winning producer and rapper from LA. He's one of my all-time favorite producers, from Backseat Freestyle by Kendrick Lamar to Sicko Mode by Travis Scott to tracks he's made for Beyonce, Nas, and the Jay-Z and Kanye album Watch the Throne. So I was really excited to talk to him. And when I asked him which song from his incredible catalog he wanted to talk about, I was really moved by his choice. He picked "Racks in the Middle" by Nipsey Hussle, featuring Roddy Ricch. Nipsey Hussle was a rapper and community activist from LA whose career was cut short tragically when he was murdered in 2019. He'd released just one album, Victory Lap. "Racks in the Middle" was the last song released in Nipsey's lifetime. It went platinum, and a year after his death,

• 3:36Hrishikesh Hirway?

  it won the Grammy for Best Rap Performance in 2020. This episode features a few short clips from a video that Nipsey Hussle made for the website Genius back in 2019. There's a link to the full video that he made in the show notes. But here in the studio to tell the story, I spoke to Hit Boy about how "Racks in the Middle" came together.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  And I've been riding solo trying to rebuild. I was riding around in a B-12 with the racks in the middle. Had to pray to Almighty God, they let my dog out to kill him. When you get it straight up out in the mud, you can't imagine this shit. I've been pulling up in the drop tops with the baddest bitch. Young nigga been focused on my check.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I go by the name of Hit Boy.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  I'm on YouTube a lot. That's why I discover a lot of new artists and just new music and what's going on. So Roddy Ricch, he had a song called "Die Young." This is before he was signed or anything. Like, he was just like an independent artist doing his thing. And I just kept playing "Die Young" every day at the studio. I would just come in, watch the video, show it to people, just share it. And I was just like, yo, this song is crazy. This kid is about to go, you know, insane in the industry.

• 5:00Hrishikesh Hirway?

  What about that song spoke to you so much?

• 5:02Speaker 02

  It was just raw. It was just real, authentic, you know, and that's what I respected. So I had a homie named Knowledge who was doing some A and R work at Atlantic. So he knew that I was a fan of Roddy. And I was working at a studio called Chalice. That's in West Hollywood. And Knowledge told me that Roddy Ricch would be at Chalice working with Future. I didn't know if I would meet him, but I was like, man, Roddy is over here. So let me just make a beat in that Roddy vein, just in case I get that moment where it's like we connect. Like, you know, I could play him a beat that's like, I know almost for certain that he'll like.

• 5:40Hrishikesh Hirway?

  When you're looking for the next thing that you're gonna work on, how do you decide who you want to make a beat for?

• 5:46Speaker 02

  Man, honestly, a lot of my hits came from me not actually making a beat for anybody. You know, it's just like having fun with it. So I never even actually meant to be a producer. Like, I just was like rapping and the kid that I was in a group with made the beats, sat down at his laptop one day and I'm like, yo, this is fun. Like, prior to I started making beats, I would play video games every day after school. And I do, I look at production like a video game. The blocks looking like Tetris, that sound communication with the visual is like, it's a video game to me. And it still is to this day, just clicking these blocks. And then it's like, I just developed into me obsessing over it. So how did that change? Like, how does that work for you when you're like, still trying to follow your own compass,

• 6:31Speaker 02

  but you also have some, an artist's mind? So this is the thing. I really get charged up and I'm able to crank out a lot of beats when I know I have a specific artist coming. Like, if I know they're coming to see me, that puts a battery in my back. Like, it's just more inspiration when you know, like, oh, Jay-Z want me to come through, Kanye want me to come through, Beyonce, whatever, you know? I knew Roddy Ricch was across the way. So I'm like, let me make something that kinda feels like, like a progression of what "Die Young" is. You know what I mean? I was such a fan of that song and a fan of him off of that song. I'm like, I would like to make something with him that I feel like could fit in that world. And so when you have that idea in mind, where did you start? So I started with, shout out to my boy Corbett. I produced a lot of stuff with him.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  And he gave me that main choir that pretty much goes through the whole song.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  And it was at like a different pitch and a different tempo. I just took it, finessed it, you know, looped that up and then just built off of that. How did that original sound from Corbett come to you? Corbett just sends me packs, hundreds of sounds, folders. It's like, I'll just wake up to a WeTransfer, just a bunch of sounds and, you know, I'll just kind of load them up. And as I'm cooking, sometimes I'll try to drop stuff in, see how I could finesse the music into what I'm doing. And that was just a loop that I had. And when I just felt that initial feeling, it's like the harmonies, the blend, how he did it, the reverb on it, like, everything just felt haunting, West Coast, but it just felt good at the same time.

• 8:11Speaker 02

  Then Corbett actually came and added some more, like, this little pluck key synth thing.

• 8:31Speaker 02

  Then my boy, uh, G. Dave came in and did the bassline. We programmed the drums together. It was kinda like a co-production in a real way.

• 8:47Speaker 02

  You hear the bounce on the drums, like all them sounds is like a factory and everything is just working together beautifully.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  The counter lead, like it got that wobbly sound to it, kinda pitchy.

• 9:06Speaker 02

  That's like a synth out of an atmosphere, keep the momentum up and keep the melody moving.

• 9:11Hrishikesh Hirway?

  What was your intention? What are you hoping to bring out with sounds like that?

• 9:16Speaker 02

  Just what sounds like it's still in pocket, but just sounds weird is possible, you know what I mean? Just like, let's just keep taking it to outer space.

• 9:35Hrishikesh Hirway?

  One of the first things that we hear in the song is your Hip Boy producer tag. I was just wondering if you could tell me more about that? Like, how did that come about?

• 9:42Speaker 02

  I had that tag maybe since like 2018. I was using my tag a lot at that time, cause I felt like I had spent so much time before that, prior years to this song coming out and prior years to where I was at at that time in life. I was just like giving away a lot of beats, basically made nothing off those beats. And so, man, I was like, yo, I missed all them years when I could have had my tag on big beats, you know?

• 10:07Hrishikesh Hirway?

  That's so interesting. I mean, like, cause I'm somebody who always looks at the liner notes. So I always, all my favorite songs, I know who produced. So it's never occurred to me to think that you missed out on anything by not having a tag.

• 10:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, cause that's where the game went, you know? Mike Will made it, but DJ Mustard, Metro Boomin, they all like started getting invited to festivals to DJ because they had songs on the radio that had their tags on it. They started getting extra money because they had their branding more out there. And it's like, damn, I feel like I had missed that window. Cause I used to be like, imagine if niggas in Paris had Hip Boy in the beginning. I probably, I don't even know where my life will be right now. You know what I mean? So, whole day goes by, it's maybe 12 a.m., 1 a.m., something like that, it's late. And my boy Knowledge come knock at my door, he's like, "Yo, Roddy wanna say what up? He bout to head out, but he just wanna, you know, meet you." So he came in my room, just said what's up, you know, I told him I was a fan and respected what he was doing,

• 11:04Speaker 02

  you know, seeing his movement, going crazy, and um, before he dipped, he had his backpack on and everything, it was literally like the peace out moment. I was like, "Let me play you this beat."

• 11:17Speaker 02

  He was like, "Man, let me try something to it, load it up." Did the hook.

• 11:22Hrishikesh Hirway?

  The same day.

• 11:22Speaker 02

  Right there, on the spot. I was right round in the B-12 with the racks in the middle. Had to pray to almighty God, they let my dog out the kennel. When you get it straight up out the mud, you can't imagine these shits. I been pulling up in the drop tops with the baddest bitch. Young nigga been focused on my check, mhm. Got a new coupe wrapped round my neck, mhm. Trying to put the water on my potato, mhm. I got killers to the left of me, mhm.

• 11:49Hrishikesh Hirway?

  How did that feel in that moment, to have the artist come in and record something great right away?

• 11:55Speaker 02

  Following my intuition has like led to most of my success. And that one was like jackpot, you know? So, he laid the hook, he did a whole verse to it, actually. The next day, I'm playing the song, everybody's going crazy, my whole team, we like, "Yo, I was thinking about putting out a producer album, kinda like a Khalid-esque lane, just creating collaborations." So I was like, "This could be Hit Boy featuring Roddy Ricch."

• 12:20Speaker 02

  And let's possibly get somebody else on it. I was thinking about like who it could be, thought about Nipsey, and it just so happened that Nipsey wanted to get in with me anyway. It had been a while since me and Nip connected, cuz we worked on other songs, I worked on Mailbox Money, I did a song with him and Rick Ross called "Hundred a Show", and we always had a rapport, had a respect for each other. He had rapped on one of my songs called "Alert" back in like 2013, and I'm like, "Man, I gotta take advantage of this relationship, man, I gotta get this dude a real banger, a real hit, you know?"

• 12:51Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Do you remember how you two first connected, the very first time?

• 12:54Speaker 02

  It was a song called "Thugging", I think this might have been 2008, 2009, something like that. But yeah, once we reconnected, I'm like, "Yo, man, I always had a point to prove at that point, just for myself, like..." I just wanted to make as many bangers as possible for all the artists that wanted to work with me. So we linked up. I played Nipsey Racks in the Middle. He was like, yo, run that back. I played it for him again. He was like, bro, I need this song for my next album post Victory Lap, because he was working on that for years. Like, that was his only album. And he was like, this song, Racks in the Middle, can help me usher in my new wave, my next moment, leading it up to the new album, you know? So I just, you know, on the spot, I'm like, cool, let's do it.

• 13:38Hrishikesh Hirway?

  The story of Racks in the Middle continues after this.

• 13:44Hrishikesh Hirway?

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• 14:31Hrishikesh Hirway?

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• 15:07Hrishikesh Hirway?

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• 15:50Hrishikesh Hirway?

  out there that exist only as titles in our imagination, if they even register that much. This show is a chance to reach beyond what you know, or think you know. If you're curious to learn more about the work lives of other people, check out What It's Like to Be, wherever you get podcasts.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  Nipsey and Roddy was already cool, you know what I mean? So they had respect for each other and everything just made sense.

• 16:15Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Here's Nipsey Hussle talking about when he first heard what Hit Boy and Roddy Ricchard made.

• 16:20Speaker 03

  Just the way it dropped, it sound new, but it was banging.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  I got killers to the left of me.

• 16:26Speaker 03

  Then when I heard what he was saying, I had a song in my head for it already. I know the story he telling and you know, the place he represent, I know about that place. So I understand it. So he muted Roddy's verse and he kept the Roddy hook and he ended up putting three verses on it.

• 16:44Speaker 04

  We was lurking on her. They show no mercy on her. We was going back to back. We put a curfew on her. It was dark clouds on us, but that was perfect for us. We know you always crash and burn, but it was working for us.

• 16:57Speaker 02

  Nipsey was one of the realest guys I ever met. Very authentic, very gangster.

• 17:02Speaker 04

  Hold up, let the beat bill. See me in the streets still. I been fighting battles up a steep hill.

• 17:08Speaker 02

  He did express to me that he wanted people to know like he's more than a rapper. Like he's a great songwriter, you know? And that's the people I connect with the most. You know, some people can rap, they can go in a ready on freestyle for 20, 30 minutes and it could be amazing, but you put them in the studio, they can't make a interesting song, they can't pick the right beat, whatever it may be. Man, I feel like you gotta have some producer in you, man. Like you gotta be able to pick the right beat, the right pocket, the right tempo, understand melody. It's not just about like, let me just get on here and say the dopest punchlines. And you know, that, that does work for some people, it could work, but to have a song with replay value that you want to start over soon as it ends, like it gotta be something that catches your ear from the time it comes on till it goes off.

• 17:53Speaker 02

  And some people are just like, you know, don't know how to do that.

• 17:57Speaker 04

  Under no condition would you ever catch me slipping. Motivated shooters plus the Maybach chauffeur driven. If they catch me with it, don't send me off to prison. Judge ain't sympathizing, court don't show forgiveness.

• 18:10Hrishikesh Hirway?

  As Nipsey was recording his parts, what were you thinking about while you were listening? Were you thinking about like his vocal delivery or the music? What were you focused on?

• 18:20Speaker 02

  Like how to elevate the production to where the song is going, you know what I mean? It was a lot of post-production, especially tours, once the song starts to progress.

• 18:35Speaker 02

  I love that little transition, that little reverse guitar.

• 18:39Hrishikesh Hirway?

  And I love the part in the verse when the drums change.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  The drums are there, but they're filtered and just like what he was saying on that part, I just wanted people to hear him, you know what I mean? Instead of being distracted by what the hi-hats or the drums are doing, it's just like take the highs out of the whole drum track and just let his voice be the main cadence for that part. When he talked about his friend Fats dying.

• 19:08Speaker 04

  Damn, I wish my nigga Fats was here. How you die thirty something after banging all them years?

• 19:14Speaker 02

  He was in my studio, hoodie wrapped up, tied up around his head. He had tears coming down his face as he was writing the verse.

• 19:21Speaker 03

  Fats, you know, that's one of my best friends. One of the people that really believed that we could do something else besides gang banging. I feel terrible that I can't. I'm the one that just get to feel it. Fats don't get to feel it.

• 19:34Speaker 04

  Grammy nominated, in the sauna shedding tears. All this money, power, fame, and I can't make you reappear, but I don't wipe them though. We just embrace the only life we know.

• 19:43Speaker 03

  I was really emotional rapping them lyrics. That's why I said, "But I don't wipe them though." Because that shit was running down my face as I'm rapping. I'm in the studio with Hit Boy. I felt embarrassed to be tearful in front of people, but then I reassure myself because that's really from the heart, you know what I'm saying?

• 20:00Speaker 02

  That moment, just like, when I think about it, I get the chills. It's like, him losing his life not long after talking about his friend losing his life. Unbelievable, man.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  Man, I definitely go back into that time. I see everything. The mixing session, the recording session, and him with the hoodie wrapped around his head, him sleeping in the car. I feel everything.

• 20:29Hrishikesh Hirway?

  How long were you two working on the song together? And how long did it take for it to come out?

• 20:35Speaker 02

  This wasn't just made in a day. It was maybe like an eight-day process of like him like coming, starting the first verse, then finish it, boom, come back the next day. Tell me he gonna come back the third day, don't show up. The fourth day, he doesn't tell me he's coming, then he shows up. It was just a process of us really turning this song out and just taking our time. And like, you know, he took his time to really put those three verses together masterfully. We dropped the artwork for this song right after the Grammys. So he was nominated for victory lap at the Grammys, and he lost to Cardi B. And then the song I was a part of that year, Sicko Mode, was nominated. And that did not win either.

• 21:17Speaker 02

  And so basically, somehow we like both leaving the venue, Staples Center, boom, we meet up. He right here, I'm right here. It's like, damn, that's crazy. He like, man, let's drop this artwork. We're gonna drop the song like tomorrow or a couple of days, whatever it was, and let's go crazy.

• 21:32Speaker 03

  I knew that the record was gonna be powerful.

• 21:36Speaker 02

  And so, I think we put this song out first week of February, something like that. Not much time went by after that song dropped, and he was murdered.

• 21:45Speaker 05

  A lot of hearts are heavy today because Grammy nominated hip hop artist Nipsey Hussle was fatally shot yesterday outside of his clothing store.

• 21:56Speaker 02

  Fast forward the next year at the Grammys, we win, but he's not there.

• 22:04Speaker 02

  So it's like, super bittersweet.

• 22:14Hrishikesh Hirway?

  And now, here's "Racks in the Middle" by Nipsey Hussle, featuring Hip-Boy and Roddy Ricch, in its entirety.

• 22:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Drop out, Nipsey. Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ay.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. I was riding out in the V-12 with the racks in the middle. I was riding around in the V-12 with the racks in the middle. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was riding around in the V-12 with the racks in the middle. Had to pray to almighty god, they let my dog out to kill him. When you get it straight up out the mud, you can't imagine this shit. I been pulling up in the drop tops with the baddest bitch. Young nigga been focused on my check, mhm. Got a new coupe wrapped around my neck, mhm. Trying to put the water on my protect, mhm. I got killers to the left of me, mhm.

• 23:09Speaker 04

  We was lurking on her. Ain't show no mercy on her. We was going back to back, we put a curfew on her. It was dark clouds on us, but that was perfect for us. We know you always crash and burn, but it was working for us. Lemon tinted V-12, double check the details. Got to cross my tears and die my eyes where I can't sleep well. Millions off a retail, once again I prevail. Knew that shit was over from the day I dropped my pre-sale. Hold up, let the beat bill. See me in the streets still. I been fighting battles up a steep hill. They gave my roll dog 12, it was a sweet deal.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  And I been ridin' solo tryna rebuild, uh I was ridin' round in the V12 with the racks in the middle Had to pray to almighty god they let my dog out the kennel When you get it straight about the mud you can't imagine these shit I been pullin' up in the drop tops with the baddest bitch Young nigga been focused on my check, mhm Got a new coupe wrapped round my neck, mhm Tryna put the water on my protect, mhm I got killers to the left of me, mhm

• 24:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, uh, under no condition would you ever catch me slippin' Motivated shooters plus the Maybach chauffeur drivin' They catch me wit it, don't send me off to prison Judge ain't sympathizin', court don't show forgiveness Engine in the Lambo drownin' out the music Sip Dior with the flowers, five gold cubas Champagne while I shop, hope I splurge foolish Closing Astro twice this month, both commercial units Damn, I wish my nigga Fast was here How you die at thirty something after banging all them years? Grammy nominated, in the sauna shedding tears All this money, power, fame and I can't make you reappear But I don't wipe them though, we just embrace the only life we know If it was me, I'd tell you nigga lay your life and grow

• 24:53Speaker 04

  I'd tell you finish where we started, reach them heights, you know? Gas to V12 till the pipe is smoke

• 24:59Speaker 01

  I was ridin' round in the V12 with the racks in the middle Had to pray to almighty god they let my dog out the kennel When you get it straight about the mud you can't imagine these shit I been pullin' up in the drop tops with the baddest bitch Young nigga been focused on my check, mhm Got a new coupe wrapped round my neck, mhm Tryna put the water on my protect, mhm I got killers to the left of me, mhm

• 25:22Speaker 04

  Another million dollar bill, that's just some regular shit See my granny on the jet, some shit I'll never forget Next day we flew to Vegas with my Puma connects We break bread, we ain't knew the success Blade music invest, enterprise take lucrative steps Cold game, but I knew it was chess As a youth in the set, learn the game, you a student at best But it's a couple things you can expect, uh Just like money, no money, niggas shooters respect Other shooters, we was both throwing my crew on your neck I'm on the freeway in the drop, it got me losing my breath Do the dash with the blues on the deck

• 26:12Hrishikesh Hirway?

  To learn more, visit songexploder.net. You'll find links to buy or stream Racks in the Middle, and you can watch the music video. There's also the video that I mentioned earlier from Genius, where Nipsey Hussle breaks down the lyrics of Racks in the Middle. This episode was produced by me, Craig Ely, Mary Dolan, and Kathleen Smith, with production assistance from Tiger Biscuit. The episode artwork is by Carlos Lerma, and I made the show's theme music and logo. Special thanks to Alon Zechari for his help with this episode. Song Exploder is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent, listener-supported, artist-owned podcasts. You can learn more about our shows at radiotopia.fm. If you'd like to hear more from me, I write a newsletter, where I write about the making

• 26:56Hrishikesh Hirway?

  of some of these episodes, and about music and film and the creative process. You can find a link to the newsletter on the Song Exploder website. You can also get a Song Exploder shirt at songexploder.net/shirt. I'm Rishi Kesh Hirway. Thanks for listening.