Yusuf / Cat Stevens - Father and Son

The legendary singer/songwriter Yusuf / Cat Stevens released his first album in 1967. He’s a member of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, and his albums have sold millions. In 2020, he released Tea for the Tillerman², a re-imagining of his hit 1970 album Tea for the Tillerman. In the song “Father & Son,” he sings a duet between the two title characters, doing both voices. But in the 2020 version, he approached this song in a kind of astonishing way—he recorded the part of the father, but for the part of the son, he used a live recording of himself from 1970, taken from a show he played at The Troubadour in Los Angeles. So the two parts are still both sung in his voice, but 50 years apart. In this episode, the 200th episode of Song Exploder, Yusuf / Cat Stevens tells the story of how he created, and then re-created “Father & Son.” For more, visit songexploder.net/yusuf-cat-stevens http://songexploder.net/yusuf-cat-stevens.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Hrishikesh Hirway?

  You're listening to Song Exploder, where musicians take apart their songs and, piece by piece, tell the story of how they were made. I'm Rishi Kesh Hirway.

• 0:11Hrishikesh Hirway?

  I'm going to be on tour, playing some shows this fall. I'm going to be in London on Wednesday, November 18th. I'm going to be performing solo at Rough Trade Records on Denmark Street, and I'm going to be in conversation about my music moderated by one of my favorite actors and writers, Matthew Bainton. And a ticket to the show also gets you a copy of my album on vinyl or CD. And in December, I'm going to be on tour supporting S. Carry. We're going to be playing a bunch of shows in the Northeast US. So I hope to see you in one of those places. You can find all the details and get links to tickets at songexploder.net/live. That's songexploder.net/live.

• 0:55Hrishikesh Hirway?

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• 1:39Hrishikesh Hirway?

  New episodes are coming out every other Tuesday. Listen to Before the Moment with Nile Rodgers wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:47Speaker 01

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• 2:18Hrishikesh Hirway?

  There's a Steven Soderbergh movie called The Limy, and it stars the late Terence Stamp, the British actor. And in the movie, there are moments where Terence Stamp's character drifts into memory and it goes into a flashback. And in those flashbacks to his younger self, they cut to footage of Terence Stamp from the 1967 film Poor Cow. There's no weird CGI de-aging or anything. You get to see his actual younger self. And I just love that. I was thinking about that recently, and it made me want to revisit this episode because Yusef Cat Stevens kind of did a musical version of that same thing when he rerecorded his song Father and Son. I think it's such a fascinating way to document the actual passing of time by interacting with your younger self.

• 3:03Hrishikesh Hirway?

  This episode came out originally in 2021, and it was a special episode of the podcast also because it was our 200th. Here it is.

• 3:17Hrishikesh Hirway?

  The legendary singer-songwriter Yusef Cat Stevens released his first album in 1967. He's a member of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and his albums have sold millions. In 2020, he released Tea for the Tiller Man 2, a reimagining of his hit 1970 album, Tea for the Tiller Man. In the song Father and Son, he sings a duet between the two title characters, doing both voices. But in the 2020 version, he approached the song in kind of an astonishing way. He recorded the part of the father, but for the part of the son, he used a live recording of himself from 1970, taken from a show he played at the Troubadour in Los Angeles. So the two parts are still both sung in his voice, but 50 years apart. In this episode, the 200th episode of Song Exploder,

• 4:02Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Yusef Cat Stevens tells the story of how he created and then recreated Father and Son.

• 4:07Speaker 02

  Take your time, think a lot. Think of everything you've got. The you will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not.

• 4:25Speaker 03

  My name is Yusuf Cat Stevens.

• 4:29Hrishikesh Hirway?

  The story begins with songs and lyrics that weren't originally intended for an album.

• 4:33Speaker 03

  They grew out of a whole project which I was working on, which was a musical. I'd always wanted to write a musical because I lived in the West End and so therefore I was surrounded by theatres and it shaped the background, the soundtrack to my life. And so I was working with a man called Nigel Hawthorne, well-known actor, comedian and a writer. And we were chosen as a subject for the musical, "The Russian Revolution." Well, the name of the musical was "Revolution." And there was this story going on in the countryside. This Russian family lived on a farm, you know, out there in the outskirts. Well, their son's name was Sasha and the father's name was Dad, you know, who's father.

• 5:17Speaker 03

  And the son, in this scene, was wanting to join the revolution.

• 5:31Speaker 03

  But the father loves you, you know, he loves you. That's why he wants you to stay home.

• 6:06Speaker 03

  I think as a writer, you know, you take on all sorts of characters and personalities. But when you're writing for a musical, of course, you have to do that much more seriously. You must enter the character that you're writing about. But a lot of my songs were very, very autobiographical, I would say. And so there was always two sides of me, you know, there was the side which, you know, wanted to get out and do things and the other side, "I kind of like things the way they are for now." So it was me talking to me in two different states of mind. And you know, all the nuances of what a young man would be thinking when there's a revolution outside his front door, you know, that was pretty simple to put together. And then the words simply followed.

• 6:50Speaker 03

  The song itself wasn't difficult to perform as two people, because I just simply shifted the octave up for the son and down for the father. And that kind of has its own impact on the emotion.

• 7:19Speaker 03

  At that point, we wanted to get some backing for the musical. So my manager, he had some connections with some pretty rich people. We met one of them. And when he heard this thing, he wasn't really interested, but he knew someone who was in the music business, and his name was Chris Blackwell. Chris Blackwell, of course, ran Island Records. Now, Island Records was a really, you know, elite label with a real leaning towards allowing artists to express themselves. Well, that's pretty great. So we played some of the songs. When we got to Father and Son, I think his jaw dropped. And he said, "Look, I want to talk some more about this." But then, when we met next, he offered me, you know, a record contract.

• 8:04Speaker 03

  And that was really, you know, that took me right off course as far as my musical was concerned. So I said, "Yeah, well, okay." You know, he said, "We'll put you together with a producer." And that's where I got introduced to Paul Samuel Smith. I used to go and listen to him. He was the bass player with The Yardbirds. So I used to dance to his music in the club and just down the road from where I lived, in Oxford Street. So we worked through all the songs, and of course, one of them would have been Father and Son. It was. But I didn't like the way it turned out. So it never ended up on the first album that I recorded, called Mona Bone Jackan. So the second album was where we were really primed, I think, after the first.

• 8:47Speaker 03

  And the second one just seemed to work. So that was Tea for the Telemann.

• 9:16Speaker 03

  When I sang that song in Morgan Studios, which is where we finally got hold of the song, it was a moment when I was singing the son's part, when I could actually hear the timbre, the sound of my own father's voice. And that was very strange because I was singing the son's part, but I got my father's voice up there. He was from Cyprus, so he had a very strong Mediterranean passionate side. You knew when he was angry, you know. And so I got that kind of anger out of me in the role of the son. And it was a very important moment in my recording of memories, that moment where I sounded like my father, but I was singing the son's part. Strange.

• 10:11Speaker 03

  But Dad was always supportive of me. He was much more relaxed with me. And, you know, he bought my first guitar, you know. He didn't quite understand what the music business was all about, but he thought, well, if it makes a living, hmm, it's OK. And he used to always ask my brother, "How's Stevie?", because, you know, he used to call me Stevie. He said, "How's Stevie? Is he doing all right?" And David would say, "Yeah, he's doing very well, Dad."

• 10:35Hrishikesh Hirway?

  In fact, "T for the Tillerman" went on to go triple platinum. And in 2003, Rolling Stone included it in their list of the greatest albums of all time.

• 10:45Speaker 03

  I didn't really intend to do another version, to be honest, but it was my son's idea when we were talking about what to do for the 50th anniversary of the release of "T for the Tillerman", so, "What are we going to do?" And he suggested, you know, this idea, "Well, then we'd record it again, because, you know, you're singing it kind of differently today." I said, "Well, that's a good idea." It was nothing about doing an old kind of replicate of what I'd done before. I just wanted to live them again, as I do when I sing them, you know, live. And that was the idea. So that's how we got back to recording "Father and Son" again.

• 11:21Speaker 03

  My son has a lot of good ideas. It was, again, my son who suggested maybe we could pick, you know, a voice from the 1970s or some of the old recordings, and that could be the son, and then I could be singing the father's part. I don't think that's gonna work. Using the original vocal was an idea, but it's kind of a repeat, and I didn't want to just do that. So we wanted to use something from that moment in time, but something new, something different that other people, you know, haven't heard. But you know what? We found this great recording of me singing "Father and Son" in the Troubadour back in 1970.

• 12:18Speaker 03

  I thought, "I think this might work."

• 12:25Speaker 03

  The first thing to do was actually to lay down the whole song.

• 12:36Speaker 03

  So that's basically what we did. We laid down the whole song, including the part which would be taken over by the 1970s version.

• 12:58Speaker 03

  Anyway, when we finally got into the studio, there were lots of ideas, and this was one of them, you know, to have the son shipped in from 1970. There were other things, too. I'd actually been involved in putting on a kind of a musical again. I wrote this thing called "Moon Shadow", and because we did that, and because "Father and Son" was in it, I'd come up with all these new ideas. One of them was this counterpoint melody, which I really loved, and it's played by a slide guitar.

• 13:41Speaker 03

  Et des voix entrent.

• 13:58Speaker 03

  La bande que j'utilisais pour la plupart du album de Tifa et Siloman II étaient les gars avec lesquels je jouais en live. Et mes chansons, plus récemment, ont pris plus tendance à la guitare électrique. Et donc, l'autre riff intéressant que j'ai trouvé était vraiment très joli et j'ai trouvé que ça lui donnait un touché moderne.

• 14:30Speaker 03

  Quand je vais en live, les gens veulent évidemment entendre les chansons qu'ils aiment, les chansons avec lesquelles ils ont grandi. Et je chante ces chansons. Mais je dois essayer de faire en sorte qu'elles soient plus réelles pour mes propres purposes et de répondre à l'émotion de la chanson encore. Et donc oui, je trouve de nouvelles façons d'exprimer quelque chose de moi-même aujourd'hui dans ces chansons.

• 15:03Speaker 03

  C'est une décision, savoir ou non d'ajouter des stringues ou non. Mais la chanson certainement mérite des stringues.

• 15:29Speaker 03

  L'un des lyrics que j' trouve très intrigant et que j'aime penser. Il dit : "Il y a une voie, je sais, je dois partir." Ce second "away" pourrait être "a-way", ou ça pourrait être "away". "Je dois partir." De toute façon, ça me fascine.

• 15:52Speaker 03

  Even though you would expect that I would start to like take the father's role, I certainly don't. I still wait for the son's part and then I want to sing it much more than I want to sing the father's part. The father's part is great, you know, you go through, you swim through it and it's fine. You know, he's kind of casual. He's a bit concerned, you know, but you settle down, you know, sit down, just take it easy. Yeah, but yeah, I want to get back to the son thing. There's a way. I know. I've got to go. So I always choose the son's dynamic. Because there are still things to march about, there's still things to shout about, still things to sing about. I think that's the world that we live in that's never going to change.

• 16:42Hrishikesh Hirway?

  Coming up, you'll hear how all of this came together in the final song. This episode is sponsored by Tidal. If you're an artist or if you know somebody making music, you should know about Tidal Upload. It's a way to share and sell music without the usual barriers. You can upload your music directly to Tidal at no cost. You decide how you want to release it. You can share it publicly with Tidal listeners, or you can keep it private until you're ready. Or you can sell your music directly through Tidal Upload. Your music will also be considered by Tidal's editorial team for their playlists. And if your track is selected for their spotlight program, you'll get $1,000 bonus and you'll be on one of their marquee playlists. And now, Tidal has dropped its platform fee to 0%,

• 17:25Hrishikesh Hirway?

  which means you keep more of your earnings there than on any other platform. Visit tidal.com/songexploder to create an account and start uploading your music for free. That's tidal.com/songexploder for zero platform fees on every sale. Your music, your earnings.

• 17:47Hrishikesh Hirway?

  And now, here's the 2020 version of "Father and Son" by Yusuf Cat Stevens in its entirety.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  It's not time to make a change Just relax, take it easy You're still young, that's your fault There's so much you have to know Find a girl, settle down If you want, you can marry Look at me, I am old but I'm happy

• 18:55Speaker 02

  I was once like you are now And I know that it's not easy To be calm when you found something going on

• 19:09Speaker 02

  But take your time, think a lot Think of everything you've got For you will still be here tomorrow But your dreams may not

• 19:27Speaker 04

  Oh, how can I try to explain? 'Cause when I do, he turns away again It's always been the same, same old story From the moment I could talk I was ordered to listen Now there's a way And I know that I have to go away I know I have to go

• 20:32Speaker 04

  It's not time to make a change. Just sit down, take it slowly. You're still young, that's your fault. There's so much you have to go through. Find a girl, settle down. If you want, you can marry. Look at me, I am old, but I'm happy.

• 21:00Speaker 04

  Know all the times that I've cried, keeping all the things I knew inside. It's hard, but it's harder to ignore it. If they were right, I'd agree, but it's them they know, not me. Now there's a way, and I know that I have to go away. I know I have to go.

• 21:41Hrishikesh Hirway?

  For more, visit songexploder.net. You'll find links to buy or stream both versions of Father and Son. And you can watch the stop-motion animated video that was made for the new version of the song. This episode of Song Exploder was made by me, Rishi Kesh Hirway, with editing help from Teeny Lieberstein and Casey Deal. Carlos Lerma makes illustrations for each episode, which you can find on the show's website and Instagram. Special thanks to Jessica Powell and the folks at AudioShake for letting me try out their technology. Song Exploder is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a collective of creative, independent podcasts. You can learn more about our shows at radiotopia.fm. If you'd like to support the podcast,

• 22:24Hrishikesh Hirway?

  you can get a Song Exploder t-shirt at songexploder.net/shirt. You can also follow the show on Twitter and Instagram, @songexploder. My name is Rishi Kesh Hirway. Thanks for listening.

• 22:39Hrishikesh Hirway?

  RadioTopia

• 22:42Hrishikesh Hirway?

  From PRX