The Secret Life of Gases & Why We Get Hooked - SYSK Choice

Some very popular drinks can do a surprising amount of damage to your teeth. Which ones are the worst offenders? This episode begins with what certain drinks do to your tooth enamel and some simple ways to minimize the damage if you drink them. https://news.uthscsa.edu/more-u-s-teeth-susceptible-to-silent-enamel-eating-syndrome/ You are surrounded by gases every moment of your life. They fill your lungs, power engines, warm the planet and help create stars—yet gases may be the least understood materials in our world. Mark Miodownik reveals the fascinating and often surprising ways gases shape our lives. He is professor of materials and society at University College London and author of It’s a Gas: The Sublime and Elusive Elements That Expand Our World (https://amzn.to/3XDpcjX). People casually say they’re “addicted” to their phones, shopping, social media or video games. But when does something you enjoy—or simply do a lot—cross the line into addiction? And why are some things so incredibly hard to stop? Psychotherapist Talitha Fosh explains what really makes us get hooked and what it takes to break free. She is author of Hooked: Why We Are Addicted and How to Break Free (https://amzn.to/3XDW8sq). The shoes you wear while driving can actually affect how safely you control the car—and some popular types of footwear are particularly bad choices. So what should you wear, and is driving barefoot really dangerous? Listen as I sort out the best and worst footwear for driving. https://www.rd.com/list/shoes-shouldnt-wear-driving/ PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS TREES. COM: Right now, ⁠https://Trees.com ⁠have great deals on planting essentials, up to half off on select plants. And listeners to our show get 20% OFF their purchase when using the promo code SYSK at checkout. MONARCH: Write your own money story with Monarch! Use promo code SYSK at ⁠⁠https://Monarch.com⁠⁠ to get your 1st year of Monarch Core half off at just $50 VINTED: Ready to clean out your closet and make some extra money? Download the Vinted app for free and start listing! With no seller fees, you keep every dollar you earn and for a limited time, enjoy free shipping in the US on Vinted. WAYFAIR: Ready to upgrade your home for way less? Head to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Wayfair.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ right now to shop all things home and get your space ready for less. QUINCE: Find your next Fall favorites at Quince! Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Quince.com/sysk⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too! DELL: Built for those who want better. The Dell XPS, built for you! INDEED: Get a $75 Sponsored Job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Indeed.com/PODCAST⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Mike Carruthers?

  I thought I had a pretty good idea of where my money was going. And then I started using Monarch. And it turns out, there's a big difference between thinking, you know, and actually seeing it all laid out in front of you. I've spent some time with Monarch now. I've connected everything and really tested it out. And I like it a lot. Your accounts, investments, savings goals, spending, they're all there in one place. But what really got my attention is Monarch doesn't just show you what's happened. It helps you spot what's happening right now. They have an AI weekly recap, and it can flag a spending spike or a change in your net worth or upcoming expenses.

• 0:44Mike Carruthers?

  Things that are surprisingly easy to miss on your own. And I found that once you actually see the numbers, you look at your money differently. If you've ever wondered, where exactly is all my money going? I think you'll find Monarch pretty eye opening. Write your own money story with Monarch. Use code SYSK at monarch.com to get your first year of Monarch Core half off at just $50. That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com with code SYSK.

• 1:22Mike Carruthers?

  Today on Something You Should Know, what the drinks you drink can do to your teeth and what you can do to prevent it. Then the fascinating world of gases. You don't think about gases very much, but you wouldn't be here without them.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  We rely on gases for music. We rely on gases for hearing in general. That's the waves going through gases is what we call sound. We rely on gases to get around pneumatic tires. You know, without them, bikes and cars won't exist.

• 1:52Mike Carruthers?

  Also, the shoes you should and should never wear when you drive. And are we all addicted to something?

• 2:01Speaker 02

  The way I describe addiction is when we use something outside of ourselves to change the way we feel. Social media, shopping, you know, there's obviously the drink, the drugs, but we really can be addicted to anything.

• 2:16Mike Carruthers?

  All this today on Something You Should Know.

• 2:21Mike Carruthers?

  There's probably no better endorsement for a company than this. I keep buying their stuff. That's exactly what's happening with me and Quince. It started with their clothes. I've bought sweaters, polos, pants, jeans, shoes, a belt. And Quince has become one of the first places I look when I need something new to wear. And my wife and son buy from Quince too, all the time. What keeps bringing us back is the quality and the price. Quince uses premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, merino wool. Their cashmere sweaters start at just $60. And with colder weather coming, they have down jackets

• 3:06Mike Carruthers?

  and classic wool outerwear as well. Quince prices everything 50 to 80% less than similar brands by working directly with ethical factories and cutting out the middlemen. And it's not just clothes. They have bedding, bath, kitchen essentials and furniture. We even have Quince pillows. So this isn't one of those endorsements where I try something once because they sent it to me. We shop at Quince, and I absolutely recommend you try it. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them,

• 3:51Mike Carruthers?

  please let them know it was Something You Should Know. It's the best way to support our show.

• 3:58Speaker 03

  Something You Should Know. Fascinating intel, the world's top experts, and practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers.

• 4:10Mike Carruthers?

  Yes, hi, welcome to Something You Should Know. I want to start today by talking about your teeth. Did you know that some of the drinks that you drink can literally erode your teeth, according to a study? Dental erosion is what this is called, and it can be subtle and hard to spot at first. But over time, too much of the wrong beverages erode the enamel, leaving you with thinner teeth, more sensitive, and more vulnerable teeth. Among the biggest dental offenders are soft drinks, fruit and sports drinks, some herbal teas, lime flavored beer and seltzer fruit drinks. All of these drinks are acidic and will eat away at your enamel.

• 4:54Mike Carruthers?

  If you do drink any of these corrosive beverages, you're better off using a straw and be sure not to brush your teeth right after drinking them. That just compounds the problem. You should rinse your mouth with water or a mouthwash to get that stuff off your teeth. And that is something you should know.

• 5:18Mike Carruthers?

  I'm sure you know you have a sense of what a gas is. You probably cook with natural gas. Oxygen is a gas. Carbon dioxide is a gas. Gases are everywhere. We wouldn't be here if it weren't for gases. But there are things about gases you likely never knew that are really interesting and affect you in ways you're about to discover. My guest is Mark Miodownik. He is a professor of materials and society at University College London. He's the author of a book called Stuff Matters, which was a big bestseller. And his latest book is called, It's a Gas: The Sublime and Elusive Elements That Expand Our World. Hi, Mark, welcome to Something You Should Know.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  Hi, thanks for inviting me.

• 6:04Mike Carruthers?

  So I understand, obviously, you find the topic of gases interesting. But why are we talking about it here? Why is it important for people to know and understand more about gases?

• 6:17Speaker 01

  Well, they are our life support system. I mean, that's an obvious, I suppose, so what? Which is that we're breathing oxygen now. And without it, you die very quickly. But it's more than that. They, the emergence of oxygen on this planet was not, is an unusual current. I mean, if you see oxygen on planets out there in the universe, it's a very good sign that there's life. And oxygen itself is intertwined with living organisms. And it's a very reactive molecule. So if you look at the evolution of this planet and how life came to be, oxygen's a big part of that, but not just oxygen, of course, carbon dioxide. So carbon dioxide is the original molecule and still is a very important molecule for all life on the planet.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  And of course, you know, plants breathe it and many bacteria breathe it. And so, you know, we've got this dance with the stuff that we breathe. And we live at the bottom of 100 kilometers of atmosphere. So we're in a way, we're at the bottom of a sea of gas. You know, you can think of us as little scuttling creatures. Above us is the ocean of gas. And that weighs down on us, actually. It has a weight, 100 K of gas, even though it's so light, you can't really feel it with your fingers. It has a weight, and that weight is called the atmospheric pressure. And that really affects the weather. So you've got life itself, you've got the weather. And then, then you just go into this whole world of gases

• 7:45Speaker 01

  that without which we would not have any of the technology we have today. So we rely on gases for music. We rely on gases for hearing in general, of course. That's the waves going through gases is what we call sound. We rely on gases to get around pneumatic tires. You know, without them, you know, bikes and cars won't exist. We, of course, the gas technology of gasoline. And of course, there's jet engines. Go into a hospital, you'll find loads of gases there. Go into any scientific lab, we wouldn't be able to do our work without gases. And we wouldn't be able to do our work without vacuums, getting rid of gases. All the silicon chips in the world, pretty much all the kind of advanced technology relies on getting rid of gases during manufacture

• 8:29Speaker 01

  and having very, very pure vacuums. So yeah, they're interesting.

• 8:35Mike Carruthers?

  Well, but you mentioned gasoline. Now gasoline is a liquid in my world, and yet it's called gas-oleen. So explain that.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  Well, there you go, because, you know, we pump it as a liquid. And actually, one of the, one of the great things about it is that it has a high vapor pressure. So, and what does that mean in vapor? Well, vapor is when you get the molecules of the liquid becoming, going into the gas form at a normal temperature, our temperature. And they, and they, and they do it very readily. And, and so when you take the vapor of the gasoline from your fuel tank and you mix it with oxygen through the carburetor, that is the thing that gets put into the cylinder of the engine. And it's the gas form, the vapor form, that's doing all the work. It would, it doesn't work when it's liquid in that phase.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  In fact, you can, you can throw a match into a liquid gasoline and it won't ignite. It's only the vapor that ignites. And in fact, flames and candles, and they're all gas technologies. You know, if you see a flame or you see a fire, you're looking at a gas.

• 9:42Mike Carruthers?

  You just said that if I throw a match into a liquid bowl of gasoline, it will not ignite?

• 9:50Speaker 01

  No, it'll go out. Yeah, you need, you need a mixture of oxygen and the vapor of gasoline. That mixture is what will ignite. Because what is ignition? What is an explosion? What is fire? It's, it's not, it's not just the molecule, in this case gasoline. So it's a hydrocarbon, a sort of small hydrocarbon. It's basically a molecule with lots of carbons and hydrogen, you know, kind of attached to it. It's, it's that reacting with oxygen. So for a long time in the history of the world, people didn't understand what a flame was. They thought it was actually a type of matter. And in fact, go back to the ancients and they thought that, you know, there were, the elements were earth, you know, air, fire and water, and fire being an element.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  We now know that fire is a combustion. It's the reaction of oxygen with a vapor or with a gas. And, and so that's, that's what you have to get. And that's, that's why the hydrogen balloons that became the Zeplins, the first airline that ever existed was a hydrogen balloon going from Germany to France and then across the Atlantic to America. That was the first airline. That's in the, in the, in the early 20th century, late 19th century. It's, it's an enormous balloon full of hydrogen. You'd think it was the most dangerous thing in the world. But because there's only hydrogen in there, it's not going to explode. It's only when it mixes with the air under certain proportions, and then you get a spark, that's when it becomes dangerous.

• 11:16Mike Carruthers?

  But the liquid, wait, but but you hear about, for example, in a fire, gas tanks exploding. That's liquid gasoline blowing up. That's combusting. It's not a vapor. It's a liquid.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  Well, the liquid becomes a gas. The liquid itself isn't going to explode. It has to mix with oxygen and then that has to encounter a high temperature, a spark. If it doesn't do that, it won't explode. And that's what an explosion is, by the way. An explosion is the formation of a lot of gas, like an enormous amount of gas in a very short space of time. So if you, in a millisecond, you go from having a liquid to having something a thousand times bigger than that, which is what gases tend to be. They tend to be a thousand times less dense than their liquid. So you go from something the size of a bottle to something the size of a room in terms of the volume of that material in a millisecond. That's an explosion. So explosions are the production of a large amount of gas.

• 12:14Mike Carruthers?

  So living creatures, like human beings, all living creatures create gases, right? Sometimes in embarrassing ways, but we create our own gas.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. That's the beauty of this topic, isn't it?

• 12:28Mike Carruthers?

  No.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  Because it's so human.

• 12:29Mike Carruthers?

  Not really.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  You know, like you can't write a book about gas without having odors and smells. You know, these are all the gases that are also like I encounter in the book. And, and, you know, they're all part of our lives and they're all either funny or, you know, crazy or weird or, but they are a big part of our emotional life. And I think that's one of the things I really wanted to make the point. Gases as a subject is not just about technology. It's not just about science. It's about very, it's very much about the senses. First of all, most gases don't smell. Most gases are invisible. Most gases you can't taste, smell, see or touch. And that's an incredible thought because they're so important to us.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  For instance, methane, methane is invisible and odorless, right? It's not methane you're smelling. And in fact, if you're wondering why you can smell gas coming out of, you know, a gas leak, it's not because methane has a smell. It's because they intentionally put in a garlic smelling odor into the methane supply in order that we can all detect the smells, the leaks of gases.

• 13:39Mike Carruthers?

  And so, so the gas in my gas stove is a gas. Is, can you make that? Or is it all natural? Because it's called natural gas. But is it all natural or can you manufacture it?

• 13:52Speaker 01

  You can manufacture it. There's a huge amount of manufacture of methane. So methane is the smallest hydrogen carbon. So it's got one carbon and four hydrogens. And it's, it's very related to gasoline. It's much smaller than the molecules in gasoline. So it, because it's smaller, it just has a higher boiling point. And so it's at a room temperature, at normal temperature, it's a gas. And, and so you pump it through pipes and you can either make it, you can make it from, you know, oil and gasoline, but it is naturally occurring. So that's why they call it natural gas in the same way the oil is naturally occurring. So they occur together generally, and that's the gas form. It sits above the oil. You, in the old days, before that happened, because methane has a really interesting history

• 14:35Speaker 01

  in terms of the, of use, because it wasn't used for heating first. It was used for lighting and it was used as a form called, you know, coal gas. So they were getting wood and coal and heating it up. And that, and it breaks down, the carbon and molecules break down and they have hydrogen there and it gives off a gas and that is methane. But it also gives off hydrogen and that was being pumped around the cities of London and Paris in the early 1800s as the first gas lighting, as the first light, city lighting. Before that, you know, all these big cities and towns and villages were dark at night and they were very dangerous places and especially London. You know, there's so much history of people getting killed and raped and assaulted and robbed.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  And it all happened at night in small alleyways in the dark. And, and the citizens of London were absolutely desperate for lighting so they can inhabit this wonderful city at night and not, and not be, and not be mugged. And, and it was methane piped through the, through, through the streets, onto lamp posts that provided that light. And it's only much later that we started using it as a form of heating and as a form of cooking.

• 15:45Mike Carruthers?

  And now today, there's talk of banning gas cooking. So I want to ask you about that. I'm speaking with Mark Mio-Dovnik. He is author of the book, It's a Gas: The Sublime and Elusive Elements That Expand Our World. A big thank you to today's sponsor, Vinted. I think most of us have what I call someday clothes. I'll wear that someday. That'll fit better someday. Someday I'll have a place to wear that. Meanwhile, it's been hanging in the closet for three years. Vinted offers another possibility. Sell it. Every day, people can sell clothes they're no longer wearing and make some extra money. And they've made the process pretty painless.

• 16:30Mike Carruthers?

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• 17:17Speaker 04

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• 17:46Mike Carruthers?

  So Mark, help me understand this whole thing about banning gas stoves. I've heard a lot about that lately and there are a lot of people who are upset about the idea of banning gas stoves because gas is the preferred cooking method for a lot of people. So why is there a push to ban gas stoves?

• 18:08Speaker 01

  So, so coming back to what the flame is, you see that blue flame when it's mixing with oxygen. So it needs to mix with oxygen and you get that blue flame. But, but every single methane molecule coming out of the tap is not combusting with an oxygen. So there's always a small proportion that are not doing it. And they're becoming other stuff. They're becoming things like carbon monoxide. So, and that's a very poisonous gas. Or they become small soot particles which, which circulate and, and you inhale. And, and there's all sorts of, you know, different nitrogen molecules that, that happen at high temperatures. And so you start inhaling, if you're indoors and you're cooking by your gas stove, you're inhaling these.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  And, you know, I think until recently, we didn't think it was a very big risk until we had smart meters that could measure air quality. No one was really thinking about it. But you put an air, an air monitor that you use for, to measure the street quality of the air and you put it next to your stove and, and the red light will go off. Alarm. It's the worst quality air you can breathe. So that's, that's why people are starting. I think we've just sort of lowered or increased, is that the right word? We've increased our desire for lower risk in our lives, right? We don't want to be polluted by, by the technology we cook with or light or, or drive around in. You know, all these, all these technologies are now under pressure because they have these side effects.

• 19:32Mike Carruthers?

  Well, that's really interesting because I think I grew up believing, because I think the industry told us that gas was a very clean burning fuel, that you were, unlike other things, it, it all burned and so it all disappeared and you were good to go.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's all relative, isn't it? So it's it's clean compared to what? So it's it's not clean compared to an electric hob, right? You you're having, if you if you take the same meter, we do it in my kitchen because we got rid of our gas hob for this reason. And and now the meter is green in our kitchen when we cook because we've changed our ways. But if you compare that to a coal or wood, yeah, I mean, it's ma- far better. I mean, the amount of, I mean, wood fires are terrible in terms of pollution. And also, the other thing, and this is a is a key gas point, is that the harmful things in it is are all invisible. The nitrous oxides are invisible. You know, the little carbon soot particles are invisible, the carbon monoxide is invisible. I mean, that's a really deadly killer.

• 20:34Mike Carruthers?

  Well, since you since you swapped out your gas stove because of this, do you know? Because I think people will think, well, it's OK because I turn the fan on above the stove, so I'm good.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's definitely a good idea. But where does that fan go? Um, in our, like, I've looked at a lot of those fans and they, some of them are really literally just um go through a filter paper and then they recirculate it in the room. And that filter paper is not going to absorb those molecules. It'll absorb the little droplets of oil from your pan, which is the other thing it's catching. Yeah, so so unless the unless the fan is is is basically taking that air and venting it to the outside, you're you're not doing yourself any favors.

• 21:15Mike Carruthers?

  So what is a gas that we haven't talked about yet that you think is really interesting and we should talk about?

• 21:22Speaker 01

  The one we haven't mentioned, that's that's the that's the big one, which started the whole industrial revolution of, is steam. And and really, the steam story is so fascinating. I couldn't do justice to how incredible it is because you just have to write a whole book on it. But steam is this moment in history where we're trying, you know, there's loads of inventors out there who understand that if you can make a machine that can do the work of a horse, or you you can make a machine that can, you know, you put energy in and it'll pump things or rotate things, that that you that you're going to change everything. But no one could get one to work. And then seventeenth, eighteenth century, little inventors in Britain and in and in France,

• 22:04Speaker 01

  because it's where, you know, a lot of the work is being done, um, suddenly crack it. And and you get this early, very clunky steam engines that are just pumping water out of mines. And the reason why pumping water out of mines is important is because these are very deep lot holes, which where we're mining coal, we've cut all the wood, we've cut all the trees down. We need, so we need wood for cooking and for heating. So we're starting to burn coal, you've got to get coal, you've got to make a mine. But if you live in Britain, they fill up with water because it rains a lot. So they have to pump the water out of mines, they're doing it with horses. Then they found, actually, you you can make a steam engine do it if you make this gas. You create this gas by just heating up water, it pushes a piston. Well, actually, it doesn't, it sucks a piston because of atmospheric pressure.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  And this is this is the big discovery, is that you turn it from a gas to a liquid by cooling it. That creates a vacuum, that sucks the piston down, and then you push gas back in. That's the condensing steam engine. And and then, oh, my God, then they suddenly realized, whoa, we can just do much more than a pumping. We can, we can start to go places. And the thirst for a car, a steam car, happens in the eighteenth century. It takes a hundred years to make one, and along the way, they find out something else. Actually, the best way to use steam for transport is not a car. That's really difficult because it's got, it's a big engine, it's very heavy, and the roads are bad, and you can never get it to work, and it's taken them so long. But what worked was go on water, because water can take the weight, doesn't make any difference.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  And there's a big advantage to be able to go against the wind with steam. And so you get you get mass travel. Then suddenly, people are going across the Atlantic, from London to New York, from Paris to, and and it opens up the population's idea of what it is to be human. You can travel the world and and of course, get mass migration into America notably. And um, this changes the whole trajectory of America, you know, like, all these people coming from Europe. But but then, then the railways are born. And so then you get onto solid ground, and it turns out, not you don't want a car, you actually want a railway, because the iron rails can take the weight of these massive engines. And it's much, much later than the car comes along.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  And by the time the steam car is born and can really do it, they got the technology down, gasoline comes along, and the internal combustion engine blows it out of the water. And it and steam disappears. But it's such a shame because it basically for a hundred years was preeminent. And if you think, well, oh, God, I love steam, and and it's true. I think if I, you know, there is something about a steam engine that is, that really delights the engineer in me, and I think everyone, it's got a very human quality to it, the steam engine. It's it huffs and puffs and, you know, like us, you know, it emits things. It seems to have emotion. So, you know, yeah, I I I think steam is is definitely one that we should never forget.

• 24:51Mike Carruthers?

  I was surprised to learn that nitrogen is so important, and and it's a pretty interesting story, so tell that.

• 24:58Speaker 01

  So half the people on the planet alive today owe their lives to a gas that's in the air. It's called nitrogen. So you breathe it in every breath, but it's only the oxygen that you're taking, the nitrogen you breathe out again. But we need nitrogen because, look, DNA, like proteins, you know, it's all made of carbon, hydrogen, and nitrogen, right? So we need nitrogen, all life needs nitrogen. So where do we get it from? We don't get it from the air, we don't breathe, we don't metabolize it by breathing it in. There are only very few organisms that can actually do that, and they're these sort of bacteria that exist in the soil. And all our nitrogen comes from them metabolizing it, dying and being, you know, um, made into plants,

• 25:42Speaker 01

  plants being eaten by us or by animals, and that's how we get our nitrogen. Now, basically, once you've used up your nitrogen from the land like that, you you start to starve. You know, this is a problem for all high-density populations because they end up basically exhausting the the nitrogen in the land. And it was recognized in the eighteenth, seventeenth and eighteenth century as a real problem. And they started using bird poo from places like Peru and Chile, like digging it from these very dry places and shipping it across the world. And and when that ran out, they started mining the small areas of the world where there's some mineral, nitrate minerals. But again, they run out. And there was a guy, a German, who basically worked out a way of taking nitrogen from the air

• 26:24Speaker 01

  using a chemical reaction, very, very dangerous one, and making it into fertilizer. And his achievement, he's a very chequered figure, and in fact, he's also the father of chemical warfare. So, you know, World War One, you know, he's a, but now today, you know, that process of making fertilizer from the air um, is, you know, it it's put on all the, almost all the agricultural land. The only stuff it's not put on is organic farming. And without it, I mean, the the latest calculations are that half the population of the world would not be able to live. Like, we would not have enough food without that, that one discovery.

• 27:04Mike Carruthers?

  OK, well, now now I understand why you study this and why you write about it and want to talk about it. Because there's a lot to learn. And what you said about natural gas stoves and why you switched yours out is certainly something for people to consider. Mark Mio-Dovnick has been my guest, and he is a professor of materials and society at the University College in London and author of the book, It's a Gas: The Sublime and Elusive Elements That Expand Our World. And there's a link to that book at Amazon in the show notes. Great to have you on, Mark.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Thanks, yeah, thanks very much.

• 27:40Speaker 04

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• 28:10Speaker 05

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  What about you? I'm single. I might be ready to mingle. Of course, I'm getting more action than Chloe. You think I walk around with this smile on my face for nothing? Oh, my God.

• 28:35Speaker 05

  All episodes of season eight are now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

• 28:43Mike Carruthers?

  Can you really be addicted to social media? Or shopping? Or playing online games? Or even can you be addicted to your work? I mean, these are things that consume a lot of your time. They're often hard to stop doing. And you do them for not always the best of reasons. Sure, there are addictions to drugs and alcohol. Those are true addictions. But are these other things really addictions? Or are they just a way to pass the time? And are hard to stop? That's what Talitha Fosh is here to talk about. Talitha is a psychotherapist who works primarily with addiction. And she is author of a book called Hooked. Why we are addicted and how to break free.

• 29:29Mike Carruthers?

  Hi, Talitha. Welcome to Something You Should Know.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  Thank you so much for having me.

• 29:34Mike Carruthers?

  So let's start with what an addiction is. Because I think of an addiction like drugs, alcohol, nicotine. These are things that your body really like needs. And it's hard to break free. Whereas, you know, the social media or shopping? Or spending too much time at work? I they don't feel like addictions to me. They just feel like ways to avoid doing something else. And maybe you're getting some something out of it. But it's not a true addiction. So help help untangle this.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  Well, I think that in today's society, there are so many things that we can get a hit out of. You know, any kind of high. The way I describe addiction is is that we when we use something outside of ourselves to change the way we feel. And so if we're looking at it from that perspective, it can really be. We can really use anything to change the way we feel. So social media, shopping. You know, there's obviously the drink, the drugs. But there is, you know, even there is this doctor called Dr. Lemka, who talks about the fact that she was addicted to romance novels.

• 30:47Speaker 02

  And she she realized that she was addicted to them because in between her patients, she would pick up her romance novels as a way to distract herself.

• 30:55Speaker 02

  Because she was, you know, having uncomfortable feelings. So if we look at it in that lens, we really can be addicted to anything. You know, video games is another one.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  Because all these things that we have that are so accessible to us, they all change the way that we feel essentially.

• 31:14Mike Carruthers?

  So I wonder where, though, is the line? Like, my son plays video games. He loves to play video games. But he can stop and, you know, we'll go do some. I mean, it doesn't seem like an addiction. But but maybe if I left him alone, he'd play all day. But but he doesn't.

• 31:33Speaker 02

  So the way, I mean, because obviously, you know, it's important that we have things that we use to sort of take our mind off stuff. You know, if we've had a hard day, you know, playing a video game isn't isn't a bad thing. It becomes a problem when it makes our lives unmanageable. So when we're unable to do the other things in our life that we like to do because we're stuck playing video games. And video games is a great example. Because, you know, obviously, it's increasing in popularity. And it's one that is sort of acceptable. Oh, I'm just going to play my video games. But actually, if you're not careful, you slowly realize, OK, I'm going to choose.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  I choose to play my video game rather than going and seeing my friends. And then I choose it again and again. And before I know it, I've become very isolated. Or I don't manage to get my homework in on time because I'm playing my video games. It's those kind of unmanageabilities that with what we call behavioral addictions is is much harder to see at the beginning. Because obviously, with drink and drugs, when your life becomes unmanageable, you know, it's quite obvious, you know, because you're drunk or you're high. But with behavioral addictions like social media or gaming, as you say, they're, you know, the problems can start off a bit more subtle.

• 32:54Speaker 02

  And I guess also, if if you think about if it's causing problems and you're still doing it anyway, then obviously, it's also become a problem.

• 33:03Mike Carruthers?

  Yeah, I like that definition. If it's causing a problem and you're still doing it anyway, then you got a problem.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, if if it's destructive and you know that it's wasting your time or causing you pain and causing other members of your family and friends pain. Then I'd say definitely, you know, it's making your life unmanageable and that it's probably a problem.

• 33:28Mike Carruthers?

  But it does seem that there is a difference between physical addictions like drug and alcohol, where if you do stop, there are physical symptoms. You go into withdrawal and it's really horrible. Versus if you stop playing video games, pretty soon you kind of forget about them and you go off and play baseball or whatever you do. That it that those are very different.

• 33:50Speaker 02

  Absolutely. I mean, obviously, with the with the drugs and alcohol, there's a chemical addition, you know, in our brain chemistry that's being altered. And so when you stop that, you do go into a much more severe withdrawal. However, when we are engaging with any type of behavioral addiction, we are also releasing dopamine. Now, that dopamine is obviously going to be less from the behavioral addiction than what when than what we are getting from if we're using drugs and alcohol. But pain and pleasure come from the same part of the brain.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  So every single time that we get a hit of dopamine or every single time that we get pleasure from something, at some point, we will get. We will experience pain, which is what, you know, we've called a withdrawal. Now, as you say, these levels will vary. But in order for the brain to get back to what's called homeostasis, which is this sort of level playing field, this kind of. Yeah, equilibrium. We will at some point experience pain. I mean, I think about using social media, for example. And I have clients who do this where, you know, you get stuck scrolling. And even though you don't want to be scrolling, you keep scrolling.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  And it's really hard to pull yourself away from your from your phone, from the scrolling, even though it's way past your bedtime. And you don't really want to be doing it anymore. You feel like you you can't. And actually, to pull yourself away from to pull yourself away from it can feel like a bit, you know, you can experience sort of apathy or you can experience a bit of a low. And that is usually because you've released all this dopamine with the constant swipe or the constant scrolling. And then eventually, you know, you will have to feel that kind of, oh, God, that withdrawal in order for your brain to level out. Now, sort of, there's not a timeframe as to how long it takes for your brain to kind of come back to homeostasis.

• 35:53Speaker 02

  But a lot of people say, I mean, obviously, with alcohol and drugs, it's abstaining for good. But with behavioral addictions, it's about 30 days for your brain to come back to that homeostasis, for your brain to come back to that level playing field. So 30 days without gaming, 30 days without your phone.

• 36:12Speaker 02

  But in that time, it's a very interesting experiment if you think that you have that you are addicted to something or that you use something a little bit too much to try and abstain for it from for 30 days and see what happens.

• 36:26Mike Carruthers?

  And is that the prescription? If you have a behavior that's causing you trouble, the best thing to do is just stop cold turkey?

• 36:34Speaker 02

  Yes, I mean, obviously, drugs and alcohol is very different. And I have to sort of obviously disclaimer if you are sort of thinking of abstaining from that and you need to seek medical advice if you've been using it for a long time. But I'd say, I mean, yes, let's say a broad prescription would be to stop for 30 days so that you're able to notice as well. When when you stop something, you're really able to notice why you might be doing it or what feelings that you might be experiencing that might be causing you to do it in the first place. Because if if we sort of go back to the definition of addiction that we're using something to change the way we feel, we need to know what's going on underneath. And 30 days is a good is a very good time to start with.

• 37:20Speaker 02

  I mean, I would always say probably a bit longer, but brain chemically, I'd say that start with 30 days and see how you go. And actually, if I think about the example from from this doctor that I was talking about, who who was addicted to romance novels. She started reading before, after she had given birth, she started reading these romance novels to help her kind of go to sleep. They sort of soothed her. And then she before she knew it, she was taking them into work and reading them every 10 minutes she had in between patients. And I think the the the question was, oh, gosh, she she eventually took time away from these books. She had, I think, thirty days or something. So she was able to figure

• 38:02Speaker 02

  out, okay, what else is going on underneath? Okay, I'm struggling with being a mom, or I'm, you know, struggling with all my hormones and feelings. But the only way she was going to figure that out was if she took time away from these books. And eventually, that's not to say that she I'm sure she's reading books again. She could it's not that she can never read them again. But it's a very good sign of perhaps what might be going on underneath and something to explore.

• 38:29Mike Carruthers?

  So I often I often wonder, well, first, what I wonder is, are people scrolling on their phone and playing video games because it makes them feel good, or it prevents them from feeling bad about something else? And and the second part of that question is, and if they stopped and thought about it, do you think most people would know the difference?

• 38:50Speaker 02

  That's a very good question. And I think it's probably a bit of both with lack of awareness, if that makes sense. So we start doing something because it makes us feel good. And then we continue doing that thing because it probably makes feel good, but it also distracts us from, you know, other things that are going on in our life. I mean, if if I use myself as as an example, because, you know, the reason I started working with addiction is because I'm an addict myself, and I'm coming up to ten years clean. And for me, it started off with with food, you know, changing my food, restricting my food.

• 39:31Speaker 02

  And it made me feel good initially to do that. But the reason I carried on restricting my food was because I then realized, oh, this gives me a sense of feeling in control. This is distracting me from other areas of my life that are perhaps difficult at the moment. And then, at one point, you know, it takes over and it becomes, you know, very difficult to then stop. But I think it's probably a mixture of the two.

• 39:56Mike Carruthers?

  Something I think people wonder, I wonder about this sometimes, because, you know, I will sometimes be in bed, maybe starting to scroll through social media. And I know I should go to sleep, but I kind of can't stop. But it doesn't happen very often. But when it does happen, I think, God, do I have a problem here? And then when I put it down, it's fine. It's like, well, why didn't I stop twenty minutes ago? You know, nothing, nothing great happened in the last twenty minutes. I should have stopped a long time ago. It's very occasional. But but then you think, well, gee, that mean this, what's going on here?

• 40:33Speaker 02

  Well, it's it's a good exercise when that happens, because I usually find this for myself. You know, there are times where I can, you know, be on social media for I can pick up TikTok, for example, or Instagram, and have no intention of being on it, but be on it for a couple of hours and then think, oh, my God, that's not what I wanted to do, you know, that's not that hasn't been a very successful evening, you know, I had plans, right? What I what I usually then ask myself, and I'll ask clients to ask themselves is what what went on that day, you know, was there something that's been going on that day, that week, that you needed to numb from, you know, it might not be anything

• 41:13Speaker 02

  in particular, but you might, you know, we are so automatic to pick up our phones anyway, that sometimes we don't, you know, sometimes there might be no reason, but sometimes it might be like, okay, we needed to numb ourselves a little bit more today, because we're feeling a little bit stressed about work, or sometimes, if anything, it's, oh, I'm feeling a little bit more tired, ironically, because we're still on our phones. But it really helps. I mean, I'm not sure if you've experienced this, but it really numbs us out, you know, when we're when we're swiping and, you know, scrolling on our phone, we're really not thinking about anything else. It's just these constant bits of content that are giving

• 41:54Speaker 02

  that hit of dopamine, especially on TikTok now, these this this short, sharp bursts of content are designed to get us experiencing more and more dopamine. So it's very difficult for us to take ourselves away from it, to pull ourselves away from it. But if you find that there's a time or, you know, one evening, it's harder than another evening, it's worth figuring out, okay, or with asking yourself, is there any, is am I more, am I more tired today? Am I more stressed about something? Do I need to talk about anything? Do I need to express anything? Those kind of things can help us because, you know, there is sometimes no reason as to why, as to why that happens.

• 42:36Mike Carruthers?

  When it when it does happen, when it does seem like it's more than just an occasional thing, when it does seem like you're asking yourself, do I have a problem with this? Abstaining is it isn't a matter of trying to cut back. It's kind of like, it kind of reminds me of like, you know, cigarette smokers trying to smoke fewer cigarettes. It's just, yeah, that doesn't really work that well.

• 42:58Speaker 02

  Unfortunately, with, as I said, with sort of with alcohol, drugs, and cigarettes, abstaining is really the only way forward, abstaining completely, because as soon as you've had a sip of alcohol, or any kind of or a toke of a cigarette, you've you've activated that addiction again, and it's very unsafe, you know. So that within, if we're talking about chemicals, drugs, and alcohol, nicotine, to abstain for good is obviously the only way into recovery. It's a little bit more sort of, there's a bit more of a gray area with behavioral addictions, because, you know, we have to be on our laptops

• 43:39Speaker 02

  to email, we have to, you know, a lot of, we have smartphones are everywhere. So it's about sort of starting for, I'd say, to start for thirty days. But also, there are other things that you can do to help minimize the kind of exposure you're getting to the behavior. So for example, you know, if you are addicted to smartphone, I had a client who was addicted to smartphones, and all the apps and everything, you know, being very activating and triggering all the time, to getting an old school flip phone, you know, one that doesn't have all the thousands of apps on it, that that can be a really good way, you know, with like food disorders as well, you know, we have to eat, it's not black and white. So it's

• 44:24Speaker 02

  about, okay, how can we come up with a program, like a plan, like an abstinence plan, it's called, to put in place something that you stick to, that you don't like, basically boundaries with yourself that you stick to with the health, with the help of a therapist, or the help of a rehab, or whatever, that you don't break, so that you have an abstinence plan that makes you that makes you feel safe and keeps you staying away from engaging in any addictive patterns, basically, or destructive behaviors. But if if you don't feel that your your life's that unmanageable, but you'd like to try, you know, abstaining for thirty days, definitely a good, a very good place to start. And just to notice, you

• 45:07Speaker 02

  know, notice what happens, how you feel, notice the cravings, because you'll get cravings. I mean, I certainly notice when I put my phone down, if I'm like, okay, no more phone for the rest of the day, I will notice myself trying to look for my phone automatically, you know, it's like, where's it gone?

• 45:24Mike Carruthers?

  Is there any sense, or do you know, or do you have a feeling, since you talk to people who suffer with this, that if if you have one, you probably have more than one of these kinds of addictions?

• 45:36Speaker 02

  I believe that if you suffer with some form of addiction, whatever it is, then it will most likely pop up in other areas of your life. I mean, that was certainly my experience. And with most of the, in fact, I think it's safe for me to say, all of my clients that I work with, who suffer with addiction of whatever kind, once they put one addiction down, another one will pop up. They can be less severe. So, for example, putting down alcohol, you know, your addiction to alcohol, and suddenly becoming addicted to exercise. Obviously, the addiction to exercise is much less harmful than the addiction to alcohol.

• 46:18Mike Carruthers?

  Any idea why some people have no problem, and others do? Why some people don't fall victim to, they can play video games and stop on a dime and say, sure, yeah, I'll stop, that's not a problem, and other people cannot?

• 46:34Speaker 02

  It's a great question. For me, it always comes down to nature versus nurture. There is proof and research to show that it can be genetic. So with alcohol, for example, there are different genes that can make you more susceptible to being an alcoholic. So that's definitely part of it. And if, you know, people call it an addictive personality, if that runs in your family, then of course, you're much more likely to to fall victim to that. The other part of it is the nurture element to it. And this is all really about childhood, and growing up, and how your needs were or were not met. Because, you know, between the ages of eight and twelve, most specifically, we're developing our sense

• 47:19Speaker 02

  of self, who we are, what we like, what we don't like, how we interact with our peers. And at that point, if our emotional and physical needs are not met, we make it mean something about ourselves. We think we're not good enough, we don't believe we're lovable, and we develop these negative belief systems about ourself. And what I've seen so many times is that these things happen, you know, our emotional needs aren't met when we're younger, or physical needs. And then as you grow older, you take these negative belief systems with you. And then, you know, we're then not going to behave in ways that are kind to ourselves, or that are loving, we're gonna, we end up behaving in very self destructive ways because of these negative belief systems that we carry. If I give a very, a simple

• 48:02Speaker 02

  example, if you're upset about something as a kid, and you go to your parent or caregiver and say, you know, let's say someone was mean to you at school, so and so said this to me at school, and I'm really upset about it. And a parent or caregiver says, oh, well, don't be silly, you shouldn't feel like that. That is an emotional need not being met. The child needs to be validated in some level, on some level, and feels very confused by the fact they're being told not to feel a certain way. And we internalize that, and we think, oh, my God, there must be something wrong with me, what's wrong with me, I'm unlovable, etc., etc. And these things do stay with us, these negative belief systems, unless they are challenged later on down the line.

• 48:43Mike Carruthers?

  Well, I still wonder if scrolling on Facebook or shopping is really an addiction, or it's just something to distract yourself so you don't feel bad about something else, or, you know, and as you say, it is a sliding scale, but well, it's a it's a lot to think about. Talitha Fosh has been my guest. She is a psychotherapist, and the name of her book is Hooked, Why We Are Addicted and How to Break Free. And there's a link to that book in the show notes. Thanks, Talitha. Thanks for coming on.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  Oh, great. Thank you so much.

• 49:20Mike Carruthers?

  The type of shoes you wear when you're driving really can make a difference. And there are several types of shoes you really probably want to stay away from. Probably the worst type of shoes to drive in are flip flops, or really any kind of sandal, because they have the potential to just come right off your foot. And then the flip flop or the sandal can get stuck under the pedal and that can cause all kinds of problems. Thick soled shoes aren't so good either. Thin soled shoes keep your feet as close to the pedals as possible, making them better suited to helping your feet gauge the proper amount of force needed to work the pedals.

• 50:00Mike Carruthers?

  When you drive with thick soled shoes like wedges, platform shoes, or even heavy boots, it could cause you to miss a pedal, or press two pedals at the same time, or use the wrong amount of pressure. High heels are kind of a nightmare too, and considering how cumbersome high heels are to walk in, it probably comes as no surprise that they're not very good to drive in either. When you're wearing high heels, you only make contact with the floor at a very tiny point, a very small surface area, which means the shoe could slip. Plus, high heels force you to position your feet in unfamiliar positions, and the shape of the shoe can make it also difficult to apply the necessary pressure.

• 50:44Mike Carruthers?

  Well, so you might be tempted to drive with no shoes, but when you're used to driving with shoes, driving without them can feel foreign, and that's not what you want when you're driving. Barefoot driving requires you to put more pressure on the pedals than you usually do when you're wearing shoes. So what should you wear? Well, ideally, something like sneakers, or flats, or loafers, those are the best shoes to drive in. And that is something you should know. You know, every new listener we get is so important, and you can help us by sharing this podcast with someone you know by just using the little share button on the platform you're listening to this on right now. I'm Mike Carruthers, thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know.

• 51:29Speaker 04

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• 51:59Speaker 05

  The Hulu original series, The Kardashians, is back.

• 52:02Speaker 06

  Season eight, isn't it great?

• 52:04Speaker 04

  This year has been insane. Have you dated anyone privately? Let me just say this.

• 52:10Speaker 06

  I can't control myself. What about you? I'm single. I might be ready to mingle. Of course, I'm getting more action than glowy. You think I walk around with this smile on my face for nothing?

• 52:22Speaker 05

  Oh my God. All episodes of season eight are now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.