SYSK TRENDING - How the Negativity Effect Rules Us

Someone says nine wonderful things about you and one negative thing. Which one are you still thinking about hours later? Probably the negative one. Bad experiences, criticism and unpleasant news seem to have more power over us than equally good things. And it turns out there is a reason for that. Psychologists call it the negativity effect — our tendency to give more weight and attention to what goes wrong than to what goes right. It influences what we remember, the risks we take, the decisions we make and even how we judge other people. We will often work harder to avoid something bad than we will to gain something equally good. John Tierney has researched this phenomenon and explains why negativity has such a powerful hold on us — and, more importantly, what we can do about it. John is a journalist and co-author of The Power of Bad: How the Negativity Effect Rules Us and How We Can Rule It (https://amzn.to/30Gn3EQ). Listen as he reveals how the negativity effect shows up in relationships, work, parenting and everyday decisions — and how understanding it can keep the bad from overpowering all the good. PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS MONARCH: Write your own money story with Monarch! Use promo code SYSK at ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Monarch.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ to get your 1st year of Monarch Core half off at just $50 TREES. COM: Right now, ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Trees.com ⁠⁠⁠⁠have great deals on planting essentials, up to half off on select plants. And listeners to our show get 20% OFF their purchase when using the promo code SYSK at checkout. VINTED: Ready to clean out your closet and make some extra money? Download the Vinted app for free and start listing! With no seller fees, you keep every dollar you earn and for a limited time, enjoy free shipping in the US on Vinted. WAYFAIR: Ready to upgrade your home for way less? Head to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Wayfair.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ right now to shop all things home and get your space ready for less. QUINCE: Find your next Fall favorites at Quince! Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Quince.com/sysk⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too! DELL: Built for those who want better. The Dell XPS, built for you! PLANET VISIONARIES: In partnership with The Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative, this is Planet Visionaries. Listen or watch wherever you get your podcasts! KA'CHAVA: Ka’Chava’s new Salted Caramel is the perfect balance of mouthwatering flavor and benefits. Embrace your salty side. Go to ⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code SYSK to get 15% off your first order! INDEED: Get a $75 Sponsored Job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Indeed.com/PODCAST⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Mike Carruthers?

  I thought I had a pretty good idea of where my money was going. And then I started using Monarch. And it turns out, there's a big difference between thinking, you know, and actually seeing it all laid out in front of you. I've spent some time with Monarch now. I've connected everything and really tested it out. And I like it a lot. Your accounts, investments, savings goals, spending, they're all there in one place. But what really got my attention is Monarch doesn't just show you what's happened. It helps you spot what's happening right now. They have an AI weekly recap, and it can flag a spending spike or a change in your net worth or upcoming expenses,

• 0:44Mike Carruthers?

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• 1:22Mike Carruthers?

  Suppose 10 people tell you how great you look today. And one person says, you look tired. Which comment are you going to remember tonight? Probably the bad one. There's actually a reason for that. It's called the negativity effect. Our tendency to give bad experiences, bad news and criticism more weight than equally positive things. And it can influence everything from your relationships and career to what you buy, what you worry about, and how you see the world. That's why today's SYSK trending topic is how the negativity effect rules us. So why does your brain seem so determined to focus on what's wrong? John Tierney is a science journalist.

• 2:06Mike Carruthers?

  And in my conversation with him, he explains why bad is so powerful and how understanding that can help you keep negativity from running your life. And we'll be back with that insight right after this.

• 2:21Mike Carruthers?

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• 3:05Mike Carruthers?

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• 3:49Mike Carruthers?

  And when Quince asks where you heard about them, please let them know it was something you should know. It's the best way to support our show.

• 4:00Mike Carruthers?

  You've probably heard of something called negativity bias or the negativity effect, which is basically that we tend to pay attention to and are more motivated by negative things than by positive things. That it hurts more to lose $10 than it feels good to get $10. And it seems to be human nature. But there's so much more to it than that. And understanding how the negativity effect works and how you can use it in a positive way is really interesting. John Tierney is a writer who, along with social psychologist Roy Baumeister, has researched and written a book called The Power of Bad:

• 4:41Mike Carruthers?

  How the Negativity Effect Rules Us and How We Can Rule It. Hi, John. Welcome.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  Hi, Mike. Thanks for inviting me.

• 4:50Mike Carruthers?

  So since you're the expert and you wrote the book on it, explain the power of bad.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  Well, the power of bad is the negativity effect, which is the universal tendency of bad events and bad emotions to affect us more strongly than good ones. You know, when you hear a mix of compliments and criticism, you obsess over the criticism instead of enjoying the praise. You know, when you walk into a room and you see a bunch of faces, you focus on the hostile one and you miss all the smiles. And you know, and this negativity effect, it just skews the way we see the world. It skews our decisions and our relationship.

• 5:26Mike Carruthers?

  Isn't it true? I mean, so our podcast has hundreds and hundreds of reviews on Apple Podcasts and all that. And most of them are glowing. Most of them are great. People love this podcast. But guess which ones I take particular notice of?

• 5:43Speaker 01

  And the ones you can't forget. It's just the same thing's happened. You know, the power of bad, when the reviews came out, you know, they've been generally very good. But it's the one sentence here, the one, you know, cranky guy who posted a review, who you think never really actually read the book.

• 5:58Mike Carruthers?

  There must be a reason why we do this, why we're so drawn to the negative. And I imagine it has something to do with our survival as a species or some sort of evolutionary thing.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  Right. It's adaptive, as evolutionary biologists call it, that it helped our ancestors survive because it was much more important to pay attention to threats like, you know, like a hungry lion than it was to savor the good things. You know, you really had to pay attention not to eat poisonous berries instead of enjoying, you know, the great meals. And it's more important to pay attention to an enemy who might kill you or might ruin your life in some way than to be nice to a friend. Because a friend can't do that much good for you, whereas an enemy can really do bad stuff. So, you know, to survive, life has to win every day. Death only has to win once. So the brain is just primed to look out for those threats. And it's still useful.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  I mean, it's still important to pay attention to bad stuff. And we learn more from bad stuff. So it's a great teaching and motivational tool. But the problem, as we argue, is that there's, and we're in this high bad environment now where we're just surrounded by people, the merchants of bad, as we call them, who are trying to scare us, who are trying to get our attention. And they know the easiest way to get our attention, whether on television, on, you know, on a smartphone app, on anything, on social media. The easiest way to get your attention is with something bad because the brain immediately pays attention.

• 7:27Mike Carruthers?

  Well, and you've been a journalist, so you know the old saying that if it bleeds, it leads. Because people are drawn to the violent, to the bloody, to the bad.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  You know, and I found myself guilty of this throughout my career. It's how I got interested. When I noticed myself early, I was a summer intern, and I found myself ridiculously hyping this weather story to make it sound like, you know, Armageddon. And I just wondered, why am I doing this? And why do readers want to see all this bad news? And the answer for mass media is that it's just the easiest way to get attention. The good news today is that, you know, podcasts like yours are, you know, that's a whole different form now. And social media tends to be more positive than mass media. I mean, we hear about the Twitter wars. You know, there's an awful lot of vitriol on social media, but there's much more positivity. You know, people tend to share positive things more than negative things.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  When you tweet positively, you actually get more followers than people who tweet negatively. And, you know, I mean, you know, these new outlets like, you know, podcasts like this, it gives people a chance to listen for an extended time to something that really interests them, you know, some positive thing that interests them.

• 8:40Mike Carruthers?

  So knowing that this is very pervasive, it's basically human nature. How do we use it in a positive way when it is in itself not?

• 8:53Speaker 01

  You can put bad moments to good use. You know, that instead of despairing at a setback, you know, override your gut reaction and look for use, um, for useful lesson. You know, the upside of the negativity effect is its power to teach and to motivate. You know, penalties are usually more effective than rewards at spurring students and workers, you know, to improve. Um, they've done clever experiments watching how kids learn. If you give them a marble for a right answer, you take a marble away for the wrong one. You know, taking the marble away, the penalty, they learn much faster that way. Religions that emphasize hell tend to grow much more quickly. They fill the pews on Sunday more than ones that are very benevolent.

• 9:34Speaker 01

  Um, and you know, there's even evidence that in countries where more people believe in hell, there's a lower crime rate. It's more of a deterrent. So, and, and one of the problems that we see in today's education system is that we've gone to this, everybody gets a trophy philosophy. And as a result, students are learning less. There's been rampant grade inflation. So, you know, the average grade at college now is an A minus. So, students are learning less than in the past, and it's because we're not using penalties well enough. I mean, you want to do both. You want to reward people for good work, but you don't want to just do this, everybody gets a trophy when they don't do good work.

• 10:11Mike Carruthers?

  But there is a general consensus among people, and not necessarily you and, and people that study this, but, but I think that there's a general consensus in the population that positive reinforcement is better than negative feedback.

• 10:26Speaker 01

  I mean, there's two reasons why we have that, you know, that idea. One is, is the self-esteem movement, you know, from the 1970s and 80s, which is one of the sorrier mistakes in the history of psychology. In fact, uh, my co-author, Roy Baumeister, you know, who's one of the leading social psychologists, he started his career, think, you know, in, in, in that self-esteem research and thought it looked very promising because people saw that kids with high self-esteem, you know, do well. And they thought that's what caused it. When in fact, what Roy and others found out was that, no, that's not how it works. That yes, people who are successful have high self-esteem, but the causation is they have high self-esteem because they're successful. Just having high self-esteem doesn't help you. So that's one of the reasons.

• 11:08Speaker 01

  The other reason, and this whole idea that the carrot is more effective than the, than the stick, we traced the history of that cliche. It goes back to the 19th century when there were cartoons and people would advise parents that it's more effective to use a carrot than a stick. And they would, you know, tell this fable about, you know, you know, that's how you got a donkey to move better was to put a carrot there instead of using a stick. And the question we ask is, has anyone ever seen a donkey move that way? I mean, you know, when you look at the horses in the winner's circle of the Kentucky Derby, you don't see any carrots dangling there. You know, the jockeys have whips. And our conclusion is that the reason we think that encouragement works better is because it's a lot more pleasant to give encouragement than it is to criticize.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  You know, people would rather say nice things. It's, it's a lot less stressful when you evaluate someone just to tell them lots of nice things and let it go at that. So it's, it's more pleasant to give praise, but it's much more effective to give a mix of both because the criticism is really where people learn.

• 12:09Mike Carruthers?

  One of the things people struggle with is what is that mix? What is too much and what is not enough?

• 12:16Speaker 01

  Well, we talk about the rule of four, and that is that, and this is based on a lot of different research into how people respond to financial gains and losses. Um, you know, researchers who study how many good days someone has versus how many bad days, how many good emotions versus how many bad emotions to see what seems to work. And the general rule is that it usually takes four good things to overcome one bad thing. That's the rule of four, as we call it. And, you know, and it's a useful rule of thumb. It means that, um, if you're late for one meeting, you're not going to make up for it by being early the next time.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  If you say one hurtful thing, um, you need to say, you know, at least four good things to make up for that. And one of the unfortunate things has been this idea of the criticism sandwich where you start out with lots of good things for the person, then you slip in a little criticism and, and then you say a few nice things and that's it. The problem is if you say all the good stuff first and then you say the criticism, the criticism just hits the brain so hard that it forgets all the stuff that came before. And, and it, and so the person walks out of the meeting, all they can think of is the bad stuff and they've forgotten all the good stuff. So our advice is to get the criticism done early because, and then the brain's on high alert, and then you say the praise and, you know, and try to say more than, you know,

• 13:40Speaker 01

  four bits of praise for every bit of criticism and, and, you know, and give the criticism and, and, and you can do it in a positive way, saying, you know, this didn't work last year, but here's a way that we're going to, you know, deal with it next year and things are going to be better than ever. You know, so, so you don't want the person walking out demoralized, but you've got to make sure that they hear what's gone wrong so they can improve.

• 14:01Mike Carruthers?

  We're talking about the, the negativity bias, the negativity effect. And my guest is John Tierney, who is co-author of the book, The Power of Bad: How the Negativity Effect Rules Us and How We Can Rule It. A big thank you to today's sponsor, Vinted. I think most of us have what I call someday clothes. I'll wear that someday. That'll fit better someday. Someday I'll have a place to wear that. Meanwhile, it's been hanging in the closet for three years. Vinted offers another possibility. Sell it. Every day, people can sell clothes they're no longer wearing and make some extra money. And they've made the process pretty painless.

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• 16:01Mike Carruthers?

  So John, well, one of the things, in fact, I just recently spoke with someone about relationships and they said, well, you're, constructive criticism is still criticism and that you're better off, at least in a personal relationship like a marriage, to shine a light on the positive things people do and ignore the bad ones because it, by praising the good things, they'll do more of them.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  That's true. I was speaking there about when you're a teacher or you're a supervisor who's evaluating someone and your job is to get them to improve. So in that sense, you've got to do the criticism. In personal relationships, you also, when there's something wrong, when there's something really seriously wrong, you have to talk about it. But in general, in relationships, it's great, the more you can tamp down the negativity and stress the positivity, the better it is. You know, we pride ourselves on the many good things we do for our family and our friends for going the extra mile, but what really matters is what we don't do. You know, avoiding bad is far more important than doing good. Um, you get relatively little credit for doing more than you promised, but, but you

• 17:11Speaker 01

  pay a big price if you fall short of a promise. And, and researchers who've tracked couples over time to see which marriages survive and which ones don't, they find that it depends mainly on how spouses deal with negativity. You want to avoid saying hurtful things. You want to avoid doing hurtful things. And you also want to give your partner a break. In, in really successful marriages, people maintain what, what researchers call positive illusions, that they really, you know, and, and in fact, there's some great brain scanning experiments where the part of their brain that makes negative judgments shuts down when they look at a picture of their partner. They've learned how to do this. And the great thing is, is that when you have these positive illusions about your partner,

• 17:55Speaker 01

  they eventually start believing them too. They've been unrealistically high and it works for both of you. So it, I mean, it is really important to... To avoid needless negative things, to give your partner the benefit of the doubt when something goes wrong, to don't, you know, don't assume that because they did something that bothers you, that they were selfish, or that they were trying to hurt you, you know, assume that there might have been some other reason for it, look for that other reason. And also, really capitalize on the good moments. Researchers use this term capitalization to talk about how you can put those good moments and those good, you know, comments and good thoughts to use. One of the simplest techniques, and I've, you know, since I did a study, this research,

• 18:40Speaker 01

  I've been, I try to do it, you know, every day, is that when someone, when you have good news, share it with someone, because sharing it makes it much more powerful. And when you hear someone's good news, don't just sit there quietly nodding, you know, you should, you know, do something like say, "That's great." Ask some questions about it, talk about it. It makes the trial more significant, it makes, it makes both of you feel better, makes you feel closer, and it really does magnify the joy. You know, there's a great aphorism from Mark Twain, from Puddinhead Wilson, where he says, "To get the full value of a joy, you must have somebody to divide it with." And that's, that's crucial to do in a relationship.

• 19:24Mike Carruthers?

  It almost seems that today, the idea of penalizing or punishing someone for something they've done wrong, or they've not performed well, that penalizing them for it is almost archaic, and that, that the enlightened approach, in some circles, is to praise the positive and ignore the negative, when what you're clearly saying is to, is to just praise the positive, is a fairly weak way to motivate people's behavior or performance.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  Penalizing does work. I mean, there's no, it works with, you know, with workers, and there've been experiments with teachers who either get bonuses if their kids do well, or they get paid dock from them if the kids don't do well. And, you know, the threat, and the threat of that penalty is enough to really motivate the teachers to do better. And students are the same way. So I think, again, we don't want to go back to corporal punishment, but we do think there should be some, some kind of penalty mixed with rewards.

• 20:27Mike Carruthers?

  I know you talk about the power of getting other people's view on what's wrong with your life, because just as we can see more objectively other people's problems, other people can see more objectively what's going on in our lives, because we're just too close to it.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  I mean, the power of bad, we have the story of, from a novel by Anthony Trollope, about this marriage that fell apart for absolutely no reason. You know, the husband and wife, nothing bad happened, really, but they both just kept antagonizing the other one, and it just built up and built up. And, you know, early in the novel, when the wife is upset about something the husband said, her sister, you know, offers the best piece of advice in the novel, as we say, it's, "If I were you, I would forget it." And in that sense, relying on someone else to make a judgment for you, going to them, because they don't feel personally threatened, they don't feel personally affronted by it. And there are interesting experiments, when they ask people to gamble in laboratories,

• 21:30Speaker 01

  that when they ask someone, when they ask you to decide how I should bet, you will make much more rational decisions than I will, because you're not personally involved in that, you don't personally feel that sense of loss, and so you can be much more rational about it. Football coaches are just incredibly irrational, and we see this every Sunday, where they keep punting on fourth down, when all the odds, all the statisticians tell them, "You should go for it," that it's, you know, that you'll score a lot more points in the long run if you go for it on fourth and short, almost anywhere on the field, you know, beyond your own 10 or 20 yard line. It really makes sense to go for it. And yet, the coaches are so afraid of that failure, "What if we don't make it? It'll be on the highlights reel.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  People will blame me for the loss." And they just keep punting instead of it. And we tell the story of one high school football coach in Arkansas, who, he trained himself to overcome that negativity bias, by he said, "I'm gonna, I'm not gonna go with my gut. I'm gonna pay attention to the statistics, and the way I'm gonna avoid, you know, being swayed by my emotions in the moment, is I'm gonna make a rule beforehand, these are the only situations in which I will punt, and otherwise, I automatically go for it." And his team punts once a season, and they have won the state championship year after year. You know, they score 50 points a game. They always go for it, even if he's on his own one yard line, he goes for it.

• 22:57Mike Carruthers?

  Isn't that interesting? When, when the statistics, the facts fly in the face of punting on fourth down, and yet, everybody does it.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  And it's amazing, I mean, you watch the games on television, and the commentators are the worst of all. They're, "Oh, my God, he's going for it, you know, on fourth and one, you know, on the 50 yard line." I mean, it's ridiculous to punt in that situation. You know, you're gonna gain maybe 30 or 40 yards, but you're giving up the chance to score, and that is so much more valuable.

• 23:26Mike Carruthers?

  This negativity bias, the negativity effect, where we tend to notice more the negative things in our life, seems to not only apply to individual lives, but also in a, in a broader sense, in that people seem to think that the world is getting worse, and yet, objectively, from what I've read, that things are actually getting better in almost every area of life.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  The better life gets, you know, the more assiduously we look for bad things. And, you know, there's an old saying, "No food, one problem. Much food, many problems." We suddenly invent these first world problems, and, you know, it's, it's very sad to me, because virtually every measure of human well-being is improving around the world. It's amazing how much better off we are than our ancestors. We're the luckiest people in history. We live longer, we're healthier, we're wealthier, we're better educated. And yet, when you ask people how things are going, are things gonna keep getting better?

• 24:36Speaker 01

  If you go to developing countries where they can see this progress right away, they, they're optimistic. But in rich countries like the United States and in Europe, people are more pessimistic, because they're so swayed by this negativity effect, by seeing bad news all the time, that they don't realize how much better life is getting for everyone.

• 24:55Mike Carruthers?

  Well, it would seem that just being aware of this, being aware of the tendency to focus on the negative, can really help you shake loose of it, because you're on guard for it.

• 25:08Speaker 01

  I try to not read all the news so much, because I know, I know how much my fellow journalists hype things. And I look for, you know, the, the big question to ask when you hear about some new awful trend is, or about some new awful problem, is, "What's the trend?" I mean, there's always gonna be problems in the world, there'll always be some people who are, who are doing worse in some ways, but what is the, what's the long-range trend? Are things getting better or worse, in this case? And what you find over and over again, is that over the long haul, things are getting better. There are blips sometimes, and some people suffer, but on the whole, things are getting better, and we solve these problems. You know, when something comes along, we, we come up with a solution that typically ends up leaving us better off in the long run.

• 25:53Mike Carruthers?

  When the dust settles from all of this, what's the takeaway? What's the message here?

• 25:58Speaker 01

  We want people to realize that there is much more good in the world than bad, and that, and that we, there's much more to celebrate than to mourn. And again, we want people, you know, to know how to exploit the power of bad when it's useful, you know, it's a great way to learn, you learn more from failure than from success, and instead of being, you know, devastated by a setback, we want people to learn how to look for the lessons from it. But above all, we want people, you know, to overcome the negativity effect, to see that, how much is going right in the world, and how much can be going right in their lives, and, and, and to see, and to be optimistic about the future. Things really are getting better.

• 26:43Mike Carruthers?

  Well, it's a good message. People would remember it better if it was a bad message, but I'm glad it's a good message. John Tierney has been my guest. He and his co-author, Roy Baumeister, have written a book called, "The Power of Bad: How the Negativity Effect Rules Us and How We Can Rule It." And you'll find a link to that book at Amazon in the show notes. Thanks, John.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  Thank you very much, Mike.

• 27:07Mike Carruthers?

  And that's it for today's SYSK Trending episode. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening to Something You Should Know.