Should You Tip for Takeout? & The Weird Ways People Get into The Guinness Book of World Records

Ever meet someone for the first time and then spend the next hour wondering what they thought of you? Did you say the right things? Were you interesting? Did you make a good impression? It turns out we're not particularly good at judging how these encounters go. Researchers have discovered something surprising about what happens when two strangers meet — and understanding it might change the way you think about your next conversation. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30183512/ Should you tip when you pick up takeout? Is it okay to let someone cut in line? And if everyone around you gives a standing ovation to a performance you thought was terrible, should you stand too? Life is full of these little dilemmas, and the answers aren't always as obvious as they seem. In fact, thinking them through can be surprisingly entertaining — and reveal a lot about how you make decisions and what really matters to you. Joining me to explore the hidden logic behind these everyday puzzles is Ward Farnsworth, professor at the University of Texas School of Law and author of Should You Tip for Takeout?: Solving the Puzzles of Everyday Life (https://link.amazon/B0d9xGyRN). You'll probably find yourself rethinking a few things you've always taken for granted. What possesses someone to spend years trying to set a world record? And who decides whether they've actually done it? For more than 70 years, Guinness World Records has celebrated extraordinary human achievements — along with some accomplishments that are just plain bizarre. But how does someone get into the record books? Are there records anyone can attempt? And what do you actually get if you succeed? Here to take us behind the scenes of this fascinating and sometimes wonderfully weird world is Craig Glenday, editor-in-chief of Guinness World Records since 2005. He oversees the enormously popular annual book series, including the latest edition, Guinness World Records 2027 (https://link.amazon/B09nnHdTx). Listen as Craig reveals what it takes to become a world record holder, why people are so obsessed with breaking records, and some of the stranger things people have done to earn a place in history. Taking pictures is supposed to help us remember life's important moments. But what if snapping that photo actually makes you remember less? Researchers have discovered a curious phenomenon called the photo-taking impairment effect, and it suggests that the simple act of taking a picture can change what your brain remembers about an experience. Listen as I explain what happens — and why you might want to think twice before reaching for your camera. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24311477/ PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS MONARCH: Write your own money story with Monarch! Use promo code SYSK at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Monarch.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to get your 1st year of Monarch Core half off at just $50 AIRDOCTOR: Head to ⁠⁠https://AirDoctorPro.com ⁠⁠and use promo code SYSK to get up to $300 off ANY of their select AirDoctor models, plus you will get a 3-year warranty, absolutely FREE! with a 30-day money back guarantee. TREES. COM: Right now, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Trees.com ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠have great deals on planting essentials, up to half off on select plants. And listeners to our show get 20% OFF their purchase when using the promo code SYSK at checkout. KA'CHAVA: Ka’Chava’s new Salted Caramel is the perfect balance of mouthwatering flavor and benefits. Embrace your salty side. Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code SYSK to get 15% off your first order! VINTED: Ready to clean out your closet and make some extra money? Download the Vinted app for free and start listing! With no seller fees, you keep every dollar you earn and for a limited time, enjoy free shipping in the US on Vinted. QUINCE: Find your next Fall favorites at Quince! Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Quince.com/sysk⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too! PLANET VISIONARIES: In partnership with The Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative, this is Planet Visionaries. Listen or watch wherever you get your podcasts! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Mike Carruthers?

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• 0:44Mike Carruthers?

  things that are surprisingly easy to miss on your own. And I found that once you actually see the numbers, you look at your money differently. If you've ever wondered, where exactly is all my money going? I think you'll find Monarch pretty eye opening. Write your own money story with Monarch. Use code SYSK at monarch.com to get your first year of Monarch Core half off at just $50. That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com with code SYSK.

• 1:22Mike Carruthers?

  Today on Something You Should Know, it's quite possible people like you more than you think. Then, how to handle those everyday questions like, is it okay to drive over the speed limit? Or let someone cut in line? Or should you tip for takeout?

• 1:38Speaker 01

  We've all had the experience, I think, of going to a coffee shop. You tip before they've done anything, and then they might even do a bad job. So you end up waiting around for 15 minutes for your coffee and thinking, why did I tip this person before they did anything? I should have had my choice to make at the end.

• 1:53Mike Carruthers?

  Also, why taking pictures can do funny things to your memory. And how people get into the Guinness Book of World Records, and it's not easy.

• 2:03Speaker 02

  We reject between 90 and 95% of what we get because most of what we get is just really weird and sometimes illegal and just impossible to quantify or qualify.

• 2:16Mike Carruthers?

  All this today on Something You Should Know.

• 2:20Speaker 03

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• 3:46Mike Carruthers?

  Something You Should Know, fascinating intel, the world's top experts, and practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers.

• 4:00Mike Carruthers?

  After you meet someone new, have you ever wondered, I wonder if they liked me? I wonder if I made a good first impression? Well, that's the question we're going to start with today as we begin this episode. I'm Mike Carruthers. So after meeting someone new, it's very easy to replay the conversation and wonder, did I talk too much? Was that a stupid joke? Did they actually like me? Well, here's some reassuring news. They probably liked you more than you think they did. Researchers call this the liking gap. In studies involving strangers meeting for the first time, people consistently underestimated how much the other person liked them

• 4:44Mike Carruthers?

  and enjoyed talking with them. It happened after short conversations, longer conversations, and even among college students getting to know their dorm mates. And a newer analysis published in 2026 found the same basic pattern. Why? Well, we all have access to our own awkward thoughts and insecurities, but not the other person's. So afterwards, we tend to focus on what we think went wrong while overlooking signals that the other person enjoyed our company. So the next time you meet somebody and walk away thinking, I'm not so sure they liked me. Don't put too much faith in that assessment.

• 5:26Mike Carruthers?

  Research suggests you're probably a tougher critic on yourself than they are. And that is something you should know.

• 5:37Mike Carruthers?

  Here's a question. Should you tip when you pick up takeout? Seems simple enough until you actually try to decide what the right answer is. Some people tip, why not you? But what are you tipping for? Or what about letting someone cut in line? It seems generous of you, but is it unfair to everyone behind you? And if you're on an empty highway with no other cars around, is there really anything wrong with driving over the speed limit? Although it is against the law. Well, these little dilemmas come up all the time. And what makes them so interesting is that the obvious answer often isn't so obvious once you start thinking about it.

• 6:21Mike Carruthers?

  In fact, how you reason your way through these everyday questions can reveal some surprising things about how you think, what you value, and how you decide what's fair. Here to take us through some of these fascinating everyday puzzles is Ward Farnsworth. He is a professor at the University of Texas School of Law and author of several books, including, Should You Tip for Takeout: Solving the Puzzles of Everyday Life? Hey, Ward, welcome to Something You Should Know.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Hi, Mike. Thank you so much for having me.

• 6:54Mike Carruthers?

  So explain, if you had to call this something, if you had to categorize this as a topic of conversation, what are we about to talk about? And how did you get into this? Because I find this stuff fascinating.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  Well, I think we're about to talk about how to approach everyday life in a more rational way and think a little longer and harder about everyday problems that usually just annoy us. We may also be about to talk about dinnertime conversations. So one problem I think we all have now is that dinner conversations so often veer into either politics or whether and when AI is going to kill us all. And I think it's fun to have other things to talk about. And I think everyday life is a very fruitful source of good things to discuss over the dinner table. You can learn a lot about how to think hard about big things by thinking harder about little things.

• 7:49Mike Carruthers?

  Well, let's dive into the deep end here, since it's the title of your book. What do you think about paying for takeout? I have my beliefs. What do you say?

• 7:59Speaker 01

  What I think what I would say about that is probably we'd better if we didn't. But since that's the custom that we've come to, we should. And to me, it's more interesting to think about, to back up and think, why do we tip ever in general? And of course, in some cultures, they don't do much tipping. But in ours, we do a fair amount of tipping. And then again, sometimes we don't.

• 8:19Mike Carruthers?

  Well, wait, but first of all, I mean, I've always thought tipping is for service. How can you tip for service if you really didn't get a lot of service in takeout? And then sometimes, when you go pick up your takeout, before you even see the food or get close to it, they're asking for a tip, so you have nothing to base it on. And I recently interviewed someone about tipping who said, it is not as customary as people think. Yes, you're always asked, but most people don't. They don't tip for takeout.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  That empirical question about how much people tip for takeout is open. My impression from the data is that a majority now probably do. But let's back up and think about what you raised, because I think you're right. We've all had the experience, I think, of going to a coffee shop. You tip before they've done anything, and then they might even do a bad job. So you end up waiting around for 15 minutes for your coffee and thinking, why did I tip this person before they did anything? I should have had my choice to make at the end. And our view is that proprietors of takeout places have basically made a decision that they want to raise their prices. And they don't want to do that by putting a price hike on the menu. They want to do that by inviting you to tip because they got to pay their staff. So the way to think about it is if you weren't asked to tip for takeout,

• 9:40Speaker 01

  you'd probably be getting charged more for whatever you're taking out, for the pizza or the coffee or whatever. And the question is, what would you prefer? Would you rather be charged a flat rate more? Or would you rather they gave you a little discretion and said, we need to charge you something more, but you can have something to say about how much more. You could even decide not to pay anything more, and we'll sum up what everybody's willing to pay, and we'll make that the form that our price hike takes. I think that's the situation we're now in. And our view is if that's the way they want to play, maybe we should welcome the discretion.

• 10:11Mike Carruthers?

  Well, then maybe they should call it something else. When you call it tipping, tipping to me is something you do for service. If this is going to be paid before there is any service or lack of service, then it's not tipping. There ought to be maybe another name for it.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  However, with that custom having been established, my view is they're simply choosing. You're not doing, when you tip for takeout, you're not doing what you just described. You're not tipping, you're not giving an extra for service. You're just paying a component of the price of what you're buying, but you're paying it in a different form. That tipping has been changed. It used to be just what you just said. It has turned into something different. It's turned into a piece of the price of what you're buying that they are leaving to your discretion at the end of the transaction. And if you don't really think of it as a tip, you just think of it as, we are raising prices, but we're going to give you something to say about how much you're willing to pay extra. Think of it that way.

• 11:06Mike Carruthers?

  So you talk about, you discuss reclining your seat on an airplane. And this one's always fascinated me because I've never been put off by somebody putting their seat down in front of me because the seat doesn't typically go down that far. And you wonder, well, if they're going to make seats that recline, why should you be denied the luxury of using it? Then don't make them that recline. But if they're going to recline, well, I'll put my seat back.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  Well, I suppose. But I suppose there was somebody sitting behind you who had a cast on, and it was actually going to be uncomfortable for them for you to recline. Would you reconsider then?

• 11:44Mike Carruthers?

  Well, sure, if the specific situation warranted it. Most of the time, I don't think there are people behind me with a cast on. But yeah, if somebody said, hey, I got this cast, and it would really help if you didn't, of course, of course I would.

• 11:59Speaker 01

  Well, I get that. But I think that you put your finger on the right issue, which is what are the actual circumstances? How much bother is it going to be to the person behind you? Because I'll bet that your listeners have a wide range of experiences and reactions on this. I've been in many situations where I'm in a pretty tight plane, and I've got my tray down, and I'm trying to type. And then somebody leans back, and now my tray is basically running up against me. And the benefit to them in leaning back is almost certainly lower than the detriment to me from their reclining. Another way to think about it is if it was you and your family, if it was me and a family member behind me, I probably wouldn't recline because usually the benefit to me from reclining is going to be less than the detriment to them. Now, if that's not true, then great.

• 12:43Speaker 01

  What we'd actually like to see is more discussion or people looking around to see because we think that maximizing the total good of the situation is a nice goal to have in places like this. We don't think you should never recline. What we'd like to see, in a perfect world, we'd like to see more negotiation, between the person in front and the person behind. But you know, that's very awkward. Who wants to negotiate on an airplane? When you go buy a ticket, you probably noticed nowadays, more than 10 years ago, that they proposed to charge you to pick a seat on the plane, right? You know what I'm saying? Like, have you noticed that more now than 10 years ago?

• 13:17Mike Carruthers?

  Yeah, of course.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  When you pick your seat on the plane, oh, it's $45, it's $35. And that's a little annoying. But one way to think about that is if you care about being reclined on, if you don't like it, here's your chance to get around that. You can pay for a seat with some more legroom, and then it won't bother you so much. And so we think it's actually a good thing. It's a substitute for negotiating with the person behind you, which is too awkward on an airplane. The airline's going to do it for you by proposing to charge you a little extra if you actually care about this.

• 13:43Mike Carruthers?

  So here's one that I really want you to weigh in on because it's so not a big deal, but people, I think, have strong emotions about. You go to some play, some high school play, and it's not that great. And everybody's standing up in a standing ovation at the end. And you think, really? It wasn't that good. Do you or don't you?

• 14:05Speaker 01

  This is sort of like tipping for takeout to me, and I think you and I agree. I think that standing ovations, it would be better if they were not given in those situations you just described. I don't like them. The same way I don't really like tipping for takeout as a custom. But once that's become the custom, I go with the custom. So when everybody stands up, I stand up. In the same way, I mentioned before, tipping for takeout, it isn't really tipping in the same way that tipping used to mean. And a standing ovation isn't really a standing ovation either. It used to mean something really special. It used to mean, wow, I'm not just clapping, I'm standing up. This was exceptional. Well, that isn't what it means anymore. It might be better if it did mean that, but we've turned it into something about as conventional as applause at the end of a play.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  So I just shrug and stand up and just accept that everybody knows this doesn't mean what it looks like it means. I'm not actually saying it's exceptional. The same way when I tip now, I'm not act for takeout, I'm not really tipping in the way that tipping used to mean. I'm standing up, and I'm giving a little free or inexpensive benefit to the performers, who after all probably aren't paid that much. I mean, the people who put on these plays, even when they're mediocre, are probably doing it not so much for the money because there isn't that much money involved, but because they enjoy being praised.

• 15:20Mike Carruthers?

  Right. And at the end of the day, if you don't stand up at the high school play, you just look like the curmudgeon. What are you trying to say? I mean, what different? No one's going to remember if you stood up or didn't stand up, but they might notice, well, what's up with that guy?

• 15:38Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 15:39Mike Carruthers?

  So why not just go with the flow, and it's over? And by not standing up, what does that do for you? Nothing.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  That's right. It just makes you look like a grouch. But it's interesting to think about how that happens because what you just identified is an important way that social pressure gets exerted on people, right? I mean, imagine the first time there was a standing ovation for a mediocre play. Somebody who's maybe a relative of the people on the stage, they stand up. And then a couple more people think, well, I don't want them to be alone. I'll stand up. But then when those three people are standing up, somebody else says, well, okay, I'll go along with that. I thought it was all right. And then pretty soon, Mike, you look like a grouch because you're not standing up. So you stand up to avoid looking like a grouch. And now everybody's standing up, even though hardly anybody wanted to. And sometimes that's just the way it works in social life. But I'm with you. I just go ahead and stand up because I don't want to send the wrong signal.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  And I just accept that everybody involved knows that the standing ovation doesn't mean what it used to.

• 16:36Mike Carruthers?

  So I next want to talk about letting people cut in line. And we'll do that when we come back right after this.

• 16:46Speaker 04

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• 17:44Mike Carruthers?

  My guest is Ward Farnsworth. He's a professor at the University of Texas School of Law and author of the book, Should You Tip for Takeout: Solving the Puzzles of Everyday Life? So, Ward, letting people cut in line, people have very strong feelings about that. I have my position on it, and I'd like to hear what you have to say.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  Well, I think it's case by case, and I'm probably a soft touch, but the question is this, is there a line behind you? I mean, if you're the only person in line in the grocery store and somebody's in a hurry and has fewer groceries, I just let them go right ahead. The hard part is, what if there are five or six people behind you? Now, if you let somebody cut in front of you, you're not just giving away some of your own time, you're giving away the time of the people who are already in line behind you too. And so, we think instead of spending their time that way, if you really think that the person cutting in line has a great case to make, then go to the back of the line, basically switch places with them. Let them go in where you are, you go to the back, and in that way, you're spending your own time to help them, and you're not forcing the same expenditure on everybody else who's already behind you.

• 18:50Mike Carruthers?

  To me, it really matters what the reason is that they're in a hurry, that, you know, if they have a plane to catch, or that, you know, there's some important reason that they need to get out of the store fast, and the better the reason, the more likely I am to let them go ahead of me.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Well, I feel the same way, but of course, you have to remember, there might be people behind you in line who have reasons just as good.

• 19:14Mike Carruthers?

  Yep.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  And they thought it was more civil not to try to cut in line, just to, they just say to themselves, I got here late, I've got to take my lumps. So, if you let this person cut in line, you might be prioritizing them over somebody behind you who's in the same boat. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, I just think that when you stop and think about it, maybe going to the back of the line is the polite thing to do. Now, I admit, nobody wants to do that. You might think, well, it's one thing to let them in front of me, I'm not going to the back of the line. But if that's how you feel, maybe letting them cut isn't such a good idea, because the costs and benefits might not cash out the way you're imagining.

• 19:47Mike Carruthers?

  Have you ever done that?

• 19:48Speaker 01

  I've done it once. I generally don't do it, but I'm pretty stingy about letting people cut in line. If they've got a great reason, I might knuckle under, I might look around and ask the people behind me. Something else to consider is just moving back a few places. It really depends on the length of the line. And of course, if somebody seems desperate, you make the judgment that you're describing, which is how convincing do they seem?

• 20:09Mike Carruthers?

  Right. Well, I remember talking to somebody who quoted some research, and they did this with people waiting in line at a copy machine years ago, when people waited in line at the copy machine. And people were much more willing to let someone cut in line if they gave a reason. And it didn't have to be a great reason, they just had to have a reason why.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Of course, that's right. I mean, what you'd like to know is also, how often does this person do this?

• 20:38Mike Carruthers?

  Yeah, right.

• 20:39Speaker 01

  Is this somebody who's chronicly late and always saying, sorry, I'm in an emergency that I basically created myself by being late? Or is this somebody where it's once in a lifetime? I mean, in a perfect world, we might all be given a few tokens at birth for cutting in line, like you have three, or you have 10, and you can use them in selected places, but you can't do it too often, because you're going to run out of tokens. And then, it's fun to think, if you had those tokens, would you sell them to other people? Or would you keep them for yourself? But in any event, we just think it's interesting to pause and ask about the economics of that situation. If somebody asks to cut in line, what's the real rationale for letting them do it? I think it's usually because what you imagine is that the cost to you is pretty small, and the benefit to them is pretty large. It's a little like reclining in your airplane seat.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  The question is, how much are you going to think about the consequences for other people of what you're doing? Of the person behind you in the airplane, or the people behind you in line when you let somebody cut in? We think that when you start taking that into account, the situation just gets more interesting.

• 21:37Mike Carruthers?

  One of the things people are talking about right now, because there's been a lot of cities putting in these speed cameras to catch drivers who are going too fast. Should you be able to drive over the speed limit? Should you be able to use your judgment if, you know, if you're the only one on the road, and it's 3 o'clock in the morning, should you be able to go over the speed limit and use your judgment about that? Because, you know, the speed limit is the speed limit, that's the law, and you should obey the law, but there's no one else around, so who cares?

• 22:08Speaker 01

  Well, it's, of course, an interesting problem, how fast you should drive. I know very few people, I don't know about you, Mike, but I know very few people who scrupulously adhere to the speed limit. Most people go a little bit over. What they think is, well, I can go a few miles over, I'm not going to get ticketed for that, and I'm mostly just going to go at the speed of traffic. And if there's nobody around, I'm certainly going to go over the speed limit. And it is an interesting problem, is what's the right speed to drive at? An interesting thing we found is that in a lot of places, the way they set the speed limit, it's interesting. They'll try to take a selection of traffic, driving in the most unconstrained manner they can find, like in an area where the speed limit's not prominently posted.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  And they'll set the speed limit so that 80% of the traffic adheres to it. But, you know, once you do that, people start exceeding the speed limit, and it's no longer 80% that are going to be driving below it. Once you post the limit, most people started going a little bit over it. So, there's kind of this creep, this effect where, so if you cut back five years later, you've got to raise the speed limit, because now the 80% line is going to be higher. But once you raise it, people drive faster again. So, our view is, speed limits probably ought to be taken more seriously than they are. The actual wisdom of the crowds, if you think there's some wisdom of the crowd, of all the drivers, in expressing how fast it's safe to drive, the actual wisdom's going to be found at the median, with the median driver, who's going to be below the 80% mark,

• 23:35Speaker 01

  which means even below the speed limit. I know it doesn't sound like very much fun, but if your goal is to sort of find the right compromise between speed and safety, sticking to the speed limit, or even a couple miles below, is probably a better bet than winging it and going faster.

• 23:49Mike Carruthers?

  But it is interesting, as you said, I think most people go a little bit above it, figuring, no one's going to give me a ticket for going three miles an hour more than the speed limit. So, and maybe you think, well, so maybe they set the speed limit with that in mind, and so they lower the speed limit, knowing you're going to go faster, or, you know, who knows? But the question you have to ask is, what are you trying to maximize when you drive? Like, is your goal to go as fast as you can without getting a ticket? If that's really the goal, then the answer's pretty simple. It's, you know, drive four miles over the speed limit, or maybe nine miles, however, however far you think you can go without triggering the stop by the police. But there might be more to think about.

• 24:34Mike Carruthers?

  I mean, you might, in addition to not wanting to get a ticket, you might want to drive safely, you also want to get where you're going fast. How do you balance those things? And one way to think about how to balance them is, well, maybe the speed limit is itself an expression of the right balance, or maybe you think the speed of traffic is. What are you actually trying to get done here? So, here's a puzzle, a question I think everybody has heard before, and that is, if you have a piece of cake, and you're going to split it between two people, one person gets to cut the cake, and the other person gets to choose which piece they have, and is it better to be the person to cut the cake, or is it better to be the person to choose which half you get?

• 25:19Mike Carruthers?

  I've always thought it's better to be the person to choose which half you get.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  Okay. Well, I think your instinct is, I think, a good one, it's a rational one, because if the other, you'd rather choose, because if the other side makes a mistake in cutting, it always helps you, because you get to pick. So, the pressure's all on the cutter, because if the cutter tries to cut in half, and there's a little too much on one side, that'll always benefit the chooser. So, in those situations, I think you generally want to choose, if the cake is all the same. But if the cake's a little different, if it has different properties, maybe there's fancy frosting on the top, and you have different opinions about it, might be better to do the cutting, because then you can do some cutting that might not just cut it in half. You might cut so that a little more of the good stuff's on one side, but the other side's a little bigger, and you might have some strategic ideas about that.

• 26:08Mike Carruthers?

  Well, what's fun about this is, you know, these are not earth-shattering, life-changing questions necessarily, but in the moment, when they come up, they're kind of important, and it's interesting to talk about them and see, you know, there isn't always a simple answer. I've been talking with Ward Farnsworth. He's a professor at the University of Texas School of Law and author of the book, Should You Tip for Takeout: Solving the Puzzles of Everyday Life? And there's a link to that book in the show notes. Ward, great, thanks for illuminating these questions.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  Mike, thank you. I so appreciate the chance to talk about this stuff with you.

• 27:48Mike Carruthers?

  For as long as most of us can remember, there have been people trying to be the fastest, the tallest, the strongest, the youngest, the oldest, or just the best in the world at something incredibly strange. And if they pull it off, there's one place they want their name to appear: the Guinness World Records. But who decides what actually qualifies as a world record? How do you prove you've broken one? Are there records Guinness simply will not accept? And what possesses someone to spend months or even years trying to become the world champion at something nobody else ever thought to compete in? There's a fascinating world behind all of this, and Craig Glenday knows it better than

• 28:30Mike Carruthers?

  just about anybody. He has been editor-in-chief of Guinness World Records since 2005, overseeing the bestselling annual book series that has sold over 130 million copies. And there is a brand-new one, the Guinness World Records 2027. Hi Craig, welcome to Something You Should Know.

• 28:50Speaker 02

  Hi, thanks. Well, thank you for having me. Yeah, it's an honour. Thank you.

• 28:54Mike Carruthers?

  So I have heard my entire life about the Guinness Book of World Records and all the interesting and unusual records that are in it. Can you tell me the brief history of where this started, how it started, and why it has lasted so long?

• 29:13Speaker 02

  So it is Guinness the stout, as in the beer. That's where the idea came from. So it was basically originally a marketing ploy to sell more beer. So Hugh Beaver, who was the MD, realized people were arguing in pubs and in bars across the world. He said, "What we need is a book that you put behind the bar for free, and any customers who have a debate or an argument, you could just settle that argument with a book." And it proved to be a huge success. I mean, people would steal it from the pubs initially, and they decided, "Well, let's sell it in-store. We'll stick this into retail." That's where... So

• 29:56Speaker 02

  the very first edition was the Guinness Book of Records, as we knew in the UK. That was in 1955. Then the following year, I went to the US as the Guinness Book of World Records. And it just caught people's imaginations and became a bestseller. And I'm pleased to say it still is a bestseller. You know, here in the UK, last year, we had three Guinness World Record books in the top 10 in Amazon. And kids are still getting it, and we hear from families all the time saying, "Thank you for existing," because it gets our kids off the screen for a while. So it has something magical. It has a unique way of looking at the world.

• 30:38Mike Carruthers?

  How do you determine a world record? I'm sure it's changed over the years, because now you judge things yourself. But in the beginning, you must have taken other people's word for it. So how did that all come to be?

• 30:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, the original format was the founding editors would just reach out to academics, mostly. The instruction was, "Provide the S's from the ISTs." So what's the biggest, the tallest, the smallest, the longest? And you source that from the S, so the experts: biologists, conchologists, zoologists. And over time, individuals began contacting us and saying, "You know, I've done this thing, and it's quite amazing. You should recognize it." And, you know, over the years, we were a bit suspicious of this, I think. This is

• 31:32Speaker 02

  before my time. But we realized that what the book is, is actually an inspiration for people who want to be better themselves, who want to better themselves, to improve the lot of the world generally. You know, the rising tide lifts all the ships. And so we said, "Well, yeah, you know what? Let's welcome this. Let's say, yes, we will allow people to suggest ideas to us. We will ourselves go and adjudicate and, you know, count these giant collections, or count the heads in a huge crowd of people in a giant music ensemble." And then, over time, what's happened is that that's become the majority of what we do

• 32:13Speaker 02

  now. So we have, you know, 60, 70 adjudicators around the world. We get over 1,000 applications a week sometimes for people who want to get in. We still have all these classics, of course. We still have Mount Everest as the tallest or the highest, in fact, mountain. But we also have, like, just, you know, what a regular grandma might have done at home because she's grown the biggest tomato plant. There's a great, you know, Beth Johnson, an American mom, who just decided one day to build a giant yo-yo, just because, you know, there's no yo-yo organization that ratifies that thing. So what we realized is that we

• 32:53Speaker 02

  can fill a gap here. We can be that ratifier, who will, you know, lend credence to things that you can't get ratified anywhere else.

• 33:02Mike Carruthers?

  Let me ask you, though. So your example of, okay, so this lady grows the biggest tomato. So she now is in the Guinness World Record Book of the Biggest Tomato. But that doesn't necessarily mean it is the biggest tomato. It's just the biggest tomato you found, right? I mean, how does it become a world record as opposed to just a record of the people that you've been able to find that grew tomatoes?

• 33:29Speaker 02

  I mean, in that very specific case, yeah, we'll be in touch with lots of competitions. There's competitions in Alaska, there's in the UK. In fact, it was just this weekend was the Malvern Big Vets Competition. So there's a community, and what you end up in, you engage with that community. And trust me, they will tell you if you haven't got the biggest tomato. Tomato, sorry, American. They will let you know very vocally, and, yeah, especially now with social media. So this almost self-certifies because the community will get in touch. And we trust we have this huge team of experts. We still use experts

• 34:12Speaker 02

  across all these fields. I mean, an interesting example I'll give you is the world's shortest man ever measured, Chandr Bhadhur Danghi from Nepal. We didn't find him until he was, I think, 72 years old, which means that, like, for the last 50 years, we effectively had the wrong shortest person, or the shortest man, because we hadn't found him. And we have to say that we're not omnipotent. We're not, you know, godly beings. All we can do is say, "If we can find you and get the evidence in, and you can prove it, then we'll be able

• 34:52Speaker 02

  to say, we think, as far as we're concerned, as the global authority on this, we call ourselves, that we think you are the shortest man, or have the biggest tomato, or the biggest yo-yo, or whatever it is. And if not, let us know, because, you know, we want records to be broken. That's one of the key criteria, is that record must be breakable. So we want to encourage competition, and we want people to have a go and just be part of the whole thing, and, you know, keep on improving across every possible topic."

• 35:24Mike Carruthers?

  And so just how short is the shortest man?

• 35:28Speaker 02

  Off the top of my head, Danghi, the problem is he had this strange sort of stoop, because his legs had fused into a sort of squatting position. And what we assess is their stature, which meant that we couldn't stretch him out, because that would involve basically breaking his legs, which obviously we don't want to do. But he reached 50, what, 54.6 centimeters. So that's 1'9", 1'9 1/2. And that's the shortest that we'd ever measured. I was lucky enough to be the one to do that measurement as well. You know, this is a

• 36:13Speaker 02

  good example. Some, I think a wood cart was passing through his village, and saw this guy, thought, "Wow, he is really short. About the people from Guinness World Records, we'd love to hear about him." He did a little film of him, sent us the video, and said, "Look, why don't you go and investigate this guy?" So he did. I got on a plane with my tape measure and went to Nepal and found this fellow.

• 36:35Mike Carruthers?

  Do you ever get people who are trying to fool you or try to sneak some world record by you by, you know, throwing up a smokescreen?

• 36:44Speaker 02

  There was a tallest man in Ukraine. He was claiming to be eight foot five. Now, that's exceptional. That's like second tallest ever in the world in history. I thought, well, something's weird here. And we got sent photographs, him at home, him with his mum, him outside in the garden. I said, yeah, but I don't know how tall his mum is. I don't know how big or small the house he lives in. It was a very humble house in the middle of the country. Eventually, I contacted a doctor who claimed to have measured him. And he said, yeah, no, he's eight foot five. And when I pushed him, I said, well, I didn't actually measure him. I just, it was in the newspaper. So I just accepted it to be true.

• 37:26Speaker 02

  And then, yeah, a couple of months on, as I was trying to reach out to him, and he was refusing to let me come and visit him, I saw a photograph of him with Viktor Yuchenko, the premier of Ukraine at the time, who I knew was six foot. And just doing a very quick job in Photoshop, you can do it very quickly. You can see, no, you're probably seven foot two. Now, it's still impressive, but why lie? Why say you're eight foot three when you're eight foot five when you're clearly not? And it will come out eventually. And if you don't let us come and measure you, we can't accept it anyway, because we need evidence, and we need good, solid evidence.

• 38:03Mike Carruthers?

  It's interesting that, because I'm sure, you know, many men will lie about how tall they are, and they'll add an inch or two, but to add a foot and try to get away with that, I mean, that's, that's, that's pretty bold. That's pretty bold. So you have a lot of very strange world records that, like, there's one in the new book here about the largest Afro on a woman, which, I mean, was that her idea to establish a record for that? I mean, that's not something I would go, you know, I really need to know who's got the biggest Afro. Where does that come from?

• 38:43Speaker 02

  There's a huge community with interest in natural hair, you know. So this is Jessica Martinez, but she's not establishing this record. I mean, her Afro's, what, six foot, almost six foot, three inches in circumference. But that's only, that only beat the previous record, which beat the previous record, which beat the previous record. You know, you can look back. And what we want to do with this book is say, look at this, look at all these amazing things around the world that you may not have heard about or even know about. To me, that's always the most interesting record, when you discover there's a thing that you didn't even know, that there's a record for a thing that you didn't even know there was a thing for, you know, existed.

• 39:28Mike Carruthers?

  Did you guys sit around a table and say, why don't we find the world's biggest Afro? Or did someone come to you and say, hey, have you ever thought about putting a record about the world's biggest Afro in your book?

• 39:41Speaker 02

  It can work both ways. I mean, yes, we do have brainstorms in the office, but we tend to not need to, because the world comes to us and says, are you interested in this? Now, we reject between 90, 95% of what we get, that's for context, because most of what we get is just really weird, and sometimes illegal, and sometimes just impossible to, you know, quantify or qualify. Yeah. That's why we have this criteria. We did fling the floodgates open a few, like, maybe 15 years ago, so during my time. Because

• 40:24Speaker 02

  before then, we were very much the Olympics in the sense that we decided what was important in the world. But of course, that's, that's, you know, that's an arrogant position to take. Because what we should be saying is, what, we ask the public, what should we be recording? You know, we've got records that have come and gone for things like fidget spinners, if you remember them, and twerking, and loom bands, you know, and we've got records for fax machines, and CD-ROMs, and all that stuff comes and goes. So we're like a snapshot of time.

• 40:55Mike Carruthers?

  Can you give me an example of something that somebody, somebody said, I've got a world's record, and you didn't include it because, as you said, sometimes they're illegal or they're, you're unverifiable, but like, some really weird one that would be fun to hear about?

• 41:10Speaker 02

  The one that always made me chuckle was that somebody got in touch with to say that they wanted a record for the dog with the fewest legs. So a dog with the fewest legs. He had a dog himself that had three legs. The dog lost a leg in an accident. And he was wondering if that was a record, because he'd never seen another three-legged dog. Now, I don't know about you, but here in the UK, it was very well known that the Queen, the Queen of England, Queen Elizabeth II, she had a corgi that had two legs. They then got thinking like, well, have I ever seen a dog with only one leg? Because that would be very strange, and unfair, and weird. And certainly, I haven't never seen a dog with

• 41:52Speaker 02

  no legs. Because the question is, if we accepted that as a record, once you have no legs, you can't have any fewer legs. So the record can't be beaten. You can't have minus two legs. You have to think these things all the way through to the end before you accept them as records. And that was a clear no. But we get things like longest time staring at the sun, or, you know, best suntan, or prettiest dog. None of which makes sense, because you can't, there's no prettyometer, you know, there's no, there's no way we want people looking at the sun, because it's dangerous for you. So we do sort of draw the line.

• 42:30Mike Carruthers?

  So give me an example of something in the book that you, like, your favorite, or the coolest one, or just one that you happen to, it strikes a chord with you.

• 42:40Speaker 02

  I mean, there's a great little story of Miranda Warby, who has the largest collection of My Little Ponies, or My Little Pony memorabilia. You know My Little Pony? Because Miranda, as a child, was never allowed a pony. Her family could never afford one. And so the neatest thing she could have was a My Little Pony. So for her, that, that simple little toy, was, it meant a big thing for her. So as she got older, she was able to relive some of that, the joys of childhood, and, you know, by collecting My Little Ponies, which is lovely, I think, you know. And there's so many, there's so many records like that where you, you know, you need to understand the context of that record, why that person

• 43:24Speaker 02

  did it. Because you can just read something and just think, you know, that's, that's funny, or silly, or pointless, until you read the story behind it, and then it becomes a very different experience. A good example would be also, you know, Diana Armstrong, who has the longest fingernails. It's my favorite category, because people choose to not cut their fingernails. And you think they're only doing that to get the record. But if you look at, I think, everyone I've spoken to who's had very long fingernails, and by long, I mean, like, Diana's are like four foot two each. So just imagine, like, having over four foot long fingernails on every finger. But her story is that she doesn't

• 44:07Speaker 02

  know how to cut them, because her daughter would paint them when she was a child, and the daughter sadly passed away. And so all she has now, she thinks of her daughter, is these long nails. And that's why she grows them. She doesn't want the record. She doesn't want to be in the book particularly. And she only just agreed. She's another example where, had I found her earlier, she would have had the record for many, many years. But she just didn't want the publicity. She didn't want to be logged in the book until her family, her grandchildren convinced her that she should. So there's always a story behind.

• 44:43Mike Carruthers?

  When someone is bestowed the Guinness World Record for whatever, what do they get? Do they get a plaque? Do they get a million dollars? What is it you get when you, when you get the world record?

• 45:00Speaker 02

  Well, they certainly don't get a million dollars, at least not from us. No, I mean, they get, one, they get the satisfaction of knowing that they have been considered, ratified as the best in the world at that thing that they have done. So that's almost priceless, really. They will get an official Guinness World Records recognition, a certificate that says you are, you know, the, you've got the most rhinestones stuck to a body, or you've got the largest collection of frogs. It'll say that on the paperwork. You get shortlisted for the book. Not everyone makes it into the book. I have to stress that as well. Because we have too many records to get in, so we have to curate. And then it

• 45:40Speaker 02

  depends on the record, but you might get picked up by TV shows. I mean, the world's tallest man, Sultan Korsan, I mentioned, he, he's been out to 160 different countries, all around the world. People buy him gifts. He's got all new shoes and clothes. He's had his teeth done twice by Hollywood dentists. I mean, he's had an amazing change of life because of his record. He's gone from a, he thought shunned farmer in rural Turkey, to now being an international globetrotter on TV shows, and has a very nice, has better teeth than me. So there are, there are awards beyond just the satisfaction of knowing you are the best in the world.

• 46:21Mike Carruthers?

  Well, having heard about and read about Guinness World Records all my life, it's fun to hear the backstory of how it came to be, and how it works, and all that. And the one question I think a lot of people have, if they don't know the answer, is if the Guinness of Guinness World Records is the same Guinness as the beer Guinness. And you answered that right at the beginning. I've been talking with Craig Glenday. He is editor in chief of Guinness World Records, and has been since 2005. And their latest book is Guinness World Records 2027. And there's a link to that book in the show notes. Craig, great, good job. Thank you.

• 47:00Speaker 02

  Cheers, mate. Bye-bye.

• 47:01Mike Carruthers?

  We take pictures because we want to remember something. But oddly enough, taking the picture can sometimes make us remember it less well. In a study, people toured an art museum, and they were told to photograph some objects, but simply just look at some other ones. Later, they remembered fewer of the objects they had photographed, and fewer details about them. Researchers call this the photo-taking impairment effect. One explanation is that once we capture something with a camera, our brain may partly hand over the job of remembering it to the camera. But there was an interesting exception.

• 47:46Mike Carruthers?

  When people zoomed in deliberately, photographing a particular detail, this whole memory problem disappeared. So maybe the lesson isn't, don't take pictures. It's don't experience an important moment entirely through your phone. Look first, pay attention, and then take the picture. And that is something you should know. Well, this was a fun episode, and I bet you know somebody who would enjoy it as much as you did. So please, do share this episode, or any episode, with someone you know, and help us grow our audience, for which we will be very appreciative. I'm Micah Rutherford. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know.