How Horses Shaped History & The Surprising Upside of Laziness – SYSK Choice

We have become much more of a cashless society in the last few years. That turns out to be a good thing because cash is really disgusting. Listen as I explain just how disgusting and you are not going to like it! Source: Elizabeth Scott, author of How to Prevent Food Poisoning (https://amzn.to/3XKAvHf). Horses are the “Swiss army knife of animals.” They can do so much. Consequently, over the last 5,000 years they have done more to shape our lives and alter human history than any other animal. If it weren’t for horses, your life today would be considerably different. That’s according to my guest, Timothy Winegard who has researched the remarkable impact horses have had on us. He is author of the book, The Horse: A Galloping History of Humanity (https://amzn.to/4grRHZa). Listen as Timothy takes you on a fascinating journey through equine history. Being lazy isn’t considered a good thing by most people. But maybe it is. If you want to achieve your goals and be successful, there is a great case to be made for being lazy some of the time That’s according to Todd McElroy. He is a researcher, educator, and author of the book The Science of Laziness (Achieving More by Doing Less) (https://amzn.to/4e1R5rw). Listen as Todd explains the power of strategic laziness and revels exactly how to do it. In the heat of summer, air conditioning can be wonderful. Still, it can also be the source of concern, particularly when it comes to weight gain and obesity. Listen as I explain the connection and why we need to be concerned. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-gravity-weight/201606/body-weight-in-the-time-climate-control PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS KA'CHAVA: Ka’Chava’s new Salted Caramel is the perfect balance of mouthwatering flavor and benefits. Embrace your salty side. Go to ⁠https://kachava.com⁠ and use promo code SYSK to get 15% off your first order! TREES. COM: Right now, ⁠⁠https://Trees.com ⁠⁠have great deals on planting essentials, up to half off on select plants. And listeners to our show get 20% OFF their purchase when using the promo code SYSK at checkout. MONARCH: Write your own money story with Monarch! Use promo code SYSK at ⁠⁠⁠https://Monarch.com⁠⁠⁠ to get your 1st year of Monarch Core half off at just $50 VINTED: Ready to clean out your closet and make some extra money? Download the Vinted app for free and start listing! With no seller fees, you keep every dollar you earn and for a limited time, enjoy free shipping in the US on Vinted. WAYFAIR: Ready to upgrade your home for way less? Head to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Wayfair.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ right now to shop all things home and get your space ready for less. QUINCE: Find your next Fall favorites at Quince! Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Quince.com/sysk⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too! DELL: Built for those who want better. The Dell XPS, built for you! INDEED: Get a $75 Sponsored Job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Indeed.com/PODCAST⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Mike Carruthers?

  I thought I had a pretty good idea of where my money was going. And then I started using Monarch. And it turns out, there's a big difference between thinking, you know, and actually seeing it all laid out in front of you. I've spent some time with Monarch now. I've connected everything and really tested it out. And I like it a lot. Your accounts, investments, savings goals, spending, they're all there in one place. But what really got my attention is Monarch doesn't just show you what's happened. It helps you spot what's happening right now. They have an AI weekly recap, and it can flag a spending spike or a change in your net worth or upcoming expenses.

• 0:44Mike Carruthers?

  Things that are surprisingly easy to miss on your own. And I found that once you actually see the numbers, you look at your money differently. If you've ever wondered, where exactly is all my money going? I think you'll find Monarch pretty eye opening. Write your own money story with Monarch. Use code SYSK at monarch.com to get your first year of Monarch Core half off at just $50. That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com with code SYSK.

• 1:22Mike Carruthers?

  Today on Something You Should Know, you're probably handling a lot less cash today than you used to. And that is such a good thing. Then you're about to hear all the amazing ways horses have changed your life.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  We didn't wear pants until we started riding horses because they're not comfortable. So pants were invented specifically for horseback riding. Horses produced the serum for the first vaccines for diphtheria and tetanus. There's so many interesting stories connected to the horse.

• 1:53Mike Carruthers?

  Also, the connection between air conditioning and being overweight. And you'll like this, the many benefits of being lazy.

• 2:02Speaker 02

  It's about, really about achieving more in your life by actually doing less. So it's strategic laziness. We have to eliminate something so that we can be very good at one specific thing.

• 2:16Mike Carruthers?

  All this today on Something You Should Know.

• 2:21Mike Carruthers?

  There's probably no better endorsement for a company than this. I keep buying their stuff. That's exactly what's happening with me and Quince. It started with their clothes. I've bought sweaters, polos, pants, jeans, shoes, a belt. And Quince has become one of the first places I look when I need something new to wear. And my wife and son buy from Quince too, all the time. What keeps bringing us back is the quality and the price. Quince uses premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, merino wool. Their cashmere sweaters start at just $60. And with colder weather coming, they have down jackets

• 3:06Mike Carruthers?

  and classic wool outerwear as well. Quince prices everything 50 to 80% less than similar brands by working directly with ethical factories and cutting out the middlemen. And it's not just clothes. They have bedding, bath, kitchen essentials, and furniture. We even have Quince pillows. So this isn't one of those endorsements where I try something once because they sent it to me. We shop at Quince, and I absolutely recommend you try it. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them,

• 3:51Mike Carruthers?

  please let them know it was Something You Should Know. It's the best way to support our show.

• 3:58Speaker 03

  Something You Should Know. Fascinating intel, the world's top experts, and practical advice you can use in your life today. Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers.

• 4:11Mike Carruthers?

  Hi, and thank you for spending time with me and Something You Should Know today. And we're going to start today talking about money. No doubt you've noticed over the last few years that more and more we're going cashless. There are fewer cash transactions than before. And some retailers, some places, you can't even use cash anymore. And that may be a good thing because money, as you've probably heard, is very dirty. But how dirty? Well, a study found that some strains of the flu can survive on paper money for up to three days. And get this, up to 17 days if there's mucus involved.

• 4:54Mike Carruthers?

  On top of that, one researcher cultured 68 $1 bills and discovered that all but four of them had colonies of dangerous bacteria that could cause staph infections and pneumonia. When they tested coins, they tested a little better. They have lower levels of germs, most likely because they've got trace metals that inhibit the growth of microbes. The best way to reduce your exposure to all this yuck is to use credit and debit cards instead of paper currency as much as possible. But when you do have to use money, it's probably a good idea to reach for the hand sanitizer. And that is something you should know.

• 5:38Mike Carruthers?

  You are about to hear something amazing. Well, actually, a lot of amazing things, all about horses. And look, I'm, I am no horse guy. But horses have changed your life and the entire course of human history in ways you never knew. Just for instance, horses are the reason we wear pants. Yeah, you'll hear that story coming up and so much more. This is going to be fun. So meet my guest, Timothy Winegard. He's been on before talking about mosquitoes, the most deadly animal on the planet. And I highly recommend that episode. It's episode 732.

• 6:19Mike Carruthers?

  Timothy has a new book out called The Horse: A Galloping History of Humanity. Hey Timothy, welcome back to Something You Should Know.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 6:29Mike Carruthers?

  So what is a horse? And where do they come from?

• 6:33Speaker 01

  So it's the result of 60 million years of evolution that actually takes place in North America. The epicenter of equine evolution is Wyoming, Colorado, Montana area. And over 60 million years, it evolves from a 10-pound, roughly the size of a fox with multiple toes on each feet, to the magnificent creature that we have today.

• 6:57Mike Carruthers?

  And was that natural evolution? Or was it engineered somehow or what?

• 7:03Speaker 01

  No, it's, it's natural evolution over 60 million years, largely driven by climate change. So we see lush, kind of more forests give way to grasslands. And this animal, through survival pressures and natural selection, evolves to a larger animal to eat, graze on grass instead of browsing on leaves and shrubbery. Its toes morph into essentially a single hoof on the hard grasslands and steppe of both the American prairies and also Eurasia, where it's first domesticated roughly 3,500 BCE.

• 7:39Mike Carruthers?

  So they started here, but they were domesticated there?

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Well, they die out really all over the world, except for a small pocket on the Pontic Caspian Steppe, north of the Black and Caspian Seas in Ukraine, southern Russia, Kazakhstan. So for example, they go extinct in the Americas roughly 9,000 years ago. And really by 4,000 BCE, they're extinct all over the planet, save for this small pocket on the larger Eurasian steppe, known as the Pontic Caspian Steppe. And they're really reined in from extinction by human domestication.

• 8:14Mike Carruthers?

  And so how did that happen? How did the domestication of horses get started?

• 8:19Speaker 01

  Like every other literal livestock, the horse is a later domesticate to our barnyard animals. Most other animals are kind of domesticated between 10 and 8,000 years ago. And the horse is roughly 5,500 years ago. And that's simply because it wasn't very prevalent anywhere, except for this, this small secluded area on the Pontic Caspian Steppe. So it's originally domesticated for its milk, its meat, and its secondary products from its hides, its hooves, its inuse, its bones. And then quickly, the first people to domesticate the horse realized its utilitarian purpose and very quickly start to selectively breed the horse

• 9:03Speaker 01

  for a calmer temperament and a flatter back, which aids the ability to ride. So it very quickly turns into this pinnacle of biotechnology, if you will, and a living machine.

• 9:16Mike Carruthers?

  Are horses everywhere? Or are there some places, some climates where they just don't adapt well?

• 9:22Speaker 01

  No, they are everywhere. Actually, some of the most sophisticated horses are the ones that turn into the thoroughbred, such as the Turkmen horse, which is largely from the deserts of Turkmenistan, or the Arabian horse, become some of the premier horses in the world because of their speed. So the horse is a unique creature, and then it possesses this unique combination of size, speed, strength, and stamina. It's very unique to the animal kingdom, which we harness for our own utilitarian purposes. And it quickly becomes, in a sense, the Swiss Army knife of animals and our premier sidekick in forging and making human history alongside ourselves.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  It's really a centurion pact that these two animals, human beings and horses, really dominate the landscape of human history for 5,500 years.

• 10:19Mike Carruthers?

  You say that the horses are the Swiss Army knife of animals, which, you know, I like that description because when you think about all the things horses do and can do, and how adaptable they are, it's pretty amazing.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, we use the horse for everything, for farming, for travel, for trade, for migration, certainly for war. And what the horse did was make the world, influentially inevitably, a smaller place. Our global village became interconnected, and that included the rapid exchange of ideas, of people, of pathogens, of spirituality, of invention. And it made the world truly a very small global village by enhancing the ability to essentially get the word out. And it's an equine revolution, really, in all of human history.

• 11:10Mike Carruthers?

  Are horses very smart?

• 11:12Speaker 01

  I know some of your listeners might not like this answer, but no, they're not as smart as we wish they were. I think that's a very politically correct answer. They're not as smart as we imagine them to be or think they are. But they possess certain adaptable traits and social conventions that lend themselves to be domesticated. So very few animals, when we think of the animal kingdom, have the right package of traits and behavioral social patterns to allow themselves to be domesticated. It's kind of like a barnyard Stockholm syndrome, where, you know, both creatures need to get what they want.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  So for horses, they got reproduction, they got fed, and they got a herd mentality mimicked by human beings and certainly other horses in captivity, where for humans, we got a multipurpose living machine that essentially dominated our existence for 5,500 years. But no, most of it is instinctive behavior with horses or classical conditioning. A good example of that is getting horses to charge. They're designed for flight, obviously, not fight. They don't have claws, they don't have sharp teeth, they don't have horns.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  And their evolution is designed for flight, not fight. Yet we can get them to charge headlong into a symphony of destruction during battle. And that's an innate social behavior from how the herd mentality works, that we can mimic that in combat. Although I should say, we can get humans to do the same thing, so maybe we're not very smart either. I don't know.

• 12:48Mike Carruthers?

  So I understand that we've domesticated what is now the modern horse, but there are also horses in the wild, as I understand it. So how did they get to be in the wild?

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Well, actually, there's no true wild horses left on the planet. So all the horses we refer to as wild, whether they be in the American Southwest, Canada, Australia, the Marquesas has so-called wild horses. They're really feral domesticates that either escaped or were released and now essentially breed in the wild, but they're not truly wild horses. Every horse on the planet is a domesticate or a feral domesticate. And that includes the subspecies, there's only one species of horse, but the subspecies Shavalski horse, which is a squad, often called the Mongolian horse, about 800 pounds,

• 13:39Speaker 01

  smaller than a cabaline horse, that have been re-released in Mongolia and Kazakhstan. They were, again, bred from a select few that survived. After the Second World War, there was less than 20, and they've been bred and then re-released into the wild, so to speak. So actually, there's no wild horses. We refer to them that way, but they're technically feral domesticates.

• 14:04Mike Carruthers?

  So when I think of a domesticated animal, I think of, oh, like a dog. You know, a dog does well in a house full of people, and maybe likes the company of other dogs, but does fine with people. Would horses rather be in the company of other horses? Are they social in that way? Or are they fine just with humans, or what?

• 14:25Speaker 01

  I think it might depend on the horse, but no, they still have a herd mentality, and they prefer to be around other horses. And you see that in these feral or wild herds. They still have their herd mentality and that innate social behavior that they have, whether it be the stallion harem herds or the bachelor herds, which are all males, whether they be males that are old and now no longer have their harems, or young males who are trying to acquire one. I like to call them the reject herds. So you have these herds of all males, and then the stallion harem herds. But what we see is they pull these horses, these wild or feral horses, off the range, and they can domesticate them fairly quickly, or retain them, I guess, is a better way

• 15:10Speaker 01

  to put it, for adoption. And so I spent my Sunday, we have some wild horses up here near Grand Junction, Colorado, where I now live and teach. They're called the book cliff horses, and they pull these horses to cul them, they pull them off and then adopt them. So I spent my Sunday with some of these, what were wild or feral horses, that are now, you know, family pets.

• 15:33Mike Carruthers?

  All the fascinating things you never knew about horses. That's our topic today. My guest is Timothy Winegard. His book is called The Horse: A Galloping History of Humanity. A big thank you to today's sponsor, Vinted. I think most of us have what I call someday clothes. I'll wear that someday. That'll fit better someday. Someday, I'll have a place to wear that. Meanwhile, it's been hanging in the closet for three years. Vinted offers another possibility: Sell it. Every day, people can sell clothes they're no longer wearing and make some extra money. And they've made the process pretty painless. Take what you don't wear, list it on Vinted.

• 16:17Mike Carruthers?

  Listing is quick and simple. And when an item sells, Vinted creates the prepaid shipping label for you. And importantly, there are no seller fees on Vinted. So when you sell something, you keep everything you earn. I like this whole idea, because instead of clothes just taking up space, somebody else gets to wear them, and you get some money out of the deal. Your closet looks better, too. I mean, everybody wins, even the closet. So maybe it's time to stop waiting for someday. Download the Vinted app for free and start listing with no seller fees, so you keep everything you earn.

• 17:01Speaker 04

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• 17:31Mike Carruthers?

  So Timothy, is there anywhere on Earth where horses are raised for meat? Do people still eat a lot of horse meat?

• 17:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, a billion people on the planet still regularly consume horse meat. We forget that it's really spiritual conventions that kind of dictated why the Western world and the Middle East, they don't eat horses anymore, but really, it's for financial reasons. Horses were too valuable as a weapon of war and as a profit-producing animal for farming and trade and travel, as well as war, obviously, to be eaten. So a lot of these spiritual edicts that are passed, whether that's Christianity in 732 or certainly in the Quran, and then the dietary restrictions of Judaism prevent them from eating horses.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  So realistically, they were too valuable to be eaten, and they produced bigger crops, which meant the church got a larger cut in tithes. So there's some economic factors to why we don't eat horses, but they still are eaten by a billion people on the planet today.

• 18:42Mike Carruthers?

  Wow. Ever eaten it?

• 18:45Speaker 01

  I have. I have eaten horse and it is actually quite delicious. I haven't eaten it very often, but I have tried it along with every other fare across my travels around the world. So I'm just a curious person.

• 19:00Mike Carruthers?

  What else about horses would surprise me? And I don't know much about horses, but you've mentioned a few times, you know, your listeners might find this surprising. Well, what else might we find surprising?

• 19:12Speaker 01

  Well, I think looking at it from a historical point, we often overlook things that are so obvious or so omnipresent in our civilization, and that's horses. And we forget the historical power and the agency that these animals had in laying the groundwork and changing the trajectory of human history across numerous civilizations. And they were literally the living machine we use for everything. So imagine our lives today, if we took away subways, the internal combustion engine planes, trains, automobiles, that would be the equivalent of taking away horses from our ancestors. And so they fundamentally

• 19:54Speaker 01

  changed the rules to the game of life, whether that be farming and food production, which led to greater population expansion, whether it be the ability for conquerors to take and hold empires, the exchange of ideas and knowledge. They really opened up the world and made it small and modern, in a sense. And the equine revolution was equally, if not more profound than the industrial revolution or the agricultural revolution before it. It's just that we overlook this because it seems like a no brainer. But some of the smaller facts is we didn't wear pants until we started riding horses because they're not comfortable. So pants were invented specifically for horseback riding. The first people to

• 20:36Speaker 01

  domesticate horses, spread recreational marijuana use across Eurasia. Horses produced the serum for the first vaccines for diphtheria and tetanus. There's so many smaller, interesting stories connected to the horse that we just often overlook. The reason we're speaking English right now, which is an Indo-European language, is because the first domesticated horses had the ability to get the word out, and that was Indo-European, the language of these first riders. That's why 48% of the people on the planet speak an Indo-European language, their language. They also spread their DNA across Eurasia. So it's fascinating to see the initial impacts and certainly the longevity of how this animal shaped and

• 21:21Speaker 01

  created our own history and influenced our modern world order.

• 21:26Mike Carruthers?

  Wait a minute. You said we didn't wear pants until horseback riding?

• 21:32Speaker 01

  No, we did not wear pants. Horses created the most popular gender fluid fashion in the history of, you know, Homo sapiens. So before we rode horses, people wore togas and sarongs and wraps and kilts and all other sorts of, I guess wraps is a good way to say it. And you get on a horse, because they didn't have saddles originally. So you get on a horse, wearing one of those garments, and you will quickly realize that we need to invent something else to ride horses. And so the first pair of pants were for fashion specifically for these Indo-European horseback riders who domesticate the horse originally.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  And the oldest pair we find is from 1300 BCE. And they found them on a mummy in the Terran Basin in what is now Western China, Xinjiang province. And that's how far Indo-Europeans spread east with their language and their DNA. And these pants actually, they're reinforced in the groin area, in the butt, to be specific, for riding. And they have, there's patterns on them, these woolen pants, and they're quite amazing. And I actually looked online because I thought these pants are so cool, I want a pair. They've already been reproduced, and you can buy them on the internet now. Shocking, right?

• 22:50Mike Carruthers?

  And do you have, you have some? Of course you do.

• 22:52Speaker 01

  They're on order. They're coming. I'm going to get a reproduction of the first pair of pants ever.

• 23:00Mike Carruthers?

  There are a lot of references in the English language to horses. Horsepower is one. Why do we use horsepower as a measure for power?

• 23:11Speaker 01

  So it's the energy output of an engine, and it was originally compared to horses. And that's, it speaks, and it's a testament to the influence of horses on our everyday lives, that we have so much vocabulary or phrases in the English language from horses or our existence with horses, whether that be our bits and pieces, or straight from the horse's mouth, or running roughshod over somebody, or horsepower itself as a unit of energy produced by engines. So it's amazing, just in our common vernacular, how much of our daily, not just our Indo-European language of English, but how much of our daily colloquial

• 23:55Speaker 01

  phrases come from horses and our close tied relationship to these animals within our centurion pact throughout history.

• 24:03Mike Carruthers?

  What did the introduction of the combustion engine do to the horse business? Because we didn't need them so much anymore.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  No, and it's at the pinnacle of the use of horses, actually. In the 1890s, really, up until 1920, there's about 150 million horses on the planet. And you think of these big cities in the 1890s, New York City alone had somewhere between 250,000 and 300,000 horses just in New York City alone. And that includes the massive amounts of manure and urine that they're donating to the streets, leading to what's called the Great Manure Crisis of 1894. And we've all watched Seinfeld and these movies that take place in New York with those brownstone row houses, where they have the stairs that go up to the first

• 24:54Speaker 01

  floor. Well, there's a very practical reason for that. It's so your first floor rose above the sea of manure and urban filth that was streaming down the streets. The manure was unbelievable in these urban centers, and the escorting disease, obviously, as well. So at the pinnacle of the use of horses, both for farming and for urban transportation, I mean, they did everything in the cities, pulled omnibuses, equivalent to our local subways or buses. They transported goods and produce and product and people. The internal combustion engine comes along. And actually, the horse was largely forgotten fairly quickly.

• 25:37Speaker 01

  The transition to a motorized society, really from 1908 to 1920 in the US, happened so rapidly that a lot of these horses are eaten, they're let go to become these feral horseherds we talked about earlier, or they're turned into pet food. And it's a sad story. From the 1930s onward, really until the 1970s, these wild mustangs in the West are rounded up and sold as kennel rations for your dog or your cat. And now there's laws, obviously, preventing that.

• 26:12Mike Carruthers?

  So given that we don't need horses to do a lot of the work that they used to do, it seems like horses are, their role is being transitioned, and they're used for a lot of other things. Can you talk about that?

• 26:25Speaker 01

  We're using them for equine-based therapy now, for trauma victims, for at-risk children, for inmates. These wild horses are pulled off the range, and they're actually brought to prisons in Colorado, where they're used by inmates and to be rehabilitated, to be adopted. And the recidivism rates are dramatically lower with inmates who participate in this Wild Horse Inmate Program, or WIP, as it's called. Militaries still use horses to patrol inaccessible areas, the US military, Canadian, Chinese. So they're redefining their role in what it means to be human and horse. But in the process, they're strengthening the bond we've always had with this very special animal.

• 27:10Mike Carruthers?

  What a story. And like I said in the beginning, I'm not a big horse guy, so I don't think a lot about horses. But to hear you tell that story, it's really incredible, the impact they've had on all of us. I've been speaking with Timothy Winegard. He is author of the book, The Horse: A Galloping History of Humanity. And if you'd like to read the book, you can get it at Amazon, and we have a link to it in the show notes. Appreciate you coming by. Thanks, Timothy.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  All right. I appreciate you having me on, and thank you so much.

• 27:42Speaker 04

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• 28:14Speaker 05

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• 28:45Mike Carruthers?

  If I told you I thought you were lazy, you probably wouldn't take that as a compliment. Someone who is lazy is considered uninterested, disengaged, not willing to work very hard. Nothing about lazy is considered good by most of us. But is that fair? Could being lazy actually be a better way to do things? At least some of the time? Well, that's what Todd McElroy is here to explore. Todd is a researcher, educator, and author, and the name of his book is The Science of Laziness: Achieving More by Doing Less. Hi, Todd. Thanks for being here.

• 29:22Speaker 02

  Hi. Thank you for having me, Mike.

• 29:24Mike Carruthers?

  So I have a definition in my head of laziness, which I doubt is the same definition you have for laziness. So how do you define it? What is laziness to you?

• 29:35Speaker 02

  In the way that we define it, laziness is actually an adaptive trait wherein we purposely decide not to engage in these cognitive effortfulness and these physical activities that conjoin with it. And what we intend to do instead is to take a step back and remove ourselves from physical and mental activity and give ourselves some space just to reflect and to be mindful. So that's maybe a different way of looking at laziness than some people think of it, but it's very different than just simply being physically inactive.

• 30:18Mike Carruthers?

  So strategic laziness, this is what you talk about. And you know, it sounds like such an oxymoron. How can you be strategic if you're being lazy? So explain what you sort of just did, but take it a little bit further.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  It's about, really about achieving more in your life and the things that you're doing in your world by actually doing less. So it's based upon the psychological literature. And if you think about it just a moment, we hear people a lot saying that they're dual processing. You know, "Oh, I can do two things at once. I can do three things at once." And a lot of people say that. And you know, when I was younger, I believed that as well, right? I can sit here and I can type and I can also, you know, watch something else on the monitor. But the truth is, we know from, you know,

• 31:17Speaker 02

  an enormous amount of research that that simply just doesn't occur. It's just impossible for humans to dual-process things. We can't do more than one thing at a time. And so what we find in our modern world is that we're trying to do so many different things, you know? We're trying to text on the phone. We're trying to work on a computer. You know, we got somebody asking us a question. We're trying to do these different things. But if you just look at the long term, we actually just aren't able to get all these things done. And in the end, we get much less done in each item than we would if we just simply focused our attention

• 32:02Speaker 02

  on one specific thing. So it's strategic laziness. We're removing things. We're being very lazy with most of the things in our life and we're really focusing on specific things. We have to eliminate something so that we can be very good at one specific thing.

• 32:24Mike Carruthers?

  To which many people would say, "Yeah, but that's going to have a lot of consequences" because they think by doing what they consider a lot of things at the same time or doing things quickly, that if you stop doing that, things don't get done and then there are consequences to that.

• 32:39Speaker 02

  And I don't disagree with that. You know, this is about a lifestyle. This is about adopting a way of living that leads to more productivity in the long run. To be honest with you, the world is changing. It's no secret about AI. Technology is just increasing at an incredible rate. You know, the changes that we've seen in just the last few years are just almost beyond measure. And so we're going to have a different world in front of us in the next few years and we are going to be able to implement these things. I know you're, you know, as you're telling your listeners, you know, some things aren't going to get done. But just imagine the things that in our lives

• 33:24Speaker 02

  that we can outsource. You know, we can remove these things from our to-do list, if you will, because of AI and because of all the automation. And then we can focus on those things that aren't really work to us. But you know, it's work, but it's pleasure. It's what gives us that meaning in our life. So that's, you know, that's sort of my retort is that the world is changing and now is the time that we can make these changes in our life.

• 33:56Mike Carruthers?

  Well, it almost sounds like what you're saying is, you know, slow down, you know, just wait, you know, stop the pace or slow the pace and just deal with things in a slower way, in a more deliberate way, rather than trying to be frantically juggling 65 things.

• 34:14Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Focus on that one thing that gives you pleasure, that makes your life, you know, meaningful. And that's where you'll find success. I think we all, you know, can relate to that. You find success in things that bring you joy. So slow down, back up, and find what is it that gives you meaning and purpose in life. And, you know, we're at a turning point in history where I truly believe that we can now do this.

• 34:42Mike Carruthers?

  It almost seems like using the word lazy gets in the way here because people have a preconceived notion of what laziness is. And it isn't doing one thing. It isn't doing less and focusing on one thing. It's doing nothing. It's sitting under a tree, not caring about anything. And that's my idea of laziness.

• 35:06Speaker 02

  So the term lazy actually has, you know, a pretty interesting history. It comes from our puritanical work ethic that we've sort of evolved with in the last century. So being lazy became a very bad trait. It wasn't always seen as a bad trait, but it became, you know, it first started out as being sinful and then that carried over into just being someone who was lazy became like a negative sort of bad person. This was a bad thing. But actually, that hasn't always been such a bad thing. You know, if you look at some of our greatest scientists, you know, I think that you could argue

• 35:50Speaker 02

  that Einstein was quite lazy, actually. And, you know, Rene Descartes, you know, my goodness, the guy, you know, would spend half the day in bed just being lazy. And, but they weren't being lazy, you know? They were reflecting and they were giving themselves time to, their brain to process perhaps these higher-order questions that, you know, just seemed impossible to get at. And so, yes, in all appearances, they were being lazy in the sense that they were just sitting around and not doing anything. But in truth, their brains were working and they were reflecting.

• 36:32Speaker 02

  And they actually, you know, well, their creativity is, you know, obvious.

• 36:39Mike Carruthers?

  Well, it's interesting, too, when you think about it. Very oftentimes, when you're not busy, when you are being, quote, lazy, that's when a lot of great ideas pop up and, you know, interesting things come to mind. And, "Ooh, here's an idea I hadn't thought of before." Because you're not so focused on getting tasks done as you are. Your mind is just kind of wandering around and could come up with something pretty interesting.

• 37:08Speaker 02

  Exactly. And there's a lot of research to really support that. We don't, obviously, we don't understand specifics of how our brain works or how our mind works especially. So, for example, research shows that we had a, if you have a group of people trying to generate these creative ideas and one group will sit in the lab and try to work on these particular types of cognitive tasks and you have another group just go out and walk and their only goal is specifically to walk and not think about anything. Then the group that goes out and walks and doesn't think about anything has significantly more creative ideas

• 37:53Speaker 02

  when they bring them back into the lab than the group that was working on these cognitive tasks. So, you know, it's something that unique that happens in our minds and our brain. And so it's these moments of reflection, these times in which we're not doing anything particular that's effortful, that frees up our mind and, you know, our soul, if you will, to come up with these new and invigorating things that really are steps forward, you know? And I think that that's what's important about being human is taking advantage of that. And now we can. We can take those extended walks. We can say, "I'm just going to have a day

• 38:38Speaker 02

  in which I don't worry about the stresses of my work. I'm not going to worry about whether or not I met that deadline." You know, "I'm just going to set aside some time and reflect and not have a particular goal in mind necessarily, but I've got something that I'm working on." And I think that, you know, Mike, you've all, we've all heard about how I'll sleep on it, right? We've got something that we're working on. And that's true. That really is true. If you have something in mind and you're looking for a new sort of idea and you put it in your mind, so to speak, before you go to sleep, your brain is actually pretty good at coming up with innovative ideas that way.

• 39:21Speaker 02

  And I think the same rule should apply to, you know, just doing nothing, just sort of being lazy, not having a particular goal, but, you know, having this thought in your mind that "I'm going to work on this creative problem, but, you know, I'm just going to give myself space and I'm not going to stress over it."

• 39:43Mike Carruthers?

  Well, that's great if you can do it. If you're maybe an entrepreneur or a freelancer. But if you work for an organization and you're expected to be at work and working... I don't know too many organizations that will let you not care about that missed deadline, or will let you just, yeah, go take the afternoon off and go think about stuff and see what comes up. And I don't know too many organizations that will let you do that.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  Some have. Certainly, Google has. And, you know, a few companies have, and they've got, they have had very promising outcomes. And so, but I think it takes dedication and a part of leadership. They've really, you know, got to accept that, you know, this particular act of not doing anything and actually stepping away from work is actually beneficial. And I know it seems completely counterintuitive, and I get it. I'm a scientist, you know. I spent, you know, decades staying busy. But I've also learned from this research that

• 40:52Speaker 02

  I've done, that, you know, that's not necessarily, and in fact, for me personally, when I've applied it to my own life, I'm actually far more productive when I just simply eliminate most things and just focus on one or two specific things. I am a lot more productive. And there's, you know, there's no question in my mind that I have not only more quantity in terms of my productivity, I have better quality. And, you know, that's important to me. But, you know, again, I can also understand how someone could see that as counterproductive, because, you know, maybe you would feel like, I'm not doing my job

• 41:36Speaker 02

  if I have my employees just sitting around not doing anything, you know. And, but the truth is, we want to look at outcomes. We want to look at, you know, short or long-term outcomes. And if you focus on that, then there's good evidence to support that this type of strategy does lead to better productivity.

• 42:03Mike Carruthers?

  But at least today, for many organizations, instead of focusing on outcomes, the focus is on being busy, looking busy, staying busy, being busy, because there is some value, perceived value, in seeing people being busy. But back to being lazy, you can't be lazy all the time. So what's the, what's the equation here? What's the formula for how much time do you spend being lazy? And then how much time do you spend being busy?

• 42:36Speaker 02

  Great question. My response is going to be, you know, it varies, as does any other individual difference trait. For some people, you know, it might be 80%, and other people, it might truly be 20%. And it really depends upon your trade, you know, what it is that you're, you know, your profession, so to speak. I think that would depend, be something that we would want to look at as well. So if you're, if you're a scientist, then I would argue that the amount of time that you're lazy should be quite high. If you're, if you're someone who's working at a facility to develop some type of new research

• 43:19Speaker 02

  design, then I think that you should spend a great deal of time being lazy. And that's not to say you're not working, but you're reflecting. And, you know, you're giving yourself that space that's necessary to make those big steps, you know, to, to really push the boundaries. And you, you can't push the boundaries if you're doing 17 other things and trying to respond to text messages. You're just not going to push boundaries. You're not going to make that next big advancement. You know, that's just a fact.

• 43:56Mike Carruthers?

  But what about work that isn't so deep? You know, I'm a roofer. Do I really need to be lazy, or do I need to put the roof on?

• 44:06Speaker 02

  Good question, good question. You still want to search for that meaning and purpose in life. And I suspect that you might want to spend less time being lazy. Because if that's what brings you joy, and that's what gives you a sense of fulfillment and purpose in life, is that particular work where you don't really need to be innovative, then maybe, you know, you need to spend less time being lazy.

• 44:32Mike Carruthers?

  Is there ever a time, was there ever a time in recent US or world history where what you're proposing was more the rule than the exception?

• 44:42Speaker 02

  I would say, actually, especially US history, and certainly since the modern industrial age, that, you know, lazy time was just not something people engaged in, at least that they would let people know, because it had such a negative connotation, you know, attached to it. But again, our world is changing, you know, and as we, more and more of our time is going to be freed up, we will experience a change in society. And I think that we, at this turning point, that we can implement this, and we can use

• 45:24Speaker 02

  these methods, which science has shown us, that can increase our insight, our creativity and innovation, in ways that could lead to major, you know, changes, and all for the better of civilization.

• 45:42Mike Carruthers?

  Well, listening to what you say, it just feels like it makes sense. And then you've got the research to support the fact that it does make sense, that slowing down, focusing on one thing, will actually end up doing more for you than trying to get a million things done. I've been speaking with Todd McElroy. He is a researcher, educator, and author, and the title of his book is The Science of Laziness: Achieving More by Doing Less. You'd like to read it? There is a link to that book at Amazon in the show notes. Thank you for explaining all this, Todd.

• 46:16Speaker 02

  Great, thank you.

• 46:21Mike Carruthers?

  In the summertime, we sure come to appreciate air conditioning. But there's evidence to show that air conditioning could be contributing to the growing obesity epidemic. And here's how. When you're exposed to uncomfortably hot or cold temperatures, your body has to work harder and burn more calories to regulate your core temperature. Air conditioning keeps us comfortable, so our body doesn't have to work as hard, so it doesn't burn those extra calories. When we're cooler, we eat more. Animal and human studies have confirmed that our appetites increase when we're in a comfortably cool environment. One study showed that people tend to opt for lower calorie foods later in the summer, when the

• 47:06Mike Carruthers?

  temperatures are higher. People who spend time outdoors are more active and have fewer weight issues than those who sit inside. Back in the 1960s, when AC was only in about 12% of homes, people headed outside to cool down. Whether it was to play in the sprinklers, or meet with friends, or go to the park, today, when we're hot, we're less likely to go out, rather, we stay inside. So relying less on the AC will not only save you energy and money, it might also appear to help keep the weight off. And that is something you should know. If you enjoyed this episode of Something You Should Know, you know, there are hundreds,

• 47:47Mike Carruthers?

  literally hundreds of other episodes in our archives, which are easy for you to access. I know you would enjoy them. And they're right here on the same platform you're listening to this episode on. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know.

• 48:04Speaker 04

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• 48:36Speaker 06

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