How Eyeglasses Changed the World & The Art of Effective Complaining

If you’re a coffee drinker, you’ve probably wondered at some point whether you’re drinking too much. Coffee gets blamed for everything from poor sleep to heart trouble — but a major long-term study tells a very different story. This episode begins with findings that may surprise (and reassure) coffee lovers. https://www.bmj.com/content/359/bmj.j5024 Eyeglasses are so common today that it’s easy to forget how revolutionary they are. Before glasses, millions of people were cut off from reading, learning, working, and fully participating in society. The invention of eyeglasses didn’t just improve vision — it reshaped education, labor, science, and culture. David King Dunaway joins me to tell this surprisingly underappreciated story. He’s a professor of English at the University of New Mexico and the University of São Paulo, and author of A Four-Eyed World: How Glasses Changed the Way We See (https://amzn.to/46nqL9y). David’s website is here: https://afoureyedworld.com/ Most people avoid complaining — it feels awkward, time-consuming, or not worth the effort. But when you don’t complain, you often end up paying for mistakes that aren’t yours. When done the right way, complaining can be effective, respectful, and surprisingly rewarding. Eric Zse explains when to speak up, what to say, and how to get results without being rude or angry. He’s author of The Art of the Constructive Complaint: How to Speak Up, Get Heard, and Turn Everyday Frustrations into Fair Outcomes (https://amzn.to/45Sdi9L). And finally — have you ever walked into another room and instantly forgotten why you went there? It happens to almost everyone, and it has a name: the doorway effect. We wrap up with the fascinating reason this happens — and why it has nothing to do with memory loss or aging. (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21563019/) PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS QUINCE: Refresh your wardrobe with Quince! Go to ⁠https://Quince.dom/sysk ⁠for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too! HIMS: For simple, online access to personalized and affordable care for Hair Loss, ED, Weight Loss, and more, visit ⁠https://Hims.com/SOMETHING⁠ for your free online visit! SHOPIFY: Sign up for your $1 per month trail and start selling today at ⁠⁠https://Shopify.com/sysk⁠⁠ DELL: Dell Tech Days are here. Enjoy huge deals on PCs like the Dell 14 Plus with Intel® Core™ Ultra processors. Visit ⁠https://Dell.com/deals⁠ PLANET VISIONARIES: We love the Planet Visionaries podcast, so listen on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you're listening to this podcast! In partnership with The Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Mike Carruthers?

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• 1:23Mike Carruthers?

  Just go to indeed.com/podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need the right hire fast? Then this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Today on Something You Should Know. If you worry you drink too much coffee, I'm going to tell you why you probably don't. Then the amazing history of eyeglasses and how buying them today is different than it used to be.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  They were sold by eyeglass peddlers out of a box. And you told the peddler how old you were. And he then gave you what he thought would be the right kind of glasses.

• 2:13Mike Carruthers?

  Also, ever walk into a room and forget why? I'll explain why that happens. And the fine art of complaining from someone with a very high batting average of success.

• 2:24Speaker 02

  It's pretty high. It's north of 50%. I have had complete meals replaced, experiences compensated, so I could redo the experience. Airfares kind of reimbursed.

• 2:39Mike Carruthers?

  All this today on Something You Should Know.

• 2:43Mike Carruthers?

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• 3:27Mike Carruthers?

  find what you're looking for, and track your orders all in one place. Clothes, electronics, gifts, things for the house, all kinds of stuff. And whether you win or not, it's worth knowing. But with 1,000 chances to win $1,000, I'd certainly take a look. Enter to win the $1 million Shop Cash giveaway from now until November 1st. Just go to shop.com. There are so many ways to win. That's shop.com. Shopping designed around you. No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at shop.com.

• 4:09Speaker 03

  Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life. Today. Something you should know. With Mike Carruthers.

• 4:22Mike Carruthers?

  If you drink coffee, and I drink a fair lot of coffee, so I know this is true for me, and I suspect it's true for most coffee drinkers, that you worry about it, that you feel guilty about it. "Oh, I should cut back. I'm drinking too much." Well, if you've ever thought that, hang on. That's what we're going to start with today on this episode of Something You Should Know. I'm Mike Carruthers, and welcome. Glad to have you here. So, coffee drinkers often worry and feel guilty about the coffee they drink. But a study has found that drinking coffee is linked to a longer life. And the more coffee, the longer the life. Researchers observed more than 208,000 participants over 30 years.

• 5:06Mike Carruthers?

  These participants completed physical exams and surveys on diet and behavior, including their coffee habits. The more coffee they drank, the lower their risk for heart disease, stroke, diabetes, suicide, and neurological diseases like Parkinson's. And if you're a non-smoker, that's even better. A daily cup of coffee was associated with a 6% decrease in risk of early death. 1 to 3 daily cups of coffee was associated with an 8% decrease in risk of early death. And 3 to 5 cups was associated with a 15% decrease. Decaf drinkers got the same benefits.

• 5:47Mike Carruthers?

  Now, science is not sure why this is, and no one is saying that coffee actually prevents disease. It's a link, not a cause and effect, but it's a link between coffee and longevity. It's pretty compelling. And that is something you should know.

• 6:07Mike Carruthers?

  One of the greatest human inventions doesn't get nearly enough credit: eyeglasses. Think about it: without them, millions of people wouldn't be able to read, drive, recognize faces, or even function comfortably in the world. Glasses didn't just improve vision, they radically expanded who could learn, work, and participate fully in society. And yet, for a long time, wearing glasses made you a target, especially as a kid. Glasses meant you were nerdy and awkward, somehow deficient. They were a medical device, something to fix what was wrong with you. Well then, fast forward to today, and the script has completely flipped.

• 6:51Mike Carruthers?

  Glasses today are fashion. People who don't even need them, wear them. Sunglasses are practically mandatory for everyone. Frames signal intelligence, cool, seriousness, creativity. We've gone from hiding glasses to showing them off. So how did this happen? How did a tool for correcting a flaw become a cultural symbol? And what did eyeglasses change about how humans see the world? That's what we're diving into today with David King Dunaway. He's a professor of English at the University of New Mexico and the University of Sao Paulo, and he's author of a book called "A Four-Eyed World: How Glasses Changed the Way We See." Hey David, welcome to Something You Should Know.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  A pleasure to be here.

• 7:37Mike Carruthers?

  Well, as I said in the intro, when you think about it, it's such an incredible invention, and it probably goes back a long way, so how did it all start?

• 7:46Speaker 01

  Well, people have been using lenses for magnification for, oh gosh, about 5,000 years. What's new is about holding two of these magnifiers up together and getting binocular vision, and then rigging up something that would take two magnifying lenses and join them together with a wooden frame and a rivet, and bang, one of humanity's most useful inventions, generally considered to have happened in 1286, although the development spans the second half of the 13th century in Italy.

• 8:26Mike Carruthers?

  Wow. That's, I think, surprising for a lot of people that it's that, eyeglasses are that old. And did they, did they look kinda like, like if you saw them on somebody, you would go, "Oh yeah, he's wearing glasses."

• 8:40Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, these were two-quarter sized pieces of crystal, or glass, and not very clear glass, and they were only about four inches wide. You couldn't wear them as you walked down the street, and they were essentially magnifying glasses, or reading glasses.

• 9:05Mike Carruthers?

  Is the invention of eyeglasses associated with someone, a person, and inventor, somebody who takes credit for that?

• 9:15Speaker 01

  We don't know exactly. It's a mystery who actually invented glasses. And we don't even know where. And we know it was in Italy, maybe Pisa, maybe Venice, maybe Florence. These were the cities where glasses first appeared among monks, and later, nuns, desperate to find something to help their ailing eyes.

• 9:41Mike Carruthers?

  And did it take off right away, or did it take a long time for the world to adopt eyeglasses?

• 9:48Speaker 01

  Let's see. In the beginning, each pair of glasses was handmade. Again, they were not for nearsighted vision, or for farsighted vision. They were reading glasses, the kind today we can find in a supermarket or drugstore. It took till really about the 15th or 16th century, when glasses became popular, and they were sold by eyeglass peddlers out of a box. And you told the peddler how old you were, and he then gave you what he thought would be the right kind of glasses.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Later on, in the 17th century, somebody came up with a way of creating wireframes, which would allow people to swap lenses as their visual needs changed. That took place in Nuremberg, Germany, and its design and the idea of interchangeable lenses traveled well across the world.

• 10:55Mike Carruthers?

  Do we have any sense of how many people require corrective lenses today?

• 11:02Speaker 01

  Well, it's hard to know because in many parts of the world, it's very hard to get visual exams of any accuracy at all.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  In the United States, we have something like 220 million people who wear glasses regularly. In the world as a whole, it's probably somewhere between four and five billion people.

• 11:31Mike Carruthers?

  Well, when I was thinking about this, when I saw that we were going to talk about this topic, one of the things that I find so interesting is that eyeglasses are a corrective thing, that they fix a deficiency and that, you know, a lot of people will, like when they get their picture taken, they'll take their glasses off as if they don't want to look like they're, they wear glasses. And yet, a lot of people wear glasses as a fashion accessory. I know people who wear glasses that have no lenses in them, just to wear the frames because it's a look they have. So it kind of straddles like it's a medical device and yet it's also a fashion accessory.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  That's right. And your friends who wear glasses with plain lenses are among the 16 million Americans who simply wear them as a fashion device or to change the way they will appear or to benefit from some of the positive stereotypes of glasses.

• 12:37Mike Carruthers?

  When did it become a business? When did people really start going to eye doctors and opticians? And when did that really start to take off?

• 12:49Speaker 01

  Well, the vision correction industry probably has its roots in that ancient peddler who wandered around with a box strapped to his neck. As an industry, though, it really takes off in the 18th, 19th century, when the training for optometrists and opticians became more regularized. Doctors have been working on eyes for 4,000 years, but the process of correcting vision is relatively new to the human species.

• 13:29Mike Carruthers?

  Maybe this is just my perception, but it does seem to me that more people wear glasses today than ever, than ever before.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  Well, part of that is because people are leading longer lives. And for many people, the need for glasses appears in their 40s and 50s. And that's called press biopia. And it's simply the result of people's eye muscles weakening and the lens itself losing its flexibility, so that, in particular, close-up materials become hard to see. I'm sure your listeners are very familiar with this process, and that's why we have reading glasses today. To come back to an earlier point you made

• 14:21Speaker 01

  about the, what I call, the selfies phenomenon. As soon as glasses were invented, somebody else denounced them as diabolical. The Church of the Middle Ages, and even so-called Dark Ages, resisted the use of glasses, saying, "You should take the eyes that God gave you and not expect to improve them."

• 14:49Speaker 01

  This began to change when the church elders themselves aged to a point where they needed them. But glasses initially were expensive and, as I say, handmade one at a time. Optical professionals, amazingly enough, as late as the 17th century, were denouncing the use of eyeglasses and saying that patients shouldn't be able to choose them.

• 15:16Mike Carruthers?

  I want to talk more about what I think is this fascinating contradiction where in some people's eyes, glasses detract from your looks. They don't make you as attractive and other people think exactly the opposite. I'm talking with David King Dunaway and he is author of the book A Four-Eyed World.

• 15:35Speaker 04

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• 16:05Speaker 05

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• 16:32Mike Carruthers?

  So David, talk about this idea that glasses make you unattractive, whereas some people think glasses make you attractive. But it seems that it used to be thought that not wearing glasses would be better.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  In the 19th century, it became quite common for people to stereotype glasses wearers, and in particular, women. And to me, this is a feminist issue, because for centuries, women and girls were told glasses make them unattractive and might drive away their suitors. It revealed their age. It revealed a physical weakness on their part. Humorist Dorothy Parker wrote, "Men seldom make passes at girls who wear glasses." Things have changed, but one newspaper commented a century ago that wearing glasses was a bit

• 17:33Speaker 01

  like brandishing your wooden leg in public.

• 17:36Mike Carruthers?

  Yeah, well, that's one way to look at it. I wonder if you asked people, when they get their picture taken, when they take their glasses off, why do they take their glasses off? What is that accomplishing in their mind?

• 17:55Speaker 01

  Well, I haven't yet been so bold as to walk up to people and pose that question to them. It's the legacy of centuries in which people have been told that glasses might help them see, but they certainly don't help their visual appearance. We see that there have been stereotypes that are well documented in science about how people rate, evaluate, judge people for wearing glasses. Generally speaking, here are the positive and negative perceptions of those behind

• 18:36Speaker 01

  lenses, whom I call glassers, those people who walk around with a lens between them and the world. They're usually judged to be smart, efficient, effective, and some people want that look, and so they wear glasses with plain lenses.

• 18:59Speaker 01

  On the other hand, they're generally considered to be socially awkward, perhaps in some cosmic sense defective. People who are shy, even religious. Religiosity is associated with wearing glasses, believe it or not.

• 19:22Mike Carruthers?

  Well, one thing that has changed today, it seems. When I was a kid, I remember that kids wore glasses and they went to the eye doctor. It all had a very medical tone to it. Now, you know, fashion designers are putting their names on glasses. People seek out glasses, particularly sunglasses, that say something, that make a statement. There's fun, different kinds of frames and things. That glasses have come out of their shell a little bit, I would say.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  They have, and of course, there is a highly elaborate fashion glasses industry amounting to at least $2 billion in sales. You have hit on it. Glasses exist in these two worlds. A medical world where people like myself need them to survive. And growing up without a lot of money, I was forced to just take what I could get at the least possible price. And the most important thing about them was their durability. Today, people have such an array of frames to choose from online, although those don't come with the necessary adjustments

• 20:41Speaker 01

  you get from your neighborhood optician. And they tend to be an object of consumption. And yes, they've come out of their shell. But what about those of us that still need them to see? And that is huge numbers of tens and hundreds of millions of people in this country alone that aren't looking at them as an accessory like a tie or a beret, but instead depend on them for their survival. I think we need to respect that and accept that and accept that glasses will always form different...

• 21:27Speaker 01

  Perform different functions. Now, looking ahead, what will we wear in the future? Well, it looks like it will be smart glasses. The first device which will be likely worn as a as a wearable computer for most people. And this field is surging. It's surging so fast, in fact, that we haven't considered one of the most important things about this new technology. Yes, they'll let us see. But like Google Glass, they'll also let us take pictures

• 22:08Speaker 01

  and record sound from everything we see as we walk by the street, as we enter someone's home, and then stream those images and sounds to a brother, your mother, friends, the police. So before smart glasses become everywhere and they're doubling in sales each calendar year, I think society is going to have to step up and figure out how we want to protect our privacy.

• 22:47Mike Carruthers?

  So when did somebody say, hey, you know, we're wearing glasses. What if we tint them so people could wear them in the sun and not have to squint their eyes? That's a sounds like a really good idea. Who said that?

• 23:02Speaker 01

  Well, we'll never know. But I can tell you that the Chinese were using tinted lenses to protect their eyes from glasses for many thousands of years, although they did not serve to correct vision. There is a story that the Emperor Nero in Rome, he of the famous fiddle, used to observe sporting contests through a large emerald which served to shade his life.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  His, his, his vision, the same way a sunglasses did now. In the United States, the first sunglasses appeared on aviators who had the most critical need for them. And even today, the aviator's style of glasses popularized in, in films is very important and very useful. Uh, it's, it's everywhere. You could see it as you walk down the street. The Ray-Ban style that the Blues Brothers wore, dark green sunglasses that famous musicians in Hollywood performers use.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  These are really a product of the 1930s and 40s. As people realize that, yes, it sure would be nice to block the intensity of the sun, particularly in a place where that, that sun is so bright as it is in California.

• 24:37Mike Carruthers?

  So at some point, somebody said, well, what if we can correct vision without glasses? And we came up, I guess, with contact lenses? And when did that happen?

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Contact lenses were first invented as a medical device for people whose eyes would not completely close. And they were invented in Switzerland, probably in the 1870s, around there. The first contact lenses of all were actually made from clipped off pieces of the bottom of test tubes, if you can imagine that, sticking that in your eye. Then, starting in the early 20th century, we had various kinds of lenses that were wearable but unbearable.

• 25:31Speaker 01

  And it isn't really until 1936, or, or maybe five years after that, that the development of high-quality plastics allowed the creation of a, a wearable lens, the so-called hard contact lenses. Now, starting in the 1970s and 80s, soft contact lenses became available, and long-duration wear contact lenses emerged.

• 26:05Mike Carruthers?

  Do you see a day, I know you're not a doctor, but do you see a day, because we hear about surgeries that some people think are great and other people, you know, there's mixed results on that, but that at some point, this whole idea of fixing vision with lenses will disappear?

• 26:20Speaker 01

  Well, that's a great question. I don't know that that can ever occur. Lasik and other forms of surgery on the eyes work, but they don't work for all people. And there are side effects, and there are cases where people have to go back for a second and third operation. Everybody's eyes are different, and we need to accept that as we look into the future and consider the possibilities for change. I would love to say there's a day when somehow miraculously, we would all see 2020. I don't think that day is coming within our century.

• 27:04Mike Carruthers?

  Well, what a fascinating history. And I'm so glad we're not buying our eyeglasses from the peddler with the box around his neck, asking you how old you are and giving you a pair of glasses. I've been talking with David King Dunaway. He is a professor of English at the University of New Mexico, and he's author of a book called A Four-Eyed World: How Glasses Change the Way We See. And he has a website too, called afoureyedworld.com. And there's a link to his book and to his website in the show notes for this episode. David, thank you. I appreciate you sharing all this with us.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Thanks. It's been a pleasure working with you.

• 27:44Speaker 04

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• 28:14Speaker 05

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• 28:44Mike Carruthers?

  Think about the last time something annoyed you, like a bad meal, or a surprise hidden fee, or a freezing movie theater, and you thought about complaining, but then you didn't. You just let it go and moved on. Well, why is that? Most of us avoid complaining because, well, we don't want to seem difficult, or awkward, or entitled. But it turns out that not complaining often costs us more than speaking up, and that when you do it the right way, complaining can actually work in your favor. So when should you complain? How do you do it without sounding angry or unreasonable? And what separates a complaint that gets ignored from one that actually leads to a fair outcome?

• 29:29Mike Carruthers?

  That's what we're going to talk about with Eric Zee. He's author of a book called The Art of the Constructive Complaint: How to Speak Up, Get Heard, and Turn Everyday Frustrations Into Fair Outcomes. Hey Eric, welcome to Something You Should Know. Hi Mike, thanks for having me. Sure. So to answer my own question that I just posed a moment ago, the reason I often don't complain, and I do complain sometimes, but often I don't complain because it doesn't feel like it's worth it. There's not going to be any big payoff. It's too much trouble, and I think that's how most people feel.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  I think I can understand and respect that perspective. Where I'd like to challenge that status quo is when you're complaining, complaining is really just a form of feedback. And complaining's got a negative connotation to it, but if you kind of change that a little bit and, you know, think about it as constructive complaining or constructive feedback. When it's done properly, it's a way to point out what went wrong. Because generally speaking, if you're buying something, enjoying a service, you had some expectation. And if you feel the need to complain, that generally means your expectation wasn't met for whatever reason.

• 30:50Speaker 02

  And everyone has some off days, but whether it's that restaurant, that supplier, that service provider, you know, they may not even know what problems there are or what to go fix unless you tell them.

• 31:03Mike Carruthers?

  If you're at a restaurant and you want to complain about something, say, "I'm always worried about possible retaliation." You know, like, maybe they'll spit in my food, or the service will get even worse. And so I'm wondering, like, maybe you've researched this, like, generally speaking, what does the waitstaff think when you complain?

• 31:26Speaker 02

  I think most waitstaff are looking for you to have a good experience. I think in that service industry, you know, where a lot of their wages are made from tips, they're looking to provide high service or a good service for you. I think how you present that feedback makes a big difference. If you are courteous, professional, calm, polite in explaining, you know, where the shortfall is, you know, like, "I'm pretty sure I, you know, ordered this, you know, medium well, but this is a little too..." Rare for me, can you, you know, help me address this?

• 32:09Speaker 02

  If you say something like that in a calm fashion, and your body language mirrors that, you know, that's usually going to entice a favorable, you know, same-tone type of reaction from the server. If you are, you know, angry and agitated and rude about it, someone can pick up on that pretty quick, and they're not really gonna want to help you, right? So I think what we're getting at here is, most people assume complaining burns bridges, but when done right, with the right tone, you know, a complaint can lower the defenses of the other party, not kind of raise them.

• 32:50Speaker 02

  So you wanna do it in a way that makes the other person lean in, because otherwise, you know, I think we're all conditioned to act unfavorably when we hear about complaints. Nobody wants to hear those.

• 33:06Mike Carruthers?

  Yeah, well, I don't like to hear complaints, but it's one thing to complain, right? When you complain, you're basically saying, "Something's wrong. This didn't go well." It's another thing to say, "And this is what I would like you to do to fix it. This is how to make it right", rather than just complain about what went wrong.

• 33:30Speaker 02

  Again, when you're trying to provide, you know, a constructive complaint, you're generally gonna try to close the gap between what really happened, reality, and what the expectation was. Humor goes a long way just to make it sound human and memorable. And a lot of the times, in the context of a complaint, humor is pretty unexpected. So therefore, it kind of sticks out. And, you know, with...

• 34:00Speaker 02

  With no threats or no escalation and no let me speak to a manager in sort of an angry way, you know, if you're asking for something that's comparable, just to really bridge the gap between what you got and what you should have received, you know, you're empowering the person on the other side, whether it's a server or somebody else, the ability to fix a problem. And I do believe, you know, most people, when they're given a chance to fix a problem and they can, they will want to. And therefore, that starts to get into, hey, if you complain in a constructive fashion, you highlight the problem, you explain

• 34:42Speaker 02

  what the impact was. It gives people an opportunity to fix it. And at the end, you know, that does make people feel good. I know, Mike, for a fact, you know, when I can fix things for people, depending on, you know, whatever it is, you know, big or small, it feels good to do something kind for somebody.

• 35:01Mike Carruthers?

  One of my complaints about, well, it's primarily about doctors. And that is, you know, you have an appointment for nine o'clock, you get there at nine o'clock, and you sit in the waiting room till 10:00 because they've overbooked or people came in. And the excuse they give you is usually, well, you know, things happen. And but by now, it seems like they should have had figured this all out and worked that into the equation. And but it doesn't really seem like they care much that you've had to wait an hour for your nine o'clock appointment. And, you know, I'm sorry, but too bad. And what are they going to do?

• 35:38Speaker 02

  In those situations, and I've been on the personal end, experienced that as well. And I'll share something that did give me a little preferential scheduling. So what I had done in that situation was I had explained to the front desk person that, you know, can you try to understand my perspective? Because when I come in,

• 36:06Speaker 02

  Not even an hour late. Let's call it 15 minutes late. You know, only 25% of that threshold. If I come in 15 minutes late, your policy is to rebook me. You won't even honor the appointment if I'm 15 minutes late. And for some reason, I'm not treated the same way. If I come here on time and I end up waiting 15, 30, 45 minutes, you know, you don't hold yourself to the same standard as you hold me, the patient. And I'm the one paying you for the service. You know, have you considered what that looks like for everyone in the waiting room here?

• 36:51Speaker 02

  And when I had this discussion with, you know, the, the front office manager, who of course, isn't the physician, right? They're kind of providing that support service. You know, they genuinely did not see or cared about that perspective. But I knew that when I provided that feedback, they were listening. Because, you know, I could see the facial expressions. It didn't do anything in the moment to change the outcome. Cause you know, I, I was in fact there for 30, 45 minutes. And it was, you know, at my allergist's office. But after that, over time, I did notice I really didn't wait that long.

• 37:35Speaker 02

  So sometimes, you know, people don't really see the issue from the other side. And if your constructive complaint helps them reframe the issue and see it from a different perspective, right? That, that's the age old cliche of, you know, walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you, you know? I think that can really make a difference.

• 38:00Mike Carruthers?

  You know what, you know what I find interesting is that you would think those people, like that office manager you talked to, has been in your situation. Like, how did, how does she not see this? Because hasn't she gone to the doctor and had the same problem? But like you say, they, she's like scratching her head going, gee, I never, never thought about that. Well, hasn't it happened to her?

• 38:22Speaker 02

  Without a doubt, right, but I think, you know, we are all creatures of habit, right, and the more you do things, the more you settle in and it, I love cliches, right, and it's the squeaky wheel gets the grease, right, like you, you sometimes, you just need a reminder that, hey, hey, this thing is squeaky, we gotta do something about it, because, you know, people are different, and some people are very proactive, they, they jump to take a preventative mindset, but not everyone's that way.

• 38:58Mike Carruthers?

  Let me speak to a manager, is that a good approach? I guess, obviously, it's going to depend on the situation, but people very often go straight to that because they figure, you know, let's get up the food chain here and talk to somebody with some authority before they talk to the frontline people. I don't know if that's a good idea or not.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  I don't think that's the best place to start, because with that comment, let me speak to a manager, you, you are automatically putting that person that you're speaking with on the defensive, you are assuming that they're not empowered to make decisions or have authority, so you're therefore immediately escalating and not even giving them a chance to fix the, the issue at hand, right? That goes back to what we were talking about earlier, you know, can you do something in the moment, because in the moment, the manager's likely not standing there, right?

• 40:00Speaker 02

  If it's a restaurant, it's the server, so right off the bat, you are starting with, I don't respect you, I don't think you have authority, let me go find somebody else, like, that's likely what they are to perceive, right? So you're already starting off on the wrong foot. I think giving them a chance is probably the better approach, and if the outcome, or what they're able to authorize or, you know, provide you, if that doesn't close the gap between what you expected and reality, then your escalation path is, you know, speaking with the manager for, for something else, right?

• 40:40Mike Carruthers?

  And yet, going higher up, getting somebody who really has some authority.

• 40:46Mike Carruthers?

  Can pay off. I mean, I've, I've used it before and it's paid off. It, it can make things happen.

• 40:52Speaker 02

  Let's talk about United Airlines as an example. I'm pretty loyal to them. I've been flying with them for a very long time. But gate agents and flight attendants, you know, they only have a certain threshold of authority that they've been delegated. You know, maybe it's something like a free drink or, you know, 5,000 bonus miles or, you know, something like that. But United actually has a customer care department that takes care of other more serious things that someone on the front line can't. You lost a bag, your bag's delayed, you know, your flight's been delayed three hours and the compensation you're asking for is, you know, not just a free drink or 5,000 bonus miles or a $25

• 41:37Speaker 02

  credit, right? You may have to go to a different group, but that centralized customer care department, you know, they're not going to be at the gate, right? So in some instances, depending on what it is, you gotta understand you might not get the resolution on the spot and you might have to ask for it in another way and.

• 42:00Mike Carruthers?

  Yeah, there is something about, about trying to get resolution on the spot that's, that's gratifying, but it, it just may not happen. But I've had plenty of cases where I've written a letter later and gotten a very good result. It just took some time, but the result was decent. Not always, but it's happened. And I guess it depends on, like, let's talk about complaint letters. Like, who do you send it to? Because it seems like if you just send it to some generic complaint department, not much is going to happen. So how do you figure out like how to navigate that letter and then what does it say?

• 42:39Speaker 02

  Generally speaking, I've always sent it to the corporate office. You know, whether it's a restaurant, an airline, a utility company. I generally always send it to the office of the CEO. I always address it to the CEO because that person is leading the company. They're the person in charge, figurehead. I never expect that person to read the letter. You know, like, once upon a time, you know, the very first complaint letter I sent was to KFC. Right? So CEO of Yum Foods. But I didn't expect them to read it. You know, they have corporate secretaries, corporate, you know, departments that kind of handle correspondence, customer service.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  But what you can safely presume is if you mail something there or if you send something there, they'll get it to the right place. And that's what really matters. I think a complaint letter needs to have a couple of key components. Right? It's got to have what went wrong. It's got to be specific on what you expected, what you got, and why it was an impact to you. I think that's also very important, right? Said another way, if you weren't impacted by the shortfall, then there's nothing to try to resolve because you weren't impacted. Right? So if your flight was two hours late,

• 44:08Speaker 02

  but there's no impact to you, then does it matter that you lost two hours? If, on the other hand, you know, you had a very important, you know, client meeting or a charity dinner or something, and that lateness, which was not weather-related or specifically caused by something, you know, and you explain the impact was, you know, I had to... Pay an extra whatever or incur this hardship. You know, if that's proportional to the impact, then someone may try to do something about it. I think humor also goes a long way in kind of just making someone feel like, okay, this

• 44:50Speaker 02

  is, you know, not just an angry complaint, so I want to lean in and help this person.

• 44:56Mike Carruthers?

  I don't know if it's fair to say that you complain a lot, but you are obviously more comfortable in using complaints as a way of getting what you want. And so, since you probably do it more than many of us do, how successful are you? What's your batting average?

• 45:14Speaker 02

  Oh, that's a great question. It's pretty high. It's north of 50%. I would say it's probably even closer to 80, 85%. You know, I don't want to turn this into bragging about getting free stuff, but I have had complete meals replaced, experiences compensated, so I could, you know, redo the experience. Airfares kind of reimbursed, you know, at the face value of the ticket because, you know, it was, you know, such a big impact and such a delay. I will say I've had tremendous success.

• 45:56Mike Carruthers?

  And you have better success with letters than with phone calls?

• 46:01Speaker 02

  Yes. I think letters are easier to kind of put together because phone calls, you really need to be articulate and, you know, you're kind of on the spot. You don't have as much of a chance to, you know, frame what happened, what fell short, how to make it right. You know, you have a lot more time to kind of think and plan and it's not exactly in the moment. If you're prepared and you're passionate and you've, you know, feel like there's been this big grievance, a phone call can go a long way. I will say I've been successful using both.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  I think talking to a service center, a call center, you know, someone like Xfinity Comcast as an example, I've had great success over the phone because I was able to, you know, speak with someone and articulate what the issue was and when they asked, well,

• 47:02Speaker 02

  How about this? What about, did you do something like that? You know, you can provide a follow-up right away. So if what you're complaining about requires a dialogue, you know, that dialogue in a phone call might be better. If you're looking to provide feedback on what to do different next time, sometimes, you know, face-to-face or a phone call where you're actually talking to someone, I think is also helpful.

• 47:31Speaker 02

  So I think your experience can vary and it really depends on what you're complaining about.

• 47:37Mike Carruthers?

  But it does seem like that people on the phone are really just trying to placate you and move on to the next customer, where if you send a letter to the top guy, seems like that gets a little more attention by somebody who has a little more authority and they know that you took the time to write, that the setting is set, the place is set for a better resolution than screaming and yelling on the phone.

• 48:02Speaker 02

  That's absolutely true. And on a phone call, depending on how the other person is speaking to you, it's very easy to get triggered, right? Because if they're not listening and accepting the feedback that you're laying down, it's easy for you to get riled up and sometimes your emotions then can get the better of you and then you don't get the positive outcome that you're seeking, right? So written correspondence kind of helps you avoid a lot of that.

• 48:35Mike Carruthers?

  Well, given your track record of getting compensated more times than you don't, you said maybe up to 85%, it certainly gives people reason to consider that complaining, if you do it right, can well be worth it. I've been talking with Eric Zee and the name of his book is The Art of the Constructive Complaint: How to Speak Up, Get Heard, and Turn Everyday Frustrations Into Fair Outcomes. And there's a link to his book at Amazon in the show notes. Hey Eric, great. Thank you for sharing what you know.

• 49:10Mike Carruthers?

  I swear, this happens to me all the time. See if you can relate. You walk into a room with laser focus and as soon as you walk into the room, you forget why you came in. And believe it or not, it's not dementia, it's not inattention, it's your brain doing something called event segmentation. Cognitive scientists have shown that every time you cross a boundary, like a doorway, your brain creates what they call a new event boundary. That boundary acts like a file separator in your memory. The stuff you were just thinking about gets shoved into one folder and a fresh new folder gets started when you walk into the next room.

• 49:51Mike Carruthers?

  The result is that what you intended to remember becomes harder to access, even though it was right on the top of your mind moments earlier. In a classic study, researchers had people carry objects through different spaces. Those who went through a doorway were measurably worse at recalling what it was they were carrying than those who walked the same distance without crossing a doorway. And I suspect it happens to just about everybody from time to time. And that is something you should know. If you enjoyed this episode, I hope you will share it with a friend. Just make it a point today to tell one person and it would really help us a lot. I'm Micah Rutherford. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know.

• 50:37Speaker 05

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• 51:04Speaker 06

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