Yedoye Travis is Stretching

Welcome! This week’s guest is the hilarious Yedoye Travis! Yedoye and Caleb talk best book recommendations, Dragon Ball Z, early influences in comedy, hat clones, and more! Join our Substack for ad free full episodes, early access to merch, our community chat, and more! https://calebsaysthings.substack.com/ Follow Yedoye! @yedoye_ Follow the show! @sooootruepod Follow Caleb! @calebsaysthings Produced by Chance Nichols @chanceisloud Exclusive $35 off Carver Mat at https://on.auraframes.com/SOTRUE. Promo Code SOTRUE Head to https://www.squarespace.com/SOTRUE to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code SOTRUE. Philo’s where all the best TV comes together! 70+ live channels, unlimited DVR, with access to HBO Max Basic With Ads, AMC+, and discovery+ Sign up to start watching now: https://bit.ly/4oiweFq Feeld is a dating app for the curious. For those who are intentionally seeking meaningful connection. For those who are looking for community. For those who are tired of job interview-style dating and want more. Curious? Trying new things is hot. Download Feeld. To get 15% off your unique gifts this year, go to https://uncommongoods.com/sotrue Fabletics already has amazing deals, but right now they're running their biggest sale of the year on top of that. And I've got an exclusive offer just for you— head to https://Fabletics.com/SOTRUE and sign up as a VIP to get 80% off everything. About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com. » SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1 » FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum » FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/ » FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum So True is a Headgum podcast, created and hosted by Caleb Hearon. The show is produced by Chance Nichols with Associate Producer Allie Kahan. So True is engineered and edited by Nicole Lyons. Kaiti Moos is our VP of Content at Headgum. Thanks to Luke Rogers for our show art and Virginia Muller our social media manager. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Ugh, I hate Mondays.

• 0:01Speaker 01

  King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Swirl Bite?

• 0:03Speaker 00

  Uh, Taylor Hansen? Sure, I'll try one. Mmm.

• 0:09Speaker 02

  Hey, let's get back to work, please.

• 0:10Speaker 00

  But Taylor Hansen's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites.

• 0:15Speaker 02

  Taylor Hansen? Nice.

• 0:17Speaker 01

  Try one.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Mmm.

• 0:22Speaker 03

  King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites. There's nothing like it.

• 0:32Speaker 04

  This is a HeadGum Podcast.

• 0:35Speaker 04

  Are there like three books that you're like, you would recommend them to anyone? Or to me specifically?

• 0:40Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 0:41Speaker 04

  That you're like, you must read these?

• 0:42Speaker 05

  Okay, what is your, what are your goals in reading?

• 0:45Speaker 04

  Fantastic question. I, there is a girl who works at the bookstore.

• 0:50Speaker 05

  Fight Club.

• 0:58Speaker 04

  Dude, what's up?

• 0:59Speaker 05

  Oh, you know, we're just having a podcast.

• 1:04Speaker 04

  You know what they call it? Having a podcast.

• 1:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, you know what we should do? We should have a podcast.

• 1:08Speaker 04

  You know, it's, um, having a podcast reminds me of like, I got in trouble with a bunch of my friends when I, after I went to Europe for the first time.

• 1:15Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 1:15Speaker 04

  Cause I stole some of their turns of phrase.

• 1:19Speaker 04

  Everyone started making fun of me. I couldn't help it. I like the way they say some things.

• 1:22Speaker 05

  Oh, you stole the Europeans turns of phrase?

• 1:23Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:24Speaker 05

  Oh, they, they talk bad though, to me.

• 1:26Speaker 04

  But you know what? They say some fun stuff. Like they say like, like someone, uh, I picked up from them. Someone say like, oh, are you gonna be in town on the 17th? You say, I'm meant to be. I like that!

• 1:35Speaker 05

  Okay, I do like that.

• 1:36Speaker 04

  I'm meant to be? I like that.

• 1:37Speaker 05

  That's very, that's very British though.

• 1:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:39Speaker 05

  I, I thought you were saying like, like Europe, Europe. There, there you go.

• 1:43Speaker 04

  No, fake British Europe.

• 1:44Speaker 05

  Okay, I like, I like the British.

• 1:45Speaker 04

  What's another thing, what's another thing I did that you got mad at me for?

• 1:48Speaker 06

  The biggest one by, by a mile is, you don't say, come to my house, you say, come to mine.

• 1:53Speaker 04

  Come to mine?

• 1:54Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 1:54Speaker 04

  I like that!

• 1:55Speaker 05

  That's evil.

• 1:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, you think?

• 1:56Speaker 05

  That's a little evil.

• 1:57Speaker 04

  I cut you off. What were you saying?

• 1:58Speaker 05

  I, I, I think I like, like, black British phrase, like, my youth.

• 2:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:03Speaker 05

  My youth.

• 2:04Speaker 04

  Am I allowed to use that?

• 2:05Speaker 05

  I don't know.

• 2:06Speaker 04

  Cause I don't know.

• 2:07Speaker 05

  I'm not as well versed in like the, the, um, the gatekeeping of black Britain.

• 2:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:12Speaker 05

  So I don't know. I'm not gonna give it to you on their behalf.

• 2:14Speaker 04

  No, I'm not gonna try it either.

• 2:16Speaker 05

  You can't take that off me.

• 2:18Speaker 04

  Just so you know.

• 2:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:19Speaker 04

  I'm not gonna try it at the moment.

• 2:20Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 2:21Speaker 04

  What is that my, what is, well, fuck. What does that mean?

• 2:25Speaker 05

  You're a you, you're my you, you know, you're like my, you're like my friend.

• 2:29Speaker 04

  Oh, like buddy, pal.

• 2:30Speaker 05

  Buddy, you know? Like you lot.

• 2:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, you lot, I can definitely do.

• 2:34Speaker 05

  You lot is good.

• 2:35Speaker 04

  I'm allowed that one, I know that.

• 2:36Speaker 05

  You can't say it like that, though.

• 2:37Speaker 04

  No.

• 2:38Speaker 05

  You lot.

• 2:39Speaker 04

  Well, it's just tricky because you, it's, it's, the accents get tricky because sometimes it's not just British, there's another element.

• 2:46Speaker 05

  Right.

• 2:46Speaker 04

  Going on. And then it's like, well, what am I doing?

• 2:48Speaker 05

  Right, right, right, right. And I also don't know.

• 2:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:51Speaker 05

  I cannot tell.

• 2:52Speaker 04

  No, you have to tell me. You know, I'm begging you to tell me.

• 2:55Speaker 05

  I'm reaching, I'm reaching into other people's pot for this. I truly don't know.

• 2:59Speaker 04

  Being a white guy, yeah, it's hard.

• 3:03Speaker 05

  Yeah?

• 3:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:09Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 3:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, cool, cool, cool.

• 3:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, I'd love to. Example.

• 3:14Speaker 04

  I mean, this, for example, like, this was crazy. Can I say that? Can I not say that?

• 3:17Speaker 05

  Even this moment right now?

• 3:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:19Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 3:19Speaker 04

  Can I say the thing? Can I not say? That's hard.

• 3:21Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, you, you can.

• 3:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm not gonna try it. Could you imagine I say it and we find out it's some horrible thing in Britain?

• 3:28Speaker 05

  I would love that so much.

• 3:30Speaker 04

  You would love to see me get cancelled?

• 3:31Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 3:31Speaker 04

  Yeah. Do you really?

• 3:33Speaker 05

  I, well, see, here's the thing is, it's always fun to watch.

• 3:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:37Speaker 05

  It doesn't matter who it is.

• 3:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:39Speaker 05

  I think you're a very kind man. You know, you're, you, you, you've been great to me. You're a kind guy. But like, from a, from a distance, I, I'd watch.

• 3:48Speaker 04

  Whose cancellation have you enjoyed the most?

• 3:50Speaker 05

  Um, you know what? I didn't expect you to ask me for an example. Now that I'm real, now I'm thinking about it, I got a kind heart, man. I, I, I don't like it.

• 4:00Speaker 04

  You feel like a sweetie to me, yeah.

• 4:01Speaker 05

  I don't, I don't, I don't like watching people get cancelled. It's a, it's a very bad experience. I'm a, I'm also notorious flip-flopper.

• 4:08Speaker 04

  Yeah?

• 4:08Speaker 05

  It's my thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:10Speaker 04

  Taking big stances and then taking it back?

• 4:11Speaker 05

  Yep, yep. I walk it right back.

• 4:13Speaker 04

  What's your biggest, what do you think should've been your biggest flip-flop?

• 4:15Speaker 05

  That one just now.

• 4:16Speaker 04

  Just now was your biggest ever.

• 4:17Speaker 05

  That was it just now.

• 4:18Speaker 04

  That was.

• 4:18Speaker 05

  That's the one that established me as a flip flopper.

• 4:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before that, you were not a flip flopper.

• 4:22Speaker 05

  Before that, I was absolutely not a flip flopper.

• 4:24Speaker 04

  The genesis of your flip flopping.

• 4:26Speaker 05

  Me becoming a flip flopper is the biggest flip flop for me.

• 4:30Speaker 04

  Oh, man. I'm so excited to have you here. I haven't seen you in a minute. Last time I saw you, I think it was at uh, the basement of Union Hall.

• 4:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. It was, yeah, that was, this was like, and I was on my way out, too. That was barely even a sighting.

• 4:44Speaker 04

  No, it was horrible. I went upstairs to try and find you because I felt, I actually felt bad. I, I, um, we had a quick hug and a hello, and then I lost you.

• 4:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 4:53Speaker 04

  And then I came up to be like, I was like, I put in my head, I said, I'm gonna talk to you, Doy, when I get upstairs. And then I went up there and you were gone.

• 4:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's uh, that's been my uh, my way of being the past year.

• 5:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:04Speaker 05

  I'm very, I've been very in and out.

• 5:06Speaker 04

  Slipping out?

• 5:06Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:07Speaker 04

  What do you think that's about?

• 5:08Speaker 05

  Uh, you know, it's been, it's been quite a year of, uh, I just don't want to be outside.

• 5:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:15Speaker 05

  You know, that's, I don't even know if there is more to it than that. I just, uh, you know, sometimes you have that, uh, you, you have those times in your life where you're like, I've had enough.

• 5:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:26Speaker 05

  Uh, not in like a, not in like a, um, like a.

• 5:30Speaker 04

  No one be worried.

• 5:31Speaker 05

  You know what I mean? Not in that kind of way.

• 5:32Speaker 04

  No one be worried.

• 5:33Speaker 05

  Not, nobody stress out.

• 5:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:35Speaker 05

  But you know, sometimes you've, you're just like, I've seen it.

• 5:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:39Speaker 05

  You know?

• 5:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, I've been at Union Hall, like, before. I know what goes on over there.

• 5:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, and uh, and it's been very much that kind of year for me. I've been doing the same thing, the same three things all year.

• 5:50Speaker 04

  What are they?

• 5:50Speaker 05

  I've been, I've been going to work. I, I'm a carpenter in the theater.

• 5:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:55Speaker 05

  Uh, I've been doing stand up and I've been playing soccer.

• 5:58Speaker 04

  You, okay, I knew all these things about you, and I'll say a fourth thing that I think you're doing that you didn't mention.

• 6:05Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 6:05Speaker 04

  You're stretching.

• 6:06Speaker 05

  I'm, I'm stretching.

• 6:07Speaker 04

  You're stretching.

• 6:08Speaker 05

  I'm stretching. That, in many ways, is an auxiliary thing to playing soccer, but yes, I am stretching.

• 6:14Speaker 04

  You're really stretching. I see you stretch online and I go, I gotta stretch.

• 6:17Speaker 05

  You gotta stretch.

• 6:17Speaker 04

  Because you're doing really good at it.

• 6:19Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 6:20Speaker 04

  And it's inspiring to me.

• 6:21Speaker 05

  Thank you. I, uh, I, I have definitely added that to my personality. That's, that's become a big part of me in the past year or so.

• 6:28Speaker 04

  It's a huge pillar of you to me now.

• 6:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 6:30Speaker 04

  Is stretching.

• 6:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 6:31Speaker 04

  When I think of, I'm not even kidding you. I was at the gym the other day and I was, I was kind of phoning in my stretching. I'm, I'm dead serious in my head. I was like, Doy would hate this.

• 6:40Speaker 05

  You know what?

• 6:41Speaker 04

  He would hate to see you like this.

• 6:42Speaker 05

  You know what? Here's the thing, though. Yes, but also. I think people, I think people, um, this is gonna sound crazy after I've been established as the stretching guy. But I think people are, are over emphasizing the stretch.

• 6:56Speaker 04

  Really?

• 6:57Speaker 05

  When they, or they're doing it, they're doing the stretch at the wrong times. Cause, cause sometime, you know, when you stretch, you're unlocking positions that you're not comfortable in.

• 7:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:08Speaker 05

  You're unlocking things, positions that you're not, you don't have the strength.

• 7:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:12Speaker 05

  And then you're going out and you're playing sports, or you're going and lifting weights, you're, you're putting yourself in a, in a risky position.

• 7:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:18Speaker 05

  You gotta go, go lift the stuff, get your strength, and then you stretch after you, you know, once you're, you're tired and you're relaxed and you're, you're not planning on exerting a bunch of energy.

• 7:28Speaker 04

  Your team stretch after the event?

• 7:30Speaker 05

  Team stretch after the event.

• 7:31Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 7:31Speaker 05

  Yes, yeah. Get you a nice warm up, uh, lubricate the joints, if you will.

• 7:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:38Speaker 05

  And then stretch, stretch after the fact. You don't need, you don't need to be able to do the splits.

• 7:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:42Speaker 05

  You don't need that.

• 7:43Speaker 04

  Oh, I will never.

• 7:45Speaker 05

  You could.

• 7:45Speaker 04

  I won't?

• 7:46Speaker 05

  You, you, well, you could.

• 7:47Speaker 04

  I could, but I think we both know I would look hilarious doing the splits. I'm not gonna look hilarious like that.

• 7:53Speaker 05

  Well.

• 7:55Speaker 04

  Tell me I wouldn't look hilarious. If, imagine me doing the splits right now and tell me you're not kind of giggling.

• 7:59Speaker 05

  I'm, I'm giggling a little bit.

• 8:04Speaker 05

  But I'll, also, I'll tell you whatever you wanna hear. You know what I mean?

• 8:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, would you really?

• 8:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 8:08Speaker 04

  I guess, I guess I do like that. I love hearing what I wanna hear. It is tough to seek out hearing what you don't wanna hear.

• 8:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, and sometime, you know, cause the things you don't wanna hear, you gotta hear them.

• 8:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:22Speaker 05

  You know?

• 8:23Speaker 04

  I tell, I've told, um, I've told a lot of people in my life that I don't wanna be surrounded by yes men.

• 8:28Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 8:29Speaker 04

  But every time I say it, I, there's a little part of my head that's like. Really want to.

• 8:36Speaker 04

  If you really wanna say yes to me all the time, I guess.

• 8:40Speaker 05

  Here's the thing, I think you either gotta, you gotta be around all yes men or all no men. You know what I mean? I don't think you can ever, you know.

• 8:50Speaker 04

  You don't think there could be harmony between the yes and no men?

• 8:52Speaker 05

  I don't think, no, no. Cause I think like if you're around, if you're around like yes men all the time and you hear no, it feels like, oh, so I'm just Jeffrey Epstein, huh?

• 9:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:04Speaker 05

  Um, so I'm Jeffrey Epstein.

• 9:05Speaker 04

  Oh, I'm Jeff Epstein to y'all.

• 9:07Speaker 05

  I'm just Jeffrey Epstein, huh?

• 9:10Speaker 04

  Oh, I'm evil incarnate.

• 9:12Speaker 05

  No, I guess I'm just, I'm just Hitler.

• 9:17Speaker 04

  Hearing no for the first time feels like being Hitler.

• 9:20Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:20Speaker 04

  Yeah. If you're surrounded by yes men, yeah.

• 9:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, it does. It does. It does. And then if you're surrounded by no men forever and you hear, you hear your first yes, it changes you.

• 9:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:31Speaker 05

  You know, it changes you in a much less funny way.

• 9:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:34Speaker 05

  You know, I don't have a bit prepared for that, but you know, it's a different experience, you know?

• 9:40Speaker 04

  Do you feel like you have a lot of yes men or no men in your life?

• 9:44Speaker 05

  I, I think I have almost exclusively no men in my life. And it's, and it's great. It's a great thing. Yeah. I think, um, I think you're supposed to have people in your life that are like, you don't do that.

• 9:58Speaker 04

  Don't do that.

• 9:58Speaker 05

  You're not that guy.

• 9:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:00Speaker 05

  You know what I mean? And it's not to say that like they're discouraging. It's just to remind, I feel like you need to be reminded of like, who you are every now and then.

• 10:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:11Speaker 05

  I lived alone for like two years and like, I think you live, you leave that experience feeling like I could be anybody. I could, I have, nobody's seen me for, for two years. I could be, I could be any guy.

• 10:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:25Speaker 05

  You know?

• 10:25Speaker 04

  They don't know what's happened. Yeah.

• 10:26Speaker 05

  They have no clue. They don't know what's going on in here.

• 10:31Speaker 05

  You know?

• 10:31Speaker 04

  In my lair, my den.

• 10:33Speaker 05

  They don't know what links I got.

• 10:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:34Speaker 05

  They don't know what I'm clicking.

• 10:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:36Speaker 05

  You know?

• 10:36Speaker 04

  What I'm clicking?

• 10:38Speaker 05

  You know what I mean?

• 10:39Speaker 04

  They don't know what I'm clicking.

• 10:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, I feel like if you're living in the real world and you got, you got your like reasonable no people around you.

• 10:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:47Speaker 05

  Then you got, you got somebody to be like, hey, you, you were not on that yesterday.

• 10:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:53Speaker 05

  Don't suddenly be on that today, you know?

• 10:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, I guess maybe that would be not, anybody who's ever said no to me, I fired them or cut them off.

• 11:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, and that's gonna change you in a crazy way.

• 11:03Speaker 04

  It already has.

• 11:04Speaker 05

  Well.

• 11:05Speaker 04

  I've become a bad guy.

• 11:07Speaker 05

  And you know what? Maybe I met you as a bad guy and I don't know what a bad guy looks like.

• 11:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:12Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 11:12Speaker 04

  So you're in on the illusion.

• 11:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, so I'm like, I met you at this point.

• 11:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:16Speaker 05

  And so my, my, my character judgment is just.

• 11:19Speaker 04

  Do you think you're a good judge of character?

• 11:21Speaker 05

  I think generally, yes.

• 11:22Speaker 04

  I think you are.

• 11:23Speaker 05

  But if I, if I, if I meet you at the wrong time, who knows?

• 11:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:29Speaker 05

  You know?

• 11:30Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 11:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm a great judge of character. That being said?

• 11:37Speaker 04

  Who knows?

• 11:38Speaker 05

  I think, I think everybody could, I think everybody has a window in their life where they can kind of reset.

• 11:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:44Speaker 05

  You know what I mean? Where you can like gather new people around you and they can't tell for a little bit.

• 11:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:50Speaker 05

  You know what I mean?

• 11:50Speaker 04

  I think that's true.

• 11:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 11:51Speaker 04

  So deception is real.

• 11:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, so I think, I think I'm a good judge of character, but I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of good judges of good judges of character.

• 12:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:02Speaker 05

  You can, like you can spot who is a good judge of character and you can know not, not to be around that person, if that makes sense.

• 12:08Speaker 04

  You can spot who's a good judge of character and you can know not to, you're saying if, okay, okay.

• 12:12Speaker 05

  If you're a bad guy.

• 12:13Speaker 04

  Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 12:14Speaker 05

  You can spot who can tell.

• 12:16Speaker 04

  And you stay away from them.

• 12:17Speaker 05

  And you stay away from those people.

• 12:17Speaker 04

  Cause you don't want to be found out.

• 12:18Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 12:19Speaker 04

  Yes, I'm with you 100%.

• 12:20Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 12:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, that makes sense to me.

• 12:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, that makes sense to me. Yeah, I think I'm a good judge of character. I have been snowed very rarely, but when I got snowed, it hurt.

• 12:29Speaker 05

  What does that mean to be snowed?

• 12:30Speaker 04

  To get snowed, like to get the wool pulled over my eyes.

• 12:32Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 12:33Speaker 04

  I've been tricked.

• 12:34Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 12:34Speaker 04

  Or bamboozled.

• 12:35Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 12:36Speaker 04

  Very rarely by people.

• 12:37Speaker 05

  Hoodwinked.

• 12:37Speaker 04

  Hoodwinked.

• 12:38Speaker 05

  Let us stray.

• 12:40Speaker 04

  Let us stray. Let us stray. Bamboozled. Run amok, fooled. Uh, what else is there?

• 12:48Speaker 05

  You just pull up Malcolm X's autobiography.

• 12:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, would you mind?

• 12:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, but I, the couple of times it's happened to me, it's hurt deeply because I don't view myself as someone who that happens to.

• 12:58Speaker 05

  Right.

• 12:58Speaker 04

  You know?

• 12:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, yes.

• 13:01Speaker 04

  And I don't want it to happen again.

• 13:03Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 13:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:04Speaker 05

  Won't get fooled again.

• 13:04Speaker 04

  I won't get, well, fool me once. What's that George Bush quote?

• 13:07Speaker 05

  Fool me once.

• 13:08Speaker 06

  It's a fool me once, shame on you.

• 13:12Speaker 05

  Fool me twice.

• 13:13Speaker 06

  Fool me twice.

• 13:14Speaker 05

  Well, you, you, you can't get fooled again.

• 13:16Speaker 04

  Was it, did J. Cole sample that? Who, who?

• 13:18Speaker 06

  Something like that.

• 13:19Speaker 04

  It, it, really one of his most iconic quotes, Bush. Uh, yeah, Malcolm X, what a guy. So what, what?

• 13:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, you didn't, you didn't, you didn't need to really do that. You didn't really need to.

• 13:30Speaker 04

  We take guest requests seriously on this show.

• 13:32Speaker 05

  All right, well.

• 13:33Speaker 04

  Whatever you need. Uh.

• 13:37Speaker 04

  You, have you been doing stand up lately?

• 13:39Speaker 05

  I have been, I've been doing a little bit of stand up recently. I, um, maybe this is why this has been an inside year for me. I taped, uh, I taped an hour in February.

• 13:49Speaker 04

  Congratulations.

• 13:50Speaker 05

  Thank you. Um, and just have not been able to do anything until it's done.

• 13:57Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 13:57Speaker 05

  You know?

• 13:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:58Speaker 05

  You know, sometimes you're just like, I gotta finish the project or else I, I can never move on.

• 14:03Speaker 04

  I wish I had that quality. That sounds like an amazing quality to have.

• 14:06Speaker 05

  Well, I think it's ADHD is what it is.

• 14:09Speaker 04

  Is it? Okay.

• 14:10Speaker 05

  Yeah. And so I'm, I've just been like, this thing has to be out in the world because I feel like it also informs everything that I'm gonna write from this point. If that makes, you know?

• 14:22Speaker 04

  It does.

• 14:23Speaker 05

  It feels like the, um, The way I went into it was like, this is this, this is the special that is going to establish, what my voice is, or what I, what I believe my voice to be.

• 14:38Speaker 05

  And after this point, don't ask me no fucking questions about what my jokes are about. Cause I'm not, I'm not doing your little, I'm not talking about, uh, how you can't say nothing no more.

• 14:49Speaker 05

  Cause you can.

• 14:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:50Speaker 05

  You can say something some more.

• 14:52Speaker 04

  And you can reference the work.

• 14:53Speaker 05

  You can, yeah.

• 14:54Speaker 04

  I have a piece that you can reference, that this is how I feel about stuff.

• 14:58Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 14:58Speaker 04

  And it's the foundation of the things I'll do moving forward.

• 15:00Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 15:01Speaker 04

  What is, what's, where are you at with, in the process?

• 15:04Speaker 05

  I have accepted that I'm not a good editor myself. I did most of the rough cut, and I passed it off to a friend who actually knows what, uh, what they're doing. So hopefully it'll be done by the end of the month.

• 15:18Speaker 04

  Nice.

• 15:19Speaker 05

  If not, early next year.

• 15:21Speaker 04

  Where, do you know where it's gonna live yet?

• 15:22Speaker 05

  It's gonna live on YouTube.

• 15:23Speaker 04

  Hell yeah. I love that.

• 15:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:25Speaker 04

  So you're, the plan is to put it out 2026?

• 15:29Speaker 05

  The very rough plan is just within the next month.

• 15:32Speaker 04

  Oh, oh, put it out in the next month?

• 15:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:34Speaker 04

  Oh, hell yeah. I mean, I knew it would be done, but I didn't know if we were gonna like, put it out. Fuck yeah, let's go.

• 15:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I can't sit on it anymore.

• 15:40Speaker 04

  That's exciting.

• 15:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:42Speaker 04

  I'm excited for that.

• 15:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, thank you.

• 15:43Speaker 04

  I can't wait. Everybody have to go watch. Everybody mark your calendars. Some point, this thing will come out and you have to go watch it.

• 15:49Speaker 05

  Yeah. I, uh, I don't know if I, I think maybe I said the name publicly somewhere. I don't, but I don't know where, but it's called Fatherless Behavior.

• 15:56Speaker 04

  Fatherless Behavior?

• 15:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:58Speaker 04

  Cool. I can't wait to see it. I'm excited. Where'd you film it?

• 16:01Speaker 05

  Union Hall.

• 16:02Speaker 04

  Hell yeah. Union Hall is, uh, um, of this like, interesting, I didn't, I started out in Chicago, uh, doing comedy, and so like, there was this big thing that you would hope for, for a couple of years, when you were like, starting out in Chicago, which is like, man, someday when I can like, get venues in New York to book me. Which is, at first, you know, you're nowhere near that, but then you start to get a little bit of traction. You think like, man, if I got the right lineup, I could maybe get like, half the room full at Union Hall. And it's this really, Union Hall is this place that's like, so exciting.

• 16:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 16:35Speaker 04

  To like go, and then you get here and it, I kind of wondered like, oh, now that I, I don't really play like venues that small as often anymore, is it something that'll like, fall out for me mentally? And it actually is such like a touch point of the community.

• 16:49Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah, it is. I think it, and I think it kinda... Always will be, if that makes sense, like, I don't think anybody grows out of it.

• 16:58Speaker 04

  No.

• 16:58Speaker 05

  You know, David Cross still runs his hour there.

• 17:03Speaker 05

  However frequently he runs a new hour.

• 17:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:05Speaker 05

  You know, like, I, I don't think anybody ever gets too big to go back there.

• 17:10Speaker 04

  It's my favorite place to perform.

• 17:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's so fun.

• 17:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, I love running into buddies, I love seeing shows there.

• 17:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 17:16Speaker 04

  I'd love to film something there someday, like, I just think it's the best.

• 17:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's just like, there are, there are rare, like,

• 17:26Speaker 05

  perfect venues, and I'm not, you know, the clientele upstairs pisses me off. I don't, I don't like the people that hang out there, if I'm being honest.

• 17:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:35Speaker 05

  But like, just in terms of shape.

• 17:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:38Speaker 05

  In terms of like, room shape.

• 17:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:41Speaker 05

  It's such a perfect room, just like, the perfect, like, low ceilings, and I feel like, you know, every time I go, every time I do a show there, that's like, my own show, just because I look at Park Slope, the, the neighborhood itself, and I feel like, these are not my people.

• 17:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:59Speaker 05

  But then I feel like, when I, when I put on my own show at Union Hall, like, somehow, somehow, my people show up.

• 18:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:06Speaker 05

  You know, it's just like, I, I don't know, it feels like a room that you can really, like, mold to whatever experience you want to have.

• 18:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, you're not subject to the neighborhood as much, it feels like your people will come and fill that basement for you.

• 18:18Speaker 05

  Right.

• 18:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:18Speaker 05

  Right, it's, it's like, it's just, it's great.

• 18:22Speaker 04

  Did you, you're from Atlanta.

• 18:23Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:24Speaker 04

  And you went to school, you went to Emory?

• 18:26Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 18:26Speaker 04

  And you studied psychology?

• 18:28Speaker 05

  Studied psychology.

• 18:29Speaker 04

  When you were in school, uh, in Atlanta, had you started comedy yet? Like, when did you, I don't think I know when you started.

• 18:35Speaker 05

  I started comedy when I was, uh, a junior in college. Or it was, it was the summer before my junior year, so, yeah.

• 18:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:43Speaker 05

  I was like, twenty.

• 18:46Speaker 05

  And I think I only started that late because um I went to the other campus in Emory, which is in Covington. And so that there just wasn't a lot of places to do stand up.

• 18:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:58Speaker 05

  I did, I did it the first time when I was eighteen at Laughing School. Not true. I did it the first time when I was twelve.

• 19:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:05Speaker 05

  Um, and then as an adult, Laughing School at eighteen, and then I didn't do it again for two years. Um, so I was, I was doing stand up the last two years I was in college. And moved to LA immediately after I graduated, which was, I won't say a bad decision because I gained a bunch of, you know, life experience from it. Did a lot of things that I wouldn't have done otherwise, but um it's not a city that I ever want to live in again in my life.

• 19:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:38Speaker 05

  So, yeah.

• 19:39Speaker 04

  And then you came out here.

• 19:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 19:40Speaker 04

  Yeah. That's interesting. Why did you, what do you think, why, okay, so why did you do stand up when you were eighteen and then, and then not do it for two years? Like, were you just busy with school or what was the?

• 19:52Speaker 05

  I was, I was, it was partly that I was busy with school and part of me thought that I just wanted to try it. Um, cause I was the, I was the guy that was always like, like in school, just everybody's like, oh, you're so funny. You should try, you should do stand up one.

• 20:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 20:06Speaker 05

  And so it felt like, it felt like a thing that like, I should, I should do it just to say I did it, you know? Um, and I didn't really think I was gonna do it again. And then I, once I was like, close enough to it, it felt like, oh, I've wanted to do this since I was a child.

• 20:24Speaker 04

  Might as well.

• 20:25Speaker 05

  I wrote book reports about, about Eddie Murphy. Like, what are you talking about? Why would you ever think you didn't want to do this?

• 20:31Speaker 04

  Book reports on Eddie Murphy is iconic.

• 20:33Speaker 05

  Yeah. You know, you know, those like little, those little like biographies this thing you would get at the school library?

• 20:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 20:40Speaker 05

  Like, I just got, I just checked one of those out and did a book report on that.

• 20:44Speaker 04

  Hell, yeah. That rocks. Have you met him?

• 20:47Speaker 05

  I have never met Eddie Murphy.

• 20:49Speaker 04

  Damn.

• 20:49Speaker 05

  You know, um.

• 20:52Speaker 05

  I don't know why I said that, like, I expected to.

• 20:55Speaker 04

  I feel like, I feel like you would have met Eddie Murphy by now.

• 20:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 20:58Speaker 04

  He's around?

• 21:00Speaker 05

  He's, he's not.

• 21:01Speaker 04

  He's making movies again?

• 21:02Speaker 05

  He's one of the most unaround people.

• 21:04Speaker 04

  You're really right.

• 21:05Speaker 05

  In black comedy.

• 21:06Speaker 04

  You're really right. He's not really coming around at all.

• 21:08Speaker 05

  I met George Wallace. You like George Wallace?

• 21:10Speaker 04

  I do like George Wallace.

• 21:11Speaker 05

  He's a great guy.

• 21:12Speaker 04

  One of the greatest Twitters in the history of Twitter.

• 21:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 21:15Speaker 04

  He really made that whole platform his own.

• 21:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, genuinely one of the funniest people I've ever seen.

• 21:20Speaker 04

  Where'd you meet him?

• 21:22Speaker 05

  I've met him a couple of times in Atlanta. Last time I saw him was at Gotham.

• 21:28Speaker 05

  The one time I've performed there.

• 21:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:31Speaker 05

  Weirdly enough, Gotham got a new backdrop on the stage in like 2017 that I helped install. Cause I was working, uh, cause I do like set carpentry stuff. Didn't perform there for like five years after that.

• 21:50Speaker 05

  And on the night that I was there, George Wallace, Jim Gaffigan, and Jerry Seinfeld all walked in while I was on stage. All told me I had a good set, which was cool. And then, uh, I think Seinfeld was supposed to follow me and I took great pleasure in being able to say, hey, man, uh, I would love to stick around and watch you, but I got another show. Bye.

• 22:15Speaker 04

  Hey dude, best of luck. Keep at it. I got another set.

• 22:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'm sure it would be a very regular set.

• 22:24Speaker 05

  But yeah.

• 22:24Speaker 04

  Who were your, uh, like when you were, I mean, obviously Eddie Murphy, who, who else were your, your like people when you were like, uh, growing up and coming into comedy?

• 22:35Speaker 05

  Richard Pryor was like my, my absolute favorite, I think. Which is very easy to say, obviously, but like, I, I remember when I was in college, I had, I had no wifi at my, at my apartment and my, at my dad's place where I would go to visit. So I would just like, whenever I would go to my mom's house, I would download whatever movies I could and then take it back to, or just like, save them onto my little, my PlayStation and watch them whenever I, and so the movies I had were The Prestige. And then I had Richard Pryor, Live on Sunset Strip. So I've seen both of those like 30 times.

• 23:18Speaker 05

  And actually, the funniest line of the two is in the prestige.

• 23:24Speaker 05

  There's the scene where he's, you know, David Bowie is Nikola Tesla. And he's like, they're, they're testing this, this cloning device. That can clone not just organic matter, but, but also inorganic matter. And they make a bunch of copies of, of Hugh Jackman's hat.

• 23:46Speaker 05

  To test this cloning machine that he's using to fake like a teleportation device.

• 23:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:51Speaker 05

  And he goes out into this field with like dozens of the same hat, just like have been transported, have been cloned and transported out to this field. And, and Hugh Jackman goes, oh, which one is mine? And then David Bowie goes, they're all your hat, Mr. Angier.

• 24:15Speaker 04

  That's the big one?

• 24:19Speaker 05

  It's so funny to me and I don't know why. To this day, I don't know why it's so funny to me.

• 24:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 24:24Speaker 05

  But I think it's just the word hat.

• 24:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 24:28Speaker 05

  But also the, the fact that he had to say the word hat in the first place, like you see all these hats.

• 24:39Speaker 05

  It's like, in case you thought, you forgot we were talking about a hat. They're all your hat.

• 24:44Speaker 04

  That's, that is very funny.

• 24:47Speaker 05

  I don't know, I, I, I've done stand up for 13 years and in all that time, it has taken me

• 24:57Speaker 05

  so much energy to resist the fact that I'm ultimately a pun guy. I love puns so much. I love, I love stupid wordplay. And that I feel like falls into that category.

• 25:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 25:07Speaker 05

  Cup, I think is the funniest word of all time.

• 25:10Speaker 04

  Cup is a good one.

• 25:11Speaker 05

  Cup is a great word.

• 25:11Speaker 04

  It's the hard sounds.

• 25:12Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 25:13Speaker 04

  It's the C and the P of it all.

• 25:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 25:14Speaker 04

  And yeah, and the, yeah, yeah.

• 25:16Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 25:17Speaker 04

  I love, Richard Pryor was a favorite of mine growing up as well. And I actually just for the first time read, have you ever read the Hilton Als essay on Richard Pryor? That's in White Girls?

• 25:27Speaker 05

  No, I have not.

• 25:28Speaker 04

  It's really good. I just read it for the first time and I, yeah, I had never read something so, like I, I've seen a lot of Richard Pryor growing up. My dad showed me a lot of Richard Pryor. And I've always loved his work, but I hadn't ever read something so.

• 25:45Speaker 04

  Like thorough and kind of, I don't know about beautiful, but thorough and like care careful about him. It was really, really, really well done. That whole book is great, but the essay on Richard Pryor, I think you might like.

• 25:57Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 25:58Speaker 04

  It was great.

• 25:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, I would love that if you, if you sent that to me.

• 26:01Speaker 04

  I'll send it to you. I'll make it happen. I'll, I'll just give you the book. I'll, I'll, um, I'll bring it over to you.

• 26:06Speaker 05

  Oh, thank you. Um, yeah, he has one of my, one of my favorite bits ever in that special is, um, I, I just love the way he is really great at like personifying inanimate objects and like animals and things like that. Like his bit where his wife is leaving him and, uh, she's like, she's like getting in the car to drive away and he's like, uh, you not leaving me in this motherfucker, you ain't. And he shoots the tire and the tire goes, ah. But he has this great bit about how his, uh, he had, he had these two pet monkeys. He got one originally and the monkey would just like try to fuck everybody and everything, you know, cause the monkey was too horny.

• 26:51Speaker 05

  So he got it a grow monkey so they could go out and fuck in the trees or whatever when the, when the monkey was lonely. And, um, and then the monkeys died. Um, I forget, I forget what happened. I think it was like a carbon monoxide, like poisoning thing and they both died and he was really sad about it. And there was this dog that lived next door that saw him, the dog saw him sulking in his yard and he just jumps over the fence and he goes, hey, what's wrong, Richard? He goes, my monkeys died, man. He goes, oh man, you mean them little monkeys that used to be fucking up in the trees, man? I was gonna eat them too, man. And, and he's just like, man, I'm, I'm sad, man. I miss my monkeys.

• 27:35Speaker 05

  And he goes, well, Richard, it's gonna be okay, man. You know, you just gotta keep your chin up, Richard, you know? And he hops back over the fence and then, uh, he turns back around as he's walking away and goes, now you know I'm gonna be chasing you again tomorrow, Richard.

• 27:55Speaker 04

  A brief mea culpa, a moment of allyship. But tomorrow it's back on.

• 28:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:03Speaker 00

  Ugh, I hate Mondays.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  King's Hawaiian cinnamon swirl bite?

• 28:06Speaker 00

  Uh, Taylor Hanson? Sure, I'll try one.

• 28:09Speaker 01

  Mmm.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  Hey, let's get back to work, please.

• 28:14Speaker 00

  But Taylor Hanson's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites.

• 28:18Speaker 02

  Taylor Hanson? Nice.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  Try one.

• 28:21Speaker 02

  Mmm.

• 28:25Speaker 00

  King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites. There's nothing like it.

• 28:33Speaker 04

  Him and, uh, um, Pryor and Carlin are both so interesting to me because they like, they both came up doing like, almost like Borgspel, like, clean,

• 28:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:44Speaker 04

  suit and tie type of rooms.

• 28:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:46Speaker 04

  And then they both like, basically had like, they hit breaking points and were like, I can't fucking do this anymore.

• 28:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:52Speaker 04

  And both then evolved into like, their actual act.

• 28:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:56Speaker 04

  And I'm so fascinated by both of them having that path.

• 29:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, I, I think it must have been just the era, you know? They both came up in the, in the sixties. Pryor kinda wanted to be Bill Cosby, in a way. Carlin just kinda coming up like, got successful really early, you know? And I, I think about that a lot because, um, in some ways I had a similar trajectory. Not that I was like, that successful, but like, I was on TV, I was in writers' rooms and stuff like that. And I, I do think about like, the guy I could have been, had I just like, kept my head down and never thought about, about anything and just like, I, I get it.

• 29:42Speaker 05

  I get it, especially being, especially being like, that guy, like, as Vietnam is starting and like, just the world feels like it's... Getting shaken at its core, people are questioning like very fundamental things about like the about America as an institution.

• 30:03Speaker 05

  You know, I, I, I think I would question more the people that like just kind of stuck to what they were doing, you know? And just like kept their head down, never, never said anything, you know?

• 30:14Speaker 04

  That was all the advice too, like that was the, the advice that they both got, the, the big advice for, I was in this essay, I was talking about the big advice for Richard was like, if you want to be black and make it, be, be Cosby.

• 30:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:25Speaker 04

  Like just keep, keep it cool, do, do the sweaters, do the like tame thing for the white audiences.

• 30:31Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:32Speaker 04

  And for both of them, way more radically, obviously for prior, but like for both of them to choose to talk about actual shit and to break out of that thing that like, they probably could have made a pretty decent living for the rest of their lives, just doing that. But they would have like, it would have meant nothing, it would have mattered not at all.

• 30:49Speaker 05

  Right.

• 30:50Speaker 04

  Their work would have died with them.

• 30:51Speaker 05

  Right.

• 30:52Speaker 04

  And now they're going to live on as legends forever because they actually decided to pay attention and give a shit. And I think that's so interesting and applicable, applicable to right now because I'm so bored and disappointed by so many people that are just kind of like cashing in and keeping it tame right now.

• 31:10Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 31:11Speaker 04

  When I'm like, the, everything is so bad and could be so, you could be making such better jokes.

• 31:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 31:17Speaker 04

  And you're just like putting it right down the middle so that you don't lose any brand deals or whatever.

• 31:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 31:21Speaker 04

  And I'm fucking bored.

• 31:23Speaker 05

  Yeah. And you know what I, um, I've struggled to, to like escape the feeling that it's in the nature of comedy as it is to do that. Just because comedy did, like it didn't have to be this way, but it was born out of capitalism. It was, it exists because vaudeville was too expensive.

• 31:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:46Speaker 05

  You know, uh, and people were just like, well, what if one guy stood on a stage with a microphone by himself?

• 31:52Speaker 04

  What if there was no overhead?

• 31:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's literally that. And everybody's like, yeah, nobody wants to fucking see that.

• 31:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:58Speaker 05

  At first. Um, and then, you know, people got better at it and it started to look like a thing that could be marketable. But even now, like the, the comedy booms as they've happened, they've sort of like. Happened as the economy booms also, it's sort of, I don't know, just ebbs and flows with capitalism as it is. And so it, it does make sense in a way that people do that, but like, it ju- it is really disappointing to watch that like,

• 32:30Speaker 05

  uh, that people are content to sort of live unexamined and not really thi- and I don't know, I, I, I think part of it is like, you know, I, I, I got a lot of perspective because like I, I did get a little bit, um, fed up at one point and I ju- I just started playing music again. I started playing bass and I was just going to jams a lot, pretty much all last year. And just gaining perspective about what like preparation looks like as an artist, realizing like, so much of the preparation hap- happens offstage, all the serious stuff happens offstage.

• 33:10Speaker 05

  Um, and you, I forget who said, I think maybe it was Frank Zappa that said like, you know, the, like, he put out a lot of silly ass music.

• 33:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:19Speaker 05

  And it's like, yeah, the, the, there's a silly element to it, but like the music itself is deadly serious.

• 33:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:27Speaker 05

  You know, and I think because the nature of performing comedy, it just feels like it's a fucking joke all the time. It feels like you just know how to do it and nobody really wants to do the, the difficult prep work required to like say something new. You know, nobody wants to actually, nobody wants to question their worldview. Nobody wants to read a fucking book that challenges anything they believe in already.

• 33:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:52Speaker 05

  And the easy way to do comedy is just play to what everybody fucking knows already, you know, and it's, it's just not interesting to me. It's so fucking boring. And, you know, it just, it-

• 34:10Speaker 05

  I don't know. I think comics also sit in this, in this space of like, not knowing, not knowing if we're important or not.

• 34:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:19Speaker 05

  You know? Because in many ways, like you look at Chappelle, for example, and like putting, putting out four specials back to back, just like railing on trans people for no, for no reason. As you get this rise in transphobic sentiment in policy and on the ground, just like person to person and like, you wonder how much of an influence he has on it and I'm, and when that was happening, I, I was sort of of the mind that like, maybe he's influencing that, like his work is pushing this narrative forward. And now I'm just like, it feels like it's a lot more pathetic to me that like,

• 35:00Speaker 05

  y'all are really, y'all are really just riding the wave of what's already happening.

• 35:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:05Speaker 05

  You're not even like pushing, you're not even pushing the negative part forward. You're just riding, you're just coasting on, on bullshit that's already happening.

• 35:15Speaker 04

  You're truly just trying that hard to have a good set. It is more pathetic, yeah.

• 35:19Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 35:20Speaker 04

  Cause we all know, every comic knows, when you're preparing a set and when you're thinking, you're like, yeah, I'd like to kill tonight. I'd like to do great on my buddy's show if I'm dropping in or I'd like to, I'm doing a headlining set. The pressure's, pressure's even harder or bigger, more intense that you're like, I know, I'll write a joke sometimes that I'm like, this is not very good, but it'll kill.

• 35:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 35:36Speaker 04

  You know, and, and I, sometimes I say it and sometimes I don't, but like, that is the more pathetic thing actually, is that when Chappelle's doing shit like that, he actually does know better. And he actually is just that desperate to kill.

• 35:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 35:50Speaker 04

  And the sad part about it is he's smarter and better than that. Like he could kill without it.

• 35:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 35:54Speaker 04

  But he's just riding the moment.

• 35:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 35:56Speaker 04

  Which sucks.

• 35:57Speaker 05

  Yeah. And it's really sad to like, to look at somebody that like, I idolized as a kid. That was one of my, one of my heroes, you know? Especially in terms of like this legacy of, of like Osbeeta Pryor to Murphy to, Paul Mooney to him.

• 36:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 36:15Speaker 05

  You know, it's like, he's like one of the six guys. That's really significant in terms of like, in terms of black comedy. And I don't know, it's just such a sad thing to watch go down.

• 36:32Speaker 05

  Fully lost my train of thought.

• 36:33Speaker 04

  You were about to fix comedy?

• 36:35Speaker 05

  Oh, right, right, right, right.

• 36:38Speaker 04

  And I was like, ready to, I'm like, ready to support and join in.

• 36:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 36:45Speaker 05

  Right, right, right, right, right. The daunting weight of intelligence.

• 36:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 36:53Speaker 04

  Well, this heartbreaking work of staggering genius is what we were about to do together.

• 36:57Speaker 05

  Right, what's the Nicolas Cage movie?

• 36:59Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, um, oh, the, what is that, Nicolas? He just did it, it was a really funny one, actually. It was like the pressure, the immense pressure of-

• 37:07Speaker 05

  The unbearable weight of massive talent.

• 37:08Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 37:09Speaker 05

  Yes, yes.

• 37:09Speaker 04

  That's what we were in the middle of.

• 37:11Speaker 05

  That's what we were in the middle of. The unbearable weight of massive talent.

• 37:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 37:18Speaker 00

  I hate Mondays.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  King's Hawaiian cinnamon swirl bite?

• 37:21Speaker 00

  Taylor Hansen? Sure, I'll try one.

• 37:24Speaker 01

  Mmm.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  Hey, let's get back to work, please.

• 37:28Speaker 00

  But Taylor Hansen's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites.

• 37:33Speaker 02

  Taylor Hansen? Nice.

• 37:35Speaker 01

  Try one.

• 37:36Speaker 02

  Mmm.

• 37:40Speaker 00

  King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites. There's nothing like it.

• 37:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, um, I, yeah, I, I don't know. I, I, I feel like, um, I can't help but feel that stand-up comedy is not really gonna change until we sort of- Stand-up and art in general is not really gonna change until we figure out how to remove the, um,

• 38:11Speaker 05

  the like, yoke of capital from it.

• 38:17Speaker 05

  That makes sense? Like, I don't know, the, um, what I've been trying to do with my special is like,

• 38:26Speaker 05

  and what I would like to be able to do going forward is like, not- Not have it be a situation of like, here's this piece of art, you pay for this. I'd much rather, I'd much rather put myself in a situation where like, hey, I gotta, I gotta exist the whole time between these things. So like, if you got a couple of dollars a month, just like, throw it my way so that I can not have to stress about rent till the next one.

• 38:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 38:58Speaker 05

  You know, and just not be in a position where I'm like, where I have to take whatever the fuck comes my way. Between now and then, and I can really like focus on the thing. I just, I don't know, I just feel like there has to be,

• 39:17Speaker 05

  there has to be some type of way to organize this thing economically. Where, you know, we're not blowing up on Twitter every six months because our heroes went to Saudi Arabia for, for a weekend.

• 39:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:32Speaker 05

  You know, and like,

• 39:35Speaker 05

  or where like, everybody's funny until they get rich and then they're not.

• 39:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:41Speaker 05

  You know?

• 39:44Speaker 05

  It just feels like it's, it's sort of set up in this like pretty predictable boom and bust cycle. Just like capitalism. Where like, everybody gets a bag and then they stop being relatable. And then they whine about how nobody thinks they're funny anymore. And, and then they get canceled and then we, and like can't eat anymore. Because we've attached them being a shitty person to their ability to generate revenue. You know?

• 40:16Speaker 05

  It just, it just, it feels like it's so, it feels like such an obvious like,

• 40:23Speaker 05

  An obviously flawed model that we refuse to do anything about.

• 40:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, there's been, there's interesting, interesting thing happening lately that's been causing me to think a lot about that is like, I, there's been this,

• 40:37Speaker 04

  like, sometimes the lefty, like, political accounts will clip this show and put it out and be like, look, the podcasters are talking about this or whatever. I'm like, go nuts, whatever, if it helps the cause, but they, they re-clipped something recently about me talking about, we turned down AI deals on this show. And Rockon said it and left it in the episode for a reason, but then there's this interesting thing where people are like, using it to attack anyone who's ever done an AI deal. And I'm like, I'm actually not so interested in that. I, I don't want to be, I don't know everyone's finances. I don't know everyone's situation. I don't know, there's so many things I don't know. And when I say something like that on this show, that I'm like, you know, we don't do deals with AI, or we don't do deals with gambling, or whatever the situation is.

• 41:23Speaker 04

  It's not because I think I'm existing ethically under capitalism. I'm certainly not. I don't, none of us get to. I still take money from bad places. And I'm still involved in the process, but I just wish that more people who had the opportunity to think about these things wouldn't just like, it's almost like you talk to people in this business and they're like, well, it's $500,000. I couldn't say no. And it's like, well,

• 41:46Speaker 05

  You could.

• 41:46Speaker 04

  I think you could have, because if you're making the kind of money I suspect that you're making, I think you easily could have.

• 41:52Speaker 05

  Like, I think actually, I, I couldn't say no.

• 41:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of people couldn't say no.

• 41:56Speaker 05

  You could have said no.

• 41:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's the thing. And then, yeah, and then it's, I, yeah, I got like, uh, there was a group of people online who were mad at me about that same thing that they were like, that it's the, it's the privileged person take to tell people to turn that down. And I'm like, well, no, I'm not telling you, random Twitter user to turn it down. I'm saying, why shouldn't I? If I know that my bills are paid without it. I just, I don't, I, there's this thing that happens, I think, where, when we're having these conversations about like, the, the nexus of like, being an artist and, uh, trying to be like a, Somewhat moral, like principled person who exists in the world doing that stuff and also

• 42:36Speaker 04

  existing under capitalism, the way that we all are, trying to figure out how that all melds together. I feel like this thing happens where it's like, anything you say is supposed to be a prescription for everybody.

• 42:47Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 42:47Speaker 04

  And I'm like, no, I'm just, I just wish we would all ask a little bit more questions is really the only takeaway I have.

• 42:52Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the fact is, we all have to contend with capitalism in some way, you know?

• 42:59Speaker 05

  Like I have, I have the show Jaded Forum that I've been doing for a couple of years that is like, pretty explicitly, I don't like using the term leftist because people, you know, you say that and people think you Democrat.

• 43:14Speaker 04

  You love the Democrats.

• 43:19Speaker 05

  That's low key like my shit.

• 43:21Speaker 04

  Those are your family.

• 43:21Speaker 05

  Those are my guys. Those are my, those are my guys. Fucking Barry and Joe and them.

• 43:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 43:31Speaker 04

  Shout out, they're back there.

• 43:35Speaker 05

  That can take cloth on.

• 43:39Speaker 05

  But yeah, for lack of a better phrase, like it's a pretty explicit, explicitly leftist show, but like,

• 43:47Speaker 05

  I don't know, like we all have our different jobs and different like, different ways of like existing within capitalism, like, you know, like sometimes a guy with a lot of money will show up and like, I don't know, the term class trader exists for a reason. Like you gotta just,

• 44:09Speaker 05

  if they're gonna give you money, no strings attached, and you can like get that in writing, take that money, you know, like,

• 44:17Speaker 05

  I don't know, it's just, it's like you have to, you know, you have to, you have to be ethical. We also have to have the wherewithal to know like when it is and isn't gonna affect you.

• 44:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:28Speaker 05

  You know?

• 44:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:30Speaker 05

  Like, I don't know.

• 44:35Speaker 05

  If you're not asking me to like go and like advertise some bullshit or like put this money towards it. Yeah, I'm taking, give me the money.

• 44:42Speaker 04

  No strings attached money, I'm interested.

• 44:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 44:44Speaker 04

  If anybody out there has no strings attached money for me, give me a call.

• 44:47Speaker 05

  Well, me first.

• 44:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 44:49Speaker 05

  But, yeah.

• 44:50Speaker 04

  Give us both a call.

• 44:51Speaker 05

  Give us both a call.

• 44:52Speaker 04

  What, uh, what is so true to you?

• 44:56Speaker 05

  Oh, what is so true to you? I, I, I think in this era, um,

• 45:04Speaker 05

  a lot of people may, may, may look at everything that's going on in the world and say, humans are looking pretty stupid right now. I think we are too smart for our own good. I think our intelligence is getting in the way of so, so much of what we could achieve just by feeling shit out. You know what I mean?

• 45:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 45:21Speaker 05

  I think, um, I don't know. I think we, we have existed for thousands of years and sort of like the last few hundred years of it. We've just, we just decided, hey, all those like instincts and feelings that you have, those are bullshit.

• 45:38Speaker 04

  Ignore all that.

• 45:38Speaker 05

  Ignore all that. Science.

• 45:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 45:41Speaker 05

  Science. You know, I, maybe a better way to say this is a system of a down lyrics has started to make a lot more sense to me in my adult life.

• 45:51Speaker 05

  I was a big fan in, uh, in middle school and I, and I was just like, when I was just that, that guy. And as I've, as I've gotten older, I realize, oh, they, they might've actually been on to something.

• 46:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:02Speaker 05

  They might've actually been saying, except the drummer, he's a weirdo. But like, you know, as a, as a collective.

• 46:10Speaker 04

  In those types of bands, there's always going to be one guy that you have to go, except for him and his crimes.

• 46:13Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 46:14Speaker 05

  There's, yeah, one guy that just doesn't understand the lyrics of his own.

• 46:20Speaker 05

  Of his own group.

• 46:21Speaker 04

  He was sort of just vibing. He didn't really check in on the meanings or the themes.

• 46:24Speaker 05

  Yeah. I'm on percussion, man. I don't know what you want from me. I'm not, I'm not writing this shit.

• 46:29Speaker 04

  I'm, I've got the beat. Does anyone need anything else from me or are we good?

• 46:31Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 46:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. That's it.

• 46:39Speaker 04

  I love that. So true. That's a great so true.

• 46:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:42Speaker 04

  It's so funny, the so true, uh, the so true segment. You're one of, you're one of a handful of people who actually had a thought prepared, which is lovely. No one, no one comes with one.

• 46:53Speaker 05

  Well, to be fair, I did forget it.

• 46:54Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 46:55Speaker 05

  And then, and then it came back to me briefly.

• 46:58Speaker 05

  And, uh, did I stick the landing in my mind?

• 47:02Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 47:02Speaker 05

  Sure didn't.

• 47:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think you did.

• 47:04Speaker 05

  Hey, thank you.

• 47:05Speaker 04

  What's, uh, what's making you excited right now? What are you looking forward to? What's making you happy?

• 47:09Speaker 05

  Um, you know what? It's really, it's really this, this special and just like, hopefully getting it out very soon. I feel like, um, um, just as far as like,

• 47:22Speaker 05

  and I, I, I want to stress that I don't, I don't want to make it sound like I think these ideas are so important to the world or whatever. But I feel like as far as it's just like what I want to express as a comic. I feel like it's so, um, just so crucial to what I want to do going forward. And just like, um, I don't know. It kind of feels like the, the first step in the rest of my, uh, artistic life in a, in a very meaningful way for me. So I'm really excited about that.

• 47:55Speaker 04

  I love that.

• 47:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:56Speaker 04

  Uh, there's something I know about you that I wanted to ask you about.

• 47:59Speaker 05

  Oh, no.

• 48:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, it's, it's bad. No, you're a big, if I'm not mistaken, you're a big Dragon Ball Z fan.

• 48:06Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 48:07Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 48:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 48:08Speaker 04

  Now, I don't know anything about this and it came up somewhat recently. Was it?

• 48:13Speaker 05

  It was an Ananaya's episode.

• 48:14Speaker 04

  Ananaya. Um, what, how did you get into Dragon Ball Z? And what do I need to know? And where can I start if I'm interested?

• 48:21Speaker 05

  Um, okay, I.

• 48:25Speaker 05

  I got into Dragon Ball Z because every black man on the planet is into Dragon Ball Z.

• 48:30Speaker 04

  So, so that's kinda how.

• 48:32Speaker 05

  That's kinda how that happens. Uh, so maybe in the next life.

• 48:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, no worries.

• 48:40Speaker 05

  Genuinely, one of the, one of very few stereotypes that I will fully embrace is every, every black man, I, I don't, I don't think I've met a black man that doesn't have some relationship with Dragon Ball Z. But, um, the, the access point is, uh, is Toonami, which is like the anime block on Cartoon Network. Uh, from like 97 to mid 2000s, mid to late 2000s. This is like what brought anime to the US, um, in the first place.

• 49:12Speaker 05

  Or like what brought it to the US in a way that wasn't like creepy and orientalist. In the way that a lot of things were, a lot of networks sort of presented it as like, what is this mysterious media from the east?

• 49:27Speaker 05

  Genuinely, they build it like that. It's like, it's cartoons.

• 49:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, we have those.

• 49:32Speaker 05

  They just fuck with Disney like what, I don't know what you want.

• 49:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:36Speaker 05

  But yeah, that's a, that is a, that is a good access point. There is a, um, there are, there have been a lot of, um, like adaptations to like sort of slim it down over the years. Cause the original Dragon Ball Z was, um, like notoriously kinda beefed, padded out.

• 49:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:56Speaker 05

  Uh, in a sense. Um, so if you watch Dragon Ball Z Kai, that's like the, the sort of re-animated one with, or not re-animated, but they cut out all the filler and all this stuff and like, kind of fixed up the dubs and all that.

• 50:10Speaker 04

  Do you, how do you feel about that? Do you like the, the cut down ones or?

• 50:14Speaker 05

  I think there's a very, something very important to the experience of like really sitting through five episodes of somebody charging up.

• 50:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:23Speaker 05

  I think that's a really important part of it.

• 50:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:25Speaker 05

  But I think if you just wanna know what people are talking about, watch Dragon Ball Z Kai.

• 50:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:30Speaker 05

  There's also, um, There's also Dragon Ball Dyma is like the new, the newest iteration that's like, it's kinda just trying to get kids into it, um, cuz it's been around for forty years and that, you know, they just need an entry point to these characters. Um, I don't know if I would recommend that for an adult. I also don't know if I would recommend Dragon Ball in general for an adult.

• 50:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:53Speaker 05

  But, again, if you, if you want, if you want to be involved in the discourse.

• 50:59Speaker 04

  I keep, well, it's just come up now in a number of ways and I'm like, maybe I need to tap in. I'm feeling like there's a big blind spot.

• 51:04Speaker 05

  Well, in what, in what ways does it come up?

• 51:06Speaker 04

  Well, people keep telling me they fucking love it and I'm like, I gotta fucking get involved. I can't have this thing that a bunch of people I know love and I don't know anything about it.

• 51:15Speaker 05

  Well, right. Do you have plans of going to Peru anytime soon?

• 51:18Speaker 04

  I could.

• 51:20Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 51:21Speaker 04

  It's not, hey, look, it's on, there's nothing on the calendar right now, but I could go to Peru. Should I?

• 51:25Speaker 05

  I mean, I'm just, I would just check, cuz if you're feeling that in the US, it's gonna feel way worse in Latin America.

• 51:35Speaker 05

  It's ju- just, uh, Latin American anime love is just on a different level.

• 51:40Speaker 04

  So I need to, before I go to Peru?

• 51:42Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 51:42Speaker 04

  I need to get involved in Dragon Ball Z?

• 51:45Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 51:45Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 51:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, I thi- I think I would recommend Dragon Ball Z Kai. If you're really, if you, if you're really dedicated.

• 51:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:54Speaker 05

  The original Dragon Ball is a little bit shorter.

• 51:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:58Speaker 05

  And it's, it's based on, um, uh, Journey to the West, which is like a Chinese, um, novel, uh, a really old Chinese novel.

• 52:11Speaker 05

  So there's like a, there's, there's like a, an, another entry point that way? Just to get, just to understand like the, the, the characters and such and such. And Dragon Ball Z itself is, it's just like, they kinda just stole Superman.

• 52:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:24Speaker 05

  The story of Superman.

• 52:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 52:26Speaker 04

  Hell, yeah.

• 52:27Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 52:28Speaker 04

  I feel like you read, are you a reader?

• 52:30Speaker 05

  I, I am, I am a reader.

• 52:31Speaker 04

  What, okay, what are, okay, this might be too big of a question and feel free if you hate this to tell me to shut up. But I am, I'm on a big journey right now to get people to tell me like the best books they've ever read. Are there like three books that you're like, you would recommend them to anyone or to me specifically?

• 52:48Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 52:48Speaker 04

  That you're like, you must read these?

• 52:50Speaker 05

  Okay, what is your, what are your goals in reading?

• 52:52Speaker 04

  Fantastic question. I, there is a girl who, uh, works at the bookstore.

• 52:58Speaker 05

  Fight Club.

• 53:04Speaker 04

  There's a girl who works at the bookstore that I go to a lot that's trying to get me more into fiction. Cause I'm historically very like nonfiction essays. That's where I live and love.

• 53:11Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 53:12Speaker 04

  I'm trying to get a little more into fiction. I do love nonfiction. If you've got some good nonfiction recs, I want them. But if you have a fiction that you think a nonfiction guy like me would love, I'm interested.

• 53:23Speaker 05

  Okay. I also have that problem of uh, reading way too much nonfiction.

• 53:27Speaker 04

  Nice.

• 53:28Speaker 05

  And I'm also trying to um, I'm, I've been trying to just like, start with um,

• 53:36Speaker 05

  classics in a sense, but are just like, stuff that just kinda has a hold on like some um, pretty broad group of people, I guess.

• 53:44Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 53:45Speaker 05

  Um, so I'm, um, I started Lord of the Rings recently.

• 53:50Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 53:50Speaker 05

  Um, I really like Ursula Le Guin.

• 53:56Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 53:56Speaker 05

  Who is um, who's a science fiction writer. Um, the, the first book I read of hers was um, was The Dispossessed, which is a really great book about a um, there's two, there's two planets that are sort of in each other's orbit. I don't remember which, if one of, if one is like a moon of the other or not, but as far as the story, it doesn't matter.

• 54:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 54:20Speaker 05

  Um, but one is sort of like a capitalist like planet like ours. And then the other one is like, um, is basically anarchist. And the, there is a scientist from this anarchist planet who invents uh, this thing called the Ansible, which is um, a device that basically um, like cuts the, the time for like interplanetary communication to like milliseconds.

• 54:49Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 54:49Speaker 05

  And she has this whole universe of books that are sort of dealing with the implications of that.

• 54:57Speaker 04

  I'm interested in that.

• 54:58Speaker 05

  It's.

• 54:58Speaker 04

  Her names come up a bunch in my journey.

• 55:00Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 55:01Speaker 04

  By the way.

• 55:01Speaker 05

  She's uh, she's great. She's sort of like um, if you have any like anarchist friends, or if you're familiar with the term social ecology, a lot of people that sit in those uh, worlds bring her up a lot.

• 55:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 55:15Speaker 05

  Um, cause she is, she's like, she's an artist of like, what we're talking about, somebody who's just sort of like very principled and like um,

• 55:25Speaker 05

  Just like really great and expressive and knowledgeable speculative fiction writer.

• 55:30Speaker 04

  Nice.

• 55:32Speaker 05

  And then as far as nonfiction, uh, The Dawn of Everything.

• 55:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm like three fourths of the way through it right now.

• 55:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's a great book.

• 55:41Speaker 04

  Fuck, it's dense.

• 55:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 55:42Speaker 04

  It's he- it's hefty.

• 55:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 55:45Speaker 04

  I'm at school when I'm reading it.

• 55:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, um, it's one of, it's, it's one of those.

• 55:50Speaker 04

  And I like it.

• 55:51Speaker 05

  But, well, since you've heard it, it is, it is also the spiritual successor to a arguably denser and

• 56:01Speaker 05

  uh, arguably definitely denser book called, uh, Ecology of Freedom.

• 56:06Speaker 04

  Ecology of Freedom?

• 56:07Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 56:07Speaker 04

  This one I have not heard of.

• 56:09Speaker 05

  This is, this one is by Murray Bookchin, who's like an old New York anarchist who actually inspired, um, the, uh, leader of the Kurdish, of a Kurdish militia in like the border of Iraq, Syria and Iran, uh, to basically drop his whole nationalist, like ethnic nationalist program and, um, and develop a whole theory of like, called democratic confederalism in the Middle East. And they just like changed up their whole, after being at war with the Turkish government for like thirty years, changed up their whole program.

• 56:46Speaker 04

  He said, you know what? New thing.

• 56:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, basically.

• 56:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, let's go.

• 56:51Speaker 05

  Basically.

• 56:52Speaker 04

  No, fuck it, new thing.

• 56:53Speaker 05

  New thing.

• 56:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:54Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 56:55Speaker 04

  Okay, so Ursula, uh, Dawn of Everything slash Ecology of Freedom?

• 57:00Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 57:01Speaker 04

  Okay, is there anything else I have to tap in on?

• 57:04Speaker 05

  Um, hmm.

• 57:06Speaker 04

  Cause I'm open.

• 57:07Speaker 05

  There, there, there absolutely is.

• 57:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, you're like, no, there's, yeah, there's no other books, man.

• 57:14Speaker 05

  Those are the ones, those are the ones, you got them. Um, I guess, um, I am in, I'm in the middle of reading a book by, uh, that guy who was inspired by Murray Bookchin, who was Abdullah Ergalon. Uh, this book is called, um, Beyond State Power and Violence.

• 57:35Speaker 05

  Um, also really good, really good book. It's just like, um, it sort of details the, the, this juncture of like, sort of the start of like written history. Starting with like, um, epic of Gilgamesh and all this stuff, like these, this mythological epics that talk about the, the histories of, in terms of like these heroic men. It basically frames those as like the beginning of a break from early, like, uh, women centered societies that were sort of centered around, that's some, mm. Look at that timing.

• 58:17Speaker 04

  That's good.

• 58:17Speaker 05

  What a piece of shit.

• 58:18Speaker 04

  Women centered societies, turn it off.

• 58:19Speaker 05

  What a piece of shit.

• 58:21Speaker 04

  Turn it off. Uh, Michelle, will you grab them for me and give us a second? Thank you.

• 58:25Speaker 05

  Um, yeah, it basically frames like the beginning, oh, um, all these epics and like the beginning of monotheistic religion as a break from, um, early like women centered societies that were centered around like, um, communal living and like, and this is what I mean when I say like, uh, when I say we've gotten too smart for our own good and we're like destroying our own instincts with our intelligence.

• 58:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 58:50Speaker 05

  He talks about sort of, um, the, the replacing of, um, of like our communal instincts with like the need for like concrete science and things like that. Um, and how it sort of basically locked us in like this eternal dialectical conflict with the state being like a cumulative, like power-based hierarchical society and this communal-based society that we broke from like 5,000 years ago.

• 59:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 59:24Speaker 05

  Also basically what Dawud of Everything is about and what Ecology of Freedom is about.

• 59:28Speaker 04

  That's what it was reminding me of, yeah.

• 59:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, but.

• 59:30Speaker 04

  I have one more segment for you.

• 59:32Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 59:32Speaker 04

  And I am going to tap in on these books.

• 59:34Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 59:34Speaker 04

  Okay, true or false segment. I'm gonna read you 15 statements. You're gonna tell me as quickly as you can if you think what I just said was true or false.

• 59:39Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 59:39Speaker 04

  If you get 10 or more correct, we're gonna give you 50 US dollars. This is a big, high money game.

• 59:43Speaker 05

  Oh my god.

• 59:44Speaker 04

  Uh, you ready?

• 59:45Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 59:45Speaker 04

  Water boils at 117 degrees Fahrenheit.

• 59:47Speaker 05

  False.

• 59:48Speaker 04

  False, 212. There are no AMC movie theaters in Brooklyn.

• 59:51Speaker 05

  Uh, true.

• 59:52Speaker 04

  True. Sudan has most pyramids of any country.

• 59:55Speaker 05

  Most pyramids?

• 59:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 59:56Speaker 05

  That's true.

• 59:57Speaker 04

  That is true. The John Thomas Carnes family log house is in Winston, Georgia.

• 1:00:01Speaker 05

  Say that one more time.

• 1:00:02Speaker 04

  The John Thomas Karns Family Log House is in Winston, Georgia.

• 1:00:06Speaker 05

  I don't know shit about Winston aside from my mom lives there, so I'm gonna say true.

• 1:00:09Speaker 04

  True. Ringo Starr is not the original drummer for the Beatles.

• 1:00:12Speaker 05

  True.

• 1:00:12Speaker 04

  True. Uranus is the sixth planet from the sun.

• 1:00:15Speaker 05

  Uh, false.

• 1:00:18Speaker 04

  False, it's the seventh. The cricket that lives on King Kai's planet is named Gregory.

• 1:00:22Speaker 05

  True.

• 1:00:23Speaker 04

  True. Walmart is older than Dwayne Reid.

• 1:00:26Speaker 05

  True.

• 1:00:27Speaker 04

  False.

• 1:00:27Speaker 05

  Damn.

• 1:00:27Speaker 04

  Damn, you were on a generational run, dude. One of Emory University's mascots is Dooley the Skeleton.

• 1:00:34Speaker 05

  True.

• 1:00:35Speaker 04

  True. Komodo dragon females can give birth without having mated with a male.

• 1:00:38Speaker 05

  Ooh, I, I, I feel like because the question is in there, it's true.

• 1:00:43Speaker 04

  True. Matches Malone is an alias Clark Kent sometimes uses.

• 1:00:47Speaker 05

  I don't even know, and I wrote, uh, comic books, false.

• 1:00:50Speaker 04

  False, Bruce Wayne. A rainbow can only be seen in the morning or late afternoon.

• 1:00:56Speaker 05

  False.

• 1:00:57Speaker 04

  True. Lego is still releasing new bionicle figures.

• 1:01:01Speaker 05

  Ooh, oh, that's a question for my friend Mamadou. Uh, false.

• 1:01:07Speaker 04

  False, they're discontinued. A group of rhinos is called a smash.

• 1:01:11Speaker 05

  True.

• 1:01:11Speaker 04

  False, a crash. There's only one Shake Shack in Alaska.

• 1:01:16Speaker 05

  True.

• 1:01:16Speaker 04

  False, there are none. How do you do?

• 1:01:17Speaker 05

  Fuck.

• 1:01:18Speaker 06

  Eleven.

• 1:01:19Speaker 04

  Damn, that was a good showing, dude. That was a good showing. Uh, thank you so much for doing it. We love you. We'd love to have you back anytime. Will you tell people where they can find you?

• 1:01:28Speaker 05

  Uh, I am on Instagram, uh, at Yedoye underscore, uh, pretty much everywhere, at Yedoye underscore. Twitter, uh, the threads, all this stuff. Special's gonna be on YouTube. Uh, my social security number is, uh...

• 1:01:47Speaker 04

  Thanks so much for doing it, dude.

• 1:01:48Speaker 05

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:01:49Speaker 04

  It was a delight.

• 1:01:50Speaker 05

  It was a good time.

• 1:01:50Speaker 04

  Yeah. That was a HeadGum Podcast.

• 1:01:54Speaker 00

  Ugh, I hate Mondays.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  King's Hawaiian cinnamon swirl bite?

• 1:01:57Speaker 00

  Taylor Hanson? Sure, I'll try one. Mmm.

• 1:02:03Speaker 02

  Hey, let's get back to work, please.

• 1:02:04Speaker 00

  But Taylor Hanson's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites.

• 1:02:09Speaker 02

  Taylor Hanson? Nice.

• 1:02:11Speaker 01

  Try one.

• 1:02:12Speaker 02

  Mmm.

• 1:02:16Speaker 03

  King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites. There's nothing like it.