Hoja Lopez Returns

Welcome! This week’s guest is the hilarious Hoja Lopez! Hoja and Caleb talk party etiquette, the importance of high quality furniture, queer friendships, caveats, and much more! Join our Substack for ad free full episodes, early access to merch, our community chat, and more! https://calebsaysthings.substack.com/ Hoja! @hojalopez Follow the show! @sooootruepod Follow Caleb! @calebsaysthings Produced by Chance Nichols @chanceisloud Go to https://www. Zocdoc.com/SOTRUE to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today. #sponsored Exclusive $35 off Carver Mat at https://on.auraframes.com/SOTRUE. Promo Code SOTRUE Donate to support Planned Parenthood now at PlannedParenthood.org/Defend To get 15% off your unique gifts this year, go to https://uncommongoods.com/sotrue About Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com. » SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1 » FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum » FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/ » FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum So True is a Headgum podcast, created and hosted by Caleb Hearon. The show is produced by Chance Nichols with Associate Producer Allie Kahan. So True is engineered and edited by Nicole Lyons. Kaiti Moos is our VP of Content at Headgum. Thanks to Luke Rogers for our show art and Virginia Muller our social media manager. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This is a HeadGum Podcast.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  People would really like me when they first met me. And then the relationship would peak at the beginning and eventually every single one of those friendships would. It was like they would get to know me and it was harder to be my friend.

• 0:17Speaker 02

  Why was that?

• 0:18Speaker 01

  You know, I was a big liar and a thief. And, uh, yes.

• 0:26Speaker 02

  Oh, huh?

• 0:27Speaker 01

  Hi!

• 0:28Speaker 02

  What's up, my queen? You gonna pop that water open right at the start?

• 0:31Speaker 01

  I don't know what to do. What to do, oh god! Everybody, watch. I think this can be sexual if you try hard enough. Are you ready?

• 0:37Speaker 02

  I'm feeling turned on. Oh, never mind. You blew it for me personally.

• 0:42Speaker 01

  Woo! Woo! Woo!

• 0:44Speaker 02

  What's going on, dude?

• 0:46Speaker 01

  Oh, my god. There's a word in Spanish called "me desvele", which means that I stayed up late, barely slept, and now I'm here. But I think you did the same thing.

• 0:55Speaker 02

  What? Why were you up late?

• 0:57Speaker 01

  Well, listen, I went to a party last night.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  What party?

• 1:00Speaker 01

  Okay, okay, as my friend first down, very well.

• 1:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04Speaker 01

  But you guys, I was a hit.

• 1:06Speaker 02

  You were a hit?

• 1:07Speaker 01

  I was on fire last night. But I was on fire, but I was also allowing other people to speak. I held court.

• 1:16Speaker 01

  I held court. I really was at my most charismatic yesterday. It was, I really had the time of my life. And then, of course, everyone left and I started to ask, like, what's the median age here? She was like 25.

• 1:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  And I went, oh, they don't know what good is yet. And so, um, I seemed like a shining star.

• 1:36Speaker 02

  They were drawn in by the expertise and wisdom of an older, beautiful woman.

• 1:40Speaker 01

  Exactly right.

• 1:41Speaker 02

  Who knows the world a little bit.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  Who knows the world a bit. I've been through at least two, like, you know, psychosexual threesomes.

• 1:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48Speaker 01

  I've definitely, like, you know, dated a married person.

• 1:52Speaker 02

  Oh, I remember this, yeah.

• 1:53Speaker 01

  I've been through it, yeah.

• 1:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I remember hearing about this.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's huge. There is something so electric about when you go to a party and you're fucking on. Like, hold on.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  I could cry right now. It is, this is my stage and it's a three-bedroom apartment.

• 2:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  In like Humboldt Park and everybody here is obsessed with me. And that's the thing, I'm obsessed back.

• 2:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  You have to be obsessed back.

• 2:18Speaker 02

  I knew what kind of headspace you were in last night when you said I allowed other people to speak.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  I'm like that, because when you're on like that, it's like, I don't really have to see the mic tonight. But a generous, charismatic queen lets the other speak even when she's killing it.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  Absolutely, because also it's, there's a self-interest there. You know that if you keep going, you'll lose it.

• 2:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:38Speaker 01

  You're gonna lose them if you don't let them in.

• 2:40Speaker 02

  God, something to be said about that.

• 2:42Speaker 01

  Absolutely, and the host was so lovely. They did paint marbling, so it was like, everybody brought a piece of paper and then they did like the ink stuff. And then you kind of dip your paper, it's a very seventies sort of craft, but that's what the kids are into. It's crafts at parties.

• 2:58Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:59Speaker 01

  Yes, and.

• 3:00Speaker 02

  Now, why do you think that makes me mad? That made me mad. Why did you think that made me mad?

• 3:05Speaker 01

  I don't know. What dark place is that for you?

• 3:09Speaker 02

  I don't know, like the idea of showing up to a party and someone being like, we're gonna marble paper together. It does, it does upset me a little bit, doesn't it?

• 3:17Speaker 01

  And there was like a corner for it.

• 3:19Speaker 02

  Oh, it was in the corner?

• 3:20Speaker 01

  It was a corner, it wasn't sort of a centrally located marbling sort of setup.

• 3:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  But I've been to parties recently where there's sort of like, there's kind of like rooms that you can go into. And instead of there being like dark sex heroin, it's like, you know, like four guys playing domino together.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  And like reading a book in a corner.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  At the Ba'abang Club?

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it's like, it is kind of the Ba'abang Club, but.

• 3:44Speaker 02

  I think it's only joyful to do a paper craft at the party. I wonder why it upsets me so.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  I do, I think that's probably a me problem, but I'm like, that did, that struck, that struck anger into my heart.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Do you want to, do you want to give me like the? The my thesis, I'm really into Spanish right now. I don't know what's going on. This is my second word I can't conjure in English.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  Is it Finnish your first language?

• 4:05Speaker 01

  It is, yes. It is my first language.

• 4:07Speaker 02

  I'm really into my native tongue right now, actually.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  I've just been in America for 20 years that sometimes I do speak, I think officially, English better than I speak Spanish.

• 4:16Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 4:16Speaker 01

  And I'm better, I know how to be gay in English. I don't know how to be gay in Spanish.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  That is so fascinating.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Yes. There's a whole culture in English of being gay that I really identify with. And then I try to be gay in Spanish and it's flat.

• 4:31Speaker 02

  I can only be gay in Spanish in the way of like, con lugar, sin lugar. Like who has a place who doesn't have a place, pasivo, activo. Like I can only do like, I've been in Spanish speaking countries on Grindr enough to, I can do like gay sex.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  You could do gay sex in Spanish.

• 4:50Speaker 02

  I can do gay sex in Spanish. And some of the hottest sex I've ever had in my whole entire life has been, well, sure with the guys who speak Spanish, but also just with, there have maybe, maybe been, I would say,

• 5:04Speaker 02

  maybe two to 5% of my sex has been with someone that we didn't speak a shared language. And, um,

• 5:12Speaker 01

  But you did.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  I liked it.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  But you really did.

• 5:14Speaker 02

  I had fun with those. I like that.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  What, that is so fascinating to me because there is a, where there's the ancient ritual of sex, which is very different than just, you know, miss fucking, but, um,

• 5:26Speaker 02

  When I'm doing it.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  Do you feel like connected to your forefathers in any way?

• 5:33Speaker 02

  Michelle got so mad when I did that. She shook her head so big. Yeah, there's no difference when I'm doing it, sweetheart, but tell you stories.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Stop. You really become sort of a very forward Italian father sometimes, you know? Just too much, divulging too much information to your children.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I like sex. I like, yeah, I mean, the, the nice thing about sex with someone You, okay, when you're having sex with someone and you don't speak the same language.

• 5:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I hit it.

• 5:58Speaker 02

  There's a beautiful thing of like, really, you always pay attention during sex if you're, if you're doing it well. But you really are like locked in, because you're like, I want to make sure that we're both, if I have to pull out the phone to be like, wait, tell me what's going on, you know?

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, where do you, yeah.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  But you can tell most things you need to know about how it's going by just really paying attention. And great sex is just paying attention, but wow, when you're really paying attention.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  Bless the people who get to have sex with you, my friend.

• 6:22Speaker 02

  Say that.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  Just bless the people who get to do it with you, Caleb, because like, the, if you have sex, the way that you do comedy, the way that you think about the world, I just genuinely think that you're, they're having a great time.

• 6:35Speaker 02

  You know, it can be. It can be.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  It can be a great time.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 6:44Speaker 02

  How are, you and Rachel, your partner.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  Have been together for so long.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  Long, long-term sex.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  How's the sex going?

• 6:50Speaker 01

  You know, there is something called lesbian bed death, which I do believe that all lesbians are staving off at every single moment.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  Yes, I know it.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  And every decision that you make, day in and day out, is to save off lesbian bed death. I think women have this sort of like, peaks of desire and they're very like, hard to overlap at the same time. And so, while we don't schedule sex, there is a level of like, we've got to do it. Like, this is the good for the relationship, a lot of times. And then other times, is the most natural, fun, organic, easy thing.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  We've been together for nine years now, and like, she has a way, she's so horny, all the time. She's obsessed with my body, she's constantly touching it, she's constantly, and I'm going, get the fuck off of me. You're like, we have different drives.

• 7:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  And so, I think I learned to, like, give in to sex first, and then she's learned more how to let the flirting and the emotional side come first. Like, we've both had to meet.

• 7:52Speaker 02

  Giving to sex didn't feel great to her.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  Sorry. So sorry.

• 7:56Speaker 02

  What do you mean by give in to sex?

• 7:58Speaker 01

  Like, like, the idea for me is that you start with flirtation and like, uh, excitement. But after you've been with someone for a while, for me personally, I don't think it's for everyone. You have to sometimes do sex first and then get into it as it's happening. You know what I mean? Like?

• 8:15Speaker 02

  Oh, I understand what you mean. Yeah, like order of Pimdos.

• 8:17Speaker 01

  Uh, Pimdos, exactly. You have to sort of decide that sex is happening and that, and you have to go with that decision. And then eventually in the first, you know, it just takes a little bit and then you're like, I fucking love this. I forgot that I was having a great time with this. Your brain just, um, I don't know what that is. I think your brain wants to continue in the inertia of like your day. I think women's brains can be very like, uh, what's the next thing? What's the like, what do I need to work on or what's, you know, what does the house need? What does my mom need? And I think Rachel's brain is very much like,

• 8:52Speaker 01

  literally focused.

• 8:54Speaker 02

  Say that.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  She wants to come.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  And I'm like, uh, yeah, I could, I could come.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  I could come.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, Rachel, that's my boy.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, she is, she's a horn dog. Okay? This woman is like, literally I have to like shoot her like little fucking looks like shut the fuck up. Cause she's like talking about my tits in front of me to our friends. I go, Rachel!

• 9:17Speaker 02

  Rachel, stop!

• 9:18Speaker 01

  Stop!

• 9:19Speaker 02

  Those are my tits.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  I kinda like it a little.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  A little, um, but I do have to.

• 9:27Speaker 02

  You guys never did open, right?

• 9:29Speaker 01

  No.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  You've always been monog.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  We, we've talked about this a little bit of like, uh, the door is open, but neither of us walks through it really.

• 9:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  Um, we just, I think I, we, we, sometimes I think just don't like, this is great. Don't, let's not add more complications and variables to it.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  But I also don't find anyone that I want to make out with and have sex with a lot. So.

• 9:52Speaker 02

  Really?

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't see them.

• 9:54Speaker 02

  Sex, I understand. Sex, I, if I'm having, if I'm in, if I'm in a situation, if I'm in a relationship with somebody and I am falling in love with them or in love with them, sex, I'm kind of like, whatever. Maybe I'd have sex with someone else if the opportunity, if I was like away for a long time or something, I'd get horny. I also don't care if my partner sleeps with other people that much these days. But making out, I'm always wanting to make out with someone new.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Oh, making out is delightful.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  I'm gonna cry cuz.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  Making out is incredible.

• 10:20Speaker 02

  Making out with someone new, ooh.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  The, the sort of like tickle of the throat. Sometimes I feel like there's a thing like just coming out of my tongue just going, kiss me. You know?

• 10:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, what is that?

• 10:34Speaker 02

  Don't fight that. I like making out with someone new. It's one of the best things that ever happens to me.

• 10:38Speaker 01

  Have you made out with a girl like in the last five, six years? When was the last time you made out with a girl? I didn't finish that question, but you know.

• 10:45Speaker 02

  The last time I made out with a girl, uh, no.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  No way. No.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  It's, it's been a long time.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  It's been a long, I'm not a, um, I will say I have a lot of friends that are, well, I think just maybe more fun and more progressive or advanced than I am. Like it feels like they're correct that they're like, making out is like a fun, like if I'm making out, it's cuz I like, it's like a sexual thing to me.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  You want it to lead one thing to another.

• 11:11Speaker 02

  It doesn't have to lead one thing to another. I'm quite happy to just make out sometimes, but I only wanna do it with people that I'm like sexually attracted to. I have friends that are like, oh my God, I'll make out with my friends just for something to do at the bar or whatever. And I'm like, yeah, I'm not, that's not really my vibe.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  I don't do that either.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  Do you know what I mean?

• 11:27Speaker 01

  No, I totally understand what you mean. There has to be an electric feeling. The kiss has to feel, uh, spicy.

• 11:35Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  In some way. Yeah, I feel that.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  It feels like making out with a friend, like I've done it, I've done it inadvertently. I wasn't doing it to make out with a friend. I've tried making out with a friend that I thought maybe there would be a spark with. And when there's not that spark of like, we might fuck, we could fuck, we both wanna fuck, who knows if we will fuck. When that spark isn't there, it just feels like making out with someone at work, like, like, like acting or on camera or something where it's like, oh, it's like, this just isn't the same. It's the, there's, there's some like spirit of making out removed from it. And I'm like, now we're just touching faces.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. It could be any other body part as well. It might feel the same.

• 12:09Speaker 02

  Totally. I think it's cool though. When people are like that, I wish I got joy. If I could get like a, if I could get like a, um, like the same feeling from just making out with a friend, God, my life would be so easy.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. Do you, when you walk into a party, do you like scan a room and do you go, who can I make out with here? Like what's the, when you walk in, what is your like prime directive?

• 12:30Speaker 02

  Not really. I'm not going out with the intention. Usually I'm going, genuinely, I'm usually going out. For two reasons, either I'm going out to have fun with my friends and feel alive. And it's a, I really wanna be out, or more often, I'm going out out of some sort of obligation. That I was, my need to be out, I have some reason I have to be at this thing, I told someone I would be there. Whatever. It's funny, we've been to a couple of parties this month for the movie. And I, every time have said, I'm staying for 45 minutes, doing my obligation and going home. And then I have fun, I stay out for four or five hours. But, yeah, I'm not, I'm not really ever walking into a bar or a party being like, "Who am I gonna..."

• 13:06Speaker 01

  "Who is it here?"

• 13:08Speaker 02

  But when it happens, it's so great.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  It is. I definitely don't scan for that, but I am doing little taste and bites of who's fun here.

• 13:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:16Speaker 01

  Who's interesting here, who's gonna say something crazy to me that's gonna be fun and entertaining to hang out with.

• 13:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  And then I am, at times, when I'm in that mode, last night, dropping people like flies, too.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  A little bit.

• 13:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  I can be a little cutthroat at a party that I'm trying to have fun at.

• 13:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh yeah, I'm moving on.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  I gotta move on from this conversation.

• 13:34Speaker 02

  I'm moving on.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. There, I, I got hip, well, listen, they might listen to this, but I got hip with a couple of duds.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  I'm so sorry if you were at this party.

• 13:45Speaker 02

  It's okay, we've, I've been the dud.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:47Speaker 02

  We've all been the dud.

• 13:48Speaker 01

  We've all been the dud.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  Sometimes everyone has to play the dud.

• 13:50Speaker 01

  Thank you Caleb for this perspective, we've all been the dud.

• 13:52Speaker 02

  We've all been the dud, it's okay.

• 13:53Speaker 01

  And last night, they were not on their best, like, they were not the shiniest that they've ever been.

• 13:57Speaker 02

  I have felt myself at parties, I have felt myself in a conversation being like, "This person deserves to be talking to someone better right now." Like, I'm not, no, I'm not on right now.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:08Speaker 02

  That's okay. I'm looking around the room, I'm going, there's more on people in here. I'm talking to somebody who's on right now.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  And I, I release them. I release, I go, you go talk to someone who's on.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  That's your power, too.

• 14:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  To hold on to someone when you're not at your best.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  Tonight I'm the dud.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Is a torturous thing to do to someone.

• 14:25Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  It is, let them go.

• 14:27Speaker 02

  And you know what, let me tell you something, release them.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  Release them.

• 14:30Speaker 02

  Release them.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  If their eyes are glazed over.

• 14:34Speaker 02

  Release them.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  That's why it's so nice when you're around people where you don't feel like you have to host anything.

• 14:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  Where you don't feel like you have to make it fun. Other people make it fun too.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  And you can volley and that is, I feel like all of my bones just settle. I go, oh, thank God.

• 14:51Speaker 02

  I know, it's electric.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  It's electric. And that was me at the party last night.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  You were in it last night.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  I was so in it. Oh, something else that happened. Somebody made a delicious shepherd's pie that was passed around because she hates cakes. So no cakes were allowed.

• 15:07Speaker 02

  I think I'm getting mad again.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  She was so hardcore about not wanting a cake. And so they passed around a delicious shepherd's pie with a joint lit at the top of it.

• 15:18Speaker 02

  I'm back.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:19Speaker 02

  I'm back, unfortunately.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  I kind of am now, just rage baiting you.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  But that brought me back.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Do you ever have moments at parties where you need to take little breaks? Like, you'll go to the bathroom, still the toilet be quiet?

• 15:28Speaker 02

  100%. Also, I'll go to the bathroom and I will just stand in the bathroom sometimes and do this.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  I'm cold. Yes.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  I sat in the little back, like, stair area. You know how, like, Chicago houses have that, like, enclosed stairs going up the back of homes? And I sat there by myself and a woman walked out and she saw my face. She went, oh, I'll come back later.

• 15:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  I'll be back.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  God bless that.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  She read that sign.

• 15:54Speaker 02

  God bless the person who sees you having a moment and lets you have it.

• 15:58Speaker 01

  And just goes.

• 15:59Speaker 02

  Mmm, amen.

• 16:01Speaker 01

  Get out, you do whatever you need to do there.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  Let the church hear it. That is so beautiful.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, you just need to regulate. You need to calm down. Nothing like a silent moment. And cold, I can't be hot and have a silent moment. That's like, that's a prison. That's a hell.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  One of the most exciting things that ever happens to me in my entire life.

• 16:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:20Speaker 02

  Is when I'm in a hot space, feeling overstimulated, and I can step out to a cold outside and be quiet.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Mmm.

• 16:28Speaker 02

  And I need that.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  You have to have it.

• 16:31Speaker 02

  Because when I go back in there, I'm back at work.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  I'm back at work.

• 16:36Speaker 02

  I'm gonna service those people.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  When I went back into the party, after that, what I would call a 10-minute, sort of like, sensory deprivation chamber in the back of the house, I walked back in, killed.

• 16:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  Killed.

• 16:50Speaker 02

  That's so beautiful.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I will say, and not to talk about this every single time we're together.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  No chairs in that house.

• 16:56Speaker 02

  God damn it.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  Not a wanna chair in that fucking house I could sit in.

• 17:00Speaker 02

  And I knew there was something about the crafting in the shepherd's pie that did let me know.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  It was.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  It wasn't gonna be a comfy seat house.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  Bananas, not a comfy seat house.

• 17:09Speaker 02

  I wanna tell thin people, I'm gonna try not to cry.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  Thin people, I'm gonna try not to cry when I say this to you.

• 17:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:18Speaker 02

  Thin people.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  Thin people.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  When you're buying seats for your home, I want you to think of the fattest person you've ever seen.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 17:25Speaker 02

  I want you to think of the fattest, biggest, chunkiest motherfucker you've ever encountered.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  And I want you to think, if I had them over, would they enjoy this seat?

• 17:35Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:36Speaker 02

  And if the answer is no, I'd like you to skip it, thin people. Thin people, if you can hear me. Thin people, if you can hear me right now, thin people.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  But they can't. You have a lot of thin fans, I feel.

• 17:47Speaker 02

  I do, and it's concerning because they are small and, thin people, your seats aren't working.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  No.

• 17:53Speaker 02

  And I'm not changing.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  No.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna lose weight to come over.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  No.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  You need to get different chairs.

• 17:58Speaker 01

  And I'm gonna tell you something right now, your little mid-century fucking furniture that you purchased.

• 18:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  It's a hazard to me. I will break your beautiful things.

• 18:07Speaker 02

  Mid-mod.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  It doesn't mid-mod.

• 18:09Speaker 02

  More like, good god. I gotta get the fuck out of here.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  Oh, stop! She had, their dining room table was, it was so cute. It was a bench that has the seats attached to the table, so you can't move the bench out in order to sit. So you literally have to be a certain diameter to fit it. Anyways, um...

• 18:31Speaker 02

  Antique. More like, I think, I'm gonna break this fucking thing.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  I'm gonna break this fucking thing. Have you ever broken a chair?

• 18:38Speaker 02

  Of course!

• 18:39Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 18:40Speaker 02

  Are you kidding?

• 18:40Speaker 01

  That's how I got my strength, I'm gonna tell you right now.

• 18:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:43Speaker 01

  Um, not by physically breaking a chair, but the dignity that you have to have.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Coming back up after breaking a chair in front of a group of people is the kind...

• 18:53Speaker 02

  Like a phoenix rising from the ashes.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 18:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, pulling yourself out of the rubble.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  Just a hand first and then you come out ash driven.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  Would you?

• 19:05Speaker 01

  Face covered in ash.

• 19:06Speaker 02

  As a fat person, when you break a chair in front of other people, the way you have to roll off the wreckage.

• 19:11Speaker 01

  Cause you can't get straight back up, baby. You can't get straight back up.

• 19:16Speaker 02

  You have to roll off the wreckage onto your elbows and knees and then begin to ply your, like a phoenix rising from the ashes. You have to ply, pry yourself off the ground.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  Slapping away the hands of helpers.

• 19:26Speaker 02

  Don't touch me.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  Don't fucking touch me.

• 19:29Speaker 02

  Like Lieutenant Dan in Forrest Gump.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Don't touch me.

• 19:32Speaker 02

  On New Year's Eve, when he wants to put himself back in his chair, you have to get yourself up. Oh, it's humiliating, but then you stand tall.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  You said, I can go through anything.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  I can do anything. Um, one, absolutely. It is invigorating to fall off a chair, come back out, break it. And then just be you again.

• 19:53Speaker 02

  To, yeah, to stand in, to stand in the rubble of the chair that you broke with your, just by having a body that you put on it.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 20:01Speaker 02

  And to look around and go, everyone sit with this.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. And to watch the apologists.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  To watch them all feel bad.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  They said, we should have thought of this. And I go, yes, you should have.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  And to watch the chair owner, and if it's a good chair owner.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  If it's a good chair.

• 20:16Speaker 02

  To watch the chair owner go, oh, there was something already kind of off with that chair.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  It was already a little square and loose and wobbly.

• 20:23Speaker 02

  Well, I sat down on it. It felt fine.

• 20:25Speaker 01

  It felt good.

• 20:26Speaker 02

  There was nothing off with the chair when I touched it.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I broke out. One, uh, there is a succession of chairs that are terrible for fat people. Number one in my mind is the Bad Bunny, uh, Puerto Rican chair, the Latino chair. It's the plastic white chair with the Corona brand on the back of it that you see.

• 20:42Speaker 02

  Interesting. I didn't think of that as a Latino chair.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Oh, well, that's.

• 20:45Speaker 02

  I thought, I thought of that as a white trash chair.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  Oh, that's.

• 20:47Speaker 02

  Isn't that beautiful?

• 20:48Speaker 01

  Beautiful.

• 20:50Speaker 02

  And you, we're not so different.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  We're not so different, that's so beautiful. This is my feelings.

• 20:55Speaker 02

  Bad Bunny uses it?

• 20:56Speaker 01

  It's the cover of his album, is that chair. And as soon as I saw it, I said, this man is bat phobic.

• 21:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  And very beautiful, and good at what he does.

• 21:04Speaker 02

  I don't care what his, I need to see, I need to be with him.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  You need to be as a body.

• 21:08Speaker 02

  I need to see with him about some stuff.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  Motherfucking.

• 21:11Speaker 02

  So.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Ad with the little tattoos, his little facial hair.

• 21:17Speaker 02

  You know what sucks about me?

• 21:18Speaker 01

  Well, no.

• 21:19Speaker 02

  Guys like, like, okay.

• 21:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, go off.

• 21:23Speaker 02

  I'm gonna be sick.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  Wait, what, okay.

• 21:25Speaker 02

  Straight guys, and I'm not saying he's straight, I'm just saying, straight guys, I don't know if he's straight. Straight guys who, um, think they've got it going on. They usually do with me. Do you know what I mean? Like, when, when, when straight guys have like little tiny tattoos and wear like a fucking keychain on their belt loop.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 21:45Speaker 02

  And like, unfortunately, like when they leave the house and they're like, I'm fine shit. Unfortunately, I usually agree.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  They get you.

• 21:52Speaker 02

  And that's stupid of me.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's like, are you the, are you the kind of the person that like liked the main jock guy, like the main football player?

• 21:59Speaker 02

  Not exclusively, but yeah.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too.

• 22:02Speaker 02

  I was liking other things as well, but yes, I was sometimes into that.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna lie about that.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  It's the confidence, um, and I believe it, I believe it with them.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  I, yes, Bad Bunny is a real, I feel a trickle on my neck with that one.

• 22:17Speaker 02

  Also, I'm just gonna say it, a lot of the sport, like when I, when I was developing crushes for the first time in my life, a lot of the sporty guys were nicer than like the theater kids.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  You're so fucking right.

• 22:28Speaker 02

  Kids were mean as fuck. I would talk to the theater kids and be like, I've never heard someone talk like this.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  I was like, I really, I feel, I feel in my soul that I should be connected with you, but I've never heard such a hateful and beautifully, like, put together string of words.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  Oh, a hundred percent.

• 22:44Speaker 02

  And I'm kinda missing hanging out with the football guys right now because they're stupid, but they're nice.

• 22:48Speaker 01

  More in their bodies, you know, they're more just about the experience of sort of goofily walking around and touching things.

• 22:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  Theater kids are thinking too hard about every single fucking little thing, and I'm describing myself, by the way.

• 23:01Speaker 02

  Hello.

• 23:02Speaker 01

  Also, Rachel is, in this case, she is the experiential body jock and I'm the theater kid.

• 23:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, Rachel's like.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  This is our relationship, yeah.

• 23:10Speaker 02

  Rachel's like, like, truly showing love by like fixing your friends' transmissions and shit. And you're like sitting in the house analyzing.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely. I got mad at her the other day because she was going to help a friend on a car. I go, what about our car? Our fucking broken car.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  She's like, this is your friend, babe.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  It is. It's true.

• 23:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  I think you can be a little, I wouldn't say more stupid, but like you can engage with the world in a lovely, sort of like open, easy way. It doesn't always have to be, um, criticism, not in a bad way, but just a, a sort of decryption of every little fucking interaction and every little thing, you know?

• 23:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  But we've reached a lull in the conversation. Are you feeling it right now? Like, where do we go from here? Well, I just thought, what's next?

• 24:00Speaker 02

  That's so interesting. I was thinking in my head, what do you think is the best and worst thing about you? That's what was going on in my head. If about yourself.

• 24:07Speaker 01

  About myself?

• 24:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  The best and worst thing about me. It's a really good question.

• 24:12Speaker 02

  Cause I only think of good things when I think of you.

• 24:13Speaker 01

  That's so sweet. That's wonderful.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  Based on my deep love for you.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  I'll start with best, cause yeah, um, it's just the number one good thing. Let's start with that one.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  Cause yeah, that one's fun to answer.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  That was fun to answer.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  And the other part sucks.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  The other one, we'll see if we get to it. We'll see if I can like sort of prolong that one.

• 24:36Speaker 02

  Let's both do best and then see if we get back to worst.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  If we get back to it.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  Do you know what's funny about me?

• 24:40Speaker 01

  What?

• 24:40Speaker 02

  I, speaking of worst things about you.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:44Speaker 02

  About, not about you, about worst things about me.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 24:47Speaker 02

  Sometimes I can't help, but when I picture people criticizing me, I can't help but to imagine that they had caveats. Have I said this on here before? Like sometimes, like sometimes I'll be like, I'll be like, oh, I wonder if that person doesn't like me. And I'll be like, what would they say if they didn't like me? And then I'll imagine them saying like, he's so annoying, but he is funny.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  So it's like the worst thing comes with still.

• 25:12Speaker 02

  Like I imagine caveats sometimes when I imagine people criticizing me. That I'm like, that I'm like, they would be right to say that I am annoying, but I think they would have to admit that I am fun. You know what I mean? Or I'll like, sometimes my brain will just naturally create caveats.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, you, you want an out.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  I, my brain needs it.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  Well, there's no absolutes. You're not always bad. You're not always good.

• 25:33Speaker 02

  Well, and I think it's because, I think, I think it comes from a place of even the people I dislike the most in the world. I do caveats for them.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 25:41Speaker 02

  I, and not even in my own brain, I go like, God, that person is such a fucking asshole, but credit to them. They are a good painter, you know, or what, or whatever the thing is.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  Whatever the thing, yeah.

• 25:51Speaker 02

  I do that.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  I totally do that, too. I, um, I definitely, I was just, not to bring up, but I was just reading a nun's book.

• 25:59Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Helen Prejean's book.

• 26:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 26:01Speaker 01

  Um, and.

• 26:02Speaker 02

  She the prison abolitionist?

• 26:03Speaker 01

  Yes, sorry to bring up prison abolition right now, but.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  This is good.

• 26:06Speaker 01

  All that to say is that if the worst fucking dude who's a fucking murderer and, and that she has found a way to unconditionally love that person, I go, okay, what can I bring about that in my life? How can I look at an asshole and be like, okay, I know why you're an asshole. The explanation helps. We don't need to hang out, but I see your value.

• 26:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  As a person.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  Oof, that's hard.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  It's so hard. It's, I mean, especially now, it's so fucking hard to look at people and think of like, what you love about them when you hate them and they seem to hate you. But, um, uh, the best thing about me, just to really move through to that, um, I think I'm someone who is very inclusive. I really want to, uh, bring people close and I desire that intimacy with everyone and I'm not afraid to go for it with people that I meet, with, um, friends, with friends' friends. I'm a pursuer of intimacy and care and love and I love that about myself. And I think the friends that I have, uh, um, uh, have come to me in a lot of different ways,

• 27:13Speaker 01

  say how much they appreciate that closeness that I almost like demand of people that are in my life. It's like, I want to know everything about you. I want to know every, like what you're thinking about little things and big things. And, uh, I, yeah, I pursue it like rapidly. It's where I get all of my energy is that. Um.

• 27:30Speaker 02

  I think that's true about you.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, that's right.

• 27:32Speaker 02

  I think that's deeply true about you. I think that's a beautiful one.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  Thank you. Yeah, I love that about myself. And then I would say maybe my worst quality.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  Oh, we're doing it. Okay, wow.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  No, we're going.

• 27:40Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  Um, I love talking about myself, so this question is perfect. Um, I would say that the worst part of myself is I can be, on the other side of the coin, very judgmental and critical.

• 27:53Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Um, and that sometimes I can, uh, take away the joy of moments, um, by,

• 28:06Speaker 01

  criticizing things through the lens of my insecurity, my lack of knowledge, my, like, uh, desire to feel better about myself.

• 28:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  And so sometimes I can tear shit down in my brain and in my heart because I'm not feeling good about myself.

• 28:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:21Speaker 01

  So, and I have to really, I have to quiet that voice down.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  Quite often. And it affects people negatively in my life, that criticism and that, like, uh, yeah.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  That's interesting.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 28:36Speaker 02

  I don't see that about you very often.

• 28:37Speaker 01

  Well, I hide it so well.

• 28:38Speaker 02

  I know. Well, that's nice. The, the worst thing about you being like a bad day scenario, rather than a constant through line, is a nice thing. That means you're doing good work. That means that you're like, you're, um, establishing, yeah, you know your stuff and you're like working on it and doing good.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I don't, um, I for, I don't know if you had this, but for many years thought I was terrible and a bad person and.

• 29:00Speaker 02

  Really?

• 29:00Speaker 01

  Uh, oh, yeah. I spent, probably until like maybe 27, really thinking the worst of myself. Like, I was, oh, I, I, it was, uh, peaks of like, uh, sort of, uh, delusional charisma and then, uh, couldn't back it up with any real substance of friendship. It was really hard. People would really like me when they first met me.

• 29:21Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  And then the relationship would peak at the beginning and eventually every single one of those friendships would. It was like they would, uh, get to know me and it was harder to be my friend.

• 29:31Speaker 02

  Why was that?

• 29:32Speaker 01

  You know, I was a big liar and a thief.

• 29:34Speaker 02

  And, uh, yes.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  I um, yeah, they.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  All of my lying and stealing, of course.

• 29:42Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes, I was a big liar, a big sinner.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  Um, no, I was a big like, uh, I think just toxic ass, full toxic bitch, you know? And I was, it was also mired in a, in a lot of charisma.

• 29:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  In a lot of like dictatorship over my friendships.

• 29:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  And, uh, it was, uh, yeah, uh, until I was probably about 27 or 28. Uh, truly, uh, thieving and making excuses for it, babes.

• 30:08Speaker 02

  You stopped stealing.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  Oh, I stopped stealing. I think there was a little klepto style stuff going on, you know? Uh.

• 30:14Speaker 02

  I, I'm, I want to ask though, how did you, I, I'm sure, I'm sure there are people listening to this that are relating to at least some piece of this. I don't know about the lying and the thieving, but, uh, how did you, I think more broadly, like you identified that, that your relationships weren't going the way you wanted them to.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:32Speaker 02

  Then you ident, you did probably the harder part, which is, I think many people can identify like, life kind of isn't going the way I'd like it to go.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:39Speaker 02

  Then you did the harder part of identifying your role in it, which is one of the hardest parts of self-improvement and happiness is realizing that you, you have a shared creation in every dynamic you're a part of, whether you like it or not. You're not a victim. You are playing a role in every dynamic that you're in, whether it's allowing bad behavior or participating in bad behavior. So you recognized your role in it and then you made a change. Was there a person that said something to you or a thing you read or like? What happened that helped you change the behavior that was making you unhappy? Do you know?

• 31:10Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Um, I was.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  Is it really dark and deep?

• 31:14Speaker 01

  No, it's not dark and deep. It's not dark and deep. It's, I, my friend James, uh, who I love so much, he, I, he had this amp at my house and I couldn't pay my rent and I sold his amp and took the money and paid my rent.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:31Speaker 01

  And it caused a ripple effect in my, in my friend group at that time. People that were very close to me and all of them were like, hey, we just can't abide by this behavior.

• 31:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  We're done. And so.

• 31:42Speaker 02

  Right, that sucks. Yeah.

• 31:43Speaker 01

  And so I lost my entire kind of close circle of friends in that moment at 27, 28. And, uh, they sort of created a lot of boundaries around me and it was barbed wire boundaries too. It wasn't just like, you can't come around. It was like, get the fuck away.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  And, uh, that really.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  You know, you're alone in a fuck, like in a room. And, you know, who do you call? Your mom, you know what I mean? You call your fucking mom, because it's the only fucking person in your life that is gonna still talk to you at that point.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  And so I called my mom, and she really honed in on this thing that I really have taken very seriously ever since, which is like the, the forgive yourself and then you can move on.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  Like, and I always got stuck, the wheels got stuck in the forgiving myself part. God, this is so self-helpy, Caleb, but like, truly.

• 32:35Speaker 02

  No, I doubt it.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  Now, I fuck up, I go, I forgive myself, you fucked up, move forward, you can make amends from that point on. If you stick around and you're like, ah, I did this thing and it was so fucked up. Like, of course, you're gonna think about it and figure out what your part in it was, but don't let that get in the way of like actually making amends with people and changing things.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:56Speaker 01

  I find that if you get too stuck in the like, I'm a fuck up and I'm bad.

• 32:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  That was the shift, just like, actually, I'm not bad. I forgive myself, even if no one else does.

• 33:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  And that really started a whole new era of my life. Um, that was so much fucking fun.

• 33:12Speaker 02

  Well, you have such beautiful, deep, rich, varied friendships in your life now.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 33:17Speaker 02

  So it obviously worked. I think the thing you're talking about, though, of am I a good person, am I a bad person? I think about this a lot with am I a happy person or not, etc. The line of thinking of am I X, Y, or Z type of person

• 33:28Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:29Speaker 02

  is to me inherently negative. I don't really worry about if I'm a good or bad person, I worry about if I am doing good or bad.

• 33:35Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  Like, it's, sometimes we will all do bad, and sometimes we will all be mean, and sometimes we'll all be negative, and sometimes we'll all be critical, or selfish, or whatever. Those behaviors occur naturally, like, in human life.

• 33:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:47Speaker 02

  That doesn't mean you are, behaving selfishly on a Monday doesn't mean that every day thence forward that you are a selfish person, capital A S P. It just, you were selfish on Monday.

• 33:58Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:58Speaker 02

  And I, I don't know, the, the, the focus on, I think shifting the focus on, um, from what type of person am I to how am I behaving is way better. Cause it allows you to be like, oh, I was kinda bad yesterday, or, or I've noticed that lately I've shown up uh, in X way in my friendships, or whatever.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Oh, and to have a lovely friend who calls you and goes like, hey, I noticed you've been interrupting me a lot lately. I had a friend call me about that, like, a couple of months ago.

• 34:25Speaker 02

  Oh, my god.

• 34:26Speaker 01

  She was like, hey, I just wanna let you know, I feel like you've been interrupting me a lot lately. She goes, I'm not mad or anything, I just wanna let you know it's happened four or five times.

• 34:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  Um, and that's it. I just have that for you.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  I'm six, I'm six, one, half dozen the other on that because

• 34:41Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 34:42Speaker 02

  Did you feel like you were interrupting them a lot?

• 34:44Speaker 01

  Um.

• 34:44Speaker 02

  Do you feel like it was based in truth?

• 34:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, there was something going on between us.

• 34:48Speaker 02

  Great.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  That, like, I'm gonna be honest, I felt like she was being a, she was just talking to talk.

• 34:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  Talking to talk, talking to just to say stuff.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:57Speaker 01

  And sometimes when I feel like people are just like wanting to hear their own voice a lot.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  And I told this to her, um, I'll be like, let me redirect this a little bit. And this is my organizational skills and benevolent manipulation, I could probably stop doing that. I don't need to do that all the time.

• 35:13Speaker 02

  The reason I'm, the reason that bumps me is because I think always you're welcome to voice, uh, any relationship I have in my life, I would welcome someone voicing their concern. I just have been in friendships sometimes that I've had to like, not cut off, but like slow down or pull the brakes on a little bit that like, I, I just won't engage in like constant evaluation and criticism. And so sometimes those things, I'm like, like, I feel like you've been cutting me off a lot lately. It's totally fine if I'm doing that, and if I recognize the behavior is true, I'm happy to hear it and we'll change course. But sometimes I've been friends with people that are so therapized and so critical and constantly evaluating that I'm like, you're not wrong, but if it comes up all the time, I'm gonna eventually get the vibe that we just aren't a fit.

• 35:59Speaker 02

  Like, there are just certain times that I'm like, I don't wanna hear from you anymore about your little evaluations and criticisms of our dynamic. At a certain point, you might just not like, like talking to me, and we should stop doing it so much.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:11Speaker 02

  Like, not every relationship is worth so much work.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  That is, that is such a hard thing to learn too, because we, right now especially, I think, are taught like, preserve the friendship, keep moving, move through stuff, work through stuff, and it's like, actually. You just have a nicer time if we hang out less.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  To a point.

• 36:29Speaker 01

  Less.

• 36:29Speaker 02

  There are some relationships, I think there are relationships, you'll identify them, you'll know what they are in your heart. There's no hard and fast rule, which is why I would never be like, don't tell me I'm interrupting you. Sometimes it's nice to hear those things and I have friendships and like Holmes and I are very honest with each other. And Holmes, Holmes is the type of relationship that I've had for long enough and has been beautiful enough and we've been through enough that anything Holmes says to me about my behavior, I'm gonna listen. But then there are more like tertiary friendships that I'm like, damn, the last like six times we've talked, you've had some weird gripe about our dynamic. And whether it's valid or not, I just think we need to spend less time together. Like, maybe we're just not a match and that is so fucking fine.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  It's so fine. Have you been able to say that to people and them react positively?

• 37:10Speaker 02

  I've done it both ways. Like, there have been times where I've naturally put distance between a relationship and they've, we've kind of tapered off a little bit and I haven't put words to it because they haven't asked. And I feel like sometimes that's generosity. Like, sometimes it's like.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  It's your little white lie. It's a different version of that, of like, the distance can be enough.

• 37:26Speaker 02

  You don't wanna hear about it. Also, I don't owe you a thesis on why we're not talking as much lately. Everyone's busy and we're adults. Anytime someone asks, I will tell. If someone's like, hey, I feel like there's distance, I will absolutely be like, yes, I'm putting distance because you've been on my nerves. And every time we talk, I feel like it's a criticism and I'm just really not feeling it. And so, that's what it is. And I've, I've distanced friendships and been like, hey, I just really think we're not on the same page. And it almost really never spawns from a criticism of our dynamic. It almost always is a recurring thing that I'm like, I'm not really digging the energy lately. And that's okay.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:02Speaker 02

  I would say, by the way, maybe this has happened six times in my life.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, not that much, yeah.

• 38:10Speaker 02

  This doesn't come up a lot.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I feel the same way. It doesn't come up too much. I feel like I've gotten good at being like, I'm gonna take a little step. You're a dinner friend. You're not a come over to my house and hang out friend.

• 38:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  You're a hang out with a group of people friend. You're not a one-on-one friend. It's so fucking cool, though, to know the difference because I, I feel like you can get along with so many more people and enjoy so many more people by keeping them at the right, sort of like.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  Distance, sort of.

• 38:34Speaker 02

  And also, there's a real art and importance, I think, to. Learning who you should be taking notes from.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:41Speaker 02

  I don't need.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  Like, what do you mean by that?

• 38:42Speaker 02

  I don't need notes from everybody.

• 38:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:44Speaker 02

  I don't need to hear what everyone thinks of my art or behavior or work or attitude or disposition. I don't, not everyone's notes are valuable.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:53Speaker 02

  Like, there just are people that I meet and we get into, like, we're in a work relationship or a friendship or a romantic, like, entanglement. And sometimes you hear the note and you go like, oh, I actually don't need to hear notes from you because I actually don't like the way that you're moving. Or I don't think that your notes are valid. I think about this a lot more in a work context.

• 39:11Speaker 01

  This is helping me so much right now. Oh, direct it, bitch.

• 39:13Speaker 02

  Really?

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely.

• 39:15Speaker 02

  We've made contact?

• 39:16Speaker 01

  We've made contact. It is, like, vibrating inside of me right now. And it's literally, I'm going, I know what to do about this particular situation I'm going through. One hun- very helpful.

• 39:25Speaker 02

  Well, you think about it, why would every note from every person be valuable? Would you let a stranger on the street tell you about yourself?

• 39:31Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 39:32Speaker 02

  Every note is not valuable.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  Although they do.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  They do, of course.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Strangers love to say a little thing to me sometimes.

• 39:37Speaker 02

  Same.

• 39:38Speaker 01

  Sometimes it's nice, sometimes it's mean. Sometimes it's nice, sometimes it's mean. Sometimes it's mean, yeah. I go, I don't need your opinion, but thank you.

• 39:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you for sharing it.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  Thank you for sharing that.

• 39:48Speaker 02

  I think it comes up more for me in a work context where I'm like, sometimes people want to give you notes that I'm like, well, you haven't made anything that I love.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  So why?

• 39:56Speaker 02

  So I actually don't want to hear from you about my work. And there's zero malice in that.

• 40:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  It's just like, you're doing something different than I'm doing.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  I'm not going to take notes from somebody who hasn't made something that I love because in what world would that make sense? And I think sometimes when you're, when you're a nice person or you're a kind person, we want to be like, we want to hear everything with an open heart and keep the heart open. But sometimes openness doesn't mean, sometimes openness means letting a thing in and letting it walk around for a second and then releasing it.

• 40:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:27Speaker 02

  Openness doesn't mean that you hang on to anything that anyone says to you.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, I think that, you know, when I said the thing that I like about myself, the intimacy piece.

• 40:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  Is that, and the inclusivity piece, my, like, DNA, my, my brainwaves are like, want to be open to everyone. They, I wanna let people in, cuz that's how I sort through.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Like, who, like, who can be close. But I do think that, that there is a level of, like, exhaustion that comes from that, like, desire, and from letting people in in that way. And I do, I very much, what do you think? What do you need? What do you want? And, um, it causes me trouble, of course.

• 41:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  Not big trouble, but a little bit of trouble.

• 41:06Speaker 02

  Well, that's the other thing is like, I don't know, my life is pretty, not big trouble, but a little trouble.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  That's how I feel.

• 41:12Speaker 02

  Story of my stuff, where I'm like, my life is pretty cool. My relationships are like, in really good places. I mostly don't have conflict. God, in my early twenties, I had some friendships that I really had to let go. Like, those six people are all pretty much from my early twenties.

• 41:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:26Speaker 02

  That like, I just had really turbulent relationships, and now I'm at a place in my life where I'm like, that was crazy. I actually don't have turbulence in my life like that.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  If there is a level of turbulence or discomfort in my life, it's like, because I don't have it that often, it's like a fucking light focus on the discomfort and the problem. Uh, and it becomes, like, I go, why is that happening? And I have to figure it out and try to push it away, um, or try to solve it, really. But, uh, yeah, I feel the same way.

• 41:59Speaker 02

  See, that's interesting, cuz I, because my, my work life, and my love life, and my family life, and my friend life, pretty much, mostly cool. Like, I really don't, like I said, I don't have a lot of, like, huge conflicts or crazy mess. So I do sometimes feel myself getting sucked into a small thing and getting really upset about it.

• 42:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  And I have to stop myself and go like, wait, this actually isn't that big of a deal, and I'm kind of giving it more weight than it needs to.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:24Speaker 02

  And like, actually, everything's pretty okay, and I can relax.

• 42:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:28Speaker 02

  But I have a tendency to get like, It's almost like you want to be invested in something. You're like, you're like, oh, I-

• 42:33Speaker 01

  Well, drama is like fuels.

• 42:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  A little bit of drama when I'm, don't have it, when I'm drama dry.

• 42:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  I will lock on to that shit and try to-

• 42:42Speaker 02

  You feel yourself on your seventh phone call to a friend about it and you're like, I'm not getting anything from this.

• 42:46Speaker 01

  That is how you know it's too much.

• 42:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:48Speaker 01

  You go, wow, I've talked about this five fucking times in the last, like, three days.

• 42:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  But that is a way of, uh, you're exercising the problem. You're just like framing it over and over and over and over again until you get fucking tired of yourself and then it gets removed from the dock.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  There's an interesting thing when you're retelling drama, the first like three or four people you talk to about it, you're finding the beats.

• 43:09Speaker 01

  You're finding the beats, babe.

• 43:11Speaker 02

  You're like, you're like finding the beats where you're like, okay, that part needed to go a little later and the reveal will seem crazier if I do it this way. And then like the fifth or sixth person you talk to about it, you go like, I found the story.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:20Speaker 02

  I know what the drama is, you know?

• 43:22Speaker 01

  And you know what the most fascinating emotional parts of it are. You know who's the villain, but also you have caveats for the villain.

• 43:29Speaker 02

  Caveats for the villain, that's always important.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  Caveats for the villain.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  You've made yourself the most reasonable character in the drama.

• 43:35Speaker 01

  Yes, but you admit to some fault because it's not-

• 43:38Speaker 02

  You admit to your fault in the drama because you know that-

• 43:39Speaker 01

  That's right, baby. That's how you become, that's it.

• 43:42Speaker 02

  The way to tell the story.

• 43:44Speaker 01

  God, it's sickening.

• 43:45Speaker 02

  If you stop right there, if you stop and let it go and move on or go to the person or when, if you stop right there, life is good. On the seventh or eighth retell, when you've already nailed the story, you've already figured out your feelings about it, there's nothing else to really discuss.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  You're telling the same person again.

• 43:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  You're telling one person and that person is on the other end of it just, like, just taking it.

• 44:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:06Speaker 01

  You gotta stop.

• 44:07Speaker 02

  That's when, ideally you stop before that, but if you catch yourself there, then it's like, you really gotta move on.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, and if you write it, it only takes like one or two times, which is sickening too.

• 44:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  It's like, just write it.

• 44:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:18Speaker 01

  But-

• 44:19Speaker 02

  I've definitely told friends I can't talk about this anymore.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, me too.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  I've said, hey, I'm so sorry. I don't want to hear about that conflict anymore.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  I can't hear, it's over.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  Your coworker sounds like a bitch. I'm done hearing about it. I love you to death. I gave, I gave, I did my part. I nodded so emphatically through the first telling. On the fifth one, we're gonna have to do solutions or move on.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  They find little colors, little flavors, though, in the fifth telling. They're still not landing on the story, is what's going on.

• 44:43Speaker 02

  But I need to move on.

• 44:43Speaker 01

  We gotta move on.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  Um, do you, um, do you find yourself, are you good at knowing if you're talking too much? Do you ever find yourself in that situation?

• 44:53Speaker 02

  I don't think that's one of my problems. I have, I have problems, but I don't think that they're, I don't think that me talking too much is usually one of them.

• 45:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 45:03Speaker 02

  I, I, I do, so I have, I have talked too much. But I think I'm pretty good at, um, asking questions and moving on.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:12Speaker 02

  At least I hope so, because it's one of my biggest pet peeves.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  When other people talk too much.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  When somebody is on like the, I'll say 23rd minute of a story that should have been six minutes. I feel myself being like, right, right, right, right, right. And, and anyway, anyway, anyway, what's everyone's favorite color? Like, I'm like, let's get the fuck off of this.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  It's the redirect.

• 45:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 45:31Speaker 01

  You have to redirect because you are counting the beats in the room. And you know, it's been talked about for too fucking long.

• 45:36Speaker 02

  And I'm, I'm like, the craziest thing to me is I'm like, how are you not feeling?

• 45:40Speaker 01

  How are you not feeling?

• 45:42Speaker 02

  Three times, that person just went to the bathroom, even though they were in there 10 minutes ago.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  It's the eyes glazed over at the party, release them.

• 45:47Speaker 02

  Release them.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  Release them, baby.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  We're releasing them.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  We're releasing you.

• 45:51Speaker 02

  The power of release.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  The power of, let you, yeah, but again, the caveat.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. Trying to think of the last time I talked too much.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  Last time I watched someone's eyes glaze over when I was talking. I don't know if I can place it. When was it? When was it?

• 46:08Speaker 02

  Did I have, I, I know, I remember this.

• 46:09Speaker 01

  I don't know why I'm thinking, I'm going, when was it?

• 46:11Speaker 02

  When did he do it? I remember this sensation sometime in the last two months. I remember I had the sensation of saying something that didn't go over and feeling embarrassed. But I can't remember what it was. But that's a nice thing about my brain.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:27Speaker 02

  My brain will move on.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 46:29Speaker 02

  I've trained myself to be like, to be like, that didn't happen.

• 46:33Speaker 01

  Do you do that little thing where you kind of, yeah, you kind of trail off right at the end? Or do you go, I'm fucking losing them, but I'm going deep in?

• 46:40Speaker 02

  If I've locked in, because a lot of times what will happen is you realize.

• 46:44Speaker 02

  You're in a circle of seven and you realize you've lost six of them, but you find the one person.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  And then you will hone in on that one.

• 46:51Speaker 02

  But, but, but, but anyway, and you're like, and so then they're, they're your target.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Okay. This happened to me recently and okay, I was in a group of seven or eight people.

• 47:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:01Speaker 01

  And there were two very powerful speakers who did not want to stop speaking.

• 47:04Speaker 02

  I remember you talking about this. Yeah.

• 47:06Speaker 01

  And I want to tell you this because this is so stupid, but these two people would then realize that neither of them were going to stop talking, right? And so they would each individually attach to the person closest to them and continue speaking, creating what I can only call a fractal of division, um, in which now half of the group is talking, uh, is holding court with this person and the other half of the group is holding court with this person essentially. And I'm observing the entire thing happen going, I just want to be together, guys. I just, and I keep trying to push the two groups together. They were too powerful.

• 47:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:40Speaker 01

  They were too powerful and they did not notice that they were doing it over and over and over again.

• 47:45Speaker 02

  Then you know what? Can I say, I'm happy for them.

• 47:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:48Speaker 02

  That sounds like they had a beautiful evening.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  They had a great time.

• 47:50Speaker 02

  I bet they went to bed feeling like, what a night.

• 47:52Speaker 01

  What a beautiful evening.

• 47:54Speaker 02

  Isn't that nice?

• 47:55Speaker 01

  It is. Well, I do think delusion is correct and there are ways in which you and I are delusional and we don't totally know about it yet and I can't wait to find out.

• 48:04Speaker 02

  I know that I'm delusional.

• 48:05Speaker 01

  Oh, it's part of life.

• 48:06Speaker 02

  And by the way, I know that I'm annoying.

• 48:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:09Speaker 02

  You think I don't know that I'm annoying?

• 48:11Speaker 01

  Oh, annoying.

• 48:12Speaker 02

  Of course I'm annoying. Listen to me.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:14Speaker 02

  I'm fucking annoying, but it's awesome the way that I'm annoying. And it's a beautiful type of annoying.

• 48:20Speaker 01

  It's gorgeous.

• 48:21Speaker 02

  No, I am annoying. I, I'm happy to be annoying though. I'm fine with it because if the alternative is being boring, like I do need to remind myself sometimes that when people are annoyed with me, I'm like, only boring people are like unobjectionable all the time. I don't want to be a boring person. I would rather be annoying.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  That's my take about me.

• 48:43Speaker 01

  That's really beautiful.

• 48:44Speaker 02

  The best thing about myself is that I am loyal. I think that's maybe my favorite thing about myself.

• 48:49Speaker 01

  I'm so sorry I didn't ask it back. Thank you for offering.

• 48:51Speaker 02

  I'm giving it because I felt bad for asking you and you being the only one who answered.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  I've touched your hand so many times. I just feel very close to you today.

• 48:57Speaker 02

  Today?

• 48:57Speaker 01

  Yes, I mean, yeah, especially.

• 48:59Speaker 02

  Say it today, okay.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  Stop it!

• 49:01Speaker 02

  Beautiful. Uh, I feel, I like that I'm loyal. I think that's something nice about me. I feel like I really give people, I give people chances. Um, maybe to a fault sometimes, but I like it. I wouldn't change it. And then my least favorite thing about myself.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  Oh, there are a couple, or maybe the, the most difficult thing about myself. Um, I'm rigid about, I like, things need to be my way.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  Oh, wait, that's one of mine too.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  I know, well, you have a lot of the same ones.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  Please!

• 49:32Speaker 02

  Things need to be my way, and it's tough because it was really good for me at my job. I have taste, and so it really works for me at work. Sometimes not for you guys, but shout out.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's really hard.

• 49:43Speaker 02

  But we, my thing, things that I make work because I know how I want them. And, but then it carries into other aspects of my life where I'm like, I really could be less rigid. And I'll feel myself being rigid, and I'll feel myself being like wanting things my way and being annoyed that it's not going exactly my way. And I'll feel myself in it being like, God, you're being annoying right now, and I can't stop. I'm like, I don't care, it should have gone my way.

• 50:06Speaker 01

  But you also, there is this thing, right, which is that you're right a lot. And I'm right a lot. Listen, I can't, we can't fucking help it.

• 50:14Speaker 02

  Chance is shaking. Thank you so much for coming back, O-Ha. This has been so true with all.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  It's, it's disgusting that we're right a lot. Um, and I hate it.

• 50:27Speaker 02

  We, okay, yes, I do identify as someone who's right a lot.

• 50:32Speaker 02

  But I will say, it's not that important to be right all the time.

• 50:36Speaker 01

  Agreed.

• 50:37Speaker 02

  And I need to relax.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:39Speaker 02

  Here's the deal, sometimes when you're right, you could also just shut the fuck up.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:43Speaker 02

  And Caleb has to internalize that note.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  Like, sometimes you are right, and you also could shut the fuck up.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  I have absolutely, uh, am in an era right now where I'm not giving feedback to people about, even sometimes when they ask me.

• 50:56Speaker 02

  Really?

• 50:57Speaker 01

  I'm going, opt out.

• 50:58Speaker 02

  Really?

• 50:58Speaker 01

  I'm opting out because I don't, the energy, that I can't spend it on that. They're gonna learn that lesson on their own, eventually, they will get there, and maybe another person will help them, today it won't be me.

• 51:11Speaker 02

  Do you know what I feel like in this conversation?

• 51:13Speaker 01

  Oh, what?

• 51:14Speaker 02

  Did you ever see, I talk about this a lot, did you ever see that clip of Maya Angelou and Oprah Winfrey in pajamas? In bed together? Do you know what I'm talking about? There's a clip of Maya Angelou and Oprah Winfrey wearing pajamas.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  I know exactly what you're talking about.

• 51:28Speaker 02

  And it's that clip, if you've ever seen it, where Maya Angelou goes, "When people show you who they are, believe them." And Oprah goes, "Believe them." And they're like, they're like being so girls at a sleepover in the most beautiful way. And I, sometimes when I'm really locked in with a friend, I feel that way.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  And that's us right now.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 51:46Speaker 02

  We're in PJs in the bed.

• 51:47Speaker 01

  We're in PJs in the bed.

• 51:48Speaker 02

  And it's, by the way, that conversation is beautiful, if anyone hasn't heard it, you should go listen to it. But they're like so, that moment between them is so awesome and electric. Then you really feel like they're locked in, and that's how I feel with you today.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  That's how I feel with you.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  Oh, what's so true to you?

• 52:02Speaker 01

  Lesbians can say-

• 52:03Speaker 02

  Thank you! Thank you!

• 52:06Speaker 01

  We can say it, we can say, it's the funniest fucking word in the dictionary.

• 52:11Speaker 02

  Yes, you can!

• 52:12Speaker 01

  It's the greatest word that's ever existed, lesbians can say- We've done a lot for you guys.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  Yes!

• 52:17Speaker 01

  We were, okay.

• 52:18Speaker 02

  You guys were the AIDS nurses.

• 52:19Speaker 01

  We were at the hospital. We were the nurses, bitch, we could say-

• 52:22Speaker 02

  Yes, you were at the hospitals.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Who do you think made the quilt?

• 52:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 52:24Speaker 01

  We made the quilt.

• 52:25Speaker 02

  Lesbians were at the hospitals and made the quilt.

• 52:27Speaker 01

  We've done a lot for you guys, we are the emotional backbone-

• 52:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 52:31Speaker 01

  Of all of- We can say

• 52:33Speaker 02

  You can say it.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  We can say it.

• 52:35Speaker 02

  We're bleeping all of these, of course, but yes.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  You have to be pure of heart to say a slur now.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  That is how I feel.

• 52:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  If you're gonna say a slur, it has to come up like from a place of pureness of heart.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 52:44Speaker 01

  And I am pure at heart and I'm allowed to say

• 52:46Speaker 02

  You are.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  And I can see those little gay boys' eyes twitching when I say it, okay? And I say, "Take it."

• 52:51Speaker 02

  Do you know how warm-

• 52:52Speaker 01

  Take it.

• 52:53Speaker 02

  Do you know how warm I feel when I hear you say the F slur? It warms me. And by the way, I'm not gonna stop doing it even if you say no, but do you mind that I say the D slur?

• 53:00Speaker 01

  I would love for you to.

• 53:01Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 53:02Speaker 01

  It is a beautiful word. It's been retookin'.

• 53:04Speaker 02

  I love saying it.

• 53:05Speaker 01

  It's been taken.

• 53:06Speaker 02

  Queer people, here's what I wanna say to queer people.

• 53:09Speaker 01

  Go off. Tell them.

• 53:10Speaker 02

  Queer people- Queer people, listen up.

• 53:12Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 53:13Speaker 02

  We-

• 53:13Speaker 01

  We talked to thin people, or now it's queer people.

• 53:15Speaker 02

  Thin people, we talked to you, now queer people.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 53:17Speaker 02

  We are supposed to be making fun of each other.

• 53:19Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 53:19Speaker 02

  The other people are not supposed to be making fun of us. We're supposed to kill them when they- When straight people make fun of us, we're supposed to kill them. When we make fun of each other, that is what we're supposed to be doing.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 53:30Speaker 02

  That is what queerness is. I'm like a little tired of these Tinder queers.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  The preciousness is exhausting.

• 53:36Speaker 02

  Who can't hear a single thing about themselves.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 53:38Speaker 02

  They're like, "The way that you invalidated..." Shut up.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:41Speaker 02

  "I'm gonna do it again. Shut up." Like, we're supposed- I love you. I wanna grab these Tinder queers by the face and I wanna say, "I love you, and that's why I'm doing this."

• 53:53Speaker 02

  I am seeing you-

• 53:54Speaker 01

  Let's have a little fun.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  And I'm making fun of your outfit because I love you.

• 53:57Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 53:57Speaker 02

  And I want you to do the same thing to me.

• 53:58Speaker 01

  By the way, the first thing you said was to me when I walked in the room, "Wow, I've never seen you in clashing patterns before." Dunk!

• 54:03Speaker 02

  It's all you wear!

• 54:06Speaker 01

  I fucking know!

• 54:07Speaker 02

  It's all you wear and I love that about you. That's a- but that's a love.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  It's a love, and I, uh, never feel more seen than when somebody is roasting me well.

• 54:15Speaker 02

  If I walked into a room and you said- And you- and you called me and you were like, "Hey, here comes this fat-" I would be like, "Oh, God, it's so good to be back with my friends."

• 54:25Speaker 01

  Oh!

• 54:26Speaker 02

  I would feel so seen by that, and it feels like an ancestral communion with queer people before us.

• 54:30Speaker 01

  It really is.

• 54:31Speaker 02

  Oh, that's beautiful.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 54:33Speaker 02

  I have a game for you.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, hit it.

• 54:34Speaker 02

  Maybe- maybe, by the way, maybe my favorite so true of all time that you just did.

• 54:38Speaker 01

  Oh my God, that's so sweet.

• 54:39Speaker 02

  That was beautiful. Are you ready?

• 54:40Speaker 01

  I'm ready.

• 54:41Speaker 02

  I'm gonna read you 15 statements, Oha.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 54:43Speaker 02

  And by the way, we're looking for a sponsor for this segment. If any- if any brands out there wanna contact us-

• 54:48Speaker 01

  If any brands out there-

• 54:49Speaker 02

  We're considering branding the True False segment. And why?

• 54:53Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 54:53Speaker 02

  Because I have a mortgage. Okay, I'm gonna read you 15 statements.

• 54:57Speaker 01

  I'm ready.

• 54:58Speaker 02

  You're gonna tell me as quickly as you can, Oha, what I just said is true or false. And if you get 10 or more correct, we are going to give you 50 US dollars.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  My god, okay, amazing. I could use that.

• 55:06Speaker 02

  And imagine if I had said like, we're gonna give you a Hyundai Sonata, you know?

• 55:10Speaker 01

  I actually do need a Hyundai Sonata.

• 55:11Speaker 02

  You do?

• 55:12Speaker 01

  I really do, yeah.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  Hyundai, reach out. Okay, you ready?

• 55:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 55:16Speaker 02

  The main character in The Land Before Time's name is Littlefoot.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  True.

• 55:19Speaker 02

  True. Gordon Ramsay was born in Scotland.

• 55:21Speaker 01

  True.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  True. The microwave oven was invented in 1845.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  False.

• 55:25Speaker 02

  False, it was 1945. Friendster is older than MySpace.

• 55:29Speaker 01

  True.

• 55:29Speaker 02

  True. Pringle is a Greek word for tube.

• 55:31Speaker 01

  No.

• 55:32Speaker 02

  False. The movie Eight Mile is three hours long.

• 55:35Speaker 01

  False.

• 55:36Speaker 02

  False, an hour and 50 minutes. Houston was once the capital of Texas.

• 55:40Speaker 01

  False.

• 55:40Speaker 02

  True. The Chicago River, the first one you miss is a Houston question?

• 55:43Speaker 01

  I know, and I'm literally from Houston. I'm so sorry, boys.

• 55:46Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 55:46Speaker 01

  I love you guys so much.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  The Chicago River is longer than the Missouri River.

• 55:51Speaker 01

  False.

• 55:51Speaker 02

  False. You don't actually need a stamp to mail a letter.

• 55:56Speaker 01

  False.

• 55:56Speaker 02

  False. Six vice presidents have been from Illinois.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  True.

• 56:00Speaker 02

  False. Nancy Pelosi has been to every continent.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  False.

• 56:05Speaker 02

  False. Burger King was originally called Insta Burger King.

• 56:08Speaker 01

  False.

• 56:09Speaker 02

  True. Lemons float but limes sink.

• 56:15Speaker 01

  True.

• 56:16Speaker 02

  Are you sure?

• 56:18Speaker 01

  False.

• 56:19Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 56:21Speaker 02

  Anne Hathaway's mother invented the Bowflex machine.

• 56:23Speaker 01

  It's fa- false.

• 56:24Speaker 02

  False. The longest English word is 189,819 letters long.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  False.

• 56:29Speaker 02

  True. How'd you do? Wow.

• 56:34Speaker 01

  Hyundai Sonata.

• 56:36Speaker 02

  Hyundai Sonata coming to your driveway.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Hyundai Sonata.

• 56:39Speaker 02

  Say that. Say that.

• 56:41Speaker 01

  I have a wife.

• 56:41Speaker 02

  Say that, no, that was beautiful.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 56:44Speaker 02

  Uh, Oha, we just love you so much.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  I love you back.

• 56:47Speaker 02

  I think we've done a podcast, my love.

• 56:48Speaker 01

  We've done it. Thank you guys for having me.

• 56:50Speaker 02

  Do you wanna tell people where they can find you and how they can support you?

• 56:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can find me at Oha Lopez on Instagram, H O J A L O P E Z.

• 56:59Speaker 02

  I think it's Aloha Oha, right?

• 57:01Speaker 01

  I changed it.

• 57:01Speaker 02

  What, oh, you cha- you changed the handle?

• 57:03Speaker 01

  Stop, you're calling me out.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  No, I thought you were just saying your name, but you changed the handle.

• 57:07Speaker 01

  No, I changed the handle because I'm not a Pacific Islander.

• 57:12Speaker 02

  Right.

• 57:13Speaker 01

  I have no claim on Aloha.

• 57:15Speaker 02

  This is sending shockwaves.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  It's sending shockwave. I've had it since I was 19 years old. And literally, two months ago, I changed it to @AlohaLopez.

• 57:23Speaker 02

  Aloha, we love you so much. Thank you for doing it.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  I love you, Angel. Touch my hand again.

• 57:26Speaker 02

  Chaballa.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  Love you.

• 57:27Speaker 02

  Chaballa, my love.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  Bye bye.

• 57:28Speaker 02

  We would make beautiful babies together.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  Oh, I've told you this.

• 57:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. Let's end it here and talk about it off camera.