Tara Raghuveer Returns

Welcome! This week’s guest is the brilliant Tara Raghuveer! Tara and Caleb talk dance floor etiquette, building empires, splitting time between New York and Kansas City, tenants rights, and much more! Join our Substack for ad free full episodes, early access to merch, our community chat, and more! https://calebsaysthings.substack.com/ Follow Tara! @taraghuveer Follow the show! @sooootruepod Follow Caleb! @calebsaysthings Produced by Chance Nichols @chanceisloud Visit https://Quince.com/sotrue for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. Go to https://Audible.com/headswilrollseries to start listening today. So True with Caleb Hearon is edited and engineered by Nicole Lyons. Our social media manager is Virginia Muller. All episodes are filmed in The So Trudio at Legitimate Business World Headquarters in Brooklyn, New York. A Wave series. https://wavesportsandentertainment.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:04Speaker 00

  Tell me what you're comfortable telling me about your heart and love and dating. Because you're new to New York.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  I'm new.

• 0:08Speaker 00

  You're spending more time in New York right now. You've not left Kansas City. You're much like me, you're splitting time.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  I'm splitting time.

• 0:13Speaker 00

  But you're...

• 0:14Speaker 01

  Which is something, by the way, I don't have the financial means to do.

• 0:17Speaker 00

  Hello. Right, I'll just say it, we're splitting time in different ways.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 0:26Speaker 00

  Oh, Tara, what's going on with you?

• 0:29Speaker 01

  What's going on with me? It's a kind of gloomy Monday.

• 0:32Speaker 00

  It is.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  I was just in Chinatown.

• 0:34Speaker 00

  I almost canceled.

• 0:35Speaker 01

  You almost canceled?

• 0:36Speaker 00

  Gloomy is hard for me. I have three things I'm supposed to do today, and they all almost got canceled.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  You don't like seeing your friends when you're gloomy?

• 0:43Speaker 00

  I love seeing my friends. I sometimes don't know how to be charming when it's gloomy.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  You're charming 100% of the time. What are you talking about?

• 0:51Speaker 00

  You've fallen right into my trap, sweetheart.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  Okay, starting off on the right foot.

• 0:55Speaker 00

  If you have any criticisms of me, let's get them out at the top. I don't want them to sneak in during the episode.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:00Speaker 00

  If there's anything you want to take me to the...

• 1:01Speaker 01

  I mean...

• 1:02Speaker 00

  Mad about?

• 1:03Speaker 01

  Major slumlord. Let's start there.

• 1:05Speaker 00

  Yes, I'm not a landlord yet, but when I am, my tenants are in trouble.

• 1:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's happening.

• 1:11Speaker 00

  Well, because I want to maximize profit.

• 1:13Speaker 01

  Of course you do.

• 1:13Speaker 00

  And I don't care who gets hurt along the way.

• 1:15Speaker 01

  These studios keep getting nicer and nicer.

• 1:18Speaker 00

  Does that make sense? They keep getting paid less and less.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:20Speaker 00

  I'm actually taking money away.

• 1:21Speaker 01

  I keep seeing you build this empire, sure.

• 1:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm taking money away from the staff. I am building my empire on the backs of hardworking people.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29Speaker 00

  Which is the American dream, by the way.

• 1:31Speaker 01

  It's what they've all done to get to the top.

• 1:33Speaker 00

  I grew up with nothing, I earned this.

• 1:35Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:36Speaker 00

  What's not clicking?

• 1:37Speaker 01

  Bootstraps, I see them all over you, you're wrapped in them.

• 1:39Speaker 00

  I have bootstraps everywhere.

• 1:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41Speaker 00

  Oh, no, no, no, I'm gonna be ethical. I do like to text you, though, sometimes, and just test the limits and see what I can get away with.

• 1:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, true, you're kind of testy in the text messages every once in a while. Every once in a while.

• 1:53Speaker 00

  I go, "Hey, this family on my block's getting evicted. Could I buy that building ethically?"

• 1:59Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:59Speaker 00

  "Kidding, guys, I'm kidding, I don't do that."

• 2:01Speaker 01

  What's your perspective? You know, more people than you would expect hit me up for this kind of moral question every once in a while. I don't know how I became a... As like everyone's like most moral friend, it's certainly not true. But I I get hit with questions about this, that and the other thing. Someone trying to secure some kind of unethical bag. Should I do it? And I'm literally always my answer is like, get your bags, sweetie. Like, and people sort of know that they're coming to me and they're gonna get that. But I would never, yeah, there are very few things I think I would tell a friend. You cannot do that because ultimately the problem's with the system, you know?

• 2:39Speaker 00

  I think you have a really good perspective. I think you are one of my, you're one of my North Stars, not because I think you're like, I, I, I think it's because of that. I think because you have a really clear barometer for like, you're not doing the like, look, there's a not small enough number of leftists that I am friends with and interact with in the world that are, like, you're not a good enough leftist if you don't prescribe to their every single definition of every single word and issue. And they want to like rake each other over the coals about it. And you don't participate in that and I don't participate in that. So I know when I come to you, you're gonna give it to me straight. And if I got a no from you on a question, if I was like, hey, this thing came up, should I do it? And you said, no, I would really know, like, that is not cool. Do you know what I mean?

• 3:19Speaker 01

  Totally, totally. Purity is boring and incorrect and incompatible with living life. And also, yeah, if you want people to take your opinion seriously, I feel like you can't, you can't always be in the, you know, this is the only right way zone. You have to be, you have to like take someone's information in and give them feedback related to that situation. My hope is that people would actually take me seriously. If you, if you actually were coming to me being like, this family down the street, they're getting evicted, I want to buy the building, they're all so loud as hell, I need them out of my space, whatever. I, I might be like, Caleb.

• 3:56Speaker 00

  That's so me.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  And I would hope that you would take me seriously on that front, you know?

• 4:00Speaker 00

  I would.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:01Speaker 00

  What are we gonna do about these leftists, Tara?

• 4:04Speaker 01

  What are we gonna do about these leftists? You called me in on a Monday to answer this question.

• 4:07Speaker 00

  What are we gonna do? I do feel, I do, I don't know if you feel this or not, but I feel that the people that are the most like that, capital L, capital T, like, the most, like, prescriptive, annoying, like, unproductive, loud and hateful, left people, they're also the ones doing the least.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:24Speaker 00

  Almost every time. And I'm like, how do you not see this?

• 4:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, all, all the time, all the time. I mean, I think, I think we're in a moment where things are changing for the better. I mean, here we are, sitting in New York City, Mamdaniistan. There's like a lot of people of the left who have figured out how to get really big stuff done. And I think they're demonstrating that there could be another way. And I think, I think I'm clocking people paying attention to that and moving in better directions than in the past. There's a little bit less infighting, a little bit less kind of keyboard warrior. It might just be that everyone got like locked out of their Twitter accounts by, you know, two-factor authentication or something. That's what happened to me.

• 5:05Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. You're not on there anymore.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what happened to me. I can't see anything that's happening on Twitter. I can't tweet at all. So, you know, maybe people like me are just getting locked out of the kind of petty discourse. But I do think things are on the up.

• 5:18Speaker 00

  I think so. I'm seeing less. I, it's, the number is still not small enough for me. I'd like it to be as close to zero as possible of the kind of sentiments that annoy me. It's not my job to educate you, being a big one. I have never fucked with that. I do not like that at all.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 5:30Speaker 00

  I think that is such losing behavior. Uh, but yeah, there's less and less of it, and I feel excited by that.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, same.

• 5:37Speaker 00

  I think Mamdani has done a really good job of sticking to the fucking message.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Sticking to the message and also, he sees his job, and I think, um, good organizers and public people in general see their job as educating people, actually. It's like being curious and educating people, that might be the whole point. And, you know, we've talked about this at length, but it's like, you gotta kind of assume that most people are good, and I think you and I are people who assume that most people actually share our values and our views on the world. Um, but you gotta approach people with curiosity and bring them in to your vision a little bit if you want to. Win and I think that's the main thing. Maybe the big evolution since we last sat and had a conversation like this is like.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  I think now that the left has started to taste a little bit of what winning tastes like. People are like, mm, I want some more of that, actually, and thank God. It's about time. Let's go. Let's win. That's the point.

• 6:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, and also not just that most people. Should agree or do agree with our big points, but like really trying to delineate between the big points and the small points.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:41Speaker 00

  And being like, what really matters here? Like, do you need to be exactly like me? Do you need to talk the way I talk about everything? Do you need to, like I've said many times, like, I don't really care if someone's like. Yeah, I don't care if get married, like, I'm down with that. I'm legitimately cool with that. I'm like rock on. I think we just need to like, we need to get really serious about winning where we can win and going, that actually is a victory.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:03Speaker 00

  That's a person who otherwise would be saying shouldn't be able to get married. It's not like the other version of them is that they don't say anything bad. It's like, no, we need to like, win where we can win, get excited about the things we have in common and like, yeah, make it fun. I've been calling it inviting people to the party.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Inviting people to the party.

• 7:20Speaker 00

  Everyone's invited to the party. Sure. We're having more fun over here.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:23Speaker 00

  Our view of the world is way more fun.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:25Speaker 00

  It's more fun to hang out with like all the, like, I think about KC tenants all the time and I go, all these. Neighbors that I know now that would have never been brought into my life.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:33Speaker 00

  Because you organized me are like, this is a more fun way to live.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:37Speaker 00

  Not being racist and fucking like, uh, classist and like trying to always get one over on somebody and see how you can get ahead the most and how you can like. Isolate yourself from your community in the most like extreme ways possible. Not doing that stuff is the more fun way to be.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  And I do think the right is actually, for a long time, they've been much more inviting to the party. I mean, like, every mofo is invited to a party on the right.

• 8:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  Uh, they're not so concerned with consistency of belief, with sort of coherence and ideology. They're really just concerned with having a ton of people at the party.

• 8:12Speaker 00

  Winning.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  Winning.

• 8:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  They're concerned with winning first and foremost, and um, there's a lot of lessons, I think, to take from that. And frankly, how successful the rights project has been. Because they're not purists and they're not alienating or sort of self marginalizing or whatever. And I think the the left could definitely take some notes on the front of like, let's all come to the party. You're all invited to the party and, you know, coherence is important. And there's a limit on what we can learn from the right, of course, because they're willing to sacrifice a lot of values and people along the way, but I feel optimistic right now.

• 8:50Speaker 00

  I do too. I have I've felt optimistic for a while.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:53Speaker 00

  But it's always kind of hard to tell. It makes me feel better when you say you're optimistic because ultimately, I have come into a really comfy situation.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  As we said, you're on your way to an empire.

• 9:05Speaker 00

  So I acknowledge that and I sometimes think like, oh, is my-

• 9:09Speaker 01

  Let's use some active language, Caleb. I have come into a comfy situation.

• 9:12Speaker 00

  I have.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  You're exploiting labor.

• 9:14Speaker 00

  Exploited the labor of many people.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  In order to build my personal empire.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 9:19Speaker 00

  I look forward to continuing it.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:21Speaker 00

  But no, I sometimes think like, oh, is my optimism just based on the fact that I have like a really charmed life? And I like to think, no.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  I think maybe there's a part of it. There's a part of it, but I you're you're in the world enough. You're paying enough attention. I think you have a broad enough life where you know people who are really, you know, you know, a lot of people who are still really struggling and you're in touch with a broader community than just your blessed and charmed community. As blessed and charmed as it is.

• 9:51Speaker 00

  Hey, blessed and charmed community.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  Hey, blessed and charmed community.

• 9:54Speaker 00

  No, that's the question. Certainly the that because I I certainly see times that I feel less stressed about things. And I'm like, oh, that's because I have X, Y, and Z going on.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:02Speaker 00

  I know that my personal optimism is certainly affected by the fact that I have like financial security and things like that. I can go to the doctor without worrying too much about it. Like those things are like huge gifts. I wonder if my like broader political optimism is based in something real or if it's based in my personal. And I most of the time I'm like, no, I think it's based in like real things that are happening. Mom, Donny being one of them, that I'm like, that feels insane to me.

• 10:26Speaker 01

  Well, I also think optimism, this has been coming up a lot recently because there was this Jalen Brunson quote about imagining the worst case scenario. You can imagine the worst case scenario, but you have to do something about it. And people on the left were freaking out because they were like, oh, my God, it's like Antonio Gramsci, this Italian communist. And Gramsci talked about pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will. And one of the ways I think about this in my organizing is like, we kind of have a choice between despair or delusion. And optimism in times such as these can feel delusional. And it is, in a way. It's a little bit delusional, but the alternative is despair. And what happens when you're despairing is you give up, you shut down, you close off,

• 11:11Speaker 01

  you self-alionate, you marginalize you and your community from any desire to win or to find a better path forward. So I kind of think we don't have another choice but to be optimistic. And then materially, I think there's some good, there's some good stuff happening right now that is, that's reason for optimism, even as there's, of course, like mountains of terrible shit all the time.

• 11:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, we know about the terrible shit. What's, what's making you feel optimistic?

• 11:36Speaker 01

  Ooh, what's making me feel optimistic? You know, I was remembering the first pod that we did. Thank you for having me back.

• 11:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  And we had just launched rent strikes, our first rent strikes in Casey Tennant's history.

• 11:50Speaker 00

  Which I don't agree with.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, which you don't agree with.

• 11:52Speaker 00

  [laughing]

• 11:53Speaker 01

  As a, as a aspiring slumlord.

• 11:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, you made an agreement, yeah.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. We, we had just launched our first two rent strikes at a building downtown and a building in Independence, Missouri. And that building in Independence, they stayed on strike for eight months. And they withheld $300,000 over the course of that eight months. It was a shitty building. There had been a lot of horrific things that had happened over time. They withheld all of that rent and then finally got to the bargaining table with their landlord in June of last year. And we won rent reductions, two-year leases, a schedule for major repairs. And they got to keep every cent of that money that they withheld.

• 12:36Speaker 00

  Which is life changing.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  Which is life changing.

• 12:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  And that was just the beginning. So what's giving me optimism right now, what's giving me hope is like, that was the beginning of a whole new era for the tenant movement. And I'm not being dramatic in saying that. We're getting serious about our economic power, meaning tenants' rent, right? The landlord can't pay their mortgage without our rent. So the theory is really similar to workers on the job. The boss needs your labor. That's how the whole economy functions. So we've gotten really serious about tenant economic power in the last couple of years, and there's a lot of reasons. We should all be optimistic about that because once we figure out how to flex that and flex that more and bigger and all over the place, it could be game over for these slum lords like you.

• 13:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, like me and what I'm doing to my tenants. Also, I do want to say for anyone listening that isn't as familiar with all of this, like, there are probably a not insignificant number of people that listen to the podcast that are, I would say, not completely like organized or fully understand all of this, like what we're talking about. When we say that people are going on rent strike, these conditions are not like, we wanted a new A C and they wouldn't put it in. It's like, this, these are like, unsafe, unfair, like completely objectionable living situations that are like, I, I, I just, I sometimes think that maybe people don't understand, like they hear strike and they think like, oh, you just didn't want to pay your rent because your landlord wouldn't do something you wanted. And it's like, no, this is actually like bare minimum. People are extremely unsafe. Like it needs to happen.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  It's, the, the conditions are really terrible. I mean, just two weeks ago, I was back home in Kansas City and leading negotiations with a union that I've been organizing with for a couple of years, the North Lawn Tenant Union in the historic Northeast. And these buildings are just horrible. Um, as we were sitting at the bargaining table, two of the women at the table with me had lost their electrical the day before. No electricity in their home in Kansas City, Missouri, United States of America in 2026. No electricity. They had to stay in a hotel. Who's paying for the hotel? The tenant union. But at that moment, we were at the table with the landlord. There's sewage backed up in the basement. There's all sorts of mold and critters and pests. There's no- There's no trash, there's no way to get mail delivered, there's a lot of immigrants in

• 14:49Speaker 01

  that building who can't get their visa documentation sent to the place that they live. I mean, it's really bad. And you're right, I think a lot of people in the sort of more normal sections of the rental market or whatever, they're not accustomed to this kind of treatment. And then there's a whole other swath of people who are not only accustomed to it, they're sort of like numb to it. This is just what life is like if you live under a certain income in a certain community. So the conditions are bad and we don't take any action lightly, whether it's a rent strike or something else. We're not doing it for fun or for shits and giggles. We're doing it because our people's lives depends on us taking that kind of action.

• 15:35Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, it's like also, yeah, I think sometimes people don't understand the full scope of what these landlords and rental companies are comfortable doing to people, particularly people they think they can get away with it. Like immigrant communities and like very poor neighborhoods where they're like, oh, well, no one's really paying attention to what's going on over here. I really think it's an active choice that they're like, oh, no one's going to do anything about this. These people don't speak English, they're not organized. And then when the tenant union comes in and they are organized, I think it's a shock and they think they can still get away with it. It's really fun when they don't.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  It's really fun when they don't. I do love that. But the psychology of some of these landlords is super interesting. Now, I've been at the bargaining table with many landlords over the course of the last several years in particular. And it's really interesting. This guy, just a couple of weeks ago, he pulled up, he flew in from Chicago, pulled up, we were standing outside the building, and first thing he said to me is he was like, I'm not carrying, you can frisk me, I'm not carrying any weapons. And I was like, bro, we invited you to a meeting. We, you know, we sent you the full list of attendees, we sent you an agenda in advance, we go out of our way to really demonstrate, we're coming in good faith, and we want to end with some kind of agreement that's better for the tenants,

• 16:51Speaker 01

  of course, also better for all parties involved. Your asset is crumbling. The neighbors are complaining.

• 16:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  The city's involved. The tenant union is gonna have to escalate if you don't fix your shit. So that's sort of our perspective and i- it's super interesting to encounter someone in this immediate defensive posture. He knows he's not acting right. You know, he knows he's getting one over on people. So he comes expecting to be like attacked, right? So that that's the beginning. And then we sit down and he starts kind of waxing poetic about his values and what's right and wrong. He identifies as religious. He he's mostly in the nursing home business. Bad sign, by the way.

• 17:33Speaker 00

  The ex- yeah, the the exact kind of temperament. That's what you want in the nursing home business.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  No, I mean, it's like, and it's the same in every in every little get rich quick scheme. It's like you're gonna own a couple nursing homes outside of Chicago, a couple shitty apartment buildings in Kansas City, and that's how you get your your nut or whatever. But like, it's so interesting to encounter this psychology up close. Cause he'll he'll spill all these beans. He'll confess all of this about his values and how he thinks about his business and whatnot. And then we'll get into the negotiation. Then when it comes time to get this guy to sign a document that basically just has him committing to do the bare minimum for his tenants, he'll freak out. I saw the blood leave this man's face as he realized we had walked him down a path that we had walked him down. And so I, you know, my my role as the negotiator in that moment is to kind of like turn up

• 18:22Speaker 01

  the heat, like raise the stakes in the moment where we need his signature. So I reference back to his values and his religion and the way he wants to run his business. And then all of a sudden, he's like, well, now it's getting personal and, you know, this is this is not cool. You can't, this isn't good faith anymore. And I'm like, buddy, you told me this about yourself.

• 18:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:41Speaker 01

  Right? But this is so many of them is like, they think they're very happy living miles and miles away from people that they're that they're exploiting. Um, and it's important for us to remember when we're encountering them that they too wanna think of themselves as good people.

• 18:56Speaker 00

  Right.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  And that's critical in a negotiation is you gotta see that in someone and then help call them into that as painful as the process can be for that man.

• 19:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, I can't tell what's worse when someone like, it's certainly more rare when someone unabashedly is like, "I do not care about being a good person, this is about profit and you need to get comfortable with that."

• 19:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:16Speaker 00

  Or when it's that, or when it's, "No, I think I'm a good person and it's okay what I'm doing." I, I can't tell what would be more distressing to me as like a human being to sit across from, because both are so scary to me. The, the, "I think I'm a good person and what I'm doing is okay" certainly seems more common. I think most people doing bad think that they are good and they have their reasons and their justifications. But I'm just like, well, that is so scary. Like, look at the way people are living and you own this thing. Like, that's crazy.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:44Speaker 00

  I don't know what makes me more, yeah, I don't know what upsets me more.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  They're both troubling. They're both troubling. The other, the other version is like, I think people, you know, execs at these big firms that are buying up huge chunks of the market or whatever, they're so separate, they're so separate, they've obscured their ownership and their connection to the property so much that I think they've convinced themselves they're not even connected to what's going on on the ground. It's just, it's like numbers in a spreadsheet type stuff. And, um, yeah, I think that's the only way you could sleep at night is by really separating yourself. But both, any way you slice it, it's bad. It's extractive, it's sad. I, I don't know how people, um, I don't know how people can like deal with themselves, look at themselves when they're involved in business like that.

• 20:30Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, I don't either. That's why I don't think about it when I'm doing it.

• 20:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You're, you've removed yourself, it's numbers on a spreadsheet.

• 20:39Speaker 00

  Yes. I actually tell these guys sometimes, I say, "You are a number on a spreadsheet."

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:44Speaker 00

  I say that when I walk in the, just to remind everyone.

• 20:46Speaker 01

  Who's number one?

• 20:47Speaker 00

  On the spreadsheet?

• 20:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:49Speaker 00

  They're all accro, it's basically the spreadsheet is set up to where at the very top, like A1 is me.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 20:54Speaker 00

  And then there's just money signs and smiley faces on either side.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 20:57Speaker 00

  And then about 70 cells down, they are all equal on a plane.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:02Speaker 00

  And it's like sad faces and like that kind of stuff.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  Sure. Okay.

• 21:05Speaker 00

  That's the spreadsheet.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  And that's how the empire is built, everyone. Pay attention.

• 21:09Speaker 00

  That's the technical spreadsheet that runs the business.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  You wanna get like Caleb, build yourself a spreadsheet like this. You should start. Doing like Get Rich Quick instructional videos or something. Transform the pod.

• 21:20Speaker 00

  I'm doing something so much more annoying, which is I'm privately talking to every podcaster I know about why they're not do running their business correctly. I'm privately going, you're not paying your people enough. This is embarrassing.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  There you go. Okay, King.

• 21:30Speaker 00

  So I'm actually doing something way worse.

• 21:32Speaker 01

  Raising the bar in the podcasting industry. We love it.

• 21:34Speaker 00

  God, no one listens.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  We love it, though. We love it. That's my influence, by the way.

• 21:39Speaker 00

  That is not your influence.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  Anything good you're doing, I'm just gonna be like, that's my influence. That's my influence. I organized him on a dance floor years ago. That's my, you know, that's my boy.

• 21:46Speaker 00

  You have a lot of influence in my life. You do have a lot of influence in my life. What do you think of me? Good and bad?

• 21:53Speaker 00

  You go first and then I'll do you.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  Okay, here's what I think of you. A couple weeks ago.

• 21:59Speaker 00

  Tara!

• 22:00Speaker 01

  A couple weeks ago.

• 22:01Speaker 00

  Don't make it time specific.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  A couple weeks ago, you called me on this podcast.

• 22:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:08Speaker 01

  You had Sereni on. You called me on this podcast. You accused me of not following through on a plan with you.

• 22:16Speaker 00

  Which one's my camera?

• 22:16Speaker 01

  And then I, and then I corrected the record and you called me all sorts of names. You called me a charlatan.

• 22:23Speaker 00

  Right.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  You called me a fake.

• 22:24Speaker 00

  In my defense, you're often.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  You called me a fraud. You called me a conniving brown vixen. It got racial.

• 22:30Speaker 00

  Conniving brown vixen is my nickname for you. In fairness, that's something sweet we agreed upon a long time ago.

• 22:38Speaker 01

  I didn't sign anything. I didn't agree to anything.

• 22:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  Okay, what do I think of you? So I think, I mean, basically, I think you're fake as shit, based on that interaction, right? Beyond that, though, I mean.

• 22:49Speaker 00

  Nicole cut all this.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  I think you're, I think you're a good friend. I think you are, I think you're really thoughtful about where you're headed in life. And you're ambitious, which is the thing I think is most fascinating about you. You're not apologizing for. Wanting to do the things you want to do for having a big, cool, interesting life, for wanting your life to get bigger. Yeah, I love that you're kind of equal parts ambitious and thoughtful and deliberate about each step. And by now, I feel like we've known each other long enough that I've seen you sort of, your life has gotten

• 23:28Speaker 01

  bigger and bigger and you're no less thoughtful, no less generous. So I mostly, I mostly think good things about you, which is a little bit of a boring take to have on your podcast, but.

• 23:39Speaker 00

  Do you think, well, no, this actually did lead to something interesting, though. Do you think that, other than just you saying something sweet to me, which is nice, do you think that ambition and thoughtfulness are usually like decoupled? Do you think those things are not typically together?

• 23:51Speaker 01

  I think the world is not set up such that most people are able to be deeply thoughtful while also gunning for something, hustling for the next thing that they're going to achieve. And I think often, you know, people like sell out or get swept up in the life that they want and they lose sight of some of the things that matter to them or the people that matter to them. But I think you've, you've like seen that from a million miles away. And as your star has risen, you've been really thoughtful about not letting that happen to you. And, you know, I, one of, one of the main things I've been thinking about related to you recently is I'm like, my king is taking care of himself right now.

• 24:34Speaker 00

  Hello?

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Seventy-five Caleb.

• 24:36Speaker 00

  Seventy-five Caleb.

• 24:36Speaker 01

  Have I or have I not been checking in to be like, how's it going?

• 24:39Speaker 00

  You've checked in on seventy-five Caleb, in a way that feels mostly loving, borderline hateful.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  What's the hate?

• 24:45Speaker 00

  Sometimes your accountability can feel like a knife.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 24:53Speaker 00

  Comedy royalty Kate McKinnon returns as Queen Mortuana in Heads Will Roll: A Parent, the highly anticipated sequel to Audible's fan favorite original comedy series. She's flanked once more by co-star Emily Lynn and a new star-studded ensemble, including Richard Kind, Lori Metcalf, Jimmy Fallon, Megan Mullally, Sam Richardson, and Carrie Coon, plus an extensive Cast of other comedy greats. Queen Moe is back on the throne in Era Parent and facing her greatest challenge yet. Produce an heir before her 40th birthday or lose everything and spend eternity as keeper of the minstuary. Part medieval mayhem, part razor sharp social commentary, Heads Will Roll: Era Parent is fantasy comedy for the ages. It has everything.

• 25:36Speaker 00

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• 26:20Speaker 00

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• 27:05Speaker 00

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• 27:16Speaker 00

  No, I'm kidding. You're one of the most loving people I know.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  Oh, my god. Okay.

• 27:19Speaker 00

  You're so good.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  Say that straight to camera.

• 27:21Speaker 00

  You're so good at loving people. You really take care of everybody in your life. I'm shocked at the capacity that you have for love.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  You're so sweet.

• 27:26Speaker 00

  You're obsessed with power and winning in a way that I think is so inspiring.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  Thank you so much.

• 27:31Speaker 00

  I love how much you wanna defeat. I love how much you wanna win, especially for people that you don't have to love as much as you do. Like, it would be very easy for you to not care as much as you do about the things you care about, and I'm so grateful that you do and are, because without you, I don't think I would be... I think I would have stayed disengaged had I not become friends with you. I think I would have just stayed like where I was, which is like I donated a little bit of money every once in a while to a couple of things I believed in. I voted the way that I thought was correct. But really, after like 2016 Bernie situation, I really feel like I was not completely disengaged, but I certainly was not engaged at the level that I am now, and that really changed when I met you. I think you have fundamentally changed my life,

• 28:14Speaker 00

  and hopefully, if there's any reason for me to be doing this job where I fucking talk every hour, every week for an hour about myself and whoever I'm with, if there's any good that comes from it, I hope that maybe it helps other people see the world the way that we see it.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  You know, that's so sweet. Thank you for saying all of that. You're like, "And you're a conniving brown vixen," but yeah.

• 28:36Speaker 00

  That underlies...

• 28:37Speaker 01

  That underlies everything. That sweet nickname underlies it all. But no, the thing that's really cool, actually, is because we're friends, there's like a lot more and different kinds of people who are getting involved in the tenant movement than ever before. I told you that like I was at an event in Chinatown a couple of weeks ago, and on my way out the door, this person stopped me and was like, "I went to union school last summer." Union school is this like big virtual training that we do to teach people how to organize their building and across portfolios. And I was like, "Wow, that's awesome. How did you hear about it?" And the guy was like, "I follow Caleb on Instagram." And I was like, "That's my guy. Bringing people in."

• 29:18Speaker 00

  The first time in...

• 29:18Speaker 01

  Inviting people to the party.

• 29:19Speaker 00

  Inviting people to the party. The first time in years that I felt that my being on Instagram was worth a single thing. Yeah, I think it's nice. I think my job is a lot easier when I can view it as like an opportunity to...

• 29:33Speaker 00

  Like, share my view of the world and hopefully like make people laugh and make people feel better about everything that's going on and less like, I want more followers and more money, you know, that part makes me really ill. So it's nice to have maybe even, even if it's a false perspective, it's nice to have it, you know?

• 29:47Speaker 01

  The accountability is a knife line is really still sitting with me.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  So if you're gonna, if you're gonna just put that into the world, one thing I do need to hold you accountable to is, I've been wanting you to write something about artificial intelligence.

• 30:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, artificial intelligence.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  And you have a lot of thoughts on AI and I sort of don't understand why you haven't taken my call to write something yet.

• 30:12Speaker 00

  I have been creatively for about seven or eight months in a space that I could only describe as completely confused. I do not know what I want. I do not know what I'm doing creatively. I, I don't know what I view this podcast as. I don't necessarily view it as a creative endeavor on my end.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  You don't think we're making something right now?

• 30:31Speaker 00

  We are making something right now, certainly. We're all, I, we're always making something.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 30:34Speaker 00

  But I, I don't view it as maybe like, I don't know, I view it as a separate thing. It feels like it's own separate thing that I love and have a lot of appreciation for. And I'm really grateful for it. I've learned a ton from it. Like, I love this podcast, but I don't view it as the same, the same as writing or performing or the other things that I do creatively. And I don't, I can't even fully describe what I think the difference is. However, I do think I should write something. I just saw before we started recording that Google and, Google is giving a twenty-four seventy-five million dollars to do like AI. They're being really stealth about the way they're describing it. They're like, tools to help filmmakers. And so I'm like, that's a new thing, not a new thing. That's a thing they're doing a lot with this AI stuff right now is they're trying to obscure it and being like,

• 31:19Speaker 00

  well, we're not going to use it to generate the images on the screen. We're only using it to help filmmakers storyboard. And it's like, right, well, that's someone's job that just got lost.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  And that's one's brain and their whole thought process.

• 31:29Speaker 00

  The image on the screen, like, and also when you storyboard with a, a theft technology, which is what generative AI is, it's a theft technology. All it can do, inherently and definitionally is steal from reference images that were made by humans. Then then theft is in the DNA and the foundation of your project. Regardless of if you generated the background of the fucking scene with generative AI. Theft is in the DNA of your project and it should make you fucking sick. It doesn't make them sick, they don't care. But I really, really, really don't understand why so many like A24 is a great example of why fucking do it?

• 32:05Speaker 01

  What I need you to do is take those words you just said, write it up and put it out. And the reason I keep pushing you on this is it has to do with what we were saying about the left before, where the left can be like purist and exclusionary and whatever. The left can also be lazy and I've been feeling this about.

• 32:23Speaker 00

  Put your hands up.

• 32:26Speaker 00

  The lazy left is president accounted for. Everybody make some noise.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  The lazy left is in the house. No, but the.

• 32:34Speaker 00

  My whole team is the lazy left.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  The lazy left one, the lazy left two, the lazy left three.

• 32:39Speaker 00

  The spreadsheet is called the lazy left.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  The lazy left and A1 is you, honey.

• 32:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, I only employ the lazy left and it starts at the top.

• 32:45Speaker 01

  Right, and A1 is you and A1 is you. But I think the left can be a little lazy about topics like AI.

• 32:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:52Speaker 01

  Where there's such a knee jerk, like fuck AI, it all sucks. You know, anyone's cooked who's using chat GPT and whatever. And while I might agree with some of those sentiments, I am a little bit like, there's some irony to me in us uh us having that kind of view that's fundamentally about protecting our cognition.

• 33:13Speaker 00

  Right.

• 33:14Speaker 01

  But then not engaging our cognition to actually have a grounded, interesting, nuanced critique. Uh that that's engaging with like the reality of what's unfolding around us. So this is why I'm pushing you. This is why I'm asking you, I'm inviting you to abandon the lazy left, maybe just for an afternoon.

• 33:33Speaker 00

  That's my family.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  And write up, write up some of your ideas about AI. Cause I, I think you have such a unique perspective as someone who um yeah, whose life is the way it is. You create things for a living, you make people laugh for a living. You have something to offer the world that only a human can offer. And I think you're seeing things happen in the industry that you're also part of that uh that people need to hear about.

• 33:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, I the you and I have talked a lot about this uh in the real world, but off these mics.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:04Speaker 00

  About how ironic it is that people are. You said a little bit about it, but the people are basically like, the defense, the criticism of AI is that it's gonna destroy our ability to think critically and put ideas together on our own and use our brains for what they were intended to do. And then, so many people criticizing AI are just like, fuck it wholesale.

• 34:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 34:26Speaker 00

  There's no reason to step out my argument. There's no reason to make the case because it's just bad and it's labeled bad and we shouldn't do it.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 34:32Speaker 00

  And that inherently is a thoughtless, like uncritical, uninteresting condemnation of the thing.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 34:37Speaker 00

  Um, yeah, I do think that's interesting and I do have thoughtful things to say about it. I just, I get so... This more than most things right now, there are plenty of other things that make me feel this way, but the AI conversation more than most things right now, when I sit with it for too long, I get whole, I get so sad and upset and like, I'm just like, in a way that I'm like, it actually destroys my day. Like I'm unable to have the rest of my day.

• 35:05Speaker 01

  You're like, you ruined my day just now.

• 35:06Speaker 00

  No, you haven't, but it could. Like, I really could sit and think about it and just go like, what are we doing? I mean, I feel this way about so many things. I feel this way about rich people that don't wanna share their money. I feel this way about, of course, the AI stuff. I feel this way about, uh, you know, like, more obvious things that would feel like honestly stupid to even say out loud because it's so obvious. But I'm just like, these things, and I'm just like, why? Why do we have to live this way?

• 35:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 35:28Speaker 00

  The AI shit, I'm just like, for what? Why do you need 75 million dollars from Google A24? Aren't you doing very well?

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 35:34Speaker 00

  Must you do this? Wouldn't it be way cooler? That's the thing, no one's cool. No one's cool.

• 35:39Speaker 01

  No one's cool. And, as you've often said, shit is cool because you do it, because you make it cool, whatever. Like, you know, my role as an organizer in this moment is to be like, instead of despair, Caleb.

• 35:50Speaker 00

  I know, Tara.

• 35:51Speaker 01

  Why don't we choose the delusion that something could be better and that you might have a role to play in making something better? Did you just pout?

• 35:59Speaker 00

  At my camera.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  At your camera.

• 36:01Speaker 00

  Caleb cam is a really important camera on the show.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  Is this my cam?

• 36:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, Tara cam.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  I should've been pouting there when you called me all those racist names.

• 36:09Speaker 00

  You can pout at Tara. Anytime I have to say something racist, you are allowed to pout at Tara cam.

• 36:12Speaker 01

  Thank you so much for that permission.

• 36:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're welcome. I'm a benevolent racist.

• 36:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what people are saying. Benevolent, racist, slumlord, empire builder, Caleb.

• 36:23Speaker 00

  We should, yeah, right there, we should do like a freeze frame and like hearts, like an I love Lucy kind of like. At that description of me.

• 36:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, just edit all those nice things I said about you before when you were like, what do you think of me? Cut all of that, cut all of that.

• 36:35Speaker 00

  I think that'd be beautiful.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:36Speaker 00

  What's going on in your love life?

• 36:38Speaker 01

  In my love life?

• 36:39Speaker 00

  Enough of this convenient organizing talk. What's going on in your love life?

• 36:43Speaker 01

  You want me to talk about my love life on the pod?

• 36:45Speaker 00

  Tell me what you're comfortable telling me about your heart and love and dating. Cause you're new to New York.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  I'm new.

• 36:50Speaker 00

  You're spending more time in New York right now. You've not left Kansas City. You're much like me. You're splitting time.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  I'm splitting time.

• 36:55Speaker 00

  But you're.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  Which is something, by the way, I don't have the financial means to do.

• 36:59Speaker 00

  Right, I'll just say it. We're splitting time in different ways.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  We're splitting time in different ways. I have a sublet in Crown Heights where the drinking water is not safe for me. It's not safe for me. So you and I, yeah, our lifestyles are so similar in some ways. And then so different in other ways.

• 37:18Speaker 00

  Completely, and I accept any knowledge, but I will say part of both of our like attraction to New York at the time we got attracted to it.

• 37:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:25Speaker 00

  There are many things, like there were work reasons for both of us or whatever, but one big part was like my, I do not think the love of my life is where I've been spending most of my time and I need to switch it up.

• 37:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. My love life, I mean, it's a good question. You're actually the only person I would ever talk to about this in this kind of format. So I'm a little like flustered. I, I want love in my life. I'm a big romantic. I want big love, nothing less. Yeah, Kansas City was hard for that, I would say. It's impossible. It's near impossible. People sometimes are like, it can't be impossible. What are you talking about? And I'm like, no, no, no, like statistically, there are just not that many people of a relatively age appropriate range, like in our worlds in any way.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  Just when you, when you get down to it, it's like, there's like three people to date in the whole city and like, I went out with all of them. And seven years later, here I am.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I'm, I'm, I'm open. I'm looking. I really like dating is the thing. Yeah, I really like dating. I find people fascinating. I love to talk to people whose lives are completely different from mine. I have a lot of fun on dates. You and I have talked about though, the struggle of being a sort of conversational top.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  And that's, that's tough on a date, on a date with like a straight man. Uh, if you're a good talker, which you're like a better talker than me. So perhaps I'm not like showing my strongest suit here, but like relative to a lot of like straight men I'm out with sometimes. Um, yeah, it's tough. Like sometimes you can just like run some circles around someone. I can entertain myself for hours and then I come out of it and I'm like, what was that even?

• 39:17Speaker 00

  And I could tee you up. That's the other thing is I can help you even be good at it.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:21Speaker 00

  I, you're being boring. I can be like, I, I can, I know how to orchestrate the evening to where it almost, I can fool myself into thinking that you were a fun person to talk to.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 39:30Speaker 00

  And I, that's not something I want to do. I want to be like taken by surprise and like, uh, matched.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  Yep, yep.

• 39:35Speaker 00

  But yeah, it's fucking hard.

• 39:36Speaker 01

  It's hard.

• 39:37Speaker 00

  I went on a date the other night with a guy who I was certain was not into it. Like, like I was like, he can't be into it. He's being so boring. He must be like waiting for this date to end.

• 39:46Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 39:46Speaker 00

  And I was like, that is seems impossible to me, but it has to be his truth. And then after we, I'm, so I, as soon as I can get the check, I get the check, I pay gentleman. And we leave and then he initiates like a pretty serious make out with me.

• 39:59Speaker 01

  Really?

• 40:00Speaker 00

  After we leave. And it was hot and I was really into it, of course. But I was like, wow, so something is happening where you thought this went so well that we should do a serious make out on the street. Hot, love it. But we need to take that energy and turn it into five questions.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 40:17Speaker 00

  For me on the day.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  At least, minimum, minimum five, minimum fives.

• 40:22Speaker 00

  At least five good questions on the day.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Minimum five, but I, but I think the thing I'm getting from that story is like, you rocked this man's world.

• 40:29Speaker 00

  I know.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  You rocked this man's world. How is he gonna, how could he find a question when you're in the middle of a dazzling performance as you always are?

• 40:37Speaker 00

  Tara Trust, I have learned to leave space.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:40Speaker 00

  Cause that was, that was the other thing is I used to just like fucking like, I'd be like, oh, I, I would feel successful if I was able to do that.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:46Speaker 00

  And then somewhere in my mid twenties, I was like, you are doing yourself a disservice.

• 40:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:50Speaker 00

  You need to like, give people real opportunities to rise to the occasion.

• 40:54Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 40:55Speaker 00

  Cause I want to be wowed. I want to be rocked.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  It's gonna take a lot to wow someone like you and to surprise someone like you. And I, I, I don't know that you're gonna find that in like a 25. Year old package.

• 41:08Speaker 00

  Let's get into it.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  Let's get into it.

• 41:10Speaker 00

  A lot of forty five year old gay men who are interested in dating someone fourteen years younger than them. They're not looking for a fat guy. They're looking for a twink.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 41:17Speaker 00

  And so I'm just saying, and I'm not, I am not making myself the victim. I have a wonderful, beautiful sex and dating and love life, okay?

• 41:23Speaker 01

  Gorge.

• 41:24Speaker 00

  I love being fat, everything's cool. I have gotten a little less fat recently, that was mostly an accident and a mistake.

• 41:32Speaker 00

  There have been no shots involved, a surgeon has not been spoken with.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  You're on the record, no shots.

• 41:37Speaker 00

  I'm not doing Ozempic.

• 41:37Speaker 01

  You're not doing it.

• 41:38Speaker 00

  I'm not a quitter.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  What, can I ask, what happened?

• 41:43Speaker 00

  We'll leave it, but we'll at least leave in that I was kidding.

• 41:45Speaker 01

  That I was kidding.

• 41:46Speaker 00

  I've got some friends on Ozempic and they have really legitimate reasons to be there.

• 41:49Speaker 01

  For sure, wait, so can I ask, why have you accidentally lost weight recently?

• 41:53Speaker 00

  Well, a lot of things have happened. Basically, I moved to New York.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:58Speaker 00

  So I'm walking, biking everywhere.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  You're in a calorie deficit constantly.

• 42:01Speaker 00

  Well, no.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  No.

• 42:03Speaker 00

  But, because you wouldn't believe the amount of calories I can eat, but I am walking, biking all the time.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:07Speaker 00

  And then what happened was last year, I was filming something like almost every day of the year.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 42:13Speaker 00

  And so I wasn't eating after like ten PM because I had to be asleep because I had a four AM pickup.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 42:19Speaker 00

  So it was this weird thing with my schedule where I was like, my stomach can't be upset because I only have access to a porta potty on set with like the crew.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:27Speaker 00

  I'm not doing that. So I need to be like, my stomach needs to be not upset and I also am not up late to be having late night food.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:35Speaker 00

  Those things happened, all in all resulted in me losing, although I will say, I just did Seth Meyers and I, for some reason, looked at some of the comments, which is something I have gotten so much better about, but I briefly fell back down to earth. And people, their comments were mixed, the facial hair makes him look old and like a pedo. The facial hair makes him look handsome and attractive, he looks like he's gained a hundred pounds, he looks like he's lost a hundred pounds.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  Gained a hundred pounds is crazy.

• 42:59Speaker 00

  That's mean!

• 43:00Speaker 01

  That's mean, that's mean and incorrect. I for one, thought the facial hair was really cute.

• 43:05Speaker 00

  You think so?

• 43:06Speaker 01

  I thought it like, well, you have a nice tan right now and I thought it was, it was sort of like grisly, it was, it was giving a little bit like forty five year old men, I'm here, I'm open for business, you know?

• 43:16Speaker 00

  And I'm saying.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  You look mature.

• 43:17Speaker 00

  If there, I am putting this on the record right now. Put some inspirational music under this.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:21Speaker 00

  Forty-five-year-old men.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  The pod has really changed.

• 43:23Speaker 00

  Thirty-five.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  You've got all these effects.

• 43:25Speaker 00

  Thirty-five to forty-five-year-old men.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  Forty-five, okay.

• 43:31Speaker 00

  North End is probably forty-five.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  We named an upper limit, finally.

• 43:34Speaker 00

  I am thirty-one years old. It can't go higher than forty-five.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  It can't go higher than that, yeah.

• 43:37Speaker 00

  If you are in the, if you are twenty-seven to forty-five years old, and you want to sweep me off my feet, come around.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  What would it take? What would it take for Amanda to really sweep you off your feet?

• 43:46Speaker 00

  Charm, questions, participation, making plans, being available at every moment that I want you available.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:52Speaker 00

  Having an interesting life, yet being completely flexible to what I need.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  In the beginning, I was like, that's not too much to ask, sweetie. And then you kept going, and I was like, okay, well.

• 43:59Speaker 00

  Dropping everything when I call.

• 44:00Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 44:01Speaker 00

  If I call and you have plans and I say I want to hang out tonight, you say, I will cancel everything and be there.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:05Speaker 00

  Except for, sometimes when I do that, you have to not cancel and do your own thing so that I don't get turned off by you.

• 44:11Speaker 01

  Totally, totally.

• 44:12Speaker 00

  You have to innately understand the magic of that balance.

• 44:18Speaker 00

  You have to simulta- You have to simultaneously be completely obsessed with me and also unwilling to bend to my demands.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  Sure. I, I mean, my head is like filling with guys I know who might be perfect for this.

• 44:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, what am I asking the world here?

• 44:32Speaker 01

  No, not at all, not at all. Very simple, not at all crazy demands.

• 44:37Speaker 00

  That's what I'm saying.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:38Speaker 00

  And, and you have to like, you have to fight with me about the checks sometimes. I'm always gonna pay it, unless you're richer than me.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:44Speaker 00

  If you're richer than me, I'd love to know who you are.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:47Speaker 00

  But if you're-

• 44:52Speaker 00

  I'd have to, I'd have to go out with freaking Elon Musk or something.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  You're getting it like that from the pod, damn.

• 44:58Speaker 00

  No.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  Are boots okay on here, by the way?

• 45:00Speaker 00

  No, that's fine, we love those. Um, no, but if, if you're, if you're richer than me, sometimes I might let you pay. But if you're not, you need to at least fight about the check every once in a while. Put up an effort.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  I want some transparency on what you're making from this podcast. That comment was crazy.

• 45:12Speaker 00

  I'll tell you off camera.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  Off camera?

• 45:13Speaker 00

  It's more than you think.

• 45:17Speaker 01

  And then, and-

• 45:18Speaker 00

  More than you think.

• 45:18Speaker 01

  And in the beginning, you're still like, when I'm asking you about, you know, casually being like, maybe you'll do an ad for the tenant union or one of our trainings or something. You're like, honey, you can't afford me.

• 45:27Speaker 00

  I would happily do an ad for the tenant union.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  You can't do a pro bono ad for the tenant union?

• 45:31Speaker 00

  You guys put on a bake sale or a talent show or something?

• 45:34Speaker 01

  A bake sale!

• 45:34Speaker 00

  And you get that money over here?

• 45:36Speaker 01

  I mean, I'll do what I can.

• 45:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, you guys pay me, because I do a lot for you guys.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, you do, actually.

• 45:41Speaker 00

  And so I think the least you can do-

• 45:43Speaker 01

  You do.

• 45:44Speaker 00

  Pay the rate.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  You do a lot for us, and I will say, there's so much. People, people are always asking me to get you to do stuff. And I'm a good, I offered you this the other night. You were like, out dancing and, and bummed out that people wouldn't leave you alone on the dance floor.

• 45:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:57Speaker 01

  And I was like, let me be your security.

• 45:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  If I was on the dance floor with you, no one would be coming close. We'd be dancing.

• 46:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:03Speaker 01

  We'd be dancing. I know, you know, I don't maybe physically give off the most intimidating vibe.

• 46:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:09Speaker 01

  But someone catching my eye contact in the wrong moment, who's not letting you dance, they're gonna leave you alone.

• 46:15Speaker 00

  Keep in mind, we're sitting here because you bothered me on a dance floor.

• 46:17Speaker 01

  That's correct. That's correct. But that, that was on my watch, that's the last time that's ever gonna happen to you.

• 46:23Speaker 00

  That was the last one.

• 46:24Speaker 01

  That was the last. That was, that was the last time, right. The buck stops here with me, with me.

• 46:29Speaker 00

  Hey, look, when it comes to me and love, I got a lot of it to give. I'm a special guy. I have a big heart.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, you sure do.

• 46:36Speaker 00

  I got a lot of, I got a lot of things to give to somebody.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Big heart, no shots.

• 46:41Speaker 00

  Big heart, no weight loss shots. I'm up on all my other things, though.

• 46:44Speaker 01

  Extremely rich.

• 46:45Speaker 00

  I get tested regularly. I'm doing well financially. I'm ready to have kids in the next four to five years.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Four to five years?

• 46:51Speaker 00

  Next four to five years, I'm ready to have a baby on the way. Ultimately, I want a couple.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  How do you, how do you think you are with kids right now?

• 46:58Speaker 00

  They understand me and they respect me.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  Really?

• 47:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  And how do you earn their respect?

• 47:02Speaker 00

  Because I talk to them like adults.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  I don't think I've ever seen you with, well, I've seen you with your little nephews.

• 47:07Speaker 00

  And you see how they fall in line.

• 47:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, they do kinda fall in line. You're a bit of a disciplinarian, now that I think about it.

• 47:12Speaker 00

  Oh, we're not having tomfoolery.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no.

• 47:15Speaker 00

  Because I, yeah, no.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  The kid, the kids are sort of, yeah, now that I'm thinking about it, when I've seen you with those kids at Thanksgiving, yeah, they're, they're sort of like falling in line with whatever you say, actually.

• 47:25Speaker 00

  You know, it's, they're, they're, not enough, but they're, it's, I think what it is, is just that being able to tell kids the truth. Like, there, there comes a point with the showing me your toys, where I go, we're all done listening about the toys.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:37Speaker 00

  Take them back to the other room.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  No one's really paying attention anymore, sweetie.

• 47:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, we're on the 17th minute of Legos. We've seen the Legos.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  What would you do about screens if you were a parent?

• 47:46Speaker 00

  None.

• 47:46Speaker 01

  No screens?

• 47:47Speaker 00

  They get none, and they can't use mine either.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  They get none, you have some. How do you talk to them about that difference?

• 47:53Speaker 00

  I say, "You're not old enough for this. It's, it's, it will hurt you."

• 47:55Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 47:56Speaker 00

  Stay off this. They're not getting their own screens.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:58Speaker 00

  My kids are not having their own screens. They can have a phone when they get their driver's license.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 48:03Speaker 00

  And it'll be a flip phone.

• 48:04Speaker 01

  A flip phone?

• 48:05Speaker 00

  They can have a flip phone when they get their driver's license. They cannot have social media.

• 48:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:08Speaker 00

  There will be no tablets.

• 48:09Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 48:10Speaker 00

  And I say all that as someone who doesn't have kids.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:12Speaker 00

  And I bet there's some parents listening right now going, "Yeah, good fucking luck, buddy." And I bet they're right. I bet, I bet my kids will have a screen the day they're born.

• 48:21Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 48:22Speaker 00

  I bet I'm sa- right now, my intention-

• 48:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, my intention is no screens whatsoever.

• 48:27Speaker 00

  Going in is no screens. The reality is probably they get a screen at the hospital.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  Okay, okay. So the truth comes out.

• 48:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:33Speaker 01

  There's a lot of truth coming out today.

• 48:35Speaker 00

  Wake it up.

• 48:36Speaker 01

  Wake it up.

• 48:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's me.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  What were you, were you, um, did your mom say yes to you a lot growing up?

• 48:41Speaker 00

  Uh, we were extremely poor, so she said yes when she could, but it wasn't like there was a lot to, uh, of opportunity.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 48:48Speaker 00

  I was asking for things. I, I would say when I was younger, I was asking for things that just weren't possible.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  What were your dreams? What were you asking for?

• 48:53Speaker 00

  To be rich.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 48:54Speaker 00

  To have more than we did.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  Mom, can we be rich?

• 48:57Speaker 00

  To wear name brand clothes.

• 48:58Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 48:58Speaker 00

  Mom, can I wear Under Armour? She'd say, "Well, it depends on what Goodwill has." And I'd say, "Disgusting."

• 49:02Speaker 01

  Gross.

• 49:02Speaker 00

  They'd be so mad when she would come home with Goodwill stuff, yeah.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 49:05Speaker 00

  Because it was never cool stuff. It was like all the cool kids had like the new stuff.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:08Speaker 00

  You know?

• 49:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:09Speaker 00

  And I look back now and I'm like, "That was actually really cool. My mom rocks." But as a kid, you don't have, like, perspective.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:15Speaker 00

  You're like, "Ew, I want to be like everyone else."

• 49:17Speaker 01

  But she was trying. Like, when you would say a dream to her, she'd be like, "Okay, let me try to figure out how to make some version of this happen."

• 49:22Speaker 00

  She would, and I will say, she made sure I went on ev- every school trip. Like, there were a bunch of, like, we would go to Washington DC, or we'd go to Orlando for, like, conferences and stuff and, like, competitions. She, I went to every single one, and I, looking back, I'm like, "We could not afford that." I don't know how she made it work.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 49:36Speaker 00

  She certainly skipped some meals.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, crazy. My kids, look, if the money stops flowing, they're not going to Orlando.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  The money stops flowing. I'm not skipping any meals.

• 49:48Speaker 00

  They are not skipping meals. They're not going anywhere.

• 49:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:51Speaker 00

  I will say, an interesting thing to consider is like, I grew up so poor and I feel like it made me a good person. Like, I like my values.

• 49:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:59Speaker 00

  And I'm like, whoa, if, I, I want my kid, I want to like replicate that for my kids somehow. I would like them to struggle.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, you want to force them into poverty somehow.

• 50:07Speaker 00

  Yes, I want to like, make sure they don't listen to any of these episodes or like, see any of my lifestyle beyond like, okay, they'll live in my house.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 50:14Speaker 00

  But I want them to think-

• 50:15Speaker 01

  But in a sort of like, small and dusty area of the house.

• 50:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I want them to think we got it through some other, I want to be like, oh, this was left to me or something, you know?

• 50:21Speaker 01

  This was left to me.

• 50:22Speaker 00

  And I want them to think we have money.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 50:24Speaker 00

  And they're going to public school.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, of cour-, I mean, of course.

• 50:27Speaker 00

  No private schools.

• 50:27Speaker 01

  No private schools, no private schools.

• 50:28Speaker 00

  Private schools make me sick.

• 50:30Speaker 01

  Really?

• 50:30Speaker 00

  What are you talking about?

• 50:31Speaker 01

  Say more about that.

• 50:31Speaker 00

  I think that's sick.

• 50:32Speaker 01

  This can go in your book of essays about politics and the world.

• 50:35Speaker 00

  Everybody go to public school.

• 50:36Speaker 01

  That I'm gonna help you write.

• 50:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  That we're writing right now.

• 50:38Speaker 00

  I wish, we need to write a movie together.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 50:40Speaker 00

  You know I've been big on that.

• 50:41Speaker 01

  I would die to write a movie with you.

• 50:43Speaker 00

  We need to write a movie together about that.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  Let's do it.

• 50:44Speaker 00

  Let's do it.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  Let's make it happen.

• 50:45Speaker 00

  Well, you know I have this, I have the shell of it. I have the shell of the movie already.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  You have the shell, tell me.

• 50:49Speaker 00

  Well, I can't tell you on here.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 50:51Speaker 00

  A lot of my listeners are thieves and crooks.

• 50:53Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a lot of thievery in the ca- celeb- celeb-ity community? Celeb-ity community.

• 50:58Speaker 00

  Celeb-ity, ca- lesbian, ca- Latina.

• 51:00Speaker 01

  Ca- Latina, congratulations on diversifying.

• 51:03Speaker 00

  The ca- Latinas, they, look-

• 51:04Speaker 01

  It's not just white lesbians anymore, baby.

• 51:06Speaker 00

  No, ca- Latinas brought themselves into the comments and they get mad when they don't get mentioned now.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  Okay, ca- Latina.

• 51:11Speaker 00

  I haven't seen many other ones, but I'd love to expand.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  Ca- l-ation, I don't know.

• 51:16Speaker 00

  Ca- l-ations, I would love to hear from you.

• 51:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:18Speaker 00

  Well, black, black ca- celebrities had a big moment recently.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  Really? And what do they call themselves?

• 51:22Speaker 00

  Uh, I think they just say, "I'm black and I like Caleb." That was mostly what I saw. Yeah, they weren't really going for a name, I'll say that. They weren't really trying to have their own name, the black fans.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  All right, hit the comments, everyone, hit the comments.

• 51:34Speaker 00

  So if, yeah, if you're a black Caleb fan-

• 51:36Speaker 01

  So what, what brought them out?

• 51:37Speaker 00

  I was talking to Joe Sunday.

• 51:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 51:39Speaker 00

  And she said, "What is the demographic makeup of your fandom?" And I said, "I don't know, but I know that there, I know that there are a lot of lesbians, of course I know that."

• 51:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:46Speaker 00

  And I said, "There are a surprising number of straight men."

• 51:48Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 51:49Speaker 00

  You would be shocked.

• 51:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:50Speaker 00

  And then I said, uh, somehow it came up whether or not I had- Black fans, I don't remember what the verdict was. But they let themselves be known.

• 51:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:58Speaker 00

  My black fans made some noise.

• 52:00Speaker 01

  There's definitely some black fans out there. We once went to an event that was like a mostly black event. And I feel like you got approached a bunch.

• 52:07Speaker 00

  That was the best night of my life.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  It was amazing.

• 52:08Speaker 00

  That was the best night of my life. Every, every cool, hot, well-dressed person in that room.

• 52:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:14Speaker 00

  Came up to me and it made, I could cry talking about it because that meant more to me than anything.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  Do you ever feel like sometimes when you're out with a friend that you have like really good energy with, you, the world kind of opens up for you?

• 52:26Speaker 00

  What do you mean?

• 52:27Speaker 01

  I'm just saying like that night, that like best night of your life, I feel like maybe I contributed a little bit.

• 52:32Speaker 00

  Oh, I understand. Sorry. You're asking if.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  If like our connection was so vibrant.

• 52:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  That people were kind of coming out of the woodwork to, to talk to you.

• 52:39Speaker 00

  Did I feel like that night really was about you?

• 52:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:42Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  That's essentially what I'm asking.

• 52:43Speaker 00

  I feel that all my nights are about you.

• 52:45Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 52:45Speaker 00

  I would do anything for you.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  Wow, that's so sweet.

• 52:47Speaker 00

  I hope you know and feel that.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  I do feel that, although we need to hang out a lot more, I think.

• 52:52Speaker 00

  Call me.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  For me to feel that, for the, for the truth to really settle in.

• 52:55Speaker 00

  Call me.

• 52:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I'll call you.

• 52:58Speaker 00

  You don't really call me.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  I call you sometimes.

• 53:00Speaker 00

  Nice.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  Please. The, the thing that, the thing that's annoying to me recently about calling and texting you is like, it's still green.

• 53:07Speaker 00

  Android.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, you still have an Android.

• 53:09Speaker 00

  Android.

• 53:09Speaker 01

  But you, so is that an Android? Like what I'm looking at as an Android?

• 53:12Speaker 00

  That's an Android.

• 53:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 53:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  You're really committing.

• 53:15Speaker 00

  I'm loving it.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:17Speaker 00

  I'm getting put on no group texts at all.

• 53:19Speaker 01

  Well, we have a very famous and ongoing.

• 53:22Speaker 00

  Hasn't really been going lately, has it?

• 53:23Speaker 01

  Hasn't really been going because I think we're all, we're all bummed out by your green text.

• 53:27Speaker 00

  I know, everybody hates the green text. Look, that is one of the group chats that I'm sad to see go. It's, it's a casualty in the crossfire.

• 53:33Speaker 01

  I'm like, damn, this is like a postmortem on our group chat.

• 53:36Speaker 00

  It's not really happening anymore and I hate that.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:38Speaker 00

  But if it means that I get left out of all these other ones that I want nothing to do with.

• 53:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:43Speaker 00

  It was either this or change my phone number. I'm getting put in too many things.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  What are people putting you into?

• 53:48Speaker 00

  Any fucking stupid thing. When you have an iPhone, people, people will put you in anything.

• 53:51Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 53:52Speaker 00

  A group text about lunch, where people text that they're five minutes late, that's fine. Just come on.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  The lunch text is ongoing? Like what's bothersome about that?

• 53:59Speaker 00

  Yes, because then people think there was a connection formed in the group text and sometimes there was or wasn't, but it's just too many texts. And people text you less in general when you have green texts. I'm telling you, iPhone people will do that thing all the time where they're like, oh my God, send. So the other day, send. I was at the store, send. Knock it off.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  Knock it off.

• 54:15Speaker 00

  People are sending less voice notes, people are...

• 54:18Speaker 01

  You don't want voice notes from your friends?

• 54:20Speaker 00

  When a lot of people think that it's okay to send you seven-minute voice notes,

• 54:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:24Speaker 00

  it increases your time on the phone.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  That's a lot.

• 54:26Speaker 00

  I love hearing from my friends. I'm not complaining about being so loved and a part of such beautiful community.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:32Speaker 00

  I love that. We're gonna have to find a different way to express that.

• 54:35Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 54:36Speaker 00

  Ideally, in person, together. I cannot be on the phone. The phone makes me sick.

• 54:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:40Speaker 00

  And that being said, I'm on there.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  You are on there. You are on there. I treat my voice notes from my friends as a little podcast. Yeah. Katie and I have a long voice note back and forth. She's amazing on a voice note. I'm like a rambling idiot. I'm talking for 11 minutes. I'm walking around. I'm pacing. I'm washing my dishes. You're getting all sorts of background noise. And then there's some people, like Katie, who's like a professional at voice notes. It's so coherent. It's kind of classically wise. She's got a lot of good advice for me. She's remembered every single thing I've said a week ago in my 11-minute ramble. It's beautiful. I'm not skilled, but I'm energetic. I'll think of some good anecdotes and weave them in.

• 55:21Speaker 00

  You and Kevin, I would say you and Kevin are, it's funny because our little four-person friend group is, there's many natural alliances. And one of the places that you and Kevin team up is on the long, meandering, kind of crazed voice note. And Katie and I are very much the same in style where it's like, tight, like to the, but all the little natural alliances that form are fun.

• 55:41Speaker 01

  They are really fun. You just made me think of one of our biggest rifts this year, this calendar year so far. I was really, I was having a rough beginning of the year, as you know. I was in Minneapolis during the height of the federal occupation. I had...

• 55:56Speaker 00

  You were working for ICE at the time, right?

• 56:01Speaker 00

  You were subcontracting for them for some reason and you were, yeah.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  That's my get-rich-quick scheme, actually. No, I was there, I was there launching a citieswide tenant union.

• 56:11Speaker 00

  I know, yeah.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  We were running a rent strike drive. There was a hundred seven million dollars in lost wages at the time of this occupation. And I had, I'd been in India and like flew back early and flew right into it and it was cold and my skin was peeling and shit was really hard and everyone there was like exhausted after basically two months of, of warfare and, um, and then I came back to Kansas City after all of that and, um, lost a dear friend. So I was like, I was really down bad for a while and you were being so sweet. You like called multiple times.

• 56:43Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  Left a voice note, left, uh, you know, sent me multiple text messages and-

• 56:48Speaker 00

  Basically, I just wanted to also add some flavor to that and say that I was like, I was really clocking in. I was like, Tara, I know you're going through such a hard time. I love you so much. Tell me, I want you to text me right now, three ways that I can support. Like, is it sending flowers? Is it buying groceries? Like, what can I do?

• 57:03Speaker 01

  It was practical. It was caring. Um, it was persistent and I was being avoidant and I am sometimes, but I, you know, I was like really down bad and not really getting back to anyone at that time. And then-

• 57:18Speaker 00

  Not a word from my friend.

• 57:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, not a word. I mean, actual weeks went by and like multiple unresponded to messages and then-

• 57:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:26Speaker 01

  Kevin hit the group chat.

• 57:27Speaker 00

  This is crazy.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  He was on a drive. He hit the group chat and he said-

• 57:31Speaker 00

  Kevin Morby, for those who don't know.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Kevin Morby, for those who don't know. He said, can someone in the chat read out loud to me the menu for the Marriott in this town in Texas that I'm going to tonight?

• 57:43Speaker 00

  He was driving and he wanted to know what was on the menu. So he thought it would be funny to ask, can anyone in the group chat send a voice note reading this menu out loud to me?

• 57:50Speaker 01

  And he had already asked Katie off thread-

• 57:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:53Speaker 01

  And she had been like, no, I'm absolutely not doing that crazy thing for you.

• 57:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  Meanwhile, me, after weeks of avoiding Caleb.

• 58:02Speaker 00

  I want to say 20 seconds passed between when Kevin sent the text and then a vo- a three, three minute and 47 second voice note from Tara comes in somehow. Somehow she's already done it. And this is, I click play and I'm thinking maybe the voice note's gonna be like, hey, guys, uh, just wanted to address that I like haven't really been getting back to anybody. I'm okay. Thank you for checking in. The voice note instead is, so they've got flounder three ways.

• 58:27Speaker 01

  They also had the craziest menu of all time. It was like the most random dishes. And I was really, I was having a ball reading all of it.

• 58:35Speaker 00

  Read every ingredient.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  I was early off a phone call, Caleb. I was early off a meeting. I had a couple of minutes to kill. It sounded like a fun, kind of zany way to spend a few minutes of my day.

• 58:45Speaker 00

  She's editorializing, "Ooh, this one has a cherry wine reduction."

• 58:49Speaker 01

  I'm like picking out things for Kevin that I think he would like.

• 58:52Speaker 00

  She's pairing wines.

• 58:53Speaker 01

  I'm telling him to sit at the bar for the best experience, you know? So I hit send and Caleb absolutely drags my ass in the chat.

• 59:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:03Speaker 00

  I think I said something along the lines of, "How fucking dare you."

• 59:05Speaker 01

  How dare you?

• 59:06Speaker 00

  "How dare you do this to me?"

• 59:07Speaker 01

  And I said, "I'm down bad." Like, I, I needed something fun in my life. I needed some lightness. I didn't want to tell you-

• 59:15Speaker 00

  Getting back to you was not sparking joy. I don't know what to tell you.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  I didn't want to tell you how to generously and sweetly take care of me. I wanted to read to Kevin about the shrimp at the Marriott.

• 59:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:27Speaker 01

  Okay?

• 59:28Speaker 00

  Made me sick.

• 59:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:29Speaker 00

  Made me completely sick.

• 59:30Speaker 01

  It took us a while to bounce back from that, but we're back.

• 59:32Speaker 00

  It took us a while, yeah. Took about 10 seconds. It's so fucking funny.

• 59:36Speaker 01

  We're back.

• 59:37Speaker 00

  I couldn't believe it. I was laughing so hard. I was like, "Tara, you must be kidding." Really killed me.

• 59:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:43Speaker 00

  You feel bounced back? You feel good?

• 59:45Speaker 01

  I feel good. I definitely was in a sort of mojo deficit for a second there. It's crazy because I love, um, I love my work so much and I feel so like called by it and motivated and it's so cool. Um, I feel really, really lucky. There are so few people who I think get to walk around planet Earth with the kind of purpose that I get to feel. So I always feel sort of bad then also, you know, feeling less than amazing about how things are going because it's great. It's not only like purposeful, we're winning. Like in that same bad season that I had earlier this year, we like won the first tenant bargain agreement in the American South. I got to have like four baked potatoes with an 80-year-old tobacco farmer named Pauline,

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  who I loved. Um, you know, we transitioned the leadership of Casey Tennants and, uh, Janaye Manley took over and- I'm so proud and so everything was going so well, but I was in a real mojo deficit for a second there. It's tough. I mean, I lost a really dear friend and I think when, um, when you're the type of person you and I are and our friends mean so much to us, um, yeah, that was like, that was a real hit, but I'm, I'm coming back. And somewhere in New York is great. The Knicks are winning. Championships are following me around. Like you, I'm a fair weather fan and if the weather's fair, the weather's fair.

• 1:01:02Speaker 00

  And I'm there. If the weather's fair, I'm there.

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, if the weather's fair, I'm there.

• 1:01:06Speaker 00

  Go Knicks.

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  Go Knicks. The Chiefs started winning when you and I came back to the city too.

• 1:01:10Speaker 00

  That's true.

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  To Kansas City, yeah.

• 1:01:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, once we reinvested.

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  And they never called me and said, thanks for that.

• 1:01:15Speaker 00

  No, I don't imagine I'll be on their call list anytime soon. They avoid me like the plague.

• 1:01:19Speaker 01

  You talk shit on them a lot.

• 1:01:20Speaker 00

  Well, they do stupid shit.

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  They do stupid shit. They're ultimately an extremely racist franchise, but you're a huge fan.

• 1:01:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  You love the coach, you love the players, you love football. You love football more than you love basketball.

• 1:01:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, they're not going to be inviting me to any games soon. They really avoid me. Every, every like person who has even stepped foot on a television set that's from Kansas City has like gotten a suite at their games.

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:40Speaker 00

  They don't talk to me, mostly because I say their, uh, fucked up Republican owners should stop begging the public for money when they're billionaires and they can pay for their own things.

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:48Speaker 00

  We can leave that in.

• 1:01:48Speaker 01

  And you did say that.

• 1:01:49Speaker 00

  I'm saying that all the time. Stop, stop asking working people to pay for your projects when you're a billionaire.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:01:55Speaker 00

  Not, I don't care how much we like your little football team and I do, I'm a huge fan. It's fucking inappropriate. It's ridiculous. You should be humiliated. The whole point of being a billionaire should be that you can fund your dumb little projects.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:05Speaker 00

  I hate it. It pisses me off.

• 1:02:06Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:02:07Speaker 00

  And yeah, I just don't like, I don't like, I don't like it. I don't like that.

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I can see why you're not getting invited there.

• 1:02:13Speaker 00

  For sure.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  Cozy little seats.

• 1:02:14Speaker 00

  Not a fun guy to have at the party.

• 1:02:16Speaker 01

  No, not, not a fun guy to have at that party, but a very fun guy to have at our parties.

• 1:02:19Speaker 00

  Hello, a better party.

• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  A better party.

• 1:02:21Speaker 00

  How, yeah, imagine how fucking cool life would be for them. Yeah, we would all like them more if they would stop doing that stuff. But I'm glad you're doing better.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:29Speaker 00

  I'm happy things are feeling good. Mojo is in the right place.

• 1:02:32Speaker 01

  Mojo's up.

• 1:02:33Speaker 00

  I had a really, really funny joke to make earlier and I'm not going to make it right now, but I just want you to remind me to tell it to you off camera.

• 1:02:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:02:39Speaker 00

  Um, it's a really good one.

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  It's a joke at my expense?

• 1:02:41Speaker 00

  Uh, it's a jo, it's a joke about your circumstance.

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:02:45Speaker 00

  Um, and I'll, and I'll tell it to you later. It's a really, it's a really, really good one. Everyone here is going to like it.

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, great.

• 1:02:49Speaker 00

  Um, Tara, what's so true to you?

• 1:02:51Speaker 01

  What is so true to me? I think everyone needs a semi stupid creative endeavor in their life.

• 1:02:58Speaker 00

  Okay, I absolutely agree.

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  You agree? What's yours?

• 1:03:01Speaker 00

  Semi stupid creative endeavor in my life? What is mine, you guys? What is my semi stupid creative endeavor?

• 1:03:09Speaker 02

  I don't, I was about to say the friendship bracelets, but you don't really, you're, you've kind of, you're off though.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  You were making friendship bracelets?

• 1:03:15Speaker 00

  There was a moment, there was a brief moment where I was making friendship bracelets.

• 1:03:18Speaker 01

  Interesting. And what, when was that moment?

• 1:03:20Speaker 00

  That was during the time when you weren't texting me back.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  Oh, I see, I see, I see.

• 1:03:24Speaker 00

  No, I'm just kidding, could you imagine?

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  So during that time that you were really, really sad and probably needed a friendship bracelet more than anything?

• 1:03:29Speaker 00

  Yeah. You didn't get one!

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't get one.

• 1:03:31Speaker 00

  I made my birthday invite last year and that was really fun.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  What did you make?

• 1:03:35Speaker 00

  I like, um, collaged all of the pictures from the previous year really thoughtfully.

• 1:03:40Speaker 01

  Sweet.

• 1:03:40Speaker 00

  Because basically I was like, I can't trust anyone but me to get this right because what I wanted to do was pick the craziest costumes and the most like representative of who was gonna be at the party.

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:49Speaker 00

  And I wanted every, anyone who looked at the invite to understand, number one, I'm safe to make a big costume choice.

• 1:03:54Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:03:54Speaker 00

  And in fact, you must or you need to leave.

• 1:03:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:56Speaker 00

  And number two, there is someone on this invite that looks like someone I'd like to kiss.

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:04:01Speaker 00

  Or have a really long talk with.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:04:03Speaker 00

  And so I very meticulously-

• 1:04:05Speaker 01

  A really long talk at the party.

• 1:04:06Speaker 00

  Oh, that's the kind of party I'm interested in. Get in the corner with someone and get into that talk.

• 1:04:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, dig in.

• 1:04:10Speaker 00

  So, I mean, there's an open bar and stuff as well, but I, I planned every single part of the invite really meticulously.

• 1:04:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:17Speaker 00

  It was really fun.

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  That's so sweet.

• 1:04:19Speaker 00

  It was really fun. But do I have an ongoing one? I don't think so. Most of my free time is spent worrying about why I'm not creating.

• 1:04:25Speaker 01

  Right, okay, okay.

• 1:04:26Speaker 00

  What is yours?

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  We'll work on that.

• 1:04:27Speaker 00

  The zines?

• 1:04:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:28Speaker 00

  I love your zines.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, my little zines. I've got a couple though. I mean, yeah, the zines are probably the most robust. But I like zines. I was gonna say, I think your invite thing is like a good, that's a good gateway to zine making. The reason that I like them is that it's just not serious. It's like, or, I mean, of course, they can be serious, but you don't have to be precious about it. The whole point is that it can be quick, it can be messy. I'm always making like a little like 90 minute something on the weekends. I'm working on a zine this summer about listening. Maybe you can submit a sonic journal. That could be a good push in a creative direction. You're like, what is that? Sounds horrible.

• 1:05:04Speaker 00

  What does that mean? I'm down.

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  Uh, sonic journal, it's like when you really listen for a chunk of time and then you kind of like write about what you heard. It's like a way of, like, sometimes I do it when I'm on a trip or something. Cause to me, it's a little bit more interesting than just being like, well, I did this and then I did this and then I did this. I'll be like, I woke up to the sound of dogs having a fight at 3 a.m. and I thought I was gonna die. And then I heard these bells and then I heard the gate open and it was such and such or whatever. That's like a, that's a real morning in my life in India when I'm there. But yeah, maybe you should submit a little sonic journal to my listening zine this summer.

• 1:05:37Speaker 00

  I'm down.

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 1:05:38Speaker 00

  Put it on the record. I'll do it.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  On the record? Wow.

• 1:05:41Speaker 00

  It's on the record.

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  You're like, honey, you can't afford me.

• 1:05:43Speaker 00

  Well, it would be nice if you paid. You're profiting off of the scene.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  One of these days.

• 1:05:48Speaker 00

  Um, Tara, you wanna play a game?

• 1:05:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:05:51Speaker 00

  I know you're gonna do really good at this one. And yeah, it's hot in here because it's summer and we don't have A.C.

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  It's really hot.

• 1:05:57Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:05:57Speaker 01

  Is this what you were yelling at your landlord about earlier?

• 1:05:59Speaker 00

  Uh, no, it was something different, but that also should be, in his defense, I agreed to the lease when I knew there wasn't A.C., so I can't really yell at him about that.

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:06:07Speaker 00

  But I was yelling at him about something else.

• 1:06:08Speaker 01

  Put me in. If you ever need someone, you know I'm your girl. If you ever need a, you're good at a mean email, but I can write one of those.

• 1:06:15Speaker 00

  I am good at a mean email.

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  I could lead some negotiations from you. We could prep together. It's very intense.

• 1:06:19Speaker 00

  I've been, oh, the mean emails I've been sending to my building about trying to replace our door staff with an iPad screen.

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:23Speaker 00

  I have been ripping into them.

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  You, you, you're pro screen, I'm guessing.

• 1:06:28Speaker 00

  I'm pro iPad screen. I'm like, get them out of there quicker.

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:31Speaker 00

  Fire these people sooner.

• 1:06:32Speaker 01

  These people that you're paying, I don't wanna see them anymore.

• 1:06:34Speaker 00

  Get them off the payroll. I care about your profit.

• 1:06:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:06:36Speaker 00

  No, I'm doing, oh, I had such a good line in one recently. They basically are trying to pitch it as like an improvement to the building.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:41Speaker 00

  And I, I said something to the effect of like, I don't know if you think we're stupid or if you just don't care, but of course, none of us are falling for this is better for the building. So if you're gonna fuck us, why don't you just do it instead of lying to us while you do it?

• 1:06:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:06:52Speaker 00

  Really getting nasty in the weeds with them about their messaging, going point by point.

• 1:06:56Speaker 01

  Point by point. Any response?

• 1:06:57Speaker 00

  Uh, they're, they're responding to me professionally.

• 1:06:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:00Speaker 00

  And then I'm responding and saying, thanks for your bullshit response. We both know those aren't your real feelings as a person.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:07:05Speaker 00

  I'm getting into, cause I'm pissed. They're trying to fire our friends.

• 1:07:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:07:08Speaker 00

  We love the door staff.

• 1:07:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:09Speaker 00

  They say hello to us in the morning. They like welcome us into the building. They keep our packages. They are, this is their job.

• 1:07:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:07:15Speaker 00

  Oh, I'm so mad. An iPad screen?

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:07:17Speaker 00

  What, so, I'm gonna read you 15.

• 1:07:22Speaker 00

  I'm gonna read you 15 statements. You're gonna tell me if what I just said was true or false.

• 1:07:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:07:25Speaker 00

  Tara, if you get 10 or more correct, we're gonna give you 50 US dollars.

• 1:07:28Speaker 01

  50?

• 1:07:28Speaker 00

  Uh.

• 1:07:29Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:07:29Speaker 00

  Uh, are you ready?

• 1:07:30Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:07:31Speaker 00

  Shrek sold the most DVDs of any film of all time.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  False.

• 1:07:34Speaker 00

  False, it was Finding Nemo. Crayola's world headquarters is in Seattle, Washington.

• 1:07:39Speaker 01

  False.

• 1:07:40Speaker 00

  False, Forks Township, Pennsylvania. The show MASH ended in 1979.

• 1:07:44Speaker 01

  True.

• 1:07:45Speaker 00

  False, 1983. Oreos are vegan?

• 1:07:52Speaker 01

  False.

• 1:07:53Speaker 00

  True. Harvard University's official mascot is John Harvard.

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  False.

• 1:07:56Speaker 00

  True. Saturn is the largest-

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  Wait, no, no, that's not, okay, anyway, we'll talk.

• 1:08:02Speaker 00

  We'll, yeah, okay.

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  The, the official, it's like, the Crimson.

• 1:08:07Speaker 00

  You need to talk to Chance.

• 1:08:08Speaker 01

  Okay, Chance, we gotta have a discussion about this.

• 1:08:09Speaker 00

  You won't be the first person to come up to him like this.

• 1:08:11Speaker 02

  I've got the proof.

• 1:08:12Speaker 00

  Saturn is the largest-

• 1:08:16Speaker 00

  At least, at least once every other episode, someone goes, "This is bullshit." And Chance goes, "No, it's not."

• 1:08:21Speaker 01

  No, it's not, it's not, I have a computer in front of me.

• 1:08:23Speaker 00

  Saturn is the largest planet in our solar system.

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  Oh, god, why don't I know this? Um, true. False. I don't know, I don't know anything about planets.

• 1:08:32Speaker 00

  What's your answer?

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  Uh, false.

• 1:08:35Speaker 00

  False, it was Jupiter. Kelly Clarkson's real name is Kelly Garber.

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  Um, true?

• 1:08:40Speaker 00

  False, it's Kelly Clarkson.

• 1:08:43Speaker 00

  The Great Pyramid of Giza? Is that a typo? The Great Pyramid of Giza is the oldest, is that what it's called? The Great Pyramid of Giza is the oldest of the seven wonders of the world. Giza, Giza?

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  Giza.

• 1:08:54Speaker 00

  Giza.

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  It's Giza, it's Giza, you just haven't seen it written, I think, in a minute.

• 1:08:57Speaker 00

  I think that's why.

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:58Speaker 00

  The Great Pyramid of Giza is the oldest of the seven wonders of the world.

• 1:09:02Speaker 01

  Um, false.

• 1:09:04Speaker 00

  True. The currency of Switzerland is the euro.

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  True.

• 1:09:10Speaker 00

  False, it's the Swiss franc.

• 1:09:12Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 1:09:12Speaker 00

  The bumper sticker was invented in Kansas City.

• 1:09:15Speaker 01

  Um, true.

• 1:09:17Speaker 00

  That is true.

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:09:19Speaker 00

  Eagles have the best eyesight of any bird.

• 1:09:23Speaker 01

  True.

• 1:09:23Speaker 00

  True. The Ferris wheel at Coney Island is called the Wonder Wheel.

• 1:09:28Speaker 01

  False.

• 1:09:29Speaker 00

  True. Not all integers, integers are rational numbers.

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  Integers. Jesus Christ.

• 1:09:37Speaker 00

  That's really mean. We're not math people.

• 1:09:39Speaker 01

  What the hell? Integers, math, planets? Chance, Jesus. You guys were like, let's book her and make her look like an idiot.

• 1:09:46Speaker 00

  Get her.

• 1:09:46Speaker 01

  What the hell is an integer? Um, I'm gonna say false.

• 1:09:50Speaker 00

  Uh, false, they are.

• 1:09:51Speaker 01

  Okay, great.

• 1:09:51Speaker 00

  The Battle of Midway was fought during World War I.

• 1:09:55Speaker 01

  True.

• 1:09:55Speaker 00

  False, World War II. Uh, Australia is home to the largest cattle ranch in the world.

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  Hmm, I was born there, you know. Uh...

• 1:10:02Speaker 00

  I do know that.

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  True.

• 1:10:06Speaker 00

  It's true.

• 1:10:06Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 1:10:07Speaker 00

  How'd she do?

• 1:10:07Speaker 02

  Seven.

• 1:10:08Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:10:09Speaker 00

  That's beautiful.

• 1:10:09Speaker 01

  That's beautiful, but not fifty dollars worth of beautiful. Damn.

• 1:10:12Speaker 00

  Not fifty dollars.

• 1:10:13Speaker 01

  Do people win this?

• 1:10:15Speaker 00

  Not usually.

• 1:10:17Speaker 01

  Not usually.

• 1:10:17Speaker 00

  It's, it's all in the house's favor.

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  Are you ever shocked at how badly someone does?

• 1:10:23Speaker 00

  Never how badly, sometimes how well.

• 1:10:24Speaker 01

  How well, really?

• 1:10:26Speaker 00

  Not, because it's not a thing of, it really is a thing of a guessing and it, sometimes someone will have like a really incredible run.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:10:32Speaker 00

  And I wonder, sometimes I get really excited because I think maybe we're gonna finally have our first ever 100%.

• 1:10:40Speaker 01

  100%?

• 1:10:41Speaker 00

  I think the day that we have 100%, we stop the show.

• 1:10:43Speaker 01

  People are getting close to 100%?

• 1:10:45Speaker 00

  Hmm, people get 11.

• 1:10:46Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:10:47Speaker 00

  Sometimes.

• 1:10:48Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 1:10:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:49Speaker 01

  That's really amazing. I'm not, I'm not a facts girly, as you can tell from that string of answers.

• 1:10:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:54Speaker 01

  That's not what's bouncing around in my noggin.

• 1:10:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  You know? Yeah, it's not facts, it's not really information. It's like ideas.

• 1:11:00Speaker 00

  Vibes.

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:01Speaker 00

  But I'm more of a vibes girl.

• 1:11:02Speaker 01

  I'm more of a vibes girl.

• 1:11:04Speaker 00

  Uh, Tara, tell people how they can support, where they can find, all that stuff.

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  How they can support. You can support me right now by putting a pan, a fan in my face. Thank you. Um, you can support the tenant organizing that we do by going to Tenant Fed on Instagram. That's mostly where we're active. TenantFederation.org. Um, you can get involved in your local tenant union. We're organizing, get this, thanks to your help, because you, you did some posting on this, we, we got 686 applications for our union school this summer, which-

• 1:11:37Speaker 01

  Means that at a minimum, we could be organizing in 15,000 units across the country by September.

• 1:11:44Speaker 00

  Crazy.

• 1:11:44Speaker 01

  So shit's getting big, actually. We're in our get big era. Um, so yeah, people should get involved, get involved in your building, get involved in your citywide union if there's one. Come to Union School application. Sadly, they're closed this year. But stay in the mix with the Tenant Union Federation, AKA Tough. Um, and if you live in Kansas City, obviously, KC Tenants is the place to be.

• 1:12:06Speaker 00

  Shout out.

• 1:12:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:07Speaker 00

  Love you.

• 1:12:07Speaker 01

  Love you.

• 1:12:08Speaker 00

  Thanks for coming on.

• 1:12:08Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me.