Pod Insights So True with Caleb Hearon Jo Sunday Loves Old People About this episode Welcome! This week’s guest is the hilarious Jo Sunday! Jo and Caleb talk the Millennial vs. Gen Z debate, summer camps, reality TV icons, legacy, and much more!
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Transcript 15,222 words · 8 speakers
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0:30 Speaker 01 Ugh, I hate Mondays.
0:32 Speaker 02 King's Hawaiian cinnamon swirl bite?
0:33 Speaker 01 Uh, Taylor Hansen? Sure, I'll try one. Mmm.
0:39 Speaker 03 Hey, let's get back to work, please.
0:40 Speaker 01 But Taylor Hansen's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites.
0:45 Speaker 03 Taylor Hansen? Nice.
0:47 Speaker 02 Try one.
0:48 Speaker 03 Mmm.
0:52 Speaker 02 King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites. There's nothing like it.
1:01 Speaker 04 Wave.
1:04 Speaker 05 So you became cool quickly.
1:06 Speaker 04 Uh, no, I was still not cool, but I was not going to spend even an hour doing something I didn't want to do.
1:12 Speaker 05 That's cool.
1:13 Speaker 04 And I would say that has-
1:14 Speaker 05 That is cool.
1:14 Speaker 04 That has stuck.
1:15 Speaker 05 That is cool.
1:21 Speaker 05 Do you have any kind of kinks?
1:23 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:24 Speaker 05 Will you say?
1:25 Speaker 04 No, they're secrets.
1:26 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:27 Speaker 04 They're between me and my lovers.
1:28 Speaker 05 I respect that.
1:29 Speaker 04 But I don't, I will tell you for sure-
1:31 Speaker 05 Mine are like totally sick and I also shouldn't say.
1:34 Speaker 04 Yeah?
1:35 Speaker 05 Definitely like in terms of what I'm searching on the computer.
1:38 Speaker 04 Yeah?
1:39 Speaker 05 There are things I'm searching and thinking about that I've never told a soul.
1:43 Speaker 04 How often are you watching pee?
1:45 Speaker 05 Watching pee? Hmm, it comes and goes in waves.
1:49 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:50 Speaker 05 But even when I am watching pee, I'm not really watching, I'm just using it for inspo and I'm imagining the rest.
1:58 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:59 Speaker 05 I'm, I'm turning it on, it's like the pizza girl gets to the door, I'm like, "Thank you."
2:04 Speaker 04 Got it.
2:04 Speaker 05 Laptop closed.
2:04 Speaker 04 Have the characters, thank you.
2:05 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:06 Speaker 04 Have the characters in the setting, I'll be working on the plot. Thank you.
2:08 Speaker 05 But these days, I'm feeling a bit more creatively alive and so I don't really need to turn on the (bleep). I can just kind of (bleep).
2:15 Speaker 04 See, I told people this once-
2:17 Speaker 05 They never do it right. Okay, go ahead.
2:18 Speaker 04 I told people this once in college.
2:20 Speaker 05 That-
2:20 Speaker 04 That I really, I really can, I really can do everything I need with just my imagination.
2:24 Speaker 05 Oh, that's so cool.
2:25 Speaker 04 And I was made fun of. They're like, what do you mean? And I was like, I just imagined something awesome.
2:33 Speaker 04 And then I get to work. I imagined something awesome.
2:36 Speaker 05 I do, I find it hard. Like, even if I have a crush on someone or I think someone's hot, for some reason, that's not helpful. This is why I worry that I'm asexual or something.
2:46 Speaker 04 I don't think you're asexual.
2:48 Speaker 05 Okay.
2:52 Speaker 04 Just based on what you've told me, I mean.
2:54 Speaker 05 I don't even know where the camera is. To my new lover, you hear that?
2:57 Speaker 04 Your new lover that you met last night?
2:59 Speaker 05 Yeah.
2:59 Speaker 04 Okay, huge. Did something happen or this is just a vibe that you're getting?
3:03 Speaker 05 I fell in love. Yeah. Like, as simple as that.
3:05 Speaker 04 Will you walk me through it? I want to hear about it. I know, that's what I want.
3:10 Speaker 05 Well,
3:12 Speaker 05 usually, I don't fuck fans. Do you fuck fans?
3:16 Speaker 04 For sure. Happy to. It's my honor and privilege. Fucking a fan is my honor and privilege. It's one of the most special parts of my work.
3:24 Speaker 05 Whoa.
3:25 Speaker 04 It means more to me than writing.
3:30 Speaker 04 Getting a laugh means nothing to me compared to making a fan come.
3:35 Speaker 04 I love to make a fan see.
3:36 Speaker 05 Oh, well, usually, usually I can't. Usually, there's something about it that's like, maybe it's like I don't respect them enough.
3:45 Speaker 04 Why not? They should be a fan.
3:47 Speaker 05 That's bad, that's bad, that's bad.
3:48 Speaker 04 Yeah.
3:48 Speaker 05 Well, thank you for saying that. And I feel kind of the same way.
3:52 Speaker 04 I know you do, yeah.
3:53 Speaker 05 Or at least, like, when someone's my fan, I'm like, this guy kind of knows what's going on.
3:57 Speaker 04 Tastes, yeah.
3:58 Speaker 05 It's actually tough. Like, someone really hurt my feelings lately. I was trying to date someone completely elderly.
4:03 Speaker 04 Yeah.
4:03 Speaker 05 And all my friends, the whole time, were like, this person wears a fedora, Joe. Like, you should not be letting them hurt your feelings like this. And I'm like, before, during, and after, I stand by it.
4:15 Speaker 04 Yeah.
4:15 Speaker 05 The fedora guy was, like, totally hot.
4:17 Speaker 04 Was that the most recent time you got your feelings hurt romantically?
4:20 Speaker 05 Uh, yes, but also, like, I wake up every day and I get my feelings hurt romantically.
4:26 Speaker 04 Yeah. What'd you change your mind about most recently, do you think?
4:28 Speaker 05 Oh, fuck, fuck, fuck.
4:29 Speaker 04 Can you think of it?
4:30 Speaker 05 Well.
4:31 Speaker 04 Because it's kind of an annoying question, but if you can think of one.
4:34 Speaker 05 We love. So annoying question, annoying answer.
4:38 Speaker 04 So, is this the part where we kiss?
4:44 Speaker 04 Hey mister. Hey mister sends me.
4:47 Speaker 05 Oh my gosh. I actually, I have something real that I've changed my mind about recently.
4:50 Speaker 04 Tell me.
4:50 Speaker 05 And it's good, it's kind of boring, but.
4:53 Speaker 04 I doubt it.
4:53 Speaker 05 I've changed my mind about like,
4:57 Speaker 05 like being a self-made man.
4:59 Speaker 04 Hmm, say more.
5:00 Speaker 05 Like, I think I really,
5:05 Speaker 05 like, like, like for some reason Bo Burnham is coming to my mind.
5:08 Speaker 04 Okay.
5:09 Speaker 05 Like, I have this idea that Bo Burnham, like, came out of the womb, a prolific comedic genius. And I think I kind of fetishize the person who, yeah, like, didn't need any training, didn't need any help, and could just do it like that. Huzzah. And for some reason, I have this feeling that if I like,
5:29 Speaker 05 like, like, like, take a class in something, or like, have someone help me write something, or, yeah, just like having, I guess, institutional support to build the skills that I want to have, that it like, counts less. Or that's the idea that I had. And suddenly, I woke up this year and I was like, that's, was made up. Like, I think the coolest thing is, is to study.
5:52 Speaker 04 There's no such thing as a singular, effortless genius.
5:57 Speaker 05 Yeah.
5:57 Speaker 04 And there's only like, really negative outcomes in pursuing trying to be one.
6:02 Speaker 05 Yeah.
6:02 Speaker 04 Yeah.
6:03 Speaker 05 Probably good that I let go of it.
6:04 Speaker 04 I get it though, because we all pursue it at one point and we all consider it. Because you see like, oh my god, this person like, they wrote this beautiful thing and performed in it and set designed it or whatever. Like, they did whatever, whatever, whatever. And it's like, that's fine.
6:17 Speaker 05 Like, they just knew how to do that.
6:19 Speaker 04 And they didn't.
6:19 Speaker 05 Yeah.
6:20 Speaker 04 And they didn't. And by the way, a lot of times, even if those projects turn out great, it probably would have greatly improved if not.
6:28 Speaker 05 You're so right.
6:28 Speaker 04 If not only the project, definitely the experience for that person of just letting people in.
6:35 Speaker 05 Yeah.
6:35 Speaker 04 You know?
6:36 Speaker 05 I also realized a lot of training, especially in creative work. A lot of people have training like, early on in their life that's kind of obscured. Like, I'm thinking about, like, something I have a tip on my shoulder about is, I never really went to summer camp. I went to like, this weird government camp. That makes it sound worse than it was.
7:01 Speaker 04 I'll be asking about that.
7:04 Speaker 04 Don't know what that means. Really interested to find out.
7:07 Speaker 05 Okay, putting a pin in the government camp.
7:09 Speaker 04 Yeah, government camp, coming back.
7:11 Speaker 05 Coming back to the government camp. But like, there are all sorts of like arts camps and theater camps and like little programs that people do when they're young that I at least wasn't thinking of as their like official training. But I think it, it, it is real and it does matter. Or even just like, who is like encouraged to consume and make art as a kid? Like who has creative parents, who has creativity in their life when they're a kid? I don't know. I don't know.
7:36 Speaker 04 100%. That's a huge, I don't think people realize how, I didn't even consider that I could be a creative person or an artist until I was in my twenties. It was just never, I didn't grow up around artists. I didn't.
7:49 Speaker 05 Same. Wait, I didn't know this about you though. I'm surprised.
7:51 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah. I grew up in like working class, small town Missouri. Everyone was just like broke and working.
7:56 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
7:57 Speaker 04 Which is, I'm so grateful for it. Massively informs my perspective and I think it was a training of its own. But like, yeah, people who were told from like a very young age that they could perform.
8:06 Speaker 05 Yes.
8:06 Speaker 04 You have no idea how valuable that is.
8:08 Speaker 05 It's huge.
8:09 Speaker 04 Yeah. That is really helpful. And coming from money. I mean, but that's the often talked about thing. I just do think about it a lot. I'm like, you guys really, as much as, as much as some of these people think they know how much that helped them, I'm like, you really have no fucking clue. How hard it is to take any of these risks when
8:23 Speaker 05 Completely.
8:24 Speaker 04 Nobody you know can help you if you fail.
8:26 Speaker 05 Completely.
8:26 Speaker 04 Yeah. Government camp?
8:28 Speaker 05 Looking at a success story. Government camp. I think Mr. John F. Kennedy went there. So there was, I think, an A24 movie, Boy's State?
8:39 Speaker 04 Oh, I know Boy's State.
8:41 Speaker 05 I went to Girl's State.
8:42 Speaker 04 I went to Boy's State.
8:43 Speaker 05 You did?
8:44 Speaker 04 For 12 hours.
8:46 Speaker 05 You left?
8:47 Speaker 04 I hated it.
8:48 Speaker 05 I won.
8:49 Speaker 04 You won?
8:51 Speaker 05 You're looking at, well.
8:52 Speaker 04 I believe this.
8:53 Speaker 05 You're looking at Speaker of the House?
8:55 Speaker 04 Yeah.
8:56 Speaker 05 And what's it called? Like, would you call Kamala Harris the runner up? To the presidency? Cause that's what I was at girl. Like I, basically I won my primary, but then my party lost for governor.
9:11 Speaker 04 You lost an election.
9:18 Speaker 05 I can't, it's like I cannot say.
9:20 Speaker 04 This is what I'm talking about. This is a happy person in front of me. A happy person doesn't say they lost the election. They say they were runner up.
9:28 Speaker 04 They got second place in the election where you can only get first place.
9:30 Speaker 05 You caught me on a good day.
9:34 Speaker 05 You caught me on a good.
9:35 Speaker 04 Like, no, I wouldn't call Kamala the runner up, personally, but I love that mindset.
9:42 Speaker 05 The runner up.
9:45 Speaker 05 Oh, my gosh.
9:46 Speaker 04 Did you enjoy Girl State?
9:49 Speaker 05 Well.
9:51 Speaker 04 Or were you just good at it?
9:53 Speaker 05 You think I'm, you think I'm, you think I'm gonna spend a weekend with a thousand girls and not enjoy myself?
9:58 Speaker 04 Say that. Say that. Were you kissing?
10:01 Speaker 05 No.
10:02 Speaker 04 Nothing like that. Okay. I didn't know. I didn't know. I just check in on this stuff.
10:06 Speaker 05 Wait, you're at, at Girl State, you mean? Or in my life?
10:10 Speaker 04 I'm at, at Girl State.
10:11 Speaker 05 At Girl State.
10:12 Speaker 04 Just because you said a thousand girls and you were so happy, I thought maybe there was kissing.
10:15 Speaker 05 There were other, no, like the homoerotic girl situ, there were different homoerotic girl situations of my youth. Girl, girl, because, no, Girl State, and it's so funny because every freaking thing was made up. Like, it had no connection. Like, we didn't like, we didn't do like a volunteering day in the, like, it was entirely fiction, but we took it so seriously that you saying, where we, I'm like, I was at work.
10:43 Speaker 04 Yeah, why would I kiss at work?
10:44 Speaker 05 I was campaigning. Like, what are you talking about?
10:47 Speaker 04 We were creating laws about how to walk on the sidewalk.
10:48 Speaker 05 Yeah.
10:49 Speaker 04 Yeah, I'm not kissing.
10:50 Speaker 05 Yeah.
10:50 Speaker 04 I'm in Congress.
10:51 Speaker 05 Well, I think one of our, and there were, like, there were these weird conservative girls who.
10:56 Speaker 04 There always are.
10:58 Speaker 05 They wanted, they, they wanted to like further criminalize prostitution.
11:03 Speaker 04 Of course.
11:04 Speaker 05 And that's what we discussed for, for a week, just for fun?
11:07 Speaker 04 Yeah.
11:09 Speaker 05 But what was it? Did I like Girl State? I don't know.
11:12 Speaker 04 Yeah.
11:12 Speaker 05 I don't remember. No, I don't remember what the question was.
11:14 Speaker 04 If it was, if you liked Girl State, if you had fun, if you enjoyed it.
11:17 Speaker 05 Oh, yes. And I also, like, I prob, uh, I, you know what?
11:30 Speaker 05 I was a little bit in my like Olivia Pope bag. Like I was, cause when you're campaigning.
11:44 Speaker 05 I was, I was using facts, but I was molding facts about my life to make my constituents feel a certain way. And I was getting like totally high off of that feeling.
11:58 Speaker 04 Yeah. I would refer to, I relate to this more than you know, because I would refer to the years like 14 through 19 of my life. As the campaign. I was on the campaign trail that whole time.
12:13 Speaker 05 Oh my God. Wait, but I think I know this about you.
12:16 Speaker 04 Oh, I was campaigning.
12:17 Speaker 05 Because you were.
12:18 Speaker 04 And I was never the runner up. I won.
12:26 Speaker 04 I won, but I didn't win at Boise State. I'm really, really.
12:30 Speaker 05 Wait, you literally, you packed your bags and you went home?
12:32 Speaker 04 Which is why I'm so impressed with you that you stayed and like rocked it out because I got there, I got there, I went to one like assembly of it. And I immediately called my mom and was like, tell them grandma got in a car crash. I need to come home.
12:43 Speaker 05 What? What was so scary about it?
12:45 Speaker 04 It wasn't scary. I hated it. I hated the guys. I hated the leaders. I hated, they had like an attorney general from the state that was like a Republican come and speak to us on opening ceremony. And I was like, fuck this noise. I'm fucking out of here. I peace out of it. And so my counselor comes and he goes, hi, can we talk to you for a moment? I go, yeah. He goes, so your mom called and told us that your grandma had an accident.
13:10 Speaker 04 And this is exact tone.
13:11 Speaker 05 Oh my God. All love to your mom. I'm like, why didn't she sell it?
13:14 Speaker 04 Yeah, she didn't. She did not. And, and I had driven myself there, uh, cause I was, you know, 16, 17, had a driver's license. And, um, my dad worked at the college actually where they hosted it. And I was like, I was like, yeah, I gotta, I gotta go. Sorry. It's all for grandma, you know? And he was like, yeah, don't you think your grandma would want you to, it sounds like she's gonna be fine. Don't you think she'd want you to like stay and honor your commitment? And I was like, no.
13:38 Speaker 05 Commitment to what?
13:39 Speaker 04 Commitment to what? I mean, these people are insane.
13:41 Speaker 05 It is insane.
13:42 Speaker 04 Boy State is one of the most psychopathic. They recently hit me up through a mutual friend and was like, would Caleb come and speak at Boy State?
13:48 Speaker 05 Oh, my gosh. But maybe do. Maybe do so you can twist their minds in the right way.
13:53 Speaker 04 I mean, horrible. And I went, I left, I packed my stuff, I got in my car.
13:58 Speaker 05 The one little gay guy who's part of it?
14:00 Speaker 04 I was the one little gay guy.
14:01 Speaker 05 Yeah, but there's gonna be another one.
14:03 Speaker 04 I needed to go back. No, I don't want him to, I want him to find me in another way. I talk every week for an hour. Find me on So True, brother.
14:09 Speaker 05 Fair, fair, fair, fair, fair.
14:10 Speaker 04 I went and had lunch with my dad.
14:11 Speaker 05 Come to the socials.
14:12 Speaker 04 I went and had lunch with my dad because he lived in that town. And he, when we were at lunch, he goes, so you, you left Boy State already, huh? I go, yeah. He goes, I can't believe you were doing that dork shit. He was, he was like, I just, I, when you told me you were gonna do it, I was like, he's so much cooler than that. And I was like, king.
14:29 Speaker 05 That's cool. So you became cool quickly.
14:33 Speaker 04 No, I was still not cool, but I was not going to spend even an hour doing something I didn't want to do.
14:39 Speaker 05 That's cool.
14:39 Speaker 04 And I would say that has, that has stuck.
14:45 Speaker 04 I would say that's held.
14:46 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is really cool. That's something I'm learning. No, like, they're totally incriminating photos of me, like, kissing the American flag and like, giving a campaign speech in like ASL, like, it's like totally like sinister. Well, no, that's the issue.
15:06 Speaker 04 Oh, so you were doing fake sign language in your campaign speech?
15:09 Speaker 05 No, it was just like, I studied that speech in sign language.
15:12 Speaker 04 Oh, that's actually really cool.
15:14 Speaker 05 Do you see what I'm saying? I was in my bag.
15:16 Speaker 04 I think that's, I think that's very accessible and cool of you, actually.
15:19 Speaker 05 Thanks.
15:20 Speaker 04 Yeah.
15:21 Speaker 05 Because I watched Switch at Birth on Freeform, formerly known as ABC Family.
15:25 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah. Shout out to Freeform. God love them.
15:28 Speaker 05 If they want to put me in a show, I'll be in the show. A.
15:35 Speaker 04 What else is going on with you? Do you think you're an intimidating person? Like, do you think people are intimidated by you?
15:40 Speaker 05 Caleb?
15:41 Speaker 04 Yeah.
15:41 Speaker 05 Are you saying that because I'm black?
15:43 Speaker 04 No.
15:44 Speaker 05 Okay.
15:44 Speaker 04 No, none at all.
15:45 Speaker 05 I'm sorry I said that. Yeah, I didn't, I, yeah, my heart wasn't in it. My heart wasn't in it.
15:49 Speaker 04 I was not willing to have the conversation.
15:50 Speaker 05 My heart wasn't in it. I didn't, that accusation wasn't real. But why do you ask me that? Do you think I'm intimidating?
15:55 Speaker 04 No, I don't, but I think I could see if somebody, you said something, you, you turned, first of all, you're very cool. I think you're very cool and very smart and very funny.
16:04 Speaker 05 Thank you so much for saying that.
16:07 Speaker 04 You know that. And I really think highly of you and I believe in you and I think you're fantastic. So that, but that intimidates people, I think. Coolness especially intimidates people.
16:17 Speaker 05 Whoa.
16:18 Speaker 04 And I think you're very cool. And there was something you said a couple of minutes ago where we were in conversation and you were like, you're like, uh, what was the question? I forgot it. And you said it in a way that I was like, that doesn't bother me, but I know people that that would unravel for months.
16:33 Speaker 05 Why?
16:34 Speaker 04 Just because you were like so confident and like, I don't know, there was just something about the way you turned that phrase that I was like, I could, I know people who would get really undone by that.
16:43 Speaker 05 I like read myself so differently than other people read me. Cause when I said that, I was, I, I think I have an underdog complex where even in that moment, I was like, oh, fuck, I'm being such a loser. Like, I came all the way to be on Caleb's podcast. He asked me a simple question and I can't even freaking remember. Like, this is so embarrassing. I, I wasn't thinking of that as like my cool swag, like, what the hell did you ask me? I didn't even listen.
17:08 Speaker 04 And I didn't think you were. That's the thing I'm saying, but, but do you, do you ever, do you ever get feedback that people think you're intimidating?
17:15 Speaker 05 I, it's interesting because, ugh, I think kind of yes. I think throughout my life.
17:25 Speaker 05 Yes. It's difficult because, well, uh, it's a little bit like the thing where I always have this race card that I can pop out of my back pocket.
17:39 Speaker 04 Yeah.
17:39 Speaker 05 And it's kind of like when I have a fight with my friend group, I can't quite tell, like, are these people racist? Or am I uniquely just being a total fucking bitch?
17:54 Speaker 05 We'll never know. We'll never get to the bottom of it.
17:57 Speaker 04 Yeah.
17:59 Speaker 05 So I'm thinking like really in elementary school, that was feedback that I would get that I was like intimidating or like scaring people, but it's tough because yeah, how much of that is my personality? And how much of that is? People kind of slotting me into a narrative that they're all ready, ready to put me into. But I mean, it sounds like what you're saying is it's like 99% personality and vibe.
18:23 Speaker 04 Well, no, I'm asking because I feel, I don't feel, I don't feel that I am cool in a technical definition of the word. But I get feedback a lot that I'm intimidating and I find it very confusing because I think I'm warm and inviting.
18:37 Speaker 05 We might relate because yeah, you're someone who, yeah, like if I, if I write out the facts on paper, if I were to describe you, super warm and super inviting, well, except, uh oh, are we gonna go here? When the first couple of times we met, I was like, so that guy wants me dead.
18:55 Speaker 04 Really?
18:56 Speaker 05 Not even wants me dead because first you'd have to, first you'd have to care.
19:02 Speaker 04 Oh, I liked you so much when I met you.
19:04 Speaker 05 Really?
19:05 Speaker 04 I thought you were so great.
19:05 Speaker 05 Wow.
19:06 Speaker 04 Yeah.
19:07 Speaker 05 In Chicago? Wow.
19:09 Speaker 04 I thought you were great.
19:10 Speaker 05 Oh, man. See, I'm sorry. I read you with such malice. It's not nice.
19:14 Speaker 04 That's so funny. No, but people do.
19:16 Speaker 05 But why would you care? Like I was just Leva's friend.
19:18 Speaker 04 I thought you were cool. I was like, this, she's, she's a, she's a good sweet girl.
19:21 Speaker 05 Interesting.
19:22 Speaker 04 Yeah.
19:24 Speaker 05 So then maybe we have the same syndrome where I'm sure you were like totally friendly to me. But yeah, I was just like, oh my gosh, like Leva's friend, like he's older, he's so cool. He knows film. He's got me. He's real.
19:36 Speaker 04 Well, also Leva loving you was more than enough for me to love you. I'm like, if Leva loves you, I love you. Like until you give me a reason not to.
19:44 Speaker 05 Gift from Leva.
19:45 Speaker 04 You know, but I think, yeah, I, the reason I ask is because I find you to be so, I find you to be very warm and inviting and, and fun and not hard to talk to at all. But then I was thinking like, oh, I kind of think that of myself too. And I get this feedback a lot. So I wondered.
19:59 Speaker 05 Can the listeners, what, on the Patreon, on the Substack, can they please weigh in about if I'm intimidating?
20:05 Speaker 04 Substack commenters.
20:07 Speaker 05 Will they feel safe to say?
20:08 Speaker 04 Even though Joe has explicitly said it might be racism, go ahead and let us know. You would be intimidated by Joe.
20:20 Speaker 05 We can strike that from the record, like, seriously? What's it called politically when you, like, you get a pass? Is that amnesty?
20:28 Speaker 04 Uh, oh, for this instance, you're gonna give them a pass on worrying about if it's...
20:31 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
20:33 Speaker 04 No, but I know what you mean. I've told a lot of people this about their...
20:35 Speaker 05 I'm giving out pardons.
20:37 Speaker 04 Pardon, pardon.
20:38 Speaker 05 Pardon, pardon. Runner-up, I'm giving you a pardon.
20:41 Speaker 04 I've told a lot of people this about, a lot of white comics specifically, this about their intimidation, their feeling of intimidation from Z Way. That I'm like, I really feel that you are intimidated by Z Way. Yes, the format of her show is inherently confrontational.
20:54 Speaker 05 Yeah.
20:54 Speaker 04 And so you might, in a, in the biggest way, you might show a problem with confrontation and being wrong, and being so scared of being wrong. But I think in a more specific and nuanced way, you specifically fear that you are not allowed to disagree with a black woman. And that specifically feels like a type of, like, uh, paternalistic misogynoir that's like, it's a different kind of, like, pedestal placing racism and misogyny. So I know, I know what you mean. I was about to say, I know exactly what you mean. I probably can't know exactly. But I know what you mean by, is it just who I am, or am I doing something?
21:29 Speaker 05 Yeah, I mean, to be honest, this, it's, I feel like this is totally cathartic to talk about. This is something that I'm, like, so sensitive about.
21:38 Speaker 04 Like, in, in general, or lately?
21:42 Speaker 05 Well, kind of lately.
21:44 Speaker 04 Like a season, it's a season that's really flaring up right now?
21:47 Speaker 05 Like, anytime I have conflict with a friend, or with someone I care about, I'm really, and I think I might be making it up a bit, probably. But I'm, I'm, I'm really afraid that people would be afraid to come to me. Well, and it's tough because I'm also, like, I'm quite sensitive and I'm quite reactive. And so I think those things don't mix well. If someone, like, is sensitive and reactive and is intimidating, I'm like, that equals abuser. Like, uh-oh. I don't want to be that.
22:24 Speaker 04 Yeah, that's interesting. I don't know. The intimidating thing is so, uh, yeah, the intimidating thing is so interesting to me. And I think it's mostly because I don't find... I'm like trying to think of someone I find intimidating. I don't really feel that. That's not something that I feel. Chance, is there someone I find intimidating?
22:46 Speaker 05 We're so similar, Caleb. I'm not, I'm awesome.
22:51 Speaker 04 But who do you find intimidated, who are you intimidated by?
22:53 Speaker 05 The thing is, like, because I think, like, I guess I'm thinking about celebrity culture. Like, ah, like, ah, this is when I get into, like, um, this is when I feel like a 2000s reality TV character where I'm like, I'm not intimidated by anyone. Which of these bitches would intimidate me?
23:19 Speaker 05 Like, who is there to scare me? But I think other people don't feel that way.
23:23 Speaker 04 Yeah, I think for me, it's just like, I don't know, everybody, I don't know, everybody has like insecurities and fears and is bringing their own shit to every situation in a way that I'm like.
23:35 Speaker 05 Yeah, I'm intimidated by, like,
23:41 Speaker 05 my legit friends, I think.
23:43 Speaker 04 Yeah.
23:44 Speaker 05 Maybe not intimidated by, but like,
23:48 Speaker 05 like, I'm definitely not intimidated by strain. I don't think I'm intimidated. I don't know what I'm saying.
23:54 Speaker 04 I think the, I know what you mean. I think the closest I get to being intimidated is when I'm around people who do like objectively good selfless work for like a living. Like when I'm around like tenant organizers or like nurses or like somebody who.
24:14 Speaker 05 You feel intimidated, like they're gonna hit you or something?
24:16 Speaker 04 Not like, no, not like these, I don't know if you've been around, uh, union organizers, but I'm not worried about any of these leftists hitting me, I can tell you that. If the right wing has anything going for them, it's that none of these people can pack a punch.
24:31 Speaker 05 Some guns, uh-huh, yeah.
24:33 Speaker 04 No, I just, I feel, um, I feel.
24:36 Speaker 05 And we should, by the way.
24:38 Speaker 04 I feel silly sometimes that I'm like, oh, my little clown show that I do.
24:42 Speaker 05 For sure, for sure. But is that intimidation?
24:46 Speaker 04 I don't know.
24:46 Speaker 05 I think it's tough. Like, I don't know, now I'm, I'm lost. Like, I don't know what the definition of intimidation, like, I feel like there's, there.
24:54 Speaker 05 But to me, when you say intimidated, I think it like, yeah, it's something about a fear that that person could like, even if emotionally like hurt me.
25:03 Speaker 04 Yeah.
25:03 Speaker 05 That they could like attack me or take. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, that maybe they would like really write a poem that ends you.
25:11 Speaker 04 Well, or like, I don't know, that they would like do, I think the, I think intimidation to me, the way that I conceptualize it in my brain is like, oh, if I give that person a chance, or if I mess up around them, they will, uh, maybe not even they will. They have the ability to undo me. They have the ability to spin me out, make me think differently of myself, ruin my day.
25:33 Speaker 05 I'm seeing a face. Totally.
25:35 Speaker 04 Yeah.
25:35 Speaker 05 Yeah, I won't say.
25:36 Speaker 04 Yeah, of course. Of course. No, we would never give them that power in public. You can tell me later.
25:40 Speaker 05 Yeah.
25:42 Speaker 04 I also want to say to the listeners of the show, we say you can tell me later on this show, like three times an episode, and I would say we never end up, I never end up actually following, because I forget and we never, so I actually don't feel bad.
25:54 Speaker 05 You should publish it as a book.
25:56 Speaker 04 Yeah.
25:57 Speaker 05 Like an index of like all the you can tell me laters.
25:59 Speaker 04 I have told.
25:59 Speaker 05 Because at that point, it's like, the person's not gonna go find the book and buy the book and read it.
26:04 Speaker 04 Yeah. I have told Chance that if I were to die before him, um, if I were to die ever, that he is, he's allowed to release like everything we've ever cut from this show.
26:17 Speaker 05 Wow.
26:19 Speaker 04 For, of me, of my talking, because we cut things, you know, sometimes that I'm like, oh, that would come off insensitive, or I shouldn't have said that, or whatever. Or like, since we've recorded that, something has happened in the world that makes that something I actually don't want to say. I have, I've given Chance permission when I die to.
26:32 Speaker 05 Caleb.
26:32 Speaker 04 If he outlives me, yeah.
26:33 Speaker 05 How do you wish to be remembered in death?
26:37 Speaker 04 You delivering this to me, laying on that chair like that.
26:42 Speaker 05 Suddenly I've gotten so comfortable.
26:44 Speaker 04 I love that you're comfy in here. It means the world to me.
26:46 Speaker 05 Four hours, right? Okay, let me know.
26:48 Speaker 04 I do wonder if you'll be in frame on your camera at all, and it's not something I'm worried about.
26:51 Speaker 05 Well.
26:53 Speaker 04 If it's just your feet, it's really funny, actually. Like, a good portion of the podcast is just your feet with a shelf in the background.
26:59 Speaker 05 I'll get up in it. I mean, it's, maybe it's like I need to play Hard to Get with Hollywood, like.
27:03 Speaker 04 Yeah. Oh, I'm just like, maybe you could cast me, but you'll have to start from the feet.
27:09 Speaker 05 Maybe they want to see the bod, maybe they want to see the outfit. I was worried that my full outfit wouldn't show.
27:18 Speaker 04 When you have really cute shoes on today, but they're not on your feet at the moment.
27:20 Speaker 05 You're so right, guys.
27:23 Speaker 04 Put them up. Paws up.
27:26 Speaker 05 These are vintage.
27:29 Speaker 05 I love them because they're like a Mary Jane, but there's like something serious happening with the soul. Great shoe. That's, that's all, that's what I have to say.
27:38 Speaker 04 How do you want to be remembered?
27:44 Speaker 05 Ah, like not, not, nothing interesting, just the classic, like, I really want to make a splash.
27:49 Speaker 04 Yeah?
27:50 Speaker 05 Yeah.
27:50 Speaker 04 How so? In death or like, what, what does that mean?
27:53 Speaker 05 Like, I really want, I, oh God, it's so, I really want it to be like, I need there to be something, like some genre or some art form that is like
28:08 Speaker 05 paradigmatically changed.
28:10 Speaker 04 Yeah.
28:11 Speaker 05 Because, oh my God, my delusions of grandeur, but really like, the, like, stand up was never the same because of Joe Sunday.
28:18 Speaker 04 Yeah.
28:19 Speaker 05 Film was never the same because of Joe Sunday.
28:21 Speaker 04 I like that.
28:22 Speaker 05 Crazy for someone to say that who has a five to six minutes.
28:30 Speaker 04 Well, it's audacity and it's needed, by the way. It's audacity and it's needed.
28:36 Speaker 05 But that's my point.
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31:26 Speaker 04 I like that.
31:28 Speaker 05 But you didn't answer, how do you wish to be remembered? Cause maybe it was like totally heavy and like crazy me to ask you that.
31:33 Speaker 04 No, not totally heavy. I like that. This, I like any question on this show. It's what we do on here. We go back and forth. How do I want to be remembered? I actually was thinking about this recently. I was like free writing and this kind of, well, it came up because right wing conservative guys are really obsessed with the idea of legacy. That they'll be like, they'll be like, you're leaving behind no children and no wife. You'll have no legacy. And I find it so funny because I'm like, you guys, when you die, your children will actually, they will come to know your true legacy, which is that you were hateful and you joyfully participated in the destruction of other people's families. They will hate you in your death.
32:06 Speaker 05 Get them.
32:06 Speaker 04 And they'll spend the money that you leave them, which might end up being the only positive contribution you make to anyone's lives. They'll spend it on things you would have hated and I find great, great joy in that. But my like, what I want to be remembered for, um, I would just like, I really would just like people to say, he, he tried hard and he had a good time. That's like it. I just.
32:26 Speaker 05 Really?
32:27 Speaker 04 Yeah. I don't, that's really all.
32:28 Speaker 05 Oh my gosh, you really are a good person.
32:34 Speaker 05 Oh my God, now I sound like a megalomaniac.
32:39 Speaker 04 I wouldn't be mad if yours happened for me.
32:40 Speaker 05 I have to be Beethoven or else.
32:48 Speaker 05 He tried hard and he had a good time. That is so nice. Well, obviously it's going to be that.
32:53 Speaker 04 I want that. I think that'd be nice. I'm not mad if things are massively shifted. I don't, I don't, I don't not suspect that it'll be more than that, but I'm like, I would be happy with that. If they're like, he really tried hard to be a good person, to make good things. He tried hard across the board to be a good friend, to be present. And he had a good time. Like he really had fun. I think that would be enough for me.
33:14 Speaker 05 That's cool.
33:15 Speaker 04 Yeah.
33:16 Speaker 05 I, so it doesn't resonate with me, the idea of having legacy through your children. I'm like, those people have nothing to do with me.
33:24 Speaker 04 Yeah. Yeah. Those people aren't really my business.
33:29 Speaker 05 Literally, literally.
33:30 Speaker 04 Yeah.
33:32 Speaker 04 I want children, so I, but I don't, I don't want my children to be my legacy.
33:36 Speaker 05 Yeah, I, I feel the same way. I've, I was pretty iffy about children until pretty much last week. When I went to my friend Toshi's house, Toshi has two beautiful lesbian moms who have a beautiful home full of happy children. And that seems like such a fantasy to just have like a happy life with a bunch of people around. But still, like what those people do is none of my, is none of my business. I don't get it.
34:03 Speaker 04 Yeah.
34:04 Speaker 05 Well.
34:05 Speaker 04 Yeah. What do you, okay, so you've made a couple of jokes about getting cast. You've mentioned that you want your legacy to be that like,
34:13 Speaker 05 Oh my god.
34:13 Speaker 04 Industries are shifted entirely.
34:15 Speaker 05 I seem so desperate in every way.
34:18 Speaker 04 No, you don't. But I'm genuinely curious what you want. Like, what, what, what would you like out of? Like, why are you doing all this? What do you want? Do you want to be, do you want to be acting more? Do you wanna? Do you, like, what is, what is the idea?
34:30 Speaker 05 Hmm, I do. I want to be doing everything more. I do want to be acting more and writing more. Um, I think, gosh, and this is so annoying too, but I think, I feel like I have stuff to say. And probably like growing up or probably for most of my life. I didn't think that, um, anyone would care about what I had to say or that I would get the chance to say it. And now that I feel, now that I just know it's a possibility, I'm like so desperate about it. But also, I think it's like, I, I, it's not even that I know like what my message is that I want to get out into the world.
35:11 Speaker 05 But I do feel really hungry to dig in, like find out
35:20 Speaker 05 my ideas.
35:21 Speaker 04 Yeah.
35:22 Speaker 05 That I, that I want to put on the airwaves.
35:24 Speaker 04 Yeah. Send out onto the airwaves. That I want to send out frequencies on the airwaves. I like that.
35:33 Speaker 05 And I want to be dressed by Miu Miu.
35:35 Speaker 04 That's huge.
35:36 Speaker 05 Thank you.
35:37 Speaker 04 They do the little tiny skirts. I don't know a ton about fashion, but I know that.
35:41 Speaker 05 You know, you really do.
35:43 Speaker 04 I don't know a ton about fashion, but I know that.
35:44 Speaker 05 Ah, yeah.
35:45 Speaker 04 Little tiny skirts.
35:46 Speaker 05 Eeety bitty skirt.
35:48 Speaker 04 I like that.
35:49 Speaker 05 Why, thank you.
35:50 Speaker 04 I have a question for you. It's a big question of the show. What's so true to you?
35:55 Speaker 05 Oh.
35:56 Speaker 04 Oh.
35:57 Speaker 05 Okay.
35:57 Speaker 04 Wait.
35:59 Speaker 05 Here we go. Let's dig in.
36:00 Speaker 04 Here we go.
36:02 Speaker 05 I think
36:05 Speaker 05 the Gen Z millennial beef is one-sided.
36:09 Speaker 04 Between who and whom?
36:11 Speaker 05 I think that millennials have a chip on their shoulder about Gen Z. I think that millennials feel that Gen Z has a disdain for them that's not rooted in reality.
36:23 Speaker 04 Yeah, okay.
36:24 Speaker 05 I feel like millennials have this feeling that Gen Z were like, and it's all because the TikTokers got on to the business about the skinny jeans. Who cares if you guys wear skinny jeans? But I think that millennials feel like Gen Z people look at them and we're like, ew, you're old and you're ugly and you pause. Ha, ha, ha, loser. You can't hang out with us. But I feel like Gen Z, we don't really have a strong cultural identity as a generation. Like, what is Gen Z? I feel like it's like totally question mark, other than like pressing on phone. I think all we have is our nostalgia and references. And we're like, Y2K is so cool. Nineties are so cool. Eighties, seventies.
37:08 Speaker 05 And so I think when we see anyone older than us, we're like, oh, my gosh, you're like, you're vintage. Like, you're Y2K.
37:20 Speaker 04 You're like, throwback vibes. You're like vintage to me.
37:24 Speaker 05 Literally, like, you, like, oh, like, you, like, like my Pinterest.
37:27 Speaker 04 Some of the old people who listen to the show are not gonna like that.
37:29 Speaker 05 No, no, you guys, I'm trying to appeal to you. I'm trying to become your friend. Because I think, because I think you're cool. And by the way, I want to, like, F U C K you, like, ah, well, this is part of it, is that I'm, is there a word for people who are attracted to old people?
37:43 Speaker 04 Lesbians.
37:48 Speaker 05 Thank you.
37:49 Speaker 04 Yeah, lesbians.
37:50 Speaker 05 I'm that.
37:53 Speaker 05 Yeah, like, we, we, we, we look at you with, um, maybe not reverence, but with more positive affect than you think. Where is this idea of coming from that millennials just really like, it's like, sure, you're jealous because we're like tiny, like, we're, we're young and we're cute. No, no, no.
38:10 Speaker 04 We're tiny. I'm dead.
38:14 Speaker 05 I have a group of free rights. I beg, I beg, I beg. I didn't mean to say that, but we're, okay, we're tiny of brain and we're tiny of age.
38:20 Speaker 04 Yeah.
38:24 Speaker 05 I think millennials are cool.
38:25 Speaker 04 Yeah. I think you're right, though.
38:27 Speaker 05 It's like, because I want to date someone older.
38:29 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:29 Speaker 05 I'm like, I'm going to podcast today.
38:30 Speaker 04 For sure.
38:31 Speaker 05 I think millennials, but I do.
38:33 Speaker 04 Yeah, I think you're right. I think that both sides are correct. I think, like, older people are always going to be a little confused by and annoyed by younger people. They're mostly correct, I feel like younger, like, 22-year-olds are, by and large, pretty fucking annoying. And so, but that's-
38:50 Speaker 05 But don't you think we know? Don't you think we agree?
38:52 Speaker 04 100%, but that's what I'm saying is those people were also annoying when they were 22. I was annoying when I was 22. I'm still annoying. I bet a 45-year-old hears me talk sometimes and is like, God, I can't wait for you to get over that. And they're right, you know, like, that's the thing is you, you, with the benefit of wisdom, you look back on the absence of wisdom and see it as what it is, which is lacking wisdom and annoying.
39:12 Speaker 05 Yeah.
39:12 Speaker 04 And also, younger people don't think much about older people because younger people pretty much only think about themselves.
39:17 Speaker 05 But why do older people feel like younger people don't like them? That's my, that's what I take issue with.
39:23 Speaker 04 Yeah, that's a really good question.
39:24 Speaker 05 I think we like you guys.
39:26 Speaker 04 You guys.
39:29 Speaker 04 You guys, um, right.
39:33 Speaker 05 Sorry, um.
39:34 Speaker 04 Right.
39:35 Speaker 05 If there were a millennial in-
39:37 Speaker 04 If there were an older person in the room.
39:40 Speaker 04 No, it's funny. I actually, I really don't know. And I don't have, uh, any genuine hangups about age. People think I do because I joke about it a lot. I really, I really don't. I feel-
39:51 Speaker 05 That's why I feel safe to talk to you about it.
39:52 Speaker 04 I'm a safe older person to you.
39:55 Speaker 05 Mandatory reporter.
39:56 Speaker 04 I'm a self, I'm a safe, older person to you, and that means the world to me. How old are you? I forget.
40:03 Speaker 04 You're 24.
40:03 Speaker 05 13.
40:04 Speaker 04 You're 25.
40:05 Speaker 05 14.
40:06 Speaker 04 You're 14 going on 25.
40:08 Speaker 05 14 going on 13.
40:09 Speaker 04 14. Actually, having a 14 year old on the podcast would be kind of chic. It'd be interesting to hear their ideas. I should talk to a younger person. We've had some older people on the show.
40:19 Speaker 05 And you know what? I can already feel that I'm doing the thing that I was talking about because you're talking about having someone younger than me. I'm like, yeah.
40:29 Speaker 04 That was supposed to be me.
40:31 Speaker 05 That might, that might be nice to get kind of like a fresh voice around here.
40:36 Speaker 04 That's so funny. Do you have any, do you have any regrets? Let's just get into it.
40:45 Speaker 04 I don't know what kind of mood I'm in today, but fuck it. Do you have any regrets?
40:49 Speaker 05 Yeah, I mean, first of all, like the part where I got a wonderful opportunity and I put my feet in the camera.
40:55 Speaker 04 Yeah.
40:56 Speaker 05 The part where I called you racist. I called your listeners racist for sure.
41:03 Speaker 04 There's a lot of listeners to the show. Probably at least a couple of them are racist. I bet, I bet you got at least a couple of people in that.
41:09 Speaker 05 Oh, right, right. Just throw out the, that's what I love about the race car. Like you're gonna hit somebody.
41:14 Speaker 04 Yeah.
41:19 Speaker 04 Yeah.
41:20 Speaker 05 Yeah, I have a lot of regrets. I wish I could go back and change a lot of the decisions I've made and a lot of the ways I've acted in my life. But it's also tough because
41:34 Speaker 05 I also have such a beautiful and fabulous life.
41:36 Speaker 04 Yeah.
41:37 Speaker 05 That's filled with a lot of love. And so it's scary to think
41:42 Speaker 05 that any, that even things I do regret could have led me to a different path.
41:48 Speaker 06 Whenever fall comes back around, it always feels like a fresh start. This year, I've been layering in some styles from the new Lululemon fall drop because the weather is shifting and I find I have to be ready for the entire day and not just one part of it. Lululemon's fall line has some really versatile transitional pieces. So I can just wake up, throw on a matching set, add a jacket or a fleece and head out, knowing that I'll feel comfortable enough to go wherever the day takes me. Check out the new fall arrivals in store and online now at lululemon.com.
42:18 Speaker 01 Ugh, I hate Mondays.
42:19 Speaker 02 King's wine cinnamon swirl bite?
42:21 Speaker 01 Taylor Hanson? Sure, I'll try one. Mmm.
42:27 Speaker 03 Hey, let's get back to work, please.
42:28 Speaker 01 But Taylor Hanson's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites.
42:33 Speaker 03 Taylor Hanson? Nice.
42:35 Speaker 04 Try one.
42:36 Speaker 03 Mmm.
42:40 Speaker 01 King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites. There's nothing like it.
42:48 Speaker 04 Yeah.
42:49 Speaker 05 You know I was supposed to start med school this year?
42:51 Speaker 04 I do know that about you.
42:52 Speaker 05 So like, Jesus, what a whore.
42:55 Speaker 04 Yeah.
42:55 Speaker 05 That would have been.
42:56 Speaker 04 That's not you, in my opinion. That's not this timeline you. I was supposed to be a lawyer.
43:02 Speaker 05 What?
43:03 Speaker 04 You a doctor, me a lawyer? A power couple for sure, but...
43:07 Speaker 05 Oh, yeah, that's where we started.
43:08 Speaker 04 It's just not what we wanted.
43:09 Speaker 05 I do think we could be a couple. Do you think that you could, like, have a beard and sell it?
43:15 Speaker 04 Sell it?
43:19 Speaker 05 Oh, but I guess that's what you did in your youth, right?
43:22 Speaker 04 Yeah, I don't know that I was, I don't know that I was selling it. Oh, yeah, my youth. I don't know that I was selling it. I don't know that I was ever selling straight. I don't know that anyone ever really bought it.
43:31 Speaker 05 Okay.
43:32 Speaker 04 I think everyone was just politely... It's kind of like when you, it's kind of like when someone super, super Christian is around, a bunch of like atheists, but they're cool mostly.
43:42 Speaker 05 Yeah.
43:43 Speaker 04 And you just kind of tolerate the delusion because you like them. That's how people were treating my straightness, I think. They're like, he's mostly cool. Sure, he's straight.
43:51 Speaker 05 Okay, okay.
43:52 Speaker 04 Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.
43:53 Speaker 05 Yeah.
43:53 Speaker 04 You know, tolerating that.
43:54 Speaker 05 That's pretty kind. Sure, sure, sure, sure.
43:56 Speaker 04 But no, I don't think I was ever selling it.
43:57 Speaker 05 I'm the friend who's kind of Christian.
43:58 Speaker 04 No, super. I'm saying like super duper. I have plenty of friends that are kind of Christian.
44:01 Speaker 05 Oh, okay.
44:03 Speaker 04 Super.
44:03 Speaker 05 Like dead ass.
44:04 Speaker 04 Like, no, like being crazy about it.
44:06 Speaker 05 There's no, like, gray area, like, not like spiritual, but like Christian capital C.
44:10 Speaker 04 Like, everyone who's not Christian burns in hell, kind of Christians.
44:16 Speaker 04 Chic.
44:18 Speaker 04 Chic.
44:19 Speaker 05 I was debating wearing it, but I didn't want to turn your viewers away.
44:23 Speaker 04 You wouldn't. I have a lot of Christian viewers. My question for you is this, when I say super Christian, I mean, do you think undeniably with certainty?
44:29 Speaker 05 Oh, I know what you're gonna say.
44:30 Speaker 04 That people of every other faith go to hell?
44:32 Speaker 05 Yeah, no, no, no, no.
44:33 Speaker 04 See, that's what I'm talking about.
44:33 Speaker 05 I kind of don't even believe in hell, but we don't have time.
44:36 Speaker 04 That's the line in the sand for me. You cannot believe that every other faith goes to hell.
44:40 Speaker 05 That's crazy.
44:41 Speaker 04 And if you do, it's all my love, but you're in a cult.
44:44 Speaker 05 Bollywood or whatever the word is.
44:46 Speaker 04 I have a problem with Christianity. I like Christianity. I myself might even come back to it someday. I am just saying, to me, the big line in the sand is like, I also don't believe in hell. The big line in the sand is if you, if anybody of any faith believes genuinely in their heart that they are 100% correct and everyone else burns in hell for eternity.
45:02 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
45:03 Speaker 04 You're brainwashed and I can't be a part of it.
45:05 Speaker 05 Totally nuts, like, of course.
45:06 Speaker 04 That's crazy.
45:07 Speaker 05 Of course. Do you have?
45:09 Speaker 04 Do I have a faith?
45:09 Speaker 05 Regrets.
45:10 Speaker 04 Regrets. You're not gonna like my answer.
45:13 Speaker 05 No.
45:13 Speaker 04 I don't.
45:14 Speaker 05 But that's cool because that gives me hope.
45:17 Speaker 04 Yeah.
45:17 Speaker 05 Did, did you have regrets?
45:22 Speaker 05 I tried to say something nice to you people.
45:26 Speaker 04 No, I'm kidding. I love it. I love it.
45:32 Speaker 05 Was there a time that you had regrets?
45:35 Speaker 05 That you learned to let go of, or you've never had regrets all along?
45:39 Speaker 04 I think, it's not to say I've never done anything incorrectly or badly. I certainly regret that. I, I, I dislike that behaviors of mine have caused undesirable outcomes. But I don't regret anything because I haven't, I haven't majorly wronged anybody in my life. I haven't hurt anybody. I haven't ruined anyone's life. Not everyone can say that. So I wouldn't, I'm not, I don't think it's correct to have no regrets. I'm lucky to have.
46:08 Speaker 05 After we record, can you please tell me who you're thinking of when you say that someone has ruined someone's life?
46:13 Speaker 04 Yeah, I can. Um, but no, I don't have any regrets. I feel like everything, like it would be easy to look back and be like, oh man, I wish I would have like started comedy sooner or like not taken, uh, you know, school so seriously when I was 20. But I really don't feel that way. I think it taught me work ethic.
46:30 Speaker 05 It really made you who you are today.
46:32 Speaker 04 Yeah, everything's great. I like my life. I think if you, if you really genuinely present day enjoy your life,
46:37 Speaker 05 That's the tough thing is that most days I don't and I'm in so much pain. It's unimaginable.
46:43 Speaker 04 Is that true?
46:44 Speaker 05 Yeah.
46:44 Speaker 04 I'm not really sure how to engage with that, to be honest. Because that was such an earnest and intense thing to say.
46:49 Speaker 05 Oh, yeah, sorry.
46:50 Speaker 04 What kind?
46:51 Speaker 05 But it's okay.
46:51 Speaker 04 No, I'm not upset with it. I like that you said that.
46:53 Speaker 05 What kind of pain? Mental, emotional?
46:55 Speaker 04 Yeah, mental, emotional pain.
46:56 Speaker 05 I'm kind of surprised and relieved that you don't know this about me. I'm in anguish.
46:59 Speaker 04 Yeah. Well, is it like, what are we doing about it? Is there medication involved? Is there therapy?
47:07 Speaker 05 This is the year that I've... You got me, guys. I agree. We gotta get a professional in the mix.
47:16 Speaker 04 Okay, turn off the lights, bring everyone out. My family's in the closet. Yeah. We're gonna get a professional involved in my unceasing daily anguish.
47:26 Speaker 05 All right, all right.
47:29 Speaker 04 Yeah, okay. Joke's over. I'm gonna get help.
47:33 Speaker 04 All right. Yeah, my ceaseless pain is gonna become someone else's problem. All right. All right. You got me.
47:42 Speaker 04 I'm tired of going it alone.
47:46 Speaker 04 All I do is hurt. Anybody got options? Solutions?
47:52 Speaker 05 That is me. Okay. Oh, oh, the therapist coming out. Oh, the therapist was pretending to be the mailman. All right, all right. Give it up for Randy, y'all. And we'll be talking.
48:04 Speaker 04 I'll sit on the little couch. All right. What's going on? I heard all the time. Oh.
48:15 Speaker 04 I love it. I genuinely think it is so deeply cool that you said that. And also, I'd love to know what we're doing about it. Both.
48:25 Speaker 05 Mm hmm, mm hmm. It's pending because I'm because I'm busy.
48:28 Speaker 04 Yeah.
48:29 Speaker 05 But some, some, some, something's gotta be done.
48:32 Speaker 04 Something's gotta be done.
48:32 Speaker 05 Something's gotta be done. Things can't go on the way that they've been going.
48:37 Speaker 04 Yeah.
48:38 Speaker 05 But that's also, oh, I hate that I brought up the generation thing. But I think that's also Gen Z to be like, hi, good morning, I'm in despair.
48:46 Speaker 04 Yeah.
48:47 Speaker 05 Don't you think? I don't know.
48:48 Speaker 04 Uh, I'm certain that a lot of people in Gen Z are experiencing that, yeah.
48:52 Speaker 05 Or like the, the communication style of like, it actually, and even the way you received it. I felt bad, I think, for saying it because it's a bit much to burden you.
49:05 Speaker 04 No, I don't feel burdened by it at all. I think it's deeply cool. I like, I like honesty and I don't, I don't, I don't think it serves anyone to politely lie to, especially not in this context.
49:15 Speaker 05 Yeah.
49:15 Speaker 04 Are there, are there times where that would be probably too much to share with like a total stranger, maybe? But I'm your friend. I deeply care about you. Also, the point of a show like this is to like, talk about life. I think like, we're engaging in conversation about life and this is something a lot of people are experiencing. But I think, can you pinpoint?
49:33 Speaker 05 Suicide hotline number is under.
49:35 Speaker 04 Get help. Can you pinpoint like what the biggest, uh, I, you know, there's so many different buckets of dread. Is it state of the world dread? Is it personal? Like what, what is?
49:46 Speaker 05 Oh, see, again, you're, you're a good person. My dread is quite selfish.
49:51 Speaker 04 That's nice.
49:52 Speaker 05 I feel hope about the world.
49:53 Speaker 04 That's really funny.
49:54 Speaker 05 But not really about the case of Joe Sunday.
50:02 Speaker 04 That's really funny because your life is going great and the world's kind of going bad. So for you to be like, no, I think the world's gonna be fine. It's me that I'm stressed out about. That's really deeply funny to me. And I like that.
50:15 Speaker 05 Oh my gosh.
50:16 Speaker 04 What's, what's causing you stress about Joe Sunday? Do you want to talk about it or you kind of just wanted to move on?
50:20 Speaker 05 Um, no, no, no, we totally can talk about it. I mean, like,
50:25 Speaker 05 We're gonna have to cut that.
50:31 Speaker 04 We'll just bleep it. We'll bleep it and not say what you said. We're gonna have to cut that.
50:40 Speaker 04 And let's put a little blur over the lips so no one can lip read it. I mean, yeah, that'll, that'll be part of it for sure.
50:51 Speaker 05 I'm very, very lonely.
50:54 Speaker 04 Yeah.
50:55 Speaker 05 Yeah, it's, I call it the original loneliness. I think.
51:03 Speaker 05 Like if slash when I myself, I do think this will be like subject line of the note.
51:15 Speaker 05 I did such a good job. I did such a good job.
51:18 Speaker 04 Absolutely love that. If slash when I myself.
51:27 Speaker 04 I mean, this is, the funny thing is, you're saying it out loud, but this is like most comedians.
51:33 Speaker 05 Well, of course, isn't that the, it's like we, we, we, we, we put on the clown makeup to cover the tears.
51:39 Speaker 04 Yeah.
51:40 Speaker 05 We're all miserable.
51:41 Speaker 04 Yeah.
51:42 Speaker 05 Well, yeah.
51:48 Speaker 05 Okay, if you ever feel insulted by me, just remember, like, you're happy.
51:52 Speaker 04 What, I don't ever feel insulted by you.
51:53 Speaker 05 I have the underdog complex because I'm like, I'm, I'm, whatever.
51:59 Speaker 05 Oh, yeah, the original loneliness, like, I can't handle the idea that everything we feel at the end of the day have to feel it for ourselves.
52:11 Speaker 04 Do you?
52:11 Speaker 05 It's unbearable. You can share and you can talk, but like, it's even like when, when you said, is it your, is it my problem or yours? It is my problem because. As much as I want to, I can't like physically share a feeling with anybody.
52:27 Speaker 04 Right. We have to make sense of and deal with our own emotions at the end of the day. That is a-
52:31 Speaker 05 Why would you say that to me?
52:32 Speaker 04 Yeah, I know. I know. It sucks. It's a true, it's a true like-
52:36 Speaker 05 That's too, too difficult.
52:38 Speaker 04 It's a true stumbling block, I think, in the way of a lot of us in happiness is the thing that like, we genuinely, at the end of the day, every feeling we've ever experienced has been experienced by many other people and probably is at the exact same time.
52:50 Speaker 05 Oh, okay. Maybe that's hope. Maybe that's hope.
52:52 Speaker 04 But the way that you deal with it personally and how you choose to move through it is like ultimately up to you.
52:59 Speaker 05 Man, it's tough.
52:59 Speaker 04 And that part sucks.
53:00 Speaker 05 Man, it's tough. But maybe this is the kind of thing that people get into with this like therapy stuff-
53:04 Speaker 04 I think so.
53:04 Speaker 05 Or like the psychiatry. Okay, okay. I have tried therapy. Um, and every therapist I've had is like, listen, kid, like, I've reviewed your file.
53:18 Speaker 05 I'm not the one.
53:19 Speaker 04 Really?
53:20 Speaker 05 Yeah.
53:20 Speaker 04 Being turned away by mental health professionals? I don't think they should be allowed to do that.
53:24 Speaker 05 I had no idea it was an option.
53:33 Speaker 05 Uh, but it is. And yeah, my situation is pretty dire.
53:37 Speaker 04 Yeah.
53:37 Speaker 05 Yeah.
53:39 Speaker 04 There, how many, how many, genuinely, how many therapists have you been turned away from?
53:43 Speaker 05 Three.
53:44 Speaker 04 Three?
53:44 Speaker 05 Yeah.
53:45 Speaker 04 It's not a lot.
53:46 Speaker 05 Oh.
53:47 Speaker 04 It's not a lot. There's a lot of therapists out there in the world.
53:49 Speaker 05 Three is biblical.
53:51 Speaker 04 Three's crazy. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. Three's a, three's a bigger number than zero.
54:01 Speaker 04 I'm not gonna hold you on that. Hey, things aren't, things aren't perfect. Things aren't perfect. But it's not, it's not enough to give up. I'll tell you that.
54:15 Speaker 04 Three's a bigger number than zero.
54:16 Speaker 05 Uh, hey Caleb?
54:17 Speaker 04 Yes, ma'am.
54:21 Speaker 05 JK, JK. JK JK.
54:23 Speaker 04 No, we can find someone.
54:25 Speaker 05 Huge number.
54:26 Speaker 04 Three is, three is bigger than one or two.
54:28 Speaker 05 Three is a huge number, but yeah, we basically have no choice. Like, we gotta try again.
54:35 Speaker 04 We will try again. Can I help?
54:38 Speaker 04 Do you, do you want to send me?
54:40 Speaker 05 And it's, it's, it's the self sufficiency thing, that it's like, this is the year I'm kind of accepting help.
54:45 Speaker 04 Yeah. Send me your insurance information.
54:48 Speaker 05 Well, that's the thing.
54:49 Speaker 04 Do you have insurance?
54:51 Speaker 05 How do you sign up for that stuff?
54:53 Speaker 04 Okay. Okay. That is a huge part of it. You have insurance through your union. If you don't already, you will soon.
55:01 Speaker 05 Yeah, basically, I figured out how to get on. I was on Medicaid for a year and I got about beep beep number of UTIs. Boom, I was getting those antibiotics. Boom, I was drinking them up.
55:14 Speaker 05 And then, yeah, I have to sign up for this union health insurance.
55:17 Speaker 04 So I have really good news for you.
55:18 Speaker 05 Okay.
55:19 Speaker 04 And this is a thing to be excited about. The union insurance is incredible.
55:22 Speaker 05 It's good. I'm so excited. I'm gonna have appointments down.
55:26 Speaker 04 I went from having no insurance.
55:28 Speaker 05 I'm gonna go nail salon to the doctor salon.
55:30 Speaker 04 Right. I don't, I do not know if it covers nails. I haven't checked.
55:34 Speaker 05 No, no, no, but I'll cover my nails.
55:37 Speaker 04 Just checking.
55:38 Speaker 05 And then I'm seeing the sleep doctor, mental health doctor, the back doctor, the knee doctor, the endocrine doc. All the doctors are gonna be seeing me.
55:48 Speaker 04 I did appointment, I went crazy on appointments when I got union health insurance. Cause I didn't have any before. I was like really neglecting things.
55:54 Speaker 05 Do you feel comfortable to disclose what was the medical intervention that helped you the most? That made that like, yeah.
56:03 Speaker 04 Helped me the most?
56:04 Speaker 05 Or just like.
56:05 Speaker 04 The most concerning was my teeth. I really, I had cavities that I was not dealing with because I was so broke.
56:09 Speaker 05 That makes so much sense.
56:11 Speaker 04 And they hurt and I was poor.
56:12 Speaker 05 So scary.
56:13 Speaker 04 Scary, difficult and expensive.
56:15 Speaker 05 So mad at you and so mean.
56:16 Speaker 04 I'm still.
56:17 Speaker 05 You know who's great though?
56:18 Speaker 04 Fixing it, say it.
56:19 Speaker 05 Orthodontist.
56:20 Speaker 04 What? I've never been.
56:22 Speaker 05 I had adult braces for six years.
56:24 Speaker 04 Did you?
56:24 Speaker 05 Yeah.
56:25 Speaker 04 I've got a tooth that could come forward. This one, he's, he's pushed back. I'm not gonna do anything about it, but they would if I let them. I like him. I think it has character.
56:32 Speaker 05 That's, that's completely hot.
56:33 Speaker 04 They would fix him if they could.
56:34 Speaker 05 Two supermodels who have that tooth structure.
56:37 Speaker 04 Yeah, I got a couple other fucked up things too. These guys are a little weird. But my teeth were, my, they were never ugly. They were just like hurting. What?
56:44 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Proof of life.
56:45 Speaker 04 Proof of life. Yeah, I like weird teeth. I like weird teeth. I like weird faces. I think it's helpful as an actor. I'll never get work on my face ever in my entire life. I like being expressive. I'm not worried about wrinkles. I think they'll be good for me. Um, but I do.
57:01 Speaker 05 You are, well, I think almost everyone looks hotter as they age and you in particular. Oh my God, I'm seeing you a bit older and we, I think we are gonna date when you're older.
57:13 Speaker 04 Can I tell you something?
57:14 Speaker 05 What?
57:14 Speaker 04 I look at pictures of myself when I was 19 and picture myself now and I go, Hugh, you are so lucky, brother. I look so much better already than I did when I was 19.
57:24 Speaker 05 I mean, I bet you were adorable and like porcelain.
57:26 Speaker 04 I was like cute or whatever, but like, and now I'm, I'm looking, I'm looking at myself the last like year or so and I'm going, hey, brother.
57:33 Speaker 05 I do think with, truly with everyone, but especially with like boys or masculine people. Time just helps.
57:42 Speaker 04 Yeah.
57:43 Speaker 05 Just get a bit of weathering. There's a bit of a shaping that goes on.
57:47 Speaker 04 It doesn't help everybody though. I've seen, I've seen some people go through a rough situation.
57:52 Speaker 05 Okay.
57:53 Speaker 04 I've seen, twink death is real. I've seen some twigs go through trouble. Cause at first it's cute, you know, you're 21 and you're like the cutest guy on campus. You get to 32, all of a sudden gaunt.
58:07 Speaker 04 Gaunt. It doesn't, it doesn't go better for everyone. The it gets better campaign should have had a tagline for some of you.
58:19 Speaker 05 It should be like, it, it gets better, but like get some botox just in case.
58:22 Speaker 04 It gets better, but hey, I can't say.
58:24 Speaker 05 Yeah, it gets, it gets, it gets better, but no one is there, is available.
58:27 Speaker 04 Everybody's beautiful. Just kidding.
58:29 Speaker 05 Um, do, do you know, did you ever watch Flavor of Love?
58:34 Speaker 04 Of course I did.
58:34 Speaker 05 Okay, good, good, good. I love that. Um, there's this line where New York, it's the penultimate epic. Of season two, New York is talking about, um, who is that girl that says, oh, what's her name? I can't remember, but she's Goldie. No, yeah, Goldie, Goldie, the one who says, did everyone try the chicken? I thought the chicken was lovely.
58:51 Speaker 04 Yeah.
58:51 Speaker 05 It's New York versus Goldie.
58:53 Speaker 04 Yeah.
58:53 Speaker 05 And New York is like, kind of shocked that Goldie has made it so far. And she says about, like, she says that Goldie is cute, but she says cute next to gorgeous. Gorgeous is, you know, gonna devour cute.
59:05 Speaker 04 Yeah, I love that line. And I love that, by the way, Goldie, it wasn't Goldie that microwaved the chicken. Goldie was making fun of.
59:12 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
59:13 Speaker 04 The girl who microwaved the chicken. Hottie microwaved the chicken and Goldie was like, hottie. A full chicken in the microwave.
59:19 Speaker 05 But don't you think that hottie, where is hottie, by the way? Because don't you think that woman is a genius? Like, don't you think she knew she was being hilarious?
59:29 Speaker 04 I don't know. I would have to talk to her more. Cause if she knew and she was doing like performance art, then I think she's one of the most brilliant minds alive.
59:36 Speaker 05 Yeah.
59:36 Speaker 04 But I do think there are people who would microwave a chicken and I don't know which one she was. Cause I don't know her.
59:41 Speaker 05 I just really feel like.
59:46 Speaker 05 Maybe this is like my feminist campaign, that when a woman does something and we laugh, I want to err on the side of, I'm like auteur theory.
59:54 Speaker 04 I would love to.
59:56 Speaker 05 Um, because she had so, she had so many, she had so many other moments. Like she was the one who said, everyone tells her she looks like Beyonce.
1:00:03 Speaker 04 Beyonce.
1:00:04 Speaker 05 Beyonce, Beyonce, Beyonce.
1:00:05 Speaker 04 Beyonce, I am so sorry that an ugly bitch like this would even say some shit like that.
1:00:08 Speaker 05 Yes, oh, I forgot about that bar.
1:00:09 Speaker 04 Beyonce, you look like Luther Vandross. Yeah, I was there.
1:00:13 Speaker 05 I forgot about that bar.
1:00:14 Speaker 04 Oh, I was there.
1:00:15 Speaker 05 Ah, I was not there, but I caught it as soon as I was of age, I caught it on YouTube.
1:00:20 Speaker 04 I think New York's a genius.
1:00:21 Speaker 05 That clear as day.
1:00:23 Speaker 04 That's undeniable.
1:00:24 Speaker 05 Clear as day. Tiffany Pollard, is that how you say it?
1:00:26 Speaker 04 Tiffany New York Pollard.
1:00:27 Speaker 05 Tiffany New York Pollard. God, I love you. You made me.
1:00:31 Speaker 04 I love you.
1:00:32 Speaker 05 And you made me.
1:00:32 Speaker 04 You made so many of us.
1:00:33 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:00:34 Speaker 04 I ju, she's, she is foundational text.
1:00:37 Speaker 05 Genius.
1:00:38 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:00:38 Speaker 05 She's everything. Her, NeNe, and it's crazy, they wrote, well, the internet is dead now and memes and such are dead, but.
1:00:51 Speaker 05 For as long as they lived, it was written by those like four women. Like it was New York, Nene Leaks, um, the white lady from, well, Kim from season one of Real Housewives of Atlanta.
1:01:06 Speaker 05 And maybe like Deirdre or like one other per- like the whole internet. Like, I really think like probably like 85% of memes were of these women. It's not resonating what I'm saying.
1:01:19 Speaker 04 No, I just, I, I know Nene to me, I can only agree with because I've seen the, the memes and the outcome. I've never seen any Real Housewives episode. So I don't know anything about Real Housewives. Nene broke through. She's in a different stratosphere to me. So I don't know about, I don't know who Deirdre is, I don't know who Kim is.
1:01:35 Speaker 05 Okay, no worries, no worries.
1:01:36 Speaker 04 But I would like to.
1:01:36 Speaker 05 This was my observation is I spent a couple of years on the internet. I love memes, I love GIFs, I was, it was really, really in that. And I had also never watched Real Housewives. And then, uh, maybe like two years ago, I watched even the first episode, but like the first season of Real Housewives of Atlanta. Every me, it's, it's, it, you know, people are like watching the Mona Lisa being painted. Like every meme on the internet is from this one season of this specific show. You think that they're from the years and the years, but I swear it's all Real Housewives of Atlanta, season one.
1:02:10 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:02:12 Speaker 04 There's something to be said about our culture going from Real Housewives of Atlanta being the thing to Real Housewives of Salt Lake City being the thing. And I'm not liking the shift. And I, like I said, never seen either of them.
1:02:22 Speaker 05 Trace the fascism onto that.
1:02:23 Speaker 04 But let's just look at what that means along with what's happening with our government and take a peek at that. Someone needs to do a paper.
1:02:29 Speaker 05 I haven't seen these SLC ladies. I bet there's a college student out there right now drafting it.
1:02:34 Speaker 04 I wanna, I wanna see it.
1:02:35 Speaker 05 I wanna be in touch with them.
1:02:36 Speaker 04 I wanna see it bad.
1:02:37 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:02:38 Speaker 04 I wanna see it bad.
1:02:38 Speaker 05 What are you watching?
1:02:41 Speaker 04 I wa- I, I, when I answer this question, I want you guys to know.
1:02:44 Speaker 05 It's so loaded. Like I'm so sorry.
1:02:47 Speaker 04 I want you guys to know that I know how I sound and I'm not this guy, but I don't watch reality TV. Everyone hates that about me.
1:02:53 Speaker 05 No, no, that's okay, that's okay, that's okay. I watch documentaries. Oh, great, great, great, great, great.
1:02:57 Speaker 04 And I watch movies.
1:02:58 Speaker 05 Come on.
1:02:59 Speaker 04 And I feel bad that I don't watch, I wish I watched more garbage because I know that's in vogue right now.
1:03:03 Speaker 05 Wait, I, I- I presented a false image of myself as someone. I think reality TV is really cool.
1:03:10 Speaker 04 I'm not talking to you when I say this. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not defining myself to you. I don't feel the need to defend myself to my friend Joe.
1:03:14 Speaker 05 The people.
1:03:15 Speaker 04 I'm defining myself to the many, many listeners. Many. Big show.
1:03:18 Speaker 05 Wait, what are we called again? The truthers?
1:03:20 Speaker 04 Truthers, K-lembrides, K-lesbians, K-Latinas are a growing faction.
1:03:25 Speaker 05 Cool.
1:03:25 Speaker 04 The K-Latinas are becoming more and more vocal.
1:03:27 Speaker 05 K-Latinas.
1:03:28 Speaker 04 And I love, and I thank you, K-Latinas. Thank you for being here.
1:03:31 Speaker 05 What about the Cajuns?
1:03:32 Speaker 04 Uh, I haven't heard much from the Cajuns, but I would really love to hear from you, the Cajuns, if you're out there. Um, really any group that identifies as a supporter of Caleb, I want to hear from them.
1:03:44 Speaker 05 I'm trying to think, we could be like,
1:03:52 Speaker 05 I was gonna say something like so offensive. Like I was trying to mix Caleb and like black people, but it was gonna come out like so, just like Jim Crow and wrong.
1:04:01 Speaker 04 Yeah, I don't think it's obviously my place. I felt pretty comfortable starting K-L- K-lembrides. That was where, that's the contribution I gave to the.
1:04:08 Speaker 05 I know, I wanted to give you one, but it was gonna, I was gonna say like the K-Blackies or something, but it was like.
1:04:13 Speaker 04 That's exactly what I was.
1:04:16 Speaker 04 That's so crazy. No, I don't know what it would be. I guess black, black Caleb fans, let me know.
1:04:22 Speaker 05 Do you know that surely somebody in this room knows the demographic makeup of your listeners?
1:04:28 Speaker 04 Oh, not by number, but it's a whole bunch of women. It's a lot of women.
1:04:34 Speaker 05 Great.
1:04:34 Speaker 04 Most, I would say.
1:04:35 Speaker 05 We touched on some womenly topics.
1:04:37 Speaker 04 I would say seven, probably sixty-five, seventy percent women.
1:04:40 Speaker 05 Mm-hmm.
1:04:41 Speaker 04 Uh, that's a number that I'm like pretty sure of.
1:04:43 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:04:44 Speaker 04 Um, more straight guys than you would think.
1:04:46 Speaker 05 Question mark, or we don't know about that?
1:04:48 Speaker 04 I don't know racial makeup. Uh, based on who approaches me, it's a pretty even mix of like racial background.
1:04:56 Speaker 05 Cool.
1:04:56 Speaker 04 Uh, more straight guys than you would think. More straight guys than I'm comfortable with. Shout out to you, boys, but I am surprised that you're here and I don't really know, I don't know what's doing it for you, but I'm so glad that you're here. I hope that we're all learning something.
1:05:10 Speaker 05 Unfortunately, like my best, well, I have a lot of best friends, but like my best fucking friend is a straight guy, so.
1:05:15 Speaker 04 Really?
1:05:17 Speaker 04 I would never. I don't, there's not a single straight guy that I respect. There's not one straight guy that I hang out with, respect, or like, not one.
1:05:24 Speaker 05 But that, that's a green flag to me. That's princip- oh, I see, I see. You're bullying, you're bullying, Mr. Chance.
1:05:31 Speaker 04 I'm bullying Chance and also a bunch of other people I love very much.
1:05:34 Speaker 05 I'm sorry.
1:05:35 Speaker 04 Some of my closest friends are straight guys. They're a delightful community.
1:05:38 Speaker 05 Well, can I, I was gonna say something that I think is hack and I'm sorry that I'm truly just arriving at this now. Chance is straight Caleb.
1:05:47 Speaker 04 Caleb is gay Chance.
1:05:49 Speaker 05 Oh.
1:05:50 Speaker 04 Think about that.
1:05:54 Speaker 04 Well, Chance and I have known each other since we were 17 years old.
1:05:56 Speaker 05 I know.
1:05:57 Speaker 04 So we have-
1:05:58 Speaker 05 Of course you would morph like Brad Pitt and his girlfriends.
1:06:00 Speaker 04 We have been in the trenches. We've been in the trenches.
1:06:06 Speaker 04 Asian Caleb fans, please let me know if you like Cajuns. If you don't, that's no worries. We would love to hear from you. Black Caleb fans, I love you deeply.
1:06:14 Speaker 05 But I could also be, couldn't Cajuns be for like black people from the south or not really?
1:06:18 Speaker 04 That's really smart. Yeah, that's really, really smart.
1:06:20 Speaker 05 I hate puns. Or not really, but I hate, I don't like when a joke hinges on the fact that a word sounds like another word or a word could be misunderstood for another word. I think that's cheap.
1:06:32 Speaker 04 Yeah. I'm really, I'm kind of into it.
1:06:34 Speaker 05 Really? No, I said the wrong thing. I said the wrong thing.
1:06:37 Speaker 04 You didn't say the wrong thing at all. I think it's interesting that you don't like it. But Caleberties means a lot to me.
1:06:42 Speaker 05 I'm not explaining it well. Like, I do like, like, like Jane had this joke where she was like, my name's Tamara. I'll tell you tomorrow. I thought that was adorable and really, really made me laugh. But I don't like when a joke is like, oh, like people are always doing, oh, fuck, I can't remember, but they're like, oh, people are all, oh, I'm, I'm being mean for no reason. People are always doing a joke where the word melatonin sounds like melanin. They're always doing a joke where they're like, someone like gave me melatonin, but I thought I was gonna like wake up African American or something. I'm like.
1:07:18 Speaker 04 Me fiercely editing my next hour, crossing things out. Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. Yeah, that joke sucks. That's why you don't like it.
1:07:26 Speaker 05 Right. I think it's probably just one specific joke.
1:07:28 Speaker 04 That joke sucks. I hate that joke.
1:07:30 Speaker 05 Wait, you were saying something interesting. Oh, and I was remembering I have something interesting to ask you.
1:07:33 Speaker 04 Go ahead.
1:07:34 Speaker 05 Let's say yours, because I'm remembering mine.
1:07:35 Speaker 04 Oh, I was just saying, black, black Caleb fans, please let us know what you'd like your fan name to be.
1:07:41 Speaker 05 Oh, I remembered mine.
1:07:42 Speaker 04 Say.
1:07:42 Speaker 05 Who is your ideal audience member?
1:07:47 Speaker 04 Ideal audience?
1:07:48 Speaker 05 Or actually, it's two questions. Like, one,
1:07:52 Speaker 05 when you're writing, when you're writing,
1:07:57 Speaker 05 is there a person you have in mind who you're writing for? And does that person match with who your dream audience member is, like the person you actually want to be watching your stuff, coming to your shows, et cetera?
1:08:10 Speaker 04 I genuinely try as hard as I can when I'm writing not to think about the audience at all. I try so hard to remove them from it entirely.
1:08:17 Speaker 05 Are you thinking about yourself?
1:08:18 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:08:19 Speaker 05 You're writing with the man in the mirror?
1:08:20 Speaker 04 Yeah, I'm thinking, what do I think is funny? What am I genuinely trying to say? What is the point? Do I think this is acceptable?
1:08:25 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:08:26 Speaker 04 It is a very hard practice, and I'm not saying that I accomplish it, but that is what I'm trying to do.
1:08:30 Speaker 05 Cool, cool, cool.
1:08:30 Speaker 04 I am most, I will say,
1:08:37 Speaker 04 black audiences are the most discerning about comedy.
1:08:40 Speaker 05 They're tough.
1:08:41 Speaker 04 And white comics.
1:08:42 Speaker 05 Because black people are so funny.
1:08:43 Speaker 04 Black people are so funny, and black people also, I feel that, I feel that black people, black audiences specifically, they don't do pity. They give it to you when you've earned it, and they don't when you don't.
1:08:56 Speaker 05 Seriously.
1:08:56 Speaker 04 And white audiences really do pity.
1:08:58 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:08:59 Speaker 04 And I don't want pity. I want to be really, really good.
1:09:02 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah.
1:09:03 Speaker 04 So when I make a black audience laugh, or an audience that has more black people in it, or if I'm looking at an audience and I see, you know, like, as is the case at a lot of Brooklyn venues, if I see 300 white people and six black people, I'm.
1:09:15 Speaker 05 Performing for.
1:09:16 Speaker 04 I'm mostly looking at the six black people.
1:09:17 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:09:18 Speaker 04 Because if I'm making the black audience members genuinely laugh.
1:09:22 Speaker 05 That's real, it counts.
1:09:23 Speaker 04 Then I know that I can trust it. If I'm making like, you know, I don't know, a lot of, a lot of white audiences really do just give pity laughs. And I'm like, I'm not interested in that. I want to be genuinely good. So I genuinely do really appreciate when a, when a black person finds me funny.
1:09:41 Speaker 04 But I have a lot of white fans, and I am genuinely grateful that they come and find me funny as well. But I would say like, yeah, I think there is a tendency towards like,
1:09:51 Speaker 04 I mean, yeah, like white lies, like polite, like there's a tendency towards politeness that I'm just not really interested in.
1:09:59 Speaker 04 So I would say that.
1:10:00 Speaker 05 And is there any element to, like, I'm thinking about how, you know, on we slash we sports resort? Or you know, on we, the Nintendo we?
1:10:10 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:10:10 Speaker 05 You would make a me.
1:10:11 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:10:12 Speaker 05 And thinking about how, for some reason, through my entire childhood, all my me's were white. How are we gonna reconcile this?
1:10:20 Speaker 04 What are we gonna do about that?
1:10:21 Speaker 05 What are we gonna do about that? Is there anything to you, when you're thinking about your ideal audience member? Is there anything to the question of like, does that person match you? Is that person like a gay person from Missouri? Or are they someone totally different?
1:10:38 Speaker 04 No, I don't think of an ideal audience member, really. I like.
1:10:44 Speaker 05 Cool.
1:10:44 Speaker 04 Like I said, I would like to kill in rooms that I think are difficult to kill, like to kill in. That's what I would like the most. I think, and I also think white comics know this, by the way. I think a lot of white comics don't perform in black rooms because they know that it won't go well. And so I think this is a known fact and what you do about it is your business, but.
1:11:03 Speaker 05 Even this is something that's kind of a question for me. Because it's also like, well, do you like? I wonder if maybe there's something to be said for
1:11:15 Speaker 05 something that I'm, that I like about the state of comedy today is that,
1:11:21 Speaker 05 Jesus Christ, I'm sorry to be giving my, no one asked for my opinion about the state of comedy.
1:11:25 Speaker 04 I did.
1:11:25 Speaker 05 Okay.
1:11:29 Speaker 05 Oh, there just are so many comedy fans and so it can be cool to find your niche. And maybe some people feel like, is it good? Like, if you don't kill in certain rooms, is it good to be like, okay, well, like, those, those seller people aren't my business anyway? Or should you still really go for it and try?
1:11:46 Speaker 04 No, I'm not interested in performing at the cellar of the store, not because of the audiences necessarily, but because I don't like the way they do biz, I don't care.
1:11:52 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah.
1:11:53 Speaker 04 I'm not gonna come and like, they, they asked me to perform at the Comedy Store in LA. They're like, come and do our like, come and work your way up and do our potluck. And I'm like, I sell out.
1:12:01 Speaker 05 Work your way up?
1:12:03 Speaker 04 I sell out rooms three times the size of that room. I don't need to work my way up.
1:12:06 Speaker 05 Crazy, that's so funny.
1:12:08 Speaker 04 But that's the thing is I'm like, that's that, do whatever you want. I don't care, I don't care. And also, if I bombed in front of a room of like midtown tourists, would I care?
1:12:17 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:12:19 Speaker 04 But that's the thing is you have to be, you have to believe in your thing regardless. But some comics, yeah, their thing doesn't work in a lot of rooms and they don't care. They're like anti comedy comics and I think they're, I really laugh at those sets and enjoy them. It's not what I want to do, but I think it's awesome.
1:12:33 Speaker 05 I hear you. I hear you. Yeah. I think I'm a little more with you on this.
1:12:37 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:12:37 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:12:38 Speaker 04 I would like, I would like to get laughs.
1:12:42 Speaker 04 But yeah, I think it's cool when people have a different way of doing it. I think the fun thing about comedy and the times I feel most like honored and excited to be part of like the comedy world is when there's a lineup with people who do it all very differently.
1:12:55 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:12:56 Speaker 04 And I get to watch everybody and be like, oh, fuck, I love when, I could never do what Sarah Skorm does. I could never do what Chris Fleming does. I could never do.
1:13:03 Speaker 05 Oh, my God, you're making my dream lineup. I'm like getting hot in my pants. Yes.
1:13:09 Speaker 04 The first time I saw her on a lineup, I was like, I don't have access.
1:13:12 Speaker 05 Yes.
1:13:13 Speaker 04 I don't have access to what she does.
1:13:15 Speaker 05 Completely.
1:13:16 Speaker 04 Don't need it. I do what I do.
1:13:17 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:13:17 Speaker 04 But it's fun to watch lineups where you're like.
1:13:19 Speaker 05 Who's gonna make this? Me. My next show. Boom. Here we go.
1:13:22 Speaker 04 Come on.
1:13:23 Speaker 05 Can I ask you another comedy question? Oh, but finish your thought.
1:13:25 Speaker 04 That's it. I just love it. I just love when it's different.
1:13:27 Speaker 05 Yes. Is laughter your god? And I can explain what I mean by that, or you can take it, or you can take it as you hear it.
1:13:35 Speaker 04 Explain what you mean, because I'm interested.
1:13:36 Speaker 05 Okay. Well.
1:13:42 Speaker 05 It's a bit shady. I don't think it'll come across as shady and whoever would take it that way won't be listening to this anyway. I was talk, there's, there, there was a comic who I felt.
1:13:58 Speaker 05 Here I go. There was a com, okay, I'll, I'll be vague. I'll be vague. There was a comic, I don't even like the word comic. There was a comedian, there was a clown, whose jokes I felt were harmful. I really didn't like them. I really took issue. But they were getting a lot of traction online and at shows. And I met this person and I asked them, like.
1:14:23 Speaker 05 Why do you do that? Like, do you really believe that stuff? Do you really dislike XYZ category of person? And that person's response was so interesting. They were like, no, I roll with all kinds of people. I don't care at all. I just say that stuff because it gets the reaction I want. It just gets the audience, just gets me the sound of laughter that I need. And to me, that is laughter is your god. That that's that's the the central thing is just like, what can I say to get the sound of laughter? Whereas other people like, I'm such a big fan of like Jacqueline Novak. I feel like her god is like, maybe like
1:15:06 Speaker 05 the idea or like the narrative, maybe something like that. So I'm curious for you, where do you stand?
1:15:14 Speaker 04 I think this, I I phrase this question differently for myself. But when you explained it, I understood it as a question that I have asked myself. I think every comedian has to ask themselves this question in some way at at some point. If you've been doing it for long enough, you have to decide. The way I ask it is, do you want to be funny more than you want to be anything? And the answer is no. I want to be a good person more than I want to be anything. And I want to be funny really, really, really badly. And I don't actually, me personally, I don't actually disrespect people who want to be funny more than they want to be anything. There are comics I like who-
1:15:47 Speaker 05 I think I don't quite either.
1:15:49 Speaker 04 I don't care. I'm like, good for you. I'm like, go nuts. If I don't like the joke, I'm like, whatever. If you want to be funny more than you want to be anything, do I think that's going to lead you to like a spiritually happy, good, content place? Do I think that's going to lead to a necessarily good life? No, that's why I'm not doing it. But I want to be a good person more than I want to be anything. And then in a very close second, I want to be funny really badly. But it matters, you know?
1:16:18 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:16:19 Speaker 04 I'm assuming that you are not in the camp of laughter as god.
1:16:25 Speaker 05 No, and I think it's to my detriment.
1:16:28 Speaker 04 That's interesting.
1:16:28 Speaker 05 I think I'm a little bit too nerdy about comedy. I think I spend too much time thinking, what's really the truth here? What can I find? What can I twist? It's like, it's not, it's not a master's thesis.
1:16:43 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:16:44 Speaker 05 Tell a fucking joke.
1:16:45 Speaker 04 Really, really interesting point. I do that a lot. Like, I, I will oftentimes be testing a joke where I'm trying to do way too much.
1:16:53 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:16:53 Speaker 04 And then I s-
1:16:54 Speaker 05 I think that's something I've noticed as like, kind of a poison rising up in Brooklyn comedy a little bit.
1:17:02 Speaker 04 Yeah, and honey, I've been poisoned before.
1:17:04 Speaker 05 Like a stand-up set that's an essay.
1:17:06 Speaker 04 Yeah. I, yeah, I've, I've noticed, I've caught myself doing that before.
1:17:09 Speaker 05 You've been poisoned. Me too, me, I'm, I'm poisoned all the time, yeah.
1:17:12 Speaker 04 And then you draw it back and it's way funnier.
1:17:14 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:17:15 Speaker 04 Well, Joe, we have one last thing for you. We're almost done.
1:17:19 Speaker 05 Oh, man, I'm gonna miss you. Oh, gosh.
1:17:21 Speaker 04 It sucks that we can never talk again after this. I hate that. We should take that out of the contract.
1:17:26 Speaker 05 The grief will, the grief will consume me.
1:17:28 Speaker 04 And we'll talk off-camera about some stuff.
1:17:31 Speaker 05 Oh.
1:17:34 Speaker 04 Therapy and all that. Are you ready? We're gonna play a true-false segment.
1:17:38 Speaker 05 Okay.
1:17:39 Speaker 04 I'm gonna read you 15 statements. You're gonna tell me as quickly as you can if what I just said was true or false.
1:17:43 Speaker 05 Okay.
1:17:43 Speaker 04 Joe, if you get 10 or more correct, we're gonna give you 50 US dollars.
1:17:46 Speaker 05 Boom.
1:17:46 Speaker 04 Are you ready?
1:17:46 Speaker 05 Lunch.
1:17:47 Speaker 04 The Houston Texans have won two Super Bowls.
1:17:51 Speaker 05 False.
1:17:52 Speaker 04 False, zero. Rebecca Black's song "Friday" came out on a Thursday.
1:17:58 Speaker 05 True.
1:17:59 Speaker 04 True. Ants don't have lungs.
1:18:00 Speaker 05 You're, the way you're telling me the answer right away is totally messing with me. Ants don't have lungs. Uh, true.
1:18:06 Speaker 04 True. The first credit card was invented in 1915.
1:18:11 Speaker 05 True.
1:18:12 Speaker 04 False, 1950.
1:18:13 Speaker 05 Ah, that's what I thought, okay.
1:18:15 Speaker 04 Ghana has the seventh-largest population among African countries.
1:18:19 Speaker 05 Hmm, did you put that for me?
1:18:21 Speaker 04 I didn't write them. I won't lie to you.
1:18:23 Speaker 05 Ghana's the seventh largest, that, I mean, that's like, that's,
1:18:28 Speaker 05 seventh-largest isn't anything. Come on.
1:18:35 Speaker 05 False.
1:18:36 Speaker 04 False, 13th. Point Nemo is the farthest place from land on Earth.
1:18:40 Speaker 05 Okay, is like, do you have a house there? Sorry, I started to talk to me, kill Tony to answer the question.
1:18:49 Speaker 05 Um, I don't freaking know, false.
1:18:51 Speaker 04 True. It takes two years for a single pineapple to grow fully.
1:18:55 Speaker 05 Uh, true.
1:18:57 Speaker 04 True. Portland, Oregon was almost named Boston, Oregon.
1:19:00 Speaker 05 True.
1:19:00 Speaker 04 True. Trees have been on Earth longer than sharks.
1:19:03 Speaker 05 False.
1:19:04 Speaker 04 False. Goats have rectangular pupils.
1:19:06 Speaker 05 False.
1:19:07 Speaker 04 True. The mascot for the University of Chicago is Marty the Maroon.
1:19:11 Speaker 05 LOL, uh, false, because I think it's a phoenix?
1:19:14 Speaker 04 False, it's Phil the Phoenix.
1:19:15 Speaker 05 Ah.
1:19:15 Speaker 04 SpongeBob SquarePants and Squidward are voiced by the same actor.
1:19:18 Speaker 05 Oh, man, I wish I knew, false.
1:19:20 Speaker 04 False. The guy who invented Pringles had his ashes buried in a Pringles can.
1:19:23 Speaker 05 Uh, probably true, sicko.
1:19:25 Speaker 04 True. Komodo dragons have opposable thumbs.
1:19:28 Speaker 05 These are such fun facts. Uh, true, because I think that's how they do them in the cartoons.
1:19:35 Speaker 04 Yeah, false.
1:19:37 Speaker 04 Last one. The first Avatar movie has made more money than Avatar 2.
1:19:42 Speaker 05 Um, true.
1:19:45 Speaker 04 True. How'd she do? 11. Yeah, let's go. Winner, winner, winner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, proud of you. Great job on the game.
1:19:55 Speaker 05 Why, thank you.
1:19:56 Speaker 04 Hey, Joe, is there anything you want to tell people where they can find you, etc.?
1:19:58 Speaker 05 Oh, um, yeah, my Instagram is joe.loffrice, like the food. Um, and you can see me
1:20:11 Speaker 05 in the credits. It goes by quicker than you can imagine, in the credits of a certain TV show that airs every Saturday night.
1:20:20 Speaker 04 It's MSNBC.
1:20:21 Speaker 05 MSNBC.
1:20:21 Speaker 04 You wait for MSNBC. Uh, thanks so much for being on, we love you. Thanks for doing it.
1:20:25 Speaker 05 Oh my God, I love you so much. Thank you, guys.
1:20:28 Speaker 04 We did.
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Previous Chris Fleming Returns Again Next Molly Kearney Returns Page updated October 31, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated