HAUNTED: Annabelle the Doll

In the 1970s, two nursing students were given a stuffed doll that seemed to take on a life of its own. Not only would they return to find the doll in new positions around the home, soon it began writing them notes. With the help of a medium, the women learned the doll was possessed by the spirit of a little girl named Annabelle. But when the doll's actions became physical, they realized the entity was a lot more sinister.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

  You guys, I am deep in the Barbie phase with my daughter right now. They're all over, all the time, staring at me from every angle. But at least they're cute, beautiful even. But I don't know if you've ever seen the things our parents and grandparents used to play with? Some of those toys make me think like, how the heck did you sleep at night with this thing staring at you from the corner of your room? Like, what were toy makers thinking back then? It's no wonder demonic entities gravitate towards these creepy things. Now, I know some of you are thinking, toys only get possessed in cheesy horror movies.

• 0:43Speaker 00

  But if that's the case, then you haven't heard the true story behind Annabelle the Doll. In the 1970s, Annabelle's owners had some pretty terrifying experiences with the doll. Like disturbing noises, finding creepy notes, even receiving injuries from her. That is, until she was eventually turned over to a museum. And that's when Annabelle got more powerful. Those who came in questioning her abilities left as believers. And those who came in mocking her sometimes would end up dead.

• 1:24Speaker 00

  I'm Ashley Flowers, and this is So Supernatural.

• 1:39Rasha Pecoraro?

  Aloha, friends. I'm Rasha Peñararo.

• 1:41Yvette Gentile?

  And I'm Yvette Gentile.

• 1:43Rasha Pecoraro?

  Now, Yvette, you know that I'm a big, huge scaredy cat. And so, some of these topics that Ashley sends us freak me out, but none more than this one. How are you feeling about today?

• 1:57Yvette Gentile?

  Yeah, this one is definitely eerie. Growing up, I didn't have a Raggedy Ann doll. Instead, I had a lot of Barbie dolls. And honestly, I think Raggedy Ann kind of creeped me out a little bit, even back then. But I know you had one, right, Rush?

• 2:12Rasha Pecoraro?

  Good memory. I did have one growing up. And while I do have some faint memories of playing with her, those memories are nothing like today's story. Because in 1970, two nursing students realized they were being haunted by their seemingly innocent Raggedy Ann doll.

• 2:29Yvette Gentile?

  Only they realized that the doll, which was said to be possessed by the spirit of a little girl, could actually move around, make objects appear out of thin air, and injure people. But even when they got rid of the doll, its reign of terror didn't end.

• 2:55Speaker 03

  When an intruder approaches a home, they expect a camera. What they don't expect...

• 2:59Speaker 04

  Stop. This is SimpliSafe. Police are on the way.

• 3:02Speaker 03

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• 3:19Speaker 05

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• 3:58Yvette Gentile?

  Okay, Rasha, I have a question for you. What is the creepiest gift that you've ever been given?

• 4:03Rasha Pecoraro?

  So, the first thing that comes to mind for me was something that was given to me by my father. Now, it's not something you typically think of as a creepy gift, per se, but creepy things happened with this particular gift.

• 4:17Yvette Gentile?

  Okay, I gotta know, you gotta tell me about this story.

• 4:21Rasha Pecoraro?

  So it's a lucky cat. It's black. It's really small. And we have several in our house, so I'm not thinking that it's creepy because it's a lucky cat. It's a Hawaiian tradition. We have them for luck. But my dad gave this one to me a long time ago. And of course, I'm not going to get into it today, but I don't have a relationship with him. So I wanted to get rid of that particular lucky cat. But then it ended up coming back into the house after I threw it out in the garbage. Vanna swears that she didn't go back into the garbage and bring it back into the house. And Leilani was too little to even contemplate going into the garbage. So I have no idea how it reappeared.

• 5:02Rasha Pecoraro?

  But needless to say, I still have it in my house to this day because I'm too creeped out to throw it out again.

• 5:09Yvette Gentile?

  Okay, well, I definitely don't have anything that creepy. But many years ago, Mom gave me this Flip Wilson doll. And if you don't know who he is, he was a legendary black comedian. One of his most famous roles was playing a woman named Geraldine. So this doll, one side was him as Flip Wilson as a man, and the other side was him dressed up as Geraldine. And even though it was really funny, I think it's probably the, I don't even know if I would say creepiest, but the strangest toy that I ever got. But look, you know, I don't want to come across as ungrateful because for the most part, I'm usually pretty happy with the gifts people get me, especially the ones that you can tell really come from the heart.

• 5:54Rasha Pecoraro?

  Well, today's story is also about a gift. But this one didn't seem to come from the heart. Honestly, if anything, it seemed like it was from the depths of hell. It all started in the spring of 1970. Two women, who we know only as Donna and Angie, were living in a small apartment somewhere around New Haven, Connecticut. They were also in nursing school together, so as you can imagine, they were pretty close. Plus, Donna and Angie had a lot to look forward to. Their graduation was coming up, and Donna was about to turn 28, which is why her mom swung by their place one afternoon with a pretty interesting birthday gift: A Raggedy Ann doll.

• 6:36Yvette Gentile?

  And for those of you who don't know or don't remember, Raggedy Ann dolls have thick red yarn for hair and they have a stitched triangle nose. Unlike some other dolls with plastic or porcelain heads, they're completely stuffed, so they're supposed to be super snuggly.

• 6:53Rasha Pecoraro?

  That was actually a big reason why they were so popular when they hit the market back in 1918. Plus, you have to admit, the goofy hair and the little dress are kinda cute.

• 7:04Yvette Gentile?

  Well, as we all know, trends repeat themselves, right? And in the 1970s, when Donna and Angie's story takes place, nostalgia got a hold of people. Raggedy Ann was suddenly flying off the shelves again. The New York Times even reported on the comeback, which was probably why Donna's mom thought it would make the perfect birthday gift. Although, if you're asking me, I feel like that may be a little odd for a 28-year-old woman.

• 7:32Rasha Pecoraro?

  I was thinking the exact same thing, but, you know, it was a collector's item, so maybe that's why her mom got it. And because the doll was so popular at the time, Donna and Angie even decided to make it a part of their home decor. They sat it on their sofa and it became kinda like a conversation piece whenever friends stopped by. But shortly after receiving the doll, Donna noticed something unsettling about it. Donna was studying in her bedroom one afternoon while Angie was out. When she went into the living room to grab a book, she saw the doll sitting in its usual spot on the sofa, except its arms were lifted over its head, rested against the back of the couch, almost like it was relaxing.

• 8:17Rasha Pecoraro?

  Donna thought maybe Angie had positioned the doll that way, like as a joke. And even though she thought it was weird that she hadn't noticed it earlier, she just brushed it off and went back to her room. A little while later, when she came back out again, Donna noticed that the doll's arms were backed down by its sides and its legs were crossed. Angie still wasn't home, so this really freaked Donna out. She ran back to her room, shut the door, and didn't come out until she heard Angie return a little while later. Except, get this, when Angie got home, the doll was back to its usual position. It was sitting on the couch with its arms by its side and its legs straight out in front. When Donna asked Angie if she had been repositioning the doll as a joke,

• 9:02Rasha Pecoraro?

  Angie said, "No, absolutely not."

• 9:05Yvette Gentile?

  The first thing I would think is maybe her roommate is playing a prank on her or something, right? But the thing is, this odd behavior continued for the next couple of weeks, and the doll's position kept getting creepier and creepier. Like, one day, Donna came home to find the stuffed doll literally standing on two feet on the sofa. She jumped and turned away, but when she looked back only a few seconds later, the doll was sitting in its normal position. Donna began to wonder if she had started imagining things. Like, maybe all those late-night study sessions for her finals were starting to take a toll on her.

• 9:48Yvette Gentile?

  But it soon became clear, whatever was happening was not a figment of her imagination.

• 9:55Rasha Pecoraro?

  A few days later, Donna went over to the sofa to put her feet up and relax. That's when she noticed the doll wasn't there at all. She figured Angie had moved it while she was cleaning or something. But the more she thought about it, the more something felt off. It wasn't just the missing doll that was bugging her. The whole room felt heavy. So Donna decided to spend the day in her bedroom instead. At some point, she left her room for a minute or two. We're not sure why, probably just to use the bathroom or grab something out in the living room. But when she returned, she noticed her bedroom door was closed. And get this, she distinctly remembered leaving it open earlier. Donna was really creeped out now.

• 10:39Rasha Pecoraro?

  The closer she got to the door, the bigger the pit in her stomach grew. She slowly placed her hand on the doorknob. Her heart began beating out of her chest. And as the door creaked open, she saw exactly what she was afraid of. The raggedy And doll sitting in the middle of her bed, staring right at her.

• 11:00Yvette Gentile?

  Okay, so this was scary enough when the doll was switching positions. But now it's moving around the apartment on its own, which y'all is when I say, "Take this raggedy ann to the dumpster. Get it out of my apartment." But for some reason, I don't know, morbid curiosity maybe, Donna put it back on the sofa, which was obviously a huge mistake. But the more I think about it, I wonder, do some supernatural entities have this control over us? Because the first thing we often do is we want to scream like, "Get out of the house," or, you know, "Get rid of the doll." But the weird thing is, it seems like in a lot of these cases,

• 11:46Yvette Gentile?

  people just can't.

• 11:48Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah, it's easy for us just to sit here and say, "Run, get out, get rid of the doll." Because from an outside perspective, it may seem just so clear to us, right? But when you're in the thick of it, there's so many reasons why you wouldn't. A part of it, I'm sure, is questioning, like, is what I'm seeing even real? It's the rational part of our brains, even if our intuition might be trying to nudge us in a different direction. But here's where it gets even weirder. The day after this happened, Donna and Angie were hanging out in the living room with the doll, still there, sitting at the end of the sofa. At some point, Donna spotted something out of the corner of her eye.

• 12:30Rasha Pecoraro?

  A shred of paper was lying on the ground a few feet away, and she could tell there was something written on it. Normally, she wouldn't give this a second thought. I mean, there in college, what student hasn't crumpled up a piece of notebook paper, tossed it in the trash and missed? But the thing is, the paper that Donna saw was parchment paper, you know, like for baking, which she and Angie never did. So naturally, she was curious to see where it came from. They picked it up, flipped it over, and that's when they saw it. Scribbled on the piece of paper were the words, "Help me." And the handwriting was sloppy, like a child wrote it. The women turned to look at the doll,

• 13:13Rasha Pecoraro?

  and its usual little smirk pointed back at them. Neither of them had to say it out loud, but it was obvious that they were both thinking the same thing. It's the doll.

• 13:26Yvette Gentile?

  And that's what made Donna and Angie realize that they were dealing with something serious. But as concerned as they were, they couldn't help but wonder, like, why? Why did the doll need their help? They could sense the answer to that question was hidden somewhere far beyond the walls of their apartment. So they contacted a medium and made an appointment for her to come over later that week. But in the meantime, the roommates kept finding mysterious notes, and they were all written on that parchment paper, just like the first one. Only the message was slightly different each time. Sometimes it said, "Help me," like before.

• 14:09Yvette Gentile?

  Other times, it said, "Help us," and even, "Help Lou."

• 14:17Rasha Pecoraro?

  And I'm sure you're wondering, who the heck is Lou? Well, Lou was Angie's boyfriend, and he was at their apartment a lot. So it made sense that the doll would know who he was. But still, Donna and Angie don't understand what these messages are about. They don't get why the doll needs help, or why on earth Lou would need help. Plus, the messages had a vibe that was really foreboding and sinister. So all three of them were absolutely terrified.

• 14:48Yvette Gentile?

  The medium couldn't get there fast enough, and when she finally did arrive, she said the only way to find out what the doll was really thinking was to perform a séance. There's no telling exactly how this played out, but I think it's safe to say that they dimmed the lights, gathered around a table, maybe lit some candles, until eventually someone...

• 15:12Rasha Pecoraro?

  Or something.

• 15:13Yvette Gentile?

  ...made contact from the other side. The medium said the spirit of a seven-year-old girl named Annabelle Higgins was there with them.

• 15:25Yvette Gentile?

  And we're not sure what year Annabelle was born. But as the medium spoke to the little girl, she learned that years earlier, her family had lived on the land where Donna and Angie's apartment building was now. Annabelle said her childhood was really happy, but then things took a dark turn. Annabelle didn't give a lot of details, but she said that one day, her lifeless body was found in a field. Donna and Angie assumed this meant she had been murdered. Except Annabelle didn't clarify how or when she died. She just said that after suffering that tragic fate, she wanted to live in the apartment with Donna and Angie. All she wanted was to feel cared for and loved.

• 16:10Rasha Pecoraro?

  So this is where I start to kind of feel sad for the doll. And I guess this sort of explains why Donna and Angie didn't get rid of her either. After all, these are two future nurses. So of course, they want to help. I mean, caring for people is their calling.

• 16:27Yvette Gentile?

  And that's exactly why they told the medium, of course, Annabelle could stay. Only, this would turn out to be a huge mistake. Especially when they learned that Lou was in serious danger and Annabelle was the reason why.

• 16:51Speaker 03

  When an intruder approaches a home, they expect a camera. What they don't expect...

• 16:55Speaker 04

  Stop. This is SimpliSafe. Police are on the way.

• 16:58Speaker 03

  Using smart AI cameras, live US-based agents help deter intruders in under 30 seconds. Don't just record a break-in, stop it from ever happening. Plans starting around a dollar a day. Right now, get 70% off your new system with professional monitoring at simplisafe.com/truecrime.

• 17:14Speaker 05

  30 seconds response time requires monitoring plan with outdoor protection starting at $49.99 a month. Visit simplisafe.com/licenses for alarm license information.

• 17:23Yvette Gentile?

  In 1970, two roommates named Donna and Angie sought help from a medium hoping to figure out what or who was possessing their Raggedy Ann doll. To their surprise, they learned that it was the spirit of a seven-year-old girl named Annabelle Higgins, and she was hoping the women would take care of her. Fortunately for Annabelle, Donna and Angie were happy to oblige. They decided to keep the doll, even started calling it Annabelle. It was undeniably creepy, but up until this point, Annabelle had been harmless. They figured that she was just a lonely spirit, and there was really nothing to be scared of.

• 18:05Rasha Pecoraro?

  But Angie's boyfriend Lou wasn't entirely convinced. He felt that whatever was inside the doll was a lot more sinister than the spirit of a little girl. And around the time of the séance, some really weird stuff started happening that made the women agree with him. Suddenly, whenever Lou slept over at Donna and Angie's place, he'd wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat, completely panicked from the nightmare he'd just had. It doesn't seem like he even remembered what the dreams were about, only that he couldn't lay his head down at night without waking up in terror. Then, one evening, things escalated.

• 18:48Rasha Pecoraro?

  Lou woke up completely frozen, like he couldn't move his body at all. He tried to look around the room, and that's when Lou felt something rustling by his feet. He glanced down and saw Annabelle. The doll started to glide up his leg entirely on its own. It slid all the way up to his chest before lifting its hands, and then it started strangling him. His heart was absolutely racing. He tried calling Angie's name, but the doll's hands were so tight around his throat that he couldn't even make a sound. And soon, everything faded to black.

• 19:32Rasha Pecoraro?

  The next thing he knew, it was morning. The doll was nowhere to be seen and Angie was sound asleep beside him. Lou got up and bolted to the bathroom. He flipped on the light switch and grabbed at his throat, expecting to see marks. After all, the whole experience felt so real. But there was no evidence that anything had happened last night. Lou stepped out of the bathroom and peered down the hall. And there was the doll in her usual spot on the couch, smiling back at him.

• 20:03Yvette Gentile?

  We don't know if Lou ever told Angie about the dream. But later that day, he convinced her to plan a little road trip so they could get out of the apartment. Hours later, Angie and Lou were looking at some road maps when they heard a rustling sound coming from Donna's room. Lou was afraid that someone had broken into the apartment, so he crept over to check it out. When he opened the door, no one was inside. Everything looked the same as it always did, except Annabelle was lying in the opposite corner of the room. Lou took a few steps toward the doll, but all of a sudden, he had a strong feeling that someone was standing behind him.

• 20:49Yvette Gentile?

  He spun around, but no one was there. He turned back and that's when his chest tightened, like someone had knocked the wind out of him. He literally fell to his knees, gasping for air. Then, out of nowhere, his chest felt like it was on fire. And this time, he wasn't dreaming. He must have screamed so loud that Angie came running. And that's when they saw seven bloody gashes on his chest. They looked like huge claw marks bleeding through his shirt.

• 21:23Rasha Pecoraro?

  Eventually, the chaos settled and Lou caught his breath. I have no idea if he was taken to a doctor or if Angie just treated him at home since she was a nursing student. But I do know that he and Angie decided to cancel the road trip. There was no way they were leaving Donna alone in the apartment with Annabelle. Whatever was inside the doll was now operating outside of it. And Angie was convinced it was something evil. She decided they needed more help. This time, from someone with healing powers. So Donna got ahold of a local priest named Father Hagan. She told him their entire story. From when she first noticed the doll moving on its own, to when something invisible attacked Lou.

• 22:07Rasha Pecoraro?

  And Father Hagan basically said, "This is not in my job description. Deuces, peace out." So he contacted another priest named Father Cook, who was higher up in the church than he was. But Father Cook? Well, he wasn't messing around with it either. But he knew just the person or people who might. A married couple by the name of Ed and Lorraine Warren.

• 22:31Yvette Gentile?

  And the Warrens were no strangers to the occult. They actually inspired characters in the movie about Annabelle and the film franchise The Conjuring. They met when they were teenagers, but at that time, Lorraine already knew she possessed a special gift. She was a trance medium who could communicate with the other side on a deeper, more precise level than a regular medium could. Anyway, Lorraine fueled Ed's interest in the paranormal. And after they got married, Ed began studying demonology, quickly becoming an expert on the myths and legends surrounding demons.

• 23:09Rasha Pecoraro?

  In the 50s, the Warrens founded the New England Society for Psychic Research, which to this day offers insight on all things paranormal. The couple started traveling around New England to help families that all had one thing in common. They were being tormented by hauntings. And usually, these hauntings were carried out by angry human spirits.

• 23:31Yvette Gentile?

  Though every once in a while, someone had a demon on their hands. And demonic hauntings are much more sinister because demons are believed to do the devil's bidding. One of the most famous demonic cases on the Warrens' resume was the iconic Amityville Horror Case. It's a wild case, y'all. And if you haven't already, you gotta go back to the So Supernatural Archives and listen to the episode where Miss Ashley talks about it.

• 24:00Rasha Pecoraro?

  Well, three years before the Warrens caught wind of the haunting in Amityville, Father Cook called them to talk about Annabelle the doll. He told them all about what Donna, Angie, and Lou had been going through. And the Warrens' first thought was, "Human spirits don't possess inanimate objects. Demons do."

• 24:21Yvette Gentile?

  They thought the story of the little girl inside the doll was a trap set by a demon to manipulate the nursing students with the goal of ultimately taking control of at least one of them. So the Warrens went to the apartment as soon as possible. We don't know exactly when they arrived, but it seems it was shortly after Lou was attacked.

• 24:44Rasha Pecoraro?

  Lorraine must have conducted her own séance of sorts because the Warrens quickly learned that the demon was still mostly confined to the doll, at least for now. Its power hadn't grown to its full potential yet, so the demon was only able to escape temporarily, which is how it attacked Lou. But Donna, Angie, and Lou knew that meant it was only a matter of time before things got worse, and they needed it out of their apartment for good before that happened.

• 25:13Yvette Gentile?

  So Lorraine and Ed offered to take the doll with them. They had dealt with monsters like this in the past, and they figured that they could handle this one too. But the Warrens were about to learn that this demon was a lot more powerful than they ever imagined, and it was determined to bring harm everywhere it went.

• 25:39Speaker 03

  When an intruder approaches a home, they expect a camera. What they don't expect...

• 25:43Speaker 04

  Stop! This is SimpliSafe. Police are on the way.

• 25:46Speaker 03

  Using smart AI cameras, live US-based agents help deter intruders in under 30 seconds. Don't just record a break-in, stop it from ever happening. Plans starting around $1 a day. Right now, get 70% off your new system with professional monitoring at simplisafe.com/truecrime. 30 seconds response time requires monitoring plan with outdoor protection starting at $49.99 a month. Visit simplisafe.com/licenses for alarm license information.

• 26:13Yvette Gentile?

  Sometime in late 1970, Ed and Lorraine Warren took Annabelle the doll off Donna and Angie's hands. They had learned that a violent demon possessed the doll, so the paranormal investigators planned to bring it home and add it to their collection.

• 26:29Rasha Pecoraro?

  After leaving Donna and Angie's apartment that day, Ed and Lorraine carefully placed the doll in the backseat of their car and headed back home to Monroe, Connecticut. But during the drive, the Warrens suddenly felt a sense of intense hatred directed at them. And just moments later, their car started swerving all over the road. Ed wasn't able to regain control of the steering wheel. Even the brakes stopped working. The Warrens knew without a doubt the demon was the one doing this. Thinking fast, Ed dug into his bag and grabbed a vial of holy water. He popped off the top, then reached back and doused Annabelle. The car immediately went back to normal,

• 27:11Rasha Pecoraro?

  and Ed and Lorraine breathed a sigh of relief. They managed to make it home safely.

• 27:18Yvette Gentile?

  Now, despite their near-death experience, Ed and Lorraine were committed. They still brought that spooky doll into their house. Ed places it on a chair beside his desk where it stays for a few days. And at first, it seems like the demon has calmed down. Like, maybe it realized it was now under the watch of people who couldn't be fooled. But it wasn't long before it was up to its old tricks.

• 27:47Rasha Pecoraro?

  First, Ed notices the doll levitating over the chair before falling to the floor. And this happens a few times, according to Ed, before they start finding Annabelle in other rooms of the house with no explanation, just like Donna and Angie said. So they start locking the doll in their guest house, but without fail, it always turns back up in the chair next to Ed's desk in the main house. Then one day, the Warrens have a friend over, a Catholic priest named Father Jason Bradford. He was known to perform exorcisms, so he probably consulted with the Warrens a lot. At one point during that visit, Father Bradford picks up the doll and says, "You're just a rag doll. You can't hurt anyone",

• 28:32Rasha Pecoraro?

  before tossing Annabelle back onto the chair.

• 28:36Rasha Pecoraro?

  Now Ed warned Father Bradford to be careful about what he said to the doll, but Father Bradford wasn't buying Annabelle as a threat.

• 28:45Yvette Gentile?

  Which it's safe to say was a big mistake, because the demon inside Annabelle was hell-bent on proving him wrong. While Father Bradford was driving home, he came to a four-way stop. He tapped his brakes as he approached the stop sign. Only, nothing happened. He slammed on the brake pedal, but his car kept flying, right through the intersection. And that's when another car crashed right into him. The accident left Father Bradford hanging on for dear life. Fortunately, he did live to tell the tale. And the first people he mentioned it to were the Warrens.

• 29:24Rasha Pecoraro?

  That's when they realized they had underestimated Annabelle. It was clear that the demon inside of the doll was now strong enough to hurt people, even without being present. They realized that they never should have left it sitting around, and they definitely shouldn't have let anyone else touch it. So to prevent anyone else from getting hurt, the Warrens built a display case for the doll. They even put a sign on it that reads, "Warning: Positively do not open."

• 29:52Yvette Gentile?

  Which was very necessary since the Warrens had also turned part of their home into a museum back in the 50s. They called it the Warren Occult Museum. People could visit and see trinkets and totems from the Warrens' cases. They had all kinds of things on display, like a vampire's coffin and a tombstone that was apparently used as a satanic altar. The museum actually got pretty popular. People from all over the region came to see it. And once Annabelle was added to the collection, things got even more interesting.

• 30:27Rasha Pecoraro?

  One day, a young couple comes into the Warrens Museum. Ed shows them around and when they reach Annabelle's display case, he tells the couple the doll's story. The younger man is skeptical, a non-believer, and laughs at the whole thing. Again, a huge mistake. But he doubles down, saying he wants the doll to scratch him, just like it had with Lou. The guy even starts banging on the glass case, clearly his first time at a museum. Until Ed asks him to stop and tells the couple, "Hey, you've gotta go." Allegedly, the two just hop on their motorcycle and speed off. But rumor has it, the man lost control of the bike a short way into their ride.

• 31:10Rasha Pecoraro?

  Their motorcycle veered off the road and slammed into a tree. The young man died on impact and the woman was rushed to the hospital. Apparently, she was there for a year before she fully recovered. And when she did, she immediately contacted the Warrens and told them what happened. After that, Ed made sure to warn visitors about offending Annabelle before taking them to see her.

• 31:36Yvette Gentile?

  The museum remained open until 2018, when it closed for zoning reasons. But even before then, people had started questioning whether it was all a hoax. And I'm not just talking about Annabelle or the museum. People thought the Warrens themselves were phonies.

• 31:55Rasha Pecoraro?

  This all started in the 2010s when movies like The Conjuring and Annabelle hit theaters. They were based on cases that the Warrens had worked on. So, of course, the movies skyrocketed their fame. And in all these movies, the Warrens were portrayed as totally selfless, wanting to help people no matter how dangerous the situation. The Conjuring movie universe just kept growing and growing. And the couple's books about their work, which they'd written years earlier, suddenly started flying off the shelves. Because of this, they were making good money. Which naturally made people question their intentions. And the more people dug into the Warrens,

• 32:37Rasha Pecoraro?

  the more they started finding ways to debunk some of their biggest cases.

• 32:42Yvette Gentile?

  Honestly, we could probably write an entire episode on the claims made about the Warrens. I mean, most of the accusations are around how they made up a lot of their stories, or how they took inspiration from other works of fiction.

• 32:56Rasha Pecoraro?

  Which brings us back to Annabelle. Because everything we know about the doll comes from Ed and Lorraine. No one has been able to find even a shred of hard evidence that the story is true. And there's one really suspicious detail we uncovered. In 1963, seven years before Donna and Angie supposedly got the doll, an episode of The Twilight Zone aired with a very similar story. In the episode, a woman, named Annabelle, buys a wind-up talking doll for her daughter. And eventually, it kills Annabelle's abusive husband. Once people pieced this together,

• 33:38Rasha Pecoraro?

  they started to think that the Warrens got their inspiration for the story about the doll from The Twilight Zone. And maybe that's why we don't know Donna, Angie, and Lou's last names. Because they never really existed. Then, there's also the matter of the stuff that's inside the Warrens' occult museum. According to a neuroscientist named Stephen Novella, who also happens to be the co-founder of the New England Skeptical Society, the Warrens probably just bought old Halloween decorations and props, and then told people it was stuff they kept from their cases. The way the skeptics see it, selling tickets to their museum was just another way for the Warrens to trick people out of their money.

• 34:24Yvette Gentile?

  But there's at least two sides to every story, right? And for every person out there who thinks the Warrens are a fraud, there's someone else who strongly believes the cases they covered were real. Mainly because in a lot of those cases, the buck doesn't stop with them. There were countless people who came to the Warrens convinced that something otherworldly was wreaking havoc in their home. And a lot of those people said that the Warrens worked really hard to rule out non-paranormal explanations before taking their case. Plus, in 2017, something happened that showed Annabelle the doll may have really been possessed by a demon after all.

• 35:07Yvette Gentile?

  Ed Warren had passed away by that point, but Lorraine was still alive. That year, the Warren's son-in-law, Tony, took Annabelle to a museum in Las Vegas, and he was there to meet, guess who? Zach Bagans, who is the host of the Travel Channel show Ghost Adventures. And if y'all don't know this, our mother, Fana Hodel, was actually on his show. And she went into the Franklin House with him, along with a psychic. And Zach really wanted to see Annabelle the doll.

• 35:38Rasha Pecoraro?

  Tony sat her down on the floor in the middle of the room. And that's when Zach said he felt a strong urge, not only to approach the doll, but to touch it. Even though he knew the Warrens had warned people not to do this, Zach just couldn't stop himself.

• 35:56Yvette Gentile?

  So again, there is that feeling we've been talking about, how the supernatural may have some power over us, which keeps us from, I don't know, wanting to escape it, almost as if it has some sort of chokehold over us.

• 36:13Rasha Pecoraro?

  Zach said the second he laid hands on Annabelle, he was overcome with deep sadness. But then, that sadness turned to rage. Zach claims a dark force was present, and he managed to pull himself away. He believes that what he experienced was caused by all the dark energy within the doll.

• 36:35Yvette Gentile?

  Thank goodness no harm came to Zack after this incident. But this story shows that just because the Warrens didn't have cold, hard evidence for every single one of their cases, doesn't mean they were all lies. As we all know, it's near impossible to prove the paranormal. And those who don't want to believe will always find a reason not to.

• 36:59Rasha Pecoraro?

  So, look, whether you're a believer or not, you have to admit, this stuff is really fascinating. Which is why the Warrens' son-in-law, Tony, has tried to bring new life to the Warrens' collection. And while it's not open to the public on a regular basis, Tony still hosts special events at the museum, giving guests a rare opportunity to experience its eerie collection firsthand. And if you do attend, you're required to sprinkle a little bit of holy water on your hands before you see the doll.

• 37:31Yvette Gentile?

  So what do you think, Russia? Should we see if we can get a private invitation? I mean, if we decide to go, you know that a sprinkle of holy water wouldn't be enough. I would be full-on dousing myself from head to toe, like bathing in that holy water.

• 37:46Rasha Pecoraro?

  Look, I'll go if you go, but I'm staying at least six feet away from Annabelle. And if we do see her, let's make sure to only say nice things. You know, just in case.

• 38:00Yvette Gentile?

  Deal.

• 38:11Rasha Pecoraro?

  This is So Supernatural, an AudioChuck original, produced by Crime House. You can connect with us on Instagram at So Supernatural Pod and on our website, sosupernaturalpodcast.com. Join Yvette and me next Friday for an all-new episode. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve?

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